From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 00:54:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12912 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 00:54:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB15t3a2013347; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB15t1UO023678; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB15siUO023625 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:54:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2iveuum.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.123.214] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18IN3z-0005gF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:54:43 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130204158.00acb758@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "sorry" vs. "excuse me"; behavior and cultures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 00:54:14 -0500 Status: RO Pardon for combining several days' posts... I'm first catching up on digests from about two weeks' combined vacation and holidays with limited mail-reading time. On 27 Nov 2002 19:35:27 -0500, Gail Finke wrote: >In the US, people try not to bump into you in the first place. Unless you're riding mass transit in NYC during rush hour. Then the Men In Suits will barrel over you and not care a whit if it means they make an earlier train or make the transfer to their next train or bus. (I'm not a Man In A Suit, but I've occasionally been guilty of this as well, though I try not to be.) >In England, especially London, I found that people just barrel down >the road bumping into people and saying "sorry," very fast, every >few seconds. Most of the time here, "sorry" seems to be a word used mostly to convey insincere condolences, "excuse me" is occasionally used in conjunction with (non-verbal) body noises, and "pardon" is something you expect the governor to grant a lawbreaking crony. >You're supposed to weave in and out of people's way, and to avoid bumping >other people at all costs even if you have to step off the sidewalk and >onto the street. I see the weaving and such as being more closely related to trying to get from Point A to Point B in the least possible time without running. The street is an extension of the sidewalk if the people on the sidewalk are going to slowly for you. The cars aren't moving that fast, anyway! >On the other hand, I found people in England VERY scrupulous about going up >and down public stairs on the correct sides. In the US you just walk up and >down any old way you like -- of course, as long as you don't bump into >anyone! I found sticking to the "up" side and the "down" side was much more >efficient. For a while, the escalators going down to the PATH platform at the World Trade Center had plaques posted that told you to stand on the right, and walk on the left. Not easily done when the person in front of you has enough packages sticking out to block the entire stair, or if you're wide enough to require most of the stair's width to either stand OR pass... And heavens forbid you should be in the way of one of these businessmen who absolutely MUST get onto the train that's just about to pull out of the station (and so are taking the stairs, WITH briefcase and laptop bag, at a flat run)... On 29 Nov 2002 07:08:42 -0000, Jane Williams wrote: >Exactly. She can see the box, she must know it's causing you >inconvenience: why not put brain in gear? Because her own need to get information is, on her personal utility curve, greater than your need to unload the case of product at its required destination. >This is possible: but surely the sight of someone in a hurry is easy to >recognise? Not when they're coming from behind you. >And to get out of the way of? Not if the streets are crowded, if you have a lot of packages, if the hurrying person is carrying a lot of stuff, or if you have problems locomoting at breakneck speed. I've been on both sides of the coin, here, usually during rush hour in downtown NYC (Wall Street area)... > > and groups of people getting off > > the escalator and stopping while they try to decide where to go next > > don't realize that there are people behind them being delivered > > inexorably into them, One of my pet peeves! >They don't? Are they unbelievably stupid, or what? Is >there something difficult about looking at what's >going on around you and reacting to it? Remember, the other people are coming from BEHIND them, and people don't usually have eyes in the backs of their heads. OTOH, I've always been taught to get CLEAR of the escalator drop-off area before stopping and trying to gain my bearings. Maybe some (very few) of these folk come from areas where the escalators are never crowded???? On 30 Nov 2002 20:22:29 -0500, Anne F. Murphy wrote: >All I see are rude T-shirts about the way we allegedly >speak, for sale in tourist areas... I've never seen anyone local >wearing one! *G* I seem to have missed these... and I work not far from South Street Seaport. >Seriously, last year was so odd... a lot of people stayed away, so it's >nice to see so many visitors have come this year. We're getting back to >normal. As I said, we throw a great party! Definitely last year was odd. (I spent four months working in what was, effectively, a war zone.) >And I don't think I've ever been asked to take someone's picture Probably because they're afraid you'd walk off with the camera (stereotypical view of New Yorkers)... >Ob. Costume Content... dressed in black, as I am in these situations... >*G* "Everyone knows" we wear a lot of black, and that sterotype is >true! Darks, some brights, and very few pastels. Depending on your race and ethnic group, of course. I rarely see transplanted Indians in black, and most Afro-Americans I see tend to prefer to wear bright colors to blacks. The one thing that bugs me about The Ubiquitous Black is that it's damned difficult to find a winter coat in any color *other than* black, or possibly olive or khaki, or *very* occasionally, English Red or Hunter Green. These colors are practically invisible at night under sodium vapor lighting, and most of the time I'm outdoors in winter... it's dark out. *sigh* Otherwise, well, black is flattering, goes with just about any color, and goes well with most variations of coloring and complexion :) >I don't think I know anyone here who owns a pink pantsuit, as mentioned >in other posts... I actually have a linen jacket and a linen skirt in a sort of fuschia color. When the skirt fit properly (it is now both too large and in need of repair), I wore it quite regularly in summertime. I still haven't managed to wear the jacket, though... I don't recall having had pink *pants* since childhood on Long Island, though... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 01:00:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12933 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 01:00:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1612a2013624; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1611UO024677; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB160AUO024534 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:00:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2iveuum.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.123.214] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18IN9F-0001bi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:00:09 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130200307.02fd64f0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Historical doubles (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Re: body type periods ) In-Reply-To: <20021127070900.27315.26257.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 00:59:40 -0500 Status: RO At 21:49:12 11/26/2002 -0800, Chris Laning wrote: >I actually seem to have a historical "double," which has been rather >amusing at times, and I know at least one other person who does too. >(He's a dead ringer for the Elizabethan portrait of Sir Henry Unton.) How interesting! One of my friends, ten years ago, could have been a double for Rogier van der Weyden's "Portrait of a Lady" . >Mine came to light when someone who knows me happened to open a copy >of Diana Scarisbrick's _Ancestral Jewels_ to the portrait of Duchess >Elizabeth, wife of the ninth Duke of Bedford, who was one of Queen >Victoria's bridesmaids (p.127, if anyone has the book). I'm not sure >I can see that much of a resemblance myself My friend said the same thing when we showed her the portrait at last year's winter holiday party... >About 2/3 of the time, their first thought is, "Who is this, your >great-grandmother or something?" (No, no relation as far as >I know.) Apparently it's quite striking. Also with my friend and all who knew her five to ten years ago and see that portrait, there's about a 2/3 recognition rate. I'm wondering if this is the norm for "historical doubles"... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 01:05:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12950 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 01:05:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1662a2013876; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:06:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1661UO025587; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB165uUO025566 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:05:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2iveuum.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.123.214] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18INEp-0005br-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:05:55 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130231049.02fd64f0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Handedness and eating (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 01:05:25 -0500 Status: RO On 28 Nov 2002 09:53:45 -0800, Margo Anderson wrote: >At 11:33 AM 11/28/2002 -0600, Genie wrote: > >Personal idiosyncrasy as I'm a lefty; fork in left hand, knife in right, > >never bother with switching hands that way. > >Me too! Like many left handed children... Hmm... Wonder what it is about us lefties. I seem to be involved in a number of groups in which we are a larger minority than in the general US population (don't know about the global population)... I, too, am a "fork in left, knife in right" eater, and (generally speaking) only set down a cutlery implement to grab a glass or cup to drink from, to pass or receive a bowl/platter/pitcher/other food container, or (in the "boarding-house-reach" model) reach for a communal food container to serve myself (whatever). OTOH, any spreading of jams, butters, etc., and any other cutting I do (food-related or not) I do with the knife in my left hand. >I was grown before I realized that which hand you eat with might be >dictated by something other than dominance. The first I encountered the concept of "fork in the right hand" was, IIRC, in the Cadette Girl Scout Handbook, under the Challenge of Social Responsibility. I don't remember if it was there or elsewhere that I learned the "rules" that you are supposed to speak with both the person on your left and the person on your right during the course of the meal, that you are generally seated *across* the table from your spouse, and that the arrangement is man-woman-man-woman-man-woman-etc. around the table... >I'm still puzzled by the references to eating with the fork tines down, >though. I can see it with foods that you stab, like peices of meat, but >what about loose litle bits like peas? How do you do it? Stab as many peas as you can on the tines, eat them, and go back at it again? Or perhaps we are talking about the position of the tines as the food enters your mouth? Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 01:13:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12961 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 01:13:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB16D2a2014215; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB16D1UO026887; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB16CfUO026825 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:12:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2iveuum.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.123.214] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18INLM-0002SY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:12:40 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130232529.02fd64f0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Barbie costume pattern magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 01:12:11 -0500 Status: RO On 28 Nov 2002 17:54:32 +0000 (GMT), Nicole Kipar wrote: >I just dug it out of my pattern-treasure-trove and it's unfortunately from >1996... >...it is simply called 'Barbie' and is a Burda Special magazine, and is >all in German. I don't know if they still make Burda specials for Barbie, >and I >can't find out unless I nip into a magazine shop over Christmas in germany. I don't recall seeing any such Burda Special in the US in the past ten years or so. FWIW, the monthly and (most of the) special Burda magazines are available worldwide in a number of languages (I've routinely seen German, French, Spanish, Italian, Russian, and English language editions on the magazine racks at Borders). Check GLP (German Language Publications) for more information. BTW, can anyone tell me whatever happened to Neue Mode pattern magazine? Brenda Faith Bell webwarren@earthlink.net Consultant, The Web Warren http://www.webwarren.com/ arachne@webwarren.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 01:15:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12970 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 01:15:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB16F3a2014297; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB16F3UO027291; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB16ERUO027177 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:14:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2iveuum.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.123.214] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18INN4-0003gk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:14:26 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021201002118.02fee488@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Formal manners Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 01:13:57 -0500 Status: RO On 29 Nov 2002 15:26:24 -0500, Diane S. wrote: >...the fanciest dinner I ever went to was an Industrial Arts Teacher's >convention with my husband. They had a sit-down luncheon. There they sat, >500 men and me, and they were all watching me to see when to start and how >to eat it. Talk about being in the hot seat!! Whew! > But that was all a long time ago. Things have not changed all that much in that respect. Almost invariably when Frank and I are at one of the more formal (read: set with more than one fork and more than one spoon) dinners at one of our computer user group conferences, the men at the table (and sometimes the under-50 women) all look to me to figure out which bread plate, coffee cup, or water goblet is theirs, and what utensil to use with what dish... and I'm nowhere nearly as well-versed on this as Diane is! Maybe it's because I'm more confident than they in what goes where and when????? Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 01:57:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13065 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 01:57:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB16w2a2015813; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB16w1UO005135; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB16v4UO004966 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:57:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17481 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2002 06:57:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bookbusiness) (208.166.66.18) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 1 Dec 2002 06:57:03 -0000 From: "Janet Davis" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] This year's calendars Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 01:57:03 -0500 Status: RO I've carried 2 calendars this year (besides the Medieval Year one). One is a desk calendar called "Forgotten English 2003" that has a different word, no longer in common use, for each day. I also have 1 copy left of "Illuminations 2003: A Jewish Calendar", which started in September and goes through August. The pictures are interesting illuminations from a 15th century Hebrew manuscript, but unfortunately there are only a couple that show people wearing clothes. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http:/www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 02:52:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA13200 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 02:52:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB17r1a2017616; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 00:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB17r0UO015197; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 00:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB17qbUO015096 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 00:52:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from p182-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.182] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18IOu3-0005Ex-00; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 20:52:36 +1300 Message-ID: <003101c2990e$9f08c860$b6c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20021130140100.95284.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: NZ and LotR PreRaphaelites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:52:38 +1300 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- > > > Actually, just for the records, I don't _DO_ copies of things from films, > > > that's just not creative in my books. > > As opposed to copying from history;) > Nope, there's a big difference. Even my blue dress is not a 'copy', it is > clearly inspired by, but not a copy. Oh no, but it's all part of the continuum. And I was really meaning copying direct from a pattern say and getting everything exactly the same. Continuum see:) And at the extreme end of recreation is what was made for the World of Wearable Arts recently held here in NZ. Where it's all about doing new things with covering the body. http://www.wearableart.co.nz/ We got to see the highlights last night. Fantastic entries this year. I loved the supreme winner: Persephone's Descent. All articulated armour. The most costumey bit of wearable art I've seen in the contest. Usually it's quite abstract. BTW, just got a chance to see the flaming orange corset, most gorgeous and the colour.. I *love* it:) > > Have you got the book Pre Raphaelite Women by Jan Marsh ( I think)? > > Wonderful, and split into the archetypes of femininity as seen by artists of > > the time: Doves and Mothers, Pale ladies of Deatha.... Bohemian Stunners.... > No, don't have it, butthanks ever so much, I'll keep an eye out for it. It should still be available. I got mine back in 1994 I think, but I saw a spft cover rece > Nicole - about to fix the new ceiling lamp: a 'copy' of those Flemish 17th > century brass ones. *G* heheheh;) Oooh, I wore my cossie today, should get some piccies developed tomorrow. Got a photo taken with the actor who plays Gamling in TTT. michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 06:38:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14102 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 06:38:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Bd5a2023540; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 04:39:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Bd0UO019862; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 04:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB1BcBUO019676 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 04:38:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021201113810.81350.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 11:38:10 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] This year's calendars To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:38:10 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Janet Davis wrote: > > I've carried 2 calendars this year (besides the Medieval Year one). One is > a desk calendar called "Forgotten English 2003" that has a different word, > no longer in common use, for each day. If I am not mistaken that is the calendar (desk calendar) that Past Times carries every year, bought one as a gift one year, quite nifty. Was about 6/7 pounds or so. I can't make up my mind what calendar to buy this year, haven't found anything costumey or extra nice. in the shops :-( I s'pose I have to get a LOTR calendar maybe, or if I'm lucky I'll find one with nekkid artsy b/w photos of gorgeous model men. *G* no costumes, but hey, some bodies just don't need any. Nicole - getting closer to finishing that room every day so that she can finally get back to sewing. ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 08:14:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14335 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:14:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1DF3a2005113; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 06:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1DF2UO015927; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 06:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1DERUO015757 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 06:14:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-105.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.105]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9965119FB18 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:14:19 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3DEA0B27.9090406@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Barbie dolls costumes, was Re: body type periods, References: <20021128075453.61234.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> <200211281234.24597.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060403060209060108070006" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 14:14:15 +0100 Status: RO --------------060403060209060108070006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I bought my first Barbie just a few years ago (I am 26). And I really hope that one day I will have a girl. I like making those little costumes. Here you can see a 16th century dress I made. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/CostumeG/16thBarbie.html My next project wil be a Italian renaissance faerie. Greetings, Deredere Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >On Thursday 28 November 2002 02:54 am, N Kipar wrote: > > >> --- Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Tuesday 26 >> >>November 2002 05:45 pm, seamstrix@juno.com wrote: >> >> >>>>My Barbie had costumes made by me, and went on jungle adventures.....I >>>>was such an odd child. >>>> >>>> >>>My Barbie dolls had some costumes made by me, some of which were >>>historical and others which were not. >>> >>>I see a pattern developing here.... >>> >>> >>Ohhh yes! Say, who else had barbie dolls and made costumes for them? BTW, I >>am praying that my godchild will be a girl, because I have that fantastic >>Burda magazine chockerfull with historic costumes for Barbie dolls and Ken >>men, you should see the medievalesque costumes! (how the middle ages SHOULD >>have been and are in fairy tales). Phuleeeeze!! A girl, a girl, a girl!!! >> >> > >Good luck. :-) > > > > >>Nicole - who made a posh outfit for her Barbie for the occasion of Lady >>Di's and Prince Charles' wedding in 1981 *blech* :-) >> >> > >I was long past the Barbie doll age by the time of that wedding. Sigh. > >Cathy Raymond > >"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." > --Flannery O'Connor > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > --------------060403060209060108070006 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi,

I bought my first Barbie just a few years ago (I am 26).
And I really hope that one day I will have a girl.
I like making those little costumes. Here you can see a 16th century dress I made.
http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/CostumeG/16thBarbie.html
My next project wil be a Italian renaissance faerie.

Greetings,
        Deredere

Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:
On Thursday 28 November 2002 02:54 am, N Kipar wrote:
  
 --- Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com> wrote: > On Tuesday 26

November 2002 05:45 pm, seamstrix@juno.com wrote:
    
My Barbie had costumes made by me, and went on jungle adventures.....I
was such an odd child.
        
My Barbie dolls had some costumes made by me, some of which were
historical and others which were not.

I see a pattern developing here....
      
Ohhh yes! Say, who else had barbie dolls and made costumes for them? BTW, I
am praying that my godchild will be a girl, because I have that fantastic
Burda magazine chockerfull with historic costumes for Barbie dolls and Ken
men, you should see the medievalesque costumes! (how the middle ages SHOULD
have been and are in fairy tales). Phuleeeeze!! A girl, a girl, a girl!!!
    

Good luck.  :-)


  
Nicole - who made a posh outfit for her Barbie for the occasion of Lady
Di's and Prince Charles' wedding in 1981 *blech* :-)
    

I was long past the Barbie doll age by the time of that wedding.  Sigh.  

Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

--------------060403060209060108070006-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 08:20:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14347 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:20:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1DL2a2005305; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 06:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1DL1UO017083; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 06:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB1DKkUO017018 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 06:20:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25399 invoked by uid 0); 1 Dec 2002 13:20:40 -0000 Received: from pd958f647.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.88.246.71) by mail.gmx.net (mp022-rz3) with SMTP; 1 Dec 2002 13:20:40 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Barbie dolls costumes, was Re: body type periods, From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3DEA0B27.9090406@kabelfoon.nl> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 14:20:40 +0100 Status: RO Oh CUUUUUTE!!!!! Cass :))) > I bought my first Barbie just a few years ago (I am 26). > And I really hope that one day I will have a girl. > I like making those little costumes. Here you can see a 16th century > dress I made. > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/CostumeG/16thBarbie.html > My next project wil be a Italian renaissance faerie. > > Greetings, > Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 08:51:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14427 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:51:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Dq3a2006282; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 06:52:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Dq1UO021946; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 06:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7-svc.business.ntl.com (mta7-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1DpcUO021898 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 06:51:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.4.57]) by mta7-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021201135136.TGPX282.mta7-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:51:36 +0000 Subject: Black in Indian Culture/Re: [h-cost] Re: "sorry" vs. "excuse me"; behavior and cultures Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130204158.00acb758@mail.earthlink.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:47:36 +0000 Status: RO > Depending on your race and ethnic group, of course. I rarely see > transplanted Indians in black, Black has a very negative connotation in Indian Culture as in unauspicious and transplanted Indian's seldom wear it outside of a religious context.Finding a sari that is entirely black is rare and hard to locate,although you will sometimes find examples that are brightened up with floral motifs or embroidery.In fact a very dark and intense indigo is preferred for Dewaali night the only time that 'black' appears to be an acceptable colour,so dark that it reads as black. 'Modern' Indians raised outside of India don't seem to have any prejudices about wearing black in their day to day contemporary clothing. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 09:01:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14527 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:01:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1E22a2006566; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 07:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1E21UO023418; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 07:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB1E1YUO023363 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 07:01:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021201140134.40494.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 14:01:34 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deredere's Barbie dolls costumes To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DEA0B27.9090406@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:01:34 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Wow!! I love it, oh I love it, I want a girl god-child, phuleeeeze!! Or I will just have to make costrumes for action man, demmit. *G* Maybe I won't even tell the little worm to be how my Barbies used to truss them up. hehehehehe... Adventure-Barbies-R-Us. It is SO cute, Deredere. Nicole --- Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > Hi, > > I bought my first Barbie just a few years ago (I am 26). > And I really hope that one day I will have a girl. > I like making those little costumes. Here you can see a 16th century > dress I made. > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/CostumeG/16thBarbie.html > My next project wil be a Italian renaissance faerie. > > Greetings, > Deredere > > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > >On Thursday 28 November 2002 02:54 am, N Kipar wrote: > > > > > >> --- Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Tuesday 26 > >> > >>November 2002 05:45 pm, seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > >> > >> > >>>>My Barbie had costumes made by me, and went on jungle adventures.....I > >>>>was such an odd child. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>My Barbie dolls had some costumes made by me, some of which were > >>>historical and others which were not. > >>> > >>>I see a pattern developing here.... > >>> > >>> > >>Ohhh yes! Say, who else had barbie dolls and made costumes for them? BTW, I > >>am praying that my godchild will be a girl, because I have that fantastic > >>Burda magazine chockerfull with historic costumes for Barbie dolls and Ken > >>men, you should see the medievalesque costumes! (how the middle ages SHOULD > >>have been and are in fairy tales). Phuleeeeze!! A girl, a girl, a girl!!! > >> > >> > > > >Good luck. :-) > > > > > > > > > >>Nicole - who made a posh outfit for her Barbie for the occasion of Lady > >>Di's and Prince Charles' wedding in 1981 *blech* :-) > >> > >> > > > >I was long past the Barbie doll age by the time of that wedding. Sigh. > > > >Cathy Raymond > > > >"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." > > --Flannery O'Connor > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 10:20:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14847 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:20:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1FL2a2009608; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1FL0UO007379; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1FKGUO007168 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:20:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6G00FM451A8B@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 10:15:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DEA2741.3060000@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Regency corsets? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 09:14:09 -0600 Status: RO I am way behind in my list reading.. but this caught my eye. I made a corded corset for the regency period not too long ago for a Museum director. It did make a difference in the end appearance of her gown. It provided uplift for her breasts, and smoothed out the shape of her torso. While there might not be a huge amount of information regarding corsetry of this time period, corsets were worn. Some might have been as simple as a linen form with not much re-inforcement in them, but they were still considered stays. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 10:55:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14979 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:55:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Fu2a2010961; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Fu1UO014195; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1FtMUO014029 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:55:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22429 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:03:41 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] This year's calendars In-Reply-To: <20021201113810.81350.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:03:41 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sun, 1 Dec 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote: > maybe, or if I'm lucky I'll find one with nekkid artsy b/w photos of gorgeous > model men. *G* no costumes, but hey, some bodies just don't need any. Consider the Pilobolus calendar, of the ballet troupe of that name. The photos are breathtaking. (The performances are ... wow.) Very little costume content here, except some very odd leotards and quite a few dance g-strings. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 11:48:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15187 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:48:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Gn2a2013044; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Gn1UO024953; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1GmKUO024756 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:48:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22590 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:56:39 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Subject: Re: [h-cost] Color in art (was Tippets) In-Reply-To: <200211290322.28155.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:56:39 -0600 (CST) Status: RO Finally catching up after a heavily booked holiday weekend ... On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > By the way, you said that lady's overgown is actually ultramarine, not > black as I had perceived. I've seen the print in several editions, > (including a good quality print from the British Museum, which > currently hangs on my office wall) and it's black in all of them, so > far as I can tell. Actually, no, I said she is in deep blue -- e.g. midnight or navy or whatever the preferred term :-) -- with an ultramarine-blue underdress. The deep blue does appear as black in several of the prints I have on hand, but it's navy in others, whereas there are other examples in the manuscript of people in black gowns that don't shift to navy in the same editions as the navy April lady, so I figure navy is the correct reading. But that's a rare color, isn't it? I may have to check up on this. > Now, it's also possible that the original is, in fact, ultramarine. > It also seems, to me, that it would be possible that even if the > original was ultramarine that ultramarine might not have been the > original color. I tend to be skeptical about whether the current > color of a fabric, or a piece of art, is highly indicative of the > color that the dyer/artist originally intended after 400 or so > years.... Not an issue to worry about in this case since we're not actually trying to reconcile ultramarine vs. black, which would be a pretty monumental shift, but a good issue to consider overall in viewing manuscripts. Different media pose different color problems for different reasons. Paintings tend to have more sun and air damage compared with manuscripts. Both, however, tend to use certain pigments that degrade on their own. Greens are notoriously fugitive, turning even to yellor or brown or dull reds in some cases. Silver metal tarnishes to black. And so on. I keep a few books on hand for reference on this, including Daniel Thompson's "Materials and Techniques of Medieval Painting," W.G. Constable's "The Painter's Workshop," and A.P. Laurie's "The Painter's Methods and Materials." These are all inexpensive Dover reprints of older books that look outdated, but as far as I know, the data is good, and perhaps reflects a time when this subject was of more interest. For costume study, there's the added issue of paints as accurate representations of dyes -- which they often are not. Ultramarine blue is the usual example, as it's made into a paint from ground lapis lazuli. This was a highly valued color in medieval paintings. (IIRC, it's in Baxendall's "Painting and Experience in Fifteenth Century Italy" where you can find some cites to painter's contracts that specify the amount of lapis blue to be supplied by the patron and used in the painting, as part of the terms.) Lapis cannot be made into a dye, and there is no equivalent medieval dye for lapis color. Woad (chemically the same as indigo) was the blue dye source at this time. Woad/indigo can provide some strong and bright blues, particuarly on silk, but does not fall in the same color range as lapis. The tone difference is one I first noticed as a teenager, when I tried to buy blue shirts to match my blue jeans, but kept coming up with cobalt blues that didn't work with the indigo blue of the jeans when I actually put them next to each other. There are some period references -- Drea has some citations -- to painting on fabric with lapis, but that seems to be reserved for display materials (altarcloths and furnishings and banners and such, and maybe stage costume), not used for "real" clothing. What this means is that all those ultramarine blues that show up on page after page of the Tres Riches Heures and other mss, usually on the most important figures (such as royalty and saints), do not reflect the blues worn at the court -- they're a sign of the Duke's wealth in commissioning these paintings in this book. So we need to adjust our eyes, and minds, to compensate for the color change as we develop our mental picture of the medieval court. For that matter, I believe the wealthy wore relatively little blue in their fine garments, as blue was the cheapest available dye. By contrast, black was expensive and highly valued. It appears frequently in inventories from the 15th century. But it's used comparatively rarely in manuscripts of the same period, because it provides a visual problem on the page. Notice that when the Limbourgs do put someone in black, they often partially hide him or her behind other people or things, or drape other fabrics over the black garments, to reduce the impact of the dead space in the painting. The woman riding sidesaddle in August is an example of the artist's virtuosity in managing to provide highlights and shading to depict drapery -- this is nearly impossible on a black surface, and in this case the artist greyed the base color surface to allow for deeper black shades as well as lighter grey highlights. (Hmm, I'm now wondering if the navy I see in the April lady is actually a different, and less successful, attempt to introduce depth in a black surface. I'll have to look this up and see how she's described by the scholars who have worked directly with the manuscript.) Tapestries give us a much better color sense of available tones, since they're made from dyed materials, not painted. But then you have the issues of color fading and mutation, particularly with sun and air. And the list goes on ... can you tell this is another lecture tape I'm running here? I'll stop now. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 11:52:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15203 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:52:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Gr0a2013198; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Gr0UO025987; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1GqeUO025920 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:52:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m41.in-tch.com [216.166.191.41]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB1GajD24066 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:36:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEA3E6B.66F7F4D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] This year's calendars References: <20021201113810.81350.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 09:52:59 -0700 Status: RO I actually haven't gone calendar-shopping this year, yet. I'll get one for home, and one or two for the office. For office ones, I'm partial to cartoons--Far Side, Dilbert, etc. Re: beefcake calendars....Hey, Nicole, at least here in the US, those *are* referred to as "birthday suits," so that's kinda-sorta costume related . --sue, who has a two-foot-high pile of papers and old bills on the table she needs to clear before she can get back to sewing....ick....sometimes I just purely *hate* house-cleaning! N Kipar wrote: > > --- Janet Davis wrote: > > > I've carried 2 calendars this year (besides the Medieval Year one). One is > > a desk calendar called "Forgotten English 2003" that has a different word, > > no longer in common use, for each day. > > If I am not mistaken that is the calendar (desk calendar) that Past Times > carries every year, bought one as a gift one year, quite nifty. Was about 6/7 > pounds or so. > > I can't make up my mind what calendar to buy this year, haven't found anything > costumey or extra nice. in the shops :-( I s'pose I have to get a LOTR calendar > maybe, or if I'm lucky I'll find one with nekkid artsy b/w photos of gorgeous > model men. *G* no costumes, but hey, some bodies just don't need any. > > Nicole - getting closer to finishing that room every day so that she can > finally get back to sewing. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 11:57:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15222 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:57:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Gw2a2013374; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Gw1UO027032; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1GvDUO026839 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:57:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m41.in-tch.com [216.166.191.41]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB1GfJD25301 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:41:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEA3F7E.636D6808@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "sorry" vs. "excuse me"; behavior andcultures References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130204158.00acb758@mail.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 09:57:34 -0700 Status: RO Ahhh, Brenda.... Some of us come from places where there are NO escalators, crowded or not! I think there was an escalator in a department store here, once, a while ago, but I don't know if it's still there. It was considered quite the novelty--I don't actually recall ever seeing one anywhere else in the state! --Sue in Montana Brenda Bell wrote: > > >They don't? Are they unbelievably stupid, or what? Is > >there something difficult about looking at what's > >going on around you and reacting to it? > > Remember, the other people are coming from BEHIND them, and people don't > usually have eyes in the backs of their heads. OTOH, I've always been > taught to get CLEAR of the escalator drop-off area before stopping and > trying to gain my bearings. Maybe some (very few) of these folk come from > areas where the escalators are never crowded???? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 12:32:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15479 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:32:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1HX2a2015228; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1HX1UO005588; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1HWaUO005485 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:32:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-117-108.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.117.108]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANQ60912; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:32:31 GMT Message-ID: <001901c29960$47ecb300$6c754ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Breaking bread, teeth & ear picking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:21:07 -0000 Status: RO >Someone asked about Dorothy Hartley's books on this list a while back. I'm pretty sure my notions about the mediaeval origins of modern table manners came from her "Food in England", but that was published 40-50 years ago, so theories may have changed since then... I like her books but she tends to assume anything 'country' originates in medieval time, whilst some is true eg agricultural tools are similar, it can be a bit simplistic any way I'll look into Food in England I have a copy Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 12:56:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15623 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:56:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Hv2a2016338; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Hv1UO011070; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1HuEUO010906 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:56:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net14sp161.directcon.net [209.76.47.161]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gB1Htd1r007419; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:55:40 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021201095946.00fdd5c0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Barbie costume pattern magazine In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021129202032.04bf1aa0@mail.frys.com> References: <3DE74CD7.7030103@kabelfoon.nl> <20021129111058.99955.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 09:59:46 -0800 Status: RO At 08:23 PM 11/29/2002 -0800, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: Do you know the Euro -> dollar exchange rate? This is a really handy currency converter: http://www.xe.com/ucc/ Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 13:11:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15681 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:11:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1IC2a2017126; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1IC0UO014381; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1IBTUO014279 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:11:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-117-108.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.117.108]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANQ66196; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:11:31 GMT Message-ID: <02e501c29965$c1503140$6c754ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3DE732C7.9363.82F3A95@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Breastfeedin was Re: teeth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:14:58 -0000 Status: RO >Gender issues could, however, come into play in some cases because of the bias toward "the heir" and to the future heavy workers. While this bias isn't as strong as in some cultures, it was probably sometimes an issue. When you say whilst the bias isn't as strong as in some other cultures what/where are you comparing other cultures to ? The US ? I was talking about past cultures and archaeological evidence >The breastfed babies with dental problems are the ones who use a breast for a pacifier, not "on demand." That wasn't clear to me from your original post which is why I asked for clarification. I've not heard of this phenomena in the UK (doesn't mean it dosen't happen however) >However, the amount of effort the baby expended for "demand" was probably higher. Not completly convinced, my experiance is that you can tell what crys are what, by kids rarely cried because I demand fed & checked regularly (constantly sounds too manic, but pretty constantly in a way I would if checking instrumentation in a plane for instance without any concious check as such) I think a lot of breast feeding & child care problems come from the lack on family with kids contact. You get the same in isolated animal mums too, my horses do much better if there is a experiance mum with a newbie >Some let the baby continuously hold the breast in the mouth without any time away from the breast. Ok that seems like hard work :) No that isn't on demand & no animals don't do that ! > had other work right where the modern snuglie would be.) Snuglie ? >Also, too few of our moms have good support systems for encouraging breastfeeding. Agreed >I have a *very* high rate of successfully breastfed babies (including those with working mothers) who often breastfeed well past a year of age. Is this unusual in the US (I presume you are US ?) It is here > >They can't let the baby cry at night or they upset the neighbors. In > medieval times this would have been considered a "normal" noise and > not one to shush at all costs. > > I'd love to see the evidence for this. Have you read the studies on > cot death & babies in cultures who arn't forced to sleep alone & cry ? > This suggestion, that crying is normal noise, is not consistant with > primate behaviour IMHO, and I've not seen anything supporting such as > view in medieval litrature, please have you any refs ?. I meant refs suggesting babies were left to cry rather than on cot death. >Also, the important literature about this has only been coming out for the past 10-15 years at most. A lot of it started with the "Back to the Back" campaign for prevention of cot death. I've been in pediatrics for more than 20 years and a *lot* has changed in that time. I've been having babies over 16 years & yes I've noticed :) What you should eat what you shouldn't. put them on their front, no back, ok side !!Given it changes with the wind I'm afraid I tend to feel pretty cynical that anyone knows what they are on about. >We *never* used to see breastfed "bottlemouth" in our breastfeeding moms until more recently when there was a switch from "demand" feed to "constant" feed in many of the moms. Just from a sanity point of view constant does not seem to be a good idea :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 13:20:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19757 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:20:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1IL2a2017637; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1IL0UO016704; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1IKtUO016665 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:20:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23037 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:29:14 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur and dagging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:29:14 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > I'd want to look at a survey of the earliest examples of dagging > before coming to any certain conclusions, but my impression has been > that _lined_ dags (whether appearing to be fabric-lined or fur-lined) > are relatively rare, and that the default is done in plain unlined > cloth. ... Everything Heather said in her post makes sense to me. I think someone would have to do a systematic comparison of representations of dags in art as well as in artifacts (with an eye to whether linings may have disintegrated) before getting much of an idea as to what came first. I personally would be interested in seeing the sequence of shapes of dags as well. > My initial hypothesis (to be tested by further research) > would be that dagging arose in the context of the fashion for heavily > fulled woolen fabrics, where you can cut a decorative (and even very > elaborate) edge without the need to finish the raw edges. One interesting visual example of this, though fairly late after dags first start appearing in the artwork, is the famous Arnolfini wedding portrait. Giovanna's bag sleeve has an elaborate mass of dags hanging from the lower edge. They're hard to work out when you look at a reproduction, but in the original it's clear it's a very long strip of fabric (almost certainly wool) cut into a pattern of rows of connected Maltese-style and then the strip accordion-folded into a stack, with one side of the stack of folds attached to the sleeve and the other hanging down. There's no shortage of fur lining in the scene, as the main body of the dress is fur-lined and the underdress has a fur edge showing at the bottom. But the dags are unlined; they seem to be layered into two layers, but with separate edges, which may mean two strips folded against each other as part of the accordion-folding. There's a gold dotty finish to the edges, which may mean edges are stitched around with gold thread. An alternative reading (I forget where I read this) is that the green wool is actually a multilayer sandwich of cloth, green layers on the outside and a gold layer on the inside, and that the green edges are pinked to show the gold. I don't know if I can quite see how that would work, particularly as the gold seems to appear on the protruding points of the pinking, not in the "pits" of the pinking. But the overall point here is that there's no fur on the dags themselves. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of examples -- the Tres Riches Heures is full of them, as we were talking about earlier -- of dagged edges with fur lining. So by the early 1400s, at least, both are being done at about the same class level. > My logical arguments against the "irregular fur edge" hypothesis would > be that furriers obviously had _no_ compunction against cutting and > piecing furs to create "yardage"; and from a practical standpoint, > smoothing off the edge of the fur lining would be far less work than > cutting the outer fabric to match and finishing the much more > elaborate edge. I can see fur-lined dags arising in the context of an > existing concept more easily than I can see them as the origin of the > concept. I can see arguments either way, particularly if the "yardage" comes from the furrier to the clothier with the ragged-edges intact, and there's also no compunction against labor-intensive decoration as a sign of wealth, regardless of practicality. But as you say, that may have developed after the idea of dagged edgings was already established, independent of the shapes of pelts. One key clue other than shape of dags might be whether dags originated with people of such wealth that they were already lining everything with fur, and this was one more step in adding luxury, or if dags appear initially on clothing of a class/wealth level that does not suggest universal fur lining, but at least enough wealth to cover the cost of decoration and the implication that "I'm rich enough to cut up this fabric." If it appeared on the wealthy fur-wearers first, the unfurred version could have been a lesser-monied copy. Chickens, eggs, all that. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 13:59:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19887 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:59:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1J03a2019380; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1J01UO025214; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1IxBUO024968 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:59:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB1JK5Yc029021; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:20:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gB1JJuZ0029015; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:19:56 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Robin Netherton Subject: Re: [h-cost] Color in art (was Tippets) User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200212011419.56014.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB1IxBUO024968 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:19:55 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 01 December 2002 11:56 am, Robin Netherton wrote: > Finally catching up after a heavily booked holiday weekend ... > > On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > Heures> > > > By the way, you said that lady's overgown is actually ultramarine, not > > black as I had perceived. I've seen the print in several editions, > > (including a good quality print from the British Museum, which > > currently hangs on my office wall) and it's black in all of them, so > > far as I can tell. > The deep blue does appear as black in several of the prints I have on > hand, but it's navy in others, whereas there are other examples in the > manuscript of people in black gowns that don't shift to navy in the same > editions as the navy April lady, so I figure navy is the correct reading. > > Actually, no, I said she is in deep blue -- e.g. midnight or navy or > whatever the preferred term :-) -- with an ultramarine-blue underdress. I may have screwed up my color terminology, but I understood you the first time; that is what I meant. :-) It did not occur to me that you were referring to the underdress a ultramarine. Sorry for the confusion. > But that's a rare color, isn't it? I may have to check up on this. To the best of my knowledge, yes, it's rare. I'm sure it wasn't unattainable--indigo and its cousins can achieve an amazing variety of blues from deep to light--but I can't recall any other evidence that navy was used for women's gowns that early... > > Now, it's also possible that the original is, in fact, ultramarine. > > It also seems, to me, that it would be possible that even if the > > original was ultramarine that ultramarine might not have been the > > original color. I tend to be skeptical about whether the current > > color of a fabric, or a piece of art, is highly indicative of the > > color that the dyer/artist originally intended after 400 or so > > years.... > > Not an issue to worry about in this case since we're not actually trying > to reconcile ultramarine vs. black, which would be a pretty monumental > shift, but a good issue to consider overall in viewing manuscripts. > Different media pose different color problems for different reasons. > Paintings tend to have more sun and air damage compared with manuscripts. Naturally. > Both, however, tend to use certain pigments that degrade on their own. > Greens are notoriously fugitive, turning even to yellor or brown or dull > reds in some cases. Silver metal tarnishes to black. And so on. I keep a > few books on hand for reference on this, including Daniel Thompson's > "Materials and Techniques of Medieval Painting," W.G. Constable's "The > Painter's Workshop," and A.P. Laurie's "The Painter's Methods and > Materials." These are all inexpensive Dover reprints of older books that > look outdated, but as far as I know, the data is good, and perhaps > reflects a time when this subject was of more interest. I'll bear that in mind and see if I can track them down, thanks. > For costume study, there's the added issue of paints as accurate > representations of dyes -- which they often are not. Ultramarine blue is > the usual example, as it's made into a paint from ground lapis lazuli. > This was a highly valued color in medieval paintings. (IIRC, it's in > Baxendall's "Painting and Experience in Fifteenth Century Italy" where you > can find some cites to painter's contracts that specify the amount of > lapis blue to be supplied by the patron and used in the painting, as part > of the terms.) Lapis cannot be made into a dye, and there is no equivalent > medieval dye for lapis color. Woad (chemically the same as indigo) was the > blue dye source at this time. Woad/indigo can provide some strong and > bright blues, particuarly on silk, but does not fall in the same color > range as lapis. The tone difference is one I first noticed as a teenager, > when I tried to buy blue shirts to match my blue jeans, but kept coming up > with cobalt blues that didn't work with the indigo blue of the jeans when > I actually put them next to each other. There are some period references > -- Drea has some citations -- to painting on fabric with lapis, but that > seems to be reserved for display materials (altarcloths and furnishings > and banners and such, and maybe stage costume), not used for "real" > clothing. Okay. Thanks. > What this means is that all those ultramarine blues that show up on page > after page of the Tres Riches Heures and other mss, usually on the most > important figures (such as royalty and saints), do not reflect the blues > worn at the court -- they're a sign of the Duke's wealth in commissioning > these paintings in this book. Pity. It's a beautiful color. Oh well, if we each had a dollar for every drean that's been shot down by reality. :-) >So we need to adjust our eyes, and minds, to > compensate for the color change as we develop our mental picture of the > medieval court. > > For that matter, I believe the wealthy wore relatively little blue in > their fine garments, as blue was the cheapest available dye. Was that already the case in the 15th century? It certainly was in the 16th--to the point that it was associated with servants and charity cases. (One reason blue Elizabethan gowns drive me crazy....) >By contrast, > black was expensive and highly valued. It appears frequently in > inventories from the 15th century. Good to know that the inventories confirm the art evidence. Anne Hollander, an art historian, made the point in one of her books that the 15th century is about the first time black shows up as a fashion color, and not as mourning. >But it's used comparatively rarely in > manuscripts of the same period, because it provides a visual problem on > the page. Notice that when the Limbourgs do put someone in black, they > often partially hide him or her behind other people or things, or drape > other fabrics over the black garments, to reduce the impact of the dead > space in the painting. The woman riding sidesaddle in August is an example > of the artist's virtuosity in managing to provide highlights and shading > to depict drapery -- this is nearly impossible on a black surface, and in > this case the artist greyed the base color surface to allow for deeper > black shades as well as lighter grey highlights. It is a masterful job >(Hmm, I'm now wondering > if the navy I see in the April lady is actually a different, and less > successful, attempt to introduce depth in a black surface. I'll have to > look this up and see how she's described by the scholars who have worked > directly with the manuscript.) > Tapestries give us a much better color sense of available tones, since > they're made from dyed materials, not painted. But then you have the > issues of color fading and mutation, particularly with sun and air. Very much so. Also the issue of the extent to which the weaving technique used to produce the tapistry created a "new" color in it's own right. And > the list goes on ... can you tell this is another lecture tape I'm running > here? I'll stop now. Glad I was able to inspire you. :-) I've learned a lot from this exchange. Thank you. -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 14:01:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19914 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:01:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1J21a2019510; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1J21UO025682; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1J1tUO025632 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:01:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB1JMtYc029054; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:22:55 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gB1JMsdK029052; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:22:54 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Robin Netherton Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur and dagging User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200212011422.54465.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB1J1tUO025632 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:22:54 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 01 December 2002 01:29 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Heather Rose Jones wrote: [text cut here] > > One interesting visual example of this, though fairly late after dags > first start appearing in the artwork, is the famous Arnolfini wedding > portrait. Giovanna's bag sleeve has an elaborate mass of dags hanging from > the lower edge. They're hard to work out when you look at a reproduction, > but in the original it's clear it's a very long strip of fabric (almost > certainly wool) cut into a pattern of rows of connected Maltese-style and > then the strip accordion-folded into a stack, with one side of the stack > of folds attached to the sleeve and the other hanging down. There's no > shortage of fur lining in the scene, as the main body of the dress is > fur-lined and the underdress has a fur edge showing at the bottom. But the > dags are unlined; they seem to be layered into two layers, but with > separate edges, which may mean two strips folded against each other as > part of the accordion-folding. There's a gold dotty finish to the edges, > which may mean edges are stitched around with gold thread. Indeed. In the Arnolfini portrait, the fur is very obvious, as it is on some of the houppelandes shown on gentlemen in the Tres Riches Heures plates. Interestingly, the more obvious fur in the Tres Riches Heures are shown as brown. Anyone have an idea what type of fur those might have been? -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 14:13:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19957 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:13:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1JE1a2020132; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1JE0UO028163; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1JDAUO028012 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:13:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021201191309.QIKA29196.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:13:09 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [h-cost] This year's calendars Message-ID: <3DEA5F40.2714.144A54E9@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20021201113810.81350.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 19:13:04 -0000 Status: RO On 1 Dec 2002 at 11:38, N Kipar wrote: > --- Janet Davis wrote: > > > I've carried 2 calendars this year (besides the Medieval Year one). > > One is a desk calendar called "Forgotten English 2003" that has a > > different word, no longer in common use, for each day. > > If I am not mistaken that is the calendar (desk calendar) that Past > Times carries every year, bought one as a gift one year, quite nifty. > Was about 6/7 pounds or so. Now up to 8 pounds, I think: and I'm still probably going for one this year. It tends to have the obscure saints' days, too. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 14:18:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19972 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:18:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1JJ1a2020349; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1JJ0UO029246; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1JIPUO029014 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:18:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <2002120119181905200373i4e>; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:18:19 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021201110540.00a177e0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, From: MaryAnn Jones Cc: In-Reply-To: <002301c296c8$40992880$8a07d1d8@d7k7b6> References: <20021128075501.11246.31359.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] another e-bay offering Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 11:08:08 -0800 Status: RO Another interesting e-bay dress. not my period, but I like it http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1901761815 maryann, who has been spending way too much time on e-bay >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 14:57:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20097 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:57:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Jw2a2022080; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Jw0UO007745; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Jv9UO007572 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:57:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18IaDE-000Kpm-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 19:57:08 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Getting through crowds/politeness References: <20021127174400.3778.51630.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3DE7D20C.5B5D9C2C@rcn.com> In-Reply-To: <3DE7D20C.5B5D9C2C@rcn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:17:10 +0000 Status: RO Catelli wrote >I went to NYC last weekend, and was not run over or into by anyone. > >My difficult getting-through-crowds is usually moving audio/visual >equipment around at a Worldcon >(Science Fiction). > >"Excuse me; pardon me; 'scuse me." repeat as necessary. > >But when the crowd just is Not moving out of my way (I have time >constraints), using the "backup beep" >is the single most effective way of getting through. Why do I think saying, in a very polite mechanical voice "Warning, this vehicle is reversing, warning, this vehicle is reversing" doesn't have the same effect? Jean > >Sure beats "Coming through!" > >Ann in CT >Got all my wools washed, now to get them dried. . . . > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 14:58:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20101 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:58:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Jx1a2022147; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Jx0UO007973; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Jw3UO007723 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout07.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6G00GLLHXXLJ@mtaout07.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 14:53:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DEA6899.6090009@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Thanks Robin... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 13:52:57 -0600 Status: RO For that nifty calendar link... sent it on to my mother-in-law... yay.. gonna get a gift that I can use this year from her... :D -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 14:59:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20105 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:59:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1K00a2022204; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1K00UO008187; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f42.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Jx4UO007966 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:59:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:58:58 -0800 Received: from 65.65.98.120 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 19:58:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.65.98.120] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2002 19:58:58.0876 (UTC) FILETIME=[164657C0:01C29974] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 19:58:58 +0000 Status: RO That's becasue Austin is considered quite different from the rest of Texas. Probably due to the influence of the University of Texas... As for "snipe hunting": my Great Grandfather was from Indiana. He came to Texas and taught here for a time before going home to Indiana to farm (and taking his Central Texas bride home with him). Several of his students took him "Dillo huntin" once. Armadillos are local to Texas and not to the northern states, and they dig burrows which they enter head first. He was told to reach in, grab the tail, and pull it out. Armadillos also have a scent to their urine that's similar to a skunk's. Needless to say, his hunt wasn't what one would consider a success - but the joke was! Mary/Katerine (who may have been in Austin, Texas for 10 years, but still considers herself an Ohioan) >Biggest Egos, Biggest Hair, >Biggest Liars anywhere >Let's sing another stupid Texas song... >[...] >Throw your hats up in the air >We're obnoxious, we don't care! >Let's sing another stupid Texas song. > >There's a band called the Austin Lounge Lizards who spend a lot of time >lampooning certain aspects of texas culture. So even the people who _live_ >there don't always care much for the attitudes we were talking about. And >social class definitely plays into it. My grandmother used to cringe at >the Ross Perot (new money) types. > >[...] > > one of the other new recruits asked where he was from, and > > he said Boston. The other recruit replied, 'We-ll, what suburb of Texas >is > > that?' Exactly the kind of remark that sets ones teeth on edge. > >Of course, he may have been yanking your husband's chain, too. Texan humor >still has a very irish flavor. Despite the fact that many Boston folks >still consider themselves irish and most Texans (and other southerners) >wouldn't. Look up "snipe hunting" for an example of typical texan humor. > >Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 >Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris >Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. >"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 15:14:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20158 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 15:14:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1KF6a2023041; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:15:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1KF4UO011524; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1KEUUO011371 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:14:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021201201429.SAKW10657.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:14:29 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Getting through crowds/politeness Message-ID: <3DEA6DA6.21454.148292A5@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <3DE7D20C.5B5D9C2C@rcn.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 20:14:30 -0000 Status: RO On 1 Dec 2002 at 19:17, Jean Waddie wrote: > >But when the crowd just is Not moving out of my way (I have time > >constraints), using the "backup beep" is the single most effective > >way of getting through. > > Why do I think saying, in a very polite mechanical voice "Warning, > this vehicle is reversing, warning, this vehicle is reversing" doesn't > have the same effect? If said by a very large lorry, it works :) Sadly, saying things politely very rarely gets people's attention, unless you're obviously capable of applying large amounts of force. You know, you can get cars fitted with proximity sensors these days. Usually as parking aids, but now as a means of stopping you from getting too close to the one ahead (apparently it compares distance, your speed, and the amount of water on the road, then takes the power off if needed). Could we fit proximity sensors into clothes? "You are about to be run over: MOVE!" in the ear might work? Especially if combined with an electric shock? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 15:43:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20291 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 15:43:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Ki1a2024362; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Ki0UO018018; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1KhCUO017818 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:43:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m252.in-tch.com [216.166.191.252]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB1KRHD09893 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:27:18 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEA7472.8FBA1770@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century lace cap back References: <002e01c28d81$d95948c0$b11823d9@dan> <3DE15BC0.AE950458@in-tch.com> <001001c294d4$bc3babc0$360524d9@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 13:43:30 -0700 Status: RO Hi, Stevie. I have a number of friends here who wanted me to tell you that "We hate her." Because of the Assembly Rooms and all....It sounds absolutely wonderful, and hope you take (and post) lots of pictures for those of us who are too far away in time and place to attend! I think you'll find that the degree of chest-constriction varies widely over the fashionable years , and sometimes, even when things *may* have been more restrictive than you can tolerate, you can still achieve a similar look/style with some simple adaptations. I have some 10-yd pcs in my wool stash, but they're causing me *great* pain, because they want to be both fitted gowns AND flemish market gowns. Aaaarrrrggggghhhh!!! If I tried to do both, I'd have to cross my fingers *and* toes (difficult at best when they're short like mine are ), sacrifice numerous twinkies to the Great Costume Gawd, AND still skimp on one or both skirts a tidge. --Sue Stevie Gamble wrote: > > Sue wrote: > > > Where in Bath is the ball going to be? What are you planning for the > > rest of your outfit? > > Well, you are more familiar with Bath than I am, but I gather that it > will be in the Assembly Rooms, and at the moment I am intending a late > 18th century highwaisted gown in silver grey dupioni, with a shorter > over dress in gold metallic silk gauze. That way I can get to use some > of the braid/type decorations in gold and silver plated wire which I > have been making for what seems like forever. It was intended for an > Elizabethan, but until I get it together sufficiently to make the > 'barrel corset' which people have kindly suggested that project is > somewhat on the backburner. Though I have just bankrupted myself > buying a Victorian? table cover in cut velvet > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2222&item=92312 > 5757&rd=1 > > and another velvet > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2220&item=92101 > 2275&rd=1 > > because, dammit, they should look pretty good together. Maybe an > earlier Renaissance period gown with a high waist? > > Of course, I've been looking at some of the medieval gowns mentioned > here, because it occurs to me that the degree of support offered by > those gowns is just as good as modern corsetry, and probably less > restrictive around the ribcage, what with wonderelastic and so forth. > Alas, nothing in my wool stash is more than 5 metres or so, and whilst > I got large amounts of some marvellous cotton velvets in Liberty's > sale this summer, where I got the James Hare handloomed dupioni, they > are not right. And dupioni is really wrong for much before late 18th. > My name is Stevie and I'm a fabricaholic... > What's even worse is that I have a 16 year old daughter who actually > expects me to use some of it making clothes for her! Often at three > hours notice:-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 16:14:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20417 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:14:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1L62a2025549; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:06:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1L61UO023132; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1L5cUO023039 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:05:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m252.in-tch.com [216.166.191.252]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB1KniD18397 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:49:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEA79B4.89513ACB@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 14:05:56 -0700 Status: RO Perhaps it had more to do with me being in cities, mostly, and not exactly near student areas (universities, nightclubs, whatever), with the exception of going to Trinity in Dublin. I live in an area where the kind of formality of dress I saw all over London, for instance, would immediately brand you as a non-native/city-dweller, or perhaps as an Important Lawyer. One of those instant-recognition things, I guess. --sue Kate M Bunting wrote: > > Sue wrote: > > On my recent trip to the UK and Ireland, literally the only time I ever saw a tee >shirt was...on an American. > > That's odd, because they are very commonly worn here. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 18:28:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20791 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:28:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1NJ7a2002858; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:19:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1NJ0UO025745; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1NIcUO025574 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:18:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m37.in-tch.com [216.166.191.37]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB1N2hD28040 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:02:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEA98DE.6057F497@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Color in art (was Tippets) References: <200212011419.56014.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 16:18:54 -0700 Status: RO In what other ways could the colors in illustrations such as we've been talking about be non-reflective of actual clothing/textile practices ?(disregarding, for the moment, copies degraded by time or exposure, or bad reprints ....my own copy of the Berry book of hours is one of the stinky ones! ;-P) I'm wondering, for instance, about the reds. Now, we've been experimenting with natural dyes lately (it seems to be the newest "in thing" in my local SCA group), and have gotten some wonderful reds and rusts and such with various period-appropriate dyes and mordants and fibers, but not that eye-popping cherry-red. Darn....memory just kicked in. I have seen one extant textile (a cut-and-voided velvet) with a red that cherry-colored. Later time period, though (16th c.). Also, despite what seems like an infinite variety of yellows and greens, I don't see many in pictures...were they painted less often because they were more common (and hence, less desirable?)? or because it wasn't as easy to achieve those colors in certain media? It also occurs to me, as I'm typing this, that when dealing with later time periods (Elizabethan, for instance), I've also seen a discrepancy between what is depicted and what is worn. The listings of the garments in Elizabeth's wardrobe, for instance, have a really wide variety of colors ("tawny" is the one that springs to mind, immediately), most of which I've never seen in any of the portraits, especially the really late stuff. Just me, mumbling to my self (and the world) electronically..... --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 18:39:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20832 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:39:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1NR2a2003280; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1NR1UO027543; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB1NQ2UO027295 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:26:02 -0700 (MST) X-eGroups-Return: saragrace@earthlink.net Received: from [66.218.67.142] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2002 23:25:57 -0000 From: "Saragrace Thornton Knauf" To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.221.49.58 Subject: [h-cost] Anyone know Coryn Welgle? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 23:25:55 -0000 Status: RO I have a couple of questions about some statements made in the historic costume notes of Period Pattern #46 authored by Coryn Welgle. Have any of you ever run into this person? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 18:46:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20855 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:46:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Nb2a2003791; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Nb0UO029781; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1NarUO029730 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:36:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m37.in-tch.com [216.166.191.37]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB1NKwD02652 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:20:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEA9D25.5BBE38F7@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ending blackwork (WAS: me too Linda) References: <20021113191326.45908.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 16:37:09 -0700 Status: RO I've found that my methods of ending monochrome embroidery have depended on the application, and on the fiber I was doing the embroidery with. I did one shift, many years ago, with a geometric pattern embroidered on the collar and cuffs. The thread was metallic, and raveled fiercely at the first bit of inattention from me. I finished those ends by burying them inside the cuff or collar itself (they were two layers of fabric, plus a bit of interfacing). I learned this method for burying threads when I used to hand-quilt stuff. Most of the time, I'm working with a single strand of embroidery floss on fabric that's a tidge to fine to do little hidden running stitches on--my stitches only go over 2 or 3 threads as it is. So I mostly use the "whip" method, which Chris described below. With only a single strand, the whipped area is almost invisible...it's more easily "felt" in fact, than seen, straight-on. The only time it's been more obvious (and more of a pain) was on one coif in which I was using 2 strands of floss. Not only was the "ridge" more visible, it was also a lot more devious in un-whipping itself. Very, very annoying. I ended up doing a lot of repair work on the back side of the coif, and then very, very carefully "sealing" the whipped lines with this tiny, narrow application of frey check (which I "painted on" using the pointed end of a straight pin). --sue Chris Laning wrote: > > At 11:13 AM -0800 11/13/02, Cassandra wrote: > > How do you end the thread on blackwork doing the > >reversable Holbien stitch? On counted cross you can > >run the thread back under the row but that's not > >reversable, just tidy. Ditto for other crewel > >embroidery where the back doesn't show. Blackwork > >fiends please reply. > > I'm probably not "fiendish" enough, since I haven't tried this > myself, but here's what I've watched people do. > > Some people do indeed just pick an area where there's a continuous > line of stitching on the back, and whip over and over that line with > their thread for a ways, then tuck it underneath and snip it off. > This does mean that a few threads on the "wrong" side will look > suspiciously double-thick, but often they're not too obvious unless > someone is looking closely. > > The method I've been told the "real" experts use is this: bring the > thread through to the "wrong" side, then push aside the thread of the > next stitch on that side, and take three or four little teensy > running stitches with your working thread directly _underneath_ the > already existing stitch. Then clip off the end and let the stitch you > pushed aside fall back into place. Supposedly this is enough to hold > it firm, and with practice I'm told it's next to undetectable. > > (I do feel compelled to add, BTW, that according to the experts I > hear talking, not nearly as much of the blackwork done in the 16th > century actually _was_ reversible as we used to think. A lot of it > could have a less neat and tidy back because it was lined with > something else.) > > Hope this helps -- > -- > _________________________________________________________ > O Chris Laning > | > + Davis, California > _________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 18:51:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20874 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:51:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Nn2a2004318; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Nn1UO002793; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB1Nm1UO002418 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m37.in-tch.com [216.166.191.37]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB1NW6D05693 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:32:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEA9FBE.97355047@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone know Coryn Welgle? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 16:48:14 -0700 Status: RO Have you tried contacting the current printer/distributor? --sue Saragrace Thornton Knauf wrote: > > I have a couple of questions about some statements made in the > historic costume notes of Period Pattern #46 authored by Coryn > Welgle. Have any of you ever run into this person? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 19:22:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20963 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:22:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB20K2a2006012; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB20K1UO010231; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB20IvUO009992 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:18:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 12264 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2002 00:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bookbusiness) (208.166.66.119) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 2 Dec 2002 00:18:56 -0000 From: "Janet Davis" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Anyone know Coryn Welgle? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3DEA9FBE.97355047@in-tch.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:18:58 -0500 Status: RO I know the woman who has done most of those patterns - unfortunately, I only see her at Pennsic. She lives in Virginia, but that's not much help. If I can find last year's Pennsic merchant guide, I can look up her contact information, as she merchants every year, I think under the name "Medieval Miscellania" (tentmakers). Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http:/www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 20:01:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21178 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:01:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB20x5a2007934; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB20x1UO019096; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB20wIUO018893 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:58:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip248.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.248]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB20wCa01146 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:58:12 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, was: Breastfeedin was Re: teeth Message-ID: <3DEA3F58.6537.1418C58C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <02e501c29965$c1503140$6c754ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 16:56:56 -0800 Status: RO I wrote: > >Gender issues could, however, come into > play in some cases because of the bias toward "the heir" and to the > future heavy workers. While this bias isn't as strong as in some > cultures, it was probably sometimes an issue. Melanie wrote: > When you say whilst the bias isn't as strong as in some other cultures > what/where are you comparing other cultures to ? The US ? I was > talking about past cultures and archaeological evidence I was talking about cultural biases in places like China and India who continue to have *very* strong anti-female child biases. > >Some let the baby continuously hold the breast in the mouth > without any time away from the breast. > > Ok that seems like hard work :) No that isn't on demand & no animals > don't do that ! But that's what some of the mom's, especially those with babies who have "breastfed bottlemouth" do. And they are usually exhausted but too pressured from some of the more militant La Leche Leaguers not to quit no matter what. (Fortunately, as I said, there are some which are far more reasonable about this issue.) > Snuglie ? Like a backpack, but slung in the front between the breasts. > >I have a *very* high rate of > successfully breastfed babies (including those with working mothers) > who often breastfeed well past a year of age. > > Is this unusual in the US (I presume you are US ?) It is here Most US moms don't breastfed past 6 weeks of age whether or not they work. It is greatly improved from the past when it was really rare to breastfeed (like in the 1970s). But the major problem seems to be lack of family or organizational support (and that includes overly militant "support" which is worse than none at all sometimes.) > > >They can't let the baby cry at night or they upset the neighbors. > > >In > > medieval times this would have been considered a "normal" noise and > > not one to shush at all costs. > > > > I'd love to see the evidence for this. Have you read the studies on > > cot death & babies in cultures who arn't forced to sleep alone & cry > > ? This suggestion, that crying is normal noise, is not consistant > > with primate behaviour IMHO, and I've not seen anything supporting > > such as view in medieval litrature, please have you any refs ?. > > I meant refs suggesting babies were left to cry rather than on cot > death. There is a big difference between "left to cry" and a baby who is given appropriate attention without it going overboard. There is a growing number of "over attentive" moms. If you want to understand more about babies and appropriate crying, I would suggest reading some of T. Berry Brazelton's work, especially _The Self Calmed Baby_. (I don't need to go look that one up. I've memorized it. I've seen his research and heard him speak a number of times. He's an expert on infant behavior and development.) > >Also, the important literature about this has only been coming out > for the past 10-15 years at most. A lot of it started with the "Back > to the Back" campaign for prevention of cot death. I've been in > pediatrics for more than 20 years and a *lot* has changed in that > time. > > I've been having babies over 16 years & yes I've noticed :) What you > should eat what you shouldn't. put them on their front, no back, ok > side !!Given it changes with the wind I'm afraid I tend to feel pretty > cynical that anyone knows what they are on about. Up until recently, the "norm" was to have babies on their tummies. The rationale (which started something like 40 years ago and caught on after a big pediatric meeting held in the Netherlands) was that babies on their tummies could get their heads out of the vomit. Unfortunately, that was never tested until Warren Guntheroth of the University of Washington (Seattle. Wonderful man. He's a cardiologist I did my medical school rotations with) did the research with a co- worker. (He's also the one who studied and wrote out all the EKG stuff for infants and children. Before him, no one knew *what* normal EKG readings were for them, since they are often *quite* different from adults when normal. What would be a major heart problem in an adult is just the result of small heart in kids.) Anyway, they found that infants were *more* likely to drown in their own vomit on their abdomens or sides. (If on their backs they swallow it back down or turn their head to the side.) That let practitioners feel more comfortable with putting babies on their backs. You will still run into disbelieving nurses and out-of-step docs who still say "oh, we have to put them on their sides or they'll choke on their vomit." What they have found in the many years of SIDS (cot death) research is that infants placed on their abdomens often do a lot of rebreathing of their own carbon dioxide. This causes a reflex which shuts down their breathing. (Similar to the diving reflex which protects against drowning.) It's not *completely* studied and they are still trying to figure out why there are still some children who die of SIDS even with the B-t-B campaign. What you've been seeing which is so confusing is the slow understanding of how dangerous it is to have a baby on their abdomen or side (especially if there are things in the bed like soft mattresses, thick blankets/quilts, baby bumpers, pillows, stuffed animals, etc.) in the bed with them. (Babies do best on a firm mattress with a sleeper and perhaps one blanket wrapped around their torso without anything else in the bed with them.) Also, there is evidence of problems with co-sleeping. That's because of the parent's bodies (and no, they won't necessarily know that they've rolled over onto the infant before it's too late. Lots of evidence of that starting with the dead infant in the Solomon case from the Bible) and the other things in the parent's bed. There's also evidence that overheating from the parent's bodies is at least partially to blame. A crib or cot beside the bed (if not too small so that the infant puts its face against a side of the bed) seems to have the *least* SIDS. (That may be one of the reasons that SIDS is more common in the winter. People are so afraid of their infant getting cold that they overdress them. Poor little mites. I've seen more than my share of sweaty, red faced babies over the years.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 20:01:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21182 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:01:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB20xYa2007959; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:59:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB20xYUO019278; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:59:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB20wKUO018911 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:58:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip248.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.248]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB20wFa01151 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:58:15 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur and dagging Message-ID: <3DEA3F59.23763.1418C7CB@localhost> Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 16:56:57 -0800 Status: RO > One interesting visual example of this, though fairly late after dags > first start appearing in the artwork, is the famous Arnolfini wedding > portrait. Giovanna's bag sleeve has an elaborate mass of dags hanging > from the lower edge. They're hard to work out when you look at a > reproduction, but in the original it's clear it's a very long strip of > fabric (almost certainly wool) cut into a pattern of rows of connected > Maltese-style and then the strip accordion-folded into a stack, with > one side of the stack of folds attached to the sleeve and the other > hanging down. There's no shortage of fur lining in the scene, as the > main body of the dress is fur-lined and the underdress has a fur edge > showing at the bottom. But the dags are unlined; they seem to be > layered into two layers, but with separate edges, which may mean two > strips folded against each other as part of the accordion-folding. > There's a gold dotty finish to the edges, which may mean edges are > stitched around with gold thread. An alternative reading (I forget > where I read this) is that the green wool is actually a multilayer > sandwich of cloth, green layers on the outside and a gold layer on the > inside, and that the green edges are pinked to show the gold. I don't > know if I can quite see how that would work, particularly as the gold > seems to appear on the protruding points of the pinking, not in the > "pits" of the pinking. They've found some drawings from the time period which show the kind of dagging found on the Arnofini painting. I believe it was in Margaret Scott's book on Gothic period clothing. (In the same series as the Jacqueline Herald It Renn book.) Almost 20 years ago I decided to make this dress. I found some of the best reproductions I could find of the it and worked on all sorts of ways of getting that look. I can't even remember all the many ways I tried (other than the honey-comb smocking which I tried before I got a better reproduction.) I finally settled on little circles of satin which were carefully satin stitched around the edges and then fastened in the middle with each close enough to the next one that they acted like petals. Came out pretty, but I was absolutely chagrinned when I found that drawing from the 15th C showing how it was done. It would have saved me a lot of work (and something like a gross of little satin-stitched circles of two layers of satin.) (Still looked cool and I still wear the dress on occasion, even if it is with a totally different underdress. I don't have a 19" waist anymore so the underdress will *never* fit again.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 21:25:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21539 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:25:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB22P6a2012366; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:25:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB22P1UO010195; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB22NwUO009917 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:23:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.107] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A3221BD8014C; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 21:19:14 -0500 Message-ID: <005601c299aa$3f3abfa0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <3DE5DB04.10556.2F0348E@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: teeth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:26:39 -0500 Status: RO In my family, this is a genetic abnormality. In the last 4 generations at least one in four children do not have enamel on their teeth, and this occurs across through out the extended family line. Nutrition does not seem to make the difference. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: teeth > > > Kat wrote; [snip] > > > Roman teeth only showed a 7% rate of > > >cavities although they had illness and inadequate diet problems as > > >well (hypoplastic teeth) > Kate responded: > > What are hypoplastic teeth? > > This all goes along with what Robin said about teeth being > > *relatively* good until the diet changed so that cavities become much > > more frequent. > > These are teeth that do not develop properly due to inadequate diet > or illness from prenatal through childhood until time of eruption. > Disruption in the diet or illness anywhere during that time can lead > to inadequate enamel being laid down, thus leading to hypoplasia. > > And yes, it goes along with what Robin was saying. But then she'd > done a fair amount of study about dental health rather than just > looking at single cases. (Population studies much more accurately > reflect what goes on in a group of people than single sensational > cases. Frankly, you can find those same kinds of sensational cases > even today when dental health has many more advantages.) > > > >Then you add to that things like constant bottles with juice or milk > > >or constant breastfeeding (which a medieval mom wouldn't have done > > >like we do now), and you have even *more* cavities. > > > > I know nothing about babies, but are you saying that breastfeeding > > causes tooth decay? And wouldn't it have been *more* common in > > mediaeval times than today? > > The medieval mom had a different pattern of breastfeeding than the > modern mom. The medieval mom would not have used it as a pacifier > which is essentially why the "breast fed bottlemouth" of today has > it. The medieval mom has a breastfeeding pattern more similar to the > current breastfeeding mom's whose kids are merely fed, then set down, > and who rarely get "breastfed bottlemouth." > > I had been taught throughout medical school and my pediatric > residency that you couldn't get "bottlemouth" from breastfeeding. > However, in the past 20 years there has been an increase in it due to > a change in *how* moms are breastfeeding. They *think* it is more > natural, but yet it doesn't take into consideration the different > attitude that mothers of the past had. Now it tends to be "don't let > the baby cry at any cost, even if it means stopping your current > activity." A medieval mom couldn't do that. She had to get things > done no matter what. And chances are that they didn't notice the > "noise" that is currently one of the big problems with many moms. > They can't let the baby cry at night or they upset the neighbors. In > medieval times this would have been considered a "normal" noise and > not one to shush at all costs. > > Kat Russell > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 21:42:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21621 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:42:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB22h3a2013522; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB22h1UO014537; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB22gbUO014470 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB22bo0j002069; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:37:51 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Corrie Weigle" , Subject: RE: [h-cost] Anyone know Coryn Welgle? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:45:34 -0800 Status: RO Mistress Kathea von Linse is her SCA name. Mundane name is Corrie Weigle. She used to be "Medieval Miscellania" before some kind of bust up. If she is still at the address I have for her, I'll forward this to her. Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Saragrace Thornton Knauf Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 3:26 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Anyone know Coryn Welgle? I have a couple of questions about some statements made in the historic costume notes of Period Pattern #46 authored by Coryn Welgle. Have any of you ever run into this person? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 21:43:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21632 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:43:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB22i2a2013569; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB22i1UO014809; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB22h2UO014525 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a220.in-tch.com [66.62.107.20]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB22R8D22788 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:27:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEAC8C6.5B84D58A@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: history on yer doorstep, was Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures References: <20021127214720.17816.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 19:43:18 -0700 Status: RO I don't *think* so, although a lot of the other historical recreation groups in the US are more locality-tied. I joined, at least in part, because it's just the only one around here. If I lived elsewhere, and had other options, I'd probably be busily pursuing them, too! The SCA's biggest advantage (from the perspective of someone from the inside) has got to be its flexibility....it makes us a lot more inclusive and accessible than some other groups that have more stringent requirements for participation. And since the scope of our "period" is so broadly based, it helps to serve as a great umbrella organization for people of all different interests, whether that be narrowly defined, or broadly defined. Like me, for instance. I'm pretty much interested in clothing/textiles/needlework from almost any time period. Of course, I sometimes think that that flexibility and broadness is also our greatest weakness/challenge. And there are groups in Europe and elsewhere in the world. It's not solely a US thing, even if it did start here. --Sue N Kipar wrote: > > Say, is this why it seems that people tend mostly to join the huge society, the > SCA, and not found smaller local ones that specialise in certain periods > (before the 18th century) because you have no locality to tie it to? Just a > thought, I'm ever curious. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 22:00:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21681 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:00:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2313a2014585; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2312UO018943; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2304UO018664 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.21] (as3-4-35.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.21]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gB2302028170 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:00:03 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3DEA98DE.6057F497@in-tch.com> References: <200212011419.56014.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3DEA98DE.6057F497@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Color in art (was Tippets) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:33:29 -0800 Status: RO At 4:18 PM -0700 12/1/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: >In what other ways could the colors in illustrations such as we've been >talking about be non-reflective of actual clothing/textile practices >?(disregarding, for the moment, copies degraded by time or exposure, or >bad reprints ....my own copy of the Berry book of hours is one of the >stinky ones! ;-P) Gilded highlights in manuscripts is another good example. Keeping in mind the previous thread (or was that on a different mailing list?) about gold applied to fabric, gold designs on clothing in manuscript art are far more common than plausible in real life, and the use of metallic gold to show clothing highlights is clearly purely an artistic convention. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 22:23:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21738 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:23:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB23E1a2015431; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB23E0mA022498; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20202.mail.yahoo.com (web20202.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB23DGmA022325 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:13:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021202031315.61016.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:13:15 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Website Update Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:13:15 +1100 (EST) Status: RO Greetings all, Phew! it's finally done. My permanent garb galleries are online, and on a free web server with no bandwith limitations too I might add! Those of you sick and tired of "this member has exceeded bandwidth limits" will be happy to hear that - I know I was! :) So, all my stuff is up - from the first tremulous pattern drafting experience to my latest court gown, but some of you will have already seen most of these gowns. I will add to the galleries as I finish an item. Questions and feedback welcome. :) Venetian garb: Garb of Other Lands: Each can be accessed from the other, and both are linked to on my index page, as usual. I need coffee! :) Bella http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 22:49:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21841 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:49:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB23e1a2016755; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB23e0mA028922; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from CatholicExchange.com (mail.catholicexchange.com [216.234.226.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB23d2mA028712 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from 6pmdy01 ([209.94.162.44]) by CatholicExchange.com ; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 21:39:03 -0600 From: "Sarah Krans" To: Message-ID: <000c01c299b4$47601f40$2ca25ed1@6pmdy01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-reply-to: <20021202031315.61016.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Brief stays question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:38:26 -0600 Status: RO I have a really quick question that I just need reassurance on :) I am finishing a set of 18th Century stays and was wondering if I might also be able to use this same set for Elizabethan? While I don't mind making stays/corsets, I would rather just not have too many sets - and to get started on my Elizabethan gown! :) Thanks! Sarah Sleep well. . .to eat little, work hard, and have many concerns on our mind and then refuse to let our body sleep is to try to get a great deal of work out of a poor, emaciated horse without letting him graze. - de Sales _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 22:50:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21850 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:50:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB23f1a2016838; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB23f1mA029215; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB23ermA029161 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:40:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25129 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:49:14 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Color in art (was Tippets) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:49:14 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sun, 1 Dec 2002, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > At 4:18 PM -0700 12/1/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >In what other ways could the colors in illustrations such as we've been > >talking about be non-reflective of actual clothing/textile practices > >?(disregarding, for the moment, copies degraded by time or exposure, or > >bad reprints ....my own copy of the Berry book of hours is one of the > >stinky ones! ;-P) > > Gilded highlights in manuscripts is another good example. Keeping in > mind the previous thread (or was that on a different mailing list?) > about gold applied to fabric, gold designs on clothing in manuscript > art are far more common than plausible in real life, and the use of > metallic gold to show clothing highlights is clearly purely an > artistic convention. Oh yes. I have heard costumers discuss at length how to reproduce the "gold embroidery" on some costume, when the gold was simply the illuminator's default color for highlights or decoration. Artists' contracts sometimes specified quantity and position of gold use as well as lapis use, which also suggests a reason for the abundance of gold. You can see examples of the gold clothing highlights Heather is referring to in the Tres Riches Heures, but only in the pages done by Jean Columbe. The TRH was done in two widely separated time segments. The Limbourg brothers began it in the 14-teens. All three of them died by 1416, mid-book. Jean Columbe picked up the work between 1485-89. This makes costume analysis a little dicey, as you have to be able to distinguish the artists' styles to date the images. For that matter, some of the pages are a combination of both the Limbourgs and Columbe. Fortunately the chief secular scenes (the calendar) are mostly Limbourg; you can see Columbe's touch (and his preference for gold wash highlighting) in November, as well as the bottom portion of the September page. Even when the gold is used as a pattern design, that doesn't mean it's reliable. For that matter, patterns in general are not always reliable -- meaning the style of the pattern, the scale of the pattern, or the presence/location of the pattern. This varies from one school to another, and one artist to another. Some artists were pretty good about reproducing textile patterns on images of clothing or textile furnishings, but others used the same repertoire of patterns regardless of whether they were showing diapered backgrounds, floor tiling, fabric, or whatnot. Also, patterns may not be to the same scale as they would be in real clothing -- enlarged or shrunk to fill the visual space on the page nicely, not to imitate the proportion of the fabric on the person's body. As a rule, painters (e.g. 15th c. and later) tended to be better about pattern than manuscript artists, for reasons relating to the nature of their commiwsions and subject matter. I have a friend who has done quite a few papers analyzing the textile patterns in Van Eyck's paintings, where the same group of rugs and fabrics keep showing up, artfully displayed as backgrounds and furnishings in various scenes. These were apparently painted from textiles he had in his possession. Choice of colors as well as patterns can be symbolic, of course, but specific meanings of colors or patterns can vary from one period or artist to another. Stripes might designate a prostitute, but not always, for instance. Other embellishments might be there to announce "foreigner" or "saint." The Virgin is usually in a blue mantle over a loose dress (often in rose); I found it jarring when I came upon a Quentin Massys painting in Brussels that reversed this combination! There's research on the color symbolism in specific paintings, schools, and styles buried throughout the art history literature, but lacking the time and access to dig them up each time I hit a curious image, I usually find the best thing is to bone up on iconography, identify the individuals in each image, and compare the painting at hand with other images by the same artist or in the same school, to see if I can identify consistent trends. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 1 23:14:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21960 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 23:14:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB24C2a2018272; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB24C1mA006193; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (IDENT:root@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB24BPmA006053 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:11:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.124.3.161] (p01.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.161]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32009 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:06:00 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: NZ and LotR PreRaphaelites From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003101c2990e$9f08c860$b6c0adcb@michaela> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 20:48:19 -0700 Status: RO on 12/1/02 12:52 AM, michaela at thebruce@ihug.co.nz wrote: > > Oh no, but it's all part of the continuum. And I was really meaning copying > direct from a pattern say and getting everything exactly the same. > Continuum see:) And at the extreme end of recreation is what was made for > the World of Wearable Arts recently held here in NZ. Where it's all about > doing new things with covering the body. > http://www.wearableart.co.nz/ > >Incredible stuff! But I don't understand how the winner got the Bernina award when it doesn't look like there could have been an inch of thread in that armor. Sylvia Rognstad -- Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 01:40:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22332 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:40:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB26c6a2024921; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 23:38:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB26c1mA009086; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 23:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB26bvmA009062 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 23:37:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from p39-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.39] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18IkDM-0005Ms-00; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 19:37:56 +1300 Message-ID: <005b01c299cd$606ff2d0$a7c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: NZ and LotR PreRaphaelites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:38:07 +1300 Status: RO > > Continuum see:) And at the extreme end of recreation is what was made for > > the World of Wearable Arts recently held here in NZ. Where it's all about > > doing new things with covering the body. > > http://www.wearableart.co.nz/ > Incredible stuff! But I don't understand how the winner got the Bernina award > when it doesn't look like there could have been an inch of thread in that > armor. That's because it was the first time entrant award, not for use of a Bernina sewing machine;) michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 02:54:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22537 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 02:54:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB27j4a2027233; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB27j2mA022096; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB27i2mA021900 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-114-19.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.114.19]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANR26560; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:44:00 GMT Message-ID: <04cc01c299d7$42831360$6c754ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3DEA3F58.6537.1418C58C@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, was: Breastfeedin was Re: teeth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:48:52 -0000 Status: RO Taken off list Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 03:16:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07953 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:16:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB28E1a2028117; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB28E0mA027613; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB28D3mA027431 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:13:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021202081302.27785.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 08:13:02 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Brief stays question To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000c01c299b4$47601f40$2ca25ed1@6pmdy01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:13:02 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Sarah Krans wrote: > I have a really quick question that I just need reassurance on :) I am > finishing a set of 18th Century stays and was wondering if I might also > be able to use this same set for Elizabethan? While I don't mind making > stays/corsets, I would rather just not have too many sets - and to get > started on my Elizabethan gown! :) Sarah, while I am by no means an expert in either 16th nor 18th century costumes (ask me about anything in between *G*) I know enough about stays for all three hundred years to say that no, unfortunately 18th century stays and 16th century ones are totally different and will give a different body shape. I have loads of photos of extant stays (16th to 18th centuries) at home, if you like I can upload a couple tonight to show the differences. Don't do this, honestly, don't use 18th century ones as foundation for a 16th century dress. Nicole - who finally finished all the painting and stencilling and decorating jobs on walls etc. in her room. Whoohoo. Back to sewing soon! ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 03:19:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11498 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:19:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB28I1a2028237; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB28I1mA028350; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB28HAmA028181 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:17:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021202081709.19354.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 08:17:09 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website Update To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021202031315.61016.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:17:09 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Bella wrote: > > So, all my stuff is up - from the first tremulous > pattern drafting experience to my latest court gown, > but some of you will have already seen most of these > gowns. I will add to the galleries as I finish an > item. Questions and feedback welcome. :) > > Venetian garb: > Lovely, lovely, lovely Bella! > Each can be accessed from the other, and both are > linked to on my index page, as usual. hehehe, and guess what, when I clicked on that link it said... 'temporarily unavailable, member exceeded bandwidth' *G* I really like your garb galleries, very interesting, and beautiful gowns. Nicole- with more gold paint on her fingers than on the walls, so it feels. ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 03:32:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23847 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:32:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB28X2a2028935; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB28X0mA001999; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB28WfmA001924 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:32:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.196]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6H00J3MH2G96@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 00:32:41 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021202002823.00cb9210@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Dickens' Fair ticket mistake Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 00:32:32 -0800 Status: RO Last year I was able to get participant discount tickets for people, on more than one occasion, without their having to pay for them first. This year the same person, who let me do this last year, told me not only did she never do this last year, but she won't do it this year. So people will have to make other arrangements for their Dickens' Fair tickets than thru me. I apologize for any inconvenience this may mean. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 03:38:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA30522 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:38:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB28d2a2029138; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB28d0mA003108; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB28cWmA003010 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:38:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from p878-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.116] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18Im61-0001Iu-00; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 21:38:29 +1300 Message-ID: <00a201c299de$37e43f90$a7c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20021202002823.00cb9210@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Eowyn Costume uploaded:) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:38:41 +1300 Status: RO I have got the film back and I've scanned piccies of the costume I made. http://recital.tripod.com/costume/eowyn.htm http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/eowynprb.jpg http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/eowynground.jpg if tripod limits vies you can see these in the meantime:) Not bad for a few days work. Monday found out about the picnic. Tuesday bought the fabric and cut the body of the dress. Wednesday cut the lining and sewed the body up, faced the neck. Thurday morning recut sleeves made the fabric peices for the belt and that night bought fabric for the sleeves Friday cut sleeves found the silk to line the sleeves assembled the belt. Saturday made bias tape and hemmed the skirts, made the rings for the belt (formed wire around a cylinder and cut them) sewed the beads and bits to the neckline and belt. I love this dress so much. And am thinking of removing the bits that make it "Eowyn's" dress fromt he movie (the beading and the sleeve lining) and then bordering the sleeves, belt, neckline and inner sleeves in black velvet. This would make it match a design I drew last year of an Angel costume. I'd then perhaps pin back the sleeves as well.... michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 04:01:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21326 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:01:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB28x2a2029708; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB28x0mA007095; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB28w8mA006937 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:58:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021202085808.62390.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 08:58:08 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eowyn Costume uploaded:) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00a201c299de$37e43f90$a7c0adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:58:08 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- michaela wrote: > I have got the film back and I've scanned piccies of the costume I made. > http://recital.tripod.com/costume/eowyn.htm Great! What a lovely dress Michaela, you look gorgeous in it. > > I love this dress so much. And am thinking of removing the bits that make it > "Eowyn's" dress fromt he movie (the beading and the sleeve lining) and then > bordering the sleeves, belt, neckline and inner sleeves in black velvet. > This would make it match a design I drew last year of an Angel costume. I'd > then perhaps pin back the sleeves as well.... and why not! I will make a white one, but more Preraphaelite like the movie dress. then again I have helmet, chainmail, sword and shield all in 'real' (yep, re-enactm,ent stuff, not costume stuff, iron and steel is what I say every woman needs *LOL*) and all the way _I_ imagine Eowyn, not the movie idea. It looks all different but is all recognisable for someone who has read the book, not necessarily though for people who haven't but watched the film. I really love your dress, and so quick it was too! Congrats. :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 04:16:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04761 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:16:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB29E1a2000939; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 02:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB29E0mA010147; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 02:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB29DomA010118 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 02:13:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from p878-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.116] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18ImeC-0007C8-00; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:13:48 +1300 Message-ID: <00c301c299e3$264ef590$a7c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20021202085808.62390.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eowyn Costume uploaded:) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:13:58 +1300 Status: RO > I have got the film back and I've > scanned piccies of the costume I made. > > http://recital.tripod.com/costume/eowyn.htm > Great! What a lovely dress Michaela, you look gorgeous in it. Thanks:) And it really wasn't hot even though it was a hot day and I got very very mildly sunburnt. I mean not enough to change colour but enough to have tingly skin. > and why not! I will make a white one, but more Preraphaelite like the movie > dress. Sorry, you lost me there for a sec, mine is exactly as the movie costume was made... or are you leading into the differences you'll be making by first mentioning what you will be doing the same? then again I have helmet, chainmail, sword and shield all in 'real' > (yep, re-enactm,ent stuff, not costume stuff, iron and steel is what I say > every woman needs *LOL*) and all the way _I_ imagine Eowyn, not the movie idea. > It looks all different but is all recognisable for someone who has read the > book, not necessarily though for people who haven't but watched the film. Hehe, I've seen a few drawings by other artists of Eowyn in her battle costume, and while I think they are gorgeous and really pretty, wasn't it supposed to be a surprise when she took her helmet off, as in you all thought I was a man, but ahah! I am a woman;)? I'd like to make soemhting like the Persephone's Descent of the World of Wearable Art Awards:) I used to be a *big* fan of fantasy novels (then moved into the satirical fantasy Discworld;) ) and drew women in funky armour everywhere. Would love to be able to make some of them... ah well. I shall have to stick to heat set plastics as even removing (high qualty) grommets is taking its toll on my wrists. Don't wanna hasten deformities by bashing a lot of metal;) > I really love your dress, and so quick it was too! Congrats. :-) Thanks again:) It's one of my favs of all the things I've made;) michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 04:49:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04872 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:49:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB29l4a2001842; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 02:47:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB29l1mA016302; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 02:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB29k3mA016134 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 02:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gB29mm002716.; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:48:48 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 09:46:02 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Breaking bread, teeth & ear picking Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB29k3mA016134 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 09:45:44 +0000 Status: RO Dorothy Hartley quotes (from a longer poem on dining out in the Middle Ages): Byt not thy brede and lay it down That is no curtesye to use in Town But breke as muche as thou wylle ete The remelant to the pore thou shalle lete Unfortunately she doesn't give a specific source. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk 12/01/02 05:21pm >>> >Someone asked about Dorothy Hartley's books on this list a while back. I'm pretty sure my notions about the mediaeval origins of modern table manners came from her "Food in England", but that was published 40-50 years ago, so theories may have changed since then... I like her books but she tends to assume anything 'country' originates in medieval time, whilst some is true eg agricultural tools are similar, it can be a bit simplistic any way I'll look into Food in England I have a copy Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 05:25:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04962 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 05:25:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2AN3a2002979; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:23:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2AN1mA021753; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB2AMOmA021627 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:22:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021202102224.43389.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 10:22:24 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eowyn Costume uploaded:) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00c301c299e3$264ef590$a7c0adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:22:24 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- michaela wrote: > Sorry, you lost me there for a sec, mine is exactly as the movie costume was > made... or are you leading into the differences you'll be making by first > mentioning what you will be doing the same? Whoops! Sorry, non-native-speaker stroke again. ;-) I said 'like' but in fact I meant 'than' (which of course changes the meaning of the sentence into the opposite *laughs*) more Prerpahaelite _than_ the movie one, because I love those that have the tight sleeve underneath and I also want a broad band of something on the hem. > Hehe, I've seen a few drawings by other artists of Eowyn in her battle > costume, and while I think they are gorgeous and really pretty, wasn't it > supposed to be a surprise when she took her helmet off, as in you all > thought I was a man, but ahah! I am a woman;)? absolutely, Dernhelm didn't look at all like a woman, though I like some artists' drawings of the moment she takes the helmet off and out comes the blond hair. > I'd like to make soemhting like the Persephone's Descent of the World of > Wearable Art Awards:) I used to be a *big* fan of fantasy novels (then moved > into the satirical fantasy Discworld;) ) and drew women in funky armour > everywhere. Would love to be able to make some of them... ah well. I shall > have to stick to heat set plastics as even removing (high qualty) grommets > is taking its toll on my wrists. Don't wanna hasten deformities by bashing a > lot of metal;) Nah, but the solution is what I do: get your blackmsith to make you the armour. Every girl needs a trusty blacksmith *winks* > > I really love your dress, and so quick it was too! Congrats. :-) > > Thanks again:) It's one of my favs of all the things I've made;) :-))) And you look sure lovely in it! (could kill you for your hair, hehe) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 05:37:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05003 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 05:37:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2AZ2a2003421; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2AZ0mA024568; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:35:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2AYUmA024449 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:34:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-126-149.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.126.149]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANR47480; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:34:25 GMT Message-ID: <00c201c299ee$5b7bee70$957e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Breaking bread, teeth & ear picking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:34:11 -0000 Status: RO >Unfortunately she doesn't give a specific source. No she never does :( I expect somebody who was into language & how it was written might know the time, it looks later to me eg 15th or onwards, but I'm no expert on that !! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 05:41:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05021 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 05:41:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Ad1a2003551; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Ad0mA025595; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2AcemA025521 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:38:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-74-143.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.74.143] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18InyJ-0001Mt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 10:38:39 +0000 Message-ID: <006d01c299ef$84721e20$760d27d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Dress and "The Invention of Tradition" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:42:31 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, I have been re-reading Hugh Trevor-Roper's paper on the invention of the Highland tradition of Scotland, included in: "The Invention of Tradition" edited by Eric Hobsbawm and Terence Ranger, (Cambridge University Press 1983). and I heartily recommend it to anyone who hasn't previously come across it. It's a beautiful hatchet job:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 06:36:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05223 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 06:36:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2BU2a2005073; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2BU1mA005535; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:30:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2BT4mA005425 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-110-45.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.110.45]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANR58313; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:26:39 GMT Message-ID: <01a201c299f5$a7616390$957e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021202111135.5976A1E29AD@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Breaking bread, teeth & ear picking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:26:25 -0000 Status: RO >Found it: the Babees Book. In particular, the Book of Courtesy: dated "about" 1460, possibly including bits as early as 1420. Is it the same ? It looked similar but as I haven't the book in front of me it is hard to remember,(IMR my copy is a dual text) but as I said in my other post where I gave ref to a load of info the Babees book it dosen't necessarily mean our breaking bread originated there, just that in both time there was a tradition of breaking bread, continuance would be more convincing, nice idea though it is :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 06:37:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05227 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 06:37:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2BQ2a2004888; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2BQ0mA004812; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2BPomA004772 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:25:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from p878-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.116] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18Iohw-0007bk-00; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 00:25:49 +1300 Message-ID: <00ed01c299f5$97aab6e0$a7c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20021202102224.43389.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eowyn Costume uploaded:) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:26:00 +1300 Status: RO And I know more of you guys have seen my page tonight.. I keep track on who visits my site... ;) Ooh. have you seen photos of women in the late 19thC opera? Specifically Faust and the Valkyries of Wagner's operas? While many dn't look like they've stepped out of a PRB painting they have that great 19thC meets well 19thC vision of the middle ages or renaissance;) I have a few scanned.. I'll see if I can pop some on a site somewhere... http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0753802104/202-5321659-0143852 The book of Pre-Raphaelite Women is still available:) Interesting.. the image makes it look like the book is in portrait format.. I'm sure mine is more square > Whoops! Sorry, non-native-speaker stroke again. ;-) I said 'like' but in fact I > meant 'than' (which of course changes the meaning of the sentence into the > opposite *laughs*) more Prerpahaelite _than_ the movie one, because I love > those that have the tight sleeve underneath and I also want a broad band of > something on the hem. Ahah! Like with the corset too:) Cool:) Just thought I'd ask, as it's so so very easy to misconstrue what someone wrote :) I had fun when I saw the lillies.. i went.. woohoo! Perfect PRB symbo;) Howevr the pose was very much like in a Toulmouch painting:) > > Hehe, I've seen a few drawings by other artists of Eowyn in her battle > > costume, and while I think they are gorgeous and really pretty, wasn't it > > supposed to be a surprise when she took her helmet off, as in you all > > thought I was a man, but ahah! I am a woman;)? > absolutely, Dernhelm didn't look at all like a woman, though I like some > artists' drawings of the moment she takes the helmet off and out comes the > blond hair. yeah same, and with her hand resting on the sword:) > Nah, but the solution is what I do: get your blackmsith to make you the armour. > Every girl needs a trusty blacksmith *winks* hehe, well I suppose I could bat my lashes at some of the SCA guys...;) Oh yeah and I forgot to mention.. I won a double pass to see The Two Towers with my costume:) No I didn't come first, but aparently it was a real tie and the family that won won because.. well they were a family and yeah;) They won a pass to Hobbiton, would have been nice but what can you do;) However Bruce Hopkins (Gamling) who was doing the judging with a girl from Amnesty made a really nice speech about how much my costume looked like the real thing and that that everyone will see it it with the publicity coming up soon:) Anf then I got a photo with him and his autograph. Although.. lol! I have worked with him before:) For This Is It. Apparently they are doing something for the America's Cup this week too. And then a guy from Knights Draconis had been in This Is It too, and his comment to me about my cossie? Should have had boning in it. Dork. > > > I really love your dress, and so quick it was too! Congrats. :-) > > Thanks again:) It's one of my favs of all the things I've made;) > :-))) And you look sure lovely in it! (could kill you for your hair, hehe) heheh, funny thing is my hair used to be this long, then it broke off due to stress and being a really broke performing arts student (read lived on instant noodles) and it's started to gor back like never before because of the meds I'm on! It's the sulphur in it so while I wouldn't recommend anyone try the stuff I'm on, I would suggest a suppliment that contains sulphur. Nice other side effect is that it's working like an antibiotic, but without the nasty side effects:) I mean though I'm on immunosuppressants I've only been sick once this year and once last year:) Oh and I now have long long nails. So long I have to file them back constantly or I wind up poking myself in the eye when putting my contact lenses in;) I love having long hair:) It's also very useful for stage work:) Especially as I have no fringe (or bangs for our American friends). So it works for any era. And yes it does tuck up under a wig quite nicely. Especially as I learnt a very good trick from the make up team on Xena/JoAT: Make four french plaits, two outer that go round the hair line, and in opposite direction, two inner also alternating. Then you wrap the ends in the spaces between the rows. They flatten down very well and the rows are excellent for anchoring the pins through. For hair like mine that will not flatten in pin curls it's ideal:). michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 07:15:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05327 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:15:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2BC2a2004574; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2BC1mA002278; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2BBcmA002219 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:11:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5976A1E29AD; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:11:35 +0000 (GMT) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Breaking bread, teeth & ear picking From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20021202111135.5976A1E29AD@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:11:35 GMT Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote : > Dorothy Hartley quotes (from a longer poem on dining out in the Middle Ages): > Byt not thy brede and lay it down > That is no curtesye to use in Town > But breke as muche as thou wylle ete > The remelant to the pore thou shalle lete > > Unfortunately she doesn't give a specific source. Found it: the Babees Book. In particular, the Book of Courtesy: dated "about" 1460, possibly including bits as early as 1420. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 07:36:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05375 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:36:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2CY4a2007160; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 05:34:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2CY1mA018208; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 05:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2CXDmA018047 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 05:33:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 52B781E20E8; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:33:10 +0000 (GMT) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Breaking bread, teeth & ear picking From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20021202123310.52B781E20E8@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:33:10 GMT Status: RO Melanie Wilson wrote : > >Found it: the Babees Book. In particular, the Book of Courtesy: dated > "about" 1460, possibly including bits as early as 1420. > > Is it the same ? It looked similar but as I haven't the book in front of me > it is hard to remember,(IMR my copy is a dual text) I don't have a copy here in work: I was going by an on-line PDF translation. It looked similar enough to convince me that at the very least they were both working from the same source. > but as I said in my > other post where I gave ref to a load of info the Babees book it dosen't > necessarily mean our breaking bread originated there, just that in both time > there was a tradition of breaking bread, continuance would be more > convincing, nice idea though it is :) Oh yes, very true. And my knowledge of cooking/eating habits more or less stops after the mid-1650s. (It does restart in the 1990s, it's OK!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 07:50:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05436 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:50:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Bm3a2005540; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Bm1mA009083; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20202.mail.yahoo.com (web20202.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB2BlAmA008935 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:47:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021202114710.21821.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:47:10 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eowyn Costume uploaded:) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00a201c299de$37e43f90$a7c0adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:47:10 +1100 (EST) Status: RO Pretty, pretty, pretty! :) Bella http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 07:56:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05449 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:56:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Br1a2005657; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Br1mA010117; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20210.mail.yahoo.com (web20210.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB2BqCmA009953 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:52:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021202115211.51433.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:52:11 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website Update To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021202081709.19354.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:52:11 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- N Kipar wrote: > > Lovely, lovely, lovely Bella! Ta Nicole. :) > > Each can be accessed from the other, and both are > > linked to on my index page, as usual. > > hehehe, and guess what, when I clicked on that link > it said... 'temporarily > unavailable, member exceeded bandwidth' *G* Yep. I posted the notice on a few lists I'm on. :) The whole site's going to the new, no-bandwidth-limit server over the next few months. :) Bella http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 09:11:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05730 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:11:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2E87a2010935; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2E81mA010372; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB2E7tmA010338 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:07:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021202140754.5694.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:07:54 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eowyn Costume uploaded:) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00ed01c299f5$97aab6e0$a7c0adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:07:54 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- michaela wrote: > > Ooh. have you seen photos of women in the late 19thC opera? Specifically > Faust and the Valkyries of Wagner's operas? While many dn't look like > they've stepped out of a PRB painting they have that great 19thC meets well > 19thC vision of the middle ages or renaissance;) I have a few scanned.. I'll > see if I can pop some on a site somewhere... Yes please!!!!! > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0753802104/202-5321659-0143852 > The book of Pre-Raphaelite Women is still available:) Interesting.. the > image makes it look like the book is in portrait format.. I'm sure mine is > more squareav I put it onto my saved-books-for-when-I-have-a-few-quid-after-christmas list. > > artists' drawings of the moment she takes the helmet off and out comes the > > blond hair. > > yeah same, and with her hand resting on the sword:) I just hate the fact I have to buy a blonde human hair wig. I look like an idiot in blonde! > Oh yeah and I forgot to mention.. > I won a double pass to see The Two Towers with my costume:) No I didn't come > first, but aparently it was a real tie and the family that won won because.. > well they were a family and yeah;) Congrats!!! We have tickets for the opening night, that's why we'll go to Germany on the 19th and not before... :-))) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 09:19:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05744 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:19:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2EC2a2011099; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2EC1mA011302; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay3.softcomca.com (relay3.softcomca.com [168.144.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2EBnmA011268 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:11:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from M2W052.mail2web.com ([168.144.108.52]) by relay3.softcomca.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:11:49 -0500 Message-ID: <29950-22002121214114952@M2W052.mail2web.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Originating-IP: 198.31.196.189 X-URL: http://mail2web.com/ From: "sweetsheep@earthlink.net" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Dec 2002 14:11:49.0188 (UTC) FILETIME=[C139F040:01C29A0C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB2EBnmA011268 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: sweetsheep@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:11:49 -0500 Status: RO >I still don't get this concept of changing the hand your fork is in >though. Maybe this will help it make a little more sense... My great-grandmother explained to me that this custom dates from the pre-Civil War era (American Civil War, that is). According to her, the point of changing the hand your fork is in, only cutting one piece of meat (or whatever) at a time, changing hands, then eating it, was for ladies to demonstrate that they were NOT hungry. In an era when "ladies" ate a full meal before sitting down to dinner with company just so that they would not be SEEN eating much (and therefore enhancing their reputation as frail waifs) it was a way of being able to take up time at the dinner table without either appearing rude (by ignoring the food) or appearing to NEED to eat. This fashion was taken up by the Northern ladies who did not want to appear "crude" or "hungry" either, and gradually the male dandies also began eating this way. I don't know if this is actually true or not, but it does make sense, given the cultural attitudes of the time. My great-grandmother died in 1992 a few months before her 100th birthday (longevity runs in my family) and had been a anti-bellum southern belle her entire life, so I never questioned the explanation. Just a thought, Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 09:23:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05760 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:23:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2EL2a2011500; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2EL1mA013850; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12003.mail.yahoo.com (web12003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.211]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB2EKfmA013756 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:20:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021202142040.63755.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.244] by web12003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 06:20:40 PST From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] French contemporaries of Henry VIII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 06:20:40 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Being alot rusty on my historical timelines, who was contemporary with Henry VIII in the rest of the world. I know we have Francis I in France but what about the Hapsburgs and the rest of the eastern European and Scandinavian countries? I'm specifically looking for portraiture, not politics. I think there's a Holbien portrait of Christina I of Denmark but I'm not sure and I'm at a complete loss for the Iberian penninsula. Links? Help? Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 09:29:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05789 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:29:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2ER2a2011890; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2ER1mA015462; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2EQ3mA015099 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:26:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-164.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.164]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 308707C2B for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:25:57 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3DEB6D74.4030301@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] looking for pattern for 18th sack dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:25:56 +0100 Status: RO Hi, A friend of mine want's to make a 18th cenury sack dress. http://www.costumes.org/history/kohler/426.jpg But she is looking for a not to difficult pattern. It doesn't have to be perfectly period. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 10:28:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06148 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:28:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2FQ3a2015506; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2FQ0Zd005233; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2FPhZd005040 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:25:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1a5.ce4e714 (4214) for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:25:34 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1a5.ce4e714.2b1cd56e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pattern for 18th sack dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a5.ce4e714.2b1cd56e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:25:34 EST Status: RO --part1_1a5.ce4e714.2b1cd56e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/2/2002 9:27:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > But she is looking for a not to difficult pattern. > I have the Janice Ryan pattern. It looks fairly straightforward, but I've not actually used it. Does anyone on the list have experience with it? Ann Wass --part1_1a5.ce4e714.2b1cd56e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/2/2002 9:27:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes:


But she is looking for a not to difficult pattern.


I have the Janice Ryan pattern.  It looks fairly straightforward, but I've not actually used it.  Does anyone on the list have experience with it?
Ann Wass --part1_1a5.ce4e714.2b1cd56e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 10:41:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06192 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:41:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Fd2a2016598; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Fd0Zd010927; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from CatholicExchange.com (mail.catholicexchange.com [216.234.226.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2FcsZd010849 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:38:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from 6pmdy01 ([209.94.161.124]) by CatholicExchange.com ; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 09:38:56 -0600 From: "Sarah Krans" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for pattern for 18th sack dress Message-ID: <000601c29a18$d7d55450$7ca15ed1@6pmdy01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C299E6.8D3AE450" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <1a5.ce4e714.2b1cd56e@aol.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:38:13 -0600 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C299E6.8D3AE450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I haven't used Janice Ryan's sackback dress, but I have used her others (jacket and stays). I really like them. She even gives some really good direction as to adjusting the patterns to fit properly. Sarah -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of AnnBWass@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:26 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pattern for 18th sack dress In a message dated 12/2/2002 9:27:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: But she is looking for a not to difficult pattern. I have the Janice Ryan pattern. It looks fairly straightforward, but I've not actually used it. Does anyone on the list have experience with it? Ann Wass ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C299E6.8D3AE450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I = haven’t used Janice Ryan’s sackback dress, but I have used her others = (jacket and stays).  I really like them.  She even gives some really good direction as to adjusting the patterns to fit = properly.

 

Sarah

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: = h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of AnnBWass@aol.com
Sent: Monday, December = 02, 2002 9:26 AM
To: = h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] = looking for pattern for 18th sack dress

 

In a message dated = 12/2/2002 9:27:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes:



But she is looking for a = not to difficult pattern.



I have the Janice Ryan pattern.  It looks fairly straightforward, = but I've not actually used it.  Does anyone on the list have experience with = it?
Ann Wass

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C299E6.8D3AE450-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 10:57:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06241 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:57:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Ft5a2018483; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Ft1Zd018741; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2FskZd018558 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:54:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.39.3105087c (4214) for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:54:32 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <39.3105087c.2b1cdc38@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency corsets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_39.3105087c.2b1cdc38_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:54:32 EST Status: RO --part1_39.3105087c.2b1cdc38_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/29/2002 12:51:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, athurman@cybergal.com writes: > I'm still doing research, but I will keep the Mantua Maker pattern in mind. > > One of the great things about this pattern is that it provides good adjustment for different cup sizes--the gussets are sized accordingly. I think this is a good pattern to use as a base, even if you decide to cord/bone it differently. Ann Wass --part1_39.3105087c.2b1cdc38_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/29/2002 12:51:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, athurman@cybergal.com writes:


I'm still doing research, but I will keep the Mantua Maker pattern in mind.



One of the great things about this pattern is that it provides good adjustment for different cup sizes--the gussets are sized accordingly.  I think this is a good pattern to use as a base, even if you decide to cord/bone it differently.

Ann Wass

 --part1_39.3105087c.2b1cdc38_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 11:17:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06365 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:17:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2GF8a2020872; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2GF4Zd029336; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2GDvZd028696 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:13:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gB2GGg027765.; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:16:42 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 16:13:56 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1822? men & boys Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB2GDvZd028696 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 16:13:39 +0000 Status: RO I think quite young boys wore long trousers in the early 19th century, often buttoned to a short jacket. The custom of making the transition from short to long trousers starts later than this. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> pinner@mccc.edu 11/30/02 04:30pm >>> What would a 12 year old boy wear in New York in 1822? Middle class, son of a professor? 14 year old? At what age did they go to long pants? I know adult males were wearing long pants at this time. And coats? capes? For men, boys? I'm guessing shawls and capes for women -- what kind of coat would a women wear? Young girl?Thanks for any suggestions. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 12:07:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06610 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:07:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2H52a2026526; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2H51DH026272; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB2H3MDH025330 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:03:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 97335 invoked by uid 1005); 2 Dec 2002 17:03:11 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.317592 secs); 02 Dec 2002 17:03:11 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.317592 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 2 Dec 2002 17:03:10 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Brief stays question In-Reply-To: <000c01c299b4$47601f40$2ca25ed1@6pmdy01> Message-ID: <20021202115908.W1593-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:03:15 -0500 (EST) Status: RO This is a sort of yes & no question...18th c. stays create a much rounder front than Elizabethan stays, which just flatten you out. Also, the front point on elizabethan corsets tends to be a bit longer than the JP Ryan stays. If your stays have a curved front neckline or horizontal boning sewn across the top front, you probably won't be able to pass it off as Elizabethan. But if you don't, and you're small busted, the difference in silhouette /might/ be small enough that it wouldn't be noticeable. I've known women that wear their 16th c. (boned tab) stays for 18th c. gowns, and say that they look right. Good luck, Drea On Sun, 1 Dec 2002, Sarah Krans wrote: > I have a really quick question that I just need reassurance on :) I am > finishing a set of 18th Century stays and was wondering if I might also > be able to use this same set for Elizabethan? While I don't mind making > stays/corsets, I would rather just not have too many sets - and to get > started on my Elizabethan gown! :) > > Thanks! > > Sarah > > Sleep well. . .to eat little, work hard, and have many concerns on our > mind and then refuse to let our body sleep is to try to get a great deal > of work out of a poor, emaciated horse without letting him graze. - de > Sales > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 12:33:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06738 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:33:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2HQgdI029038; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:30:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Gv1DH021221; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41006.mail.yahoo.com (web41006.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB2GuWgW020797 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:56:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021202164946.60469.qmail@web41006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [158.125.1.23] by web41006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 08:49:46 PST From: Tania Gruning Subject: Re: [h-cost] French contemporaries of Henry VIII To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021202142040.63755.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1609550702-1038847786=:59289" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:49:46 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --0-1609550702-1038847786=:59289 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Cassandra. I believe that Christian the Second was king from 1513 til 1523 where he was dethroned for the bloodbath in Stockholm. After that was Frederik the first from 1523 to 1533 and then Christian the third 1533 to 1559. Christina the first of Sweden was Queen for only a short while after her father Gustav II Vasa was killed during the 30 year war. Pictures can be found at http://home19.inet.tele.dk/soren-kretzschmer/rennaessancen.html The text is in danish. Tania Being alot rusty on my historical timelines, who was contemporary with Henry VIII in the rest of the world. I know we have Francis I in France but what about the Hapsburgs and the rest of the eastern European and Scandinavian countries? I'm specifically looking for portraiture, not politics. I think there's a Holbien portrait of Christina I of Denmark but I'm not sure and I'm at a complete loss for the Iberian penninsula. Links? Help? Cassandra --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1609550702-1038847786=:59289 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Cassandra.

I believe that Christian the Second was king from 1513 til 1523 where he was dethroned for the bloodbath in Stockholm. After that was Frederik the first from 1523 to 1533 and then Christian the third 1533 to 1559. Christina the first of Sweden was Queen for only a short while after her father Gustav II Vasa was killed during the 30 year war.

Pictures can be found at

http://home19.inet.tele.dk/soren-kretzschmer/rennaessancen.html

The text is in danish.

Tania

Being alot rusty on my historical timelines, who was
contemporary with Henry VIII in the rest of the world.
I know we have Francis I in France but what about the
Hapsburgs and the rest of the eastern European and
Scandinavian countries?  I'm specifically looking for
portraiture, not politics.  I think there's a Holbien
portrait of Christina I of Denmark but I'm not sure
and I'm at a complete loss for the
Iberian penninsula.  Links?  Help?
                       Cassandra


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1609550702-1038847786=:59289-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 12:35:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06747 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:35:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2HX4a2000159; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:33:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2HX1DH013474; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from CatholicExchange.com (mail.catholicexchange.com [216.234.226.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2HWdDH013298 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:32:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from 6pmdy01 ([209.94.162.19]) by CatholicExchange.com ; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 11:32:41 -0600 From: "Sarah Krans" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Brief stays question Message-ID: <000601c29a28$bb8f3850$13a25ed1@6pmdy01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-reply-to: <20021202115908.W1593-100000@shell.siscom.net> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:32:02 -0600 Status: RO It's actually the JP Ryan stays that I'm working on. It's good to know that, at least for the time being, the 18thC stays could work. I am relatively flat chested (38B) and have a rather long and solid rib cage. Let's just say that I have 1" between the bottom of my ribs and my natural waist - and 1" between my natural waist and my hip bones (it makes fitting 1860's stuff interesting with others helping out!). What I have been using under my 18thC gown is an 1870s corset that doesn't have the waist pulled in too much (and it actually passes!). I do eventually plan on making a set of 16thC but right now am rather impatient to start the dress - and low on resources to make the 16thC. Thanks. Sarah Sleep well. . .to eat little, work hard, and have many concerns on our mind and then refuse to let our body sleep is to try to get a great deal of work out of a poor, emaciated horse without letting him graze. - de Sales -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Drea Leed Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:03 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Brief stays question This is a sort of yes & no question...18th c. stays create a much rounder front than Elizabethan stays, which just flatten you out. Also, the front point on elizabethan corsets tends to be a bit longer than the JP Ryan stays. If your stays have a curved front neckline or horizontal boning sewn across the top front, you probably won't be able to pass it off as Elizabethan. But if you don't, and you're small busted, the difference in silhouette /might/ be small enough that it wouldn't be noticeable. I've known women that wear their 16th c. (boned tab) stays for 18th c. gowns, and say that they look right. Good luck, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 13:37:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07106 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:37:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2IZ7a2006795; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:35:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2IZ3DH019943; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2IYBDH019431 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:34:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from ANALYSIS.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.86]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id gB2IYAx18357 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:34:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021202101106.02c2d180@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency corsets In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_6093531==_.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 10:33:58 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_6093531==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:50 PM 11/29/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I've read everyone's replies and am coming to the conclusion that I will >need the corset. While the idea of being a mervielleuse with no support at >all is appealing from the comfort/daring perspective, I'm a C-D cup and >going without will NOT be flattering! I've used the Mode petticoat pattern and if you can make the time to really work on fitting it, it's fabulous for those 1795 to 1807 "layers of muslin" dresses. There is a surprising amount of support. I'm a size 12 with a C bust and I has able to achieve the double hand span bust position. As I said previously, if you can get the fit worked up correctly, I find that it also does a good job changing my posture through the shoulders. For later dresses, Hunnisett has a stays layout that I've found to be scaleable. With the later dresses (1810 to 1820) , you need the stays with the busk to flatten the CF waist to hip line. You can also change the hang of the front of the dress by moving the top of the CF skirt farther up the bodice to give it some more hang space but I still think the full stays are needed. If you do go with the stays, you'll still need a chemise underneath or risk the Elizabethan skirt without petticoats "tea cozy" look. >I'm still doing research, but I will keep the Mantua Maker pattern in mind. >Thanks everyone! >Allison Clear as mud? >; ) Good luck with the project Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_6093531==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:50 PM 11/29/2002 -0500, you wrote:

I've read everyone's replies and am coming to the conclusion that I will need the corset. While the idea of being a mervielleuse with no support at all is appealing from the comfort/daring perspective, I'm a C-D cup and going without will NOT be flattering!

I've used the Mode petticoat pattern and if you can make the time to really work on fitting it, it's fabulous for those 1795 to 1807 "layers of muslin" dresses. There is a surprising amount of support. I'm a size 12 with a C bust and I has able to achieve the double hand span bust position. As I said previously, if you can get the fit worked up correctly, I find that it also does a good job changing my posture through the shoulders.

For later dresses, Hunnisett has a stays layout that I've found to be scaleable. With the later dresses (1810 to 1820) , you need the stays with the busk to flatten the CF waist to hip line. You can also change the hang of the front of the dress by moving the top of the CF skirt farther up the bodice to give it some more hang space but I still think the full stays are needed.

If you do go with the stays, you'll still need a chemise underneath or risk the Elizabethan skirt without petticoats "tea cozy" look.


I'm still doing research, but I will keep the Mantua Maker pattern in mind.
Thanks everyone!
Allison

Clear as mud? >; )  Good luck with the project

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis


--=====================_6093531==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 13:44:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07174 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:44:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Ib1a2007021; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Ib0DH021033; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2IaVDH020745 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:36:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.130] (pm4-130.eos.net [205.133.149.130]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28926 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:36:28 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021202165701.21214.63971.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Eowyn costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 13:33:56 -0500 Status: RO Michaela: How lovely! That is exactly the kind of dress that made me want to make costumes in the first place. I did make a white Norman-style gown once, with fairly narrow skirts and no long sleeves, and then a very pale see-through aqua one in the same style but with huge skirts and bell sleeves, and a long belt like yours. (In case anyone is wondering it was not a risque things -- I wore it over a tightly fitted white chemise.) It wasn't very historical but it was so wonderful to wear! It stopped fitting after baby number two, I eventually gave it to one of my babysitters to wear for Halloween!!! Now you are making me want to do another one. Is the Pre-Raphaelite Women book mostly text? If it's the one I read (can't remember the title) I highly recommend it. That one had a whole chapter on the Bohemiams, which I didn't know was an actual movement. For those of you who didn't know that either, they were would-be gypsies that lived wild camp-out lives. Lots of famous people used to go do it for a day or a weekend and pride themselves on their open-mindedness and daring. Gail Finke PS: I used to love watching Jack of all Trades! Not the best show, but lots of fun and the costumes were great. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 14:13:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07293 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:13:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2JB5a2010813; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:11:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2JB1DH010304; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2JAuDH010228 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool-63.53.233.144.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.144]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Ivy2-0005Z0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:10:54 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Cyclas engineering Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:58:36 -0800 Status: RO A couple of years ago I made myself a cyclas (early version of sideless surcoat, with armholes only about 12" deep) in dark blue linen, as something to wear over a lightweight undergown in hot weather. However, when I wear it, it slips around on my shoulders and won't stay centered -- sometimes slipping to one side, sometimes too far back which raises the front neckline too much (I _hate_ being choked by my clothing). I'm wondering how much of this is the fact that I made it out of linen, and how much of it might be an "engineering" problem. Did I make it too wide in the shoulders? It's wider at the top than my natural shoulder line, since the ones in paintings mostly seem to be cut that way. Is it too loose in the torso? Are there any modifications I can make to the cut that will help it to behave itself? I'd like to make a wool or brocade one soon as part of a new outfit, so I'd welcome suggestions. (Along with the other problem, I also have the impression that it makes me look fat, but I'm not sure whether that's true -- or if so, whether it can be helped. I'm your typical middle-aged pear shaped person , a bit on the stout side.) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 14:39:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07433 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:39:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Jb5a2013424; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Jb1DH024127; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2JaiDH023988 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:36:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.80] (as3-4-94.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.80]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gB2Jag011574 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:36:43 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Breaking bread, teeth & ear picking Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:05:06 -0800 Status: RO At 9:45 AM +0000 12/2/02, Kate M Bunting wrote: >Dorothy Hartley quotes (from a longer poem on dining out in the Middle Ages): >Byt not thy brede and lay it down >That is no curtesye to use in Town >But breke as muche as thou wylle ete >The remelant to the pore thou shalle lete > >Unfortunately she doesn't give a specific source. The first place to look might be the collection of metrical "etiquette manuals" published collectively as "The Babee's Booke" by the Early English Texts Society. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 14:40:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07444 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:40:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2JbWa2013462; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:37:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2JbWDH024411; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:37:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2JakDH024018 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:36:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.80] (as3-4-94.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.80]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gB2Jaj011660 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:36:45 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <006d01c299ef$84721e20$760d27d9@dan> References: <006d01c299ef$84721e20$760d27d9@dan> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress and "The Invention of Tradition" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:10:06 -0800 Status: RO At 10:42 AM +0000 12/2/02, Stevie Gamble wrote: >Hi all, > >I have been re-reading Hugh Trevor-Roper's paper on the invention of >the Highland tradition of Scotland, included in: > >"The Invention of Tradition" >edited by Eric Hobsbawm and Terence Ranger, (Cambridge University >Press >1983). > >and I heartily recommend it to anyone who hasn't previously come >across it. It's a beautiful hatchet job:-) If I'm remembering the same book, I'll second this. It's a wonderful study of the deliberate invention of "ancient traditions" for socio-political purposes. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 15:40:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08197 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:40:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2KbHa2019414; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:37:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Kb7DH025386; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:37:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12003.mail.yahoo.com (web12003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.211]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB2KaYDH025077 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:36:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021202203633.15401.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.219] by web12003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 12:36:33 PST From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Janice Ryan sacque gown pattern Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:36:33 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Where would one purchase the Janice Ryan sacque back gown pattern? I'm sure someone around here will take pity on the 9yds of jacquard print I have that looks somewhat like a Spitfields silk and buy me a sacque gown pattern for Christmas, as long as I can point them in the right direction of where to find said pattern. I also miss Jack of All Trades, loved the gowns and the hero. Oh well, my enjoyment of a show has been known to be the kiss of death. Cassandra (who finds this list dangerous to her ability to stick to just one period) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 15:55:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08289 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:55:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Kr2a2021040; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Kr1DH003914; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2KpxDH003299 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:51:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.142.3f97dac (4560) for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:51:42 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <142.3f97dac.2b1d21dd@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Janice Ryan sacque gown pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_142.3f97dac.2b1d21dd_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:51:41 EST Status: RO --part1_142.3f97dac.2b1d21dd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/2/2002 3:38:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, rosenau5@yahoo.com writes: > Where would one purchase the Janice Ryan sacque back > gown pattern? But to answer this question, Smoke and Fire carries them. Ann --part1_142.3f97dac.2b1d21dd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/2/2002 3:38:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, rosenau5@yahoo.com writes:


Where would one purchase the Janice Ryan sacque back
gown pattern? 


But to answer this question, Smoke and Fire carries them.
Ann --part1_142.3f97dac.2b1d21dd_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 16:01:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08332 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:01:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2KqPa2020926; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:52:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2KqNDH003549; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:52:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2KorDH002724 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:50:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.150.1824880e (4560) for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:49:11 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <150.1824880e.2b1d2146@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Janice Ryan sacque gown pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_150.1824880e.2b1d2146_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:49:10 EST Status: RO --part1_150.1824880e.2b1d2146_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/2/2002 3:38:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, rosenau5@yahoo.com writes: > . > I also miss Jack of All Trades, loved the gowns and > the hero. Oh well, my enjoyment of a show has been > known to be the kiss of death. > The gowns were amazing, all right, but TOTALLY wrong period. The setting was supposed to be early 1800s. Several of us discussed at the time that the designer could have made the clothes, appropriate to the period, with just as much sex and eye appeal, but in a different way. Clearly no knowledge of costume history, or just didn't care. I know it's theater, but still! Kind of like the Adrian "Pride and Prejudice" in the style of the 1830s. But we don't need to get off on that tangent, do we? Ann Wass --part1_150.1824880e.2b1d2146_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/2/2002 3:38:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, rosenau5@yahoo.com writes:


.
   I also miss Jack of All Trades, loved the gowns and
the hero.  Oh well, my enjoyment of a show has been
known to be the kiss of death.
                     


The gowns were amazing, all right, but TOTALLY wrong period.  The setting was supposed to be early 1800s.  Several of us discussed at the time that the designer could have made the clothes, appropriate to the period, with just as much sex and eye appeal, but in a different way.  Clearly no knowledge of costume history, or just didn't care.  I know it's theater, but still!  Kind of like the Adrian "Pride and Prejudice" in the style of the 1830s.

But we don't need to get off on that tangent, do we?
Ann Wass --part1_150.1824880e.2b1d2146_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 16:39:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08947 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:39:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Lb3a2025290; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Lb1DH027240; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2La4DH026754 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A2435A3C0296; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:36:03 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A23E10B601E8; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:35:58 -0600 Message-ID: <002f01c29a4a$d12649c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <142.3f97dac.2b1d21dd@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Janice Ryan sacque gown pattern MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01C29A20.E7654580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:36:03 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C29A20.E7654580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can purchase Janice's patterns at her website http://www.jpryan.com/ . She also teaches a class at my Costume Classroom on how to make the gowns. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C29A20.E7654580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You can purchase Janice's patterns at her website http://www.jpryan.com/ .  = She also=20 teaches a class at my Costume Classroom on how to make the gowns.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
  ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C29A20.E7654580-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 17:07:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09610 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:07:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2M52a2027924; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2M51pF012815; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2M4ZpF012534 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.4d.283ab2a0 (15876) for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:04:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d17.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.133]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v89.21) with ESMTP id MAILINID73-1202170417; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 17:04:17 -0500 From: Mayfair13a@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4352EF6D.4925BC8A.0BE75FBE@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Sale Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 17:03:07 -0500 Status: RO Hi All, Just letting you know that we are having a huge fabric sale at the Costumers Corner in Boise, ID. 40% off ALL FABRIC. If you are interested check out www.thecostumeshopboise.com. Any questions, please feel free to email me. Sale goes Dec.3rd thru Dec.16th. Cheers! Pasha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 17:32:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10181 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:32:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2MT3a2000502; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2MT1pF025991; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2MSbpF025762 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:28:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-164-48-168.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.168] helo=megan2) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 18Iz3K-00064Z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 17:28:34 -0500 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: Mrs. Weasley (was Re: [h-cost] Gilderoy Lockhart Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021129200731.04be4d80@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:36:42 -0500 Status: RO Anyone have a picture of the second Mrs. Weasley sweater? Sounds interesting to me, but when I saw the movie, I was between 12 hour shifts of work, got 3 hours sleep and back to work, so I missed a few details. I guess I'm gonna just have to see it again soon to see what I missed in my sleep-deprived befuddled state. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 17:56:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10680 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:56:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Ls2a2026944; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2Ls0pF006764; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2LrBpF006396 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A647688A01EC; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:53:11 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A64729B8012C; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:53:11 -0600 Message-ID: <007d01c29a4d$38a82c60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000601c29a18$d7d55450$7ca15ed1@6pmdy01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pattern for 18th sack dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0079_01C29A23.4EF04FE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:53:15 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C29A23.4EF04FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have had several students take Janice's stays and the gown classes. Janice is a really good teacher and explains directions well. We have opened both of these classes to year round classes... starting in January, you can start the class at anytime and the student has two months to complete the class. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C29A23.4EF04FE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We have had several students take Janice's stays and the gown=20 classes.  Janice is a really good teacher and explains directions=20 well.  We have opened both of these classes to year round = classes...=20 starting in January, you can start the class at anytime and the student = has two=20 months to complete the class.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
 
------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C29A23.4EF04FE0-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 19:15:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11634 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:15:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2NR4a2009621; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2NR1ti000746; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB2NQSti000404 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:26:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from p487-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.233] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18IzxL-0003tF-00; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 12:26:27 +1300 Message-ID: <006601c29a5a$44e0c2f0$e9c1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20021202115211.51433.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:26:40 +1300 Status: RO > > Lovely, lovely, lovely Bella! > Ta Nicole. :) Yeah really lovely:) And it's also really nice to see them all in one place:) And thank you for your comments about my dress:) Just thought I'd save list space and reply here;) > > hehehe, and guess what, when I clicked on that link > > it said... 'temporarily > > unavailable, member exceeded bandwidth' *G* > Yep. I posted the notice on a few lists I'm on. :) heheh, I know that feeling;) Fortunately with being in a different time zone to most people on this list I was able to have a quickie peeky poo before others were able to view it;) > The whole site's going to the new, no-bandwidth-limit > server over the next few months. :) How on earth do they do it! I also noticed no ads or pop ups on the page.... one is seriously concidering if not a move at least a mirror over there.... michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 19:28:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11674 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:28:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB30G7a2016573; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB30G3HC026214; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f57.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB30F8HC025769 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:15:03 -0800 Received: from 66.141.48.235 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 00:15:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.141.48.235] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] French contemporaries of Henry VIII Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2002 00:15:03.0165 (UTC) FILETIME=[06848AD0:01C29A61] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 00:15:02 +0000 Status: RO The Emperor Charles was a contemporary of Henry VIII, and was the nephew of Katherine of Aragon, Henry's first wife. He was a Hapsburg - his father was Phillip of Burgundy. His mother was Juana la Loca of Spain. Hope this helps... Mary/Katerine >Being alot rusty on my historical timelines, who was >contemporary with Henry VIII in the rest of the world. > I know we have Francis I in France but what about the >Hapsburgs and the rest of the eastern European and >Scandinavian countries? I'm specifically looking for >portraiture, not politics. I think there's a Holbien >portrait of Christina I of Denmark but I'm not sure >and I'm at a complete loss for the >Iberian penninsula. Links? Help? > Cassandra > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 20:21:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11883 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:21:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB31CGa2020713; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:12:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB31C1HC018127; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB31BIHC017873 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:11:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 20778 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2002 01:11:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bookbusiness) (208.166.66.61) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 3 Dec 2002 01:11:16 -0000 From: "Janet Davis" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Anyone know Coryn Welgle? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:11:20 -0500 Status: RO Actually, her business is still Medieval Miscellanea - Period Pavilions. According to the Pennsic 30 merchant guide, she can be found at: 6530 Spring Valley Dr. Alexandria, VA 22312 703-642-1740 office@medievalmisc.com Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http:/www.medievalbookstore.com >Mistress Kathea von Linse is her SCA name. Mundane name is Corrie Weigle. She used to be "Medieval Miscellania" before some kind of bust up. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 20:44:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11965 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:44:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB31Z3a2022118; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB31Z2HC025767; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB31YmHC025703 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:34:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-0ccsjoa.cable.mindspring.com ([24.206.79.10] helo=earthlink.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18J1xY-000443-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 17:34:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3DEC0A2B.5C92D636@earthlink.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone know Coryn Welgle? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: perronnelle@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 19:34:35 -0600 Status: RO IIRC, Medieval Miscellanea split the tent side of things and is now concentrating on patterns. --Charlene Janet Davis wrote: > > Actually, her business is still Medieval Miscellanea - Period Pavilions. > According to the Pennsic 30 merchant guide, she can be found at: > 6530 Spring Valley Dr. > Alexandria, VA 22312 > 703-642-1740 > office@medievalmisc.com > > Janet > > Janet Davis > Castle Furnishings > http:/www.medievalbookstore.com > > >Mistress Kathea von Linse is her SCA name. Mundane name is Corrie Weigle. > She used to be "Medieval Miscellania" before some kind of bust up. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Official sign near door: Door Alarmed. Hand-printed sign nearby: Window frightened. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 21:10:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12096 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:10:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB31r2a2023368; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB31r1HC001789; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB31qHHC001559 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:52:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB32DgYc000986; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:13:42 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gB32Dgft000983; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:13:42 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, "sweetsheep@earthlink.net" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <29950-22002121214114952@M2W052.mail2web.com> In-Reply-To: <29950-22002121214114952@M2W052.mail2web.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200212022113.41941.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB31qHHC001559 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:13:41 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 02 December 2002 09:11 am, sweetsheep@earthlink.net wrote: [text cut here] > Maybe this will help it make a little more sense... My great-grandmother > explained to me that this custom dates from the pre-Civil War era (American > Civil War, that is). According to her, the point of changing the hand your > fork is in, only cutting one piece of meat (or whatever) at a time, > changing hands, then eating it, was for ladies to demonstrate that they > were NOT hungry. In an era when "ladies" ate a full meal before sitting > down to dinner with company just so that they would not be SEEN eating much > (and therefore enhancing their reputation as frail waifs) it was a way of > being able to take up time at the dinner table without either appearing > rude (by ignoring the food) or appearing to NEED to eat. This fashion was > taken up by the Northern ladies who did not want to appear "crude" or > "hungry" either, and gradually the male dandies also began eating this way. Still can't imagine why redblooded working class *non* dandies would take the custom up, though. And as most of us are aware, Americans are perfectly capable of eating lots of food, fork switching or not. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 21:16:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12123 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:16:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3251a2024204; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3250HC005269; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB324uHC005208 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:04:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB32QMYc001125; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:26:22 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gB32QM9Q001123; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:26:22 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, AnnBWass@aol.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Janice Ryan sacque gown pattern User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <142.3f97dac.2b1d21dd@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <142.3f97dac.2b1d21dd@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200212022126.21733.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB324uHC005208 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:26:21 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 02 December 2002 03:51 pm, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/2/2002 3:38:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > rosenau5@yahoo.com writes: > > Where would one purchase the Janice Ryan sacque back > > gown pattern? > > But to answer this question, Smoke and Fire carries them. I'd bet Amazon Drygoods and AlterYears has them, too. -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 21:25:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12176 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:25:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB31E1a2020821; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB31E0HC018779; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB31DEHC018517 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:13:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB31F6Yv011144 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:15:07 -0800 Message-ID: <3DEC0595.8080107@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] French contemporaries of Henry VIII References: <20021202142040.63755.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 17:15:01 -0800 Status: RO Here's a couple of sites that offer portraits, some of rulers. You might check out the various _Timeline_ sites on the web to find Russian, Slavic, Lithuanian references to monarchs but portraiture of those folks is hard to come by due to the instability of the political/economical climate in those areas - never a really supportive condition for the arts. http://ripley.wo.sbc.edu/faculty/witcombe/ARTH16thcentury.html http://www.geocities.com/masterhaggen/kings/16th.htm Good luck, Theresa Eacker Cascio Michael wrote: > Being alot rusty on my historical timelines, who was > contemporary with Henry VIII in the rest of the world. > I know we have Francis I in France but what about the > Hapsburgs and the rest of the eastern European and > Scandinavian countries? I'm specifically looking for > portraiture, not politics. I think there's a Holbien > portrait of Christina I of Denmark but I'm not sure > and I'm at a complete loss for the > Iberian penninsula. Links? Help? > Cassandra > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 21:51:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12278 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:51:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB32i3a2026460; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB32i2HC017510; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB32hIHC017267 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:43:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.171] (pm5-171.eos.net [205.133.149.171]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24591 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:43:16 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021203013501.25762.23596.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: jack of all trade Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 21:40:40 -0500 Status: RO Yes, I know the gowns were the wrong period, but I guess I thought that was part of the show's charm. Very tongue-in-cheek. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 22:13:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12355 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:13:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3351a2027785; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3350HC023887; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3342HC023530 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3360Yv015210 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:06:01 -0800 Message-ID: <3DEC1F93.7060409@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] French contemporaries of Henry VIII References: <20021202142040.63755.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> <3DEC0595.8080107@misc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 19:05:55 -0800 Status: RO To Cascio- Some of these might be interesting: Christian II of Denmark http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/g/gossaert/2/christia.html Juana la Loca, Philip I http://www.macuquina.com/histories/joanna_juana.htm Gustavas I of Sweden http://worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/gifs7/gustavsweden1523.jpg Isabella of Portugal http://www.mezzo-mondo.com/arts/mm/titian/TIZ013.html Sigismund II of Poland (a little after Henry) http://www.uni-mannheim.de/mateo/desbillons/eico/seite137.html Ivan the Terrible http://www.lib.utexas.edu/photodraw/portraits/ivan4.jpg Theresa Eacker > > Cascio Michael wrote: > >> Being alot rusty on my historical timelines, who was >> contemporary with Henry VIII in the rest of the world. >> I know we have Francis I in France but what about the >> Hapsburgs and the rest of the eastern European and >> Scandinavian countries? I'm specifically looking for >> portraiture, not politics. I think there's a Holbien >> portrait of Christina I of Denmark but I'm not sure >> and I'm at a complete loss for the Iberian penninsula. Links? Help? >> Cassandra >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >> http://mailplus.yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 22:33:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12515 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:33:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB32R3a2025404; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB32R1HC012163; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB32Q3HC011882 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m218.in-tch.com [216.166.191.218]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB32A7D13060 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:10:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEC164E.BCDB60FD@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Janice Ryan sacque gown pattern References: <142.3f97dac.2b1d21dd@aol.com> <002f01c29a4a$d12649c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 19:26:22 -0700 Status: RO And she's a really nice lady, and very helpful! --Sue (who took her stays class and her carraco jacket class, and who will, gawd willing and the creek don't flood, actually get them made one of these days!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 22:50:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12585 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:50:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB33m3a2000372; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB33m0HC006336; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB33lgHC006255 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:47:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from asv8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (asv8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.47]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6I00LRXYE7J1@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:44:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by asv8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gB33iIb04770 for ; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:44:18 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating In-reply-to: <200212022113.41941.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <29950-22002121214114952@M2W052.mail2web.com> <200212022113.41941.cathy@thyrsus.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:43:08 -0500 Status: RO Here's the scoop, as it were, on why Americans switch the fork from one had to another: I did a search on Ask Jeeves. Asking "Why do Americans switch hands when eating with a fork and knife?" Among other sites, they gave me Cuisinenet.com on a page called "A History of Eating Utensils in the West: A Brief Timeline". In it under the heading for 1630 was this paragraph: "Governor Winthrop of the Massachusetts Bay Colony possesses what is said to be the first and only fork in colonial America. The fad for using a fork has not yet reached the Americas, but Americans continue to import their knives from Europe. The blunted knives imported from Europe are not so easy to eat with as pointed ones were, and many people begin to use a spoon to steady food while cutting it. They then switch the spoon to the right hand to scoop up the bite of food -- the beginnings of what is known today as the zig-zag method." And just to avoid any more confusion an explanation of the zig-zag method: The Zig Zag Method By American custom, which was brought about partly by the late introduction of the fork into the culture, all three utensils are intended for use primarily with the right hand, which is the more capable hand for most people. This leads to some complicated maneuvering when foods, such as meat, require the use of knife and fork to obtain a bite of manageable size. When this is the case, the fork is held in the left hand, turned so that the tines point downward, the better to hold the meat in place while the right hand operates the knife. After a bite-sized piece has been cut, the diner sets the knife down on the plate and transfers the fork to the right hand, so that it can be used to carry the newly cut morsel to the mouth. Emily Post calls this the "zig-zag" style. And to be sure they are not making this up, here's the bibliography: Reading List: 1. From Hand to Mouth, Or, How We Invented Knives, Forks, Spoons and Chopsticks, and the Manners to Go with Them by James Cross Giblin. New York: Crowell, 1987. 2. The Evolution of Useful Things by Henry Petroski. New York: Vintage Books, 1994. 3. The History of Manners by Norbert Elias. New York: Pantheon Books, 1978. 4. Spoon by Habbakuk O. Westman. London: Wiley & Putnam, 1845. Linda K-S _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Dec 2 23:22:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12730 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:22:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB34J5a2002380; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:19:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB34J4HC015937; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:19:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB34IpHC015864 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:18:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18J4WI-0006w1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 20:18:50 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Anyone know Coryn Welgle? Message-ID: <001001c29a83$15646710$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <3DEA9FBE.97355047@in-tch.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:18:50 -0700 Status: RO Have you tried contacting the current printer/distributor? --sue Yes, no response at all from them. I'll try the number one of you provided and see where that takes me. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 00:00:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12864 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:00:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB34o2a2004182; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB34o1HC025122; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB34nGHC024836 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:49:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18J4zi-0003v6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Dec 2002 20:49:15 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <001101c29a87$550182a0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29A4C.A8A2AAA0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <3DEA9FBE.97355047@in-tch.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Construction stumper (puzzle) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:49:13 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29A4C.A8A2AAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have committed to teaching a class at Estrella on the German Goller and have been puzzling over this pattern in Kohler. I have drafted it, fiddled with it and still am unsure if I have understood it. I finally drafted my own pattern which looks like the garment, but this thing is bugging the crap out of me because I can't see how it goes together. My questions are: 1. Is there a relationship between the pattern on the left and right, or are these two different patterns for a goller? 2. Which side is the front and which is the back? 3. Where does the oblong piece referred to in the text get inserted? 4. Why does he say the part round the neck is not sewn on separately, but then says the standup collar is formed by inserting an oblong piece between the ends that extended upward in front? I am thinking a fresh pair of eyes needs to look at it, so I won't taint you by telling you how I put it together. http://www.saragrace.net/images/Costume/KohlerGoller.pdf A few pictures of gollers: This one may not look exactly like any of the pictures below. http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1520baselholbein.htm http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/p/pourbus/pieter/index.html Portrait of Jacquemyne Buuck ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29A4C.A8A2AAA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have committed to teaching a class at Estrella on the German Goller and have been puzzling over this pattern in = Kohler.  I have drafted it, fiddled with = it and still am unsure if I have understood it.  I finally drafted my own pattern which looks like the garment, = but this thing is bugging the crap out of me because I can’t see how it = goes together.  =

 

My questions are:

 

1.      = Is there a relationship between the pattern on the left and right, or are = these two different patterns for a goller?

2.      = Which side is the front and which is the back?

3.      = Where does the oblong piece referred to in the text get = inserted?

4.      = Why does he say the part round the neck is not sewn on separately, but then = says the standup collar is formed by inserting an oblong piece between the = ends that extended upward in front?

 

 

I am thinking a fresh pair of eyes needs to look at it, so I won’t = taint you by telling you how I put it together.

 

 

http://= www.saragrace.net/images/Costume/KohlerGoller.pdf

 

A few pictures of gollers:  This one may not look exactly = like any of the pictures below.

 

http://frazz= ledfrau.tripod.com/1520baselholbein.htm

 

http:= //www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/p/pourbus/pieter/index.html

 

Portrait of Jacquemyne = Buuck

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29A4C.A8A2AAA0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 00:15:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12901 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:15:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB35D4a2005367; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:13:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB35D3HC001615; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB35C4HC001313 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:12:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from p826-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.64] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18J5Lm-0007YJ-00; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 18:12:02 +1300 Message-ID: <014b01c29a8a$8146f270$40c3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <150.1824880e.2b1d2146@aol.com> Subject: JoAT Re: [h-cost] Janice Ryan sacque gown pattern MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0146_01C29AF7.7424E5D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:11:51 +1300 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0146_01C29AF7.7424E5D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <> But that's exactly the point of theatre/tv it shouldn't be a slave to = historical correctness as that is not it's purpose. And the audience it = reaches in the majority knows *nothing* about costume. It needs to be = able to further story and character and set the mood. It was also set in the back waters of a little outpost in the pacific = (well sort of asian/pacific) so fashions were supposed to be out of = date. I was in an episode (.. One Wedding and a funeral I think) where = Josephine was a character and she was indeed dressed in early 1800s. Now if they were going to be a bit more accurate with just how behind = the fashions would have been (a few years perhaps, I know NZ used to be = several years behind fashion even this last century!) then the impact of = the fashionable woman and the islanders would not have made an impact. And of course the Eiffel Tower featured in one show.. as well as = American football;)=20 It was such a great show to work on:) So very fun. I got to be goosed by = Bruce Campell several times during a sequence with him as the Daring = Dragoon... heheheh. Had a camera about 5 inches from my butt for second = unit;) Our costumes were extremely well made except for the hems of the skirts = (which only used fusible stuff, possibly for easy alterations for = different heights?) and consisted of chemise, corset petticoat, = underskirt and over gown. I didn't wear the chemise though as it was not = fully natural fibres unlike the corset and rest of the kit and when you = are working in Auckland summers for 15+ hours a day you do as much as = you can to stay cool:) Some others had silk gowns and some gowns were = made of fashionable reversable brocades. http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/onstage.htm First image I'm on the extreme right of this screen cap. http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/backstage.htm First four images, it's quite obvious who I am I guess;) The corsets were straight from Nora Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines and = fully boned. My wig was a nightmare. It looked like a big cow pat, so I changed my = hair colour and got a new one a few episodes from the end.. heheheeh. = Actually that wig was lovely, very dark brunette and it suited me so = well. I have one photo of that.. I really should scan it.... I have a nice = large flat hat on too... michela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume ------=_NextPart_000_0146_01C29AF7.7424E5D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<<The gowns were amazing, all right, but = TOTALLY wrong=20 period.  The setting was supposed to be early 1800s.  Several = of us=20 discussed at the time that the designer could have made the clothes, = appropriate=20 to the period, with just as much sex and eye appeal, but in a different=20 way.  Clearly no knowledge of costume history, or just didn't = care.  I=20 know it's theater, but still!  Kind of like the Adrian "Pride and=20 Prejudice" in the style of the 1830s.>>
 
But that's exactly the point of theatre/tv it = shouldn't be a=20 slave to historical correctness as that is not it's purpose. And the = audience it=20 reaches in the majority knows *nothing* about costume. It needs to be = able to=20 further story and character and set the mood.
 
It was also set in the back waters of a little = outpost in the=20 pacific (well sort of asian/pacific) so fashions were supposed to be out = of=20 date. I was in an episode (.. One Wedding and a funeral I think) where = Josephine=20 was a character and she was indeed dressed in early = 1800s.
 
Now if they were going to be a bit more accurate = with just=20 how behind the fashions would have been (a few years perhaps, I know NZ = used to=20 be several years behind fashion even this last century!) then the impact = of the=20 fashionable woman and the islanders would not have made an=20 impact.
 
And of course the Eiffel Tower featured in one = show.. as well=20 as American football;)
 
It was such a great show to work on:) So very fun. = I got to=20 be goosed by Bruce Campell several times during a sequence with him as = the=20 Daring Dragoon... heheheh. Had a camera about 5 inches from my butt for = second=20 unit;)
 
Our costumes were extremely well made = except for=20 the hems of the skirts (which only used fusible stuff, possibly for easy = alterations for different heights?) and consisted of chemise, corset = petticoat,=20 underskirt and over gown. I didn't wear the chemise though as it was not = fully=20 natural fibres unlike the corset and rest of the kit and when you are = working in=20 Auckland summers for 15+ hours a day you do as much as you can to stay = cool:)=20 Some others had silk gowns and some gowns were made of fashionable = reversable=20 brocades.
 
http://homepag= es.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/onstage.htm
First image I'm on the extreme right of = this screen=20 cap.
http://homep= ages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/backstage.htm
First four images, it's quite obvious = who I am I=20 guess;)
 
The corsets were straight from Nora = Waugh's Corsets=20 and Crinolines and fully boned.
 
My wig was a nightmare. It looked like = a big cow=20 pat, so I changed my hair colour and got a new one a few episodes from = the end..=20 heheheeh. Actually that wig was lovely, very dark brunette and it suited = me so=20 well.
I have one photo of that.. I really should scan = it.... I have=20 a nice large flat hat on too...
 
michela
 
http://homepages.ihug.co.n= z/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/cost= ume
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0146_01C29AF7.7424E5D0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 00:19:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12906 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:19:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB35H2a2005581; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB35H1HC002658; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB35GqHC002615 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:16:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from p826-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.64] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18J5QR-0002Gv-00; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 18:16:51 +1300 Message-ID: <000901c29a8b$2e8f2560$40c3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20021202140754.5694.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: 19thC opera photosRe: [h-cost] Eowyn Costume uploaded:) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:16:48 +1300 Status: RO > > Ooh. have you seen photos of women in the late 19thC opera? Specifically > > Faust and the Valkyries of Wagner's operas? While many dn't look like > > they've stepped out of a PRB painting they have that great 19thC meets well > > 19thC vision of the middle ages or renaissance;) I have a few scanned.. I'll > > see if I can pop some on a site somewhere... > Yes please!!!!! I've scanned the images I have most were photocopies unfortunately but they still give a good impression:) http://members.fortunecity.com/christine_daae_1881/opera.htm michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 03:38:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09469 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 03:38:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB38a5a2013598; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 01:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB38a1HC022516; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 01:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB38Z4HC022290 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 01:35:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021203083503.87813.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 08:35:03 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: 19thC opera photosRe: [h-cost] Eowyn Costume uploaded:) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000901c29a8b$2e8f2560$40c3adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:35:03 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- michaela wrote: > I've scanned the images I have most were photocopies unfortunately but they > still give a good impression:) > > http://members.fortunecity.com/christine_daae_1881/opera.htm They are lovely, but most of them don't work. :-( There's a tripod error page. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 07:13:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28187 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:13:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3CBAa2021099; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 05:11:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3CB3HC008263; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 05:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3CA4HC008054 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 05:10:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.78.31e43be9 (3699) for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:09:52 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <78.31e43be9.2b1df910@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_78.31e43be9.2b1df910_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Subject: [h-cost] Re: JoAT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:09:52 EST Status: RO --part1_78.31e43be9.2b1df910_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the first-hand reports of the show. But I thought some episodes were set in the Caribbean? In which case the "many years out of date" doesn't wash. But, I confess, I only watched it a couple of times--didn't find it nearly as entertaining as I had hoped from the promos. Ann Wass --part1_78.31e43be9.2b1df910_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the first-hand reports of the show.  But I thought some episodes were set in the Caribbean?  In which case the "many years out of date" doesn't wash.  But, I confess, I only watched it a couple of times--didn't find it nearly as entertaining as I had hoped from the promos.
Ann Wass
 --part1_78.31e43be9.2b1df910_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:11:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28356 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:11:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3D9Aa2023126; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:09:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3D91HC021932; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALA6RS0029924 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:06:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18EoE7-0006X3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:06:27 -0800 Message-ID: <3DDCB01A.80506@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] what's a Spanish tassel dress? References: <20021121013551.18970.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:06:18 -0500 Status: RO That bears an amazing resemblance to a portrait of the magdalen, flemish, can't remember the time period that is in the Wadsworth Athanaeum in Hartford CT. Hers is a read dress, but the most striking blue bejewelled surcoat with the same cut. I will have to find the info on it again, and see if I can find the catalog and scan in the pic or find it online. My husband and I had a long discussion with the curator about getting in to photograph the painting as the catalog pic is in B&W ;-( because I wanted to use it to document an 'allegorical costume' for a fancy dress ball of allegorical/mythological people at Pennsic a few years ago. I still say that that style surcoat is allegorical. I can honestly say I have never seen a surcoat like this on what is supposed to be an actual person before[I don't consider the Magdalen to be an actual person...] margali Bella wrote: > Sure. Actually, a friend on another list scanned the > image and enlarged the figure, then uploaded it to her > site.... > > > > > Bella > > > http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper > - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:19:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28421 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:19:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DHJa2023491; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:17:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DHIHC024014; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:17:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAPHudpQ011117 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:56:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-125-195.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.125.195]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANC26307; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:54:29 GMT Message-ID: <032101c294ac$a792d9a0$c37d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:00:46 -0000 Status: RO Americans seem to take more space & be louder because English people are not used to their accents and they therefore stand out. I was on a human remains course last summer and an american lady was also in attendance. During the first few days in the small porta cabin classroom we all shared she seemed to do nothing but yell , but after a few days it seemed less so (this was remarked on by several of the English) I'm pretty convinced we simply learnt to turn out her speech the way we automatically do with others speech which falls in our 'normal' range. Generally most British will not notice american accents on TV as their brains tune out or into them as 'normal' for the box in the corner. This also happens with other accents say Glaswegian, if you are not familiar with it on a regular basis. Personal space issues are more difficult but I don't think are nationality based alone, it will also reflect the cultural aspects with that country. Not all Americans react the same, neither do all, Brits, French or what-have-you. To me city people (regardless of nationality) have a tendancy to rudeness, they don't speak, see you or let you go by politly (obviously not all of them) However, this changes greatly if you dress in Victorian kit (in London at least) Where people get out of you way, open dors and (heavans above) converse with you. How much of this is pure costume & how much is the way I become a different person in Victorian is hard to say as I've heard other have problems in such kit of people being abusive , I've never had that in any kit in any country (well once but he didn't live long ;)) In a large skirt I expect others to remove themselves from my path, as I would have done had I worn it at the time, I don't see any reason to defer to others in space, most people get the idea. This sounds pretty lofty I'd agree but it is the way I react in my Victorian or other gentry kit, if I'm in lower class kit I act like a lower class would & remove myself. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:19:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28425 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:19:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DD0a2023307; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DCaHC022841; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALAE4S0008810 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18EoLT-0003Fk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:14:04 -0800 Message-ID: <3DDCB1DE.1090109@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:13:50 -0500 Status: RO My german buddy is coming over in january, I might be persuaded to ask him to bring it over if you could get it to him, and I could ship it on from here... margali Cassandra Greer wrote: > Well you could talk to me about it - the problem is getting this book from > here to you (wherever you are - I assume the States? I live here in Munich. > > Cass :) > > >>Maybe I missed it, but how could I get my hands on a copy of this catalog? >> >>Mary/Katerine >>(who is once again buying books for the pictures!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:19:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28429 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:19:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DH2a2023473; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DGxHC023942; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns.istop.com (ns.istop.com [66.11.168.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAPHPnpQ023011 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:25:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (ip46-170.ott.dsl.istop.com [66.11.170.46]) by ns.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C647117014 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:25:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18GMzR-0000xz-00 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:25:45 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House In-Reply-To: <20021124160258.3081.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021122200040.01f44590@saltmine.radix.net> <20021124160258.3081.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:25:45 -0500 Status: RO I'm a dead ringer for those 16th century Flemish genre paintings showing women doing things with food as some kind of allegory about the sins of the flesh. I got told a while ago at an SCA event that I had "the right face" for what I was wearing. I doubt that's actually the case... but I do have fair English sort of skin and wasn't wearing any make-up. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:20:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28440 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:20:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DGYa2023442; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:16:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DGGHC023776; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAPGWVpQ023663 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:32:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-125-195.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.125.195]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANC19032; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:30:28 GMT Message-ID: <01f901c294a0$ea8a3700$c37d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021125140952.37018.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:37:15 -0000 Status: RO >I have to say though, I have never seen so amny ugly and awful teeth as here in England, as sorry I am to say this, but it is true and quite shocking. Occasionally I can't really look into someone's face when speaking to them, then again, at least the teeth here are very historically correct apparently Do you mean crowded or going bad ? Much of the crowding problem is because modern people eat mush for food & the jaw does not develop fully Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:20:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28446 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:20:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DIRa2023584; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:18:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DHvHC024187; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns.istop.com (ns.istop.com [66.11.168.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAPMFweb006024 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:15:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (ip46-170.ott.dsl.istop.com [66.11.170.46]) by ns.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A89D1702E for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:15:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18GRWI-0001GR-00 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:15:58 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:15:58 -0500 Status: RO Linda wrote: > I wonder how much large clothing plays in this. I attended an event > this past weekend where a lady wearing a hoplande with a very long > train stopped in a hall to talk with a person standing against the > wall. Because of where she stopped, the train effectively blocked the > entire walk way in the hall. She, being in conversation was oblivious > of the number of folks who tried to not step on the train while > hurrying on their errands ladened with large trunks, bags or baskets > and the minor stir this caused between two who exchanged rude > behavior. Another whisked by in a purple Elizabethan with a rather > large hoop skirt. Her skirts touched people who were along the walls > of the halls. The person I was near exclaimed on how she would never > wear a dress like that as you can't avoid hitting people and things. Someone once suggested (half-jokingly, I *hope*) that Elizabethan costume shouldn't be allowed at large/crowded SCA events, for this very reason. Me, I handle my skirts by looking ahead a bit and planning which way to go places, so I don't get tangled up in close-set furniture or anything. When moving through crowded spaces I hold my skirts in my hand to keep them out of the way. But then, I'm not in a farthingale, just multiple layers of fullish skirts. I think I'd find it much more threatening to have large costumes assaulting me at head height than at ankle height. I'm not very protective of my ankle-space, but if someone had a large spiky hat or something, it might bother me. This weekend just past, I visited a museum which had a display of a typical Victorian parlour. It seemed very crowded given the size of the skirts for much of that period. Anyone know how on earth they moved around their over-furnished houses in crinolines? K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:21:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28463 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:21:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DJga2023629; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DJRHC024547; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:19:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAQ7R9eb011378 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:27:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-116-46.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.116.46]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANJ00513; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:27:04 GMT Message-ID: <01a501c2951d$e6bc8560$2e744ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] fluoride Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:30:37 -0000 Status: RO >Out of curiosity - are there places in Europe that add fluoride to their drinking water? It's done all over the US as a way to improve dental health... Yes it is done in England in my area at least, I hate that, tastes foul, now we tend to buy bottled water like the continentals so it is a pretty pointless excersise !! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:36:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28563 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:36:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DY1a2024199; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DY01T027939; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns.istop.com (ns.istop.com [66.11.168.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAQGWnBq029539 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:32:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (ip46-170.ott.dsl.istop.com [66.11.170.46]) by ns.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7B89171A9 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:32:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18Gidk-0001xA-00 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:32:48 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] ethnic posture / identification In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:32:48 -0500 Status: RO Jean asked: > I thought about it, and I realised that, living in a very varied > population like we do in the UK and US, the first thing I would describe > about someone was their hair colour and texture, because that splits > people up into reasonably small groups very quickly. People from less > mixed populations, to my eyes are all squeezed into a very small part of > that range,(for example, Asian/subcontinental - fine silky black hair, > south-east Asian - thick straight black hair) so I find them difficult > to tell apart, until I know them well enough to recognise features that > in [genetically] European people I wouldn't pay so much attention to. > > I was wondering whether people from communities which, to my eyes, seem > all to have the same type of hair, identify by finer differences in hair > colour and type, or is the first thing you distinguish a different > feature which has more variety? I grew up in Australia, and went to a boarding school there. At that school there were a number of asian students (mostly Singaporean, Malaysian, and from Hong Kong), and I had great difficulty telling them apart because (to me) they all had similar facial features and hair. I learnt to distinguish them by the shoes they wore, the style of their glasses, etc. One term I roomed with a Singaporean girl, and we got talking one night and she told me she had equal difficulty distinguishing between anglo-australian girls. Unfortunately she didn't give me any information on how asian people distinguish themselves. I don't *think* they would use shoes and glasses like I did! K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:36:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28570 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:36:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DY9a2024216; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DY91T027971; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAQHI1ID022835 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-118-220.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.118.220]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANJ53455; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:17:50 GMT Message-ID: <00e201c29570$6e66c5a0$dc764ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] ethnic posture / identification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:22:43 -0000 Status: RO >,(for example, Asian/subcontinental - fine silky black hair, south-east Asian - thick straight black hair) so I find them difficult to tell apart, until I know them well enough to recognise features that in [genetically] European people I wouldn't pay so much attention to. I can generally split Indian/Pakistani people into their regions by their looks and their behaviour (at least I think that is how I do it I'm not that sure really) But in my area there a many around so I'm more tuned into it. >From speaking to friends from Asian communities I've heard them say we (European genetically) look the same. Leicester (the city not county) white people all look the same to me & I can't tell most 50-60 year olds from one another, sounds weird but there is a certain stamp to them (Gross generlisation obviouly some do differ !!!) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:36:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28576 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:36:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYIa2024260; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYI1T028029; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from napoleon.lanier-engineers.com ([65.174.8.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gARDRB4n015209 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:27:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by NAPOLEON with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4H97P1FW>; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:27:54 -0600 Message-ID: <700D29BDA652D411A77400A0CC2195F56D390E@NAPOLEON> From: Curtis Paulina To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Subject: [h-cost] English Royalty fashions of the 1700s... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:27:54 -0600 Status: RO I was wondering if you could direct me to any websites where I can find information on English Royalty fashions of the 1700s mainly dealing with men's wigs and women's accessories. Thank you for your help. curtis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This email message and any accompanying attachments are confidential and privileged. This information is intended solely for the addressee; access by anyone else is unauthorized. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by mistransmission. If you are not the intended recipient, any forwarding, opening of attachments, disclosure, copying, distribution, or other action, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error, please delete it and any attachments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:36:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28580 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:36:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYCa2024228; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYC1T027986; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAQHRgID029061 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:27:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-118-220.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.118.220]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANJ54608; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:27:38 GMT Message-ID: <00fb01c29571$cccb16e0$dc764ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body typeperiods) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:32:30 -0000 Status: RO >Most tooth loss comes from plaque-related diseases (tooth decay and gum disease). These were apparently not a great problem until refined sugar became widely available Peridontal disease and absesses were wide spread long before sugar was around, there is some evidence of decay but as you say it tends to be less than now. Another big problem is wear from grit etc this wears away the enamal & leave the tooth more open to decay >Of course, in the Middle Ages, a broken or lost tooth couldn't be fixed or replaced, and when you did get a tooth disease, you would have it pulled, Depends where but there were so instances of repairs >But far fewer teeth were lost in the first place than were, say, a century ago. Hmm not sure on this one, I've seen skellys with no teeth at all one lady dubbed Godiva lost hers so long before death even the jaw had remoudled & there were no holes visible at all (where teeth would have been) >There were also a variety of teeth-cleaning methods in use historically, depending on your class and culture. I was most amused at a scene in Shakespeare in Love, when Gwyneth Paltrow is dressing, and her nurse hands her some small instrument and demands she clean her teeth. I'm not sure what the instrument was, but it looked like the equivalent of the frayed-end stick used commonly by many more "primitive" cultures. Tooth picks are common archaelogical finds, reminies from leechdoms & medical manuals are pretty common too. > If only people went for natural looking colours, like ivory and not > screaming white, that would be so much better, and not those front > rows of teeth that look like being chiselled out of one block. Actually people are barking up the wrong tree with the tooth thing, with bigger jaws their tooth alighnment would be very good. Their mouths probaly stank from peridontal diese & had plenty of plaque built up :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:36:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28585 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:36:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYLa2024276; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYL1T028043; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns.istop.com (ns.istop.com [66.11.168.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gARF7Y9v017509 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:07:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (ip46-170.ott.dsl.istop.com [66.11.170.46]) by ns.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFF8A1701E for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:07:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18H3mn-0002zm-00 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:07:33 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic eating In-Reply-To: <042a01c2959a$5bb53660$eaf4fea9@glendaii> References: <042a01c2959a$5bb53660$eaf4fea9@glendaii> Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:07:33 -0500 Status: RO Glenda wrote: > > Historical Note: These entirely different ways of eating using a knife and > fork has me coming to the conclusion that eating with both of these as a > matter of course with all classes of people may have come on after the start > of the US colonies, but before the start of the Australian colonies, as the > US one seems so different, but the Aust. one is practically identical. Maybe > it might have something to do with the early US population being made up of > more mainland Europeans than the Australian mix. Anyone have any ideas? In a book I have (goes to check...) "In Small Things Forgotten: An Archaeology of Early American Life" by James Deetz, he suggests it's to do with the fashions in pointy or round-ended knives and the introduction of forks into the mainstream in England before they arrived in America. Basically, if you have a pointy knife you can use it to jab food and lift it. If you have a round knife you can't. Oh, let me just quote... this is too hard to paraphrase: The first mention of a fork in the Plymouth Colony area... is in 1721... but significant numbers do not show up... until the second half of the century. When forks appeared in quantities in England, knives changed in shape, and rounded blade ends replaced the pointed ones, since forks had assumed the function of the pointed blade. However, since most knives were made in England, and the fork appeared later in America, this relationship did not prevail in the New World. Using a round-ended knife and not having a fork, one would either have made considerable use of the fingers conveying solid foods to the mouth or made do with a spoon. This raises an interesting, if conjectural, point. Americans often comment that Europeans use their forks "upside down." In fact ,by the simple rule of priority and majority, it is we Americans who are "upside down". Since we did not learn to use forks until some time after the ends of knives were rounded, the change in the manner of food conveyance was not directly from knife tip to fork tine, as it ws in England. The only intermediate utensil available was the spoon; one could cut food and transfer it to the spoon bowl. If even one generation used knife and spoon in this manner, the fork, upon its belated appearance, would be used in a manner similar to the spoon. Which is precisely the way we use it today. Yet, in its function of anchoring food for cutting, the fork is held curve down; it is turned over while transferring the food from the plate to the mouth. This distinctive way of using hte knife, fork, and spoon came into existence during hte late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries, and thus is one more American idiosyncrasy arising from isolation during that period. Interesting theory, no? K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:36:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28586 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:36:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYFa2024246; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYF1T028006; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gASKTQrI017849 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:29:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18HVHq-0001tl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:29:26 -0800 Message-ID: <3DE67CC1.2020202@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exhibit 16th-17th century clothing Munich Catalog Update References: <3DE2D5FE.4000408@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:29:53 -0500 Status: RO Well, if Cassandra takes the money and buys the books, and gets them to Christian, and he puts them in his flight bag and hand delivers them to me in January... margali Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > What aboud a fourth option? > It won't work for everyone....... > What aboud bringing it ? > Around Newyear or so... > :-) :-P :-P :-P > > Greetings, > Deredere > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:36:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28590 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:36:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYOa2024288; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYO1T028066; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns.istop.com (ns.istop.com [66.11.168.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gARJ7sMd016421 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:07:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (ip46-170.ott.dsl.istop.com [66.11.170.46]) by ns.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E81170A5 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:07:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18H7XN-00039H-00 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:07:53 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body typeperiods) In-Reply-To: References: <20021127.094916.-153497.2.Cley@juno.com> Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:07:53 -0500 Status: RO Robin wrote: > But I'd be keen on knowing whether there's any, say, written evidence for > the use of earscoops. You see those little spoon things in Viking caches, > too -- I once heard someone surmise they were coke spoons. ;-) It's always > been assumed they were for ear cleaning, but I don't know whether there's > any reason to think that, or whether that's just someone's best guess > that's been repeated for years. At the Royal Ontario Museum the other day, I noticed they had some teeny tiny little scoops in the Coptic Egypt display. They said, however, that the scoops were used for getting perfumed ointment out of jars. This seems like a not-improbable use for such scoops. I was also reading a book on needlework tools and accessories, and there were many examples of stilettos -- spikes for poking holes in fabric for eyelets, etc. These were often found in collections of needlework tools, and could be made of bone, metal, etc. So that's a alternative possibility for the "toothpicks". On another note, I believe earscoops are used in the present day by some Asian cultures. I used to share a house with a Malaysian guy who said that he thought they were cool, and older relatives of his (father? grandmother?) had or used them, and I think he might have mentioned that you could pick them up in chinatown if you looked in the right place. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:36:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28596 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:36:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYTa2024316; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYT1T028098; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gATKd3UO009479 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Hruh-0006V3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:39:03 -0800 Message-ID: <3DE7D067.7040209@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exhibit 16th-17th century clothing Munich Update References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:39:03 -0500 Status: RO Happy dance!!! The book got here;-) the oblaten, and lebkuchen did too, but that is a different list ;-) It is fantastic! It is also in german so I can see I will be spending quality time with my dictionary instead of my husband...he will just have to be understanding! grin. First on the list is pp 22, item 3 - it is a mid 16th century shirt. Blackwork, cutwork, pulled threadwork and interesting hem/seam treatment. All the individual pieces have little rolled hems and are then held to the next piece with a fancy openwork stitch...I can't wait to find out more about it as I would love to recreate this shirt! margali _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:36:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28600 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:36:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYRa2024302; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYQ1T028081; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gASKMerI016498 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:22:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18HVBI-000443-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:22:40 -0800 Message-ID: <3DE67B2B.6020600@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exhibit 16th-17th century clothing Munich Update References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:23:07 -0500 Status: RO One of the sold ones is mine ;-) Christian went and bought it for me and it is slllloooooowwwwwwly wandering it's way here from Laupheim ;-) along with oblaten for making lebkuchen and marchpane. lebkuchen and spekulaas, and more goodies he won't tell me about. Fratz! My curiosity is killing me ;-) margali Cassandra Greer wrote: > It was a great tour > and since it was for a group of ladies from a textile institute in > Switzerland, I think there were extra details given than aren't normally. > Afterwards I talked to here about the catalog and stuff. I told her there > were several people in the States and in England who are interested in > getting it and she was apologetic about the credit card problem but there > was nothing she could do about. She said 2000 were printed, 350 have been > sold so far 6 weeks into the exhibit. She is talking with some of her > contacts in the States about seeing if she can't get some of them to some > museum shops in the States. There won't be an English translation since they > don't have the resources for printing for such a relatively small audience. > > She said she was going to send me something in English about the exhibit - > hopefully it will come tomorrow by email and then I will pass it on. > She also has my contact info to let me know by mail when other interesting > things come up and then I will even be invited to premeres and stuff :))) > > She gave me the website of the guy (Johannes Pietsch) who helped restore the > pieces on display for this exhibit (and who would be teaching that class to > make the men's lederkoller). I went to his site and he actually has the > pattern for the one men's slit jacket pictured on my website. > > http://www.kostuemforschung.de/1207.html > > http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum4.html (the one on the top > right) > > And as a nifty detail from one of the religious embroidered things they had > that show tulips (the wild, stripped kind): she said that tulips came from > Turkey and the ones they valued were the skinny pointy kind with a pure > color and didn't make it to central Europe until the mid 16th century. The > wild ones actually came about due to a virus that infected the bulbs and > resulted in all sorts of wird mutations -which stayed around and resulted in > the tulip craze in Holland. This info helps date pieces because if they > appear then it had to be after the intro date. :))) > > As I remember details I'll try to post them. > > (BTW as a sidenote, I told her I had scanned some of the pictures and put > them online -the ones with patterns in the book so people would have a > chance to get a small taste of what is in the book, and she said yeah - > someone already 'told on me' someone who apparently didn't think it was > appropriate that I did this. 'Oh that was you - you must be cassandra > greer'. So she had even been to the site. At any rate she was happy I did > it and said I could keep it up since she is happy for all the advertisement > for this that she can get - especially since the sole purpose for me putting > it up was to get people interested in the book -since the museum website > doesn't even mention it. As for the person who 'told on me', it would have > been nice if they had said something to me first instead of being a 'tattle > tail'.) > > > Cass :) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 08:36:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28604 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:36:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYWa2024330; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3DYW1T028120; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:34:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAU3iDUO018224 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:44:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18HyY9-00053K-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:44:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3DE8340A.2000505@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating References: <20021129155921.B51C21E2714@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 22:44:10 -0500 Status: RO You on the SCA-cooks list? margali > > I can point you at huge great documents on that one, if you really want to know: my main hobby is medieval cooking, costume is just a sideline [:)] > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 09:29:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28967 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:29:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3ERKa2027009; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:27:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3ERJ1T013331; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:27:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3EQJ1T012960 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:26:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a225.in-tch.com [66.62.107.25]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB3EAMD16820 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:10:22 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DECBF1D.6E7D510C@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating References: <20021129155921.B51C21E2714@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> <3DE8340A.2000505@Spamcop.Net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 07:26:37 -0700 Status: RO We're *everywhere*! --maire/sue M Traber wrote: > > You on the SCA-cooks list? > margali > > > > > I can point you at huge great documents on that one, if you really want to know: my main hobby is medieval cooking, costume is just a sideline [:)] > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 09:39:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29070 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:39:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3ER2a2026991; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3ER01T013209; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3EQF1T012968 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:26:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 238E91E2349; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:26:11 +0000 (GMT) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20021203142611.238E91E2349@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:26:11 GMT Status: RO M Traber wrote : > You on the SCA-cooks list? > margali I have been, but couldn't keep up with the traffic. Too much of it was either SCA-specific, or USA-specific, and thus classed as "noise" from my POV. Wonderful group of knowledgable people, though. The Godecookery list is what I'm on: much more subject-specific. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 10:34:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29299 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:34:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3FW1a2001902; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3FW01T008391; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB3FV61T007900 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:31:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2093 invoked by uid 1005); 3 Dec 2002 15:31:01 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.066642 secs); 03 Dec 2002 15:31:01 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.066642 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 3 Dec 2002 15:31:01 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cyclas engineering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021203102806.K18930-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:31:03 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Chris, If you bring the back side up higher rather than having it scooped, this will help keep it in place.Another suggestion is to have most of the neckhole curve on the front piece, and very little on the back piece. This has helped keep cloaks & T-Tunics from strangling me. If you add edging or piping on the neck edge that has something of a nap (wool, etc.) this may help it "stick" to whatever's being worn underneath. Happy cycling, Drea On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Chris Laning wrote: > A couple of years ago I made myself a cyclas (early version of > sideless surcoat, with armholes only about 12" deep) in dark blue > linen, as something to wear over a lightweight undergown in hot > weather. > > However, when I wear it, it slips around on my shoulders and won't > stay centered -- sometimes slipping to one side, sometimes too far > back which raises the front neckline too much (I _hate_ being choked > by my clothing). > > I'm wondering how much of this is the fact that I made it out of > linen, and how much of it might be an "engineering" problem. Did I > make it too wide in the shoulders? It's wider at the top than my > natural shoulder line, since the ones in paintings mostly seem to be > cut that way. Is it too loose in the torso? Are there any > modifications I can make to the cut that will help it to behave > itself? > > I'd like to make a wool or brocade one soon as part of a new outfit, > so I'd welcome suggestions. > > (Along with the other problem, I also have the impression that it > makes me look fat, but I'm not sure whether that's true -- or if so, > whether it can be helped. I'm your typical middle-aged pear shaped > person , a bit on the stout side.) > -- > _________________________________________________________ > O Chris Laning > | > + Davis, California > _________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 10:34:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29303 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:34:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3FP7a2001374; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:25:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3FP01T005060; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3FO31T004606 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp194.directcon.net [206.170.184.194]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gB3FNvAB019112; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:23:58 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021203072807.00d8dec0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: JoAT In-Reply-To: <78.31e43be9.2b1df910@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 07:28:07 -0800 Status: RO Some of us, who don't watch television, have no idea what "joAT" means. Explanation, please? Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 10:41:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29326 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:41:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Fd4a2002482; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:39:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Fd11T011798; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3FcV1T011537 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:38:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6J00G7VVBGA8@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 10:35:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: Re:[h-cost] fluoride To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DECCF13.9080906@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:34:43 -0600 Status: RO I know this is completely OT... but I have to respond to this .. My husband is a highly respected dentist in the US. And we are working to get flouride included in the drinking water in the community he serves. Why? Because we live in a major metropolitan area but each smaller community in and around are served by different water companies... and the commmunity he works in has the highest incidence of dental carries in their children than any of the other surrounding close communities. Now we are talking about being able to walk across the street and drinking water that is flouridated or drinking water in your own home (50 feet away) that may not be. Flouride occurs naturally in many water sources around the world. And the quantities that it takes to help prevent dental carries can in no way change the flavor of the water. We are talking micro-milli whatevers in content. It would be like a spec of dust affecting the flavor of a swimming pool of water. And I know of many studies done of bottled waters from around the world.. lots of them have naturally occuring flouride in higher levels than is introduced. 100% pure water, means it has had nothing added to it... not that everything that occurs naturally in it has been removed. If you want as close to completely nothing but H2O, then drink distilled water. It is flat flavored and almost seems to be missing something. Please understand, I am not trying to incite anything, just trying to educate a bit on the topic. Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 10:57:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29407 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:57:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Fv3a2004187; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Fv11T020645; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shockwave.systems.pipex.net (shockwave.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3FuX1T020326 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:56:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by shockwave.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 173791600B5F9 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:56:28 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000c01c29ae4$94ea4fc0$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: References: <3DECCF13.9080906@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Re:[h-cost] fluoride MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:56:45 -0000 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 3:34 PM Subject: Re:[h-cost] fluoride > ... and the commmunity he works in has the highest incidence of dental > carries in their children than any of the other surrounding close communities. I live in England, where we have had fluoride in the water for some time. A few years after it had been introduced, my dentist told me that he had revisited his old dental school, and the department that taught dentistry for children's teeth now had the problem that there were hardly any cases to be seen, since most children's teeth were now strong and healthy. Linda Walton. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 11:04:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29436 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:04:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3G21a2004639; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3G211T023133; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3G1G1T022708 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:01:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01789 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:09:42 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cyclas engineering In-Reply-To: <20021203102806.K18930-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:09:42 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > If you add edging or piping on the neck edge that has something of a > nap (wool, etc.) this may help it "stick" to whatever's being worn > underneath. To which I add: Also consider the nap of the fabrics that are rubbing -- you may have a slight directional nap on either the cyclas lining or the underdress that is forcing the other fabric to shift. Lining the cyclas with a very smooth worsted or very smooth linen can help keep it from crawling. On one of my earliest outfits, when I was a starving college student, I cut an underdress very economically by turning the fabric sideways. It was a slightly fuzzy brushed cotton, rather flannel-like in texture. You couldn't see that there was a directional nap, but I found it out the hard way, when my fitted laced overdress twisted on my body. Within just an hour or two, the bottom of the front lacing had spiraled around to my side. It took me a while to realize that there was nothing wrong with the overdress; it was just following the push of the underdress nap. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 12:33:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29892 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:33:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3HDra2011294; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:13:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3HB11T029444; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB3HAU1T029087 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:10:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 30497 invoked by uid 0); 3 Dec 2002 17:10:24 -0000 Received: from pd958f928.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.88.249.40) by mail.gmx.net (mp018-rz3) with SMTP; 3 Dec 2002 17:10:24 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exhibit 16th-17th century clothing Munich Catalog Update From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3DE67CC1.2020202@Spamcop.Net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 18:10:23 +0100 Status: RO Hey if he will do this then I would do it too! Several people have already done it through me but they are being shipped by boat.... Cass :) PS seeeeee! Someone else knows how cool this book is too! :))) > Well, if Cassandra takes the money and buys the books, and gets > them to Christian, and he puts them in his flight bag and hand > delivers them to me in January... > > margali > > Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > >> What aboud a fourth option? >> It won't work for everyone....... >> What aboud bringing it ? >> Around Newyear or so... >> :-) :-P :-P :-P >> >> Greetings, >> Deredere > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 12:43:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30006 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:43:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3HQla2012544; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:26:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3HO11T007248; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3HNM1T006869 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:23:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from ANALYSIS.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.86]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id gB3HNLx28183 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:23:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021203084656.00a6fd40@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Construction stumper (puzzle) In-Reply-To: <001101c29a87$550182a0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> References: <3DEA9FBE.97355047@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_4606421==_.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:15:24 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_4606421==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed It's been easily 6 years since I did any study in this area and 3 years since I've looked at a German pattern. I'll answer what I can. At 09:49 PM 12/2/2002 -0700, you wrote: >My questions are: > > 1. Is there a relationship between the pattern on the left and > right, or are these two different patterns for a goller? Two different ones. The pattern on the left is supposed to be a gollar with a standing collar. The right is for a gollar with a shawl (rolled) collar. Whether either of these will make the garments is subject to debate >; ) >2. Which side is the front and which is the back? The left side is the front on both figures. >3. Where does the oblong piece referred to in the text get inserted? The figure on the left shows a fish eye dart being taken out which makes sense. The one gollar I've seen made from this particular pattern used a dart which was rounded. I think it's a translation error. >4. Why does he say the part round the neck is not sewn on separately, >but then says the standup collar is formed by inserting an oblong piece >between the ends that extended upward in front? Same as above. The provenance of those patterns is up for debate as far as I'm concerned. I remember something about Kohler being originally a 9 vol study that was condensed into 1 book. I'm sure someone with a better memory can fill in the blanks I'm missing. Back to the 19th & 20th c. for me >; ) Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_4606421==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" It's been easily 6 years since I did any study in this area and 3 years since I've looked at a German pattern.  I'll answer what I can.

At 09:49 PM 12/2/2002 -0700, you wrote:
My questions are:

 1.      Is there a relationship between the pattern on the left and right, or are these two different patterns for a goller?

Two different ones.  The pattern on the left is supposed to be a gollar with a standing collar. The right is for a gollar with a shawl (rolled) collar. Whether either of these will make the garments is subject to debate >; )

2.      Which side is the front and which is the back?

The left side is the front on both figures.

3.      Where does the oblong piece referred to in the text get inserted?

The figure on the left shows a fish eye dart being taken out which makes sense. The one gollar I've seen made from this particular pattern used a dart which was rounded. I think it's a translation error.

4.      Why does he say the part round the neck is not sewn on separately, but then says the standup collar is formed by inserting an oblong piece between the ends that extended upward in front?

Same as above.

The provenance of those patterns is up for debate as far as I'm concerned. I remember something about Kohler being originally a 9 vol study that was condensed into 1 book. I'm sure someone with a better memory can fill in the blanks I'm missing.

Back to the 19th & 20th c. for me >; )

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis


--=====================_4606421==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 13:39:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30189 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:39:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3IMHa2018438; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:22:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3IJW1T008869; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:19:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3I9K1T002992 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:09:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-110-167.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.110.167]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANT15692; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:09:06 GMT Message-ID: <00da01c29af7$bc2c1380$b1694ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3DECCF13.9080906@comcast.net> <000c01c29ae4$94ea4fc0$97725651@bella> Subject: Re: Re:[h-cost] fluoride MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:13:41 -0000 Status: RO >I live in England, where we have had fluoride in the water for some time. A few years after it had been introduced, my dentist told me that he had revisited his old dental school, and the department that taught dentistry for children's teeth now had the problem that there were hardly any cases to be seen, since most children's teeth were now strong and healthy. Do you know any children who drink water regularly ? My kids friends moan like mad if we give them water, I think this is just as likely to be from aspartane as opposed to sugar in squashes & local drinks. My kids don't drink squash (unless home made) due to intolerances & the fact I'm not keen on aspartane in regular doses. I try & have then drink natural juices & water & milk When I was young everyone tended to have filled teeth, my dentist (in England) now sayes these fillings were fashionable 'preventative' filling & generally no needed. My kids have very few fillings. Then again I've not had on in years either, it seems they are far less inclined to fill that previously, I don't drink tap water, but I don't know how much water in veg & tooth cleaning with fluride affect the teeth Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 13:47:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30223 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:47:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3IYda2019689; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:34:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3IVq1T015880; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:31:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Hth1T025426 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:55:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.185] (pm5-185.eos.net [205.133.149.185]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20049 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:55:40 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021203051302.1601.19826.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: jack of all trades, again Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 12:53:07 -0500 Status: RO Michaela: Thanks for the link to your pix! It must be fun to have done that. One last note -- I really loved the costumes they did for the little guy that was, what? Napoleon's brother? Cousin? Or was it Napoleon? I forget, it was just so funny to have a super-short Napoleon! And his costumes, like the wedding outfit on your picture, were so well done! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 14:56:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30562 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:56:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Jp3a2026775; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Jp01T029581; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB3JoN1T029246 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 34394 invoked by uid 1005); 3 Dec 2002 19:50:15 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.095658 secs); 03 Dec 2002 19:50:15 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.095658 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 3 Dec 2002 19:50:14 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021203084656.00a6fd40@blue.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <20021203144738.I47315-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Goller Construction (was: Construction Stumper) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:50:19 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Kohler, though he does have some valuable photos & patterns, should be taken with a grain of salt (especially where he doesn't list his references. :) I don't have a copy myself--could you post pics to a website, or somewhere? I have a microfilm copy of a 16th c. German tailor's book, that I'll look through for examples of goller cuts. Thanks, Drea On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > It's been easily 6 years since I did any study in this area and 3 years > since I've looked at a German pattern. I'll answer what I can. > > At 09:49 PM 12/2/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >My questions are: > > > > 1. Is there a relationship between the pattern on the left and > > right, or are these two different patterns for a goller? > > Two different ones. The pattern on the left is supposed to be a gollar > with a standing collar. The right is for a gollar with a shawl (rolled) > collar. Whether either of these will make the garments is subject to > debate >; ) > > >2. Which side is the front and which is the back? > > The left side is the front on both figures. > > >3. Where does the oblong piece referred to in the text get inserted? > > The figure on the left shows a fish eye dart being taken out which makes > sense. The one gollar I've seen made from this particular pattern used a > dart which was rounded. I think it's a translation error. > > >4. Why does he say the part round the neck is not sewn on separately, > >but then says the standup collar is formed by inserting an oblong piece > >between the ends that extended upward in front? > > Same as above. > > The provenance of those patterns is up for debate as far as I'm concerned. > I remember something about Kohler being originally a 9 vol study that was > condensed into 1 book. I'm sure someone with a better memory can fill in > the blanks I'm missing. > > Back to the 19th & 20th c. for me >; ) > > > Gwyn Carnegie > University of California at Davis > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 14:58:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30569 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:58:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Jw3a2027630; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Jw14a003070; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3JvH4a002563 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:57:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6K0051D7D0MZ@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:55:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DED0C0A.9090803@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 References: <20021203190010.2283.81608.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1519 - 2 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:54:50 -0600 Status: RO > > Message: 1 > From: "Melanie Wilson" > > Do you know any children who drink water regularly ? > > My kids friends moan like mad if we give them water, I think this is just as > likely to be from aspartane as opposed to sugar in squashes & local drinks. > > My kids don't drink squash (unless home made) due to intolerances & the fact > I'm not keen on aspartane in regular doses. I try & have then drink natural > juices & water & milk > > When I was young everyone tended to have filled teeth, my dentist (in > England) now sayes these fillings were fashionable 'preventative' filling & > generally no needed. My kids have very few fillings. Then again I've not had > on in years either, it seems they are far less inclined to fill that > previously, I don't drink tap water, but I don't know how much water in veg > & tooth cleaning with fluride affect the teeth > > Mel Actually my children and grandchildren for that matter were/are given water to drink from infancy. Adequate water is crucial to healthy development. We simply did not give them any other option such as juice or milk when they would say they were thirsty. They received juice with breakfast, and milk with the other meals. And what is squash? :D (here in the states it is considered a vegetable, you cook and eat it ) -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 17:12:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31371 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:12:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3MC9a2010745; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:12:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3MC0Gt017038; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3MBuGt016997 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:11:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-uive8jh.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.34.113] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JLGl-00063w-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:11:55 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021202101036.0344feb8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Opposite Direction Plaits? (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Eowyn Costume uploaded:) ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 10:16:08 -0500 Status: RO On 3 Dec 2002 00:26:00 +1300, "michaela" wrote: >I learnt a very good trick from the make up team on Xena/JoAT: >Make four french plaits, two outer that go round the hair line, and in >opposite direction, two inner also alternating. Do you mean one starting from the crown/hairline going to the nape of the neck and the other starting from the nape of the neck going to the crown/hairline, or one underbraided and one overbraided, or something else? >Then you wrap the ends in the spaces between the rows. They flatten down >very well and the rows are excellent for anchoring the pins through. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 17:37:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31465 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:37:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Mb2a2013663; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Mb1Gt000760; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3MakGt000588 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:36:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JLej-0001Qi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:36:41 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Construction stumper (puzzle)-more questions Message-ID: <000901c29b1c$75bf8330$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29AE1.C960AB30" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021203084656.00a6fd40@blue.ucdavis.edu> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:36:45 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29AE1.C960AB30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, I am with you up to this point. 3. Where does the oblong piece referred to in the text get inserted? The figure on the left shows a fish eye dart being taken out which makes sense. The one gollar I've seen made from this particular pattern used a dart which was rounded. I think it's a translation error. Do I understand correctly that you think the dart should be more oval shaped rather than sharp angles? 4. Why does he say the part round the neck is not sewn on separately, but then says the standup collar is formed by inserting an oblong piece between the ends that extended upward in front? Here I am confused. I have successfully inserted a piece in the one on the right to get a stand up collar, but the shape is not what I would call oblong. Do you think he intended this one to not have a stand up collar (any collar at all) and just the shawl lapels? I have also sewn the one up on the left but the collar the way it is drafted sits very oddly-shifts it too far back on the shoulders. And I am still confused where the oblong piece is intended to go if it doesn't go in the one on the right. The provenance of those patterns is up for debate as far as I'm concerned. I remember something about Kohler being originally a 9 vol study that was condensed into 1 book. I'm sure someone with a better memory can fill in the blanks I'm missing. Does anyone know anyone that has the original? I guess at least I can say I went through the exercise of trying to make it 'the way they 'really did it', but in the end I will probably just use my own pattern. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29AE1.C960AB30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Okay, I am with you up to this = point.  

3.      Where does the oblong piece referred to in the text get = inserted?


The figure on the left shows a fish eye dart being taken out which makes = sense. The one gollar I've seen made from this particular pattern used a dart = which was rounded. I think it's a translation error.
Do I understand correctly = that you think the dart should be more oval shaped rather than sharp = angles?

4.      Why does he say the part round the neck is not sewn on separately, but then says the standup collar is formed by inserting an = oblong piece between the ends that extended upward in front?

Here I am confused.  I have successfully inserted a = piece in the one on the right to get a stand up collar, but the shape is not what = I would call oblong.   Do you think he intended this one to not have a = stand up collar (any collar at all) and just the shawl lapels?  I have also sewn the one up on = the left but the collar the way it is drafted sits very oddly-shifts it too far = back on the shoulders.  =

And I am still confused where the = oblong piece is intended to go if it doesn’t go in the one on the = right.

The provenance of those patterns is up for debate as far as I'm = concerned. I remember something about Kohler being originally a 9 vol study that was condensed into 1 book. I'm sure someone with a better memory can fill in = the blanks I'm missing.

 

Does anyone know anyone that has = the original?

I guess at least I can say I went through the exercise of trying to make = it ‘the way they ‘really did it’, but in the end I will probably = just use my own pattern.



------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29AE1.C960AB30-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 17:47:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31497 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:47:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Mh2a2014300; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3Mh1Gt004450; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3MgtGt004408 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:42:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JLkk-00023l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:42:54 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000e01c29b1d$54231f60$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021202101036.0344feb8@mail.earthlink.net> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Does anyone live near Warwick Castle?? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:42:53 -0700 Status: RO Apparently there is a portrait of Anne of Cleves' sister Sybilla, the Electress of Saxony in the 'Blue Boudoir' at Warwick Castle. The 'information people' said they were not aware of any reproductions (I have a drawing of it, but it isn't in color) of this portrait (it is by Cranach, shows her standing in full "crany" dress with her son). I would be beholden to anyone that can easily get there for a snapshot (if they even let you do that). Sg :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 18:12:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31570 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:12:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3NA6a2016856; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:10:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3NA1Gt018598; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3N9NGt018307 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18JMAJ-0004qR-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 23:09:19 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Subject: [h-cost] Swaddling Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:07:41 +0000 Status: RO Re recent conversations about swaddling - did you pick up this news story? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2534113.stm To summarise, researchers found that, when babies get to around 2 months, parents often lay them to sleep on their fronts because they sleep better. Laying babies on their back is recommended to prevent cot death. So they did a study with babies lying on their backs, swaddled or unswaddled, and monitoring breathing, REM etc. They found that the swaddled babies woke less often and less fully. I still can't picture a "specially designed cotton spandex swaddle", though! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 18:23:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31599 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:23:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3NG3a2017459; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3NG0Gt021556; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3NFpGt021488 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:15:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from ANALYSIS.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.86]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id gB3NFnx13092 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:15:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021203144749.02de2008@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: RE: [h-cost] Construction stumper (puzzle)-more questions In-Reply-To: <000901c29b1c$75bf8330$6601a8c0@mycomputer> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021203084656.00a6fd40@blue.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_25755031==_.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 15:10:03 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_25755031==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:36 PM 12/3/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Okay, I am with you up to this point. > >3. Where does the oblong piece referred to in the text get inserted? > >The figure on the left shows a fish eye dart being taken out which makes >sense. The one gollar I've seen made from this particular pattern used a >dart which was rounded. I think it's a translation error. >Do I understand correctly that you think the dart should be more oval >shaped rather than sharp angles? It's whatever shape works best, honestly. Draping is your friend. If you have a dress form, use a mid weight woven to make a mock up. Pin the CF, CB and then slit for the dart and play with it after getting the dimension for your form right. I do remember that the gollar on the left was over large as shown. >4. Why does he say the part round the neck is not sewn on separately, >but then says the standup collar is formed by inserting an oblong piece >between the ends that extended upward in front? > >Here I am confused. I have successfully inserted a piece in the one on >the right to get a stand up collar, but the shape is not what I would call >oblong. Do you think he intended this one to not have a stand up collar >(any collar at all) and just the shawl lapels? Maybe. If you remove the insert and close, do you get a rolled collar? Give it a try on a dress form. >I have also sewn the one up on the left but the collar the way it is >drafted sits very oddly-shifts it too far back on the shoulders. Try working the pattern in half on a dress form and you'll find that you trim a bit off the back but also be aware that to get the right shape, it does sit a ways off the nape of the neck (which bugs me to no end). >And I am still confused where the oblong piece is intended to go if it >doesn t go in the one on the right. I have no idea. If you take out an oblong dart length wise on the standing collar, you get a rolled collar effect. I do think it was a translation error. Personally, I stay away from Kohler, especially when it comes to technical details. I think Drea said mentioned that too. >The provenance of those patterns is up for debate as far as I'm concerned. >I remember something about Kohler being originally a 9 vol study that was >condensed into 1 book. I'm sure someone with a better memory can fill in >the blanks I'm missing. I think Drea has a copy of the Innsbruck manuscript (there are 4 pattern manuals from the period). I'd look at the pattern layouts for garment with collars from that period and a little later. >Does anyone know anyone that has the original? I haven't seen it. I believe it's German as well. >I guess at least I can say I went through the exercise of trying to make >it the way they really did it , but in the end I will probably just use my >own pattern. LOL at least you didn't try to use Kohler's women's bodice from the period. I remember it was a big ol' mess too >; ) Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_25755031==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 03:36 PM 12/3/2002 -0700, you wrote:

Okay, I am with you up to this point. 

3.      Where does the oblong piece referred to in the text get inserted?

The figure on the left shows a fish eye dart being taken out which makes sense. The one gollar I've seen made from this particular pattern used a dart which was rounded. I think it's a translation error.
Do I understand correctly that you think the dart should be more oval shaped rather than sharp angles?

It's whatever shape works best, honestly.
Draping is your friend. If you have a dress form, use a mid weight woven to make a mock up. Pin the CF, CB and then slit for the dart and play with it after getting the dimension for your form right. I do remember that the gollar on the left was over large as shown.

4.      Why does he say the part round the neck is not sewn on separately, but then says the standup collar is formed by inserting an oblong piece between the ends that extended upward in front?

Here I am confused.  I have successfully inserted a piece in the one on the right to get a stand up collar, but the shape is not what I would call oblong. Do you think he intended this one to not have a stand up collar (any collar at all) and just the shawl lapels? 

Maybe. If you remove the insert and close, do you get a rolled collar? Give it a try on a dress form.

I have also sewn the one up on the left but the collar the way it is drafted sits very oddly-shifts it too far back on the shoulders. 

Try working the pattern in half on a dress form and you'll find that you trim a bit off the back but also be aware that to get the right shape, it does sit a ways off the nape of the neck (which bugs me to no end).

And I am still confused where the oblong piece is intended to go if it doesn t go in the one on the right.

I have no idea. If you take out an oblong dart length wise on the standing collar, you get a rolled collar effect. I do think it was a translation error.  Personally, I stay away from Kohler, especially when it comes to technical details. I think Drea said mentioned that too.

The provenance of those patterns is up for debate as far as I'm concerned. I remember something about Kohler being originally a 9 vol study that was condensed into 1 book. I'm sure someone with a better memory can fill in the blanks I'm missing.

I think Drea has a copy of the Innsbruck manuscript (there are 4 pattern manuals from the period). I'd look at the pattern layouts for garment with collars from that period and a little later.

Does anyone know anyone that has the original?

I haven't seen it. I believe it's German as well.

I guess at least I can say I went through the exercise of trying to make it the way they really did it , but in the end I will probably just use my own pattern.

LOL  at least you didn't try to use Kohler's women's bodice from the period. I remember it was a big ol' mess too >; )

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_25755031==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 18:26:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31614 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:26:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3NR2a2018413; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3NR1Gt028402; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3NQZGt028179 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:26:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip197.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.197]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB3NQSZ18080 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:26:28 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Swaddling Message-ID: <3DECCC76.7531.1E106357@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 15:23:34 -0800 Status: RO > Re recent conversations about swaddling - did you pick up this news > story? > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2534113.stm > > To summarise, researchers found that, when babies get to around 2 > months, parents often lay them to sleep on their fronts because they > sleep better. Laying babies on their back is recommended to prevent > cot death. So they did a study with babies lying on their backs, > swaddled or unswaddled, and monitoring breathing, REM etc. They found > that the swaddled babies woke less often and less fully. > > I still can't picture a "specially designed cotton spandex swaddle", > though! Unfortunately, that means that they don't wake up when they *need* to wake up. It sounds like they need to do some population studies looking at long term effects of swaddling (ie regarding cot death/SIDS). Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 19:56:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32011 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:56:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB40u4a2026384; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:56:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB40u20u010558; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB40t40u010104 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:55:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from p70-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.70] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18JNob-0006dr-00; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 13:55:02 +1300 Message-ID: <007c01c29b2f$c5eae8f0$46cdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <78.31e43be9.2b1df910@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: JoAT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0079_01C29B9C.BC2303D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:54:59 +1300 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C29B9C.BC2303D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <> There were two 'types' of extras on this show: colonial which were of = french/english descent, never did figure that one out.. white European = anyway, and 'Natives' which were all the asian extras that coudl be = found (Along with some translators as some did not have a good grasp of = english). East Indies, not West Indies:)=20 michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C29B9C.BC2303D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<<Thanks for the first-hand reports of the = show. =20 But I thought some episodes were set in the Caribbean?  In which = case the=20 "many years out of date" doesn't wash.  But, I confess, I only = watched it a=20 couple of times--didn't find it nearly as entertaining as I had hoped = from the=20 promos.
Ann Wass>>
 
There were two 'types' of extras on this show: = colonial which=20 were of french/english descent, never did figure that one out.. white = European=20 anyway, and 'Natives' which were all the asian extras that coudl be = found (Along=20 with some translators as some did not have a good grasp of=20 english).
 
East Indies, not West Indies:)
 
michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.n= z/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/cost= ume
------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C29B9C.BC2303D0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 20:00:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32032 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:00:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4111a2026722; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB41110u012329; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB410Z0u012153 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:00:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from p70-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.70] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18JNtx-0000vj-00; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:00:34 +1300 Message-ID: <007d01c29b30$8cd1f260$46cdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jack of all trades, again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:00:31 +1300 Status: RO Margo, JoAT is short for Jack of All Trades, the short lived series to fill in after Hercules finished. > Thanks for the link to your pix! It must be fun to have done that. It was:) It was really fun, and Stuart Devinie as Croque had such a dry wit. > One last note -- I really loved the costumes they did for the little guy > that was, what? Napoleon's brother? Cousin? Or was it Napoleon? I forget, it > was just so funny to have a super-short Napoleon! And his costumes, like the > wedding outfit on your picture, were so well done! Yeah it was Vern Troyer as Napoleon:) That costume was just a fantastic confection;) He really did look like a lolly all wrapped up in pink and tinsel;) One of his body doubles (actually he was on set a few times for second unit as for close up work you just can't find a good double) was a two year old toddler:) He was so cute when we were doing a scene (the American Football scene I mentioned earlier) as he was so young he didn't really understand the need to follow directions;) michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 20:45:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32287 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:45:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB41jAa2029696; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:45:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB41j10u027678; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB41ie0u027544 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:44:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <20021204014434051007tbdte>; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:44:35 +0000 Message-ID: <003101c29b36$b2d72a60$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Arizona costumer for hire? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:44:34 -0800 Status: RO Hello all! I have a male friend who lives just outside of Phoenix, who is looking for a costumer to make him a men's Regency outfit. Is there anyone on the list who is located in Arizona (he'd be willing to travel as far as Tucson for fittings etc.) who's good with male clothing of this period? Please contact me off-list and I'll put you in touch! Thanks, Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 20:51:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32321 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:51:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB41q1a2000313; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB41q00u029904; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (relay01.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB41pa0u029774 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:51:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 21925 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2002 01:51:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.206.31]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 4 Dec 2002 01:51:35 -0000 Message-ID: <001d01c29b37$be95f380$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20021202002823.00cb9210@mail.frys.com> <00a201c299de$37e43f90$a7c0adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] What to Wear to a Unicorn Hunt Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:52:03 -0500 Status: RO I'm an Internet Member of the Metropolitan Museum, and they send email on different events. The Cloisters portion of the Met (which I have never yet actually made it to) was included in the email on Christmas events: http://www.metmuseum.org/now_at_the_met_cloisters.htm There is a new section up on the Unicorn Tapestries http://www.metmuseum.org/explore/Unicorn/unicorn_inside.htm This includes a section entitled What to Wear to a Unicorn Hunt, and includes some closeups and commentaries of the clothes: http://www.metmuseum.org/explore/Unicorn/unicorn_clothing.htm Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 21:13:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32401 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:13:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB42E3a2001619; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:14:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB42E10u006830; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB42Do0u006768 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:13:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.176] (pm5-176.eos.net [205.133.149.176]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21463 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:13:46 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021203172401.7242.79654.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] I dont' know what to head this Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 21:11:11 -0500 Status: RO Hello all -- On a total tangent here -- I discovered something when looking at the wonderful Swiss page Cass posted. When I looked at the picture of the beautiful gowns, I noticed for the first time how much this style emphasizes the curve at the small of the woman's back, which Robin Netherton has so often reminded us is apparently very attractive to gentlemen. I guess I haven't seen too many of these gowns in person or from the right angle -- let's face it, in films and on stage, the bust or the entire front view is usually emphasized. But here you can see what a lovely curved shape these gowns have in the back. Just a random thought -- Gail finke > She gave me the website of the guy (Johannes Pietsch) who helped restore the > pieces on display for this exhibit (and who would be teaching that class to > make the men's lederkoller). I went to his site and he actually has the > pattern for the one men's slit jacket pictured on my website. > > http://www.kostuemforschung.de/1207.html > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 21:35:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32453 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:35:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB42a3a2002779; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB42a10u013667; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB42Zm0u013579 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:35:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB42vaYc004513; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:57:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gB42va4U004511; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:57:36 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Kirrily Robert Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body typeperiods) User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20021127.094916.-153497.2.Cley@juno.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200212032157.36311.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB42Zm0u013579 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:57:36 -0500 Status: RO On Wednesday 27 November 2002 02:07 pm, Kirrily Robert wrote: > Robin wrote: >[text cut here] > At the Royal Ontario Museum the other day, I noticed they had some teeny > tiny little scoops in the Coptic Egypt display. They said, however, > that the scoops were used for getting perfumed ointment out of jars. > This seems like a not-improbable use for such scoops. > > I was also reading a book on needlework tools and accessories, and there > were many examples of stilettos -- spikes for poking holes in fabric for > eyelets, etc. These were often found in collections of needlework > tools, and could be made of bone, metal, etc. So that's a alternative > possibility for the "toothpicks". > > On another note, I believe earscoops are used in the present day by some > Asian cultures. I used to share a house with a Malaysian guy who said > that he thought they were cool, and older relatives of his (father? > grandmother?) had or used them, and I think he might have mentioned that > you could pick them up in chinatown if you looked in the right place. I've seen people clean their ears with the ends of paper clips...it's not hard for me to imagine them using a small spoon designed (or even not designed) for the job. -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 22:57:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00332 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 22:57:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB43w3a2007724; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB43w10u008557; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB43v90u008286 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:57:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JQer-0000tb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 19:57:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3DED7D18.4030500@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exhibit 16th-17th century clothing Munich Catalog Update References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 22:57:12 -0500 Status: RO this book is to DIE FOR!!! should we mention the scaled patterns in the back...my husband was looking at the lederkoller and thinking about the 2 sides of clothing weight leather in the barn... and almost every page has a wonderful color picture of something;-) I almost feel like I have been there and seen the exhibit. The only thing I am seriously miffed about is we are going to Bavaria to visit Christian in the spring when ROb can get leave from his boat...and the exhibit will be closed ;-( So, you live anywhere near Gaertringen...? grin margali Cassandra Greer wrote: > Hey if he will do this then I would do it too! Several people have already > done it through me but they are being shipped by boat.... > > Cass :) > > PS seeeeee! Someone else knows how cool this book is too! :))) > > >>Well, if Cassandra takes the money and buys the books, and gets >>them to Christian, and he puts them in his flight bag and hand >>delivers them to me in January... >> >>margali _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Dec 3 23:02:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00355 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:02:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB43x0a2007776; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB43x00u008863; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB43wf0u008761 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:58:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JQgK-0002kE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 19:58:40 -0800 Message-ID: <3DED7D73.604@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating References: <20021203142611.238E91E2349@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 22:58:43 -0500 Status: RO I can understand that;-) I find it overwhelming and I am one of the serious oldtimers from the list! margali jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > M Traber wrote : > > >>You on the SCA-cooks list? >>margali >> > > I have been, but couldn't keep up with the traffic. Too much of it was either SCA-specific, or USA-specific, and thus classed as "noise" from my POV. Wonderful group of knowledgable people, though. > > The Godecookery list is what I'm on: much more subject-specific. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 00:02:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00524 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:02:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4527a2011571; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 22:02:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB45200u028113; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 22:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from infoblvd.net (infoblvd.net [216.42.64.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB451L0u027883 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 22:01:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from straight [216.42.67.162] by infoblvd.net (SMTPD32-7.12) id AC20C98100F4; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 00:01:20 -0500 Message-ID: <00ce01c29b54$209fd8e0$a2432ad8@infoblvd.net> From: "STRAIGHT " To: References: <20021203142611.238E91E2349@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> <3DED7D73.604@Spamcop.Net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating and cold weather MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:15:08 -0500 Status: RO <<<<>>>> Oh, I remember you from there. I got off it too, partly because of the volume, but more because every time anybody said anything the only responses were "replied to privately" or "refer to the Florilegeum". It was like no conversation or information was allowed. The SCA Humor list was hilarious, wonderful-----and unfortunately a major source of virusii. Weather is down to 10 below again tonight. F. A couple of days ago it was just above freezing and rained for 2 days steady. Got out the heavy coats today, and remembered that capes actually were meant to go over a coat, not be just worn by themselves. A good cape will catch the drizzle and can be easily taken off when entering a cool building or vehicle. The coat underneath is still dry and warm. Then there's the hood effect. Put the thing up FIRST, not after it's full of water or snow, and dumps it down your neck. The draped ones look lovely in pictures, but scoop the wind around your head like a wind tunnel. Cold! Diane S.----hunting up my velvet dresses and skirts today, and a taffeta petticoat underneath is pretty windproof too. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 01:11:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA00705 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:11:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB46C3a2014930; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB46C10u017740; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB46Ba0u017592 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:11:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a24.in-tch.com [66.62.107.4]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB45tYD19853 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 22:55:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DED9CA8.72AC8C6C@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating and cold weather References: <20021203142611.238E91E2349@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> <3DED7D73.604@Spamcop.Net> <00ce01c29b54$209fd8e0$a2432ad8@infoblvd.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 23:11:52 -0700 Status: RO Good lord, I don't know when you were on, but I've certainly never seen a lack of info-sharing and conversation on that list. Sometimes, I know folks refer to the Florilegium (very handy, that), because some topics tend to occur, and re-occur, and re-re-occur, just like they do here, and many times, the answers are already in a file somewhere in the Florilegium. To get this back from the dangerous shoals of talking too much about sca-related stuff, and into the safer waters of costuming.....I note that you're talking about cold weather. It sounds almost like you're combining costume and non-costume elements to stay warm. Where are you, by the way? We've had a couple of weeks of nothing but sub-freezing temps and ice fogs. Ugh. Very dreary. I've been starting on my winter projects--I'm making a fitted gown for an upcoming competition, learning tablet-weaving, and planning on getting around to making some garments inspired by the ones in the Mannesse Codex (for next summer's tourney season). What's everyone else doing? --sue STRAIGHT wrote: > > <<<< the serious oldtimers from the list! > margali>>>>> > > Oh, I remember you from there. I got off it too, partly because of the > volume, but more because every time anybody said anything the only responses > were "replied to privately" or "refer to the Florilegeum". It was like no > conversation or information was allowed. > The SCA Humor list was hilarious, wonderful-----and unfortunately a > major source of virusii. > Weather is down to 10 below again tonight. F. A couple of days ago it > was just above freezing and rained for 2 days steady. Got out the heavy > coats today, and remembered that capes actually were meant to go over a > coat, not be just worn by themselves. > A good cape will catch the drizzle and can be easily taken off when > entering a cool building or vehicle. The coat underneath is still dry and > warm. > Then there's the hood effect. Put the thing up FIRST, not after it's > full of water or snow, and dumps it down your neck. > The draped ones look lovely in pictures, but scoop the wind around your > head like a wind tunnel. Cold! > > Diane S.----hunting up my velvet dresses and skirts today, and a taffeta > petticoat underneath is pretty windproof too. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 01:18:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA00712 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:18:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB46IMa2015246; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:18:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB46IM0u019441; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:18:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB46HB0u019123 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:17:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <20021204061706002000uue7e>; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 06:17:06 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c29b5c$c50e7230$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 22:17:05 -0800 Status: RO I've finally finished my current project, which is based on the 1874-77 afternoon dress from _Patterns of Fashions_. I used the skirt pattern from that dress, and changed the bodice from an afternoon to a reception style. I did have some train trauma, so I'll be reworking the skirt! http://demode.tweedlebop.com/bustle.html - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 01:50:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA00770 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:50:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB46p1a2016548; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB46p00u027690; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB46oa0u027597 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:50:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a24.in-tch.com [66.62.107.4]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB46YdD02618 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:34:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEDA5D0.EAA1CF59@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress References: <001501c29b5c$c50e7230$befc8218@hopperflop2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 23:50:56 -0700 Status: RO Oooooh! I gotta admit, I don't know nuttin about the clothing of your time period, but it sure looks good! How fun! And where_ever_ did you find the striped satin? That stuff was completely cool..... --sue Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > I've finally finished my current project, which is based on the 1874-77 > afternoon dress from _Patterns of Fashions_. I used the skirt pattern from > that dress, and changed the bodice from an afternoon to a reception style. > I did have some train trauma, so I'll be reworking the skirt! > > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/bustle.html > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 02:19:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA11140 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 02:19:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB47K3a2017729; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB47K10u004744; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB47Jj0u004664 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:19:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 521 invoked by uid 0); 4 Dec 2002 07:19:39 -0000 Received: from pd9e4f29b.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.228.242.155) by mail.gmx.net (mp014-rz3) with SMTP; 4 Dec 2002 07:19:39 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exhibit 16th-17th century clothing Munich Catalog Update From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3DED7D18.4030500@Spamcop.Net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 08:19:41 +0100 Status: RO When in spring? The exhibit might be extended to the middle of March Cass :) > this book is to DIE FOR!!! > should we mention the scaled patterns in the back...my husband > was looking at the lederkoller and thinking about the 2 sides of > clothing weight leather in the barn... > and almost every page has a wonderful color picture of > something;-) I almost feel like I have been there and seen the > exhibit. The only thing I am seriously miffed about is we are > going to Bavaria to visit Christian in the spring when ROb can > get leave from his boat...and the exhibit will be closed ;-( pout> > > So, you live anywhere near Gaertringen...? grin > > margali > > Cassandra Greer wrote: > >> Hey if he will do this then I would do it too! Several people have already >> done it through me but they are being shipped by boat.... >> >> Cass :) >> >> PS seeeeee! Someone else knows how cool this book is too! :))) >> >> >>> Well, if Cassandra takes the money and buys the books, and gets >>> them to Christian, and he puts them in his flight bag and hand >>> delivers them to me in January... >>> >>> margali > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 02:40:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA24191 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 02:40:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB47f2a2018557; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB47f10u009937; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB47e10u009684 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-104-10.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.104.10]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANI30750; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:37:54 GMT Message-ID: <007201c29b69$088069e0$0a684ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <001501c29b5c$c50e7230$befc8218@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:44:52 -0000 Status: RO Well done. I shouldn't worry about you skirt getting trodden on whilst it is a pain, it seems to be totally unavoidable, unless you have your skirts too high for authenticity which looks aweful. I used to be really devestated every time it happened, but now I've got very quick to recognise the tug on a skirt stepped & swiftly back up to avoid damage :) and really good a repairing the damage ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 02:52:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA31833 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 02:52:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB47r3a2019295; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:53:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB47r00u013137; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB47qK0u013002 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:52:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from p15-max11.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.214.143] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18JUKQ-0003kZ-00; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 20:52:19 +1300 Message-ID: <001501c29b6a$1112f950$8fd6adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <001501c29b5c$c50e7230$befc8218@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:52:16 +1300 Status: RO > I've finally finished my current project, which is based on the 1874-77 > afternoon dress from _Patterns of Fashions_. I used the skirt pattern from > that dress, and changed the bodice from an afternoon to a reception style. > I did have some train trauma, so I'll be reworking the skirt! > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/bustle.html Oooh, love how you cut the darts into the stripes, and I think the black sleeves with the stripes cuffs works very well indeed in bringing the skirt and bodice to match:) Especially as I've seen a number of bodices that have contrasting sleeves that appear to be made from the skirt bodyfabric:) :) I also know someone who is going to absolutely love this as she has a mad passion for black and white stripes in the bustle era;) I know yours are cream but still;) I really have to find a group here that focuses on an era besides quasi medieval;) I just have no whre to where costumes from my favrouite era: late 1870s-1880s michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 03:15:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17367 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 03:15:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB48F8a2020142; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB48F10u018721; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB48Em0u018640 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:14:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021204081448.97777.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 08:14:48 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001501c29b5c$c50e7230$befc8218@hopperflop2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:14:48 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > I've finally finished my current project, which is based on the 1874-77 > afternoon dress from _Patterns of Fashions_. I used the skirt pattern from > that dress, and changed the bodice from an afternoon to a reception style. > I did have some train trauma, so I'll be reworking the skirt! > > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/bustle.html COOL! That looks really lovely Kendra. The striped bodice is indeed gorgeous. :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 03:25:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27244 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 03:25:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB48Q3a2020547; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB48Q20u021787; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB48PS0u021582 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:25:28 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021204082527.66527.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 08:25:27 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exhibit 16th-17th century clothing Munich Catalog Update To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DED7D18.4030500@Spamcop.Net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:25:27 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- M Traber wrote: > this book is to DIE FOR!!! > should we mention the scaled patterns in the back...my husband > was looking at the lederkoller and thinking about the 2 sides of > clothing weight leather in the barn... > and almost every page has a wonderful color picture of > something;-) HarHarHar may I smugly say that my friend in Aachen ordered one for me and it'll be waitinmg for me when I visit them at Christmas. ;-) Nicole - off in a couple of weeks to the annual Germany visit ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 03:35:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04476 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 03:35:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB48a1a2020874; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB48a00u023950; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB48Zg0u023863 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:35:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021204083542.57776.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 08:35:42 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anyone live near Warwick Castle?? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000e01c29b1d$54231f60$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:35:42 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Apparently there is a portrait of Anne of Cleves' sister Sybilla, the > Electress of Saxony in the 'Blue Boudoir' at Warwick Castle. The > 'information people' said they were not aware of any reproductions (I > have a drawing of it, but it isn't in color) of this portrait (it is by > Cranach, shows her standing in full "crany" dress with her son). While I can't get there easily before March, I went there just 3 weeks ago or so. If you show me a drawing I may at least remember the painting, I have a vague recollection. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 10:20:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13501 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:20:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FJ5a2004374; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FJ14V003404; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m8.bos.untd.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB4FIb4V003188 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:18:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Okbc61fCPswQxoxRfvLgC2E="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HJ7Q3A84; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 10:18:01 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Swaddling Message-ID: <20021204.071904.-153497.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-41 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:05:15 +0000 Status: RO I confess total ignorance when it comes to babies, but isn't a certain amount of crying necessary for the healthy development of an infant's lungs? Arlys On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 15:23:34 -0800 kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > > > Re recent conversations about swaddling - did you pick up this > news > > story? > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2534113.stm > > > > To summarise, researchers found that, when babies get to around 2 > > months, parents often lay them to sleep on their fronts because > they > > sleep better. Laying babies on their back is recommended to > prevent > > cot death. So they did a study with babies lying on their backs, > > swaddled or unswaddled, and monitoring breathing, REM etc. They > found > > that the swaddled babies woke less often and less fully. > > > > I still can't picture a "specially designed cotton spandex > swaddle", > > though! > > Unfortunately, that means that they don't wake up when they *need* > to > wake up. It sounds like they need to do some population studies > looking at long term effects of swaddling (ie regarding cot > death/SIDS). > > Kat Russell > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 10:23:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13514 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:23:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FN1a2004789; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FN04V005178; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FME4V004865 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:22:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JbLp-0001WB-00; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 07:22:13 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Cc: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Arizona costumer for hire? Message-ID: <000001c29ba8$f0d46ea0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003101c29b36$b2d72a60$befc8218@hopperflop2> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:22:20 -0700 Status: RO Have him try Mathew Gnagy at Desert Torch Tailoring http://www.deserttorch.com/- I'd love to do it myself, but since I have a real job that limits my time it is difficult for me to commit to a schedule. Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Kendra Van Cleave >Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 6:45 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Arizona costumer for hire? > >Hello all! > >I have a male friend who lives just outside of Phoenix, who is looking for a >costumer to make him a men's Regency outfit. Is there anyone on the list >who is located in Arizona (he'd be willing to travel as far as Tucson for >fittings etc.) who's good with male clothing of this period? > >Please contact me off-list and I'll put you in touch! > >Thanks, > >Kendra > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 10:28:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13546 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:28:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FS6a2005864; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FS24V007497; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net (scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FRH4V007031 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:27:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net ([10.116.0.124]) by scanmail4.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:26:24 -0700 Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124] by scanmail4.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AE9F55C10140; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 08:26:23 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Wed, 04 Dec 2002 08:26:23 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Swaddling Message-ID: <004a01c29ba9$c2feec20$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20021204.071904.-153497.0.Cley@juno.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:28:13 -0600 Status: RO I confess total ignorance when it comes to babies, but isn't a certain amount of crying necessary for the healthy development of an infant's lungs? Arlys HA HA HA HA HA HA! You don't know much about babies is right. (inside joke) Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 10:28:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13551 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:28:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FSCa2005895; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:28:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FSC4V007610; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:28:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FRP4V007096 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:27:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JbQr-00008k-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 07:27:25 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] What to Wear to a Unicorn Hunt Message-ID: <000201c29ba9$aac10530$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001d01c29b37$be95f380$01fea8c0@vaio> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:27:33 -0700 Status: RO I missed the original post, but there is a wonderful book which gives great close ups of what folks are wearing in the tapestries. The Unicorn Tapestries by Adolfo Salvatore Cavallo-ISBN 0-87099-868-4. I am working on a men's outfit for my husband (who swears he won't wear it!!) I shall prevail! Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Rowena >Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 6:52 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] What to Wear to a Unicorn Hunt > >I'm an Internet Member of the Metropolitan Museum, and they send email on >different events. The Cloisters portion of the Met (which I have never yet >actually made it to) was included in the email on Christmas events: >http://www.metmuseum.org/now_at_the_met_cloisters.htm > There is a new section up on the Unicorn Tapestries >http://www.metmuseum.org/explore/Unicorn/unicorn_inside.htm >This includes a section entitled What to Wear to a Unicorn Hunt, and >includes some closeups and commentaries of the clothes: >http://www.metmuseum.org/explore/Unicorn/unicorn_clothing.htm >Rowena > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 10:55:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13661 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:55:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FeWkJ008880; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:49:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4EC10u011177; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4EB40u010966 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:11:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gB4EDlF01590.; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:13:47 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:11:00 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] O.T.Fluoride/Teeth, was Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1519 - 2 msgs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB4EB40u010966 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:10:56 +0000 Status: RO Linda Thompson wrote: >And what is squash? :D (here in the states it is considered a vegetable, >you cook and eat it ) -- I think we've been here before! To Britons, squash is a fruit concentrate which you drink diluted with water. The vegetable of that name isn't widely known here. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 10:56:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13665 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:56:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FeWuv008880; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4C600u009950; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 05:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4C5v0u009933 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 05:05:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from p15-max11.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.214.143] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18JYHr-0001kp-00; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 01:05:56 +1300 Message-ID: <012401c29b8d$7c4cd7e0$8fd6adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20021204083542.57776.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anyone live near Warwick Castle?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:05:48 +1300 Status: RO > --- Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Apparently there is a > portrait of Anne of Cleves' sister Sybilla, the > > Electress of Saxony in the 'Blue Boudoir' at Warwick Castle. The > > 'information people' said they were not aware of any reproductions (I > > have a drawing of it, but it isn't in color) of this portrait (it is by > > Cranach, shows her standing in full "crany" dress with her son). > > While I can't get there easily before March, I went there just 3 weeks ago or > so. If you show me a drawing I may at least remember the painting, I have a > vague recollection. http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/victalb/2mill1.htm mentions this painting, doesn't say anything about the costume but I thought it might be of some help in some small way:) michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 10:57:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13669 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:57:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FeWrF008880; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:54:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Ca10u016780; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 05:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4CZf0u016715 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 05:35:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JYkf-0003ui-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 04:35:41 -0800 Message-ID: <3DEDF699.40004@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exhibit 16th-17th century clothing Munich Catalog Update References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 07:35:37 -0500 Status: RO that is the problem...he is military and everything depends on his boat's deployment schedule. Me personally? I would chuck my job in a heartbeat and move to germany if I had a source of income, or rather france as I speak french [though i am learning to read and write in german as a side effect of helping christian with his english;-)] We are trying for march, as I miss good deep snow because connecticut is coastal and really doesn't get the type of snow I grew up with;-( and if that doesn't work out late april. margali Cassandra Greer wrote: > When in spring? The exhibit might be extended to the middle of March > > Cass :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 10:57:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13673 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:57:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FeWpx008880; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4D670u023501; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 06:06:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB3HUT1T011069 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:30:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA24420 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:30:26 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000401c29af2$10cb0960$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: References: <700D29BDA652D411A77400A0CC2195F56D390E@NAPOLEON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute "Fashion" book arrived!! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:33:16 -0600 Status: RO My copy of "Fashion" arrived yesterday. I got my copy through Barnes and Noble website: the title there is "Evolution in Fashion" Cost is $32.00 + ship which is only $3.99 for standard ship; free if you order two or more books. Although not an essential purchase for those who own the 1980 "Evolution in Fashion" or the 1989 "Revolution in Fashion", there are beautiful pics of fashions from both those eras KCI has added to their collection since both those exibitions. Please restrain yourselves from literally drooling over the matchless color pics throughout the 700+ pages of fashions, mostly women's. Lovers of the fashions of Worth, Poiret, Fortuny, and Vionnent should be especially pleased. You will love or hate the late 20th fashion coverage, depending on what you think of this era. There is, of course, an emphasis on Japanese designers in the '80's through 2000 fashions shown, but there are some really extreme "stuff" too! I have posted a brief review on bn.com which should appear by Friday. I did omit mention in my review of the capsule "bibs" of designers and houses, a terminology mini dictionary and the bibliography at the end of the book. An exhibition catalog is listed in the bibliography that apparently no library owns and isn't listed as available on the KCI website. It is entitled "Charles Frederick Worth" -- an exibition of his work done by the KCI in 2000. If anyone knows more about this catalog, let me know. Thanks, Cindy Abel brujne@creighton.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 10:58:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13679 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:58:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FeWux008880; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:55:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4C110u008886; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 05:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4C0f0u008788 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 05:00:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JYCn-0004YQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 04:00:41 -0800 Message-ID: <3DEDEE68.9090606@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating and cold weather References: <20021203142611.238E91E2349@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> <3DED7D73.604@Spamcop.Net> <00ce01c29b54$209fd8e0$a2432ad8@infoblvd.net> <3DED9CA8.72AC8C6C@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 07:00:40 -0500 Status: RO well, i am beading a forepart - nothing too fancy, a cream fabric with a very square geometric an dlittle clusters of dots that were just begging to be beaded. i am using topaz colored beads so i can wear it with my favorite topaz earrings under a black outer bodice and skirt. I hope it will be done in time ;-( Also, again off topic, anybody have any info on how christian can make a call to me from germany? i think the us prefix is '1', but does he dial just the '1' or is there a code to get an out of the country line to use? margali, warm in ct - i have a woodstove;-) Sue Clemenger wrote: I'm making a fitted gown for an upcoming competition, learning > tablet-weaving, and planning on getting around to making some garments > inspired by the ones in the Mannesse Codex (for next summer's tourney > season). What's everyone else doing? > --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 10:58:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13683 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:58:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FqSgE005010; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:55:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Bg10u004449; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 04:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta06bw.bigpond.com (mta06bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Bfv0u004400 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 04:41:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.87]) by mta06bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta06bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H6LF5Q00.A3I for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:41:50 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.46 ([203.54.114.46]) by bwmam07.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2a 56/2456008); 04 Dec 2002 21:41:45 Message-ID: <3DEED96F.60BEA908@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Teeth Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 20:43:27 -0800 Status: RO Serendipitously, given the recent discussion of teeth, I just came across this: "To cleanse and make them white (ie teeth). Take the root of mallows and rub thy teeth and thy gums therewith. And after that take a rough cloth and rub thy thy teeth therewith. If thou washest thy mouth with water or with wine that titemall, that is spurge, is seethed in, the teeth shall never fall. Knotgrass kneaded and laid to the teeth is a good medicine" >From MS 136 of the Literary Society of London. I think the efficacy of these suggestions would depend very much on the properties of the herbs involved. Rubbing your teeth, especially with an alkaline substance (if mallow is that) would probably help against against plaque, but wouldn't do much for calcified buildups. So a little more on track, what sort of fabric would one use for a tooth cloth? I'd be inclined to say linen because rough wool would seem a bit fuzzy to put in your mouth. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 10:59:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13687 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:59:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FqSfs005010; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Bv10u008087; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 04:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Bui0u007986 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 04:56:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JY8x-0001lJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 03:56:44 -0800 Message-ID: <3DEDED73.4080702@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating and cold weather References: <20021203142611.238E91E2349@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> <3DED7D73.604@Spamcop.Net> <00ce01c29b54$209fd8e0$a2432ad8@infoblvd.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 06:56:35 -0500 Status: RO You might give it a try again, Gunthar cracked down on people. Now, you will get reffered to speciific web pages, stefan's floregelium or cariadocs miscellaney, and people will reply with information in list. Still can be heavy volume. I get it at work so I have something to take my mind off the darker aspects of my job. margali STRAIGHT wrote: > <<<< the serious oldtimers from the list! > margali>>>>> > > Oh, I remember you from there. I got off it too, partly because of the > volume, but more because every time anybody said anything the only responses > were "replied to privately" or "refer to the Florilegeum". It was like no > conversation or information was allowed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 10:59:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13691 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:59:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FqSgO005010; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:55:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB49H00u003332; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 02:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB49GD0u003105 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 02:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id C00001E2573; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:16:10 +0000 (GMT) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anyone live near Warwick Castle?? From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20021204091610.C00001E2573@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:16:10 GMT Status: RO N Kipar wrote : > --- Saragrace Knauf saragrace@earthlink.net> > wrote: > Apparently there is a > portrait of Anne of Cleves' sister Sybilla, the > > Electress of Saxony in the 'Blue Boudoir' at Warwick Castle. > While I can't get there easily before March, I went there just 3 weeks ago > or so. Me too: same weekend as the medieval market. I did visit the Blue Boudoir, but it not being my period, I didn't take much notice :( From what I remember of layout, the average visitor couldn't get near any pictures, a photo would need special arrangements to get beyond barriers If I can find my visitors guide, I'll see if there's a picture of the Boudoir at least. But that's two "if"s. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:00:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13704 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:00:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FeWvL008880; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:55:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4BA00u027142; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 04:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta02bw.bigpond.com ([144.135.24.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4B9P0u027031 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 04:09:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.87]) by mta02bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta02bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H6LDNJ00.2H1 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:09:19 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.46 ([203.54.114.46]) by bwmam07.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2a 56/2413823); 04 Dec 2002 21:09:14 Message-ID: <3DEED1D0.A92622E6@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur and dagging References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 20:10:56 -0800 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > > I'd want to look at a survey of the earliest examples of dagging > > before coming to any certain conclusions, but my impression has been > > that _lined_ dags (whether appearing to be fabric-lined or fur-lined) > > are relatively rare, and that the default is done in plain unlined > > cloth. ... > > Everything Heather said in her post makes sense to me. I think someone > would have to do a systematic comparison of representations of dags in art > as well as in artifacts (with an eye to whether linings may have > disintegrated) before getting much of an idea as to what came first. I > personally would be interested in seeing the sequence of shapes of dags as > well. > I don't know about chronological sequence, but I was looking at dags recently for my new houppelande sleeves. Specifically I was looking for dags on lined but not furlined sleeves. Alas, for my intended purpose I found essentially two kinds: furlined sleeves had very simple dags that were essentially parallel slits in the edge of the sleeve; complicated dags seemed to occur on only unlined fabric. I think I managed to find one instance of a sleeve that didn't seem to be lined with fur and I don't think that had very complex dagging. Admittedly, it wasn't a very exhaustive survey. I assumed at the time that the motives behind this were simply the difficulty in dealing with small complex shapes and a lining, a difficulty I can now well attest to, having decided that despite the evidence I would go ahead and make oakleaf dags in my velvet lined with fine silk sleeves. Sooooo much easier to just cut out the shapes and assume the fulling of the fabric would keep them from fraying.... Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:00:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13708 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:00:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FqSgI005010; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:55:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4B910u026926; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 04:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (mta4-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4B8C0u026700 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 04:08:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.16.179]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021204110811.HCLQ29609.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:08:11 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <7C5A6853-0780-11D7-AB05-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Subject: [h-cost] Nicole,your wig guy.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:04:05 +0000 Status: RO Nicole, Your wig guy is here in the UK isn't he?I tried to track down the archives on the H-List but couldn't find your post with the fellows details.Would you mind passing them on to me. Thanks, Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:00:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13712 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:00:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4FeWvN008880; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:55:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Av10u024257; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 03:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (mta4-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Au80u024072 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 03:56:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.16.179]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021204105606.GYOC29609.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:56:06 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <001501c29b5c$c50e7230$befc8218@hopperflop2> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:51:50 +0000 Status: RO Thats really lovely Kendra and well done! The striped satin silk is a coup! Like Sue,I want to know where you got it - have been looking for something similar for pajama trews myself for months. Congratulations. Marcus. On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 06:17 am, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > I've finally finished my current project, which is based on the 1874-77 > afternoon dress from _Patterns of Fashions_. I used the skirt pattern > from > that dress, and changed the bodice from an afternoon to a reception > style. > I did have some train trauma, so I'll be reworking the skirt! > > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/bustle.html > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:00:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13716 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:00:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Fs2a2012851; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Fs14V021426; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Fqx4V020884 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-2-101.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.2.101] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Jbpa-000640-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 15:52:58 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c29bad$c2edb140$650224d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:56:51 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, There is a huge picture of Arwen in blue at: http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/im age14.shtml from which you will note a bra strap. I think I speak for us all in deploring this... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:10:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13759 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:10:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4G69a2014429; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4G644V027984; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4G5o4V027786 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:05:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-2-101.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.2.101] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Jc21-0004YB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:05:49 +0000 Message-ID: <001f01c29baf$8e503b40$650224d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Huge Costume pictures LOTR & TTT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:09:42 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, I should mention that there are a *lot* of huge pictures at the http://www.warofthering.net/ site, not just Arwen, for people interested in the costume content. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:13:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13771 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:13:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GA3a2014776; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GA24V000359; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail4.kc.rr.com (fe4.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4G9S4V029833 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:09:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis ([65.26.140.179]) by mail4.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:05:00 -0600 From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 In-Reply-To: <000b01c29bad$c2edb140$650224d9@dan> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:12:55 -0600 Status: RO Well, considering that it's supposed to represent fantasy clothing, who can say what the "correct underpinnings" should be? Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Stevie Gamble Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 9:57 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings Hi all, There is a huge picture of Arwen in blue at: http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/im age14.shtml from which you will note a bra strap. I think I speak for us all in deploring this... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:14:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13775 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:14:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GABcs014825; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:11:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4G064V024688; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB4FxT4V024388 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:59:29 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021204155928.12144.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 15:59:28 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000b01c29bad$c2edb140$650224d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:59:28 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > Hi all, > > There is a huge picture of Arwen in blue at: > > http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/im > age14.shtml What a lovely picture! > from which you will note a bra strap. I think I speak for us all in > deploring this... That was a joke, wasn't it? I love that dress :-) Oh isn't fantasy wonderful. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:19:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13794 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:19:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GE2a2015422; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GE14V002502; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GDS4V002241 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:13:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08686 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:22:00 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings In-Reply-To: <000b01c29bad$c2edb140$650224d9@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:22:00 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote: > There is a huge picture of Arwen in blue at: > > http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/im > age14.shtml > > from which you will note a bra strap. I think I speak for us all in > deploring this... The bra doesn't seem to be well-matched to the gown, either. Is it just me, or is that dress lopsided on her bust? Her face is exquisite. The poor fit of the dress actually detracts from it in this photo. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:31:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13840 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:31:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GR2a2016800; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GPQ4V009022; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:25:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GOm4V008569 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:24:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2002120416244300100qoj9de>; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:24:43 +0000 Message-ID: <013201c29bb2$20bf3100$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "h-costume" References: <000b01c29bad$c2edb140$650224d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:28:00 -0600 Status: RO That is not a bra strap silly. :) That is the underdress. You can see that there are three layers to this dress. Two blue, one cream. The thing you are seeing is the top of the last layer. :) It is a loose dress, made to flow as she walks from what I can see. The looser the better the flow if I remember from my drama days. Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 9:56 AM Subject: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings > Hi all, > > There is a huge picture of Arwen in blue at: > > http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/im > age14.shtml > > from which you will note a bra strap. I think I speak for us all in > deploring this... > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:31:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13844 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:31:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GK2a2015987; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GK14V005911; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GJc4V005625 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:19:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JbZV-0003cn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 07:36:21 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000301c29baa$eaa71800$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Cass's Swiss Costume?-Was:I don't know what to head this Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:36:29 -0700 Status: RO I missed the original post. Could someone repost Cass's link? I assumed it was Kass McGann, but I think not? Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke >Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 7:11 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] I dont' know what to head this > > >Hello all -- > >On a total tangent here -- I discovered something when looking at the >wonderful Swiss page Cass posted. When I looked at the picture of the >beautiful gowns, I noticed for the first time how much this style emphasizes >the curve at the small of the woman's back, which Robin Netherton has so >often reminded us is apparently very attractive to gentlemen. I guess I >haven't seen too many of these gowns in person or from the right angle -- >let's face it, in films and on stage, the bust or the entire front view is >usually emphasized. But here you can see what a lovely curved shape these >gowns have in the back. Just a random thought -- > >Gail finke > > >> She gave me the website of the guy (Johannes Pietsch) who helped restore the >> pieces on display for this exhibit (and who would be teaching that class to >> make the men's lederkoller). I went to his site and he actually has the >> pattern for the one men's slit jacket pictured on my website. >> >> http://www.kostuemforschung.de/1207.html >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:33:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13853 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:33:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GSEa2016952; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:28:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GS24V010469; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from rhenium (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GPs4V009217 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:25:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-2-101.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.2.101] helo=dan) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18JcLR-0005M2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:25:53 +0000 Message-ID: <003a01c29bb2$5c64f780$650224d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20021204155928.12144.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:29:47 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, Nicole wrote, re my deploring Arwen's visible brastrap > That was a joke, wasn't it? Yes:-) > I love that dress :-) Oh isn't fantasy wonderful. Yes, both dress and fantasy are wonderful; I have some reservations about providing Arwen with Glorfindel's part, though. I've known gerbils more menacing than Liv Tyler... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:37:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13860 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:37:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GV2a2017339; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GV14V012190; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GU64V011656 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:30:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from asv9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (asv9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.30]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6L00ILOSI0XZ@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:30:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by asv9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gB4GU2J26624 for ; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:30:03 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings In-reply-to: X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:28:28 -0500 Status: RO I'd say the dress neckline was not quite properly fitted or backed. So the bra strap is peaking out and the dress looks lopsided. Sometimes this happens if the wearer was fitted standing straight and then posed slightly slumped. But I doubt this is the case here. I do like the different textures on the outfit. They are rich but still delicate. Linda K-S At 10:22 AM -0600 12/4/02, Robin Netherton wrote: >On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote: > >> There is a huge picture of Arwen in blue at: >> >> http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/im >> age14.shtml >> >> from which you will note a bra strap. I think I speak for us all in >> deploring this... > >The bra doesn't seem to be well-matched to the gown, either. Is it just >me, or is that dress lopsided on her bust? > >Her face is exquisite. The poor fit of the dress actually detracts from it >in this photo. > >--Robin > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:40:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13882 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:40:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Ge4a2018296; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:40:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Ge14V017392; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Gdr4V017253 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:39:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.176.125ffeb4 (4206) for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:39:43 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <176.125ffeb4.2b1f89ce@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What to Wear to a Unicorn Hunt To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_176.125ffeb4.2b1f89ce_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:39:42 EST Status: RO --part1_176.125ffeb4.2b1f89ce_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/4/2002 10:28:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, saragrace@earthlink.net writes: > I am working on a men's outfit for my husband (who swears he won't wear > it!!) I shall prevail! > > I think the key is making sure he has a good event to which to wear it! I slaved for hours over my husband's chintz morning gown and waistcoat, and couldn't understand why he wasn't all that enthusiastic. My boss remarked, "Does the term effiminate come to mind?" But I, along with the milliners at Colonial Williamsburg, have adopted the saying, "Real men wear chintz." And now my husband has willingly worn the gown to several events. Ann Wass --part1_176.125ffeb4.2b1f89ce_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/4/2002 10:28:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, saragrace@earthlink.net writes:


I am working on a men's outfit for my husband (who swears he won't wear
it!!)  I shall prevail!



I think the key is making sure he has a good event to which to wear it!  I slaved for hours over my husband's chintz morning gown and waistcoat, and couldn't understand why he wasn't all that enthusiastic.  My boss remarked, "Does the term effiminate come to mind?"  But I, along with the milliners at Colonial Williamsburg, have adopted the saying, "Real men wear chintz."  And now my husband has willingly worn the gown to several events.
Ann Wass --part1_176.125ffeb4.2b1f89ce_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:45:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13903 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:45:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Gj7a2018808; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:45:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Gj44V020175; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GiS4V019657 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:44:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-100-176.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.176]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANT99393; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:44:17 GMT Message-ID: <009101c29bb5$0fb06700$b0644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3DEED96F.60BEA908@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teeth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:49:05 -0000 Status: RO >So a little more on track, what sort of fabric would one use for a tooth cloth? I'd be inclined to say linen because rough wool would seem a bit fuzzy to put in your mouth. Linen was refered to in the Babbees book Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:51:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13932 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:51:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GpEa2019466; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:51:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GpE4V023686; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:51:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4GoV4V023167 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:50:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m222.in-tch.com [216.166.191.222]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB4GYXD05403 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:34:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEE326B.E0F641CE@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:50:51 -0700 Status: RO My guess is, since the gown neckline is so wide (nearly off her shoulders), that the "bra strap", which looks to be flesh-toned, is probably part of the underpinnings or interior construction of the gown bodice. The dress is lovely, but the neckline doesn't seem to fit her quite right--almost as if it's a little too big/wide, or perhaps the metallic trim (yum, for fantasy purposes! ) is too stiff? Nice to know, though, that even very lovely people in lovely outfits can have moments of gaposis! Somehow reassuring..... --Sue, who'd *love* to look that nice, in an ill-fitting gown or not! ;-) Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote: > > > There is a huge picture of Arwen in blue at: > > > > http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/im > > age14.shtml > > > > from which you will note a bra strap. I think I speak for us all in > > deploring this... > > The bra doesn't seem to be well-matched to the gown, either. Is it just > me, or is that dress lopsided on her bust? > > Her face is exquisite. The poor fit of the dress actually detracts from it > in this photo. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:51:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13937 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:51:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Gp2a2019444; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Gp14V023517; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Go24V022972 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Jcin-0006Tx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 08:50:01 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Does anyone live near Warwick Castle?? Message-ID: <000001c29bb5$353f4540$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C29B7A.88E1F3E0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20021204083542.57776.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:50:09 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C29B7A.88E1F3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The portrait of interest is the one on the left. Of course I have no idea if this is what it really looks like, but.. The more I try to pursue artwork from secondary sources the more frustrated I get.times, responsible artists and title are often incorrect...grrrrr. Thanks for trying to help!! http://www.saragrace.net/images/MiscUploads/sybillavancleeve.gif Sg ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C29B7A.88E1F3E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The portrait of interest is the one on the left.  Of course I have no idea if this = is what it really looks like, but….  The more I try to pursue artwork from secondary sources the more = frustrated I get…times, responsible artists and title are often = incorrect…..grrrrr.

 

Thanks for trying to help!!

 

http://www.saragrace.net/images/MiscUploads/sybillavancleeve.gif

 

Sg

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C29B7A.88E1F3E0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 11:52:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13944 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:52:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Gg1a2018490; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Gg14V018448; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB4Gf24V017920 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 46085 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Dec 2002 16:40:56 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.065692 secs); 04 Dec 2002 16:40:56 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.065692 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Dec 2002 16:40:56 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings In-Reply-To: <013201c29bb2$20bf3100$31baee0c@c59303a> Message-ID: <20021204113840.W60597-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:40:58 -0500 (EST) Status: RO In an interview with the costume designer, she said she'd designed the elven clothes to hang from the shoulders to the ground to give the elves a more not-of-this-world feel. This looks like an example of that aesthetic. Too bad...I think the neckline would have looked better if it had been more fitted and supportive. But check out the trim and embroidery! YUM! Drea On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, chiara wrote: > That is not a bra strap silly. :) > > That is the underdress. You can see that there are three layers to this > dress. Two blue, one cream. The thing you are seeing is the top of the last > layer. :) > > It is a loose dress, made to flow as she walks from what I can see. The > looser the better the flow if I remember from my drama days. > > Sincerely, > Chiara > Ansteorra, Steppes > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stevie Gamble" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 9:56 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings > > > > Hi all, > > > > There is a huge picture of Arwen in blue at: > > > > http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/im > > age14.shtml > > > > from which you will note a bra strap. I think I speak for us all in > > deploring this... > > > > best wishes > > Stevie > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:07:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13998 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:07:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4H7Ga2021643; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:07:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4H7F4V005863; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:07:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from rhenium (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4H6R4V005342 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:06:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-2-101.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.2.101] helo=dan) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Jcyg-0001ZI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:06:26 +0000 Message-ID: <004701c29bb8$064d1d40$650224d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:10:19 -0000 Status: RO Robin wrote: > Is it just > me, or is that dress lopsided on her bust? Yes, I think it is. I wasn't able to see the film when it came out, but I recently treated myself to the extended DVD which has some costuming coverage, and the designer spoke of wanting to give some drape around the neckline. I don't think it worked. It seems to come from a sequence in which Arwen dramatically lets her cape slip from her shoulders as she moves forward, which may have dragged the gown out of shape. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:07:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14002 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:07:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4H74a2021607; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4H714V005713; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4H674V005131 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:06:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from asv10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (asv10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.38]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6L00IEDTHKAD@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:51:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by asv10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gB4GpE028738 for ; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:51:15 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings In-reply-to: <20021204113840.W60597-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20021204113840.W60597-100000@shell.siscom.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:49:32 -0500 Status: RO Well, it definitely hangs off the shoulder. but that spot, between the shoulder and the breast is a tough one to have stay put if there is little or no support in the underlying dresses. It may not be as visible when the actress is moving in the movie. And unlike recreation garments, theatrical garments only need to look good from farther away. Linda K-S At 11:40 AM -0500 12/4/02, Drea Leed wrote: >In an interview with the costume designer, she said she'd designed the >elven clothes to hang from the shoulders to the ground to give the elves a >more not-of-this-world feel. This looks like an example of that >aesthetic. Too bad...I think the neckline would have looked better if it >had been more fitted and supportive. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:12:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14031 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:12:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HD3a2022296; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HD14V009476; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB4HCF4V008937 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:12:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 1839 invoked by uid 0); 4 Dec 2002 17:12:09 -0000 Received: from pd9e4f29b.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.228.242.155) by mail.gmx.net (mp013-rz3) with SMTP; 4 Dec 2002 17:12:09 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exhibit 16th-17th century clothing Munich Catalog Update From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3DEDF699.40004@Spamcop.Net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:12:09 +0100 Status: RO > with his english;-)] We are trying for march, as I miss good deep > snow because connecticut is coastal and really doesn't get the > type of snow I grew up with;-( and if that doesn't work out late > april. Hmm well, you are most likely not going to find good deep snow here! unless you go skiing and depending on the winter (it has only snowed once here - beginning of Nov and none of it stayed) I'm not sure what' going on in the mountains right now but none of my friends have gone skiing yet... Anyway even if the exhibit is over you could probably make an appointment with Birgitt to have her show you things :) Tja... Cass :) > > Cassandra Greer wrote: > >> When in spring? The exhibit might be extended to the middle of March >> >> Cass :) > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:13:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14035 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:13:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HDFa2022333; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:13:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HDE4V009643; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:13:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB4HCk4V009262 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:12:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 12763 invoked by uid 0); 4 Dec 2002 17:12:39 -0000 Received: from pd9e4f29b.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.228.242.155) by mail.gmx.net (mp014-rz3) with SMTP; 4 Dec 2002 17:12:39 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cass's Swiss Costume?-Was:I don't know what to head this From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000301c29baa$eaa71800$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:12:38 +0100 Status: RO Uhm, Gail replied to my post (I'm a Cass...) but I'm not sure what gowns she is refering to since my link is to several pictures - of doublets (which are Dutch/German). Cass :) > I missed the original post. Could someone repost Cass's link? I > assumed it was Kass McGann, but I think not? > > Sg > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >> Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke >> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 7:11 PM >> To: h-costume@indra.com >> Subject: [h-cost] I dont' know what to head this >> >> >> Hello all -- >> >> On a total tangent here -- I discovered something when looking at the >> wonderful Swiss page Cass posted. When I looked at the picture of the >> beautiful gowns, I noticed for the first time how much this style > emphasizes >> the curve at the small of the woman's back, which Robin Netherton has > so >> often reminded us is apparently very attractive to gentlemen. I guess I >> haven't seen too many of these gowns in person or from the right angle > -- >> let's face it, in films and on stage, the bust or the entire front view > is >> usually emphasized. But here you can see what a lovely curved shape > these >> gowns have in the back. Just a random thought -- >> >> Gail finke >> >> >>> She gave me the website of the guy (Johannes Pietsch) who helped > restore the >>> pieces on display for this exhibit (and who would be teaching that > class to >>> make the men's lederkoller). I went to his site and he actually has > the >>> pattern for the one men's slit jacket pictured on my website. >>> >>> http://www.kostuemforschung.de/1207.html >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:17:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14054 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:17:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HI2a2022822; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HI14V012711; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HHf4V012460 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:17:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.64.2921ae4a (3996) for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:17:34 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <64.2921ae4a.2b1f92ae@aol.com> Subject: Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] Janice Ryan sacque gown pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_64.2921ae4a.2b1f92ae_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10634 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:17:34 EST Status: RO --part1_64.2921ae4a.2b1f92ae_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/3/2002 12:13:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: > But that's exactly the point of theatre/tv it shouldn't be a slave to > historical correctness as that is not it's purpose. To begin with, it's NOT the point of thetre/tv to be wrong. If the change in period has a purpose or somehow enhances the concept, then so be it. But if it's wrong just because someone doesn't like a high waisted gown, then pooey on it. Like "Bram Stoker's Dracula"....it's just bad costuming for no reason whatsoever. All those designs could have existed in their proper period and form and not only have been lovely but also correct. This is the exact comment made about the show we're talking about now [which I haven't seen, BTW]. Changing things for no reason is just bad costuming. Especially if they flash the date in 10' tall numbers on the screen or the characters refer to historical events. I'm no nut for historical accuracy, as you all should know by now. But just plain ignoring the period is not my cup of tea either. Lavish displays of cluelessness are just embarrassing! --part1_64.2921ae4a.2b1f92ae_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/3/2002 12:13:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes:


But that's exactly the point of theatre/tv it shouldn't be a slave to historical correctness as that is not it's purpose.


To begin with, it's NOT the point of thetre/tv to be wrong.

If the change in period has a purpose or somehow enhances the concept, then so be it. But if it's wrong just because someone doesn't like a high waisted gown, then pooey on it. Like "Bram Stoker's Dracula"....it's just bad costuming for no reason whatsoever. All those designs could have existed in their proper period and form and not only have been lovely but also correct. This is the exact comment made about the show we're talking about now [which I haven't seen, BTW]. Changing things for no reason is just bad costuming. Especially if they flash the date in 10' tall numbers on the screen or the characters refer to historical events.

I'm no nut for historical accuracy, as you all should know by now. But just plain ignoring the period is not my cup of tea either. Lavish displays of cluelessness are just embarrassing! --part1_64.2921ae4a.2b1f92ae_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:21:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14069 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:21:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HL2a2023155; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HL04V014940; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HKL4V014483 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:20:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JdC8-0007Wy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:20:20 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cass's Swiss Costume?-Was:I don't know what to headthis Message-ID: <000201c29bb9$719ec200$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:20:29 -0700 Status: RO I'd like to see them all! Can you repost your link? Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:23:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14081 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:23:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HN3a2023389; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HN14V016227; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HME4V015747 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:22:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gB4H64i08560 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:06:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JcyJ-0005Q5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:06:03 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000e01c29bb7$72609d50$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001f01c29baf$8e503b40$650224d9@dan> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] How do they do those long feet:wasHuge Costume pictures LOTR & TTT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:06:11 -0700 Status: RO http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/imag e9.shtml How do you suppose they do those feet? Do you think they just make up the feet for special shots or does the actor have to wear them all the time 'just in case' the feet get in the picture. I would be falling all over myself. Waaaaa-I want to work on costumes for a living!! In my other voice "No I don't, making costumes for people is a thankless job.......You have to make all sorts of mundane crap along with the fun stuff......" I hate Los Angeles and most actors... Schizo Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:26:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14120 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:26:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HQ3a2023675; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HQ24V018178; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB4HPb4V017896 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 4639 invoked by uid 0); 4 Dec 2002 17:25:30 -0000 Received: from pd9e4f29b.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.228.242.155) by mail.gmx.net (mp018-rz3) with SMTP; 4 Dec 2002 17:25:30 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000201c29bb9$719ec200$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Cass's scans from Bay Nat Mus Catalog Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:25:29 +0100 Status: RO Here it is again http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum4.html So far I have arranged for 10 books to be sent Cass :) > I'd like to see them all! Can you repost your link? > > Sg > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:36:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14163 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:36:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Ha5a2024770; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Ha2pg024440; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HZApg023922 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:35:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gB4HbuF13351.; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:37:56 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:35:09 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] How do they do those long feet:wasHuge Costume pictures LOTR & TTT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB4HZApg023922 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:34:40 +0000 Status: RO Saragrace wrote: > http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/image9.shtml >How do you suppose they do those feet? Do you think they just make up >the feet for special shots or does the actor have to wear them all the >time 'just in case' the feet get in the picture. I would be falling all >over myself. I've read that the actors had to have many pairs of prosthetic feet. In my opinion, the hobbits' feet aren't hairy enough; it's supposed to be thick like head hair. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:42:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14186 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:42:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hg5a2025412; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:42:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hg2pg028067; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from infoblvd.net (infoblvd.net [216.42.64.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HfMpg027657 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:41:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from straight [216.42.67.17] by infoblvd.net (SMTPD32-7.12) id AE4122D80140; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 12:41:21 -0500 Message-ID: <016c01c29bbe$4cc89320$11432ad8@infoblvd.net> From: "STRAIGHT " To: References: <20021203142611.238E91E2349@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> <3DED7D73.604@Spamcop.Net> <00ce01c29b54$209fd8e0$a2432ad8@infoblvd.net> <3DED9CA8.72AC8C6C@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating and cold weather MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:55:11 -0500 Status: RO I'm in rural, hilly, southwest NYS. We're just a few miles outside the lake effect. If you look at a US climate map, you'll see a little purple circle in this area----that's me. It's colder than most of the rest of the state, and the frost free season is about 2 weeks shorter on each end. I go in and out, somehow a long time ago I tried making velvet and velour skirts to put on over the top to go outside, and liked it a lot. Um----my idea of "housedress" probably isn't most people's. I don't fit in the T shirt and jeans crowd, never did. I like fancy dresses, always have. Learned to sew before I went to kindergarten, (mumble, mumble) years ago. Never stopped. Of course, then I learned to crochet lace, and knit, and tat, and weave, and spin-------you get the idea. A lot of ---I'm trying to figure out how to put this exactly---country style historical clothes, "costumes", are very practical for life in the country. That's what they were, and they still work. Smiles, Diane S. -----it's up to 20F today! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< that you're talking about cold weather. It sounds almost like you're combining costume and non-costume elements to stay warm. Where are you, by the way? We've had a couple of weeks of nothing but sub-freezing temps and ice fogs. Ugh. Very dreary. I've been _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:43:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14190 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:43:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HhQa2025573; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:43:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HhPpg028941; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:43:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HgHpg028190 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:42:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <20021204174211053002q6eje>; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:42:11 +0000 Message-ID: <008701c29bbc$79d7fbf0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <001501c29b5c$c50e7230$befc8218@hopperflop2> <3DEDA5D0.EAA1CF59@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:42:06 -0800 Status: RO Thanks for all the positive feedback on my dress! I found the striped satin on ebay, amazingly enough -- the seller is michelle@tennenjobs.com, who always has amazing fabric bits and pieces (most of them pretty pricey, although mine was a Buy It Now for $40 -- 2 yards, 50 or 60" wide). I think it is originally an upholstery fabric, but it worked just fine for my purposes! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:45:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14197 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:45:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HjHa2025888; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HjGpg000247; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:45:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hhtpg029275 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:43:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JdYx-0002ia-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:43:55 -0800 Message-ID: <3DEE3ED8.6040400@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exhibit 16th-17th century clothing Munich Catalog Update References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 12:43:52 -0500 Status: RO Well, we do intend to hit the museum no matter what.. I will be making notes about specific questions to take along;-) Christian has a freind with a wellnessfarm that we may spend some time at and he says they tend to have snowcover;-) margali Cassandra Greer wrote: >>with his english;-)] We are trying for march, as I miss good deep >>snow because connecticut is coastal and really doesn't get the >>type of snow I grew up with;-( and if that doesn't work out late >>april. >> > Hmm well, you are most likely not going to find good deep snow here! unless > you go skiing and depending on the winter (it has only snowed once here - > beginning of Nov and none of it stayed) I'm not sure what' going on in the > mountains right now but none of my friends have gone skiing yet... > > Anyway even if the exhibit is over you could probably make an appointment > with Birgitt to have her show you things :) > > Tja... > > Cass :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:45:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14201 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:45:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hj3a2025841; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hj2pg029954; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hi8pg029352 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:44:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m222.in-tch.com [216.166.191.222]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB4GfqD09234 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:41:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEE3422.809B673B@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anyone live near Warwick Castle?? References: <000001c29bb5$353f4540$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:58:10 -0700 Status: RO You know, I think I've actually seen that one in one of my costume or art books. I'll try to find it.... --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:46:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14205 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:46:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hi5a2025697; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hi4pg029364; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:44:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hh2pg028711 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <20021204174257051007v5v8e>; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:42:57 +0000 Message-ID: <008e01c29bbc$94d7c200$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <001501c29b5c$c50e7230$befc8218@hopperflop2> <007201c29b69$088069e0$0a684ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:42:57 -0800 Status: RO Good point -- maybe I should just add a skirt lifter? Hmmm! I'll have to inspect the skirt to see how bad the damage really is (I haven't had the heart to look at it yet). - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress > Well done. I shouldn't worry about you skirt getting trodden on whilst it is > a pain, it seems to be totally unavoidable, unless you have your skirts too > high for authenticity which looks aweful. I used to be really devestated > every time it happened, but now I've got very quick to recognise the tug on > a skirt stepped & swiftly back up to avoid damage :) and really good a > repairing the damage ! > > Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:48:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14212 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:48:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hn2a2026347; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hn0pg002394; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HmPpg002037 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <200212041748190520026qque>; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:48:19 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c29bbd$551fb220$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <001501c29b5c$c50e7230$befc8218@hopperflop2> <001501c29b6a$1112f950$8fd6adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:48:19 -0800 Status: RO Actually, cutting the darts into the stripes was pure luck! I did try to match the seams pretty carefully, although the center front/side front seam got messed up (the cream stripe there is narrower than it should have been -- I mistakenly looked at the center front opening when I went to match the edges!). - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress > Oooh, love how you cut the darts into the stripes, and I think the black > sleeves with the stripes cuffs works very well indeed in bringing the skirt > and bodice to match:) Especially as I've seen a number of bodices that have > contrasting sleeves that appear to be made from the skirt bodyfabric:) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:51:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14227 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:51:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hp1a2026538; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hp1pg003610; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HoVpg003353 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:50:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip243.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.243]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB4HoQZ07230 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:50:26 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Swaddling Message-ID: <3DEDCC78.12597.21F89480@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20021204.071904.-153497.0.Cley@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:35:52 -0800 Status: RO > I confess total ignorance when it comes to babies, but isn't a certain > amount of crying necessary for the healthy development of an infant's > lungs? Yes. That may be one of the reasons why babies sometimes cry for no apparent reason that anyone can figure out. (But then they also cry when they're over-tired, over-stimulated and over-full.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:58:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14254 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:58:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hw7a2027311; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:58:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HhDpg028830; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:43:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4HgKpg028282 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:42:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gB4GvEi03164 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:57:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JcpO-0000Rx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 08:56:50 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000901c29bb6$28fcbb40$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29B7B.7C9DE340" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <176.125ffeb4.2b1f89ce@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Reluctant spouses wearing garb:was: What to Wear to a Unicorn Hunt Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:56:58 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29B7B.7C9DE340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am making this for Estrella Wars. My problem 'child' is a little more than most. He thinks dressing up at all is very stupid, has never been to an event to know otherwise, and only promised to go if it was under cover of darkness!! Thank you for the encouragement though! Sg ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29B7B.7C9DE340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am making this = for Estrella Wars.  My problem = ‘child’  is a little more than most.  = He thinks dressing up at all is very stupid, has never been to an event to know otherwise, and only promised to go if it was under cover of = darkness!!

 

Thank you for the encouragement = though!

 

Sg

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29B7B.7C9DE340-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 12:59:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14260 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:59:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hx2a2027421; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hx1pg008287; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB4HwJpg007817 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:58:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCt+uoAf13zm3VMpMB3aq5EwbaaVpj0y+1A=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HJ7Z7XPL; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 12:57:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress Message-ID: <20021204.115613.-221623.5.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:56:12 -0600 Status: RO Wow! It looks just great! I really need an instant transporter so I can pop over and see everyone's efforts in person because I strongly suspect they look even better in the....er....fabric than they do in pics. I love how you used that stripe effect, that's brilliant. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 13:00:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14275 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:00:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Ht3a2026965; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Ht1pg005950; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Hsvpg005691 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-122-211.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.122.211]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANI78618; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:52:28 GMT Message-ID: <004e01c29bbe$e288c1a0$d37a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <001501c29b5c$c50e7230$befc8218@hopperflop2> <007201c29b69$088069e0$0a684ed5@pavilion> <008e01c29bbc$94d7c200$befc8218@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:56:24 -0000 Status: RO >Good point -- maybe I should just add a skirt lifter? I have several & I've made a repro (see www.chatelaines.co.uk) but I still dosen't stop it completly unfortunatly Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 13:28:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14409 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:28:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4IS3a2001069; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:28:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4IS1pg025233; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4IRKpg024830 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:27:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JeEx-0006Sl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 10:27:19 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Does anyone live near Warwick Castle?? Message-ID: <000401c29bc2$cd36b330$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <012401c29b8d$7c4cd7e0$8fd6adcb@michaela> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:27:28 -0700 Status: RO Yes, I had come across that too after looking for it on the internet-that is the site that led me to contact Warwick. I have several costume books that mention it, but no good pictures-just that outline I posted. The hunt for artwork is rather fun! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 13:35:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14445 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:35:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4IZCa2001791; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:35:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4IZ3pg029349; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4IYGpg028860 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:34:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JeLf-0000Sd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 10:34:15 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] How do they do those long feet:wasHuge Costumepictures LOTR & TTT Message-ID: <000601c29bc3$c54cade0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:34:24 -0700 Status: RO > In my opinion, the hobbits' feet aren't hairy enough; it's supposed to be thick like head hair. Yes, but it was probably too gross for your average movie goer!! SG _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 13:46:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14563 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:46:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Ik2a2002964; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Ik0pg005670; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:46:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Ijtpg005575 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:45:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.107.1c045234 (24895) for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:45:44 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <107.1c045234.2b1fa758@aol.com> Subject: Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] Janice Ryan sacque gown pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_107.1c045234.2b1fa758_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:45:44 EST Status: RO --part1_107.1c045234.2b1fa758_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/4/2002 12:18:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > . But if it's wrong just because someone doesn't like a high waisted gown, > then pooey on it. Like "Bram Stoker's Dracula"....it's just bad costuming > for no reason whatsoever Thank you! You said what was in my mind, but I could not figure out how to say it succinctly and eloquently. Ann Wass --part1_107.1c045234.2b1fa758_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/4/2002 12:18:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes:


. But if it's wrong just because someone doesn't like a high waisted gown, then pooey on it. Like "Bram Stoker's Dracula"....it's just bad costuming for no reason whatsoever


Thank you!  You said what was in my mind, but I could not figure out how to say it succinctly and eloquently.
Ann Wass --part1_107.1c045234.2b1fa758_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 13:49:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14589 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:49:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4In1a2003305; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4In0pg007507; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB4ImFpg007046 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:48:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021204184815.98850.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:48:15 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DEE326B.E0F641CE@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:48:15 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > My guess is, since the gown neckline is so wide (nearly off her > shoulders), that the "bra strap", which looks to be flesh-toned, is > probably part of the underpinnings or interior construction of the gown > bodice. Yep yep yep. My guess too. The gown looks 'mounted' on an under-something, the front of the gown looks semi-stiff to me. It doesn't look like a 'bra'. > The dress is lovely, but the neckline doesn't seem to fit her quite > right--almost as if it's a little too big/wide, or perhaps the metallic > trim (yum, for fantasy purposes! ) is too stiff? I beg to differ, I actually liked the fact the neckline looked a bit 'odd', then again this gown happens to be my alltime favourite of all the elven gowns. (gosh do I HATE galadrial's white polyestery dress :-) > --Sue, who'd *love* to look that nice, in an ill-fitting gown or not! > ;-) YES!!! me too! While Miss Tyler comes over in interviews as not quite that bright in the brains department, I don't care, she is SOOOOOOOOO lovely. Nicole - le sigh, le very melodramatic longing sigh. ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 14:04:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14666 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:04:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4J4Ll9018911; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:04:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4J4E1Z015709; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:04:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB4J3L1Z015218 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:03:22 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021204190320.24706.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 19:03:20 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <003a01c29bb2$5c64f780$650224d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:03:20 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > > Yes, both dress and fantasy are wonderful; I have some reservations > about providing Arwen with Glorfindel's part, though. I've known > gerbils more menacing than Liv Tyler... Yeah but that's not the point in a costume, is it? I don't like what they did with the character of Arwen, I much prefer to see goodlooking males on screen than females, and eventhough she is mightily lovely and even I drool, I would have much preferred Glorfindel too, and even worse, I heard nothing of Elrohir and Elladan! *screams* Oh how I love the elven grey-eyed twins, but nevermind, it still isn't the point here *laughs* not even that I much prefer the race of men to the race of elves, the latter are SO boring. Bah! Too perfect. ;-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 14:12:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14688 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:12:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4JC2l9019475; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4JC11Z020174; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB4JBO1Z019815 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:11:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021204191124.73583.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 19:11:24 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nicole,your wig guy.... To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <7C5A6853-0780-11D7-AB05-0003936A9570@virgin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:11:24 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- marcus findlay-arthur wrote: > Nicole, > > Your wig guy is here in the UK isn't he?I tried to track down the > archives on the H-List but couldn't find your post with the fellows > details.Would you mind passing them on to me. No problem: Derek Easton, he has a little website now with the contact details on it: http://www.derekeastonwigs.co.uk/ Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 16:18:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15278 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:18:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4LE4l9017943; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4LE11Z029085; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4LDg1Z028887 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:13:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.42] (as3-4-56.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.42]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gB4LDe013981 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:13:41 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3DEED96F.60BEA908@bigpond.com> References: <3DEED96F.60BEA908@bigpond.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teeth Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:38:14 -0800 Status: RO At 8:43 PM -0800 12/4/02, Claire Clarke wrote: >Serendipitously, given the recent discussion of teeth, I just came >across this: >"To cleanse and make them white (ie teeth). Take the root of mallows and >rub >thy teeth and thy gums therewith. And after that take a rough cloth and >rub thy >thy teeth therewith. If thou washest thy mouth with water or with wine >that >titemall, that is spurge, is seethed in, the teeth shall never fall. >Knotgrass kneaded >and laid to the teeth is a good medicine" >>From MS 136 of the Literary Society of London. > >I think the efficacy of these suggestions would depend very much on the >properties of the herbs involved. Rubbing your teeth, especially with an >alkaline >substance (if mallow is that) would probably help against against >plaque, but >wouldn't do much for calcified buildups. > >So a little more on track, what sort of fabric would one use for a tooth >cloth? >I'd be inclined to say linen because rough wool would seem a bit fuzzy >to >put in your mouth. When Giraldus Cambrensis describes 12th century Welsh tooth care, he evidently specifically mentions rubbing them with woolen cloths. ("Evidently" because all I have access to at the moment is an English translation, so I can't double-check the specific wording of the original Latin.) He also describes cleaning the teeth with hazel twigs. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 16:43:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15371 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:43:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Lh4l9021398; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:43:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Lh11Z015030; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4LgC1Z014520 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:42:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.123.1ac23baf (3996) for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:41:54 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <123.1ac23baf.2b1fd0a2@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_123.1ac23baf.2b1fd0a2_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10634 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:41:54 EST Status: RO --part1_123.1ac23baf.2b1fd0a2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/4/2002 12:59:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes: > Wow! It looks just great! I wanna see!!!!! And I deleted the original post. Would someone be so kind....... --part1_123.1ac23baf.2b1fd0a2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/4/2002 12:59:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes:


Wow! It looks just great!


I wanna see!!!!! And I deleted the original post. Would someone be so kind....... --part1_123.1ac23baf.2b1fd0a2_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 16:47:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15385 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:47:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Ll2l9021705; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Ll11Z017531; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Lkr1Z017448 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:46:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.144] (pm5-144.eos.net [205.133.149.144]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28029 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:46:51 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021204151901.3402.30960.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] OT: British food question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:43:27 -0500 Status: RO Sorry to bother the list, but this is the only place I know to ask this question. My daughter is reading a British book and ran across a term she didn't know. Having read many British children's books myself, I am surprised to find that I don't know the answer. So here goes: what is "potted meat"? Is it like Spam, or something completely different? Private replies fine, of course. Gail Finke, Cincinnati, USA PS: And do you really not eat squash, the vegetable? We have many different kinds, from the ubiquitous zucchini squash to yellow squash (that's it's name, not a description), orange butternut squash, green acorn squash, and other more exotic kinds. And of course, pumpkins. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 17:07:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15454 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:07:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4M7Cl9023781; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:07:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4M7A1Z029208; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:07:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4M6H1Z028614 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:06:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227C222BCD for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:56:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip138.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.138]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3EDC72C626 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:18:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00e901c29bd1$bda5b920$8a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <20021204155928.12144.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:14:23 -0500 Status: RO If you look toward the left side of the monitor, you can see what definitely looks like a bra strap. But it IS a gorgeous dress! Dianne studying that beading on the sleeves.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings > --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > Hi all, > > > > There is a huge picture of Arwen in blue at: > > > > http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/im > > age14.shtml > > What a lovely picture! > > > from which you will note a bra strap. I think I speak for us all in > > deploring this... > > That was a joke, wasn't it? > I love that dress :-) Oh isn't fantasy wonderful. > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 17:20:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15500 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:20:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MKDl9024806; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:20:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MK8K0005428; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail10.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail10.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MJdK0004974 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:19:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from pageartists.com ([207.159.140.64]) by mail10.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MJcOr018828 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:19:38 -0500 Received: from horse (pdx-ppp258.pop1.net [209.102.127.93]) by pageartists.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA09633 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:19:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00d801c29be4$719f28a0$a5a1fea9@horse> From: "Brenna" To: References: <3DEED96F.60BEA908@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teeth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:28:12 -0800 Status: RO My grand-daughter and I experimented this last summer and found that medium-grade linen works pretty well. (Wool just might work better, though. Didn't even think about it probably because of the "fuzzy" concept.) We were also using a high-alkaline powder dentifrice I make. It has a slight but dissolvable grit to it. Bear in mind that if one uses any cleanser that will counter the acid found in most foods (and acid is what eats tooth enamel) on a regular basis _and_ uses a scrubbing method (not just a liquid swished around), plaque won't build up so easily. Scrubbing with the end of a twig works surprisingly well, too. For those who've never tried it, you have to chew the end into a "paintbrush" form to make this really work. Just takes a few chomps and it's ready to use. (Don't make it too soft or it won't work as well.) And it's _disposable_ reducing the occurrence of toothbrush-as-bacterial-breeding-ground problems. The advantage to the twig method is that it gets into crevices and between teeth better than any cloth can. (Memories of sassafras twigs from childhood come to the surface. No, I had a regular toothbrush. I just like sassafras.) (Okay, so the obligatory costume content wasn't here. At least I mentioned fibers in a comparative sense. :-) (Yes, I'm being silly here...)) Going back to "lurk" mode, Brenna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 17:21:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15506 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:21:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4ML1l9024901; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4ML1K0005967; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MKDK0005495 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:20:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip41.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.41]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB4MK7a13973 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:20:08 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teeth Message-ID: <3DEE0E2E.2494.22F94AE3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <3DEED96F.60BEA908@bigpond.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:16:14 -0800 Status: RO Heather writes: > When Giraldus Cambrensis describes 12th century Welsh tooth care, he > evidently specifically mentions rubbing them with woolen cloths. > ("Evidently" because all I have access to at the moment is an English > translation, so I can't double-check the specific wording of the > original Latin.) He also describes cleaning the teeth with hazel > twigs. Which brings us full circle back to Shakespeare in Love with Gwyneth Paltrow using a twig to clean her teeth. ;) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 17:27:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15526 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:27:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MO1l9025225; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MO0HW007686; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MNrHW007583 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:23:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip41.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.41]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB4MNkZ06158 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:23:47 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Message-ID: <3DEE0F10.28105.22FCBF9E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <20021204151901.3402.30960.Mailman@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:20:00 -0800 Status: RO > Sorry to bother the list, but this is the only place I know to ask > this question. My daughter is reading a British book and ran across a > term she didn't know. Having read many British children's books > myself, I am surprised to find that I don't know the answer. So here > goes: what is "potted meat"? Is it like Spam, or something completely > different? Potted meats aren't just British. We have potted meats too: deviled ham, deviled chicken, spam, and others I grab every once in a while to keep in the car for "emergency protein source." > PS: And do you really not eat squash, the vegetable? We have many > different kinds, from the ubiquitous zucchini squash to yellow squash > (that's it's name, not a description), orange butternut squash, green > acorn squash, and other more exotic kinds. And of course, pumpkins. And we have the occasional British squash such as Ribena. (Yum. My favorite, although you have to hunt to find it, usually only in specialty stores and only the concentrate.) Mostly we just call ours "juice". Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 17:32:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15541 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:32:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MW7l9025905; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:32:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MW6HW012241; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:32:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (mta2-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MVdHW011956 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:31:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.16.192]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021204223114.DPRA21072.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:31:14 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Subject: [h-cost] Thanks for the wig link Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 23:27:11 +0000 Status: RO Nicole thanks for the wig fellow's link. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 17:41:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15580 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:41:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Mf2l9026565; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Mf1HW017682; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MeXHW017395 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:40:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021204224032.GUW7059.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:40:32 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Message-ID: <3DEE8466.10231.247B6F08@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <20021204151901.3402.30960.Mailman@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 22:40:38 -0000 Status: RO On 4 Dec 2002 at 16:43, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > Sorry to bother the list, but this is the only place I know to ask > this question. My daughter is reading a British book and ran across a > term she didn't know. Having read many British children's books > myself, I am surprised to find that I don't know the answer. So here > goes: what is "potted meat"? Is it like Spam, or something completely > different? A term which hasn't been in common use for a while over here, either. I believe from context that it refers to something softer than Spam: more like a meat paste, to be spread in sandwiches. Checking books, Mrs Beeton tells me nothing, but other "traditional" recipes imply that it involves cooked meat, chopped very finely and mashed with butter and spices. The result is stored in a pot, with a layer of melted butter poured over the top to seal it. > PS: And do you really not eat squash, the vegetable? We have many > different kinds, from the ubiquitous zucchini squash to yellow squash > (that's it's name, not a description), orange butternut squash, green > acorn squash, and other more exotic kinds. And of course, pumpkins. I think what you call zuchinni are what we call courgettes: and while I know they're related, I wouldn't add "squash" to the name any more than I would to that of a cucumber or a marrow. We have pumpkins. Butternut "squash", with that name, are in the "exotic" section of the supermarkets, along with other gourds. If we say "squash", we'd think first of the drink. Not a vegetable. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 17:41:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15584 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:41:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Mf9l9026585; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:41:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Mf8HW017752; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:41:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4MeaHW017416 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:40:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021204224035.GXJ7059.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:40:35 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Message-ID: <3DEE8465.10163.247B6DDC@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3DEE0F10.28105.22FCBF9E@localhost> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 22:40:37 -0000 Status: RO On 4 Dec 2002 at 14:20, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > And we have the occasional British squash such as Ribena. (Yum. My > favorite, although you have to hunt to find it, usually only in > specialty stores and only the concentrate.) > > Mostly we just call ours "juice". Sadly, most British squashes aren't juice. "Orange squash" is usually orange food colouring, orange flavouring, half a ton of sugar, and added Vitamin C to convince you it's healthy. Still, it helps drown the taste of the fluoride in the tap water :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 18:30:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15731 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:30:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4NUBl9000326; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:30:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4NU7HW014142; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:30:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB4NTlHW013948 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:29:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 29490 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 00:20:43 -0000 Received: from 66-44-23-160.s922.apx3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO oldwaylane.net) (66.44.23.160) by shada.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 00:20:43 -0000 Message-ID: <3DEE9014.2000303@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings References: <000b01c29bad$c2edb140$650224d9@dan> <013201c29bb2$20bf3100$31baee0c@c59303a> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:30:28 -0500 Status: RO chiara wrote: > That is not a bra strap silly. :) > > That is the underdress. You can see that there are three layers to this > dress. Two blue, one cream. The thing you are seeing is the top of the last > layer. :) Actually, it is a bra strap. We thought for a while it might have been tape - but it's not. And the dress is actually steel grey (they do a lot of color tweaking). She has three dresses that are this same 2 layered style, with variations on the sleeves; and another 2 that are very similar but only single layer. This is apparently her "Human" style of clothing as opposed to her Elvish styles. BTW, Stevie, you didn't see it in the movie because it's not a dress from FotR, it's briefly in the new one. There have been a few pics of it around including the one where she's dropping her cape. -Judy Mitchell http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 18:42:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15771 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:42:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Nh2l9001141; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Nh1HW021084; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB4NgvHW021049 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:42:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 29986 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 00:33:55 -0000 Received: from 66-44-23-160.s922.apx3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO oldwaylane.net) (66.44.23.160) by shada.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 00:33:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3DEE932C.3070101@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] How do they do those long feet:wasHuge Costume pictures LOTR & TTT References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:43:40 -0500 Status: RO The hobbit feet are all prosthetic slipons that are glued to them - took about an hour and a half each day. Each pair was nly good for maybe 3 wears at most and then needed replacing. Ian Holm (Bilbo) hated his and insisted they were longer than the others - called them "boats". They wore them all the time "just in case", although often they weren't shot. Sean Astin apparently kept a record of how many times they had them put on and weren't seen (50 some odd) and ragged at the directors about it! They kept begging not to have to wear the feet. The current issue of Spin Off magazine has an article on the hobbit feet and which particular breed of wool that was used for the hair. I agree, they weren't hairy enough for Tolkien's description. Kate M Bunting wrote: > Saragrace wrote: > > http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/image9.shtml > >>How do you suppose they do those feet? Do you think they just make up >>the feet for special shots or does the actor have to wear them all the >>time 'just in case' the feet get in the picture. I would be falling all >>over myself. > > > I've read that the actors had to have many pairs of prosthetic feet. In my opinion, the hobbits' feet aren't hairy enough; it's supposed to be thick like head hair. -Judy Mitchell http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 18:54:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15835 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:54:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Nt2l9001975; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4Nt1HW027229; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB4NsUHW026877 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:54:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB4NsMU02884 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:54:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3DEE9596.82702D72@mccc.edu> From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question References: <20021204151901.3402.30960.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3DEE8466.10231.247B6F08@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:54:00 -0500 Status: RO I'm confused ..I thought a British 'marrow' was the same as American 'zuchinni'. Kate > I think what you call zuchinni are what we call > courgettes: and while I know they're related, I > wouldn't add "squash" to the name any more than I > would to that of a cucumber or a marrow. We have > pumpkins. Butternut "squash", with that name, are in > the "exotic" section of the supermarkets, along with > other gourds. > > If we say "squash", we'd think first of the drink. Not a > vegetable. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 20:14:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16153 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:14:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB51E5l9006603; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB51E1HW000497; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail022.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail022.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB51DmHW000403 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:13:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail022.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id gB51DgL26232 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:13:42 +1100 Message-ID: <013e01c29bfb$7618f980$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: References: <20021204151901.3402.30960.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3DEE8466.10231.247B6F08@localhost> <3DEE9596.82702D72@mccc.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:12:15 +1100 Status: RO > > I think what you call zuchinni are what we call > > courgettes: and while I know they're related, I > > wouldn't add "squash" to the name any more than I > > would to that of a cucumber or a marrow. We have > > pumpkins. Butternut "squash", with that name, are in > > the "exotic" section of the supermarkets, along with > > other gourds. > > > > If we say "squash", we'd think first of the drink. Not a > > vegetable. > > I'm confused ..I thought a British 'marrow' was the same as American > 'zuchinni'. It is. As is courgette. It's not uncommon to have one or two names for the same thing. Usually they're regional names. It's more confusing when you get the same word meaning different things (like jelly or lemonade). http://english2american.com/ Though I do remember going into a bakers in Balham and asking for a 1/2 dozen doughnuts. The girl had no idea what a dozen was. I wasn't even going to start on the concept of a baker's dozen! Paul -- Good planning and organisation are just crutches for people who can't handle stress and caffeine. http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 20:22:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16174 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:22:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB51N2l9006965; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:23:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB51N1HW003630; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB51MYHW003468 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:22:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from p757-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.249] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18Jkik-0003as-00; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:22:31 +1300 Message-ID: <00c501c29bfc$c5249c90$f9c2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <107.1c045234.2b1fa758@aol.com> Subject: Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] Janice Ryan sacque gown pattern MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C29C69.BB49A4A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:22:24 +1300 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C29C69.BB49A4A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <<. But if it's wrong just because someone doesn't like a high waisted = gown, then pooey on it. Like "Bram Stoker's Dracula"....it's just bad = costuming for no reason whatsoever>> <> No it's not eloquent, it's just negative. The costuming for BSD is = amazing (whether you like it or not is a different matter), just not = historical. If you'd had historically correct costumes from 1897 they'd = look really out of place in the extremely theatrical totally unrealistic = set and story. It's about a vampire for goodness sake. A vampire that = can change shape and control the weather.. not exactly a biopic about a = real person. In this instance historical correctness would clash = horribly. Just like for Moulin Rouge. With all the high artifice of set, = peaople bursting into songs from the end of the 20thC and zippy camera = work fashions of 1900 would look totally wrong.=20 In those cases you'd need to change all other aspects to fit the = costuming, and that's not how it should be. In the case of dramas like Age of Innocence, Anna Karenina, Portrait of = a Lady, Pride and Prejudice which were all fairly naturalistic yes, = costuming needs to reflect that. Fantastical costumes for those films = would have been totally wrong. Unless they decided to play with the = original book say and turn it into high melodrama or transported then to = another time and place for other purposes. The costuming for JoaT wasn't done featuring later 18thC costumes rather = than early 1800s because the designer "doesn't like a high waisted = gown", as I mentioned Josephine *did* have an empire line dress.=20 And yes this series was also high camp. It wasn't supposed to be real or = have people take it seriously.=20 There are far more things in designing for theatre/film than history. = You need to be able to very easily and without much explanation get = across ideas to the audience, most of which have absolutely no clue = about costumes! And if you choose to 'teach' you'd need to take time out = from the story to explain things and frankly you'd lose your audience. michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume ------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C29C69.BB49A4A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<<. But if it's wrong just because someone = doesn't like=20 a high waisted gown, then pooey on it. Like "Bram Stoker's = Dracula"....it's just=20 bad costuming for no reason whatsoever>>

<<Thank you!  You said what was in = my mind,=20 but I could not figure out how to say it succinctly and = eloquently.
Ann=20 Wass >>
 
No it's not eloquent, it's just = negative. The=20 costuming for BSD is amazing (whether you like it or not is a different = matter),=20 just not historical. If you'd had historically correct costumes from = 1897 they'd=20 look really out of place in the extremely theatrical totally unrealistic = set and=20 story. It's about a vampire for goodness sake. A vampire that can change = shape=20 and control the weather.. not exactly a biopic about a real = person. In this=20 instance historical correctness would clash horribly. Just like for = Moulin=20 Rouge. With all the high artifice of set, peaople bursting into songs = from the=20 end of the 20thC and zippy camera work fashions of 1900 would look = totally=20 wrong.
 
In those cases you'd need to change all = other=20 aspects to fit the costuming, and that's not how it should = be.
 
In the case of dramas like Age of = Innocence, Anna=20 Karenina, Portrait of a Lady, Pride and Prejudice which were all fairly=20 naturalistic yes, costuming needs to reflect that. Fantastical costumes = for=20 those films would have been totally wrong. Unless they decided to play = with the=20 original book say and turn it into high melodrama or transported then to = another=20 time and place for other purposes.
 
 
The costuming for JoaT wasn't done = featuring later=20 18thC costumes rather than early 1800s because the designer "doesn't = like a high=20 waisted gown", as I mentioned Josephine *did* have an empire line dress. =
 
And yes this series was also high camp. = It wasn't=20 supposed to be real or have people take it seriously.
 
There are far more things in designing = for=20 theatre/film than history. You need to be able to very easily and = without much=20 explanation get across ideas to the audience, most of which have = absolutely no=20 clue about costumes! And if you choose to 'teach' you'd need to take = time out=20 from the story to explain things and frankly you'd lose your=20 audience.
 
michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.n= z/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/cost= ume
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C29C69.BB49A4A0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 20:30:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16198 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:30:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB51V2l9007350; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB51V1HW006474; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB51UNHW006241 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:30:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from p757-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.249] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18JkqL-00023T-00; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:30:22 +1300 Message-ID: <00cd01c29bfd$e23d3b10$f9c2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <3DEE326B.E0F641CE@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:30:23 +1300 Status: RO > My guess is, since the gown neckline is so wide (nearly off her > shoulders), that the "bra strap", which looks to be flesh-toned, is > probably part of the underpinnings or interior construction of the gown > bodice. I'd agree. Most of the costumes we wore in Xena were able to be worn over normal underwear but for those that weren't they had internal structures usually made of flesh coloured lycra. They were usually sewn in. I mention this as a lot of wardrobe personnel from those shows went to LotR as the shows ended. > The dress is lovely, but the neckline doesn't seem to fit her quite > right--almost as if it's a little too big/wide, or perhaps the metallic > trim (yum, for fantasy purposes! ) is too stiff? I have a suspicion that it's her posture that is ruining the line. Others have mentioned she dropped a cloak in this scene, and she looked stunned and her shoulders look slightly hunched (the steep line of the angle of her collar bones as well as the roundness of her shoulders). It reminds me of an article on how to photograph dolls. One photo with the doll slightly hunched wound up looking extremely lopsided, dress and doll. I have a feeling that is what's going on in here, as well as the inner blue layer shifting under the outer. Probably because the velvet pile caused the fabric to creep. And of course such a wide neckline on a loose dress is going to be difficult to control unless you use body tape on the inside;) michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 21:10:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16340 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:10:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB52B7l9009295; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:11:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB52B1HW019388; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB52AAHW019091 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:10:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id SAA14345 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:32:03 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200212050232.SAA14345@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:32:03 -0800 (PST) Status: RO "Kendra Van Cleave" > > Good point -- maybe I should just add a skirt lifter? Hmmm! I'll have to > inspect the skirt to see how bad the damage really is (I haven't had the > heart to look at it yet). If you're going to wear it at Gaskell Ball, it _will_ get stepped on. My 1895 Worth reproduction gown isn't bustled, but it does have a short train. Since it was my wedding dress, I couldn't bring myself to leave the train off. However, I _did_ make sure I could bustle the train up to just below ankle height to avoid getting it stepped on. Over the years, I've seen too many people with flounced skirts on eliptical hoops and bustle skirts get shredded at that ball. I actually got a pretty serious sprain one time because someone's long skirt flounce had come detached and was trailing behind her on the floor during a polka. I ended up with her skirt flounce wrapped around my ankle and took a hard spill. There's just no way to dance on a crowded floor with trailing skirts without someone taking damage. Add to that, there are a lot of dancers at Gaskels who haven't learned floorcraft yet, and it can easily become a disaster. One of my partners remarked during a polka there, "It's hard to look flirtatiously into your eyes when we're trying not to get killed!" Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 21:41:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16472 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:41:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB52g2l9010820; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB52g0HW029699; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m8.bos.untd.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB52fnHW029624 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:41:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Okr+qya5M+ayXvjivBQOlso="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HJ8X5EF3; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 21:40:45 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Message-ID: <20021204.184214.-211469.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:52:28 +0000 Status: RO Jane wrote: > Sadly, most British squashes aren't juice. "Orange > squash" is usually orange food colouring, orange > flavouring, half a ton of sugar, and added Vitamin C > to convince you it's healthy. Ah! We call that Kool Aid here across the pond. 8) Arlys ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 21:47:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16483 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:47:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB52m2l9011159; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB52m1HW001812; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB52lRHW001660 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:47:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip43.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.43]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB52lLa10113 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:47:21 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Message-ID: <3DEE4CBC.11181.23EDAEF3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3DEE8465.10163.247B6DDC@localhost> References: <3DEE0F10.28105.22FCBF9E@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:43:08 -0800 Status: RO > > And we have the occasional British squash such as Ribena. (Yum. My > > favorite, although you have to hunt to find it, usually only in > > specialty stores and only the concentrate.) > > > > Mostly we just call ours "juice". > > Sadly, most British squashes aren't juice. "Orange > squash" is usually orange food colouring, orange > flavouring, half a ton of sugar, and added Vitamin C > to convince you it's healthy. Well, those are called "juice drinks" too. (Things like Tang, for instance are still considered juice even though it is exactly what you are labeling "squash.") > Still, it helps drown the taste of the fluoride in the tap > water :) I think you are thinking of Chlorine. Fluoride in drinking water has no taste. But Chlorine definitely does. It is what makes most city water taste so gross and is put there to cut down on water contaminants of the viral/bacterial types. In fact, they generally decide how much to put in by looking at the "coloform" count of the pre-Chlorined water. If it has a lot of "coloforms" better known as bacteria, specifically E. coli which all non-chlorinated water has, then they put in more Chlorine. That's why sometimes the water tastes worse than other times. (Sometimes it's almost as bad as poolwater, which has Chlorine for the same reason but needs more since it is not running water.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 22:04:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16535 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:04:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5323l9011752; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5321HW006585; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB531IHW006309 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:01:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1a5.d100f92 (4214) for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:00:55 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1a5.d100f92.2b201b67@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a5.d100f92.2b201b67_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Subject: [h-cost] Re: JoAT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:00:55 EST Status: RO --part1_1a5.d100f92.2b201b67_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/4/2002 8:24:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: > The costuming for BSD is amazing (whether you like it or not is a different > matter), just not historical. If you'd had historically correct costumes > from 1897 they'd look really out of place in the extremely theatrical > totally unrealistic set and story. It's about a vampire for goodness sake. > A vampire that can change shape and control the weather.. not exactly a > biopic about a real person. This discussion has probably gone far enough, but, just for the record, I wasn't agreeing to the specific comment's on Bram Stoker's Dracula, as I haven't seen it. And I know that people put Shakespeare in different periods, or no real period at all, quite often. I've worked on shows like that, and also on ones that start with the basic idea and silhouette of the period but go off on flights of fancy. Given all of your arguments, how do you explain Adrian's "Pride and Prejudice?" The story I have read is that he had just done a film set in the early 1800s and wanted to do something different. So that was just caprice on his part, it seems. >And yes this series was also high camp. It wasn't supposed to be real or have people take it seriously. Perhaps part of my problem is that I see high camp descending into plain silliness and I lose interest. I know theater isn't about re-creating exact historical reality. None of us can do that. And now I promise I, for one, will drop this thread and get on with my sewing. Ann Wass --part1_1a5.d100f92.2b201b67_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/4/2002 8:24:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes:


The costuming for BSD is amazing (whether you like it or not is a different matter), just not historical. If you'd had historically correct costumes from 1897 they'd look really out of place in the extremely theatrical totally unrealistic set and story. It's about a vampire for goodness sake. A vampire that can change shape and control the weather.. not exactly a biopic about a real person.


This discussion has probably gone far enough, but, just for the record, I wasn't agreeing to the specific comment's on Bram Stoker's Dracula, as I haven't seen it.
And I know that people put Shakespeare in different periods, or no real period at all, quite often.  I've worked on shows like that, and also on ones that start with the basic idea and silhouette of the period but go off on flights of fancy. 

Given all of your arguments, how do you explain Adrian's "Pride and Prejudice?"  The story I have read is that he had just done a film set in the early 1800s and wanted to do something different.  So that was just caprice on his part, it seems.

>And yes this series was also high camp. It wasn't supposed to be real or have people take it seriously.
Perhaps part of my problem is that I see high camp descending into plain silliness and I lose interest.

I know theater isn't about re-creating exact historical reality.  None of us can do that.

And now I promise I, for one, will drop this thread and get on with my sewing.
Ann Wass   





--part1_1a5.d100f92.2b201b67_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 22:32:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16617 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:32:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB53V3l9013302; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB53V1HW015430; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB53UcHW015243 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:30:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.36.32f2e28e (30970) for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:30:29 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <36.32f2e28e.2b202255@aol.com> Subject: Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] Janice Ryan sacque gown pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_36.32f2e28e.2b202255_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10634 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:30:29 EST Status: RO --part1_36.32f2e28e.2b202255_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/4/2002 8:23:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: > The costuming for BSD is amazing (whether you like it or not is a different > matter), just not historical. If you'd had historically correct costumes > from 1897 they'd look really out of place in the extremely theatrical > totally unrealistic set and story. Nonsense. They are lovely gowns and...er.... things...but the designer gets a D-. You seem to not care that they flash a specific date on the screen then ignore it. You also seem to not realize that the title of the film is "BRAM STOKER'S Dracula", not "let's make it up Dracula". Costuming does not exist in a vacuum. It was the concept of the film to be true to the book [then they go and do the very 1st scene....that isn't anywhere in the book] The whole film is a disaster on every level. The Japanese designer has a wonderful sense of style but obviously doesn't begin to get western clothes of the 19th century. The men's things are all over the place and awful, even if the women's stuff is opulent. Opulence cannot disguise hubris....which is what that whole film is about. And boy did it goeth before a fall. A sad waste of silk and boning! Working for the head cutter of the film at the time it came out, I head him say he was also disappointed in the results because of the complete disregard for period. The designer wanted sexy butt emphasis on the women so did bustles for that reason alone. What.... you can't get sexy hip/butt emphasis in those trumpet skirts of the 1890s? Of course you can. They cling and mold to the ass. Beautiful gowns. Bad designs....for that project. So you see, I'm not just negative but have well thought out and informed opinions. --part1_36.32f2e28e.2b202255_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/4/2002 8:23:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes:


The costuming for BSD is amazing (whether you like it or not is a different matter), just not historical. If you'd had historically correct costumes from 1897 they'd look really out of place in the extremely theatrical totally unrealistic set and story.


Nonsense. They are lovely gowns and...er.... things...but the designer gets a D-. You seem to not care that they flash a specific date on the screen then ignore it. You also seem to not realize that the title of the film is "BRAM STOKER'S Dracula", not "let's make it up Dracula". Costuming does not exist in a vacuum. It was the concept of the film to be true to the book [then they go and do the very 1st scene....that isn't anywhere in the book] The whole film is a disaster on every level. The Japanese designer has a wonderful sense of style but obviously doesn't begin to get western clothes of the 19th century. The men's things are all over the place and awful, even if the women's stuff is opulent. Opulence cannot disguise hubris....which is what that whole film is about. And boy did it goeth before a fall. A sad waste of silk and boning!

Working for the head cutter of the film at the time it came out, I head him say he was also disappointed in the results because of the complete disregard for period. The designer wanted sexy butt emphasis on the women so did bustles for that reason alone. What.... you can't get sexy hip/butt emphasis in those trumpet skirts of the 1890s? Of course you can. They cling and mold to the ass. Beautiful gowns. Bad designs....for that project.

So you see, I'm not just negative but have well thought out and informed opinions. --part1_36.32f2e28e.2b202255_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 23:36:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16779 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 23:36:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB54b3l9016532; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB54b1hG007651; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB54aNhG007333 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a222.in-tch.com [66.62.107.22]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB54JhD23818 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:19:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEED7B1.F10705C9@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question References: <20021204151901.3402.30960.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3DEE8466.10231.247B6F08@localhost> <3DEE9596.82702D72@mccc.edu> <013e01c29bfb$7618f980$18a231d2@valadan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 21:36:01 -0700 Status: RO Ohhhh! (lightbulb goes on) I'd *wondered* what the "marrow" was in the jar of Branston pickle that I brought home (dang, but that stuff is good! I wonder if there's a recipe somewhere....0 --sue Baralier wrote: > > > I'm confused ..I thought a British 'marrow' was the same as American > > 'zuchinni'. > > It is. As is courgette. It's not uncommon to have one or two names for > the same thing. Usually they're regional names. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Dec 4 23:42:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16809 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 23:42:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB54h3l9016894; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB54h1hG009636; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB54gahG009366 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:42:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a222.in-tch.com [66.62.107.22]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB54QcD26716 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:26:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEED94D.E51C77DA@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question References: <3DEE0F10.28105.22FCBF9E@localhost> <3DEE4CBC.11181.23EDAEF3@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 21:42:53 -0700 Status: RO Except that tang and koolaid are dry mixes, and the british "squash" is a liquid concentrate. My hosts in Bath kept some on their kitchen counter--I believe it was actually orange. --sue kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > > And we have the occasional British squash such as Ribena. (Yum. My > > > favorite, although you have to hunt to find it, usually only in > > > specialty stores and only the concentrate.) > > > > > > Mostly we just call ours "juice". > > > > Sadly, most British squashes aren't juice. "Orange > > squash" is usually orange food colouring, orange > > flavouring, half a ton of sugar, and added Vitamin C > > to convince you it's healthy. > > Well, those are called "juice drinks" too. (Things like Tang, for > instance are still considered juice even though it is exactly what > you are labeling "squash.") > > > Still, it helps drown the taste of the fluoride in the tap > > water :) > > I think you are thinking of Chlorine. Fluoride in drinking water has > no taste. But Chlorine definitely does. It is what makes most city > water taste so gross and is put there to cut down on water > contaminants of the viral/bacterial types. In fact, they generally > decide how much to put in by looking at the "coloform" count of the > pre-Chlorined water. If it has a lot of "coloforms" better known as > bacteria, specifically E. coli which all non-chlorinated water has, > then they put in more Chlorine. That's why sometimes the water tastes > worse than other times. (Sometimes it's almost as bad as poolwater, > which has Chlorine for the same reason but needs more since it is not > running water.) > > Kat Russell > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 01:00:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA17188 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:00:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB55x2l9020356; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB55x1hG002814; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB55wShG002721 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:58:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AB021130288; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 23:58:26 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB03E500B0; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 23:58:27 -0600 Message-ID: <00d601c29c23$57e97020$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Andy's Christmas Present Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:58:32 -0500 Status: RO I wanted to past this along for those people who have teenagers in love with the Japanese culture... one of those fads for this age group. I decided that I am going to make my 3rd son, Andy, a new quilt for Christmas. Years ago for Christmas I made him a quilt... well it is in threads. I bought him an electric blanket, but he prefers to sleep with the old ragged out quilt. He did the same thing with a baby quilt that my mom made him. Andy loves the Japanese culture, so today Pat (4th son) and I bought some beautiful Japanese printed cottons to make the quilt top at Hancock Fabrics. He loves Japanese dragons and I found two prints with dragons and two others with Japanese people. He also loves bamboo, and I found a black background print with gold bamboo. The center of each block will be the dragons and people prints, and I will outline the block with strips of bamboo print. The long strips separating the blocks will be black. Now I know you all think I am crazy for trying this project this late, but it is a really easy quilt to make. If needed Joe (hubby) can sew the straight seams on machine. For the backing of the quilt I will use a black sheet. Instead of batting, I use a thermal blanket. Instead of hand or machine stitching everything together, we use the tack-tie method. We use cotton crochet thread and run 6" baste stitches across the entire quilt. Then you clip the baste threads and tie them in a knot. Joe and I made three of the tie quilts for our oldest three sons one year for Christmas. We started the day after Thanksgiving. The boys loved them. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 02:38:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06621 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:38:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB57cSl9023247; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:38:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB57cRhG029673; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:38:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB57bohG029504 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:37:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-127-94.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.127.94] (may be forged)) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANJ16862; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:35:49 GMT Message-ID: <01b001c29c31$e8811760$37634ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3DEED96F.60BEA908@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teeth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:42:47 -0000 Status: RO Try this online Lation dictionary http://www.nd.edu/~archives/latin.htm Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 02:38:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06645 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:38:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB57c5l9023231; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:38:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB57c1hG029554; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB57bMhG029399 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:37:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-127-94.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.127.94] (may be forged)) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANJ16829; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:35:05 GMT Message-ID: <01ab01c29c31$ce2ecf60$37634ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:42:03 -0000 Status: RO Potted Meat is meat which is preveved quite often in jars or pots, you apply pressue & a layer of butter, various types are still incredibily popular in France but less so here, there are plenty of recipes on the web here is a fairly good general one http://cheftochef.net/r/8/A08833.shtml Marrows are just large courgettes if you leave a corgette to grow it becomes a marrow. Traditionally courgettes were French food & rather sneared at ;) Whereas a good stuffed marrow is very British !! (Much to the initially horrow of my French son) Are both Zuccini to you ? Squashes (as food) include butternut, pumpkin etc, and most experianced cooks would understand the food & drink ref & interpret according to the context, I personally use both. Sqashes are now the more artificial drinks otherwise called cordials and, sqash I believe comes from squashing the fruit via a sieve to make them :) Luckily you can get the french Squashes which are very yummy & much nicer (saddly I fill my car with these as well as wine every trip) online in the states called teisseire https://morpheus.safe-order.net/frenchfeast/order.htm Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 02:56:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA13848 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:56:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB57v4l9023723; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:57:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB57v0hG004806; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB57u6hG004633 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:56:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-0ccsjoa.cable.mindspring.com ([24.206.79.10] helo=earthlink.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Jqrd-0006ei-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 23:56:06 -0800 Message-ID: <3DEF062F.F5D2EA66@earthlink.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Eleanor of Aquitaine Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: perronnelle@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 01:54:23 -0600 Status: RO Anyone know of a good online picture of Eleanor of Aquitaine's effigy. I need it like yesterday and the only biography at the library has a poor picture. I worked my way through lots of Google hits with no luck. Lots of references to it, but no pictures. Thanks, --Charlene -- Official sign near door: Door Alarmed. Hand-printed sign nearby: Window frightened. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 03:10:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23440 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:10:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58B2l9024344; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58B1hG008271; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58AShG008129 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021205081027.TVJI9037.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:10:27 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Message-ID: <3DEF09F5.23377.26852753@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3DEE9596.82702D72@mccc.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:10:29 -0000 Status: RO On 4 Dec 2002 at 18:54, Kate Pinner wrote: Me: > > I think what you call zuchinni are what we call > > courgettes: > I'm confused ..I thought a British 'marrow' was the same as American > 'zuchinni'. Kate Well, a courgette is a baby marrow, so yes, sort of. Courgettes are up to say 10 inches long and about an inch thick. Marrows are say 18 inches long and maybe six inches thick. Same plant, though different varieties get bred for the two purposes. And then there's the prize-winning Giant Marrows for village flower shows, about which many jokes are made. I've always been told that if an American recipe talks about "zucchini", you should use courgette. What size do you think a zucchini is? Maybe I've been getting it wrong. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 03:10:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23503 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:10:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58BCl9024354; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:11:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58BBhG008320; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:11:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58AUhG008138 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:10:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021205081030.TVLA9037.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:10:30 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Message-ID: <3DEF09F5.5489.26852631@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20021204.184214.-211469.0.Cley@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:10:29 -0000 Status: RO On 4 Dec 2002 at 15:52, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Jane wrote: > > Sadly, most British squashes aren't juice. "Orange > > squash" is usually orange food colouring, orange > > flavouring, half a ton of sugar, and added Vitamin C > > to convince you it's healthy. > > Ah! We call that Kool Aid here across the pond. 8) Well, that explains a mystery. I'd heard of that, and assumed it was a dressing for burns :) If we call something "juice", it's juice. Mainly, anyway. Take fruit, and squeeze. Maybe add sugar, preservatives, colour, if it's going in a long-life carton, but the main content was once fruit. "Juice drink" would be a watered down version of the above. ("contains at least 10% real orange!") Then you get squashes with added juice. And at the bottom of the ladder, just "squash". Don't go there. BTW, the colourings used in the cheaper drinks stain cloth quite badly. But they're not fast enough to be used as dye, AFAIK. (There, costume content!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 03:10:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23577 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:10:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58BFl9024375; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:11:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58BFhG008346; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:11:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB58AYhG008155 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:10:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021205081033.20388.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:10:33 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <36.32f2e28e.2b202255@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Dracula, was Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:10:33 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > Nonsense. They are lovely gowns and...er.... things...but the designer gets a > > D-. Nonsense to your nonsense, because there are MANY points of view. Okay, so don't have a clue about clothing of the 19th c. and don't care either, and yes I would probably hate it if they did something horrendeous to 17th c. clothing, BUT to someone without knowledge nor any interest for 19th c. clothing, the costumes were FANTASTIC! and guess what, I gave the costumes and A rating in my personal costume-film ating list. Don't forget there are many points of view and there is NO such things asd ONE right opinion, believe it or not. :-) I understand what you say, and I do agree, and at the same time I disagree, does that make sense? Anyway, I kinda agree with everyone's opinion in this case, because everyone has a very valid point. I personally took Dracula as totally fantasy, and that's why I adored the costumes, absolutely adored them. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 03:10:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23591 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:10:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58BIl9024387; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:11:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58BIhG008369; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:11:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58AYhG008158 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:10:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021205081033.TVMY9037.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:10:33 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress Message-ID: <3DEF09F4.19174.268524FA@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200212050232.SAA14345@gw.retro.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:10:28 -0000 Status: RO On 4 Dec 2002 at 18:32, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > There's just no way to dance on a crowded floor with trailing skirts > without someone taking damage. Not that this is my period in the slightest, but didn't people used to do just this? Somehow? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 03:15:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27768 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:15:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58G2l9024787; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58G1hG009680; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB58FjhG009612 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:15:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021205081545.307.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:15:45 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DEE9014.2000303@oldwaylane.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:15:45 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Judy Mitchell wrote: > > Actually, it is a bra strap. Sorry, I still don't believe that. Is there proof for this assumption? We thought for a while it > might have been tape - but it's not. And the dress is > actually steel grey (they do a lot of color tweaking). She I bet it is lovely in steel grey too! Soo.. to bring it back to historic costuming, what era does it remind me of? (other than pre-raphaelite, obviously! *L*) Hmm..... Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 03:16:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA28888 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:16:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58H2l9024824; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58H1hG009908; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58GnhG009868 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:16:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-127-94.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.127.94] (may be forged)) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANJ18634; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:14:48 GMT Message-ID: <025b01c29c37$5aafcc00$37634ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3DEF09F4.19174.268524FA@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:21:46 -0000 Status: RO >Not that this is my period in the slightest, but didn't people used to do just this? Somehow? Firstly people were probably more aware, the longer you do it with a group of people the less they tred on it, it is more likely to happen from a non re-enacting male (yes generally males) Secondly there are carytoons in Punch were after a ball the toilette is completly ruined far beyond anything I've experianced, now I know it is saterical, but this shows that dress damage was occuring at the time, there are also written refs of the same. Bear in mind to clean these garment they unpicked everything & resewed it all together after cleaning, eaks !! I couldn't do that !! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 03:17:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA30608 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:17:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58I1l9024883; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58I1hG010139; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58HBhG009962 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:17:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-0ccsjoa.cable.mindspring.com ([24.206.79.10] helo=earthlink.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18JrC3-0001Vg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 00:17:11 -0800 Message-ID: <3DEF0B17.C04A729E@earthlink.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: perronnelle@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 02:15:19 -0600 Status: RO Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > Sorry to bother the list, but this is the only place I know to ask this > question. My daughter is reading a British book and ran across a term she > didn't know. Having read many British children's books myself, I am > surprised to find that I don't know the answer. So here goes: what is > "potted meat"? Is it like Spam, or something completely different? I was going to mention that in the States there's one company that even lists it as "potted meat" on the label. I couldn't remember if it was Hormel or who and decided to verify (turns out it's Armour http://www.shipbrook.com/jeff/potted.html ). I Googled potted meat and this came up: http://www.pottedmeatmuseum.com/ . There really is a museum for everything. :) --Charlene -- Official sign near door: Door Alarmed. Hand-printed sign nearby: Window frightened. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 03:18:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA31893 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:18:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58J1l9024938; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58J1hG010388; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB58IKhG010237 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:18:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021205081820.11046.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:18:20 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00e901c29bd1$bda5b920$8a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:18:20 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > If you look toward the left side of the monitor, you can see what definitely > looks like a bra strap. May I repeat myself: what makes it _definitely_ a bra strap? Proof please, proof! Nicole - awkward coz she wants proof, always, for everything :-) AND wants her figure and that dress *whimper* ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 03:38:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17077 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:38:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58d2l9025377; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58d1hG015022; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB58crhG014969 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:38:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021205080526.1691.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:05:26 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DEED7B1.F10705C9@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:05:26 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Ohhhh! (lightbulb goes on) I'd *wondered* what the "marrow" was in the > jar of Branston pickle that I brought home (dang, but that stuff is > good! I wonder if there's a recipe somewhere....0 > --sue Ohhhhhh Branston pickle! While I'll never be a convert to Marmite *poooey-pooey-pooey* I adore Branston pickle. I love the Branston pickle Walker's crisps too, actually, funnily enough, the Marmite ones are quite interesting, while Marmite itself is really like that: love it or hate it, nothing in between! You should be able to get Branston pickle online somewhere in the states? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 03:53:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA32310 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:53:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58s2l9025637; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58s0hG018553; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58rShG018439 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:53:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB58tdYv014760 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:55:40 -0800 Message-ID: <3DEF147F.1000704@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor of Aquitaine References: <3DEF062F.F5D2EA66@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 00:55:27 -0800 Status: RO To Charlene- scroll down: http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/normandy/falaise.htm an overhead view: http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/1044/eleanor.html kind of a crummy close in color view: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/monarchs_leaders/henry11_ibeji04.shtml Hope these help a little, Theresa Eacker Charlene Charette wrote: > Anyone know of a good online picture of Eleanor of Aquitaine's effigy. > I need it like yesterday and the only biography at the library has a > poor picture. I worked my way through lots of Google hits with no > luck. Lots of references to it, but no pictures. > > Thanks, > --Charlene > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 04:16:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA25412 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:16:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB59H2l9026344; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB59H0hG024456; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB59GohG024423 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:16:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gB59JYF29810.; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:19:34 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:16:46 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB59GohG024423 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:16:34 +0000 Status: RO Mel wrote: >Secondly there are carytoons in Punch were after a ball the toilette is >completly ruined far beyond anything I've experianced, now I know it is >saterical, but this shows that dress damage was occuring at the time, there >are also written refs of the same. Yes - in Mrs. Gaskell's "Ruth" the milliner's assistants have to be on duty at the ball to repair any damage to skirts that may occur. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 04:24:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28515 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:24:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB59P2l9026509; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB59P1hG026453; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f124.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB59OWhG026298 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:24:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 01:24:27 -0800 Received: from 80.3.160.4 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:24:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.160.4] From: "Joy Shillaker" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2002 09:24:27.0202 (UTC) FILETIME=[1B70EA20:01C29C40] Subject: [h-cost] Queries about coifs, biggins and headrails Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:24:26 +0000 Status: RO I wonder if any Elizabethan costumers could help me please. Is there a difference between a biggins and a coif and if so what is it? Does anyone know of any pictures of headrails? or, (fingers crossed) extant head rails? regards Joy Shillaker _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 04:28:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28529 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:28:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB59T1l9026589; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB59T0hG027384; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB59SlhG027304 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:28:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gB59VZF00560.; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:31:35 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:28:46 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB59SlhG027304 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:28:23 +0000 Status: RO OK, when I said the vegetable squash wasn't widely known in the UK I meant that nothing is sold under that name in your average greengrocer's. I know the courgette is a member of the same family, and I know some enthusiastic gardeners/cooks grow the "Spaghetti squash" et al., but to the average Brit squash is a drink. I would describe potted meat as a traditional British version of what we would nowadays call pate (sorry, my e-mail doesn't include accents). Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 05:12:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28653 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:12:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5AD3l9027834; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5AD1hG008601; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5AC5hG008286 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:12:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-102-186.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.102.186]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANU52888; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:12:06 GMT Message-ID: <040601c29c46$bcc2ec10$957e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:11:41 -0000 Status: RO >OK, when I said the vegetable squash wasn't widely known in the UK I meant that nothing is sold under that name in your average greengrocer's. I know the courgette is a member of the same family, and I know some enthusiastic gardeners/cooks grow the "Spaghetti squash" et al., but to the average Brit squash is a drink. I think you were right to say it is not a obvious first thought to the average Brit. I know what they are but no that many people do I didn't mean to suggest you were incorrect :) >I would describe potted meat as a traditional British version of what we would nowadays call pate (sorry, my e-mail doesn't include accents). Potted meat tends to be chunkier more like terrine (sp?) in France Pate should be smooth really The two used to be very diffferent I expect it depends on the time frame of the ref :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 05:13:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28659 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:13:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5ADNl9027853; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:13:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5ADMhG008767; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:13:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5ACmhG008512 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:12:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gB5AFZF03680.; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:15:35 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:12:47 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB5ACmhG008512 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:12:25 +0000 Status: RO Paul wrote: >Though I do remember going into a bakers in Balham and asking for a >1/2 dozen doughnuts. The girl had no idea what a dozen was. I wasn't >even going to start on the concept of a baker's dozen! She must have been exceptionally ignorant. Most British people would know what a dozen was; eggs are always sold by the dozen or half-dozen. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 05:52:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28761 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:52:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Ar2l9028979; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Ar0hG015808; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5AqchG015694 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 03:52:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 136BD1103A3 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:52:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip138.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.138]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F280010F0BB for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:52:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007301c29c4b$daec6180$8a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <3DEF09F5.5489.26852631@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:48:32 -0500 Status: RO > > BTW, the colourings used in the cheaper drinks stain > cloth quite badly. But they're not fast enough to be > used as dye, AFAIK. (There, costume content!) Over here, I have heard of quilters using Kool Aid to dye fabrics. Don't know how well it would work, or how fast it would be, but I think I would prefer to use more reliable methods. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 06:08:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28829 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:08:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5B91l9029338; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5B90hG019983; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5B8ShG019831 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0408A1102F3 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:08:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip138.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.138]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 925F510FBDB for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:08:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00eb01c29c4e$1168d3e0$8a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <20021205081820.11046.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:04:20 -0500 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 3:18 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings > --- Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > If you look toward the > left side of the monitor, you can see what definitely > > looks like a bra strap. > > May I repeat myself: what makes it _definitely_ a bra strap? Proof please, > proof! > I didn't say definitely "is". I said definitely "looks like". It may be part of an underdress or chemise type thingie ( how's that for technical) but it "looks" like a bra strap. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 06:11:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28840 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:11:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5BC0l9029404; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5BC0hG020711; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5BBShG020599 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:11:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gB5BEGF08082.; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:14:16 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:11:24 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB5BBShG020599 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:11:11 +0000 Status: RO I wasn't getting at you, Mel, just replying to whoever was surprised that we didn't eat vegetables of that family at all. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk 12/05/02 10:11am >>> >>OK, when I said the vegetable squash wasn't widely known in the UK I >>meant that nothing is sold under that name in your average greengrocer's. >>I know the courgette is a member of the same family, and I know some >>enthusiastic gardeners/cooks grow the "Spaghetti squash" et al., but to >>the average Brit squash is a drink. >I think you were right to say it is not a obvious first thought to the >average Brit. I know what they are but no that many people do I didn't >mean to suggest you were incorrect :) >Potted meat tends to be chunkier more like terrine (sp?) in France Pate >should be smooth really >The two used to be very diffferent I expect it depends on the time frame of >the ref :) I was thinking of the potted meat I had as a child, which was smooth. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 07:11:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28986 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:11:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5CAEl9001011; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:10:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5CADhG005362; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:10:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5C9LhG005190 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:09:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id EAA15685 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:31:15 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200212051231.EAA15685@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:31:15 -0800 (PST) Status: RO "Jane Williams" wrote: > On 4 Dec 2002 at 18:32, Lee Thompson-Herbert > wrote: > > > There's just no way to dance on a crowded floor with trailing skirts > > without someone taking damage. > > Not that this is my period in the slightest, but didn't > people used to do just this? Somehow? The dancing was a little different. Most of what's done at the Gaskell Ball is viennese (turning) waltzes, polkas, quicksteps and shottisches (though strangely, they _don't_ do the turning version of that dance). There are usually one or two country dances thrown in as well. But the major difference is that the floor is _very_ crowded, and a large percentage of the dancers there have _not_ spent a lot of time on dance lessons. I run a weekly ceili dance, and after a couple really spectacular disasters on the floor at Gaskells, we spent some time teaching floorcraft, even though we don't _usually_ teach waltzes or travelling polkas. The quip I mentioned in my last post about "trying not to be killed" came from another very experienced dancer. He was spending entirely too much time trying to avoid couples who were careening across the floor completely out of control. In that situation, one either learns to modify costumes for the environment or spend a lot of time doing repairs. You can do most of the dances in hoops, but not trailing ones unless you really want to spend a lot of time repairing your dress afterwards. And bustles really shouldn't trail the floor for _dancing_. Dinnerwear is different. For contrast, the Scandi dancers who do almost exclusively turning dances of many varieties tend to make sure their skirts hit just about ankle level, or perhaps the instep of the foot. Floor length skirts are for receptions, not dancing. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 07:19:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29018 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:19:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5CJ1l9001300; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5CJ0hG007561; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5CIOhG007407 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:18:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from p3-max11.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.214.131] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18JuxS-0003By-00; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 01:18:23 +1300 Message-ID: <005701c29c58$68571db0$83d6adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eowyn costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:18:22 +1300 Status: RO > Is the Pre-Raphaelite Women book mostly text? If it's the one I read (can't > remember the title) I highly recommend it. Oops, sorry this one got through;) This book does have a lot of text but is stuffed full of images, and some that I've not seen reproduced elsewhere. Including one which shows a woman taking her hair down and in a state of half dress.. her undergarment being total fantasy and made of what looks to be a heavy lace. sound familiar? michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 07:48:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29101 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:48:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Cm2l9001906; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Cm0hG014477; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5ClrhG014418 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:47:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m67.in-tch.com [216.166.191.67]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB5CVsD28113 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:31:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEF4B09.225D65B7@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question References: <20021205080526.1691.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 05:48:09 -0700 Status: RO Yeah, I think so...Found a website that imports all kinds of British food. Not sure if it was through this list, or another (the cross-topics are fun, but positively confusing sometimes!). One of my friends had asked me to bring some back, so I'd been on the alert. Bought some in London (price--ouch!), and then found it again in Bath (cheaper). This particular jar that I'm slowly consuming managed to open itself in my luggage on the way home (thank gawd I'd thought to wrap them in plastic bags!). I'd heard of "pickle," and had run across it in a couple of sandwiches (we ate a lot of those! ), but didn't eat it as itself until it showed up as part of my plowman's lunch in Shrewsbury.....*sigh*.....I miss British cheese something fierce. Hey, Nicole...I mailed a certain package to you a couple of days ago. They told me 4-6 weeks for shipping time, but when I used the same method in September to mail back some of the books I'd accumulated (mostly in London ), they actually got back before I did (less than two weeks). So who knows? --sue N Kipar wrote: > > --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Ohhhh! (lightbulb goes on) I'd > *wondered* what the "marrow" was in the > > jar of Branston pickle that I brought home (dang, but that stuff is > > good! I wonder if there's a recipe somewhere....0 > > --sue > > Ohhhhhh Branston pickle! While I'll never be a convert to Marmite > *poooey-pooey-pooey* I adore Branston pickle. I love the Branston pickle > Walker's crisps too, actually, funnily enough, the Marmite ones are quite > interesting, while Marmite itself is really like that: love it or hate it, > nothing in between! > > You should be able to get Branston pickle online somewhere in the states? > > Nicole > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 07:50:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29111 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:50:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Co1l9001952; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Co1hG015017; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5CnphG014942 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:49:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m67.in-tch.com [216.166.191.67]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB5CXrD28525 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:33:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEF4B85.619FCDD4@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question References: <3DEF09F5.5489.26852631@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 05:50:13 -0700 Status: RO Apparently, you can dye fabrics quite nicely with a mixture of koolaid. Not sure of proportions, etc. I, for one, however, am not interested in wearing something dyed "Crazy Berry Blue." --sue Jane Williams wrote: > > On 4 Dec 2002 at 15:52, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > > Jane wrote: > > > Sadly, most British squashes aren't juice. "Orange > > > squash" is usually orange food colouring, orange > > > flavouring, half a ton of sugar, and added Vitamin C > > > to convince you it's healthy. > > > > Ah! We call that Kool Aid here across the pond. 8) > > Well, that explains a mystery. I'd heard of that, and > assumed it was a dressing for burns :) > > If we call something "juice", it's juice. Mainly, > anyway. Take fruit, and squeeze. Maybe add sugar, > preservatives, colour, if it's going in a long-life > carton, but the main content was once fruit. > > "Juice drink" would be a watered down version of the > above. ("contains at least 10% real orange!") > > Then you get squashes with added juice. > > And at the bottom of the ladder, just "squash". Don't > go there. > > BTW, the colourings used in the cheaper drinks stain > cloth quite badly. But they're not fast enough to be > used as dye, AFAIK. (There, costume content!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 07:54:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29119 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:54:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Cs2l9002046; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Cs1hG015935; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5CrlhG015840 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:53:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m67.in-tch.com [216.166.191.67]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB5CbnD29462 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:37:50 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEF4C71.9BC64220@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question References: <3DEF09F5.23377.26852753@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 05:54:09 -0700 Status: RO All the same critter, over here. Most recipes would prefer you to use them when they're, say, cucumber-sized up to the size of your forearm, but not much bigger. Of course, as any gardener knows, they're sneaky, and grow *much* bigger than that (usually hidden under the leaves in the back of the plant!). We got some completely enormous ones when I was a kid...could feed some to the cows and chickens, and the rest got set up on fence posts and used for target practice. They also blow up pretty good (ISTR), if you stick fire crackers in them. --sue Jane Williams wrote: > > On 4 Dec 2002 at 18:54, Kate Pinner wrote: > > Me: > > > I think what you call zuchinni are what we call > > > courgettes: > > > I'm confused ..I thought a British 'marrow' was the same as American > > 'zuchinni'. Kate > > Well, a courgette is a baby marrow, so yes, sort of. > Courgettes are up to say 10 inches long and about > an inch thick. Marrows are say 18 inches long and > maybe six inches thick. Same plant, though > different varieties get bred for the two purposes. And > then there's the prize-winning Giant Marrows for > village flower shows, about which many jokes are > made. > > I've always been told that if an American recipe talks > about "zucchini", you should use courgette. What > size do you think a zucchini is? Maybe I've been > getting it wrong. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 07:57:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29127 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:57:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Cv1l9002121; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Cv0hG016713; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5CuihG016656 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:56:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gB5CuiP7016655 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:56:44 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Message-ID: <20021205055643.D6036@net.indra.com> References: <3DEED7B1.F10705C9@in-tch.com> <20021205080526.1691.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021205080526.1691.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 05:56:44 -0700 Status: RO Please wrap up this discussion, as it's off-topic for this list. Thanks, ...eliz, list admin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 08:39:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29212 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:39:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5DcMl9003263; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:38:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5DcKhG027189; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:38:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5DbAhG026851 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:37:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-086.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.86]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 586E219FD51 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:37:04 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3DEF567E.6050006@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:37:02 +0100 Status: RO Hi, Has anyone noticed that the new Simplicity pattern 5724 looks a lot like the dress in a fashion plate from 1851... :-) http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/grahams1851b.jpg http://www.simplicity.com/s2b.htm Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 08:40:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29221 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:40:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5De1l9003322; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5De0hG027623; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5DdOhG027446 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:39:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-104-33.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.104.33]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANU69470; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:39:23 GMT Message-ID: <04d001c29c63$b203bd00$957e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:39:10 -0000 Status: RO >bakers in Balham My sister lives in Balham, she might well not have been English at all ;) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 08:46:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29234 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:46:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Dk2l9003530; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Dk1hG029343; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB5DjNhG029196 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:45:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021205134522.56358.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:45:22 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DEF567E.6050006@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:45:22 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > Hi, > Has anyone noticed that the new Simplicity pattern 5724 looks a lot like > the dress in a fashion plate from 1851... :-) > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/grahams1851b.jpg > http://www.simplicity.com/s2b.htm http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5724/5724.jpg Urgh... uhm... hmm... is it just me or are those big fat red roses a tad OTT? *shudder* No, seriously, I don't have a clue about this period and it struck me as an awfully ugly dress, therefore I would like to know, IS this historically correct? Is this right or more a costumey costume? Cheers Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 08:52:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29259 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:52:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Dq1l9003730; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Dq0hG001202; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5DpVhG001087 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-104-33.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.104.33]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANU70260; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:51:39 GMT Message-ID: <051c01c29c65$68490100$957e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <200212051231.EAA15685@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:51:26 -0000 Status: RO >The dancing was a little different. Yeah mad insane fast & loopy >bustles really shouldn't trail the floor for _dancing_. Depends what you mean by trail, not long trains I'd agree but the 1872 dance book I have and most of the pics I've seen for that era have floor length and slightly trailing skirts certainly enough to be stepped on quite easily :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 10:17:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29562 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:17:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5FG8l9007411; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:16:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5FG1hG028311; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5FFKhG028020 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:15:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.198.11aab34a (3858) for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:13:34 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <198.11aab34a.2b20c71d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dracula, was Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_198.11aab34a.2b20c71d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10634 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:13:33 EST Status: RO --part1_198.11aab34a.2b20c71d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 3:09:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes: > I understand what you say, and I do agree, and at the same time I disagree, > does that make sense? Of course that makes sense! We're throwing OPINIONS back and forth, not facts or life threatening diagnoses. I love the clothes in "Orlando"....a film many of my friends hate....clothes and all. No one is immune. --part1_198.11aab34a.2b20c71d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 3:09:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:


I understand what you say, and I do agree, and at the same time I disagree,
does that make sense?


Of course that makes sense! We're throwing OPINIONS back and forth, not facts or life threatening diagnoses.

I love the clothes in "Orlando"....a film many of my friends hate....clothes and all. No one is immune. --part1_198.11aab34a.2b20c71d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 10:28:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29591 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:28:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5FR4l9008263; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5FR2hG003019; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB5FQehG002817 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:26:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoQYRxuFvwuc1Z2PxMA34BUyR4UE56cShw=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKABV58C; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:25:44 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021205.102440.-179017.2.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-6 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Subject: [h-cost] Tudor question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:24:39 -0500 Status: RO Were cartridge pleats used during the Tudor period or did they come into vogue during the Elizabethan period? I am about to do my Tudor skirt and would really rather do cartridge pleats because they are easier than fooling with knife pleats, but can't find a picture that doesn't have the arms hiding the waist. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 10:39:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29626 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:39:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fc4l9009145; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:38:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fc1hG008067; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5FbOhG007749 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:37:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.69.31612e96 (657) for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:37:03 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <69.31612e96.2b20cc9f@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_69.31612e96.2b20cc9f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Subject: [h-cost] Lecture at Riversdale House Museum Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:37:03 EST Status: RO --part1_69.31612e96.2b20cc9f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List: I can't remember if I posted an announcement of this lecture to this list: Dr. Colleen Gau, co-author of "Uplift: the Bra in America," was scheduled to do a lecture and book signing here at Riversdale, 4811 Riverdale Rd., Riverdale Park, Maryland, tonight, Dec. 5. We denizens of the DC metro area being what we are, we have postponed the lecture, due to snow, to Friday night, Dec. 6, at 7:00 p.m. Cost is $5.00. Ann Wass --part1_69.31612e96.2b20cc9f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List:
I can't remember if I posted an announcement of this lecture to this list:
Dr. Colleen Gau, co-author of "Uplift: the Bra in America," was scheduled to do a lecture and book signing here at Riversdale, 4811 Riverdale Rd., Riverdale Park, Maryland, tonight, Dec. 5.  We denizens of the DC metro area being what we are, we have postponed the lecture, due to snow, to Friday night, Dec. 6, at 7:00 p.m.  Cost is $5.00.
Ann Wass --part1_69.31612e96.2b20cc9f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 10:44:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29650 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:44:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fh3l9009538; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fh1hG010412; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fg9hG009952 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:42:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout07.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6N006VRKV0HL@mtaout07.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:40:12 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DEF7322.8030504@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:39:14 -0600 Status: RO Way back when we had the discussion of the "tapes" hanging from the shoulders there was a "working sketch" that was done by an artist that showed the back of a tudor gown and I would say it was cartridge pleated. I have the picture, but did not save the URL. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 10:49:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29671 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:49:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fm4l9009961; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fm2hG012747; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB5Fk1hG011830 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:46:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021205152918.2713.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 15:29:18 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dracula, was Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <198.11aab34a.2b20c71d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:29:18 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > I > I love the clothes in "Orlando"....a film many of my friends hate....clothes > and all. No one is immune. Ohhhh Orlando, gorgeous, wonderful! I adore the 1700 justaucorps and big wig and all he/she is wearing. Sure it is OTT, but it is wonderful, and actually not that horiffically wrong. The red 1700 outfit is my favourite from the film, what is yours? I must admit though that my favourite scene of 'em all is thingamy as the singing angel. *BG* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 10:51:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29698 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:51:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fo2l9010103; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fo2hG013766; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5FnJhG013342 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:49:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m212.in-tch.com [216.166.191.212]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB5FXLD04151 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:33:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DEF7595.4BD934D0@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern References: <20021205134522.56358.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:49:41 -0700 Status: RO Good Lord! She looks like she's wearing a Christmas tree skirt! I can kinda see the resemblance to the fashion plate, but I wonder about the color scheme! --Sue, pre-17th c. costume geek N Kipar wrote: > > --- Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > Hi, > > Has anyone noticed that the new Simplicity pattern 5724 looks a lot like > > the dress in a fashion plate from 1851... :-) > > > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/grahams1851b.jpg > > http://www.simplicity.com/s2b.htm > > http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5724/5724.jpg > > Urgh... uhm... hmm... is it just me or are those big fat red roses a tad OTT? > *shudder* > > No, seriously, I don't have a clue about this period and it struck me as an > awfully ugly dress, therefore I would like to know, IS this historically > correct? Is this right or more a costumey costume? > > Cheers > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 10:53:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29724 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:53:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fq2l9010259; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fq1hG014688; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB5FpxhG014666 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:51:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 50216 invoked by uid 1005); 5 Dec 2002 15:51:53 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.067132 secs); 05 Dec 2002 15:51:53 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.067132 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 15:51:53 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question In-Reply-To: <20021205.102440.-179017.2.catpurson@juno.com> Message-ID: <20021205104203.R4427-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:51:55 -0500 (EST) Status: RO In Tudor times, the skirt was gathered to the bodice primarily in the back. There are references to the pleats (however they were made) being "stuffed", which could give a very full, rounded and "cartridge-pleated" look to simple box pleats or knife pleats. This stuffing also helped the pleats to stand out. I'm not sure if the stuffing involved pleating, sewing, and then pushing stuffing in and sewing the pleat closed, or if it involved a layer of wool or cotton batting laid against the skirt fabric before it was pleated. Anyone have any more info on the mechanics of 16th c. stuffed pleats? While we can't say with certainty that skirts weren't cartridge-pleated in Tudor times, I prefer the more documentable box or knife pleating until the later 1580s. If you cartridge pleat a skirt and then push the pleats flat, you get really lovely, evenly spaced knife-pleats. Good luck with the gown, Drea On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Lalah T Tillinghast wrote: > Were cartridge pleats used during the Tudor period or did they > come into vogue during the Elizabethan period? I am about to do my Tudor > skirt and would really rather do cartridge pleats because they are easier > than fooling with knife pleats, but can't find a picture that doesn't > have the arms hiding the waist. > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 10:55:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29739 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:55:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fs5l9010444; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:54:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Fs3hG015716; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from m15.bos.untd.com (m15.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB5FrOhG015356 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:53:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"zDT9J7+GjNHhZUZmXWsl4PNBkXCEmZ7v8GRzV4n/pcfiMPreD1BKBA=="> Received: (from luann.mason@juno.com) by m15.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKADE7NS; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:52:31 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Message-ID: <20021205.075653.-294777.1.luann.mason@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-12,14-18 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: luann.mason@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:34:49 -0800 Status: RO On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:43:27 -0500 Gail & Scott Finke writes: > > > Sorry to bother the list, but this is the only place I know to ask > this > question. My daughter is reading a British book and ran across a > term she > didn't know. Having read many British children's books myself, I am > surprised to find that I don't know the answer. So here goes: what > is > "potted meat"? Is it like Spam, or something completely different? Closer to deviled ham. :-) You can buy it in most grocery stores, near the tuna. :-) HTH-- LuAnn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 11:14:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29821 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:14:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5GDEl9011927; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:13:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5GDD4B025270; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:13:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from m8.bos.untd.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB5GCt4B025022 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:12:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OnHFH5XF8g3UE5U3EWgd5q0="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKAEJ9W8; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:12:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queries about coifs, biggins and headrails Message-ID: <20021205.081355.-47457.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-8,10-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:06:49 +0000 Status: RO On Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:24:26 +0000 "Joy Shillaker" writes: > I wonder if any Elizabethan costumers could help me please. > > Is there a difference between a biggins and a coif and if so what is > it? I was under the impression that a coif is a fitted cap and a biggins is a bag-like cap, fitted in the front with a bag for the hair in the back. Arlys, not a costumer ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 11:17:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29837 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:17:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5GG1l9012183; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5GG14B026791; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5GF14B026193 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2002120516145405100g710re>; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:14:54 +0000 Message-ID: <008001c29c79$71e2cca0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <200212051231.EAA15685@gw.retro.com> <051c01c29c65$68490100$957e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Subject: Trains & skirt lifters (WAS Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:14:53 -0800 Status: RO Re: the comment that skirts shouldn't trail on the ground for dancing: Yes, but there was a period in the mid- to late-1870's when trains were de rigeur for ALL skirts. There were tons of complaints that women wore loooong trains when out walking, which ended up trailing in the mud. I do agree that most modern day dancers don't have an idea about floorcraft, but my guess is that balls could be just as crowded in the 19th century as they are today at the Gaskell ball. So how did women deal with trains when dancing? Were skirt lifters used, or did they hold their skirt up, or did people know to avoid them, or were the dances written in such a way as to incorporate the trains? Has anyone seen any period images of women with skirt lifters (either metal ones, loops sewn to the skirt, or someone just holding up their skirt while dancing)? I'm just wondering how the ladies in "Too Early" got around the floor without massive damage! http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/tissot/p-tissot16.htm - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 11:21:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29857 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:21:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5GK2l9012645; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5GK14B029072; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx05.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5GJ14B028348 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 37110781 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:18:56 -0500 Message-ID: <005a01c29c79$ef475300$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: References: <20021205104203.R4427-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:18:22 -0600 Status: RO So, about where would you start the pleating? And the rest is sewn together flat? When do they start pleating all the way around the skirt? ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** > In Tudor times, the skirt was gathered to the bodice primarily in > the back. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 11:35:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30109 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:35:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5GT1l9013432; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5GT04B003836; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5GS74B003317 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:28:08 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200212051628.gB5GS74B003317@net.indra.com> Received: from rwcrwbc72 ([204.127.198.102]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <2002120516280205300avvbpe>; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:28:02 +0000 Received: from [205.225.207.97] by rwcrwbc72; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:28:01 +0000 From: mabse@attbi.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Andy's Christmas Present X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 5 2002) X-Authenticated-Sender: bWFic2VAYXR0YmkuY29t Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:28:01 +0000 Status: RO just a warning - my son had this same fascination, and now I am paying for a college junior year abroad in Japan. (and happy to do it, just want you to know where it can lead). He is also a fencer and is going to take traditional Japanese fencing classes when he is in Japan. I assume that this is the same as a Samuri. Does anyone have a reference for patterns for traditional Japanese fencing garb? I thought I would make him a costume for his trip. Would the Japanese have used linen or wool? Or, were they pretty much limited to silk? Does anyone know anything about historic Japanese dress. Maybe this will lead me to some research on Questia. thanks, maryann, who is now in Nutcracker hell for the next couple of weeks. > I wanted to past this along for those people who have teenagers in love with > the Japanese culture... one of those fads for this age group. > > I decided that I am going to make my 3rd son, Andy, a new quilt for > Christmas. Years ago for Christmas I made him a quilt... well it is in > threads. I bought him an electric blanket, but he prefers to sleep with the > old ragged out quilt. He did the same thing with a baby quilt that my mom > made him. > > Andy loves the Japanese culture, so today Pat (4th son) and I bought some > beautiful Japanese printed cottons to make the quilt top at Hancock Fabrics. > He loves Japanese dragons and I found two prints with dragons and two others > with Japanese people. He also loves bamboo, and I found a black background > print with gold bamboo. The center of each block will be the dragons and > people prints, and I will outline the block with strips of bamboo print. > The long strips separating the blocks will be black. > > Now I know you all think I am crazy for trying this project this late, but > it is a really easy quilt to make. If needed Joe (hubby) can sew the > straight seams on machine. For the backing of the quilt I will use a black > sheet. Instead of batting, I use a thermal blanket. Instead of hand or > machine stitching everything together, we use the tack-tie method. We use > cotton crochet thread and run 6" baste stitches across the entire quilt. > Then you clip the baste threads and tie them in a knot. > > Joe and I made three of the tie quilts for our oldest three sons one year > for Christmas. We started the day after Thanksgiving. The boys loved them. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 12:56:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30712 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:56:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Ht5l9021325; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Ht20S027053; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Hs60S026419 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:54:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gB5Hs0U12479 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:54:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3DEF92A0.68780E6A@mccc.edu> From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question References: <3DEF09F5.5489.26852631@localhost> <3DEF4B85.619FCDD4@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 12:53:38 -0500 Status: RO According to my daughter, you can dye hair with KoolAid Sue Clemenger wrote: > Apparently, you can dye fabrics quite nicely with a mixture of koolaid. > Not sure of proportions, etc. > I, for one, however, am not interested in wearing something dyed "Crazy > Berry Blue." > --sue > > Jane Williams wrote: > > > > On 4 Dec 2002 at 15:52, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > > > > Jane wrote: > > > > Sadly, most British squashes aren't juice. "Orange > > > > squash" is usually orange food colouring, orange > > > > flavouring, half a ton of sugar, and added Vitamin C > > > > to convince you it's healthy. > > > > > > Ah! We call that Kool Aid here across the pond. 8) > > > > Well, that explains a mystery. I'd heard of that, and > > assumed it was a dressing for burns :) > > > > If we call something "juice", it's juice. Mainly, > > anyway. Take fruit, and squeeze. Maybe add sugar, > > preservatives, colour, if it's going in a long-life > > carton, but the main content was once fruit. > > > > "Juice drink" would be a watered down version of the > > above. ("contains at least 10% real orange!") > > > > Then you get squashes with added juice. > > > > And at the bottom of the ladder, just "squash". Don't > > go there. > > > > BTW, the colourings used in the cheaper drinks stain > > cloth quite badly. But they're not fast enough to be > > used as dye, AFAIK. (There, costume content!) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 13:00:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30735 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:00:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Hx1l9021636; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Hx10S029304; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5HwC0S028749 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:58:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip54.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.54]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB5Hw7Z06537 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:58:07 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question Message-ID: <3DEF21FF.3820.272EDC4C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20021205.102440.-179017.2.catpurson@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:53:03 -0800 Status: RO > Were cartridge pleats used during the Tudor period or did they > come into vogue during the Elizabethan period? I am about to do my > Tudor skirt and would really rather do cartridge pleats because they > are easier than fooling with knife pleats, but can't find a picture > that doesn't have the arms hiding the waist. Cartridge pleats were used, as were knife pleats. They seem to have been used together at times. I don't have a URL but in the Holbein drawing of a lady (where he's done a front *and* a back view), there are obvious large cartridge pleats in the back. Some of the Breugel paintings also show this. There's another picture of a English court lady in a red dress with navy blue brocade undersleeves which shows the cartridge pleats at the side. However, it appears that she has some flat pleats to transition the front part to the back cartridge pleats (like 2 on each side). Unfortunately, the book which has the best picture of this is hiding/lost right now. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 13:10:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30764 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:10:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5I94l9023743; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5I910S005938; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5I8n0S005802 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:08:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip54.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.54]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB5I8ga11736 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:08:43 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question Message-ID: <3DEF2400.27511.2736B281@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005a01c29c79$ef475300$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:01:36 -0800 Status: RO >So, about where would you start the pleating? And the rest is sewn >together flat? When do they start pleating all the way around the >skirt? > So, about where would you start the pleating? And the rest is sewn > together flat? When do they start pleating all the way around the > skirt? The front is flat to just a little in front of the sides (at about the point of the hip), then there are about 2 knife pleats, then the rest is cartridge pleated. I use a coating wool or a wool meant for padding jackets (which is bouncy but not as dense as coating wool) as an insert in the cartridge pleats to give them more body. Since we don't (yet, I keep hoping some will come) have either any extant garments or tailors manuals to say exactly how this was done, this is what I've found to give the same effect. Jean Hunnisett in her "stage and screen" book on the Tudor period shows one method of doing it. She seems to use smaller cartridge pleats than I've found in paintings, however. By the way, her pattern for the turned back sleeves hangs better than any other pattern I've seen for them in other books. I still had to do a lot of experimentation to get them just right, but they are still better than any of the others. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 13:44:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30951 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:44:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5IfGl9029338; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:41:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5If10S026844; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB5Ie20S026030 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoQYRxuFvwuc/GhbCStEBwf++KOV2uU0Ng=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKANX4JL; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:39:02 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question Message-ID: <20021205.133841.-179017.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-10 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:38:40 -0500 Status: RO Well, it looks like I can get away with the cartridge pleats after all. I just don't feel like doing the math required for knife or box pleats. I hadn't planned to start the pleating until almost the side of the garment anyway, so all the tips seem to work out to doing it the way I wanted to. Thanks bunches. Don't know why I am being so fussy about a gown made of pink polished cotton anyhow. That alone makes it totally wrong. But it is pretty. Thanks for all the advice. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 13:56:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31138 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:56:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Is3l9002215; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Is10S005256; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5IrF0S004672 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:53:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-120-190.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.120.190]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANJ69454; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:45:14 GMT Message-ID: <034f01c29c8f$6cdbdd80$37634ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <200212051231.EAA15685@gw.retro.com> <051c01c29c65$68490100$957e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> <008001c29c79$71e2cca0$befc8218@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: Trains & skirt lifters (WAS Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:52:13 -0000 Status: RO >So how did women deal with trains when dancing? Were skirt lifters used, or did they hold their skirt up, or did people know to avoid them, Avoiding them is a bit plus I think, also you learn to dance in manner that swishes them out of the way most of the time. Kicking you partner until he learns not to step on them helps too :) > or were the dances written in such a way as to incorporate the trains? Not from any I've done :) Too many backwards steps they can be tricky... > Has anyone seen any period images of women with skirt lifters (either metal ones, loops sewn to the skirt, or someone just holding up their skirt while dancing)? Loops on trains that go onto your wrist work & I'm sure I've seen refs to, skirt lifters don't, I've tried dozens Skirt lifters are often said to be rather middle class, I've found no definate contempory refs to support that however. But let's face it if you are Upper class & have servants to repair your gowns, who cares if it gets ripped ? If you are really rich you might only wear a ballgown once anyway, before casting it asside or remodelling it. Certainly I was brought up not to wear the same ballgown twice, still have problems doing it & generally make a new Vicky ballgown per ball (hence the lack of space in my house !) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 14:14:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31320 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:14:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JD6l9005967; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:13:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JD4cJ016322; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:13:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JCNcJ015862 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:12:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f5f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.95]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C5F6F263085 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:12:21 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002801c29c92$8407b0d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thanks for the wig link MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:14:21 +0100 Status: RO Hello Marcus! Are you planning to have a wig made for you? So am i, and i am going to use it in april, so perhaps i should contakt him two, to be sure to get one in time! Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "marcus findlay-arthur" To: Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:27 AM Subject: [h-cost] Thanks for the wig link > Nicole thanks for the wig fellow's link. > > Marcus. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 14:21:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31372 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:21:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JJ2l9006870; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JJ0cJ019847; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JIEcJ019293 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:18:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f5f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.95]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1FF86263041 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:18:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005e01c29c93$55ae0a30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:20:12 +0100 Status: RO Guess what? I got 15 meters of sky blue Silk Taffeta from London today!!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 14:25:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31404 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:25:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JO3l9007793; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JO1cJ023106; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (mta6-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JNYcJ022851 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:23:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.8.191]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021205192332.SYUV21179.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:23:32 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20021205134522.56358.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:19:27 +0000 Status: RO > > Urgh... uhm... hmm... is it just me or are those big fat red roses a > tad OTT? > *shudder* Quite period I'm afraid although the Victorian versions were a good bit more attractive.Some frocks did incorporate fresh flowers but most were either fabric or wax and rather realistic. While I can't see the bertha area very well in the pic,I do feel she is missing the standard ribbon and lace version to create the mid 19thC Victorian look. > > No, seriously, I don't have a clue about this period and it struck me > as an > awfully ugly dress, therefore I would like to know, IS this historically > correct? Is this right or more a costumey costume? Its pretty close actually but still a translation.viz. what 'we' the consumers would believe they wore.The skirt is a tad too stiff for 1851 - probably got hoops under it when petticoats should fill it out.The puffed over-skirt is a take-off of a Worth design and the scale of the lace trim and the scalloped edge is wrong.The fit of the bodice seems more current than Victorian - it should fit without wrinkles and sit ontop of the voluminous skirts. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 14:34:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31455 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:34:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JX1l9009131; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JX1cJ028475; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JW6cJ028003 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:32:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f5f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.95]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D409262F87 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:32:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <00b201c29c95$46a95d80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20021205152918.2713.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dracula, was Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:34:06 +0100 Status: RO Hi, i got 5 minuttes to read a little h-costume emails, but i have given up to read all those send last week- sigh Oh yes, i love Orlando two, but i hate the large panier dress with those ruched pleats or what ever you call this with all the roses. (Was it blue?) It was hideous, and the tall wig looked like - i dont know what to say- Bjarne www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dracula, was Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] > --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > I > > I love the clothes in "Orlando"....a film many of my friends hate....clothes > > and all. No one is immune. > > Ohhhh Orlando, gorgeous, wonderful! I adore the 1700 justaucorps and big wig > and all he/she is wearing. Sure it is OTT, but it is wonderful, and actually > not that horiffically wrong. The red 1700 outfit is my favourite from the film, > what is yours? > > I must admit though that my favourite scene of 'em all is thingamy as the > singing angel. *BG* > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 14:35:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31472 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:35:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JT1l9008701; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JT0cJ026199; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JSdcJ025961 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:28:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp175.directcon.net [206.170.184.175]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gB5JRsZl013259; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:27:55 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021205113202.00f02400@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queries about coifs, biggins and headrails In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:32:02 -0800 Status: RO At 09:24 AM 12/05/2002 +0000, Joy Shillaker wrote: >I wonder if any Elizabethan costumers could help me please. > >Is there a difference between a biggins and a coif and if so what is it? > the way I classify them, is that the biggins is the baby bonnet shaped item, usually with a strap or ties under the chin. The coif is the one that has a point on the forehead and sides that curve in at the cheeks. However, I don't know that the distinction was there in the period. In fact, I think it's likely that "coif" meant any number of styles of closely fitted headwear, rather the way we use "cap" today. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 14:42:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31517 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:42:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Jf2l9010501; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Jf1cJ003339; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Je0cJ002794 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AB8FBE401C8; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:39:59 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB8F53A010C; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:39:59 -0600 Message-ID: <002001c29c96$1d5173e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <200212051628.gB5GS74B003317@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Andy's Christmas Present X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:40:06 -0500 Status: RO Maryann, When my son was in high school, he wanted to go to Japan and study. After he flunked Japanese language class, he changed his mind. Now he is in a computer tech college... still living at home. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 14:51:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31630 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:51:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Jo1l9011611; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Jo0cJ007824; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JnecJ007600 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:49:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f5f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.95]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B1CD22631D4 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:49:39 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <00ed01c29c97$bc0a46a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Madame Pompadour in London Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:51:42 +0100 Status: RO Hi. Someone i know went to a lecture in London on National Portrait Gallery. Aileen Ribeiro was giving a lecture about the fashions in Madame de Pompadours times. Do you know what she said? She said that paniers were not used in Pompadours times!!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 14:58:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31667 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:58:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Jv2l9012340; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Jv0cJ011923; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (mta6-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JuhcJ011731 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:56:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.8.191]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021205195641.TSUO21179.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:56:41 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <002801c29c92$8407b0d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: <7C506C3B-0893-11D7-9A39-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Subject: [h-cost] Yep Bjarne/Thanks for the wig link Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:52:36 +0000 Status: RO Hello Bjarne, Long time no chat! > Are you planning to have a wig made for you? Absolutely! Nicole looks so fab and it sounds so easy that I figure I may as well help the reenactment authenticity bit a long a bit.I need something to fill out my turbans!besides my big head that is!!! : >>> > So am i, and i am going to use it in april, so perhaps i should contakt > him > two, to be sure to get one in time! I don't have a deadline and if this move to Ireland goes thru',I can still get to the UK easily. You do 18thC don't you for your own stuff don't you?What sort of wig did you have in mind? Marcus. Who could just possibly go 18thC with a little temptation. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 15:01:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31694 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:01:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5K0Dl9013145; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:00:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5K03cJ014004; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Jx4cJ013309 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:59:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.189.1205c350 (3858) for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:58:55 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <189.1205c350.2b2109ff@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_189.1205c350.2b2109ff_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10634 Subject: [h-cost] My Favorite Orlando Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:58:55 EST Status: RO --part1_189.1205c350.2b2109ff_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 10:48:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes: > The red 1700 outfit is my favourite from the film, > what is yours? > I must admit being partial to the very 1st Elizabethan outfit she...er...he falls asleep under the tree in. Those gold silk stocking! I hated the 18th century stuff at first, But then I "got it"...what they were saying about the 18th century and its restrictions, both social and physical. "Baroque" as in "grotesque". Y'know "Dangerous Liaisons" is not correctly costumed either...in reality. The story is supposed to be in the late 1780s or 90s, if I remember correctly. Why did James Acheson put it in mid century? [and the director let him do what he wanted] He wanted it to be non-political. The real story has French Revolution overtones. He thought the screen play was distilled down to be more about the characters and love play. So he designed what he called "Coffee Table book" gowns....gorgeous to look at. Still, they tell some things about the characters. That yellow & black carriage outfit is beautiful but somehow conveys a sense of hypocrisy. The color is somehow trying too much. [does that make sense?] The artificiality of Glenn Close's "hooting" gown clearly says it all. I love good design! --part1_189.1205c350.2b2109ff_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 10:48:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:


The red 1700 outfit is my favourite from the film,
what is yours?


I must admit being partial to the very 1st Elizabethan outfit she...er...he falls asleep under the tree in. Those gold silk stocking!

I hated the 18th century stuff at first, But then I "got it"...what they were saying about the 18th century and its restrictions, both social and physical. "Baroque" as in "grotesque".

Y'know "Dangerous Liaisons" is not correctly costumed either...in reality. The story is supposed to be in the late 1780s or 90s, if I remember correctly. Why did James Acheson put it in mid century? [and the director let him do what he wanted] He wanted it to be non-political. The real story has French Revolution overtones. He thought the screen play was distilled down to be more about the characters and love play. So he designed what he called "Coffee Table book" gowns....gorgeous to look at. Still, they tell some things about the characters. That yellow & black carriage outfit is beautiful but somehow conveys a sense of hypocrisy. The color is somehow trying too much. [does that make sense?] The artificiality of Glenn Close's "hooting" gown clearly says it all.

I love good design! --part1_189.1205c350.2b2109ff_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 15:06:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31712 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:06:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5K56l9014301; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:05:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5K52cJ017337; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5K4icJ017119 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:04:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1c8.2a291aa (3858) for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:04:02 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1c8.2a291aa.2b210b32@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1c8.2a291aa.2b210b32_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10634 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:04:02 EST Status: RO --part1_1c8.2a291aa.2b210b32_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 2:24:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, marcus.cuttingtable@virgin.net writes: > Some frocks did incorporate fresh flowers but most were > either fabric or wax and rather realistic. > I have an 1840s bonnet with silk and paper morning glories on it. They are hand made and look real. Like the kind you see on fences in cow pastures. > While I can't see the bertha area very well in the pic,I do feel she is > missing the standard ribbon and lace version to create the mid 19thC > Victorian look. > There's something wrong with the skirt. It just doesn't look right. Maybe the cut is wrong, The overskirt that looks like an awning [yuk!] may have been done but it looks wrong somehow. --part1_1c8.2a291aa.2b210b32_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 2:24:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, marcus.cuttingtable@virgin.net writes:


Some frocks did incorporate fresh flowers but most were
either fabric or wax and rather realistic.



I have an 1840s bonnet with silk and paper morning glories on it. They are hand made and look real. Like the kind you see on fences in cow pastures.




While I can't see the bertha area very well in the pic,I do feel she is
missing the standard ribbon and lace version to create the mid 19thC
Victorian look.


There's something wrong with the skirt. It just doesn't look right. Maybe the cut is wrong, The overskirt that looks like an awning [yuk!] may have been done but it looks wrong somehow. --part1_1c8.2a291aa.2b210b32_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 15:10:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31736 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:10:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5K89l9014989; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:08:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5K82cJ019190; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5K7DcJ018697 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-207.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.207]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B46D819FB59 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:07:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3DEFB1E7.9000604@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080800030609040803020403" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 21:07:03 +0100 Status: RO --------------080800030609040803020403 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Quite period I'm afraid although the Victorian versions were a good > bit more attractive.Some frocks did incorporate fresh flowers but most > were either fabric or wax and rather realistic. > > While I can't see the bertha area very well in the pic,I do feel she > is missing the standard ribbon and lace version to create the mid > 19thC Victorian look > > Its pretty close actually but still a translation.viz. what 'we' the > consumers would believe they wore.The skirt is a tad too stiff for > 1851 - probably got hoops under it when petticoats should fill it > out.The puffed over-skirt is a take-off of a Worth design and the > scale of the lace trim and the scalloped edge is wrong.The fit of the > bodice seems more current than Victorian - it should fit without > wrinkles and sit ontop of the voluminous skirts. You mean that the > bodice is seperate? I don't know much of this period but, I think I have to agree with you. The colours used in this dress are awful. Light purple or pink for the dress and roses, and white for the lace, will look a lot better. I also think that the sleeves are a little to big and puffy. What kind of fabrick would they have used? Silk or also other fabricks? Greetings, Deredere --------------080800030609040803020403 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Quite period I'm afraid although the Victorian versions were a good bit more attractive.Some frocks did incorporate fresh flowers but most were either fabric or wax and rather realistic.

While I can't see the bertha area very well in the pic,I do feel she is missing the standard ribbon and lace version to create the mid 19thC Victorian look

Its pretty close actually but still a translation.viz. what 'we' the consumers would believe they wore.The skirt is a tad too stiff for 1851 - probably got hoops under it when petticoats should fill it out.The puffed over-skirt is a take-off of a Worth design and the scale of the lace trim and the scalloped edge is wrong.The fit of the bodice seems more current than Victorian - it should fit without wrinkles and sit ontop of the voluminous skirts. You mean that the bodice is seperate?
I don't know much of this period but, I think I have to agree with you. The colours used in this dress are awful. Light purple or pink for the dress and roses,  and white for the lace, will look a lot better. I also think that the sleeves are a little to big and puffy. What kind of fabrick would they have used? Silk or also other fabricks?

Greetings,
        Deredere
--------------080800030609040803020403-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 15:28:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31808 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:28:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5KR5l9018376; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:27:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5KR0cJ000770; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f12.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5KQscJ000652 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:26:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:26:49 -0800 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 20:26:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2002 20:26:49.0065 (UTC) FILETIME=[A36FF590:01C29C9C] Subject: [h-cost] 1851 pattern Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 12:26:48 -0800 Status: RO I believe the colors of that pattern were chosen for the occasion. That pattern is being sold as a 15th birthday spanish gown. I can't spell that word, but it's a big deal on a girls big birthday to have a ball etc. and that is the advertising on this pattern. It may have been taken from the fashion plate, but I don't think it was intended for authenticity enthusiasts. http://64.4.36.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=115aa2ad37213ab2cc1fa1d1d2edf3fc&lat=1039119406&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2ecostumes%2eorg%2fhistory%2fvictorian%2fwomen%2ffashionplates%2fgrahams1851b%2ejpg Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 15:30:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31838 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:30:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5KT8l9018939; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:29:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5KT8cJ002204; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:29:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5KSZcJ001866 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:28:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from ANALYSIS.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.86]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id gB5KSZx15476 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:28:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205121110.02c99100@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie In-Reply-To: <189.1205c350.2b2109ff@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1340703==_.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] Acheson's bee dress was: My Favorite Orlando Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 12:19:56 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_1340703==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:58 PM 12/5/2002 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 12/5/2002 10:48:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, >nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes: > >Y'know "Dangerous Liaisons" is not correctly costumed either...in reality. >The story is supposed to be in the late 1780s or 90s, if I remember >correctly. Why did James Acheson put it in mid century? [and the director >let him do what he wanted] He wanted it to be non-political. The real >story has French Revolution overtones. He thought the screen play was >distilled down to be more about the characters and love play. So he >designed what he called "Coffee Table book" gowns....gorgeous to look at. >Still, they tell some things about the characters. That yellow & black >carriage outfit is beautiful but somehow conveys a sense of hypocrisy. The >color is somehow trying too much. [does that make sense?] The >artificiality of Glenn Close's "hooting" gown clearly says it all. Why did he use 19th c lace on the caps when he wanted to shop around longer for 18th c pieces to use? I've been told it had to do with a lack of available time. He had to have the whole design done in 6 weeks. This one I know. The yellow and black visiting dress is intended to resemble a bee's coloring. She was going to be stirring the hornet's nest - busy as a bee >; ) Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_1340703==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:58 PM 12/5/2002 -0500, you wrote:
In a message dated 12/5/2002 10:48:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:

Y'know "Dangerous Liaisons" is not correctly costumed either...in reality. The story is supposed to be in the late 1780s or 90s, if I remember correctly. Why did James Acheson put it in mid century? [and the director let him do what he wanted] He wanted it to be non-political. The real story has French Revolution overtones. He thought the screen play was distilled down to be more about the characters and love play. So he designed what he called "Coffee Table book" gowns....gorgeous to look at. Still, they tell some things about the characters. That yellow & black carriage outfit is beautiful but somehow conveys a sense of hypocrisy. The color is somehow trying too much. [does that make sense?] The artificiality of Glenn Close's "hooting" gown clearly says it all.

Why did he use 19th c lace on the caps when he wanted to shop around longer for 18th c pieces to use? I've been told it had to do with a lack of available time. He had to have the whole design done in 6 weeks.

This one I know. The yellow and black visiting dress is intended to resemble a bee's coloring. She was going to be stirring the hornet's nest - busy as a bee >; )

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_1340703==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 16:23:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32042 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:23:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5LM3l9027338; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:22:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5LM1QB004700; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5LLlQB004555 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:21:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id NAA18153 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:43:42 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200212052143.NAA18153@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Andy's Christmas Present Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:43:42 -0800 (PST) Status: RO mabse@attbi.com wrote: > He is also a fencer and is going to take traditional > Japanese fencing classes when he is in Japan. I assume that this is the same as > a Samuri. Does anyone have a reference for patterns for traditional Japanese > fencing garb? I thought I would make him a costume for his trip. > Would the Japanese have used linen or wool? Or, were they pretty much limited > to silk? Does anyone know anything about historic Japanese dress. Maybe this > will lead me to some research on Questia. Look at this page to see what is typically worn for Kendo (japanese fencing): http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/kensamun.html The keikogi and hakama are worn for kata (slow, posed exercises), the padded armor for actual fencing with shinai. Kata are done with wooden boken, often quite heavy to build up the arm muscles. Historic costume is great, but actual fencing gear is a better idea if he wants to take classes. My husband used to be very active before he destroyed his knee while practicing on astroturf in college. He still does kata with boken and sai (those weird three-pronged metal knives). In fact, I bought him a new set of sai for our anniversary last year. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 16:25:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32057 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:25:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5LO4l9027625; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:24:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5LO3QB006109; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5LNiQB005872 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:23:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip2.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.2]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB5LNcZ04500 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:23:39 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question Message-ID: <3DEF522B.522.27EB0F2B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20021205.133841.-179017.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:18:35 -0800 Status: RO > Well, it looks like I can get away with the cartridge pleats > after all. I just don't feel like doing the math required for knife > or box pleats. I hadn't planned to start the pleating until almost > the side of the garment anyway, so all the tips seem to work out to > doing it the way I wanted to. Thanks bunches. Don't know why I am > being so fussy about a gown made of pink polished cotton anyhow. That > alone makes it totally wrong. But it is pretty. But it is a learning experience too. Perhaps you are considering this a "usable" mockup? (I deliberately make my mockups out of plain black fabric so that all it takes, if the pattern works, is to put a little trim on it and I have a wearable dress.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 16:31:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32079 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:31:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5LU6l9028323; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5LU3QB009884; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5LT7QB009291 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:29:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id NAA18274 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:51:03 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200212052151.NAA18274@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:51:03 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Kate Pinner > > According to my daughter, you can dye hair with KoolAid It's true. We used to do that before all the new funky-colored dyes became available. Purples and reds took the best. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 16:42:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32114 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:42:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Lf5l9029583; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:41:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Lf1wF016268; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5LdIQB015209 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:39:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f95.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.149]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AF6CC5EE482 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:39:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002001c29ca7$0ead8700$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <7C506C3B-0893-11D7-9A39-0003936A9570@virgin.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yep Bjarne/Thanks for the wig link MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:41:23 +0100 Status: RO I want a grey wig with 2 rolls on each side, and a bag in the neck. It is to match my fully embroidered court suit wich i have finished all the embroidery for. It only needs to be sewn together. Time? 1770ies Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "marcus findlay-arthur" To: Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:52 PM Subject: [h-cost] Yep Bjarne/Thanks for the wig link > Hello Bjarne, > > Long time no chat! > > > Are you planning to have a wig made for you? > > Absolutely! > Nicole looks so fab and it sounds so easy that I figure I may as well > help the reenactment authenticity bit a long a bit.I need something to > fill out my turbans!besides my big head that is!!! : >>> > > > So am i, and i am going to use it in april, so perhaps i should contakt > > him > > two, to be sure to get one in time! > > I don't have a deadline and if this move to Ireland goes thru',I can > still get to the UK easily. > You do 18thC don't you for your own stuff don't you?What sort of wig did > you have in mind? > > Marcus. > Who could just possibly go 18thC with a little temptation. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 16:46:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32121 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:46:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Li8l9000141; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Li1wF018162; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5LhqwF018033 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:43:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id OAA19337 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:05:47 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200212052205.OAA19337@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:05:47 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > > I don't know much of this period but, I think I have to agree with you. > The colours used in this dress are awful. Light purple or pink for the > dress and roses, and white for the lace, will look a lot better. I also > think that the sleeves are a little to big and puffy. What kind of > fabrick would they have used? Silk or also other fabricks? Unfortunately, the victorians _loved_ color combinations that we would consider hideous. I saw a very similar dress made up in violet and fuschia. It was horrible, but very, very period. Somewhere, I have a book that a writer from the period bemoans english women's lack of taste in colors. Since all the photos we have from the period are black and white, we sometimes forget what colors were actually used. I've seen plenty of dresses from that period that combine colors like brown and blue and purple all in the same dress. I agree the roses are too bright, they'd probably be a more realistic color. However, the big pattern companies do their designs with availability of trims in mind. You _can_ find better roses, but you have to hunt a bit. One other oddity of victorian ballgowns is that often the flowers in the hair were artificial, but the flowers on the gown might be real. The exact opposite of what we'd do. They also liked doing things like combining lace and fur trims in a manner that we'd find hideous. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 17:07:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32212 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:07:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5M4Dl9002678; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:04:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5M41wF000252; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5M3WwF029869 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:03:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id OAA19436 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:25:27 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200212052225.OAA19436@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Trains & skirt lifters (WAS Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:25:27 -0800 (PST) Status: RO "Kendra Van Cleave" wrote: > Re: the comment that skirts shouldn't trail on the ground for dancing: > > Yes, but there was a period in the mid- to late-1870's when trains were de > rigeur for ALL skirts. There were tons of complaints that women wore > loooong trains when out walking, which ended up trailing in the mud. Part of that was snobbery. A fine lady was supposed to have a carriage. ;} > I do agree that most modern day dancers don't have an idea about floorcraft, > but my guess is that balls could be just as crowded in the 19th century as > they are today at the Gaskell ball. Possibly not, unless recent Gaskell balls have been much less crowded than when I quit attending a couple years back. People were more likely to sit out and talk. > So how did women deal with trains when dancing? Were skirt lifters used, or > did they hold their skirt up, or did people know to avoid them, or were the > dances written in such a way as to incorporate the trains? Has anyone seen > any period images of women with skirt lifters (either metal ones, loops sewn > to the skirt, or someone just holding up their skirt while dancing)? The major hazard was not your _partner_, but everyone else on the floor stepping on your skirts. Especially with turning dances where one often has one's back to the line of dance. If one really does turn 180 degrees with each set of steps (instead of the quarter turns many people employ), your skirt train will whip around towards your ankles rather than the floor. However, on a crowded floor, it's very difficult to do this. I have memories of actually leaping over other ladies' skirts while negotiating the floor. > I'm just wondering how the ladies in "Too Early" got around the floor > without massive damage! > http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/tissot/p-tissot16.htm They didn't. I've also seen the comments about destroyed and ruined dresses. However, if _you_ don't want to have to rebuild your skirt every time you wear it (goodness gracious, you're wearing a ballgown more than once! scandalous!), you might consider a wrist loop. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 17:18:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32277 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:18:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5MC3l9003471; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5MC2wF004742; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41210.mail.yahoo.com (web41210.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB5MBTwF004458 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:11:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021205221124.7818.qmail@web41210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [143.192.1.15] by web41210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:11:24 PST From: Sheila W-S Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021205185401.5247.46228.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:11:24 -0800 (PST) Status: RO >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question >>Well, it looks like I can get away with the cartridge >>pleats after all. I just don't feel like doing the math >>required for knife or box pleats. I hadn't planned to >>start the pleating until almost the side of the garment >>anyway, so all the tips seem to work out to doing it the >>way I wanted to. Thanks bunches. Don't know why I am >>being so fussy about a gown made of pink polished cotton >>anyhow. That alone makes it totally wrong. But it is >>pretty. I don't use cartridge pleats on Tudor gowns, after reading Sarah L. Goodman's article on Farthingales and Bumrolls.... http://www.elizabethanlady.com/farthingales.html I looked at her pictures and the the holbein tudor lady (shown at the bottom) and don't believe that these pleats were done by cartridge pleating. I think it was knife pleats that were lined/stuffed and stacked on top of each other to give that layered look. Also I don't use math to do my knife or box pleats. I simple pin the ends of my skirt to my bodice, pin the center back and the middle of the skirt. Then I find the middle of the bodice at these points, and the middle of the skirt at these points and pin them. I continue to half the skirt and bodice until its small enough to pleat and then I start at one end and lay down the folds of material and pin them. Instant and evenly spaced pleats without having to use a measuring tape. YMMV, Sheila Phoenix, AZ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 17:32:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32334 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:32:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5MUXl9005560; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:30:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5MUXwF015422; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:30:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5MTXwF014859 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from JAzo478796@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.7b.3be0b73 (3874) for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:27:42 -0500 (EST) From: JAzo478796@aol.com Message-ID: <7b.3be0b73.2b212cde@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_7b.3be0b73.2b212cde_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10577 Subject: [h-cost] how many of us are there? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:27:42 EST Status: RO --part1_7b.3be0b73.2b212cde_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, Guys: Anybody have any idea how many of us there are on the h-cost mailing list? Thanks for your best guestimates, Julia --part1_7b.3be0b73.2b212cde_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, Guys:
Anybody have any idea how many of us there are on the h-cost mailing list?
Thanks for your best guestimates,
Julia --part1_7b.3be0b73.2b212cde_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 17:32:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32338 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:32:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5MUfl9005587; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:30:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5MUewF015507; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:30:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB5MS8wF014087 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:28:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021205222807.27871.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 22:28:07 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yep Bjarne/Thanks for the wig link To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <002001c29ca7$0ead8700$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:28:07 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I want a grey wig with 2 rolls on each side, and a bag in the neck. It is to > match my fully embroidered court suit wich i have finished all the > embroidery for. It only needs to be sewn together. > Time? 1770ies Then I do suggest to contact derek, don't forget to mention that I sent you, Nicole with the 1660s wig and the 1700 wig for the fontange and with ben's 1700 periwig where the first one got thrown out by Colin mistakenly and we had to shell out 300 quid for a second one. ;-) He'll know then... :-))) He's lovely, a pleasure to work with. expensive, but hey, quality doesn't come cheap, and on top of it all he is SUCH a nice chap. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 17:33:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32346 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:33:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5MU5l9005443; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5MU3wF015152; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5MTGwF014721 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:29:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-0ccsjoa.cable.mindspring.com ([24.206.79.10] helo=earthlink.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18K4Ud-0006Ca-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:29:15 -0800 Message-ID: <3DEFD302.CB57E1F6@earthlink.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor of Aquitaine References: <3DEF062F.F5D2EA66@earthlink.net> <3DEF147F.1000704@misc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: perronnelle@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:28:18 -0600 Status: RO Theresa Eacker wrote: > an overhead view: > http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/1044/eleanor.html Of the three, this is closest to what I need. I just wish it were bigger. :) Thanks, --Charlene -- Official sign near door: Door Alarmed. Hand-printed sign nearby: Window frightened. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 17:53:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32422 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:53:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Mq2l9007875; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Mq1wF027236; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5MpjwF027073 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:51:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-58-249-115.s115.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.249.115] helo=rcn.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 18K4qN-0005Wt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:51:44 -0500 Message-ID: <3DEFD880.2AC99F7C@rcn.com> From: Catelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-RCN010799 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20021205185401.5247.46228.Mailman@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Dancing in Gowns with Trains Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:51:44 -0500 Status: RO > From: "Kendra Van Cleave" > Subject: Trains & skirt lifters (WAS Re: [h-cost] FO: 1874-77 evening reception dress) > > - Kendra > > From: "Melanie Wilson" > > >So how did women deal with trains when dancing? Were skirt lifters used, > or > did they hold their skirt up, or did people know to avoid them, > > Avoiding them is a bit plus I think, also you learn to dance in manner that > swishes them out of the way most of the time. > > > or were the > dances written in such a way as to incorporate the trains? > > Not from any I've done :) Too many backwards steps they can be tricky... I learned an 1860's waltz & an 1890's. The '60's waltz (no train) starts with the gentleman's back to the center of the floor & the lady's back towards the seat. Line of direction is 'over hands'. After three beats, the lady has her back to the center of the room & line of direction is 'over elbows'. All steps are forward or in place; nobody steps backwards. The 1890's waltz, when at least some ballgowns were trained, starts with the gentleman's back to line of direction. The dance starts with his taking a step backwards, two turning steps, and the lady then takes a step back. The turning should be neat enough that her train gets out of her way. I don't know when the transition took place, and I don't believe it would be possible to have a partial transition, although I am only an intermediate vintage dancer. Very early in my costuming, I made a vaguely Regency gown with a two foot train. I learned to dance a dos a' dos (do-si-do) fairly easily, because the train got out of my way enough. > Mel Ann in CT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 17:54:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32433 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:54:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Mr3l9007994; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Mr2wF027798; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5MqEwF027340 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:52:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16423 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:00:50 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? In-Reply-To: <7b.3be0b73.2b212cde@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:00:50 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 JAzo478796@aol.com wrote: > Anybody have any idea how many of us there are on the h-cost mailing list? According to the online info page, there are 303 regular and 164 on digest. There may be some duplicate subscriptions, of course. That's low. I seem to remember a time when we topped 800. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 18:16:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32535 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:16:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NF6l9010576; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:15:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NF4wF010188; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NEDwF009617 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:14:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from p49-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.177] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18K5C6-0004BP-00; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 12:14:11 +1300 Message-ID: <007d01c29cb4$04b803d0$b1cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:14:09 +1300 Status: RO > Quite period I'm afraid although the Victorian versions were a good bit > more attractive.Some frocks did incorporate fresh flowers but most were > either fabric or wax and rather realistic. Not quite the same decade but in Fashion and Reality (or Edwardian and Victorian Fashion a photographic survey depending on whether you have the original book or the Dover reprint) the author mentions that at time fake flowers were used in the hair and real one on the dress. That was about the 1870s though. I don't know her source, but it was interesting;) I know wax orange blossoms can still be found on hair pieces froma bit later on... michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 18:17:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32549 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:17:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NG3l9010823; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NG2wF010802; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd4mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NF6wF010207 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:15:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd3mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr2so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.178]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6O00IB25UANB@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:13:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml3so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml3so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.147]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6O00GAR5UAF2@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:13:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from orb.shaw.ca (h24-80-195-62.gv.shawcable.net [24.80.195.62]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.6 (built Apr 26 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6O0015D5U9G2@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:13:22 -0700 (MST) From: kris Subject: Drinks as dye - Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question In-reply-to: <007301c29c4b$daec6180$8a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> X-Sender: ionization@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20021205151225.00b2d350@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3DEF09F5.5489.26852631@localhost> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 15:13:29 -0800 Status: RO >Over here, I have heard of quilters using Kool Aid to dye fabrics. Don't >know how well it would work, or how fast it would be, but I think I would >prefer to use more reliable methods. Kool Aid works really well on wool. My friend made a grape and lemonade plaid shawl for a class project :] they still smell fruity, but the colors have lasted 4 or 5 washings. kris _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 18:20:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32563 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:20:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NJ1l9011472; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NJ0wF012749; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NIVwF012423 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:18:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from p49-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.177] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18K5GH-0003R5-00; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 12:18:29 +1300 Message-ID: <008501c29cb4$9ef492b0$b1cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:18:27 +1300 Status: RO > According to the online info page, there are 303 regular and 164 on > digest. There may be some duplicate subscriptions, of course. I was just at the page last night looking for some archives (which are impossible to find on the site btw. I even looked at info pages for other lists to see if I could find the right directory to no avail). michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 18:39:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32620 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:39:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NYAl9013635; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:34:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NY2wF021362; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NXJwF020834 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:33:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB5NtlYc011970; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:55:47 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gB5NtkGJ011968; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:55:46 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, "Jane Williams" Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <3DEF09F5.23377.26852753@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3DEF09F5.23377.26852753@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200212051855.46481.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB5NXJwF020834 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:55:46 -0500 Status: RO On Thursday 05 December 2002 03:10 am, Jane Williams wrote: > On 4 Dec 2002 at 18:54, Kate Pinner wrote: > > Me: [text cut here] > Well, a courgette is a baby marrow, so yes, sort of. > Courgettes are up to say 10 inches long and about > an inch thick. Marrows are say 18 inches long and > maybe six inches thick. Same plant, though > different varieties get bred for the two purposes. And > then there's the prize-winning Giant Marrows for > village flower shows, about which many jokes are > made. > > I've always been told that if an American recipe talks > about "zucchini", you should use courgette. What > size do you think a zucchini is? Maybe I've been > getting it wrong. The zucchinis I see in supermarkets near me are in the range between what you've called courgettes and what you've called marrows. (Personally, I don't eat them myself, so that's all the data I have.) -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 18:56:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32687 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:56:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5No4l9015411; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:50:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5No2wF000928; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NnUwF000471 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:49:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NphYv020512 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:51:44 -0800 Message-ID: <3DEFE67C.7040607@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor of Aquitaine References: <3DEF062F.F5D2EA66@earthlink.net> <3DEF147F.1000704@misc.com> <3DEFD302.CB57E1F6@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 15:51:24 -0800 Status: RO To Charlene- I just transferred the graphic to Appleworks, used the drawing feature and stretched to a much bigger size. Do you have anything available like that? Hope that helps, Theresa Eacker Charlene Charette wrote: > Theresa Eacker wrote: > > >>an overhead view: >>http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/1044/eleanor.html >> > > Of the three, this is closest to what I need. I just wish it were > bigger. :) > > Thanks, > --Charlene > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 18:59:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32701 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:59:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Nw2l9016296; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5Nw1wF005273; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NvuwF005177 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:57:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB60KEYc012130; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:20:20 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gB60K8l0012127; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:20:08 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Deredere & Owen Iskander Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <3DEF567E.6050006@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <3DEF567E.6050006@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200212051920.08531.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB5NvuwF005177 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:20:08 -0500 Status: RO On Thursday 05 December 2002 08:37 am, Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > Hi, > Has anyone noticed that the new Simplicity pattern 5724 looks a lot like > the dress in a fashion plate from 1851... :-) > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/grahams1851b. >jpg http://www.simplicity.com/s2b.htm My guess is that it was intentional. Simplicity has been doing a growing line of patterns intended to be used to reproduce historic styles. My impression is that the patterns are only generically period in flavor and not terribly accurate. 5724 appears to be better than most to me, except the shape of the bodice looks slightly wrong, somehow.... -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 19:08:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32723 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:08:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6074l9017048; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6072wF009837; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (mta6-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5JhTcJ004539 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:43:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.8.191]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021205194327.TLLK21179.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:43:27 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dracula, was Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20021205081033.20388.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:39:22 +0000 Status: RO > Nonsense to your nonsense, because there are MANY points of view. Okay, > so > don't have a clue about clothing of the 19th c. and don't care either, Well the Designers were 'creative' but it was a movie and not an historical reenactment event based on fact. > and yes > I would probably hate it if they did something horrendeous to 17th c. > clothing, Very probable.I feel that way about badly constructed or inaccurate representations of my own favourite period. > I personally took Dracula as totally fantasy, and that's why I adored > the > costumes, absolutely adored them. Am with you on this one.I thought it was wonderful and would be proud to claim the work if I'd ever done it.Loved it them and I realised recently when it was on the 'box' again that I still love it.Its up there with 'Dangerous Liaisons' for sheer visual treats in my book. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 19:08:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32727 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:08:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB607Gl9017077; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:07:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB607GwF009969; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:07:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB5NrUwF002606 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:53:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.24.13]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021205235327.GYFX15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:53:27 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <1c8.2a291aa.2b210b32@aol.com> Message-Id: <8FC0BBDB-08B4-11D7-9076-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Subject: [h-cost] 1851 model for Simplicity pattern - skirt,got it! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:49:22 +0000 Status: RO Its like those Scarlett O' Hara collector dolls that were around a few years ago - the green muslin number that flares out to the ankles in rows of frills as I remember. In 1851 the crinoline wasn't actually available and women depended upon several layers of petticoats to achieve the bell shape.Thats the issue - the skirt doesn't 'bell' properly for the period.The fall of the petticoats,say some eight in all of various weights and fabrics would bloom out from the waist and at mid thigh measure would fall down to the floor in heavier folds,not flare smoothly.With the standard 18 yard measure in the hem line of a summer frock in taffetta or mouseline you get these fab,rich folds of fabric that whisper when moved by the wearer. Thinking back to the examples that I saw in the various South African museums when I was Victorian-mad and the Worth examples at the Met,this is a later pattern intended for a crinoline. The Simplicity pic spreads out almost conically like an 1861-1864 silhouette. Do I envy you!!! A silk and paper 1840's bonnet! You should see the skill some of the later ribbon work used for floral decoration - astounding.You want to smell them in some instances.Really,really beautiful and of course lost with all the frou frou going on. The over skirt is also a later fashion feature and had something to do with the Pompadour craze which was later than '51 by a few years,five to seven years max,if I remember my fashion plates but I am open to correction on this point.For most of the 50's the skirt shape was bell,full and weighty around the feet.Sort of like a Lely or Van Dyke would be wrong without the folds. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 19:09:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32731 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:09:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6082l9017153; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6081wF010363; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB607dwF010196 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:07:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.24.13]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021206000737.HGWI15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:07:37 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model - bodice,sleeve & betha Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-699835037 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DEFB1E7.9000604@kabelfoon.nl> Message-Id: <750C4555-08B6-11D7-9076-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:02:57 +0000 Status: RO --Apple-Mail-1-699835037 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Dereder, Whether the bodice would be separate would depend upon where it was made and for what function.French fashion was more formal and thus separate bodices were common for Court or Socially prominent events.Not so in England or the USA to the same extent. Generally the bodice is made up separately and attached to the skirt on the top of the pleats and gathers.It looks separate but isn't.(Morning or afternoon frocks usually have a round waist but evening gowns tend to have the regular front and back boned points to the waist of the bodice. I'd also say that the sleeve is a tad large if being used for a historic pattern.It should fit a bit closer to the arm so that the bertha would fit over it smoothly and emphasize the bosom and shoulders of the wearer. And this pattern really really screams for a bertha to be 1851. Marcus. --Apple-Mail-1-699835037 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Dereder, Whether the bodice would be separate would depend upon where it was made and for what function.French fashion was more formal and thus separate bodices were common for Court or Socially prominent events.Not so in England or the USA to the same extent. Generally the bodice is made up separately and attached to the skirt on the top of the pleats and gathers.It looks separate but isn't.(Morning or afternoon frocks usually have a round waist but evening gowns tend to have the regular front and back boned points to the waist of the bodice. I'd also say that the sleeve is a tad large if being used for a historic pattern.It should fit a bit closer to the arm so that the bertha would fit over it smoothly and emphasize the bosom and shoulders of the wearer. And this pattern really really screams for a bertha to be 1851. Marcus. --Apple-Mail-1-699835037-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 19:11:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32741 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:11:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6093l9017245; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6092wF010916; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB608hwF010762 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gB608hKK010758 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:08:43 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? Message-ID: <20021205170842.F2601@net.indra.com> References: <008501c29cb4$9ef492b0$b1cfadcb@michaela> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <008501c29cb4$9ef492b0$b1cfadcb@michaela> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:08:43 -0700 Status: RO > I was just at the page last night looking for some archives (which are > impossible to find on the site btw. I even looked at info pages for other > lists to see if I could find the right directory to no avail). > > michaela Here's the text as it appears on http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume To search by keyword, use Eric Praetzel's searchable archive at: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives Eric made some changes to the search method a few months ago that speed the search but reduce your ability to search to just the name and subject line ... not much use for many questions. I use the "old" search function, which I believe is still available from his main search page, and I hope it stays that way. Be as specific as you can in your search term (you can pick only one), and you'll get faster searches if you do only one year's worth of posts at a time. The results are grouped by month, so when you click on one of the search results, you'll get that whole month's worth of postings -- a big download, but useful for reading whole threads. -- Method 2: For older archives (1993-1996), go to Franchesca Havas' site at http://www.io.com/~ches/h-costume/ . You can ftp or download zipped files. I'm not sure if Ches has later archives too. I hope *someone* is keeping them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 19:29:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00358 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:29:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60SEl9018992; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:28:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60SDwF020116; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:28:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60RZwF019865 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:27:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.24.13]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021206002733.HVMW15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:27:33 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yep Bjarne/Thanks for the wig link Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <002001c29ca7$0ead8700$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: <4F3EE817-08B9-11D7-9076-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:23:22 +0000 Status: RO On Thursday, December 5, 2002, at 09:41 pm, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I want a grey wig with 2 rolls on each side, and a bag in the neck. It > is to > match my fully embroidered court suit wich i have finished all the > embroidery for. It only needs to be sewn together. > Time? 1770ies Very nice indeed.Keep me posted.Mine will be much simpler since I need it to roll and coil up under the turbans.Promise to have pics taken. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 19:32:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00375 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:32:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60V1l9019228; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60V0wF021473; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:31:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60U8wF021062 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:30:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.191.115f4b83 (24895) for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:29:51 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <191.115f4b83.2b21497e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1851 pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_191.115f4b83.2b21497e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:29:50 EST Status: RO --part1_191.115f4b83.2b21497e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 3:27:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, distantdesigns@hotmail.com writes: > That > pattern is being sold as a 15th birthday spanish gown. I can't spell that > word, but it's a big deal on a girls big birthday to have a ball etc. and > that is the advertising on this pattern. Ah! A quinciera dress! That makes sense. Interesting, though. In these parts, those dresses tend to be intense pastels (if there is such a thing--you know, saturated lavender, pink, etc.) Ann Wass --part1_191.115f4b83.2b21497e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 3:27:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, distantdesigns@hotmail.com writes:

That
pattern is being sold as a 15th birthday spanish gown.  I can't spell that
word, but it's a big deal on a girls big birthday to have a ball etc. and
that is the advertising on this pattern.


Ah! A quinciera dress!  That makes sense.  Interesting, though.  In these parts, those dresses tend to be intense pastels (if there is such a thing--you know, saturated lavender, pink, etc.)
Ann Wass --part1_191.115f4b83.2b21497e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 19:32:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00379 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:32:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60T1l9019103; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60T0wF020583; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60SYwF020297 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:28:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6O00JY29BGDI@mtaout05.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 19:28:28 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DEFEEF2.6020804@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Another question about pleats then Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:27:30 -0600 Status: RO What type of pleat did they use when they were making men's skirted jerkins? Were those organ pleats then? I do not see how a knife pleat could create those wonderful conical pleats we see in the portraiture and woodcuts? I know a seamstress that refuses to make the skirts on the circle so she makes rolled/squashed organ pleats to make the hemline portion of the skirts full enough. But they make enourmous bulk at the waist if using a heavy fabric. (which would support the theory that stuffed and organ pleating was done in the women's gowns). -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 19:32:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00384 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:32:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60S2l9018965; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60S1wF020024; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60R2wF019524 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.14c.1869531e (24895) for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:26:51 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <14c.1869531e.2b2148cb@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_14c.1869531e.2b2148cb_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:26:51 EST Status: RO --part1_14c.1869531e.2b2148cb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 3:05:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > I have an 1840s bonnet with silk and paper morning glories on it. They are > hand made and look real. Like the kind you see on fences in cow pastures. > > Pictures? Ann Wass --part1_14c.1869531e.2b2148cb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 3:05:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes:

I have an 1840s bonnet with silk and paper morning glories on it. They are hand made and look real. Like the kind you see on fences in cow pastures.



Pictures?
Ann Wass --part1_14c.1869531e.2b2148cb_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 19:39:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00533 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:39:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60cHl9019754; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:38:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60cFwF024572; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:38:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60bNwF024185 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:37:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB60xlYc012297; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:59:48 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gB60xiQ1012295; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:59:44 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, mabse@attbi.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Andy's Christmas Present User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <200212051628.gB5GS74B003317@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200212051628.gB5GS74B003317@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200212051959.44205.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB60bNwF024185 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:59:44 -0500 Status: RO On Thursday 05 December 2002 11:28 am, mabse@attbi.com wrote: > just a warning - my son had this same fascination, and now I am paying for > a college junior year abroad in Japan. (and happy to do it, just want you > to know where it can lead). He is also a fencer and is going to take > traditional Japanese fencing classes when he is in Japan. I assume that > this is the same as a Samuri. Does anyone have a reference for patterns > for traditional Japanese fencing garb? I thought I would make him a > costume for his trip. As I notice some of the other list members have mentioned, martial arts stores sell kendo uniforms that would be more appropriate for his purposes. > Would the Japanese have used linen or wool? Or, were they pretty much > limited to silk? Modern kendo uniforms are made of cotton. To my knowledge, historic Japanese dress did not use linen at all (I have no idea if it grows in Japan or not, suspect the answer is "not.") My recollection is that they didn't use cotton much either before about the 16th century. Before then, the well off wore silk, the peasants wore hemp or ramie or other bast fibers. I suspect that the only folk in Japan who wore wool traditionally were the Ainu (the Caucasian tribes in northern Japan). This is from my general costume reading. I'm fairly but not 100% sure of the above. There is a nice site on noble Japanese dress at http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/japanese/ -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 19:43:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00595 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:43:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60g5l9019965; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:42:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60g0wF026024; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60fkwF025942 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:41:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip195.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.195]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB60ffZ15128 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:41:42 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another question about pleats then Message-ID: <3DEF8092.8034.28A05969@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3DEFEEF2.6020804@comcast.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:36:34 -0800 Status: RO > What type of pleat did they use when they were making men's skirted > jerkins? Were those organ pleats then? I do not see how a knife > pleat could create those wonderful conical pleats we see in the > portraiture and woodcuts? I know a seamstress that refuses to make the > skirts on the circle so she makes rolled/squashed organ pleats to make > the hemline portion of the skirts full enough. But they make > enourmous bulk at the waist if using a heavy fabric. (which would > support the theory that stuffed and organ pleating was done in the > women's gowns). In Alcega's Tailor's Book 1589 (such as f.30) they show them cut on the curve. That would take some of the bulk out of it and make the pleats more conical. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 19:51:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00720 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:51:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60o4l9020340; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:50:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60o1wF029080; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60nNwF028715 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:49:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.139.18885348 (3866) for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:48:48 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <139.18885348.2b214def@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_139.18885348.2b214def_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:48:47 EST Status: RO --part1_139.18885348.2b214def_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:28:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > > >> I have an 1840s bonnet with silk and paper morning glories on it. They >> are hand made and look real. Like the kind you see on fences in cow >> pastures. >> >> > > Pictures? > I have 4 or 5 boxes in the attic with 1840s or so bonnets in them. They are all rotten and not repairable...to my mind anyway....but I save them for their wealth of decoration ideas. For example: One bonnet gets it's shape from a wire frame and is covered with little strips of grey silk organdy....that tend to roll up into little tubes. These are woven over the frame and big gunch of loops of these tubes decorate one side. I wonder if the MET would want them....or some educational institution [FIT? Parsons?] because they are really falling apart. But then you get to see the insides! I want to archive these but really don't know what the hell to do. I'm no bonnet expert. I can take pictures now that I have a digital camera. [But let me do the chemises 1st, will ya????!] This may be a good project after the holidays. Patience, please. --part1_139.18885348.2b214def_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:28:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnnBWass@aol.com writes:



I have an 1840s bonnet with silk and paper morning glories on it. They are hand made and look real. Like the kind you see on fences in cow pastures.



Pictures?


I have 4 or 5 boxes in the attic with 1840s or so bonnets in them. They are all rotten and not repairable...to my mind anyway....but I save them for their wealth of decoration ideas.  For example: One bonnet gets it's shape from a wire frame and is covered with little strips of grey silk organdy....that tend to roll up into little tubes. These are woven over the frame and big gunch of loops of these tubes decorate one side.

I wonder if the MET would want them....or some educational institution [FIT? Parsons?] because they are really falling apart. But then you get to see the insides!

I want to archive these but really don't know what the hell to do. I'm no bonnet expert. I can take pictures now that I have a digital camera. [But let me do the chemises 1st, will ya????!] This may be a good project after the holidays.

Patience, please. --part1_139.18885348.2b214def_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 19:54:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00743 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:54:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60p1l9020422; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60p1wF029542; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB60oNwF029250 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB61CqYc012397; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:12:52 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gB61CqBd012395; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:12:52 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, AnnBWass@aol.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1851 pattern User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <191.115f4b83.2b21497e@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <191.115f4b83.2b21497e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200212052012.51937.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB60oNwF029250 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:12:51 -0500 Status: RO On Thursday 05 December 2002 07:29 pm, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/5/2002 3:27:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > distantdesigns@hotmail.com writes: > > That > > pattern is being sold as a 15th birthday spanish gown. I can't spell > > that word, but it's a big deal on a girls big birthday to have a ball > > etc. and that is the advertising on this pattern. > > Ah! A quinciera dress! That makes sense. Interesting, though. In these > parts, those dresses tend to be intense pastels (if there is such a > thing--you know, saturated lavender, pink, etc.) That would certainly explain the color scheme of the example....but I didn't think that quinciera dresses were floor length. -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 20:05:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00781 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:05:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6141l9021246; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6140wF004822; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (mta2-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB613gwF004733 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:03:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.10.2]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021206010339.HVLO21072.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:03:39 +0000 Subject: The Met!!!!Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2-703232307 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <139.18885348.2b214def@aol.com> Message-Id: <5DFA9B24-08BE-11D7-9076-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:59:34 +0000 Status: RO --Apple-Mail-2-703232307 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed The Met really looks after their stuff if they can salvage it and could=20= use it for instructional purposes.I studied at FIT and didn't find them=20= too careful back then. Marcus. On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 12:48 am, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:28:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 > AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > > > > I have an 1840s bonnet with silk and paper morning glories on it. They=20= > are hand made and look real. Like the kind you see on fences in cow=20 > pastures. > > > > Pictures? > > > > I have 4 or 5 boxes in the attic with 1840s or so bonnets in them. = They=20 > are all rotten and not repairable...to my mind anyway....but I save=20 > them for their wealth of decoration ideas. =A0For example: One bonnet=20= > gets it's shape from a wire frame and is covered with little strips of=20= > grey silk organdy....that tend to roll up into little tubes. These are=20= > woven over the frame and big gunch of loops of these tubes decorate = one=20 > side. > > I wonder if the MET would want them....or some educational institution=20= > [FIT? Parsons?] because they are really falling apart. But then you = get=20 > to see the insides! > > I want to archive these but really don't know what the hell to do. I'm=20= > no bonnet expert. I can take pictures now that I have a digital = camera.=20 > [But let me do the chemises 1st, will ya????!] This may be a good=20 > project after the holidays. > > Patience, please. > --Apple-Mail-2-703232307 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 The Met really looks after their stuff if they can salvage it and could use it for instructional purposes.I studied at FIT and didn't find them too careful back then. Marcus. On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 12:48 am, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: ArialIn a message dated 12/5/2002 7:28:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnnBWass@aol.com writes: I have an 1840s bonnet with silk and paper morning glories on it. They are hand made and look real. Like the kind you see on fences in cow pastures. 0000,0000,0000Pictures? I have 4 or 5 boxes in the attic with 1840s or so bonnets in them. They are all rotten and not repairable...to my mind anyway....but I save them for their wealth of decoration ideas. =A0For example: One bonnet gets it's shape from a wire frame and is covered with little strips of grey silk organdy....that tend to roll up into little tubes. These are woven over the frame and big gunch of loops of these tubes decorate one side. I wonder if the MET would want them....or some educational institution [FIT? Parsons?] because they are really falling apart. But then you get to see the insides! I want to archive these but really don't know what the hell to do. I'm no bonnet expert. I can take pictures now that I have a digital camera. [But let me do the chemises 1st, will ya????!] This may be a good project after the holidays. Patience, please. = --Apple-Mail-2-703232307-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 20:22:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00824 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:22:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61KSl9022164; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:20:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61KSwF010843; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:20:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61JIwF010392 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:19:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.239.60]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6O006YBBO4IK@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:19:18 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating and cold weather In-reply-to: <3DED9CA8.72AC8C6C@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021205140951.00cb8c60@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20021203142611.238E91E2349@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> <3DED7D73.604@Spamcop.Net> <00ce01c29b54$209fd8e0$a2432ad8@infoblvd.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:22:28 -0800 Status: RO >It sounds almost like you're >combining costume and non-costume elements to stay warm. Where are you, >by the way? We've had a couple of weeks of nothing but sub-freezing >temps and ice fogs. Ugh. Very dreary. I've been starting on my winter >projects--I'm making a fitted gown for an upcoming competition, learning >tablet-weaving, and planning on getting around to making some garments >inspired by the ones in the Mannesse Codex (for next summer's tourney >season). What's everyone else doing? Sitting here in my t-shirt-sleeves, wondering if I want to put my shoes on before going outside, or not. The thermostat says it's 72 degrees in here, so I don't know if the heater is on or not. It hasn't rained (not enough to notice anyway) for several weeks now. I love capes, cloaks, and coats, but the weather here is such that I roast in them most of the year. At Dickens' Fair last week (indoors), I sweated profusely in my lower-class day dress, single petticoat, chemise and corset, tucker, knee-high stockings, apron, and cap, all of cotton. And we're supposed to add bonnets and wraps when we go from an area supposed to be indoors to one supposed to be outdoors. The guys in frock coats and morning coats suffer the worst. Last year we had to turn the building heaters on a couple of times, but this year nobody has even suggested it. We're doing London in late December here in San Francisco. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 20:22:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00828 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:22:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61KPl9022148; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:20:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61KOwF010814; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:20:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61JHwH010376 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:19:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.239.60]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6O006YBBO4IK@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:19:17 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Swaddling In-reply-to: <20021204.071904.-153497.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021205135721.050c0950@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:57:52 -0800 Status: RO >I confess total ignorance when it comes to babies, but isn't a certain >amount of crying necessary for the healthy development of an infant's >lungs? Nope. In many cultures, babies cry very little. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 20:22:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00830 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:22:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61K5l9022135; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61K2wF010702; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61JHwF010376 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:19:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.239.60]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6O006YBBO4IK@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:19:16 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: Mrs. Weasley (was Re: [h-cost] Gilderoy Lockhart In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021205135211.050bb740@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20021129200731.04be4d80@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:53:50 -0800 Status: RO >Anyone have a picture of the second Mrs. Weasley sweater? Sounds >interesting to me, but when I saw the movie, I was between 12 hour shifts of >work, got 3 hours sleep and back to work, so I missed a few details. I >guess I'm gonna just have to see it again soon to see what I missed in my >sleep-deprived befuddled state. No. But at least it is all crochet. And I'm sure I've seen the stitch pattern at some point, like in a 1970s crochet-patterns book. I just saw it in a shawl recently, somewhere. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 20:22:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00836 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:22:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61KVl9022183; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:20:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61KVwF010867; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:20:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61JJwF010396 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:19:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.239.60]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6O006YBBO4IK@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:19:18 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question In-reply-to: <3DEE8465.10163.247B6DDC@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021205142949.050c2a20@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3DEE0F10.28105.22FCBF9E@localhost> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:32:51 -0800 Status: RO > > And we have the occasional British squash such as Ribena. (Yum. My > > favorite, although you have to hunt to find it, usually only in > > specialty stores and only the concentrate.) > > > > Mostly we just call ours "juice". > >Sadly, most British squashes aren't juice. "Orange >squash" is usually orange food colouring, orange >flavouring, half a ton of sugar, and added Vitamin C >to convince you it's healthy. > >Still, it helps drown the taste of the fluoride in the tap >water :) Squash, to an American, is a vegetable like pumpkin or zucchini (there are 10 or 20 different kinds available here in California). Squash, to someone in the UK is the juice from a squashed fruit, plus water, sugar, etc. Lemon squash (UK) = lemonade (US). Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 20:39:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00919 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:39:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61c3l9023141; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61c1wF016823; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB61bqwF016729 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:37:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.131.18048e66 (3866) for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:37:42 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <131.18048e66.2b215966@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dracula, was Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_131.18048e66.2b215966_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:37:42 EST Status: RO --part1_131.18048e66.2b215966_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:08:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, mangal.kalima@virgin.net writes: > Well the Designers were 'creative' but it was a movie and not an > historical reenactment event based on fact. > Ahhhhh...but is was billed as a sort of historical event...BRAM STOKER'S Dracula. Never forget that. You are of course correct in thinking the clothes are beautiful. Alone they are. But as a design for a show they simply fail. Mina's [or is it Lucy?] wedding dress is a stunning costume. An intricate feast for the eyes. A beautiful Kabuki costume..... but what, other than being white, does it have to do with a wedding dress? And we have Dracula himself looking sometimes like an aging drag queen in a red Kimono with a beehive hair do [in Transsexual Traaaaaansivania!], next he's Leon Russell, Then he rises from the grave wearing a Klimpt painting. What is that? Where's the concept? It's just a jumble of a bunch of stuff the designer liked. It is bad design. Nice individual pieces, but bad design. Let her go do fashion. Leave the theatre to us. --part1_131.18048e66.2b215966_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:08:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, mangal.kalima@virgin.net writes:


Well the Designers were 'creative' but it was a movie and not an
historical reenactment event based on fact.


Ahhhhh...but is was billed as a sort of historical event...BRAM STOKER'S Dracula. Never forget that.

You are of course correct in thinking the clothes are beautiful. Alone they are. But as a design for a show they simply fail. Mina's [or is it Lucy?] wedding dress is a stunning costume. An intricate feast for the eyes. A beautiful Kabuki costume..... but what, other than being white, does it have to do with a wedding dress? And we have Dracula himself looking sometimes like an aging drag queen in a red Kimono with a beehive hair do [in Transsexual Traaaaaansivania!], next he's Leon Russell, Then he rises from the grave wearing a Klimpt painting. What is that? Where's the concept? It's just a jumble of a bunch of stuff the designer liked. It is bad design. Nice individual pieces, but bad design. Let her go do fashion. Leave the theatre to us. --part1_131.18048e66.2b215966_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 22:19:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01283 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:19:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB63I9l9029042; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:18:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB63I1wF020601; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB63HAwF020325 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:17:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-002mosloup121.dialsprint.net ([168.191.109.185] helo=hppav) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18K8zF-0002rf-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 22:17:10 -0500 Message-ID: <013a01c29cd6$3cc9fcc0$b96dbfa8@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:19:05 -0600 Status: RO Hi, playing catchup with digests again. I'm from Missouri, St. Louis area to be more precise. German background on both sides of my family. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 22:37:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01328 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:37:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB63a4l9000918; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB63a1wF026900; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB63ZfwF026778 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:35:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2002120603353500100acv1he>; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 03:35:36 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205192112.009ff3d0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: cathy@thyrsus.com, h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Andy's Christmas Present In-Reply-To: <200212051959.44205.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <200212051628.gB5GS74B003317@net.indra.com> <200212051628.gB5GS74B003317@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 19:25:49 -0800 Status: RO thanks all for the info. He has a fencing outfit, including the face protector and jacket and everything. I really was thinking more of a costume type traditional dress for dress up. there are real parallels with Penny's son. He also flunked Japanese last year and is a computer engineering major. the flunking Japanese didn't seem to discourage him. He comes home from UC Santa Cruz tomorrow and I can hardly wait. maryann At 07:59 PM 12/5/2002 -0500, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >On Thursday 05 December 2002 11:28 am, mabse@attbi.com wrote: > > just a warning - my son had this same fascination, and now I am paying for > > a college junior year abroad in Japan. (and happy to do it, just want you > > to know where it can lead). He is also a fencer and is going to take > > traditional Japanese fencing classes when he is in Japan. I assume that > > this is the same as a Samuri. Does anyone have a reference for patterns > > for traditional Japanese fencing garb? I thought I would make him a > > costume for his trip. > >As I notice some of the other list members have mentioned, martial arts >stores >sell kendo uniforms that would be more appropriate for his purposes. > > > Would the Japanese have used linen or wool? Or, were they pretty much > > limited to silk? > >Modern kendo uniforms are made of cotton. > >To my knowledge, historic Japanese dress did not use linen at all (I have no >idea if it grows in Japan or not, suspect the answer is "not.") My >recollection is that they didn't use cotton much either before about the 16th >century. Before then, the well off wore silk, the peasants wore hemp or >ramie or other bast fibers. I suspect that the only folk in Japan who wore >wool traditionally were the Ainu (the Caucasian tribes in northern Japan). > >This is from my general costume reading. I'm fairly but not 100% sure of the >above. There is a nice site on noble Japanese dress at > >http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/japanese/ > >-- >Cathy Raymond > >"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." > --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Dec 5 23:12:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01467 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:12:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB64B5l9002498; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:11:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB64B0wF008005; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB64AlwF007893 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.115] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A21D8564014C; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 23:05:49 -0500 Message-ID: <008c01c29cdd$c3c70220$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <8FC0BBDB-08B4-11D7-9076-0003936A9570@virgin.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1851 model for Simplicity pattern - skirt,got it! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:12:59 -0500 Status: RO I think Marcus has hit the right line about the skirt shape being wrong. I would also question the bodice being attached to the skirt. I have a tow tiered silk skirt of this period that came with two bodices; one for evening and the other is more for daytime. One problem that I am having with these new 'historical' patterns is in the long waisted bodice meant for the modern body is usually out of proportion to the shorter waisted aesthetic of the time.Hence, the pattern designed to fit now always looks strange when compared with originals. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "marcus findlay-arthur" To: Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 7:49 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1851 model for Simplicity pattern - skirt,got it! > Its like those Scarlett O' Hara collector dolls that were around a few > years ago - the green muslin number that flares out to the ankles in > rows of frills as I remember. > > In 1851 the crinoline wasn't actually available and women depended upon > several layers of petticoats to achieve the bell shape.Thats the issue - > the skirt doesn't 'bell' properly for the period.The fall of the > petticoats,say some eight in all of various weights and fabrics would > bloom out from the waist and at mid thigh measure would fall down to the > floor in heavier folds,not flare smoothly.With the standard 18 yard > measure in the hem line of a summer frock in taffetta or mouseline you > get these fab,rich folds of fabric that whisper when moved by the wearer. > > Thinking back to the examples that I saw in the various South African > museums when I was Victorian-mad and the Worth examples at the Met,this > is a later pattern intended for a crinoline. > > The Simplicity pic spreads out almost conically like an 1861-1864 > silhouette. > > Do I envy you!!! > A silk and paper 1840's bonnet! > You should see the skill some of the later ribbon work used for floral > decoration - astounding.You want to smell them in some > instances.Really,really beautiful and of course lost with all the frou > frou going on. > > The over skirt is also a later fashion feature and had something to do > with the Pompadour craze which was later than '51 by a few years,five to > seven years max,if I remember my fashion plates but I am open to > correction on this point.For most of the 50's the skirt shape was > bell,full and weighty around the feet.Sort of like a Lely or Van Dyke > would be wrong without the folds. > > Marcus. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 00:08:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01629 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:08:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6562l9005100; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6560wF025271; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB655JwF025028 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:05:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoQYRxuFvwucelyYhKsCKNyrAcMUZkHegg=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKBSSKVD; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 00:05:10 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question Message-ID: <20021206.000424.-179017.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,6-8 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:04:23 -0500 Status: RO <<>> Actually, that is exactly what I am doing. I don't want to cut into the good stuff until I know if it will work. And I had the pink fabric for a decorating project that I changed my mind on. Can't let good fabric go to waste and, like I said before, I like pink. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 00:24:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01772 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:24:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB65N3l9005834; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB65N1wF000874; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB65M4wF000526 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:22:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoQYRxuFvwuceQ/fE7nQ0GnuyUJc+HpyZQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKBTQU4E; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 00:21:43 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion plate dress 1851 model for Simplicity pattern Message-ID: <20021206.002114.-179017.2.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_684b.0241.087b X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,7-10,12-14,15-32767 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:21:14 -0500 Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_684b.0241.087b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<>> First - Get them out of the attic!! Second - try to find some acid free tissue to wrap them in and store them in a nice cool closet to prevent any further deterioration. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender ----__JNP_000_684b.0241.087b Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<<<I want to archive these but really don't know what the = hell to=20 do.>>>
 
        First - Get them out of the= =20 attic!!
 
        Second - try to find some = acid=20 free tissue to wrap them in and store them in a nice cool closet to prevent= any=20 further deterioration.
 
Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
----__JNP_000_684b.0241.087b-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 00:29:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01792 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:29:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB65S4l9006003; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:28:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB65S1wF002588; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB65RtwF002508 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:27:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a26.in-tch.com [66.62.107.6]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB65BtD28395 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:11:56 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DF0356E.C2D83049@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta References: <005e01c29c93$55ae0a30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 22:28:14 -0700 Status: RO *sigh*.... Is it as beeyoootiful as it sounds? What are you going to make with it? The American lady's outfit? *sigh*.....;-) --sue Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Guess what? > I got 15 meters of sky blue Silk Taffeta from London today!!! > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 01:23:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02135 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:23:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB66M8l9007931; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:22:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB66M0xx018927; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB66L9xx018616 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:21:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A1D4F412007C; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 00:21:08 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A1D410440112; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 00:21:08 -0600 Message-ID: <005c01c29cef$8297d2e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <008501c29cb4$9ef492b0$b1cfadcb@michaela> <20021205170842.F2601@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:20:01 -0500 Status: RO I am surprised on how the membership has dropped. Years ago there were about 800 members. I guess with all various costume lists people went into their our specialty. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 02:13:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08827 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:13:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB67C7l9009404; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:12:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB67C0xx001788; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB67B6xx001545 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:11:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AD8A7F00258; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 01:11:06 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AD8BB360108; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 01:11:07 -0600 Message-ID: <00ff01c29cf6$6f86fa80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <200212051628.gB5GS74B003317@net.indra.com> <200212051628.gB5GS74B003317@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20021205192112.009ff3d0@mail.attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Andy's Christmas Present X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:09:36 -0500 Status: RO Maryann, All my son's computer geek friends are into the Japanese culture and anime. I have five sons and all dress differently. #1 son {26 y.o.} is a businessman into preppy/professional wear, #2 son {21 y.o.} (artsy one) is into Kramer/bowling shirts, #3 son {19 y.o.} into Japanese, #4 son {17 y.o.} wears his Boy Scout camp shirts (he works at Boys Scout camp in the summer and they give him a wardrobe) and the black t-shirts from his theater productions, and #5 son {15 y.o.} wears funny t-shirts... his favorites are Spam, can meat, t-shirts (his name is Sam and his brothers always called him Spam. He is a computer geek and likes being called Spam.) And people think menswear is boring. My husband wears at home, Grand Funk Railroad and Denver Broncos t-shirts. One day I am going to have a bonfire with them!!!! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 03:14:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18663 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 03:14:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB68B6l9010872; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:11:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB68B0xx015961; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB68ATxx015797 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:10:29 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021206081029.10584.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 08:10:29 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <005c01c29cef$8297d2e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:10:29 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > I am surprised on how the membership has dropped. Years ago there were > about 800 members. I guess with all various costume lists people went into > their our specialty. I personally think that it also has a lot to do that this list has been prone to flaming. I certaionly know a _lot_ of people who were on here and then ran away, hurt or fearing they might say something wrong/unintelligent and therefore they _never_ dared to post, never to return. This has changed though I believe, has become a lot friendlier lately, maybe we could coax them back? Sorry, but I had to say this coz it's part of the truth. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 03:17:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21065 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 03:17:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB68G1l9011070; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB68G0xx017634; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB68F7xx017377 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:15:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021206081507.27712.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 08:15:07 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dracula, was Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <131.18048e66.2b215966@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:15:07 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > You are of course correct in thinking the clothes are beautiful. Alone they > are. But as a design for a show they simply fail. Mina's [or is it Lucy?] > wedding dress is a stunning costume. An intricate feast for the eyes. A > beautiful Kabuki costume..... but what, other than being white, does it have > to do with a wedding dress? And we have Dracula himself looking sometimes > like an aging drag queen in a red Kimono with a beehive hair do [in > Transsexual Traaaaaansivania!], next he's Leon Russell, Then he rises from > the grave wearing a Klimpt painting. What is that? Where's the concept? It's > just a jumble of a bunch of stuff the designer liked. It is bad design. Nice > individual pieces, but bad design. Let her go do fashion. Leave the theatre > to us. > *stomps foot and insists* NO I disagree with you, strongly, strongly, strongly. The costumes, each and every of the 'strange' ones are utterly fantastic! Apart from that, what about Mr Stoker himself and the group he was associated with? I don't think the 'weird' costumes are out of place at all, and I hope she will NOT leave theatre to everyone else and do fashion because I thought the costumes were utterly STUNNING! Nicole - who thinks disagreeing is great fun, especially in this 'oh so pussyfooting around times' ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 03:49:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18367 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 03:49:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB68m6l9011868; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB68m0xx024985; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB68l4xx024822 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A407F10501E0; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 02:47:03 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A409D190146; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 02:47:05 -0600 Message-ID: <01d101c29d03$c2f82420$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20021206081029.10584.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 03:44:58 -0500 Status: RO I was saddened to hear membership has dropped so much. My newsletter has more members than what we have now. H-costume used to be the largest costume list. I think the flame wars has a lot to do with it. A lot of people have told me this over the years. People have said that they are scared to post a question or answer one for the fear of being flamed. I have run across a lot of old members on other lists. Others have said that they wanted to answer a question, but other members jump in and answer quickly before they can post. Maybe it is time for another Lurker's Day. Maybe this should be a monthly event. Then we would get to know everyone! How about the third Wednesday of every month as Lurker's Day. I will volunteer to keep up with it. I don't blame them for the fear. I was flamed once years ago on this list. I was shaken for a little while, but I haven't been flamed again. I kinda like putting out the flames. No one knows everything, and my policy is... there are no dumb questions. We all had to start somewhere. My somewhere to start was on h-costume in 1996 as a student. I still think it is the best costuming list. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 04:50:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13832 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 04:50:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB69n6l9013409; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:49:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB69n1xx009275; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB69mixx009214 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:48:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-176.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.176]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6ECC7F13 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:48:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3DF07272.4060608@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? References: <20021206081029.10584.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> <01d101c29d03$c2f82420$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:48:34 +0100 Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > I still think it is the >best costuming list. > I totally agree. There is so much knowledge on this list. And I get more and more interested in other periods than only the 15th and 16th century. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 05:12:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14026 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 05:12:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6AB1l9014203; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 03:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6AB0xx014842; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 03:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6AAcxx014759 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 03:10:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-13-19.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.13.19] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18KFRN-0002LR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:10:37 +0000 Message-ID: <002c01c29d10$459f4aa0$130d27d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20021205221124.7818.qmail@web41210.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Fox tails, was Re: [h-cost] Tudor question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:14:32 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, I see that Sarah L. Goodman's article on Farthingales and Bumrolls.... at http://www.elizabethanlady.com/farthingales.html includes a reference to foxtails being worn in much earlier periods under the gown to improve the figure, and I have come across a number of other references to this. However, I'm still baffled as to how this actually worked, in practise,and would welcome suggestions. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 07:24:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14627 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:24:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6CN4l9018161; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 05:23:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6CN1xx010939; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 05:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6CMlxx010891 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 05:22:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from p56-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.120] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18KHVE-000801-00; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 01:22:45 +1300 Message-ID: <000501c29d22$2f754a60$78ccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20021206081029.10584.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> <01d101c29d03$c2f82420$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:22:45 +1300 Status: RO > I don't blame them for the fear. I was flamed once years ago on this list. > I was shaken for a little while, but I haven't been flamed again. heheh, well I've been in a situation that wasn't quite flaming, but I was accused of flaming.. eh. I think it's part of the cons of text only communication. Hense my recent asking of Nicole for what she meant;) Funnily enough being bold enough to stand up for my beliefs (though sometimes knowing when you've made your point and it's not doing any good to labour the point can be difficult) has made me bolder IRL. At the LotR picnic I had a guy say that my dress would have been better with boning. Dork didn't know anything about costuming: a) the original didn't. And I don't think there was any boned undergarment (maybe somehting like what Liv wore, but it's clear from the way the costume hangs on the form and wrinkles around the actress the dress isn't boned. b) if we are looking at the bliaut as a possible "what this is trying to be" style then no as well. I told him no. He said "because you don't like it?" I said no, it's not right for the style. And started talking about the history of the use of whale bone and reeds;) Had it been a few years before I might well have doubted myself. But being on a list where you can be flamed or have heated discussions means you soon either become very determined or avoid confrontation, perhpas by becoming insecure in your opinions. I kinda > like putting out the flames. No one knows everything, and my policy is... > there are no dumb questions. We all had to start somewhere. My somewhere > to start was on h-costume in 1996 as a student. I still think it is the > best costuming list. Yep. Good range of views. And often even if you strongly disagree with someone it helps you clarify why you believe something by having it challenged. You may even change your mind. And I also feel there is nothing the matter with being wrong. For example... assuming whalebone actually was bone. It's an easy mistake if you are just learning about the stuff. Ignore the people who belittle you for the mistake but don't try and pretend the mistake didn't happen. If you see what I mean. I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong, when it's somethine clear cut like that and if it's not clear cut and something more subjective then I prefer to be able to form my own opinions;) michaela using this as a test to see if nortons will scan my email. It's behaving extremely oddly. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 08:19:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15924 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:19:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6DI2l9019921; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 06:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6DI1xx023243; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 06:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6DHQxx023101 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 06:17:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.89.145.202]) by mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20021206131719.SHOY24110.mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:17:19 +0000 Message-ID: <3DF0A366.A89D08AE@worldnet.att.net> From: Justine Magill X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? References: <20021206081029.10584.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 08:17:26 -0500 Status: RO *de-lurking* Actually, the nasty flaming is exactly why I dont post anymore. I sometimes do not get my point across clearly, and do not say all I meant to because I am always in somewhat of a hurry due to an insane schedule. Also, I only get to check mail in the early morning before work, and after work. Those who post all day will move onto a topic and you all know how conversations change. The last time I posted something here I got deeply flamed. I argue enough in my day to day life (I work in an accounting office and get in to.... 'discussions' with agencys like the IRS and state tax authorities) so when I come home, I do not want to continue arguing. Especially about something that is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable. BTW, other list members took my viewpoint a year later and showed me to be correct indeed.... *back into lurk mode* Jenne > > I personally think that it also has a lot to do that this list has been prone > to flaming. I certaionly know a _lot_ of people who were on here and then ran > away, hurt or fearing they might say something wrong/unintelligent and > therefore they _never_ dared to post, never to return. > This has changed though I believe, has become a lot friendlier lately, maybe we > could coax them back? > > Sorry, but I had to say this coz it's part of the truth. > > Nicole > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 09:21:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17195 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:21:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6EK5l9023023; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:20:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6EK1xx010684; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6EJhxx010456 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:19:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021206141943.26959.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 14:19:43 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DF0A366.A89D08AE@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:19:43 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Justine Magill wrote: > *de-lurking* > > Actually, the nasty flaming is exactly why I dont post anymore. I sometimes > do not > get my point across clearly, and do not say all I meant to because I am > always in > somewhat of a hurry due to an insane schedule. Also, I only get to check > mail in > the early morning before work, and after work. Oh Jenne, don't go back into lurking, please? I know it isalways us same ones who are posting/talking and I know I for one sometimes really do talk too much (hey, can I help it that I feel so strongly about many things? *laughs*) but that's also because we _are_ always the same ones posting. It would be WONDERFUL if more people posted, it really would. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 10:00:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17362 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:00:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Ex3l9025185; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:59:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Ex1xx022807; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Ew2xx022467 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc8.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.200]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C73F026301D for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:58:00 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <006701c29d38$3c664560$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <005e01c29c93$55ae0a30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3DF0356E.C2D83049@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:00:37 +0100 Status: RO Hi! Yes that is right, the american lady from Denver. It is a wonderfull colour and i wished i had time right now, then i would have made myself a new embroidered suit! Well it is good to have some things to do in the future also. I just finished her stays today, mock up stays wich are to be send for her to try, before i make any panier and dress mock up two. What a work to make stays for large persons, it has 100 bones in it. Boy am i glad they invented the sewing machine :-) This time i want to try to make a new panier type. I have ben glaring at Nicoles pictures from V&A of a panier shown with stays, i think it would be very usefull for the dress i make. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta > *sigh*.... > Is it as beeyoootiful as it sounds? What are you going to make with it? > The American lady's outfit? > *sigh*.....;-) > --sue > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > Guess what? > > I got 15 meters of sky blue Silk Taffeta from London today!!! > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 10:05:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17422 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:05:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6F51l9025533; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6F50xx024751; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6F4fxx024626 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:04:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1a4.d0fc945 (4116) for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:04:07 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1a4.d0fc945.2b221667@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dracula, was Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a4.d0fc945.2b221667_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:04:07 EST Status: RO --part1_1a4.d0fc945.2b221667_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/6/2002 3:16:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes: > Nicole - who thinks disagreeing is great fun, especially in this 'oh so > pussyfooting around times' > Indeed....especially since there is no animosity between us. It's hardly a life defining cause. --part1_1a4.d0fc945.2b221667_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/6/2002 3:16:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:


Nicole - who thinks disagreeing is great fun, especially in this 'oh so
pussyfooting around times'


Indeed....especially since there is no animosity between us. It's hardly a life defining cause. --part1_1a4.d0fc945.2b221667_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 10:10:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17518 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:10:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6F91l9025837; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6F91xx026149; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6F8Uxx025939 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:08:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-83-124.client.attbi.com[12.246.83.124]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <2002120615082505300al9m9e>; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:08:25 +0000 Message-ID: <3DF0BD5B.4070504@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? References: <20021206081029.10584.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 07:08:11 -0800 Status: RO N Kipar wrote: > --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > I am surprised on how >> the membership has dropped. > >I personally think that it also has a lot to do that this list has been prone >to flaming. > I had dropped off all the lists I read after sept 11, took me about a year to realize how much I missed reading them. Still, I mostly read, not post. Flames don't scare me a bit, I just don't have a lot to say! I like to sew (duh!) and have been getting into the vintage (late 30s, early 40s) 'reprints' that vogue and butterick have been doing. Only gotten a few done, hopefully some more after the holidays. Have to alter every darn one to fit. Yeesh. Am in the SCA, wear mostly late period Persian clothing, sometime earlier. Sometimes European medieval, sometimes late italian renaissance. Will pick up Margo's patterns as soon as I can - will be nice to have a pattern to work from. Sometimes I get so tired of drafting my own! off to classes liz lizyoung@fenris.net > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 10:12:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17530 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:12:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6FB2l9025967; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6FB1xx026931; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6FAoxx026847 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:10:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc8.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.200]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 49A68262B15 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:10:49 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <008501c29d3a$0742fd90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20021205222807.27871.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yep Bjarne/Thanks for the wig link MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:13:27 +0100 Status: RO Hi Duchesse! Yes i will do that, the wig i have is much two full. When you look at 18th century wigs they are not so full, only thin hair and then those rolls. But it surely is difficult to find a picture of one i like, i have turned every page in all my costume books, but no one was like i wanted it. I think i will look at Dangerous Liasions on the puter and then capture a picture i like of Valmont and send to him, as the wig i want. Bjarne > Then I do suggest to contact derek, don't forget to mention that I sent you, > Nicole with the 1660s wig and the 1700 wig for the fontange and with ben's 1700 > periwig where the first one got thrown out by Colin mistakenly and we had to > shell out 300 quid for a second one. ;-) He'll know then... :-))) > > He's lovely, a pleasure to work with. expensive, but hey, quality doesn't come > cheap, and on top of it all he is SUCH a nice chap. > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 10:13:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17540 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:13:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6FC0l9026025; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6FC0xx027378; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6FBAxx026988 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:11:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11780 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2002 15:11:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.49) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 2002 15:11:08 -0000 Message-ID: <3DF0BDEE.BE661081@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Questions abook studies. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:10:38 -0500 Status: RO I know I have asked a lot of questions before so add this to my curiosity. Is there a list of recommanded reading for different periods of clothing styles and construction? I presently own a number of books but I feel like I am missing something. In creating a gown from a pattern, whether its one of the big three or much to my delight Margo Anderson's pattern, I seem to be lacking a common knowledge about the construction. Hard to explain this feeling of failing to achieve a certain look due to my skimpy sewing skills. I see wonderful paned sleeves on gowns that have a fullness that I can't recreate. I have searched my books and on line but no help. I would like to have that fullness on the upper half of the sleeves while the lower half is narrow. How did they do that? I guess I am looking for tricks of the trade. If there is a book or some place to find this info could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 10:17:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17589 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:17:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6FG3l9026247; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6FG1xx028786; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6FFlxx028709 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:15:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 98576 invoked by uid 1005); 6 Dec 2002 15:15:43 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.075823 secs); 06 Dec 2002 15:15:43 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.075823 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 2002 15:15:42 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question In-Reply-To: <3DEF21FF.3820.272EDC4C@localhost> Message-ID: <20021206095533.X71541-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:15:44 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I'm curious--the pleats in the back of Holbein's lady and the breughel painting are obviously very deep and pronounced, but I myself have been unable to determine the specific pleating method used. I've managed to create similar wide, very rounded pleats by stuffing and then box-pleating. Though I have had to hand-sew the finished skirt top to the finished bodice bottom like one does with cartridge pleats, as the stuffed pleats were way too thick to sew through. Are you defining cartridge-pleats as pleats that are sewn with multiple threads and then gathered up, or as any pleats that aren't "folded under", like knife or box pleats? Looking at Holbein's woman (pic at http://costume.dm.net/gallery/images/bwlady-big.gif), I would recreate that look with a skirt lined with a layer of batting. Ditto for breughel (one pic at http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/images/dance.jpg) Smaller cartridge pleats show up in Italian dresses of the time (example at http://www.marquise.de/en/1500/pics/1540_1.shtml). I'd love to see that english dress. I think I may have--is she wearing a Queen-mary-type flattened hood, and is the dress a really stylized long-fronted red velvet deal? Are the pleats smaller? Thanks, Drea > > Cartridge pleats were used, as were knife pleats. They seem to have > been used together at times. I don't have a URL but in the Holbein > drawing of a lady (where he's done a front *and* a back view), there > are obvious large cartridge pleats in the back. Some of the Breugel > paintings also show this. There's another picture of a English court > lady in a red dress with navy blue brocade undersleeves which shows > the cartridge pleats at the side. However, it appears that she has > some flat pleats to transition the front part to the back cartridge > pleats (like 2 on each side). Unfortunately, the book which has the > best picture of this is hiding/lost right now. > > Kat Russell > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 10:36:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21987 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:36:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6FZ8l9027585; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:35:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6FZ1e4006541; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6FYFe4006196 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:34:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6P00JCKF7JEM@mtaout05.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:33:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dracula, was Re: JoAT Re: [h-cost] To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DF0C305.3090008@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:32:21 -0600 Status: RO >From: AlbertCat@aol.com >In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:08:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, >mangal.kalima@virgin.net writes: >> Well the Designers were 'creative' but it was a movie and not an >> historical reenactment event based on fact. >Ahhhhh...but is was billed as a sort of historical event...BRAM STOKER'S >Dracula. Never forget that. >You are of course correct in thinking the clothes are beautiful. Alone they >are. But as a design for a show they simply fail. Mina's [or is it Lucy?] >wedding dress is a stunning costume. An intricate feast for the eyes. A >beautiful Kabuki costume..... but what, other than being white, does it have >to do with a wedding dress? And we have Dracula himself looking sometimes >like an aging drag queen in a red Kimono with a beehive hair do [in >Transsexual Traaaaaansivania!], next he's Leon Russell, Then he rises from >the grave wearing a Klimpt painting. What is that? Where's the concept? It's >just a jumble of a bunch of stuff the designer liked. It is bad design. Nice >individual pieces, but bad design. Let her go do fashion. Leave the theatre >to us. I am so glad to hear someone else feels the same way about the costuming in this movie. None of it made sense to me. Everytime I see the film I try to figure out what the costumer was trying to "say" about the characters. I have always felt the clothing that an actor wears should be almost the characters skin. Whether it be a "period" piece or fictional, what a person sees on screen or stage, should be a visual clue to the character. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 10:42:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22081 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:42:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Ff2l9027941; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Ff1e4009214; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6Feve4009169 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:40:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 65501 invoked by uid 1005); 6 Dec 2002 15:40:53 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.080029 secs); 06 Dec 2002 15:40:53 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.080029 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 2002 15:40:52 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questions abook studies. In-Reply-To: <3DF0BDEE.BE661081@inetone.net> Message-ID: <20021206102107.L71541-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:40:54 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Let's see: for the 16th c. (which I assume is what you're doing) the big three I use are Arnold's Patterns of Fashion and Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd, and Alcega's Tailor's Pattern Book. For the fifteenth century, the books I use most often for figuring out particular garments are Elizabeth Birbari's "Dress in Italian Painting 1460-1500", Margaret Scott's "Visual History of Costume, 14th & 15th Centuries", Scott's "Gothic Europe 1400-1500" and Jacqueline Herald's "Dress in Renaissance Italy 1400-1500". Actually, Robin Netherton has given talks on aspects of 15th century dress which blow all of the above out of the water...but none of them has been published yet. (Waaah!) For the fourteenth century, pickings are depressingly slim. The Museum of London's "Clothing and Textiles" book is the best thing out there for showing actual garments and their construction. There's Stella Mary Newton's "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince", of course, but that has very few pictures. There are photographs of some 14th c. costumes in History of Costume books, and the abovementioned Visual History of Costume comes in handy...but this century isn't my specialty, so others could probably give you better pointers on it. Unfortunatly, a lot of costume details simply can't be described--you need the items or up close photos of the items themselves, to get a feel for how they were made. The specific issue of "getting the look" often has as much to do with the materials used as with the construction techniques. If you make a sleeve out of heavy wool, interlined with cotton-linen canvas and lined with a nice stiff silk taffeta, it looks a world different than making the sleeve out of a cotton brocade lined with a heavy linen or brushed cotton. One thing that could help would be taking a theatrical costume construction class. Even though they deal mostly with modern techniques, you do learn the detailed properties of textiles and how to manipulate flat and draped patterns to achieve the look you want. It gives you a wider arsenal of tools and experience with patterns to try and work out just how a particular look was achieved. I did get to examine a pair of early 17th c. paned sleeves a while back, and wrote down the details of how the thing was put together. I can forward you the info, if you're interested. (I didn't get to take photos unfortunately. :( Drea On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Dhannti wrote: > I know I have asked a lot of questions before so add this to my > curiosity. Is there a list of recommanded reading for different periods > of clothing styles and construction? I presently own a number of books > but I feel like I am missing something. In creating a gown from a > pattern, whether its one of the big three or much to my delight Margo > Anderson's pattern, I seem to be lacking a common knowledge about the > construction. Hard to explain this feeling of failing to achieve a > certain look due to my skimpy sewing skills. I see wonderful paned > sleeves on gowns that have a fullness that I can't recreate. I have > searched my books and on line but no help. I would like to have that > fullness on the upper half of the sleeves while the lower half is > narrow. How did they do that? I guess I am looking for tricks of the > trade. If there is a book or some place to find this info could someone > point me in the right direction? > > Thanks in advance > Diana > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 11:24:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22356 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:24:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6GN1l9002205; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6GN1e4028872; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6GMEe4028523 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:22:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp214.directcon.net [206.170.184.214]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gB6GLmEp027549; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:21:50 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021206082555.00d992f0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questions abook studies. In-Reply-To: <3DF0BDEE.BE661081@inetone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 08:25:55 -0800 Status: RO I see wonderful paned >sleeves on gowns that have a fullness that I can't recreate. I have >searched my books and on line but no help. I would like to have that >fullness on the upper half of the sleeves while the lower half is >narrow. How did they do that? This is assuming you are familiar with the basics of pattern making. Start with a sleeve sloper. draw a horizontal line at the level where you want the fullness to begin. Slash along this line. Then slash the upper part of the sleeve into several vertical sections, and pivot them so that the upper edges flare outward while the lower portions are still touching the lower part at the sides. Trace. Correct the side lines, to smooth curves if you want the lowere sleeve to fit tight to the arm, or to straight lines if you want a more triangular shape. You will probably want to increase the height of the sleeve cap by as much as several inches, depending on how much fullness you're adding. Then draw in your lines where you want the panes to be, slash along those lines, and add seam allowances. Clear as mud, no? Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 11:26:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22374 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:26:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6GK3l9001901; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6GK1e4027419; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailexchange.dcls.org (mail.dcls.org [63.161.200.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6GGXe4025639 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:16:34 -0700 (MST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-ID: <03345EFBE0450444B9E4E288E219D54011CD4A@mailexchange.dcls.org> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1535 - 14 msgs Thread-Index: AcKdOw1suyry/u9rSFCz1ToqkTpURQABcETA From: "Mary M. Spila" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB6GGXe4025639 Subject: [h-cost] Lurkers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:19:28 -0500 Status: RO I joined in the early 90's, while I was working in Tennessee. After I moved back to PA in the late 90's, I had some problems keeping subscribed. I would subscribe and after a couple of weeks I would stop receiving digests. After a couple of months of that I let the whole thing lapse. I picked the list up again two years ago and haven't had any problems. I always learn a lot, I just don't talk a lot. Mary / Marian ********************************************************* Mary M. Spila Reference Librarian East Shore Area Public Library Dauphin County Library System Phone: 717-652-9380; ext. 120 Fax: 717-652-5012 WWW.DCLS.ORG _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 12:07:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22519 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:07:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6H67l9005708; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:06:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6H65e4020894; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6H5ie4020627 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:05:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from Tudorldy@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.185.1310864f (15900) for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:04:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m06.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.134]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v89.21) with ESMTP id MAILINID93-1206120435; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 12:04:35 -0500 From: Tudorldy@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7F170921.34AC662E.00862037@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 12:04:35 -0500 Status: RO I don't post - or post about anything substantial - because I don't want to look like an idiot. I'm actually considered *fairly* knowledgeable about the particular time I'm interested in (1560s/70s) and technically "pretty good" as a seamstress. However. I'm an autodidact, not degreed, not published, and for the last couple of years too many 21st Century things have been clogging my life. I don't have a web page. I don't have the personal libraries available to me that some list members have, although mine is pretty respectable. I have a boring, exhausting, full-time 21stC job that leaves me totally wrung out at the end of the day, although I'm working on changing that. (I also don't have a partner, so there is no one to share the job of day to day living/getting on with things - and believe me, that seems to make a huge difference.) I don't think I'm being overly sensitive here when I worry about mentioning that I'm trying out different shift patterns in good cotton cloth rather than linen. Or that my last set of clothes was actually a mostly-synthetic wool blend that you wouldn't have known from real wool twill from an arm's length away. The points aren't linen tape or silk ribbon - it was some grosgrain ribbon off the shelf at the fabric store that worked, and that I could actually afford to make into two dozen sleeve points. My present set of stays are 1/4" steel bones (and have been since I made my first set in 1981) rather than reed because for a fat girl, it works, and they give predictable results. My impression is at times, that folks (with notable exceptions) deal a little harshly with people who take 'shortcuts' (i.e., 1/4" steels in a 1570s pair of bodies, for instance) that were perfectly acceptable ten years ago. Having done SCA costuming since the middle 1970s, the amount of good research material around now absolutely astounds me - things have come *so* far! I'm glad to see the bar being raised, but sorry that it excludes so many honest attempts. The perception seems that anyone who takes a whack at doing a period piece "should have known better" about the X, Y, or Z detail that they didn't get just right. There doesn't seem to be any appreciation for a good try. I don't know how far off my perception is, or if it's spot on. This list does, like any, have it's share of know-it-alls, no matter what the subject or tangent. I've learned to either ignore or laugh at them (I find at least one of them consistently entertaining, although some of her information is good, but I suspect it's really more of a personality issue I have with her, and no, she doesn't know me from anywhere, but she posts a great deal). I'd like to jump in some times and offer my own experience, but just -- hesitate because I don't want to look like an idiot if I get it wrong, and get jumped on by people with better access to information, more education, and moreover *more time* to spend at this incredibly consuming, wonderful hobby of ours. I suppose, if someone who has a few pretty good suits of clothes behind her feels uncomfortable offering advice, where would this leave a novice? Meagn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 12:15:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22551 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:15:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6HE2l9006711; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:14:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6HE1e4025193; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6HDKe4024879 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:13:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip10.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.10]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB6HDEa23070 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:13:14 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question Message-ID: <3DF068C3.2207.2C2B7CBF@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3DEF21FF.3820.272EDC4C@localhost> In-reply-to: <20021206095533.X71541-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:07:15 -0800 Status: RO Drea wrote: > I'm curious--the pleats in the back of Holbein's lady and the breughel > painting are obviously very deep and pronounced, but I myself have > been unable to determine the specific pleating method used. I've > managed to create similar wide, very rounded pleats by stuffing and > then box-pleating. Though I have had to hand-sew the finished skirt > top to the finished bodice bottom like one does with cartridge pleats, > as the stuffed pleats were way too thick to sew through. Are you > defining cartridge-pleats as pleats that are sewn with multiple > threads and then gathered up, or as any pleats that aren't "folded > under", like knife or box pleats? I'm defining them as a pleat used to put in more fabric onto a specified edge than could be done with knife or box pleats without making it as bulky or unwieldy. Also, many people think that cartridge pleats are only sewn on one edge (the top.) It really depends on the look one is going for. If you want them to hang down, you sew them only at the top. If you want to them to stand out some, you sew them at the top and bottom of the pleat. Where you place the pleat on the edge makes a difference too. Also, how much padding, where and how many gathering threads you use, etc. When I teach this type of pleat in my cartridge pleating class, I have them sew down the whole upper edge of the "pleat" (usually it ends up looking like a figure 8 or a a circle with a flattened circle underneath it from the back side. (However, you can get away with fewer stitches than most of my students usually think you can. But that's the same with regular cartridge pleating where people can't believe that one or two stitches are enough to hold the thing and try to sew it down like it was a machine doing it. Can't do cartridge pleats by machine. It's a handsewing technique for a reason.) I've not had a problem with sewing these pleats in at the top, despite their bulk. But it probably depends on where you put the bulk and what you are using for the bulk. I generally use a bouncy wool fabric meant for padding out men's jackets (not a regular fabric from the fabric store, but one from a tailoring supply store). If I need something stiffer, I'll use coating wool (as it doesn't have the same drape and hand as the tailor's wool.) > I'd love to see that english dress. I think I may have--is she > wearing a Queen-mary-type flattened hood, and is the dress a really > stylized long-fronted red velvet deal? Are the pleats smaller? Yep. Sounds like the one I was speaking of. The pleats at the side are pretty large, however, not the smaller ones that Hunnisett shows or like you see on the Italian Renn dresses. More on the scale of the Holbein drawing and Breugel's peasants. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 12:30:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22696 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:30:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6HT2l9007985; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6HT1e4003365; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f12.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6HSTe4003009 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:28:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:28:24 -0800 Received: from 66.136.213.15 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:28:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.136.213.15] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Japanese (was:Re: [h-cost] Andy's Christmas Present) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2002 17:28:24.0721 (UTC) FILETIME=[E1907010:01C29D4C] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:28:24 +0000 Status: RO FWIW... A friend of mine does 16th century Japanese in the SCA. When he won the Northshield tournament (an SCA Principality), he put up directions for making Japanese clothing for his Coronation. I made my clothing and my husband's using his directions - very easy. The website is: http://www.raito.com/royalty/index.html Mary/Katerine > >thanks all for the info. He has a fencing outfit, including the face >protector and jacket and everything. I really was thinking more of a >costume type traditional dress for dress up. > >there are real parallels with Penny's son. He also flunked Japanese last >year and is a computer engineering major. the flunking Japanese didn't >seem to discourage him. He comes home from UC Santa Cruz tomorrow and I >can hardly wait. > >maryann > > >At 07:59 PM 12/5/2002 -0500, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >>On Thursday 05 December 2002 11:28 am, mabse@attbi.com wrote: >> > just a warning - my son had this same fascination, and now I am paying >>for >> > a college junior year abroad in Japan. (and happy to do it, just want >>you >> > to know where it can lead). He is also a fencer and is going to take >> > traditional Japanese fencing classes when he is in Japan. I assume >>that >> > this is the same as a Samuri. Does anyone have a reference for >>patterns >> > for traditional Japanese fencing garb? I thought I would make him a >> > costume for his trip. >> >>As I notice some of the other list members have mentioned, martial arts >>stores >>sell kendo uniforms that would be more appropriate for his purposes. >> >> > Would the Japanese have used linen or wool? Or, were they pretty much >> > limited to silk? >> >>Modern kendo uniforms are made of cotton. >> >>To my knowledge, historic Japanese dress did not use linen at all (I have >>no >>idea if it grows in Japan or not, suspect the answer is "not.") My >>recollection is that they didn't use cotton much either before about the >>16th >>century. Before then, the well off wore silk, the peasants wore hemp or >>ramie or other bast fibers. I suspect that the only folk in Japan who >>wore >>wool traditionally were the Ainu (the Caucasian tribes in northern Japan). >> >>This is from my general costume reading. I'm fairly but not 100% sure of >>the >>above. There is a nice site on noble Japanese dress at >> >>http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/japanese/ >> >>-- >>Cathy Raymond >> >>"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." >> --Flannery O'Connor > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 12:34:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22850 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:34:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6HX1l9008308; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6HX0e4005693; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6HWOe4005332 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:32:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp214.directcon.net [206.170.184.214]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gB6HVqEp011900; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:31:54 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021206093558.00d9bc60@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question In-Reply-To: <3DF068C3.2207.2C2B7CBF@localhost> References: <20021206095533.X71541-100000@shell.siscom.net> <3DEF21FF.3820.272EDC4C@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:35:58 -0800 Status: RO >Also, many people think that cartridge pleats are only sewn on one >edge (the top.) It really depends on the look one is going for. If >you want them to hang down, you sew them only at the top. If you want >to them to stand out some, you sew them at the top and bottom of the >pleat. Actually, if you want them to hang straight down, you sew them at the *bottom* of the pleat. You're then left with the pleated section jutting out like a little shelf, a look some people like but I can't stand. I sew my cartridge pleated skirts to my waistbands by sewing the top of the pleat to the bottom edge of the waistband. This lets the pleated area "hinge" onto the waistband so it can move a bit. I've tried sewing both top and bottom of the pleats to the waistband, but I found it pushed my bodices up. It might not be problem for everyone, but I'm short waisted and high hipped, and need all the room there I can get. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 12:45:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23499 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:45:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Hi2l9009165; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Hi0e4011709; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Hh7e4011224 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:43:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021206174305.FNTB7059.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:43:05 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Message-ID: <3DF0E1AA.19420.2DB7C1B0@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <7F170921.34AC662E.00862037@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:43:06 -0000 Status: RO On 6 Dec 2002 at 12:04, Tudorldy@aol.com wrote: > My impression is at times, that folks (with notable exceptions) deal a > little harshly with people who take 'shortcuts' .... > There doesn't seem to be any appreciation for a good try. > > I suppose, if someone who has a few pretty good suits of clothes > behind her feels uncomfortable offering advice, where would this leave > a novice? Well it leaves this novice feeling fine, in fact, so don't worry too much. But that's because I *know* I'm a novice, and almost entirely ignorant. If people suggest that I've done something horribly wrong, this does not come as a surprise to me, and I don't take it as an insult, since they usually go to great pains to tell me how to do better next time. Of course, they do all work on the assumption that I *want* to do everything as perfectly as I can. I'm happy with that, because it's usually true. If someone came on the list asking how best to disguise the zip in their Tudor dress, I can see them getting a reply they might not appreciate. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 12:53:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23902 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:53:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Hq4l9009905; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Hq2e4016372; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Hpwe4016292 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:51:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20772 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:00:40 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questions abook studies. In-Reply-To: <20021206102107.L71541-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:00:40 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > Let's see: for the 16th c. (which I assume is what you're doing) the > big three I use are Arnold's Patterns of Fashion and Queen Elizabeth's > Wardrobe Unlock'd, and Alcega's Tailor's Pattern Book. > > For the fifteenth century, the books I use most often for figuring out > particular garments are Elizabeth Birbari's "Dress in Italian Painting > 1460-1500", Margaret Scott's "Visual History of Costume, 14th & 15th > Centuries", Scott's "Gothic Europe 1400-1500" and Jacqueline Herald's > "Dress in Renaissance Italy 1400-1500". > > Actually, Robin Netherton has given talks on aspects of 15th century > dress which blow all of the above out of the water...but none of them > has been published yet. (Waaah!) Well, that's a strong statement :-) A lot of what I have just supplements what's in those books, or contradicts the existing findings on some very specific points. I've only done one inroad in research in Elizabethan (on the wheel farthingale), for instance, so outside of that topic I wouldn't contradict anything else Arnold has said. (There might be problems, but I wouldn't know them if I stepped on them.) I've done nothing in Italian, so Birbari and Herald are safe from me ;-) I have some quibbles with some of Scott's conclusions in Late Gothic Europe -- I think that's the book in which I saw the theory that the S-shaped Gothic posture was a result of women leaning back so their breasts wouldn't fall out of their low-cut necklines. (Someone please tell me I'm remembering wrong, and that this came from some other less-clued author. Most of Scott's work is marvelous, and I use the Visual History volume constantly for good images of primary art sources.) Some of my lectures won't be published because making the point relies on close examination of commonalities and trends in a copious selection of visual images. Most journals won't consider putting 40 images into an article, and copyright permissions for that quantity would cover my family's budget for the next year. I have, though, posted summaries of most of these talks to this list, and some are on my not-quite-a-webpage at http://www.netherton.net/robin if that's of any help. I intend to get some more text up there soon, mostly Q&As from people following up on what's there, and more old h-cost posts on other topics. > For the fourteenth century, pickings are depressingly slim. The Museum > of London's "Clothing and Textiles" book is the best thing out there > for showing actual garments and their construction. There's Stella > Mary Newton's "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince", of course, but > that has very few pictures. There are photographs of some 14th c. > costumes in History of Costume books, and the abovementioned Visual > History of Costume comes in handy...but this century isn't my > specialty, so others could probably give you better pointers on it. No, I think you've hit the high points. And the Museum of London books, while gold mines in themselves, must be understood to be a slice of the existing evidence, not a compendium of all known fact. There is, apparently, much in the books that even the authors were not really sure of (as one of them told me, in terms direct enough to take me quite aback), and essentially all the interpretations of the evidence should be taken as good guesses, but not final word. > Unfortunatly, a lot of costume details simply can't be described--you > need the items or up close photos of the items themselves, to get a > feel for how they were made. I would recommend that anyone pursuing study of a particular period/place dive deeply into the artwork of the time, in as many media as possible. Oversize art books are your friend; online research is a nice start but online versions of art often lose detail. And read the text, too! It's astounding how many people will base costumes on a single visual source without learning about the painting, the people in it, the person who made it, and the significance of various details shown. I have many times found that a construction I was puzzling over most likely was the artist's imagination, which certainly simplifies the question of "How did they get that effect?" I have at times referred to myself as a specialist on garments that didn't exist. > One thing that could help would be taking a theatrical costume > construction class. Even though they deal mostly with modern > techniques, you do learn the detailed properties of textiles and how > to manipulate flat and draped patterns to achieve the look you want. > It gives you a wider arsenal of tools and experience with patterns to > try and work out just how a particular look was achieved. An addendum: If you're working before 1450-1500, you should forget nerarly everything you learn in these classes. And in home ec. Fitting and sewing techniques probably changed more between 1200 and 1600 than they did between 1600 and today. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 13:02:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24386 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:02:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6I13l9010828; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6I11e4021359; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f147.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6I0Ye4021014 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:00:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:00:29 -0800 Received: from 66.136.213.15 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:00:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.136.213.15] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Japanese (was:Re: [h-cost] Andy's Christmas Present) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2002 18:00:29.0672 (UTC) FILETIME=[5CECA680:01C29D51] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:00:29 +0000 Status: RO Err...just clicked on it myself, and it links to the main page. Click on the Projects link, then on the Japanese Clothing link. (BTW, he's the guy in the photo on the main page). Mary/Katerine >FWIW... > >A friend of mine does 16th century Japanese in the SCA. When he won the >Northshield tournament (an SCA Principality), he put up directions for >making Japanese clothing for his Coronation. I made my clothing and my >husband's using his directions - very easy. The website is: > >http://www.raito.com/royalty/index.html > >Mary/Katerine >> >>thanks all for the info. He has a fencing outfit, including the face >>protector and jacket and everything. I really was thinking more of a >>costume type traditional dress for dress up. >> >>there are real parallels with Penny's son. He also flunked Japanese last >>year and is a computer engineering major. the flunking Japanese didn't >>seem to discourage him. He comes home from UC Santa Cruz tomorrow and I >>can hardly wait. >> >>maryann >> >> >>At 07:59 PM 12/5/2002 -0500, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >>>On Thursday 05 December 2002 11:28 am, mabse@attbi.com wrote: >>> > just a warning - my son had this same fascination, and now I am paying >>>for >>> > a college junior year abroad in Japan. (and happy to do it, just want >>>you >>> > to know where it can lead). He is also a fencer and is going to take >>> > traditional Japanese fencing classes when he is in Japan. I assume >>>that >>> > this is the same as a Samuri. Does anyone have a reference for >>>patterns >>> > for traditional Japanese fencing garb? I thought I would make him a >>> > costume for his trip. >>> >>>As I notice some of the other list members have mentioned, martial arts >>>stores >>>sell kendo uniforms that would be more appropriate for his purposes. >>> >>> > Would the Japanese have used linen or wool? Or, were they pretty much >>> > limited to silk? >>> >>>Modern kendo uniforms are made of cotton. >>> >>>To my knowledge, historic Japanese dress did not use linen at all (I have >>>no >>>idea if it grows in Japan or not, suspect the answer is "not.") My >>>recollection is that they didn't use cotton much either before about the >>>16th >>>century. Before then, the well off wore silk, the peasants wore hemp or >>>ramie or other bast fibers. I suspect that the only folk in Japan who >>>wore >>>wool traditionally were the Ainu (the Caucasian tribes in northern >>>Japan). >>> >>>This is from my general costume reading. I'm fairly but not 100% sure of >>>the >>>above. There is a nice site on noble Japanese dress at >>> >>>http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/japanese/ >>> >>>-- >>>Cathy Raymond >>> >>>"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." >>> --Flannery O'Connor >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 13:20:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25147 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:20:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6IJ2l9012761; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6IJ1e4001619; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6II9e4001071 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:18:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2154 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2002 18:18:09 -0000 Received: from turbo.sonic.net (208.201.224.26) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 2002 18:18:09 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-89.sonic.net [209.148.112.89]) by turbo.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id gB6II7Z07968 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:18:07 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3DF0EA3F.5B33648C@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? References: <20021206081029.10584.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> <01d101c29d03$c2f82420$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:19:43 -0800 Status: RO > I think the flame wars has a lot to do with it. A lot of people have told > me this over the years. People have said that they are scared to post a > question or answer one for the fear of being flamed. I have run across a > lot of old members on other lists. I have seen very little flaming on h-costume over the years. Flaming is uncontrolled insults made primarily for the sake of annoying people. A moderator can always keep a list from becoming a flamesite, and the various h-costume moderators over the years have done a good job of it. I have often seen people politely disagree with one another's views. There is no way to have an intelligent discussion without this happening. And it is unreasonable to expect everyone to agree with you all the time. However, I think you have hit on another, more likely reason for a decline in h-costume membership. When this group began ( I was a charter member), it was the _only_ historic costuming mailing list. And it stayed that way for years. Until Yahoo and other such vendors set up the ability for anyone to create any mailing list on any topic. I myself am a member of 91 Yahoo email lists either focused on costuming, or on reenactment or some other topic related to costuming. Some of these lists are practically dead. I have most of the others set to "nomail," and I just occasionally look at the archived messages on the list's website. But, that still leaves me getting lots of mail from other costuming lists. There are also now some newsgroups that discuss costuming and reenactment, and some active website "bulletin boards." I read at least half a dozen of those from time to time. And then there's the vintage clothing mailing list, which I think Eliz also moderates. That too, BTW, has much less traffic than before, even though it was never a list for flaming. My point is that there are now many alternatives to h-costume. It is not at all surprising that h-costume would lose market share. And, without this indicating any flaw in h-costume. Many people are only interested in costuming for one historic period. Others are only interested in some specific type of costuming--stage costuming or managing a costume rental shop, for example. People who dislike weeding out dozens of messages that don't interest them, gravitate to specialized lists that focus on their preferred topic. I think h-costume has considerable value as a list covering many eras from many angles. It was never set up as a list for 100% accurate reenactors, or even reenactors, for those who are worried about that. If you want to discuss your polyester repro or your stage costume, just go ahead and post. But I've run across quite a number of people who regard all information that doesn't specifically apply to their five-year period of interest as useless. Even with a broad list like h-costume, you can't please everybody. The other question I would raise is: Is fewer members really a problem? On most lists most members are lurkers. And in fact, prefer to be lurkers. It's not that they're too scared to post. Many are too busy. Also, many people regard lists as consumers rather than producers. Just the way they'd read a book or watch TV--they absorb the information but don't create it. I'm not saying this is wrong, or that they have nothing to contribute. Just that on most lists a small minority posts most of the messages. But as long as h-costume is an active list and people _are_ actively posting messages--does it matter if some people gravitate to other, more specialized lists? Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 13:20:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25151 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:20:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6IH3l9012609; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6IH1e4000405; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f143.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.143]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6IGhe4000158 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:16:38 -0800 Received: from 66.136.213.15 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:16:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.136.213.15] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2002 18:16:38.0671 (UTC) FILETIME=[9E7E29F0:01C29D53] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:16:38 +0000 Status: RO But you don't look like an idiot when you're posting about your own experience! I wasn't there when you made those stays, I can't tell you you're wrong when you talk about how they fit, and whether or not the project worked the way you wanted it to, or how comfortable it is. These pieces of information are indescribably valuable to me, at least. Mary/Katerine P.S. - my first stays are made with steel bones, and I love them! My second set are being made with cording because I want a different look. (And boy do I get teased about how long it's taking me to finish them! But I'm doing the last of it by hand, as that way is easier for me to "fudge" things than using a machine would. And they're portable, so I don't get much done on them at home - home is for the big projects.) > >I don't post - or post about anything substantial - because I don't want to >look like an idiot. > >I'm actually considered *fairly* knowledgeable about the particular time >I'm interested in (1560s/70s) and technically "pretty good" as a >seamstress. However. I'm an autodidact, not degreed, not published, and >for the last couple of years too many 21st Century things have been >clogging my life. I don't have a web page. I don't have the personal >libraries available to me that some list members have, although mine is >pretty respectable. I have a boring, exhausting, full-time 21stC job that >leaves me totally wrung out at the end of the day, although I'm working on >changing that. (I also don't have a partner, so there is no one to share >the job of day to day living/getting on with things - and believe me, that >seems to make a huge difference.) > >I don't think I'm being overly sensitive here when I worry about mentioning >that I'm trying out different shift patterns in good cotton cloth rather >than linen. Or that my last set of clothes was actually a mostly-synthetic >wool blend that you wouldn't have known from real wool twill from an arm's >length away. The points aren't linen tape or silk ribbon - it was some >grosgrain ribbon off the shelf at the fabric store that worked, and that I >could actually afford to make into two dozen sleeve points. My present set >of stays are 1/4" steel bones (and have been since I made my first set in >1981) rather than reed because for a fat girl, it works, and they give >predictable results. > >My impression is at times, that folks (with notable exceptions) deal a >little harshly with people who take 'shortcuts' (i.e., 1/4" steels in a >1570s pair of bodies, for instance) that were perfectly acceptable ten >years ago. Having done SCA costuming since the middle 1970s, the amount of >good research material around now absolutely astounds me - things have come >*so* far! I'm glad to see the bar being raised, but sorry that it excludes >so many honest attempts. The perception seems that anyone who takes a >whack at doing a period piece "should have known better" about the X, Y, or >Z detail that they didn't get just right. There doesn't seem to be any >appreciation for a good try. > >I don't know how far off my perception is, or if it's spot on. This list >does, like any, have it's share of know-it-alls, no matter what the subject >or tangent. I've learned to either ignore or laugh at them (I find at >least one of them consistently entertaining, although some of her >information is good, but I suspect it's really more of a personality issue >I have with her, and no, she doesn't know me from anywhere, but she posts a >great deal). I'd like to jump in some times and offer my own experience, >but just -- hesitate because I don't want to look like an idiot if I get it >wrong, and get jumped on by people with better access to information, more >education, and moreover *more time* to spend at this incredibly consuming, >wonderful hobby of ours. > >I suppose, if someone who has a few pretty good suits of clothes behind her >feels uncomfortable offering advice, where would this leave a novice? > >Meagn >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 13:30:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25242 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:30:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6IT4l9014350; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:29:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6IT1e4008089; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6IS5e4007334 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoQYRxuFvwucGPnA2GaR7VH/znQ9ntvkUQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKC8QFH7; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 13:27:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Message-ID: <20021206.132747.-409781.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3-4,13-14,20-21,24-28 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:27:46 -0500 Status: RO >>>I suppose, if someone who has a few pretty good suits of clothes behind her feels uncomfortable offering advice, where would this leave a novice?>>> Asking dumb and not so dumb questions, of course. I have been sewing almost all my life, but Medieval clothing is a bit different from what I am used to (but then so were the Star Trek uniforms). I recently started a bit of a thread when I asked about pleating a Tudor gown that I am making from totally inappropriate fabric. The answers I got were helpful and no one flamed me for making a pink polished cotton Tudor gown. If it works, I will make the same gown in the proper fabrics, but Margo's wonderful Elizabethan patterns only go so far in helping with Tudor clothing. If we are to learn, we must ask questions. If we don't ask and don't have the Library of Congress at our fingertips, how do we get it even close to right. Everyone takes liberties with authenticity at one time or another even if it is just sewing the garment with off the rack poly/cotton thread. The main point is to know the correct way to go even if you don't follow it to the max. I got off the SCA garb list because there were too many "authorities" with too little knowledge who were just looking to flame others. This list is much kinder, if a bit too windy at times. Had to put my two cents worth in and add to the breeze. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 13:43:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25290 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:43:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Ig4l9016135; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:42:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Ig1e4015883; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40909.mail.yahoo.com (web40909.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6Iewe4015251 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:40:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021206184052.42487.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:40:52 PST From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021206175202.16341.46581.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:40:52 -0800 (PST) Status: RO I have mixed feelings about this list, but love it all the same. When I first found it, I posted a bit in the beginning, and promptly sounded like a silly ass. Some of my assumptions were gently but firmly set straight by more knowledgeable folks, and the challenges I received forced me to take a closer look at my beliefs. For instance, I'm the one who said, "I can't believe women didn't wear underwear in the 14th century to help with chafing." Boy, did THAT get examined. A good friend and local costumer much more experienced than I am, still brings it up (names deleted) in classrooms as an example of the dangerous "Would Have" statement: Unless you are a scholar on the entire socio-politico-religico-economic state of a period, try to avoid saying "They would have done x.." Anyway, I agree that there's an element of one-ups-manship on this list, but that's hard to avoid when there are folks who have toiled long and hard to gain their knowledge through the years. I've learned a LOT here, and I'll take the occasional snippy correction if it means I'm going to learn where I'm in error. This is not to say I'm a push-over -- sometimes I'm not convinced. In general, though, I don't provide information here anymore unless I'm 100% air-tight sure about it, because it WILL be challenged. That may be because there's an unspoken hierarchy on this list -- some folks aren't proven, and thus are challenged. Others are known, and are sacrosanct (sometimes). Just a thought. (Please don't shoot me.) Tasha __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 14:06:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25397 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:06:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6J54l9018765; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6J51e4028813; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6J4He4028367 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:04:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.118] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A38531F018E; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 13:59:17 -0500 Message-ID: <003601c29d5a$92ab1be0$765183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01C29D30.A90D3000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Late 18th Century winter hats/hoods Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:06:24 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C29D30.A90D3000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of the historical houses I assist with is expanding its costume/ = education program. Since we are in a probable winter clime, there has = been a request for 'head covers' to wear outside on the street...that = will be warm. What are some of the credible resources that will best = answer this problem. I have some Fascinators from the mid 19th C and = wonder if these knitted hoods might have been a rediscovery then, of an = earlier time.Any thoughts? Kathleen ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C29D30.A90D3000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One of the historical houses I assist with is = expanding its=20 costume/ education program. Since we are in a probable winter clime, = there has=20 been a request for 'head covers' to wear outside on the street...that = will be=20 warm. What are some of the credible resources that will best answer this = problem.  I have some Fascinators from the mid 19th C and wonder if = these=20 knitted hoods might have been a rediscovery then, of an earlier time.Any = thoughts?   Kathleen
------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C29D30.A90D3000-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 14:09:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25404 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:09:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6J81l9019066; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6J80e4000661; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6J7ce4000469 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:07:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021206190737.91214.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 19:07:37 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021206184052.42487.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:07:37 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Tasha McGann wrote: > > In general, though, I don't provide information here > anymore unless I'm 100% air-tight sure about it, > because it WILL be challenged. That may be because > there's an unspoken hierarchy on this list -- some > folks aren't proven, and thus are challenged. Others > are known, and are sacrosanct (sometimes). Just a > thought. (Please don't shoot me.) Huhm.. hmmm.. damn, you have a point. A good one. *scratches head* Guess I better go and shoot myself instead. Dang. Nicole - bitchy blabbermouth ;-) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 16:17:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26116 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:17:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6LGMl9000897; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:16:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6LFHe4008263; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:15:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6L8pe4004662 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:08:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.151] (pm5-151.eos.net [205.133.149.151]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26824 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:08:48 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021204190010.13342.53862.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: hobbit feet Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 16:06:14 -0500 Status: RO My quick scan of the EIGHT or so digests that came today don't show an answer to the question, although I might have missed it. So here goes: According to the DVD, it took nearly two hours to get the hobbits ready each day, most of that for the feet. They did not wear the feet on days that the shooting wouldn't show them (apparently, they had the shots worked out very closely) and were very glad of those days! But some days they didn't get to the shots showing the hobbit feet. Mr. Austin, who played Sam, kept track and there were 50 such days. I would have kept track too! There's all kinds of interesting stuff on the DVD. I highly recommend it. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 16:20:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26137 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:20:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6LH7l9000962; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:17:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6LH1e4009116; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from lutetium (lutetium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6L9re4005168 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:09:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-21-37.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.21.37] helo=dan) by lutetium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18KPjM-0004hD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 21:09:52 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c29d6c$5a5d7be0$251523d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Stunning 1870 Velvet Mantle/B.Altman Label Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:13:37 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, Ebay has a 'Stunning 1870 Velvet Mantle/B.Altman Label' at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1901858292 which may be of interest... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 16:34:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26221 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:34:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6LY3l9002449; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6LY1e4018131; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from infoblvd.net (infoblvd.net [216.42.64.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6LXTe4017822 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:33:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from straight [216.42.67.132] by infoblvd.net (SMTPD32-7.12) id A7A7B168011A; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 16:33:27 -0500 Message-ID: <01f801c29d71$0fbcec60$84432ad8@infoblvd.net> From: "STRAIGHT " To: References: <3DEF09F5.5489.26852631@localhost> <3DEF4B85.619FCDD4@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Subject: [h-cost] Kool Aid dyeing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:34:01 -0500 Status: RO <<<<<>>.. Still have a lot of messages to read, but 1 pkg. to 1 oz. of wool is the proportion, and it needs to be heated. It's quite colorfast. Do not apply a concentrated mix to your teenager's hair-----it's pretty acid, and burns the skin. I know someone who did. Yes, it will color their hair. Works on wool and animal based fibers, not cellulose based (cotton and linen) very well. Just use a quart jar to try it-----dump in a pkg. of KoolAid, add water, add fabric or fiber that's been washed to get out any oil, and set it in the sun for a day. Or oven on low, or other heat source. Yes, microwave too, short time. Then let it cool in solution. If done right, the liquid left will be clear, the fiber having taken up all the color agent. Rinse well. Lots of colors to use, lots of fun! Some of them turn out quite surprising, not what you expected at all. If it's too pale, use 2 pkgs. The blueberry makes a light aqua----or did last year. They keep changing the names and apparently the color content too. Diane S. Diane S. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 16:50:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26320 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:50:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Ln6l9003655; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:49:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Ln2e4025825; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Lmle4025695 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:48:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id gB6Llfg7010309 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200212062147.gB6Llfg7010309@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Bjarne og Leif Drews" at Dec 05, 2002 08:20:12 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:47:41 -0800 (PST) Status: RO where did you get your taffeta? I've been drooling over the sale taffetas at Thai Silks -- they are only $11.20 US per yard right now. > > Guess what? > I got 15 meters of sky blue Silk Taffeta from London today!!! > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 17:26:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26461 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:26:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6MOkl9007333; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:24:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6MOAe4015458; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:24:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6MNme4015248 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:23:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 12200 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2002 22:22:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.90) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 2002 22:22:41 -0000 Message-ID: <3DF1230C.D18BF6D2@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questions abook studies. References: <20021206102107.L71541-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:22:04 -0500 Status: RO Drea Leed wrote: > > I did get to examine a pair of early 17th c. paned sleeves a while back, > and wrote down the details of how the thing was put together. I can > forward you the info, if you're interested. (I didn't get to take photos > unfortunately. :( > Drea please do. I thought about cutting two sleeve patterns in half and using a mutton sleeve top gathing it to the narrower sleeve ,adding trim to cover the seam, laying the panes over the pouf and attaching the panes with buttons or simlper stitches. I fear it will all cave in from the weight of the panes. I wonder if this would work if I used some type of interfacing to keep the fullness? Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 17:37:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26495 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:37:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6MaLl9008460; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:36:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6MaLkG022319; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:36:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6MZKkG021634 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWqTsqFBsFt6YjEySWLxik9RbeMy+Yz6Zyg=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKDNUC28; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:34:43 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Message-ID: <20021206.173353.-65921.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:33:52 -0500 Status: RO <<>> But such a pretty one! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 17:37:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26499 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:37:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6MaGl9008442; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:36:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6MaFkG022254; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:36:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6MXikG020825 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:33:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-58-249-51.s51.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.249.51] helo=rcn.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 18KR2V-0007VI-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:33:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3DF125D0.F2F8425E@rcn.com> From: Catelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-RCN010799 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com References: <2345AB9EF3A3D3118D2300508B0E8B522E7219@MANAFORT2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fox Tails Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:33:52 -0500 Status: RO > Subject: Fox tails, was Re: [h-cost] Tudor question > Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:14:32 -0000 > Hi all, > > I see that Sarah L. Goodman's article on Farthingales and > Bumrolls.... at > > http://www.elizabethanlady.com/farthingales.html > > includes a reference to foxtails being worn in much earlier periods > under the gown to improve the figure, and I have come across a number > of other references to this. However, I'm still baffled as to how this > actually worked, in practise,and would welcome suggestions. > > best wishes > Stevie > > The evidence is scanty. > > If we had more, of course, the evidence would be Of 'scanties'. > > Ahem, sorry, don't know what I was thinking. > > Here's what I found in a brief look through my books: > The evidence is scanty. > > If we had more, of course, the evidence would be Of 'scanties'. > > Ahem, sorry, don't know what I was thinking. > > Here's what I found in a brief look through my books: The evidence is scanty. If we had more, of course, the evidence would be 'of "scantie"'. ahem, sorry, don't know what i was thinking. Here's what I found in a brief look through Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince, by Stella Mary Newton: Page 9, a quote from a chronicle of England known as Brut, covering the years 1333 to 1377, in the section around 1344-6: "And the women surpass the men in their clothing which is so tight that they hand fox-tails under their dresses at the back to hide their arses," & degenerates into the usual blaming of every evil on clothing. A later chronicler, John of Reading, probably relied on this source in his own chronicle. That is all that Ms. Newton could find. Take it for what it's worth. Ann in CT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 17:46:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26553 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:46:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Mk7lB009384; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:46:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6MTIe4018455; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:29:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6MS7e4017749 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:28:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18160 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2002 22:28:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.90) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 2002 22:28:05 -0000 Message-ID: <3DF12453.D070A93@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questions abook studies. References: <3.0.6.32.20021206082555.00d992f0@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:27:31 -0500 Status: RO Margo Anderson wrote: > > This is assuming you are familiar with the basics of pattern making. Start > with a sleeve sloper. draw a horizontal line at the level where you want > the fullness to begin. Slash along this line. Then slash the upper part > of the sleeve into several vertical sections, and pivot them so that the > upper edges flare outward while the lower portions are still touching the > lower part at the sides. Trace. Correct the side lines, to smooth curves > if you want the lowere sleeve to fit tight to the arm, or to straight lines > if you want a more triangular shape. You will probably want to increase the > height of the sleeve cap by as much as several inches, depending on how > much fullness you're adding. Then draw in your lines where you want the > panes to be, slash along those lines, and add seam allowances. > > Clear as mud, no? > Margo its very clear. Honestly. Makes more sense then what I was envisioning. I have learned not to use polyfill to make a sleeve puff out. It manages to make the sleeve heavy which in turn pulls down on the shoulder strap. Thank you, Diana -who is saying a thousand times over I can do this. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 17:53:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26577 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:53:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Mp2l9009813; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Mp1kG029777; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f152.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.152]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6MoikG029532 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:50:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:50:38 -0800 Received: from 12.232.2.255 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 22:50:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.232.2.255] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2002 22:50:38.0685 (UTC) FILETIME=[E58138D0:01C29D79] Subject: [h-cost] (no subject) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 14:50:38 -0800 Status: RO Byt the time I get this out, someone will probably have corrected me, but: The 1851 dress is *not* supposed to be a Quinciniera dress - that's pattern 7159. I suspect that the yucky color scheme is mostly due to the timing of the release - that it came out in their Winter catalog, so they made it in vaguely Christmas-y colors. If you look at the "front and back view" using the design viewer though, it looks as if the two dresses are from the same designer (based on how the design sketch has that peculiar barbie-head on it)... So perhaps there was some intention of making it a second option for a quinciera dress. -Laura the Geek. On Thursday 05 December 2002 07:29 pm, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/5/2002 3:27:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > distantdesigns@hotmail.com writes: > > That > > pattern is being sold as a 15th birthday spanish gown. I can't spell > > that word, but it's a big deal on a girls big birthday to have a ball > > etc. and that is the advertising on this pattern. > > Ah! A quinciera dress! That makes sense. Interesting, though. In these > parts, those dresses tend to be intense pastels (if there is such a > thing--you know, saturated lavender, pink, etc.) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 18:11:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26653 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:11:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6N95l9011993; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:09:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6N94kG008424; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21411.mail.yahoo.com (web21411.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6N89kG007944 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:08:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021206230809.2853.qmail@web21411.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.159.45] by web21411.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:08:09 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <7b.3be0b73.2b212cde@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:08:09 -0800 (PST) Status: RO I think that the decline in membership is due to several issues. When I first heard about H-Cost from someone on the SCA-Garb list, I was being discouraged from subscribing if I had any problems with flame-wars. The impression at that time was that this list spent more time flaming each other than not, and that to subscribe on digest long enough to go through the archives for what I wanted was the best way to go. I didn't listen, and am glad. Yes, there are a lot of heated discussions, and I've watched some people whose advice I dearly treasured go away, but I'm LEARNING. Now that Yahoo and other groups are so prevalent, it is very easy to have several groups which specialize on a time period or culture--so people cut out more of the general groups in order to have time to keep up with those. Real life: simply keeping up with the bills or children is bad enough...but then there are those of you also running a business or researching things for articles, books or lectures. Some people seem to be able to still post here and do all of those things, others cannot. I went the other route...dropped about 35 groups which were specializing in certain cultures or time periods (and other things) and kept this one for a general overview of many more areas. Of course, that leads me to things like my package from Lavolta Press last week, while I was at the LA garment district! Instead of concentrating only on 14th century Welsh, I'm adding things that can only be worn somewhere else. wolfcat (who is definitely glad it's friday!) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 18:19:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26688 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:19:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NI3l9012807; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NI2kG012890; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NCZkG010105 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:12:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gB6NCZPF010104 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:12:35 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20021206161219.A8602@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Japanese link Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:12:34 -0700 Status: RO Please repost the link to the SCA Japanese garb info? Thanks! ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 18:20:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26706 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:20:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NJ1l9012905; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NJ0kG013429; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imf38bis.bellsouth.net (mail119.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NIDkG012952 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:18:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlphaB ([67.35.52.20]) by imf03bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with ESMTP id <20021206224417.BIXO6024.imf03bis.bellsouth.net@AlphaB> for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:44:17 -0500 From: "Ann Neff" To: Subject: Lurking RE: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Message-ID: <003c01c29d78$bf69bf10$5f67fea9@AlphaB> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20021206.132747.-409781.0.catpurson@juno.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:42:19 -0500 Status: RO Hi, My name is Ann and I am a lurker. I come from a Renn Faire background. My local faire (Georgia Renaissance Festival) is not known for its authenticity, but I have caught the urge to make my clothing better and more accurate. I have learned Sooooo much here, and laughed, and yearned, and learned. I use H-Costume almost as I used to specialty magazines for a subjects that I want to learn about. When I have asked questions here, people have always answered me politely and helpfully. Of course, I never tried to act as if I knew everything either! Occasionally, a few people seem to be getting spiteful when they disagree, but overall this is a very polite and kind group. It isn't a flame if someone disagrees, or wants to know your documentation. I have been on lists that were very nasty over beginners' questions, and were haughty if you couldn't go to a certain museum to examine originals. Sorry, I can't afford to travel that way. Even the hierarchy here is one of earned position. Also, I don't have time to sew for the past several months, and this is a very busy list sometimes. I often don't read this list for 2 or 3 days. There were over 160 messages when I started reading this evening (less than 48 hours since I last read). Back to lurking, cheerfully. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lalah T Tillinghast Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 1:28 PM Asking dumb and not so dumb questions, of course. I have been sewing almost all my life, but Medieval clothing is a bit different from what I am used to (but then so were the Star Trek uniforms). I recently started a bit of a thread when I asked about pleating a Tudor gown that I am making from totally inappropriate fabric. The answers I got were helpful and no one flamed me for making a pink polished cotton Tudor gown. If it works, I will make the same gown in the proper fabrics, but Margo's wonderful Elizabethan patterns only go so far in helping with Tudor clothing. If we are to learn, we must ask questions. If we don't ask and don't have the Library of Congress at our fingertips, how do we get it even close to right. Everyone takes liberties with authenticity at one time or another even if it is just sewing the garment with off the rack poly/cotton thread. The main point is to know the correct way to go even if you don't follow it to the max. I got off the SCA garb list because there were too many "authorities" with too little knowledge who were just looking to flame others. This list is much kinder, if a bit too windy at times. Had to put my two cents worth in and add to the breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 18:26:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26741 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:26:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NPEl9013420; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:25:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NPDkG016605; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:25:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NOskG016407 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:24:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.89.142.58]) by mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20021206232447.YIXW13909.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:24:47 +0000 Message-ID: <3DF131C7.83443B40@worldnet.att.net> From: Justine Magill X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20021206141943.26959.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: [h-cost]Current Projects Was how many of us are there? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:24:55 -0500 Status: RO I prefer to look at the bright side of things. This list is a great source of information and sources. Truthfully I dont post often cause I am a busy girl! LOL So, in my copious amounts of spare time, I will at some point complete my big projects. My current projects are as follows: A floor length green silk houppeland, lined with black silk and with long dagged sleeves for my local group's Knight Marshal (sca group) as a thank you for help with leather work A new arming cote for the head of my household of linen and quilted (admittedly machine quilting, but hey, I have only so much time and he needs this soon) Reworking the german renn gown my sister made for me - it is a cranach style gown with a standing collar. It needs lining with horsehair interfacing to make the collar stand and to prevent the front from buckling when I sit. I also need to create the hat that goes with the gown. A Elenora of Toledo dress as found in the Janet Arnold pof. I am currently creating the undergown which will be of an ivory silk, with a built in corset. I know there is no evidence of a corset built into the gown but my sister needs the support. And making it part of the undergown will be easier for her. This project will use heavy linen and reeds for the boning, and is going to be hand sewn completely. I need to fit the mock up/ muslin/ sloper/ toille/ what-ever-you-want-to-call-it to my sister. When that is done, the stitching will commence. The overdress for the above gown, will be made of crimson duchess satin (the colors are reversed, in the original gown the ivory was on the outside, and the crimson was the undergown, my sister looks better in crimson) with the embroidered guards following the pattern outlined in the Janet Arnold book. I have black cotton velvet for the embroidery. I am still trying to decide how I am going to finish the edges of the embroidery when I do the cutting away of the velvet as was done on the original. I think they mentioned wax, I am not sure I want to do that. I am considering a bath of diluted elmers glue. This entire dress is going to be hand done as well. This is my practice piece. The next dress will be a few years coming, but I am working on making myself a Pheonix gown. I need to talk to someone about metal casting, either learning it for myself or doing the sculpting of the wax molds for them so I can replicate the jewelry. I am analyzing the blackwork pattern in the partlet, and I am teaching myself bobbin lace so I can create the ruffs. I need to find appropriate velvet for this gown as well. Unfortunately, I will have to go with glass pearls for the gown, unless I get a bit crazy and buy pearls a bit at a time. It will be a while, but this gown is what the elenora of toldeo gown is the practice piece for. As always, I am available to the members of my shire for whatever sewing needs they have, either to help them with problems or other things, so projects come and go around here. This is the laundry list so far! so, as you can see, I am a tad busy, what with going back to college for my degree and all. Jenne N Kipar wrote: > > Oh Jenne, don't go back into lurking, please? I know it isalways us same ones > who are posting/talking and I know I for one sometimes really do talk too much > (hey, can I help it that I feel so strongly about many things? *laughs*) but > that's also because we _are_ always the same ones posting. It would be > WONDERFUL if more people posted, it really would. > > Nicole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 18:30:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26766 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:30:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NT2l9013906; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NT1kG019339; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta01-srv.alltel.net (mta01.alltel.net [166.102.165.143]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NSxkG019317 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:28:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from shamah ([162.40.197.132]) by mta01-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20021206232858.OMV10620.mta01-srv.alltel.net@shamah> for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:28:58 -0600 From: "Jamie Zdziarski" To: Subject: RE: DSPAM: Lurking RE: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Message-ID: <004501c29d7f$455dae50$0200000a@shamah> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <003c01c29d78$bf69bf10$5f67fea9@AlphaB> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:29:06 -0500 Status: RO Ann, I frequent the GRF too! Didn't make it there last year due to it only being open in the spring....do you know why they quit opening in the fall? Anyhow I'm a lurker, not because I fear flaming but because y'all are so much more knowledgeable than I am in practically everything. I don't always read 100% of the email but there are many discussions that capture my interest. I don't have a particular time period I'm interested in, it ALL interests me. So keep on discussing!! Jamie -----Original Message----- Hi, My name is Ann and I am a lurker. I come from a Renn Faire background. My local faire (Georgia Renaissance Festival) is not known for its authenticity, but I have caught the urge to make my clothing better and more accurate. I have learned Sooooo much here, and laughed, and yearned, and learned. I use H-Costume almost as I used to specialty magazines for a subjects that I want to learn about. When I have asked questions here, people have always answered me politely and helpfully. Of course, I never tried to act as if I knew everything either! Occasionally, a few people seem to be getting spiteful when they disagree, but overall this is a very polite and kind group. It isn't a flame if someone disagrees, or wants to know your documentation. I have been on lists that were very nasty over beginners' questions, and were haughty if you couldn't go to a certain museum to examine originals. Sorry, I can't afford to travel that way. Even the hierarchy here is one of earned position. Also, I don't have time to sew for the past several months, and this is a very busy list sometimes. I often don't read this list for 2 or 3 days. There were over 160 messages when I started reading this evening (less than 48 hours since I last read). Back to lurking, cheerfully. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 18:33:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26787 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:33:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NW3l9014180; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NW2kG021085; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NVNkG020734 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:31:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.25] (as3-4-39.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.25]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gB6NVL005234 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:31:21 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3DF0BDEE.BE661081@inetone.net> References: <3DF0BDEE.BE661081@inetone.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questions abook studies. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:57:49 -0800 Status: RO At 10:10 AM -0500 12/6/02, Dhannti wrote: >I know I have asked a lot of questions before so add this to my >curiosity. Is there a list of recommanded reading for different periods >of clothing styles and construction? I presently own a number of books >but I feel like I am missing something. If there isn't, it would certainly be a useful resource. It can't possibly be complete -- there are periods for which there simply aren't good resources; and it can't possibly be definitive -- there will always be very fuzzy dividing lines between "very useful background material" and "misleading enough that it should be used only by experienced researchers". But it would be interesting to see a composite, annotated list of books for various eras for which people take the position "I can't imagine doing anything in this era without being familiar with this book". Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 18:45:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26855 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:45:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Ni2l9015134; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Ni0kG027738; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from dc-mx15.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx15.cluster0.charter.net [209.225.8.25] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NhZkG027547 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:43:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx15.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 6317763 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:43:29 -0500 Message-ID: <00d001c29d81$33b2e7e0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: References: <3DEF21FF.3820.272EDC4C@localhost> <3DF068C3.2207.2C2B7CBF@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating (was Tudor question) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:42:55 -0600 Status: RO I'm having a hard time imagining how this works. I usually have a hard time trying to imagine what some technique looks like without a picture attached ;-) Could you try explaining it again? Or do you have pictures/sketches of this technique? > Also, many people think that cartridge pleats are only sewn on one > edge (the top.) It really depends on the look one is going for. If > you want them to hang down, you sew them only at the top. If you want > to them to stand out some, you sew them at the top and bottom of the > pleat. Where you place the pleat on the edge makes a difference too. > Also, how much padding, where and how many gathering threads you use, > etc. Re: lurking - I've been on this list for awhile now (three years? four?) but still mostly lurk around the corners. While I too have done some fairly nice garments, especially for my husband, I don't have confidence in my tailoring skills. I feel like I'm just not getting the little details right that make the whole outfit look like it jumped out of a portrait. And I *know* I haven't researched and read as much as some people on the list in my currently chosen area (Elizabethan). So, I hang out, absorb everything that goes by, ooh and aah over everybody's pictures (and hope that one day I, too, will have either a digital camera or a scanner so I can show off too!) and generally learn as much as possible. :-) ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 18:46:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26863 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:46:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Nj1l9015212; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Nj1kG028220; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB6NiqkG028150 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:44:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 24070 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2002 23:44:51 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 2002 23:44:51 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-117.sonic.net [209.148.112.117]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id gB6NipX31340 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:44:51 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3DF136D1.3874B970@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Lurking RE: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? References: <003c01c29d78$bf69bf10$5f67fea9@AlphaB> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:46:26 -0800 Status: RO > Even the hierarchy here is one > of earned position. > There is zero need for any hierarchy on a mailing list. I personally just ignore the whole issue and say whatever I want to whoever I want. Fran -------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 18:48:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26869 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:48:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Nl1l9015346; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Nl0kG029193; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NkfkG028992 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:46:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18KSB5-000LVL-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 23:46:40 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge picture of Arwen without correct underpinnings References: <000b01c29bad$c2edb140$650224d9@dan> <013201c29bb2$20bf3100$31baee0c@c59303a> <3DEE9014.2000303@oldwaylane.net> In-Reply-To: <3DEE9014.2000303@oldwaylane.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:45:03 +0000 Status: RO Judy Mitchell wrote >chiara wrote: >> That is not a bra strap silly. :) >> That is the underdress. You can see that there are three layers to >>this >> dress. Two blue, one cream. The thing you are seeing is the top of the last >> layer. :) > > Actually, it is a bra strap. We thought for a while it might >have been tape - but it's not. And the dress is actually steel grey >(they do a lot of color tweaking). She has three dresses that are this >same 2 layered style, with variations on the sleeves; and another 2 >that are very similar but only single layer. This is apparently her >"Human" style of clothing as opposed to her Elvish styles. > Well, there's your answer. I was sure Elves didn't need bras, but obviously the human element can get a bit droopy ;-) Jean > BTW, Stevie, you didn't see it in the movie because it's not a >dress from FotR, it's briefly in the new one. There have been a few >pics of it around including the one where she's dropping her cape. > > > -Judy Mitchell >http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 18:52:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26889 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:52:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Np1l9015794; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Np0kG001339; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6No2kG000890 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18KSEL-000LlK-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 23:50:01 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: British food question References: <20021204.184214.-211469.0.Cley@juno.com> <3DEF09F5.5489.26852631@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3DEF09F5.5489.26852631@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:48:51 +0000 Status: RO Jane Williams wrote >On 4 Dec 2002 at 15:52, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > >> Jane wrote: >> > Sadly, most British squashes aren't juice. "Orange >> > squash" is usually orange food colouring, orange >> > flavouring, half a ton of sugar, and added Vitamin C >> > to convince you it's healthy. >> >> Ah! We call that Kool Aid here across the pond. 8) > >Well, that explains a mystery. I'd heard of that, and >assumed it was a dressing for burns :) > >If we call something "juice", it's juice. Nope. Here in Scotland, all approximately fruit-flavoured drinks can be "juice" - just like in Manchester, all sweets can be "toffees". We have fizzy juice and diluting juice, as well as "real" juice. Jean >Mainly, >anyway. Take fruit, and squeeze. Maybe add sugar, >preservatives, colour, if it's going in a long-life >carton, but the main content was once fruit. > >"Juice drink" would be a watered down version of the >above. ("contains at least 10% real orange!") > >Then you get squashes with added juice. > >And at the bottom of the ladder, just "squash". Don't >go there. > >BTW, the colourings used in the cheaper drinks stain >cloth quite badly. But they're not fast enough to be >used as dye, AFAIK. (There, costume content!) > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 18:53:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26894 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:53:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Nq2l9015855; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Nq1kG001725; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NpEkG001432 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:51:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6Q00G7H24XKX@mtaout05.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:48:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DF13717.4050607@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] The list, flaming...etc... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:47:35 -0600 Status: RO I have been on this list since late in its first year. It's true there used to be a lot more people on it, with a lot more diverse, ideas, and opinions. I have never been personally flamed, but I think I was once out-referenced and out-curriculum vitaed by someone... they had absolutely no problem using wording, and attitude to convey their opinion that I was a bit underclass to be saying anything. It was never anything outright, but definetely implied. I actually did stop posting or reading the list after that for awhile. Then I decided to the contrary, I had things to talk about. And even at my infantile historic costuming level I could contribute, if nothing more than to get conversations started. And I have learned an enourmous amount. As have others that have stuck around. Not all of the people that are now considered "experts" on this list were experts when they first came on, they were and still are students in many ways. I can remember Penny as a hyper college student (she is still hyper):D, Drea was just beginning her in-depth studies of Elizabethan clothing, and many others just beginning in their journey. I joined this list, not to become a historian, but to learn what was historically accurate, so I could teach others how to fake the look in an affordable way. I still suggest less than historic procedures on some stuff. And it usually gets a "response" or rebuttal, which is ok with me. I think it is a shame that some people left, because a few do get a little over enthusiastic in their passion for accuracy. But that was and is their choice. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 19:01:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26934 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:01:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7002l9016456; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7001kG004778; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6Nx4kG004382 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id gB6Nw0o3012334 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:58:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200212062358.gB6Nw0o3012334@jabberwock.wonderland.com> To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Jean Waddie" at Dec 06, 2002 11:48:51 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] OT, but NOT a food question. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:57:59 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Sometimes I wonder if this list is really all about english/american/aussie/ etc etc etc translation... it seems every month the topic erupts Yet Again of "what do YOU call that?" and it's usually not even sewing or costume related. I've been on the list almost ten years now, and I am still regularly amazed how much that pops up. that, more than any flaming that has ever happened, is the only thing that's made me want to leave. I just kind of shake my head and go "that again?" and delete the next 100 - 150 messages from the list. But, it's a discussion list, and I guess that's what we like to discuss. *ducking before she gets flamed* .heather.meadows. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 19:04:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26955 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:04:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NvBl9016211; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:57:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NvAkG003668; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:57:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6NsjkG002727 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:54:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18KSIu-000MBw-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 23:54:44 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queries about coifs, biggins and headrails References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:53:10 +0000 Status: RO "Headrail" is a word I only use for early medieval, for a large rectangular bit of cloth, fixed in whatever way around your head/neck/shoulders. I go over to "veil" for more specific, shaped things, particularly where they don't wrap around. But most of these distinctions are modern. I haven't a clue what might have been termed a headrail in Elizabethan times. I can't picture anything _big_ enough in Elizabethan headgear. Jean Joy Shillaker wrote >I wonder if any Elizabethan costumers could help me please. > >Is there a difference between a biggins and a coif and if so what is it? > >Does anyone know of any pictures of headrails? or, (fingers crossed) >extant head rails? > >regards >Joy Shillaker > >_________________________________________________________________ >STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 19:19:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27075 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:19:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB70I2l9018019; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB70I0kG011741; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB70FCkG010805 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip156.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.156]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gB70F911029883 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:15:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021205194500.00af37a0@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: NZ and LotR PreRaphaelites In-Reply-To: <20021130140100.95284.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> References: <008501c2986a$798e00e0$e1ceadcb@michaela> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 19:45:36 -0500 Status: RO Hey, Nicole, What does this lamp look like, and where did you get it? Sounds _very_ interesting! -- Mara At 02:01 PM 11/30/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Nicole - about to fix the new ceiling lamp: a 'copy' of those Flemish 17th >century brass ones. *G* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 19:19:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27080 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:19:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB70IFl9018047; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:18:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB70IEkG011833; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:18:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB70FEkG010832 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip156.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.156]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gB70F913029883 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:15:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021205195902.00af37a0@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Color in art (was Tippets) In-Reply-To: <3DEA98DE.6057F497@in-tch.com> References: <200212011419.56014.cathy@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 20:04:10 -0500 Status: RO At 04:18 PM 12/1/2002 -0700, you wrote: >I'm wondering, for instance, about the reds. Now, we've been >experimenting with natural dyes lately (it seems to be the newest "in >thing" in my local SCA group), and have gotten some wonderful reds and >rusts and such with various period-appropriate dyes and mordants and >fibers, but not that eye-popping cherry-red. Darn....memory just kicked >in. I have seen one extant textile (a cut-and-voided velvet) with a red >that cherry-colored. Later time period, though (16th c.). The pre-Columbian (i.e, before Christopher Columbus made his voyage) insect dye that would get you a cherry pink would be kermes, which was pretty scarce and expensive. I think there's another insect dye -- St. John's something or other, it's in one of my books -- that does the same thing, but again, scarce and expensive. Liles says you can get a garnet red with madder root, but you have to add lots of calcium, and it's still not that cherry red color you're talking about; I'm guessing it would still have that rust undertone that you usually get from madder. >Also, despite what seems like an infinite variety of yellows and greens, >I don't see many in pictures...were they painted less often because they >were more common (and hence, less desirable?)? or because it wasn't as >easy to achieve those colors in certain media? Because yellow is one of those dyes (and paint colors) that fades over time, I'd guess... That's one of the 'myths' of 18th century costume. I've heard of people being told that 'green isn't period' -- well, actually, it IS, it's just that by the time that Indian block-printed textile gets to us, the greens have faded to blue because the yellow dye has faded. - Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 20:16:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27271 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:16:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB71E5l9021225; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB71E2kG009657; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB71DSkG009205 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:13:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id gB71CC8f012953; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:12:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200212070112.gB71CC8f012953@jabberwock.wonderland.com> To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] G&H Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:12:12 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Greenberg and Hammer is finally online -- looks like their online store isnt' all there yet, but the corset supplies are up. yay! http://www.greenberg-hammer.com/ now if they'd get their patternmaking supplies online, i'd be thrilled. .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 20:40:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27388 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:40:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB71b2l9022289; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB71b1kG021491; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB71agkG021348 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:36:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.73.2a25f7f3 (16781) for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:36:32 -0500 (EST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Message-ID: <73.2a25f7f3.2b22aaa0@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_73.2a25f7f3.2b22aaa0_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Subject: [h-cost] how many of us are there? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:36:32 EST Status: RO --part1_73.2a25f7f3.2b22aaa0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been on this list off and on since the beginning. I used to post quite a bit in the old days but now that I've got a toddler to chase around the house it's all I can do to keep up with reading email, much less writing it. That's my excuse. ;-) I do think Fran had a good point though about this list not being a list for "100% historically accurate reenactors." I know this may come a surprise to some but...not everyone is trying to be historically accurate all the time! We have different reasons for doing this - theater, fashion design, role-playing games, Halloween/costume parties, movie recreations - are just a few of the examples I can think of where historic *authenticity* may not be a goal at all. I like to think of this list as a list about historic costume in all its permutations -- from poly satin flapper dresses with rayon fringe to silk civ war repros and everything in between. That's the gamut I run anyway! Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com --part1_73.2a25f7f3.2b22aaa0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I've been on this list off and on since the beginning.  I used to post quite a bit in the old days but now that I've got a toddler to chase around the house it's all I can do to keep up with reading email, much less writing it.  That's my excuse.  ;-)

I do think Fran had a good point though about this list not being a list for "100% historically accurate reenactors."  I know this may come a surprise to some but...not everyone is trying to be historically accurate all the time!  We have different reasons for doing this - theater, fashion design, role-playing games, Halloween/costume parties, movie recreations - are just a few of the examples I can think of where historic *authenticity* may not be a goal at all. 

I like to think of this list as a list about historic costume in all its permutations -- from poly satin flapper dresses with rayon fringe to silk civ war repros and everything in between. That's the gamut I run anyway!

Cheers,

Loren Dearborn
marionetta@aol.com

 --part1_73.2a25f7f3.2b22aaa0_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 21:23:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27525 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:23:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB72N1l9024445; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB72N0kG007173; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB72MjkG007119 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:22:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool-63.53.186.244.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.186.244]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18KUc8-0002Ii-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 21:22:44 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20021205113202.00f02400@pop.directcon.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20021205113202.00f02400@pop.directcon.net> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queries about coifs, biggins and headrails Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:55:39 -0800 Status: RO At 11:32 AM -0800 12/5/02, Margo Anderson wrote: >At 09:24 AM 12/05/2002 +0000, Joy Shillaker wrote: >>I wonder if any Elizabethan costumers could help me please. >> >>Is there a difference between a biggins and a coif and if so what is it? >> >the way I classify them, is that the biggins is the baby bonnet shaped >item, usually with a strap or ties under the chin. The coif is the one >that has a point on the forehead and sides that curve in at the cheeks. > >However, I don't know that the distinction was there in the period. In >fact, I think it's likely that "coif" meant any number of styles of closely >fitted headwear, rather the way we use "cap" today. And furthermore, one of those items is a *BIGGIN*. (No "s" at the end.) Renaissance Faire folklore persists in referring to it with the "s" ending due to a long-ago misunderstanding of some sources. (Or at least so says our local Costume Goddess -- I haven't checked the Oxford English Dictionary.) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 21:35:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27579 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:35:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB72Z2l9025028; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB72Z1kG010325; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB72YwkG010285 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:34:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AD259C94014C; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 21:29:57 -0500 Message-ID: <004c01c29d99$86cf87e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01C29D6F.67DA84E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Favorite Designers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:35:32 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C29D6F.67DA84E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is a new topic for consideration: With the Twentieth Century = getting further behind us, and it was a century when fashion designers = became Known in their own right, who impresses you or has influenced = your own design interpretations and what influence will they make in the = ever evolving world of Historical Costuming. Anne Hollander in "Seeing = Through Clothes" makes the case for fashion of any age being re = interpreted subsequently in terms of the current mode of aesthetics; ( = and this can certainly be observed in the 20th C ideas pursued by the = movie mogul designers, as well as any time the Fashion runways quote the = fads and fancies of the past.) {Another semi-lurker, Kathleen M...A = list observer since the early 90's.]=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C29D6F.67DA84E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here is a new topic for consideration: With the = Twentieth=20 Century getting further behind us, and it was a century when fashion = designers=20 became Known in their own right, who impresses you or has influenced = your own=20 design interpretations and what influence will they make in the ever = evolving=20 world of Historical Costuming. Anne Hollander in "Seeing Through = Clothes" makes=20 the case for fashion of any age being re interpreted subsequently in = terms of=20 the current mode of aesthetics; ( and this can certainly be observed in = the 20th=20 C ideas pursued by the movie mogul designers, as well as any time the = Fashion=20 runways quote the fads and fancies of the past.)   {Another=20 semi-lurker, Kathleen M...A list observer since the early=20 90's.] 
------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C29D6F.67DA84E0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 21:49:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27611 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:49:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7284l9023732; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:08:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7281kG003015; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB727CkG002776 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:07:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-64-175-46-245.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@64.175.46.245 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 02:07:11 -0000 Message-ID: <018e01c29d95$d004d220$f52eaf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <005e01c29c93$55ae0a30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: [h-cost] 18th Century Dress detail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:10:28 -0800 Status: RO Bjarne, since you popped up, perhaps you would know the answer to this question. I just got my copy of "Fashion" from KCI and the pictures of dresses from your period are STUNNING! Most of them have what appears to be pinked ruching, or gathered self "ribbons" made of the dress fabric all up and down the fronts of the dresses. The unfinished edges of the fabric that has been pinked or otherwise cut are still nice and clean. How does that work? I cut fabric with pinkers and sometimes it still frays, particularly over time. I use fray check in theater, but obviously that did not exist back then. What kept the pinked edges neat? Better fabrics? A certain weave? Something I'm missing? Anyone with any knowledge may certainly pipe up. It's a marvelous book. Thanks to the original poster for mentioning it was available. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:20 AM Subject: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta > Guess what? > I got 15 meters of sky blue Silk Taffeta from London today!!! > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 22:17:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27693 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:17:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB73G2l9026841; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB73G1kG021865; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB73F0kG021594 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-29-103.o1.jps.net ([216.119.29.103] helo=pavilion) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18KVQi-0000l2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 19:15:00 -0800 Message-ID: <007801c29d9f$a40d6f60$671d77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <3DF13717.4050607@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The list, flaming...etc... Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:18:26 -0800 Status: RO Well, let's see, I think my first comment after lurking around on this list for a month or two was to proclaim that linen was dyed from 1st century AD and what a response I got from that one! I suppose I could have taken it personally and unsubscribed, but I happen to know a bit about the existance of 14th century coloured linen so I attributed the comments I received as extream stupidity. I have since learned that it pays to read all the threads in a subject before commenting as the discussion changes and the question one thinks they are answering is no longer the question at hand. And I must say, that I had not ever thought about linen's use as an outer garment seriously having done living history in hot and humid Brisbane where it was our fabric of choice, so I was thankful that the discussion took place. But, if I had received such a reception when I first started costuming it would have put a real damper on my enthusiasm. This is a great hobby and those just starting out should be encouraged which I do see happening here. I think the idea of a novice day or question is great. Cheers, Lisa Sinervo Threadneedle St. Clothiers www.ThreadneedleSt.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 22:21:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27721 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:21:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB73K5l9027038; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB73K1kG022948; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB73JvkG022926 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:19:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.58] (as3-4-72.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.58]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gB73Ju018732 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:19:56 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20021206184052.42487.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021206184052.42487.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:01:29 -0800 Status: RO At 10:40 AM -0800 12/6/02, Tasha McGann wrote: >In general, though, I don't provide information here >anymore unless I'm 100% air-tight sure about it, >because it WILL be challenged. That may be because >there's an unspoken hierarchy on this list -- some >folks aren't proven, and thus are challenged. Others >are known, and are sacrosanct (sometimes). Just a >thought. (Please don't shoot me.) I think there's plenty of room for posting things that one isn't 100% air-tight sure about -- I think it's just a matter of distinguishing the different types of information clearly. People might get riled up if one posted, "Peasants in Lower Slobovia wore socks on their heads" whereas a posting along the lines of , "I've seen some illustrations of peasants in Lower Slobovia with something on their heads that looks remarkably similar to a sock" might provoke an enthusiastic thread about hat construction and Slobovian footwear styles. My experience -- on this as well as other lists -- is that you aren't entirely off-base on the "unspoken hierarchy" observation, but I don't see it as a sinister plot. :) If person X has a history of providing verifiable support and well-reasoned arguments for their statements and conclusions, then they're likely to be cut more slack if they pop off a random comment without supplying the full support and arguments (although a person of this sort is also generally happy to supply them when time allows if asked), and similarly, person X is likely to be given a bit more credence if they come up with an unusual theory or explanation if they have a past history of demonstrating well-constructed and solidly-based theories. If said person X trades on this tendency too heavily, they're likely to lose that status, so it's a fairly self-regulating system. If they stop putting out, they stop being cut the slack. (I tend to be aware of this dynamic because there are a number of subjects, on various lists, where I get cut far more slack than _I_ think I ought to be, and I try to be very careful about _not_ getting lazy about supplying the backup information and reasoning.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 22:34:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27783 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:34:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB73Y2l9027508; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB73Y1kG027069; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB73XQkG026923 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:33:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool-63.53.186.237.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.186.237] helo=[63.53.186.244]) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18KViX-0005QJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 22:33:25 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <7F170921.34AC662E.00862037@aol.com> References: <7F170921.34AC662E.00862037@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:13:53 -0800 Status: RO At 12:04 PM -0500 12/6/02, Tudorldy@aol.com wrote: >[snipping much articulate discussion] >...My impression is at times, that folks (with notable exceptions) >deal a little harshly with people who take 'shortcuts' (i.e., 1/4" >steels in a 1570s pair of bodies, for instance) that were perfectly >acceptable ten years ago. I know quite a few of the people on this list, and I think you're only partly right about this. It's true that we have quite a few people who start out assuming that people are trying for authenticity. Partly I think that's due to the natural human tendency all of us have to think that everybody else is "just like us" . It also seems to me quite likely that the focus of the list has gradually shifted in that direction, due to the great progress that has been made in knowledge over the last decade or so. However if anyone is concerned about possible criticism for "shortcuts", there's a way to avoid most of it. Just mention, "I know this isn't absolutely authentic, but it's what I can get (or afford, or do, or have time for) right now." Those with _good_ manners, at least, will be much more likely to speak kindly and provide help in doing what you _can_ do in the best way possible. You'll have seen this happen, for instance, with a few recent listmembers who have posted about costuming high school plays with zero budgets, or what to dress an elementary school student in for a special theme day. People who are willing to explain what they're doing _do_ get advice along the lines they're working on. I think the rudeness, most of it totally unintentional, comes purely and simply from posters rushing in to advise without fully understanding the parameters within which the other person is working. We can probably all do a bit better about _explaining_ up front what we're aiming for, rather than letting everyone else make assumptions that can lead to missteps. We can also probably do better at _asking_ what someone is aiming for before jumping in. (As I'm sure you realize, sometimes there's a complaint from the opposite side, too. When someone is looking high and low for suitable linen sewing thread for an especially dyed-in-the-wool historical project, for instance, it can be quite frustrating to hear "But why don't you just use polyester, it's so much easier?" ) Explaining oneself saves _so_ much trouble.... -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 23:27:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27994 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:27:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB74Q7l9000314; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:26:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB74Q1kG011622; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB74PCkG011370 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:25:13 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200212070425.gB74PCkG011370@net.indra.com> Received: from rwcrwbc58 (rwcrwbc58.attbi.com[204.127.198.47]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <20021207042507053003n9i9e>; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:25:07 +0000 Received: from [205.225.207.97] by rwcrwbc58; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 19:31:37 +0000 From: mabse@attbi.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 5 2002) X-Authenticated-Sender: bWFic2VAYXR0YmkuY29t Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 19:31:37 +0000 Status: RO I am relatively new, and I have posted several times. I always feel like a complete idiot whenever I do, but oh, well, it is not an unfamiliar sensation. My fifteen year old daughter who has been obsessed with ballet to the exclusion of most any other activity including eating and sleeping came home yesterday and asked me if I could teach her to draft patterns. Apparently, she had a lecture in her french class from someone from the fashion design institute in San Francisco on the history of French fashion. It must have been a great lecture because she was telling me what she liked and disliked about each era. So now rather than being an astronomer or volcanologist like she has wanted to be since second grade she says she wants to be a fashion designer. She'll change her mind. Rocket science has been the chosen profession in my family for three generations now and I don't see her doing anything else, well, except for ballet. This may seem off topic, but my point, and I do have one, is to let those of you who do this kind of outreach know that it is valued and appreciated. Someone made a difference in her life opening up the world of costume to her, and it probably could have been any of you. So feel good about the work you do researching, documenting and diseminating the kind of information that the people in this group specialize in. Maryann, who is now in the middle of Nutcracker hell. > --- Justine Magill wrote: > *de-lurking* > > > > Actually, the nasty flaming is exactly why I dont post anymore. I sometimes > > do not > > get my point across clearly, and do not say all I meant to because I am > > always in > > somewhat of a hurry due to an insane schedule. Also, I only get to check > > mail in > > the early morning before work, and after work. > > Oh Jenne, don't go back into lurking, please? I know it isalways us same ones > who are posting/talking and I know I for one sometimes really do talk too much > (hey, can I help it that I feel so strongly about many things? *laughs*) but > that's also because we _are_ always the same ones posting. It would be > WONDERFUL if more people posted, it really would. > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 23:33:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28010 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:33:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB74W6l9000632; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:32:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB74W1kG013434; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB74VVkG013309 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:31:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (phil2054.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.137.54]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB74VMxj006902 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:31:23 -0500 Message-ID: <3DF17AE2.1D797C7F@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questions abook studies. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 23:36:50 -0500 Status: RO Hi, All. Amen to the aforementioned comments. If you think women's clothing is hard to accurately document back from the 15th Cent., try looking at such things as men's hose and patterns for cut, wear, etc.. The folks from the Company of St. George (Gerry and John's group) have done signal service, yet there are many differences of opinion on such subjects as the type of wool used and it's effect on the stretch of the cloth (the Merino Controversy), the proper cut of hose, etc. BTW, what is Scott's last publish date for "Gothic Europe", and does anyone have a spare copy for sale? I have seen portions, but I'd like a working copy. I also need a copy of "Visual History" by the same author. I haven't checked e-bay, I'm just asking around the community first... Thanks, Mike T. > > Well, that's a strong statement :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Dec 6 23:34:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28015 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:34:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB74X1l9000669; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB74X1kG013653; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB74WCkG013463 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:32:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from VALINOR ([24.103.127.8]) by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.06 201-253-122-126-106-20020509) with ESMTP id <20021207043206.DTFP4292.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:32:06 -0500 Message-ID: <05e601c29da9$988a27a0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.103.127.8] using ID at Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:32:06 -0500 Subject: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:32:05 -0500 Status: RO I tried posting this earlier, but I'm not sure it got to the list. Here goes... Well now that I've pretty much solved my wedding dress problem, I'm wondering about my guy. I don't think he's likely to want to wear a houppelande or some such, and definitely not the silly shoes. So I'm trying to think of something different that would still be period (late 14th to early 15th c). He's got dark skin, so I was thinking maybe a nifty Moorish costume of some sort. Does anybody have any information on Moorish (or any middle-eastern/North African) costume of this era? I haven't been able to find much detailed info online... -- Maral _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 00:05:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28079 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:05:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7542l9002304; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7541kG021414; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB753ZkG021321 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:03:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-16-49.o1.jps.net ([216.119.16.49] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18KX7m-0004cD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 21:03:35 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c29dae$cff97e20$311077d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <05e601c29da9$988a27a0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question. Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:09:23 -0800 Status: RO Maral This did make the list before and all I thought was that I fancied poulaines even more than tippets so I decided to reserve my comment this time. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 8:32 PM Subject: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question. > I tried posting this earlier, but I'm not sure it got to the list. Here > goes... > > Well now that I've pretty much solved my wedding dress problem, I'm > wondering about > my guy. I don't think he's likely to want to wear a houppelande or some > such, and definitely not the silly shoes. So I'm trying to think of > something different that would still be period (late 14th to early 15th c). > He's got dark skin, so I was thinking maybe a nifty Moorish costume of some > sort. Does anybody have any information on Moorish (or any > middle-eastern/North African) costume of this era? I haven't been able to > find much detailed info online... > > -- Maral > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 00:06:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28083 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:06:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7552l9002367; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7551kG021756; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB754bkG021653 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:04:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 29178 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2002 05:04:37 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 05:04:37 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-75.sonic.net [209.148.112.75]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id gB754aX28598 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:04:36 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3DF181C4.FDD17762@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? References: <7F170921.34AC662E.00862037@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 21:06:12 -0800 Status: RO > > > However if anyone is concerned about possible criticism for > "shortcuts", there's a way to avoid most of it. Just mention, "I know > this isn't absolutely authentic, but it's what I can get (or afford, > or do, or have time for) right now." Those with _good_ manners, at > least, will be much more likely to speak kindly and provide help in > doing what you _can_ do in the best way possible. If the person does not state what their purpose is, it would be better to ask if authenticity is indeed their desire--rather than assuming that the person is aspiring to it and you just need to know what their limits are. Authenticity is simply not relevant for some costuming purposes. People should not have to start out with an apology to those for whom it is more relevant. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 00:24:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28182 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:24:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB75O3l9003106; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB75O1kG026729; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB75NikG026644 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:23:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24040 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:32:28 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questions abook studies. In-Reply-To: <3DF17AE2.1D797C7F@dandy.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:32:28 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, leigh tartaglio wrote: > BTW, what is Scott's last publish date for "Gothic Europe", and does > anyone have a spare copy for sale? I have seen portions, but I'd like > a working copy. I also need a copy of "Visual History" by the same > author. You'll have better luck finding the Visual History book, as that series was longer-lived. Late Gothic Europe came out in 1980. I have been looking for a copy of since maybe 1984 and still don't have one. I had ordered it through a distributor, but it never arrived. I figured I'd see it remaindered eventually, but I never did, and I was unable to find it in most libraries. I found out why when I met Margaret Scott in 1989 and asked her where I might find a copy, as I had had no luck in the London bookstores either. She described an Unfortunate Series of Events. It seems it got a bad review in one of the major US library journals (mostly on the basis of the picture reproductions, which were not particularly good quality), and as a result very few US libraries bought it -- so now you know why it's scarce on this side of the water. Then the remaining copies went up in smoke in a warehouse fire, so there aren't a lot of circulating extras anywhere. The book was first in a series of coffee-table costume books called the "History of Dress" series. The second book was Renaissance Dress in Italy by Jacqueline Herald (1981). The publisher listed on the Herald book was Bell & Hyman in England, and Humanities Press of New Jersey on the American side, though I don't know if any books were actually printed here. On the Scott book, though, the English publisher is Mills & Boon, which is better known for publishing romance novels (sort of like Harlequin). I'm not sure how the ownership of the series worked -- my vague memory is the Mills & Boon started it, they sold the series to Bell & Hyman, and the latter axed it after the second volume. But the story may have been more complicated. In any case, there were never more than two volumes published. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 00:43:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28236 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:43:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB75h3l9003948; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB75h1kG001255; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB75gbkG001190 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id WAA29802 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:04:33 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200212070604.WAA29802@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Japanese link Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:04:33 -0800 (PST) Status: RO http://www.raito.com/royalty/index.html under "Projects" Another quick'n'dirty set of directions: http://luxnova.home.mindspring.com/samuraigame/hakama.html http://luxnova.home.mindspring.com/samuraigame/yukata.html Japanese costume museum: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/index.htm Japanese ukiyo-e ningyo (geisha and actor dolls): http://web.clas.ufl.edu/users/jshoaf/Jdolls/today.htm Japanese crafts and dolls (and kits): http://azumijapanesegallery.com/ A japanese shop that has an english version (good for the photos): http://www.shop-japan.co.jp/english-boku/index.3html.htm I'd also suggest renting Roshimon (Heian-kyo period), or Yojimbo (Edo period) for a really _good_ look at the costumes and how they move. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 02:51:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25894 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:51:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB77j5l9008129; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:45:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB77j1kG028887; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB77iwkG028857 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:44:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A6F95BA802A4; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 01:44:57 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A6FA43000A0; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 01:44:58 -0600 Message-ID: <00b301c29dc4$8f541b80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <004c01c29d99$86cf87e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Designers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AF_01C29D9A.A5BC4A20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:45:05 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01C29D9A.A5BC4A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathleen, One of my big areas of weakness is in fashion designers. My 20th costume history was in 1976. We followed the popular designers of the day, but not the past ones. We studied silhouettes and name of articles of a costume. Being on two email lists, vintage and sewretro, sparked my interest about past designers. They kept talking about this designers and that I had no idea who they were talking about. I was thrilled to get the Hudson and Thames, Dictionary of Fashion Designers and Fashion and could look the designer up when someone mentioned them. This book has become my fashion bible. It doesn't cover every designer, but does carry the most popular ones. I have always been partial to Dior as one of my favorites. But right now I am doing some heavy research into the designer from 1920-1925. I have tons of illustrations from about 30 Parisian designers during this time. I am working on writing bios for them. I am really having a tough time finding bio information about some of the designers. I am compiling all of this information to make an e-book. The way I will be presenting each designer is to have a bio page and then have thumbnails in sequence of time of their designs from 1920-1923. So the reader will see how their designs evolved. It is a small time frame, but a lot happened in the evolution of dress during these four years. What I am really fascinated while compiling this information is the later designers who started out with the 1920s designers. I am also interested in how the '20s designers got their start in the fashion business. Its almost like making a family tree of designers. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01C29D9A.A5BC4A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kathleen,
 
One of my big areas of weakness is in fashion designers.  = My 20th costume history was in 1976.  We followed the popular=20 designers of the day, but not the past ones.  We studied = silhouettes and=20 name of articles of a costume.  Being on two email lists, vintage = and=20 sewretro, sparked my interest about past designers.  They kept = talking=20 about this designers and that I had no idea who they were talking = about.  I=20 was thrilled to get the Hudson and Thames, Dictionary of Fashion = Designers and=20 Fashion and could look the designer up when someone mentioned = them.  This=20 book has become my fashion bible.  It doesn't cover every designer, = but=20 does carry the most popular ones. 
    
I have always been partial to Dior as one of my favorites.  = But right=20 now I am doing some heavy research into the designer from = 1920-1925.  I=20 have tons of illustrations from about 30 Parisian designers during = this=20 time.  I am working on writing bios for them.  I am = really having=20 a tough time finding bio information about some of the designers.  = I am=20 compiling all of this information to make an e-book.  The way I = will be=20 presenting each designer is to have a bio page and then have thumbnails = in=20 sequence of time of their designs from 1920-1923.  So the reader = will see=20 how their designs evolved.  It is a small time frame, but a lot = happened in=20 the evolution of dress during these four years.
 
What I am really fascinated while compiling this = information is=20 the later designers who started out with the 1920s designers.  = I am=20 also interested in how the '20s designers got their start in the = fashion=20 business.  Its almost like making a family tree of designers.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
 
------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01C29D9A.A5BC4A20-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 03:25:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21923 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:25:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB78EwoZ009463; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:24:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB786EkG003723; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:06:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB784dkG003310 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:04:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021207080432.NGSP9037.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:04:32 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question. Message-ID: <3DF1AB93.19345.30CC76ED@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000c01c29dae$cff97e20$311077d8@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:04:35 -0000 Status: RO On 6 Dec 2002 at 21:09, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > I tried posting this earlier, but I'm not sure it got to the list. It made it, and I was assuming one of the Experts would have answered it by now. > > Here goes... > > Well now that I've pretty much solved my wedding dress problem, I'm > > wondering about my guy. .... > > He's got dark skin, so I was thinking maybe a nifty Moorish costume > > of > some > > sort. Does anybody have any information on Moorish (or any > > middle-eastern/North African) costume of this era? Looking through my usual SCA_related sites for general info: The Florilegium http://www.florilegium.org/ seems to have a Clothes section, and a Moorish article within that, which might or might not be of use. Cariodoc's Miscellany http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/miscellany.ht ml also has stuff on this period: I know he does a lot of work on the food, so would guess that he'd know something about the clothing. Sorry this is a bit imprecise, but it might be slightly better than zero :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 03:38:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02396 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:38:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB78c2l9010601; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB78c1kG011860; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB78bekG011771 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:37:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A353273E0270; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 02:37:39 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A354C4500CA; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 02:37:40 -0600 Message-ID: <00dc01c29dcb$ec5af0e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20021206184052.42487.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:37:48 -0500 Status: RO I am so thrilled to see so many lurkers coming out!!!!!! Welcome to the newcomers. Please introduce yourself. I never realized that there was a hierarchy on the list. So I called my asst. Susan (a lurker on the list) to explain to me. I guess I just love to talk to everyone who loves costume, so I didn't notice. Truly, I know there are people who have spend their life or a large portion of it studying costume. There are very few people that I have met in our industry that I would call an expert... probably the best experts that I have met are Valerie Steele and Richard Martin, for their time periods and areas of study. I have not come across anyone who is an expert in all time periods for historic costume. Some can tell you all the general silhouettes the time periods, but not all the particulars. No questions are dumb questions... I can give a really good example. I just finished teaching my 1912 film class for the third time. I had spent five years studying the costumes from these films and watched them so many times. At first, the students hardly asked questions. I explained that no questions are dumb questions. I have taught every type of student from 1st grade through college. If you have a question chances are someone else had that same question. The students started asking questions!!!! Even though I have watched these films so many times, these students asked about things I had never noticed in the films. I cherish when someone asks these types of questions, for when I looked up the information and re-watched that section of the film, I learned something too. A lot of students don't realize how much they inspire teachers to further their research. Sometimes teachers or researchers see their work over and over that they miss the little things that can make a big difference. It is really wonderful to have someone else's perspective if you listen with an open mind. When I was teaching computer in public school, I would have a know-it-all come into my class. The student would say, "I don't really have to pay attention because I already know this." My policy is... If you learn one new thing in class, it may be the one thing you really needed to know. If you choose to ignore the class, that one thing could pass you by. Everyone's input is important. You might ask that one question that might shed the light on a long time problem. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 03:52:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12850 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:51:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB78p5l9011147; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:51:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB78p1kG014193; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB78o5kG014008 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:50:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A63C67D019E; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 02:50:04 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A63D112F013E; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 02:50:05 -0600 Message-ID: <00e601c29dcd$a8413f20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <3DF13717.4050607@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The list, flaming...etc... X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:50:13 -0500 Status: RO Hi Linda, Good to see you again. Are you using a walking cane, you h-costume old timer!!! ROTFLMBO!!!!! (I just had to get you back for the hyper remark.) I have never considered myself at an expert at anything but changing diapers and having sons! Thank God I retired from changing diapers! Really I hop, skip, and jump across so many time periods and types of costume, I am nothing but a lover of fashion and gab. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 04:20:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07169 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:20:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB79J6l9012090; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB79J2kG019619; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB79I6kG019357 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:18:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-154.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.154]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANK78852; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:15:54 GMT Message-ID: <01ef01c29dd2$3ab79d00$4d6a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <05e601c29da9$988a27a0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E0_01C29DD2.09A50D60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:21:34 -0000 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01E0_01C29DD2.09A50D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Does anybody have any information on Moorish (or any middle-eastern/North African) costume of this era? I haven't been able = to find much detailed info online... There is a whole SCA subgroup dedicated to this, but I'm not SCA so I'm = unsure where... Here we go try Middle-Eastern Costuming of 13th Century by Rozalynd of Thornaby on Tees http://users.lazerlink.com/~dwarph/v1n1/al-must_v1N1.html#RTFToC11 And a load more links for the Arts & Science pages of the SCA a.. Costume Guidelines (16th century Turkish)=20 b.. Costumes for Various Styles of Oriental Dance=20 c.. Egyptian horseman's outfit, 6th century=20 d.. Costume for A 15th Century Ghwazee Wedding Dance=20 e.. The Folk Dress/Beledi Dress=20 f.. Harem Pants=20 g.. How to Hijab: Your Guide to the Islamic Dress Code=20 h.. Islamic Clothing, Jewelry, and Make-Up=20 i.. Islamic Clothing - Free Patterns=20 j.. The Islamic Dress Code=20 k.. Maghribi Women's Costume=20 l.. Medieval Middle Eastern Garb: Basic Garments Throughout the East = with Pictures and Patterns=20 m.. Middle Eastern Costume Links=20 n.. Middle-Eastern Costuming of 13th Century (or here)=20 o.. Muslim Sexual Modesty=20 p.. Near and Middle Eastern Costume Sites Worth Seeing=20 q.. Near and Middle Eastern Costume Bibliography=20 r.. Notes on Clothing from Social Life Under the Abbasids=20 s.. Notes on Islamic Clothing=20 t.. Oriental Costumes: Their Designs and Colors=20 u.. Palace Attire and Garments: The Costumes of the Sultans=20 v.. Persian Clothing, with some references to other Middle Eastern = styles=20 w.. A Quick Guide to Period Garb for a Turkish Lady=20 x.. Seljuk and Ottoman Periods: Women's Clothing=20 y.. Seljuk Female Costume Patterns and Seljuk Male Costume Patterns=20 z.. 6th and 7th Century Sasanian (Persian) Clothing=20 aa.. 16th Century Persian Women's Clothing=20 ab.. The Tarpus: A Very Brief View of the Turkish Hat with two pictures: = 1 and 2=20 ac.. Turkestani Coat=20 ad.. A Turkish Lady's Ensemble with five images: 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5=20 ae..=20 af.. Mel ag.. This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have = received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. ------=_NextPart_000_01E0_01C29DD2.09A50D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =FF=FE<=00!=00D=00O=00C=00T=00Y=00P=00E=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =00P=00U=00B=00L=00I=00C=00 = =00"=00-=00/=00/=00W=003=00C=00/=00/=00D=00T=00D=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =004=00.=000=00 = =00T=00r=00a=00n=00s=00i=00t=00i=00o=00n=00a=00l=00/=00/=00E=00N=00"=00>=00= =0D=00=0A= =00<=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00<=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00t=00e=00x=00t=00/=00h=00t=00m=00= l=00;=00 = =00c=00h=00a=00r=00s=00e=00t=00=3D=00u=00n=00i=00c=00o=00d=00e=00"=00 = =00h=00t=00t=00p=00-=00e=00q=00u=00i=00v=00=3D=00C=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00= t=00-=00T=00y=00p=00e=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00M=00S=00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = 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<=00/=00L=00I=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00/=00B=00O=00D=00Y=00>=00<= =00/=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 ------=_NextPart_000_01E0_01C29DD2.09A50D60-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 04:38:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07217 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:38:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB79bkl9013142; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:37:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB79bZkG024275; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:37:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB79YnkG023533 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-154.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.154]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANK79369; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:32:48 GMT Message-ID: <01f801c29dd4$9752aa80$4d6a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021206184052.42487.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> <00dc01c29dcb$ec5af0e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:39:50 -0000 Status: RO I always think everyone starts off with no knowledge about any subject and therefore it is perfectly acceptable to ask any question. But at the same time I think that on occasion when answering the same or similar question again & again, posters might just rush off an answer without being as gentle as they might, this is probably due to time constraints & that understandably, their interests lie futher along the learning curve, but the people who do answer do at least bother to do so, which I think is to be appriciated. There is also the problem of style of writing & cultural differences in exchanges, this has lead me to be accused of being over harsh in the past, wheras to my mind I am answering as I always have but the reader does not read what I say as what I meant ! OTOH I have totally misunderstood others posts, over the years. Hopefully, I've learnt to appriciate these differances and try to accomodate the differences as much as possible. The great thing about these lists IS the exchange of ideas and if we were all too frightened to disagree we would gain far less. Everyone can only truely interpret a thing from their own experiance, but can learn to see differences in perspective from others, this is what I love about email lists ! THis list is pretty good on the whole. I drop in on a UK based re-enactment board once in a while & I am really ashamed of the way novices are treated "you f***in idiot" and similar phases being far to common, it is quite disgusting really and this is often to school kids asking for help !! Ok later in life "please tell me everything about the middle ages" does seem an unreasonable question, but it isn't to a child who has no where near grasped the time scale, even those of us used to all this time hopping don't really understand everything & definatly about every time ! As you progress you focus (or focii) get narrower, 1265 England, 1874 England or whatever. Anyway that isn't what happens here thank goodness. Anyway I've rambled on, but what I want to say is nobody should be afraid to ask anything, but at the same time everyone should also understand those answering are not the angellic host and may from time to time answer less that perfectly, but in general those that answer are putting in positive input, not the totally negative I've seen elsewhere. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 04:39:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07223 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:39:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB79d3l9013207; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:39:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB79d1kG024620; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB79b3kG024084 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-154.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.154]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANK79436; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:35:01 GMT Message-ID: <020d01c29dd4$e6743c00$4d6a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <200212062358.gB6Nw0o3012334@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, but NOT a food question. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:42:03 -0000 Status: RO I think it helps us to understand the difficulies in talking over a multi cultural list, if I'm not interested I hit the delete button, whether on OT subjects or costume subject I have no interest in. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 05:32:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07380 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:32:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7AV7l9015010; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:31:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7AV4kG003667; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:31:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from nemesis.systems.pipex.net (nemesis.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7AUIkG003523 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:30:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by nemesis.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 71DF21600810D for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:30:09 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00a401c29ddb$ab1e8d20$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: References: <20021206184052.42487.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> <00dc01c29dcb$ec5af0e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Delurking . . . with a Roman Question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:30:30 -0000 Status: RO Hello Everyone ! Since there seems to be a mood of helpfulness abroad, and not many questions being asked to use it up, I've nerved myself to ask about the subject that's been worrying me lately. I know it's not the sort of historic costume that this group usually finds itself discussing, but someone may know about it. Web searches have produced only fairly thin information so far, and the books I have available are very vague indeed. Please, how do I dress as a fairly wealthy Roman lady of the time of Cicero ? It is for a party with my Latin class on 17th December, so I would like it to be as authentic as I can manage, and - especially - I would like to be able to answer questions about it. So where my clothing isn't very accurate, I would like to be able to explain about it. Here are some specific areas that I am wondering about:- 1. What about underwear ? I want to get the general shape right, and have heard that Roman ladies wore - among other things - corsets, but don't know when, or what sort. (This particularly concerns me because I must wear a bra, due to mastectomy/prosthesis requirements, and I'm fairly plump, too.) 2. How should I decorate the fabric ? I've heard of gold thread in finds: would that be couched embroidery ? I've got some good linen waiting to be used, but could only add simple embroidery in the time available - what patterns would be appropriate ? What about coloured wools ? (If the only answer is woven gold threads, or complicated sewing, then I'd better go down the social scale a bit !) 3. What about hairstyles and jewellery ? I've got long straight hair, and couldn't go in for a great bush of little curls: could I get away with putting it up in a bun like the Greek ladies. I know I won't need a veil, (thank goodness), but should I have some other sort of head-dress ? Were necklaces very common ? I do have some rings, brooches and a bracelet that are copies of finds, would they be enough ? Finally, I would like to thank everyone for the immense pleasure I have had over the years from reading your replies to even the most abstruse of costuming questions, whether historical research or theatrical practicalities, yours sincerely, Linda Walton, (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 05:47:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07433 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:47:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Al4l9015416; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:47:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Al1kG007067; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7AkGkG006911 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:46:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-154.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.154]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANK81905; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:44:07 GMT Message-ID: <02d801c29dde$8df465a0$4d6a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021206184052.42487.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> <00dc01c29dcb$ec5af0e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <00a401c29ddb$ab1e8d20$97725651@bella> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Delurking . . . with a Roman Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:51:08 -0000 Status: RO I know very little about Roman clothing I'm afraid, but a friend of mine wrote a book on it :) Here we go Roman clothing and fasion A T Croom, it is a UK publication so you might be able to get in in the library (it is mainly UK civilian clothing) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 06:18:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07544 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:18:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7BI4l9016135; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:18:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7BI0kG015241; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7BHfkG015185 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:17:41 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207111740.31375.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 11:17:40 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th Century Dress detail To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <018e01c29d95$d004d220$f52eaf40@angelap3a8d978> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:17:40 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Cabbage Rose wrote: > > I cut fabric with pinkers and sometimes it still frays, particularly over > time. I use fray check in theater, but obviously that did not exist back > then. What kept the pinked edges neat? Better fabrics? A certain weave? > Something I'm missing? > > Anyone with any knowledge may certainly pipe up. It's a marvelous book. > Thanks to the original poster for mentioning it was available. Just an observation, since 18th c is not my field as everyone knows by now and thus I don't do any pinking, but since you asked for comments, do you have the book Fashion in Detail from the V&A? There are quite a few pinked silks and they _are_ fraying a bit. I suppose it could be less because of a closer/tighter taffeta weave? Anyway, I tried Gum Arabic on my silk ribbons for the 1660s stuff and I am not happy with it, it dries very stiff. Didn't someone say they used that for 16th c. cuts & slashes? How did they manage to not have everything get awfully stiff? Anyway, have you tried pinking on a really good taffeta like the Imperial Taffeta that Bjarne talked about? I did some snipping on mine, and even after a year I found that when I re-did the hem that had torn and was snipped and had been stepped upon, it actually didn't fray very much to my surprise. Perhaps pinking works a lot like those zig-zag scissors (I don't know the proper English term for them) where only the 'peaks' fray a bit. Not a proper answer, but some observations nevertheless. nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 06:35:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07588 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:35:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7BV6l9016356; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:31:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7BV1kG017610; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7BU4kG017441 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 700D31E1AA9; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:30:00 +0000 (GMT) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th Century Dress detail : pinking From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20021207113000.700D31E1AA9@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:30:00 GMT Status: RO > --- Cabbage Rose cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net> > wrote: > > > I cut fabric with pinkers and sometimes it still frays, particularly over > > time. N Kipar wrote : > Perhaps pinking works a lot like those zig-zag scissors (I don't know the > proper English term for them) where only the 'peaks' fray a bit. I know them as "pinking shears". Which implys that when you refer to "pinking", you're talking about something other than using these things? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 06:42:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07610 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:42:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Bg2l9016726; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Bg0kG019643; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from protactinium (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7BfZkG019546 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:41:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-87-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.87.182] helo=dan) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18KdKv-0002gU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 11:41:33 +0000 Message-ID: <004d01c29de6$24aaafc0$b65722d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:45:29 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, I have some very heavy, very pale grey cotton damask which I would very much like to lighten up to white. Can anyone suggest ways of doing so? best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 06:50:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07632 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:50:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Bn4l9016924; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:49:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Bn0kG020979; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7BltkG020807 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-87-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.87.182] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18KdR3-0000lT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 11:47:53 +0000 Message-ID: <005d01c29de7$07270880$b65722d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Regency House Party for Channel 4 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:51:50 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, If you have 3 months to spare next summer then you might care to spend them in the lap of period luxury... http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/R/regencyhouse/index2.html best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 06:51:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07637 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:51:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Bp3l9017236; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Bp1kG021425; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7Bo2kG021206 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 04:50:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207115001.1444.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 11:50:01 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <004d01c29de6$24aaafc0$b65722d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:50:01 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > Hi all, > I have some very heavy, very pale grey cotton damask which I would > very much like to lighten up to white. Can anyone suggest ways of > doing so? > best wishes > Stevie UK only tip: Stevie, I tried 'Ecover' for bleaching my 19th c. laces, and boy did that stuff bleach. You can definitely get it in Sainsbury's and it doesn't have any of the nasty stuff in it, no chlorine. Don't use a machine, but try to put it into a BIg pot, keep the heat up nice and as hot as possible (boiling?) and stir in the bleack. That should do the trick, it certainly didn't kill my laces, they are nice and white and on my mantua. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 07:06:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07673 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:06:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7C54l9017421; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7C51kG023877; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7C4dkG023805 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:04:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207120438.58235.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 12:04:38 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th Century Dress detail : pinking To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021207113000.700D31E1AA9@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:04:38 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > > > Perhaps pinking works a lot like those zig-zag scissors (I don't know the > > proper English term for them) where only the 'peaks' fray a bit. > > I know them as "pinking shears". Which implys that when you refer to > "pinking", you're talking about something other than using these things? Yes Jane, I though she meant those scallopy edges, the pretty ones, let me see if I have a piccie I can upload... Ha! Silly me, I do have some online on the Rococo bit on the Demon site (hours later trying to remember the URL...): http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/female_rococo.html The 1760s sack dress shows some pinking. Not the big fat lovely scallopy type, but for the life of me I can't find a pic of that on my comp and don't have time to scan. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 07:08:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07677 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:08:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7C85l9017703; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7C84kG024517; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:08:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7C72kG024269 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-87-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.87.182] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18KdjZ-0006uE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 12:07:01 +0000 Message-ID: <006e01c29de9$b326cb00$b65722d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20021207115001.1444.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:10:57 -0000 Status: RO Nicole said: > UK only tip: > Stevie, I tried 'Ecover' for bleaching my 19th c. laces, and boy did that stuff > bleach. You can definitely get it in Sainsbury's and it doesn't have any of the > nasty stuff in it, no chlorine. Don't use a machine, but try to put it into a > BIg pot, keep the heat up nice and as hot as possible (boiling?) and stir in > the bleack. That should do the trick, it certainly didn't kill my laces, they > are nice and white and on my mantua. Many thanks; I will brave the Islington Sainsbury's and buy some. Do I mix the bleach and water before bringing it to the boil, and then put the washed fabric in it? best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 07:21:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07710 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:21:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7CKCl9017927; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:20:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7CK3kG026776; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:20:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7CJUkG026608 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:19:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207121928.2182.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 12:19:28 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <006e01c29de9$b326cb00$b65722d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:19:28 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble > Many thanks; I will brave the Islington Sainsbury's and buy some. Do I > mix the bleach and water before bringing it to the boil, and then put > the washed fabric in it? Oh gosh, on a Saturday before Christmas *G* Why domn't you order it online? Anyway, yes, I did stir the bleach (hefty mexture: lots of bleach, I though if it doesn't kill it, it'll be fine) into the water and heated it up. The bleach comes in wee little pearls, so you wnat to make sure they are as dissolved as they can be. As an aside, I forgot to mention that I used an old jam cooking pot (one of those huge tinny ones) and the bleach ate into the bottom of the pot! Heating the bleach in that kind of metal seems to eat right through it. I don't think that would happen with a steel pot though. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 07:26:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07718 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:26:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7CPKl9018063; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:25:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7CNXkG027465; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:23:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7CMikG027319 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:22:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207122236.40544.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 12:22:36 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Moorish male costume: found piccies Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:22:36 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Okay, I deleted the original mail as usual after skimming through but suddenly remembered that there is a lovely site on Arabic costume out there. I love the site, though I don't know anything about period/plcae nor will ever do anything with it. Here's a page on 13th c. Andalusian costume for example: http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/andalus13c.html This is the index: http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/courtyard.html I don't know if she has what you are looking for for your other half, but she might give you further tips anyway. Nicole - who just has to save pretty much any costume related pic to her hardddrive. :-) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 07:34:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07730 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:34:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7CY4l9018362; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:34:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7CY1kG029559; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7CXTkG029430 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:33:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.2f.31304aaa (4206) for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:33:17 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <2f.31304aaa.2b23448d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th Century Dress detail To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_2f.31304aaa.2b23448d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:33:17 EST Status: RO --part1_2f.31304aaa.2b23448d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/6/2002 9:06:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes: > What kept the pinked edges neat? Better fabrics? A certain weave? > Something I'm missing? > > When you look closely, you can see that fraying has started. I think it is probably the fact that most of these silks were very crisp, perhaps retaining quite a bit of the original gum. Add to that the likelihood that the dresses in collections, by the very fact that they have survived, may not have had particularly heavy wear. This is just a guess, but I wonder, too, if using the pinking tool, might have caused less stress on the fabric than cutting with shears. Ann Wass --part1_2f.31304aaa.2b23448d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/6/2002 9:06:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes:


What kept the pinked edges neat?  Better fabrics? A certain weave?
Something I'm missing?



When you look closely, you can see that fraying has started.  I think it is probably the fact that most of these silks were very crisp, perhaps retaining quite a bit of the original gum.  Add to that the likelihood that the dresses in collections, by the very fact that they have survived, may not have had particularly heavy wear.  This is just a guess, but I wonder, too, if using the pinking tool, might have caused less stress on the fabric than cutting with shears.
Ann Wass --part1_2f.31304aaa.2b23448d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 07:57:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07811 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:57:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Cu5l9018932; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:56:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Cu2kG003811; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7CtJkG003658 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:55:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb0.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.176]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9442D480013 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:55:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001101c29df0$51061460$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <005e01c29c93$55ae0a30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <018e01c29d95$d004d220$f52eaf40@angelap3a8d978> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th Century Dress detail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:58:19 +0100 Status: RO Dear Angela. I will read through my book, danish one, i have about fashion in 18th century. It is my thoaght, that they did not do anything to the fabric, only the pinking tools, cut the fabric on bias most of the time, so that it will not fray. When i make a lot of ruched ribbon works on the dress, i zig zag all the edges very closely and then i turn over the zig zag as a seam and stitch by hand. I do the same thing for the sleave ruffles, you cant have a doubble seam on those, because then they wont fall propperly. Ill look what she writes about it today and post later. I have never done any pinking myself, i have made sleave ruffles cut like a pinking shape, but only cut with a sharp scissor.And then only made a very narrow seam with the zig zag turned round about 3-4 mm. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cabbage Rose" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 3:10 AM Subject: [h-cost] 18th Century Dress detail > Bjarne, since you popped up, perhaps you would know the answer to this > question. I just got my copy of "Fashion" from KCI and the pictures of > dresses from your period are STUNNING! Most of them have what appears to be > pinked ruching, or gathered self "ribbons" made of the dress fabric all up > and down the fronts of the dresses. The unfinished edges of the fabric that > has been pinked or otherwise cut are still nice and clean. How does that > work? > > I cut fabric with pinkers and sometimes it still frays, particularly over > time. I use fray check in theater, but obviously that did not exist back > then. What kept the pinked edges neat? Better fabrics? A certain weave? > Something I'm missing? > > Anyone with any knowledge may certainly pipe up. It's a marvelous book. > Thanks to the original poster for mentioning it was available. > > angela > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Cabbage Rose Costumes > http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > Theatrical Costume Design > > "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: > be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, > and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: > be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." > W. Shakespeare > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:20 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta > > > > Guess what? > > I got 15 meters of sky blue Silk Taffeta from London today!!! > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 08:05:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07849 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:05:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7D4fl9019163; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:04:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7D41kG005481; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7D3pkG005438 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:03:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb0.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.176]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 63D3F4801CA for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:03:49 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001a01c29df1$83537880$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <200212062147.gB6Llfg7010309@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:06:52 +0100 Status: RO I got it from James Hare Silks. Monarch House - Queen Street - Leeds LS1 1LX Not London, but Leeds. email: sales@jamesharesilks.co.uk www.JamesHareSilks.co.uk It is a fine quality taffeta, and the weave is very even. They also have a lot of other qualitys. Their Imperial Taffeta comes in 71 colours, yes you did read right, 71 colours:-) It was Ian The Staymaker who was so generous to send me his address. I could find taffeta here in Denmark two, but if it should be this quality, i am sure i had to pay almost doubble price. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 10:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta > where did you get your taffeta? I've been drooling over the sale > taffetas at Thai Silks -- they are only $11.20 US per yard right now. > > > > > > Guess what? > > I got 15 meters of sky blue Silk Taffeta from London today!!! > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 08:29:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07963 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:29:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7DS1l9019779; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:28:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7DRfkG010041; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:27:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7DNOkG009202 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:23:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-87-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.87.182] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18KevT-0005m5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 13:23:23 +0000 Message-ID: <007b01c29df4$5e08a0c0$b65722d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <200212062147.gB6Llfg7010309@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <001a01c29df1$83537880$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:27:19 -0000 Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > I got it from James Hare Silks. > Monarch House - Queen Street - Leeds LS1 1LX > Not London, but Leeds. > email: sales@jamesharesilks.co.uk > www.JamesHareSilks.co.uk > It is a fine quality taffeta, and the weave is very even. Can you tell us how much it cost? best wishes Stevie who acquired 15 meters of James Hare's handloomed dupioni in silver grey at the Liberty sale in the summer... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 08:35:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07999 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:35:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7DYTl9019919; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:34:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7DXbkG011104; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:33:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7DTZkG010367 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:29:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-58-250-237.s491.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.250.237] helo=rcn.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 18Kf1B-0002EH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:29:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3DF1F7AF.641CFE44@rcn.com> From: Catelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-RCN010799 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20021207091901.19610.51044.Mailman@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] My Costuming Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:29:19 -0500 Status: RO I'm a generalist in terms of fashion history. I started studying fashion, clothing, and their histories at 13, when I wanted to make my third doll be a fairy tale princess. I favor certain periods in my studies based on what's available, what event is coming up next, and random interest. I am in the SCA. I am going to my 15th anniversery event today; I started in the SCA at this event in 1987. I should be sewing or at least cutting out rather than writing here. Primarily, I am a merchant at Pennsic, who makes her own wares, which takes the vast majority of the rest of the year. I am switching my wardrobe over to linens and wools mostly in early 14th century cut as I can afford the materials & time. I also wish to make a Gothic fitted gown, of the early 15th century. Got the materials: linen for lining and wool for the main showing fabric, and even a fitting buddy. I dance 'vintage dance', so I need (more more) clothing in the 1840-1910's range. Penny, could you perhaps recommend a source for the Castle's "Whirl of Life"? My body is perfect for 1830's, with the fashion-figure sloping shoulders, small bosom, ribcage, and waist, sway back, and swelling hips. Ok, techincally, the skirts didn't show the size/shape of the hips, but I get an accurate look with the minimal requirements for petticoats, et al, rather than needing to pad up with period remedies for no butt. :-) Therefore, I should procure some English muslin, and make up something in the way of gigot sleeves with stacked knife pleats (I've seen three pleats stacked) with the same pleating style in the skirts and folds laid across the body. low priority. I have nowhere to wear such a style. There is actually a (re)created small town which is specifically examining rural New England life in the 1830's within an hour's drive. Old Sturbridge Village It's a museum of relocated houses, church, mill, tavern. The setting is rural, conservative, and later in the 1830's than the whole gigot sleeve style anyway. The Lowell (Massachusetts) mill girls started in the 1830's, too. Maybe someday. I adore the 1930's fashion, but am absolutely the wrong shape to make them for myself. Good thing I make dolls. The book on Madeleine Vionnet (My favorite designer), which book I just ordered from the Met, should arrive soon, and then I'll be trying out some of her techinques on a small scale. I've ordered this book four times from various vendors now, and the first three came back with an 'oops, we can't find this book.' While waiting for the ooops message the last time, I held a copy of the book in my hands, at the Met, at their exhibit: "Blithe Spirit: The Windsor Set A remarkable cache of gowns by Vionnet, Lanvin, Schiaparelli, Chanel, and other designers dating primarily from the 1930s. The Costume Institute, ground floor November 1, 2002-February 9, 2003 For more information about this event and other events and programs at the Metropolitan Museum, visit our Web site at http://www.metmuseum.org/calendar/index.asp?CurrentDate=11/1/2002 " Still, though, my priority is the dolls. I'll work on my wish list of clothes for myself, just as soon as I finish this brief list of planned and wished dolls (unrolls down & across the floor, and down the stairs & . . . .) Ann in CT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 09:06:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08107 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:06:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7E5Nl9020848; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:05:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7E59kG016925; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:05:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7E4WkG016786 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:04:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.112] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AA5BA54E014C; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:40:43 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c29df7$54d4a460$705183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <004c01c29d99$86cf87e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> <00b301c29dc4$8f541b80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Designers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01C29DCD.6B246900" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:48:31 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C29DCD.6B246900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Penny, Thankyou for the thoughtful comments about fashion designers; you = experiences seem to flow along with mine. I have been interested in the = designs of the twenties since I was a child and have followed the = various revivals with great...and sometimes amused interest. I = discovered ERTE about 20 years ago and find his flights of fancy to be = great fun,especially when he interprets other periods of costume history = for the theatre. But I especially like the Greek and Roman 'quotes' one = discovers in his sports clothes. = May I ask if there is any particular = designer or resource you are having trouble with re your 1920-1923 = project? I will have time in Jan to go through periodicals and such in = my library for those years and can pass on relevant material to you. = Neat project, I think! Kathleen =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Penny Ladnier=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 2:45 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Designers Kathleen, One of my big areas of weakness is in fashion designers. My 20th = costume history was in 1976. We followed the popular designers of the = day, but not the past ones. We studied silhouettes and name of articles = of a costume. Being on two email lists, vintage and sewretro, sparked = my interest about past designers. They kept talking about this = designers and that I had no idea who they were talking about. I was = thrilled to get the Hudson and Thames, Dictionary of Fashion Designers = and Fashion and could look the designer up when someone mentioned them. = This book has become my fashion bible. It doesn't cover every designer, = but does carry the most popular ones.=20 =20 I have always been partial to Dior as one of my favorites. But right = now I am doing some heavy research into the designer from 1920-1925. I = have tons of illustrations from about 30 Parisian designers during this = time. I am working on writing bios for them. I am really having a = tough time finding bio information about some of the designers. I am = compiling all of this information to make an e-book. The way I will be = presenting each designer is to have a bio page and then have thumbnails = in sequence of time of their designs from 1920-1923. So the reader will = see how their designs evolved. It is a small time frame, but a lot = happened in the evolution of dress during these four years. What I am really fascinated while compiling this information is the = later designers who started out with the 1920s designers. I am also = interested in how the '20s designers got their start in the fashion = business. Its almost like making a family tree of designers. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com=20 http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C29DCD.6B246900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Penny, Thankyou for the thoughtful comments about = fashion=20 designers; you experiences seem to flow along with mine. I have been = interested=20 in the designs of the twenties since I was a child and have followed the = various=20 revivals with great...and sometimes amused interest. I discovered ERTE = about 20=20 years ago and find his flights of fancy to be great fun,especially when = he=20 interprets other periods of costume history for the theatre. But I = especially=20 like the Greek and Roman 'quotes' one discovers in his sports=20 clothes.           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             May I ask if = there is=20 any particular designer or resource you are having trouble with re your=20 1920-1923 project?  I will have time in Jan to go through = periodicals and=20 such in my library for those years and can pass on relevant material to=20 you.  Neat project, I think!    = Kathleen   =20             =    =20            
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Penny=20 Ladnier
Sent: Saturday, December 07, = 2002 2:45=20 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite=20 Designers

Kathleen,
 
One of my big areas of weakness is in fashion = designers. =20 My 20th costume history was in 1976.  We followed the = popular=20 designers of the day, but not the past ones.  We studied = silhouettes and=20 name of articles of a costume.  Being on two email lists, vintage = and=20 sewretro, sparked my interest about past designers.  They = kept=20 talking about this designers and that I had no idea who they were = talking=20 about.  I was thrilled to get the Hudson and Thames, Dictionary = of=20 Fashion Designers and Fashion and could look the designer up when = someone=20 mentioned them.  This book has become my fashion bible.  It = doesn't=20 cover every designer, but does carry the most popular = ones. 
    
I have always been partial to Dior as one of my favorites.  = But=20 right now I am doing some heavy research into the designer from=20 1920-1925.  I have tons of illustrations from about 30 = Parisian=20 designers during this time.  I am working on writing bios = for=20 them.  I am really having a tough time finding bio information = about some=20 of the designers.  I am compiling all of this information to make = an=20 e-book.  The way I will be presenting each designer is to have a = bio page=20 and then have thumbnails in sequence of time of their designs from=20 1920-1923.  So the reader will see how their designs = evolved.  It is=20 a small time frame, but a lot happened in the evolution of dress = during these=20 four years.
 
What I am really fascinated while compiling this = information is=20 the later designers who started out with the 1920s = designers.  I am=20 also interested in how the '20s designers got their start in the = fashion=20 business.  Its almost like making a family tree of = designers.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
 
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C29DCD.6B246900-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 09:35:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08204 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:35:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7EYOl9021564; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:34:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7EYMkG022430; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:34:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7EWNkG022019 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.37.316f9ff0 (3964) for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:31:32 -0500 (EST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Message-ID: <37.316f9ff0.2b236043@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_37.316f9ff0.2b236043_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Subject: [h-cost] pinking Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:31:31 EST Status: RO --part1_37.316f9ff0.2b236043_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Costume Close Up," among other books, mentions the use of pinking tools used for 18th century pinking. These were kind of like chisels with a sharp scalloped design at one end, that were struck with a mallet to cut the scallop into the fabric. Aparently the tightness of the weave combined with the pressure of striking the cut prevented it from unravelling too much. I must admit that I've tried this using a repro 18th C pinking tool and either the tool wasn't well made/sharp enough or by fabric wasnt quite right for it but I was not happy with the results. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com --part1_37.316f9ff0.2b236043_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
"Costume Close Up," among other books, mentions the use of pinking tools used for 18th century pinking.  These were kind of like chisels with a sharp scalloped design at one end, that were struck with a mallet to cut the scallop into the fabric.  Aparently the tightness of the weave combined with the pressure of striking the cut  prevented it from unravelling too much. 

I must admit that I've tried this using a repro 18th C pinking tool and either the tool wasn't well made/sharp enough or by fabric wasnt quite right for it but I was not happy with the results.

Cheers,

Loren Dearborn
marionetta@aol.com --part1_37.316f9ff0.2b236043_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 10:17:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08352 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:17:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FG2l9022849; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FG0kG000625; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FBOkG029444 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:11:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m246.in-tch.com [216.166.191.246]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB7EtKD29747 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:55:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DF20FAE.3BEB72CD@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questions abook studies. References: <3DF0BDEE.BE661081@inetone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:11:42 -0700 Status: RO Hi.... I'm pretty much self-taught, which I guess means I get to make LOADS of weird mistakes. I learned how to do differently-shaped sleeves (such as the ones you describe) by playing with scrap fabric and following the diagrams in a very interesting article in an SCA publication (one of the _Creative Anachronists_ on costuming had it, as a reprint from an earlier publication, _Seams Like Old Times_). The idea is to take your basic sleeve-pattern (drawn on the scrap fabric--I used old tent canvas left over from my job at the time), and then you cut into the pattern where you want the shape changed, and spread it until it forms the desired shape. Kinda like you're doing the reverse of putting in darts. --sue Dhannti wrote: > > I know I have asked a lot of questions before so add this to my > curiosity. Is there a list of recommanded reading for different periods > of clothing styles and construction? I presently own a number of books > but I feel like I am missing something. In creating a gown from a > pattern, whether its one of the big three or much to my delight Margo > Anderson's pattern, I seem to be lacking a common knowledge about the > construction. Hard to explain this feeling of failing to achieve a > certain look due to my skimpy sewing skills. I see wonderful paned > sleeves on gowns that have a fullness that I can't recreate. I have > searched my books and on line but no help. I would like to have that > fullness on the upper half of the sleeves while the lower half is > narrow. How did they do that? I guess I am looking for tricks of the > trade. If there is a book or some place to find this info could someone > point me in the right direction? > > Thanks in advance > Diana > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 10:17:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08357 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:17:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FGIl9022883; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:16:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FGHkG000718; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:16:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7F1JkG027672 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:01:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id HAA00862 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:23:13 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200212071523.HAA00862@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:23:13 -0800 (PST) Status: RO "Stevie Gamble" > Hi all, > I have some very heavy, very pale grey cotton damask which I would > very much like to lighten up to white. Can anyone suggest ways of > doing so? Dye remover. Thiourea oxide. It's less damaging to the fabric than bleach. It says not to use it with aluminum pots, but I've done it anyway (it was the only pot I had that was large enough for the silk dress). Since you're starting with a pale color, you shouldn't have to worry about dumping the dye bath partway through to keep the dye from re-depositing. http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1535-AA.shtml Another very cool technique is discharge paste. You can paint, stamp or stencil it on to selectively remove color from a fabric. http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1574-AA.shtml [not associated with Dharma Trading Co. I just happen to live in the same area, so I order from them when I'm in a hurry.] Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 10:20:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08375 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:20:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FK1l9023058; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FK0kG001775; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7FJwkG001713 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:19:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207151957.4196.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:19:57 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Reproduction pinker photo, was Re: [h-cost] pinking To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <37.316f9ff0.2b236043@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:19:57 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Marionetta@aol.com wrote: > > "Costume Close Up," among other books, mentions the use of pinking tools used > > for 18th century pinking. These were kind of like chisels with a sharp > scalloped design at one end, that were struck with a mallet to cut the > scallop into the fabric. Aparently the tightness of the weave combined with > the pressure of striking the cut prevented it from unravelling too much. I knew I had the photo somewhere on my comp, and while I don't remember where it came from and can't give credit to who made the tools nor who took the photo, here's a pic of pinking tools: http://www.kipar.org/h-costume/Pinker.jpg Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 10:31:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08414 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:31:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FTtlf023411; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:30:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7EBVkG017874; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:12:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40902.mail.yahoo.com (web40902.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7E5BkG016908 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:05:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207135823.8728.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.197.48.98] by web40902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 05:58:23 PST From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021207054300.1253.73978.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:58:23 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Lest anyone think _I_ think the hierarchy is sinister, I definitely don't! :^) I do think though, Heather, that you've hit the point for me -- I didn't realize when I first started posting here that assertions went hand in hand with documentatary proof. I was used to SCA-related lists, which often don't hold its members to such standards, as the organization umbrellas all levels of costuming/clothesmaking. There are questions that come up here from time to time that I'm sure I can add to, but choose not to because I don't have the time or access to double-check my sources. I am a grazer of knowledge most of the time, and have trouble remembering details of sources off the top of my head if it's a topic I'm not currently buried in. Unless I'm at home next to my books with time on my hands, I usually let such opportunities go, because I know it's a 'put up or shut up' scenario. For the record, though, I can appreciate the rigor of such an approach, and I'd rather be held to that standard than the opposite. Though it was jarring at first (because I didn't expect it), I've since settled down and accepted it. This discussion has been fruitful. Tasha _______________________________________________ At 10:40 AM -0800 12/6/02, Tasha McGann wrote: >In general, though, I don't provide information here >anymore unless I'm 100% air-tight sure about it, >because it WILL be challenged. That may be because >there's an unspoken hierarchy on this list -- some >folks aren't proven, and thus are challenged. Others >are known, and are sacrosanct (sometimes). Just a >thought. (Please don't shoot me.) I think there's plenty of room for posting things that one isn't 100% air-tight sure about -- I think it's just a matter of distinguishing the different types of information clearly. People might get riled up if one posted, "Peasants in Lower Slobovia wore socks on their heads" whereas a posting along the lines of , "I've seen some illustrations of peasants in Lower Slobovia with something on their heads that looks remarkably similar to a sock" might provoke an enthusiastic thread about hat construction and Slobovian footwear styles. My experience -- on this as well as other lists -- is that you aren't entirely off-base on the "unspoken hierarchy" observation, but I don't see it as a sinister plot. :) If person X has a history of providing verifiable support and well-reasoned arguments for their statements and conclusions, then they're likely to be cut more slack if they pop off a random comment without supplying the full support and arguments (although a person of this sort is also generally happy to supply them when time allows if asked), and similarly, person X is likely to be given a bit more credence if they come up with an unusual theory or explanation if they have a past history of demonstrating well-constructed and solidly-based theories. If said person X trades on this tendency too heavily, they're likely to lose that status, so it's a fairly self-regulating system. If they stop putting out, they stop being cut the slack. (I tend to be aware of this dynamic because there are a number of subjects, on various lists, where I get cut far more slack than _I_ think I ought to be, and I try to be very careful about _not_ getting lazy about supplying the backup information and reasoning.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 10:31:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08416 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:31:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FTtlj023411; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7EsDkG026319; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:54:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7EpVkG025700 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:51:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m246.in-tch.com [216.166.191.246]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB7EZHD23792 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:35:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DF20AF7.8CE407E9@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question. References: <05e601c29da9$988a27a0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 07:51:35 -0700 Status: RO Hi, Maral. I remember your question from the first time you posted, but didn't have anything that could help you, since I'm pretty ignorant of Moorish cultures. It occurs to me, though, that I've seen some stuff on Andalusian Spain, which had a good mix of Christian and Muslim cultural influences. I could dig that up, if you like? --Sue "not a lurker" Clemenger....;-) Herself-the-Elf wrote: > > I tried posting this earlier, but I'm not sure it got to the list. Here > goes... > > Well now that I've pretty much solved my wedding dress problem, I'm > wondering about > my guy. I don't think he's likely to want to wear a houppelande or some > such, and definitely not the silly shoes. So I'm trying to think of > something different that would still be period (late 14th to early 15th c). > He's got dark skin, so I was thinking maybe a nifty Moorish costume of some > sort. Does anybody have any information on Moorish (or any > middle-eastern/North African) costume of this era? I haven't been able to > find much detailed info online... > > -- Maral > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 10:31:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08422 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:31:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FTtlh023411; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:30:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7F9dkG029122; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:10:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7F7QkG028735 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:07:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207150027.79319.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:00:27 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] how many of us are there? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:00:27 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Janet Davis wrote: > > This list, with this many members, generates more mail than any other list I > am on. If there were more members, I'd be so busy reading, I'd never get > anything done. On the other hand, it would be nice to hear from some other > voices besides those who post all the time. I fully agree with the above sentiment, but please don't forget that it is a two-way-street. It is not the fault of the always-posters that they are the ones posting all the time. Neither is it that of the no-posters, it just is a doubled edged sword. It's lovely to hear from others now, it is most enjoyable. Emotion/sensitivity-alert: Anyway, there is one thing I have to say because it REALLY upsets me and I can't stop thinking about it/being upset and I just have to get it off my chest. While I deleted the mail that said it, as I do with most other than those I archive and self-forward, I was really very upset by the mail statin g things about 'someone who shall not be named' and then continuing in the line of being quite rude/nasty (don't hang, draw and quarter me if I don't find the right word in English) about not liking one particular person. Please please please do not do such a thing on a list, it is MOST upsetting to some, at least to me. I can't stop thinking about that and its principle, because I think it is so mean of describing someone without saying the name and saying nasty things about that person. Really, please don't do that. Mail the person and discuss your problems with that person if the person is so inclined as to answer, but please don't do what you did, and even if I am the only person upset by that, I still plead a 'please don't do that'. Okay, alert over and I shall not mention it ever again. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 10:31:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08426 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:31:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FTtll023411; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7EQFkG020784; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:26:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7EP5kG020495 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:25:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25439 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2002 14:23:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bookbusiness) (208.166.66.143) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 14:23:07 -0000 From: "Janet Davis" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] how many of us are there? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29DD2.40B1EAD0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-reply-to: <3DF0EA3F.5B33648C@lavoltapress.com> Importance: Normal X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:23:07 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29DD2.40B1EAD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >But as long as h-costume is an active list and people _are_ actively posting messages--does it matter if some people gravitate to other, more specialized lists? This list, with this many members, generates more mail than any other list I am on. If there were more members, I'd be so busy reading, I'd never get anything done. On the other hand, it would be nice to hear from some other voices besides those who post all the time. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http:/www.medievalbookstore.com ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29DD2.40B1EAD0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IgcOAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANIHDAAHAAkADQAAAAYACAEB A5AGAOQGAAAnAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAA AAAAHgBwAAEAAAAjAAAAW2gtY29zdF0gaG93IG1hbnkgb2YgdXMgYXJlIHRoZXJlPwAAAgFxAAEA AAAWAAAAAcKd+s9g8WiFFDoHReuWb+uE6sOmzAAAAgEdDAEAAAAVAAAAU01UUDpDQVNUTEVARVJJ RS5ORVQAAAAACwABDgAAAABAAAYOAL5/v/qdwgECAQoOAQAAABgAAAAAAAAAwIqqXhYriUaQjGhv nLPl0cKAAAALAB8OAQAAAAIBCRABAAAAOwIAADcCAAD8AgAATFpGdWFCekUDAAoAcmNwZzEyNfIy APszNgHoAqQD5AcTTwKDAFADVAIAY2gKwHPgZXQwIEMHQAaQBbBTAwADkUZCAoB9CoF2SQiQd2sL gGQ0DGBjFwBQCwMLYG4OEDAzM0cLpwqxCoA+QnUFQGFPBCAJABUQFpJoLQWgc/R0dQeAIAQAFpAD oADQeHRpdhfQEqAXkBgRZLAgcGVvC1AX0F8KwORlXxhFbHkZQBeBC4AjFwAHgXNhZweQLS30ZG8H kWkFQADAAkAEkPEX4GYgcwNwF9AZVQnADmETwAGQHIAgdG8g6G90aASQLBsgBbAX0MpzGVBjBzFp egmAGLM8cz8V9CBlEUIL8DIg/FRoF/EYwh7QA/AekB5AvyHCA4EakAeABtAEkHMe0P0bgG4EkB4R IuEfAgDAAxFfHpAYIiMhHoMYtEkWkG3xHnBuLiAmUBzQHpIX0M53J1IkhCNmSScZMCOAMxzhKPB1 cxqQCXBhZH8a8SikJAAYkAXAG4AY8nnfIrEW8RvQJAAm0U8DoB6RWyWlJTFkHtAcIXcIYGz7KOMD AGMeMx6gCsEDUhzk+SW0dm8uIQQgI4AAkAEAfwQgHpAXgCdxMOAaoxaQbNclAh4xB3EuIGpKAHAS QJcgxhXHArEgM1MgRB3RfnML0hRAM7gScReQGZFGewhwAwBzK2I1nxdAAkBw6DovdzlALgeAKeAq kLMHQAbgb2sXkB8BLgWgXyaQN9shQxXlE4EAPLAAHgBCEAEAAAAlAAAAPDNERjBFQTNGLjVCMzM2 NDhDQGxhdm9sdGFwcmVzcy5jb20+AAAAAAsAAYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAA AwAigAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAACdqAQALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAO hQAAAAAAAAMAMYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADADOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4ASoAIIAYAAAAA AMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADkuMAAeAEuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAA AQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBMgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4ATYAI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAALAE6ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AACChQAAAQAAAAsAdYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAaFAAAAAAAAAwB2gAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAACAfgPAQAAABAAAADAiqpeFiuJRpCMaG+cs+XRAgH6DwEAAAAQAAAA wIqqXhYriUaQjGhvnLPl0QIB+w8BAAAAlwAAAAAAAAA4obsQBeUQGqG7CAArKlbCAABQU1RQUlgu RExMAAAAAAAAAABOSVRB+b+4AQCqADfZbgAAAEM6XERvY3VtZW50cyBhbmQgU2V0dGluZ3NcSmFu ZXRcTG9jYWwgU2V0dGluZ3NcQXBwbGljYXRpb24gRGF0YVxNaWNyb3NvZnRcT3V0bG9va1xvdXRs b29rLnBzdAAAAwD+DwUAAAADAA00/TcAAAIBfwABAAAALwAAADxJSkVHSkFJTUtJT0ZER09OUERQ S0lFRkRDQkFBLmNhc3RsZUBlcmllLm5ldD4AAAMABhCH2KPlAwAHEJYBAAADABAQAQAAAAMAERAA AAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAQlVUQVNMT05HQVNILUNPU1RVTUVJU0FOQUNUSVZFTElTVEFORFBFT1BM RUFSRUFDVElWRUxZUE9TVElOR01FU1NBR0VTLS1ET0VTSVRNQVRURVJJRlNPTUVQRU9QTEVHUkFW SQAAAAAlkQ== ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29DD2.40B1EAD0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 10:37:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08442 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:37:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Fb3l9023661; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Fb2kG006485; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7FaAkG006296 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:36:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207153610.63484.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:36:10 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200212071523.HAA00862@gw.retro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:36:10 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > Dye remover. Thiourea oxide. It's less damaging to the fabric than > bleach. It says not to use it with aluminum pots, but I've done it > anyway (it was the only pot I had that was large enough for the silk > dress). Since you're starting with a pale color, you shouldn't have > to worry about dumping the dye bath partway through to keep the dye > from re-depositing. > http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1535-AA.shtml Oh wow, Lee, that looks JUST like what I would need for a lace of mine, thanks for sharing this. I just fear that shipping from the US might be a tad expensive. :-( Still, I think I'll order some in the new year. What kind of fibres have you bleached/undyed with that stuff apart from silk? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 10:42:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08471 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:42:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Fg1l9023769; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Fg0kG007669; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FfBkG007470 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:41:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id IAA00985 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:03:07 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200212071603.IAA00985@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Delurking . . . with a Roman Question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:03:07 -0800 (PST) Status: RO "Linda Walton" [...] > Please, how do I dress as a fairly wealthy Roman lady of the time of Cicero > ? > > It is for a party with my Latin class on 17th December, so I would like it > to be as authentic as I can manage, and - especially - I would like to be > able to answer questions about it. So where my clothing isn't very > accurate, I would like to be able to explain about it. I can't find the set of links I _really_ want, but this might be a start: http://www.uky.edu/ArtsSciences/Classics/jlsgloss.html It's a glossary of roman clothing terms http://www.realm-of-shade.com/RomanaeAntiquae/adornments.html What the Roman Lady Wears http://www.uky.edu/AS/Classics/slides/selectshow.html Slide show of reproductions http://www.villaivlilla.com/vestis.htm examples from art http://www.unc.edu/courses/rometech/public/content/survival/clothing.html Ancient Roman Clothing http://www.geocities.com/sallypointer/makeover/ The Roman Makeover (a very cool page) Finally found it! http://www.dl.ket.org/latin1/things/romanlife/ Has instructions for making stola, dress, tunica, and tunic. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 10:45:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08486 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:45:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Fi2l9023840; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Fi0kG008139; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FhpkG008102 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:43:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id IAA00998 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:05:46 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200212071605.IAA00998@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:05:46 -0800 (PST) Status: RO [re: thiourea oxide] >What kind of fibres have you bleached/undyed with that stuff apart from silk? Cotton and silks. I'm fairly sure that Dylon also markets this type of color remover. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 10:45:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08491 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:45:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Fj1l9023880; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Fj1kG008402; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FiqkG008347 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:44:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Kh8O-00045B-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 07:44:52 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Questions abook studies. Message-ID: <000001c29e07$9c384bd0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20021206102107.L71541-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:45:03 -0700 Status: RO Maybe the rest of us are better at it than I at predicting how a pattern will look executed in a particular fabric with a particular lining, interlining etc, but when I want a particular look, or am attempting something new, I do a mockup in similar materials. It takes some fiddling-but that chanllenge is what makes the process fun and interesting. Also when drafting or draping a pattern I sometimes have to do it 4-6 times to get the look I want (for instance the dang goller I am currently working on.) Once in a while I get lucky and only have to do it once or twice. Also, in addition to pattern drafting or draping classes, take a tailoring class. If you look at extant garments (in pictures, I have never had the opportunity to handle anything older than the 19th century) you can see all the fabric manipulation techniques like pad stitching etc. These can greatly affect the way the garment lies or holds it shape. The Vogue Sewing book has great explanations on these techniques. You can find used copies of it all over the place. Making the garments of the past is different than those of the present, but many of the techniques are applicable. Nobody will be able to take a commercial pattern without fitting and altering and have it look great. These are all learnable techniques. I bet if you look around your area you will find someone who knows more than you and is willing to share their knowledge. Someday 'return' that favor by passing on your knowledge. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 11:01:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08571 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:01:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7G03l9024470; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7G01kG012501; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7FxAkG012291 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:59:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18KhMA-00029e-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 07:59:06 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor question Message-ID: <000001c29e09$99aa8a20$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C29DCE.ED4BB220" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20021206095533.X71541-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:59:15 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C29DCE.ED4BB220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.saragrace.net/2A_Cost_by_sg.htm It probably isn't really easy to see, but the pleats on this dress are organ pipe pleats without the taping done on the inside. Each pleat is sewn on by hand. I think Julie Adam's handout is the only one I've seen on the subject. Even then, it is very helpful to have someone show you how to do it. Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Drea Leed >Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 8:16 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question > >I'm curious--the pleats in the back of Holbein's lady and the breughel >painting are obviously very deep and pronounced, but I myself have been >unable to determine the specific pleating method used. I've managed to >create similar wide, very rounded pleats by stuffing and then >box-pleating. Though I have had to hand-sew the finished skirt top to >the finished bodice bottom like one does with cartridge pleats, as the >stuffed pleats were way too thick to sew through. Are you defining >cartridge-pleats as pleats that are sewn with multiple threads and then >gathered up, or as any pleats that aren't "folded under", like knife or >box pleats? > >Looking at Holbein's woman (pic at >http://costume.dm.net/gallery/images/bwlady-big.gif), I would recreate >that look with a skirt lined with a layer of batting. Ditto for breughel >(one pic at >http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/images/dance.jpg) > > >Smaller cartridge pleats show up in Italian dresses of the time (example >at http://www.marquise.de/en/1500/pics/1540_1.shtml). > >I'd love to see that english dress. I think I may have--is she wearing a >Queen-mary-type flattened hood, and is the dress a really stylized >long-fronted red velvet deal? Are the pleats smaller? > >Thanks, > >Drea > > > >> Cartridge pleats were used, as were knife pleats. They seem to have >> been used together at times. I don't have a URL but in the Holbein >> drawing of a lady (where he's done a front *and* a back view), there >> are obvious large cartridge pleats in the back. Some of the Breugel >> paintings also show this. There's another picture of a English court >> lady in a red dress with navy blue brocade undersleeves which shows >> the cartridge pleats at the side. However, it appears that she has >> some flat pleats to transition the front part to the back cartridge >> pleats (like 2 on each side). Unfortunately, the book which has the >> best picture of this is hiding/lost right now. >> >> Kat Russell >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C29DCE.ED4BB220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://www.saragrace.= net/2A_Cost_by_sg.htm

 

It probably isn’t really easy to see, but the pleats on this dress = are organ pipe pleats without the taping done on the inside.  Each pleat is sewn on by = hand.  I think Julie Adam’s = handout is the only one I’ve seen on the subject.  Even then, it is very helpful = to have someone show you how to do it.

 

Sg

 

 

>-----Original Message-----

>From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] = On

>Behalf Of Drea Leed

>Sent: Friday, = December 06, 2002 8:16 = AM

>To: h-costume@indra.com

>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question

>

>I'm curious--the pleats in the back of Holbein's lady and the = breughel

>painting are obviously very deep and pronounced, but I myself have = been

>unable to determine the specific pleating method used.  I've managed = to

>create similar wide, very rounded pleats by stuffing and then

>box-pleating.  Though I have had to hand-sew = the finished skirt top to

>the finished bodice bottom like one does with cartridge pleats, as = the

>stuffed pleats were way too thick to sew through. Are you = defining

>cartridge-pleats as pleats that are sewn with multiple threads and then

>gathered up, or as any pleats that aren't "folded under", like knife = or

>box pleats?

>

>Looking at Holbein's woman (pic at

>http://costume.dm.net/gallery/images/bwlad= y-big.gif), I would recreate

>that look with a skirt lined with a layer of batting.  Ditto for = breughel

>(one pic at

>http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/res= earch/images/dance.jpg)

>

>

>Smaller cartridge pleats show up in Italian dresses of the time = (example

>at http://www.marquise.de/en/1500/pics/1540_1.shtml).

>

>I'd love to see that english dress.  = I think I may have--is she wearing a

>Queen-mary-type flattened hood, and is the dress a really stylized

>long-fronted red velvet deal? Are the pleats smaller?

>

>Thanks,

>

>Drea

>

> >

>> Cartridge pleats were used, as were knife pleats. They seem to = have

>> been used together at times. I don't have a URL but in the = Holbein

>> drawing of a lady (where he's done a front *and* a back view),  there

>> are obvious large cartridge pleats in the back. Some of the = Breugel

>> paintings also show this. There's another picture of a English = court

>> lady in a red dress with navy blue brocade undersleeves which = shows

>> the cartridge pleats at the side. However, it appears that she = has

>> some flat pleats to transition the front part to the back = cartridge

>> pleats (like 2 on each side). Unfortunately, the book which has = the

>> best picture of this is hiding/lost right now.

>>

>> Kat Russell

>> <kat@grendal.rain.com>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> h-costume mailing list

>> h-costume@mail.indra.com

>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

>>

>

>__________________________________________= _____

>h-costume mailing list

>h-costume@mail.indra.com

=

>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-c= ostume

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C29DCE.ED4BB220-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 11:08:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08596 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:08:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7G72l9024785; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7G70kG014272; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7G64kG014076 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:06:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207160604.10608.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 16:06:04 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200212071605.IAA00998@gw.retro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:06:04 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > [re: thiourea oxide] > >What kind of fibres have you bleached/undyed with that stuff apart from > silk? > > Cotton and silks. > I'm fairly sure that Dylon also markets this type of color remover. Nope, I tried it and didn't work. Ecover bleach was actually better than the Dylon stuff. Perhaps the Dharma trading one would work on the cotton lace that I have. Thanks again Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 11:17:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08637 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:17:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GG4l9025460; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:16:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GG2kG016561; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from protactinium (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GFTkG016384 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-87-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.87.182] helo=dan) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Khc0-0000hT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 16:15:28 +0000 Message-ID: <00a301c29e0c$67b1d8e0$b65722d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:19:23 -0000 Status: RO Lee wrote, in a post I haven't seen yet so I'm piggybacking with Nicole, > Dye remover. Thiourea oxide. It's less damaging to the fabric than > bleach. It says not to use it with aluminum pots, but I've done it > anyway (it was the only pot I had that was large enough for the silk > dress). Since you're starting with a pale color, you shouldn't have > to worry about dumping the dye bath partway through to keep the dye > from re-depositing. > http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1535-AA.shtml Thanks, but sadly, Dharma doesn't ship to the UK nowadays. There are all sorts of useful things which they sell which I would love to get my hands on:-( I did try a google on the chemical name, with no luck, so I seem to be stuck with ecover bleach. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 11:25:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08690 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:25:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GP2l9025709; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GP1kG018687; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GOdkG018573 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:24:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-87-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.87.182] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Khks-0007AG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 16:24:38 +0000 Message-ID: <00ab01c29e0d$afa9cee0$b65722d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Coifs and me Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:28:33 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, I thought I'd combine a couple of recent threads by trying out a coif. Never again; I nearly had a heart attack when I looked in the mirror, so Heaven know's what it would do to an innocent bystander. Are there any particular items of costume -as opposed to entire ensembles- which people think are hideously unflattering on them, or indeed others? best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 11:28:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08718 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:28:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GS1l9025825; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GS0kG019455; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7GRUkG019332 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:27:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207162729.12454.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 16:27:29 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00a301c29e0c$67b1d8e0$b65722d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:27:29 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > Lee wrote, in a post I haven't seen yet so I'm piggybacking with > Nicole, > Thanks, but sadly, Dharma doesn't ship to the UK nowadays. There are > all sorts of useful things which they sell which I would love to get > my hands on:-( ACK!!!! So much for my idea of ordering something then. How anti-global is that, not to send anywhere in the world in this day and age of the internet. *sniff* I might be able to ask my reenactor/costume friend in the US to send some over. If I do that, would you like some too, Stevie? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 11:29:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08725 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:29:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GT3l9025875; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GT2kG019713; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from m8.bos.untd.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7GSdkG019589 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Ovr5DsDBbzYZjR+DBuWKss8="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKFK9TMH; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 11:28:07 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Cley@juno.com Message-ID: <20021207.082935.-211469.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Subject: [h-cost] Giraffe hunt Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:28:41 +0000 Status: RO Might anyone know offhand if Hedgehog carries giraffes? Or perhaps another company? I am looking for one that can hold embroidery hoops ranging from 3" on up. Any website suggestions? Or another alternative? Basically I am trying to eliminate stress from my hoop-holding hand owing to acute arthritis and need a stand that can hold one. Thank you for your help. Arlys in Oregon ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 11:36:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08760 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:36:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GZ3l9026189; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GZ1kG021120; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GYJkG020973 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:34:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fab.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.171]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9AAEB262BE1 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 17:34:17 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000901c29e0e$ece1ffc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <200212062147.gB6Llfg7010309@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <001a01c29df1$83537880$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <007b01c29df4$5e08a0c0$b65722d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 17:37:25 +0100 Status: RO Hello Imperial Silk Taffeta is 140 cm wide, it comes in 71 colours and costs 28.80 pounds a meter. If i should buy this quality here in Copenhagen, it would cost me about 400 kr. a meter, so i have saved some money, even it costs to have it sent. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta > Bjarne wrote: > > > I got it from James Hare Silks. > > Monarch House - Queen Street - Leeds LS1 1LX > > Not London, but Leeds. > > email: sales@jamesharesilks.co.uk > > www.JamesHareSilks.co.uk > > It is a fine quality taffeta, and the weave is very even. > > Can you tell us how much it cost? > > best wishes > Stevie > who acquired 15 meters of James Hare's handloomed dupioni in silver > grey at the Liberty sale in the summer... > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 11:36:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08764 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:36:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GZGl9026214; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GZFkG021180; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:35:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail8.kc.rr.com (mail8.kc.rr.com [24.94.162.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GYSkG021012 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:34:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis ([65.26.140.179]) by mail8.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:32:55 -0600 From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Coifs and me Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 In-Reply-To: <00ab01c29e0d$afa9cee0$b65722d9@dan> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:38:30 -0600 Status: RO Square necklines for me... T -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Stevie Gamble Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:29 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Coifs and me Hi all, I thought I'd combine a couple of recent threads by trying out a coif. Never again; I nearly had a heart attack when I looked in the mirror, so Heaven know's what it would do to an innocent bystander. Are there any particular items of costume -as opposed to entire ensembles- which people think are hideously unflattering on them, or indeed others? best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 11:47:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08838 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:47:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Gj3l9026952; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Gj1kG023711; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GiJkG023491 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:44:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H6R00GE3D1U47@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 11:41:54 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DF224BF.9080808@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fox Tails Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 10:41:35 -0600 Status: RO hmmmm, wonder if this is wear the swaying "Foxy Lady" came from :D -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 11:55:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08915 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:55:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Gt2l9027562; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Gt1kG026453; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7GsekG026330 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:54:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25881 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:03:25 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fox Tails In-Reply-To: <3DF224BF.9080808@comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:03:25 -0600 (CST) Status: RO Darn, I deleted the original post. (Been under heavy deadlines, not much time for responding.) Thanks, Linda, for reminding me that this was mentioned, as I wanted to follow up. Working from memory... I've always wondered about this reference. As posted (and I've seen quoted in various references), the original statement seems to be referring to a desire to *hide* the shape of the rear under a tight gown. That makes me wonder if some women wore a single tail vertically to cover the, um, obvious indentation, or even if this is just a reference to fur linings. But a lot of secondary sources seem to point to this quote as evidence of a desire to *pad* the bottom, which would imply emphasizing its shape as a "bumroll" or a farthingale would do. I wouldn't associate "hiding" as being an early attempt to do what a farthingale does. I'm hesitant to draw a direct connection between what's described in the quote to the padding of 200 years later, when the desired silhouette is very different. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 11:59:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08936 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:59:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Gm2l9027136; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Gm1kG024443; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Gl3kG024217 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:47:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-87-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.87.182] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Ki6Y-00012H-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 16:47:02 +0000 Message-ID: <00be01c29e10$d0815f40$b65722d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20021207162729.12454.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Good dye suppliers was Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:50:57 -0000 Status: RO Nicole wrote > > Thanks, but sadly, Dharma doesn't ship to the UK nowadays. There are > > all sorts of useful things which they sell which I would love to get > > my hands on:-( > > ACK!!!! So much for my idea of ordering something then. How anti-global is > that, not to send anywhere in the world in this day and age of the internet. > *sniff* I think that they did it for a while but it was so much hassle that they packed it in. > > I might be able to ask my reenactor/costume friend in the US to send some over. > If I do that, would you like some too, Stevie? Yes, very much so. On general dying matters I have been very happy with stuff I get from http://www.kemtex.co.uk/ so I could try ringing them on Monday in case they carry it. Incidently, if anyone wants to dye a lot of fabric in one particular colour the guy will do a special mix of dyes for you. I wanted an eye popping red, and got it:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 12:00:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08974 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:00:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Gu1l9027627; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Gu1ud026719; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7Gt9ud026485 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:55:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207165508.38803.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 16:55:08 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] Coifs and me To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:55:08 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Talia wrote: > Square necklines for me... > > T Peplos gowns: 'string' in the waist but excess fabric from top bloused over that = everything as wide as the widest part, the hips, and 'boat' neckline. *shudder* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 12:28:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09116 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:28:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7HR7l9029105; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:27:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7HR1ud005309; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7HQRud005134 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:26:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fab.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.171]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 79E345EE92D for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:26:26 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c29e16$37641450$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] stays for a large person Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:29:37 +0100 Status: RO Hello I have updated my dress diary. Go to address below, click on robe a la francaise, and scroll down to the buttom where there is a link: underpinnings. It is only a mock up of the stays, wich are to be send to Denver on monday. Now, back to embroidery :-) Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 12:29:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09124 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:29:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7HT1l9029219; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7HT0ud005889; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7HS8ud005621 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:28:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-83-124.client.attbi.com[12.246.83.124]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2002120717280305100je8aee>; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 17:28:03 +0000 Message-ID: <3DF22F83.6030006@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coifs and me References: <00ab01c29e0d$afa9cee0$b65722d9@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 09:27:31 -0800 Status: RO Stevie Gamble wrote: >Hi all, > >I thought I'd combine a couple of recent threads by trying out a coif. >Never again; I nearly had a heart attack when I looked in the mirror, >so Heaven know's what it would do to an innocent bystander. >Are there any particular items of costume -as opposed to entire >ensembles- which people think are hideously unflattering on them > Dresses with pleated skirts and a waistline-at-the-waist. I look like a super-sized pincushion! I made most of a 1560 Flemish workingclass costume al la Drea Leed. Looked in the mirror and cried! Gave the completed parts to a friend. Hope she uses them someday. I didn't learn from that mistake and later made a sundress kind of thing w/ pleated waist. Ick Ick Ick. Maybe I've learned now. Need to have a dropped waist, or a pointed waist or no waist at all. liz lizyoung@fenris.net > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 12:34:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09159 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:34:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7HX1l9029367; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7HX0ud006946; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7HWvud006932 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:32:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 12095 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2002 17:32:56 -0000 Received: from turbo.sonic.net (208.201.224.26) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 17:32:56 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-147.sonic.net [209.148.112.147]) by turbo.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id gB7HWtB30826 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:32:55 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3DF23127.F9E29BB5@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? References: <20021207150027.79319.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 09:34:32 -0800 Status: RO > While I deleted the mail that said it, as I do with most other than > those I archive and self-forward, I was really very upset by the mail statin g > things about 'someone who shall not be named' and then continuing in the line > of being quite rude/nasty (don't hang, draw and quarter me if I don't find the > right word in English) about not liking one particular person. Please please > please do not do such a thing on a list, it is MOST upsetting to some, at least > to me. I can't stop thinking about that and its principle, because I think it > is so mean of describing someone without saying the name and saying nasty > things about that person. I weed out a lot of email without reading it and must have missed that one. I suspect the poster wanted the identity of the person to be guessed by the whole list (maybe it's someone they argue with a lot?) but they didn't quite have the guts to post the name. They should not have been using the list to sling insults either way. You are quite right to be upset about it. I would suggest that next time you see a post like this, you email the moderator (I think her address is still eliz@indra.com) and ask her to put a stop to using the list to trade insults. It would be better not to do it at all; but if someone insists on doing it they should do it privately and only involve the person they are annoyed at. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 12:47:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09202 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:47:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7HkNl9029970; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:46:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7HkMud010515; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:46:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7HjHud010204 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5067 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2002 17:45:16 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 17:45:16 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-147.sonic.net [209.148.112.147]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id gB7HjGg26128 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 09:45:16 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3DF2340C.98412AF5@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? References: <20021207135823.8728.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 09:46:52 -0800 Status: RO > > > There are questions that come up here from time to > time that I'm sure I can add to, but choose not to > because I don't have the time or access to > double-check my sources. I am a grazer of knowledge > most of the time, and have trouble remembering details > of sources off the top of my head if it's a topic I'm > not currently buried in. Unless I'm at home next to my > books with time on my hands, I usually let such > opportunities go, because I know it's a 'put up or > shut up' scenario. I think people should realize there is a difference between an email list and an academic paper. I personally will go the full reference route for materials I write for publication. But for a mailing list--generally not. It is as you say time consuming, and I have paying work to do. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 12:54:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09232 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:54:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Hr1l9000337; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Hr0ud012284; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7HqPud012131 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:52:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m96.in-tch.com [216.166.191.96]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB7HaND23074 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:36:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DF2356B.21BC81C6@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? References: <7F170921.34AC662E.00862037@aol.com> <3DF181C4.FDD17762@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 10:52:43 -0700 Status: RO Hello the list, from cold, foggy Montana! I agree...with Fran's comment, and with the person whom she's quoting. However, I don't think that those who are more into authenticity should have to apologize, either. I really get tired of being referred to as a "cosack" or "nazi" or any other disparaging term that somehow seems designed to make me feel like I'm some sort of stereotypical fun-stealer. I can't speak to the experiences of those folk who are in groups or RenFaires other than the SCA (my own mileu), so there very well may be groups with stricter standards. Or looser. Of course, I also think that if you don't like the standards of the group, go form your own.... But then, that variability of opinion is one of my favorite things about this particular list--there's such an amazing variety of interests, not just in the historical sense, but it how we define and use "costume." I'm primarily a medieval re-creationist/textile geek, so I really enjoy hearing from people who are more into RenFaires, or the theatre and movie folks, or times and cultures that I haven't thought of learning about....projects and solutions and Amazing Stuff that I never would have otherwise encountered! This list, and _all_ of the people on it (both the "noisier" ones like me, and the quieter "lurkers") have been a sanity-saver for me. Yeah, sometimes folks have pretty strong opinions on things, but so what? At least they feel comfortable enough to express those opinions (whether I agree with them or not). And yeah, occasionally, there's a thread I don't give a d@ng about, but then, that's what my delete key is for....And if someone gets really out of sorts, then that's what our List Mama is for...to gently-but-firmly remind us to stay on-topic and polite. Some folks have mentioned the sense of a "hierarchy" on this list....I don't think of it like that, because it implies that there's some sort of structure imposed on us. Certainly, there are individuals who've been able to learn more about their areas of interest than others, or who have better computer/fabric/research opportunities, but that's just life. I don't have the time, or the resources, or the training, to have my own website right now, but all of the examples of websites and dress diaries I've found through this list have got me thinking that I definitely want to do the same! Lists like this are a great opportunity for isolated folks like me to "converse" and "hang out" with people of all kinds--where ever they are on any given learning curve. Which means, I try not to let myself be too intimidated by Bjarne, or Drea, or Heather, or Robin, or Margo....or anyone else I'd occasionally give my eye teeth to be! If I'm feeling intimidated, or overwhelmed by what someone knows/can do, it's my responsibility to deal with that--it's a reaction that _I've_ brought to the relationship/conversation. Obligatory Costume Content: Today, I'm off to JoAnn's with my discount coupon, to see if they've got any wool (a girl can always hope, huh?), and to a local fiber-arts store to buy my tablet-weaving supplies for my gothic fitted gown (tm). I'm going to buy some different perle cottons to learn on, and some lovely 50/2 silk thread for the actual gown. Maybe lots and lots of the silk thread--it's undyed/unbleached, and a perfect weight to use for embroidery. And I'm learning from friends about natural dyes.... --Sue Fran wrote: > > > > > > > However if anyone is concerned about possible criticism for > > "shortcuts", there's a way to avoid most of it. Just mention, "I know > > this isn't absolutely authentic, but it's what I can get (or afford, > > or do, or have time for) right now." Those with _good_ manners, at > > least, will be much more likely to speak kindly and provide help in > > doing what you _can_ do in the best way possible. > > If the person does not state what their purpose is, it would be better > to ask if authenticity is indeed their desire--rather than assuming that > the person is aspiring to it and you just need to know what their limits > are. Authenticity is simply not relevant for some costuming purposes. > People should not have to start out with an apology to those for whom it > is more relevant. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 12:54:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09240 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:54:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Hs3l9000384; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Hs3ud012554; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Hroud012440 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:53:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m96.in-tch.com [216.166.191.96]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB7HbnD23585 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:37:49 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DF235C2.59ABE439@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Good dye suppliers was Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric References: <20021207162729.12454.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> <00be01c29e10$d0815f40$b65722d9@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 10:54:10 -0700 Status: RO Nicole, you can probably get one of us here in the US to order it for you, if there aren't any issues with mailing the chemicals/dyes. --sue Stevie Gamble wrote: > > Nicole wrote > > > > Thanks, but sadly, Dharma doesn't ship to the UK nowadays. There > are > > > all sorts of useful things which they sell which I would love to > get > > > my hands on:-( > > > > ACK!!!! So much for my idea of ordering something then. How > anti-global is > > that, not to send anywhere in the world in this day and age of the > internet. > > *sniff* > > I think that they did it for a while but it was so much hassle that > they packed it in. > > > > > I might be able to ask my reenactor/costume friend in the US to send > some over. > > If I do that, would you like some too, Stevie? > > Yes, very much so. > > On general dying matters I have been very happy with stuff I get from > > http://www.kemtex.co.uk/ > > so I could try ringing them on Monday in case they carry it. > > Incidently, if anyone wants to dye a lot of fabric in one particular > colour the guy will do a special mix of dyes for you. I wanted an eye > popping red, and got it:-) > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 13:00:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09274 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:00:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7I02l9000719; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7I01ud014409; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Hxwud014355 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:59:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m96.in-tch.com [216.166.191.96]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB7HhvD25482 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:43:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DF23732.345F6C5@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] stays for a large person References: <000701c29e16$37641450$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 11:00:18 -0700 Status: RO Hey! That might actually fit *me*! Bjarne, that silk is beeyoootiful! What a lucky lady! Would silk of that type be appropriate to use for a saque dress? I've always loved those, and would love to make one, even if I don't have anywhere to wear it! --sue, going back to her embroidery too, as soon as she can pry herself away from the computer! Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hello > I have updated my dress diary. > Go to address below, click on robe a la francaise, and scroll down to the > buttom where there is a link: underpinnings. > It is only a mock up of the stays, wich are to be send to Denver on monday. > Now, back to embroidery :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 13:22:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09361 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:22:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7IL1l9001388; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7IL0ud019929; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7IK1ud019639 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8298 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2002 18:20:01 -0000 Received: from turbo.sonic.net (208.201.224.26) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 18:20:01 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-98.sonic.net [209.148.112.98]) by turbo.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id gB7IK0B25041 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:20:00 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3DF23C30.BE4BD6B6@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? References: <7F170921.34AC662E.00862037@aol.com> <3DF181C4.FDD17762@lavoltapress.com> <3DF2356B.21BC81C6@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 10:21:36 -0800 Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > > I agree...with Fran's comment, and with the person whom she's quoting. > However, I don't think that those who are more into authenticity should > have to apologize, either. I really get tired of being referred to as a > "cosack" or "nazi" or any other disparaging term that somehow seems > designed to make me feel like I'm some sort of stereotypical > fun-stealer. H-costume is supposed to be a group that embraces all types of historic costuming. What I mean is, that there should be no default assumption that the person wants to make an authentic costume unless they say explicitly say otherwise and justify it. Any more than there should be a default assumption that the person is making a stage costume or a Halloween costume unless they say otherwise. Nor should there be an assumption that "more authentic" is always "better" and "progressive." If you're making a stage costume whose goal is to be seen from the back row and put on and off by the actor in a few minutes, delicate visual details and an intricate system of hooks and eyes are not better. In other words I think people should recognize that there can be entirely different and equally valid costuming goals. Not just "levels of authenticity" that everyone "should work up to" as they acquire more expertise and money for materials. Also, people should recognize that groups other than reenactors make costumes. I understand why people resent being called costume Nazis. It's an offensive label. However, such name calling is a reaction by those whose goal is not authenticity to being told explicitly or implicity that they "ought to" pursue their profession or hobby in a different way. In the case of h-costume, they should not be told "If you don't like authenticity, don't join this group." Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 13:54:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09485 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:54:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7In3l9002396; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7In1ud027782; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7ImPud027641 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-87-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.87.182] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Kk00-0001qT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:48:24 +0000 Message-ID: <00e201c29e21$c4aa4e00$b65722d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <000701c29e16$37641450$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stays for a large person MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:52:18 -0000 Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > I have updated my dress diary. > Go to address below, click on robe a la francaise, and scroll down to the > buttom where there is a link: underpinnings. > It is only a mock up of the stays, wich are to be send to Denver on monday. > Now, back to embroidery :-) > Bjarne, it's going to be wonderful! My only quibble is your term 'large woman'; I know exactly what you mean but some people may not. I recommend a term which my mother recommended to me: ' A Junoesque lady' Of course, not everybody is familiar with Roman mythology, but comparing someone to a goddess is usually pretty safe. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 14:35:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09706 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:35:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7JY2l9004391; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7JY0ud010136; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:34:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7JXQud009989 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:33:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-109-174.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.109.174]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANL16907; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:31:26 GMT Message-ID: <006a01c29e28$354b4140$ae6d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021207160604.10608.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:38:24 -0000 Status: RO >Nope, I tried it and didn't work. Ecover bleach was actually better than the Dylon stuff. Perhaps the Dharma trading one would work on the cotton lace that I have. I believe Dylon takes dye away rather than bleaches, if the cotton is ecru (I missed the rest of the thread ) you will need a bleach, Hydrogen peroxide is better than UK floor bleach Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 14:35:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09713 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:35:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7JZ1l9004422; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7JZ0ud010391; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7JYoud010339 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:34:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-109-174.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.109.174]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANL16998; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:32:49 GMT Message-ID: <007601c29e28$67167280$ae6d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021207162729.12454.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:39:47 -0000 Status: RO I expect they don't ship because of the laws etc on importing chemicals between countries Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 14:36:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09718 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:36:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7JZ6l9004437; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:35:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7JZ5ud010419; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7JY3ud010153 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:34:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-109-174.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.109.174]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANL16948; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:32:03 GMT Message-ID: <007101c29e28$4b8e69a0$ae6d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <00a301c29e0c$67b1d8e0$b65722d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:39:01 -0000 Status: RO >on the chemical name, What was the chemical name ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 14:40:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09732 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:40:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Jd1l9004617; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Jd1ud011609; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7JcRud011470 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:38:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-109-174.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.109.174]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANL17147; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:36:27 GMT Message-ID: <009f01c29e28$e89a4520$ae6d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021207165508.38803.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coifs and me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:43:18 -0000 Status: RO >Peplos gowns: 'string' in the waist but excess fabric from top bloused over that = everything as wide as the widest part, the hips, and 'boat' neckline. *shudder* Gareth's been an Anglo Saxon so long he actually finds these sexy !!! I hate Napoleonic empire line stuff, my boobs are way to big ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 14:42:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09752 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:42:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Jg1l9004706; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Jg0ud012479; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7JfTud012315 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:41:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-109-174.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.109.174]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ANL17238; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:39:29 GMT Message-ID: <00ac01c29e29$54e5f6c0$ae6d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021207160604.10608.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> <006a01c29e28$354b4140$ae6d4ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Kemtex Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:46:26 -0000 Status: RO Hey I knew Peter years ago !! I bet they can find you something Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 14:49:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09785 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:49:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Jm2l9004919; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Jm1ud014006; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Jliud013926 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:47:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fab.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.171]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DE63B48036E for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:47:42 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001101c29e29$f8b9f760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <000701c29e16$37641450$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3DF23732.345F6C5@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stays for a large person MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:51:01 +0100 Status: RO Dear Sue The Dress i am going to make of it, is actually a saque dress. So sure you can! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] stays for a large person > Hey! That might actually fit *me*! > Bjarne, that silk is beeyoootiful! What a lucky lady! > Would silk of that type be appropriate to use for a saque dress? I've > always loved those, and would love to make one, even if I don't have > anywhere to wear it! > --sue, going back to her embroidery too, as soon as she can pry herself > away from the computer! > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > Hello > > I have updated my dress diary. > > Go to address below, click on robe a la francaise, and scroll down to the > > buttom where there is a link: underpinnings. > > It is only a mock up of the stays, wich are to be send to Denver on monday. > > Now, back to embroidery :-) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 14:51:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09799 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:51:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Jp1l9005046; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Jp0ud014882; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Jotud014851 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:50:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fab.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.171]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6274F480594 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:50:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001701c29e2a$6b6b3bc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <000701c29e16$37641450$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <00e201c29e21$c4aa4e00$b65722d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stays for a large person MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:54:14 +0100 Status: RO Dear Stevie. Good heavens! i didnt think of it this way. Is it really bad to say a large person? Would it be better to say large sized? Perhaps i should use your mothers word then. Thanks for the tip! Did you get the cd? I sended it for you tuesday. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] stays for a large person > Bjarne wrote: > > > I have updated my dress diary. > > Go to address below, click on robe a la francaise, and scroll down > to the > > buttom where there is a link: underpinnings. > > It is only a mock up of the stays, wich are to be send to Denver on > monday. > > Now, back to embroidery :-) > > > > Bjarne, it's going to be wonderful! > My only quibble is your term 'large woman'; I know exactly what you > mean but some people may not. I recommend a term which my mother > recommended to me: > ' A Junoesque lady' > Of course, not everybody is familiar with Roman mythology, but > comparing someone to a goddess is usually pretty safe. > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 15:08:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09905 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:08:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7K71l9005519; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7K70ud018582; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7K67ud018371 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fab.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.171]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CDA60480352 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:06:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003801c29e2c$8bf1bb60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] next years projekts. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:09:28 +0100 Status: RO Hello the list! New year is not far away. What will be your next years projekts? I have some shoes to embroider, and maybe a stomacher. The shoes is going to be raised metal embroidery, and the stomacher will be mixed silks and metal thread. Then i am to make a polonaise dress. This is the things i have in my callendar. Then i think i want to make a late elizabethan dress. It is on time, that i have this period on my homepage. I never gets any renaissance orders, maybe because i dont have that period on the web. Perhaps i could sell it on ebay when i have made it. What about all you lurkers out there, let us hear what you wants to make!!! Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 15:20:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09988 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:20:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7KK2l9006554; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7KK1ud022445; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7KJ9ud022032 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:19:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB7KgDaB004573; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:42:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gB7KgDRU004571; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:42:13 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Elizabeth Young Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coifs and me User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <00ab01c29e0d$afa9cee0$b65722d9@dan> <3DF22F83.6030006@fenris.net> In-Reply-To: <3DF22F83.6030006@fenris.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200212071542.12985.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB7KJ9ud022032 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:42:12 -0500 Status: RO On Saturday 07 December 2002 12:27 pm, Elizabeth Young wrote: > Stevie Gamble wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >I thought I'd combine a couple of recent threads by trying out a coif. > >Never again; I nearly had a heart attack when I looked in the mirror, > >so Heaven know's what it would do to an innocent bystander. > >Are there any particular items of costume -as opposed to entire > >ensembles- which people think are hideously unflattering on them I look pretty dreadful in coifs myself. Especially the simple Viking kind (which surprised me; I usually look good in headwear of all kinds, no matter how strange). I look fine in a peplos type dress, provided the fabric is supple enough and/or thin enough to drape well; otherwise I tend to look dumpy. Other items of historic costume I can stand not to wear: Broad-shouldered 1890's style "waists" (tends to emphasize my shortness and de-emphasize the better aspects of my torso). That's about it, really. Guess I'm lucky.... -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 15:30:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10041 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:30:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7KT2l9007157; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7KT0ud025139; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7KS9ud024840 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:28:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fab.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.171]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E4CD85EEA16 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:28:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001401c29e2f$a053e760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] stays Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:31:30 +0100 Status: RO Dear Stevie. I am very glad that you warned me about that word. Silly me, i surely didnt want to be rude, and it was very careless of me. Now i used your word Junoeque in stead. Thanks for this Stevie, i am glad you told me. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 15:41:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10097 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:41:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Ke2l9007891; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Ke1ud028035; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7KdSud027872 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:39:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-87-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.87.182] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18KljT-0003WF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 20:39:27 +0000 Message-ID: <002101c29e31$47c564a0$b65722d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <000701c29e16$37641450$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <00e201c29e21$c4aa4e00$b65722d9@dan> <001701c29e2a$6b6b3bc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stays for a large person MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:43:20 -0000 Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > Dear Stevie. > > Good heavens! i didnt think of it this way. Is it really bad to say a large > person? > Would it be better to say large sized? I think you have to remember that as costumers we use words like large, medium, small etc as factual descriptions. Unfortunately in the outside world those terms may have undesirable connotations, and a dress diary on the Internet is *in* the outside world. Which means that it's perhaps preferable to use other terms... > Perhaps i should use your mothers word then. It's a good word; I commend to you also 'statuesque' and, in the case of a short large lady, 'pocket Venus'. > Thanks for the tip! You are most welcome; > Did you get the cd? I did indeed, and have been sitting at my pc almost non-stop since then. I am particularly taken with the dress at 21.jpg; there's a detailed picture at 19.jpg There are seashells in silver on the gown and the matching stole. It is very lovely, but I don't know what date it is, though. Many thanks for taking all that trouble best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 15:42:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10111 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:42:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Kf1l9007985; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Kf0ud028323; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Kerud028290 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:40:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id gB7KdmeB022677 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:39:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200212072039.gB7KdmeB022677@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stays To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Bjarne og Leif Drews" at Dec 07, 2002 09:31:30 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:39:47 -0800 (PST) Status: RO the other polite options for American English are "full figured" and "Plus sized". "Large" is just really not very specific, either -- a "large" person could be very tall, or very fat, or full figured. .heather. > > Dear Stevie. > I am very glad that you warned me about that word. > Silly me, i surely didnt want to be rude, and it was very careless of me. > Now i used your word Junoeque in stead. Thanks for this Stevie, i am glad > you told me. > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 15:44:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10129 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:44:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Kh1l9008045; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Kh1ud028937; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7KgRud028811 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:42:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207204226.46645.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 20:42:26 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Linda's question: Roman lady's dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:42:26 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO While I know next to nuffin about the Romans (*Monty Pythonesque voice* 'what have the Romans ever done for us...' hehehe) I just this book lying at my trusty Ben's (other half) and he said it was a good one: Costume of Ancient Rome by David J Symons, drawings by Jack Cassin-Scott. London, BT Batsford Ltd., 1987. Aldo, I found a photo amongst my looooooads of costume piccies (compulsive pic-saver ;-) which shows the dressing of a Roman lady: http://www.kipar.org/h-costume/dressing.jpg Perhaps that helps a little. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 16:19:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10281 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:19:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7LI3l9009542; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7LI1ud008289; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7LH6ud008049 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:17:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-120-93-4.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.120.93.4 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 21:17:06 -0000 Message-ID: <002c01c29e36$7496aed0$045d7843@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <005e01c29c93$55ae0a30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <018e01c29d95$d004d220$f52eaf40@angelap3a8d978> <001101c29df0$51061460$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th Century Dress detail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:20:23 -0800 Status: RO Thanks Bjarne and all! It's fascinating to think that pinking tools was all that was used, but does seem the most likely explanation. I do see in my "Fashion in Detail" that the edges are the tinest bit frayed, but given the age of the garments, it seems amazing to me that they aren't more shredded. It must be the weave of the fabrics, and the methods of cutting that preserves the edges. Bjarne, do you have closeup pics of your technique for edging the self ruching details? I would probably do something similar for theater, because durability is the second biggest concern to look as actors are terribly hard on their garments. The closer I can get to the right look the better. It's a fabulous and fairly inexpensive way to decorate garments rather elaborately so it's something I'd like to know a bit more about. You people are so generous with your knowledge. Thank you thank you. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 4:58 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th Century Dress detail > Dear Angela. > I will read through my book, danish one, i have about fashion in 18th > century. > It is my thoaght, that they did not do anything to the fabric, only the > pinking tools, cut the fabric on bias most of the time, so that it will not > fray. > When i make a lot of ruched ribbon works on the dress, i zig zag all the > edges very closely and then i turn over the zig zag as a seam and stitch by > hand. > I do the same thing for the sleave ruffles, you cant have a doubble seam on > those, because then they wont fall propperly. > Ill look what she writes about it today and post later. > > I have never done any pinking myself, i have made sleave ruffles cut like a > pinking shape, but only cut with a sharp scissor.And then only made a very > narrow seam with the zig zag turned round about 3-4 mm. > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cabbage Rose" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 3:10 AM > Subject: [h-cost] 18th Century Dress detail > > > > Bjarne, since you popped up, perhaps you would know the answer to this > > question. I just got my copy of "Fashion" from KCI and the pictures of > > dresses from your period are STUNNING! Most of them have what appears to > be > > pinked ruching, or gathered self "ribbons" made of the dress fabric all up > > and down the fronts of the dresses. The unfinished edges of the fabric > that > > has been pinked or otherwise cut are still nice and clean. How does that > > work? > > > > I cut fabric with pinkers and sometimes it still frays, particularly over > > time. I use fray check in theater, but obviously that did not exist back > > then. What kept the pinked edges neat? Better fabrics? A certain weave? > > Something I'm missing? > > > > Anyone with any knowledge may certainly pipe up. It's a marvelous book. > > Thanks to the original poster for mentioning it was available. > > > > angela > > +++++ > > Angela F. Lazear > > Cabbage Rose Costumes > > http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > > Theatrical Costume Design > > > > "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: > > be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, > > and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: > > be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." > > W. Shakespeare > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:20 AM > > Subject: [h-cost] Imperial Taffeta > > > > > > > Guess what? > > > I got 15 meters of sky blue Silk Taffeta from London today!!! > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 16:29:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10362 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:29:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7LT1l9009996; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7LT0ud011138; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7LSGud010941 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:28:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.59] (as3-4-73.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.59]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gB7LSD002822 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:28:13 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00a401c29ddb$ab1e8d20$97725651@bella> References: <20021206184052.42487.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> <00dc01c29dcb$ec5af0e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <00a401c29ddb$ab1e8d20$97725651@bella> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Delurking . . . with a Roman Question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB7LSGud010941 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:28:01 -0800 Status: RO At 10:30 AM +0000 12/7/02, Linda Walton wrote: >Hello Everyone ! > >Since there seems to be a mood of helpfulness abroad, and not many questions >being asked to use it up, I've nerved myself to ask about the subject that's >been worrying me lately. I know it's not the sort of historic costume that >this group usually finds itself discussing, but someone may know about it. >Web searches have produced only fairly thin information so far, and the >books I have available are very vague indeed. > >Please, how do I dress as a fairly wealthy Roman lady of the time of Cicero >? > >It is for a party with my Latin class on 17th December, so I would like it >to be as authentic as I can manage, and - especially - I would like to be >able to answer questions about it. So where my clothing isn't very >accurate, I would like to be able to explain about it. Although a brain-dump of references may not be very useful for the current deadline, at least you may find the following of use in the future. (This is simply a personal list of resources I've used -- not necessarily complete or definitive.) Stauffer, Annemarie. 1995. Textiles of Late Antiquity. Metropolitan Museum, New York. ISBN 0-89099-768-8 Houston, Mary G.. 1959. Ancient Greek, Roman and Byzantine Costume & Decor. Adam & Charles Black, London. Croom, A.T. 2000. Roman Clothing and Fashion. Tempus Publishing, Inc., Charleston. ISBN 0-7524-1469-0 Sebesta, Judith Lynn & Larissa Bonfante eds.. 2001. World of Roman Costume. University of Wisconsin Press, Madicon. ISBN 0-299-13854-2 Johns, Catherine. 1996. Jewellery of Roman Britain. Univ of Michigan Press, Ann Arbor. ISBN 0-472-10766-6 Wild, J.P. 1970. Textile Manufacture in the Northern Roman Provinces. Cambridge University Press. SBN 521-07491-6 Rogers, Penelope Walton, Lise Bender Jørgensen & Antoinette Rast-Eicher. 2001. Roman Textile Industry and its Influence. Oxbow Books, Oxford. ISBN 1-84217-046-5 Wilson, Lillian M.. 1938. Clothing of the Ancient Romans. (?publisher?) King, Donald. 1996. "Roman and Byzantine Dress in Egypt" in Costume: 30:1-15. I also tend to find a lot of the early Coptic material from Egypt to be helpful for construction and ornamentation ideas. >Here are some specific areas that I am wondering about:- >1. What about underwear ? I want to get the general shape right, and have >heard that Roman ladies wore - among other things - corsets, but don't know >when, or what sort. (This particularly concerns me because I must wear a >bra, due to mastectomy/prosthesis requirements, and I'm fairly plump, too.) I don't recall running across anything I'd describe as a "corset" (well, except for the "highly imaginative" costuming in the movie "Gladiator"!), but you get regular references to a breast-band called a "strophium" that -- if it is related to the garments seen on the "exercise girls" mosaic and various wall-paintings of sexual activity, appears to be basically a band wrapped around the breasts. So something for breast-support does seem to have been used, and for your particular requirements (and the context of the event), I'd just go with your regular bra and design the shoulder fastenings of the garments to cover the bra straps. >2. How should I decorate the fabric ? I've heard of gold thread in finds: >would that be couched embroidery ? I've got some good linen waiting to be >used, but could only add simple embroidery in the time available - what >patterns would be appropriate ? What about coloured wools ? (If the only >answer is woven gold threads, or complicated sewing, then I'd better go down >the social scale a bit !) If the late-Roman finds from Egypt are typical of Roman styles (which is not a certainty, but a good place to start), then decoration seems to have been primarily woven-in (tapestry weaving) with embroidery a far second in popularity. Gold thread could easily have been incorporated in tapestry-woven decorations. But there are at least _some_ parallel designs in embroidery (primarily chain or stem stitch in either wool or silk), and I could see it being plausible for couched gold thread to be incorporated in that sort of work. (Sometimes the kink-patterns in the metallic thread will give a clue to what kind of work was done with it, but sometimes it isn't in good enough shape for that kind of information.) If you want to do something relatively simple in a short time, I'd go with woolen embroidery in stem or chain stitch on linen, which is what you find in the early Coptic material. The motifs involved are exactly the same sorts that you find in tapestry work -- some sort of simple acanthus or key-pattern bands would probably be reasonable. >3. What about hairstyles and jewellery ? I've got long straight hair, and >couldn't go in for a great bush of little curls: could I get away with >putting it up in a bun like the Greek ladies. I know I won't need a veil, >(thank goodness), but should I have some other sort of head-dress ? Were >necklaces very common ? I do have some rings, brooches and a bracelet that >are copies of finds, would they be enough ? I'm not sure I can do justice to describing embroidery styles -- you'd be better off looking at portraits and archaeological finds from the period and getting your own sense of what would work. Ditto hairstyles. Some sort of bun-like style might work, but look at pictures any make your own interpretations. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 16:34:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10400 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:34:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7LY4l9010301; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:34:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7LY1ud012907; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7LXjud012809 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:33:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-120-93-4.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.120.93.4 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 21:33:44 -0000 Message-ID: <008d01c29e38$c7e165b0$045d7843@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <20021207150027.79319.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:37:02 -0800 Status: RO I believe I joined the list in approximately 1995 or a bit later. For those of you unfamiliar with me, I am a theatrical costumer in the SF Bay Area, US. I think for the most part it is a delightful place to chat and enquire about different questions that come up in theatrical costuming, and although visual historic accuracy is often my objective, technical historical accuracy is probably never going to be, unless whopper poppers were actually the closure method of choice at the turn of the century. Never stops me from following a thread of interest, nor from reeling with admiration for the collective wisdom embodied in the members here. As others have pointed out, we could be kinder to one another from time to time, but that is certainly always going to be true and is a part of the human condition. I know I have occasionally slipped up and to anyone I have offended over the years, a sincere, heartfelt apology. Just gotta love anyone who spends this much time thinking and "talking" about clothes, their beauty, their history and construction. The only difference between this list and heaven, is that in heaven, the dye lots will always be perfect, the fabric stash will never get bugs, and the costumes can be imagined into existence, without the backbreaking long nights of labor... wait I actually LIKE that part! Cheers angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Nay then, let the devil wear black, for I'll have a suit of sables..." W. Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 16:42:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10457 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:42:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Lg1l9010579; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Lg0ud015081; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7Lfwud015054 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:41:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWqTsqFBsFt6YNqX6isFSL40hq599frHREw=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKF573JT; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 16:41:44 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? Message-ID: <20021207.164002.-246165.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:40:01 -0500 Status: RO A new question just popped into my little pea brain. When did snaps first come out. Can't imagine that they are very old, but they are so convenient. Just curious. Thanks Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 16:45:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10466 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:45:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Lj2l9010675; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Lj2ud015988; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7Liaud015862 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:44:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-120-93-4.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.120.93.4 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 21:44:35 -0000 Message-ID: <000e01c29e3a$4bd9c550$045d7843@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <003801c29e2c$8bf1bb60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] next years projekts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:47:53 -0800 Status: RO Ohhh, how delightful a subject is this? I must finish a repro 20s performance Kimono, with black sheer organza trim beaded with garnet 3-cut transparent beads and these lovely blood red triangle beads I found coated in what is probably a gold wash. Sparkly! Then I will begin studying the teens (1912) in preparation for "The Music Man" , which will audition in May. I will also be Assistant Directing my first show. While I'm working on that, I will be helping my daughter execute her 1940's inspired prom dress. We will be making a chiffon skirt at the bottom in a solid color (unless anyone can tell me a fool proof method of gradient dying) and the top will be nude and beaded. A wedding dress for a friend's daughter in June... then "Sweeney Todd" in September. Set in 1865, (I believe, I will have to double check that), it is a period/fantasy/black comedy, for those of you who may be unfamiliar with it. Sondheim. Costumes are very spooky surreal. I'll probably also find time to make myself some more bias cut day dresses, my new favorite garb. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "So far as my coin would stretch; and where it would not I have used my credit." King Henry the Fourth; I, ii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 12:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] next years projekts. > Hello the list! > New year is not far away. What will be your next years projekts? > I have some shoes to embroider, and maybe a stomacher. > The shoes is going to be raised metal embroidery, and the stomacher will be > mixed silks and metal thread. > Then i am to make a polonaise dress. > This is the things i have in my callendar. > Then i think i want to make a late elizabethan dress. > It is on time, that i have this period on my homepage. > I never gets any renaissance orders, maybe because i dont have that period > on the web. > Perhaps i could sell it on ebay when i have made it. > What about all you lurkers out there, let us hear what you wants to make!!! > > > > Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 16:52:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10484 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:52:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Lp2l9010839; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Lp1ud017692; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7LoSud017570 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:50:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-120-93-4.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.120.93.4 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 21:50:27 -0000 Message-ID: <002f01c29e3b$1d9f3f70$045d7843@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <004c01c29d99$86cf87e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Designers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01C29DF8.0F49F2F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:53:45 -0800 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C29DF8.0F49F2F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Vionnet for inventing the bias. Chanel in the 20s. Worth, Balmain. These days John Galliano for being the showiest and the most = consistently to my own personal way over the top tastes. He did a = beaded / silk ribbon / 20s repro hankerchief hem line a few years backed = that simply rocked. Badgely Mishka for the prettiest evening wear. =20 hmm.... I'm sure I'm forgetting many. Dior, can't forget Dior. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes=20 http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Nay then, let the devil wear black,=20 for I'll have a suit of sables..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lloyd Mitchell=20 To: H-Costume=20 Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 6:35 PM Subject: [h-cost] Favorite Designers Here is a new topic for consideration: With the Twentieth Century = getting further behind us, and it was a century when fashion designers = became Known in their own right, who impresses you or has influenced = your own design interpretations and what influence will they make in the = ever evolving world of Historical Costuming. Anne Hollander in "Seeing = Through Clothes" makes the case for fashion of any age being re = interpreted subsequently in terms of the current mode of aesthetics; ( = and this can certainly be observed in the 20th C ideas pursued by the = movie mogul designers, as well as any time the Fashion runways quote the = fads and fancies of the past.) {Another semi-lurker, Kathleen M...A = list observer since the early 90's.] ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C29DF8.0F49F2F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Vionnet for inventing the = bias.  Chanel=20 in the 20s.  Worth, Balmain.
These days John Galliano for being = the=20 showiest and the most consistently to my own personal way over the top=20 tastes.  He did a beaded / silk ribbon / 20s repro hankerchief hem = line a=20 few years backed that simply rocked.  Badgely Mishka for the prettiest evening wear.  =
 
hmm.... I'm sure I'm forgetting = many. =20 Dior, can't forget Dior.
 
angela
+++++
Angela F. = Lazear
Cabbage Rose=20 Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostume= s.com
Theatrical=20 Costume Design
 
"Nay then, let the devil wear = black,
for=20 I'll have a suit of sables..."
W. Shakespeare
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lloyd=20 Mitchell
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 = 6:35=20 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Favorite=20 Designers

Here is a new topic for consideration: With the = Twentieth=20 Century getting further behind us, and it was a century when fashion = designers=20 became Known in their own right, who impresses you or has influenced = your own=20 design interpretations and what influence will they make in the ever = evolving=20 world of Historical Costuming. Anne Hollander in "Seeing Through = Clothes"=20 makes the case for fashion of any age being re interpreted = subsequently in=20 terms of the current mode of aesthetics; ( and this can certainly be = observed=20 in the 20th C ideas pursued by the movie mogul designers, as well as = any time=20 the Fashion runways quote the fads and fancies of the = past.)  =20 {Another semi-lurker, Kathleen M...A list observer since the early=20 90's.] 
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C29DF8.0F49F2F0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 16:55:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10511 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:55:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Lt2l9010945; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Lt1ud018594; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7LsCud018426 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:54:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-120-93-4.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.120.93.4 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 21:54:11 -0000 Message-ID: <004c01c29e3b$a3491510$045d7843@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <005e01c29c93$55ae0a30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <018e01c29d95$d004d220$f52eaf40@angelap3a8d978> <001101c29df0$51061460$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002c01c29e36$7496aed0$045d7843@angelap3a8d978> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th Century Dress detail /correction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:57:29 -0800 Status: RO This will drive me insane, sorry, but it's bad grammar, and it was mine. > Thanks Bjarne and all! It's fascinating to think that pinking tools [WERE] all > that was used, but ... (snip) > angela > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Cabbage Rose Costumes > http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > Theatrical Costume Design > "If we shadows have offended, think but this, > and all is mended, > That you have but slumbered here, > while these visions did appear." > A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 17:21:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10638 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 17:21:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7MK2l9011823; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7MK1ud024959; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rhenium (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7MJwud024913 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:19:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-87-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.87.182] helo=dan) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18KnIj-0004ao-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:19:57 +0000 Message-ID: <004601c29e3f$51e537e0$b65722d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <7F170921.34AC662E.00862037@aol.com> <3DF181C4.FDD17762@lavoltapress.com> <3DF2356B.21BC81C6@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:23:50 -0000 Status: RO Sue wrote, from cold, foggy Montana, a typically thoughtful post about what the list can and cannot do; > However, I don't think that those who are more into authenticity should > have to apologize, either. I really get tired of being referred to as a > "cosack" or "nazi" or any other disparaging term that somehow seems > designed to make me feel like I'm some sort of stereotypical > fun-stealer. I don't think you have to apologise either. People lurking on this list don't want to be told that a nice little polycotton mix will perfectly reproduce the handkerchief linen chemise they would like to have; they know perfectly well that it won't. Or at least they will know within 30 seconds of putting it on; there's a very large distinction between 'lurking' and 'stupid'. They want to learn. You can only learn by working at it, and sometimes that's hard. But putting vast amounts of time, energy and money into an ensemble which looks dreadful is a lot harder. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 17:49:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10753 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 17:49:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Mm2l9013761; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Mm0ud002152; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7MlFud001987 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:47:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be5d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.93]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C13805EE76B for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:47:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001901c29e43$10f60030$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] off topic/ paper clay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:50:40 +0100 Status: RO Hello. I have just ben surfing a little on the internet and found some amzing dolls made of paper clay. Are there anyone here, who knows this? Is it good to work with? Bjarne who is a little scared, i might find yeat another thing to do.............. www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 17:54:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10793 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 17:54:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Mr1l9013885; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7Mr0ud003474; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from gpvissmtpgw01.splitrock.net (gpvissmtpgw01.splitrock.net [63.254.138.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7Mqbud003398 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:52:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18675 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2002 22:52:36 -0000 Received: from 207-191-202-36.cpe.ats.mcleodusa.net (HELO computer) (207.191.202.36) by gpvissmtpgw.splitrock.net with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 22:52:36 -0000 Message-ID: <00e601c29e44$4d1ce820$24cabfcf@ats.mcleodusa.net> From: "Avien" To: References: <200212070112.gB71CC8f012953@jabberwock.wonderland.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Trim on Arwen's dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:59:28 -0600 Status: RO Hello, I am curious about the trim on Arwen's dress (neckline and upper sleeves) in the picture that was posted recently. http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/image14. shtml I have seen trim like this on other dresses in movies but haven't the slightest clue how they make the trim. I am interested in making some trim like this but I can't even begin to guess what was used or how it was done. Any suggestions? Also was trim like this ever used in historical garments? I like fantasy clothing almost as much as historical so it will be all right with me if it isn't period, any period. But I am curious. Thanks so much! Avien _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 18:05:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10834 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:05:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7N42l9014211; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7N41ud006327; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21307.mail.yahoo.com (web21307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.128.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7N3Yud006221 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:03:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207230333.44199.qmail@web21307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.25.107.69] by web21307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:03:33 PST From: kate Subject: Re: [h-cost] stays for a large person To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001101c29e29$f8b9f760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: ailith@neo.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:03:33 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Hey Bjarne If you go to http://www.geocities.com/ailithmac/elenora.jpg you will find a better copy of the portrait of Eleanora. Just right click on it and copy her for your website. Love the gown!!! Your work is absolutely stunning. kate __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 18:07:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10838 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:07:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7N71l9014321; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7N70ud007024; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21306.mail.yahoo.com (web21306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7N69ud006856 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:06:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207230608.39395.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.25.107.69] by web21306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:06:08 PST From: kate To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001101c29e29$f8b9f760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] oops Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: ailith@neo.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:06:08 -0800 (PST) Status: RO that was meant to go to Bjarne privately. Sorry about that... kate __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 18:12:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10850 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:12:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7NB1l9014431; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7NB0ud007863; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7NAdud007780 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:10:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021207231039.86603.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 23:10:39 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim on Arwen's dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00e601c29e44$4d1ce820$24cabfcf@ats.mcleodusa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:10:39 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Avien wrote: > Hello, What a coincidence, I was thinking about the same trim recently! (coz I love it) > I am curious about the trim on Arwen's dress (neckline and upper sleeves) in > the picture that was posted recently. > > http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/empiretttlarge/imagepages/image14. > shtml > > I have seen trim like this on other dresses in movies but haven't the > slightest clue how they make the trim. I am interested in making some trim > like this but I can't even begin to guess what was used or how it was done. > Any suggestions? Well, actually, while I was skimming through the old brain and trying to remember/fisgure iut where I had seen something like that it suddenly came to me: Indian shops. There are lots of those here in England. I know that I have seen lovely broad trims/sari edgings that were metallic embroideries and looked very much like the ones on her dress. Also, would could well be is that a vintage trim was used, particularly some vintage trim from India, I have some Victorian Indian bits that are stunning and similar in workmanship. All in all I'd say it could be reproduced using a metallic Indian sari trim. Have a look at Ebay, I am sure I have seen some on there. Sadly I wouldn't know how to make any like this - and to be honest, looking at the cost of such lovely Indian trims, even those in the shops, it isn't worth making. I suppose one could make them though using metallic threads on bullion trim and using padded metalwork embroidery. > Also was trim like this ever used in historical garments? I honestly don't think so other than in Victorian fancies, but I'm not that knowledgable on that. I like fantasy > clothing almost as much as historical so it will be all right with me if it > isn't period, any period. But I am curious. I'm with you on that *G* I LURVE fantasy. Nicole (and Baroque of course, but everyone knows that, hehe) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 18:21:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10869 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:21:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7NL2l9015009; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB7NL1ud010367; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB7NKpud010320 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:20:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5215 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2002 23:20:51 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 23:20:51 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-66.sonic.net [209.148.112.66]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id gB7NKo114043 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:20:50 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3DF282B2.D11E664C@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? References: <7F170921.34AC662E.00862037@aol.com> <3DF181C4.FDD17762@lavoltapress.com> <3DF2356B.21BC81C6@in-tch.com> <004601c29e3f$51e537e0$b65722d9@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:22:26 -0800 Status: RO > I don't think you have to apologise either. People lurking on this > list don't want to be told that a nice little polycotton mix will > perfectly reproduce the handkerchief linen chemise they would like to > have; they know perfectly well that it won't. Or at least they will > know within 30 seconds of putting it on; there's a very large > distinction between 'lurking' and 'stupid'. They want to learn. You > can only learn by working at it, and sometimes that's hard. But > putting vast amounts of time, energy and money into an ensemble which > looks dreadful is a lot harder. > > But not everyone considers a poly-cotton chemise to be a waste of time and money. It suits some people perfectly well--not because they're ignorant, but because it fulfills their goals. Whether it fulfills the goals of some other person who is not wearing it and does not officially set goals for some organization they both belong to, is entirely beside the point. Others would like to have the 100% linen but can't afford it. They don't want to be told they are ignorant, that they "ought to" afford linen, etc. If someone's outfit fulfills the goals _officially_ set by their organization or employer, and it fulfills their own goals in terms of what they want to wear, what they can afford, what they are able to make, etc.--it is never a waste of time and money. There is no reason to throw something out just because of freelance criticism, on the net or elsewhere. My point is that everyone, when posting, should consider that h-costume has members with many different costuming goals. Others may not have the same goals you do, but their goals are still valid for them. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 20:29:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11274 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:29:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81T1l9019652; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81T1ud010654; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81S6ud010464 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:28:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021208012805.HTDE2181.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 01:28:05 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Message-ID: <3DF2A01E.28154.3487E498@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3DF282B2.D11E664C@lavoltapress.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 01:27:58 -0000 Status: RO On 7 Dec 2002 at 15:22, Lavolta Press wrote: > > People lurking on this > > list don't want to be told that a nice little polycotton mix will > > perfectly reproduce the handkerchief linen chemise they would like > > to have; they know perfectly well that it won't. Or at least they > > will know within 30 seconds of putting it on; there's a very large > > distinction between 'lurking' and 'stupid'. They want to learn. You > > can only learn by working at it, and sometimes that's hard. But > > putting vast amounts of time, energy and money into an ensemble > > which looks dreadful is a lot harder. I suspect that you underestimate the ignorance of some of us. I don't think I'm stupid as such, but as yet (well, until a few minutes ago!) I had no idea to what extent poly-cotton could or could not reproduce linen. Myy guess would err towards "not", but I've never had the experience to judge. I'd rather not waste large quantities of my time finding out the hard way: so when I need to know this sort of thing, I'll be asking amazingly ignorant questions. And, going by past experience, getting helpful and informative answers. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 20:30:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11286 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:30:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81P5l9019487; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:25:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81P1ud009819; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m8.bos.untd.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB81Ouud009766 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:24:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OsU6EAbxuJTKlUZsgajChzc="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKGJWR92; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 20:23:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] stays Message-ID: <20021207.172524.-211469.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-5,7-42 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:44:17 +0000 Status: RO Of course you need to remember that in America anything over a size 2 is a plus size. :/ Arlys, who is medium tall, but not large, and *still* needs to buy the bloody plus sizes! On Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:39:47 -0800 (PST) Heather Meadows writes: > the other polite options for American English are "full figured" and > "Plus sized". "Large" is just really not very specific, either -- a > "large" > person could be very tall, or very fat, or full figured. > > .heather. > > > > > > Dear Stevie. > > I am very glad that you warned me about that word. > > Silly me, i surely didnt want to be rude, and it was very careless > of me. > > Now i used your word Junoeque in stead. Thanks for this Stevie, i > am glad > > you told me. > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 20:42:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11333 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:42:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81f2l9019990; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81f1ud013303; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81elud013238 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:40:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m21.in-tch.com [216.166.191.21]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB81OjD14818 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:24:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DF2A332.3D274F8E@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] stays References: <200212072039.gB7KdmeB022677@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:41:06 -0700 Status: RO The way Heather phrases it is pretty spot-on, Bjarne. I'm at the high end of full-figured sizes, and I wasn't offended by your use of the term "large," but it could be taken in a number of ways, like Heather says. For instance, I think you'd have a H*ll of a time making stays for me--I'm very big, fairly short, and have a bigger bust than most I've met. And a friend of mine, who could also loosely be described as "large," but who is almost a foot taller than I, would be a different challenge altogether--smaller bust, bigger ribcage, longer proportions. --sue, who bought, today, some lovely 50/2 silk for the tablet-woven edges of her fitted-gown sleeves.....I love silk....*sigh*..... Heather Meadows wrote: > > the other polite options for American English are "full figured" and > "Plus sized". "Large" is just really not very specific, either -- a "large" > person could be very tall, or very fat, or full figured. > > .heather. > > > > > Dear Stevie. > > I am very glad that you warned me about that word. > > Silly me, i surely didnt want to be rude, and it was very careless of me. > > Now i used your word Junoeque in stead. Thanks for this Stevie, i am glad > > you told me. > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 20:45:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11352 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:45:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81j2l9020072; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81j2ud014098; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81iaud013983 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:44:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m21.in-tch.com [216.166.191.21]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB81SZD16128 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:28:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DF2A41A.2B41054E@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] how many of us are there? References: <20021207150027.79319.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> <008d01c29e38$c7e165b0$045d7843@angelap3a8d978> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:44:58 -0700 Status: RO Yeah, the endorphin rush is something else, isn't it? --Sue, who's pulled a few all-nighters herself! Cabbage Rose wrote: > > Just gotta love anyone who spends this much time thinking and "talking" > about clothes, their beauty, their history and construction. The only > difference between this list and heaven, is that in heaven, the dye lots > will always be perfect, the fabric stash will never get bugs, and the > costumes can be imagined into existence, without the backbreaking long > nights of labor... wait I actually LIKE that part! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 20:57:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11385 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:57:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81u2l9020455; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81u1ud016644; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB81t6ud016463 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:55:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m21.in-tch.com [216.166.191.21]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB81d5D19372 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:39:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DF2A690.28F925DF@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] next years projekts. References: <003801c29e2c$8bf1bb60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:55:28 -0700 Status: RO Ooooh! Cool new topic! I have a couple of goals for next year--I'm making a wool and linen fitted gown for a competition in February. And I'm going to be making new garb--some nice Flemish market stuff (16th c.), and maybe a couple of outfits from the Manesse Codex. And I plan on picking up my bobbin lace again--I've still got the notes and such from your class this past winter. My biggest project, though, will be finishing the embroidery on my blackworked shift. I want to have it done by next August.... --sue (not a lurker, though! ) Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hello the list! > New year is not far away. What will be your next years projekts? > I have some shoes to embroider, and maybe a stomacher. > The shoes is going to be raised metal embroidery, and the stomacher will be > mixed silks and metal thread. > Then i am to make a polonaise dress. > This is the things i have in my callendar. > Then i think i want to make a late elizabethan dress. > It is on time, that i have this period on my homepage. > I never gets any renaissance orders, maybe because i dont have that period > on the web. > Perhaps i could sell it on ebay when i have made it. > What about all you lurkers out there, let us hear what you wants to make!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 21:16:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11477 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:16:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82G3l9021102; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82G1ud020853; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB82FXud020746 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:15:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 24516 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 02:15:33 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 02:15:33 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-106.sonic.net [209.148.112.106]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id gB82FWP26136 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:15:32 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3DF2ABA5.31B612E@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? References: <3DF2A01E.28154.3487E498@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:17:09 -0800 Status: RO Actually, that quote below is from someone else's message. I didn't write it. What I pointed out is there are people who use poly cotton and other synthetics from choice. That that is an intentional goal, and they don't appreciate being told they are ignorant and need to be "educated." Fran Jane Williams wrote: > On 7 Dec 2002 at 15:22, Lavolta Press wrote: > > > > People lurking on this > > > list don't want to be told that a nice little polycotton mix will > > > perfectly reproduce the handkerchief linen chemise they would like > > > to have; they know perfectly well that it won't. Or at least they > > > will know within 30 seconds of putting it on; there's a very large > > > distinction between 'lurking' and 'stupid'. They want to learn. You > > > can only learn by working at it, and sometimes that's hard. But > > > putting vast amounts of time, energy and money into an ensemble > > > which looks dreadful is a lot harder. > > I suspect that you underestimate the ignorance of > some of us. I don't think I'm stupid as such, but as > yet (well, until a few minutes ago!) I had no idea to > what extent poly-cotton could or could not reproduce > linen. Myy guess would err towards "not", but I've > never had the experience to judge. I'd rather not > waste large quantities of my time finding out the > hard way: so when I need to know this sort of thing, > I'll be asking amazingly ignorant questions. And, > going by past experience, getting helpful and > informative answers. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 21:29:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11517 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:29:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82SHl9021742; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:28:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82SGud024222; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:28:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f95.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82ROud023982 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:27:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:27:19 -0800 Received: from 213.123.152.122 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 02:27:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [213.123.152.122] From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2002 02:27:19.0066 (UTC) FILETIME=[54BFAFA0:01C29E61] Subject: [h-cost] Lurkers etc Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 02:27:18 +0000 Status: RO I know I'm a little late (gosh, haven't checked my e-mail in 24 hours – you people are prodigious!!) but I wanted to weigh in with my 2p worth on the whole lurkers/why aren't there so many subscribers anymore debate.... I've only been a member on this list for a few months, and I don't post very much. I have recently been thinking a lot about unsubscribing. Why? Because it annoys me (and it's 2am and I'm fortified by a certain amount of wine and I figure I've got nothing to lose here) that, no matter what you post about, there are always people who seem to take pleasure in disagreeing with you, just for the hell of it. But, to my mind, actually, NOBODY really knows what it was like in the time periods this list covers, NOBODY was there and the documented evidence is scarce to say the least, and usually restricted to certain levels of society. Frankly, it p***es me off that people think they have all the answers... On a personal level, it also annoys me when people say (as has happened a lot recently), "Oh, the English are like this" or "xxxx happens/happened in England". As an English person, born and bred, and having worked in London for 10 years, there have been several things mentioned on this list recently relating to London and/or England that have been completely inaccurate, but although I've thought about replying, I haven't because I can't be bothered to get into that whole thing where someone tells me that's not how it is (even though I'm there every day). I'm sorry if this is aggressive, I'm sorry if it sounds like a rant (which I guess it is) but I came on this list looking for interesting conversation and for the most part, I just see people nit-picking with other people – because they can. I guess I'll get flamed for this and I'm prepared to accept that because I know I'll just go back to being a lurker... Just thought I'd explain why. And for the record, I went to a Ren Faire once in California and, even though I wasn't into costume in those days, was hugely insulted by the interpretation of England. To my mind, it was Renaissance Disney. Kate _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 21:29:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11524 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:29:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82S2l9021731; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82S0ud024161; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82R0ud023829 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from VALINOR ([24.103.127.8]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.06 201-253-122-126-106-20020509) with ESMTP id <20021208022648.QUWF4594.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:26:48 -0500 Message-ID: <00b501c29e61$451d0020$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: References: <001901c29e43$10f60030$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic/ paper clay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.103.127.8] using ID at Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:26:47 -0500 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:26:52 -0500 Status: RO Paperclay is fabulous stuff; I've made small anime props and accessories out of it and love it to bits. It's very fine-grained, so is very smooth and pliable but air-dries (unlike fimo or sculpey) and can be sanded to a porcelain finish. It's easy to work with (all you need is water) and also dries incredibly light. -- Maral the den of sarcasm http://sarcasm.fanfic.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 5:50 PM Subject: [h-cost] off topic/ paper clay > Hello. > I have just ben surfing a little on the internet and found some amzing dolls > made of paper clay. > Are there anyone here, who knows this? > Is it good to work with? > > Bjarne who is a little scared, i might find yeat another thing to > do.............. > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 21:45:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11587 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:45:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82j2l9022239; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82j1ud027717; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82ipud027654 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:44:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.d0.3127639d (4206) for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:44:42 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] next years projekts. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d0.3127639d.2b240c1a_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:44:42 EST Status: RO --part1_d0.3127639d.2b240c1a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/7/2002 8:56:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes: > What will be your next years projekts? > I first have to finish up various garments for the Battle of New Orleans reenactment in January. I know from experience that it can be cold, so I'm taking two wool spencers. One is done and the other is in progress. I also am planning a wool flannel petticoat for warmth, and would finally like to get my stays done. I bought an ikat silk sari at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival last summer and would like to make a Regency/Federal period ball gown by June. (We'll see if it gets done.) But first, I must finish a princess outfit for my granddaughter for Christmas. It is Simplicity pattern 5909. This is a Renaissance-inspired look. As I'm using some ivory polyester shantung I had on hand, the skirt will not be as full as the pattern (this is just for dress up anyway!) The sleeves will be point d'esprit, and the vest purple velvet with rose gimp and silver lace trim. Mom also requested a "princess hat," which I guess is a hennin, which will also be the velvet. I have been trying to use fabrics I have on hand for current projects. One of the spencers is a green wool I had planned for a skirt several years ago, and gold trims that I already had. For the other spencer, I got a piece of camel-colored wool out of the cedar chest that was going to be a blazer about 20 years ago. I dyed it with Rit wine dye and it came out a nice rust color. I'm lining it with white silk twill. I admit, the sari was a new, and rather expensive, purchase. But my husband had just bought himself a banjo for almost the same price, so I HAD to do something! That only takes me through June. I will need a new 1814 gown next summer, so have to start thinking about that. And I bought some brown wool and velvet to make my husband a new tailcoat, so need to work that in somewhere. Ann Wass --part1_d0.3127639d.2b240c1a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/7/2002 8:56:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes:


What will be your next years projekts?


I first have to finish up various garments for the Battle of New Orleans reenactment in January.  I know from experience that it can be cold, so I'm taking two wool spencers.  One is done and the other is in progress.  I also am planning a wool flannel petticoat for warmth, and would finally like to get my stays done.

I bought an ikat silk sari at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival last summer and would like to make a Regency/Federal period ball gown by June.  (We'll see if it gets done.)

But first, I must finish a princess outfit for my granddaughter for Christmas.  It is Simplicity pattern 5909.  This is a Renaissance-inspired look.  As I'm using some ivory polyester shantung I had on hand, the skirt will not be as full as the pattern (this is just for dress up anyway!)  The sleeves will be point d'esprit, and the vest purple velvet with rose gimp and silver lace trim.  Mom also requested a "princess hat," which I guess is a hennin, which will also be the velvet.

I have been trying to use fabrics I have on hand for current projects.  One of the spencers is a green wool I had planned for a skirt several years ago, and gold trims that I already had.  For the other spencer, I got a piece of camel-colored wool out of the cedar chest that was going to be a blazer about 20 years ago.  I dyed it with Rit wine dye and it came out a nice rust color.  I'm lining it with white silk twill.

I admit, the sari was a new, and rather expensive, purchase.  But my husband had just bought himself a banjo for almost the same price, so I HAD to do something!

That only takes me through June.  I will need a new 1814 gown next summer, so have to start thinking about that.  And I bought some brown wool and velvet to make my husband a new tailcoat, so need to work that in somewhere.

Ann Wass --part1_d0.3127639d.2b240c1a_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 21:47:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11614 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:47:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82l0l9022314; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:47:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82l0ud028140; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:47:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82kAud027988 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:46:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from VALINOR ([24.103.127.8]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.06 201-253-122-126-106-20020509) with ESMTP id <20021208024551.LKUX4992.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:45:51 -0500 Message-ID: <017901c29e63$f2c40a00$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coifs and me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.103.127.8] using ID at Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:45:50 -0500 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:46:02 -0500 Status: RO V-necklines for me, or anything that makes my already narrow shoulders look even narrower. Also, I've never worn a farthingale or pannier gown, but I highly suspect I'd look very silly due to being quite short. -- Maral ----- Original Message ----- From: "Talia" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 11:38 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Coifs and me > Square necklines for me... > > T > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Stevie Gamble > Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:29 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Coifs and me > > > Hi all, > > I thought I'd combine a couple of recent threads by trying out a coif. > Never again; I nearly had a heart attack when I looked in the mirror, > so Heaven know's what it would do to an innocent bystander. > Are there any particular items of costume -as opposed to entire > ensembles- which people think are hideously unflattering on them, or > indeed others? > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 21:48:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11632 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:48:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82m1l9022365; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82m1ud028359; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB82lLud028198 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:47:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from VALINOR ([24.103.127.8]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.06 201-253-122-126-106-20020509) with ESMTP id <20021208024657.LMKF4992.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:46:57 -0500 Message-ID: <018301c29e64$1a1b9a50$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: References: <05e601c29da9$988a27a0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> <3DF20AF7.8CE407E9@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.103.127.8] using ID at Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:46:55 -0500 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:47:07 -0500 Status: RO Ooh, that might be useful indeed. Wow, thanks for all the suggestions everybody! ^_^ -- Maral ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question. > Hi, Maral. I remember your question from the first time you posted, but > didn't have anything that could help you, since I'm pretty ignorant of > Moorish cultures. > It occurs to me, though, that I've seen some stuff on Andalusian Spain, > which had a good mix of Christian and Muslim cultural influences. I > could dig that up, if you like? > --Sue "not a lurker" Clemenger....;-) > > Herself-the-Elf wrote: > > > > I tried posting this earlier, but I'm not sure it got to the list. Here > > goes... > > > > Well now that I've pretty much solved my wedding dress problem, I'm > > wondering about > > my guy. I don't think he's likely to want to wear a houppelande or some > > such, and definitely not the silly shoes. So I'm trying to think of > > something different that would still be period (late 14th to early 15th c). > > He's got dark skin, so I was thinking maybe a nifty Moorish costume of some > > sort. Does anybody have any information on Moorish (or any > > middle-eastern/North African) costume of this era? I haven't been able to > > find much detailed info online... > > > > -- Maral > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 22:05:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11724 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:05:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8352l9022940; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8351ud002500; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB834Bud002313 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:04:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB836ZYv008864 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:06:35 -0800 Message-ID: <3DF2B714.7070307@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coifs and me References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 19:05:56 -0800 Status: RO Those fabulous beaded/embroidered/decorated Art Deco Dresses look like expensive bundles of neglected laundry on (pear shaped) me. Theresa Eacker Talia wrote: > Square necklines for me... Stevie wrote: > I thought I'd combine a couple of recent threads by trying out a coif. > Never again; I nearly had a heart attack when I looked in the mirror, > so Heaven know's what it would do to an innocent bystander. > Are there any particular items of costume -as opposed to entire > ensembles- which people think are hideously unflattering on them, or > indeed others? > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 22:07:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11733 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:07:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8361l9023008; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8361ud002732; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB8359ud002532 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:05:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23966 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 03:05:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.190) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 03:05:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3DF2B6C5.208DF0EE@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] next years projekts. References: <003801c29e2c$8bf1bb60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:04:37 -0500 Status: RO Hello everyone, I'd thought I would jump in instead of lurking and only asking questions. I have too many things that I want to do for next year,it is doubtful I can complete all of them. First on my list is finishing the beading of under sleeves to a green gown. Next is the Elizabethan coif. I have the linen, the silk thread ( I owe Bjarne thanks for the link to Nan's site) and the pattern (Thanks to Drea's site ) and instructions, all I need is time and the know how. Then I hope to make a Ropa. I have a black and gold fabric that I love, whether its period or not I can see a Ropa every time I look at it. I want to take two more classes on line. I hope to enter another competition, win or lose they are fun and test my endurance. I have two sets of 16th century man's outfits to make, which I hope to have completed by July. Plus I hope to begin a 1650's gown. I'm on the hunt for the fabric and trim now. (I'm placing blame on Nicole for this one. I love the blue gown. I know its redundant but the Blue gown is sinnfully beautiful.) To end this madness of mine I want to improve my hat making skills. I will attempt to make two more tall hats, another Italian bonnet, and one more french hood. All I want and need for Christmas is 36 hours in a day. I think that is my list of projects for next year for me. But something always gets added. Diana -who is looking at two skirts to be stitched, one hat to be finished and the under sleeves. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 22:08:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11741 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:08:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8381l9023089; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8381ud003173; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB837nud003129 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:07:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83ADYv008875 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:10:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3DF2B7EE.1040101@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coifs and me References: <20021207165508.38803.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 19:09:34 -0800 Status: RO Oh, yeah, that'll do it for the pear=shaped species among us!!! Theresa Eacker N Kipar wrote > Peplos gowns: 'string' in the waist but excess fabric from top bloused over > that = everything as wide as the widest part, the hips, and 'boat' neckline. > *shudder* > > Nicole > > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 22:18:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11770 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:18:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83I2l9023484; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83I1ud005453; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83H4ud005263 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from p964-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.202] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18KrwE-0007dG-00; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 16:17:03 +1300 Message-ID: <00d801c29e68$464bdf00$cac3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20021207153610.63484.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bleaching/lightening fabric MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:17:00 +1300 Status: RO > Oh wow, Lee, that looks JUST like what I would need for a lace of mine, thanks > for sharing this. I just fear that shipping from the US might be a tad > expensive. :-( Still, I think I'll order some in the new year. Try Dylon pre-colour. I use it and I understand it's available in the UK. But now just reading that you've had problems with it.. I don't know what to suggest. I find it took every last trace of a screaming fushia from 10m of silk chiffon. And it managed to remove most of the dye in a silk saree (the one I used for my Eowyn costume- it was a very dark red brown). I did find for the saree I had to do it twice because of the dye content I assume. Very stubborn and it was second hand so it must havce survived some washings;) It's also pretty inexpensive so if you need two tubs it's not that big a deal. And tubs for those not familiar with the stuff actually means a small flat tin about 2 inches in diameter;) I'm about to try using to remove colour from some metal and something lace;) I don't think it's made from aluminium so it sould be fine. Bleaching it just fades it a bit and the green to grey and I want it lighter than that. I did find I had to stick very carefully to their instructions and when I tried speeding it up it didn't work so well. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 22:22:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11788 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:22:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83K1l9023560; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83K0ud005964; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83JXud005838 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:19:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from p964-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.202] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18Krye-0005P2-00; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 16:19:32 +1300 Message-ID: <00dc01c29e68$a091c3d0$cac3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <001901c29e43$10f60030$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic/ paper clay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:19:31 +1300 Status: RO > I have just ben surfing a little on the internet and found some amzing dolls > made of paper clay. > Are there anyone here, who knows this? > Is it good to work with? I use Das which is the same concept, probably different properties though:) I make mixed media cats from it, the other media being cloth. I do prefer polymer clays though to make dolls. And I mix sculpey, FIMO and Du Kit to get a clay pliable enough but not too pliable for the sculpting and neither brittle nor soft when baked. Haven't made a doll in a while though. Maybe I'll go back to it at another date:) michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 22:27:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11810 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:27:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83R2l9023741; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83R0ud007615; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83QCud007458 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:26:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip168.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.168]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB83Q7Z19264 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:26:08 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating (was Tudor question) Message-ID: <3DF24978.23030.33818711@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00d001c29d81$33b2e7e0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 19:18:16 -0800 Status: RO > I'm having a hard time imagining how this works. I usually have a hard > time trying to imagine what some technique looks like without a > picture attached ;-) Could you try explaining it again? Or do you have > pictures/sketches of this technique? This is one which is almost impossible to really explain. Pictures work the best but I don't have a website to show my diagrams. And some people actually have to have it demonstrated slowly in front of them. (I've taught this class *far* too many times and it always absolutely exhausts me.) I don't know of any good books which show all the techniques. The Costume Technician's Handbook has one of the techniques. I suspect that you could do a Google search online and find some pictures as well. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 22:28:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11816 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:28:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83RUl9023765; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:27:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83RUud007724; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:27:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83QEud007469 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:26:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip168.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.168]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB83Q9Z19267 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 19:26:10 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question Message-ID: <3DF24978.8140.3381891E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20021206093558.00d9bc60@pop.directcon.net> References: <3DF068C3.2207.2C2B7CBF@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 19:18:16 -0800 Status: RO T > >Also, many people think that cartridge pleats are only sewn on one > >edge (the top.) It really depends on the look one is going for. If > >you want them to hang down, you sew them only at the top. If you want > > to them to stand out some, you sew them at the top and bottom of the > > pleat. > > Actually, if you want them to hang straight down, you sew them at the > *bottom* of the pleat. You're then left with the pleated section > jutting out like a little shelf, a look some people like but I can't > stand. You are making me wish we had a better way of exchanging drawings as we may be saying the same thing! Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 22:52:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11918 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:52:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83p2l9024505; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83p1ud013208; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83o6ud012900 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:50:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB84DDaB006220 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:13:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gB84DC6r006218 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:13:12 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] next years projekts. User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <003801c29e2c$8bf1bb60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3DF2B6C5.208DF0EE@inetone.net> In-Reply-To: <3DF2B6C5.208DF0EE@inetone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200212072313.12486.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB83o6ud012900 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:13:12 -0500 Status: RO I have a couple of projects that I have been too busy to get to for at least 12 months now: A bliaut (in rust colored wool crepe) with a gold kirtle A 1840's ball gown, in pale blue satin with a bertha of ivory-colored Alencon lace (machine made but still quite nice). At the rate I'm going at work, though, I wouldn't bet on my chances of getting either done in 2003.... Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 22:52:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11927 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:52:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83q1l9024549; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83q0ud013394; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB83pvud013370 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:51:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gB84F9aB006232; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:15:09 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gB84F8Ov006230; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:15:08 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Theresa Eacker Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coifs and me User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20021207165508.38803.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> <3DF2B7EE.1040101@misc.com> In-Reply-To: <3DF2B7EE.1040101@misc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200212072315.08588.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gB83pvud013370 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:15:08 -0500 Status: RO On Saturday 07 December 2002 10:09 pm, Theresa Eacker wrote: > Oh, yeah, that'll do it for the pear=shaped species among us!!! > And *that* reminds me of the other fashion I look hideous in: the miniskirt! (especially the microminis and no-waisted stuff of the 1960's and early 1970s). My thighs are disproportionately large compared to the rest of me, and I look grotesque in anything with a hemline signficantly above the knee. -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 23:15:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12021 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:15:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB84E2l9025121; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB84E1ud017993; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail010.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail010.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB84DTud017839 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:13:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail010.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id gB84DNF06010 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 15:13:23 +1100 Message-ID: <009901c29e70$195dab10$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: References: <03345EFBE0450444B9E4E288E219D54011CD4A@mailexchange.dcls.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lurkers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 15:09:51 +1100 Status: RO > I joined in the early 90's, while I was working in Tennessee. After I moved back to PA in the late 90's, I had some problems keeping subscribed. I would subscribe and after a couple of weeks I would stop receiving digests. After a couple of months of that I let the whole thing lapse. I picked the list up again two years ago and haven't had any problems. > I had originally joined in the mid 90's but after a few years Real Life (tm) intervened and I no longer had time to sift through the amount of email this list can generate so I unsubscribed. However I was recently reminded of the lists existence and thought it might be time to come back and join in. Baralier -- Good planning and organisation are just crutches for people who can't handle stress and caffeine. http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Dec 7 23:35:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12121 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:35:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB84Y6l9025679; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:34:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB84Y1ud022267; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail022.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail022.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB84Xgud022167 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:33:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail022.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id gB84XQL28809 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 15:33:26 +1100 Message-ID: <013a01c29e72$e6b6df80$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: References: <200212062358.gB6Nw0o3012334@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, but NOT a food question. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 15:30:08 +1100 Status: RO > Sometimes I wonder if this list is really all about english/american/aussie/ > etc etc etc translation... it seems every month the topic erupts Yet Again > of "what do YOU call that?" and it's usually not even sewing or costume > related. I'd hazard a guess that in the process of researching costumes and the background information the goes with them there are a lot of things that people find that they don't understand. Sometimes it relates to the construction of the garment (as the current thread on Tudor pleating shows) other times it's more of a what is a such-and-such. > I've been on the list almost ten years now, and I am still regularly amazed > how much that pops up. that, more than any flaming that has ever happened, > is the only thing that's made me want to leave. I just kind of shake my > head and go "that again?" and delete the next 100 - 150 messages from the list. As I'm sure happens when the discussion involves the minutae of 17th century panniers if you have no interest in that area. Or the dyeing of fabrics... > But, it's a discussion list, and I guess that's what we like to discuss. Yup. > *ducking before she gets flamed* Nah. Baralier -- Good planning and organisation are just crutches for people who can't handle stress and caffeine. http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 00:08:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12203 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 00:08:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8576l9026591; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:07:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8570ud029255; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB856nud029190 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:06:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB859DYv012432 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:09:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3DF2D3D2.1010201@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Wonderful Site (wasRe: [h-cost] OT, but NOT a food question.) References: <200212062358.gB6Nw0o3012334@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <013a01c29e72$e6b6df80$18a231d2@valadan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:08:34 -0800 Status: RO To Baralier- I clicked on your URL at the bottom of your msg - what a _GREAT_ site. Your photograph with the bats in the leafless tree is fabulous!!! WOW!! Thanks for letting us know about the kewl things going on down your way!! Theresa Eacker Baralier wrote: >>Sometimes I wonder if this list is really all about >> > english/american/aussie/ > >>etc etc etc translation... it seems every month the topic erupts Yet >> > Again > >>of "what do YOU call that?" and it's usually not even sewing or >> > costume > >>related. >> > > I'd hazard a guess that in the process of researching costumes and the > background information the goes with them there are a lot of things > that people find that they don't understand. Sometimes it relates to > the construction of the garment (as the current thread on Tudor > pleating shows) other times it's more of a what is a such-and-such. > > >>I've been on the list almost ten years now, and I am still regularly >> > amazed > >>how much that pops up. that, more than any flaming that has ever >> > happened, > >>is the only thing that's made me want to leave. I just kind of >> > shake my > >>head and go "that again?" and delete the next 100 - 150 messages >> > from the list. > > As I'm sure happens when the discussion involves the minutae of 17th > century panniers if you have no interest in that area. Or the dyeing > of fabrics... > > >>But, it's a discussion list, and I guess that's what we like to >> > discuss. > > Yup. > > >>*ducking before she gets flamed* >> > > Nah. > > Baralier > -- > Good planning and organisation are just crutches for people who can't > handle stress and caffeine. > http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder > Costumier & Reprobate > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 00:16:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12218 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 00:16:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB85G1l9026796; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB85G0ud001136; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB85FZud001055 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:15:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a225.in-tch.com [66.62.107.25]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB84xYD14632 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:59:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DF2D58B.964F50CC@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question. References: <05e601c29da9$988a27a0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> <3DF20AF7.8CE407E9@in-tch.com> <018301c29e64$1a1b9a50$6401a8c0@VALINOR> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:15:55 -0700 Status: RO Hi, Maral.... Sorry, but the ones I was thinking of, Nicole already beat me to them. So if you caught her post with the links, that's what I was thinking of, too. I guess great minds think alike, huh Nicole? Even if they're oh....7,000 miles apart? ) --sue Herself-the-Elf wrote: > > Ooh, that might be useful indeed. Wow, thanks for all the suggestions > everybody! ^_^ > > -- Maral > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question. > > > Hi, Maral. I remember your question from the first time you posted, but > > didn't have anything that could help you, since I'm pretty ignorant of > > Moorish cultures. > > It occurs to me, though, that I've seen some stuff on Andalusian Spain, > > which had a good mix of Christian and Muslim cultural influences. I > > could dig that up, if you like? > > --Sue "not a lurker" Clemenger....;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 00:28:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12241 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 00:28:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB85S2l9027086; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB85S1ud003738; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB85Rsud003679 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:27:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a225.in-tch.com [66.62.107.25]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB85BrD18211 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:11:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DF2D86E.F5F382C5@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question References: <3DF068C3.2207.2C2B7CBF@localhost> <3DF24978.8140.3381891E@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:28:14 -0700 Status: RO Hmmmm....the way I'm understanding T's explanation, it sounds like T's using "top" to mean the pleats on the outer edge of the skirt, and "bottom" to mean the pleats on the inner edge of the skirt. So, "sewn from the top" pleats would mean that the little ledge produced by the cartridge pleats would be towards the inside, hence not visible..... | | | XX X X (the dashes being the bodice, and the X's the skirt, with the outside of the garment to the left). And "sewing from the bottom" would put the little shelf to the outside of the garment, like this: | | | | XX X X Of course, sewing both "top" and "bottom" would give you: | | | | XX| X X This last tends to make the whole skirt stand out from the body a little. I think it looks the neatest, but it *is* more work, and may not give exactly the look you're after. Sorry for the bad ASCII art.... --Sue's 2 euro-worth on a foggy Saturday night, when she *should* be in the living room, sewing....;-P kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > T > > >Also, many people think that cartridge pleats are only sewn on one > > >edge (the top.) It really depends on the look one is going for. If > > >you want them to hang down, you sew them only at the top. If you want > > > to them to stand out some, you sew them at the top and bottom of the > > > pleat. > > > > Actually, if you want them to hang straight down, you sew them at the > > *bottom* of the pleat. You're then left with the pleated section > > jutting out like a little shelf, a look some people like but I can't > > stand. > > You are making me wish we had a better way of exchanging drawings as > we may be saying the same thing! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 01:16:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12366 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 01:16:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86F5l9028332; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86F2ud012965; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86EHud012832 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp245.directcon.net [206.170.184.245] (may be forged)) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gB86BcEp004608; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:11:39 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021207221543.00dc7c90@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coifs and me In-Reply-To: <00ab01c29e0d$afa9cee0$b65722d9@dan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:15:43 -0800 Status: RO >Are there any particular items of costume -as opposed to entire >ensembles- which people think are hideously unflattering on them, or >indeed others? > Unfortunately for me, considering my specialty, I look hideous in an Elizabethan closed ruff. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 01:19:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12375 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 01:19:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86I1l9028445; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86I1ud013648; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86Hdud013562 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:17:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp245.directcon.net [206.170.184.245] (may be forged)) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gB86GbEp005892; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:16:38 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021207222043.00d9c140@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] stays for a large person In-Reply-To: <002101c29e31$47c564a0$b65722d9@dan> References: <000701c29e16$37641450$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <00e201c29e21$c4aa4e00$b65722d9@dan> <001701c29e2a$6b6b3bc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:20:43 -0800 Status: RO >It's a good word; I commend to you also 'statuesque' and, in the case >of a short large lady, 'pocket Venus'. > I personally like to use the term "Sumptuous". Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 01:23:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12389 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 01:22:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86M1l9028566; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86M0ud014602; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86Lfud014555 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:21:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp245.directcon.net [206.170.184.245] (may be forged)) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gB86LLEp006828; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:21:22 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021207222526.00da2c80@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic/ paper clay In-Reply-To: <001901c29e43$10f60030$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:25:26 -0800 Status: RO At 11:50 PM 12/07/2002 +0100, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hello. >I have just ben surfing a little on the internet and found some amzing dolls >made of paper clay. >Are there anyone here, who knows this? >Is it good to work with? > >Bjarne who is a little scared, i might find yeat another thing to >do.............. > Bad news, Bjarne, you've got another hobby on the way! I've made a few dolls with paper clay and I found it really easy to work with. It's basically a very fine grained paper maiche. By wetting it or letting it get mostly dry, you can work with it in any state from almost liquid to leather like. It air drys and after it's dry you can carve and sand it for even more detail. Have fun! Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 01:33:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12429 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 01:33:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86X3l9028761; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86X1ud016689; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86WMud016580 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:32:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp245.directcon.net [206.170.184.245] (may be forged)) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gB86W4Ep008640; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:32:05 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021207223610.00d9e1d0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question In-Reply-To: <3DF24978.8140.3381891E@localhost> References: <3.0.6.32.20021206093558.00d9bc60@pop.directcon.net> <3DF068C3.2207.2C2B7CBF@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:36:10 -0800 Status: RO At 07:18 PM 12/07/2002 -0800, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: >T >> >Also, many people think that cartridge pleats are only sewn on one >> >edge (the top.) It really depends on the look one is going for. If >> >you want them to hang down, you sew them only at the top. If you want >> > to them to stand out some, you sew them at the top and bottom of the >> > pleat. >> >> Actually, if you want them to hang straight down, you sew them at the >> *bottom* of the pleat. You're then left with the pleated section >> jutting out like a little shelf, a look some people like but I can't >> stand. > >You are making me wish we had a better way of exchanging drawings as >we may be saying the same thing! > Oh, me too! I can't wait for email sketchpads! When I'm talking about the shelf effect, I don't mean the spring out from the waist you get when you sew both the top and bottom of the pleats to the waistband. That's lovely, and can give the same effect of a bumroll without having to wear one, if the pleats are stiff enough. I jsut don't have enough room in my waist area for it to work for me. What I'm talking about being ugly is when just the bottoms of the pleats are sewn to the edge of the waisband or yolk or whatever, and the folded edge of the pleated section sticks out, bleah. You don't see it much, thank goodness. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 01:40:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12458 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 01:40:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86d2l9028945; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86d1ud017711; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86cEud017539 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:38:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp245.directcon.net [206.170.184.245] (may be forged)) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gB86bNEp009512; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:37:24 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021207224129.00da89d0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: [h-cost] Peculiar Combination In-Reply-To: <3DF13717.4050607@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:41:29 -0800 Status: RO I just got back from a trip to the Bay Area, and I saw the most peculiar thing. On University Avenue in Berkeley, there are a number of stores that sell saris, shalwar kameeez, etc. One of them had a sign in the window that said, "Japanese Sari and Custom Tailoring". What the heck? Can anyone tell me what a "japanese sari could possibly be? I'm baffled. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 01:40:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12463 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 01:40:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86dAl9028958; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:39:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86d9ud017748; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:39:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB86cFud017551 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:38:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp245.directcon.net [206.170.184.245] (may be forged)) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gB86bNEp009512; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:37:24 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021207224129.00da89d0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: [h-cost] Peculiar Combination In-Reply-To: <3DF13717.4050607@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:41:29 -0800 Status: RO I just got back from a trip to the Bay Area, and I saw the most peculiar thing. On University Avenue in Berkeley, there are a number of stores that sell saris, shalwar kameeez, etc. One of them had a sign in the window that said, "Japanese Sari and Custom Tailoring". What the heck? Can anyone tell me what a "japanese sari could possibly be? I'm baffled. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 03:30:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12900 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 03:30:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB88T7l9001887; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 01:29:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB88T0ud008174; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 01:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB88SOud008080 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 01:28:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021208082823.QFHQ2181.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 08:28:23 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Message-ID: <3DF302A5.3273.3608C2E1@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3DF2ABA5.31B612E@lavoltapress.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 08:28:21 -0000 Status: RO On 7 Dec 2002 at 18:17, Lavolta Press wrote: > Actually, that quote below is from someone else's message. I didn't > write it. Whoops, sorry. It's been one of those weeks :( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 04:08:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13299 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 04:08:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8972l9002491; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8970ud014477; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB896Zud014426 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:06:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AB9BC6F1026C; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 03:06:35 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB9C29801D2; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 03:06:36 -0600 Message-ID: <00f601c29e99$21750fe0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <004c01c29d99$86cf87e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> <00b301c29dc4$8f541b80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <001f01c29df7$54d4a460$705183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Designers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C29E6F.37EF8E00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 04:06:43 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C29E6F.37EF8E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathleen, I have just started on the bios. I appreciate you volunteering. I have to locate my list again... it is in this office somewhere. Some of the designers I can find plenty of illustrations but have never seen written word about them other than the illustration caption. When you get started in January write me and I will have located the list by then. One of the reasons for this project is that most people know who the big designers for certain periods are, but forget who the less known designers were. These little designers also made an important contribution to the industry. I just find it so sad that these designers were in international publications every month. Over the years, time forgets them. One real puzzle to me is I have a lot of renderings of designs by Madeleine. I suspect this is Vionnet in her early years, but I have not found documentation that her house was named this from 1920-1925. And I have not found text documentation of a fashion house of Madeleine. I have a 1922 NYC reproduction designer client book with 33 large plates of Parisian designs. There are some of Madaleine's designs. So I know she must have been an important designer. BTW, this book is wonderful!!!! Each plate is a single heavy cardboard-like material. I couldn't believe I found this. If you like Erte, you might want to see if you can find this book on eBay, Art Deco Fashion by Martin Battersby. Somehow I got a signed copy. There are wonderful plates in it from 1908 through the 20s. Some of the plates are from Bon Ton Ton, an art publication. I searched for these plates on eBay and the lowest price I found was $75. Out of my price range for fashion plates. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C29E6F.37EF8E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kathleen,
 
I have just started on the bios.  I appreciate you = volunteering. =20 I have to locate my list again... it is in this office somewhere.  = Some of=20 the designers I can find plenty of illustrations but have never seen = written=20 word about them other than the illustration caption.  When you get = started=20 in January write me and I will have located the list by then.
 
One of the reasons for this project is that most people know who = the big=20 designers for certain periods are, but forget who the less = known designers=20 were.  These little designers also made an important contribution = to the=20 industry.  I just find it so sad that these designers were in = international=20 publications every month.  Over the years, time forgets them.  =
 
One real puzzle to me is I have a lot of renderings of designs by=20 Madeleine.  I suspect this is Vionnet in her early years, but I = have not=20 found documentation that her house was named this from 1920-1925.  = And I=20 have not found text documentation of a fashion house of Madeleine.  = I have=20 a 1922 NYC  reproduction designer client book with 33 large = plates of=20 Parisian designs.  There are some of Madaleine's designs.  So = I know=20 she must have been an important designer.  BTW, this book is=20 wonderful!!!! Each plate is a single heavy cardboard-like=20 material.  I couldn't believe I found this.
 
If you like Erte, you might want to see if you can find this book = on eBay,=20 Art Deco Fashion by Martin Battersby.  Somehow I got a signed = copy. =20 There are wonderful plates in it from 1908 through the 20s.  Some = of the=20 plates are from Bon Ton Ton, an art publication.  I searched for = these=20 plates on eBay and the lowest price I found was $75.  Out of my = price range=20 for fashion plates.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
 
------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C29E6F.37EF8E00-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 04:17:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13326 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 04:17:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB89H1l9002654; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB89H0ud016071; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB89GEud015974 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:16:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id ADDDCBA6026C; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 03:16:13 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ADDE1267010C; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 03:16:14 -0600 Message-ID: <010401c29e9a$7a282a40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <004c01c29d99$86cf87e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> <002f01c29e3b$1d9f3f70$045d7843@angelap3a8d978> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite Designers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0100_01C29E70.90ED6D00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 04:16:22 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0100_01C29E70.90ED6D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angela, I am so bad with names of present day designers. I keep seeing shows on Style TV with these two guys who are designing bridal gowns that are vintage inspired. The beadwork is outstanding!!!! Of present day designers, I really like Valentino for women and Armini for men! You can't beat a man in an Armini suit!!!!! Droll!!! Well, actually I have been following these two designers for a few decades. I also like Bill Blass and Ralph Lauren for menswear... so classy! Can you tell I sold menswear for years? My husband and I spend too much time watching Style TV. We can watch the runway shows for hours. We both love to critique the collections. One day I am going to make it to that NY University Symposium with the top designers! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ------=_NextPart_000_0100_01C29E70.90ED6D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Angela,
 
I am so bad with names of present day designers.  I keep = seeing=20 shows on Style TV with these two guys who are designing bridal gowns = that are=20 vintage inspired.  The beadwork is outstanding!!!!
 
Of present day designers, I really like Valentino for women and = Armini for=20 men!  You can't beat a man in an Armini suit!!!!! = Droll!!! Well,=20 actually I have been following these two designers for a few = decades. =20 I also like Bill Blass and Ralph Lauren for menswear... so classy!  = Can you=20 tell I sold menswear for years?  My husband and I spend too much = time=20 watching Style TV.  We can watch the runway shows for hours.  = We both=20 love to critique the collections.  One day I am going to make it to = that NY=20 University Symposium with the top designers!
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
 
------=_NextPart_000_0100_01C29E70.90ED6D00-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 04:18:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13330 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 04:18:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB89I1l9002692; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB89I0ud016277; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB89HMud016149 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:17:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from p628-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.120] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18KxYu-0005yG-00; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 22:17:21 +1300 Message-ID: <000f01c29e9a$9bcb7670$78c2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <3.0.6.32.20021207224129.00da89d0@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Peculiar Combination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:17:18 +1300 Status: RO > I just got back from a trip to the Bay Area, and I saw the most peculiar > thing. On University Avenue in Berkeley, there are a number of stores that > sell saris, shalwar kameeez, etc. One of them had a sign in the window > that said, "Japanese Sari and Custom Tailoring". What the heck? Can > anyone tell me what a "japanese sari could possibly be? I'm baffled. Not sure but I do know when I went saree shopping a lot of fabrics were woven in Japan. That could possibly be something to do with it? Particularly fine silk and the prints were very ... blossomy I suppose, little round petals and quite different to the patterns I've got in my collection of second hand ones. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 07:10:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14360 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:10:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8C96l9006392; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 05:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8C91ud013024; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 05:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB8C8Dud012863 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 05:08:14 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021208120813.970.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 12:08:13 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question. To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DF2D58B.964F50CC@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:08:13 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Hi, Maral.... > I guess great minds think alike, huh Nicole? Even if they're oh....7,000 > miles apart? ) *grins* oh yes! But they also say 'fools seldom differ'. *winks* *hugs Sue aaaaaaaaall over the pond and landmass* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 07:39:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14439 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:39:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8Cd7l9006947; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 05:39:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8Cd1ud018361; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 05:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB8Ccuud018343 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 05:38:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021208123856.46203.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 12:38:56 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Baralier's web site, was Re: [h-cost] OT, but NOT a food question. To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <013a01c29e72$e6b6df80$18a231d2@valadan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:38:56 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Baralier wrote: > > > As I'm sure happens when the discussion involves the minutae of 17th > century panniers if you have no interest in that area. Or the dyeing > of fabrics... *winks* 18th century, 18th... Anyway, I have been spending some time looking through your web site, when taht was suggested (hadn't seen your link in the first place) and I am enjoying myself immensely. GREAT photos of SUPER costumes! May I plug your site? http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder/ It did crash my Netscape 7 and Internet Explorer, but works fine on Netscape 4.7. Go figure *G* Nicole - who was a Goth herself once upon a time from 17 onwards but kinda stopped at 20 coz of realising that she loved the colours and clothes, but was bored by the philosophy behind it. Whoops. :-) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 08:14:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14531 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 08:14:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8DD4l9007803; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 06:13:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8DD1ud024429; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 06:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8DCcud024350 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 06:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-13-147.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.13.147] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18L1Eb-00042P-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 13:12:37 +0000 Message-ID: <002501c29ebc$078b38c0$930d23d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <7F170921.34AC662E.00862037@aol.com> <3DF181C4.FDD17762@lavoltapress.com> <3DF2356B.21BC81C6@in-tch.com> <004601c29e3f$51e537e0$b65722d9@dan> <3DF282B2.D11E664C@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 13:16:33 -0000 Status: RO Fran wrote, in response to my note:: > > I don't think you have to apologise either. People lurking on this > > list don't want to be told that a nice little polycotton mix will > > perfectly reproduce the handkerchief linen chemise they would like to > > have; they know perfectly well that it won't. Or at least they will > > know within 30 seconds of putting it on; there's a very large > > distinction between 'lurking' and 'stupid'. They want to learn. You > > can only learn by working at it, and sometimes that's hard. But > > putting vast amounts of time, energy and money into an ensemble which > > looks dreadful is a lot harder. > But not everyone considers a poly-cotton chemise to be a waste of time > and money. I didn't say that they did. >It suits some people perfectly well--not because they're > ignorant, but because it fulfils their goals. Again, I didn't suggest that they were ignorant. >Whether it fulfils the > goals of some other person who is not wearing it and does not officially > set goals for some organization they both belong to, is entirely beside > the point. Since I didn't suggest that it was to the point I'm puzzled as to why you are addressing this to me. > Others would like to have the 100% linen but can't afford it. They don't > want to be told they are ignorant, that they "ought to" afford linen, > etc. Again, I didn't suggest any of those things. > If someone's outfit fulfils the goals _officially_ set by their > organization or employer, and it fulfils their own goals in terms of > what they want to wear, what they can afford, what they are able to make, > etc.--it is never a waste of time and money. Again, I didn't suggest this not to be the case. >There is no reason to throw > something out just because of freelance criticism, on the net or > elsewhere. I entirely agree, not least because I don't have the sort of income which allows me to throw things out willy-nilly. But even if I did have the money, I would regard doing so as symbolic of a culture which trashes our planet and all the species we co-exist with here, and I don't want to be like that. > My point is that everyone, when posting, should consider that h-costume > has members with many different costuming goals. Others may not have the > same goals you do, but their goals are still valid for them. > Indeed so. I would suggest to you, however, that if you write lengthy posts setting up strawman targets which you then demolish, then you run the risk of people concluding that you don't have any real arguments. Or wondering what your goals are. Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 09:21:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14840 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:21:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8EK3l9010081; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8EK1ud016920; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8EJDud016766 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:19:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18L2H3-00044O-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 06:19:13 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] off topic/ paper clay Message-ID: <000f01c29ec4$d336ae70$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20021207222526.00da2c80@pop.directcon.net> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:19:31 -0700 Status: RO Oh Bjarne you are in trouble!! You simply must ask for these books for Christmas from your honey. I do soft sculpture too, though I haven't done a lot in paper clay-it is lovely stuff. I have done sculpting in regular clay too, it just does not compare to the paper clay. If you decide to get into it, look for the paper clay La Doll. Oh I am so excited to have someone else (especially you!) interested!! Anatomy of a Doll: The Fabric Sculptor's Handbook -- by Susanna Oroyan, et al; Paperback Buy new: $18.87 -- Used & new from: $14.85 2. Fantastic Figures: Ideas & Techniques Using the New Clays -- by Susanna Oroyan; Paperback Buy new: $16.07 -- Used & new from: $12.74 3. Finishing the Figure: Doll Costuming, Embellishments, Accessories -- by Susanna Oroyan; Paperback Buy new: $20.97 -- Used & new from: $18.98 Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Margo Anderson >Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 11:25 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com; h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic/ paper clay > >At 11:50 PM 12/07/2002 +0100, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >>Hello. >>I have just ben surfing a little on the internet and found some amzing dolls >>made of paper clay. >>Are there anyone here, who knows this? >>Is it good to work with? >> >>Bjarne who is a little scared, i might find yeat another thing to >>do.............. >> > >Bad news, Bjarne, you've got another hobby on the way! I've made a few >dolls with paper clay and I found it really easy to work with. It's >basically a very fine grained paper maiche. By wetting it or letting it >get mostly dry, you can work with it in any state from almost liquid to >leather like. It air drys and after it's dry you can carve and sand it for >even more detail. > >Have fun! > >Margo >"One Tough Costumer" > > >See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at >margospatterns.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 09:23:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14847 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:23:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8EN1l9010178; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8EN0ud017662; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8EMDud017536 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18L2Jw-0006Ki-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 06:22:12 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: Exchanging files etc-wasRE: [h-cost] Tudor question Message-ID: <001001c29ec5$3e2f5330$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <3DF24978.8140.3381891E@localhost> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:22:30 -0700 Status: RO >You are making me wish we had a better way of exchanging drawings as >we may be saying the same thing! I was just thinking the same thing. I guess there is nothing that prevents us from starting an H-Cost group on Yahoo or some other host just to take advantage of the file exchange stuff. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 09:41:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14892 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:41:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8Eepl9010746; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:40:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8Eeoud020968; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:40:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8EbLud020243 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:37:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18L2Ya-000487-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 06:37:21 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] next years projekts. Message-ID: <000001c29ec7$5ba00750$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200212072313.12486.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 07:37:38 -0700 Status: RO Finish the linen outfit with the shoulder rolls-gosh all I have left is the trim and hem on the outer skirt! But all the fun stuff is done-I am bored with it now. Do more research on some off-beat country and period that no one else is doing. Loose gown and coat-Elizabethan. Figure out how to make those funky Swiss Headdresses, Oh and the big 'round' German Headdresses too. Lose 20 pounds so I can wear my costumes comfortably! Write up instructions on organ pipe pleats and cartridge pleats and post it somewhere so we can quit talking about it!!! :) What a great topic. We should check back next year and see how well we do :) Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 11:02:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19205 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 11:02:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8G13l9014946; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8G11ud010790; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB8G09ud010579 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:00:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021208160009.69267.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 16:00:09 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] next years projects. To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:00:09 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO I LOVED reading everyone's projects, now here goes, my far too optimistic list, and I'm the world's slowest sewer. ;-) In no prticular order other than what comes to mind: - second gentleman's fine linen and lace shirt for Ben, bought 20 meters of different qualities of linen at the market. - new scarlet silk and silver tassel fringe Officer's sash for Ben, have the silk, have the silver fringe, was too bored to make it yet. - dark blue worsted wool lined with scarlet wool 1660s Officer's coat for Ben, with silver lacing. All the material is already at home. - worsted circular cloak for the 1660s and 70s, not sure about colour yet. (now that I have him out of the way) - lower class 1700 dark green wool bodice. I got the leather stays to go underneath at the re-enactor's market last month. - diverse linen coifs for different decades and levels of society. Toiles are cut out already. - dark red silk split petticoat, to go with the dark red 1660s bodice that Bjarne made me, to be worn over an ivory silk petticoat, thus I already have the fabric, it will be lined with the ivory silk from below. - new ivory silk and gold laced petticoat because the stupid thing got totally ruined at a re-enactment this year. ARGH! Mud is NOT good.... must get new silk from Whaley's and use this one as lining. (now ontowards fantasy costumes) - the Queen of Shadows black Elizabethan dress from Margo's patterns. - the Eowyn white Pre-raphaelite dress, arms and armour either borrowed from ben or Colin or made for me as prezzies from Ben. - the Knight of Shadows/guard of the Queen Byzantine style tunics/cloak for Ben to go with my Queen. (last but not least some mundane clothing) - Folkwear poet's shirt, already cut out of a lovely ribbed glazed cotton. - machine blackwork embroidered ivory glazed cotton shirt, already cut out, partly assembled and mostly embroidered. - kind-of-1700 coat/waistcoat, totally inauthentic because of being assembled from different decades, pattern by Sarah Thursfield custom pattern maker, made out of the remains of the black and silver brocade my mantua is made of, lined with scarlet silk, as my wedding outfit for my best friend's wedding! and most important of the whole lot: - white linen and fine lace baby bonnet, inspired by 18th century ones, for my godchild-to-be for (her, oh yes, it appears to be a 'her', a little Elizabeth! so the last scan said, yippieh!) the christening. - baby blanket in purple or dark red soft fleece with golden stars. - soft baby toys, Saragrace sent me some great links. To sum it all up: I will NEVER finish all of the above, but a girl can dream and have plans :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 11:02:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19209 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 11:02:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8G23l9015032; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8G22ud011046; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.hosting4u.net (janus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB8G1dud010948 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:01:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 22677 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 16:01:39 -0000 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (209.15.2.27) by mail-gate.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 16:01:39 -0000 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.42.67]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 10:01:37 -0600 From: "Allison Thurman" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_043E_01C29EA9.2B6FE410" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Sharing images/sketches Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 11:01:31 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_043E_01C29EA9.2B6FE410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've read the recent laments re: lack of image transfer on h-costume, and I have a few ideas: 1) Doesn't H-costume have a website? If so, could images be submitted for posting here, and a link provided to them? 2) Yahoo (yes, I know - lousy privacy issues - but bear with me) - you can start a Group or Photo Album for the express purpose of posting/sharing sketches and photos. Yahoo provides a lot of free disc space and if compressed well images do not take up much space so they could be left indefinitely. Thoughts? Allison ------=_NextPart_000_043E_01C29EA9.2B6FE410 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sharing images/sketches

I've read the recent laments re: lack of image = transfer on h-costume, and I have a few ideas:

1) Doesn't H-costume have a website? If so, could = images be submitted for posting here, and a link provided to = them?

2) Yahoo (yes, I know - lousy privacy issues - but = bear with me) - you can start a Group or Photo Album for the express = purpose of posting/sharing sketches and photos. Yahoo provides a lot of = free disc space and if compressed well images do not take up much space = so they could be left indefinitely.

Thoughts?

Allison

------=_NextPart_000_043E_01C29EA9.2B6FE410-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 11:18:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19248 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 11:18:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8GI1l9015831; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8GI0ud015025; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8GHCud014824 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:17:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip17.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.17]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB8GH6Z13197 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 08:17:06 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Exchanging files etc-wasRE: [h-cost] Tudor question Message-ID: <3DF2FE26.14282.36436BBE@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001001c29ec5$3e2f5330$6601a8c0@mycomputer> References: <3DF24978.8140.3381891E@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 08:09:10 -0800 Status: RO > >You are making me wish we had a better way of exchanging drawings as > >we may be saying the same thing! > > I was just thinking the same thing. I guess there is nothing that > prevents us from starting an H-Cost group on Yahoo or some other host > just to take advantage of the file exchange stuff. Nothing except for people like me who can't do their on-line stuff. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 12:04:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19457 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:04:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8H45l9018096; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:04:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8H41ud025943; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB8H3iud025853 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:03:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWqSFUPy2BIublG+EuMVfIytjKzky7+zaBw=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKH8PE9C; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 12:03:34 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how many of us are there? Message-ID: <20021208.120230.-152767.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,14-15,19-21 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 11:59:15 -0500 Status: RO <<>> Ok, from someone who would love to be totally authentic but finances get in the way. I have owned some really good handkerchief linen in my past and quite honestly, cotton batiste is a decent substitute. Poly cotton batiste will look just as good, but it sure won't feel it. Linen is wonderful next to the skin. It is cool and it breathes and it wicks the sweat away. Cotton is fairly cool and it breathes and it holds the dampness like a sponge. Poly cotton is warm when you put it on, breathes little and will be sticky and uncomfortable in short order in hot weather. From the viewpoint of an observer they will all pass the ten foot test, but from the viewpoint of the wearer they are very, very different. By the way, the chemise I just made is cotton because I can't even find decent handkerchief linen and couldn't afford it if I could. I am talking about really nice tight weave sheer handkerchief linen, not the coarse, loose weave stuff they call handkerchief linen most places. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 12:06:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19478 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:06:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8H5Al9018127; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:05:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8H55ud026190; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:05:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB8H3iud025854 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:03:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWqSFUPy2BIublG+EuMVfIyuYla2IMEcEEA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKH8PE9E; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 12:03:34 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] next years projekts. Message-ID: <20021208.120230.-152767.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:02:29 -0500 Status: RO My pink polished cotton Tudor is almost done. I have the silk dupioni, velvet, silk satin, and metallic gold lace to do it right. Next year I will be working on the Queen Mary gown in proper fabrics!!!! Yea Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 12:08:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19489 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:08:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8H7Ml9018347; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:07:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8H76ud026819; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:07:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail7.kc.rr.com (fe7.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.162.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8H4Iud025991 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:04:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis ([65.26.140.179]) by mail7.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:52:14 -0600 From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Peculiar Combination Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20021207224129.00da89d0@pop.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:01:02 -0600 Status: RO Could be a cross-language boo-boo. Perhaps it was meant to say something like "Japanese (clothing), Saris, and Custom Tailoring"? T. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 12:41 AM To: h-costume@indra.com; h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Peculiar Combination I just got back from a trip to the Bay Area, and I saw the most peculiar thing. On University Avenue in Berkeley, there are a number of stores that sell saris, shalwar kameeez, etc. One of them had a sign in the window that said, "Japanese Sari and Custom Tailoring". What the heck? Can anyone tell me what a "japanese sari could possibly be? I'm baffled. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 12:24:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19570 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:24:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8HO2l9018970; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8HO1ud000934; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB8HNZud000815 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26190 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 17:23:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.228) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 17:23:32 -0000 Message-ID: <3DF37FF9.D8C150B1@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question References: <3.0.6.32.20021206093558.00d9bc60@pop.directcon.net> <3DF068C3.2207.2C2B7CBF@localhost> <3.0.6.32.20021207223610.00d9e1d0@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 12:23:05 -0500 Status: RO Margo Anderson wrote: > > When I'm talking about the shelf effect, I don't mean the spring out from > the waist you get when you sew both the top and bottom of the pleats to the > waistband. That's lovely, and can give the same effect of a bumroll > without having to wear one, if the pleats are stiff enough. I jsut don't > have enough room in my waist area for it to work for me. What I'm talking > about being ugly is when just the bottoms of the pleats are sewn to the > edge of the waisband or yolk or whatever, and the folded edge of the > pleated section sticks out, bleah. You don't see it much, thank goodness. > In a panic here. Can you or did you see that on mine on your site? It would be easy to redo if I have that on my two gowns. I learn more and more each day. If you can see that on my skirts show me please. Diana C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 12:32:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19625 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:32:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8HW3l9019279; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8HW1ud002676; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8HVPud002510 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:31:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a259.in-tch.com [66.62.107.59]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gB8HFMD14874 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:15:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DF38203.DCB6684D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor question References: <3.0.6.32.20021206093558.00d9bc60@pop.directcon.net> <3DF068C3.2207.2C2B7CBF@localhost> <3.0.6.32.20021207223610.00d9e1d0@pop.directcon.net> <3DF37FF9.D8C150B1@inetone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 10:31:47 -0700 Status: RO Hey, Dhannti....what's the addy for your website? --sue Dhannti wrote: > > Margo Anderson wrote: > > > > > When I'm talking about the shelf effect, I don't mean the spring out from > > the waist you get when you sew both the top and bottom of the pleats to the > > waistband. That's lovely, and can give the same effect of a bumroll > > without having to wear one, if the pleats are stiff enough. I jsut don't > > have enough room in my waist area for it to work for me. What I'm talking > > about being ugly is when just the bottoms of the pleats are sewn to the > > edge of the waisband or yolk or whatever, and the folded edge of the > > pleated section sticks out, bleah. You don't see it much, thank goodness. > > > > In a panic here. Can you or did you see that on mine on your site? It > would be easy to redo if I have that on my two gowns. I learn more and > more each day. If you can see that on my skirts show me please. > > Diana C. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Dec 8 12:39:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19671 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:39:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8Hd3l9019976; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB8Hd0rL004264; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gB8Hc9ud004007 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:38:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWqSFUPy2BIub1nOY5GB7ZAhIAfy77E3R4A=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HKJAMEKA; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 12:37:25 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021208.123534.-152767.4.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_332c.6ae9.1544 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,8-10,11-32767 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Subject: [h-cost] LOTR Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:35:34 -0500 Status: RO