From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 31 19:28:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j310SsS4010035 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:28:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j310RhLV001217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:27:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j310Rckj066935; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:27:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.134]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j310RZwT066823 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:27:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bella_lucia_da_verona@yahoo.com.au) Received: (qmail 75013 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Apr 2005 00:27:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20050401002730.75011.qmail@web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.23.152.26] by web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:27:30 EST Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:27:30 +1000 (EST) From: Bella Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mind Your Manners! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, could someone please re-post the link to the 'Mind Your Manners' game? I thought I'd bookmarked it, but I find I was wrong. :-) I didn't get a chance to try it out and now I've even forgotten what museum it was located at. I only remember that it was a Canadian museum. Thanks! Bella Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 31 20:05:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3115vxV010274 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:05:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3114oLV004928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:04:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3114jiV096012; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:04:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3114hPI095934 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:04:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D763FE34 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:04:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id C47223976; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:04:38 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:04:38 -0800 (PST) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: [Authentic_SCA] a litlle OT: Lessons from Sewing (humor) X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.136] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCTJ4mAAlACwEAAAAB,4782e96be9a6f35d64389bf32f189994 Message-Id: <20050401010438.C47223976@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh YES!!! Those are absolutely true. Thanks! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Elizabeth Walpole" wrote: From: "Elizabeth Walpole" Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:04:39 +1000 To: "historic costume" , "Garb list" Subject: [h-cost] Fw: [Authentic_SCA] a litlle OT: Lessons from Sewing (humor) _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 31 20:21:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j311L0kc010330 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:21:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j311JtLV006141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:19:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j311JdDG007283; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:19:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j311JbS5007205 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:19:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m215.in-tch.com [216.166.191.215]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j311Fco19432 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:15:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <424CA2ED.5020307@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:25:01 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Use of "Reenactor"--slightly OT References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey! I resemble that description, except for the snobbish part! Even if I never thought of myself as a reenactor in any sense, given the whole structural looseness of my experiences in the SCA (and lack of opportunity to do other historical time periods, etc.). I got to learn to spin flax last summer, and it's lots of fun. Bummer that I don't have any way to grow my own as well! --sue, actually spinning her own thread and making her own fabric for an early-period SCA outfit...say, 10th c. or so (well, slowly, but it *is* being done on a drop spindle) Chris Laning wrote: > That's the trouble, of course -- so many people use it to mean > completely different things. > > If, for instance, your concept of a "re-enactor" is "a snobbish and > overly picky person who obsesses about the spin direction and fiber > length of the linen thread used to stitch seams no one will ever see", > then obviously you're probably going to consider it unflattering . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 31 20:30:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j311UwFq010351 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:30:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j311TtLV006816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:29:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j311Todg014368; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:29:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j311Tmpk014349 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:29:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m215.in-tch.com [216.166.191.215]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j311Pqo21511 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:25:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <424CA553.1010507@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:35:15 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bleach experiment, Elizabethan smock References: <200503311627.j2VGQURY007858@net.indra.com> <8C70456CB02B4AB-B40-5C46@mblk-r12.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C70456CB02B4AB-B40-5C46@mblk-r12.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can agree with that, with some certainty. ;-) My hips/tummy weren't an issue, but my bust sure was! I needed so much extra room for the girls that my mockup ended with the "shoulder" seam at my elbows! What I ended up doing to fix it was look at all the extant shifts I could find from the St. Louis shirt forward into the 18th c. I found a couple of examples (mostly later) that showed a distinct, but subtle narrowing of the fabric just at the shoulders, so that's what I did. I marked the shoulder line on my body-rectangle, marked where my bust was (the point where I needed the full width available), and removed narrow wedges of fabric so that I essentially had two trapezoids, joined at the narrow ends (my shoulders). Other than that, I followed instructions as requested, and the shift turned out just fine. The fabric missing in the shoulder area isn't even visually noticeable when I'm wearing it. I don't recall for certain, but I may have had to readjust the sleeve length a bit to make them a little longer, but that was about it. --sue tearoses@aol.com wrote: > Judy -- I believe there is a note somewhere on Drea's site that the > smock generator can produce some weird results for those of us with > more ::ahem:: womanly proportions. I made one myself last year for > Halloween, and as I recall I had to alter the pattern a bit to make > it approach the proper proportions. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 31 20:33:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j311XNQ3010354 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:33:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j311WNLV007001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:32:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j311WMIn016294; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:32:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j311WK63016133 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:32:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id C77FB1BCA93; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 01:32:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust104.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.104]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B1EEC1BCA74 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 01:32:01 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <09fd01c5365a$c0f538a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bleach experiment, Elizabethan smock Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:33:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If we're talking about my experiment, it was sealed pretty tightly, but probably not completely air-tight. With a cat in the house, there's no way I'm going to leave anything uncovered that I don't want her to A) drink or B) knock over or C) knock over and then drink. The evaporation thing is interesting, though, since over-the-counter bleach is pretty dilute--maybe the actual bleachy part sort of evaporated within the closed system and condensed at the top of the container. -E (long time since I took them thar science classes...) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 31 21:46:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j312kG1T010616 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:46:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j312j1LV013378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j312imVj066866; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:44:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j312ikbp066838 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:44:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-47-073.jps.net ([209.165.47.73] helo=[209.165.34.26]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1DHC9J-0001iK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:44:41 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <424C1A03.8080509@earthlink.net> References: <424C1A03.8080509@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:17:14 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Wool denim X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:40 AM -0700 3/31/05, Wicked Frau wrote: >Fashion fabrics club has some interesting wool denim blends. I know >they are not considered "period" (1400-1650). But what exactly is >denim weave? Just curious if it was something that was achievable >during the time and they didn't have it, or??? As others have said, most denim is a simple 2/2 twill. I _think_ (though I'm not sure) that one of the things that makes it specifically "denim" is that the warp and weft are usually different colors, such as green and white, blue and white, or black and white. (I once found some denim that I didn't realize was actually black and orange till I got it home and saw the edges raveling. From a distance it was just a nice brown!) My copy of Fairchild's dictionary of textiles seems to support this interpretation, too. -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 31 22:49:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j313n53P010913 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:49:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j313lbLV020878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:47:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j313lS79009977; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:47:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j313lPwM009921 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:47:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 6586 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 04:01:52 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:01:52 -0800 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:47:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1575.24.4.69.40.1112327244.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <1c4.254f1f3f.2f7dc6e0@aol.com> References: <1c4.254f1f3f.2f7dc6e0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:47:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sizing up Uniquely You X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello everyone! I bought a Uniquely You dress form and cover when I was several sizes smaller. Now I am a real size 18 (eek!) but the covers only go up to size 14. Has anybody tried to size one up from the 14? Any suggestions? Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 00:06:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3156os9011218 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:06:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3155XLV026235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:05:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3155OTp061052; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:05:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail12.mdx.safepages.com (mail12.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.242]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3154u1G060791 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:05:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 64093B8D5; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 05:04:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust56.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.56]) by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F25EB8D7 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 05:04:48 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <0a0b01c53678$78f0f580$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050401002730.75011.qmail@web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mind Your Manners! Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:05:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bella" > could someone please re-post the link to the 'Mind Your Manners' game? > I thought I'd bookmarked it, but I find I was wrong. :-) www.mccord-museum.qc.ca/en/keys/games/game_0/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 00:10:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j315AtYj011229 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:10:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j315A2LV026684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j315A27R064044; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:10:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j315A0TT063921 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:10:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Theresathreadgi@aol.com) Received: from Theresathreadgi@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r5.33.) id 6.ce.659a1b33 (4222) for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:09:46 -0500 (EST) From: Theresathreadgi@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:09:45 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bleach experiment, Elizabethan smock To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5117 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am a chemistry teacher in real life and chlorine vaporizes fairly quickly, so if the bleach is old this type of stuff doesn't go nearly as well. It's good for laundry but not for tests or experiments. So when doing experiments on fabric use new bleach. theresa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 00:12:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j315CfNj011234 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:12:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j315BkLV026869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:11:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j315Bfdd064988; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:11:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j315BPK3064715 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:11:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from SNSpies@aol.com) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r5.33.) id k.12a.5a4afddb (24895); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:11:01 -0500 (EST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: <12a.5a4afddb.2f7e31e5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:11:01 EST To: tabletweaving@crafter.org, SCA-Card-Weaving@yahoogroups.com, atlantia@atlantia.sca.org, brighthills@yahoogroups.com, sca-laurels@ansteorra.org, h-needlework@ansteorra.org, h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] updated errata for "Ecclesiastical Pomp" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Vastly extended pages of errata for "Ecclesiastical Pomp and Aristocratic Circumstance", mainly containing new information that has come to light since its publication in 2000, are available on my web page. Click on the book cover, then go to the link at the bottom of the page. Nancy <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Nancy Spies Arelate Studio _www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html_ (http://www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html) Ingvild Josefsdatter, OL Bright Hills, Atlantia "But if by a 'Liberal' they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a 'Liberal,' then I'm proud to say I'm a 'Liberal'." John F. Kennedy, 14 Sept 1960 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 00:37:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j315bApU011273 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:37:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j315aALV028665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:36:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j315a5SV080230; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:36:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.251]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j315a0qV080198 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:36:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20nh.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.241] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-a065d10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DHEp6-0006RT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:36:00 -0800 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050331225834.02788ec0@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:01:55 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200503311626.j2VGQURX007858@net.indra.com> References: <200503311626.j2VGQURX007858@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Welcome! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:26 AM 3/31/2005, you wrote: Jodi, What Kate said!! FYI, more info about the Costume Con in Ogden, UT is at: www.crossroadsutah.org Info about Costume Cons in general is available at: www.Costume-Con.org Welcome!! Sandy Pettinger >Just wanted to introduce myself to the group. My name is Jodi Nelson and >I have been costuming for 4 years now. I live in St.George, UT. >------------------------------------- >Welcome to the asylum! ;) > >As you are in Utah, will you be attending the fast approaching Costume >Con? I'm not able to attend this year, darn it, but am looking forward >to stories and pictures. > >Kate McClure "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 00:41:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j315fewf011290 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:41:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j315eXLV028993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:40:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j315eXKL083009; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:40:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31506.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31506.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.135]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j315eVGE082928 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:40:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bella_lucia_da_verona@yahoo.com.au) Received: (qmail 28473 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Apr 2005 05:40:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20050401054026.28471.qmail@web31506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.23.152.173] by web31506.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:40:25 EST Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:40:25 +1000 (EST) From: Bella Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mind Your Manners! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you! :-) Bella --- E House wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bella" > > could someone please re-post the link to the 'Mind Your Manners' > game? > > I thought I'd bookmarked it, but I find I was wrong. :-) > > > www.mccord-museum.qc.ca/en/keys/games/game_0/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 08:26:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j31DQSBf014601 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:26:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31DPHLV007484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 06:25:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31DOYJa055021; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 06:24:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav2.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31DOVmc054922 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 06:24:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:33:19 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by BAY106-DAV2.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 00:33:18 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050401002730.75011.qmail@web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mind Your Manners! Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:33:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2005 00:33:19.0223 (UTC) FILETIME=[66F13870:01C53652] X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I didn't get a chance to try it out and now I've even forgotten what > museum it was located at. I only remember that it was a Canadian > museum. I don't have the link anymore, but it was at McCord Museum, should be pretty easy to find with Google. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 08:37:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j31DbXh4014683 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:37:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31DZbLV010442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 06:35:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31DZW58062352; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 06:35:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31DZTGL061842 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 06:35:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j31DYqd24206.; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:34:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:34:52 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:34:47 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mariner's Cuffs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not an expert on this period, but as no-one else seems to have answered... I don't think there is an actual pocket there, if that's what you are suggesting, but yes, I think the flap is stitched to one side of the outer arm seam and the buttons to the other. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> dgandh@t-online.de 31/03/2005 14:39:36 >>> I am trying to figure out how mariner's cuffs work circa 1690-1720. To me it looks like its just a pocket flap that 3-buttons the sleeve closed. Does this go over the seam of the arm though? Like the pocket is on one side and the buttons are on the other? This one is a little later but will give you the idea http://www.nmm.ac.uk/mag/pages/mnuExplore/PaintingDetail.cfm?letter=c&ID=BHC 3017 and http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/CollectionsDetail.cfm?ID=UNI0006&picture=0 The coat I am trying to make is more of a short jacket than a fancy justaucorps in the pictures above... Any suggestions? Thanks Greg www.gentlemenoffortune.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 09:15:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j31EFcbR014902 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:15:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31EEcLV020456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 07:14:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31EEVAG089357; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 07:14:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ultra7.eskimo.com (IDENT:root@ultra7.eskimo.com [204.122.16.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31EETE6089312 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 07:14:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: from [4.249.36.68] (dialup-4.249.36.68.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net [4.249.36.68]) by ultra7.eskimo.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31E5w0J008348 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 06:05:59 -0800 Message-ID: <424D57AB.8060802@oldwaylane.net> Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:16:11 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sizing up Uniquely You References: <1c4.254f1f3f.2f7dc6e0@aol.com> <1575.24.4.69.40.1112327244.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <1575.24.4.69.40.1112327244.squirrel@www.inreach.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Diana Habra wrote: > Hello everyone! > > I bought a Uniquely You dress form and cover when I was several sizes > smaller. Now I am a real size 18 (eek!) but the covers only go up to size > 14. Has anybody tried to size one up from the 14? Any suggestions? Oh yeah, I have. I has a size 18 UY, but I'm bigger than that. If you are really industrious, you could take the cover apart and add in pieces and re-tailor it to fit you the way you are now. You'll still have to pad up the form. What I did, was take upholstery batting (nice big sheets of padding, easy to cut and shape) and wrap it around the form, and add bits of polyfill where it need a touch more. I did this over the cover (rather than re-tailor the cover), and then wrapped around the padding with some old, wide ace bandages to kepp everything in place. It's not perfect, but it's a lot closer. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 10:48:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j31Fmk6b015356 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:48:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31FlVLV000495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31FlIQJ062208; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:47:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from OMC1-S27.phx.gbl (omc1-s27.bay6.hotmail.com [65.54.248.229]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31Fl8GI061897 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:47:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.174.34]) by OMC1-S27.phx.gbl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 07:47:03 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 07:47:02 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.201 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:47:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.201] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "C M" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 01:47:02 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2005 15:47:02.0971 (UTC) FILETIME=[0C7148B0:01C536D2] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] What is the history of denim weave? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, There are a variety of theories about Denim. The most popular seems to be the "Serge de Nimes" theory, which relates to a wool/silk fabric produced in Nimes from the 16th century on and imported into the UK. Since serge is also a twill weave, maybe the name was transferred with the weave, rather than with the material.... "Jeans" comes from the type of fustian (linen warp, cotton weft) woven in Genoa during the 16th century. It was called "jean" or "jeans" (while cloth from Ulm in Germany was called "holmes"). The first jeans were made from this type of cloth, which by the 18th century was made completely out of cotton, but kept the name. Denim Jeans could therefore maybe be translated into "Twill-woven Fustian"...... or today "Cotton twill".... Wool/Cotton blends are actually not modern. There are a variety of fabrics from the 14th century onwards that use cotton and wool in different amounts. The problem today is rather that the fibres are a mix in each thread (warp and weft) and not (like it was then) warp made of one material and weft made of the other. An example would be farsitia, which was made in Florence. So if they can let you know what the go is with those denims, maybe you can use them still, as long as you stay away from the polyester and lyrca ones..... Hope this helps, Caithlinn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 11:39:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j31GdgA9015711 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:39:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31GcBLV009306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:38:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31Gc54a009599; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:38:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m-smtp-1.cdc.gov (smtpgw.cdc.gov [198.246.97.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31GbxF6009366 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:38:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from NBD2@CDC.GOV) Received: from mcdc-us-bis.cdc.gov ([158.111.6.114]) by m-smtp-1.cdc.gov with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id H989SPGD; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:22:38 -0500 Received: from m-ncid-1.NCID.CDC.GOV ([158.111.223.50]) by mcdc-us-bis.cdc.gov with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:21:31 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:22:16 -0500 Message-ID: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF05945699@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: bleaching ecru lace Thread-Index: AcU21vfHEBoOfuXzTZ+YF81d0vGGGA== From: "Ferguson, Natalie" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2005 16:21:31.0999 (UTC) FILETIME=[DDADE6F0:01C536D6] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] bleaching ecru lace X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0600328617==" Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0600328617== content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QSBxdWVzdGlvbiBmcm9tIGx1cmtlciBsYW5kOg0KIA0KSSBoYXZlIGEgbGFyZ2Ugcm9sbCBvZiB3 aWRlIGVjcnUgQ2hhbnRpbGx5ICg/KSBsYWNlOyBJIGFtIGZhaXJseSBzdXJlIGl0J3Mgbm90IG1h ZGUgb2YgYSBuYXR1cmFsIGZpYmVyLiBBbSB3YW50aW5nIHRvIGJsZWFjaCBpdCBpbiBvcmRlciB0 byBtYWtlIGEgdHVybi1vZi10aGUtMjB0aCBjZW50dXJ5IHBlaWdub2lyIGFuZCBuaWdodGRyZXNz LiBCb3RoIGdhcm1lbnRzIHJlcXVpcmUgeWFyZHMgYW5kIHlhcmRzIGFuZCB5YXJkcyBvZiB3aWRl IGxhY2UuDQogDQpJcyBpdCBwb3NzaWJsZSB0byBzYWZlbHkgYmxlYWNoIG1hbm1hZGUgZmliZXJz LCBvciBzaG91bGQgSSB0ZWFzdGFpbiB0aGUgYmF0aXN0ZSB0byBzb3J0LW9mIG1hdGNoIHRoZSBs YWNlPw0KIA0KV2l0aCB0aGFua3MsIGFuZCBJIHN1cmUgZG8gZW5qb3lpbmcgcmVhZGluZyBldmVy eW9uZSdzIHBvc3RzLA0KIA0KTmF0YWxpZSBpbiBLWQ0K --===============0600328617== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --===============0600328617==-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 11:45:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j31GjYTv015742 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:45:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31GicLV010007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:44:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31GiZNk015677; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:44:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31GiWQH015624 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:44:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.187] (p27.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.187]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j31Gfq019583 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:41:53 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF05945699@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov> References: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF05945699@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <5306b8d47eaeebc7a8a64c60e861cf7d@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] bleaching ecru lace Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:52:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If it's poly, bleach won't do any good. If its cotton or rayon, it will take bleach, but all the color may not bleach out. Try a bit and see. Sylrog On Apr 1, 2005, at 9:22 AM, Ferguson, Natalie wrote: > A question from lurker land: > > I have a large roll of wide ecru Chantilly (?) lace; I am fairly sure > it's not made of a natural fiber. Am wanting to bleach it in order to > make a turn-of-the-20th century peignoir and nightdress. Both garments > require yards and yards and yards of wide lace. > > Is it possible to safely bleach manmade fibers, or should I teastain > the batiste to sort-of match the lace? > > With thanks, and I sure do enjoying reading everyone's posts, > > Natalie in KY > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 14:14:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j31JEnYF016524 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:14:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31JDGLV027034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:13:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31JCrqU050560; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:12:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31JCWMc050347 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:12:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31JCSck013334 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:12:28 -0500 X-ORBL: [69.107.32.97] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-32-97.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.32.97]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31JCU5u137468 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:12:31 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050401110433.02617570@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:06:42 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] bleaching ecru lace In-Reply-To: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF05945699@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc .gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have a large roll of wide ecru Chantilly (?) lace; I am fairly sure it's >not made of a natural fiber. Am wanting to bleach it in order to make a >turn-of-the-20th century peignoir and nightdress. Both garments require >yards and yards and yards of wide lace. > >Is it possible to safely bleach manmade fibers, or should I teastain the >batiste to sort-of match the lace? Dye the batiste. Either the bleaching will not work, and you can't tell how well beforehand, or it will damage the lace, and you can't tell how much till it falls apart later, so make the fabric match the lace instead of the other way around. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 14:34:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j31JYQf7016615 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:34:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31JVjLV029718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:31:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31JVZmU067876; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:31:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from courageux.concentric.com (courageux.concentric.com [207.155.248.177]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31JVSaL067765 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:31:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (root@localhost) by courageux.concentric.com id OAA00496; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:31:28 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200504011931.OAA00496@courageux.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:31:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <200504011547.j31FlJhL062212@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j31JVSaL067765 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cotton X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've heard bits here and there that cotton may not be as scarce in Western Europe as we've been led to believe. Any of you learned folks have any knowledge of this? Where were these wool/cotton fabrics found? Thanks Julie ---- wrote: >> Wool/Cotton blends are actually not modern. There are a variety of fabrics > from the 14th century onwards that use cotton and wool in different amounts. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 15:15:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j31KFasD016919 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:15:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31KDwLV004645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:13:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31KDiRD005441; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:13:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j31KDc5N005348 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:13:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i8so842784rne for ; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 12:13:37 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=bVfBiHvMkPcmshCK9scbZg8gxVS3WuAU+oMzNRLl1NMrOHtDq0XqHFnAMhe+IvLKVL07LzIxtNa02crt59SogWZhrRu1lgVAcn2C4KjVl59AuOAnEqnaAsYc4VNhQj/p4/Zcd2jqsVgNJ1Xy1FI6YJW82wFUJ0dKQcmuWDZZu2c= Received: by 10.39.2.79 with SMTP id e79mr2837874rni; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 12:13:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.82.44 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:13:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:13:37 -0800 From: Cin To: dgandh@t-online.de, h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: Mariner's Cuffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greg, I too was rather loathe to reply as I have never done Naval uniforms, nor any men's tailoring in your target period & country. I did a French court suit from 1740 (rather far afield) but it has the turned back cuffs and some of the details shown in the portrait. This link: http://photos.yahoo.com/hysteria95126 will get you to my freshly posted in-process construction pictures. If a picture is worth 1K words, here's a novella. Ask questions, if you like. I dont know what your tailoring ability is. My primary pattern sources were contemporary paintings, Norah Waugh's "Cut of Men's Clothes" with lots and lots of mockups. In the photos you'll see some horrible fabric... that was the last mockup w/ complete construction & interfacing detail. I have the suit, fitting mock, final mock & can take more pictures. Also, check w/ Fred Sthuthers at RL Shep for Men's tailoring guides in/near your period. Pattern books with often show ossified styles like uniforms, court clothes that date to much earlier than the book's original publication date. Finally, the other person who replied is correct. There is no pocket in the sleeve vent. It's an inset flap that goes betw the cuff & cuff lining. I would guess the flap looks like many pocket flaps you have seen thus the confusion. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com Message: 3 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:39:36 +0200 From: "dgandh" <> Subject: [h-cost] Mariner's Cuffs To: "'Historical Costume'" Message-ID: <1DGzta-1rY7BQ0@fwd16.sul.t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am trying to figure out how mariner's cuffs work circa 1690-1720. To me it looks like its just a pocket flap that 3-buttons the sleeve closed. Does this go over the seam of the arm though? Like the pocket is on one side and the buttons are on the other? This one is a little later but will give you the idea http://www.nmm.ac.uk/mag/pages/mnuExplore/PaintingDetail.cfm?letter=c&ID=BHC3017 and http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/CollectionsDetail.cfm?ID=UNI0006&picture=0 The coat I am trying to make is more of a short jacket than a fancy justaucorps in the pictures above... Any suggestions? Thanks Greg www.gentlemenoffortune.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 1 22:41:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j323fq1d019442 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 22:41:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j323dfLV026547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:39:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j323dPBA047591; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:39:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j323dMZe047556 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:39:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-40-008.jps.net ([209.165.40.8]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1DHZTj-00078p-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 22:39:19 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200504011931.OAA00496@courageux.concentric.com> References: <200504011931.OAA00496@courageux.concentric.com> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 19:38:59 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: cotton X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:31 AM -0800 4/1/05, Julie wrote: >I've heard bits here and there that cotton may not be as scarce in >Western Europe as we've been led to believe. Any of you learned >folks have any knowledge of this? Where were these wool/cotton >fabrics found? Yes, we've had these discussions quite a few times -- though not in the last year or two, IIRC. You might want to check our out list archives: start by going to http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume . There was something of a discussion on "fustian" about a year ago, for instance. More ancient archives are at http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives , which has an excellent search engine. (The 1995 archive is the one I happened to hit, and there are several interesting messages if you search for "cotton.") There are also good discussions at: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/index.cgi?l=hcos97&FirstItem=30&s=Cotton&Cmd=Match+34 http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/index.cgi?l=hcos97&FirstItem=30&s=Cotton&Cmd=Match+35 The classic book on the subject is _The Italian Cotton Industry of the Later Middle Ages, 1100-1600_ by M.F. Mazzaoui (Cambridge, 1991) ISBN 0 521 23095 0 -- I think it's probably out of print by now, but might be available in a college library or on the used-book market. -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 2 03:49:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j328n69M001928 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 03:49:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j328luLV013337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Apr 2005 01:47:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j328ljP0033690; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 01:47:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j328lhTQ033664 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 01:47:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-191-39.mn.res.rr.com [24.26.191.39]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j328YlCl007435 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 02:34:50 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20050402024434.023304c0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 02:45:27 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotton In-Reply-To: <200504011931.OAA00496@courageux.concentric.com> References: <200504011547.j31FlJhL062212@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know about blended fabrics for sure but I have definite references to cotton fabric used in England during the 16th century. Cheers, Danielle At 11:31 AM 4/1/2005 -0800, you wrote: >I've heard bits here and there that cotton may not be as scarce in Western >Europe as we've been led to believe. Any of you learned folks have any >knowledge of this? Where were these wool/cotton fabrics found? >Thanks >Julie >---- wrote: > >> Wool/Cotton blends are actually not modern. There are a variety of > fabrics > > from the 14th century onwards that use cotton and wool in different > amounts. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 2 06:48:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j32BmsE8006605 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 06:48:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j32BloLV006938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Apr 2005 04:47:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32BleF9042736; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 04:47:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j32BlUdL042587 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 04:47:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2005 11:47:24 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050402124406.014c4608@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:47:34 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050331225834.02788ec0@pop.radiks.net> References: <200503311626.j2VGQURX007858@net.indra.com> <200503311626.j2VGQURX007858@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Mariner's Cuffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greg If you get hold of a copy of Costume Close-up by Linda Baumgarten and others, you will find, at item No. 19 a late 18th century French coat with "mariner's cuffs". There are clear patterns, and a wonderful photograph, showing the exact construction. The Museum of London has a similar striped coat on display of the same date, but it has plain cuffs, and very fancy buttons. Hope this helps. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 2 09:04:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j32E4W00022199 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:04:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j32E3FLV014353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Apr 2005 07:03:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32E31ia026293; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 07:03:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32E2wtA026198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 07:02:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.242.195] (acty1195.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.195]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j32E2o1Y025632 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:02:51 -0500 Message-ID: <424EA603.70601@dandy.net> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 09:02:43 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <200504011547.j31FlJhL062212@net.indra.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20050402024434.023304c0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20050402024434.023304c0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] perhaps to put a final note to an old debate (was cotton) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. I think the consensus of most of the fabric/costume historians on the subject of cotton (the plant) usage can be summed up as follows: The plant has been grown for use as a cloth fiber in the Middle East, North Africa and India for quite a long time. Therefore, it was most probably available readily to those cultures. It may have been available, albeit at a higher cost, to Southern European cultures with trade in the Middle East (most notably Italy). It was a rather costly item to Northern European countries up until the 3rd quarter of the 17th Cent., but was occasionally seen, especially when woven as a weft in the manufacturing process with linen warp. The term "cotton" or "cottoning" was used as a phrase in English speaking references to describe a process done to woolen fabrics to make them fluffy or napped. Perhaps this came to be because of their access to raw cotton, which was definitely available as a stuffing or padding (this may be because the cotton plant's fibers were small and difficult to spin, or the market was there for the non-processed product) which begat the name of a fluffing, napping process due to it's resemblance to the plant material. Round about the middle of the 17th Cent. seems to be the most confusion as to the usage of the word "cotton" and what it means. By about the 1670s, due perhaps to English interests in India, true cotton (the plant) fabrics were much cheaper and more readily available in Northern Europe, especially in England. Hopefully this covers the salient points. Now on to the nitty-gritty...What do you want to do with this info? If it is for research, there is a lot of work to do searching out the references. For example, you could see a reference to "cottons" being produced in England for use by Cromwell's army in Ireland, but the likelyhood that it is the plant material and not a woolen, for which England was famous for centuries, is rather slim (i.e cottons as an export out of England as opposed to an import). If it is for clothing/costume, consider the source of your concern. Does the group/person that you are clothing care about such fine details? Perhaps, perhaps not. Just my observations on an ancient topic, Mike T. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 2 10:45:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j32Fj46U022736 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:45:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j32FhBLV020926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Apr 2005 08:43:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32Fh4Qk092027; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 08:43:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32Fh0No091925 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 08:43:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A7E3C74B for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:41:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <424EBD94.5070508@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 09:43:16 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Simplicity Halloween Costume Contest Winners X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://simplicity.com/index.cfm?page=section/contests/hallowinners05/hallo_winners05.htm Some of these are very nicely made and/or cute. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 2 10:58:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j32FwUjV022798 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:58:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j32FvaLV021803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Apr 2005 08:57:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32FvXmG001400; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 08:57:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail12.mdx.safepages.com (mail12.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.242]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32FvVpa001260 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 08:57:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id DAEC7B7BE; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 15:57:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust12.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.12]) by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 36FB5B6FF for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 15:57:11 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00a201c5379c$ca905690$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200504011931.OAA00496@courageux.concentric.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: cotton Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:58:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've collected some notes on cotton, mostly from posts with useful references and translations. They're not exactly well organized, but if anyone would like a text file copy email me off-list and I'll pass it around. You'd be far better off actually reading the Mizzoui book, etc, but my notes can help if you need something quick to go on. -E House (Mmmm.... Flemish trade routes.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 2 12:07:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j32H7qJg023235 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 12:07:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j32H6TLV026351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:06:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32H6IEq046906; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:06:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32H6FWf046859 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:06:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from user-38lc276.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.8.230]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1DHm4d-000781-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:06:15 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00a201c5379c$ca905690$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <200504011931.OAA00496@courageux.concentric.com> <00a201c5379c$ca905690$0400a8c0@compaqub> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:03:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: cotton Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are a couple of other compilations of old posts on the subject at: http://www.florilegium.org/files/TEXTILES/cotton-art.text http://www.florilegium.org/files/TEXTILES/cotton-msg.text BTW, if anyone mentins a scrap of cotton knitting "found in a Viking grave", it's been debunked. The cotton turns out to have been modern mercerized cotton, which means it's a modern intrusion (and the context where it was found is disturbed enough that this is quite possible). -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 2 18:36:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j32Na3AG026244 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 18:36:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j32NYwLV024404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Apr 2005 16:34:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32NYaeP004260; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 16:34:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32NYXlp004186 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 16:34:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06651 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 17:48:54 -0600 Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 17:48:52 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: cotton In-Reply-To: <00a201c5379c$ca905690$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd like to second the suggestion already made to go through the list archives for past threads on cotton. (Note: There are no archives at indra, but the h-cost info page includes directions for finding the archives, which are kept by a volunteer.) Cotton seems to be a topic that gets people all excited, for quite a number of time periods of study. Some years ago the topic inspired the only real flame war I've seen on this list, after which two people were banned (a sad thing, as both were knowledgeable contributors). So clearly it's something that there's a lot of disagreement over. Some things I've found useful to bear in mind: 1. As Mike mentioned, the word "cotton" has had many meanings. Sometimes it refers to a fabric, other times to cotton fiber in a form other than fabric, sometimes to another fiber in certain forms, sometimes to a process ("cottoning"). Seeing the word "cotton" in the writing of one period is not sufficient to justify saying "They had cotton" meaning the fabric as we know it today. 2. The presence of the fiber doesn't mean it was used for fabric. 3. The presence of the fiber or the fabric in one place/time doesn't mean it was used in another place at the same time, or another time in the same place. 4. The presence of the fabric doesn't mean it was used for clothing; in my own period of study (medieval Western Europe) there's plenty of evidence for cotton used for things like embroidery grounds or home decor, but far less for clothing. 5. The presence of the fabric in one type or class of clothing doesn't mean it was used for all types and classes. Summing up: Usage varied quite a bit by place, time, and purpose. When I lecture about certain styles, I advise against using cotton fabric because there's no evidence that it was used for those fashions -- meaning for that time, place, and type of garment. It truly grieves me to hear this come back to me third- or fourth-hand as "Robin says cotton isn't period," which is just as bad a generalization as saying "cotton is period for Elizabethan, therefore I can use it for any garment and culture within the SCA context" -- something I've also heard. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 00:17:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j335HLCo027780 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 00:17:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j335FLLV018694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:15:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j335F8Q5015100; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:15:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j335F5Fq015042 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:15:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.92] (p28.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.92]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j335CL015726 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:12:22 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) To: Historical Costume Message-Id: <2982a4646a56230eaffa0a1c6a23ce54@ntw.net> From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:22:51 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm resending this message because it hasn't shown up yet, so if it appears twice, you'll know why. > > > I finally have a couple questions I know you experts can help me with. > I got a commission to make a medieval dress for an SCA woman, based > on Butterick 3552-- > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi? > search=3552&s.search.all.x=14&s.search.all.y=14&TI=10001&M=&pageSize=9. > > She says she has been told that the seams on sleeves from this era are > supposed to be toward the back rather than under the arm. Is this > correct? Also, I am wondering about the correctness of the over the > bust princess seam on the pattern. I think I will have to leave it > there, due to the nature of the fabric she has chosen, but it seems a > bit modern to me for some reason. > > I'm going to lace up the back instead of using a zipper. Would > grommets have been used yet or would they just be sewn eyelets (which > I dont think I am going to do)? > > TIA, > Sylrog > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 00:46:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j335kL9n027883 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 00:46:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j335hgLV020334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:43:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j335haLS031942; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:43:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-1.paradise.net.nz (bm-1a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j335hX54031842 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:43:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (smtp-2a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.195]) by linda-1.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IEC00E29VWFK3@linda-1.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:43:27 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-148-66.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.148.66]) by smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B35D9E212 for ; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:43:26 +1200 (NZST) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:37:26 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns In-reply-to: <2982a4646a56230eaffa0a1c6a23ce54@ntw.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <424F8116.7060304@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: <2982a4646a56230eaffa0a1c6a23ce54@ntw.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I got a commission to make a medieval dress for an SCA woman, based > on Butterick 3552-- > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi? > search=3552&s.search.all.x=14&s.search.all.y=14&TI=10001&M=&pageSize=9. > >> She says she has been told that the seams on sleeves from this era >> are supposed to be toward the back rather than under the arm. Is >> this correct? Also, I am wondering about the correctness of the >> over the bust princess seam on the pattern. I think I will have to >> leave it there, due to the nature of the fabric she has chosen, but >> it seems a bit modern to me for some reason. >> >> I'm going to lace up the back instead of using a zipper. Would >> grommets have been used yet or would they just be sewn eyelets >> (which I dont think I am going to do)? >> I don't know a huge amount about this era, but it appears to be an attempt at a 12th-century bliaut. To answer your questions in a basic way, no, this is probably before sleeve seams get rotated to the back. And no, grommets wouldn't have been used. The little reading I've done on this area suggests it should lace up under the arms rather than the back. I suggest you check out http://bliautlady.50megs.com/ http://members.shaw.ca/evethejust/bliaut.html Adele _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 01:33:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j336Xd8p028201 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 01:33:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j336WWLV022989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Apr 2005 23:32:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j336WLc0060752; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 23:32:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.144]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j336WIt4060637 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 23:32:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050403063203.VYZE23759.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 18:32:03 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.202.221]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050403063203.CCLJ4411.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 18:32:03 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.9.1]); Sun, 03 Apr 2005 18:32:09 +1200 Message-ID: <002f01c53816$dcac6a10$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2982a4646a56230eaffa0a1c6a23ce54@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 18:32:08 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I finally have a couple questions I know you experts can help me with. > > I got a commission to make a medieval dress for an SCA woman, based > > on Butterick 3552-- > > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi? search=3552&s.search.all.x=14&s.search.all.y=14&TI=10001&M=&pageSize=9. > > She says she has been told that the seams on sleeves from this era are > > supposed to be toward the back rather than under the arm. Is this > > correct? Also, I am wondering about the correctness of the over the > > bust princess seam on the pattern. I think I will have to leave it > > there, due to the nature of the fabric she has chosen, but it seems a > > bit modern to me for some reason. Well... if as Adele says it's to be a Bliaut inspired ensemble, then disregard everything I'm about to say;) It could also be based on early 16thC Dutch/Flemish styles and yes, the seam could be rotated to the back.. it certainly helps the opening of the sleeve to lie flat together rather than open (like you see in the cover of the pattern.) http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/yellowflemish.htm That's my gown from the era this could be from, and I've includeda few images and links to images if you want to pass it on to her to see if that is the style she is after. These sleeves do differe as they are made from a good deal more fabric and are rather heavy once lined. There are allegorical and religious figures from this era who do have multiple part sleeves. > > I'm going to lace up the back instead of using a zipper. Would > > grommets have been used yet or would they just be sewn eyelets (which > > I dont think I am going to do)? Side lacing is a really good way to go with this style as well, as it's one of those "magic" dresses that you get multiple views of in a tapestry, yet has no obvious opening. You can also do lacing rings. I prefer them over grommets and you can even date them to the 15thC very easily. Weyden shows small rather heavy rings on at least two figures, and the Agnes Sorrel Madonna has lacing rings sewn to the inside of her dress that would probably be invisible from the outside. They take less work than an eyelet, but more than a grommet. From the outside they can close the edges together and look a bit like hooks and eyes. regards, michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. 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Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 1/04/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 04:03:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3383EUX028923 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 04:03:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3381uLV028066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 01:01:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3381lgF015213; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 01:01:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3381geW015152 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 01:01:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09878 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:16:06 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:16:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns In-Reply-To: <002f01c53816$dcac6a10$0301010a@michaela> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 3 Apr 2005, michaela wrote: > > > I finally have a couple questions I know you experts can help me with. > > > I got a commission to make a medieval dress for an SCA woman, based > > > on Butterick 3552-- > > > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi? > search=3552&s.search.all.x=14&s.search.all.y=14&TI=10001&M=&pageSize=9. > > Well... if as Adele says it's to be a Bliaut inspired ensemble, then > disregard everything I'm about to say;) > > It could also be based on early 16thC Dutch/Flemish styles... It could be a lot of things! It has cosmetic elements of various styles from over 500 years mixed together and then translated to modern construction. It has a general medievalish look to it, which is fine for many uses (including SCA if you're not entering any competitions and aren't concerned about accuracy to a single period). But the best you could do in nailing down a period would be to call it "Pre-Raphaelite." Period methods for things like sleeve seam placement varied from one period to another, and depended on having the entire dress made in a consistent historical method. Changing an element here or there to match the rules of one period won't make the rest of the dress period. As Adele said, if you're going to declare that this is supposed to be 12th century, you might not rotate the sleeve seam, but then you'd also probably be putting in gussets under the arms and not doing a set-in sleeve at all, and you'd be doing side lacing instead of back, and no princess seams, and a different neckline. If you're going to pick up on some other details and assume it's late 15th c., you might keep the neckline, but you'd change the placement and curves of those princess seams, build in a foundation or add an underdress, get rid of the upper-arm bands, use hidden lacings (and probably not in the back), etc. (I have no idea where that weird train comes from.) If your friend is happy with the style of the dress and it makes her feel medieval, it will do the job. You obviously want to get rid of the truly obvious element -- the zipper -- and choose a fabric and color that has at least some semblance of being medieval. But I wouldn't suggest rotating seams or making other changes in hopes of making it more "period" unless you know which particular period you're emulating ... and if you know that, you probably don't want this pattern as a starting point. Isolated changes really won't have much impact on the overall "periodness," and they may not work as desired because the pattern was designed to work with modern construction methods. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 05:04:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3394ah1004647 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 05:04:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3393cLV008256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3393TY8051147; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:03:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41902.mail.yahoo.com (web41902.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3393PCn051054 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:03:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 72161 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Apr 2005 09:03:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=S6naYXrFxVLAr4osIVbz50JeBNSBDi/bvP9ZXah6UkEKwhzfZ7RVmJxbORWcoqnC+USaoOPP+eJVgHLzyW8zdxkbcmJ4pUKvNqxdOzCLRx6M/SQToA6z//Z36+kg7ANzLZ6YKAS09xsqLnfQnGAAYKDv6rsdGZXcj3wOdBz7Gzs= ; Message-ID: <20050403090320.72159.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.93] by web41902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 01:03:20 PST Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 01:03:20 -0800 (PST) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The more I look at it The more I agreee with Robin its a creative Mish mash of periods... and to me it looks like an English Kirtle...... (I know Kirtle in Elizabethan era is a completely different Garment.) I have a question for Adele about Bliaults.... Would you now of any websites taht have information about them and possible construction???? or good reference books I may be able to find...... Thanks GNL Question How far back to Corsets really go?????? I am in a debate with a lady a DD cup and insists on everything WAY to TIGHT and corseting all she puts on. including Viking, Roman, Kirtles, Cotehardies and Italian Ren ( the pregnant looking style) .... and it looks well to be extremely nice about it. she looks plain! awlful......How does one deal with a person who will not listen to even Laurels that she was misinformed???????? Thansk for the advice and help Satine Robin Netherton wrote: On Sun, 3 Apr 2005, michaela wrote: > > > I finally have a couple questions I know you experts can help me with. > > > I got a commission to make a medieval dress for an SCA woman, based > > > on Butterick 3552-- > > > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi? > search=3552&s.search.all.x=14&s.search.all.y=14&TI=10001&M=&pageSize=9. > > Well... if as Adele says it's to be a Bliaut inspired ensemble, then > disregard everything I'm about to say;) > > It could also be based on early 16thC Dutch/Flemish styles... It could be a lot of things! It has cosmetic elements of various styles from over 500 years mixed together and then translated to modern construction. It has a general medievalish look to it, which is fine for many uses (including SCA if you're not entering any competitions and aren't concerned about accuracy to a single period). But the best you could do in nailing down a period would be to call it "Pre-Raphaelite." Period methods for things like sleeve seam placement varied from one period to another, and depended on having the entire dress made in a consistent historical method. Changing an element here or there to match the rules of one period won't make the rest of the dress period. As Adele said, if you're going to declare that this is supposed to be 12th century, you might not rotate the sleeve seam, but then you'd also probably be putting in gussets under the arms and not doing a set-in sleeve at all, and you'd be doing side lacing instead of back, and no princess seams, and a different neckline. If you're going to pick up on some other details and assume it's late 15th c., you might keep the neckline, but you'd change the placement and curves of those princess seams, build in a foundation or add an underdress, get rid of the upper-arm bands, use hidden lacings (and probably not in the back), etc. (I have no idea where that weird train comes from.) If your friend is happy with the style of the dress and it makes her feel medieval, it will do the job. You obviously want to get rid of the truly obvious element -- the zipper -- and choose a fabric and color that has at least some semblance of being medieval. But I wouldn't suggest rotating seams or making other changes in hopes of making it more "period" unless you know which particular period you're emulating ... and if you know that, you probably don't want this pattern as a starting point. Isolated changes really won't have much impact on the overall "periodness," and they may not work as desired because the pattern was designed to work with modern construction methods. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 05:37:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j339bBHo004864 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 05:37:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j339aDLV013759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j339a9ef069658; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:36:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-1.paradise.net.nz (bm-1a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j339a7O3069580 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:36:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-3.paradise.net.nz (smtp-3a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.196]) by linda-1.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IED00G1V6O1ZS@linda-1.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 21:36:02 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-148-162.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.148.162]) by smtp-3.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFBC4AE530 for ; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 21:36:00 +1200 (NZST) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 21:30:01 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns In-reply-to: <20050403090320.72159.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <424FB799.3080803@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: <20050403090320.72159.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lady Satine wrote: >I have a question for Adele about Bliaults.... Would you now of any websites taht have information about them and possible construction???? or good reference books I may be able to find...... Thanks > > Hi Satine-- Sadly, no-- just the websites I suggested in my email. This is well outside my area. > >GNL Question How far back to Corsets really go?????? I am in a debate with a lady a DD cup and insists on everything WAY to TIGHT and corseting all she puts on. including Viking, Roman, Kirtles, Cotehardies and Italian Ren ( the pregnant looking style) .... and it looks well to be extremely nice about it. she looks plain! awlful......How does one deal with a person who will not listen to even Laurels that she was misinformed???????? > > Some time in the 16th century, as far as anyone knows. I wouldn't worry about it, actually... she's not interested in being told she's wrong ust at the moment, but it's probably a phase and she'll get over it. Adele _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 10:33:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j33EXjv9010663 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 10:33:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j33EWcLV002878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 08:32:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33EWTws043515; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 08:32:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j33EWRl5043399 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 08:32:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail13.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.153]) by smtpout01.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBE99U5AV47832 for (sender ); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 07:31:55 -0700 (PST) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7xgAgikbRO31T3FdA5CnIg+3QZFswg/Siw== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail13.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KPNWMC24; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 07:31:17 PDT Received: from [24.14.76.2] by webmail13.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:31:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.76.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" X-UOL-SENDER: penhalion@juno.com Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:31:09 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns X-Mailer: Juno Webmail Version 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050403.073117.21134.196502@webmail13.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:1:1857978462 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's Eowyn's dress! It's from Lord of the Rings and, as Robin guessed, it might best be described as Pre-Raphaelite with a medievalish inspiration. It's a lovely dress, but it's NOT medieval at all, it's fantasy Hollywood (or New Zealand) and never intended to do anything other than invoke a feel of a long ago time. If she wants the dress, I'm sure it will look lovely, but I agree with Robin in that tweaking one or two bits won't make it period anything. Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 11:01:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j33F1cGX010778 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:01:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j33F0QLV004507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 09:00:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33F0N6r061076; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 09:00:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33F0Lp7061051 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 09:00:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.83] (p19.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.83]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j33Eve007086 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 08:57:40 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <20050403.073117.21134.196502@webmail13.nyc.untd.com> References: <20050403.073117.21134.196502@webmail13.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0f98e4b251d24d5cfdccbf8f0e374df4@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 09:08:11 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Apr 3, 2005, at 8:31 AM, seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > That's Eowyn's dress! It's from Lord of the Rings and, as Robin > guessed, it might best be described as Pre-Raphaelite with a > medievalish inspiration. It's a lovely dress, but it's NOT medieval at > all, it's fantasy Hollywood (or New Zealand) and never intended to do > anything other than invoke a feel of a long ago time. If she wants the > dress, I'm sure it will look lovely, but I agree with Robin in that > tweaking one or two bits won't make it period anything. > > > I didnt recognize it from LOTR but after doing a bit of research from > what books I have on hand, I concluded it wasn't very historically > accurate, so I'm glad to get all your comments. I will pass them > along to the customer who, I'm sure, is still going to want this > dress, which is fine with me, but now i have to figure out how much to > charge. Any suggestions from those of you who sew for profit? I am > thinking in the range of $150-200. Her fabric has a definite pattern > which she wants matched and that alone will take some time. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 12:32:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j33GWm1M011201 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 12:32:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j33GVcLV010414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 10:31:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33GVTiR018370; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 10:31:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j33GVRde018358 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 10:31:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 14029 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2005 16:31:28 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 09:31:28 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 09:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1061.24.4.69.40.1112545886.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <012601c53098$2e8b23c0$df159b04@HELENPINTO> References: <004401c53081$a22ab730$54a810ac@Kate> <012601c53098$2e8b23c0$df159b04@HELENPINTO> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 09:31:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cotehardie sleeves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi folks! Maybe I missed any prior disussion, but I would REALLY like know where I can find examples of cotehardie sleeves with a seam up the side of the arm. I mean pictoral evidence. Or a statue or something. I have spent many years doing costuming and everybody "says" that cotehardie seams are down the side of the arm but I have never seen pictures that prove it! When I did my research a couple of years ago, I found two different pictures of men (statues from 1340 & 1355) in my book "A Visual History of Costume" that show the buttons on the sleeves. But after the buttons end, there is no seam. For those of you who have the book, they are pages 49 & 52. There are several other examples of buttons going up to the elbow and/or beyond but you only see the profile view so you can't tell if there is a seam or not. So does anybody have a picture (or several preferrably) that shows the seam up the side of the arm? Thanks! Diana As a side note: I actually made my sleeve pattern with the normal sleeve seam and then a cutout in the shape of a V for the button area. I use a facing and can have a tight fit in the forearm without restricting the arm movement. Since I couldn't see a seam beyond the buttons, I figured that it was one possible way that the sleeves were done. www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 13:56:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j33HuirC012850 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 13:56:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j33HsULV015086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33HsEDj069041; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:54:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50603.mail.yahoo.com (web50603.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j33HsAen068949 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:54:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 69139 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Apr 2005 17:54:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20050403175405.69137.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 13:54:05 EDT Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 13:54:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504031500.j33F0N46061075@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Grommets and hooks and corsets oh my! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll combine your posts to save on bandwidth. > thing.... I would use Grommets and not Eyelets > because eyelets pull out easier than Grommets.... I > have Heard that Hook and Eyes are period... I am > lookng into that..... Grommets and eyelets were invented in the 1800's as a matter of trivia. Somewhere in the dusty corners of my mind there is a date, but I can't recall it. Anyway, that not being the point, I try to avoid either of them unless they are small enough that one can push the fibres aside and stuff the upper half of the eyelet through rather than actually cutting the fibres. I have sworn off of all metal grommetty things because of the tearing and knawing they do on the fabric. Even after being set properly, the natural movement of the person wearing the clothing will slowly saw away at the fabric and cut the fibres anyway. I use jewellry finding rings (metal rings were used historically as well to stabilise the hole)and whipstitch the hole open. My opinion, YMMV. And yes, hooks and eyes are period - to SCA later periods anyway that I am aware. Hooks in their own way are earlier as well, but for a different purpose - first that comes to mind is wickelbinder/leg wraps/puttees are hooked closed to hold them tight. They appear not unlike the little grabby hooky things one uses to hold an ace bandage closed on your twisted ankle. I'd love to hear other evidence from other periods on this topic too, really. "Kilt" pins, in their simplest form are technically period as well. These fall under the fibula pin category. A little trivia I found out when I made a cloak pin long long ago. > GNL Question How far back to Corsets really go?????? This is not as easy to answer as one may think. It depends on what you define as a "corset". The word itself has its' own etymology that dates to the latter half of the 16th c (erm, I think, I'm lazy today and not dragging out my books for this). If you define the modern blanket term of "corset" as "a textile based garment that has been stiffened through methods of layers of heavily woven fabric, stiffening products such as whalebone or bents, or employs leather in any way to assist in the support of the female breasts" I can take you back to at least the Roman era. If you are looking at say, pfalzgrafen and effigy extant corsets and say "that's a corset!" Then it's 16th c. Throw in the Toledo bodice and it really gets hazy - there is endless debate as to the true purpose of that bodice. By all general accounts, it does not really fit the standard definition of corset, but it could have acted as support i.e. the difference between the atomic bra with fabric solid enough to stop a tank vs. one of those little tissue-y pair of squares of lace sewn to a bit of elastic. Just depended on how heavy chested the person was and their cultural fashion silhouette at the time. > I am in a debate with a lady a DD cup I am this size as well and have come up with solutions to fix this issue. When I need to find something that I have no evidence for, I do my own little private "costuming junkyard wars". I take all the things someone from the time and place I am trying to emulate would have had reasonable access to, and start building. My answer to this issue of heavy chested women and support issues is a kirtle of sorts. I made it with as few cuts to the fabric as possible, the shape as natural as I can, but gives me the support I need. The real secret to making a kirtle that doesn't squash the girls flat is the liberal and creative use of bias cutting. No documentation for the garment, but hey, it works, and no one is the wiser. I have had someone ask me for a pattern from it though. :-) and insists > on everything WAY to TIGHT and corseting all she > puts on. including Viking, Roman, Kirtles, > Cotehardies and Italian Ren ( the pregnant looking > style) .... and it looks well to be extremely nice > about it. she looks plain! awlful...... I'd find that amusing to see more than anything else, but would never say it out loud. A Norse corset... heheheh... *grin* How does one > deal with a person who will not listen to even > Laurels that she was misinformed???????? Ya don't. And jumping up and down in her face won't give you the best reputation in the world, either. Oh yes, I have seen many a person I have soooo wanted to walk up to and start fixing things, inform or otherwise in my own way tell them what they are proudly wearing is painfully all wrong, but, unless directly asked to I would never ever do it. Let her go her own way, interpret it in whatever style she likes best - if that means the Corsetted Viking Wench - as much as that makes us shudder - let her do it. Either she will one day figure it out, fix things then look back and laugh at herself, or will further develop her style into something even weirder that she becomes an alternate fashion timeline. And hey, we all need distracting entertainment in those fleeting moments of boredom. ;-) Kathy ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 15:16:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j33JGMtL014433 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:16:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j33JEZLV020240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 13:14:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33JEOSA018681; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 13:14:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33JEMeQ018652 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 13:14:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14395 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:28:50 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:28:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cotehardie sleeves In-Reply-To: <1061.24.4.69.40.1112545886.squirrel@www.inreach.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 3 Apr 2005, Diana Habra wrote: > As a side note: I actually made my sleeve pattern with the normal > sleeve seam and then a cutout in the shape of a V for the button area. > I use a facing and can have a tight fit in the forearm without > restricting the arm movement. Since I couldn't see a seam beyond the > buttons, I figured that it was one possible way that the sleeves were > done. I do something very similar. I have only one full-length seam on my sleeve, and it runs along the inside; the button seam goes only the length of the buttons and is the result of the removal of a wedge of excess fabric. However, I do rotate the sleeve in that the inside seam hits about two inches in front of my side seam -- at the forward inner point. Regardless of where you put your seam, this should be the deepest part of the sleeve curve. So, you can make your curve symmetrical, and put the seam a bit forward of side, or you can offset your curve, and put the seam directly at bottom, matching the body side seam -- but in either case, the dip under your arm lies somewhat forward of the side of your body. If you move your arm around you can see where the center of your range of motion is, and where you want the least bulk. Correspondingly, the tallest part of your sleeve is not at the top of your arm; it's a bit to the back. And it's from there that you want the weight of a hanging sleeve to fall. For many of us, this is the "fold line" on a symmetrical sleeve. Some people put a seam there, and I have done so on occasion when I've had to piece fabric. This is the location of the "offset outer seam down the back" that I think you are referring to. Finding images of seams on cotehardie/fitted dress sleeves is almost impossible. I'd love to see some too, and not just on the sleeves! Generally your only clue is button placement; the question then is whether the seam continues up or only extends for the length of the buttons. But sometimes you do see seams on, say, big bag sleeves of the same period, if the seams are decorated with fringe, and you can sometimes see they come out of the back of the armhole, not the top of the armhole. (The courtesan from Hecyra, in a pink dress with green fringe in her bag sleeve, is one nice example of this.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 16:40:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j33Ke1le014861 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:40:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j33KcjLV025358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:38:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33KcaVr070220; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:38:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33KcX84070200 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:38:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3D8338A9F for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:38:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p153.socket.net [64.85.216.155]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E3603C5FF for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:38:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:38:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20050403.073117.21134.196502@webmail13.nyc.untd.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Butterick 3552 is not an Eowyn dress knock off. It is a Pre- LOTRs pattern. 3552 came out a little after Mists of Avalon and a few other Medievally type movies. the main body can pass as "Italian" early 1400s (?. you would have a straight sleeve with seam on the back side. Will look for a picture tonight when I have more time. Arian *****Original****** <<<>>>> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 16:51:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j33KpvtV014959 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:51:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j33KowLV025944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:50:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33Kosue078385; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:50:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33KopDA078331 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:50:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.131] (pm7-131.eos.net [205.133.149.131]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j33KokDl004202 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:50:47 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:44:33 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200504031500.j33F0N47061075@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I second everything -- very pretty, but not medieval. Besides that, I don't see why it needs to lace or zipper closed at all. From the photo on the pattern, anyway, it doesn't look fitted enough to require any sort of closure. It looks like it has enough ease built in to be able to wiggle into it. Depending on the lady's size and shape, that is. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 16:57:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j33KvOS6014998 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:57:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j33Ku0LV026332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:56:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33KtrML081568; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:55:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33KtnJN081491 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:55:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DIC8I-000NC4-75 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:55:46 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 21:54:23 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] perhaps to put a final note to an old debate (was cotton) References: <200504011547.j31FlJhL062212@net.indra.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20050402024434.023304c0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <424EA603.70601@dandy.net> In-Reply-To: <424EA603.70601@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One last point - I understand that cotton was used in Northen Europe for household textiles a good bit earlier than for clothing, so to make use of any references to cotton manufacture you need to check what the finished item was going to be. Jean michael tartaglio wrote >Hi, All. I think the consensus of most of the fabric/costume historians >on the subject of cotton (the plant) usage can be summed up as follows: >The plant has been grown for use as a cloth fiber in the Middle East, >North Africa and India for quite a long time. Therefore, it was most >probably available readily to those cultures. >It may have been available, albeit at a higher cost, to Southern >European cultures with trade in the Middle East (most notably Italy). >It was a rather costly item to Northern European countries up until the >3rd quarter of the 17th Cent., but was occasionally seen, especially >when woven as a weft in the manufacturing process with linen warp. >The term "cotton" or "cottoning" was used as a phrase in English >speaking references to describe a process done to woolen fabrics to >make them fluffy or napped. Perhaps this came to be because of their >access to raw cotton, which was definitely available as a stuffing or >padding (this may be because the cotton plant's fibers were small and >difficult to spin, or the market was there for the non-processed >product) which begat the name of a fluffing, napping process due to >it's resemblance to the plant material. >Round about the middle of the 17th Cent. seems to be the most confusion >as to the usage of the word "cotton" and what it means. >By about the 1670s, due perhaps to English interests in India, true >cotton (the plant) fabrics were much cheaper and more readily available >in Northern Europe, especially in England. >Hopefully this covers the salient points. >Now on to the nitty-gritty...What do you want to do with this info? >If it is for research, there is a lot of work to do searching out the >references. For example, you could see a reference to "cottons" being >produced in England for use by Cromwell's army in Ireland, but the >likelyhood that it is the plant material and not a woolen, for which >England was famous for centuries, is rather slim (i.e cottons as an >export out of England as opposed to an import). >If it is for clothing/costume, consider the source of your concern. >Does the group/person that you are clothing care about such fine >details? Perhaps, perhaps not. >Just my observations on an ancient topic, Mike T. >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 17:42:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j33Lgbv6015355 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 17:42:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j33LeULV029370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:40:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33LeNam011252; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:40:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33LeJd7011174 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:40:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15274 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:54:47 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:54:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] perhaps to put a final note to an old debate (was cotton) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 3 Apr 2005, Jean Waddie wrote: > One last point - I understand that cotton was used in Northen Europe > for household textiles a good bit earlier than for clothing, so to > make use of any references to cotton manufacture you need to check > what the finished item was going to be. I'm pretty certain that non-clothing usage accounts for a lot of the cotton trade that some people point to as "evidence" for cotton clothing in the 12th-14th centuries. I think as costumers we may find it easy to overlook the many, many other uses for textiles in general: upholstery, cushions, bed hangings, wall hangings, draperies, bed and table linens, wrapping, sacking, sailcloth, horse blankets, tents, stage scenery, banners ... not that all of these were cotton, of course, but that we have to remember that not every textile-related account entry or extant scrap had to do with clothing ... far from it. --Robin ========================================================== Robin Netherton // Editor at Large robin@nightowl.net voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1333 Life is just a bowl of queries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 17:55:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j33LtGX1015454 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 17:55:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j33LsCLV000283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33Ls7Ng020097; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:54:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j33Ls47A020060 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:54:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j33Lrxck028997 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 17:54:00 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.70.62] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-70-62.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.62]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j33LrsHb342808 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:54:03 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050403141000.02675258@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 14:15:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grommets and hooks and corsets oh my! In-Reply-To: <20050403175405.69137.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200504031500.j33F0N46061075@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >them unless they are small enough that one can push >the fibres aside and stuff the upper half of the >eyelet through rather than actually cutting the >fibres. I agree with your method. This is possible with up to half-inch grommets, tho the process is really slow. I then stitch over the grommet, so it looks like there's a metal ring reinforcement under the stitching. My latest bodice used only stitching for the lacing holes, no metal, and I too am a DD. It lasted two faire seasons, and the lacing holes had not worn out by the time I retired it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 21:50:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j341nvsC016668 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 21:50:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j341mdLV017582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 19:48:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j341mS62067546; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 19:48:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j341mPwQ067436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 19:48:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.248.148] (@acty3148.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.248.148]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j341mG1Y025446 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 21:48:16 -0400 Message-ID: <42509CD7.20604@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 21:48:07 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] perhaps to put a final note to an old debate (was cotton) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. This is an interesting concept, and as much as I agree, I can't help wondering how this all plays out in the general run of things. I am curious as to how many products such as those mentioned were manufactured, then sent abroad as completed imports (draperies, napkins, tablecloths, etc.), and how many were made at the end of the line from the fabric as it was available. In the latter case, then, what would stop anyone from making anything they wanted from the material? Was cotton (the plant fiber fabric) viewed by some Northern European cultures in the earlier to mid Medieval period as being intrinsically better or more proper for, lets say, bedding linens, wall hangings or sacking ? Where is a point in a culture when material that was sold for one use starts being used for another? I never thought, really, of Medieval folks as being of the mindset (aside from finickyness about social station issues and cost) that would prevent them from doing anything they wanted once they got their hands on a bolt of any fabric, much less something that was imported (kind of like silk) and perhaps costlier than linen, hemp or nettle fabrics (the homemade, but still well made stuff). If anyone has any definitive descriptions of finished cotton (the plant fiber) fabrics being used for specifically non-clothing uses, I would be curious to see them. I could imagine if they were of a fancy weave with a specific pattern, the Church might have used some for liturgical drapery, but that doesn't account for domestic consumption. Perhaps cotton was first introduced into Northern Europe in a sort of analog to the flour sack or feedbag clothing from the Depression era in the US (Hey, wow! What is this great cloth that these Syrian glasses are wrapped in? I'm gonna give it to my wife and see what she can make with it!!) Thanks for all of the great discussion, Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 3 22:15:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j342ExRA016802 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 22:15:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j342DELV019527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:13:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j342DBdi084026; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:13:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j342D8S7083989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:13:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-85.sonic.net [209.148.114.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j342D62r021369 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 19:13:07 -0700 Message-ID: <4250A2B5.2070707@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 19:13:09 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember this story from one of my history classes and just looked it up again on the net. SULPITIUS SEVERUS ON THE LIFE OF ST. MARTIN (SULPITIUS (or Sulpicius) SEVERUS was born in Aquitania about A.D. 363, and died, as is generally supposed, in A.D. 420.) A Case of Diabolic Deception. THERE was a certain man, Clarus by name, a most noble youth, who afterwards became a presbyter, and who is now, through his happy departure from this world, numbered among the saints. He, leaving all others, betook himself to Martin, and in a short time became distinguished for the most exalted faith, and for all sorts of excellence. Now, it came to pass that, when he had erected an abode for himself not far from the monastery of the bishop, and many brethren were staying with him, a certain youth, Anatolius by name, having, under the profession of a monk, falsely assumed every appearance of humility and innocence, came to him, and lived for some time on the common store along with the rest. Then, as time went on, he began to affirm that angels were in the habit of talking with him. As no one gave any credit to his words, he urged a number of the brethren to believe by certain signs. At length he went to such a length as to declare that angels passed between him and God; and now he wished that he should be regarded as one of the prophets. Clarus, however, could by no means be induced to believe. He then began to threaten Clarus with the anger of God and present afflictions, because he did not believe one of the saints. At the last, he is related to have burst forth with the following declaration: "Behold, the Lord will this night give me a white robe out of heaven, clothed in which, I will dwell in the midst of you; and that will be to you a sign that I am the Power of God, inasmuch as I have been presented with the garment of God." Then truly the expectation of all was highly raised by this profession. Accordingly, about the middle of the night, it was seen, by the noise of people moving eagerly about, that the whole monastery in the place was excited. It might be seen, too, that the cell in which the young man referred to lived was glittering with numerous lights; and the whisperings of those moving about in it, as well as a kind of murmur of many. voices, could be heard. Then, on silence being secured, the youth coming forth calls one of the brethren, Sabatius by name, to himself, and shows him the robe in which he had been clothed. He again, filled with amazement, gathers the rest together, and Clarus himself also runs up; and a light being obtained, they all carefully inspect the garment. Now, it was of the utmost softness, of marvelous brightness, and of glittering purple, and yet no one could discover what was its nature, or of what sort of fleece it had been formed. However, when it was more minutely examined by the eyes or fingers, it seemed nothing else than a garment. In the meantime, Clarus urges upon the brethren to be earnest in prayer, that the Lord would show them more clearly what it really was. Accordingly, the rest of the night was spent in singing hymns and psalms. But when day broke, Clarus wished to take the young man by the hand, and bring him to Martin, being well aware that he could not be deceived by any arts of the devil. Then, indeed, the miserable man began to resist and refuse, and affirmed that he had been forbidden to show himself to Martin. And when they compelled him to go against his will, the garment vanished from among the hands of those who were conducting him. Wherefore, who can doubt that this, too, was an illustration of the power of Martin, so that the devil could no longer dissemble or conceal his own deception, when it was to be submitted to the eyes of Martin? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 00:25:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j344P6mc017263 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:25:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j344NBLV029187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 22:23:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j344N4g9069595; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 22:23:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j344N1L4069559 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 22:23:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17974 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:37:31 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:37:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] perhaps to put a final note to an old debate (was cotton) In-Reply-To: <42509CD7.20604@dandy.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 3 Apr 2005, michael tartaglio wrote: > Hi. This is an interesting concept, and as much as I agree, I can't > help wondering how this all plays out in the general run of things. I > am curious as to how many products such as those mentioned were > manufactured, then sent abroad as completed imports (draperies, > napkins, tablecloths, etc.), and how many were made at the end of the > line from the fabric as it was available. In the latter case, then, > what would stop anyone from making anything they wanted from the > material? Was cotton (the plant fiber fabric) viewed by some Northern > European cultures in the earlier to mid Medieval period as being > intrinsically better or more proper for, lets say, bedding linens, > wall hangings or sacking ? Where is a point in a culture when material > that was sold for one use starts being used for another? I never > thought, really, of Medieval folks as being of the mindset (aside from > finickyness about social station issues and cost) that would prevent > them from doing anything they wanted once they got their hands on a > bolt of any fabric, much less something that was imported (kind of > like silk) and perhaps costlier than linen, hemp or nettle fabrics > (the homemade, but still well made stuff). On the contrary, there's plenty of evidence for just such a mindset in medieval Western Europe, in that there was a clear preference for certain uses for fabrics based on their intrinsic qualities. For example, undyed (often bleached) linen was far and away *the* fabric for bed linens and table linens (that's why we still call them "linens"), toweling, underwear, and certain other garments such as coifs, as well as linings for non-underwear garments but has essentially no presence as outer (visible) layers of gowns, where wool was the dominant choice, and silk an alternative for the wealthy. This difference in usage makes sense when considering the properties of the fabrics as regards dye depth/permanence, washability, wearability, strength/stretch, etc. Preferences changed over time; in the 16th c. we see linen used for outer layers -- but by then the economics and types of garments were extremely different. And obviously preferences changed by geographic region, reflecting differences in culture, climate, availability/expense of different materials, etc. Differences in garment construction and fashions might have contributed in part to the different preferences in fabric by place and time, but I suspect the influence worked the other way -- garment construction almost certainly reflected the availability of particular materials to work with. If your culture's dominant available fabric is cotton, you will end up with different garment constructions than if it's wool, because the fabrics behave differently in use. And if you try to make something out of cotton that was designed to be made out of a fabric with the properties of wool, you're often going to end up with an unsatisfactory result. Sometimes it doesn't matter, of course, but for many uses, fabrics are not interchangeable with equally acceptable results. There's ample evidence, including suviving artifacts, of cotton being used for home decor, embroidery, etc. in W. Europe from (I think) the 12th or 13th c.; it doesn't seem to show up in garments till much later. Sorry I don't have cites at my fingertips; this is not my area of expertise. Let's just say that of the inventories and other documents I do read in my period and place of interest (14th/early 15th c. France/Flanders/England), there's plenty of references to linen, wool, and silk for garments, and a notable absence of cotton. But I occasionally notice the presence of cotton in non-garment uses from this period (e.g. a cushion in a museum exhibit). Cotton also shows up as a stuffing or padding material, including for garment use. One of the existing pourpoints -- not Charles de Blois, the other one, is it Charles V? -- has cotton interlayers, and I believe that's the fiber, not fabric. FWIW, I have personally found cotton highly inferior to work with from a purely mechanical standpoint in making clothing of the 14th century (understanding that modern cotton fabrics may not be reflective of medieval ones, of course, but that same handicap occurs with any modern fabric). I frankly would not be surprised if medieval garment-makers had the same experience; given the expense of cotton, why would they want to spend that much money on yard goods and end up with something that fit badly, wore poorly, and was uncomfortable in wear? Better to use that cloth for a wall hanging or embroidery ground. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 01:05:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3455beV017400 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:05:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3454PLV001903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:04:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3454F7o096139; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:04:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3454B09096049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:04:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 29684 invoked by uid 507); 4 Apr 2005 15:04:05 +1000 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 4 Apr 2005 15:04:05 +1000 Message-ID: <084901c538d3$c32ba700$0302a8c0@mycomputer> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] perhaps to put a final note to an old debate (was cotton) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:04:20 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: > FWIW, I have personally found cotton highly inferior to work with from a > purely mechanical standpoint in making clothing of the 14th century I have also found it inferior in the laundry. Dirt seem to wash out of my linens heaps easier than any cotton worn to the same events. Wool, of course, is a dream! Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 01:54:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j345stV8017605 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:54:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j345rjLV004614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:53:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j345rXWu025313; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:53:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41903.mail.yahoo.com (web41903.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.154]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j345rUBU025214 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:53:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 98900 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2005 05:53:25 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=jb6x2uLe2J3/WEyzMfMPXAkFxhudeKcrLqpGV5DraP8R7V4T+5zkS1MPZztHmfgAs04rJYYBrma9YawptoCg5RIOO3VK2oEAZDxuckGKdwxqMmUQCujIp2PgPDvdYksodCEdVcRR3QsAHhFOotJzbogYtcdtgozC8T4NkJn5fmg= ; Message-ID: <20050404055325.98898.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.114] by web41903.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 22:53:25 PDT Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 22:53:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks.... I hope so. I needed to Vent... Satine Adele de Maisieres wrote: Lady Satine wrote: >I have a question for Adele about Bliaults.... Would you now of any websites taht have information about them and possible construction???? or good reference books I may be able to find...... Thanks > > Hi Satine-- Sadly, no-- just the websites I suggested in my email. This is well outside my area. > >GNL Question How far back to Corsets really go?????? I am in a debate with a lady a DD cup and insists on everything WAY to TIGHT and corseting all she puts on. including Viking, Roman, Kirtles, Cotehardies and Italian Ren ( the pregnant looking style) .... and it looks well to be extremely nice about it. she looks plain! awlful......How does one deal with a person who will not listen to even Laurels that she was misinformed???????? > > Some time in the 16th century, as far as anyone knows. I wouldn't worry about it, actually... she's not interested in being told she's wrong ust at the moment, but it's probably a phase and she'll get over it. Adele _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 02:00:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3460GHZ017654 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 02:00:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j345xVLV004925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:59:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j345xSHA028788; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:59:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j345xRve028700 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:59:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.44] (p28.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.44]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j345ud008369 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:56:40 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <5faf019f0fdd8970f090a12e44a1bfeb@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:07:12 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's definitely too fitted not to have a closure and since it is not historically accurate, what would you all suggest? Grommets? Fabric loops? Rings? I'm going to put the closure on the back, not at the sides. Sylrog On Apr 3, 2005, at 3:44 PM, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > I second everything -- very pretty, but not medieval. Besides that, I > don't > see why it needs to lace or zipper closed at all. From the photo on the > pattern, anyway, it doesn't look fitted enough to require any sort of > closure. It looks like it has enough ease built in to be able to > wiggle into > it. Depending on the lady's size and shape, that is. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 02:17:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j346HAk1023094 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 02:17:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j346G7LV006485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:16:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j346G2hK039511; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:16:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j346FxEJ039443 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:16:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18744 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:30:30 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:30:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown In-Reply-To: <5faf019f0fdd8970f090a12e44a1bfeb@ntw.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 4 Apr 2005, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > It's definitely too fitted not to have a closure and since it is not > historically accurate, what would you all suggest? Grommets? Fabric > loops? Rings? I'm going to put the closure on the back, not at the > sides. The best solution would be hand-made eyelets. I have posted here before on how I do them; they are surprisingly easy and fast, and they wear very well. However, I remember you said you were not eager to do these. I have not seen any examples of fabric loops in the middle ages, though some people swear they must have existed. My experience with them is that it's hard to make them look good and pull up evenly. If you're going to be putting any strain on the seam at all, I wouldn't recommend them. Nor have I seen metal grommets or metal eyelets. However, small metal eyelets in the color of the fabric would probably look more like hand-made eyelets than anything else. When you put them in, pry the fabric threads apart with an awl rather than punching a hole. If you punch a hole, your eyelets will start popping out within the first couple of wearings. If your eyelets are on a vertical line, you may need to cut one or two of the threads running vertically through the middle of the eyelets at each of the holes, to avoid puckering. Lacing rings appear by the 15th century at least, probably a little earlier. I feel sure I've seen them in the 14th century in Italy. But for your purposes, they would probably be harder than making your own eyelets by hand. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 03:20:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j347KdL0011568 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 03:20:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j347JYLV009950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:19:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j347JYTQ079320; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:19:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41809.mail.yahoo.com (web41809.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.143]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j347JW49079268 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:19:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 63750 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2005 07:19:26 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=lIrm6mKD81zRP6pgCcYUKDhyAnilUYPbvi5ao0cqU01J5UlsnCxKOM1WKHY3tr4NzqawGCUL5wIiemaxLkkFlAF+y9gcYFsdFOogEJVHo5h3f7MxAVSqRME/hWPfNgSoQQ0BvPKu2D0zKjoh2HQjcdjNw0daiCZ3mZ+zaa8BmE0= ; Message-ID: <20050404071926.63748.qmail@web41809.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41809.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 00:19:26 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:19:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns No taste in corsets or fashions To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Lady Satine wrote: > snip > GNL Question How far back to Corsets really go?????? > I am in a debate with a lady a DD cup and insists > on everything WAY to TIGHT and corseting all she > puts on. including Viking, Roman, Kirtles, > Cotehardies and Italian Ren ( the pregnant looking > style) .... and it looks well to be extremely nice > about it. she looks plain! awlful......How does one > deal with a person who will not listen to even > Laurels that she was misinformed???????? > > Thanks for the advice and help > Satine > Well, I found out after making my sis a Ren outfit,to save your sanity & friendship you just smile and nod. She probably knows she looks awful,but some people are too proud to say "i was wrong". My sis wanted an authentic Eliz. outfit, when we went shopping for material- she headed straight for the acetate velvet cut pile stuff. Ok, its her dime... I had to squeeze the tears back int omy eyes when she then proceeded to pick out gold acetate sheer w/glitter accents pasted on with tiny gold plastic-rubber balls glued all over it for the chemise. I cut the goods out,sewed it up to her measurements, gave it to her for faire and she insisted it was too big. ( She has this incredible ability to smoosh her waist into this circulation cutting off curcumference,which frankly looks probably worse then Ms.DD because she has really high hips , she ends up looking like a"spade" symbol turned upside down) But she thinks she look fine so out came the machine,-5 alterations later.....she's happily smooshed into her 24" waist size,40" hips. So remember, smile & nod,eventually she'll see the light.... > Melody > > Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Sun, 3 Apr 2005, michaela wrote: > > > > > I finally have a couple questions I know you > experts can help me with. > > > > I got a commission to make a medieval dress > for an SCA woman, based > > > > on Butterick 3552-- > > > > > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi? > > > search=3552&s.search.all.x=14&s.search.all.y=14&TI=10001&M=&pageSize=9. > > > > Well... if as Adele says it's to be a Bliaut > inspired ensemble, then > > disregard everything I'm about to say;) > > > > It could also be based on early 16thC > Dutch/Flemish styles... > > It could be a lot of things! It has cosmetic > elements of various styles > from over 500 years mixed together and then > translated to modern > construction. It has a general medievalish look to > it, which is fine for > many uses (including SCA if you're not entering any > competitions and > aren't concerned about accuracy to a single period). > But the best you > could do in nailing down a period would be to call > it "Pre-Raphaelite." > > Period methods for things like sleeve seam placement > varied from one > period to another, and depended on having the entire > dress made in a > consistent historical method. Changing an element > here or there to match > the rules of one period won't make the rest of the > dress period. As Adele > said, if you're going to declare that this is > supposed to be 12th century, > you might not rotate the sleeve seam, but then you'd > also probably be > putting in gussets under the arms and not doing a > set-in sleeve at all, > and you'd be doing side lacing instead of back, and > no princess seams, and > a different neckline. If you're going to pick up on > some other details and > assume it's late 15th c., you might keep the > neckline, but you'd change > the placement and curves of those princess seams, > build in a foundation or > add an underdress, get rid of the upper-arm bands, > use hidden lacings (and > probably not in the back), etc. > > (I have no idea where that weird train comes from.) > > If your friend is happy with the style of the dress > and it makes her feel > medieval, it will do the job. You obviously want to > get rid of the truly > obvious element -- the zipper -- and choose a fabric > and color that has at > least some semblance of being medieval. But I > wouldn't suggest rotating > seams or making other changes in hopes of making it > more "period" unless > you know which particular period you're emulating > ... and if you know > that, you probably don't want this pattern as a > starting point. Isolated > changes really won't have much impact on the overall > "periodness," and > they may not work as desired because the pattern was > designed to work with > modern construction methods. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 03:21:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j347LcSh011683 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 03:21:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j347KELV009983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j347KEok079815; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:20:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j347KDjZ079799 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:20:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43CB538C0C for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 02:20:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p180.socket.net [64.85.214.182]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 48AFEC5FF for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 02:20:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 02:20:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <5faf019f0fdd8970f090a12e44a1bfeb@ntw.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Before you settle on the back, perhaps you need to know how well the customer will be able to lace it closed if it is in the back. Will she needing assistance to lace herself up? Will she be wearing a shift under the gown? De -----Original Message----- I'm going to put the closure on the back, not at the sides. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 03:21:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j347Lmf5011697 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 03:21:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j347FhLV009779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j347FaNX076900; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:15:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41905.mail.yahoo.com (web41905.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j347FY9g076818 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:15:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 40705 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2005 07:15:29 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=4slAoV1QH/y+9+RT/hbRyRzbXJKWkRlBBknWoI/SkpK3aFk7B6gb7ZO1WczyAYOcb90E72/1Lq6/Zel6+QXlf18Q6SDDR/oXAbIn/GDCoAQ97gSxz3JpFyzxUT4o295You3zI8+nByRPruaf4yRFfEg/NEbqUYMCFuskrq2e9LQ= ; Message-ID: <20050404071529.40703.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.114] by web41905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 00:15:29 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:15:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20050403175405.69137.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Thank you! for the guidance! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I want to thank Everyone for the Guidance. It has helped. I am going to do nothing. Just ride it out... Thank you for letting me Vent! Satine --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 07:35:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34BZ0OZ020292 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:35:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34BXuLV006275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 05:33:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34BXhXm021445; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 05:33:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34BXebu021429 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 05:33:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2inikbn.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.81.119] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1DIPpr-0004BQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 07:33:39 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200504040554.j345rXHm025317@net.indra.com> References: <200504040554.j345rXHm025317@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:33:34 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Cotton X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:54 PM -0600 4/3/05, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >I am >curious as to how many products such as those mentioned were >manufactured, then sent abroad as completed imports (draperies, napkins, >tablecloths, etc.), and how many were made at the end of the line from >the fabric as it was available. In the latter case, then, what would >stop anyone from making anything they wanted from the material? Style and fashion Would you wear say burlap to the office? It's a frustrating thing--technologically you might have X (think Viking pink!) BUT the 64,000 lira question is was it worn? As a fashion challenged person in the Modern world and a techno geek in dyes and fibers I find many of my questions lie in the was it stylish, or even worn range.... Ta Carol-- drying out after ~7 inches of rain in less than 12 days.... -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 09:43:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34DhLsl022379 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:43:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34DedLV014318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:40:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34DeS0M001529; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:40:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34DeMjX001473 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:40:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.30] (p14.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.30]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j34Dbd025490 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:37:40 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:48:14 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Her boyfriend is also in the SCA so she has him to assist her. I imagine she will just be wearing her normal undergarments. She wants a placket under the back opening. On Apr 4, 2005, at 1:20 AM, otsisto wrote: > Before you settle on the back, perhaps you need to know how well the > customer will be able to lace it closed if it is in the back. Will she > needing assistance to lace herself up? > Will she be wearing a shift under the gown? > > De > > -----Original Message----- > I'm going to put the closure on the back, not at the > sides. > > Sylrog > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 10:44:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34Ei4l9023808 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:44:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34EfmLV020207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:41:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34EfVhv053227; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:41:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34EfLc9053113 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:41:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F2AA38CB9 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:41:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p410.socket.net [64.85.217.156]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 21319C609 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:41:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:41:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ummmm...I don't think that the times she dresses in the women's bathroom that her boyfriend will be able to help and you do not always have someone there who is able to help. But if lacing in the back is all you can sew then thats all you can sew. Another thing you can do for lacing holes if you don't want to make button holes is use hooks and eyes. Pairing the eyes with eyes and hooks with hooks. Bottom half of the opening would have hooks and the upper half with eyes. Does that make sense? De -----Original Message----- Her boyfriend is also in the SCA so she has him to assist her. I imagine she will just be wearing her normal undergarments. She wants a placket under the back opening. On Apr 4, 2005, at 1:20 AM, otsisto wrote: _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 11:09:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34F98P3023969 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:09:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34F7AM5023013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34EpHvD062080; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:51:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j34EpE40062014 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:51:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from unknown (HELO the-new-beast.sbcglobal.net) (justin.barrett@sbcglobal.net@68.93.120.119 with login) by smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2005 14:51:12 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050404091854.03f1c2e0@mail.justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 09:27:31 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett In-Reply-To: <20050404055325.98898.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050404055325.98898.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lady Satine stepped close to the microphone and whispered: > >I have a question for Adele about Bliaults.... Would you now of any > websites taht have information about them and possible construction???? > or good reference books I may be able to find...... Thanks > > > > >Hi Satine-- > >Sadly, no-- just the websites I suggested in my email. This is well >outside my area. There is a new speculative pamphlet that the SCA put out recently about the bliaut. If you go to http://www.sca.org/members/marketplace.html and order Compleat Anacronist number 124 - summer 2004 (it's so new it isn't on their list, but you can probably get it hard copy) "Elles'Habille en Bliaut: Haute Coutre of the 12th Century" by Grace Payne I don't agree with the construction speculation she uses, I really like the number of actual statues that she sites. Great bibliography as well. The biggest problem with the Bliaut is that there is so little evidence of it, and it's almost all French, or so it seems. Good luck Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 11:58:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34FwB7c024225 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:58:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34FtkLV028651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:55:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34FtZH4023479; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:55:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from providenceday.org (treebeard.providenceday.org [66.193.73.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34FtW7Y023365 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:55:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from grace.morris@providenceday.org) Received: from [172.20.1.3] (HELO providenceday.org) by providenceday.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.6) with ESMTP id 2920921 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:56:04 -0400 Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:55:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Grace Morris To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050404091854.03f1c2e0@mail.justinanimator.com> Message-Id: <040A9996-A522-11D9-B9DB-000393DA0BCC@providenceday.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The bliaut is discussed/argued AT LENGTH by many very knowledgeable people on an SCA yahoo list. (12thcenturygarb-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) If you are interested in very serious discussions, this is the place to go. In the meantime: http://bliautlady.50megs.com/ http://www.chateau-michel.org/belle_bliaut.htm http://web.comhem.se/~u41200125/rutigbliaut.html Grace/Jessamyn jessamynscloset.com On Monday, April 4, 2005, at 10:27 AM, Genie Barrett wrote: > Lady Satine stepped close to the microphone and whispered: > >> >I have a question for Adele about Bliaults.... Would you now of any >> websites taht have information about them and possible >> construction???? or good reference books I may be able to find...... >> Thanks >> > >> > >> Hi Satine-- >> >> Sadly, no-- just the websites I suggested in my email. This is well >> outside my area. > > There is a new speculative pamphlet that the SCA put out recently > about the bliaut. If you go to > http://www.sca.org/members/marketplace.html and order Compleat > Anacronist number 124 - summer 2004 (it's so new it isn't on their > list, but you can probably get it hard copy) "Elles'Habille en > Bliaut: Haute Coutre of the 12th Century" by Grace Payne > > I don't agree with the construction speculation she uses, I really > like the number of actual statues that she sites. Great bibliography > as well. The biggest problem with the Bliaut is that there is so > little evidence of it, and it's almost all French, or so it seems. > > Good luck > Genie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 12:04:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34G4sdr024256 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:04:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34G3ULV029571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:03:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34G2m2R030305; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:03:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34G2iam030242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:02:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0083.floodcity.net ([198.93.211.83]:3444 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1DIU2G-0005uq-66 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 12:02:45 -0400 Message-ID: <42516521.6010204@floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 12:02:41 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown References: <5faf019f0fdd8970f090a12e44a1bfeb@ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <5faf019f0fdd8970f090a12e44a1bfeb@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > It's definitely too fitted not to have a closure and since it is not > historically accurate, what would you all suggest? Grommets? Fabric > loops? Rings? I'm going to put the closure on the back, not at the > sides. > > Sylrog what about an inseam hidden zip under the right arm. very popular in the fourties and fifties and good for fitted garments. it would remove the closure method from being a factor in deciding what period it is. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 13:48:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34Hm3wK024954 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:48:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34HkfLV014766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:46:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34HkORx034112; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:46:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34HkLOH034046 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:46:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.109] (p45.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.109]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j34Hhb009803 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:43:37 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:54:12 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, but I'm not understanding you. How can you just put hooks or eyes on both sides of the garment? On Apr 4, 2005, at 8:41 AM, otsisto wrote: > Ummmm...I don't think that the times she dresses in the women's > bathroom > that her boyfriend will be able to help and you do not always have > someone > there who is able to help. But if lacing in the back is all you can > sew then > thats all you can sew. > > Another thing you can do for lacing holes > if you don't want to make button holes is use hooks and eyes. Pairing > the > eyes with eyes and hooks with hooks. Bottom half of the opening would > have > hooks and the upper half with eyes. Does that make sense? > > De > > -----Original Message----- > Her boyfriend is also in the SCA so she has him to assist her. I > imagine she will just be wearing her normal undergarments. She wants > a placket under the back opening. > > On Apr 4, 2005, at 1:20 AM, otsisto wrote: > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 13:51:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34HpYg7024990 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:51:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34HoSLV015176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:50:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34HoRkb037940; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:50:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41905.mail.yahoo.com (web41905.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j34Hl83q034740 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:47:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 24157 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2005 17:47:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=siwmtPimbl0OyiMqfWwXXfXhLbjwfJlm2fgMNjksMFqOYJCXkqX+t7hDZ0B5gab2HNIrHskv+3nigLp3W2e02di3TJVSqdxiRfU2/1fkPD2pspaAH/MyJI42DNjS1EOyeW54LZoZKkub7XHGah5HjQR1kYW186+AkQfwH1Zukj8= ; Message-ID: <20050404174702.24155.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.119] by web41905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:47:02 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:47:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Than you for the sites I will check them out! Satine Grace Morris wrote: The bliaut is discussed/argued AT LENGTH by many very knowledgeable people on an SCA yahoo list. (12thcenturygarb-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) If you are interested in very serious discussions, this is the place to go. In the meantime: http://bliautlady.50megs.com/ http://www.chateau-michel.org/belle_bliaut.htm http://web.comhem.se/~u41200125/rutigbliaut.html Grace/Jessamyn jessamynscloset.com On Monday, April 4, 2005, at 10:27 AM, Genie Barrett wrote: > Lady Satine stepped close to the microphone and whispered: > >> >I have a question for Adele about Bliaults.... Would you now of any >> websites taht have information about them and possible >> construction???? or good reference books I may be able to find...... >> Thanks >> > >> > >> Hi Satine-- >> >> Sadly, no-- just the websites I suggested in my email. This is well >> outside my area. > > There is a new speculative pamphlet that the SCA put out recently > about the bliaut. If you go to > http://www.sca.org/members/marketplace.html and order Compleat > Anacronist number 124 - summer 2004 (it's so new it isn't on their > list, but you can probably get it hard copy) "Elles'Habille en > Bliaut: Haute Coutre of the 12th Century" by Grace Payne > > I don't agree with the construction speculation she uses, I really > like the number of actual statues that she sites. Great bibliography > as well. The biggest problem with the Bliaut is that there is so > little evidence of it, and it's almost all French, or so it seems. > > Good luck > Genie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 14:02:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34I2GdZ025076 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:02:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34I0hLV016551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:00:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34I0cEP047590; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:00:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34I0XQ0047481 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:00:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j34I0Wef001927 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050404135905.01e5cbf0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 14:00:30 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050404091854.03f1c2e0@mail.justinanimator.com> References: <20050404055325.98898.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> <20050404055325.98898.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Glad to know I'm not the only person with some serious doubts about that construction theory. Maybe I'll go read those other lists... see if anyone is thinking in the same direction I am. Bridgette. >I don't agree with the construction speculation she uses, I really like >the number of actual statues that she sites. Great bibliography as >well. The biggest problem with the Bliaut is that there is so little >evidence of it, and it's almost all French, or so it seems. > >Good luck >Genie Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 14:05:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34I5bWl025092 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:05:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34I4XLV016988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:04:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34I4VPH051261; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:04:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail12.mdx.safepages.com (mail12.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.242]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34I4S78051153 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:04:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 8231EB952; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:04:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust74.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.74]) by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 00689B5D4 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:04:26 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <019901c53940$e119c5e0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:05:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] historical movie costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j34I5bWl025092 Status: RO Does anyone know of websites that might display historically themed movie or theatre costumes from the past, ideally from the 1930s-1960s? I'm not looking for _accurate_ costumes, just for nicely done examples of the popular conceptions of medieval clothing--costumes from 'Robin Hood,' 'Camelot', 'A CT Yankee in King Arthur's Court,' that sort of thing. Something along the lines of the link recently provided for theatrical costumes from that Canadian museum (their name slips my mind, unfortunately) would be perfect. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 14:15:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34IFX8b025160 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:15:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34IEELV018601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:14:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34IDmPv060220; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:13:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail14.mdx.safepages.com (mail14.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.244]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34IDfNT060096 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:13:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 069EE1ECD91; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:13:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust74.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.74]) by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8E8E61ECD7D for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:13:38 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01cb01c53942$2c17cff0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <040A9996-A522-11D9-B9DB-000393DA0BCC@providenceday.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:14:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could someone give a quick description of this new, speculative theory of bliaut construction? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 14:47:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34IlCji025351 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:47:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34IjrLV023956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:45:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34Ijl2v092736; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:45:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34Ijf4M092668 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:45:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lcijm.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.74.118] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1DIWZq-0002DP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 14:45:35 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200504041801.j34I0Jm3047238@net.indra.com> References: <200504041801.j34I0Jm3047238@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:45:27 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:01 PM -0600 4/4/05, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >Well Drat! Just got word from Barnes & Noble that this title would not >be available on the published date, something about 'delayed at the >publisher', and they would email be again if it was going to be over 30 >days. Anyone else received this notice? Yup--that's what ya get for going for the lowest price on the planet I can wait! Sort of... Ta Carol, who managed to save enough on this and AS Dress to afford both...and then some OOP books turned up--SIGH Including ML Ryder for mega $$$$ -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 15:10:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34JAB4a025631 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:10:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34J8wLV027229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:08:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34J8bH5013332; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:08:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34J8SI7013164 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:08:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j34J8Qef001350 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050404145436.01e51e50@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:08:26 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns In-Reply-To: <01cb01c53942$2c17cff0$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <040A9996-A522-11D9-B9DB-000393DA0BCC@providenceday.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi there... I don't usually paddle around in the Bliaut pool... but I follow sewing technology and construction techniques almost fanatically. What struck me as incongruous about the construction in the "Creative Anachronist" was that the author used a complex compound curve to form the join between the body and the skirt. This is bliaut... this is "early medieval" we have centuries to go before we see our other first curve, the armhole. So the proposal that the bliaut used a compound curve is - in my opinion - out there. I won't say impossible. But I will say improbable. I think it much more likely that the lower portion in the front that the author was trying to create is a result of the side lacing causing the sides of the torso to ruck-up and rest on the hip bones, while the center front of the skirt hangs unsupported from the front of the bodice piece (if you go for separate pieces theory) causing the front of the body to hang lower. Resulting in the appearance of a curved base to the body portion. Bridgette >Could someone give a quick description of this new, speculative theory of >bliaut construction? > >-E House >_______________________________________________ Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 15:19:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34JJnCM025781 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:19:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34JIALV028114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:18:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34JI4Sn021257; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:18:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34JI0kx021163 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:18:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.165] (pm5-165.eos.net [205.133.149.165]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j34JHrDl027741 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:17:54 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 16:11:29 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200504040553.j345rXHl025317@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] vestment question(s) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Today while watching the Pope's body being moved to St. Peter's, I saw a vestment I can't identify. This isn't remarkable -- I don't know them all -- but I would like to know what it's called. I saw a couple of them, all made out of gorgeous red and gold embroidered fabric. Instead of a chasuble, which I think is always a sideless garment, this looked almost like what I think of as a herald's tabard. It had sleeves, and looked like a very stiff t-tunic. Does anyone know what that is? Also, one of the bishops (the camerlengo, maybe?) was wearing a half-circle bishop's cape, also made out of that amazing embroidered red fabric. It was very stiff and made a sort of self-collar in the back. I've noticed that on bishop's copes before, but I never wondered -- is that the way all ceremonial half-circle cloaks would have looked in the middle ages? Or is it simply a function of the very stiff fabric these particular copes are made of? I didn't tape it, but I will take another look at these during the nightly news. And I'm sure various commemmorative publications will come out that will show many of the ceremonies. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 15:39:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34Jd3mZ025897 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:39:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34JbpLV000546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:37:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34JbkK0038876; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:37:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cheetah.mail.utk.edu (cheetah.mail.utk.edu [160.36.178.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34JbWW9038605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:37:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@utk.edu) Received: from webmail.utk.edu (camel.usg.utk.edu [160.36.178.34]) by cheetah.mail.utk.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j34JaQSC030040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:36:26 -0400 X-WebMail-UserID: sfarmer Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:37:30 -0400 From: Susan Farmer To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002252 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns Message-ID: <4275B624@webmail.utk.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Infinite Mobile Delivery (Hydra) SMTP v3.62.01 X-Spam-Status: Message recipients not local. X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.45 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Could someone give a quick description of this new, speculative theory of > bliaut construction? > > -E House > Two pieces -- waist seam and all that. And she doesn't take kindly to differing points of view. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Botany Department, University of Tennessee http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 15:45:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34JjJdI025928 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:45:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34JhqLV001658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:43:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34JhhXO045017; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:43:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav15.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.87]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34JhaQU044818 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:43:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:43:30 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by BAY106-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 19:43:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <040A9996-A522-11D9-B9DB-000393DA0BCC@providenceday.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20050404145436.01e51e50@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:43:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2005 19:43:30.0368 (UTC) FILETIME=[94078400:01C5394E] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I think it much more likely that the lower portion in the front that the > author was trying to create is a result of the side lacing causing the > sides of the torso to ruck-up and rest on the hip bones, while the center > front of the skirt hangs unsupported from the front of the bodice piece > (if you go for separate pieces theory) causing the front of the body to > hang lower. Resulting in the appearance of a curved base to the body > portion. I've done mine as one piece, I really don't elieve in the separate pieces theory. I did it as a T-tunic and put it on, then my mom pinned me into it on the sides so I could cut curves and then I laced it on. If I were to do it again, I wouldn't lace the sides, I'd sew myself in. But even with the sides cut out, it puckers because of the tension, a little like the images. If I were to sew it closed, it would definitely pucker and ride up on the sides. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 16:09:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34K91sc026087 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:09:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34K88LV004721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34K80DS068288; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:08:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34K7sgb068113 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:07:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DIXrS-0002MG-9Q for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 20:07:51 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:06:37 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns References: <040A9996-A522-11D9-B9DB-000393DA0BCC@providenceday.org> <01cb01c53942$2c17cff0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <5.2.1.1.2.20050404145436.01e51e50@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20050404145436.01e51e50@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<1$0N+RHd4zNsQH4tCLkTWOQ0IV>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've always felt that even separate pieces is so "out of time" as to be very unlikely. Jean M Stewart wrote > >Hi there... > >I don't usually paddle around in the Bliaut pool... but I follow sewing >technology and construction techniques almost fanatically. What >struck me as incongruous about the construction in the "Creative >Anachronist" was that the author used a complex compound curve to form >the join between the body and the skirt. > >This is bliaut... this is "early medieval" we have centuries to go >before we see our other first curve, the armhole. So the proposal >that the bliaut used a compound curve is - in my opinion - out there. >I won't say impossible. But I will say improbable. > >I think it much more likely that the lower portion in the front that >the author was trying to create is a result of the side lacing causing >the sides of the torso to ruck-up and rest on the hip bones, while the >center front of the skirt hangs unsupported from the front of the >bodice piece (if you go for separate pieces theory) causing the front >of the body to hang lower. Resulting in the appearance of a curved base >to the body portion. > >Bridgette > > >>Could someone give a quick description of this new, speculative theory >>of bliaut construction? >> >>-E House >>_______________________________________________ > >Mari Stewart >Webmaster >College of Veterinary Medicine >Cornell University > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 16:18:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34KIgop026132 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34KHULV005702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:17:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34KGAsg074939; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:16:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34KFCFK074172 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:15:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DIXyZ-0003CI-7J for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 20:15:11 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:14:02 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If it's an SCA event, and you're changing in the women's bathroom, there will be others doing the same who will be more than happy to help. Jean otsisto wrote >Ummmm...I don't think that the times she dresses in the women's bathroom >that her boyfriend will be able to help and you do not always have someone >there who is able to help. But if lacing in the back is all you can sew then >thats all you can sew. > >Another thing you can do for lacing holes >if you don't want to make button holes is use hooks and eyes. Pairing the >eyes with eyes and hooks with hooks. Bottom half of the opening would have >hooks and the upper half with eyes. Does that make sense? > >De > >-----Original Message----- >Her boyfriend is also in the SCA so she has him to assist her. I >imagine she will just be wearing her normal undergarments. She wants >a placket under the back opening. > >On Apr 4, 2005, at 1:20 AM, otsisto wrote: > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 16:36:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34KaW9p026204 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:36:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34KZJLV008204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34KZBfn092842; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:35:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j34KYeFF092351 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:34:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail24.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.164]) by smtpout02.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBFDKF8AM8BU2A for (sender ); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:34:06 -0700 (PST) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn78wrHhcsUA+vmjB4R5IYeWMcZqKeUEqS8A== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail24.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KPR5RCSZ; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 13:33:31 PDT Received: from [24.14.76.2] by webmail24.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 20:32:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.76.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" X-UOL-SENDER: penhalion@juno.com Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 20:32:49 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns X-Mailer: Juno Webmail Version 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050404.133331.10313.213600@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:1:2526960136 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I make no claim to be an expert on bliauts.....or even exceptionally knowledgable about them. But they have interested me for years just because, in terms of the evolution of dress, they are so weird and such a mystery. Years ago when I was at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign (Go Illini!) I found a very interesting cast of one of the cathedral figures dressed in a bliaut at, what was at the time, the World Heritage Museum. I believe they have since moved to a new building and changed the name. Anyway, the figure is larger than life size and shows the details of the bliaut very clearly- you could get up to about 2 feet away from it. The torso portion was very obviously puckered/honeycombed, not just wrinkled, and the effect could not come from simply gathering it into horizontal pleats across the torso. I think that some form of smocking is the likeliest explanation for the form fitting torso combined with the pleated effect in the skirt. The details on the statue ! matched exactly what you would expect from a simple smocking stitch. Now someone is going to chime in with evidence that they didn't do smocking in period and blow my pet theory out of the water! Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 16:59:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34Kx3Ke026278 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:59:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34KvqLV010786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:57:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34KvUUq010803; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:57:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from leopard.mail.utk.edu (leopard.mail.utk.edu [160.36.0.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34KvMYS010690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:57:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@utk.edu) Received: from webmail.utk.edu (camel.usg.utk.edu [160.36.178.34]) by leopard.mail.utk.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j34LCmTp028630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:12:52 -0400 X-WebMail-UserID: sfarmer Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:57:17 -0400 From: Susan Farmer To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002252 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns Message-ID: <42770C6F@webmail.utk.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Infinite Mobile Delivery (Hydra) SMTP v3.62.01 X-Spam-Status: Message recipients not local. X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.45 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I make no claim to be an expert on bliauts.....or even exceptionally knowledga ble about them. But they have interested me for years just because, in terms of the evolution of dress, they are so weird and such a mystery. Years ago when I w as at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign (Go Illini!) I found a very in teresting cast of one of the cathedral figures dressed in a bliaut at, what was at the time, the World Heritage Museum. I believe they have since moved to a new building and changed the name. Anyway, the figure is larger than life size and shows the details of the bliaut very clearly- you could get up to about 2 feet a way from it. The torso portion was very obviously puckered/honeycombed, not just wrinkled, and the effect could not come from simply gathering it into horizonta l pleats across the torso. I think that some form of smocking is the likeliest e xplanation for the form fitting torso combined with the pleated effect in the sk irt. The details on the statue matched exactly what you would expect from a simple smocking stitch. Me too. I suspect that there may be several things hiding under the single term. Anyway, I found the images of these capitals -- they're not the stylaized figures like you have at the Chartres Cathedral -- notice the smocking effect in the upper bodice/torso ... and then I found this one -- notice that the pleats coming out from under the ornamented band at the bottom of the bodice ..... This one almost looks like a separate corsage over a finely pleated gown -- at least to my eyes. Susan/ Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Botany Department, University of Tennessee http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 17:07:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34L7cOr026345 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:07:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34L6dLV011703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:06:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34L6ZNp019234; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:06:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34L6WaD019188 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:06:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (cpe-24-24-24-60.twcny.res.rr.com [24.24.24.60]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j34L6Seg005277 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050404165600.00bad8c8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:06:21 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns In-Reply-To: <20050404.133331.10313.213600@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.2.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.4.4.13 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Who Us?? How about if I chime in with evidence of something like it, whitework... but I would beware of the term smocking... from an alb attributed to Bernulf of Utrecht, ca. 1028-1056. Fleury Lembourg, p. 193. Bridgette >I make no claim to be an expert on bliauts.....or even exceptionally >knowledgable about them. But they have interested me for years just >because, in terms of the evolution of dress, they are so weird and such a >mystery. Years ago when I was at the University of Illinois >Urbana-Champaign (Go Illini!) I found a very interesting cast of one of >the cathedral figures dressed in a bliaut at, what was at the time, the >World Heritage Museum. I believe they have since moved to a new building >and changed the name. Anyway, the figure is larger than life size and >shows the details of the bliaut very clearly- you could get up to about 2 >feet away from it. The torso portion was very obviously >puckered/honeycombed, not just wrinkled, and the effect could not come >from simply gathering it into horizontal pleats across the torso. I think >that some form of smocking is the likeliest explanation for the form >fitting torso combined with the pleated effect in the skirt. The details >on the statue ! > matched exactly what you would expect from a simple smocking stitch. > >Now someone is going to chime in with evidence that they didn't do >smocking in period and blow my pet theory out of the water! > > >Karen >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 17:14:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34LEVkZ026372 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:14:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34LCFLV012494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34LCBK0024260; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:12:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34LC88p024163 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:12:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LMQ9YZS0C0IU378G@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:12:03 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LMQ9YZBHS8IP2KFN@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:12:03 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:12:36 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns In-reply-to: <6.2.1.2.0.20050404091854.03f1c2e0@mail.justinanimator.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4251ADC4.1090708@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050404055325.98898.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050404091854.03f1c2e0@mail.justinanimator.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Genie Barrett wrote: > Lady Satine stepped close to the microphone and whispered: > >> >I have a question for Adele about Bliaults.... Would you now of any >> websites taht have information about them and possible >> construction???? or good reference books I may be able to find...... >> Thanks >> > >> > >> Hi Satine-- >> >> Sadly, no-- just the websites I suggested in my email. This is well >> outside my area. > > > There is a new speculative pamphlet that the SCA put out recently > about the bliaut. If you go to > http://www.sca.org/members/marketplace.html and order Compleat > Anacronist number 124 - summer 2004 (it's so new it isn't on their > list, but you can probably get it hard copy) "Elles'Habille en > Bliaut: Haute Coutre of the 12th Century" by Grace Payne > > I don't agree with the construction speculation she uses, I really > like the number of actual statues that she sites. Great bibliography > as well. The biggest problem with the Bliaut is that there is so > little evidence of it, and it's almost all French, or so it seems. > There's also "The Bliaut: A Reconstruction Based on Primary Source Material" by Rowena le Sarjent in Tournaments Illuminated #109 (now Roheisa le Sarjent) And this article by the same author: http://www.sca.org.nz/collegium/costume/wardrobe_12C_frankish_noblewoman.php I disagree strongly with some of Roheisa's conclusions, but her work is almost certainly worth a read. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 17:16:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34LG2pD026381 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:16:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34LExLV012884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:14:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34LEuCJ026771; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:14:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34LEnCv026577 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:14:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005040421144201400do8e1e>; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:14:42 +0000 Message-ID: <007201c5395b$52488a20$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] vestment question(s) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:14:43 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail, I used assist our priest with neighborhood masses. He always explained to the parishioners the names and brief history of each part the vestments at the beginning of the each mass. One of the best places I have found with definitions of the vestments can be found at the Catholic Encyclopedia, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15388a.htm . If you see the vestment on the CE website, let me know. I believe I noticed in today's procession there were a few priests of other faiths. That may be what you saw. I did tape the procession. I will be watching it again tomorrow with my husband. I will try to look and see the vestments that you mentioned. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 17:22:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34LMtT6026419 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:22:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34LLFLV013786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:21:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34LL5u3032491; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:21:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34LL2mj032337 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:21:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005040421205301200phrfae>; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:20:53 +0000 Message-ID: <007601c5395c$2fbe1cd0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007201c5395b$52488a20$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Subject: Re: [h-cost] vestment question(s) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:20:54 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail, I forgot to mention, that the Catholic Encyclopedia website is really busy right now. You may need to wait a few seconds for the site to load. Also another page of interest is the Liturgical Colours. The colors are very important in the Catholic church and have a lot of symbolism behind them. Here is a webpage about them: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04134a.htm . Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 18:07:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34M7CA9026597 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:07:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34M6MLV018477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34M6HWK072806; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:06:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34M6DSu072746 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:06:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5899351EA for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:06:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t4p348.socket.net [64.85.223.94]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 10AB1D404 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:06:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:06:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you are lacing it. You run the lace through the eyes like you would a button hole and then latch it on to the hooks as you go up. The Hooks and eyes would be on the inside of the garment. Do not get the tiny h&es, get the ones that your cord will go though. Does that help? De -----Original Message----- Sorry, but I'm not understanding you. How can you just put hooks or eyes on both sides of the garment? On Apr 4, 2005, at 8:41 AM, otsisto wrote: _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 18:15:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34MFAuB026628 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:15:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34MD9LV019210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34MCjnc078459; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:12:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34MCTcT078264 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:12:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7F83916D for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:12:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t4p348.socket.net [64.85.223.94]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F952D453 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:12:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:12:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have learned through experience that you may not always have help. And having to go out and find someone to lace up your back can be a bit drafty. Personally, if the garment is to be my "everyday" wear or my only garb, then I want it to be something that I can put on with ease. For others, (I have noticed) if it is difficult to put on, it tends to discourage the wearer and can, at times put a bit of a damper on the event. De -----Original Message----- If it's an SCA event, and you're changing in the women's bathroom, there will be others doing the same who will be more than happy to help. Jean _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 19:07:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34N7s18026877 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:07:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34N6fLV026875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:06:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34N6Uis026703; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:06:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51304.mail.yahoo.com (web51304.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j34N6Owh026567 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:06:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 1721 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2005 23:06:17 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=iSAVbDFZ4hXDP0CY8FQgYWCLgWol7bCht0+mPDjSJiQtrykDIir0pZV2SLJaIgXfam7QxEMYimgwPT9ibtQgOOurXEblcpAnuFg1MkkyGF613qwQbnRoGKQU8dbaAG6PjhzxjM+PAtcRo5wlfyCMAoQLX4lQCsoI2vHHYf6W3BQ= ; Message-ID: <20050404230617.1719.qmail@web51304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.183.30.107] by web51304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 16:06:17 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:06:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- "seamstrix@juno.com" wrote: > > bliauts. > I found a very interesting cast of one of the > cathedral figures dressed in a bliaut at, what was > at the time, the World Heritage Museum. > the figure is larger than life > size and shows the details of the bliaut very > clearly- you could get up to about 2 feet away from > it. The torso portion was very obviously > puckered/honeycombed, not just wrinkled, and the > effect could not come from simply gathering it into > horizontal pleats across the torso. I think that > some form of smocking is the likeliest explanation > for the form fitting torso combined with the pleated > effect in the skirt. The details on the statue ! > matched exactly what you would expect from a simple > smocking stitch. > > Karen Except that every honey-comb torso I've ever seen in the bliaut era is going the 'wrong' way to provide useful stretch for fitting a garment. I.e., the statues show horizontal cells, so the stretch is vertical, if it is smocked, not vertically, so any stretch goes around the figure where it's actually needed. And if the cast is of one of the figures from the royal portal at Chartres, allow me to point out the suspiciously regular wrinkling around the ankles of several shepards from the same cathedral. I'm betting it's artistic liscense, that makes untidy wrinkles prettier. A linen tunic of mine, with slightly too-long sleeves, tends towards the horizontal cell wrinkling at the wrists (parallel to the wrist hem, that is) from my movements while wearing it. Certainly not proof, but suggestive. I tend towards the lace or otherwise squish up the side seams longish T-tunic side of the argument, myself. Ann in CT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 19:21:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34NLmWS026899 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:21:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34NKnLV028371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:20:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34NKipJ038313; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:20:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web42101.mail.yahoo.com (web42101.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j34NKYZK038128 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:20:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from faerieglenstudios@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 88126 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2005 23:20:29 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=mxS8XKT7bVl45lV4kCAGa/u4571HOCh+wX2Hal7QbY2bNazuyjcLna1G20YYqGjEbMszVT8SWjjekA+HVQG7EARLKOYbwOGiB/6n+4k2q42oIYNuWwi1Xmh+TBv+iYVoismWGM5XUOlsBhMURxrL6cWsPBLCMcfrbzAFJGlmt4Q= ; Message-ID: <20050404232029.88124.qmail@web42101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.113.91.64] by web42101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 16:20:28 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:20:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jodi Nelson Subject: [h-cost]Costume Con To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks everyone for welcoming me. Kate mentioned Costume Con. What is it and where do I find out about it ? --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 19:59:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j34Nx8Xt027003 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:59:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j34Nw7LV002093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34Nvu32068885; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:57:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34NvqTn068827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:57:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0517.floodcity.net ([198.93.213.9]:3878 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1DIbS5-0008BI-Um for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 19:57:55 -0400 Message-ID: <4251D47D.6020904@floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 19:57:49 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] smooshed waist X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >( She has this incredible ability to smoosh her waist >into this circulation cutting off curcumference,which >frankly looks probably worse then Ms.DD because she >has really high hips , she ends up looking like >a"spade" symbol turned upside down) But she thinks she >look fine so out came the machine,-5 alterations >later.....she's happily smooshed into her 24" waist >size,40" hips. > So remember, smile & nod,eventually she'll see the >light.... > > >>> Melody >> When i was young and thin I excercized my fanny off, but the only place I lost inches was my waist. so from a 36/26/36 I went down to a 36/24/36. That just looked silly and I decide that I didn't ever need to do waiste excercizes again in my life. God gave me the right proportions for my body and any excercise is for stamina and health, not spot loss. LOL not to say I don't need major excercize, but not to make my waist thinner. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 20:30:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j350UZOS027126 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 20:30:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j350TLLV004393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:29:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j350T7sW092785; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:29:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j350T470092725 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:29:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m110.in-tch.com [216.166.191.110]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j350P2o00561 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4251DD15.6070601@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:34:29 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns References: <20050404.133331.10313.213600@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> In-Reply-To: <20050404.133331.10313.213600@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Types of smocking were definitely known and used pre-17th century (although more to control fullness, say in a neckline than all across a torso), but I'm of the (firm) opinion that there are other, possible explanations for the wrinkled bodice thing. I also don't know of anything resembling smocking being known to have coexisted with the bliaut, although there are some anomalies here and there in medieval textiles that show something that sure looks like a type of smocking (like, say, under the arm to control fullness...I can look up the specific source if anyone would like me to). For one, who's to say that it's meant to be taken literally? IIRC, that sort of art/sculpture, *at that time* was highly stylized. As a sculptor or designer of those columns for those cathedrals, you might really want to emphasize and regularize the contrasting horizontal and vertical lines. Other sources depicting similar garments (illos. in manuscripts, etc.) often do show some pulling across the torso, but I haven't seen any that look as "honeycombed" as those statues..... My primary objection to the particular technique espoused in the afore-mentioned _CA_ is not that it doesn't work--it does, indeed, create a similar look. I just don't find it logical in a 12th century context. No other garments that I know at that time had anything *like* a separately cut skirt sewn to a torso, let alone one also pleated or gathered. I'm guessing the separate skirt argument has hung around so long because modern sewers/costumers are familiar with the technique, so they're comfortable interpreting that old, odd style using techniques (separate skirts, complex curved patterns, etc.) that are actually ahistorical for the garments. --sue (long-time SCA member, who's had a 2-decades-long friendly running argument with a friend over just this topic! ;o) seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > I make no claim to be an expert on bliauts.....or even exceptionally > knowledgable about them. But they have interested me for years just > because, in terms of the evolution of dress, they are so weird and > such a mystery. Years ago when I was at the University of Illinois > Urbana-Champaign (Go Illini!) I found a very interesting cast of one > of the cathedral figures dressed in a bliaut at, what was at the > time, the World Heritage Museum. I believe they have since moved to a > new building and changed the name. Anyway, the figure is larger than > life size and shows the details of the bliaut very clearly- you could > get up to about 2 feet away from it. The torso portion was very > obviously puckered/honeycombed, not just wrinkled, and the effect > could not come from simply gathering it into horizontal pleats across > the torso. I think that some form of smocking is the likeliest > explanation for the form fitting torso combined with the pleated > effect in the skirt. The details on the statue ! matched exactly what > you would expect from a simple smocking stitch. > > Now someone is going to chime in with evidence that they didn't do > smocking in period and blow my pet theory out of the water! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 21:03:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3513uYP027240 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:03:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3512eLV006623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3512ZOl018534; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:02:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3512XR7018373 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:02:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail30.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.170]) by smtpout04.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBFD25AA5RNY72 for (sender ); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:01:20 -0700 (PST) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn78wrHhcsUA+vULDOOq5EG8eL/ZhQzvsVLQ== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail30.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KPSL2S7P; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:00:49 PDT Received: from [24.14.76.2] by webmail30.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:55:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.76.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" X-UOL-SENDER: penhalion@juno.com Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:55:03 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns X-Mailer: Juno Webmail Version 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050404.180049.28246.218704@webmail30.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 3:5:2340859820 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anne Catelli Wrote: Except that every honey-comb torso I've ever seen in the bliaut era is going the 'wrong' way to provide useful stretch for fitting a garment. I.e., the statues show horizontal cells, so the stretch is vertical, if it is smocked, not vertically, so any stretch goes around the figure where it's actually needed. And that is a very valid point. When not under tension, smocking cells tend to have more length than width. However, I postulate that the depiction in question shows the smocking under noticable tension due to lacing at the side to bring the garment tightly against the body. This would tend to distort the smocking cells and produce the shape of cells depicted on the statue. I gotta go back to the museum and try to find that statue. I now have a spiffy little digital camera and I will take pictures of the parts in question so that I don't have to try to describe something from a 15 year old memory. Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 21:37:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j351beRS027393 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:37:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j351aWLV009077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:36:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j351aPN9043743; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:36:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.37.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j351aHCj043593 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:36:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Message-ID: <20050405013611.91672.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.225.130.78] by web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 21:36:11 EDT Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:36:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Carroll-Clark Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > This one almost looks like a separate corsage over a > finely pleated gown -- at > least to my eyes. The problem with the "corsage" theory is that I suspect it came from people doing exactly what we're doing--looking at statuary and making guesses about what we're seeing. Which is fine--but I've never found evidence of a separate, corset-like garment from any period preceeding the bliaut or immediately after the bliaut--and 12th century tailors, being generally conservative, would not have (in my opinion) learned a new technique and simply discarded it after a few years. Nor is there any description of a corset-like garment in contemporary literature--while we *do* have descriptions of side laced garments. So for me, it's pretty clear that the bliaut was probably side-laced. How it was actually cut, and how much from the statuary is artistic license, and how much the fabrics affected things remain for me the fascinating mysteries. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 23:09:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3539oD9027828 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:09:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3538OLV015467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:08:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35387fa012488; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:08:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35385L9012393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:08:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0408.floodcity.net ([198.93.212.154]:4069 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1DIeQ4-0007Ii-Aj for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 23:08:01 -0400 Message-ID: <4252010E.4080802@floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 23:07:58 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO like old timey shoes and some work boots today, hooks to catch the lace and then the loops you would normally hook the hooks through used together you thread the laces through instead, like you would eyelets. maybe you have a hunter or other in your family that you could view the boots? hiking boots have them too. not all boots but lots do. Kitty Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > Sorry, but I'm not understanding you. How can you just put hooks or > eyes on both sides of the garment? > On Apr 4, 2005, at 8:41 AM, otsisto wrote: > >> Ummmm...I don't think that the times she dresses in the women's bathroom >> that her boyfriend will be able to help and you do not always have >> someone >> there who is able to help. But if lacing in the back is all you can >> sew then >> thats all you can sew. >> >> Another thing you can do for lacing holes >> if you don't want to make button holes is use hooks and eyes. Pairing >> the >> eyes with eyes and hooks with hooks. Bottom half of the opening would >> have >> hooks and the upper half with eyes. Does that make sense? >> >> De > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 23:22:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j353M2Vb027868 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:22:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j353KvLV016349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:20:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j353KpS4022362; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:20:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j353Kna2022336 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:20:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DIecT-0001ku-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 20:20:49 -0700 Message-ID: <42520419.4030201@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 20:20:57 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20050404071926.63748.qmail@web41809.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050404071926.63748.qmail@web41809.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] was: No taste in corsets or fashions Who is Ms D.D.? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Who is Ms D.D.? Melody Watts wrote: >( She has this incredible ability to smoosh her waist >into this circulation cutting off curcumference,which >frankly looks probably worse then Ms.DD because she >has really high hips , she ends up looking like >a"spade" symbol turned upside down) > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 4 23:22:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j353MnXQ027873 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:22:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j353LcLV016379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:21:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j353Lcj6022907; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:21:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j353LYcY022753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:21:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j354aZXu024895 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:36:36 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:21:24 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200504041801.j34I0Jm3047238@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200504042321.24203.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 04 April 2005 2:45 pm, fastusminimus wrote: > At 12:01 PM -0600 4/4/05, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > >Well Drat! Just got word from Barnes & Noble that this title would not > >be available on the published date, something about 'delayed at the > >publisher', and they would email be again if it was going to be over 30 > >days. Anyone else received this notice? Yes, I did, too. > -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 00:25:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j354PkCl028089 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:25:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j354JmLV020806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:19:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j354JSCP063728; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:19:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j354JPPk063677 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:19:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28099 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:34:00 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:33:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200504042321.24203.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] MC&T journal? was: untitled post X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 4 Apr 2005, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Monday 04 April 2005 2:45 pm, fastusminimus wrote: > > At 12:01 PM -0600 4/4/05, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > >Well Drat! Just got word from Barnes & Noble that this title would not > > >be available on the published date, something about 'delayed at the > > >publisher', and they would email be again if it was going to be over 30 > > >days. Anyone else received this notice? > > Yes, I did, too. I missed that first post, but I'm seeing answers to it now. Was this about the Medieval Clothing & Textiles journal? I know that Boydell (in England) claims to be shipping now, but I don't know how long it takes for books to reach secondary distributors outside of England. For those who haven't bought yet, today I received a batch of flyers that I may distribute to my colleagues -- and they include a discount code that brings the price down to $37.50. That's not as good as the Barnes & Noble price, last I looked. But if you want that discount, please e-mail me directly. I consider the members of this list my colleagues, and am happy to offer you the deal. However, please do *not* forward the above paragraph elsewhere, as I cannot claim that the members of several dozen costume lists are my colleagues ;-) Something else I should mention: I've tried to be very explicit in my postings on this list about the nature of MC&T -- it's an academic journal (in the form of an annual hardbound volume), and as such it contains a group of highly in-depth papers on a handful of disconnected topics. It should be very useful to people who are doing serious research in those particular topics, but I don't want anyone to think that this is a general reference volume for the average costumer. I truly expected most people to plan on borrowing copies through libraries, and I've been stunned and impressed by the number of people who are buying their own copies -- I hope on the basis of having read the volume contents (posted in my messages, and also at http://www.boydell.co.uk/43831236.HTM). However, based on some some messages that I've been getting lately, I'm worrying that the name of the journal is now being tossed around various lists as a "must-have new reference book" for re-enactors. Anyone buying on the basis of title alone, thinking that this is a general book about medieval clothing and textiles, will be very disappointed, and I really don't want that to happen! So, if any of you are on any such lists and hear any such talk, please set people straight: This is an academic journal, and a much-needed one, in an active research field that is producing much new work. But it is a collection of scholarly essays on disparate specialized topics, not a general reference. BTW, I am now in the throes of editing Vol. 2. The lineup so far includes papers on Renaissance "flea furs"; royal costume in Irish literature and archaeology of the Viking period; clothmaking as a literary device in French 12th-c. romance; cloth trade in Paris in the 13th and 14th centuries; attitudes about clothing in late medieval English literature and sumptuary law; 15th-century textile cleaning techniques; and the English Renaissance embroidered jacket. --Robin =============================================================== Robin Netherton // robin@nightowl.net Editor, Medieval Clothing & Textiles "No student knows his subject. The most he knows is where and how to find out the things he does not know." -- Woodrow Wilson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 00:49:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j354npeo028181 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j354YFLV021796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j354Y69g072997; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:34:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j354Y3wb072874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:34:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j355n4gT025909 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 01:49:05 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] MC&T journal? was: untitled post Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:33:52 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200504050033.52786.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 05 April 2005 12:33 am, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Mon, 4 Apr 2005, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > On Monday 04 April 2005 2:45 pm, fastusminimus wrote: > > > At 12:01 PM -0600 4/4/05, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > > >Well Drat! Just got word from Barnes & Noble that this title would > > > > not be available on the published date, something about 'delayed at > > > > the publisher', and they would email be again if it was going to be > > > > over 30 days. Anyone else received this notice? > > > > Yes, I did, too. > > I missed that first post, but I'm seeing answers to it now. Was this about > the Medieval Clothing & Textiles journal? That was what I was talking about, at least. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 01:43:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j355hIEh028390 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 01:43:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j355bmLV025255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:37:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j355bd6e013986; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:37:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com (mailout04.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j355bZpm013940 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:37:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dgandh@t-online.de) Received: from fwd30.aul.t-online.de by mailout04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1DIgkp-000420-01; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:37:35 +0200 Received: from gandolf (GMJT7iZVYelJ+xm+F-X4vnvnKUa+jQsG3DcPNH4H4ki+0LvEUcQQZb@[62.158.32.21]) by fwd30.sul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1DIgko-04LTvc0; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:37:34 +0200 From: "dgandh" To: Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:37:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcU5oZCvoOWedFipQJavv4Rdn6+CdA== Message-ID: <1DIgko-04LTvc0@fwd30.sul.t-online.de> X-ID: GMJT7iZVYelJ+xm+F-X4vnvnKUa+jQsG3DcPNH4H4ki+0LvEUcQQZb X-TOI-MSGID: d91c20c8-ca5a-4905-91c9-37132af1bc69 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Threee copies of every message X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe I have something set wrong but I am getting 3 copies of every messages from this list. which is playing havoc with my in box. Am I doing something wrong? Greg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 01:48:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j355mV5h028401 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 01:48:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j355jgLV025536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:45:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j355jdVh019066; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:45:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j355jZf1019019 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:45:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1F6390FC for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:45:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p151.socket.net [64.85.214.153]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EE0D0C3F8 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:45:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] was: No taste in corsets or fashions Who is Ms D.D.? Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:45:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <42520419.4030201@earthlink.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think she means Ms DD = Ms Double D as in bra size. De Who is Ms D.D.? Melody Watts wrote: >( She has this incredible ability to smoosh her waist >into this circulation cutting off curcumference,which >frankly looks probably worse then Ms.DD because she >has really high hips , she ends up looking like >a"spade" symbol turned upside down) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 02:01:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3561P4M028599 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 02:01:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j355t9LV025878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:55:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j355t2CM025035; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:55:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav12.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j355sw71024933 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:54:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:54:53 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV12.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 05:54:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42770C6F@webmail.utk.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 01:54:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 01:54:57 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2005 05:54:53.0442 (UTC) FILETIME=[FCD86620:01C539A3] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3561P4M028599 Status: RO and then I found this one -- notice that the pleats coming out from under the ornamented band at the bottom of the bodice ..... This one almost looks like a separate corsage over a finely pleated gown -- at least to my eyes. Susan/ Jerusha Could you please re-post this link or give me another way to get there? I would really like to see this and I keep getting error messages. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 02:03:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3563gRo029361 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 02:03:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j355taLV025942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:55:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j355tajp025393; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:55:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41905.mail.yahoo.com (web41905.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j355tXBw025308 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:55:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 30790 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Apr 2005 05:55:28 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=zBL5TYKvPC8Kr6+IHMTp1LhCViR34XEkCE41jys1RXPPRVig29ygV7T/SUFoh1R+gkgYLaH2/AYnhkcia1AE7BLx6kSprz/kq62PzOb6IO//hAg0OJumuA72of8JFblgEvnTpGo4ITWnIuGosJeMNgz1GXnAC5osClHBoOJ9png= ; Message-ID: <20050405055528.30788.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.132] by web41905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 22:55:28 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:55:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] was: No taste in corsets or fashions Who is Ms D.D.? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Someone I know who is being sill with her re-creations...... I needed advice on how to deal with a situation and the wonderful people here helped me out Imensely!!! I want to than you all for the Guidance and pep talk! It has helped Satine Wicked Frau wrote: Who is Ms D.D.? Melody Watts wrote: >( She has this incredible ability to smoosh her waist >into this circulation cutting off curcumference,which >frankly looks probably worse then Ms.DD because she >has really high hips , she ends up looking like >a"spade" symbol turned upside down) > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 07:51:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35Bpeiq030326 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:51:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35BoSLV008100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 05:50:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35BoB6O057043; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 05:50:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35Bo7G4056925 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 05:50:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.202]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050405114953.HTKJ11805.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 06:49:53 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050405063958.02b82c30@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 06:49:31 -0500 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bliauts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Many years ago (when I was much thinner), I made a Bliaut of each of the theories. I tend against the smocking, and separate piece theories myself. I did find a few statues from other churches of the period with this style but not many. Something that I did find quite helpful (and everyone seems to ignore) were metalwork objects where one could clearly see the artistic stylized folds. There is an arm reliquery (sp?) in the Walters Art Gallery in Baltimore that is a good example. Beth Matney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 08:04:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35C4Yr4030910 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 08:04:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35C3eLV011690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 06:03:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35C3bCF067478; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 06:03:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35C3W43067376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 06:03:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j35BvKmT005441 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:57:20 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42527E92.7080503@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:03:30 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts References: <6.0.0.22.0.20050405063958.02b82c30@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050405063958.02b82c30@mail.alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > Something that I did find quite helpful (and > everyone seems to ignore) were metalwork objects where one could clearly > see the artistic stylized folds. There seems to be a dearth of "let's search text sources for descriptions" too. Probably because it's difficult, but it might shed some light on the question. Possibly there are professional costume historians doing that. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent Binary-numbered clock & Geek Mandalas! http://www.cafeshops.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 08:52:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35Cqb88031712 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 08:52:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35CpHLV022482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 06:51:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35CpBpp000947; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 06:51:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from providenceday.org (treebeard.providenceday.org [66.193.73.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35Cp88n000881 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 06:51:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from grace.morris@providenceday.org) Received: from [172.20.1.3] (HELO providenceday.org) by providenceday.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.6) with ESMTP id 2924393 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:51:41 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 08:51:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Grace Morris To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <42527E92.7080503@thibault.org> Message-Id: <6B797BB6-A5D1-11D9-89AB-000393DA0BCC@providenceday.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are, indeed, a large number of French texts describing this type of garment.....discussed at length on the 12thcentury list... Jessamyn On Tuesday, April 5, 2005, at 08:03 AM, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > >> Something that I did find quite helpful (and everyone seems to >> ignore) were metalwork objects where one could clearly see the >> artistic stylized folds. > > There seems to be a dearth of "let's search text sources for > descriptions" too. Probably because it's difficult, but it might shed > some light on the question. Possibly there are professional costume > historians doing that. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > Binary-numbered clock & Geek Mandalas! > http://www.cafeshops.com/virtueventures > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 09:30:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35DUbR6002900 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:30:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35DTbLV025153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35DTXvO028858; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:29:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35DTUCZ028816 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:29:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m180.in-tch.com [216.166.191.180]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j35DPSo11425 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <425293FF.2070803@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:34:55 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] was: No taste in corsets or fashions Who is Ms D.D.? References: <20050404071926.63748.qmail@web41809.mail.yahoo.com> <42520419.4030201@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <42520419.4030201@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The double-D client referred to in an earlier post.... --sue Wicked Frau wrote: > Who is Ms D.D.? > > Melody Watts wrote: > >> ( She has this incredible ability to smoosh her waist >> into this circulation cutting off curcumference,which >> frankly looks probably worse then Ms.DD because she >> has really high hips , she ends up looking like >> a"spade" symbol turned upside down) >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 09:31:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35DVugR002913 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:31:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35DUvLV025297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:30:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35DUv0v030070; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:30:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35DUsPX030036 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:30:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m180.in-tch.com [216.166.191.180]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j35DQro11754 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:26:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42529455.1050601@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:36:21 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: References: <200504041801.j34I0Jm3047238@net.indra.com> <200504042321.24203.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200504042321.24203.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I didn't get one, but then again, I just ordered this weekend. Delivery expected within two weeks.... --sue Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Monday 04 April 2005 2:45 pm, fastusminimus wrote: > >>At 12:01 PM -0600 4/4/05, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >> >>>Well Drat! Just got word from Barnes & Noble that this title would not >>>be available on the published date, something about 'delayed at the >>>publisher', and they would email be again if it was going to be over 30 >>>days. Anyone else received this notice? > > > Yes, I did, too. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 09:53:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35Dr5ng003163 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:53:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35DpiLV027310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:51:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35DpWYG045437; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:51:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from panther.mail.utk.edu (panther.mail.utk.edu [160.36.178.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35DpSTX045367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:51:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@utk.edu) Received: from webmail.utk.edu (camel.usg.utk.edu [160.36.178.34]) by panther.mail.utk.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j35DoTHU030966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:50:29 -0400 X-WebMail-UserID: sfarmer Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:51:27 -0400 From: Susan Farmer To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002252 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns Message-ID: <427EFC8F@webmail.utk.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Infinite Mobile Delivery (Hydra) SMTP v3.62.01 X-Spam-Status: Message recipients not local. X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.45 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > This one almost looks like a separate corsage over a > > finely pleated gown -- at > > least to my eyes. > > The problem with the "corsage" theory is that I > suspect it came from people doing exactly what we're > doing--looking at statuary and making guesses about > what we're seeing. Which is fine--but I've never > found evidence of a separate, corset-like garment from > any period preceeding the bliaut or immediately after > the bliaut--and 12th century tailors, being generally > conservative, would not have (in my opinion) learned a > new technique and simply discarded it after a few > years. Nor is there any description of a corset-like > garment in contemporary literature--while we *do* have > descriptions of side laced garments. So for me, it's > pretty clear that the bliaut was probably side-laced. > How it was actually cut, and how much from the > statuary is artistic license, and how much the fabrics > affected things remain for me the fascinating > mysteries. I know that Goddard discusses "corsage;" but at the moment, I don't remember if it's in terms of a separate garment or not. Devil's Advocate mode ... I'm sure that most of the "separate garment" idea came from the early illuminations/tapestries with the wrapped mantle like this. where it is very obviously wrapping of some sort around the torso. but then there are images like these ... (and you've probably seen then all before, but ...) and last but not least ..... I have no clue what I'm seeing (but, please don't try and tell me that the fact that the pleats are still so nice and regular at the bottom of the decorative band on a statue means that they had to be pleated onto the bodice .....) I'm only just now learning to "read" early art. Jerusha (who always welcomes more pairs of eyes ....) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Botany Department, University of Tennessee http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 10:18:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35EIr3C003344 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:18:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35EGdLV029360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 08:16:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35EGToI065278; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 08:16:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35EGQnm065230 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 08:16:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DIoqv-0005y4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:16:25 -0700 Message-ID: <42529DC3.8000901@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:16:35 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] was: No taste in corsets or fashions Who is Ms D.D.? References: <20050404071926.63748.qmail@web41809.mail.yahoo.com> <42520419.4030201@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <42520419.4030201@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, I think it should be me! DOI DOI ??? (Slap on forhead with heel of hand!) :) Thanks! Wicked Frau wrote: > Who is Ms D.D.? > > Melody Watts wrote: > >> ( She has this incredible ability to smoosh her waist >> into this circulation cutting off curcumference,which >> frankly looks probably worse then Ms.DD because she >> has really high hips , she ends up looking like >> a"spade" symbol turned upside down) >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 11:43:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35FhsK7003824 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:43:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35Fg0LV008611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35Ffx2P042251; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:41:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35FftBF042176 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:41:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j35Ffoci005181 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050405104929.01984e90@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:41:48 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <427EFC8F@webmail.utk.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Corsettum, was Bliauts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jerusha brings up an interesting point. Remember the discussions in "Dress in the Age of the Black Prince". All those lovely references to "corsette" "corselette" and "corsettum" in the inventories of both the french and english kings. AND those references are early in the roles, before the entries that involve buttons and more fitted garments. So -old idea recycled here- perhaps those garments are a body related piece, coming from the Latin, for body. So perhaps that is a distant remnant of a different clothing item that we see here in a stylized form. Bridgette >Devil's Advocate mode ... > >I'm sure that most of the "separate garment" idea came from the early >illuminations/tapestries with the wrapped mantle like this. > >pg> > >where it is very obviously wrapping of some sort around the torso. >but then there are images like these ... (and you've probably seen >then all before, but ...) > >etail.jpg> > > > >and last but not least ..... > >g> > > > >I have no clue what I'm seeing (but, please don't try and tell me that >the fact that the pleats are still so nice and regular at the bottom >of the decorative band on a statue means that they had to be pleated onto >the bodice .....) I'm only just now learning to "read" early art. > >Jerusha (who always welcomes more pairs of eyes ....) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 11:43:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35FhseK003825 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:43:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35FelLV008392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:40:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35FeZ81040782; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:40:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35FeW1L040733 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:40:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.51] (p35.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.51]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j35Fbl021002 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:37:48 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <4430f5b723bfa8d79e12903c5a3e6a49@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:48:25 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Japanese kimonos X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have another question for any kimono experts out there (I really love this list--you guys are fabulous!). I'm in the process of altering some authentic Japanese kimonos for use in a play I'm costuming. They are old garments but I'm wondering how old they are, since they are hand-sewn. Does that mean they are so old they were made before sewing machines? I cant imagine that they would be in such good condition if they were. Are kimonos still being hand sewn or would they have been during the 20th century in spite of the presence of sewing machines? They are made out of silk and it looks like the thread is silk too. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 11:58:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35FwG9s003912 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:58:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35FtxLV009999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:55:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35Fto90055381; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:55:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m-smtp-2.cdc.gov (smtpgw.cdc.gov [198.246.97.19]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35Ftk4v055201 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:55:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from NBD2@CDC.GOV) Received: from mcdc-us-ims.cdc.gov ([158.111.6.56]) by m-smtp-2.cdc.gov with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id 2LDGRNBB; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:04:21 -0400 Received: from m-ncid-1.NCID.CDC.GOV ([158.111.223.50]) by mcdc-us-ims.cdc.gov with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:50:07 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:50:07 -0400 Message-ID: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059456A5@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: re: bleaching ecrus lace Thread-Index: AcU59yP/3i14wvPZSbScDwEeA7wBpg== From: "Ferguson, Natalie" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2005 15:50:07.0990 (UTC) FILETIME=[245FF160:01C539F7] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: bleaching ecrus lace X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1692376123==" Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1692376123== content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 T29wcywgbXkgcmVwbHkgZGlkbid0IGdvIHRocm91Z2guIFRoYW5rcywgU29uamEsIGZvciB0aGUg c3VnZ2VzdGlvbiB0byB0ZXN0IGJsZWFjaGluZyB0aGUgbGFjZS4gV2lsbCB0cnkgaXQgb3V0Li4u c2hhbid0IGZlYXIgd2FzdGFnZSA6fQ0KIA0KVGhhbmtzIGFnYWluLA0KIA0KTmF0YWxpZSBpbiBL WQ0K --===============1692376123== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --===============1692376123==-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 12:05:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35G5ZdK003976 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:05:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35G4MLV011117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:04:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35G4JBl063609; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:04:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35G4GjE063487 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:04:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r5.33.) id 6.fa.1078be38 (4560) for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:04:10 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:04:10 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Japanese kimonos To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm no expert on Kimonos or anything but my Mother had some suits made in Hong Cong [I know....not Japan] in the 1960s and they are entirely hand sewn. On films I've done that took place in the 1950s we uses men's suits and all sorts of ladies fine things all entirely hand sewn. My point is that hands sewn garments, especially if traditional [like a Kimono or even a kilt] or "top drawer", are very available into the 20th century.... and I'm sure even now. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 12:06:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35G6AdD003984 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:06:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35G5ALV011234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:05:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35G59Qg064401; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:05:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35G55fT064350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:05:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0158.floodcity.net ([198.93.211.158]:4931 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1DIqY5-0002mf-MZ for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:05:06 -0400 Message-ID: <4252B72F.4060202@floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:05:03 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: References: <200504041801.j34I0Jm3047238@net.indra.com> <200504042321.24203.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200504042321.24203.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO which title? Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >On Monday 04 April 2005 2:45 pm, fastusminimus wrote: > > >>At 12:01 PM -0600 4/4/05, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >> >> >>>Well Drat! Just got word from Barnes & Noble that this title would not >>>be available on the published date, something about 'delayed at the >>>publisher', and they would email be again if it was going to be over 30 >>>days. Anyone else received this notice? >>> >>> > >Yes, I did, too. > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 12:20:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35GKnM3004079 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:20:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35GJWLV012789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:19:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35GJRiG078137; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:19:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35GJKX5077914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:19:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0158.floodcity.net ([198.93.211.158]:4942 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1DIqlm-0002HQ-Ov for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:19:15 -0400 Message-ID: <4252BA81.10805@floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:19:13 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Threee copies of every message References: <1DIgko-04LTvc0@fwd30.sul.t-online.de> In-Reply-To: <1DIgko-04LTvc0@fwd30.sul.t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO dgandh wrote: >Maybe I have something set wrong but I am getting 3 copies of every messages >from this list. which is playing havoc with my in box. > > > >Am I doing something wrong? > > > >Greg > More than likely it is a computer somewhere between you and the source of our list, hiccuping. we all get it sometimes, and no it isn't the list... this time, nor is it likely to be your settings, especially if you didn't get them yesterday. Ahhh the joys of technology. count your blessings, it could be ten copies, which I did one time have for a week from one list. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 14:36:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35IaFjM004948 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:36:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35IYkLV000481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:34:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35IYNn1006735; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:34:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35IXjDZ006247 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:34:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DIsrs-000Da3-80 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 18:33:40 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 19:32:14 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns References: <20050404230617.1719.qmail@web51304.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050404230617.1719.qmail@web51304.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ann Catelli wrote > > >A linen tunic of mine, with slightly too-long sleeves, >tends towards the horizontal cell wrinkling at the >wrists (parallel to the wrist hem, that is) from my >movements while wearing it. Certainly not proof, but >suggestive. > Many 12th century illustrations show horizontal wrinkling at the wrists of a tight sleeve (usually an underdress but sometimes you can only see one layer). I've seen suggestions that they were cut extra long to exaggerate the effect. It's certainly very characteristic. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 15:27:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35JRZYs005364 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:27:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35JQSLV006639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:26:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35JP9A5051397; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:25:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35JP0qQ051296 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:25:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CFC6392D6 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:25:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p011.socket.net [64.85.214.13]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 060AED4CD for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:24:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bliauts Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:25:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <6B797BB6-A5D1-11D9-89AB-000393DA0BCC@providenceday.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't been following this thread real closely so my apologies for duplication. My first SCA garb was a bliaut, laced up the sides. I made a second bliaut with to long of a waist and not quite wide enough. When I pulled the lacing tight it made horizontal gatherings across the body below the bust. Is there a possibility that there was more then one way of making a bliaut? Could it have been regional? Like Paris made it one way and Brussels made it another? De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 17:08:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35L8aWU006043 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:08:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35L70LV019695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35L660R049707; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:06:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35L61Sj049602 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:06:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LMRO2REDN4IXT0F9@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:05:58 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LMRO2RUKD4IWOO8R@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:05:59 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:06:32 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4252FDD8.6070301@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO otsisto wrote: >I haven't been following this thread real closely so my apologies for >duplication. > >My first SCA garb was a bliaut, laced up the sides. I made a second bliaut >with to long of a waist and not quite wide enough. >When I pulled the lacing tight it made horizontal gatherings across the body >below the bust. > > Actually, I suspect that is the _right_ way of achieing the wrinkles. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 17:08:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35L8axS006044 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:08:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35L7KLV019762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:07:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35L7Ejd050622; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:07:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35L6m6L050247 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:07:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LMRO3RBOF4IXT0F9@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:06:46 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LMRO3RUT88IWMU4R@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:06:47 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:07:20 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4252FE08.2020102@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO otsisto wrote: >Is there a possibility that there was more then one way of making a bliaut? >Could it have been regional? Like Paris made it one way and Brussels made it >another? > > Regional variations, yes. Completely different construction methods, probably not. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 17:55:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35Lt6b7006259 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:55:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35LrdLV026435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:53:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35LrRGv096607; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:53:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02-smtplb.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.109.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35LrOka096535 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:53:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marthakelly@nyc.rr.com) Received: from Martha (cpe-24-90-86-191.nyc.res.rr.com [24.90.86.191]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j35LrLIe027746 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:53:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:53:25 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <200504041801.j34I0Jm3047238@net.indra.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Martha McCain Patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm hoping that the next Simplicity Catalog(after "Early Summer" which has just come out)will feature some 18th century patterns by Martha McCain. There were no new costumes in the Early Summer issue which gives me some hope? Of does someone on the list know something I don't? Thanks! Cindy Abel Cindy, I can answer that. I was supposed to have 18th century patterns ready this spring. In fact, I've already spent a year in the libraries, looked at originals, made 18th century muslins, etc. BUT I got waylaid last March by Carolann Schmitt's wonderful lecture on sleeves at the Ladies and Gentlemen of the Civil War Conference. I was inspired to do some basic mid-nineteenth-century bodices with tricky sleeve options. And that's what's coming out soon. There are three packages and I believe they'll appear one at a time. Now I'm working full time on 18th century. No more distractions. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 17:57:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35LvH5U006280 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:57:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35LtfLV026857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:55:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35LtfDe099002; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:55:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav10.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35LtbA4098858 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:55:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:55:32 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by BAY106-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 21:55:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4430f5b723bfa8d79e12903c5a3e6a49@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Japanese kimonos Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:55:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2005 21:55:32.0195 (UTC) FILETIME=[30382330:01C53A2A] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > some authentic Japanese kimonos for use in a play I'm costuming. They are > old garments but I'm wondering how old they are, since they are hand-sewn. Traditionnally, kimonos are hand-sewn and taken apart to be washed, at least according to "Make your own japanese clothes" (1988). They're often formal garments that seldom get washed, once a year or so. They would be hand-sewn, even in the 20th century, until fairly recently, when ready-made kimonos became more popular. Actually, it'll be faster if I just quote the book > Sewing traditional clothing-kimono, in particular- is an exacting art in > Japan. Collars, sleeves, and hems must drape just so; the stitching must > be easily removable for washing the garment piece by piece; the entire > garment, in fact, must be sewn by hand to achieve the ideal results. These > results include proper fit and protection of the fabric (hand stitching > will rip before the fabric does when a seam undergoes stress). > Accordingly, you will not find racks of readymade quality kimono in > department stores. Rather, department stores, as well as neighborhood > gofukuya, or tailor shops, sell bolts of narrow fabric and sew each kimono > by hand to order. Times do change, however. Recently, readymade > one-size-fits-all kimono of lined polyester have made their debut, while > inexpensive cotton summer kimono (yukata) have been mass-produced for some > time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 18:15:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j35MFPfc006386 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:15:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j35MDlLV029227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 16:13:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35MBqN0014836; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 16:11:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.183]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35MBj8M014735 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 16:11:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DIwGv-0004Qu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 15:11:45 -0700 Message-ID: <42530D2B.7050409@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 15:11:55 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Best Bra again? OT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi guys, I remember having a discussion once about what you guys thought was the best bra. I am looking for both a sport bra and a regular one. Have any of you tried this Enell brand sport bra? http://www.enell.com/quotes.html# _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 20:06:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3606XAh007096 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 20:06:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3604ELV010809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:04:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3603vDD016694; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:03:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.37.219]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3603sjn016566 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:03:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Message-ID: <20050406000348.91145.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.224.231.236] by web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 20:03:48 EDT Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 20:03:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Carroll-Clark Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- --- Adele de Maisieres wrote: > otsisto wrote: > > >Is there a possibility that there was more then one > way of making a bliaut? > >Could it have been regional? Like Paris made it one > way and Brussels made it > >another? > > > > > > Regional variations, yes. Completely different > construction methods, > probably not. I agree. Given that all the clothing from the periods that bracket the bliaut period use generally straight/triangular cut fitting (with the odd little tweak, like those Viking-age tunics with the slightly curved sleeve head, etc.) it's not likely you would see radical differences. It's one of the reasons why I don't tend to go for the waist seam theories. However, weirdnesses like the Viborg shirt mean that I probably can't completely discount it--but just opine I think it's less likely than other cuts. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 5 22:05:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3625uf6007611 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:05:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3623vLV020796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 20:03:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3623jdg007877; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 20:03:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51309.mail.yahoo.com (web51309.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.175]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3623gq8007764 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 20:03:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 60764 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Apr 2005 02:03:37 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=VZVDfRBKQ+FcSGpRLf78kBkpDNUETQR3qiR2SFajm7A9Tk4s3oGIDvJ2dEnGE3xDcalqqdzj5JB7OMpqEtUaDUq6anFAyfjahjkJYMDEko+d2E8pYU/CC92RzsUOXEQ7hO15LHM8XneR233ue1Coi/fA76WB96syGq558u+6pGM= ; Message-ID: <20050406020337.60761.qmail@web51309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.183.30.107] by web51309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 19:03:37 PDT Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 19:03:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Jean Waddie wrote: > Ann Catelli wrote > >A linen tunic of mine, with slightly too-long > sleeves, > >tends towards the horizontal cell wrinkling at the > >wrists (parallel to the wrist hem, that is) from my > >movements while wearing it. Certainly not proof, > but > >suggestive. > > > Many 12th century illustrations show horizontal > wrinkling at the wrists > of a tight sleeve (usually an underdress but > sometimes you can only see > one layer). I've seen suggestions that they were > cut extra long to > exaggerate the effect. It's certainly very > characteristic. > > Jean It's the cell-shape, rather like a distorted honeycomb, that I'm emphasizing here. Lends itself nicely to the stylization shown on several figures from Chartres. You are certainly correct that there are Lots of narrow sleeves wrinkled on purpose up the forearm in 12th century illuminations & other art forms. Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 00:04:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3644i0I008076 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 00:04:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36439LV001627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:03:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36431Ca097306; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:03:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3642uq4097170 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:02:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.8]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 23:01:39 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshal" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Threee copies of every message Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 23:02:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <1DIgko-04LTvc0@fwd30.sul.t-online.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcU5oZCvoOWedFipQJavv4Rdn6+CdAAu6TRw Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2005 04:01:39.0927 (UTC) FILETIME=[56020670:01C53A5D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got that too, but it turns out I had written one of the Outlook "sort message to.." rules three times. Had to go to the help section for instructions on how the change/edit rules already written. Might be worth checking out. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of dgandh Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 12:38 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Threee copies of every message Maybe I have something set wrong but I am getting 3 copies of every messages from this list. which is playing havoc with my in box. Am I doing something wrong? Greg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 00:56:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j364uj8P008265 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 00:56:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j364tMLV009885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:55:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j364tGXR037178; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:55:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com (mailout05.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j364tDdH037109 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:55:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dgandh@t-online.de) Received: from fwd19.aul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1DJ2ZK-00062x-01; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 06:55:10 +0200 Received: from gandolf (VgIkBcZ6re+kdaOnb1QAqhspEMxGWziqrS8Wd8SZPQmEBJN7CibPox@[217.230.143.75]) by fwd19.sul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1DJ2Z9-1Aibsu0; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 06:54:59 +0200 From: "dgandh" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Threee copies of every message Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 06:54:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcU5oZCvoOWedFipQJavv4Rdn6+CdAAu6TRwAAHf8HA= Message-ID: <1DJ2Z9-1Aibsu0@fwd19.sul.t-online.de> X-ID: VgIkBcZ6re+kdaOnb1QAqhspEMxGWziqrS8Wd8SZPQmEBJN7CibPox X-TOI-MSGID: 700921d7-557a-4967-b13e-0676a53a9226 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Besty! Thanks That was it.... exactly! Greg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Betsy Marshal Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:03 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: [h-cost] Threee copies of every message I got that too, but it turns out I had written one of the Outlook "sort message to.." rules three times. Had to go to the help section for instructions on how the change/edit rules already written. Might be worth checking out. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of dgandh Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 12:38 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Threee copies of every message Maybe I have something set wrong but I am getting 3 copies of every messages from this list. which is playing havoc with my in box. Am I doing something wrong? Greg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 06:52:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36AqmZO010419 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 06:52:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36ApZLV015925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 04:51:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36ApK3j077479; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 04:51:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32A3q5Q077781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 03:03:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 12338 invoked by uid 507); 2 Apr 2005 20:03:45 +1000 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 2 Apr 2005 20:03:45 +1000 Message-ID: <059501c5376b$4e61ae60$0302a8c0@mycomputer> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <200504011547.j31FlJhL062212@net.indra.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20050402024434.023304c0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotton Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 20:04:05 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-MC-Metrics: net.indra.com 1128; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've found that there is also cottoned finish in wools, which is often referred to as cotton in pre-cotton-gin periods. They seemed to be used for similar things, so I don't find that I can tell the difference with any clarity by descriptions from the period. I've recently replaced a lot of my 17th century bits and pieces I'd made from cotton lawn with handkerchief linen because of my inability to work out whether fine cotton's OK or not. I have, however got decent references to cotton thread and cotton waste for padding (fencing doublets and mattresses) from the MoL Textiles and Clothing Book. To me, it's one of the more interesting vaguarities of our historical studies. Any input would be appreciated. Glenda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotton >I don't know about blended fabrics for sure but I have definite references >to cotton fabric used in England during the 16th century. > > Cheers, > Danielle > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:06:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36B6Xbt010500 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:06:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36B5aLV018019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:05:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36B5WAp087468; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:05:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j32M75T6047287 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 15:07:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.160] (p00.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.160]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j32M4L032736 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 15:04:22 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <0320488d96769b960b1e035a44de2a31@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 15:14:51 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Medieval gowns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I finally have a couple questions I know you experts can help me with. I got a commission to make a medieval dress for an SCA woman, based on Butterick 3552-- http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi? search=3552&s.search.all.x=14&s.search.all.y=14&TI=10001&M=&pageSize=9. She says she has been told that the seams on sleeves from this era are supposed to be toward the back rather than under the arm. Is this correct? Also, I am wondering about the correctness of the over the bust princess seam on the pattern. I think I will have to leave it there, due to the nature of the fabric she has chosen, but it seems a bit modern to me for some reason. I'm going to lace up the back instead of using a zipper. Would grommets have been used yet or would they just be sewn eyelets (which I dont think I am going to do)? TIA, Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:08:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36B82vT010515 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:08:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36B6rLV018436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:06:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36B6q1N088607; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:06:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j335pDNJ036573 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:51:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.92] (p28.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.92]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j335mW016837 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:48:32 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <424F8116.7060304@paradise.net.nz> References: <2982a4646a56230eaffa0a1c6a23ce54@ntw.net> <424F8116.7060304@paradise.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:59:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Apr 2, 2005, at 10:37 PM, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > >> I got a commission to make a medieval dress for an SCA woman, based >> on Butterick 3552-- >> http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi? >> search=3552&s.search.all.x=14&s.search.all.y=14&TI=10001&M=&pageSize=9 >> . >>> >>> I'm going to lace up the back instead of using a zipper. Would >>> grommets have been used yet or would they just be sewn eyelets >>> (which I dont think I am going to do)? >>> > > And no, grommets wouldn't have been used. The little reading I've > done on this area suggests it should lace up under the arms rather > than the back. > > Would you use hand sewn eyelets or loops? Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:09:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36B9avg010525 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:09:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36B8dLV018841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:08:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36B8dqC089458; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:08:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41905.mail.yahoo.com (web41905.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j338eflR037284 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 01:40:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 40395 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Apr 2005 08:40:35 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=ep2mEmOGf8VDzjel4w4nbZ7D0p+V7Kvm5GldU1b3Mvmr3ySW0YQhyf291JjS1b4hEdpUQNsXY9/kW0FhEQ2Nlx151uQX5fIh5TGCP6LVA7R6lJ60Simm144JkXOuHEwxF923kNCexJoxfiUx83zy/0iVFYqZWEUsfCduTdfBBmw= ; Message-ID: <20050403084035.40393.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.93] by web41905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 00:40:35 PST Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 00:40:35 -0800 (PST) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmmm Princess seams are not period, Tehy are modern.... I have been scolded by many a Laurel about this...However I have been told by other Laurels as Long as its not an A& S project its fine....What does anyone else think????? Metal Grommets from todays standards are not period... to get arround this I have seen People sew arround the Grommet to hide the Shiny metal thing.... I would use Grommets and not Eyelets because eyelets pull out easier than Grommets.... I have Heard that Hook and Eyes are period... I am lookng into that..... Under arrm sleves v. towards the back....I would check it out further... I have a dozen reasons I do not like that pattern it looks costumey to me even with amazing fabric...and tallented seamstresses..... . but that is my humble opinion..... Satine Sylvia Rognstad wrote: I'm resending this message because it hasn't shown up yet, so if it appears twice, you'll know why. > > > I finally have a couple questions I know you experts can help me with. > I got a commission to make a medieval dress for an SCA woman, based > on Butterick 3552-- > > She says she has been told that the seams on sleeves from this era are > supposed to be toward the back rather than under the arm. Is this > correct? Also, I am wondering about the correctness of the over the > bust princess seam on the pattern. I think I will have to leave it > there, due to the nature of the fabric she has chosen, but it seems a > bit modern to me for some reason. > > I'm going to lace up the back instead of using a zipper. Would > grommets have been used yet or would they just be sewn eyelets (which > I dont think I am going to do)? > > TIA, > Sylrog > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:10:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BAKwQ010528 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:10:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36B9SLV019113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:09:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36B9R2T090194; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:09:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j33HemB7060826 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:40:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Apr 2005 17:40:42 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050403182936.014c4e48@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 18:40:42 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cotehardie sleeves In-Reply-To: <1061.24.4.69.40.1112545886.squirrel@www.inreach.com> References: <012601c53098$2e8b23c0$df159b04@HELENPINTO> <004401c53081$a22ab730$54a810ac@Kate> <012601c53098$2e8b23c0$df159b04@HELENPINTO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:31 03/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Hi folks! > >Maybe I missed any prior disussion, but I would REALLY like know where I >can find examples of cotehardie sleeves with a seam up the side of the >arm. I mean pictoral evidence. Or a statue or something. I have spent >many years doing costuming and everybody "says" that cotehardie seams are >down the side of the arm but I have never seen pictures that prove it! > >When I did my research a couple of years ago, I found two different >pictures of men (statues from 1340 & 1355) in my book "A Visual History of >Costume" that show the buttons on the sleeves. But after the buttons end, >there is no seam. For those of you who have the book, they are pages 49 & >52. There are several other examples of buttons going up to the elbow >and/or beyond but you only see the profile view so you can't tell if there >is a seam or not. > >So does anybody have a picture (or several preferrably) that shows the >seam up the side of the arm? There is a wrist fragment of a sleeve in "Textiles and Clothing" Medieval Finds from Excavations in London, (HMSO). (Elisabeth Crowfoot, Frances Pritchard, and Kay Staniland). It is dated from the 2nd quarter of the 14th century, and is pictured laid out flat, buttons one side, holes the other. It buttons up the side of the arm, in my opinion, and continues beyond the buttons, perhaps as far as the elbow, as a finished edge. However, it is impossible to tell what garment it came from, and how far the seam continued. It could have stopped at the elbow and a top part of the sleeve could have been attached at that point. The top is very odd, and while it might have the whisper of an armhole shaping it might just be the way it has disintegrated. Not helpful I'm afraid, but a real sleeve!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:11:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BB5UZ010532 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:11:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BA8LV019334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:10:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BA7t7090816; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:10:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j342pf4H009669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:51:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-191.sonic.net [209.148.113.191]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j342pebN027387 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 19:51:40 -0700 Message-ID: <4250ABBE.4000909@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 19:51:42 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? References: <4250A2B5.2070707@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4250A2B5.2070707@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO BTW, I should add that, if I recall, this took place in Gaul. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Lavolta Press wrote: > I remember this story from one of my history classes and just looked > it up again on the net. > > SULPITIUS SEVERUS ON THE LIFE OF ST. MARTIN > (SULPITIUS (or Sulpicius) SEVERUS was born in Aquitania about A.D. 363, > and died, as is generally supposed, in A.D. 420.) > > A Case of Diabolic Deception. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:17:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BH6jw010563 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:17:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BG4LV020509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BG1VO094743; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:16:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j347KBSY079778 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:20:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8810338C0C for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 02:20:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p180.socket.net [64.85.214.182]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3EA3FC46D for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 02:20:10 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 02:20:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Perhaps for lacing you could use grograin ribbon strips. Sewn on vertically on each side leaving openings for the lace to go though. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:18:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BIG95010574 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:18:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BHgLV020636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:17:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BHfE4095796; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:17:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34C4nBg036220 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 06:04:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id AD5814200B0; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 08:04:40 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.106 ([209.131.81.106] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 4 Apr 05 12:04:39 -0000 Message-ID: <003101c5390e$b3b16540$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4250A2B5.2070707@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:06:12 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could this be an early tale of the family of "the Emperor's New Clothes"? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 10:13 PM Subject: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? > I remember this story from one of my history classes and just looked it up again on the net. > > SULPITIUS SEVERUS ON THE LIFE OF ST. MARTIN > > (SULPITIUS (or Sulpicius) SEVERUS was born in Aquitania about A.D. 363, > and died, as is generally supposed, in A.D. 420.) > > A Case of Diabolic Deception. > > THERE was a certain man, Clarus by name, a most noble youth, who > afterwards became a presbyter, and who is now, through his happy departure > from this world, numbered among the saints. He, leaving all others, betook > himself to Martin, and in a short time became distinguished for the most > exalted faith, and for all sorts of excellence. Now, it came to pass that, > when he had erected an abode for himself not far from the monastery of the > bishop, and many brethren were staying with him, a certain youth, Anatolius by > name, having, under the profession of a monk, falsely assumed every appearance > of humility and innocence, came to him, and lived for some time on the common > store along with the rest. Then, as time went on, he began to affirm that > angels were in the habit of talking with him. As no one gave any credit to > his words, he urged a number of the brethren to believe by certain signs. At > length he went to such a length as to declare that angels passed between him > and God; and now he wished that he should be regarded as one of the prophets. > Clarus, however, could by no means be induced to believe. He then began to > threaten Clarus with the anger of God and present afflictions, because he did > not believe one of the saints. At the last, he is related to have burst forth > with the following declaration: "Behold, the Lord will this night give me a > white robe out of heaven, clothed in which, I will dwell in the midst of you; > and that will be to you a sign that I am the Power of God, inasmuch as I have > been presented with the garment of God." Then truly the expectation of all > was highly raised by this profession. Accordingly, about the middle of the > night, it was seen, by the noise of people moving eagerly about, that the > whole monastery in the place was excited. It might be seen, too, that the > cell in which the young man referred to lived was glittering with numerous > lights; and the whisperings of those moving about in it, as well as a kind of > murmur of many. voices, could be heard. Then, on silence being secured, the > youth coming forth calls one of the brethren, Sabatius by name, to himself, > and shows him the robe in which he had been clothed. He again, filled with > amazement, gathers the rest together, and Clarus himself also runs up; and a > light being obtained, they all carefully inspect the garment. Now, it was of > the utmost softness, of marvelous brightness, and of glittering purple, and > yet no one could discover what was its nature, or of what sort of fleece it > had been formed. However, when it was more minutely examined by the eyes or > fingers, it seemed nothing else than a garment. In the meantime, Clarus urges > upon the brethren to be earnest in prayer, that the Lord would show them more > clearly what it really was. Accordingly, the rest of the night was spent in > singing hymns and psalms. But when day broke, Clarus wished to take the young > man by the hand, and bring him to Martin, being well aware that he could not > be deceived by any arts of the devil. Then, indeed, the miserable man began > to resist and refuse, and affirmed that he had been forbidden to show himself > to Martin. And when they compelled him to go against his will, the garment > vanished from among the hands of those who were conducting him. Wherefore, > who can doubt that this, too, was an illustration of the power of Martin, so > that the devil could no longer dissemble or conceal his own deception, when it > was to be submitted to the eyes of Martin? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:19:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BJ8Yn010590 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:19:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BI7LV020693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:18:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BI7dC096078; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:18:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34DcSli099851 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:38:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.30] (p14.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.30]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j34DZj025422 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:35:45 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:46:18 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Apr 4, 2005, at 12:30 AM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Mon, 4 Apr 2005, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > >> It's definitely too fitted not to have a closure and since it is not >> historically accurate, what would you all suggest? Grommets? Fabric >> loops? Rings? I'm going to put the closure on the back, not at the >> sides. > Lacing rings appear by the 15th century at least, probably a little > earlier. I feel sure I've seen them in the 14th century in Italy. But > for your purposes, they would probably be harder than making your own > eyelets by hand. What are lacing rings? The metal rings that have been mentioned in previous posts? If so, I'm not sure what they are, where you get them and how they work? I'm not opposed to hand made eyelets. I've done them before. It's just that they take a great deal of time compared to other methods and I doubt the customer is going to want to pay that much. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:19:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BJPIh010610 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:19:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BIQLV020747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:18:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BIOkR096291; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:18:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40426.mail.yahoo.com (web40426.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.92.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j34Em1bk059029 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:48:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 73182 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2005 14:47:54 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=dQ8JkKSGySX67+Om/mgxlSvaV28VhzY2efZtzDXeiIqgcCo+GptEhr5aqwNP+k2U81nMK2BywZvup0Co1COO7XHqu2thqn8dn4ixB2PFyqj1rbkIDwACVTUsbgSByM1CV46CgPK9pQHCnLctUIR2gypqWOgnaHnwQZoH0mgE5ls= ; Message-ID: <20050404144754.73180.qmail@web40426.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.176.127] by web40426.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 07:47:53 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:47:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504031501.j33F0N48061075@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Medieval gowns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 01:03:20 -0800 (PST) > From: Lady Satine > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns > > I have a question for Adele about Bliaults.... Would you now of any > websites taht have information about them and possible > construction???? or good reference books I may be able to > find...... Thanks > > Here are some other websites about bliauts: HTH, ~mary "Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick & wicked." ~ Jane Austen "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:20:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BKKhR010616 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:20:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BJFLV020870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BJEI9096946; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:19:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34FC09T082493 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:12:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:11:52 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:11:44 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing and Textiles vol 1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well Drat! Just got word from Barnes & Noble that this title would not be available on the published date, something about 'delayed at the publisher', and they would email be again if it was going to be over 30 days. Anyone else received this notice? Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:21:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BL4XM010620 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:21:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BJqLV020945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:19:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BJpnr097375; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34GEP3S041921 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:14:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08031 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:14:23 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:14:22 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: When will more Martha McCain historical costumes by Simplicity come out Thread-Index: AcU3mrF7GkerA0/zSU6pJiWjnewkZQBljd0Q From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j34GEP3S041921 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] When will more Martha McCain historical costumes by Simplicity come out X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm hoping that the next Simplicity Catalog(after "Early Summer" which has just come out)will feature some 18th century patterns by Martha McCain. There were no new costumes in the Early Summer issue which gives me some hope? Of does someone on the list know something I don't? Thanks! Cindy Abel brujne@creighton.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:21:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BLks1010630 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:21:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BKNLV021003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:20:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BKMKN097773; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:20:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail6.mdx.safepages.com (mail6.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.49]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j34HGn7T005575 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:16:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail6.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id CDE23179F2D; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:16:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust74.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.74]) by mail6.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 84AE8179FB6 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:16:45 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <013301c5393a$3734f0f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <084901c538d3$c32ba700$0302a8c0@mycomputer> Subject: Re: [h-cost] perhaps to put a final note to an old debate (was cotton) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:17:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From my reading, I've gotten the impression that cotton's strength and durability was not trusted; it was more often used in weft, not warp, for example, and a weft is generally expected to have to withstand less stress. Possibly as a result, I keep seeing references to cotton weft, linen/wool warp fabrics being used in continental Europe for middle or lower class garments, rather than upper class garments as is generally assumed by reenactors. According to Mazzoui and others, cotton/cotton blends were generally used in outerwear garments by lower classes, but generally in accessories (headwear, handkerchiefs, gloves, ribbons, linings, undergarments, etc) by higher ranking individuals. And since we don't seem to be getting away from the discussion, I wanted to throw out a few of the references I've found to cotton or cotton blends being used as a part of a garment. I've also included a few references to the dyeing of cotton, which to me implies a somewhat wider range of uses for the finished material. (After all, who'd bother to dye batting black? And how many records do we have of bright red chemises?) -E House (who would never willingly use cotton for anything that had to drape!) [Same disclaimer as my notes--attribution info is included where I have it, but I don't always have it.] ------------ Cardon, Dominique. "Burial Clothing of One of the First Counts of Toulouse". Archaeological Textiles Newsletter 21 (Autumn, 1995), 7-11. (from the article:) "...Taking into account all their structural characteristics, the one hundred textile fragments found in the sarcophagus could eventually be classified into five different types of textiles: there are two different qualities of linen tabby, a 2/1 twill woollen cloth, a 3/1 twill-based broken lozenge in linen and cotton, and some silk braids [sic] in tubular tablet weaving... the conclusion that they [the garments] correspond to the rather close-fitting garments worn by an up to now mysterious Raimond, Count of Toulouse. "Under a short, long-armed beige or yellow tunic, made of a linen and cotton fabric with a lozenge pattern, and fastened by red silk braids [sic], he was wearing one -- or possibly two -- white linen shirt(s) and red hose made of woollen cloth and going up to the thigh. A combination of the information provided by the radio-carbon dating of one of his bones, and new historical research into genealogy of the first Counts of Toulouse has allowed a fairly precise dating for his death: either AD 961 or 978, according to which of several Raimonds he actually was." 1599 HAKLUYT Voy. II. I. 127 "Also we had three kintals of cotten wooll for a *carsie." *Carsie = kersey, a type of fabric used in garments Inventoy of John Port, 1524-25 Nichols' Manners and Expences of 15th, 16th and 17th Centuries. "a kertell of damask, the bodys of saten old, lined with yello cotton 10s" DIRMANDEI, TIRTEY, TIRENTAIL OED: [Fr.; 1247 in Godef. Compl. (also ? c 1400 tierteine, 1449 tirtaine (1718, Littré), 1487 tertaine; 1581 tritaine): cf. TARTAN.] A cloth woven of wool mixed with linen or cotton, 'worne ordinarily by the French peasants' (Cotgr.); linsey-woolsey. [Quote from Godefroy?] OED: Tartan [Of uncertain origin: in use early in 16th c. It has been conjectured to be a. F. tiretaine (1247 in Godef. Compl.) 'a kind of cloth, half wool, half linen or cotton', for which a variant tertaine is quoted by Godefroy of date 1487. [quote from a post, copied in case the University of Washington in question might possibly be my local Washington University:] "Abegg Foundation replied that they do not have any of these fabrics, but that I should write to Dr. Zander-Seidel. However, the lovely Tangwystl, working on making a very nice German ren, wrote to me and suggested I try the University of Washington, which has a nice textile collection. She was part of a tour of the collection and had kept notes on some period cotton velvet-like fabrics. More follow-up to do!" Katherine [possibly Katherine Barich?] [I've left out quite a bit of material on fustian & barchent, simply because there WAS so much. The two are similar fabrics, used among other things for clothing, and there seems to be specific proof that at least in some cases they contained actual cotton.] CDS, pg 106: "...The cotton used in their manufacture was of course imported, chiefly by the Turkey Company. A letter from this company to the Aleppo Factors, June 3, 1586, contains the earliest noted reference to cotton fustian manufacture in England: "For cotton yarne we would have you send us 60 baggs at the least, wearof some 20 or 30 may be of the bigest you can gett, and the other the fynest you can gett for the great serveth for candells, and the smaulest for fustians." [OK, not specifically garment related, but still nifty:] from http://costume.dm.net/dyes/segreti.htm "The Segreti per Colori, or "Secrets of Colors" was a mid-15th century manuscript in latinized Italian. It is a small volume in duodecimo, on cotton paper, and is preserved in the Library of the R. R. Canonici Regolari in the convent of S. Salvatore in bologna. It is numbered 165." "...369. To dye cotton or silk black. --Take 1 lb. of iron filings, 2 oz. of galls well pounded, 11/2 oz. of Roman vitriol, rinds of pomegranates, bark of the roots of walnut-trees, 2 oz. of verzino well ground, and strong vinegar; boil all together until reduced to one-fourth, and let the decoction cool, and put it in the sun for 3 or 4 days, stirring it 8 or 10 times every day. Then strain it, and when you wish to dye silk or cotton set the decoction to boil, and boil the silk or cloth in it for a quarter of an hour; then dry it in the shade, and the more you dip it, the finer and more beautiful it will be. "370. To dye cotton cloth. --Take 5 lbs. of galls well pounded, and put them into hot water with 10 lbs. of "pignolato,"(4) and then add 5 lbs. of Roman vitriol well pounded, and mix the whole well together, and let it stand a night, and it will be good. " [From the footnotes: "Guarnello is a kind of cloth made of cotton, but the term is also used to denote a woman's dress made of this material." This footnote may be from Mazzoui, p88:] note 41-- "Cecchetti, La vita dei Veneziani nel 1300, p. 7: "Unam pignolatam a femina ... unum fustaneum a femina" (designations for the cote). Sella, GLE, s.v. "fustaneus:" "de aliquo fustaneno a femina." Charles Du Fresne Du Cange, Glossarium Mediae et Infimae Latinitatis new ed.; 10 vols. (Paris, 1937-8), s.v. pignolatum." In central Italy, the term guarnello ( a plain cotton cloth) was sometimes used to denote the tunic. Sella, GLI, GLE, s. v. "guarnellus:" "guarnello ab homine...guarnello a muliere." Cf. Ciavarini, Statuti Anconitani, I, pp. 176-180-I:"guarnellos veteres [tunics]...guarnellos cordellatos [fabrics'." See also Levi Pisetzky, Storia del costume, I, p. 289; II, p. 99. The standard attire of knights in the thirteenth century included a tunic undergarment of cotton or other white cloth ("tunicam interiorem de panno albo vel pignolato"). Ludovico Vittorio Savioli, Annali Bolognesi (Bassano, 1784 -98), III, ;. 369. [I'll leave out the extensive references Mazzoui makes to Italian cotton garments, since I don't know enough about her research to trust that the following fabric terms used in contemporary documents really did mean cotton content, as she claims:] pignolato fustagno [=fustian, which piques my suspicious side] guarnello boccasino bombasina Mazzoui, Note 21: "A fifteenth-century Venetian manual on dyeing contains a recipe for dyeing cotton and linen cloth and yarn with madder." Rebora, Manuale, pp.68-9, c.xiii. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:25:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BPrnv010652 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:25:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BOuLV021469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:24:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BOrkE001149; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:24:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ultra7.eskimo.com (IDENT:root@ultra7.eskimo.com [204.122.16.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j351KmqE032162 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:20:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: from [4.249.153.141] (dialup-4.249.153.141.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net [4.249.153.141]) by ultra7.eskimo.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j351Bu0J020159 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:11:57 -0700 Message-ID: <4251DA48.5080600@oldwaylane.net> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 20:22:32 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Costume Con References: <20050404232029.88124.qmail@web42101.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050404232029.88124.qmail@web42101.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jodi Nelson wrote: > Thanks everyone for welcoming me. Kate mentioned Costume Con. What is it and where do I find out about it ? CostumeCon is an annual convention dedicated solely to costuming of all sorts. There are panels, workshops, costume exhibits, a social on Friday night, a SF/F competition on Saturday night, and a historic competition (both recreation and interpretation) on Sunday night. Many people wear costumes of some sort all the time - often changing two or three times a day. The only thing they haven't been terribly big on lately has been vendors. There are some, but not a lot. this year's CostumeCon is in Utah at the end of April while next year's will be in Iowa at the end of May. You can find out about past, present and future cons at - many past ones have pics of the the competitions online. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:26:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BQCZB010656 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:26:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BPLLV021501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BPLiu001522; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:25:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j351ujIg058936 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:56:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (ppp-69-109-111-178.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.109.111.178]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j351uE4M016954 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:56:40 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050404183950.0267a9e8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:55:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost]Costume Con In-Reply-To: <20050404232029.88124.qmail@web42101.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Costume Con. What is it A whole three-day weekend about costume making, costume wearing, and schmoozing with other costume makers. This includes historical costumers and re-enactors and docents, theatrical costumers, LARP players, Ren. Faire folks, fantasy and science fiction convention costumers, Halloween costumers, Furries, and even some doll makers and fiber artists. It also includes displays of costumes, workshops and panels about various aspects of costuming and costume parts, and three different costume contests. Oh, and did I say there's usually a dealers' room to die for? > and where do I find out about it ? Find out about any of them here: http://www.costume-con.org/ (I'm running the doll show/competition at CC26, in 2008 in the San Francisco Bay Area.) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:27:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BRPCk010664 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:27:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BQZLV021697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:26:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BQZjT002483; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:26:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j356ZtbV051582 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:35:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r5.33.) id 6.1a2.30e05b68 (4468) for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 02:35:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <1a2.30e05b68.2f838bc1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 02:35:45 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: perhaps to put a final note to an old debate (was cotton) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Am late to this as haven't had time to read lists much lately (apologies if repeat anything already covered - have probably missed loads). Not sure about household textiles - as not really my thing can't comment. However, I've been doing some research into padded armour recently, and cotton, either as padding (the raw fibre), or as the weft in fustian, was used quite widely. There are lots of mentions of cotton or fustian in accounts dealing with padding from all over Europe (Britain, France, Germany, Scandinavia, Poland, Italy, Spain) that I'm aware of. As well as these, many of the existing pieces of padding are padded with cotton - including the Black Prince's at Canterbury Cathedral (article by Arnold), the pourpoint of Charles de Blois (conservation report - padded with raw cotton and linen fabric), the Lubeck jacks (padded with cotton and lined with fustian), the 'coat armour' of Charles the Bold. There are mentions of bulk shipments of raw cotton being imported into England in the Portsmouth port records (offhand described as Turkish and Syrian, and in the 13th - 14th c's). Cotton was grown in southern Europe (e.g. Italy), although am not sure in what quantities, and there was a substantial fustian industry in southern Germany. It has also been suggested that the term aketon (and it's variations) come from a term for cotton (don't have notes to hand so not gonna give specifics). That said, northern archers marching into London in the c15th are described as wearing jacks stuffed with tow, and there are assorted sumptuary laws (in assorted countries) banning the use of anything but cotton or better (i.e. silk), as padding, (and as pointed out by Ribeiro and Embleton among others, why ban something that nobody's doing?) Personally am sceptical about use in general clothing pre c17th or 18th, (although am prejudiced cos I like linen), but as I said, my recent research is all into padding. Debs. PS Jacks in Lubeck and Stendal are believed to be soldiers jacks, indicating that cotton wasn't just used as padding for the wealthy. PPS If anybody's aware of any extant pieces of padding I'd be v. interested to hear of them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:27:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BRq5J010670 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:27:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BQvLV021741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BQviN002725; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:26:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41812.mail.yahoo.com (web41812.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.146]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3586i7r010740 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 02:07:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 47761 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Apr 2005 08:06:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Md78pBJ0RwLyouscZg0SwRc8TpzmSsiZpeZuFljJcwSeNRovnvS+r77gjb7ZejFVp8r1EGXnEoTMC71WUTRSMCvi+4Bpcc/v4PuI/qebgkXuY1M+nEuUjkTlwUyt8+uOSQD13/eGN6yMuS6SDmXMJR+03v9JcZRnXJbjjiVVLa0= ; Message-ID: <20050405080638.47759.qmail@web41812.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41812.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 01:06:38 PDT Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 01:06:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] was: No taste.... Who is Ms D.D.? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The original posters client (the gal who owns the DD chest and smooshes it with corsets in every period) --- Wicked Frau wrote: > Who is Ms D.D.? > > Melody Watts wrote: > > >( She has this incredible ability to smoosh her > waist > >into this circulation cutting off > curcumference,which > >frankly looks probably worse then Ms.DD because she > >has really high hips , she ends up looking like > >a"spade" symbol turned upside down) > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:31:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BVA0u010695 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:31:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BUCLV022100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:30:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BU9m7005247; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:30:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35Cj1Rv097215 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 06:45:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A8451FD00A4; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:44:53 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.104 ([209.131.81.104] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 5 Apr 05 12:44:51 -0000 Message-ID: <003a01c539dd$7d14d4c0$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007201c5395b$52488a20$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <007601c5395c$2fbe1cd0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Subject: Re: [h-cost] vestment question(s) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 08:46:27 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, I am so glad to have these references for vestments. When I was a beginning costumer about 35 years ago, I spent many fruitless hours trying to find sources for "Luther"," Man for All Seasons", "Henry the Fourth", "Enrico the Fourth" any other period piece that featured men (and women) of the cloth. The EB11 was my best bet, but it was hard to get the right visuals. So where was the Internet Then?!! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] vestment question(s) > Gail, > > I forgot to mention, that the Catholic Encyclopedia website is really busy > right now. You may need to wait a few seconds for the site to load. Also > another page of interest is the Liturgical Colours. The colors are very > important in the Catholic church and have a lot of symbolism behind them. > Here is a webpage about them: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04134a.htm . > > Penny Ladnier, owner > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:32:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BWgeV010722 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:32:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BVtLV022188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:31:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BVspI006453; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:31:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cheetah.mail.utk.edu (cheetah.mail.utk.edu [160.36.178.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35E8BVH058346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 08:08:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@utk.edu) Received: from webmail.utk.edu (camel.usg.utk.edu [160.36.178.34]) by cheetah.mail.utk.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j35E76GT023494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:07:06 -0400 X-WebMail-UserID: sfarmer Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:08:10 -0400 From: Susan Farmer To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002252 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns Message-ID: <427F46FF@webmail.utk.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Infinite Mobile Delivery (Hydra) SMTP v3.62.01 X-Spam-Status: Message recipients not local. X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.45 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > and then I found this one -- notice that the pleats coming out from under > the ornamented band at the bottom of the bodice ..... > > 2l.jpg> > > This one almost looks like a separate corsage over a finely pleated gown -- at > least to my eyes. > > Susan/ Jerusha > > Could you please re-post this link or give me another way to get there? I wou ld really like to see this and I keep getting error messages. > Sorry, it's the whole "line-wrap" thing. Sometimes the angle brackets help, and sometimes they don't. Try this ..... http://tinyurl.com/6qse5 Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Botany Department, University of Tennessee http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:33:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BX3mG010729 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:33:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BWCLV022248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:32:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BWBXW006673; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:32:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35FCKVn013277 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:12:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.98] (pm7-098.eos.net [205.133.149.98]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j35FC91G004123 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:12:10 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:05:39 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200504050321.j353LoxW023022@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: vestments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny: Thanks for that link. I used to consult a different site for vestment names, but it's apparently not working or has been taken down. Generally, I don't use the online Catholic Encyclopedia, because it is a very old edition (1908 or 1914, I believe) and was partly put online for philosophical reasons, by a group of people who don't like any Vatican II reforms. So I don't trust it as a reliable source for anything after, say, 1900. But in this case the information seems to be pretty much on-target. From the sound of things (I couldn't find pictures) this is a dalmatic, which is usually a deacon's garment but which is worn by bishops under their chasubles for pontifical masses. And that's exactly what I remember seeing -- a garment that was open up the sides but that had sleeves, and yet seemed to be worn underneath something else made of matching fabric and was definitely NOT worn by a deacon. And it was a Roman rite garment, not an Eastern rite garment. Whatever it was called, it looked gorgeous! Please let me know if you agree after you get a chance to watch your tape. I have to agree with G.K. Chesteron when it comes to vestments. I understand some people's beliefs that religious leaders (and churches, for that matter) ought to look plain. But I personally have to go along with the rest of mankind. When people are dressed up for important things, they ought to look gorgeous! If it's true of a mummer's parade or a starlet on Oscar night, then why not a bishops? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:33:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BX8Ab010733 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:33:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BWHLV022260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:32:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BWHXB006749; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:32:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35FIoAg019693 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:18:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.111] (p47.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.111]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j35FG3019309 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:16:03 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:26:40 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] medieval dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I passed on the conclusion I came to with all your help in regard to the Butterick pattern and its lack of historical accuracy to my customer, thinking she would want to go ahead anyhow, but it appears she may want to try something else that is more period accurate. Unfortunately, the fabric she has already purchased is not anything found in the Middle Ages. She's already bought a lot of it and it is lovely fabric. Do I tell her or just ignore that and proceed with whatever we both decide to make? She is thinking now of using McCalls 2806, which can be found here: http://www.reddawn.net/costume/mccalls.htm It is a discontinued Elizabethan pattern. I thought the SCA was supposed to be medieval. Isn't this too late for the SCA? Not to mention that the pattern in discontinued. Plus if I have to make a pattern the dress will end up costing her another $100 or so. I wish she could have consulted with me before ever starting this project but since she already has the fabric, I'm not sure what to advise her now. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:33:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BXimU010739 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:33:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BWoLV022303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:32:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BWopc007148; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:32:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j35G40LF063264 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:04:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-10929); Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:03:58 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:03:58 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050405085745.00d9f540@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:03:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Japanese kimonos In-Reply-To: <4430f5b723bfa8d79e12903c5a3e6a49@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimonos are still hand-sewn since they are taken apart for washing and then reassembled. I had a cotton kimono that my father brought back after he was stationed in Okinawa that was hand-sewn with long running stitches. Joan At 09:48 AM 4/5/2005 -0600, you wrote: >I have another question for any kimono experts out there (I really love >this list--you guys are fabulous!). I'm in the process of altering some >authentic Japanese kimonos for use in a play I'm costuming. They are old >garments but I'm wondering how old they are, since they are >hand-sewn. Does that mean they are so old they were made before sewing >machines? I cant imagine that they would be in such good condition if >they were. Are kimonos still being hand sewn or would they have been >during the 20th century in spite of the presence of sewing machines? >They are made out of silk and it looks like the thread is silk too. > >Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:34:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BYQa3010744 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:34:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BXNLV022398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:33:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BXMM6007570; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:33:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j35HidGE061041 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:44:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2005 17:44:34 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050405183843.014c5508@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 18:43:55 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Japanese kimonos In-Reply-To: <4430f5b723bfa8d79e12903c5a3e6a49@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:48 05/04/2005 -0600, you wrote: >I have another question for any kimono experts out there (I really love >this list--you guys are fabulous!). I'm in the process of altering some >authentic Japanese kimonos for use in a play I'm costuming. They are old >garments but I'm wondering how old they are, since they are >hand-sewn. Does that mean they are so old they were made before sewing >machines? I cant imagine that they would be in such good condition if >they were. Are kimonos still being hand sewn or would they have been >during the 20th century in spite of the presence of sewing machines? >They are made out of silk and it looks like the thread is silk too. I made a mantua and a Regency dress for a Japanese lady who flew in from Japan for a summer school here. She brought me 4 short modern kimonos - what we in the West call "happi coats" and they were all of silk, hand sewn, and made exactly as they have been made since the year dot. For patterns see "Cut My Cote" a Canadian publication by Dorothy Burnham(?) (Incidentally, what I had asked for was a piece of silk of any length - this was very rare and expensive, at least where she was looking. For her Regency dress she brought me a whole bolt of silk, which was 21" wide!!! Fascinating to work with, and just enough for the dress - it was a kimono length!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:35:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BZDv5010747 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:35:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BYILV022507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:34:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BYHOF008177; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:34:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j35JjeOj071182 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:45:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA77D40512 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 772207266; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:18:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] MC&T journal? was: untitled post X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.136] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCUuSaAAXtAwEAAAAB,25c8a25069b81ef0fb3573cba15df1ab Message-Id: <20050405191850.772207266@sitemail.everyone.net> X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So, Robin, when can we expect volume II? Some of those topics sound very interesting too. Academic journals are good. If some of the topics are not particularly interesting at the moment they may be later on. I never know where my costuming will lead me. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Robin Netherton wrote: From: Robin Netherton Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:33:59 -0500 (CDT) To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] MC&T journal? was: untitled post On Mon, 4 Apr 2005, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Monday 04 April 2005 2:45 pm, fastusminimus wrote: > > At 12:01 PM -0600 4/4/05, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > >Well Drat! Just got word from Barnes & Noble that this title would not > > >be available on the published date, something about 'delayed at the > > >publisher', and they would email be again if it was going to be over 30 > > >days. Anyone else received this notice? > > Yes, I did, too. I missed that first post, but I'm seeing answers to it now. Was this about the Medieval Clothing & Textiles journal? I know that Boydell (in England) claims to be shipping now, but I don't know how long it takes for books to reach secondary distributors outside of England. For those who haven't bought yet, today I received a batch of flyers that I may distribute to my colleagues -- and they include a discount code that brings the price down to $37.50. That's not as good as the Barnes & Noble price, last I looked. But if you want that discount, please e-mail me directly. I consider the members of this list my colleagues, and am happy to offer you the deal. However, please do *not* forward the above paragraph elsewhere, as I cannot claim that the members of several dozen costume lists are my colleagues ;-) Something else I should mention: I've tried to be very explicit in my postings on this list about the nature of MC&T -- it's an academic journal (in the form of an annual hardbound volume), and as such it contains a group of highly in-depth papers on a handful of disconnected topics. It should be very useful to people who are doing serious research in those particular topics, but I don't want anyone to think that this is a general reference volume for the average costumer. I truly expected most people to plan on borrowing copies through libraries, and I've been stunned and impressed by the number of people who are buying their own copies -- I hope on the basis of having read the volume contents (posted in my messages, and also at http://www.boydell.co.uk/43831236.HTM). However, based on some some messages that I've been getting lately, I'm worrying that the name of the journal is now being tossed around various lists as a "must-have new reference book" for re-enactors. Anyone buying on the basis of title alone, thinking that this is a general book about medieval clothing and textiles, will be very disappointed, and I really don't want that to happen! So, if any of you are on any such lists and hear any such talk, please set people straight: This is an academic journal, and a much-needed one, in an active research field that is producing much new work. But it is a collection of scholarly essays on disparate specialized topics, not a general reference. BTW, I am now in the throes of editing Vol. 2. The lineup so far includes papers on Renaissance "flea furs"; royal costume in Irish literature and archaeology of the Viking period; clothmaking as a literary device in French 12th-c. romance; cloth trade in Paris in the 13th and 14th centuries; attitudes about clothing in late medieval English literature and sumptuary law; 15th-century textile cleaning techniques; and the English Renaissance embroidered jacket. --Robin =============================================================== Robin Netherton // robin@nightowl.net Editor, Medieval Clothing & Textiles "No student knows his subject. The most he knows is where and how to find out the things he does not know." -- Woodrow Wilson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:40:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BeAlo010763 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:40:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BdCLV023105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:39:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36Bd9EQ011789; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:39:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay10-f55.bay10.hotmail.com [64.4.37.55]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j361AmFw067024 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 19:10:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:10:43 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 151.199.135.123 by by10fd.bay10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 01:10:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.135.123] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <019901c53940$e119c5e0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] historical movie costumes Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 21:10:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2005 01:10:43.0469 (UTC) FILETIME=[74AEBBD0:01C53A45] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There was an exhibition 12+ years ago at the LA County Museum of Art entitled Hollywood and History--perhaps there is still a catalogue floating around. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: "E House" >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: "Historical Costume" >Subject: [h-cost] historical movie costumes >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:05:16 -0500 > >Does anyone know of websites that might display historically themed movie >or theatre costumes from the past, ideally from the 1930s-1960s? I'm not >looking for _accurate_ costumes, just for nicely done examples of the >popular conceptions of medieval clothing--costumes from 'Robin Hood,' >'Camelot', 'A CT Yankee in King Arthur's Court,' that sort of thing. >Something along the lines of the link recently provided for theatrical >costumes from that Canadian museum (their name slips my mind, >unfortunately) would be perfect. > >-E House >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 07:41:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36BfZBS010774 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:41:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36BeALV023281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:40:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BeAto012792; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:40:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36BESmZ093598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:14:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 6512 invoked by uid 507); 6 Apr 2005 21:14:19 +1000 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 21:14:19 +1000 Message-ID: <026d01c53a99$c570abb0$0302a8c0@mycomputer> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <200504011547.j31FlJhL062212@net.indra.com><5.0.0.25.2.20050402024434.023304c0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <059501c5376b$4e61ae60$0302a8c0@mycomputer> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotton Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:14:14 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Boy, that one took a while to come in. I thought it had been lost. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotton > I've found that there is also cottoned finish in wools, which is often > referred to as cotton in pre-cotton-gin periods. They seemed to be used > for similar things, so I don't find that I can tell the difference with > any clarity by descriptions from the period. I've recently replaced a lot > of my 17th century bits and pieces I'd made from cotton lawn with > handkerchief linen because of my inability to work out whether fine > cotton's OK or not. I have, however got decent references to cotton thread > and cotton waste for padding (fencing doublets and mattresses) from the > MoL Textiles and Clothing Book. > > To me, it's one of the more interesting vaguarities of our historical > studies. Any input would be appreciated. > > Glenda > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 6:45 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotton > > >>I don't know about blended fabrics for sure but I have definite references >>to cotton fabric used in England during the 16th century. >> >> Cheers, >> Danielle >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 08:47:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36ClD2F011334 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:47:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36Ck9LV027647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 06:46:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36Ck2a5057569; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 06:46:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36CjxP5057524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 06:46:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j36CdjmT019368 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:39:45 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 08:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4253DA05.8010608@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 08:45:57 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval dress/McCall's 2806 References: <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > She is thinking now of using McCalls 2806, which can be found here: > http://www.reddawn.net/costume/mccalls.htm > > It is a discontinued Elizabethan pattern. I thought the SCA was > supposed to be medieval. Isn't this too late for the SCA? That's Italian Renaissance, which is within the SCA's time period, as the Italian Renaissance started earlier and then it spread northward like rising bread dough. The SCA goes until 1601 officially, with some sloppiness of the date due to many factors, which let's not get into here. (Side note: 26 missed messages from the past week just got dumped out by Indra again. Argh.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent Goddess Bless America bumperstickers -- not only monotheists love their country! http://www.cafeshops.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 09:17:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36DHQQ8011486 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:17:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36DGALV000119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DG49s080060; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:16:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DG2Yo079971 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:16:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from irmgart@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 58so234547wri for ; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 06:15:56 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Ty9GTZoRtecVdjjAUxM/qNLIy+yBaM59NoFI5OZKjrakRn+WwhJyjlNzIcUbe6l3NKGMijkH60YoKBA5G15S/57sqgp4Leml81vdRB0JHmh6TOmYy/QBQbr5IbqMg6jp3UO3wqucYAJhNJA2b69n+Lm0S4KP1zMSATtPtdAxSks= Received: by 10.54.48.8 with SMTP id v8mr631948wrv; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 06:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.45.65 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 06:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:15:54 -0400 From: Irmgart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval dress In-Reply-To: <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO keep an eye on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11801&item=8182862734&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW On Apr 5, 2005 11:26 AM, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > I passed on the conclusion I came to with all your help in regard to > the Butterick pattern and its lack of historical accuracy to my > customer, thinking she would want to go ahead anyhow, but it appears > she may want to try something else that is more period accurate. > Unfortunately, the fabric she has already purchased is not anything > found in the Middle Ages. She's already bought a lot of it and it is > lovely fabric. Do I tell her or just ignore that and proceed with > whatever we both decide to make? She is thinking now of using McCalls > 2806, which can be found here: > http://www.reddawn.net/costume/mccalls.htm > > It is a discontinued Elizabethan pattern. I thought the SCA was > supposed to be medieval. Isn't this too late for the SCA? Not to > mention that the pattern in discontinued. Plus if I have to make a > pattern the dress will end up costing her another $100 or so. I wish > she could have consulted with me before ever starting this project but > since she already has the fabric, I'm not sure what to advise her now. > > Sylrog > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 09:35:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36DZjf8011626 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:35:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36DYfLV001881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DYbDI094051; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:34:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DYaMu094033 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:34:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.161] (p01.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.161]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j36DVn012174 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:31:50 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <20050403084035.40393.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050403084035.40393.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <42be7d41f8a42f5a34583bf4cc524407@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:42:28 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Apr 3, 2005, at 1:40 AM, Lady Satine wrote: > Hmmmm Princess seams are not period, Tehy are modern.... I have > been scolded by many a Laurel about this...However I have been told by > other Laurels as Long as its not an A& S project its fine....What > does anyone else think????? What's A & S? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 09:40:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36DeCWA011646 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:40:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36DdILV002411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:39:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DdG7Z097569; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:39:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DdAis097475 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:39:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.161] (p01.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.161]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j36DaO012424 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:36:24 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <76e391d43bfca23eb53106aa0fda30ed@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical movie costumes Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:47:04 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have the catalog and I think a friend of mine has one she may want to sell if you wish to purchase a copy. Sylrog On Apr 5, 2005, at 7:10 PM, Nancy Kiel wrote: > There was an exhibition 12+ years ago at the LA County Museum of Art > entitled Hollywood and History--perhaps there is still a catalogue > floating around. > > > > Nancy Kiel > nancy_kiel@hotmail.com > Never tease a weasel! > This is very good advice. > For the weasel will not like it > And teasing isn't nice. > > > > >> From: "E House" >> Reply-To: Historical Costume >> To: "Historical Costume" >> Subject: [h-cost] historical movie costumes >> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:05:16 -0500 >> >> Does anyone know of websites that might display historically themed >> movie or theatre costumes from the past, ideally from the >> 1930s-1960s? I'm not looking for _accurate_ costumes, just for nicely >> done examples of the popular conceptions of medieval >> clothing--costumes from 'Robin Hood,' 'Camelot', 'A CT Yankee in King >> Arthur's Court,' that sort of thing. Something along the lines of the >> link recently provided for theatrical costumes from that Canadian >> museum (their name slips my mind, unfortunately) would be perfect. >> >> -E House >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 09:45:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36Dj3Pb011679 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:45:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36DfaLV002584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:41:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DfXCb099199; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:41:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DfR4F099066 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:41:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11150 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:56:04 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:56:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] MC&T journal? was: untitled post In-Reply-To: <20050405191850.772207266@sitemail.everyone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 5 Apr 2005, Lalah wrote: > So, Robin, when can we expect volume II? Some of those topics sound > very interesting too. Academic journals are good. If some of the > topics are not particularly interesting at the moment they may be > later on. I never know where my costuming will lead me. The journal is annual. We want to have it ready for the International Medieval Congress in early May of each year, so it looks like we're going to have an annual April release. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 09:45:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36DjOHr011685 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:45:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36DiBLV002729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:44:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DiBDU000814; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:44:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36Di9gP000778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:44:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j36DbAmT020162 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:37:10 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4253E77A.70407@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:43:22 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns References: <20050403084035.40393.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> <42be7d41f8a42f5a34583bf4cc524407@ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <42be7d41f8a42f5a34583bf4cc524407@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sylvia Rognstad wrote: >> Hmmmm Princess seams are not period, Tehy are modern. Search the archives for "princess seam" -- you'll find exhaustive information. Short version: there are different seam lines which could be called princess seams. Some of these are medieval. The main difference to be concerned about is less where the seam goes, than what the fabric is doing with regard to support of the bust. Supporting the bust without a bra = more medieval. Skimming over the bust with a bra underneath = modern. This message brought to you by the Robin Netherton Fan Club. >> been scolded by many a Laurel about this...However I have been told by >> other Laurels as Long as its not an A& S project its fine....What >> does anyone else think????? > What's A & S? Arts & Sciences contests in the SCA. cv -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent Goddess Bless America bumperstickers -- not only monotheists love their country! http://www.cafeshops.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 09:47:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36Dlw7t011694 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:47:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36DkpLV003085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:46:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DkjrM002922; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:46:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DkgId002872 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:46:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11245 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:01:22 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:01:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] historical movie costumes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 5 Apr 2005, Nancy Kiel wrote: > There was an exhibition 12+ years ago at the LA County Museum of Art > entitled Hollywood and History--perhaps there is still a catalogue > floating around. That may have been the source of the book of the same name, which I have around here somewhere ... Fun read. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 10:13:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36EDEY0011893 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:13:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36EC6LV005301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36EBwQd022806; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:11:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36EBtgl022749 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:11:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11544 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:26:37 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:26:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns In-Reply-To: <4253E77A.70407@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Search the archives for "princess seam" -- you'll find exhaustive > information. Short version: there are different seam lines which > could be called princess seams. Some of these are medieval. The main > difference to be concerned about is less where the seam goes, than > what the fabric is doing with regard to support of the bust. > Supporting the bust without a bra = more medieval. Skimming over the > bust with a bra underneath = modern. This message brought to you by > the Robin Netherton Fan Club. !!! And by "medieval," that doesn't mean "all of the SCA period." The earliest of those particular bust-supporting seams I've seen is about 1450 for Western Europe. There are some interesting curved seams on both backs and fronts of 15th and 16th c. garments in various place (particularly Italy) that some people would probably call princess seams because of placement but definitely don't work the same way as the modern. Ditto some of the shaped panel-piecing in c. 1400 Greenland -- some people will call those princess seams because they lie somewhere between center front and side seam, but they are by no means anything like a modern princess seam in shape, placement or function. Whenever anyone talks about whether something is "period" -- whether you're asking if it is, or someone is telling you it isn't, or anything in between -- the very next words should be something like "which period, and where?" Although many people use the phrase "SCA period" to mean "before 1600," saying something is "period" or "not period" is pretty much meaningless for costume unless you've established a particular subset of time and place. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 10:28:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36ESRZm012010 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:28:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36ERKLV006988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:27:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36ERF8Q035169; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:27:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.172]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j36ERDmV035083 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:27:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 96565 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Apr 2005 14:27:06 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=m+QcJMvtlGuuQGo11UCu/sLRQxfkTMBBpMV2F5B+A4Hn0Qw+yuKidsUwegfF2LslrsBwRXx2co5eWfe+mdJaJszytC2L3zIjQXS5uwjJlUYL/H0gRztzdbDqTa2kV9dnFr2mTpcYW6h7IpKRIOlkopSBYFYnmNSeX5wdTD31/oY= ; Message-ID: <20050406142705.96559.qmail@web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 07:27:05 PDT Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:27:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing and Textiles vol 1 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yep! NOT happy, but what can you do? (chew nails :) Chris G. Catherine Kinsey wrote: Well Drat! Just got word from Barnes & Noble that this title would not be available on the published date, something about 'delayed at the publisher', and they would email be again if it was going to be over 30 days. Anyone else received this notice? Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 10:31:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36EVv6H012035 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:31:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36EV0LV007349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36EUvCH038274; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:30:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36EUrYB038108 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:30:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:30:46 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:30:30 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] MC&T Journal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I truly expected most people to plan on borrowing copies through libraries, and I've been stunned and impressed by the number of people who are buying their own copies Robin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we want to help be sure there is a second volume :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 11:12:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36FCCGY012313 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:12:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36DmILV003222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:48:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DmIGf004017; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:48:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36DmFsH003941 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:48:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.8]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:47:01 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshal" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Threee copies of every message Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:48:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <1DJ2Z9-1Aibsu0@fwd19.sul.t-online.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcU5oZCvoOWedFipQJavv4Rdn6+CdAAu6TRwAAHf8HAAEqHMkA== Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2005 13:47:01.0319 (UTC) FILETIME=[1BFD2570:01C53AAF] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Happy to be of service! B. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of dgandh Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:55 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: [h-cost] Threee copies of every message Besty! Thanks That was it.... exactly! Greg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Betsy Marshal Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:03 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: [h-cost] Threee copies of every message I got that too, but it turns out I had written one of the Outlook "sort message to.." rules three times. Had to go to the help section for instructions on how the change/edit rules already written. Might be worth checking out. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of dgandh Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 12:38 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Threee copies of every message Maybe I have something set wrong but I am getting 3 copies of every messages from this list. which is playing havoc with my in box. Am I doing something wrong? Greg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 11:59:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36Fx3pr012597 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:59:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36Fw0LV017392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36FvsEc014671; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:57:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f14.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.24]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36FvmhI014469 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:57:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:57:42 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.201 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:57:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.201] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "C M" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 01:57:42 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2005 15:57:42.0543 (UTC) FILETIME=[5DB8F9F0:01C53AC1] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Early construction (was: Bliauts) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Since you mentioned the Viking Age armholes already..... I don't necessarily think that every piece of early clothing construction was based on triangles and rectangles. There might have been less "sophisticated" cuts, but seeing that Viking age clothing has a fair number of features previously not seen before 1300.... Curved armholes, inset sleeves with the medieval sleevetop cut, other tunics following the Viborg-cut, jackets whose cut still can't quite be determined, even instances of grand assiette armholes.... I guess later centuries with different artforms and more surviving remains have the advantage that one can see possible construction methods better. After all, images from around 1000 are not very clear on seamlines.... There are even bogfinds (Skjoldehamn) which have been dated to the 14th century "judging by the type of clothing" where C14 dating has revealed an actual date of 1000-1100..... I don't agree with the "horizontal seam" for the bliaut as well, but more from a fitting/appearance point of view, not from the assumption they wouldn't know how to do it. Heck, at least in Viking Age Denmark, they used all sorts of methods, and not necessarily fabric saving, rather "scrap-using" if anything (some clothes are made from several small pieces, with the grain going in all sorts of directions or whole clothes using fabric at an odd angle....) Cheers, Caithlinn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 12:23:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36GN9hU012726 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:23:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36GKrMR020191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:21:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36G6tbC022389; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:06:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pony.uvm.edu (pony.uvm.edu [132.198.101.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36G6Awi021913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:06:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [132.198.93.134] (ip093134.uvm.edu [132.198.93.134]) by pony.uvm.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j36G67ch000566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:06:07 -0400 Message-ID: <425408EE.6080600@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 12:06:06 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early construction (was: Bliauts) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO C M wrote: > > There are even bogfinds (Skjoldehamn) which have been dated to the > 14th century "judging by the type of clothing" where C14 dating has > revealed an actual date of 1000-1100..... > I've always wondered about those. Does anyone specify whether they think the clothing might be 14th century but the fabric from an earlier time period. I mean that the 14th cent. article might have been constructed/reconstructed from older fabric. Or is it just assumed that fabric age=construction age? - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 12:36:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36Ga91U012807 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:36:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36GZ5LV022149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:35:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36GYxV3047995; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:34:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36GYtbn047916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:34:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-136.sonic.net [209.148.114.136]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36GYrNx032588 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:34:54 -0700 Message-ID: <42540FB1.4050000@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:34:57 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? References: <4250A2B5.2070707@lavoltapress.com> <003101c5390e$b3b16540$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <003101c5390e$b3b16540$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO According to the story, a number of monks saw, handled, and closely examined the garment. My interpretation is that an ambitous monk had a carefully formed plan to elevate himself to prophethood. First he cultivated an image of "humility and innocence." Then he started to claim that he discoursed with angels. Nobody believed him, so he staged a miracle as proof. He secretly had, or had access to, a garment made of some beautiful fabric he knew would be unfamiliar to the other monks. Possibly the style was also unfamiliar. The monk claimed that God would, on a specific night, give him "a robe out of heaven." He then staged sound and light effects from inside his cell, which no one else viewed from within the cell. Possibly he did something as simple as light some candles, move them around, and mutter to himself. The other monks' expectations having been thoroughly aroused, the would-be prophet emerged from his cell with the promised garment, which the others "carefully inspected." "It was of the utmost softness, of marvelous brightness, and of glittering purple, and yet no one could discover what was its nature, or of what sort of fleece it had been formed. However, when it was minutely examined by the eyes or fingers, it seemed nothing else than a garment." However, the much-respected monk Clarus was skeptical, and wanted to take the would-be prophet to St. Martin (who I think was the abbot but I'd have to check) for further questioning. The monk refused. When he was compelled to go against his will, " the garment vanished from among the hands of those who were conducting him." Therfore the monks concluded that the garment was the work of the devil and that the spiritual power of St. Martin had made it disappear. Scoring, politically, a miracle for Martin instead of the monk. My interpretation is that one of the monks conducting the would-be prophet, or a bystander, filched the garment. Quite possibly to discredit the "prophet" by removing the evidence. Alternatively, possibly one of the monks knew what the garment fabric actually was, and also thought St. Martin might know; and was trying to protect the "prophet" by removing the evidence. Or yet again, one of the monks thought the garment might have intrinsic wordly value. By this time everybody was wrought up to perceive every occurrence as magical, and political feeling was generally against the monk. If his "miracle" had succeeded, his status would have been considerably raised; and by staging more miracles, he might have elevated himself to sainthood in time. But the question for costume historians is: What was the garment, as an earthly phenomenon? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >Could this be an early tale of the family of "the Emperor's New Clothes"? >Kathleen > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 13:16:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36HGCIu013048 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:16:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36HFALV026672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36HDtiV083421; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:14:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f9.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36HDNnb082931 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:13:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:13:17 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.6.189 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:13:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.189] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200504061637.j36GZEmT048270@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 12:13:17 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2005 17:13:17.0849 (UTC) FILETIME=[ECF9C090:01C53ACB] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Early construction (was: Bliauts) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: Hope Greenberg >>There are even bogfinds (Skjoldehamn) which have been dated to the 14th >>century "judging by the type of clothing" where C14 dating has revealed an >>actual date of 1000-1100..... >I've always wondered about those. Does anyone specify whether they think >the clothing might be 14th century but the fabric from an earlier time >period. I mean that the 14th cent. article might have been >constructed/reconstructed from older fabric. Or is it just assumed that >fabric age=construction age? This is occasionally suggested, yes. How many people are going to make daily wear clothes out of 3-400 year old wool? Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 13:27:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36HRJ5S013108 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:27:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36HQJLV028016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:26:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36HQBxo094608; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:26:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36HQ1m9094471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:26:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j36HJkmT021328 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:19:46 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42541BA7.8080702@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:25:59 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > This message brought to you by >>the Robin Netherton Fan Club. > > !!! Hope I didn't annoy you, but I wanted to attribute the ideas properly and with a little humor. > The earliest > of those particular bust-supporting seams I've seen is about 1450 for > Western Europe. Y'know, somehow I never really internalized this so efficiently. "No prince seams before 1450" is fairly easy to remember, though. Although of course that Museum of London book illustration of the cote with princess-like seaming is going to be in the brains of everyone for a long, long time; I think I remember your lecture addressed it as a poor drawing of reality? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent Goddess Bless America bumperstickers -- not only monotheists love their country! http://www.cafeshops.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 13:50:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36HoPc8013255 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:50:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36HnQLV000588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:49:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36HnObv016453; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:49:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36HnGoY016223 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:49:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r5.33.) id 6.157.4e1ff7f5 (16086) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mblk-r21 (mblk-r21.mblk.aol.com [152.163.179.11]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v104.18) with ESMTP id MAILINID103-3ed64254211424e; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:49:08 -0400 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:49:07 -0400 Message-Id: <8C708E810F4921A-460-678D@mblk-r21.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200504061637.j36GZEmT048270@net.indra.com> Received: from 216.23.116.42 by mblk-r21.sysops.aol.com (152.163.179.11) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:49:07 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200504061637.j36GZEmT048270@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.0.0.11984 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.179.11 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: A silk garment filched by a monk? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would have thought monks would be familiar with silk. What's the date and location of this story? And what would they have meant by "marvelous brightness?" They state the color in the next phrase, so brightness must mean something else. Did they mean it was shiny? not-a-historian Tea Rose >>>>The other monks' expectations having been thoroughly aroused, the would-be prophet emerged from his cell with the promised garment, which the others "carefully inspected." "It was of the utmost softness, of marvelous brightness, and of glittering purple, and yet no one could discover what was its nature, or of what sort of fleece it had been formed. However, when it was minutely examined by the eyes or fingers, it seemed nothing else than a garment." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 13:52:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36Hq9BU013280 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:52:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36HjuLV000105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36HjpGg013252; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:45:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav14.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.86]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36HjiKD013097 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:45:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:45:39 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:45:38 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <427F46FF@webmail.utk.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts, was Medieval gowns Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:45:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:45:37 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2005 17:45:39.0464 (UTC) FILETIME=[7244B080:01C53AD0] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j36Hq9BU013280 Status: RO Eventually I figured out what my problem was. When I was typing in the last few characters that ended up on the next line, I was typing 21.jpg but finally realized that it was 2"small L".jpg. The characters looked the same to me, but not to the computer. Thanks, Janet > 2l.jpg> > > This one almost looks like a separate corsage over a finely pleated gown -- at > least to my eyes. > > Susan/ Jerusha > > Could you please re-post this link or give me another way to get there? I wou ld really like to see this and I keep getting error messages. > Sorry, it's the whole "line-wrap" thing. Sometimes the angle brackets help, and sometimes they don't. Try this ..... http://tinyurl.com/6qse5 Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 14:00:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36I0Mq9013348 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:00:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36HxXLV001705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:59:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36HxTek025630; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:59:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36HxLGW025507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:59:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-136.sonic.net [209.148.114.136]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36HxJnr000431 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:59:20 -0700 Message-ID: <4254237B.2000603@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 10:59:23 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A silk garment filched by a monk? References: <200504061637.j36GZEmT048270@net.indra.com> <8C708E810F4921A-460-678D@mblk-r21.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C708E810F4921A-460-678D@mblk-r21.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As I said earlier, the account was written by: SULPITIUS SEVERUS ON THE LIFE OF ST. MARTIN (SULPITIUS (or Sulpicius) SEVERUS was born in Aquitania about A.D. 363, and died, as is generally supposed, in A.D. 420.) and as I said in my second message, this took place in Gaul. What do you think the garment was? Enough people examined it in enough detail that I doubt it was imaginary, though I also doubt it was miraculous. As for "brightness," the term could mean shininess, it could perhaps mean intensity/saturation of color, it could perhaps mean both. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.som tearoses@aol.com wrote: >I would have thought monks would be familiar with silk. What's the date and location of this story? > >And what would they have meant by "marvelous brightness?" They state the color in the next phrase, so brightness must mean something else. Did they mean it was shiny? > >not-a-historian Tea Rose > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 14:04:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36I43Ow013377 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:04:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36I2kLV002122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:02:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36I2gPE028766; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:02:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav12.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36I06TR026131 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:00:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:00:00 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV12.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:59:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval dress Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:59:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:59:56 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2005 18:00:00.0174 (UTC) FILETIME=[734A9CE0:01C53AD2] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j36I43Ow013377 Status: RO Do we have the right number (2806)? That dress is Italian Renaissance rather than Elizabethan and actually might be easier to make up than the earlier pattern, not to mention it is more athentic. Just try to keep her away fram the all too common practice of having a dress like the red one that splits down the front and wearing only a chemise under it. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 14:05:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36I5Poo013398 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:05:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36I2kLV002125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:02:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36I2gZf028770; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:02:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36I2dGt028638 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:02:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 1685C18001A2 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:02:56 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.33) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 6 Apr 2005 18:02:58 -0000 Received: by ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 81F10CA09C; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:03:00 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [149.169.241.121] by ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:03:00 -0500 From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:03:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns X-Originating-Ip: 149.169.241.121 X-Originating-Server: ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050406180300.81F10CA09C@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j36I2dGt028638 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Satine wrote > > Hmmmm Princess seams are not period, Tehy are modern.... I have > been scolded by many a Laurel about this...However I have been told > by other Laurels as Long as its not an A& S project its > fine....What does anyone else think????? I think it depends on what your goals are. If your goal is to have clothing that is constructed in a manner that was used in Europe prior to 1600, then princess seams are, to the best of my knowledge, right out. If your goal is to have clothing that looks like "an attempt at pre-17th century clothing" and is thus socially acceptable for use in the SCA then princess seams are not a problem. > > I would use Grommets and not Eyelets because > eyelets pull out easier than Grommets. Out of curiosity, has this been your experience, or is this something that you have heard? I have *never* seen or heard of a handsewn eyelet ripping out, while grommets seem to go all the time. As for covering a grommet with thread, that just seems like too much work to me :) >... I have Heard that Hook > and Eyes are period... I am lookng into that..... Janet Arnold has several examples in _Patterns of Fashion vol.I_, I don't remember when exactly hooks and eyes were introduced, but I think it was in the late 15th or 16th century. This is in no way directed at you, but pet peeve of mine is people claiming that "x is period" or "y is not period" without saying where and when. In my experience "X is period" is used to mean "X was invented in Albania in 1598" just as often as it is used to mean "X has been common as dirt for most of human history". Ditto for "y is not period". > > Under arrm sleves v. towards the back....I would check it out further... Again, sleeve placement depends a great deal on where/when. > > I have a dozen reasons I do not like that pattern it looks costumey > to me even with amazing fabric That may be because it *is* a costume, and intended to be such :) my two cents, Katie Buffy: And what are we if not women up to a challenge? Willow: Exactly! I mean, did we not put the 'grr' in girl? -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 14:31:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36IVCY3013611 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:31:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36ITrLV005015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36ITft3052044; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:29:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j36ITWqe051863 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:29:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 18:29:26 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050406192903.015e1840@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:29:32 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval dress/McCall's 2806 In-Reply-To: <4253DA05.8010608@thibault.org> References: <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:45 06/04/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > >>She is thinking now of using McCalls 2806, which can be found here: >>http://www.reddawn.net/costume/mccalls.htm >>It is a discontinued Elizabethan pattern. I thought the SCA was supposed >>to be medieval. Isn't this too late for the SCA? > >That's Italian Renaissance, which is within the SCA's time period, as the >Italian Renaissance started earlier and then it spread northward like >rising bread dough. The SCA goes until 1601 officially, with some >sloppiness of the date due to many factors, which let's not get into here. > >(Side note: 26 missed messages from the past week just got dumped out by >Indra again. Argh.) I got 47 all at once - argh too! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 15:05:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36J53Ru013837 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:05:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36J4ALV008807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36J45Yh082263; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:04:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36J40i8082154 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:04:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DJFoj-000KH7-8Z for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:03:57 +0000 Message-ID: <$GaZnzDDJDVCJwVn@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:02:27 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dylon dye stripper - effective! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Crumbs! I'm just using Dylon machine dye-stripper on a length of linen I dyed before but now want a different colour. You put the fabric in the machine, start the cycle, leave it 15 minutes and then mix up the dye stripper and pour it in the soap dispenser. By the time I had finished rinsing the noxious stuff out of the mixing jug, I glanced in the machine and the colour had gone completely! Now that's effective! Slightly stunned, Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 15:05:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36J5Cvk013843 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:05:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36J4ALV008808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:04:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36J48Mf082346; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:04:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36J45xA082269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:04:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-214.sonic.net [209.148.113.214]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36J44SL022935 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:04:04 -0700 Message-ID: <425432A8.3060201@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 12:04:08 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A silk garment filched by a monk? References: <200504061637.j36GZEmT048270@net.indra.com> <8C708E810F4921A-460-678D@mblk-r21.sysops.aol.com> <4254237B.2000603@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4254237B.2000603@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To clarify, this was St. Martin of Tours. He was born at Sabaria (today Steinamanger in German, or Szombathely in Hungarian), Pannonia (Hungary), about 316. Martin was enrolled in the Roman army and sent to Amiens in Gaul. Got baptised as a Christian, and later finished his military service. In 361 Martin enrolled himself among the disciples of St. Hilary in Poitiers. He obtained permission from Hilary to live a solitary life in a deserted region now known as Ligugé. A great number of other monks gathered around him, and eventually this became the Benedictine Abbey of Ligugé. Martin was there about ten years, but often left to preach/convert in the central and western parts of Gaul. Around 371 or 372, Martin was reluctantly persuaded to become the second bishop of Tours. However, he disliked living in the city and settled himself in a cell at a short distance from Tours, beyond the Loire. Other hermits joined him there, gradually forming a new monastery, which was named Marmoutier. Martin traveled a good deal on ecclesiastical business. He died at Candes, Touraine around 397 or 400. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lavolta Press wrote: _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 15:57:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36JvQLw014145 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:57:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36JtcLV015123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:55:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36JtOTD026739; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:55:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36JtIrp026650 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:55:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7F6F394E6 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:55:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p089.socket.net [64.85.214.91]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 50836C61A for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:55:16 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:55:16 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <42540FB1.4050000@lavoltapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This could also have been set up to improve St. Martin's status as I am sure he wasn't consider a saint at the time of the alleged incident. De -----Original Message----- My interpretation is that an ambitous monk had a carefully formed plan to elevate himself to prophethood. First he cultivated an image of "humility and innocence." Then he started to claim that he discoursed with angels. Nobody believed him, so he staged a miracle as proof. He secretly had, or had access to, a garment made of some beautiful fabric he knew would be unfamiliar to the other monks. ........snip...... But the question for costume historians is: What was the garment, as an earthly phenomenon? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >Could this be an early tale of the family of "the Emperor's New Clothes"? >Kathleen > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 16:15:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36KFIC4014226 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:15:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36KE7LV016973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:14:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36KE2eB043823; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:14:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36KDv9T043734 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:13:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAE7039313 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:13:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p089.socket.net [64.85.214.91]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A963AC609 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:13:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] medieval dress Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:13:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO M2806. Italian Ren, late 1400s style. This was an easily adaptable pattern. All you needed to do was make a camicia/chemise. Remove the darts on the blue part. Make the bodice about an 1" longer (optional). Make the decorative sleeve pieces separate from the chemise sleeve, lengthen them add loops & lacing. Option of moving the seam of the decorative sleeve to the backside of the arm. The red part of the sitting figure is actually a separate piece and is a failing attempt at a gionea(?) De PS. A&S = Arts and Science Original: Do we have the right number (2806)? That dress is Italian Renaissance rather than Elizabethan and actually might be easier to make up than the earlier pattern, not to mention it is more athentic. Just try to keep her away fram the all too common practice of having a dress like the red one that splits down the front and wearing only a chemise under it. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 16:35:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36KZcTD014319 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:35:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36KYDLV019338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:34:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36KY1Bk061178; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:34:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swiftsure.concentric.com (swiftsure.concentric.com [207.155.252.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36KXtkn061081 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:33:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by swiftsure.concentric.com id QAA01768; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:33:49 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200504062033.QAA01768@swiftsure.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:33:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200504061801.j36I0gSn026856@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j36KXtkn061081 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bliauts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a great picture - it shows several points I've been trying to document. What and where is it? Thanks! Julie ---- wrote: > Try this ..... > > http://tinyurl.com/6qse5 > > Jerusha > > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 16:40:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36KeF9T014336 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:40:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36KckLV019829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:38:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36Kckts065234; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:38:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36Kcfdv065060 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:38:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A8C8143B0054; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:38:32 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.119 ([209.131.81.119] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 6 Apr 05 20:38:30 -0000 Message-ID: <002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4250A2B5.2070707@lavoltapress.com><003101c5390e$b3b16540$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> <42540FB1.4050000@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:40:06 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran, I love this. Do you have an illustrator in mind? Great children's book!! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? > According to the story, a number of monks saw, handled, and closely > examined the garment. > > My interpretation is that an ambitous monk had a carefully formed plan > to elevate himself to prophethood. First he cultivated an image of > "humility and innocence." Then he started to claim that he discoursed > with angels. Nobody believed him, so he staged a miracle as proof. He > secretly had, or had access to, a garment made of some beautiful fabric > he knew would be unfamiliar to the other monks. Possibly the style was > also unfamiliar. The monk claimed that God would, on a specific night, > give him "a robe out of heaven." He then staged sound and light > effects from inside his cell, which no one else viewed from within the > cell. Possibly he did something as simple as light some candles, move > them around, and mutter to himself. The other monks' expectations > having been thoroughly aroused, the would-be prophet emerged from his > cell with the promised garment, which the others "carefully inspected." > "It was of the utmost softness, of marvelous brightness, and of > glittering purple, and yet no one could discover what was its nature, or > of what sort of fleece it had been formed. However, when it was > minutely examined by the eyes or fingers, it seemed nothing else than a > garment." > > However, the much-respected monk Clarus was skeptical, and wanted to > take the would-be prophet to St. Martin (who I think was the abbot but > I'd have to check) for further questioning. The monk refused. When he > was compelled to go against his will, " the garment vanished from among > the hands of those who were conducting him." Therfore the monks > concluded that the garment was the work of the devil and that the > spiritual power of St. Martin had made it disappear. > > Scoring, politically, a miracle for Martin instead of the monk. > > My interpretation is that one of the monks conducting the would-be > prophet, or a bystander, filched the garment. Quite possibly to > discredit the "prophet" by removing the evidence. Alternatively, > possibly one of the monks knew what the garment fabric actually was, and > also thought St. Martin might know; and was trying to protect the > "prophet" by removing the evidence. Or yet again, one of the monks > thought the garment might have intrinsic wordly value. > > By this time everybody was wrought up to perceive every occurrence as > magical, and political feeling was generally against the monk. If his > "miracle" had succeeded, his status would have been considerably raised; > and by staging more miracles, he might have elevated himself to > sainthood in time. > > But the question for costume historians is: What was the garment, as an > earthly phenomenon? > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > >Could this be an early tale of the family of "the Emperor's New Clothes"? > >Kathleen > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 16:50:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36Ko9ti014401 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:50:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36Kn5LV020789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36KmwdD074066; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:48:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36KmtBS074020 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:48:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.161] (p01.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.161]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j36Kk8p17444 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:46:08 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <20050406180300.81F10CA09C@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20050406180300.81F10CA09C@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:56:48 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Apr 6, 2005, at 12:03 PM, Katie Lewis wrote: > > Satine wrote > >> >> Hmmmm Princess seams are not period, Tehy are modern.... I have >> been scolded by many a Laurel about this...However I have been told >> by other Laurels as Long as its not an A& S project its >> fine....What does anyone else think????? > > I think it depends on what your goals are. If your goal is to have > clothing that is constructed in a manner that was used in Europe prior > to 1600, then princess seams are, to the best of my knowledge, right > out. If your goal is to have clothing that looks like "an attempt at > pre-17th century clothing" and is thus socially acceptable for use in > the SCA then princess seams are not a problem. I keep trying to figure out just how much authenticity my customer wants to go for and I am finding it very difficult to pin her down. I am not a member of the SCA myself and I gather that there are very wide variations in authenticity within the organization. This has probably come up in discussion before, but are there any standards that those of you know of who are in the SCA? Sylrog ' _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 17:04:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36L4wnS014485 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:04:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36L3bLV022530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36L3VmY086963; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:03:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36L3PxY086782 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:03:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so96179nzp for ; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:03:19 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=cH1xJGIhqgd+8GF5ytK65eT+9BhvQbx6UOmdxmuUBFyCDOehjsIUqMCDFWAGw8wB6ZpHtRUsMJTCw9ZVQsdVBp4cR31PShQe+5TLGQFeKb6V7753sRsZLJOqTB+ZJ2IpO5/BqCREVIc1mABu5u8+Po30BfB/R/SOlFRDKR5GWe0= Received: by 10.36.80.17 with SMTP id d17mr32894nzb; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.3 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:03:19 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Kimono X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Kimonos are still hand-sewn since they are taken apart for washing and then >reassembled. I had a cotton kimono that my father brought back after he >was stationed in Okinawa that was hand-sewn with long running stitches. >Joan They are often taken apart for cleaning, tho not necessarily. (Mine we not taken apart at the Shibuya cleaners.) I own 7 or 8, a few haori and at least 1/2 dozen obi of various styles. All acquired when I lived in Tokyo. We returned to the US in 2002. Mine are sewn in silk or cotton threads, it varies depending on the use of padding (as is my wedding furosode, a formal style) or seams. Some garments have both. Applied decorative elements are all sewn in silk. The fabrics are all silk. There are plenty of cotton yukata and happi coats for more casual wear such as baseball games (mine is for the Hanshin Tigers), sleep, office gifts (Raz, the DH, has one with his company logo) and the onsen (spa). The vast majority of stitches is, as the above author states, running stitches, tho my obis are whip stitched. The wedding kimono is blind hem stitched. In English, the best kimono care & feeding book is Norio Yamanaka "The Book of Kimono". The styles change every season (there are seasons just in summer) and of, course, eery year, so ignore that bit. Toodle around the Kyoto School of Kimono, the Kyoto Museum of Costume and the Bunka Gaguin for nifty photos. Mostly Japanese... gozaimaz'. At 09:48 AM 4/5/2005 -0600, you wrote: >I have another question for any kimono experts out there (I really love >this list--you guys are fabulous!). I'm in the process of altering some >authentic Japanese kimonos for use in a play I'm costuming. They are old >garments but I'm wondering how old they are, since they are >hand-sewn. Does that mean they are so old they were made before sewing >machines? I cant imagine that they would be in such good condition if >they were. Are kimonos still being hand sewn or would they have been >during the 20th century in spite of the presence of sewing machines? >They are made out of silk and it looks like the thread is silk too. > >Sylrog At stage distances no one will see your stitches. Just dont make them too tight. The above ref'd book also contains a spotters guide to fabrics & event or seasonal appropriateness of color, fiber & weave. Yes, it *is* a big deal. It's more codified than Victorian wear, if you can imagine. --cin Cynthia Barnes formerly "Cynthia in Tokyo" on this list _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 17:10:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36LARS6014503 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:10:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36L9NLV023277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:09:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36L9Dg6091971; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:09:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36L5Ouo088587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:05:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-141.sonic.net [209.148.113.141]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36L5Lcs000756 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:05:22 -0700 Message-ID: <42544F11.800@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:05:21 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? References: <4250A2B5.2070707@lavoltapress.com><003101c5390e$b3b16540$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> <42540FB1.4050000@lavoltapress.com> <002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have no intention of publishing St. Martin's story; this material has already been published as part of a hagiography. I'm an atheist besides. I'm just wondering about the mystery garment. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >Fran, I love this. Do you have an illustrator in mind? Great children's >book!! >Kathleen >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lavolta Press" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 12:34 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? > > > > >>According to the story, a number of monks saw, handled, and closely >>examined the garment. >> >>My interpretation is that an ambitous monk had a carefully formed plan >>to elevate himself to prophethood. First he cultivated an image of >>"humility and innocence." Then he started to claim that he discoursed >>with angels. Nobody believed him, so he staged a miracle as proof. He >>secretly had, or had access to, a garment made of some beautiful fabric >>he knew would be unfamiliar to the other monks. Possibly the style was >>also unfamiliar. The monk claimed that God would, on a specific night, >>give him "a robe out of heaven." He then staged sound and light >>effects from inside his cell, which no one else viewed from within the >>cell. Possibly he did something as simple as light some candles, move >>them around, and mutter to himself. The other monks' expectations >>having been thoroughly aroused, the would-be prophet emerged from his >>cell with the promised garment, which the others "carefully inspected." >>"It was of the utmost softness, of marvelous brightness, and of >>glittering purple, and yet no one could discover what was its nature, or >>of what sort of fleece it had been formed. However, when it was >>minutely examined by the eyes or fingers, it seemed nothing else than a >>garment." >> >>However, the much-respected monk Clarus was skeptical, and wanted to >>take the would-be prophet to St. Martin (who I think was the abbot but >>I'd have to check) for further questioning. The monk refused. When he >>was compelled to go against his will, " the garment vanished from among >>the hands of those who were conducting him." Therfore the monks >>concluded that the garment was the work of the devil and that the >>spiritual power of St. Martin had made it disappear. >> >>Scoring, politically, a miracle for Martin instead of the monk. >> >>My interpretation is that one of the monks conducting the would-be >>prophet, or a bystander, filched the garment. Quite possibly to >>discredit the "prophet" by removing the evidence. Alternatively, >>possibly one of the monks knew what the garment fabric actually was, and >>also thought St. Martin might know; and was trying to protect the >>"prophet" by removing the evidence. Or yet again, one of the monks >>thought the garment might have intrinsic wordly value. >> >>By this time everybody was wrought up to perceive every occurrence as >>magical, and political feeling was generally against the monk. If his >>"miracle" had succeeded, his status would have been considerably raised; >>and by staging more miracles, he might have elevated himself to >>sainthood in time. >> >>But the question for costume historians is: What was the garment, as an >>earthly phenomenon? >> >>Fran >>Lavolta Press >>http://www.lavoltapress.com >> >>Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >> >> >> >>>Could this be an early tale of the family of "the Emperor's New Clothes"? >>>Kathleen >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 17:14:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36LEYWg014512 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:14:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36LDELV023714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:13:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LDEno095807; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:13:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LDBoG095765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:13:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0017.floodcity.net ([198.93.211.17]:2372 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1DJHpn-0001p8-Gz for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:13:12 -0400 Message-ID: <425450E5.8090704@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:13:09 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns References: <20050406180300.81F10CA09C@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO she probably doesn't know herself. if she is new to sca she might not know that many people go to faires with medieval type clothing for fun and to have a good time. if she wants to enter contests or events she would need meticulous authenticity which she might not be ready for. if she just wants to have fun for now, ask her to bring you a photo of what she wants, or a list of the requirements for the contest she wants to enter, maybe that will help her to pin down what she wants. or alternatively, you could sit down with her and scetch out the design elements she wants to add. Kitty Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > On Apr 6, 2005, at 12:03 PM, Katie Lewis wrote: > >> >> Satine wrote >> >>> >>> Hmmmm Princess seams are not period, Tehy are modern.... I have >>> been scolded by many a Laurel about this...However I have been told >>> by other Laurels as Long as its not an A& S project its >>> fine....What does anyone else think????? >> >> >> I think it depends on what your goals are. If your goal is to have >> clothing that is constructed in a manner that was used in Europe >> prior to 1600, then princess seams are, to the best of my knowledge, >> right out. If your goal is to have clothing that looks like "an >> attempt at pre-17th century clothing" and is thus socially acceptable >> for use in the SCA then princess seams are not a problem. > > > I keep trying to figure out just how much authenticity my customer > wants to go for and I am finding it very difficult to pin her down. I > am not a member of the SCA myself and I gather that there are very > wide variations in authenticity within the organization. This has > probably come up in discussion before, but are there any standards > that those of you know of who are in the SCA? > > Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 17:22:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36LMDBM014534 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:22:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36LLLLV025082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:21:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LLBgZ003020; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:21:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LL1nv002852 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:21:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-92-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.44]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36LH2bb020871 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:17:02 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050406141603.025c03f0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:21:14 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? In-Reply-To: <42544F11.800@lavoltapress.com> References: <002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras> <4250A2B5.2070707@lavoltapress.com> <003101c5390e$b3b16540$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> <42540FB1.4050000@lavoltapress.com> <002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have no intention of publishing St. Martin's story; this material has >already been published as part of a hagiography. I'm an atheist >besides. I'm just wondering about the mystery garment. >>Fran, I love this. Do you have an illustrator in mind? Great children's >>book!! I don't think this is Fantasy enough to sell as a children's book, besides being too Catholic to keep the objectionable sort of Fundies happy. It's a good enough story for me, complete with a historical garment central to the plot, but not, I think, the kind of thing most modern children would like. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 17:42:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36LgMwT014620 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:42:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36LeULV027238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:40:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LeOcW019600; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:40:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:YQpl7CSavIEvvoyXdnryWbvR6oIxTxC7@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LeKsB019482 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:40:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j36LeFlp016949 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:40:15 -0400 Received: from dci012034013086.discovery.com ([12.34.13.86]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <56737.12.34.13.86.1112823615.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050406141603.025c03f0@mail.frys.com> References: <002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras><4250A2B5.2070707@lavoltapress.com><003101c5390e$b3b16540$6a5183d1@rmitchellras><42540FB1.4050000@lavoltapress.com><002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras> <4.3.1.2.20050406141603.025c03f0@mail.frys.com> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >>I have no intention of publishing St. Martin's story; this material has >>already been published as part of a hagiography. I'm an atheist >>besides. I'm just wondering about the mystery garment. > >>>Fran, I love this. Do you have an illustrator in mind? Great >>> children's book!! > > I don't think this is Fantasy enough to sell as a children's book, besides > being too Catholic to keep the objectionable sort of Fundies happy. It's > a good enough story for me, complete with a historical garment central > to the plot, but not, I think, the kind of thing most modern children would like. > CarolynKayta Barrows It's not like someone is trying to get it adopted as a textbook - there are plenty of niches in pubishing, even for children's books. I saw some beautiful ones a couple years back that were stories and explanations of Buddhism. As a children's story, though, it would need some simplifcation - who is the good guy, who is the bad guy. And that's what I find interesting, the fact that it is not clear cut. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 17:45:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36LjUcF014632 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:45:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36LiNLV027909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:44:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LiNvc023461; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:44:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LiJ9D023381 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:44:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LMT3OMYRF4IXTYWK@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:44:17 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LMT3OM5MDWIU3OL6@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:44:17 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:44:50 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42545852.9090107@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050406180300.81F10CA09C@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > I keep trying to figure out just how much authenticity my customer > wants to go for and I am finding it very difficult to pin her down. I > am not a member of the SCA myself and I gather that there are very > wide variations in authenticity within the organization. This has > probably come up in discussion before, but are there any standards > that those of you know of who are in the SCA? > The onl Society-wide standard is "an attempt at pre-17th century clothing". Local groups vary _hugely_ in terms of the encouragement of authenticity. I strongly suggest that your client discuss this with members of her local group. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 17:53:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36LruOu014731 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:53:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36Lr7LV029421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LqvbF031876; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:52:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LqqNZ031783 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:52:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-92-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.44]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36LqHnu002627 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:52:19 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050406143620.025cb858@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:49:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows In-Reply-To: <20050403084035.40393.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6667> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hooks and eyes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have Heard that Hook and Eyes are period... I am lookng into that..... There are two portraits in Davenport's costume book that show hooks and eyes being used in the early 1500s, and Janet Arnold's _Patterns Of Fashion_ book covering the mid- to late-1500s shows photographs of these on actual historical garments. I'd like to think they go back earlier, but I have no way to prove it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 17:54:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36LsMaB014737 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:54:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36Lr6LV029422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36Lqups031853; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:52:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LqqKn031761 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:52:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-92-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.44]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36LqHns002627 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:52:18 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050406142301.025eb2e0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:49:09 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns In-Reply-To: References: <20050406180300.81F10CA09C@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> <20050406180300.81F10CA09C@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >This has probably come up in discussion before, but are there any >standards that those of you know of who are in the SCA? I think the rule of thumb is "as authentic as possible", but I know nobody has ever been thrown out of the SCA for costuming somebody else didn't think was authentic enough (I've seen some doozies since 1971...). At one end of the costuming range are those folks without a clue, without much sewing skill, or without much money, who start out with their own ideas of what's right. At the other end of the costuming range are published costume scholars, "costume Laurels", and folks who write long posts on h-costume. So as far as most of the SCA in concerned, anything that looks "Medieval", including some of the products of recent commercial patterns, and Ren. Faire garments, will be fine. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 17:57:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36LvFIH014762 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:57:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36LuPLV029774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:56:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LuNcx034917; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:56:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36Lqrg8031797 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:52:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-92-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.44]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36LqHnw002627 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:52:20 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050406144027.025ce958@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:53:09 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval dress In-Reply-To: <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I wish she could have consulted with me before ever starting this project >but since she already has the fabric, I'm not sure what to advise her now. Advise her that you need to know what she wants or you can't sew it, and when she tells you then you can come up with an estimate. But make her be specific, not just "I want something 'authentic'". Pin her down to one historical image or one existing (=in her hand) pattern. If she keeps waffling, you may not get this job. No comfort, sorry. But it won't be your fault, it will be her fault, and you'll be out from under this project. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 18:35:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36MZK4T014869 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:35:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36MWdLV003473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:32:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36MWUhN067950; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:32:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41902.mail.yahoo.com (web41902.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j36MWPRG067813 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:32:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 92802 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Apr 2005 22:32:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=gxe3QvymfxmgnUF4Atr+nfbmYRckAAfrm+TVfD8GnbyO2p6EB4swjyoZmUfLlBiiSXJrW/Uxv/I7xcNikiZPKWTSCmLq36AjU1J67PcHOXAst8dXx+bfPHIK9J3nIGzt27EbSQ8TRPKyUW4K6X8SluCOro7tw0N/iA5f9SiyBmQ= ; Message-ID: <20050406223220.92799.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.73] by web41902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:32:20 PDT Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:32:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Early construction (was: Bliauts) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Depends when I was younger My Mama Made a princess outfir for me out of 125 yr old silk Kimono and Lace from Her Great Great Great Grandmothers Wedding dress.. circa 1880 or so...... None of us could use thesse Items and they were Beautifully stored.... and why yes it is NOT the norm... Just saying......Its a possibility. Itams were handed down and Reused.... why do you think Gores in some dresswere of a different color... they generally wer not planned that way, Just what was on hand..... Satine.... Marc Carlson wrote: From: Hope Greenberg >>There are even bogfinds (Skjoldehamn) which have been dated to the 14th >>century "judging by the type of clothing" where C14 dating has revealed an >>actual date of 1000-1100..... >I've always wondered about those. Does anyone specify whether they think >the clothing might be 14th century but the fabric from an earlier time >period. I mean that the 14th cent. article might have been >constructed/reconstructed from older fabric. Or is it just assumed that >fabric age=construction age? This is occasionally suggested, yes. How many people are going to make daily wear clothes out of 3-400 year old wool? Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 19:01:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36N1U3R015075 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:01:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36N0TLV006204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36N0OoI091828; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:00:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41904.mail.yahoo.com (web41904.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j36N0F4J091670 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:00:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 56279 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Apr 2005 23:00:08 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=N7L3zBWfHP7P3DW98V4WQXvNXKjHRyf8SuzLiTKu3cFS4SdBB4lTbPvaKENdWIc5Y4zTquEGTsyY0smhUxSU2CC8t0wzniQBml5y8EKJuMN0AdyXF2PQz9Mm3D0GHL2RyyNIENfEOZuXFCJiNngNl++VudLAmGt3IxuNODbYx2M= ; Message-ID: <20050406230008.56277.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.73] by web41904.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:00:08 PDT Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:00:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Katie Lewis wrote: I think it depends on what your goals are. If your goal is to have clothing that is constructed in a manner that was used in Europe prior to 1600, then princess seams are, to the best of my knowledge, right out. If your goal is to have clothing that looks like "an attempt at pre-17th century clothing" and is thus socially acceptable for use in the SCA then princess seams are not a problem. True. allI knew was Princess seams are not period they were used post period but never the why. or more details. AND I never use this kind of a seam so It never crossed my mind to check it out more. .... > I would use Grommets and not Eyelets because > eyelets pull out easier than Grommets. Out of curiosity, has this been your experience, or is this something that you have heard? I have *never* seen or heard of a handsewn eyelet ripping out, while grommets seem to go all the time. As for covering a grommet with thread, that just seems like too much work to me :) Yes this has been my experience.... Eyelets have been awlful for me Due to the second part of them splitting they act like shears and cut the fabric. I was advised many eons ago for added support to sew arround them and they should not do that....... while Grommets have never split on me when the two pieces are Banged on withthe mallet They have held up really, really well by themselves and with me hand sewing arround them to "hide the shiny thing".. Very time consuming.. I only do it on my gowns when the mood strikes me... ie. Boredom. >... I have Heard that Hook > and Eyes are period... I am lookng into that..... Janet Arnold has several examples in _Patterns of Fashion vol.I_, I don't remember when exactly hooks and eyes were introduced, but I think it was in the late 15th or 16th century. This is in no way directed at you, but pet peeve of mine is people claiming that "x is period" or "y is not period" without saying where and when. In my experience "X is period" is used to mean "X was invented in Albania in 1598" just as often as it is used to mean "X has been common as dirt for most of human history". Ditto for "y is not period". > See my First reply. as to this! .... Very Democraticaly put! ! Not taken personally It happens here A LOT!!!!!! Then perople get fussy when too many questions are asked~! > Under arrm sleves v. towards the back....I would check it out further... Again, sleeve placement depends a great deal on where/when. Depends on Which "Period Police" you ask! At least in my neck of the woods... I have a dozen reasons I do not like that pattern it looks costumey > to me even with amazing fabric That may be because it *is* a costume, and intended to be such :) LOL!!!!!!! too true..... my two cents, Me thinks you were short changed there...... Satine Katie Buffy: And what are we if not women up to a challenge? Willow: Exactly! I mean, did we not put the 'grr' in girl? -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 19:07:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36N7swb015113 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:07:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36N5ALV006691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:05:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36N55vo095675; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:05:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36N51DY095600 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:05:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16195 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:19:43 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:19:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns In-Reply-To: <42541BA7.8080702@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia wrote: > > This message brought to you by the Robin Netherton Fan Club. I wrote: > > !!! Cynthia replied: > Hope I didn't annoy you, but I wanted to attribute the ideas properly > and with a little humor. I am honored. It's always a pleasure to be quoted correctly, too. > > The earliest > > of those particular bust-supporting seams I've seen is about 1450 for > > Western Europe. > > Y'know, somehow I never really internalized this so efficiently. "No > prince seams before 1450" is fairly easy to remember, though. For certain definitions of "princess seams," as noted earlier, and for Western Europe. 1450 is the date of the portrait of the Madonna played by Agnes Sorel. I do see some clues in the 1440s of constructions that use shaping seams positioned between center and sides, typically in fitted dresses that also have waist seams and so are a very different matter altogether from the "princess-line dress" as modernly conceived. > Although of course that Museum of London book illustration of the cote > with princess-like seaming is going to be in the brains of everyone > for a long, long time; I think I remember your lecture addressed it as > a poor drawing of reality? Your memory is correct. That picture is an artist's conception of the Greenland H. 41 garment, which (1) is almost certainly a man's gown and (2) bears little resemblance to that picture in proportions or drape. You may remember my mockup and the photos of the young man and lady wearing it (in sequence, not simultaneously). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 19:16:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36NGrwl015153 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:16:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36NFgLV007618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:15:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36NFd0P004001; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:15:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36NFbQw003817 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:15:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id AA8411BCA9A; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 23:15:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust60.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.60]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C94E51BCA99 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 23:15:21 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <039e01c53afe$a9587ce0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6667> <4.3.1.2.20050406143620.025cb858@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooks and eyes Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:16:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > I'd like to think they go back earlier, but I have no way to prove it. They go back at least as far as 1442, where they're shown in a portrait of the court jester Gonella by Jean Fouquet: http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/buch2-12.jpg I've also seen pictures (or maybe just diagrams? can't remember clearly; allergies or possibly a cold have destroyed my brain) of extant Roman 'hooks and eyes' which to me, frankly didn't look too much like hooks and eyes. Basically, though I think there's some sort of armorial fastening that works on the hook-and-eye principle that does go back much further. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 19:23:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36NN1eY015176 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:23:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36NLnLV008157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:21:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36NLjRS008680; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:21:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36NLfkV008602 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:21:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16325 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:36:23 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:36:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] MC&T Journal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Catherine Kinsey wrote: > I truly expected most people to plan on borrowing copies through > libraries, and I've been stunned and > impressed by the number of people who are buying their own copies > > Robin > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Maybe we want to help be sure there is a second volume :). For this I am very grateful :-) I can state with authority that you folks made a heck of an impression on my publisher. Now I have to hope we live up to the expectations! --Robin ========================================================== Robin Netherton // Editor at Large robin@nightowl.net voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1333 Life is just a bowl of queries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 19:37:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j36NbImu015280 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:37:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j36NZoLV009665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:35:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36NZVbW019177; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:35:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav16.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.88]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36NZJQa018961 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:35:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:35:13 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by BAY106-DAV16.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:35:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050406180300.81F10CA09C@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:35:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2005 23:35:13.0836 (UTC) FILETIME=[47F7DEC0:01C53B01] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This has probably come up in discussion before, but are there any > standards that those of you know of who are in the SCA? One word of caution here: that can be a touchy subject. I know on this list we're usually okay with those kinds of discussions, but I've seen weird things happen on other lists when talking about those subjects. No. There is no standard in the SCA. The Corpora states "reasonable attempt at pre-17th century" garb and that's it. You'll find that the level of authenticity varies wildly between events. Even if elves and gnomes are usually not well received, we fraternize with a number of other groups who don't have the same goals we have. I'm thinking of the Tuchux at Pennsic, for example. There's people who're in the SCA only for fighting, or cooking, or any other activity, and couldn't care less about clothing: they'll throw a quick T-thing over black jeans and biker boots, and sitting around the same campfire you'll have cabaret-style belly-dancers, as well as full Elizabethan and authentic early T-tunic-type garb. That's the paradox of the SCA, the eternal joy of not having the pressure of being authentic, and the eternal frustration that everything is so modern. The "no standard" policy has many advantages and as many disadvantages, but I think it helped the SCA spread and grow the way it has: it's all-inclusive, and doesn't require a heavy involvment, which facilitates greatly the creation of groups and the welcoming of new members. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 20:18:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j370IgAI015413 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j370FQLV013386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:15:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j370FMTb049318; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:15:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-01.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j370FGA5049206 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:15:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 17486 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2005 00:15:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.6.15) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 7 Apr 2005 00:15:15 -0000 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:21:34 +1000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] exhibition project X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I'm putting together a proposal with costings to put together an exhibition of women's clothing in Australia from 1788 - 1901. I'm looking to display both the day and evening gowns and their underpinnings and supports. I've only just started putting together the proposal, so would love any hints or suggestions that I should consider. I will the one making the garments - I'm looking at finding paintings of Australian women in this time-frame and copying the garments featured in them, that way they could be displayed with the painting and be more of a research project. I'm also hoping to put together a book detailing the progress of making all the garments. Warmest Regards, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 20:31:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j370V5to015520 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:31:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j370TpLV014651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:29:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j370Tm97059839; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:29:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j370Tjw7059738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:29:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j371j0HD032318 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:45:00 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] MC&T Journal Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:29:38 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200504062029.38786.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 06 April 2005 7:36 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Catherine Kinsey wrote: > > I truly expected most people to plan on borrowing copies through > > libraries, and I've been stunned and > > impressed by the number of people who are buying their own copies > > > > Robin > > > > Maybe we want to help be sure there is a second volume :). > > For this I am very grateful :-) > > I can state with authority that you folks made a heck of an impression on > my publisher. Now I have to hope we live up to the expectations! I think MC&T will. I know, Robin, that you've been concerned that people will buy MC&T, expecting it to be a how-to or a costume survey, instead of a journal of scholarly essays on a variety of costume-related issues (some of which, I'm sure, may be relatively unrelated to costume re-creation or construction). But speaking for myself, I would rather have to wade through a "scholarly" work for information that really will enhance my knowledge of historic costume, than read a dozen well-meaning "surveys" repeating the same things "everyone" knows, and that are in many instances, flat-out wrong. Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 20:42:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j370gPrf015567 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:42:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j370f7LV015586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:41:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j370ewcP068153; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:40:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j370etcA068106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:40:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j370YemT023454 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:34:40 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 20:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42548195.2010900@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 20:40:53 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Eyelets vs. grommets Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns References: <20050406230008.56277.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050406230008.56277.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lady Satine wrote: > Out of curiosity, has this been your experience, or is this something > that you have heard? I have *never* seen or heard of a handsewn eyelet ripping out, while grommets seem to go all the time. As for covering a grommet with thread, that just seems like too much work to me :) > > > Yes this has been my experience.... Eyelets have been awlful for me Due to the second part of them splitting they act like shears and cut the fabric. I was advised many eons ago for added support to sew arround them and they should not do that....... > > while Grommets have never split on me when the two pieces are Banged on withthe mallet I think we're seeing a "definitions" problem here, and resulting disconnect. Most of the time, people on this list use the term "eyelet" to refer to a hole poked in the fabric and button-hole-stitched around the hole to keep it open. No metal is involved. Grommets would be the sort that you whap with a mallet, in two pieces, which cut the threads as it is attached. How do you use the terms, Satine? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The World Health Organization is campaigning to reduce the numbers of women and babies who die during pregnancy and childbirth. Each year, half a million women die in pregnancy and four million newborns do not survive more than a month. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 20:56:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j370uq29015650 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:56:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j370tPLV016763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:55:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j370tMWC078749; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:55:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j370tJdb078703 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:55:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LMTADEMVYOIU3LBM@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:55:16 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LMTADCT6M8IU3S0Q@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:55:15 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:55:48 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: Eyelets vs. grommets Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns In-reply-to: <42548195.2010900@thibault.org> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42548514.6050606@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050406230008.56277.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> <42548195.2010900@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Most of the time, people on this list use the term "eyelet" to refer > to a hole poked in the fabric and button-hole-stitched around the hole > to keep it open. No metal is involved. Grommets would be the sort > that you whap with a mallet, in two pieces, which cut the threads as > it is attached. Personally, I tend to specify: Handsewn eyelet = just that Metal eyelet = one piece metal eyelet pressed into place with an eyelet press tool through a pre-made awl hole. I always thoroughly oversew mine. Grommets = two piece metal eye, often large. I never use these. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 21:22:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j371MLpS015775 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:22:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j371LGLV019055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:21:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j371LARa097545; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:21:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j371L8Th097463 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:21:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 16B9118001C8 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:21:27 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.33) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 7 Apr 2005 01:21:29 -0000 Received: by ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 529EACA07A; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:21:32 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [129.219.247.33] by ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 20:21:32 -0500 From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 20:21:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns X-Originating-Ip: 129.219.247.33 X-Originating-Server: ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050407012132.529EACA07A@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j371L8Th097463 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I apologize to the list for this SCA specific post. I would like to note that I think that what I have to say about SCA garb is true of people who do other time periods as well. Sylrog wrote: > This > has probably come up in discussion before, but are there any > standards that those of you know of who are in the SCA? The only offical standard is "A reasonable attempt at Pre-17th century clothing", with no definition of what "A reasonable attempt" means. In my area there are four easily identifiable levels. 1) absolute minimum is a cotton T-tunic worn over modern underwear, with modern hair. 2)Middle of the road (which it sounds like your client falls) is wearing clothing that can be identified as belonging to a particular era, made out of fabric that dosen't look glaringly modern, ie no safety orange lyrca, will use modern undergarments if the garment provides no support, may cover the head. 3)A slightly higher level of middle of the road is a honest (although not always successful) attempt to replicate the construction methods used in garments of that period, and will use as close to appropriate fabric as is possible. Will probobly use machine stiching where it dosen't show, may do visible stiching by hand. Head will be covered if appropriate to persona. 4) Highest commonly found level of authenticity is pretty much like #3, will generally do all of their sewing by hand, makes slightly more effort to find appropriate fabric and materials (dreams of hand woven, hand spun fabric), will not be caught dead without a hat. Many people, especially if they are new to the SCA, or have just decided that they want to have better looking garb are hard to pin down about where they want their garb to fall on this rough spectrum. You might want to flatly ask the client "How authentic do you want this dress to be?" my two pence, Katie Buffy: And what are we if not women up to a challenge? Willow: Exactly! I mean, did we not put the 'grr' in girl? -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 21:25:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j371P3LT015791 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:25:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j371NiLV019299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j371NioC099270; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:23:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j371NfqZ099215 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:23:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17272 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:38:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:38:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 4 Apr 2005, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > What are lacing rings? The metal rings that have been mentioned in > previous posts? If so, I'm not sure what they are, where you get them > and how they work? I don't know if this was ever answered. These are simple round wire rings. Soldered jump rings work well. (You can get them from jewelry suppliers, but don't get the unsoldered ones!) Sew them down at one side of the ring to the edge of the garment, or just inside the edge, leaving the rest of the ring unattached. Run your lace through them. They are like freestanding holes. --Robin suddenly flashing on the sea of freestanding holes in "Yellow Submarine" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 21:31:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j371VZYj015837 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:31:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j371UeLV019784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:30:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j371UbsY004148; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:30:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j371UY8i004066 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:30:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id E28B218001AA for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:30:53 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.31) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 7 Apr 2005 01:30:56 -0000 Received: by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A8297E5BC7; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:30:56 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [129.219.247.33] by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 20:30:56 -0500 From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 20:30:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns X-Originating-Ip: 129.219.247.33 X-Originating-Server: ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050407013056.A8297E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j371UY8i004066 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lady Satine wrote: > Yes this has been my experience.... Eyelets have been awlful for me > Due to the second part of them splitting they act like shears and > cut the fabric. I was advised many eons ago for added support to > sew arround them and they should not do that....... How are you making your eyelets? -Katie Buffy: And what are we if not women up to a challenge? Willow: Exactly! I mean, did we not put the 'grr' in girl? -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 22:07:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3727i7B016003 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:07:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3724mLV022737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:04:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3724aRV028508; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:04:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net (smtp4.suscom.net [64.78.119.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3724XRX028305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:04:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B917415014A for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 24698-01-52 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B8A261500EA for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <039301c53b16$0174d380$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:03:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > --Robin > suddenly flashing on the sea of freestanding holes in "Yellow Submarine" > Oh great. Now THAT will be stuck in my head all night!! Though there are worse things than the Beatles.. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 22:50:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j372oRgt016247 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:50:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j372miLV026399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:48:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j372mc8I059332; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:48:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j372mZMd059261 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:48:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050407024829.ZSWX7126.mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:48:29 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.202.221]) by pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050407024829.XGQI7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:48:29 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.9.4]); Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:48:30 +1200 Message-ID: <00b501c53b1c$483875f0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:48:29 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] lacing rings was: medieval gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > What are lacing rings? The metal rings that have been mentioned in > > previous posts? If so, I'm not sure what they are, where you get them > > and how they work? > > I don't know if this was ever answered. > > These are simple round wire rings. Soldered jump rings work well. (You can > get them from jewelry suppliers, but don't get the unsoldered ones!) Sew > them down at one side of the ring to the edge of the garment, or just > inside the edge, leaving the rest of the ring unattached. Run your lace > through them. They are like freestanding holes. I use either brass curtain rings (especially useful for obvious lacing rings like those seen in the open laced Burgundian styles or Saxon court gowns) or solid brass rig rings from the fishing shop. They can be hard to find or explain as you'll often get jump rings instead. They can be bought over the internet, though I've mostly found non-brass rig rings. I also tend to sew them down at least half way if they are to be hidden to prevent the rings being wiggled so they start to show due to stress from the lacing. Often to 3/4 way around to also make less room for the lacing to roam about. They can also be sewn to the outside as one of the Weyden figures show. They can then be used decoratively. I don't think I've got any images of the rig rings on my site... but you can see the large curtain rings on my Burgundian: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/burgundian.htm I also have used the eyes of hooks and eyes for a closer fit on my big yellow flemish dress, they are also easier to sew in as you sew them like normal. regards, michaela -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.4 - Release Date: 6/04/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 6 23:56:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j373ulcg016506 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 23:56:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j373tbLV005386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:55:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j373tV8T009840; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:55:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j373tRA0009712 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:55:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Appin1@aol.com) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r5.33.) id 6.1c6.261054d8 (4116) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 23:55:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <1c6.261054d8.2f860922@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 23:55:14 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooks and eyes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have seen a Durer painting of an old man, c. 1475 that clearly shows hooks and eyes. Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 00:04:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3744AbX016563 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:04:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3743DLV006456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:03:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37433r1015439; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:03:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3742xJX015364 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:02:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m184.in-tch.com [216.166.191.184]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j373wso28268 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:58:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4254B238.3080403@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:08:24 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Eyelets vs. grommets Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns References: <20050406230008.56277.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> <42548195.2010900@thibault.org> <42548514.6050606@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <42548514.6050606@paradise.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd add the further distinction that with grommets, one of the two pieces generally has "teeth" that go through the fabric and help prevent it from spinning around in the hole. The matching half, on good quality grommets, will have a rolled rim that holds the teeth, when you have finished smashing them together (highly technical term, I know....) --sue, who can't begin to count the 1000s of grommets she put into tents over the years (we used a several-pound brass mallet thingy, wrapped in rawhide...boyohboy do you get arm muscles after a while!) Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Cynthia Virtue wrote: > >> Most of the time, people on this list use the term "eyelet" to refer >> to a hole poked in the fabric and button-hole-stitched around the hole >> to keep it open. No metal is involved. Grommets would be the sort >> that you whap with a mallet, in two pieces, which cut the threads as >> it is attached. > > > > Personally, I tend to specify: > > Handsewn eyelet = just that > Metal eyelet = one piece metal eyelet pressed into place with an eyelet > press tool through a pre-made awl hole. I always thoroughly oversew mine. > Grommets = two piece metal eye, often large. I never use these. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 00:06:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3746hGx016586 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:06:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3745oLV007113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:05:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3745lJS017639; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:05:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3745iSp017599 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:05:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m184.in-tch.com [216.166.191.184]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j3741fo28811 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:01:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4254B2DF.90900@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:11:11 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown References: <039301c53b16$0174d380$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> In-Reply-To: <039301c53b16$0174d380$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the town where I was born lived a man who sailed to sea.... --sue, who actually has "Yellow Submarine" on LP (oh good lord, I've had that album for 30 years!) Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > >> --Robin >> suddenly flashing on the sea of freestanding holes in "Yellow Submarine" >> > > > Oh great. Now THAT will be stuck in my head all night!! > > Though there are worse things than the Beatles.. > > Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 00:23:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j374NVfQ016678 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:23:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j374MNLV009260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:22:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j374MJMx029696; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:22:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j374MGtS029604 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:22:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18694 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 23:36:59 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 23:36:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown In-Reply-To: <4254B2DF.90900@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Sue Clemenger wrote: > In the town > where I was born > lived a man > who sailed to sea.... > --sue, who actually has "Yellow Submarine" on LP (oh good lord, I've > had that album for 30 years!) Saw the movie in its first release. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 00:29:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j374TBed016722 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:29:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j374S0LV010253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j374Ruqp033960; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:27:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j374Rrrb033882 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:27:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j374Rlc06984 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:27:47 -0400 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:29:34 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4254B2DF.90900@in-tch.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT:Yellow Submarine was: medieval gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, My daughter wants to sing the yellow Submarine in a talent contest at school. I have been trying to find it on line at one of the legal download sites. I will admit that I haven't done an exhaustive search. Does anyone by any chance have an mpg of this song? Thanks! And now back to your regularly schedule fascinating talk of textiles n'stuff... Althea On Wednesday, April 6, 2005, at 09:11 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > In the town > where I was born > lived a man > who sailed to sea.... > --sue, who actually has "Yellow Submarine" on LP (oh good lord, > I've had that album for 30 years!) > > Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > >>> --Robin >>> suddenly flashing on the sea of freestanding holes in "Yellow >>> Submarine" >>> >> Oh great. Now THAT will be stuck in my head all night!! >> Though there are worse things than the Beatles.. >> Dianne > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 00:42:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j374gBDO016779 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:42:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j374fELV012417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:41:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j374fBma043916; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:41:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j374f8F0043893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:41:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0034.floodcity.net ([198.93.211.34]:2519 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1DJOpL-0008Ib-HS for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:41:12 -0400 Message-ID: <4254B9DD.4000000@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:41:01 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? References: <002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras> <4250A2B5.2070707@lavoltapress.com> <003101c5390e$b3b16540$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> <42540FB1.4050000@lavoltapress.com> <002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras> <4.3.1.2.20050406141603.025c03f0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050406141603.025c03f0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> I have no intention of publishing St. Martin's story; this material >> has already been published as part of a hagiography. I'm an atheist >> besides. I'm just wondering about the mystery garment. > > >>> Fran, I love this. Do you have an illustrator in mind? Great >>> children's >>> book!! >> > > I don't think this is Fantasy enough to sell as a children's book, > besides being too Catholic to keep the objectionable sort of Fundies > happy. It's a good enough story for me, complete with a historical > garment central to the plot, but not, I think, the kind of thing most > modern children would like. > unless you could come up with some sort of way cool, si-fi or fantasy magic ending as to what happened and what the garment was. go off into fiction rather. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 00:53:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j374rZBQ016851 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:53:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j374qhLV013130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:52:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j374qbSc051354; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:52:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j374qYTM051316 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:52:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j374qXck029371 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:52:33 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.92.44] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-92-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.44]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j374qR5m035828 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:52:33 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050406214847.02636760@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:49:15 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns In-Reply-To: <20050407012132.529EACA07A@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I apologize to the list for this SCA specific post. I would like to note >that I think that what I have to say about SCA garb is true of people who >do other time periods as well. Like museum docents. I agree. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 00:55:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j374tWp4016862 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:55:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j374sLLV013267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:54:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j374sL2m052500; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:54:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j374sI6B052463 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:54:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j374sIck030808 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:54:18 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.92.44] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-92-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.44]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j374sH5k036798 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:54:18 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050406215314.026261a8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:53:31 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? In-Reply-To: <4254B9DD.4000000@floodcity.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20050406141603.025c03f0@mail.frys.com> <002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras> <4250A2B5.2070707@lavoltapress.com> <003101c5390e$b3b16540$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> <42540FB1.4050000@lavoltapress.com> <002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras> <4.3.1.2.20050406141603.025c03f0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kitty Felton writes, in a message sent 12:41 AM 4/7/2005 -0400: >Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> >>>I have no intention of publishing St. Martin's story; this material has >>>already been published as part of a hagiography. I'm an atheist >>>besides. I'm just wondering about the mystery garment. >> >> >>>>Fran, I love this. Do you have an illustrator in mind? Great children's >>>>book!! >> >>I don't think this is Fantasy enough to sell as a children's book, >>besides being too Catholic to keep the objectionable sort of Fundies >>happy. It's a good enough story for me, complete with a historical >>garment central to the plot, but not, I think, the kind of thing most >>modern children would like. >unless you could come up with some sort of way cool, si-fi or fantasy >magic ending as to what happened and what the garment was. go off into >fiction rather. Kitty Historical fantasy - that could work. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 02:30:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j376UX9w026080 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 02:30:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j376TBLV019489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j376SwrL013173; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:28:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from adl0728.systems.sa.gov.au (adl0728.systems.sa.gov.au [143.216.236.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j376Ssfv013031 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:28:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tonkin.rebecca@saugov.sa.gov.au) Received: from adl0728.systems.sa.gov.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by adl0728.systems.sa.gov.au OUTGOING (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j376SkJB014712 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:58:46 +0930 (CST)' Received: from sagemsbb012.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au (sagemsbb012.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au [143.216.59.22]) by adl0728.systems.sa.gov.au INCOMING (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j376SkKl014706 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:58:46 +0930 (CST)' Received: by sagemsbb012.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:58:46 +0930 Message-ID: From: "Tonkin, Rebecca (PIRSA-SARDI)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:58:44 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: medieval dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Sylvia: > Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > > I passed on the conclusion I came to with all your help in > regard to > > the Butterick pattern and its lack of historical accuracy to my > > customer, thinking she would want to go ahead anyhow, but > it appears > > she may want to try something else that is more period accurate. That's positive. :) > > Unfortunately, the fabric she has already purchased is not anything > > found in the Middle Ages. She's already bought a lot of it > and it is > > lovely fabric. Do I tell her or just ignore that and > proceed with > > whatever we both decide to make? If it was me, it would depend on how period-like it is. Many people go by the "10-yard rule" (or some variation thereof) which essentially is, "if it looks ok from a distance, it'll do". If you go this route, leopard-prints and cabbage roses are bad, but plain materials, although not necessarily period fibres, will pass. If it's a patterned brocade, if it looks ok from a distance, then for a newcomer it should be fine. Acanthus leaves, for example (twirly swirly regular pattern like acanthus leaves found in manuscripts) are commonly used in brocades around here. Also small regular shapes like diamonds or suns or fleur-de-lis, and various vine/flower combinations that have a regular repeat. Also stylised pineapples and/or pomegranates. These may not be indisputably 100% "period", but they all give a good look, and are the closest we can get for reasonable prices. She is thinking now of > using McCalls > > 2806, which can be found here: > > http://www.reddawn.net/costume/mccalls.htm > Have a look at this site: http://polaris.umuc.edu/~jthies/mcitalrennotes.html and http://homepages.wmich.edu/~rowen/renbk/rendressbook.html which may give you some more ideas about how renaissance garb goes. Those sites give dresses which look very similar to the ones your client liked, and may help you figure out how to make the pattern more authentic if you choose to use it. HTH Rebecca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 03:34:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j377Y3b3012078 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 03:34:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j377WfLV023197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j377WWWb054755; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:32:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.fuse.net (mail-out1.fuse.net [216.68.8.174]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j377WTHh054652 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:32:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jemarshall@fuse.net) Received: from gx6.fuse.net ([66.42.216.148]) by smtp1.fuse.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with ESMTP id <20050407072910.NIOF1014.smtp1.fuse.net@gx6.fuse.net> for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 03:29:10 -0400 Received: from netzero.fuse.net ([66.42.216.148]) by gx6.fuse.net (InterMail vG.1.02.00.02 201-2136-104-102-20041210) with ESMTP id <20050407072719.FPGW9404.gx6.fuse.net@netzero.fuse.net> for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 03:27:19 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20050407030836.00af5d20@pop.fuse.net> X-Sender: jemarshall@pop.fuse.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 03:11:13 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: "J.E. Marshall" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns In-Reply-To: References: <20050406180300.81F10CA09C@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-21304FB5 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think that this is a very good and correct sentiment regarding the SCA. I have always told people that have shown slight interest in joining or hearing about but are reluctant because they don't have a lot of time/money to do much that you will get out of it what you put in. If your goal is to make friends and learn things, then by all means be comfortable. Jennifer At 07:35 PM 4/6/05 -0400, you wrote: >>This has probably come up in discussion before, but are there any >>standards that those of you know of who are in the SCA? > >One word of caution here: that can be a touchy subject. I know on this >list we're usually okay with those kinds of discussions, but I've seen >weird things happen on other lists when talking about those subjects. > >No. There is no standard in the SCA. The Corpora states "reasonable >attempt at pre-17th century" garb and that's it. You'll find that the >level of authenticity varies wildly between events. Even if elves and >gnomes are usually not well received, we fraternize with a number of other >groups who don't have the same goals we have. I'm thinking of the Tuchux >at Pennsic, for example. There's people who're in the SCA only for >fighting, or cooking, or any other activity, and couldn't care less about >clothing: they'll throw a quick T-thing over black jeans and biker boots, >and sitting around the same campfire you'll have cabaret-style >belly-dancers, as well as full Elizabethan and authentic early >T-tunic-type garb. That's the paradox of the SCA, the eternal joy of not >having the pressure of being authentic, and the eternal frustration that >everything is so modern. The "no standard" policy has many advantages and >as many disadvantages, but I think it helped the SCA spread and grow the >way it has: it's all-inclusive, and doesn't require a heavy involvment, >which facilitates greatly the creation of groups and the welcoming of new >members. _______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.4 - Release Date: 4/6/05 what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail? Anon. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.4 - Release Date: 4/6/05 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 03:36:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j377a3Kc012272 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 03:36:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j377Z2LV023302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j377Z0Nt056237; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:35:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j377YvJU056188 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:34:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BCD9391C3 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 02:34:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p390.socket.net [64.85.215.136]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 713ADD3CF for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 02:34:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 02:34:58 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20050406230008.56277.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.wga.hu/index1.html Go to: "G" then to: Giottino (Giotto di Stefano) Pieta of San Remigio Note the young woman kneeling on the left with the bishop's hand on her head. Go to: Giovanni da Milano Birth of the Virgin Note the lady on the left. This is a gown that has been debated as to whether the red in a gown in an of itself or a red panel with red gores. So the McCalls 3552 without train and narrow straight sleeves could be adapted to look somewhat like these. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 03:51:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j377pI2L013677 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 03:51:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j377o9LV023988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:50:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j377o6uF065469; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:50:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j377nwGC065305 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:50:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2005 07:49:52 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050407084728.015ac190@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:50:01 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns and sleeve seams? In-Reply-To: References: <20050406230008.56277.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:34 07/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: >http://www.wga.hu/index1.html >Go to: > "G" >then to: >Giottino (Giotto di Stefano) >Pieta of San Remigio >Note the young woman kneeling on the left with the bishop's hand on her >head. >Go to: >Giovanni da Milano >Birth of the Virgin >Note the lady on the left. This is a gown that has been debated as to >whether the red in a gown in an of itself or a red panel with red gores. The two "Birth of the Virgin" ladies have decoration on the outside of their sleeves. Referring back to a previous discussion, could these be covering seams? The one on the far left appears to have a seam, but it could be the way the decoration is painted. Great images De - thanks Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 07:40:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37BeC8R019084 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:40:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37Bd0LV021427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 05:39:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37BclqB007330; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 05:38:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37BcckV007190 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 05:38:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id ABB7FED00B6; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 07:38:31 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.119 ([209.131.81.119] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 7 Apr 05 11:38:30 -0000 Message-ID: <006401c53b66$8d890f80$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras> <4250A2B5.2070707@lavoltapress.com> <003101c5390e$b3b16540$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> <42540FB1.4050000@lavoltapress.com> <002301c53ae8$d2ee8d80$775183d1@rmitchellras><4.3.1.2.20050406141603.025c03f0@mail.frys.com> <4254B9DD.4000000@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:40:07 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah Kitty! You saw in the "Life of..." what I was thinking of...a gentle fun poking at an improbable tale from a pre history era. And it was I and not Kayta, who started this bent. I earlier suggested that this tale smacks of the fantasy that the "Emperor's New Clothes" has, to me. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A silk garment filched by a monk? > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > >> I have no intention of publishing St. Martin's story; this material > >> has already been published as part of a hagiography. I'm an atheist > >> besides. I'm just wondering about the mystery garment. > > > > > >>> Fran, I love this. Do you have an illustrator in mind? Great > >>> children's > >>> book!! > >> > > > > I don't think this is Fantasy enough to sell as a children's book, > > besides being too Catholic to keep the objectionable sort of Fundies > > happy. It's a good enough story for me, complete with a historical > > garment central to the plot, but not, I think, the kind of thing most > > modern children would like. > > > unless you could come up with some sort of way cool, si-fi or fantasy > magic ending as to what happened and what the garment was. go off into > fiction rather. Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 09:30:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37DUOTZ019693 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:30:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37DT5LV029598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37DSwHS081487; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:28:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com (mailout06.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.19]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37DSsmL081447 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:28:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dgandh@t-online.de) Received: from fwd23.aul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1DJX42-00048I-01; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 15:28:54 +0200 Received: from gandolf (Z4n7oZZToenxeSayDQi46Pm3GEdYKJ9qHRjrujXKPIzvJd4BTQrLUV@[217.84.40.105]) by fwd23.sul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1DJX3v-1QZfjE0; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:28:47 +0200 From: "dgandh" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:28:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <006401c53b66$8d890f80$775183d1@rmitchellras> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcU7ZwrfZ18Xkn6iRQWV1Na/bzt9fAADim/g Message-ID: <1DJX3v-1QZfjE0@fwd23.sul.t-online.de> X-ID: Z4n7oZZToenxeSayDQi46Pm3GEdYKJ9qHRjrujXKPIzvJd4BTQrLUV X-TOI-MSGID: f8a98767-bd7c-42f0-bb85-b8702a53bd25 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been thinking about buying a sewing machine to do the seems and bits that you don't see in things like shirts, slops and sailors jackets. Most of what I would be sewing will be linen (a lot of the old handwoven stuff) thick wools and maybe silk now and again. I am leaning towards an older Pfaff 230 or 260 machine for around $100 (or 55 Pounds sterling, 60 Euros whatever) Or would my money be better spent on a newer Pfaff from the hobby line $300 (or other suggestion?) I don't really need all the fancy heart shaped stitches and stuff. Greg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 09:51:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37DpJ7g019809 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:51:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37Do7LV001373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:50:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37Do0xt097055; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:50:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37DnjeM096856 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:49:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.145.43297f4f (15862) for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mblk-d20 (mblk-d20.mblk.aol.com [205.188.212.204]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v104.18) with ESMTP id MAILINID61-3df642553a661f1; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:49:26 -0400 Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:49:26 -0400 From: chindora@aol.com Message-Id: <8C7098FBFAA29D8-BB0-1103D@mblk-d20.sysops.aol.com> Received: from 68.153.231.89 by mblk-d20.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.204) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:49:26 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <1DJX3v-1QZfjE0@fwd23.sul.t-online.de> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.0.0.11984 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.212.204 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Greg :) I believe that you would be well served in purchasing an older model machine that is of good quality. You will make out a lot better than buying a newer model that has a lot more plastic in it, in my opinion. I have an Elna that I purchased 21 years ago, and I would not trade it for anything. Other than occasional trips to the shop for a lube job and thorough cleaning, I have never had any problems with it and the little jewel sews like a charm. We have been through leather, denim, silk chiffon and entirely too much satin, and it has never missed a stitch. :) ~Kimberley -----Original Message----- From: dgandh To: 'Historical Costume' Sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:28:46 +0200 Subject: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... I have been thinking about buying a sewing machine to do the seems and bits that you don't see in things like shirts, slops and sailors jackets. Most of what I would be sewing will be linen (a lot of the old handwoven stuff) thick wools and maybe silk now and again. I am leaning towards an older Pfaff 230 or 260 machine for around $100 (or 55 Pounds sterling, 60 Euros whatever) Or would my money be better spent on a newer Pfaff from the hobby line $300 (or other suggestion?) I don't really need all the fancy heart shaped stitches and stuff. Greg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 09:52:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37DqIGW019815 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:52:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37DotLn001459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:50:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37Deoat090208; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:40:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j37Den4k090095 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:40:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2005040709404021917 for ; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:40:40 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id j37Deb0j017024 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:40:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <025201c53b77$6eaee5b0$4aa810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:40:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Painted floor cloths 1880's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know this is not costume, but you folks are so knowledgeable I thought someone would know where to point me. I'm looking for images of what would have been painted on floors or oilcloth or canvas around the 1880's. Thanks in advance. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 09:53:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37Drmfq019826 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:53:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37DqqLV001621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:52:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37DqpLQ099246; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:52:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j37DqfJi099069 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:52:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2005040709523422013 for ; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:52:34 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id j37DqW0j017867 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <026c01c53b79$18a930b0$4aa810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6667> <4.3.1.2.20050406143620.025cb858@mail.frys.com> <039e01c53afe$a9587ce0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooks and eyes Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:52:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I've also seen pictures (or maybe just diagrams? can't remember clearly; > allergies or possibly a cold have destroyed my brain) of extant Roman > 'hooks > and eyes' which to me, frankly didn't look too much like hooks > and eyes. Basically, though I think there's some sort of armorial > fastening that works on the hook-and-eye principle that does go back much > further. The Art Museum at Princeton University has some of these. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 09:58:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37DwpVi019848 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:58:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37DtqLV001839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37Dtnd3001622; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:55:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37Dtl1u001592 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:55:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m208.in-tch.com [216.166.191.208]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j37Dpho13384 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:51:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42553D29.4070107@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:01:13 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Yellow Submarine was: medieval gown References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, no mpg's in this house. Just a few lp's and waaay too many cd's. Obligatory Costume Content: I had the song running through my head while I was looking at my book on Viking Age Headcoverings from Dublin....Geez, but there's some interesting weaving going on with them. I definitely need to be practicing my spinning more, if I intend to spin yarn for making a few.....average thread diameter on one piece was 0.15 mm! --sue Althea Turner wrote: > Hi all, > My daughter wants to sing the yellow Submarine in a talent contest at > school. I have been trying to find it on line at one of the legal > download sites. I will admit that I haven't done an exhaustive search. > Does anyone by any chance have an mpg of this song? Thanks! And now > back to your regularly schedule fascinating talk of textiles n'stuff... > > Althea > > On Wednesday, April 6, 2005, at 09:11 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >> In the town >> where I was born >> lived a man >> who sailed to sea.... >> --sue, who actually has "Yellow Submarine" on LP (oh good lord, >> I've had that album for 30 years!) >> >> Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: >> >>>> --Robin >>>> suddenly flashing on the sea of freestanding holes in "Yellow >>>> Submarine" >>>> >>> Oh great. Now THAT will be stuck in my head all night!! >>> Though there are worse things than the Beatles.. >>> Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 10:02:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37E29xT019880 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:02:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37E18LV002321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:01:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37E15tT005892; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:01:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37E13cX005862 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:01:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m208.in-tch.com [216.166.191.208]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j37Duwo15300 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:06:28 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw it in '75. Was that when the movie actually came out? That was the summer we went back east for a family reunion, and the airlines lost our luggage AND went on strike....Rhode Island in August with only your "plane clothes" is *icky!* (reference to heat and humidity, only ;o) --sue Robin Netherton wrote: > On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > >>In the town >>where I was born >>lived a man >>who sailed to sea.... >>--sue, who actually has "Yellow Submarine" on LP (oh good lord, I've >>had that album for 30 years!) > > > Saw the movie in its first release. > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 10:53:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37ErAOA020271 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:53:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37Eq3LV007033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37EpoUb047001; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:51:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37Epkeh046935 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:51:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) Received: from [66.43.209.42] (HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.9) with SMTP id 730832142 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:51:44 -0500 Message-ID: <00fa01c53b81$51a95900$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:51:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] medieval tapestries X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050411fa_fact This is a facinating article. My apologies if it's been posted already. It's very interesting just on it's own, but the implications for costumers might come about if/when the photos are published. The gist of the article is that during restoration, the back side of the Unicorn tapestries was revealed, disclosing much more vivid colors than on the front. Awareness of these un-faded colors would be helpful in accurate costume color choices. (Why this came as a surprise to anyone is a mystery to me.) But don't read it just for the textile content--it's really interesting how they are using math and computing to do work like this. Denise in Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 11:23:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37FNGGO020456 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:23:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37FH4LV009518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37FGuSk068659; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:16:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j37FGj3m068369 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:16:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2005 15:16:34 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050407160707.014c6d40@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:16:43 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries In-Reply-To: <00fa01c53b81$51a95900$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:51 07/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: >http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050411fa_fact > > >This is a facinating article. My apologies if it's been posted already. >It's very interesting just on it's own, but the implications for costumers >might come about if/when the photos are published. > >The gist of the article is that during restoration, the back side of the >Unicorn tapestries was revealed, disclosing much more vivid colors than on >the front. Awareness of these un-faded colors would be helpful in >accurate costume color choices. (Why this came as a surprise to anyone is >a mystery to me.) > >But don't read it just for the textile content--it's really interesting >how they are using math and computing to do work like this. > >Denise in Iowa Thank you for that - quite fascinating. In Angers, France there are maybe 40 huge tapestries on display in a vast specially built room. They are 13th century, from what I remember. Some of them have wooden battens, and are on huge hinges at the top, so you can swing them a small way out from the wall and look at the backs. The backs are way more vivid than the fronts, and are fascinating to look at. You can see exactly how the weave is done as they are not behind glass. It does surprise me that the team didn't expect the backs to be brighter - or maybe that was a bit of journalistic licence? I was told by the staff at the V. and A. years ago that the Hunting Tapestries had faded, and have assumed ever since that *all* tapestries fade. In many French "Stately homes" or chateaux, there are Gobelin tapestries from many periods hung by windows, in the open air, with no protection, and most of the leaves have turned blue because of exposure. I was horrified! Suzi . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 12:33:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37GX00u020835 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:33:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37GUlLV019085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:30:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37GUWcJ035423; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:30:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37GULR3035267 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:30:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A67E39254 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:30:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p184.socket.net [64.85.214.186]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 154B8C435 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:30:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns and sleeve seams? Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:30:21 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050407084728.015ac190@127.0.0.1> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have always assume that the decorative bands were reinforcing seams but I could be wrong in the assumption. :\ De -----Original Message----- The two "Birth of the Virgin" ladies have decoration on the outside of their sleeves. Referring back to a previous discussion, could these be covering seams? The one on the far left appears to have a seam, but it could be the way the decoration is painted. Great images De - thanks Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 12:36:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37GaFVE020858 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:36:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37GZ8LV019607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:35:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37GYsB2039413; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:35:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37GYdd6039171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:34:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j37GSKmT029361 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:28:21 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4255611B.4060505@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:34:35 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> <00fa01c53b81$51a95900$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> In-Reply-To: <00fa01c53b81$51a95900$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Land of Oz wrote: > http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050411fa_fact Oh, yeah, that's a great article! Another list I'm on was discussing the tapestry thing, and fading; here's an image from the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries showing front and back sides: http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/tapestry_comparison.jpg -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 13:45:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37HjUaB021949 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:45:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37HfcLV028410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37HfHKJ001262; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:41:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37HfAgw001077 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:41:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24316 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:55:52 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:55:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown In-Reply-To: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Sue Clemenger wrote: > I saw it in '75. Was that when the movie actually came out? It came out in 1968. I remember my teenage brother arguing that he shouldn't have to be dragged with the family to see a cartoon. My parents prevailed, and he was later glad of that. Costume content: At the Chicago CostumeCon a couple of years ago, a group entry in the costume contest (from some St. Louis costumers, possibly one or more on this list) was "Dr. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band." All the close details on the suits were soda-related (e.g. the epaulets were shaped like soda can pull-tabs). At the end of their "performance," they turned around and you saw the logos for Orange Crush, Dr. Pepper, 7-Up, and something else I forget, and you realized that each out fit was the correct matching color. Even the instruments were costume props, and beautifully made. I think styles more than 30 years old count as "historic" ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 15:30:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37JUs3W022840 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:30:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37JTRLV011010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:29:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37JTCx8097217; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:29:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37JT9iJ097099 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:29:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from osmanthus@comcast.net) Received: from AmyPC (c-24-218-29-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.29.62]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20050407192903013000ob5ke>; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:29:03 +0000 Message-ID: <002501c53ba8$0f7a6070$6401a8c0@AmyPC> From: "Amy Butler Greenfield" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050407160707.014c6d40@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:29:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fascinating New Yorker article! Suzi wrote: > It does surprise me that the team didn't expect the backs to be brighter I understand what you mean, Suzi. And yet I, too, have been surprised by how bright traditional dyes can be. When I did some dyeing experiments with cochineal on silk (roughly following some 17th-century formulas) I expected to get a fairly bright red. But the red I actually got was much more vivid than I could have imagined -- almost a neon red. I finally understood why observers said that the dye "dazzled the eye." If anyone wants to see photos of my dyeing results, you can find them here: http://www.amybutlergreenfield.com/Amusements_Dyeing.html Amy Amy Butler Greenfield cochineal@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 15:38:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37Jcgpk022998 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:38:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37JbgLV012226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:37:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37Jbdun005078; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:37:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37JbWKt004933 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:37:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25353 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:52:18 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:52:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries In-Reply-To: <002501c53ba8$0f7a6070$6401a8c0@AmyPC> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Amy Butler Greenfield wrote: > Fascinating New Yorker article! Yes indeed, and for anyone interested in computers, photography, and/or botany as well as medieval art or weaving. I loved the description about the thread loops breathing and moving. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 17:13:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37LDTB2023806 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:13:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37KvoLV023191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:57:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37KvbfD078765; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:57:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (m02.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j37KvUbi078547 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:57:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from llwatts@juno.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m02.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBFMHV6AJH4KLJ for (sender ); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:56:28 -0700 (PST) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: WJAeLflMin2r+7mN51BJ7h4ug5u9aK49xmPPx3JPdutcslY4URpVFQ== Received: (from llwatts@juno.com) by m02.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KPZV8P79; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:56:01 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:55:37 -0500 Message-ID: <20050407.155538.-300101.3.LLWatts@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,12-13 From: Leah L Watts X-ContentStamp: 4:6:2472467804 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Shrinkage question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, I've almost finished a mockup of my summer project (the Folkwear Beach Pajamas pattern), and have figured out how much to enlarge the pattern. I'm planning to order silk noil for the "serious" outfit. (Thread detour: it looks like the Bonnie's Bailiwick site is going through a complete redo. Anyone heard if their prices/selection has changed? End thread detour.) I'm also planning to prewash; even though I work for a dry cleaners and would get 50% off cleaning it, the stains I expect to pick up wearing this to a gaming convention would all be water-based, so perc wouldn't be the best cleaning choice. I've never worked with silk noil before, though. How much shrinkage should I allow for when I place the order? Would an extra yard be enough? Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 17:16:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37LGwLn023834 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:16:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37LFrLV025154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37LFoHp094824; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:15:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37LFhwE094696 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:15:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LMUGZDZ1W0IU41BY@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:15:35 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LMUGZDQC5EIXTW1J@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:15:35 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:16:10 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown In-reply-to: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4255A31A.1060602@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yup... actually, when I fly long-haul, I usually have at lest a partial change of clothes in my hand luggage (ie clean shoes, underwear and socks). > I saw it in '75. Was that when the movie actually came out? That was > the summer we went back east for a family reunion, and the airlines > lost our luggage AND went on strike....Rhode Island in August with > only your "plane clothes" is *icky!* (reference to heat and humidity, > only ;o) > --sue -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 17:18:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37LIwTk023844 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:18:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37LHlLV025372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:17:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37LHkFZ096492; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:17:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37LHg1W096405 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:17:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LMUH1YFVCGIXTW34@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:17:39 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LMUH1Y549GIXTW1J@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:17:39 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:18:14 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shrinkage question In-reply-to: <20050407.155538.-300101.3.LLWatts@juno.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4255A396.3070003@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050407.155538.-300101.3.LLWatts@juno.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Leah L Watts wrote: >OK, I've almost finished a mockup of my summer project (the Folkwear >Beach Pajamas pattern), and have figured out how much to enlarge the >pattern. > >I'm planning to order silk noil for the "serious" outfit. (Thread >detour: it looks like the Bonnie's Bailiwick site is going through a >complete redo. Anyone heard if their prices/selection has changed? End >thread detour.) I'm also planning to prewash; even though I work for a >dry cleaners and would get 50% off cleaning it, the stains I expect to >pick up wearing this to a gaming convention would all be water-based, so >perc wouldn't be the best cleaning choice. I've never worked with silk >noil before, though. How much shrinkage should I allow for when I place >the order? Would an extra yard be enough? > > > When I've made things from noil and washed them, they haven't actually shurunk a hell of a lot, but it's probably best to assume 10% or so, and order the extra yard. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 17:38:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37LctXM024186 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:38:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37LbXLV027389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:37:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37LbSHP013297; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:37:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37LbM2S013222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:37:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-239.sonic.net [209.148.113.239]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37LbLqj013830 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:37:21 -0700 Message-ID: <4255A808.1000203@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:37:12 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dyeing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm about to dye and decorate some T-shirts and other things for spring. I bought some T-shirts at Dharma Trading, as well as the necessary chemicals. Also some copier transfer paper so I can copy some antique fashion plates onto them. However, I'd like to see some more styles of knit tops suitable for dyeing. Does anyone know any other companies that sell clothing "blanks"? I saw some lingerie at the Thai Silks stie, but most of it is on backorder. BTW, has anyone ever tried ombre dyeing by spraying the dye onto the item? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 17:39:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37Ld70G024191 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:39:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37LbYLV027390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:37:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37LbRFm013281; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:37:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37LbM3n013185 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:37:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LMUHQAFGSGIU41BY@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:37:16 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LMUHQA78S4IXTW1J@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:37:16 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:37:51 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown In-reply-to: <4255A31A.1060602@paradise.net.nz> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4255A82F.2020409@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> <4255A31A.1060602@paradise.net.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Adele de Maisieres wrote: Hrm... that was a freudian slip... I meant to say "clean shirt", but I was thinking about how las time I flew into S. Francisco my feet had swelled to the size of footballs and I could barely walk to the domestic terminal... > Yup... actually, when I fly long-haul, I usually have at lest a > partial change of clothes in my hand luggage (ie clean shoes, > underwear and socks). > >> I saw it in '75. Was that when the movie actually came out? That was >> the summer we went back east for a family reunion, and the airlines >> lost our luggage AND went on strike....Rhode Island in August with >> only your "plane clothes" is *icky!* (reference to heat and humidity, >> only ;o) >> --sue > > > > -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 18:04:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37M4vWB024419 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:04:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37M0XLV029844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:00:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37M0OXu033193; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:00:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37M0JPr033035 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:00:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IEL00IFPJSGDP@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 18:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 18:00:52 -0400 From: J Schueller In-reply-to: <4255A82F.2020409@paradise.net.nz> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4255AD94.5020609@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> <4255A31A.1060602@paradise.net.nz> <4255A82F.2020409@paradise.net.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Agnes Sorel X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here is an intresting news story about Agnes Sorel. it turns out that she was recently unearthed and had some chemical analysis was done on her. But the articule does not mention the m ost important part---which is of course "did they find any fabric on her"? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 18:36:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37MaMWZ024567 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:36:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37MLeLV002130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37MLYeP051247; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:21:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav13.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37MLT4f051104 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:21:22 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by BAY106-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:21:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050407.155538.-300101.3.LLWatts@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shrinkage question Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:21:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2005 22:21:22.0291 (UTC) FILETIME=[20F98430:01C53BC0] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > How much shrinkage should I allow for when I place > the order? Would an extra yard be enough? It varies depending on the batches. But mine shrank about what I'd expect cotton to shrink. You were thinking a yard over how much? Unless you're going to buy over 10 yards, I think one extra yard would be enough. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 18:39:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37MdMej024576 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:39:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37McBLV003891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37Mc0lq065087; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:38:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37MbvPV064919 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:37:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19433 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:37:50 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Martha McCain Patterns Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:37:50 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Martha McCain Patterns Thread-Index: AcU6KfBIxxq6r/1qRJiKH5Gl7/+HzQBlZdJw From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j37MbvPV064919 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Martha for the news on the upcoming 19th century bodices and sleeve variation patterns. I know it is a lot of work to research costumes and make patterns--I love to do the research, but pattern-making is not my forte, even for dolls. And trying to keep things accurate in cut while keeping the home sewer and mass-market pattern companies happy, must be, at the very least, difficult The new Butterick "Early Summer" pattern catalog is out and there are two new "historic" patterns. I don't know if I wrote down the numbers accurately, but 4539 is for a man's 17th century king's musketeer outfit and the other 4540 is a woman's Victorian gown(Civil War era)The bodice is lined, interlined and boned, but I don't know how accurate the cut is and the envelope illustration seems to have done some front skirt applied trim and frankly too-modern looking drapery fringe around the middle of the upper arm sleeves that looks awkward to my eyes. Any one with more expertise with 1850-1860's women's dress want to have a look at this pattern and comment? And I won't even say how appalling I found Butterick's French court lady of the 18th century(Marie Antoinette) pattern. At first glimpse, my reaction was "Oh, how pretty" but it seems to be cut for the modern sewer, even though there is a pattern for a pretty accurate set of stays and pocket hoops. The neckline and sleeves are just all wrong, but a $1.99 sale would, I suppose make it worth it to use with Arnold, Waugh, or Hunnisett as a guide to recut sleeves, neckline and seams to a more accurate line. I have done this--using two or even three historic mass-market patterns bought super-cheap, altering the pieces I'm using to fit me, and then recutting the pieces and adding sew-in interfacing when needed, to get a pattern I want. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 19:38:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j37Nc9eU024826 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:38:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j37NZmLV010814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:35:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37NZYYc011915; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:35:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37NZUAb011812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:35:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0531.floodcity.net ([198.93.213.23]:1149 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1DJgWy-00070x-DR for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 19:35:25 -0400 Message-ID: <4255C3BD.7060101@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 19:35:25 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> <4255A31A.1060602@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4255A31A.1060602@paradise.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A clean blouse or shirt would be a blessing. you can wear just about any pair of pants or skirt for more than one day, but most blouses need washed especially in Summer. Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Yup... actually, when I fly long-haul, I usually have at lest a > partial change of clothes in my hand luggage (ie clean shoes, > underwear and socks). > >> I saw it in '75. Was that when the movie actually came out? That was >> the summer we went back east for a family reunion, and the airlines >> lost our luggage AND went on strike....Rhode Island in August with >> only your "plane clothes" is *icky!* (reference to heat and humidity, >> only ;o) >> --sue > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 20:21:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j380LuVu025086 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 20:21:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j380KXLV014222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:20:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j380KS5W042671; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:20:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.183]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j380JBlW041797 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:19:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DJhDK-0003rj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 17:19:11 -0700 Message-ID: <4255CDFF.80306@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 17:19:11 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Agnes Sorel References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> <4255A31A.1060602@paradise.net.nz> <4255A82F.2020409@paradise.net.nz> <4255AD94.5020609@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <4255AD94.5020609@optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did you mean this one? http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1377951/posts Surely we should ask! J Schueller wrote: > Here is an intresting news story about Agnes Sorel. it turns out > that she was recently unearthed and had some chemical analysis was > done on her. But the articule does not mention the m ost important > part---which is of course "did they find any fabric on her"? > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 20:42:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j380g7T6025178 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 20:42:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j380adLV015493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j380aSFN053537; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:36:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j380aPLx053483 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:36:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m90.in-tch.com [216.166.191.90]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j380WLo03012 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:32:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4255D351.6050603@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 18:41:53 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> <00fa01c53b81$51a95900$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> <4255611B.4060505@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <4255611B.4060505@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Those are some pretty cool greens! Woot! --sue, who likes green.... Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Land of Oz wrote: > >> http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050411fa_fact > > > Oh, yeah, that's a great article! > > Another list I'm on was discussing the tapestry thing, and fading; > here's an image from the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries showing front and > back sides: > > http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/tapestry_comparison.jpg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 20:44:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j380iIIK025187 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 20:44:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j380hELV016025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:43:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j380h9ij057625; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:43:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j380h6Yn057591 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:43:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m90.in-tch.com [216.166.191.90]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j380d2o04447 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4255D4E1.9090001@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 18:48:33 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050407160707.014c6d40@127.0.0.1> <002501c53ba8$0f7a6070$6401a8c0@AmyPC> In-Reply-To: <002501c53ba8$0f7a6070$6401a8c0@AmyPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've gotten lovely reds and pinks with madder, and the most amazing bright, tangerine orange! (on wool...less impressive on silk) I'm thinking of using the orange wool to knit myself some 16th c stockings..... --sue Amy Butler Greenfield wrote: > Fascinating New Yorker article! > > Suzi wrote: > >> It does surprise me that the team didn't expect the backs to be brighter > > > I understand what you mean, Suzi. And yet I, too, have been surprised > by how bright traditional dyes can be. When I did some dyeing > experiments with cochineal on silk (roughly following some 17th-century > formulas) I expected to get a fairly bright red. But the red I actually > got was much more vivid than I could have imagined -- almost a neon > red. I finally understood why observers said that the dye "dazzled the > eye." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 21:06:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38163cq025263 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 21:06:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38150LV017517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3814sud072082; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:04:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3814mDa071945 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:04:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IEL00LNGSBTC4@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 21:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 21:05:18 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] Agnes Sorel In-reply-to: <4255CDFF.80306@earthlink.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4255D8CE.50102@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> <4255A31A.1060602@paradise.net.nz> <4255A82F.2020409@paradise.net.nz> <4255AD94.5020609@optonline.net> <4255CDFF.80306@earthlink.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/815/Thu Apr 7 13:37:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/815/Thu Apr 7 13:37:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OOPS! I guess I forgot to add the the url i guess. sorry. That is indeed the story, though this was the line I was looking at... http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=14&click_id=117&art_id=qw1112613663615F652 Wicked Frau wrote: > Did you mean this one? > > http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1377951/posts Surely we should ask! > > J Schueller wrote: > >> Here is an intresting news story about Agnes Sorel. it turns out >> that she was recently unearthed and had some chemical analysis was >> done on her. But the articule does not mention the m ost important >> part---which is of course "did they find any fabric on her"? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 7 23:36:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j383a6dk025809 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:36:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j383YnLV027058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 21:34:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j383YYBT068202; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 21:34:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j383YWrk068165 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 21:34:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DJkGN-0004AO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:34:31 -0700 Message-ID: <4255FBC7.3040400@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:34:31 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... References: <8C7098FBFAA29D8-BB0-1103D@mblk-d20.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C7098FBFAA29D8-BB0-1103D@mblk-d20.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I second Kimberly's opinion. I have a fancy Viking that I hate. I love my 1969ish Kenmore and my two very old singers. They sew beutifully. The latter two sew are able to sew such tiny little stitches, that I needn't back stitch to secure a seam....love that! Sg chindora@aol.com wrote: > Hi Greg :) > >I believe that you would be well served in purchasing an older model machine that is of good quality. You will make out a lot better than buying a newer model that has a lot more plastic in it, in my opinion. I have an Elna that I purchased 21 years ago, and I would not trade it for anything. Other than occasional trips to the shop for a lube job and thorough cleaning, I have never had any problems with it and the little jewel sews like a charm. We have been through leather, denim, silk chiffon and entirely too much satin, and it has never missed a stitch. > >:) >~Kimberley > >-----Original Message----- >From: dgandh >To: 'Historical Costume' >Sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:28:46 +0200 >Subject: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... > > >I have been thinking about buying a sewing machine to do the seems and bits >that you don't see in things like shirts, slops and sailors jackets. > >Most of what I would be sewing will be linen (a lot of the old handwoven >stuff) thick wools and maybe silk now and again. > >I am leaning towards an older Pfaff 230 or 260 machine for around $100 (or >55 Pounds sterling, 60 Euros whatever) > >Or would my money be better spent on a newer Pfaff from the hobby line $300 >(or other suggestion?) > >I don't really need all the fancy heart shaped stitches and stuff. > >Greg > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 01:34:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j385YlY1026290 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 01:34:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j385XaLV003984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j385XSiL038203; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:33:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41903.mail.yahoo.com (web41903.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.154]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j385XPhD038129 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:33:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 72496 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2005 05:33:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=NP1Xqb92cRf0EFIdARq+osTW+Dy9zS7qVWTqbnjs+szs9JyUoDV127Te7Zfh2EW1fBv/UU4NkH1qN3mn1RMS3KWYK+NEIbGblmeE9vUWM2om0nI3iBIq4CbbzWEXZnjkyS2SsdTU2+k25tA/xEDb1pdBGooRdmqgRjgfmaQiz4I= ; Message-ID: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.134] by web41903.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:33:20 PDT Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:33:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Eyelets vs. grommets and pet peeves..... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Yup sounds like a failure to Communicate to me. How I know the terms ...... Grommets are metal ringsFind these in tandy leather catalogs of various sizes or Great Big ones near Eyelets in Fabric stores like Joannes, Fields Fabrics, Habdcock Fabrics, Fabricland...... usually the two pieces that ya bang with a mallet can be used in Various projects From Leather to Cotton and several ladies from my former group use them in their 11th(?) Century Coatehardies and Kirtles (Laces in the back not front of garment....From what I have been told anyway. Eyelets are a weaker version of these sold in Fabric Stores. Split really easily when hit witha mallet They are called Eyelets.... many colors and usually small sizes... they can also be used in Scrapbooking.. or at least I have seen them also sold in that section of craft stores. like Michaels. I think my deifinitions are more modern use for these Items.... Kirtles are also some Kind of Elizabethan Garment, Unudergarment of some kind as well I think...I have hears mentioned in Reference to elizabethan here a while back..... Any elizabethan ladies care to comment on that ??? did I get the Term right... So Cynthia did I confuse you even more?????? I am glad you asked, I could not stamd being yelled at for being a NOVICE and NOT an experienced sewer anymore and the pet peeves.... I am a novice about this costiiming stuff Most of my 10 years in SCa have been spent doing A& S stuff like Beading, Wirework, Brewing, Singing, Embroidery, and taching these carious thing s I know to others. Its time I move onto something different. Hence why I am here! AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so cliquey with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right now???? It appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some of the old guard. Just asking! ! Satine --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 02:04:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3864bWT027378 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 02:04:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3861RLV005148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:01:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3861Nt5053209; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:01:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41908.mail.yahoo.com (web41908.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3861LM7053148 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:01:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 78069 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2005 06:01:16 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=I4rGvO6P/QbwT5gg3CbtjZL7iAR7HKdbIbayKbTUDdoQ/bK4aoURZetr+Pwn2g9tneltm5XQezGZBTCGoFevRlPDnv95FMXMQMfhBII3T7nlj7z3c9zaspQU0/d9hJ2D6xU3raq5REU0Qrj9Nis7bN1vQfComBNaDDub7jPMWeE= ; Message-ID: <20050408060116.78067.qmail@web41908.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.134] by web41908.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 23:01:16 PDT Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:01:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shrinkage question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What was labelled her in windsor as silk noile we bought for our ladies in waiting Viking apron dresses Label said it was 100% silk We machine washed it. Pilled not too badly and was kind of stretchy.. Not severely but a little.. Extremely comfortable to wear.. However I do know that sometimes items are labeled differently on both sides of the Border....Does anyone else want to comment on this???? what is it like on the US side at Fabric stores????? I have never bought it stateside. only here in Canada. Thanks Satine Leah L Watts wrote: OK, I've almost finished a mockup of my summer project (the Folkwear Beach Pajamas pattern), and have figured out how much to enlarge the pattern. I'm planning to order silk noil for the "serious" outfit. (Thread detour: it looks like the Bonnie's Bailiwick site is going through a complete redo. Anyone heard if their prices/selection has changed? End thread detour.) I'm also planning to prewash; even though I work for a dry cleaners and would get 50% off cleaning it, the stains I expect to pick up wearing this to a gaming convention would all be water-based, so perc wouldn't be the best cleaning choice. I've never worked with silk noil before, though. How much shrinkage should I allow for when I place the order? Would an extra yard be enough? Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 02:30:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j386UfVG001142 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 02:30:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j386TbLV006504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:29:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j386TVuB068548; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:29:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j386TSET068483 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:29:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005040806292301200rmc6ue>; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 06:29:23 +0000 Message-ID: <004701c53c04$4fb93240$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007201c5395b$52488a20$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67><007601c5395c$2fbe1cd0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <003a01c539dd$7d14d4c0$685183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] vestment question(s) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 02:29:26 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen, I am glad you enjoyed the Catholic Encyclopedia. I reference it a lot and use it for personal use. I have not checked to see who publishes it, but it is a wonderful online resource. I wanted to start putting my first communion photo collection online this year for the Easter season. Doesn't look like it will happen this year since I am recovering from my slipped disks. I look forward to seeing your first communion photo collection too! We, too, love the internet for reference material. That's why I start my website. I got tired of running all over town to libraries with someone taking me into a vault to read antique costume books or magazine. The library workers would put on white gloves and turn the publication pages for me. No pencils or notebooks were allowed in the vaults. Gees, my memory isn't that good, not even ten years ago! I thought there had to be an easier way to have access to these materials. The first five years of my business I spent every penny I made, purchasing books, magazines, and photographs to put in my online Library. I didn't want others to go to such lengths as you and I did by running all over the place to study fashion history. Hard to believe that June 30 is my Library's ninth anniversary on the web. BTW, last night we started putting online in our Library your 1911 Women and Labor book. Nikki, our typist for the book, is really enjoying reading the book as she types. Your book comes to life again today! Many thanks to you for sharing. Previously, only a few people could read the book. Now thousands will be able to learn from it. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 04:11:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j388BJaF023210 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 04:11:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3889wLV011335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 02:09:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3889lbE025656; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 02:09:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.160]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3889i9i025583 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 02:09:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from Webshield (unknown [165.248.247.154]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E2B23F6D for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:09:24 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by Webshield (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1112947763692; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:09:23 -1000 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:09:23 -1000 (HST) From: lisa X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries In-Reply-To: <00fa01c53b81$51a95900$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> Message-ID: References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> <00fa01c53b81$51a95900$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050411fa_fact > > The gist of the article is that during restoration, the back side of the > Unicorn tapestries was revealed, disclosing much more vivid colors than on > the front. Awareness of these un-faded colors would be helpful in accurate > costume color choices. (Why this came as a surprise to anyone is a mystery > to me.) I have a book that shows a couple of photos of the back of a small part. Unfortunately, those pictures are in black and white and the text doesn't give any details about the conservation work done prior to that time. However, the book was copyrighted by the Met in 1974 so I agree with you that it's a bit puzzling that they were surprised, since the backs have been seen by previous museum people within the last 30 years or so. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 06:22:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38AMKj1027576 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 06:22:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38ALKLV017145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 04:21:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38ALDEa095709; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 04:21:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38ALAWB095646 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 04:21:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from cottontail.webwarren.com (pcp09760503pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.38.25.187]) by webwarren.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j38A9lT08152 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 06:09:47 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050408061721.063420d0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 06:21:03 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re: medieval tapestries X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The differences in colors due to fading were remarked on at length, along with other details about tapestry-making, in Thomas P. Campbell's _Tapestry in the Renaissance: Art and Magnificence (collection catalogue of the exhibit showing March 12 - June 19, 2002)_ , published by The Metropolitan Museum of Art/Yale University Press, New York, 2002 ISBN 0-300-09370-5. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 06:35:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38AZTOt027967 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 06:35:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38AYZLV017622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 04:34:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38AYTRm002900; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 04:34:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38AYRGP002824 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 04:34:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (220-253-120-243.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.120.243]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 5612671AE8 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:34:20 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <000801c53c26$69686400$f378fddc@chris> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:33:30 +1000 Organization: Australian Costume Supply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Camel suit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At the beginning of the nightly news service, the anchor mentioned that one man had been arrested and another three were being questioned after the theft of a camel suit from luggage at Sydney (Australia) airport. On hearing the headline, I assumed it was some version of suit to match fairly common camel hair coats. Nope. An advertising executive was transporting a camel mascot costume from Sydney to Melbourne and was shocked to look out a window to see someone wearing the costume on the tarmac. It appears that baggage handlers had opened the luggage and helped themselves to a bit of fun. -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 07:52:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38BqsYe028339 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 07:52:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38BpiLV026679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 05:51:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38BpX69045599; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 05:51:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38BpS6d045519 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 05:51:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A03A2550104; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 07:51:22 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.113 ([209.131.81.113] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 8 Apr 05 11:51:21 -0000 Message-ID: <005e01c53c31$836dc380$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007201c5395b$52488a20$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67><007601c5395c$2fbe1cd0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67><003a01c539dd$7d14d4c0$685183d1@rmitchellras> <004701c53c04$4fb93240$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Subject: Re: [h-cost] vestment question(s) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 07:52:58 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You are very welcome for the material I have been able to help put out there. There is another one on somewhat the same subject, "What Can A Woman Do", 1878. This one includes the proverbial "Egg Money". I sometimes think of it as alternatives to Prostitution. OT How to make ends meet... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:29 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] vestment question(s) > Kathleen, > > I am glad you enjoyed the Catholic Encyclopedia. I reference it a lot and > use it for personal use. I have not checked to see who publishes it, but it > is a wonderful online resource. > > I wanted to start putting my first communion photo collection online this > year for the Easter season. Doesn't look like it will happen this year > since I am recovering from my slipped disks. I look forward to seeing your > first communion photo collection too! > > We, too, love the internet for reference material. That's why I start my > website. I got tired of running all over town to libraries with someone > taking me into a vault to read antique costume books or magazine. The > library workers would put on white gloves and turn the publication pages for > me. No pencils or notebooks were allowed in the vaults. Gees, my memory > isn't that good, not even ten years ago! I thought there had to be an > easier way to have access to these materials. > > The first five years of my business I spent every penny I made, purchasing > books, magazines, and photographs to put in my online Library. I didn't > want others to go to such lengths as you and I did by running all over the > place to study fashion history. Hard to believe that June 30 is my > Library's ninth anniversary on the web. > > BTW, last night we started putting online in our Library your 1911 Women and > Labor book. Nikki, our typist for the book, is really enjoying reading the > book as she types. Your book comes to life again today! Many thanks to you > for sharing. Previously, only a few people could read the book. Now > thousands will be able to learn from it. > > Penny Ladnier, owner > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 08:47:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38ClxVu028600 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:47:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38Cl0LV008664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 06:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38CkqXX077194; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 06:46:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j38Ckpur077182 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 06:46:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from unknown (HELO the-new-beast.sbcglobal.net) (justin.barrett@sbcglobal.net@69.149.41.231 with login) by smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2005 12:46:51 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050408073616.04096eb0@mail.justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 07:43:11 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet peeves..... In-Reply-To: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I am a novice about this costiiming stuff Most of my 10 years in SCa have >been spent doing A& S stuff like Beading, Wirework, Brewing, Singing, >Embroidery, and taching these carious thing s I know to others. Its time >I move onto something different. Hence why I am here! > >AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so cliquey >with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right now???? It >appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some of >the old guard. Just asking! >! > Actually, I think that the comments usually come by subject. I usually lurk, and have had some of my questions answered very quickly and sensitively, and others ignored. I think that some questions hit some other people's pet peeves. GRIN One suggestion, if you ask a specific question (ensure that you are as clear as you can be), you should get a great answer, if it's way too general, you'll get either crickets or a request to look at the archives. Genie, who has been on this list for long enough to really love it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 11:36:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38Fa9uR030310 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:36:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38FYgLV023547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38FYO5j094155; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:34:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38FYItX094058 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:34:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id b11so703409rne for ; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 08:34:18 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=VpTWT+ZdfZE2yRNhCe2mwixa4SoQ+bJCnl6/laXrrtYaM7L5mpXAUjfD9rVIhym6g8bv7ITI1nsRVUdRlG5Oq8TOOtx8aWY9YqOAF9YNmO4j9pbcgH88dDCVlvnTpPZEpOy9nk2GVXBFCor5q9BEKuPyDAXDSvUWPr/gUfFR0AE= Received: by 10.38.152.48 with SMTP id z48mr1790868rnd; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 08:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.67.72 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:34:15 -0400 From: Bonnie Booker To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet peeves..... In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050408073616.04096eb0@mail.justinanimator.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050408073616.04096eb0@mail.justinanimator.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > >I am a novice about this costiiming stuff Most of my 10 years in SCa have > >been spent doing A& S stuff like Beading, Wirework, Brewing, Singing, > >Embroidery, and taching these carious thing s I know to others. Its time > >I move onto something different. Hence why I am here! > > > >AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so cliquey > >with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right now???? It > >appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some of > >the old guard. Just asking! I guess I'm one of the "old guard." I have been in the SCA for over 20 years. A lot of people on this list know a lot more than I do about costuming. Yes I'm also a member of the Robin Netherton fan club. I wait to see if someone answers a question. If they ask it a second time because they got no reply, then I will try to answer it. You might also want to try the SCA Garb yahoo group. They answer more basic questions. I ask on this list when I can't find the answer there. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 13:45:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38Hjd48031344 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:45:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38HiQLV007311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:44:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38HiGPP003105; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:44:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50802.mail.yahoo.com (web50802.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.111]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j38Hi0xc002801 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:44:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 415 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2005 17:43:54 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Izz0v01p3G6hvJgRI2nB9zpLRYPZmYjMmZyr5pWez30cgXgUHwBeRNfxCSoKzjxx1vO4C2ro8jhYJJyJBrcpNb+E9xSztWW/19nS3pI6qT19waDEwMwfmCZCRCu5acD6nCBmylT5IxnRXQydLQiL/eFrH8JbvF+G/yPGid9rwW4= ; Message-ID: <20050408174354.413.qmail@web50802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.231.36.11] by web50802.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 10:43:54 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:43:54 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet peeves..... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Geee- I guess that makes me --*really * Old Guard!!! SCA for 33 years---as well as 'Cameo Appearences ' playing with Faire and Friends of the English Regency:) I've delved into a lot of different cultures and time periods---and tried stuff I might not have --often thru the expertise and encouragement of folks on this list(MANY thanks to you all!) and certainly feel like I'm never going to 'learn everything'. But one *should* keep re-inventing oneself, yes??? Albra/ Kathryn Bonnie Booker wrote: > > > >I am a novice about this costiiming stuff Most of my 10 years in SCa have > >been spent doing A& S stuff like Beading, Wirework, Brewing, Singing, > >Embroidery, and taching these carious thing s I know to others. Its time > >I move onto something different. Hence why I am here! > > > >AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so cliquey > >with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right now???? It > >appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some of > >the old guard. Just asking! I guess I'm one of the "old guard." I have been in the SCA for over 20 years. A lot of people on this list know a lot more than I do about costuming. Yes I'm also a member of the Robin Netherton fan club. I wait to see if someone answers a question. If they ask it a second time because they got no reply, then I will try to answer it. You might also want to try the SCA Garb yahoo group. They answer more basic questions. I ask on this list when I can't find the answer there. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 13:52:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38HqUis031382 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:52:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38HpaLV008040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:51:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38Hp7Ie009338; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:51:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38Hp06G009144 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:51:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02638 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:05:48 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:05:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eyelets vs. grommets and pet peeves..... In-Reply-To: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Lady Satine wrote: > AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so cliquey > with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right now???? It > appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some > of the old guard. Just asking! ! I didn't see any cliquishness myself, but then I'm used to the ebb and flow of the list postings. Very general questions can be very hard to answer; many of us have specialties and will generally answer questions only in our "comfort zone." I don't have a whole lot of time for posts, and when I do write, it tends to be on the long side, so I stay out of a lot of topics unless they're in my specialty area and I have something to add that no one else has mentioned. It's also assumed (unless you state otherwise that you have a different goal) that if you ask how something is done, you want to know the historic method. And it's also assumed that you know and are using the correct terms for things unless you indicate you're not sure. It also helps to remember that a large number of people here are not in the SCA, and the list covers all periods, not just medieval. In other words, people will answer based on what they believe your question to be, which many not be what you meant if you didn't provide sufficient detail on your project or if you used terms in a way that aren't generally known. Sometimes we get a question like "Is cotton OK for a gown?" On an SCA-based list, where everyone knows your goals, that might be answerable. Here, if you get anything at all, it will be a bunch of other questions trying to delineate what you need -- what period? what place? what do you mean by gown? how authentic do you want to be? where will the costume be worn? and so on. That's not meant as criticism or crankiness; it's that there's SO many possible answers we can't help you till we know what you want. And truly, if people point you to the archives for something, it's because we've had long and fruitful discussions over the topic. Something like "Are princess seams period?" may sound to you like it could be answered in a word, but it's a surprisingly complicated topic, and people here have written volumes ... and are not particularly eager to hash it all out again. There are some people who don't find this list to their taste because they don't enjoy the complicated answers and broader historical outlook. If that's the case, then you might be happier with one of the two SCA-Garb lists or one of the many period-specific lists. Each serves a different purpose, and not all will be useful to everyone. If you do stay here, though, I can guarantee you'll learn things you won't learn elsewhere. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 14:14:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38IE47w031523 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:14:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38ICrLV010924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:12:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38ICo3D028169; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:12:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38ICj6V028053 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:12:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.172] (p12.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.172]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j38I9sp02791 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:09:54 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <7b7fb154cfff73cb4e671ef4c6439e31@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eyelets vs. grommets and pet peeves..... Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:20:38 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I, for one, am very pleased that so many of you took your time to answer my questions recently about medieval dresses. I don't very often do costumes that have to be terribly historically accurate, since I am primarily a theatrical costume designer, but when I do, it's great to be on this email list. In case anyone is interested my continuing saga with the SCA customer, she has decided now that she needs something less dressy for an upcoming event, so she has chosen McCalls 2806, which you have informed me is Italian renaissance. She is making it out of blue linen and without the gold trim so it doesn't look as formal as it does on the pattern. I realize it's still not that historically accurate but I just want to get a project done for her. We're going to go with hook and eye tape instead of the zipper on the back on the underdress. If anyone cares to provide any other suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them. Sylrog On Apr 8, 2005, at 12:05 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Lady Satine wrote: > I didn't see any cliquishness myself, but then I'm used to the ebb and > flow of the list postings. Very general questions can be very hard to > answer; many of us have specialties and will generally answer questions > only in our "comfort zone." I don't have a whole lot of time for posts, > and when I do write, it tends to be on the long side, so I stay out of > a > lot of topics unless they're in my specialty area and I have something > to > add that no one else has mentioned. > > It's also assumed (unless you state otherwise that you have a different > goal) that if you ask how something is done, you want to know the > historic > method. And it's also assumed that you know and are using the correct > terms for things unless you indicate you're not sure. It also helps to > remember that a large number of people here are not in the SCA, and the > list covers all periods, not just medieval. > > In other words, people will answer based on what they believe your > question to be, which many not be what you meant if you didn't provide > sufficient detail on your project or if you used terms in a way that > aren't generally known. > > Sometimes we get a question like "Is cotton OK for a gown?" On an > SCA-based list, where everyone knows your goals, that might be > answerable. > Here, if you get anything at all, it will be a bunch of other questions > trying to delineate what you need -- what period? what place? what do > you > mean by gown? how authentic do you want to be? where will the costume > be > worn? and so on. That's not meant as criticism or crankiness; it's that > there's SO many possible answers we can't help you till we know what > you > want. > > And truly, if people point you to the archives for something, it's > because > we've had long and fruitful discussions over the topic. Something like > "Are princess seams period?" may sound to you like it could be > answered in > a word, but it's a surprisingly complicated topic, and people here have > written volumes ... and are not particularly eager to hash it all out > again. > > There are some people who don't find this list to their taste because > they > don't enjoy the complicated answers and broader historical outlook. If > that's the case, then you might be happier with one of the two SCA-Garb > lists or one of the many period-specific lists. Each serves a different > purpose, and not all will be useful to everyone. If you do stay here, > though, I can guarantee you'll learn things you won't learn elsewhere. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 15:09:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38J9TKs031984 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:09:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38J81LV016602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38J7Xsh074110; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:07:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41905.mail.yahoo.com (web41905.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j38J7Vft074006 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:07:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 79552 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2005 19:07:26 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=C+85nEX8xBFLx2A8VDm5pBvvllpbLGoc0umEYDHW9tbEU4omIzqVX6z4JhRB1LeutEfjMeuHUt2yGrVapR8RvOYmU36SZ32jDLDyCDXueowVgfWgZ1wHDa9DlgXX8w4sYs+94lvbNRM4rcp3l+rlnJ7isnx1Xknwc5kMfM/MqzI= ; Message-ID: <20050408190726.79550.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.114] by web41905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:07:25 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:07:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet peeves..... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been asking how to get to the archives arround here I am unable to do so as of yet....Would you be able to guide me on how to get to the archives????? I do make and attempt to be specific I just do not know all the Jargin.. I am very willing to learn I want to be good learner...... I do not mean to offend anyone or pick fights that is not my intent not in the least! For I am a novice who has not been arround here long enough to figure people out yet...The bluntness and honesty while good can be a little overwhelming...... that is something I am not used to in the least. In just reading the little I have from being here I have learned a lot..... I do recomend this site to others as well. because I feel all the knowledgable people here are a great resource! Thank you Genie for the insight. I will keep what you said in mind and do my best to be more specific. Satine Genie Barrett wrote: > >I am a novice about this costiiming stuff Most of my 10 years in SCa have >been spent doing A& S stuff like Beading, Wirework, Brewing, Singing, >Embroidery, and taching these carious thing s I know to others. Its time >I move onto something different. Hence why I am here! > >AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so cliquey >with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right now???? It >appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some of >the old guard. Just asking! >! > Actually, I think that the comments usually come by subject. I usually lurk, and have had some of my questions answered very quickly and sensitively, and others ignored. I think that some questions hit some other people's pet peeves. GRIN One suggestion, if you ask a specific question (ensure that you are as clear as you can be), you should get a great answer, if it's way too general, you'll get either crickets or a request to look at the archives. Genie, who has been on this list for long enough to really love it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 15:14:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38JEBNW032031 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:14:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38JCmLV017078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38JCkDv078491; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:12:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41906.mail.yahoo.com (web41906.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j38JCgfW078372 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:12:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 5837 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2005 19:12:36 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=liSHmCDPuEQsaqPYn44BfI4ZtmNv3z8ExzE2dxsmvTR9c2AZ4bEAcp47uPuAcm36slOtxfjy7vN5VZZ5BDzpw85XUCpjLK5Vkf4l7l4mQYNZkrwZuyiaVY1DnalLVdCaFILamuq1SF2/uPrIGv99WfFhJ6vVe3NsbDLqBaJsSBU= ; Message-ID: <20050408191236.5835.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.114] by web41906.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:12:36 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:12:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet peeves..... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Aspasia, Did not know that site existed, When I asked a friennd about elizabethan I was referred here.... and told this is teh best site for help with that subject. I will check them out too Thank you, for the suggestion! Who is Robin Netherton???? Satine --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 15:31:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38JViQe032182 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:31:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38JUNLV019185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:30:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38JUJ35094164; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:30:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38JUEaZ094114 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:30:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B56391DB for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:30:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p587.socket.net [64.85.213.80]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7BA19D3D1 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:30:13 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] pet peeves..... Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:30:12 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well for one this list is not SCA. Reasons for getting the cricket chorus would be because we don't know the answer, don't know the answer and are searching (with the possibility that the info is at another location), we know something but will let someone else who might know more and that might know more person unknowingly is off line for a few days.....etc Sometimes there will be venting and almost always strong opinions on a subject. De -----Original Message----- >I am a novice about this costiiming stuff Most of my 10 years in SCa have > >been spent doing A& S stuff like Beading, Wirework, Brewing, Singing, > >Embroidery, and taching these carious thing s I know to others. Its time > >I move onto something different. Hence why I am here! > > > >AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so cliquey > >with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right now???? It > >appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some of > >the old guard. Just asking! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 15:36:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38JaEFH032204 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:36:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38JYuLV019736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:34:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38JYsSF098285; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:34:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38JYoPk098105 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:34:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 14:34:41 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 14:34:32 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Quick Dyeing question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I need to dye some of those silk scarves from Dharma trading company. Could someone who has done this before drop me an email? I'm wondering if I can just use Rit dye. Thanks, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 15:43:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38Jh9NO032247 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:43:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38JfwLV020770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:41:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38Jfo76004965; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:41:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41902.mail.yahoo.com (web41902.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j38Jfjab004830 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:41:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 56968 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2005 19:41:40 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=AC/FYnUp5C6yqMooOBXxurRIJr/EgK/miAhyVTvRiMpgewGvA0Huc9Tjn0xCTWlIQGFNJluyTMI/DimbNMvqsvAMFezZSWlYayq97lOSLOL7WeVr8MzGYKFttV1iH0SrBGJ//DftExuS4vS/GJ3k4XlwkPO1i2A6Wd9vH/ZPMFs= ; Message-ID: <20050408194140.56966.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.114] by web41902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:41:39 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:41:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: RE: [h-cost] pet peeves..... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was given the Misladen Impression by the person that referred me here originally that it was Very SCA centered! Yes this list does have teh reputation for being a SCA site to many... SCAdians.... Just a FYI....... I figured out quickly by reading the same posts several times sent to me... that it was not completely SCA centered....Opinions are a good thing...Keeps people on their toes. Since stron opinions are apparently welcome here.... thought I would voice mine as welll.... Its friday.... Sunny and WARM...... Have a great weekend everyone! Satine otsisto wrote: Well for one this list is not SCA. Reasons for getting the cricket chorus would be because we don't know the answer, don't know the answer and are searching (with the possibility that the info is at another location), we know something but will let someone else who might know more and that might know more person unknowingly is off line for a few days.....etc Sometimes there will be venting and almost always strong opinions on a subject. De -----Original Message----- >I am a novice about this costiiming stuff Most of my 10 years in SCa have > >been spent doing A& S stuff like Beading, Wirework, Brewing, Singing, > >Embroidery, and taching these carious thing s I know to others. Its time > >I move onto something different. Hence why I am here! > > > >AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so cliquey > >with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right now???? It > >appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some of > >the old guard. Just asking! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 16:02:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38K22r3032493 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:02:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38K0iLV022819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:00:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38K0Zsq020777; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:00:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38K0WbH020727 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:00:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA00397DD for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:00:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p587.socket.net [64.85.213.80]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A225D3FB for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:00:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Eyelets vs. grommets and pet peeves..... Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:00:30 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A small note, SCA covers pre - dark ages to Renaissance. But yes the list covers periods beyond 1600. So though there is a large number of people listed, not all are pre 1601 experts. :) De -----Original Message----- It also helps to remember that a large number of people here are not in the SCA, and the list covers all periods, not just medieval. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 16:28:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38KSADp032711 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:28:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38KM7NH025149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:26:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38K8chO027574; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:08:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38K8ULO027442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:08:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j38K25mT010081 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:02:05 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4256E4B5.6040401@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:08:21 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20050408190726.79550.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050408190726.79550.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] How to find the Archives for searching X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lady Satine wrote: > I have been asking how to get to the archives arround here I am > unable to do so as of yet....Would you be able to guide me on how to get to the archives????? I wonder if your message asking about the archives got eaten by the server, as it does sometimes? They're at: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 18:11:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38MBmef001046 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 18:11:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38MAcLV009990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:10:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38MAAop035582; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:10:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (m02.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j38M9vi0035271 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:10:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from llwatts@juno.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m02.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBFQAKHAXBM8F2 for (sender ); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:09:43 -0700 (PST) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: WJAeLflMin2r+7mN51BJ7nt8k4tH8amVRWbbURv/7RikWEawIXvW0w== Received: (from llwatts@juno.com) by m02.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KP4LR7DL; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 15:08:31 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:07:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shrinkage question Message-ID: <20050408.170717.-309851.0.LLWatts@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,13-14 From: Leah L Watts X-ContentStamp: 5:2:1730794449 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > How much shrinkage should I allow for when I place > > the order? Would an extra yard be enough? > > It varies depending on the batches. But mine shrank about what I'd > expect > cotton to shrink. You were thinking a yard over how much? Unless > you're > going to buy over 10 yards, I think one extra yard would be enough. It looks like 7 yards of usable fabric will make up the outfit if I sew the sash out of something else for contrast. I still haven't decided if I want to do that, though. The pattern envelope says a yard for the sash, so if I go with a matching sash I'd need 8 yards of post-prewash fabric. Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 18:38:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38McVqD001183 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 18:38:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38MbELV014286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38MbBiZ060006; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:37:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-1.paradise.net.nz (bm-1a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38Mb8Y2059820 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:37:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (smtp-2a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.195]) by linda-1.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IEN002OVG5O3R@linda-1.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 10:37:00 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-146-180.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.146.180]) by smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1EF9E2EC for ; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 10:36:59 +1200 (NZST) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 10:30:54 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet peeves..... In-reply-to: <6.2.1.2.0.20050408073616.04096eb0@mail.justinanimator.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4257061E.8090304@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050408073616.04096eb0@mail.justinanimator.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >> >> >> AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so >> cliquey with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right >> now???? It appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be >> tollerated by some of the old guard. Just asking! >> ! > Ummm... I've been on this list less than six months and I didn't even notice cliqueyness. Adele _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 19:13:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38ND7Al001358 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 19:13:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38NBsLV019546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:11:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38NBlcc088451; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:11:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38NBYrm088329 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:11:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20050408231129013000ktive>; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 23:11:29 +0000 Message-ID: <004001c53c90$4e13e110$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.1.2.0.20050408073616.04096eb0@mail.justinanimator.com> <4257061E.8090304@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet peeves..... Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 19:11:32 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been on this list since 1995 and was an older college student then. I have never noticed clicks, but I never noticed them in school either. What some may perceive as a click may be really good friends on the lists. Several members have know other members for a very long time and feel free to discuss more openly. I sometimes like to joke with members I have known a long time. If it seems like an inside comment, I don't mean it to be. Members who have known me for a long time, know that I like to joke around. But I am very passionate about costumes of any type. There are several mentors on this list and have been for years. Some are role models/mentors and do not even know it they are one. Several of my first role models or mentors in this industry I met on this email list. The wonderful thing about the list members are some have spent their life studying one area or period of costuming. They are such a valuable resource. If that is the clicks that are being referred to, please look at it in a different manner. These people are a jewel in h-costume's crown. I am a floater on the list. I like about any topic or period. I study a given period or topic for a year and more on to another. My hat is off to those who devote themselves to one period or topic. I can say out of the past ten years, I have never been bored! Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 19:29:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38NT9AC001445 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 19:29:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38NSCLV021895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:28:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38NS8of000885; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:28:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.252]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38NS0Q4000784 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:28:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DK2tJ-0004dj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:27:57 -0700 Message-ID: <4257137C.5020102@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:27:56 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to find the Archives for searching References: <20050408190726.79550.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> <4256E4B5.6040401@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <4256E4B5.6040401@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I wonder too because I answered it myself, but then again, I can tell I am not getting all messages. You should be getting a periodic reminder about how to use the list, which will include a link to here: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume How to get to the archives is towards the bottom with some explanatory stuff as well. Sg Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Lady Satine wrote: > >> I have been asking how to get to the archives arround here I am >> unable > > to do so as of yet....Would you be able to guide me on how to get to the > archives????? > > I wonder if your message asking about the archives got eaten by the > server, as it does sometimes? > > They're at: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 8 19:32:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38NWYXa001474 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 19:32:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j38NVcLV022330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:31:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38NVb9c003693; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:31:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav8.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.80]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38NVVsW003586 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:31:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:31:26 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by BAY106-DAV8.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 23:31:26 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com><00fa01c53b81$51a95900$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 19:31:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2005 23:31:26.0733 (UTC) FILETIME=[156E33D0:01C53C93] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> Awareness of these un-faded colors would be helpful in accurate costume >> color choices. (Why this came as a surprise to anyone is a mystery to >> me.) > > However, the book was copyrighted by the Met in 1974 so I agree with you > that it's a bit puzzling that they were surprised, since the backs have > been seen by previous museum people within the last 30 years or so. I think they would have expected the backs to be more vivid than the front, but they probably were surprised at how MUCH more vivid they were. Heck, I'm fully aware we can produce neon pinks and such with natural dyes, but I'm surprised every time I see it! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 02:32:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j396WYed007952 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 02:32:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j396VXLV024962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:31:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j396VJRg071252; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:31:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j396VA0n071131 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:31:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theresathreadgi@aol.com) Received: from Theresathreadgi@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.79.4315084b (3956) for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 02:31:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Theresathreadgi@aol.com Message-ID: <79.4315084b.2f88d0a7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 02:31:03 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooks and eyes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5117 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine told me that in her research she found in wills, and household inventories hook and eyes were listed, according to her because they were metal and expensive they were used and reused, then even were passed to the next generation. I personally have not read this but then I'm into the sewing not thed research. theresa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 09:24:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39DOfC2006306 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:24:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39DNWLV011936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 07:23:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39DNFAl030877; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 07:23:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from perdition3.onetel.net.uk (perdition3.onetel.net.uk [212.67.120.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j39DNA3G030710 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 07:23:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: (qmail 20660 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2005 13:23:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Mudfeet) (213.78.162.59) by perd3 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2005 13:23:09 -0000 Message-ID: <02ac01c53d07$3b4acb30$fa614ed5@Mudfeet> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:22:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Clothing Breakdance ? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone point me in the direction of any studies on the clothes culturally associated with break dancing please ? In particular their origins, ie historic precedents. Thanks Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the contents of this e-mail or any of its attachments without express consent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 10:17:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39EHJP7006556 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:17:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39EGGLV017045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 08:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39EGCto064855; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 08:16:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39EG9Ze064815 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 08:16:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.73]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39EG7ck008543 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:16:09 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.92.44] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-92-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.44]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39EG20E037718 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:16:06 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050409071443.025bb468@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 07:16:18 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing Breakdance ? In-Reply-To: <02ac01c53d07$3b4acb30$fa614ed5@Mudfeet> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Can anyone point me in the direction of any studies on the clothes >culturally associated with break dancing please ? > >In particular their origins, ie historic precedents. I'd look up Hip-Hop music groups, or Rap music groups, and see what they're wearing. Or I'd go to a high school in East San Jose or East Los Angeles and look around, if I lived near enough. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 10:59:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Ex4oj006904 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:59:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39Ew4LV021419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 08:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39EvwWZ092554; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 08:57:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39EvtJo092526 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 08:57:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (cpe-24-24-22-82.twcny.res.rr.com [24.24.22.82]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j39EvrKQ015522 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050409105609.01c608b0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 10:57:50 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart In-Reply-To: <004001c53c90$4e13e110$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> References: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050408073616.04096eb0@mail.justinanimator.com> <4257061E.8090304@paradise.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.2.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.4.9.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi folks... sorry for the clutter. Just trying to see if my post makes it through. I've got a suspiscion that my emails are hitting ether. I have some theories as to "why" but I'll save those for the list admin - if this doesn't make it through. Mari / Bridgette Webmaster@vet.cornell.edu Mari Stewart College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 11:08:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39F8boN006961 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:08:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39F7gLV022366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:07:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39F7bkG098899; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:07:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39F7a1k098878 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:07:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (cpe-24-24-22-82.twcny.res.rr.com [24.24.22.82]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j39F7XKQ018554 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:07:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050409110306.00ba11b8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 11:07:31 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20050409105609.01c608b0@postoffice8.mail.cornell .edu> References: <004001c53c90$4e13e110$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050408073616.04096eb0@mail.justinanimator.com> <4257061E.8090304@paradise.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.2.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.4.9.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] well that's frustrating X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK... the test made it through... but my thoughtful, inspriational, funny, and filled with common sense reply to Satine didn't. Grrrr. So on the "pet peeves" thread... all I can add at this late date is ... 'yeah - what they said.' Hang in there... I got my fingers smacked the first time I posted to this list. Can't remember by whom and that really doesn't matter, point is I stayed with it and have learned alot. Mari / Bridgette Webmaster@vet.cornell.edu Mari Stewart College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 11:38:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39FcT0Y007157 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:38:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39FbbLV025187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:37:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39FbVg7019397; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:37:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp818.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp818.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j39FbTOd019369 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:37:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (glenn.mcgregor@sbcglobal.net@69.237.116.212 with plain) by smtp818.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2005 15:37:27 -0000 Message-ID: <4257F6B7.7040502@fenris.net> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:37:27 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shrinkage question References: <20050408.170717.-309851.0.LLWatts@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20050408.170717.-309851.0.LLWatts@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Leah L Watts wrote: >>>How much shrinkage should I allow for when I place >>>the order? Would an extra yard be enough? >> >>It varies depending on the batches. But mine shrank about what I'd >>expect >>cotton to shrink. You were thinking a yard over how much? Unless >>you're >>going to buy over 10 yards, I think one extra yard would be enough. > > > It looks like 7 yards of usable fabric will make up the outfit if I sew > the sash out of something else for contrast. I still haven't decided if > I want to do that, though. The pattern envelope says a yard for the > sash, so if I go with a matching sash I'd need 8 yards of post-prewash > fabric. I have that pattern, and in my opinion, it would look better with a matching sash. Would not cut you in two visually. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 11:46:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39FkxGj007204 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:46:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39FjcLV025974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:45:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39FjX5L024872; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:45:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39FjW4A024770 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:45:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from osmanthus@comcast.net) Received: from win98 (c-24-218-29-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.29.62]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005040915452701200ro5nce>; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:45:27 +0000 Message-ID: <001901c53d1c$09cdd470$6601a8c0@win98> From: "Amy Butler Greenfield" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050407160707.014c6d40@127.0.0.1><002501c53ba8$0f7a6070$6401a8c0@AmyPC> <4255D4E1.9090001@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:51:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > I've gotten lovely reds and pinks with madder, and the most amazing > bright, tangerine orange! (on wool...less impressive on silk) > I'm thinking of using the orange wool to knit myself some 16th c > stockings..... I'd love to see pictures if you ever have them! Amy Amy Butler Greenfield http://www.aperfectred.com cochineal@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 11:49:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Fn6pS007218 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:49:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39Fm5LV026283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Fm4II026648; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:48:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav4.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36JZOT8008675 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:35:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:35:19 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by BAY106-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:35:19 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <$GaZnzDDJDVCJwVn@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dylon dye stripper - effective! Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:35:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2005 19:35:19.0653 (UTC) FILETIME=[C45DD950:01C53ADF] X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Crumbs! I'm just using Dylon machine dye-stripper on a length of linen I > dyed before but now want a different colour. You put the fabric in the > machine, start the cycle, leave it 15 minutes and then mix up the dye > stripper and pour it in the soap dispenser. By the time I had finished > rinsing the noxious stuff out of the mixing jug, I glanced in the machine > and the colour had gone completely! Now that's effective! Pretty cool, isn't it? Unfortunately, it doesn't work on most industrial dyes, i.e. if you bought the fabric already dyed, most of the times it won't do much more than make it a slightly lighter shade. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 11:49:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39FnqB5007223 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:49:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39Fn1LV026361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Fn0xN027183; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:49:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36Kf6WO067225 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:41:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A95B132F0078; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:40:59 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.119 ([209.131.81.119] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 6 Apr 05 20:40:58 -0000 Message-ID: <003101c53ae9$2af64220$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200504061637.j36GZEmT048270@net.indra.com><8C708E810F4921A-460-678D@mblk-r21.sysops.aol.com> <4254237B.2000603@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A silk garment filched by a monk? Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:42:34 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Aha!! The "Emperor's New Clothes"! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A silk garment filched by a monk? > As I said earlier, the account was written by: > > SULPITIUS SEVERUS ON THE LIFE OF ST. MARTIN > (SULPITIUS (or Sulpicius) SEVERUS was born in Aquitania about A.D. 363, > and died, as is generally supposed, in A.D. 420.) > > and as I said in my second message, this took place in Gaul. > > What do you think the garment was? Enough people examined it in enough > detail that I doubt it was imaginary, though I also doubt it was > miraculous. As for "brightness," the term could mean shininess, it > could perhaps mean intensity/saturation of color, it could perhaps mean > both. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.som > > tearoses@aol.com wrote: > > >I would have thought monks would be familiar with silk. What's the date and location of this story? > > > >And what would they have meant by "marvelous brightness?" They state the color in the next phrase, so brightness must mean something else. Did they mean it was shiny? > > > >not-a-historian Tea Rose > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 11:50:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Fobug007226 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:50:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39FniLV026415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:49:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39FniKD027592; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:49:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36KjJPs070925 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:45:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.161] (p01.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.161]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j36KgXp17135 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:42:33 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: References: <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <5b54f23a1eb072d5c1f7e467cef68436@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval dress Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:53:10 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, that's the right one. My concern is not with how easy it is to make, but how authentic it is. However, I've since talked to my customer who has decided she now whats something entirely different. I will find out tomorrow and then I will probably have more questions. Sylrog On Apr 6, 2005, at 11:59 AM, JAMES OGILVIE wrote: > Do we have the right number (2806)? That dress is Italian Renaissance > rather than Elizabethan and actually might be easier to make up than > the earlier pattern, not to mention it is more athentic. Just try to > keep her away fram the all too common practice of having a dress like > the red one that splits down the front and wearing only a chemise > under it. > > Janet > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 11:53:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39FrDtG007242 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:53:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39FqJLV026681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:52:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39FqGpx029450; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:52:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.183]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39FqETW029422 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:52:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DKIFq-0003Jk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:52:14 -0700 Message-ID: <4257FA32.6040300@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:52:18 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] well that's frustrating References: <004001c53c90$4e13e110$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050408073616.04096eb0@mail.justinanimator.com> <4257061E.8090304@paradise.net.nz> <5.2.1.1.2.20050409110306.00ba11b8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20050409110306.00ba11b8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mari, I am having the same problem. Have you spoken to Liz? I have not, but since several of us are having the same problem, I think we should. Sg Mari Stewart wrote: > > > OK... the test made it through... but my thoughtful, inspriational, > funny, and filled with common sense reply to Satine didn't. Grrrr. > So on the "pet peeves" thread... all I can add at this late date is > ... 'yeah - what they said.' > > Hang in there... I got my fingers smacked the first time I posted to > this list. Can't remember by whom and that really doesn't matter, > point is I stayed with it and have learned alot. > > Mari / Bridgette > > Webmaster@vet.cornell.edu > > Mari Stewart > College of Veterinary Medicine > Cornell University > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 11:55:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39FtRuG007276 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:55:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39FsWLV026841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:54:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39FsVOU030761; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:54:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LNchk005219 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:23:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LMT2YVFR0GIU3LAT@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:23:31 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LMT2YUS3V8IU3OL6@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:23:30 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:24:04 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns In-reply-to: <20050403084035.40393.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42545374.4070401@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050403084035.40393.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lady Satine wrote: >Hmmmm Princess seams are not period, Tehy are modern.... I have been scolded by many a Laurel about this...However I have been told by other Laurels as Long as its not an A& S project its fine....What does anyone else think????? > > For some value of "OK". Once again, there are no set standards. No one is going to ask someone to leave an event because their seams aren't right. It boils down to how devoted you are to period construction methods. My personal feeling is that by and large, princess seams are a waste of time and fabric, since they aren't a period method, don't give a period look, consume more fabric than period methods, and require additional sewing (a few garb styles excepted, of course). And I don't even enter A & S competitions. But I'm not going to stop _you_, and nether is anyone else, so you just need to decide what you're happiest with. > >Metal Grommets from todays standards are not period... to get arround this I have seen People sew arround the Grommet to hide the Shiny metal thing.... I would use Grommets and not Eyelets because eyelets pull out easier than Grommets.... I have Heard that Hook and Eyes are period... I am lookng into that..... > > Essentially correct. Actually, my eyelet covering is about 1/3 motivated by a desire to cover the shiny thing, and about 2/3 by a desire to stop the shiny thing pulling out. Large grommets are just naff. >I have a dozen reasons I do not like that pattern it looks costumey to me even with amazing fabric...and tallented seamstresses..... . but that is my humble opinion..... > > I heartily concur. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 11:59:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Fxhi2007314 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:59:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39FwgLV027406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:58:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Fwa2o033687; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LVjN7011840 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:32:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE18D39440 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:31:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p089.socket.net [64.85.214.91]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3ADE0C602 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:31:38 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:31:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-DCC-dcc3mcgill-Metrics: net.indra.com 1275; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the SCA Handbook it says something about making an attempt at ? - 1600 garments (not a direct quote). Like here, you will have debates on period construction, color and styles but among the Laurels (persons who have achieved recognition for their expertise in the area of historic Art or Science) and future Laurels. Note there are still Laurels going around and saying that pink is not period. Not everyone gets updated to new info at the same time. There is a common belief that if you are going to make garb you make it as period as possible. If this is her first garb, you may just make it to her whim, within reason. Within reason meaning that if she wants something and you are not skilled enough for it, then don't do it, just make the dress to your skill level. By the way, You will find in late 1300s -early 1400s "Italian", a square neckline with a different color front panel. At least the fresco and painting looks that way. My hardcopy files are in a disarray and I am not very good with computers to keep a url of the pictures. So if I get the chance I will try to look these up so that you can see what I am talking about. If she has not bought a pattern yet, might I direct you to this site. http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/ also, http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/costumeconnection.htm http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_8.html http://www.mediaevalmisc.com/patterns.htm Though for most woman that are DD. I hear that Elizabethan is good because the "corset" helps support the bust and back. IF this sounds feasible, perhaps you might be interested in, http://www.margospatterns.com/mainframe.htm I wish you well in you sewing and hope that I have not made some confusion here. De -----Original Message----- I keep trying to figure out just how much authenticity my customer wants to go for and I am finding it very difficult to pin her down. I am not a member of the SCA myself and I gather that there are very wide variations in authenticity within the organization. This has probably come up in discussion before, but are there any standards that those of you know of who are in the SCA? Sylrog ' _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 12:05:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39G5TZU007368 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:05:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39G4dLV028291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:04:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39G4Z3f037727; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:04:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36LWsMm012901 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:32:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LMT3AHDLSGIU3LAT@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:32:52 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LMT3AGMCGEIU3OL6@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:32:52 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:33:26 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval dress In-reply-to: <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <425455A6.6060901@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> X-DCC-dcc3mcgill-Metrics: net.indra.com 1275; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > I passed on the conclusion I came to with all your help in regard to > the Butterick pattern and its lack of historical accuracy to my > customer, thinking she would want to go ahead anyhow, but it appears > she may want to try something else that is more period accurate. > Unfortunately, the fabric she has already purchased is not anything > found in the Middle Ages. She's already bought a lot of it and it is > lovely fabric. Do I tell her or just ignore that and proceed with > whatever we both decide to make? She is thinking now of using McCalls > 2806, which can be found here: > http://www.reddawn.net/costume/mccalls.htm Depends-- what kind of fabric is it. Is it actually nasty, or just a bit off? > > It is a discontinued Elizabethan pattern. I thought the SCA was > supposed to be medieval. Isn't this too late for the SCA? Not to > mention that the pattern in discontinued. Plus if I have to make a > pattern the dress will end up costing her another $100 or so. I wish > she could have consulted with me before ever starting this project but > since she already has the fabric, I'm not sure what to advise her now. > The SCA covers the years up to 1600, so Elizabethan/Renaissance is fine. Try Googling the pattern name and number for a start-- sometimes you can pick up discontinued patterns here and there. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 12:08:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39G8G4B007398 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:08:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39G7OLV028826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:07:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39G7O7m039670; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:07:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41906.mail.yahoo.com (web41906.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j36M7V4e044783 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:07:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 43961 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Apr 2005 22:07:25 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=PwM/et/nsJdrIMp0w+a5yi/7hSYfbSoyvDh+YJhnn8m7UgS/kHA7QznWAJPcYjQuubiCsQKgffwyuqcleT10yFhmGrNMMV4vnqVXRNX0R7iKyrHZShVBbwl1vv3OEKX3FbF1xT0fftM2xqEU3e2bHkNnJ6s8v2eloLOId/foj2s= ; Message-ID: <20050406220725.43959.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.73] by web41906.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:07:25 PDT Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:07:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval dress/McCall's 2806 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am too having some msg issues I am getting repeats from last week and the past few days . This is the first time it has happened in a while...... I agree with Cynthia it is a Italian ren Pattern.. Circa 1450-1510 ish.. emphasis on ish!. My Primary time period....At this point there is not much you can tell her for this outfit... Just remind her she is supposed to look "Fat" or Pregnant it If she really wants to be period she should wear the three layers the Chemise/Camicia, the under dress.. which would be teh Metallicy looking material on teh pattern, adn teh outer Dress/tabbard the red layer.... Just guide her through things for her next outfit... I know cringe.... but with newbies... we were all there at one time or another........Good luck! Satine --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 12:19:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39GJbAB007477 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:19:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39GIeLV001439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:18:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39GIYZg046948; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:18:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav9.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j36NecqZ023288 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:40:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:40:33 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by BAY106-DAV9.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:40:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:40:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2005 23:40:33.0305 (UTC) FILETIME=[0662F890:01C53B02] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You > may remember my mockup and the photos of the young man and lady wearing it > (in sequence, not simultaneously). > > --Robin Robin, that was WEIRD... Now I'm imagining the man and lady trying to both fit in the gown at the same time... must be that cold I got... brain fuzzy think funny... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 12:25:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39GPYeQ007516 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:25:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39GOgLV002993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:24:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39GObWQ050572; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:24:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j370v3xm080782 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:57:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17017 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:11:46 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:11:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts In-Reply-To: <4252FE08.2020102@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > otsisto wrote: > > >Is there a possibility that there was more then one way of making a bliaut? > >Could it have been regional? Like Paris made it one way and Brussels made it > >another? > > Regional variations, yes. Completely different construction methods, > probably not. Actually, the style that is under discussion here is probably regional in itself. But this depends on what you mean by "bliaut." The term has a much more widespread usage than the style that most people think of when they hear that word. The term "bliaut" is a French word for some form of overgown. We can get some clues about its characteristics from literature -- for instance, it is often described as being worn by nobility and royalty, and in such cases is made of rich cloth. It has side lacings in at least some cases, to pull it closer to the torso. However, there's not nearly enough to go on to match up the word with a particular garment seen in visual sources. The style seen on certain statutes, such as those at Chartres -- the one most often characterized by horizontal texturing on a tight bodice, vertical lines on the skirt, a seeming division or line between bodice and skirt, a certain belt arrangement, droopy ripply sleeves, etc. -- appears in a very limited context. It shows up only in a certain region of France for a short stretch of time (I forget the exact decades), almost always in sculpture (I can't think of any non-sculptural examples, in fact), and virtually always on allegorical or royal figures. This style was the one identified by certain 19th century authors as being the "bliaut," and that is the name that has been associated with those garments ever since, but there is no way to know whether this is the same gown that is referred to by that name in writing. Other art works from this period, such as manuscript illuminations, show a far less curious style -- same close body and full skirt, often with droopy sleeve ends and even visible side lacings, but not the more problematic details of texture, lines, and body/skirt division seen in the statues. It's certainly a reasonable hypothesis that the style depicted in the manuscripts was the "bliaut" of literature, but that can't be certain either. However, its characeristics do pretty much match up to the written descriptions of the "bliaut." So if the question is "How do you make a bliaut?" then the answer is another question: "What do you mean by 'bliaut'?" Because the construction of the garment in the illuminations doesn't pose any significant or unusual problems, whereas the garment of the statues is essentially unsolvable; there are many theories, and every single one has flaws. That, in a nutshell, is the "bliaut problem." I personally think that the limited context for the sculptural version, along with the obvious construction problems and the disconnect with the fashions of the preceding and following periods, raise a strong possibility that the images do not represent a normal fashionable garment. They might be a complete invention, for instance the result of a certain artistic school of decorative techniques in sculpture, or a deliberately fanciful image used as artistic code for "royalty/saint/allegorical figure." Or they might represent a particularly unusual short-lived style worn by the French queen or court, perhaps as a result of a small, finite quantity of exotic fabrics or garments brought back from Crusade, and thus became recognizable visual style for "queen" in that period. I think either of these theories makes more sense than assuming that this was the "bliaut" that literary references suggest was commonly worn by nobility over a large area of Europe for a significant period. But that's just me. --Robin one of those "folks who write long posts on h-costume" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 12:34:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39GYSbW007575 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:34:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39GXPLV003899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:33:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39GXMfx056415; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:33:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j372veWw066047 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:57:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050407025729.EFGW5260.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:57:29 +1200 Received: from michaela ([222.152.202.221]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050407025728.LXOE22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:57:28 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.9.4]); Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:57:30 +1200 Message-ID: <00c101c53b1d$89d5aea0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050406230008.56277.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com><42548195.2010900@thibault.org> <42548514.6050606@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: Eyelets vs. grommets Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:57:30 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Personally, I tend to specify: > > Handsewn eyelet = just that > Metal eyelet = one piece metal eyelet pressed into place with an eyelet > press tool through a pre-made awl hole. I always thoroughly oversew mine. > Grommets = two piece metal eye, often large. I never use these. I've seen the opposite said of metal eyelets and grommets as well;) I call all the metal things "grommets" as a grommet really is a small tube. There are ear grommets used to treat glue ear, and they are little plastic/rubber tubes. Grommet and washer for the two part. It usually saves a lot of confusion. Grommet's without washers are just pointless. Unless you do something else to them;) I also only ever make a hole for grommets by a pointy thing rather than cutting the fabric. Even rather large holes, I wind up wiggling a large knitting needle. It makes them much safer from popping. Of course it also makes them much harder to remove due to all the tension around the hole.... Now if I could get my hands on a proper awl rather than those glorified nails sold in the local shops..... My Oxford dictionary isn't terribly usedful in explaining when one term came to be used over the other. But I'm sure the actual Oxford dictionary would have all the references;) regards, michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.4 - Release Date: 6/04/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 12:38:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Gcd6j007595 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:38:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39GbkLV004290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:37:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Gbj16059363; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:37:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j374CVue022358 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:12:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LMTH8VYJNKIXTW34@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:12:27 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LMTH8V9BQSIU3RPP@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:12:27 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:13:01 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval gown In-reply-to: <4254B2DF.90900@in-tch.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4254B34D.70309@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <039301c53b16$0174d380$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> <4254B2DF.90900@in-tch.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > In the town > where I was born > lived a man > who sailed to sea.... Sky of blue and sea of green... -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 12:41:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Gfi6d007615 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:41:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39GerLV004627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:40:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Gengx061424; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:40:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j374NMdm030663 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:23:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m184.in-tch.com [216.166.191.184]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j374JJo02382 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:19:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4254B701.9070007@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:28:49 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] MC&T Journal References: <200504062029.38786.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200504062029.38786.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm chiming in, agreeing with Catherine here. The people I know of (locally) who are most likely to buy this sort of publication may not always be dead serious about costuming or textiles, per se, but they are *quite* serious about doing good research. We're kind of like borderline-academics, I guess, and some of us have amazing collections. As an illo....my biggest "finds" on my Europe trip a few years ago were all scholarly texts--I have the first 3 volumes of a series on Medieval Dublin, and the book from the York Archaeological Trust on the the Textiles, Cordage, etc. from the Coppergate digs. My best purchase last year (with my tax refund, god bless it) was almost 300 euro' worth of books from the Royal Irish Academy. Some single-topic books, some collections of monographs. This year, my finds are _Woven into the Earth, the Anglo-saxon dress book by Gale Owen-Crocker, and the MC&T journal. Fascinating, all of it....the sheer variety (everything from textiles to Viking ship graffiti) is the closest I can get to scholastic heaven, I think, short of winning a lottery and being able to spend the rest of my living days in formal scholarly pursuits. ;-) They're all treasures, even for an amateur like me. So I don't think you've got anything to worry about with this journal, Robin! I'm already drooling, thinking of volume 2. --sue, certified bibliophile.... Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > I know, Robin, that you've been concerned that people will buy MC&T, expecting > it to be a how-to or a costume survey, instead of a journal of scholarly > essays on a variety of costume-related issues (some of which, I'm sure, may > be relatively unrelated to costume re-creation or construction). But > speaking for myself, I would rather have to wade through a "scholarly" work > for information that really will enhance my knowledge of historic costume, > than read a dozen well-meaning "surveys" repeating the same things "everyone" > knows, and that are in many instances, flat-out wrong. > > Good luck! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 12:47:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Glfpk007678 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:47:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39GkfLV005241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:46:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Gkcmd065186; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:46:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j377BvAt041895 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:12:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2005 07:11:51 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050407080621.014c67b8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:11:58 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: Eyelets vs. grommets Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns In-Reply-To: <42548514.6050606@paradise.net.nz> References: <42548195.2010900@thibault.org> <20050406230008.56277.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> <42548195.2010900@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:55 07/04/2005 +1200, you wrote: >Cynthia Virtue wrote: > >>Most of the time, people on this list use the term "eyelet" to refer to a >>hole poked in the fabric and button-hole-stitched around the hole to keep >>it open. No metal is involved. Grommets would be the sort that you whap >>with a mallet, in two pieces, which cut the threads as it is attached. > > >Personally, I tend to specify: > >Handsewn eyelet = just that >Metal eyelet = one piece metal eyelet pressed into place with an eyelet >press tool through a pre-made awl hole. I always thoroughly oversew mine. >Grommets = two piece metal eye, often large. I never use these. Just to confuse you still further, here in England, we don't have grommets, except as things that go in people's ears when they have glue ear, or as items at a hardware store. My DH tells me they are usually made of rubber, two sided and are used to protect holes in wood, steel etc. Eyelets have two pieces, an eyelet and a washer, and are usually put in using a tool of some kind, although you can wack 'em with a hammer. I have a hand worked machine (not hand held) with a "die" that sets them for me - I can buy different dies for different size eyelets. Also hand made of course. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 12:51:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Gp4M3007714 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:51:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39GnvLV005546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:49:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39GnuiA067493; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:49:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts8.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39GnqpB067389 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:49:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([65.92.205.247]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050409164947.ESYS1623.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:49:47 -0400 Message-ID: <003b01c53d24$13b3e1c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:47:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Clothing Breakdance X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! My memory was mostly correct, Breakdance started in New York sometime in the 60's. I did a quick google search out of curiosity and here's what I came up with: http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/jmgutier/webquest.html http://www.globaldarkness.com/articles/history%20of%20breaking.htm http://www.jahsonic.com/Breakdance.html (this one makes mention of clothes) Interestingly, most of the articles I looked at credit James Brown as being the originator of breakdancing!? Curiosity piqued and mostly satisfied, Sheridan ****************************************************** On nights such as this, witches are abroad. Well, not actually abroad. They don't like the food and you can't trust the water and the shamans always hog the deckchairs. Terry Pratchett _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 12:53:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39GrDDW007739 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:53:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39GqKLV006115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:52:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39GqHYU069983; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:52:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from perdition3.onetel.net.uk (perdition3.onetel.net.uk [212.67.120.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j39GqFgM069842 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:52:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: (qmail 27068 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2005 16:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Mudfeet) (213.78.124.159) by perd3 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2005 16:52:16 -0000 Message-ID: <02e601c53d24$71990d60$fa614ed5@Mudfeet> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20050409071443.025bb468@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing Breakdance ? Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:51:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Or I'd go to a high school in East San Jose or East Los Angeles and look around, if I lived near enough. I'm in England so definatly not near enough ;) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the contents of this e-mail or any of its attachments without express consent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 12:54:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39GswOM007759 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:54:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39GrwLV006286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:53:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39GrvGj071187; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:53:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from leopard.mail.utk.edu (leopard.mail.utk.edu [160.36.0.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37DmqvC096308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:48:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@utk.edu) Received: from webmail.utk.edu (camel.usg.utk.edu [160.36.178.34]) by leopard.mail.utk.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j37Dn6rD024571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:49:06 -0400 X-WebMail-UserID: sfarmer Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:48:51 -0400 From: Susan Farmer To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002252 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts Message-ID: <429F99D0@webmail.utk.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Infinite Mobile Delivery (Hydra) SMTP v3.62.01 X-Spam-Status: Message recipients not local. X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.45 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is a great picture - it shows several points I've been trying to document . What and where is it? Ok. I scanned this image from a book titled Romanesque and gothic France: Architecture and sculputre by Minne-Seve and Kergall (tr. Hawkes). the figure is from "St. Loup de Naud" where-ever that is! > ---- wrote: > > Try this ..... > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6qse5 the things that I find intriguing about this image is that you can see a finely pleated garment of some sort at the neckline "disappearing behind" the heavily ornamented neckband of "an outer garment." If you scroll down to the waist, you can see the wrap belt (presumably criss-crossing on her back) because you can see the tassels below the upper part of the belt. What caught *my* eye, was that if you look between the upper and lower parts of the belt, you see another "ornamented band" not as deeply ornamented as around the neckline or the belt -- and below that band (and above the knot of her belt) the fine pleats of the "'under'garment" show up again. As I say, to *my* eyes, this looks like a different garment over a finely pleated *something* Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Botany Department, University of Tennessee http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:03:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39H37Kc007832 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:03:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39H1wLV007004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:01:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39H1qnL076329; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:01:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from perdition3.onetel.net.uk (perdition3.onetel.net.uk [212.67.120.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j39H1ncF076219 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:01:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: (qmail 8008 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2005 17:01:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Mudfeet) (213.78.124.159) by perd3 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2005 17:01:51 -0000 Message-ID: <02f501c53d25$c850ccf0$fa614ed5@Mudfeet> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003b01c53d24$13b3e1c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing Breakdance Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:01:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks I found those, better sites seem to turn up with the term b-boying , which I found mention of on one site :)) Still not much clothing specific though Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the contents of this e-mail or any of its attachments without express consent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:05:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39H5QCE007842 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:05:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39H4ULV007591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:04:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39H4UF1078134; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:04:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37GWtnb037562 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:32:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C3D340096 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id D20883994; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:32:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.132] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCVWCrAAxSGwEAAAAB,2f87dd63de34964ad6309ae826c4b703 Message-Id: <20050407163243.D20883994@sitemail.everyone.net> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree - if it is an older model in good condition grab it. I have a fifty year old Singer that I love that (like me) never gives up. I have a newer New Home that I have to tinker with constantly because it is such a wimp. The old ones weigh a ton but are so much sturdier. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "dgandh" wrote: From: "dgandh" Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:28:46 +0200 To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... I have been thinking about buying a sewing machine to do the seems and bits that you don't see in things like shirts, slops and sailors jackets. Most of what I would be sewing will be linen (a lot of the old handwoven stuff) thick wools and maybe silk now and again. I am leaning towards an older Pfaff 230 or 260 machine for around $100 (or 55 Pounds sterling, 60 Euros whatever) Or would my money be better spent on a newer Pfaff from the hobby line $300 (or other suggestion?) I don't really need all the fancy heart shaped stitches and stuff. Greg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. 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Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:12:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39HCrmO007886 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:12:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HBwLV008680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:11:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39HBv2Z083309; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:11:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37I6K7d025525 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:06:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from camelothorse@earthlink.net) Message-Id: <200504071806.j37I6K7d025525@net.indra.com> Received: from [4.230.21.129] (helo=camelot01) by smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DJbOU-0001hf-V1 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:06:20 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Organization:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:Thread-Index:In-Reply-To; b=tRpXCwvjKJZNa11tGEZSqpF6nNav1hD1Qfzv2xpA128TOwx4jklt5o3bfn4tFyTh; From: "Diane Maynard" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:06:31 -0500 Organization: Camelot Horse Center MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcU7ZwrfZ18Xkn6iRQWV1Na/bzt9fAADim/gAAlhFOA= In-Reply-To: <1DJX3v-1QZfjE0@fwd23.sul.t-online.de> X-ELNK-Trace: 7d3e56efc2551607917237dadff7bf594d2b10475b571120826f44e616c97521f4b2f3b3011e42713d22eb99cf5c6dcb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.230.21.129 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am going to jump in here and add my two cents worth. I have a pfaff 130 machine that my Mother gave to me. She bought this machine "USED" when I was 5 yrs. old and I am well-----let's just say the machine has been in my family for over forty five years and it was bought used. The tension was giving me a little trouble and I took the machine in to our local shop to see if it was worth repairing. The man looked at the machine---cleaned it ( I know it had not ever been into a shop for maintenance in it's life ) ----and said " do not sell this machine because NOTHING on the market now is built as well". He also told me that I did not need to get a new industrial machine to sew clothing weight leather. All of the gears in the old Phaff are steel and it IS a heavy duty machine compared to the new ones. These guys are worth their weight in gold (and they weigh a ton !). By the way, I do own a light weight White for lugging around and a Janome for the fancy embroidery work. They are both excellent machines for what they are used for but, my work horse is the Phaff. Good luck, Diane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:16:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39HGGwM007898 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:16:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HF5LV009034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39HF2S3085180; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:15:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from galaxy.systems.pipex.net (galaxy.systems.pipex.net [62.241.162.31]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37J3V0s075834 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:03:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by galaxy.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9270AE00014C for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 20:03:19 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <005a01c53ba4$76a494e0$0200a8c0@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6667> <4.3.1.2.20050406143620.025cb858@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooks and eyes Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 20:03:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Early Anglo-Saxon wrist clasps ? I'm sure I've seen some, (somewhere), that looked just like hooks and eyes. Linda Walton, (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:19:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39HJ2dB007914 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:19:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HICLV009353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39HICpJ087329; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:18:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37JxUl0024897 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:59:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from [192.168.167.43] (helo=wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1DJdA1-0007DR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 15:59:29 -0400 Message-ID: <6856659.1112903969518.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:59:28 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Amy, As an instructor of writing, I just have to say that your webpage on cochineal dying was not only fascinating but also a LOVELY piece of writing! I'd love to show it to my students as an example of a "process essay" that beautifully melds instruction and literature. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- From: Amy Butler Greenfield Sent: Apr 7, 2005 3:29 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries Fascinating New Yorker article! Suzi wrote: > It does surprise me that the team didn't expect the backs to be brighter I understand what you mean, Suzi. And yet I, too, have been surprised by how bright traditional dyes can be. When I did some dyeing experiments with cochineal on silk (roughly following some 17th-century formulas) I expected to get a fairly bright red. But the red I actually got was much more vivid than I could have imagined -- almost a neon red. I finally understood why observers said that the dye "dazzled the eye." If anyone wants to see photos of my dyeing results, you can find them here: http://www.amybutlergreenfield.com/Amusements_Dyeing.html Amy Amy Butler Greenfield cochineal@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:23:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39HNkku007966 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:23:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HM9ML009675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39H8D1R080770; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:08:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37HNiRb085471 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:23:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06952326pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.8.214]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0216A15C1D for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:23:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:23:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <1DJX3v-1QZfjE0@fwd23.sul.t-online.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcU7ZwrfZ18Xkn6iRQWV1Na/bzt9fAADim/gAAg7O5A= Message-Id: <20050407172336.0216A15C1D@mail03.powweb.com> X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would agree completely with getting an older machine. I am very fond of vintage straight stitch machines. They do a wonderful stitch, and it is almost impossible to kill them. They will also sew tents and the like. By vintage I mean machines from at the latest around 1965- the older black Singer 201, 15, the Pfaff 130 in particular is in demand by some quilters, etc, etc. Where are you? I've been collecting machines for years and have quite a collection and could show you some if you are in the DC area. Most will not do zig-zag, so if you need that you need a slightly newer machine, but the more metal in it, the better off you are. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:27:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39HRm62007990 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:27:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HQhLV010089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:26:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39HQg1Z093025; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:26:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37M4AMC036516 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:04:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.dd.240885a5 (4320) for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:03:57 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:03:57 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Agnes Sorel To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/7/2005 6:03:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jaurbik@optonline.net writes: Here is an intresting news story about Agnes Sorel. it turns out that she was recently unearthed and had some chemical analysis was done on her. But the articule does not mention the m ost important part---which is of course "did they find any fabric on her"? Is there a link to the story? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:32:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39HWH9q008032 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:32:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HVLLV010343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:31:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39HVJSN096061; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:31:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j37N3Lhs087631 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:03:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DJg1x-0000Lc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:03:21 -0700 Message-ID: <4255BC39.6030106@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:03:21 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] MC&T Journal-missing part of the conversation References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am only getting a portion of all the posts, so I missed out on the original. What is the full name of the journal please, so I can further help impress Robin's publisher? Sg Robin Netherton wrote: >On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Catherine Kinsey wrote: > > > >> I truly expected most people to plan on borrowing copies through >>libraries, and I've been stunned and >>impressed by the number of people who are buying their own copies >> >>Robin >> >> >>Maybe we want to help be sure there is a second volume :). >> >> > >For this I am very grateful :-) > >I can state with authority that you folks made a heck of an impression on >my publisher. Now I have to hope we live up to the expectations! > >--Robin > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:36:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Ha36K008090 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:36:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HYdLV010568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:34:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39HYcPc098328; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:34:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j380ZF2b052593 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:35:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-217-56-78.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.217.56.78]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j380Yx1d005388 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:35:00 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c53bd2$ad63d8a0$4e38d9cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] exhibition project Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:27:34 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aylwen & John" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:21 AM Subject: [h-cost] exhibition project > Hi, I'm putting together a proposal with costings to put together an > exhibition of women's clothing in Australia from 1788 - 1901. I'm > looking to display both the day and evening gowns and their > underpinnings and supports. I've only just started putting together the > proposal, so would love any hints or suggestions that I should > consider. I will the one making the garments - I'm looking at finding > paintings of Australian women in this time-frame and copying the > garments featured in them, that way they could be displayed with the > painting and be more of a research project. I'm also hoping to put > together a book detailing the progress of making all the garments. > Warmest Regards, Aylwen Hi Aylwen, I'd contact the National Library to have a look at their photo collections and probably their newspapers as well (IIRC they have a few pre 20th century newspapers the state libraries might have more but they're not local). You'll probably find more photos and prints/drawings than paintings as they were more accessible to people. If you want paintings you could try the national gallery and/or the state galleries (I've been told the state gallery of Victoria is particularly good). If all else fails you can assume that most fashions were imported from England but would have been behind due to the speed of communication. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole@iimetro.com.au Mr. Speaker, I said the honourable member was a liar it is true and I am sorry for it. The honourable member may place the punctuation where he pleases. Richard Brinsley Sheridan (1751-1816) British dramatist. On being asked to apologise for calling a fellow MP a liar. Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:40:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39He1Md008107 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:40:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HcwLV010903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:38:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39HcruV001307; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:38:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j385QGYW034163 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:26:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from cottontail.webwarren.com (pcp09760503pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.38.25.187]) by webwarren.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j385EtJ27382 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 01:14:55 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050408012100.04ce0670@mail.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 01:26:05 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: A silk garment filched by a monk? In-Reply-To: <200504061800.j36I0hOx026872@net.indra.com> References: <200504061800.j36I0hOx026872@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran inquired: >What do you think the garment was? Enough people examined it in enough >detail that I doubt it was imaginary, though I also doubt it was >miraculous. As for "brightness," the term could mean shininess, it could >perhaps mean intensity/saturation of color, it could perhaps mean both. What it sounds like to me is a purple silk robe of some sort, possibly in a satin weave, and possibly in a style not common to that area of the world. It could have been brought in by anyone having contact with Anatolius... including, possibly, the true source of the "voices" to which he had been speaking when nobody else from the monastery was present. Cynically, Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:43:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39HhF14008117 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:43:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HgKLV011233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:42:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39HgKrv003697; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:42:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j386tVu9084466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:55:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j386nBmT004104 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 02:49:11 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 02:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42562ADF.2000803@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 02:55:27 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eyelets vs. grommets and pet peeves..... References: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lady Satine wrote: > I think my deifinitions are more modern use for these Items. That's ok, now that we know what each other mean. > Kirtles are also some Kind of Elizabethan Garment, Unudergarment of some kind as well I think. "Kirtle" is one of those frustrating terms; it's like "dress." What sort of kirtle depends on what era you're talking of, but within that era, there are some things you can rely on about it. > So Cynthia did I confuse you even more?????? I am glad you asked, I could not stamd being yelled at for being a NOVICE and NOT an experienced sewer anymore and the pet peeves.... I must have missed any yelling or pet peeves, but I've been skimming the list rather than taking a lot of time to read it. Could you give an example? > It appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some of the old guard. That hasn't been my experience in watching new folks come on the list. Has someone sent something nasty to you in private email? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The World Health Organization is campaigning to reduce the numbers of women and babies who die during pregnancy and childbirth. Each year, half a million women die in pregnancy and four million newborns do not survive more than a month. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:46:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39HkZIF008133 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:46:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HjeLV011362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:45:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39HjbIR005884; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:45:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3896SBT056401 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 03:06:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050408090616.IGSD22141.avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 21:06:16 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.202.221]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050408090616.BQTB22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 21:06:16 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.9.5]); Fri, 08 Apr 2005 21:06:20 +1200 Message-ID: <001901c53c1a$3aa252e0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eyelets vs. grommets and pet peeves..... Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 21:06:19 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Kirtles are also some Kind of Elizabethan Garment, Unudergarment of some kind as well I think...I have hears mentioned in Reference to elizabethan here a while back..... Any elizabethan ladies care to comment on that ??? did I get the Term right... Hehehe, it all depends on what era;) I know the word kirtle refers to a different type of garment in the 14thC, but I'll leave those with more knowelege of the various terms then to explain what it is. I have a feeling it's a long sleeved garment... Anyway, kirtle is also a bit of a generic term for supportive garments that have different names in other countries. A vasquina in Spain is a petticote, a cuerpo baxo y vasquina is a bodiced petticoat and would be similar in effect to a supportive underlayer in Flemish, English, French and German dress of the late 16thC. Though of course all cut differently. Also a kirtle is used (most likely) under Burgundian dress and we have images of women in kirtles from that time as well. I haven't studied texts of the Lowlands to find out what the actual term is. Kirtles are mentioned in the inventories of the Privy Purse from around 1500, and as kirtles I believe. So it depends on if one is using the term in a generic way (late 15th-late16thC) or specific, and who around you uses the terms. > So Cynthia did I confuse you even more?????? I am glad you asked, I could not stamd being yelled at for being a NOVICE and NOT an experienced sewer anymore and the pet peeves.... Hey, I think a lot of people forget we were all newbie at this at some stage. And it behooves newbies and oldbies alike to give slack;) > I am a novice about this costiiming stuff Most of my 10 years in SCa have been spent doing A& S stuff like Beading, Wirework, Brewing, Singing, Embroidery, and taching these carious thing s I know to others. Its time I move onto something different. Hence why I am here! Hey, you have a head start there most likely:) You will have your head in the same sort of space when you look at art work and for references etc. > AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so cliquey with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right now???? It appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some of the old guard. Just asking! I haven't noticed that, but then I've been deleting with extreme prejudice any mail that looks like a touchy subject;) And hey, some of us who have been around for ages have also been treated not so great at all times either. I've learnt to pick and choose what I reply to and what I don't. It's a hard one, and occasionally easy to forget the lessons previously learnt;) michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 7/04/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:49:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39HnjTD008151 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:49:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HmlLV011587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:48:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39HmlIg008041; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:48:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38B7epJ021334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 05:07:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j38B1FmT006668 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 07:01:15 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 07:01:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <425665F2.9010408@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 07:07:30 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: OT Re: [h-cost] Camel suit References: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c53c26$69686400$f378fddc@chris> In-Reply-To: <000801c53c26$69686400$f378fddc@chris> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-SINECTIS-Metrics: net.indra.com 1114; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yep: http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml;?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=8122024 I was working as office staff at a large hotel in Boston in the late 80s, when The California Raisins stayed there, and one of their costumes was stolen from inside a hotel room. I recall that they were very expensive. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The World Health Organization is campaigning to reduce the numbers of women and babies who die during pregnancy and childbirth. Each year, half a million women die in pregnancy and four million newborns do not survive more than a month. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:57:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39HvC7n008177 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:57:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HtXLV012006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:55:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39HtUdu012354; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:55:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38BgQgp040483 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 05:42:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id AE191AC005A; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 07:42:17 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.113 ([209.131.81.113] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 8 Apr 05 11:42:16 -0000 Message-ID: <005101c53c30$3e70be00$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8C7098FBFAA29D8-BB0-1103D@mblk-d20.sysops.aol.com> <4255FBC7.3040400@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 07:43:53 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And I just found a Kenmore in almost unused condition at a thrift store for$20. It is a duplicate of my beloved of thirty years that is showing her mileage! I used to say that it would sew everything, including balsa wood!! In trying to find a new instruction book, I saw many on one of the vintage sewing sites on the web. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wicked Frau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... > I second Kimberly's opinion. I have a fancy Viking that I hate. I love > my 1969ish Kenmore and my two very old singers. They sew beutifully. > The latter two sew are able to sew such tiny little stitches, that I > needn't back stitch to secure a seam....love that! > > Sg > > chindora@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Greg :) > > > >I believe that you would be well served in purchasing an older model machine that is of good quality. You will make out a lot better than buying a newer model that has a lot more plastic in it, in my opinion. I have an Elna that I purchased 21 years ago, and I would not trade it for anything. Other than occasional trips to the shop for a lube job and thorough cleaning, I have never had any problems with it and the little jewel sews like a charm. We have been through leather, denim, silk chiffon and entirely too much satin, and it has never missed a stitch. > > > >:) > >~Kimberley > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: dgandh > >To: 'Historical Costume' > >Sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:28:46 +0200 > >Subject: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... > > > > > >I have been thinking about buying a sewing machine to do the seems and bits > >that you don't see in things like shirts, slops and sailors jackets. > > > >Most of what I would be sewing will be linen (a lot of the old handwoven > >stuff) thick wools and maybe silk now and again. > > > >I am leaning towards an older Pfaff 230 or 260 machine for around $100 (or > >55 Pounds sterling, 60 Euros whatever) > > > >Or would my money be better spent on a newer Pfaff from the hobby line $300 > >(or other suggestion?) > > > >I don't really need all the fancy heart shaped stitches and stuff. > > > >Greg > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 13:59:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39HxR7m008189 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:59:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39HwaLV012216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:58:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Hwawu014512; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38CIu8q061421 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 06:18:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j38CIr6Q013577 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050408080307.01a882d8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 08:18:52 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <20050408053320.72494.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6667> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] pet peeves..... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so cliquey >with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right now???? It >appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some of >the old guard. Just asking! >! Hey Satine... Well yes, and no. This list is for historical costumers, any and all. Many of the folks on this list are professional costumers or trying to become such. The list isn't just SCA - although quite a few of us are or were active at some point. You'll hear more about crinolines and Civil War era at some times... and others it's all 12th century. Then there are the confections that Bjarne creates - always worth an "ooooh pretty" - but very not SCA. And there is a "language" to the list, just like you'll find in any community. Don't take a question or a clarification as a rejection or as a dismissal... We're just trying to communicate. And part of that is learning how each other uses specific terms. I got my fingers smacked the first time I posted - can't remember by whom... it doesn't matter. What does matter is that these folks are a great source of information and experience. So I came back for more. And have since then learned, and maybe contributed a bit. There are some very strong personalities on the list, but not a one that I would call "seeking to crush newcomers" - so be welcome. Pull up a chair. Mari (aka Bridgette) Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:02:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39I2UWA008209 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:02:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39I1PLV012534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:01:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39I1M8m016628; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:01:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from abraxis.com (mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38CxoNG085139 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 06:59:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sandraleigh@abraxis.com) Received: from mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210] by abraxis.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.12) id A0403EA100E4; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 08:59:44 -0400 Received: from Sandra ([216.47.84.25]) by mail.abraxis.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:59:43 -0400 From: "Sandra Olsen" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:59:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c53c3a$cda17f10$19542fd8@Sandra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20050407.155538.-300101.3.LLWatts@juno.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2005 12:59:43.0950 (UTC) FILETIME=[D59C7EE0:01C53C3A] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dye remover question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Someone recently wrote in about the wonders of dye remover... I am wondering if I could pick her brain, or anyone else with experience in this arena. Due to an unfortunate combination of fabrics during my attempt to pre-shrink some yardage, I now have four yards of faintly pink linen. Pink is not my color, and I'd really rather have my white linen back. Do you think that dye remover could restore it to its pristine condition? Or should I just give up and try to over-dye it some other color entirely? -Sandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:13:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39ID3Y1008246 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:13:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IC3LV013468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IBdSK023846; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:11:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IBb38023758 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:11:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12808 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:26:29 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:26:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] MC&T Journal-missing part of the conversation In-Reply-To: <4255BC39.6030106@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Wicked Frau wrote: > I am only getting a portion of all the posts, so I missed out on the > original. What is the full name of the journal please, so I can > further help impress Robin's publisher? I just got the above with today's massive dump of delayed posts. Here's the short answer: Medieval Clothing & Textiles Publisher: Boydell & Brewer Publisher web page with contents of Vol. 1 listed: http://www.boydell.co.uk/43831236.HTM Also available through Amazon and Barnes & Noble. This is an annual academic journal containing highly specialized papers ranging in time focus from early Medieval to Renaissance, and representing such disciplines as art history, archaeology, literature, economics/trade, history of technology, social history, and experimental reconstruction of techniques. Some papers will be of interest to re-enactors and costumers from particular periods; others will have more limited application. If you'd like a direct discount through me, e-mail me directly (reduced price to $37.50 plus $4 shipping, from the publisher). That's for my h-cost buddies ONLY, so do NOT pass this offer on to any other lists, please, but you can pass on everything above this paragraph. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:13:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39ID5ce008249 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:13:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IC3LV013469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IBd58023843; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:11:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41906.mail.yahoo.com (web41906.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j38JOFQx088781 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:24:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 9305 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2005 19:24:10 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=j4Nsvnhruvony1fVv8PHuTow1K33sgsJbVBA0OrurL29rwNIoltyJHB6KMjt1uJh6MQTPsceNVcUrotawgufHvMoVAR76GEBclSQ89QE21hQH3hUczIslrx11GVh6dVJO6yJZhzjNdsrHT+czqCmT14xK1qZvd1YUV80lkMjWSo= ; Message-ID: <20050408192410.9303.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.114] by web41906.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:24:10 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:24:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eyelets vs. grommets and pet peeves..... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I really appreciate that I have been pointed to the archives however thus far my attempts to get there have been unsucessfull. When I first logged on and was suggested I go there I tried.. but my computer keeps wither not finding the right areas/pages or times out before it can load.... any suggestion would be greatly appreciated! I do hate to bug people about menial, simple stuff.... Thanks Satine Robin Netherton wrote: On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Lady Satine wrote: > AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so cliquey > with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right now???? It > appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some > of the old guard. Just asking! ! I didn't see any cliquishness myself, but then I'm used to the ebb and flow of the list postings. Very general questions can be very hard to answer; many of us have specialties and will generally answer questions only in our "comfort zone." I don't have a whole lot of time for posts, and when I do write, it tends to be on the long side, so I stay out of a lot of topics unless they're in my specialty area and I have something to add that no one else has mentioned. It's also assumed (unless you state otherwise that you have a different goal) that if you ask how something is done, you want to know the historic method. And it's also assumed that you know and are using the correct terms for things unless you indicate you're not sure. It also helps to remember that a large number of people here are not in the SCA, and the list covers all periods, not just medieval. In other words, people will answer based on what they believe your question to be, which many not be what you meant if you didn't provide sufficient detail on your project or if you used terms in a way that aren't generally known. Sometimes we get a question like "Is cotton OK for a gown?" On an SCA-based list, where everyone knows your goals, that might be answerable. Here, if you get anything at all, it will be a bunch of other questions trying to delineate what you need -- what period? what place? what do you mean by gown? how authentic do you want to be? where will the costume be worn? and so on. That's not meant as criticism or crankiness; it's that there's SO many possible answers we can't help you till we know what you want. And truly, if people point you to the archives for something, it's because we've had long and fruitful discussions over the topic. Something like "Are princess seams period?" may sound to you like it could be answered in a word, but it's a surprisingly complicated topic, and people here have written volumes ... and are not particularly eager to hash it all out again. There are some people who don't find this list to their taste because they don't enjoy the complicated answers and broader historical outlook. If that's the case, then you might be happier with one of the two SCA-Garb lists or one of the many period-specific lists. Each serves a different purpose, and not all will be useful to everyone. If you do stay here, though, I can guarantee you'll learn things you won't learn elsewhere. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:17:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39IH0kF008271 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:17:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IGALV013875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IG9K4026873; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:16:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38Jb55W000633 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:37:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03567 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:51:49 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:51:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20050408191236.5835.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: several messages X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, Lady Satine wrote: > I have been asking how to get to the archives arround here I am unable > to do so as of yet. The archives are kept by a volunteer in monthly units, and tend to be some weeks behind. You'll find directions to the archive site on the main info page for the list (which is noted at the bottom of all posts): http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > I do not mean to offend anyone or pick fights that is not my intent > not in the least! I can't imagine anyone thought that was the case. Don't worry. > Did not know that site existed, When I asked a friennd about > elizabethan I was referred here.... and told this is teh best site for > help with that subject. I will check them out too Thank you, for the > suggestion! There are two SCA-Garb lists; the younger larger one is at yahoo, and the older but now smaller one is on an independent server. There are also, I think, several yahoo groups for Elizabethan SCA costume. Try searching at yahoo groups to find them -- http://groups.yahoo.com > Who is Robin Netherton???? That would be me. I post a lot here. I didn't know I had a fan club till this week, though ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:20:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39IKHTC008289 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:20:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IJ5LV014071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IJ3K7028906; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:19:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38JoQ2D012374 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:50:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812B53920F for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:50:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p587.socket.net [64.85.213.80]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 03F8DD3FB for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:50:25 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] pet peeves..... Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:50:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20050408191236.5835.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA_Elizabethan/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elizabethan-Garb/ calontir-late@yahoogroups.com Usually, if you go to the "find a group" spot on the yahoo groups page and type in you will get several groups. Not all SCA related but informative. De -----Original Message----- Aspasia, Did not know that site existed, When I asked a friennd about elizabethan I was referred here.... and told this is teh best site for help with that subject. I will check them out too Thank you, for the suggestion! Who is Robin Netherton???? Satine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:23:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39INC8N008313 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:23:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IMGLV014290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:22:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IMDV5030927; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:22:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38K0YpY020752 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:00:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 739A0397DD for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:00:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p587.socket.net [64.85.213.80]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 987A5D3FB for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:00:32 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] pet peeves..... Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:00:30 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20050408194140.56966.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Same here and you do the same! :) De -----Original Message----- Its friday.... Sunny and WARM...... Have a great weekend everyone! Satine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:25:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39IPebd008324 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:25:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IOmLV014530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:24:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IOmJE032652; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:24:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38K8Qs0027384 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:08:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.176] (p16.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.176]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j38K5Xp10274 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:05:33 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Quick Dyeing question Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:16:18 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You can use Rit. It works very well on silk. Sylrog On Apr 8, 2005, at 1:34 PM, Catherine Kinsey wrote: > I need to dye some of those silk scarves from Dharma trading company. > Could someone who has done this before drop me an email? I'm wondering > if I can just use Rit dye. > > Thanks, > Catherine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:25:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39IPxfB008333 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:25:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IOfLV014510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:24:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IOcNK032549; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:24:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IOZSZ032513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:24:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j39IIFmT021105 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:18:15 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42581DE2.4070805@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:24:34 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: several messages References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >>Who is Robin Netherton???? > > That would be me. I post a lot here. I didn't know I had a fan club till > this week, though ;-) Shows what you know! I promise I won't make any clever T-shirts that say "Robin Netherton Fan Club" at CafePress, though. ;) Satine, the quick answer is that she has lots of good thoughts about medieval clothing, plus she sometimes lectures for re-enactors and interested people around the US, so some of us have spent a day in a classroom listening to her, as well as on this list. For costume junkies, it's a great experience. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:28:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39IS0hf008344 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:28:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IQxLV014684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IQwfJ034088; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:26:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38KgP4O056935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:42:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j38KgHbb009794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:42:17 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j38KgHio009788; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:42:17 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) X-Authentication-Warning: webmail.io.com: www set sender to chiara@io.com using -f Received: from 12.37.59.1 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:42:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <39770.12.37.59.1.1112992937.squirrel@12.37.59.1> In-Reply-To: <4256E4B5.6040401@thibault.org> References: <20050408190726.79550.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> <4256E4B5.6040401@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:42:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to find the Archives for searching From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on webmail.io.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you want the zipped files of the early ones that are UNEDITED you can get them here. ftp://io.com/pub/usr/ches/ > Lady Satine wrote: > >> I have been asking how to get to the archives arround here I am >> unable > to do so as of yet....Would you be able to guide me on how to get to > the > archives????? > > I wonder if your message asking about the archives got eaten by the > server, as it does sometimes? > > They're at: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:31:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39IV2A2008368 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:31:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IUBLV014898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:30:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IU8tp036387; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:30:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41905.mail.yahoo.com (web41905.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j38LVvpq000673 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:31:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 21923 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2005 21:31:52 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=J73ttPR+92+9rrBd/8v1aMxhJAoDn8xhObSl7YnAdFDNJw3Ga0/W7LW3MuDJxly4RCZpKzweVJmKLACHIigzcj/mdTzcT0igcYfAGuJQ0DADxioTiSrINOml2F0V9rQS4AQT1X7joBj1hJUHgRMfYSy04HcVCm0xZMu7i4RGcVo= ; Message-ID: <20050408213152.21921.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.114] by web41905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 14:31:52 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:31:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Eyelets vs. grommets and pet peeves..... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As Stated Before I was Initially misinformed! By reading I figures that out! I have learned a ton of Not SCA stuff here! and that is great too! otsisto wrote: A small note, SCA covers pre - dark ages to Renaissance. But yes the list covers periods beyond 1600. So though there is a large number of people listed, not all are pre 1601 experts. :) De -----Original Message----- It also helps to remember that a large number of people here are not in the SCA, and the list covers all periods, not just medieval. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:33:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39IXhG1008387 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:33:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IWnLV015045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:32:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IWmcQ038083; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:32:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38MoKVT070858 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:50:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005040822501501400lqktme>; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:50:15 +0000 Message-ID: <003c01c53c8d$56a3d540$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050408194140.56966.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet peeves..... Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 18:50:18 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm... never thought this list was focused too much on SCA. I remember years ago in the introduction to the list or summary was that this list was not geared toward any certain group. Is that intro still out there? Its been a long time since I joined. The topics and periods seem to float around. That's what I love about h-costume! It is very diverse. As for lack of answers... this list is not as active as it was years ago. But I have noticed this on all costume/fashion history lists that I am a member. A lot of the chatter email lists is slowing down. This list used to have around 700-800 members. I think the last time Eliza said it was a lot lower number. Years ago, people left the list because of the vast amount of emails a day. Haven't heard that complaint in the past few years... except for our beloved Teddy. But that is not his fault... the boss doesn't like the volume of mail. I also think the lower membership is because when this list started it was one of the only costume related email lists. Now there is an email list for about every topic in costuming. Some people lurk instead of asking questions. And some people are intimidated to ask a question. OR someone is quick to answer a question before others. Once in a blue moon we used to have a Lurker's Day on the list. This was when all the lurkers came out on the list and talked while all the regulars were quiet. We have meet a lot of wonderful people that way. I have noticed over the years quiet seasons on the list... summers some members are busy re-enacting or vacations, costume-con time, August is generally slow, the week before and after Halloween, December holidays. I have noticed during the Northern Hemisphere cold months, Jan-Mar. are the most active. Hey, what else do we have to do when it is cold! I do think there needs to be some sort of protocol on how to ask a question. It is very hard to answer a vague or very general question. Then ten people ask for the question to be more specific. And sometimes list members just don't know the answer... believe it or not! It doesn't mean that we aren't interested. I, too, have asked questions and didn't receive an answer. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:40:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39IeCg6008420 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:40:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IdELV015509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:39:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IdBLo042120; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:39:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav5.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.77]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j38NT5ZB001513 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:29:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:29:00 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by BAY106-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 23:29:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8C7098FBFAA29D8-BB0-1103D@mblk-d20.sysops.aol.com> <4255FBC7.3040400@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 19:29:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2005 23:29:00.0579 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE50DF30:01C53C92] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I second Kimberly's opinion. I have a fancy Viking that I hate. I love my >1969ish Kenmore and my two very old singers. They sew beutifully. The >latter two sew are able to sew such tiny little stitches, that I needn't >back stitch to secure a seam....love that! And I have a fancy Viking that I'm totally in love with. (It's a Lily 555) Stronger than my mom's old Pfaff (and that was a good machine), precise, not fussy. Can take any kind of thread and sew through thick stuff. I haven't had a problem with it yet. For the price the original poster was willing to pay though, she's better off with a non-electronic machine. A good quality used one would be perfect, I think. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:47:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39IlBQ2008472 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:47:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IkHLV016079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IkEne046880; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:46:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j398e714052064 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 02:40:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E60AC3951F; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 03:40:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p358.socket.net [64.85.215.104]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C1785C43D; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 03:40:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "SCA Garb" , Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 03:40:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Interesting pics X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/altdorfe/p-altdorf2.htm http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/altdorfe/p-altdorf5.htm http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/altdorfe/p-altdor12.htm http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/altdorfe/p-altdor13.htm Is the red an apron or a skirt? The right side of her bodice, is that a seam? http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/bruegel1/p-brue1-14.htm Far right, cream outfit shows side sleeve seams http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/c/p-campin5.htm Someone was asking about veils and pins. http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/caravagg/p-carava13.htm The woman on the right looks like the dress is made of leather. http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/caravagg/p-carava24.htm the old woman has a great expression. http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/carpaccio/p-carpaccio5.htm http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/cranach1/p-cran1-12.htm http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/cranach1/p-cran1-30.htm Lyse _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:47:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39IlpPs008479 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:47:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IkwLV016146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:46:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IkwrR047351; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:46:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IkRBu046960 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:46:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from osmanthus@comcast.net) Received: from win98 (c-24-218-29-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.29.62]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20050409184621013000jh4ce>; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:46:21 +0000 Message-ID: <002701c53d35$4ffb7dd0$6601a8c0@win98> From: "Amy Butler Greenfield" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6856659.1112903969518.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:52:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ruth Anne wrote: >>> As an instructor of writing, I just have to say that your webpage on cochineal dying was not only fascinating but also a LOVELY piece of writing! I'd love to show it to my students as an example of a "process essay" that beautifully melds instruction and literature. <*blush!*> Ruth Anne, thanks so much for your kind words! I wanted the essay to convey the experience and pleasure of dyeing as well as the technical details about the process, so I couldn't be more pleased by your praise. Please feel free to show the essay to your students. I'm delighted you enjoyed it. Amy Amy Butler Greenfield http://www.aperfectred.com cochineal@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:48:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39ImNYI008486 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:48:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IlZLV016210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:47:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IlZwj047754; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:47:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IlX5N047706 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:47:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13110 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:02:27 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:02:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] well that's frustrating In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20050409110306.00ba11b8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 9 Apr 2005, Mari Stewart wrote: > OK... the test made it through... but my thoughtful, inspriational, > funny, and filled with common sense reply to Satine didn't. Grrrr. > So on the "pet peeves" thread... all I can add at this late date is > ... 'yeah - what they said.' I believe I saw it today, with the dump of delayed messages. Clearly something is going on at the list-server end. Possibly a screwed-up address or two somewhere in the sequence that's making the server cough. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:49:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Inhmf008494 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:49:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39ImoLV016335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:48:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39ImoFH048725; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:48:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j39BAk1d048094 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 05:10:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 22538 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Apr 2005 11:10:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20050409111040.22536.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 12:10:40 BST Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:10:40 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: medieval sleeves etc. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The two "Birth of the Virgin" ladies have decoration >on the outside of their sleeves. Referring back to a >previous discussion, could these be covering seams? >The one on the far left appears to have a seam, but >it could be the way the decoration is painted. >Suzi Hi Suzi - I personally read the 'bands' on the crossed arms of the lady in the darker dress as buttons running along from wrist to elbow... It's an amazing dress though - I've only seen this one like it and the decoration's beautiful. Just my own guess, Susan Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:52:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Iq8Qw008509 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:52:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IpALV016572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IpAPa050326; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:51:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39CZqqL099818 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 06:35:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id a41so893934rng for ; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 05:35:52 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=FblYZVJUSwynygyRTGr/L57iIbJDga+WMXQj1bp/a5B+NXoEbZpp82NrJQqWXkb/CNkFJ8wPhhLr1FfszmCb16wTCqFsyZkpaDaP5F2Bl5Qj6orI4XfPzy9X+oSUOC8rTTPC36cBQrKQg4Fosu+hPOGMC1OxIupqXsaU4pYSJWM= Received: by 10.38.207.30 with SMTP id e30mr419250rng; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 05:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.67.72 with HTTP; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 05:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 08:35:52 -0400 From: Bonnie Booker To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet peeves..... In-Reply-To: <20050408191236.5835.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20050408191236.5835.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Did not know that site existed, When I asked a friennd about elizabethan I was referred here.... and told this is teh best site for help with that subject. I will check them out too Thank you, for the suggestion! Who is Robin Netherton???? > A charming lady who studies, writes articles, and teaches about costume. I sat in on several of her 15th c. classes at the Known World Art/Sci Symposium in Orlando, FL. She doesn't just say something is so, she shows you examples and explains why. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:52:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39IqeqX008513 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:52:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39IprLV016623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:51:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Ipopg050753; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:51:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IpmV0050711 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:51:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13170 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:06:43 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:06:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: several messages In-Reply-To: <42581DE2.4070805@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 9 Apr 2005, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > That would be me. I post a lot here. I didn't know I had a fan club till > > this week, though ;-) > > Shows what you know! > > I promise I won't make any clever T-shirts that say "Robin Netherton Fan > Club" at CafePress, though. ;) Whew! Though I admit to a rather loud peal of laughter at reading that... (I will cherish the sentiment, and that's quite enough of an ego boost. I'm sure that if anyone *did* wear such a thing, someone would claim I'd put them up to it.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 14:58:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Iw5PW008552 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:58:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39Iv5LV016920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:57:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Iv20S054004; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:57:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39CrooL011558 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 06:53:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A0553FF00E2; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:53:41 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.103 ([209.131.81.103] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 9 Apr 05 12:53:40 -0000 Message-ID: <002b01c53d03$62c067a0$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Quick Dyeing question Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 08:55:18 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dharma seems to have some of their silk dyes on Quick sale...No, I have not tried to dye mine yet, with silk dye or Rit. Waiting to get inspired... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 3:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] Quick Dyeing question > I need to dye some of those silk scarves from Dharma trading company. > Could someone who has done this before drop me an email? I'm wondering > if I can just use Rit dye. > > Thanks, > Catherine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 15:02:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39J2B5e008594 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:02:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39J18LV017127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:01:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39J17lD056868; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:01:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39G9RXU041049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:09:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j39G37mT019600 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:03:07 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 12:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4257FE35.8060303@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 12:09:25 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dylon dye stripper - effective! References: <$GaZnzDDJDVCJwVn@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > Pretty cool, isn't it? Unfortunately, it doesn't work on most industrial > dyes, i.e. if you bought the fabric already dyed, most of the times it > won't do much more than make it a slightly lighter shade. I didn't know that -- but I used it on some army-green cotton uphostery fabric which had a great fleur-de-lys woven pattern, and it turned antique gold. I was very pleased. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The World Health Organization is campaigning to reduce the numbers of women and babies who die during pregnancy and childbirth. Each year, half a million women die in pregnancy and four million newborns do not survive more than a month. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 15:05:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39J5B7c008619 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:05:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39J4ELV017322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:04:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39J4AoN059012; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:04:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts5.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.163]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39GLJc5048595 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:21:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([65.92.205.247]) by simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050409162114.XYZH1614.simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:21:14 -0400 Message-ID: <002b01c53d20$14cdb300$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20050409071443.025bb468@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing Breakdance ? Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:20:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Can anyone point me in the direction of any studies on the clothes > >culturally associated with break dancing please ? > > > >In particular their origins, ie historic precedents. Breakdance first showed up in the 1980's amongst the street kids of New York (if my faulty memory is correct) I would search out fashions from that time, old rap and hip hop groups (Run DMC comes to mind), and news articles from the 80's. Just my two bits.. Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 15:08:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39J8wXM008654 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:08:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39J82LV017853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39J80lc061990; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:08:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39I9hEC022515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:09:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j39I3LmT020999 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:03:21 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:03:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42581A64.4010403@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:09:40 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye remover question References: <000001c53c3a$cda17f10$19542fd8@Sandra> In-Reply-To: <000001c53c3a$cda17f10$19542fd8@Sandra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sandra Olsen wrote: > I now have four yards of faintly pink linen. Have you washed it again, just in case? I'd probably try either a "dye magnet" sheet or the dye remover. Neither will take much effort or cost, and then you'll know if you really need to try bleach (rougher on the fiber) or overdye. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 15:11:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39JBmDS008670 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:11:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39JAuLV018053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:10:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39JArkP063823; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:10:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39IK4Vw029659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:20:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j39IDhmT021063 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:13:43 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42581CD2.8090606@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:20:02 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20050408192410.9303.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050408192410.9303.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Archives problem X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lady Satine wrote: > I really appreciate that I have been pointed to the archives however > thus far my attempts to get there have been unsucessfull. When I > first logged on and was suggested I go there I tried.. but my > computer keeps wither not finding the right areas/pages or times out > before it can load.... That's a puzzle. The page is all text, so it should not take long to load. Are you using an odd browser or operating system? What are the specific error messages that you are getting? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 15:14:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39JEnil008693 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:14:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39JDqLV018259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:13:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39JDmIp065758; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:13:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39ItrT7053319 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:55:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13221 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:10:48 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:10:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: several messages In-Reply-To: <42581DE2.4070805@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO BTW, Cynthia, what's your cafepress URL? I haven't looked at it in a while and can't find it now. (Maybe I should make up t-shirts that say "I survived Robin Netherton's lectures" for the people who make it through one of my marathons...) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 15:21:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39JLpea008717 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:21:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39JKfLV018737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:20:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39JKc7V070255; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:20:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39JKZOG070224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:20:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j39JEEmT021801 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:14:14 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 15:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42582B01.5060506@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 15:20:33 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: several messages References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > (Maybe I should make up t-shirts that say "I survived Robin Netherton's > lectures" for the people who make it through one of my marathons...) http://www.cafeshops.com/virtueventures For those of you who are not aware of it, anyone with a digital photo or image that isn't under someone else's copyright can make mugs, t-shirts, clocks, etc. via CafePress. It's fun. You can also do just text or slogans. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 15:44:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Ji70q008791 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:44:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39JgoLV020413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:42:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Jgge1084830; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:42:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41907.mail.yahoo.com (web41907.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j39Jgf9s084749 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:42:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 21837 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Apr 2005 19:42:36 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=2GeDWPcnDoWR6pTFpIfOJ7Hec8FA+nJQ0g8nQ5QmI5f4amQsHFodrI1mDfesyNog/yiWW1I6Afvj0o7XfjH/NflRPfr5KRNaVPX3Kdm+U4Lj48HUO+buH/xjQVrFYHvQjLqnYist441gkamZDSrc5N0gj3DeuQ1p6Xku/FP9Amc= ; Message-ID: <20050409194236.21835.qmail@web41907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.115] by web41907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 12:42:36 PDT Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:42:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet peeves..... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thats what I need Guidance and explanations so I am better armed and do not get people whose pet peeves I do not know about ruffled! Bonnie Booker wrote:> > Did not know that site existed, When I asked a friennd about elizabethan I was referred here.... and told this is teh best site for help with that subject. I will check them out too Thank you, for the suggestion! Who is Robin Netherton???? > A charming lady who studies, writes articles, and teaches about costume. I sat in on several of her 15th c. classes at the Known World Art/Sci Symposium in Orlando, FL. She doesn't just say something is so, she shows you examples and explains why. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 15:57:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Jv2jU008838 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:57:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39Jt4LV021379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Jswhk092783; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:54:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39JstO2092743 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:54:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DEE33B99A for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:54:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t3p213.socket.net [64.85.220.215]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id ED1BCD404 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:54:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] test Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:54:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20050409105609.01c608b0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My email reply on Medieval gowns that I sent Thurs., showed up today (Sat.) De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 16:18:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39KIlce008967 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:18:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39KHcLV023742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:17:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39KHTIr007889; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:17:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41905.mail.yahoo.com (web41905.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j39KHPXW007779 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:17:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 13475 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Apr 2005 20:17:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=ZY+nJbBIOKnJvvMB4VLhZV4HGWmSvOU87uxjyd0HSby7ZcngBSP88lCoEjh3Gf8/R2riQa9eK/oCbppXQnUJSeHKaFVljGFBdEbLyRYu2pdbUo0jGSWEmP041p2FlZFRqS1yD0pxwzwDzu4AXxid6C+Y8Gq21UIiOjiUF/HIfXA= ; Message-ID: <20050409201720.13473.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.115] by web41905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 13:17:20 PDT Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:17:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet peeves..... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I do appreciate everybodys input to my asking about crankiness and pet peeves...... As stated in a previous e-mail... That many may or may not have gotten yet. or may get again...LOL... I have been gtting my nose out of joint and trying ot ask why. the only way I know how to be blunt and not sugar coat things! I thank the ladies that gave me the right way to get to the Archives. I can get through and have gone back to the begining to read them and get answers there . I am also waiting on teh SCA garb site for apprpval so thank you (Forgetting names this week) I apologize. As stated in another wayward post. I was told by someone in sca this was the best SCA site for help with garn espeially elizabethan ( I was obviously misinformed) on the part that this is a sca site. I do undertand it is for all levels of costuming/recreating /re-enacting Did I miss anyone??) I was just ill advised and had pre concieved notions myself as what to expect! I want to thank everyone who has helped explain the Dynamic of this board. I appreciate it! I would rather ask, open myself up and discuss what goes and wht does not thatn just leave the board when it is such a wonderful resource about so many things! Thanks Again Everyone! Satine, M Stewart wrote: >AS for the petty pet peeve stuff.......Is this list usually so cliquey >with new membersw or is everyone having a bad time right now???? It >appears that Novices are not wanted and will not be tollerated by some of >the old guard. Just asking! >! Hey Satine... Well yes, and no. This list is for historical costumers, any and all. Many of the folks on this list are professional costumers or trying to become such. The list isn't just SCA - although quite a few of us are or were active at some point. You'll hear more about crinolines and Civil War era at some times... and others it's all 12th century. Then there are the confections that Bjarne creates - always worth an "ooooh pretty" - but very not SCA. And there is a "language" to the list, just like you'll find in any community. Don't take a question or a clarification as a rejection or as a dismissal... We're just trying to communicate. And part of that is learning how each other uses specific terms. I got my fingers smacked the first time I posted - can't remember by whom... it doesn't matter. What does matter is that these folks are a great source of information and experience. So I came back for more. And have since then learned, and maybe contributed a bit. There are some very strong personalities on the list, but not a one that I would call "seeking to crush newcomers" - so be welcome. Pull up a chair. Mari (aka Bridgette) Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 16:27:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39KRq0f009009 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:27:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39KR0LV024605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39KQtYR013907; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:26:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41906.mail.yahoo.com (web41906.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j39KQqTL013816 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:26:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 45396 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Apr 2005 20:26:47 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=cCT5wF2bCOX7a3Oha5x3Ku432HlJatBdBMT2uscAAu67SDCqc7bAFXcnQfd36/TosIUfipQa8inqFM2GtBLAoxLiH+ziZ3hzDoOHDoFYgZrdbzD5pbDG/DwrdGgRfz7Fs1/+kqUG/H6U+xNG68OVbpjv+Q4mECRwAXGPKp4nxcE= ; Message-ID: <20050409202647.45394.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.115] by web41906.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 13:26:46 PDT Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:26:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well the old group I was appart of for 8 years, have goten better.. the do criticize and Fondle and tear appart any attempt of a newbies garb.... They have gotten better and I have gone to Visit that old group now I am able to laugh at them. It has taken a long time. but ther ya have a chunk of satines experiences...... Adele de Maisieres wrote: Lady Satine wrote: >Hmmmm Princess seams are not period, Tehy are modern.... I have been scolded by many a Laurel about this...However I have been told by other Laurels as Long as its not an A& S project its fine....What does anyone else think????? > > For some value of "OK". Once again, there are no set standards. No one is going to ask someone to leave an event because their seams aren't right. It boils down to how devoted you are to period construction methods. My personal feeling is that by and large, princess seams are a waste of time and fabric, since they aren't a period method, don't give a period look, consume more fabric than period methods, and require additional sewing (a few garb styles excepted, of course). And I don't even enter A & S competitions. But I'm not going to stop _you_, and nether is anyone else, so you just need to decide what you're happiest with. > >Metal Grommets from todays standards are not period... to get arround this I have seen People sew arround the Grommet to hide the Shiny metal thing.... I would use Grommets and not Eyelets because eyelets pull out easier than Grommets.... I have Heard that Hook and Eyes are period... I am lookng into that..... > > Essentially correct. Actually, my eyelet covering is about 1/3 motivated by a desire to cover the shiny thing, and about 2/3 by a desire to stop the shiny thing pulling out. Large grommets are just naff. >I have a dozen reasons I do not like that pattern it looks costumey to me even with amazing fabric...and tallented seamstresses..... . but that is my humble opinion..... > > I heartily concur. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 16:29:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39KTe8D009023 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:29:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39KSoLV024787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39KSoh5015174; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:28:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41903.mail.yahoo.com (web41903.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.154]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j39KSlkm015082 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:28:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 29718 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Apr 2005 20:28:42 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=mVYRlZGy0RM8vB9GQlwXe2fWFjMeNnTCAK+4/iwKj/fJF/tirF145qytX4gTp8e2vfDSZmZIN0//7eXoEhQCfMwKK/LKLMUgWF1jcqB52QUwJMHMIvOloy0tLTEsiYic2rh4f+zsM9OkBM4sh9PGb+Y3dV7p9VYsXQ2daGu8W9U= ; Message-ID: <20050409202842.29716.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.115] by web41903.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 13:28:42 PDT Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:28:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Archives problem To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Before yougave me ten link I was getting time out error... Like teh page takes to long to load.. but all is okay now! Thank you! Satine Lady Satine wrote: > I really appreciate that I have been pointed to the archives however > thus far my attempts to get there have been unsucessfull. When I > first logged on and was suggested I go there I tried.. but my > computer keeps wither not finding the right areas/pages or times out > before it can load.... That's a puzzle. The page is all text, so it should not take long to load. Are you using an odd browser or operating system? What are the specific error messages that you are getting? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 16:33:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39KXXkE009067 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:33:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39KWdLV025051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39KWaPN017567; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:32:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from abraxis.com (mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39KWYp3017514 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:32:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sandraleigh@abraxis.com) Received: from mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210] by abraxis.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.12) id ABDF63A60120; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 16:32:31 -0400 Received: from Sandra ([216.47.84.5]) by mail.abraxis.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:32:31 -0400 From: "Sandra Olsen" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dye remover question Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:32:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000201c53d43$3e6de5e0$05542fd8@Sandra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <42581A64.4010403@thibault.org> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2005 20:32:31.0893 (UTC) FILETIME=[41615C50:01C53D43] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What is a dye magnet sheet? I've never heard of such a thing. How do I find one? -Sandra -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 2:10 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye remover question Sandra Olsen wrote: > I now have four yards of faintly pink linen. Have you washed it again, just in case? I'd probably try either a "dye magnet" sheet or the dye remover. Neither will take much effort or cost, and then you'll know if you really need to try bleach (rougher on the fiber) or overdye. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 16:43:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Kh7KX009113 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:43:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39KgALV025916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Kg7x2023748; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:42:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41908.mail.yahoo.com (web41908.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j39Kg6Vr023652 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:42:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 72630 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Apr 2005 20:42:01 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=yhPyHwWT3W+jXEHk764/5xW9aUITY+LOmfR/Twc8YInmI41PYIuZAl36mYCD+H+7QElu8Gtt9RUSLqhqblhyFGlONQDJ1QkQse36iMw9ky/Z78Atyh6kXuu+E4swoaQyXIdx7JQ2XkG+DJvYBBjxsQ7oyA+FIJNw5u76NJoR3g4= ; Message-ID: <20050409204201.72628.qmail@web41908.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.115] by web41908.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 13:42:01 PDT Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:42:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing Breakdance ? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I do not know of any studies doen on the subject but the movies Breakin' and Krush Grovin. are movies about break dancing and quasi Cult classics of teh 1980's also if you can find old album covers for early reap groups liek Whodini, Run DMS, Fat Boys, Kurtis Bow, anyhing what woudl be considered "Old School" pre "Gansta garbage" or possibly the Ghetto Music, movement in the 1980's I suggest the 1980's because that is when it was the most popular. I woudl look at the movies first the are B grade at best and VERY 1980's Hope This helps Satine. Can anyone point me in the direction of any studies on the clothes culturally associated with break dancing please ? In particular their origins, ie historic precedents. Thanks Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the contents of this e-mail or any of its attachments without express consent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 16:48:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Kmh6b009158 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:48:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39KlhLV026270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:47:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39KleS2027163; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:47:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41908.mail.yahoo.com (web41908.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j39KldSb027085 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:47:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 73367 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Apr 2005 20:47:34 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=ejc+C2YFMvmKjbYNVZejMQd/q3Jear06npS6olWLP4no+/D29TbHSckBNkvUcl/gvDkbY9BBmDM45+Nf7kjifPv361AG+WjBdq8b+H40879ReqzBqLQ6x5bfGMGBqA1QnITZq0UrE5QJ0cBXVtJxEGdmtTtQxvhYyXmBTehc8gY= ; Message-ID: <20050409204734.73365.qmail@web41908.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.115] by web41908.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 13:47:34 PDT Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:47:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] well that's frustrating To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will be waiting for that reply Satine Robin Netherton wrote: On Sat, 9 Apr 2005, Mari Stewart wrote: > OK... the test made it through... but my thoughtful, inspriational, > funny, and filled with common sense reply to Satine didn't. Grrrr. > So on the "pet peeves" thread... all I can add at this late date is > ... 'yeah - what they said.' I believe I saw it today, with the dump of delayed messages. Clearly something is going on at the list-server end. Possibly a screwed-up address or two somewhere in the sequence that's making the server cough. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 16:58:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39KwuBC009210 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:58:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39KvvLV027054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:57:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Kvrkk034111; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:57:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39KvoK4034066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:57:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j39KpPmT022371 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:51:25 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 16:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <425841C5.90209@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 16:57:41 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye remover question References: <000201c53d43$3e6de5e0$05542fd8@Sandra> In-Reply-To: <000201c53d43$3e6de5e0$05542fd8@Sandra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sandra Olsen wrote: > What is a dye magnet sheet? I've never heard of such a thing. How do I > find one? I wrote that email, but I haven't used them. They're by Woolite. I have a friend who says they're great. However, this consumer spot says they're no use: http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=826442 I have a subscription to Consumer Reports online, but they don't review them. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 17:12:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39LCSpI009261 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:12:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39LBRLV027837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:11:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39LBOfh042525; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:11:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39LBIO8042496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:11:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0248.floodcity.net ([198.93.211.248]:2081 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1DKNEY-0007sm-HV for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 17:11:18 -0400 Message-ID: <425844F0.3060001@floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 17:11:12 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotton References: <200504011547.j31FlJhL062212@net.indra.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20050402024434.023304c0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <059501c5376b$4e61ae60$0302a8c0@mycomputer> In-Reply-To: <059501c5376b$4e61ae60$0302a8c0@mycomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OH wow, I have wondered for years what the origin of the term Cotton wool was and as in "wrapped up in cotton wool"? I am so grateful to finally have that question answered. thanks, Kitty glendarob@exemail.com.au wrote: > I've found that there is also cottoned finish in wools, which is often > referred to as cotton in pre-cotton-gin periods. They seemed to be > used for similar things, so I don't find that I can tell the > difference with any clarity by descriptions from the period. I've > recently replaced a lot of my 17th century bits and pieces I'd made > from cotton lawn with handkerchief linen because of my inability to > work out whether fine cotton's OK or not. I have, however got decent > references to cotton thread and cotton waste for padding (fencing > doublets and mattresses) from the MoL Textiles and Clothing Book. > > To me, it's one of the more interesting vaguarities of our historical > studies. Any input would be appreciated. > > Glenda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 17:16:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39LGqR9009299 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:16:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39LFvLV028117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:15:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39LFuip045507; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:15:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.89] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39LFsnN045428 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:15:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:15:49 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by BAY106-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 21:15:49 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c53c3a$cda17f10$19542fd8@Sandra> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye remover question Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:15:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2005 21:15:49.0456 (UTC) FILETIME=[4DA60500:01C53D49] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Due to an unfortunate combination of fabrics during my attempt to > pre-shrink some yardage, I now have four yards of faintly pink linen. > Pink is not my color, and I'd really rather have my white linen back. Do > you think that dye remover could restore it to its pristine condition? > Or should I just give up and try to over-dye it some other color > entirely? >From your post, I understand that the linen was white to start with? And you put it with red fabric? Sometimes, just washing it again will work... but linen takes stains pretty well so that would likely not be enough. I'd try with colour remover. Also, you could try with some bleach, it shouldn't damage the fabric if you don't put too much of it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 17:18:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39LI8NX009307 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:18:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39LHBLV028224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:17:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39LH8nj046325; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:17:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (cmlapp16.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.229]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39LH6ap046282 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:17:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-67-77-118-6.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [67.77.118.6]) by cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13D730305 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:17:03 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dye remover question Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:16:38 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <001601c53d49$718efb70$0600a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 In-Reply-To: <425841C5.90209@thibault.org> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j39LH6ap046282 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've never used the Woolite brand dye magnet sheet, but I use the Shout brand sheets all of the time and they work like a charm. They're especially effective the first time you wash new clothing or new fabric. However, these sheets are designed to remove excess dye that precipitates into the wash water. I don't think they'll work for the situation you described. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 17:32:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39LWq3R009380 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:32:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39LVgLV029495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39LVYrN055557; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:31:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from abraxis.com (mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39LVVv6055490 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:31:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sandraleigh@abraxis.com) Received: from mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210] by abraxis.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.12) id A9AD641F0120; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 17:31:25 -0400 Received: from Sandra ([216.47.84.19]) by mail.abraxis.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:31:24 -0400 From: "Sandra Olsen" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dye remover question Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:31:13 -0400 Message-ID: <000301c53d4b$749ee8a0$05542fd8@Sandra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2005 21:31:24.0827 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B2C4EB0:01C53D4B] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, the linen used to be white, and I washed it with some rust-colored wool. I know now that this is a very stupid thing to do, but after making a habit of washing solid-colored silk this way (successfully) I figured wool wouldn't be a problem either. Sigh. At least I didn't ruin the wool as well. It's kind of... fuzzy, now, but still good. Oh well, chalk it up to furthering my education. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 5:16 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye remover question > Due to an unfortunate combination of fabrics during my attempt to > pre-shrink some yardage, I now have four yards of faintly pink linen. > Pink is not my color, and I'd really rather have my white linen back. Do > you think that dye remover could restore it to its pristine condition? > Or should I just give up and try to over-dye it some other color > entirely? >From your post, I understand that the linen was white to start with? And you put it with red fabric? Sometimes, just washing it again will work... but linen takes stains pretty well so that would likely not be enough. I'd try with colour remover. Also, you could try with some bleach, it shouldn't damage the fabric if you don't put too much of it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 17:34:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39LYTnE009396 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:34:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39LX4LV029619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:33:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39LX4mu056520; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:33:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39LX26b056492 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:33:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.57.229] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DKNZc-0000jP-Lv for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 17:33:01 -0400 Message-ID: <010701c53d4b$aee1ead0$e5399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050406230008.56277.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com><42548195.2010900@thibault.org><42548514.6050606@paradise.net.nz> <00c101c53b1d$89d5aea0$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: Eyelets vs. grommets Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:32:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b665eed93055a90f1c4e9a853add129a4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.229 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO michaela wrote: > Now if I could get my hands on a proper awl rather than those glorified > nails sold in the local shops..... > Try a bookbinder's awl. You can get one from any dealer selling binder's tools. This link will take you to the appropriate page at Talas, so you can see what they look like: http://nt.bnt.com/talas/menu.html?keywords=awl You can also try a hardware store with a good tool selection; ones very similar to the yellow-handled one are usually by the screwdrivers and chisels. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 17:52:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39Lqbu6009547 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:52:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39LpZLV000970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:51:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Los3R067512; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:50:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39LorYp067490 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:50:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.57.229] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DKNqu-0007py-Bt for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 17:50:53 -0400 Message-ID: <01b301c53d4e$2da15b60$e5399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c53c3a$cda17f10$19542fd8@Sandra> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye remover question Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:50:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b649ef6947d736063bed35895f3409051350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.229 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I used the Rit color remover after a red rug turned some white cotton throw rugs a mid-range pink. The rugs ended up brilliant white, since it also took out some older mud stains. I think it's designed mostly for that purpose or to remove enough color for re-dyeing. I'd try it on a sample, and see what it does. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 18:38:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j39MchaF009820 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:38:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39Ma9LV004128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:36:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Ma0aS090598; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:36:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39MZwnh090574 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:35:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39MZrck002520 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:35:54 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.92.44] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-92-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.44]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39MZj5o036268 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:35:51 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050409142110.026b9060@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 15:36:20 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tudor/Elizabethan stand-up collar shirts were cut in a similar manner to subsequent folk shirts all over Europe. The whole garment was made of rectangles and trapezoids, with gussets under the armpits and maybe gussets down the sides. This is known from surviving examples of both Elizabethan shirts and European folk shirts. In the following portrait http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownChild7.jpg , an example of this cut can be seen on a body. Notice how the decoration goes straight over the shoulders, how flat the garment lies on the wearer, and how there is no gathering at the neck seam. The decoration on this shirt does just what the decoration does on surviving examples of Elizabethan shirts. I believe there was an alternate cut for Tudor/Elizabethan stand-up collar shirts, an example of which I believe is shown at http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Henry7.jpg. This was discussed in the 'pleatwork' thread recently. I believe that this alternate shirt is cut in a similar "rectangles and trapezoids" manner, and the sleeves are attached to the sides in a similar manner but much lower down the seams. I believe that all the neck shaping is done by pleatwork, and that the portion of the side seam which was above the sleeve when it was attached becomes the shoulder and side-neck seam after the pleatwork is done. I believe that the un-pleated part at the top of the neck becomes the little ruffle seen at the top. Contrast the amount of gathering at the neck seams in both examples. Notice also the little decorated V-shape at the shoulder of the Henry example. I believe this is the top of the sleeve, pulled into the neckline by the pleatwork at the neck. Another thing this "pleatwork" cut does is make any decoration originally at the top of the body piece go around the neck instead of flatly over the shoulders. In the following example this can be seen: http://www.tudor-portraits.com/HelenaSnakeborg.jpg . Notice also the amount of gathering at the neck of her shirt. I believe her shirt was constructed using the "pleatwork" cut, and a straight neck band was added instead of using the pleating to make the neck, making it perhaps a transition garment between the two cuts. I made little mock-up shirts of the "pleatwork" cut and of the "rectangles and trapezoids" cut, out of striped fabric so the grain would be visible, and both show just what I expected the two different cuts to do. The stripes in the "pleatwork" one go around the neck. It has gathers around the neck seam and it has a little V-shape at the shoulders. The stripes in the "rectangles and trapezoids" one go flatly over the shoulders, and there are no gathers at the neck seam. I'd like an opinion here. Does anyone else think my "pleatwork" cut could be an accurate one for Tudor/Elizabethan England? The costume approval person for the courtiers at my local Ren. Faire still hasn't made up her mind yet (and she still has my two mock-up shirts, so I can't scan them to show you), but at least she agrees that the "pleatwork" cut does what I say it does. What might I say to convince her that the "pleatwork" cut is accurate enough that I can wear a shirt cut that way? Neither she nor I can find any extant Ren. examples of the "pleatwork" cut, and the Janet Arnold book covering Ren. shirts is not scheduled to be published any time soon (and may not contain an example of this cut anyway). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 20:11:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3A0BH72010241 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:11:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3A09vLV010406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:09:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A09PKC049136; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:09:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A09O9n049026 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:09:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m113.in-tch.com [216.166.191.113]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j3A05Ao11023 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:05:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42586FF2.800@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 18:14:42 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval tapestries References: <42553E64.6000301@in-tch.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050407160707.014c6d40@127.0.0.1><002501c53ba8$0f7a6070$6401a8c0@AmyPC> <4255D4E1.9090001@in-tch.com> <001901c53d1c$09cdd470$6601a8c0@win98> In-Reply-To: <001901c53d1c$09cdd470$6601a8c0@win98> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't taken many pictures, although I've got the capacity (digital camera & computer). Mostly, I don't have a place to post them--I'd like to set up a web page for this sort of thing (and maybe even try a dress diary or two...I find reading them very addictive! ), but it hasn't happened yet. ;-( If I ever do, though, I'd be glad to post something about it to the list. --sue Amy Butler Greenfield wrote: > Sue Clemenger wrote: > >>I've gotten lovely reds and pinks with madder, and the most amazing >>bright, tangerine orange! (on wool...less impressive on silk) >>I'm thinking of using the orange wool to knit myself some 16th c >>stockings..... > > > I'd love to see pictures if you ever have them! > > Amy > > Amy Butler Greenfield > http://www.aperfectred.com > cochineal@comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 20:21:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3A0Lssk010271 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:21:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3A0IeLV010992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:18:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A0Ibw0054590; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:18:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A0E4wM051831 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:14:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m113.in-tch.com [216.166.191.113]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j3A0A0o11672 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42587114.3080205@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 18:19:32 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: several messages References: <42581DE2.4070805@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <42581DE2.4070805@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oooh! What a great idea! bwahahahahahaaaaa..... --sue, feeling whimsical.... Cynthia Virtue wrote: > I promise I won't make any clever T-shirts that say "Robin Netherton Fan > Club" at CafePress, though. ;) > > Satine, the quick answer is that she has lots of good thoughts about > medieval clothing, plus she sometimes lectures for re-enactors and > interested people around the US, so some of us have spent a day in a > classroom listening to her, as well as on this list. For costume > junkies, it's a great experience. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 20:39:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3A0dPEV010386 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:39:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3A0cPLV012584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:38:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A0cKi0065725; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:38:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aspirin.dii.utk.edu (aspirin.dii.utk.edu [160.36.0.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A0cGgc065671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:38:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@utk.edu) Received: from webmail.utk.edu (camel.usg.utk.edu [160.36.178.34]) by aspirin.dii.utk.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j3A0cD8T003298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:38:13 -0400 X-WebMail-UserID: sfarmer Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:38:13 -0400 From: Susan Farmer To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002252 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts Message-ID: <42BCB89B@webmail.utk.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Infinite Mobile Delivery (Hydra) SMTP v3.62.01 X-Spam-Status: Message recipients not local. X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.45 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO much snippage of Robin Netherton's commentary on bliauts. Thanks, Robin. I had often wondered how you viewed the thing ... Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Botany Department, University of Tennessee http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 20:57:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3A0vK4N010494 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:57:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3A0uMLV013746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:56:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A0uJM7075756; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:56:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A0uHog075716 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:56:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15378 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:11:13 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:11:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts In-Reply-To: <42BCB89B@webmail.utk.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 9 Apr 2005, Susan Farmer wrote: > much snippage of Robin Netherton's commentary on bliauts. > > Thanks, Robin. I had often wondered how you viewed the thing ... I try to avoid expressing my opinion on this topic, because it seems anyone with a pet bliaut construction theory will get annoyed at me. But I frankly believe the "bliaut problem" is fundamentally unsolvable given the existing evidence, and that however you read them, the statues aren't going to tell us a whole lot about actual fashionable clothing. Every couple of years, someone proposes yet another bliaut theory (as in, how to make the style of gown seen on the statues) for our sessions at the Medieval Congress at Kalamazoo. We accepted such a paper some years ago, and ultimately the presenter -- a fine researcher with extensive costume construction experience -- could only conclude that we don't have a good answer and aren't likely to get one. There doesn't seem to be much to say about it after that, so I don't anticipate we'll have any more papers on the topic unless someone digs up a surviving garment with intact seams. That's not much help to the people who want to wear the stuff, of course. For my money, though, the best way to re-create *normal* 12th century clothing is to set aside the Chartres-style statues as unreliable evidence and focus on what the manuscripts and writings tell us. You get a much simpler, more coherent picture that points toward a gored tunic construction modified by side-lacing -- quite easily consistent with the styles preceding and following, and none of the problems posed by those enigmatic bands and lines and layers on the statues. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 9 22:18:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3A2HxQn011024 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:18:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3A2GgLV020515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:16:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A2GZp1024477; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:16:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A2GSU4024321 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:16:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.74.51626221 (4328) for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:16:16 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <74.51626221.2f89e670@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:16:16 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/9/2005 2:42:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: And I have a fancy Viking that I'm totally in love with. (It's a Lily 555) Stronger than my mom's old Pfaff (and that was a good machine), precise, not fussy. Can take any kind of thread and sew through thick stuff. I haven't had a problem with it yet. I have to weigh in on the sewing machine discussion. The first machine I used was my mom's old White Rotary, I think circa 1930s. Yes, it was a workhorse. I still have it, but I need to have the cord repaired, so it is in storage. Did straight stitching only, and would probably sew just about anything. My next machine was a 1973 Kenmore. This is mostly metal, and fine for what it does, but it didn't have a free arm. Then I used my husband's mid-1970s Singer for years. It does have a free arm, but it finally got to where it would not form a decent stitch, and even sending it back to the factory did not help it. I now have a Bernina 160. I absolutely LOVE it, and I bless it every time I sit down to sew. I did have to delay this purchase several years, though. The only problem I have with it, which I'm sure all the newer precision machines share, is that it will go wonky without much warning--it seems it is usually a very small piece of thread caught somewhere in the thread channel. Unfortunately, my dealer is about 30 minutes away, but they will sometimes work on it while I wait. I've found, though, that SOMETIMES a blast of canned air will clear the problem and I don't have to take it in. It makes sense that a precision machine will have narrower tolerances, so to speak. One great thing in Bernina's favor--they make great buttonholes. And mine has the optical buttonholer which will make all succeeding buttonholes exactly like the first one. If you can only have one machine, I'm not sure what to suggest. I think, if you have $1500 or so to spend, I would go with one of the new precision machines. But if your funds are limited, I think an older, sturdier machine is probably a better bet than a new, but not well-made, one. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 00:42:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3A4gtjT011682 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:42:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3A4fXLV007537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:41:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A4fKsi009083; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:41:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A4fCTn008934 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:41:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050410044052.GCDB22141.avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:40:52 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.202.221]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050410044052.NBDD22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:40:52 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.9.5]); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:40:59 +1200 Message-ID: <00c301c53d87$7dfdc6f0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting pics Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:40:57 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/altdorfe/p-altdor13.htm > Is the red an apron or a skirt? The right side of her bodice, is that a > seam? Apron. I *finally* found a couple of images of these wraparound aprons from the back and side. The one from the side shows a true wraparound, the opeing was down the left side. I know when I first saw the images I thought they were different coloured skirts. And I have since found a great scan of Thisbe showing the fine pleats of her apron. I was most pleased. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/pyrimmusandthisbe2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/pyrimusandthisbe.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/pyrimusandthisbe3.jpg Thisbe full length, waist and hem details. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/virginandoldman.jpg Apron from the back http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/altdorferchristonthecrossbetweentwotheives.jpg this I believe shows a fitted gollar and apron over a blue gown, as this is a Swiss/German artist. This style of gollar can be seen at least by the 1520s. http://myra.hem.nu/costume/Documentation/Artist/DiversArtist.htm 2nd to last image of Anna Durer aged 22. As well at the b/w image before her of Magdalena Neudorfer. Anna is also wearing a wide belt and apron, though not wrap around. I've seen references to coloured aprons before, I just can't recall who had the information. Ahh: http://www.bellomarisco.com/smockingapron.php I'm holding off on the seam until I see a really good extremely clear scan of this painting. it could be a crack in the panel. It coudl be al sorts of things. Seams other than side seams in German art (of this time) is very rare. Even back seams are. I've been trying to work out a time frame for the disappearance and reappearance of some seams. It also seems to be a regional issue depending on how close to other countries you go. At least until the latter part of the 16thC. michaela de bruce http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 7/04/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 00:42:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3A4gtRY011681 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:42:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3A4fcLV007548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:41:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A4fcRH009173; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:41:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3A4faKa009143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:41:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0146.floodcity.net ([198.93.211.146]:2540 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1DKUGJ-0002Ji-GE for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:41:34 -0400 Message-ID: <4258AE6C.3000304@floodcity.net> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:41:16 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye remover question References: <000201c53d43$3e6de5e0$05542fd8@Sandra> <425841C5.90209@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <425841C5.90209@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Sandra Olsen wrote: > >> What is a dye magnet sheet? I've never heard of such a thing. How do I >> find one? > > > I wrote that email, but I haven't used them. They're by Woolite. > > I have a friend who says they're great. However, this consumer spot > says they're no use: > > http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=826442 Shout also makes one, and they work pretty well. My daughters uses them religiously in her baby's wash because she worries about the new things spoilng each other. She wants to be able to pass them on, or yardsale them and recoop a bit of the cost. Anyway, sometimes the sheets come out saturated with color and sometimes they are clean. but the babies clothes have never had a dye run on them. However, When we tried them on clothes which had already picked up a dye run from before she got them, (hand me downs) the dye magnet sheet didn't work, the dye stayed in the clothes. Hope this helps, Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 08:01:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3AC1SFJ027276 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:01:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AC0ILV011987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:00:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AC02lw042062; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:00:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39Li16u063098 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:44:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.57.229] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DKNkG-0005bu-Ha for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 17:44:01 -0400 Message-ID: <017401c53d4d$382d5bc0$e5399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8C7098FBFAA29D8-BB0-1103D@mblk-d20.sysops.aol.com><4255FBC7.3040400@earthlink.net> <005101c53c30$3e70be00$715183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:43:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0bc20550405acd64da02a8b6613413af81350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.229 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > And I just found a Kenmore in almost unused condition at a thrift store > for$20. It is a duplicate of my beloved of thirty years that is showing > her > mileage! I used to say that it would sew everything, including balsa > wood!! > In trying to find a new instruction book, I saw many on one of the vintage > sewing sites on the web. I must have one of the same Kenmores- I got mine in 1973 and bought it because the salesman sewed through a wooden yardstick in front of me when demoing the machine. I sewed several pavilions and about a dozen canopies on it, and it outlasted two wooden cabinets which collapsed from abuse. I also have a mid-80's electronic Kenmore and a three-year old mid-range Kenmore which I use for regular sewing. The old one is my workhorse for anything heavy-duty, since it is metal and can take all the abuse I choose to give it. Noisy as hell, but very useful- it still has the best buttonholer of all three machines. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 08:07:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3AC7KGU027306 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:07:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AC6LLV012399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:06:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AC6IJd046019; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:06:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39MVV3a087419 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:31:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.57.229] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DKOGr-0007kB-DS for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 18:17:42 -0400 Message-ID: <023d01c53d51$ecabe220$e5399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000201c53d43$3e6de5e0$05542fd8@Sandra> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye remover question Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:17:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0bd070ce742726a71a2a3c776b8f0f3841350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.229 X-DCC-SINECTIS-Metrics: net.indra.com 1114; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sandra wrote: > What is a dye magnet sheet? I've never heard of such a thing. How do I > find one? > Bounce makes one called "Color Catcher". Look in the laundry aisle by either the dryer sheets or the stain removers. This is more of a preventative measure, though; you toss it in with the wash, and it will attract dye being released from one item and keep it from coloring the other items, at least for something that's not releasing a tremendous amount of dye. The color remover is more for after the accident. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 08:09:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3AC9wN7027316 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:09:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AC92LV012672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AC9279047584; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:09:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39MWUFt088206 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:32:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DKOVC-00065D-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 15:32:30 -0700 Message-ID: <42585803.2050302@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 15:32:35 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] well that's frustrating-coughs and burps! References: <20050409204734.73365.qmail@web41908.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050409204734.73365.qmail@web41908.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have contacted Liz. She will probably respond to the list, so watch for her message. Wicked Frau wrote: Hi Liz, it would seem that several of us on the list are experiencing trouble. Messages not getting to the list at all, or showing up days later. I can tell I am not getting all messages because I seem to come in on conversations of interest and have missed several initial posts. Could you address the list perhaps and give us an idea of what might be wrong and if there is anything we can do about it? Thanks, Sg Lady Satine wrote: >I will be waiting for that reply > >Satine > >Robin Netherton wrote: > >On Sat, 9 Apr 2005, Mari Stewart wrote: > > > >>OK... the test made it through... but my thoughtful, inspriational, >>funny, and filled with common sense reply to Satine didn't. Grrrr. >>So on the "pet peeves" thread... all I can add at this late date is >>... 'yeah - what they said.' >> >> > >I believe I saw it today, with the dump of delayed messages. > >Clearly something is going on at the list-server end. Possibly a >screwed-up address or two somewhere in the sequence that's making the >server cough. > >--Robin > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Make Yahoo! your home page >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 08:13:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ACDBiJ027339 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:13:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ACCALV013007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:12:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ACC7Y6049377; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:12:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j39MZwVX090575 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:35:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39MZrck002521 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:35:54 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.92.44] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-92-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.44]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j39MZj5k036268 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:35:49 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050409141022.025ffa68@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:12:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet peeves..... In-Reply-To: <20050409201720.13473.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6667> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >As stated in another wayward post. I was told by someone in sca this was >the best SCA site for help with garn espeially elizabethan I seem to have missed your original Elizabethan costume question. What was it? I'm in the middle of doing an Elizabethan for myself, that I can wear both for Ren. Faire and for SCA. (I joined the SCA in 1971, and do other periods besides.) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 08:35:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ACZp79027472 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:35:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ACYvLV014477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:34:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ACY9qD000909; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:34:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ACXP3H000266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:33:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz@net.indra.com) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.12.9/Submit) id j3ACTBrL059615 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:29:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:29:10 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20050410122910.GA40050@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: [h-cost] note from the list admin re: delayed messages X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi - In any mailing list system, you will see some message delays. Sometimes this has to do with the mail hosts talking to each other and passing email; because mailing list messages are treated as third-class "bulk" email, they're handled on a lower priority than non-mailing list mail. Also, shorter messages can be passed faster than longer ones. You will frequently see things come in just a bit out of order. But there's another reason you might see more serious message delays, and that has to do with spam, or more precisely, the fact that you don't get any here. Checking to see if a message is spam can take .3 seconds to 60 seconds per message. If you have good spam filters on your mail, you might not be aware that approximately 75-90% of mail traffic these days is spam. The Mailman mailing list software checks every message sent to every mailing list hosted here to see whether or not the posting is supposed to be resent to the list. In addition to spam checks, it checks to see what the rules are for that list, whether or not the sender is subscribed, whether or not the address is allowed to post anyway even if not subscribed, whether the message contains anything dangerous in an attachment, strips the HTML, etc. For all the work it does, it does it in a reasonably speedy fashion. However, in the volume of all the mail it examines, Mailman has a problem when it comes across Asian characters in the Subject line. We just discovered this about two weeks ago. Mailman has a system of four "queue runners" which process the messages, and this bug causes one of the four runners to fail. Any messages that runner process was working on then get stalled, while the other three processes keep running and moving other mail. Unfortunately, this bug doesn't yet seem to have a fix - the only solution at this time is to completely stop all of the Mailman processes on the system and then restart them. My system administrator has set me up so I am able to handle this myself rather than waiting for him to do it, so you should be seeing smaller delays. In general, I'm finding I need to restart the runners about once per day, and it's probably time to ask my admin to automate this. If you do see a problem for more than a day, please let me know and I will check the system to see if it's Mailman or some other reason. Thanks, ...eliz -- Children are made up of genetics, blind luck, and the stories you tell them. - The Flying Ks _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 08:39:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ACdUBE027490 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:39:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ACccLV014867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:38:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ACcbAe003547; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:38:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ACTBE8059621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:29:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz@net.indra.com) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.12.9/Submit) id j3ACTBrL059615 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:29:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:29:10 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20050410122910.GA40050@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] note from the list admin re: delayed messages X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi - In any mailing list system, you will see some message delays. Sometimes this has to do with the mail hosts talking to each other and passing email; because mailing list messages are treated as third-class "bulk" email, they're handled on a lower priority than non-mailing list mail. Also, shorter messages can be passed faster than longer ones. You will frequently see things come in just a bit out of order. But there's another reason you might see more serious message delays, and that has to do with spam, or more precisely, the fact that you don't get any here. Checking to see if a message is spam can take .3 seconds to 60 seconds per message. If you have good spam filters on your mail, you might not be aware that approximately 75-90% of mail traffic these days is spam. The Mailman mailing list software checks every message sent to every mailing list hosted here to see whether or not the posting is supposed to be resent to the list. In addition to spam checks, it checks to see what the rules are for that list, whether or not the sender is subscribed, whether or not the address is allowed to post anyway even if not subscribed, whether the message contains anything dangerous in an attachment, strips the HTML, etc. For all the work it does, it does it in a reasonably speedy fashion. However, in the volume of all the mail it examines, Mailman has a problem when it comes across Asian characters in the Subject line. We just discovered this about two weeks ago. Mailman has a system of four "queue runners" which process the messages, and this bug causes one of the four runners to fail. Any messages that runner process was working on then get stalled, while the other three processes keep running and moving other mail. Unfortunately, this bug doesn't yet seem to have a fix - the only solution at this time is to completely stop all of the Mailman processes on the system and then restart them. My system administrator has set me up so I am able to handle this myself rather than waiting for him to do it, so you should be seeing smaller delays. In general, I'm finding I need to restart the runners about once per day, and it's probably time to ask my admin to automate this. If you do see a problem for more than a day, please let me know and I will check the system to see if it's Mailman or some other reason. Thanks, ...eliz -- Children are made up of genetics, blind luck, and the stories you tell them. - The Flying Ks _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 09:04:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3AD4OrR027686 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:04:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AD2qLV015943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:02:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AD2nMn017348; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:02:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.253]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AD2mnd017321 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:02:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DKc5L-0005gc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:02:43 -0700 Message-ID: <425923FA.6090804@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:02:50 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting pics-Aprons References: <00c301c53d87$7dfdc6f0$0301010a@michaela> In-Reply-To: <00c301c53d87$7dfdc6f0$0301010a@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Michaela! I must appologize; I am not getting all posts, so I don't know what the rest of the original question was, but this particular image has been asked about before (I think if the querier searches at either Frazzled Frau or GermanRen (both Yahoo groups) they will find some more info). I have a very high resolution scan of the first picture and you can also see a little orange under skirt/dress at the waist a few inches forward of that back-side "seam". But it becomes inconclusive as you probably can see that there doesn't appear to be any differention towards the middle part of the skirts in the back/side. Colored aprons...seems like Textiler HausRat refers to these, they were restricted to some colors (at least in Nurnburg, but then again, it would appear that sumptuary laws were just meant to be broken!) Green, red, black, gold are mentioned in a least one inventory. I have another wonderful picture of a full length white apron which appears to go all the way around. I can post a high resolution scan of the first picture if anyone is interested (and has the band width!) Sg michaela wrote: >>http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/altdorfe/p-altdor13.htm >>Is the red an apron or a skirt? The right side of her bodice, is that a >>seam? >> >> > >Apron. I *finally* found a couple of images of these wraparound aprons from >the back and side. The one from the side shows a true wraparound, the opeing >was down the left side. I know when I first saw the images I thought they >were different coloured skirts. And I have since found a great scan of >Thisbe showing the fine pleats of her apron. I was most pleased. > >http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/pyrimmusandthisbe2.jpg >http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/pyrimusandthisbe.jpg >http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/pyrimusandthisbe3.jpg >Thisbe full length, waist and hem details. > >http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/virginandoldman.jpg >Apron from the back > >http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/altdorferchristonthecrossbetweentwotheives.jpg >this I believe shows a fitted gollar and apron over a blue gown, as this is >a Swiss/German artist. This style of gollar can be seen at least by the >1520s. >http://myra.hem.nu/costume/Documentation/Artist/DiversArtist.htm >2nd to last image of Anna Durer aged 22. As well at the b/w image before her >of Magdalena Neudorfer. Anna is also wearing a wide belt and apron, though >not wrap around. >I've seen references to coloured aprons before, I just can't recall who had >the information. Ahh: >http://www.bellomarisco.com/smockingapron.php >I'm holding off on the seam until I see a really good extremely clear scan >of this painting. it could be a crack in the panel. It coudl be al sorts of >things. Seams other than side seams in German art (of this time) is very >rare. Even back seams are. I've been trying to work out a time frame for the >disappearance and reappearance of some seams. It also seems to be a regional >issue depending on how close to other countries you go. > >At least until the latter part of the 16thC. > >michaela de bruce >http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com >http://costumes.glittersweet.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 09:11:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ADBBcr027719 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:11:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AD9aLV016323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:09:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AD9YEi021473; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:09:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AD9TXN021403 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:09:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DKcBp-0006jK-00; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:09:25 -0700 Message-ID: <4259258C.2050800@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:09:32 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume , h-costume-owner@net.indra.com References: <20050410122910.GA40050@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <20050410122910.GA40050@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hi Liz, -what about the ones that just don't seem to show up at all? Was: note from the list admin re: delayed messages X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Liz, It may be part of the same problem, but what about messages that don't show up at all? I've seen this happen to my own and also can tell I am not getting all of the messages. This seems odd because others are, and are responding to them. I have checked all my filters and don't find any that are getting weeded out. I have heard several others complain of the same thing.... Thanks for your support and hard work! Saragrace. Elizabeth Lear wrote: _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 09:50:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ADo9eY027919 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:50:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AD75LV016215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:07:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AD73nJ019986; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:07:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AD71sX019885 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:07:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A4EC18000CC; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:06:52 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.118 ([209.131.81.118] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 10 Apr 05 13:06:51 -0000 Message-ID: <00ba01c53dce$65698a60$765183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8C7098FBFAA29D8-BB0-1103D@mblk-d20.sysops.aol.com><4255FBC7.3040400@earthlink.net><005101c53c30$3e70be00$715183d1@rmitchellras> <017401c53d4d$382d5bc0$e5399b04@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:08:30 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I guess that this about the age of mine. It has a free arm, can sit on a desk or table, and likewise, the best button holer (with cam) that I have used. It came with a set of 12 decorative cams. I had to get a new motor about 8 years ago, and the Sears repair man (home service) had to scour the nation to find that for me. I have had to replace the tension mechanism twice in the 30+ years from just plain overuse. What I loved about it was the fact I could sew a horse blanket repair and then a silk garment immediately thereafter with out the (poor) machine taking a hissy fit to recover from the arduous Work. I retired it about 6 years ago, buying a Pfaff Jeans and Satin. For a slightly lighter weight machine, this one has been very reliable. Two things I like about it are the fact that you can wind a bobbin without unthreading the machine, and the automatic built in double feed. This feature is great for slippery fabrics and for most vinyls. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thinking about a buying a sewing machine.... > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > And I just found a Kenmore in almost unused condition at a thrift store > > for$20. It is a duplicate of my beloved of thirty years that is showing > > her > > mileage! I used to say that it would sew everything, including balsa > > wood!! > > In trying to find a new instruction book, I saw many on one of the vintage > > sewing sites on the web. > > I must have one of the same Kenmores- I got mine in 1973 and bought it > because the salesman sewed through a wooden yardstick in front of me when > demoing the machine. I sewed several pavilions and about a dozen canopies > on it, and it outlasted two wooden cabinets which collapsed from abuse. I > also have a mid-80's electronic Kenmore and a three-year old mid-range > Kenmore which I use for regular sewing. The old one is my workhorse for > anything heavy-duty, since it is metal and can take all the abuse I choose > to give it. Noisy as hell, but very useful- it still has the best > buttonholer of all three machines. > -Helen/Aidan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 10:03:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3AE3q53027973 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:03:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AE2XLV018412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:02:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AE24iO004477; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:02:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AE2080004394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:02:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AE1vAG019268 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:01:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j3AE1vf6019267 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:01:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 65.95.9.156 ( [65.95.9.156]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:01:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1113141717.425931d592b7f@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:01:57 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 65.95.9.156 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Mennonite Dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Everyone; I have a question about Mennonite dress in Pennsylvania and Ontario in the 1850s. Workers in a museum I'm working with wear very tight and restrictive sleeves to their dress. From the research I've done, Mennonites at this time were like Quakers - they took the fashion of the day and simplified it. But would they have worn clothes so difficult to move in when they were working on the farm and in the kitchen all day? Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks, Laura -- "As long as hunger exists, peace cannot prevail." Nobel Peace Prize winner Willy Brandt -- www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 12:26:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3AGQIUU029059 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:26:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AGP3LV024234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AGOqwe071752; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:24:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav4.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AGOoGm071696 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:24:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:36:23 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by BAY106-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:36:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:36:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:36:26 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2005 15:36:23.0343 (UTC) FILETIME=[0CE98BF0:01C53DE3] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: fan club X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3AGQIUU029059 Status: RO Oh, definitely. I may not always like your conclusions but I always respect them and think you're usually right. Janet > Who is Robin Netherton???? That would be me. I post a lot here. I didn't know I had a fan club till this week, though ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 13:08:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3AH87HU029336 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:08:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AH74LV026731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AH6xUZ099478; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:06:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AH6vkQ099424 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:06:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKfte-000Jbr-78 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 17:06:54 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:05:54 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye remover question References: <20050407.155538.-300101.3.LLWatts@juno.com> <000001c53c3a$cda17f10$19542fd8@Sandra> In-Reply-To: <000001c53c3a$cda17f10$19542fd8@Sandra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was the person who wrote in. I would think that either dye-stripper or colour-run remover would work for you. Colour-run remover is a gentler version which is supposed to remove the leaked colour without bleaching the original colour of the garment, so you can return mauve back to blue, for example. But you're lucky if you just want to get back to white, on linen, you can be as vicious as you like. Bleach it if necessary. (I once washed the red skirt I had worn to the after-show party with all my cotton costumes from Carousel. I ended up with 2 pairs of sugar-pink bloomers, a pink-and-brown floral blouse, etc. Everything was successfully returned to its normal colour, except a pair of sleeping shorts which were so perfectly dyed I kept them pink for the rest of their natural life.) Jean Sandra Olsen wrote >Someone recently wrote in about the wonders of dye remover... I am >wondering if I could pick her brain, or anyone else with experience in >this arena. > >Due to an unfortunate combination of fabrics during my attempt to >pre-shrink some yardage, I now have four yards of faintly pink linen. >Pink is not my color, and I'd really rather have my white linen back. Do >you think that dye remover could restore it to its pristine condition? >Or should I just give up and try to over-dye it some other color >entirely? > >-Sandra > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 14:07:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3AI78hd029694 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:07:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AI5ZLV002316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:05:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AI5ShO042201; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:05:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AI2bHO040297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:02:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j3AI2TOr025596 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:02:30 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] MC&T Journal Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:04:49 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <4254B701.9070007@in-tch.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin (and all others), I have a number of books that are of limited use to the costumer in me, but necessary for the infoholic. That's what I'm expecting this volume to be. Something to add to my knowledge base. If I can't use it, I'll eventually meet someone who can. Regina Romsey > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Sue Clemenger > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:29 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] MC&T Journal > > > I'm chiming in, agreeing with Catherine here. The people I know of > (locally) who are most likely to buy this sort of publication may not > always be dead serious about costuming or textiles, per se, but they are > *quite* serious about doing good research. We're kind of like > borderline-academics, I guess, and some of us have amazing collections. > As an illo....my biggest "finds" on my Europe trip a few years ago were > all scholarly texts--I have the first 3 volumes of a series on Medieval > Dublin, and the book from the York Archaeological Trust on the the > Textiles, Cordage, etc. from the Coppergate digs. > My best purchase last year (with my tax refund, god bless it) was almost > 300 euro' worth of books from the Royal Irish Academy. Some > single-topic books, some collections of monographs. > This year, my finds are _Woven into the Earth, the Anglo-saxon dress > book by Gale Owen-Crocker, and the MC&T journal. Fascinating, all of > it....the sheer variety (everything from textiles to Viking ship > graffiti) is the closest I can get to scholastic heaven, I think, short > of winning a lottery and being able to spend the rest of my living days > in formal scholarly pursuits. ;-) > They're all treasures, even for an amateur like me. So I don't think > you've got anything to worry about with this journal, Robin! I'm already > drooling, thinking of volume 2. > --sue, certified bibliophile.... > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 15:58:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3AJwsgP030372 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:58:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AJvSLV009593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:57:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AJvFBR014517; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:57:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AJvDWg014493 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:57:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from [69.3.238.219] (helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DKiYT-0003WT-9u for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:57:13 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Mime-Version:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type; b=fsy0kqlpsGp58Wy1B+O3cDWnIXKwoUroEm3P572Y7JncICjnj4aI9aAkbJ5p77fX; Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:55:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d47871d827ff0926bd8789108e8b373c8f49f64f7c1610f0f535350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.238.219 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:11 PM -0500 4/6/05, Robin Netherton wrote: >That, in a nutshell, is the "bliaut problem." Maybe it's just my own psychological quirks, but every time the topic comes up, I get an itch to see a grand compilation of various people's analyses from all the data angles, as well as a critical analysis of the pros and cons of various proposed reconstructions, all put together as a reference volume to which people could be pointed. It reminds me of the "problem names" project that arose out of research and discussions by the Academy of St. Gabriel (i.e., personal names about which enough people have misconceptions or misunderstandings that it was worth creating an article addressing the issue to which people could be pointed). Problem is, Robin, you already _have_ a publishing project to take up your "free" time! For me, it's not so much an interest in the specific question of the bliaut itself, but a fascination with how it reflects and illustrates all the major issues of sources, interpretation, and methodology. Heather -- -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 16:32:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3AKWZ8B030570 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:32:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AKVYLV012560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:31:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AKVS2s036814; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:31:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3AKVQr0036768 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:31:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23122 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:46:25 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:46:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliauts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 10 Apr 2005, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > >That, in a nutshell, is the "bliaut problem." > > Maybe it's just my own psychological quirks, but every time the topic > comes up, I get an itch to see a grand compilation of various > people's analyses from all the data angles, as well as a critical > analysis of the pros and cons of various proposed reconstructions, > all put together as a reference volume to which people could be > pointed. ... > Problem is, Robin, you already _have_ a publishing project to take up > your "free" time! You bet. And I hate pouring my time into dead ends! I am very skeptical that we'll see a reasonable solution to the bliaut problem in my lifetime. Though it would be nice to not have to keep repeating oneself. And I know you're not volunteering, either, because you have a project too (or several actually that I know of), of much more constructive use. > For me, it's not so much an interest in the specific question of the > bliaut itself, but a fascination with how it reflects and illustrates > all the major issues of sources, interpretation, and methodology. That it does, and that would make an interesting paper: Defining and explaining the bliaut problem. So much of it goes back to some of my favorite areas of study -- the legacy of Victorian costume "scholarship." On a related note, though, I have kicked around the possibility of working with a friend who is a French lit expert on doing an annotated revision of Goddard with an eye to the *practical* meanings of the costume. (For those who don't know: Eunice Goddard's book summarizes references to costume in 12th century French romances. It was written for other literature scholars with the assumption that the reader would understand the rhetorical context of the references, including the fact that many of the costume descriptions are deliberately unrealistic, fantastical, or symbolic. It is good at what it does. However, costumers have picked up this book and taken it to be a straightforward summary of evidence of *clothing* in that period, which it most certainly is not. And that gets right back to some of those issues of sources, interpretation, and methodology Heather was mentioning.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 17:28:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ALSvUo030878 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 17:28:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ALRoLV016931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:27:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ALRfaH074055; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:27:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta13.adelphia.net (mta13.mail.adelphia.net [68.168.78.44]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ALRcIv073948 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:27:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from randl@adelphia.net) Received: from adelphia.net ([69.169.181.2]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.01 201-2131-118-101-20041129) with ESMTP id <20050410212732.JOPU4618.mta13.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 17:27:32 -0400 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 17:27:32 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: randl@adelphia.net To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <59874CB6-AA07-11D9-9C3C-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New York City X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all! I need some help. My friends and I are visiting NYC next week, and we're interested in good fabric stores. Not high-end, we're talking bolt-ends, cut lengths and discontinued in silk, linen and wools. Any recommendations are very welcome! Thanks in advance! Laurie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 20:07:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3B07OTv031644 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:07:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3B05VLV028642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:05:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B05Kkf075325; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:05:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B05IDC075236 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:05:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Susannah9810@aol.com) Received: from Susannah9810@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.19f.315d0921 (4012) for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:05:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Susannah9810@aol.com Message-ID: <19f.315d0921.2f8b1933@aol.com> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:05:07 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mennonite Dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a subject of interest to me because I belong to the plainclothing group at yahoo groups, so I searched on some of the past discussions of historic Mennonite clothing and some of the links that were given in posts. I found these reference works mentioned listed below; if you can locate some of them, they may be of some help to you in your research. Although the list membership focuses on dressing plainly, today's plain dressers (Quakers, Mennonites, Old Order German Baptists, and Catholics make up most of the list members) tell us little about what their predecessors wore, and whenever the subject comes up on the list to which I belong, very few people seem to be able to add much insight, but the interest is high in learning about it. The reasons they dress plainly today may or may not be similar to the reasons their 19th c. counterparts did so. Although their dress may seem old-fashioned to us, I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what it actually looked like without research. You might also try an internet search on the words "Mennonite dress" + "nineteenth century" and see what you come up with. Emerson, Catherine L. West. "Clothing the Pennsylvania Mennonite Woman in the Eighteenth Century." Pennsylvania Mennonite Heritage (April 1997), 2-19. Gehret, Ellen J. Rural Pennsylvania Clothing. York, Pa.: George Shumway, 1976. Gingerich, Melvin. "Change and Uniformity in Mennonite Attire." Mennonite Quarterly Review 70 (Oct. 1966), 243-59. __________. Mennonite Attire Through Four Centuries. Breinigsville, Pa.: Pennsylvania German Society, 1970. Hershey, Mary Jane. "A Study of the Dress of the Old Mennonites of the Franconia Conference, 1700-1953." Pennsylvania Folklife (Summer 1958), 24-47. Miller, E. Jane. "Origin, Development and Trends of the Dress of the Plain People of Lancaster County." Thesis, Cornell U., 1943. Yoder, Don. "The Costumes of the 'Plain People.'" Pennsylvania Dutchman (Aug. 1952), 6-7. __________. "Folk Costume." Folklore and Folklife. Ed. Richard M. Dorson. Chicago: U. of Chicago Press, 1972. 293-323. __________. "Men's Costumes Among the Plain People." Pennsylvania Dutchman (Easter 1953), 6-9. __________. "Sectarian Costume Research in the United States." Forms Upon the Frontier. Ed. Austin E. Fife. Logan, Ut.: Utah State U. Press, 1969. Best regards, Susannah _www.virginvintage.com_ (http://www.virginvintage.com) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 21:35:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3B1ZRFl032232 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:35:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3B1YJLV006497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:34:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B1Y6nK030808; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:34:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B1Y3nK030718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:34:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0574.floodcity.net ([198.93.213.66]:3828 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1DKnoL-0003k8-98 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:33:58 -0400 Message-ID: <4259D404.7000803@floodcity.net> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:33:56 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hi Liz, -what about the ones that just don't seem to show up at all? Was: note from the list admin re: delayed messages References: <20050410122910.GA40050@net.indra.com> <4259258C.2050800@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4259258C.2050800@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had messages which were answers to messages I never recieved, til a week later. it happens. I can't say for sure which list I had that trouble with, but it does happen. Kitty Wicked Frau wrote: > Hi Liz, It may be part of the same problem, but what about messages > that don't show up at all? I've seen this happen to my own and also > can tell I am not getting all of the messages. This seems odd because > others are, and are responding to them. I have checked all my filters > and don't find any that are getting weeded out. I have heard several > others complain of the same thing.... > > Thanks for your support and hard work! > > Saragrace. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 21:46:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3B1k8Px032262 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:46:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3B1j6LV007120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:45:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B1j30m037447; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:45:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B1j18A037306 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:45:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 67CAEA09E6; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 01:44:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust15.tnt4.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.207.15]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 73C80A09E2 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 01:44:51 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <054601c53e38$34935a50$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c301c53d87$7dfdc6f0$0301010a@michaela> <425923FA.6090804@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting pics-Aprons Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:45:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wicked Frau" > I have another wonderful picture of a full length white apron which > appears to go all the way around. I can post a high resolution scan of > the first picture if anyone is interested (and has the band width!) I'm interested! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 21:48:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3B1mRY7032267 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:48:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3B1laLV007295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:47:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B1lasZ039060; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B1lYl1039029 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:47:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 5AD7EA0646; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 01:47:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust15.tnt4.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.207.15]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A75E3A07EE for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 01:47:31 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <055e01c53e38$94e95ee0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050409111040.22536.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: medieval sleeves etc. Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:48:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "katherine sanders" > >The two "Birth of the Virgin" ladies have decoration >>on the outside of their sleeves. I completely missed this discussion--which "Birth of the Virgin" is this? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 10 23:06:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3B365op032575 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:06:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3B34vLV013951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:04:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B34rI9086533; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:04:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B34oEd086438 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:04:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.151] (pm5-151.eos.net [205.133.149.151]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j3B34d1G027444 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:04:39 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:58:03 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200504101800.j3AI0jCW038991@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: color remover X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I once used color remover on a second-hand, but originally very expensive, toddler dress. I can't remember what was on it, some sort of dye that had run in the washing machine. But the dress turned from yellow to a bilious, but perfectly even, light green. I didn't mind much, because the dress was ruined anyway. But watch out! You may get a different color than EITHER the original or the "dyed" color. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 00:22:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3B4MngX000351 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:22:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3B4LfLV019006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B4LV1q031547; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:21:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B4LToA031511 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m61.in-tch.com [216.166.191.61]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j3B4HKo10995 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:17:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4259FC8F.8070101@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:26:55 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: color remover References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Happened to me, just a few weeks ago, with a rose-colored ItalianRen gown. The sleeves had fake puffs (white cotton) that had picked up a nasty, pink tinge from something that had cut loose in a wash load. I used a color remover (the kind specifically meant for use with vagrant dyes such as this), and in about 20 seconds had white puffs, and yellow-peach sleeves. Why the remover looked at the dye in the sleeves fabric (and lining!) as a stain, I don't know. *sigh* It's not exactly a horrible color, just not one I'm ever going to be able to wear. I actually bought more remover, so I can do the same to the dress. I'll give it away to somebody, I guess, but it's annoying, as it's one of one 4 outfits I had for SCA wear. ;-( --sue Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > I once used color remover on a second-hand, but originally very expensive, > toddler dress. I can't remember what was on it, some sort of dye that had > run in the washing machine. But the dress turned from yellow to a bilious, > but perfectly even, light green. I didn't mind much, because the dress was > ruined anyway. But watch out! You may get a different color than EITHER the > original or the "dyed" color. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 00:26:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3B4QXj6000367 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:26:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3B4PbLV019274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:25:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B4PaWB033982; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:25:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B4P17i033691 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:25:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 906103BC52 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:24:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p376.socket.net [64.85.215.122]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 38A69D4C0 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:24:57 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Interesting pics-Aprons Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:25:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <425923FA.6090804@earthlink.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can see that there is a section on the right back area that is a different color than the red apron. It could very well be the skirt. Arian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 00:44:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3B4ikPg000415 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:44:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3B4hLLV020731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:43:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B4hJlO045163; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:43:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B4hCP7045077 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:43:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20nh.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.241] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DKqlU-0006j4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:43:12 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050410231945.03ba6ec0@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:29:53 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200504071801.j37I1dsE021658@net.indra.com> References: <200504071801.j37I1dsE021658@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Dr. Pepper's band X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That group was Steve and Cathy Swope, and yours truly (the both of us). It was all Steve's idea. The fourth costume was Grape Nehi (purple). Yes, we did our best to duplicate the album cover with the soda modifications. The source of Steve's idea was the fact that originally, the album was supposed to be titled "Dr. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band". Then they found out about the soda Dr. Pepper (apparently not available in England at the time) and changed the album title to avoid trademark conflicts. All the instruments were real except for the English Horn. When we first presented the costumes at Archon in St. Louis, we had a real english horn also. Before CC, the owner decided to have the instrument restored and was then unwilling to loan it out - so Steve built a prop one. Unless you tried to play it, you couldn't tell it was fake. Steve got a workmanship award for that one. Strangely enough, I got to carry the instrument that I actually play - piccolo. He also did the pull tab epaulets out of sheet aluminum, and made buttons out of original bottle caps for each soda - buying them on Ebay and then using epoxy to attach a wire shank to the backs. It was a fun group to do. Sandy At 01:01 PM 4/7/2005, you wrote: >From: Robin Netherton > >Costume content: At the Chicago CostumeCon a couple of years ago, a group >entry in the costume contest (from some St. Louis costumers, possibly one >or more on this list) was "Dr. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band." All the >close details on the suits were soda-related (e.g. the epaulets were >shaped like soda can pull-tabs). At the end of their "performance," they >turned around and you saw the logos for Orange Crush, Dr. Pepper, 7-Up, >and something else I forget, and you realized that each out fit was the >correct matching color. Even the instruments were costume props, and >beautifully made. > >--Robin "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 00:58:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3B4wfjf000479 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:58:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3B4vgLV021444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:57:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B4vcf0053356; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:57:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B4vb7R053339 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:57:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DKqzR-0001tG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:57:37 -0700 Message-ID: <425A03C8.6030103@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:57:44 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Period names for Butterfly Headdress? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi guys, anyone know any period names for the butterfly headdresses often seen in brass rubbing around the late 15th century? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 01:00:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3B50hdN000491 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 01:00:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3B4xoLV021611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:59:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B4xoim054655; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:59:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3B4xmJC054627 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:59:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DKr1X-0002I9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:59:48 -0700 Message-ID: <425A044B.4090704@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:59:55 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting pics-Aprons References: <00c301c53d87$7dfdc6f0$0301010a@michaela> <425923FA.6090804@earthlink.net> <054601c53e38$34935a50$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <054601c53e38$34935a50$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay! I will post this picture Tuesday....sorry....Monday is a lonnnnnng day for me! E House wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wicked Frau" > > >> I have another wonderful picture of a full length white apron which >> appears to go all the way around. I can post a high resolution scan >> of the first picture if anyone is interested (and has the band width!) > > > I'm interested! > > -E House > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 07:04:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3BB4l5H002415 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 07:04:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3BB3XLV013344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Apr 2005 05:03:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BB3IkK060005; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 05:03:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.225]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BB3E29059914 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 05:03:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fox3785@charter.net) Received: from mxip05.cluster1.charter.net (mxip05a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.135]) by mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3BB38CV001382 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 07:03:08 -0400 Received: from cpe-66-189-113-207.ma.charter.com (HELO familyroom) (66.189.113.207) by mxip05.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 11 Apr 2005 07:03:09 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.92,93,1112587200"; d="scan'208"; a="926664239:sNHT21580896" From: "The Foxes" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Period names for Butterfly Headdress? Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 07:03:09 -0400 Message-ID: <002701c53e86$0c2b20e0$0302a8c0@familyroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <425A03C8.6030103@earthlink.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe the henin was called the atours in the period.. The Butterfly is simply a wired veil dressing on the henin. Annette Back to lurking and reading... -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Wicked Frau Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:58 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Period names for Butterfly Headdress? Hi guys, anyone know any period names for the butterfly headdresses often seen in brass rubbing around the late 15th century? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 08:13:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3BCDJXW003566 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:13:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3BCBnLV018102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Apr 2005 06:11:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BCBfBp097892; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 06:11:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BCBd7q097807 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 06:11:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A972F600B6; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:11:30 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.125 ([209.131.81.125] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 11 Apr 05 12:11:29 -0000 Message-ID: <003201c53e8f$d4ad4da0$7d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4259FC8F.8070101@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: color remover Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:13:09 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have had the 'apparent' problem with a number of contemporary cottons. If I use bleach for brightening, or just sometimes detergent, the garment, (usually white) will turn lavender in the bath but does loose the tinge after drying. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: color remover > Happened to me, just a few weeks ago, with a rose-colored ItalianRen > gown. The sleeves had fake puffs (white cotton) that had picked up a > nasty, pink tinge from something that had cut loose in a wash load. I > used a color remover (the kind specifically meant for use with vagrant > dyes such as this), and in about 20 seconds had white puffs, and > yellow-peach sleeves. Why the remover looked at the dye in the sleeves > fabric (and lining!) as a stain, I don't know. > *sigh* > It's not exactly a horrible color, just not one I'm ever going to be > able to wear. I actually bought more remover, so I can do the same to > the dress. I'll give it away to somebody, I guess, but it's annoying, > as it's one of one 4 outfits I had for SCA wear. ;-( > --sue > > Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > I once used color remover on a second-hand, but originally very expensive, > > toddler dress. I can't remember what was on it, some sort of dye that had > > run in the washing machine. But the dress turned from yellow to a bilious, > > but perfectly even, light green. I didn't mind much, because the dress was > > ruined anyway. But watch out! You may get a different color than EITHER the > > original or the "dyed" color. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 08:22:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3BCMV6V003622 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:22:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3BCKBLV018749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Apr 2005 06:20:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BCK8PB003448; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 06:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BCK6nU003431 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 06:20:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j3BCK4DV029389 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:20:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050411080738.01b50f58@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:20:04 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: References: <4252FE08.2020102@paradise.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A new twist on the Bliaut "problem" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey there - I'm working off of Robin's reply. Here's an interesting idea. Not going to call it anything else. I might just be putting 2 and 2 together and getting 7. But I have been reading alot about the history of Northern and North Western France, and the interruption of settlement in the area that occurred in the 11th century. Yeup... there were Vikings - actually Norwegians and Danes going a-Viking in the area. And using the area as a headland for raids into the main body of France using the Loire and the (gack) the Rhone? as transportation highways. But at some point, the French King (I want to say Dagobert I, but I know that's not right) gave the Danes and the Norwegians the area that they were inhabiting, in return for their "protecting the lands from invaders" - i.e. other Danes and Norwegians. And the settlers were also required to convert th Christianity. Which they did - with gusto. And started building many many elaborate churches. So here is the question. Are we looking at a French fashion, carved in stone - but first passed through a culture that didn't wear it, and which added it's own elements of fine dress? That pleated skirt for instance? It's an interesting thought... I'm going to go back and check my dates. Because - depending on the dates, this becomes much more possible. >I personally think that the limited context for the sculptural version, >along with the obvious construction problems and the disconnect with the >fashions of the preceding and following periods, raise a strong >possibility that the images do not represent a normal fashionable garment. >They might be a complete invention, for instance the result of a certain >artistic school of decorative techniques in sculpture, or a deliberately >fanciful image used as artistic code for "royalty/saint/allegorical >figure." Or they might represent a particularly unusual short-lived style >worn by the French queen or court, perhaps as a result of a small, finite >quantity of exotic fabrics or garments brought back from Crusade, and thus >became recognizable visual style for "queen" in that period. I think >either of these theories makes more sense than assuming that this was the >"bliaut" that literary references suggest was commonly worn by nobility >over a large area of Europe for a significant period. > >But that's just me. > >--Robin >one of those "folks who write long posts on h-costume" > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 09:36:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3BDa0vw004189 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:36:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3BDYPLV027083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Apr 2005 07:34:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BDYGqX049180; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 07:34:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BDYEoi049105 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 07:34:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:34:06 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:33:58 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn, If I understand your description, it makes sense to me but yes, pics of the shirts would help. One argument you might use with your costume approval person as that wearing a shirt of this cut, and seeing how it works with the rest of the ensemble, not to mention how it feels, is another way to test it. Maybe you could get limited approval to try it out? It does not sound like it is going to look radically different from the other shirts that have more primary sources. Catherine who envies you having a faire so concerned with accuracy in costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 10:22:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3BEMa2F008911 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:22:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3BELLLV007680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:21:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BEL3oO083810; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:21:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BEIrH7081771 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29875 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:33:55 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:33:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Books and more books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was just pointed to this feature on the Oxbow site because it mentions our journal, but people here might be interested as there's reference to several other recent clothing books as well, and one upcoming on ancient clothing. http://www.oxbowbooks.com/feature.cfm/FeatureID/187/MID/7802 Oxbow goes by the name David Brown in the US. BTW, if anyone sees sites or publications that review or mention MC&T, please drop me a note. Sometimes we're the last to konw. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 11:22:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3BFMaQD009353 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:22:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3BFL9LV019639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:21:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BFL1mZ034527; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:21:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BFKwWN034489 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:20:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 009CD402EF for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id B9D2E7269; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:20:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Books and more books X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.73] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCWpXZAAZS7QEAAAAB,a1046ad477d645b00a4d756759af0b42 Message-Id: <20050411152057.B9D2E7269@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gee thanks, Robin. There goes the food budget for this week. Just what I needed - more books to tempt me. Oh well, I wanted to lose weight anyhow. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Robin Netherton wrote: From: Robin Netherton Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:33:53 -0500 (CDT) To: Historic Costume List Subject: [h-cost] Books and more books I was just pointed to this feature on the Oxbow site because it mentions our journal, but people here might be interested as there's reference to several other recent clothing books as well, and one upcoming on ancient clothing. http://www.oxbowbooks.com/feature.cfm/FeatureID/187/MID/7802 Oxbow goes by the name David Brown in the US. BTW, if anyone sees sites or publications that review or mention MC&T, please drop me a note. Sometimes we're the last to konw. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 14:35:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3BIZcfE023713 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:35:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3BHRjLV007192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:27:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BHRVNZ047414; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:27:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BHROgU047312 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:27:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3BHRMck021045 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:27:23 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.92.44] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-92-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.44]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3BHRI5u108788 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:27:22 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050411093419.0324c268@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:45:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >If I understand your description, it makes sense to me but yes, pics of >the shirts would help. URLs to the period examples I have were included in the original message. And, as I said there, I no longer have the little mock-ups to scan in to show you because our costume approval person has them. >One argument you might use with your costume approval person as that >wearing a shirt of this cut, and seeing how it works with the rest of >the ensemble, not to mention how it feels, is another way to test it. >Maybe you could get limited approval to try it out? It does not sound >like it is going to look radically different from the other shirts that >have more primary sources. Good suggestion. She might just go for that. Thanx. I'll ask her at rehearsal next weekend. >who envies you having a faire so concerned with accuracy in costume Don't I wish. It's not any Faire that's so concerned with accuracy, it's my Guild's costume approval person. I do court at a Northern California Ren. Faires, with St. George's Guild, and it's our costume approval person I'm talking about. I get the impression that other Faires' costume approval people would probably pass anything she said would go, sight unseen. But our person is a long time acquaintance of mine, and we remain on good terms because (a) I'm not insisting that I get to wear this cut of shirt, and (b) I put the question to her as one scholar asking another, and I gave her models of what I was talking about. (And (c), I have another shirt I can wear and she knows it.) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 23:31:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3C3V9Fp026644 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:31:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3C3TqLV016379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3C3TbtY035941; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:29:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3C3TYJL035845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:29:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.242.206] (acty1206.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.206]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j3C3TPiJ002548 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:29:26 -0400 Message-ID: <425B408E.5060101@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:29:18 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Eyelets vs. grommets Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Medieval gowns References: <20050406230008.56277.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com><42548195.2010900@thibault.org><42548514.6050606@paradise.net.nz> <00c101c53b1d$89d5aea0$0301010a@michaela> <010701c53d4b$aee1ead0$e5399b04@HELENPINTO> In-Reply-To: <010701c53d4b$aee1ead0$e5399b04@HELENPINTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I have used a number of items for doing the job, from an old icepick to a sailors fid. The best one that I have is a bodkin that I made from bone and copied from an archaeological illustration from the Museum of London. It (the illo, that is) was given to me years ago by the then-Director of Costuming at Plimoth Plantation. It is a multi-purpose tool, and has a point (not too sharp) and a slot at the back so that lacing can be threaded into it like a needle and passed through the eyelets. It tapers up to about 1/4 inch so that you can make a variety of hole sizes. I suppose that, if you didn't have a bodkin, a knitting needle (about a # 2 or 3 I think) suitable tapered and polished, could work. You want to push, not tear, the fibers, so working a tapered, round item into the hole should do the trick. Mike T. > michaela wrote: > >> Now if I could get my hands on a proper awl rather than those glorified >> nails sold in the local shops..... >> > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 11 23:54:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3C3shwU026738 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:54:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3C3rmLV018503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3C3rjZK052640; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:53:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3C3rhd5052570 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:53:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Susannah9810@aol.com) Received: from Susannah9810@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.13f.111b9cac (3956) for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:53:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Susannah9810@aol.com Message-ID: <13f.111b9cac.2f8ca03e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:53:34 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] awls for making eyelet holes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I use a long porcupine quill --Nancy's Notions used to sell them. It has a semi-sharp tip that separates the fibers as neatly as you please, the tapered shaft gently forces the hole to get as large as you need it, it's virtually indestructible, and besides, it's a great conversation starter if you do living history... Best regards, Susannah Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker and Fine Tailoring _www.virginvintage.com_ (http://www.virginvintage.com) "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 01:12:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3C5CWNc027193 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 01:12:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3C5AfLV024714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3C5AYua002554; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:10:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3C5AW8l002532 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:10:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-45-154.jps.net ([209.165.45.154]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1DLDfT-0000De-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 01:10:31 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:41:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:33 AM -0500 4/11/05, Catherine Kinsey wrote: >If I understand your description, it makes sense to me but yes, pics of >the shirts would help. > >One argument you might use with your costume approval person as that >wearing a shirt of this cut, and seeing how it works with the rest of >the ensemble, not to mention how it feels, is another way to test it. >Maybe you could get limited approval to try it out? It does not sound >like it is going to look radically different from the other shirts that >have more primary sources. I actually don't think the problem is with the cut, Kayta. Obviously I haven't heard the whole conversation, but from what I _have_ heard, the question is not about how the shirt/smock is cut, but about what kind of technique is used to gather the top. It seems to be clear from a number of examples that plain old ordinary gathering is something that certainly was used. It's much _less_ clear whether anything resembling the "smocking" or "pleatwork" that we see in portraits from (for instance) Italy was used in England. And if it was in England at all, whether it was used on women's shirts/smocks. I think that may be the sort of evidence you're looking for, and I don't know whether you'll find any. -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 01:12:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3C5CdO5027196 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 01:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3C5AhLV024717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:10:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3C5AgFD002644; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:10:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3C5AfGe002611 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:10:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-45-154.jps.net ([209.165.45.154]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1DLDfc-0000De-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 01:10:40 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4259FC8F.8070101@in-tch.com> References: <4259FC8F.8070101@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:07:28 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: color remover X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:26 PM -0600 4/10/05, Sue Clemenger wrote: >Happened to me, just a few weeks ago, with a rose-colored ItalianRen >gown. The sleeves had fake puffs (white cotton) that had picked up >a nasty, pink tinge from something that had cut loose in a wash >load. I used a color remover (the kind specifically meant for use >with vagrant dyes such as this), and in about 20 seconds had white >puffs, and yellow-peach sleeves. Why the remover looked at the dye >in the sleeves fabric (and lining!) as a stain, I don't know. If this happens to anybody again, try Synthropol first. Synthropol is a very mild detergent (I think it's actually used as horse shampoo :) that is particularly good at picking up "loose" dye and removing it. This means if the pink underwear (for instance) is discovered before it goes through a hot dryer, a second wash with Synthropol will often solve the problem. (Pink underwear is the classic case because a lot of red dyes are not very stable and will run even when other colors don't.) Synthropol is cheap, it only takes a couple of tablespoons per load, and a lot of art supply stores carry it, as does Dharma Trading (no connection, just a satisfied customer). It's much cheaper to buy a pint bottle of it than to spend $3 each (last I looked) for little one-wash packets of something from Rit or wherever. You can always try the dye remover later, if this doesn't work. The dye remover is pretty aggressive stuff, as you've discovered, and the results aren't always predictable. It does also weaken fabric if you use too much of it, which is why it's not advisable for routine bleaching. -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 09:48:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CDmmkK029836 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:48:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CDlXLV014770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:47:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CDlHuE030106; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:47:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CDl71K029988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:47:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-200.sonic.net [209.148.113.200]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CDl6kC004786 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:47:06 -0700 Message-ID: <425BD160.9040202@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:47:12 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Another overdyeing question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am dyeing stark white modern T-shirts, camisoles, etc. If I want a peach that is lighter, I know I have to start over with a new shirt. However, I also want a peach that is less pure and bright. And, I also have some light orange dye that when used as is might well turn out like the overly bright peach. As I mentioned, my taste is towards the rather muddy "earth tones," although I don't want to dye everything really dark. If I first dye some white garments a light ecru, and then dye peach or orange over them, will I still have a peach color but one with some of the brightness taken off? Thanks for any info. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 09:50:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CDonKs029848 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:50:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CDnkLV014898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:49:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CDnkvv032064; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:49:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.251]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CDnhfY032017 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:49:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DLLlu-0003uD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:49:42 -0700 Message-ID: <425BD202.9010508@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:49:54 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] awls for making eyelet holes References: <13f.111b9cac.2f8ca03e@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <13f.111b9cac.2f8ca03e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very Cool! Here are some places currently offering them....I think I will get one myself! http://www.basketmakers.org/topics/supplies/supquillsindex.htm Susannah9810@aol.com wrote: >I use a long porcupine quill --Nancy's Notions used to sell them. It has a >semi-sharp tip that separates the fibers as neatly as you please, the tapered >shaft gently forces the hole to get as large as you need it, it's virtually >indestructible, and besides, it's a great conversation starter if you do >living history... > >Best regards, >Susannah > >Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker and Fine Tailoring >_www.virginvintage.com_ (http://www.virginvintage.com) > >"We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 10:01:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CE1aCW029917 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:01:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CE0CLV015804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:00:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CE09uu039943; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:00:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3CE07NH039890 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:00:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-22864); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:00:07 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050412065732.00d925b0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:00:03 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another overdyeing question In-Reply-To: <425BD160.9040202@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, it might work. It all depends upon the exact chemistry of the colors. You can get all sorts of (unexpected) chemical interactions between the dyes and may end up with something entirely different than what you expect. You might want to try one item (or a scrap of the same fabric) and see what happens. Joan At 06:47 AM 4/12/2005 -0700, you wrote: >I am dyeing stark white modern T-shirts, camisoles, etc. If I want a >peach that is lighter, I know I have to start over with a new shirt. > >However, I also want a peach that is less pure and bright. And, I also >have some light orange dye that when used as is might well turn out like >the overly bright peach. As I mentioned, my taste is towards the rather >muddy "earth tones," although I don't want to dye everything really >dark. If I first dye some white garments a light ecru, and then dye >peach or orange over them, will I still have a peach color but one with >some of the brightness taken off? > >Thanks for any info. > >Fran >Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming >http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 10:04:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CE4Uo9029943 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:04:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CE3WLV016018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:03:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CE3Wpk042636; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:03:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:qcqJ1QGNC50c5IlhsEj/oB1qFIbgz0sj@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CE3SOo042568 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j3CE3RpS000781 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:03:27 -0400 Received: from dci012034013035.discovery.com ([12.34.13.35]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <56938.12.34.13.35.1113314607.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <425BD202.9010508@earthlink.net> References: <13f.111b9cac.2f8ca03e@aol.com> <425BD202.9010508@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] awls for making eyelet holes From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think Wooded Hamlet has eyelet awls - either antique or repro. You can sometimes find them at antique stores, made of bone or ivory. About 2 or 3 inches long, a smooth kinda blunt "point" at one end, and the other end is about 5/16" in diameter, sometimes plain sometimes decorated with carving or simple bands. Unless the point is broken, they are worn in perfectly and work exactly right for making eyelets. Almost like they were made for it! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 10:54:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CEsPwP030276 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:54:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CEqnLV021108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:52:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CEqdl5083717; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:52:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50410.mail.yahoo.com (web50410.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3CEqZSC083585 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:52:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 39794 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Apr 2005 14:52:29 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=URIldH2Pt7ADUc4rGcPuev3tARlTSHkSWFitcrU9iCbNsDrChl1rivNSe4GN4PL4bCCj5QhOcqJRYQX1Tj/Rmi894zc3dEsqXWVZRkO4pLKloVZWgiK3hnbtVGLox6YBUm/N9ig5BFxffwZc3hch4YQdK3tjy/KgAY9Njy5TDMM= ; Message-ID: <20050412145229.39792.qmail@web50410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.12] by web50410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:52:29 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:52:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing Breakdance ? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know a bit late here, but there were several breakdancing themed movies in the 1980's as well. "Breakin'" was one of them, can't remember most of the rest. (My SO would shoot me, he LOVES breakdancing, I was only a fringy at the time.) Wolfcat / Angharad --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >Can anyone point me in the direction of any studies > on the clothes > >culturally associated with break dancing please ? > > > >In particular their origins, ie historic > precedents. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 11:05:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CF5pdF030356 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:05:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CF4uLV022492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:04:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CF4l0G094152; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:04:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CF4a2B093952 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:04:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so302718nzp for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:04:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jikxhZ1YzNVOjGU8uGRQTjfKG3YraZ/9OfM1LBIHVq1CpmjE7h5mRQFlJvgda+V0CME4H+7Za1UpIe6JL7/PmgYcKDCkUCC+Lw2rNDFB3welNwZcFYbaLCVmdgSWaU3wX5/5a+QpHFG2LvilMMb23cSQmPOnuePRyw6g4wnC6Mg= Received: by 10.36.25.19 with SMTP id 19mr256632nzy; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.3 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:04:27 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] costume in Nice, Chateau d'If & environs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gentles, I'm off to Nice, France in a few days and wondered if any of you knew of costume collections in the area. Collections in our area of interest are hardly ever listed in travel guides unless it's an amazing costume collection. In particular, I'm interested in civil attire anywhere between 15th to 19th c. Also grateful for pointers to fine arts museums, tapestries, spiffy castles & chateaux. Thanks, y'all! --cin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 11:12:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CFCCRq030380 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:12:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CFB6LV023234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CFB3Nf099566; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:11:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CFAbIj099276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:10:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-200.sonic.net [209.148.113.200]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CFAaOC022027 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:10:37 -0700 Message-ID: <425BE4F2.8090307@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:10:42 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another overdyeing question References: <4.2.2.20050412065732.00d925b0@pop.surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20050412065732.00d925b0@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks. This may be a dumb question but: If I've dyed the garment, fixed the dye, and rinsed out all the excess, I can still get chmical reactions from mixing dyes? I could see it if I mixed a pinch of brown into the peach to begin with, but shouldn't a previous dye process be chemically inert? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Joan Jurancich wrote: > Well, it might work. It all depends upon the exact chemistry of the > colors. You can get all sorts of (unexpected) chemical interactions > between the dyes and may end up with something entirely different than > what you expect. You might want to try one item (or a scrap of the > same fabric) and see what happens. > Joan > > At 06:47 AM 4/12/2005 -0700, you wrote: > >> I am dyeing stark white modern T-shirts, camisoles, etc. If I want a >> peach that is lighter, I know I have to start over with a new shirt. >> >> However, I also want a peach that is less pure and bright. And, I >> also have some light orange dye that when used as is might well turn >> out like the overly bright peach. As I mentioned, my taste is >> towards the rather muddy "earth tones," although I don't want to dye >> everything really dark. If I first dye some white garments a light >> ecru, and then dye peach or orange over them, will I still have a >> peach color but one with some of the brightness taken off? >> >> Thanks for any info. >> >> Fran >> Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming >> http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 11:16:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CFGVSj030405 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:16:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CFFTLV024625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:15:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CFFRVF003858; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:15:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3CFFPvA003810 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:15:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-722); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:15:24 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:15:24 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050412081334.00d954a0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:15:18 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another overdyeing question In-Reply-To: <425BE4F2.8090307@lavoltapress.com> References: <4.2.2.20050412065732.00d925b0@pop.surewest.net> <4.2.2.20050412065732.00d925b0@pop.surewest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe. But you'd need to test it. Even with a "fixed" dye, there can be chemical reactions (as per the earlier discussions about dye removal). That's what makes dyeing so interesting. Joan At 08:10 AM 4/12/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks. > >This may be a dumb question but: If I've dyed the garment, fixed the dye, >and rinsed out all the excess, I can still get chmical reactions from >mixing dyes? I could see it if I mixed a pinch of brown into the peach to >begin with, but shouldn't a previous dye process be chemically inert? > >Fran >Lavolta Press >http://www.lavoltapress.com > >Joan Jurancich wrote: > >>Well, it might work. It all depends upon the exact chemistry of the >>colors. You can get all sorts of (unexpected) chemical interactions >>between the dyes and may end up with something entirely different than >>what you expect. You might want to try one item (or a scrap of the same >>fabric) and see what happens. >>Joan >> >>At 06:47 AM 4/12/2005 -0700, you wrote: >> >>>I am dyeing stark white modern T-shirts, camisoles, etc. If I want a >>>peach that is lighter, I know I have to start over with a new shirt. >>> >>>However, I also want a peach that is less pure and bright. And, I also >>>have some light orange dye that when used as is might well turn out like >>>the overly bright peach. As I mentioned, my taste is towards the rather >>>muddy "earth tones," although I don't want to dye everything really >>>dark. If I first dye some white garments a light ecru, and then dye >>>peach or orange over them, will I still have a peach color but one with >>>some of the brightness taken off? >>> >>>Thanks for any info. >>> >>>Fran >>>Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming >>>http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 11:31:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CFV0CX030527 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:31:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CFTuLV027964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CFTrqs017956; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:29:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CFToTZ017897 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:29:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gawne@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin07-en2 [10.13.10.152]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/8.12.11/smtpout16/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id j3CFTob4016944 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from UROPORTABLE (dhcp073182.fhcrc.org [140.107.73.182]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin07/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id j3CFTmu4018520 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001a01c53f74$76cc1690$b6496b8c@UROPORTABLE> From: "Agnes Gawne" To: References: <200504121516.j3CFFSUK003879@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:29:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Nice et environs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you will be going to Grasse (the center of the perfume industry in Provence, historically) there is a small costume museum with the traditional clothing of Provence. I would say most of the items are late 19th or early 20th C. There are some nice printed cottons and quilted petticoats that I remember. It was not expensive (perhaps free) to enter the museum and it was near the Fragonard museum of perfume (also interesting). There is another museum in the town that is one of the homes the painter Fragonard lived in, it was not as interesting and had no costumes, and very few paintings. The town itself is walkable and interesting. I don't recall any other costume collections in the area but there are many great art museums and medieval towns (Saint Paul de Vence, for instance). Bonne Vacances! > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:04:27 -0700 > From: Cin > Subject: [h-cost] costume in Nice, Chateau d'If & environs > To: h-cost > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Gentles, > I'm off to Nice, France in a few days and wondered if any of you knew > of costume collections in the area. Collections in our area of > interest are hardly ever listed in travel guides unless it's an > amazing costume collection. In particular, I'm interested in civil > attire anywhere between 15th to 19th c. Also grateful for pointers to > fine arts museums, tapestries, spiffy castles & chateaux. > Thanks, y'all! > --cin > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 12:31:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CGVaqd030993 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:31:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CGUKLV006450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CGU98Y074331; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:30:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CGU1jA074160 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:30:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j3CGTtKL002032 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050412122747.01e67cb8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:29:54 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <001a01c53f74$76cc1690$b6496b8c@UROPORTABLE> References: <200504121516.j3CFFSUK003879@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Nice et environs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If going to Nice... it's worth a side trip by train to Avignon. The Petit Palace and the Palace du Papes are there - great for imbibing of the Medieval atmosphere. Check their dates of operation... IIRC the Petit Palace is closed on Mondays... Mari Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 12:43:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CGh8YM031079 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:43:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CGdNLV007507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:39:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CGdJ8W083084; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:39:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CGdD73082983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:39:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-200.sonic.net [209.148.113.200]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CGdBRE018993 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:39:12 -0700 Message-ID: <425BF9B6.2040004@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:39:18 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another overdyeing question References: <4.2.2.20050412065732.00d925b0@pop.surewest.net> <4.2.2.20050412065732.00d925b0@pop.surewest.net> <4.2.2.20050412081334.00d954a0@pop.surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20050412081334.00d954a0@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dyeing is sometimes too interesting for my taste, which is why I haven't tried it for years. At least a cheap T-shirt that I can replace with an identical T-shirt (if I want to continue experimenting) is expendable. (Although I hate to throw anything out.) I used to dye vintage clothes, and also did vat dyeing during which I often could not agitate the garment well enough to get even results. A washer is way better, though of course not suitable for fragile garments. I never saw my first question posted, about whether a rust or chocolate brown would cover the peach completely. Did it ever appear, or any responses? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Joan Jurancich wrote: > Maybe. But you'd need to test it. Even with a "fixed" dye, there can > be chemical reactions (as per the earlier discussions about dye > removal). That's what makes dyeing so interesting. > Joan > > At 08:10 AM 4/12/2005 -0700, you wrote: > >> Thanks. >> >> This may be a dumb question but: If I've dyed the garment, fixed the >> dye, and rinsed out all the excess, I can still get chmical reactions >> from mixing dyes? I could see it if I mixed a pinch of brown into >> the peach to begin with, but shouldn't a previous dye process be >> chemically inert? >> >> Fran >> Lavolta Press >> http://www.lavoltapress.com >> > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 13:14:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CHEcMM031405 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:14:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CHDXLV012258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:13:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CHDJwa016780; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:13:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.primushost.com (smtp2.primushost.com [209.58.220.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3BD0KP7027943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 07:00:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DKyWQ-0005NS-KR; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:00:10 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 1DKxjX-0006BC-00; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:09:39 -0400 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:09:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Laura Morlock Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mennonite Dress In-Reply-To: <1113141717.425931d592b7f@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/819/Sun Apr 10 18:01:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 10 Apr 2005, Laura Morlock wrote: >I have a question about Mennonite dress in Pennsylvania and Ontario in the >1850s. Workers in a museum I'm working with wear very tight and restrictive >sleeves to their dress. From the research I've done, Mennonites at this time >were like Quakers - they took the fashion of the day and simplified it. But >would they have worn clothes so difficult to move in when they were working on >the farm and in the kitchen all day? Does anyone know anything about this? I know that in the 1840's and early 1850's sleeves that were quite tight would be cut on the bias, and have small gathers at the elbow, which allows better stretch and freedom of movement. Even the leg o' mutton sleeves of the 1820's and 30's were on the bias so the lower sleeve could fit tightly but allow stretch with movement. Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion I has a pattern for an 1840's dress with bias sleeves. Are their repro. sleeves cut on the straight grain? I would suspect those would be difficult to work in. Hope this helps. Katy Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 13:26:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CHQbAm031550 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:26:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CHPOLV014013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:25:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CHPK6G028864; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:25:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3C1hicN055878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:43:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-51.sonic.net [209.148.113.51]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3C1hgZw025662 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:43:43 -0700 Message-ID: <425B27D4.7030702@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:43:48 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Overdyeing Procion Dyes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I recently bought a bunch of knit tops and Procion MX dyes from Dharma Trading. I dyed four tops in the washer with their "Peach" dye. I followed someone else's instructions on the net about doubling the dye amount for washer dyeing (in 15 gallons of water). The result is beautifully even, but too vivid and too orange for my taste. I don't know if this is a result of increasing the dye, or just that this is supposed to be a brighter color than I expected. It's hard to tell from the dye chart. Anyway, I can't stand the color. I like "earth" tones (rust, moss green and other dark warm greens, browns, golden brown). Is there another color I can overdye a bright peach with to tone it down? How do you get a nice muddy color as opposed to trendy brights? Failing that, if I overdye with Dharma's "Rust Brown" or their "Chocolate Brown," will it cover the peach completely? I know I can get a color remover, not to mention chlorine bleach, but would rather overdye what I have without taking an extra step. Does anyone know if using the recommended dye amount (on some of the other tops) yields a soft peach as opposed to one that almost glows in the dark? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 13:30:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CHUE9u031573 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:30:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CHT4LV014669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CHT3ui032568; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:29:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3C7QIAf088659 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 01:26:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-85-245.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.85.245]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3C7MIbd007314 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 03:22:21 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 00:06:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I actually don't think the problem is with the cut, Kayta. I'm talking about a mid- to late-16th century English woman's shirt/smock with a stand up collar. My original contention was that there were two different cuts used, with distinctly different looks, and Shelley (the St. George Guild costume person) countered that she didn't know if the visual evidence represented two different cuts or not. At the moment the question between us is how the cut relates to those gathers at the base of the neck. >It seems to be clear from a number of examples that plain old ordinary >gathering is something that certainly was used. Plain old gathering is fine with me, and takes less time if you're going to have a separate fabric neckband anyway. When Shelley wanted me to stop using the word 'smocking', because she wasn't sure that's what technique we were seeing, I stopped using that word. But I maintain that only my proposed cut produces enough gathers at the neck seam, the distinctive V-shape at the shoulders, and the concentric rings of grain or embroidery at the neck, and the other cut doesn't. Shelley does believe that the little mock-up I made, and lent her, produces the same results as I mentioned above, and as seen in the ones in the images I posted to this list. She just says she doesn't have any evidence that the cut I proposed is the actual cut of these garments, which means she won't let me make shirts/smocks that way. I need to make a second shirt/smock for this year, and I want to make it using this alternate cut. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 13:33:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CHXM9d031589 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:33:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CHVsLV015207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:31:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CHVkex035135; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:31:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f35.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.45]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CDZDdF020832 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:35:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:35:07 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.201 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:35:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.201] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "C M" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:35:07 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Apr 2005 13:35:07.0991 (UTC) FILETIME=[714A6E70:01C53F64] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] MC&T Journal -got mine! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Robin (and others) Got my copy today! (I'm in the UK) Looks awesome and I wish it was evening already and I could go home. Got a quick glimpse during the lunchbreak, but can't wait to get really into it... Thanks! Caithlinn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 13:39:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CHdEeZ031625 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:39:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CHcALV016241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CHc47w041465; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:38:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CHI6hV022034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:18:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CHI6AG074584 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:18:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j3CHI6Ri074583 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:18:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 129.97.14.222 ( [129.97.14.222]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:18:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1113326286.425c02ce8630c@ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:18:06 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mennonite Dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 129.97.14.222 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you so much, Susannah and Katy! Your information has been a lot of help! I'm at the library right now researching those titles you gave me, Susannah. I attend a Mennonite college, so they have quite a few of those works. Katy, you mentioned there are gathers at the elbows, but what about at the armpit and shoulder? That's where they're finding the most restriction in their movement. Any more information will always be appreciated. Thanks again! Laura -- "As long as hunger exists, peace cannot prevail." Nobel Peace Prize winner Willy Brandt -- www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 13:42:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CHgQ4b031649 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:42:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CHf1LV016662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CHetov044068; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:40:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CHV2sh034260 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:31:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.146] (pm5-146.eos.net [205.133.149.146]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j3CHUr1G013584 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:30:53 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:24:07 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200504121515.j3CFFSUJ003879@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: elizabethan shirt X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kayta: I'm not sure I understand. Your costume guru agrees that the cut you proposed creates the look you see in the pictures, but she won't let you use it because she doesn't have any evidence that that particular cut was used? Isn't the fact that it creates the look you see in the pictures AND no documented cut does considered evidence? (Again, I'm not sure I understand you correctly -- no other cut does give that look, right?) We're not talking bliauts here, we're talking very detailed, accurate potraiture. To me, if it's a plausible cut and the results look just like the portrait, then that's good enough. If you had pictures of bellbottom jeans but the only extant jeans were straight-legged, then you'd have to go by the photos and extrapolate the cut, right? I understand the importance of good costume control. But we don't have extant examples of everything. To me it seems silly to stick only to the same 10 documented shirts, or whatever the number is, when your whole goal is to get a different look than the ones produced by the existing extant ones. But that's just me. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 13:44:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CHiL4P031671 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:44:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CHhILV016982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:43:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CHhEer046259; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:43:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3CHhBT3046199 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:43:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-11186); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:43:10 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:43:10 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050412103907.00d9fe10@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:43:04 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mennonite Dress In-Reply-To: References: <1113141717.425931d592b7f@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have made many a dress for 1846 with the narrow sleeves cut on the bias. I have cooked, baked, and done all sorts of work without any trouble. It sounds as if they did cut the sleeves on the straight, possibly not realizing that a close-fitting sleeve must not be cut on the straight if you want to be able to move your arms. It takes a bit more fabric to cut the sleeves on the bias (or close to the bias), but I just use the scraps from cutting the sleeves to make the self-piping I need for the dress. Joan Jurancich, Docent Sutter's Fort, Sacramento, CA At 08:09 AM 4/11/2005 -0400, you wrote: >On Sun, 10 Apr 2005, Laura Morlock wrote: > > >I have a question about Mennonite dress in Pennsylvania and Ontario in the > >1850s. Workers in a museum I'm working with wear very tight and restrictive > >sleeves to their dress. From the research I've done, Mennonites at this time > >were like Quakers - they took the fashion of the day and simplified it. But > >would they have worn clothes so difficult to move in when they were > working on > >the farm and in the kitchen all day? Does anyone know anything about this? > >I know that in the 1840's and early 1850's sleeves that were quite tight >would be cut on the bias, and have small gathers at the elbow, which >allows better stretch and freedom of movement. Even the leg o' mutton >sleeves of the 1820's and 30's were on the bias so the lower sleeve >could fit tightly but allow stretch with movement. Janet Arnold's >Patterns of Fashion I has a pattern for an 1840's dress with bias >sleeves. > >Are their repro. sleeves cut on the straight grain? I would suspect >those would be difficult to work in. > >Hope this helps. > >Katy > >Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian >vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 14:08:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CI8eHP031857 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:08:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CI77LV020454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:07:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CI73xG069227; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:07:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CI1M75063950 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:01:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09848 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:16:29 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:16:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] MC&T Journal -got mine! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-SINECTIS-Metrics: net.indra.com 1114; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, C M wrote: > Got my copy today! (I'm in the UK) Looks awesome and I wish it was > evening already and I could go home. Got a quick glimpse during the > lunchbreak, but can't wait to get really into it... Thanks! And thank you! This seems to be the day for delivery in England. I had a call a few hours ago from one of the authors I'm editing for Vol. 2 (a comparison of descriptions of early Irish costume in literature to art and archaeological sources -- with more than 200 footnotes!). She said, "Oh, by the way, the first volume just came, looks very nice." I'm jealous! I had two different packages from the publisher last week and each time thought that must be it, but no. As of yesterday the US branch was still waiting for the delivery. --Robin on pins and needles _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 14:10:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CIANhs031870 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:10:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CI9MLV020749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CI9LJ8071320; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:09:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3CI9Jjh071295 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:09:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-22117); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:09:19 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:09:19 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050412110554.00da0220@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:09:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mennonite Dress In-Reply-To: <1113326286.425c02ce8630c@ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The sleeves should be slightly (1 to 2 inches) dropped off the shoulder and the shoulder seam somewhat (1 to 2 inches) to the back instead of right on the shoulder. And the armhole should not be too big (paradoxical, I know) or arm movement will be very restricted. Joan At 01:18 PM 4/12/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Thank you so much, Susannah and Katy! Your information has been a lot of >help! >I'm at the library right now researching those titles you gave me, >Susannah. I >attend a Mennonite college, so they have quite a few of those works. > >Katy, you mentioned there are gathers at the elbows, but what about at the >armpit and shoulder? That's where they're finding the most restriction in >their >movement. > >Any more information will always be appreciated. > >Thanks again! >Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 14:17:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CIHUv6031907 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:17:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CIGKLV022125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CIGC5v077858; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:16:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sm4app00.siteprotect.com (sm4app00.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CIG2Hn077717 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:16:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from sm4app00.siteprotect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sm4app00.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF1B933BF7 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:08:19 -0500 (CDT) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mennonite Dress X-Origin: 65.164.18.144 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:08:18 -0500 X-Uidl: 4.2.2.20050412103907.00d9fe10@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: SiteMail 4.7.1 Message-Id: <20050412180819.AF1B933BF7@sm4app00.siteprotect.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3CIG2Hn077717 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And cutting on the bias won't take any more fabric than cutting on the straight grain if you're willing to use period piecing techniques, including carefully matching the pattern so that the piecing is almost invisible. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2 -5, 2006 On Tue Apr 12 12:43 , Joan Jurancich sent: >I have made many a dress for 1846 with the narrow sleeves cut on the >bias. I have cooked, baked, and done all sorts of work without any >trouble. It sounds as if they did cut the sleeves on the straight, >possibly not realizing that a close-fitting sleeve must not be cut on the >straight if you want to be able to move your arms. It takes a bit more >fabric to cut the sleeves on the bias (or close to the bias), but I just >use the scraps from cutting the sleeves to make the self-piping I need for >the dress. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 15:12:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CJCGLW032235 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:12:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CJAqLV029043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:10:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CJAgYq029043; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:10:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3CJAdQr028903 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:10:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2005041215103102190 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:10:31 -0400 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id j3CJAV0h004265 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:10:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mennonite Dress Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:10:26 -0400 Message-ID: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90A9106A@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90039B3509@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You need to have a pretty tight armseye (?) to have a tight sleeve -- the armhole has to come up right to the armpit. Kate -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Laura Morlock Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:18 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mennonite Dress Thank you so much, Susannah and Katy! Your information has been a lot of help! I'm at the library right now researching those titles you gave me, Susannah. I attend a Mennonite college, so they have quite a few of those works. Katy, you mentioned there are gathers at the elbows, but what about at the armpit and shoulder? That's where they're finding the most restriction in their movement. Any more information will always be appreciated. Thanks again! Laura -- "As long as hunger exists, peace cannot prevail." Nobel Peace Prize winner Willy Brandt -- www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 15:19:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CJJ8MN032278 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:19:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CJHoLV029763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:17:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CJHlPv035387; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:17:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f14.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.24]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CJHhnI035259 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:17:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:17:36 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.201 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:17:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.201] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "C M" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:17:36 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Apr 2005 19:17:36.0581 (UTC) FILETIME=[49346F50:01C53F94] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 15th century shirt edging X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I give up... Does somebody know how to achieve the almost invisible hem (or whatever it is) on the neckhole and cuffs of (mostly) flemish 15th century men's shirts? I would like to embroider the neckline and cuffs with whitework (as seen on the shepherd in the Bladelin triptych by Rogier van der Weyden, http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/w/weyden/rogier/07bladel/3bladel.html) and I need to finish the raw edge first. In some blackwork from almost the same time, one can see some very fine edging to secure the edge.... but how exactly was that done? It doesn't look like simple buttonhole stich.... Does someone know? I'd be grateful for any ideas..... Thanks, Caithlinn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 15:29:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CJTG2r032420 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:29:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CJS4LV001726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CJS03U044730; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:28:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CJRuoq044662 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:27:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CJRtck011656 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:27:55 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.85.245] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-85-245.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.85.245]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CJRpQD099826 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:27:55 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050412111638.024cff48@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:23:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: elizabethan shirt In-Reply-To: References: <200504121515.j3CFFSUJ003879@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I'm not sure I understand. Your costume guru agrees that the cut you >proposed creates the look you see in the pictures, but she won't let you use >it because she doesn't have any evidence that that particular cut was used? I think that's the situation. Now that I think of it, I don't remember if I've actually asked her if I can use my cut. But I'd rather not spend the linen making one if she's just going to refuse to let me wear it. I don't know - at this point it would seem like bugging her if I asked her before she made up her mind. >Isn't the fact that it creates the look you see in the pictures AND no >documented cut does considered evidence? (Again, I'm not sure I understand >you correctly -- no other cut does give that look, right?) I don't know if any other cut gives the same look, and I hadn't thought to look for another one. But paper's cheap, and I guess I could play around with it and try to find another possible cut that would produce the same results. If I can make one in paper, I can sew one in striped fabric, to double check my theory. Thanx for the suggestion. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 15:38:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CJcsrN032490 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:38:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CJbeLV002765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:37:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CJbIEj052800; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:37:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from leopard.mail.utk.edu (leopard.mail.utk.edu [160.36.0.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CJatq4052526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:37:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@utk.edu) Received: from webmail.utk.edu (camel.usg.utk.edu [160.36.178.34]) by leopard.mail.utk.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j3CJcVH7029982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:38:31 -0400 X-WebMail-UserID: sfarmer Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:36:53 -0400 From: Susan Farmer To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002252 Message-ID: <425DD05A@webmail.utk.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Infinite Mobile Delivery (Hydra) SMTP v3.62.01 X-Spam-Status: Message recipients not local. X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.45 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Odd Roman Numeral Question (OT sortof ...) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a question on the use of roman numerals in the 18th century -- y'all know about *lots* of stuff, so I'm hoping that someone can answer -- or at least point me in the proper direction. I'm looking at a date that I *know* is 1762 and the Roman Numeral for that date is as follows -- NOTE, I'm using square brackets for the "C" because I can't make a backwards "C" ..... -- [ I ] I ] [ [ L X I I I assume that the CCLXII translates into 262, but how do I get 1500 out of that bizarre combination of forward Cs, *backwards* Cs, and Is ?!?!?!? Inquiring minds and all that, Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of Tennessee http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 15:55:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CJtrMw032577 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:55:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CJmcLV003833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:48:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CJmUqm062154; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:48:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CJmN0t062050 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:48:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanna.hobbins@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i8so1443778rne for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:48:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:reply-to:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:importance:x-mimeole:in-reply-to:from; b=Ek1r/h2voxIMc2GKLMBzK28sol0OwmQVhe027VGqvdy6yzdu8KCqVtuLawpSbsWOTT01Fa3EdKcD7tnktjSk5MiQGIpCxcZ/20hPYTVvHW2s3+xh8zViVNdb74gfYm3qa+z4gRhTm2R6TcitAa3w9jungLdGdHOBNtdZiDwdgsQ= Received: by 10.38.65.1 with SMTP id n1mr5647325rna; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LIBRARY2162 ([132.216.28.131]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 71sm1087039rna.2005.04.12.12.48.21; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:48:22 -0700 (PDT) To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Odd Roman Numeral Question (OT sortof ...) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:48:21 -0400 Message-ID: <05BE78B0CF1BBC4BBA4AA255568D86110F876C@EXCHANGE2VS1.campus.mcgill.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <425DD05A@webmail.utk.edu> From: Joanna X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3CJmN0t062050 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well CI) is an alternative to M or 1000 and and I) is "half" of the symbol for 1000 or 500. Try doing a google search for reversed c, you should get a bunch of hits. Cheers, Joanna -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Susan Farmer Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:37 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Odd Roman Numeral Question (OT sortof ...) I have a question on the use of roman numerals in the 18th century -- y'all know about *lots* of stuff, so I'm hoping that someone can answer -- or at least point me in the proper direction. I'm looking at a date that I *know* is 1762 and the Roman Numeral for that date is as follows -- NOTE, I'm using square brackets for the "C" because I can't make a backwards "C" ..... -- [ I ] I ] [ [ L X I I I assume that the CCLXII translates into 262, but how do I get 1500 out of that bizarre combination of forward Cs, *backwards* Cs, and Is ?!?!?!? Inquiring minds and all that, Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of Tennessee http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 16:02:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CK2IH7032627 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:02:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CJs4LV004476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CJs0rW067176; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:54:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3CJpZkM064840 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:51:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-11344); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:51:35 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:51:34 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050412124448.00d9a410@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:51:31 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Odd Roman Numeral Question (OT sortof ...) In-Reply-To: <425DD05A@webmail.utk.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds like the typeface is a bit exotic. 1762 in Roman numerals is MDCCLXII (M=1000, D=500, the others you know). Joan At 03:36 PM 4/12/2005 -0400, you wrote: >I have a question on the use of roman numerals in the 18th century -- y'all >know about *lots* of stuff, so I'm hoping that someone can answer -- or at >least point me in the proper direction. > >I'm looking at a date that I *know* is 1762 and the Roman Numeral for that >date is >as follows -- NOTE, I'm using square brackets for the "C" because I can't >make >a backwards "C" ..... -- > >[ I ] I ] [ [ L X I I > >I assume that the CCLXII translates into 262, but how do I get 1500 out of >that bizarre combination of forward Cs, *backwards* Cs, and Is ?!?!?!? > >Inquiring minds and all that, >Susan > >----- >Susan Farmer >sfarmer@goldsword.com >Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology >University of Tennessee >http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 16:16:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CKGM11032704 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:16:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CKEhLV006940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CKEQkK085577; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:14:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3CKELt2085518 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:14:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from unknown (HELO the-new-beast.sbcglobal.net) (justin.barrett@sbcglobal.net@70.243.216.27 with login) by smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2005 19:21:48 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050412141807.036aba10@mail.justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:21:50 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows stepped close to the microphone and whispered: >Shelley does believe that the little mock-up I made, and lent her, >produces the same results as I mentioned above, and as seen in the ones in >the images I posted to this list. She just says she doesn't have any >evidence that the cut I proposed is the actual cut of these garments, >which means she won't let me make shirts/smocks that way. I need to make >a second shirt/smock for this year, and I want to make it using this >alternate cut. Carolyn, Could you show us the pattern you are proposing looks like? I seem to have missed the original post with your cutting diagram. I did see the pictures of the girl from 1569 and am interested in how you think that shirt was made. Thanks Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 16:37:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CKbuYU000334 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:37:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CKalLV010013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:36:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CKaVxb005121; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:36:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CKa9I2004718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:36:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j3CKTemT018607 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:29:40 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <425C3135.7090509@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:36:05 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Venice next week X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear H-Costume, An amazing whirlwind of luck has resulted in a sudden trip to Venice next week as a lady's companion. (Hubby is even staying home with the twins!) I've got all the guidebooks, I know about the weekly tourist booklet thing, all of that -- is there anything costume or history related that any of you have found out about in Venice that might not be in the regular sources? I'll be there for 8 days, in the city. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 17:05:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CL54WI000575 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:05:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CL2sLV013765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:02:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CL2pC3029187; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:02:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:fiJ+kf2zXtI7lE91K1ujidrB567rh6G5@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CL2nL9029147 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:02:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j3CL2mpS026863 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:02:48 -0400 Received: from dci012034013035.discovery.com ([12.34.13.35]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <59083.12.34.13.35.1113339768.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <425C3135.7090509@thibault.org> References: <425C3135.7090509@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Venice next week From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cynthia, You know those tall chopines you see in various costume history books? I saw them in the flesh in a museum in Venice! I was only there for a day (took oe of those bus tours of Italy), but I saw so much there. Venice is not very big, so it was one of their main museums that had the chopines. If you're interested in masks, they are all over the place! Enjoy! -Carol > Dear H-Costume, > > An amazing whirlwind of luck has resulted in a sudden trip to Venice > next week as a lady's companion. (Hubby is even staying home with the > twins!) > > I've got all the guidebooks, I know about the weekly tourist booklet > thing, all of that -- is there anything costume or history related that > any of you have found out about in Venice that might not be in the > regular sources? I'll be there for 8 days, in the city. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 17:25:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CLPZHY000726 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:25:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CLOHLV016981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:24:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CLNuMo048115; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:23:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CLNjrb047866 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:23:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3CLNdI00344 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:23:39 -0400 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:25:35 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Venice next week Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <425C3135.7090509@thibault.org> Message-Id: <685705E8-AB99-11D9-99F7-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The best thing about Venice is getting lost, ducking into a coffee shop to avoid a sudden thunderstorm and listening to the lady sing Ave Maria in the church square while the thunder sang base. :D We only had 3 days there and did all the usual touristy things. But the best thing about Venice is the getting lost part, just wander around. We found the best things that way. At least you won't have to deal with the heat. I'm jealous!! Does the lady's companion need a companion? :D Althea On Tuesday, April 12, 2005, at 01:36 PM, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Dear H-Costume, > > An amazing whirlwind of luck has resulted in a sudden trip to Venice > next week as a lady's companion. (Hubby is even staying home with the > twins!) > > I've got all the guidebooks, I know about the weekly tourist booklet > thing, all of that -- is there anything costume or history related > that any of you have found out about in Venice that might not be in > the regular sources? I'll be there for 8 days, in the city. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 17:33:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CLXeP1000788 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:33:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CLWYLV017926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:32:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CLVRMP054384; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:31:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CLV6FK054021 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:31:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LN1GZ7S7OWIU51QF@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:30:59 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LN1GZ7O9ACIXU2UR@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:30:59 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:31:38 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Odd Roman Numeral Question (OT sortof ...) In-reply-to: <425DD05A@webmail.utk.edu> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <425C3E3A.6000104@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <425DD05A@webmail.utk.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Susan Farmer wrote: >I'm looking at a date that I *know* is 1762 and the Roman Numeral for that >date is >as follows -- NOTE, I'm using square brackets for the "C" because I can't make >a backwards "C" ..... -- > >[ I ] I ] [ [ L X I I > >I assume that the CCLXII translates into 262, but how do I get 1500 out of >that bizarre combination of forward Cs, *backwards* Cs, and Is ?!?!?!? > > I suspect that what you're looking at is known tecnhically as "unclear type". I think what you're looking at should read M D C C L X I I, -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 17:34:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CLYt4N000811 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:34:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CLXxLV018137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:33:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CLXuxX056372; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:33:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3CLXipC056131 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:33:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2005 21:33:37 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050412222636.014caba8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:28:25 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Venice next week In-Reply-To: <59083.12.34.13.35.1113339768.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> References: <425C3135.7090509@thibault.org> <425C3135.7090509@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 17:02 12/04/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Cynthia, There was a wonderful exhibition of clothing textiles and stuff in London some years ago at the Accademia Italiana. I have a catalogue ........somewhere, and will go and find out where they came from. It was the courtesan's drawers that took my fancy!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 18:14:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CMEvsM001268 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:14:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CMDvLV024911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:13:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CMDrFx096558; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:13:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CMDpGK096526 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:13:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-85-245.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.85.245]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CM9qbd025611 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:09:54 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050412141603.024f0fa0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:13:34 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050412141807.036aba10@mail.justinanimator.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Kayta, >Could you show us the pattern you are proposing looks like? I seem to >have missed the original post with your cutting diagram. I did see the >pictures of the girl from 1569 and am interested in how you think that >shirt was made. (My costume lady informs me that if a man wears such a garment, it's called a shirt, while if a woman wears one, it's called a 'partlet' or a 'smock' instead. I'm using the term 'shirt' as a generic word for all those shirt-like items of body linen. We know the pattern for the shirts we have surviving examples of. Take that pattern, and instead of adding the sleeves right at the top of the body pieces, add them maybe 6" down the side seams from the top. Then sew up the side seams above them, making a large tube of the body pieces, open at the top. Now gather the open top of the body pieces into a hole the size of the neck. That's it. This causes the grain of the body pieces to run in concentric circles around the neck seam, taking any embroidery along with it, as seen in the "girl from 1569" portrait I cited. This hauls the tops of the sleeves right into a wide neckline, as seen in the Henry VIII portrait I cited. This makes lots of gathering right at the bottom of the neck band. And it does all this simply, without any extra calculation, pattern pieces, or fussing. Modern smocking would account for all this, so 'smocking' is the word that first came to my mind to describe it. My costume approval lady says I should call the contemporary technique 'pleatwork', so that's what I call it now. My shirts would have the body fullness gathered or pleated into a separate neck band with a ruff added to the top of it, because our group does 1575. Chris Laning pointed out that plain old gathering would do instead of any more complicated technique, and I can go for simpler. I think earlier shirts using my proposed cut had the necks themselves formed by some fancy gathering technique which caused the top of the body-piece tube to become the stand-up neck band, leaving a little ruffle at the very top (like modern smocking can do). I think this leftover ruffle was the origin of the ruff as we know it from later, and we can see it in the Henry VIII portrait I cited. I think later shirts using my proposed cut had separate neck bands and ruff pieces added to a gathered neck hole, as in the "girl from 1569" portrait. We see this added ruff piece the most clearly in later portraits of Mary Queen of Scots. Eventually, we know, the ruff got huge and became a separate piece. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 18:37:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CMbGKd001581 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:37:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CMa2LV027651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CMZYdV016109; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:35:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3CMZ3Fa015704 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:35:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2005 22:34:57 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050412232956.015fb950@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:32:58 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050412141603.024f0fa0@mail.frys.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050412141807.036aba10@mail.justinanimator.com> <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 15:13 12/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: >>Kayta, >>Could you show us the pattern you are proposing looks like? I seem to >>have missed the original post with your cutting diagram. I did see the >>pictures of the girl from 1569 and am interested in how you think that >>shirt was made. > >(My costume lady informs me that if a man wears such a garment, it's >called a shirt, while if a woman wears one, it's called a 'partlet' or a >'smock' instead. I'm using the term 'shirt' as a generic word for all >those shirt-like items of body linen. > >We know the pattern for the shirts we have surviving examples of. Take >that pattern, and instead of adding the sleeves right at the top of the >body pieces, add them maybe 6" down the side seams from the top. Then sew >up the side seams above them, making a large tube of the body pieces, open >at the top. Now gather the open top of the body pieces into a hole the >size of the neck. That's it. Does the 17th century Italian smock/shift/shirt/chemise cited in "Cut My Cote" by Dorothy Burnham resemble your pattern? It sounds as if it might. It is certainly very full, although maybe, I'm thinking, more Titian, Rubens style. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 19:48:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3CNmZqC002313 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:48:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3CNlWLV005563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:47:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3CNlIjC075727; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:47:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31508.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31508.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3CNlGE3075635 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:47:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bella_lucia_da_verona@yahoo.com.au) Received: (qmail 77335 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Apr 2005 23:47:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20050412234705.77333.qmail@web31508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.23.152.84] by web31508.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:47:05 EST Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:47:05 +1000 (EST) From: Bella Subject: Re: [h-cost] Venice next week To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia you are SO lucky! Right now I envy your luck immensely. I hope you have a great time! :-) Here are a few places that are costume-related that you might like to visit.... Ca' Rezzonico - Museum of 18th-Century Art: "As far as possible these pieces are chosen to illustrate how the changes in fashion reflected the changes in overall taste, with parallels and analogies being drawn between the colours, design and decorative motifs of clothing and those to be seen in the furnishings of the period. The clothing and accessories are mainly of Venetian origin and are in elaborately-worked fabrics embellished with embroidery and lace. They illustrate the high degree of skill in such crafts as weaving, tailoring, lace-making, embroidery, etc. which was the very basis of the elegant refinement and luxury for which the Venetian aristocrats of the day were renowned" Palazzo Mocenigo: "In 1985 the overall project of the Civic Museums designated Palazzo Mocenigo as the seat of the Museum and Study Centre of the History of Fabrics and Costumes: it contains the rich collections of ancient textiles and costumes mostly from the Correr, Guggenheim and Cini collections and the suppressed Centre of Palazzo Grassi. Palazzo Mocenigo also contains a well-stocked library specialising in the history of fabrics, costumes and fashion." Lace Museum: "t contains many valuable pieces of the School's rich collection, together with important examples of Venetian products from the sixteenth to the twentieth century. Incorporated in 1995 into the Venetian Civic Museums, this building today offers not only items of great value, but also the chance to observe lace-makers at work, keeping up the traditions of the island. It is also possible to consult the archives, an important source of historical and artistic documentation, with drawings, photographs and other iconographic testimony." "Laid out on the first floor of the Museum, the collection comprises more than two hundred rare and precious pieces that chart the development of lacemaking in Venice from the sixteenth to the twentieth century." This and more info at: Donna Bella Lucia da Verona - Innilgard, Lochac ©Any intellectual material in this message is copyright Anabella Wake (Bella Lucia da Verona) ***The APRIL Italian Showcase is now online!*** http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/yourgarb/showcase.htm Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 20:03:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D03fZw002410 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:03:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3D02hLV006847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:02:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D02eQC087234; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:02:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:PBEioZCHt+LtsrvQflBp6ruhX1CLP+xs@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D02clL087209 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:02:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.60] (p44.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.60]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3D007P19795 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:00:08 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20050412081334.00d954a0@pop.surewest.net> References: <4.2.2.20050412065732.00d925b0@pop.surewest.net> <4.2.2.20050412065732.00d925b0@pop.surewest.net> <4.2.2.20050412081334.00d954a0@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <16a082ae82ed75e3141c2dcdb694a7b8@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another overdyeing question Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:10:25 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It will be chemically inert once the dye is fixed. On Apr 12, 2005, at 9:15 AM, Joan Jurancich wrote: > Maybe. But you'd need to test it. Even with a "fixed" dye, there can > be chemical reactions (as per the earlier discussions about dye > removal). That's what makes dyeing so interesting. > Joan > > At 08:10 AM 4/12/2005 -0700, you wrote: >> Thanks. >> >> This may be a dumb question but: If I've dyed the garment, fixed the >> dye, and rinsed out all the excess, I can still get chmical reactions >> from mixing dyes? I could see it if I mixed a pinch of brown into >> the peach to begin with, but shouldn't a previous dye process be >> chemically inert? >> >> Fran >> Lavolta Press >> http://www.lavoltapress.com >> >> Joan Jurancich wrote: >> >>> Well, it might work. It all depends upon the exact chemistry of the >>> colors. You can get all sorts of (unexpected) chemical interactions >>> between the dyes and may end up with something entirely different >>> than what you expect. You might want to try one item (or a scrap of >>> the same fabric) and see what happens. >>> Joan >>> >>> At 06:47 AM 4/12/2005 -0700, you wrote: >>> >>>> I am dyeing stark white modern T-shirts, camisoles, etc. If I want >>>> a peach that is lighter, I know I have to start over with a new >>>> shirt. >>>> >>>> However, I also want a peach that is less pure and bright. And, I >>>> also have some light orange dye that when used as is might well >>>> turn out like the overly bright peach. As I mentioned, my taste is >>>> towards the rather muddy "earth tones," although I don't want to >>>> dye everything really dark. If I first dye some white garments a >>>> light ecru, and then dye peach or orange over them, will I still >>>> have a peach color but one with some of the brightness taken off? >>>> >>>> Thanks for any info. >>>> >>>> Fran >>>> Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming >>>> http://www.lavoltapress.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 20:22:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D0MAdO002492 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:22:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3D0LDLV008830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:21:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D0LACC001327; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:21:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D0L4fP001230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:21:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D1anD8011380 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:36:49 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] MC&T Journal -got mine! Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:20:58 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200504122020.58413.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 12 April 2005 9:35 am, C M wrote: > Hi Robin (and others) > > Got my copy today! (I'm in the UK) Looks awesome and I wish it was evening > already and I could go home. Got a quick glimpse during the lunchbreak, but > can't wait to get really into it... Thanks! Barnes & Noble tells me expected ship date is May 1 (I'm in the States). However, they may be lying so that I'll be happier when I get it early. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 20:41:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D0fcII002645 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:41:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3D0ecLV010970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:40:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D0eXG1015709; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:40:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D0e8Jd015529 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:40:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m155.in-tch.com [216.166.191.155]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j3D0a0400307 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <425C6BB1.80206@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:45:37 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century shirt edging References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The link doesn't give me a shepherd, just the 3 Kings, so I don't know your specific reference, but most likely, it's either a plain narrow hem (really narrow), or something similar, but with a simple embroidery holding the hem in place (like plain buttonhole stitch, or one of several variants). I've seen both treatments in extant shirts/shifts from the 16th century. Hope that helps... --sue, who wants to know about your whitework C M wrote: > I give up... > > Does somebody know how to achieve the almost invisible hem (or whatever > it is) on the neckhole and cuffs of (mostly) flemish 15th century men's > shirts? I would like to embroider the neckline and cuffs with whitework > (as seen on the shepherd in the Bladelin triptych by Rogier van der > Weyden, > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/w/weyden/rogier/07bladel/3bladel.html) > and I need to finish the raw edge first. In some blackwork from almost > the same time, one can see some very fine edging to secure the edge.... > but how exactly was that done? It doesn't look like simple buttonhole > stich.... Does someone know? I'd be grateful for any ideas..... > > Thanks, > > Caithlinn > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 20:44:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D0iq7O002680 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:44:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3D0hwLV011207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:43:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D0hwtI018116; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:43:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D0hucg018021 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:43:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m155.in-tch.com [216.166.191.155]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j3D0dk401204 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:39:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <425C6C92.5050606@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:49:22 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] MC&T Journal -got mine! References: <200504122020.58413.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200504122020.58413.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting...B&N told me, my expected shipping date is next week (April 16th-ish). --sue, also in the US Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > Barnes & Noble tells me expected ship date is May 1 (I'm in the States). > However, they may be lying so that I'll be happier when I get it early. :-) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 20:49:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D0nBO9002732 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:49:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3D0m6LV011541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D0m0lN020977; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:48:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D0lvlY020907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:47:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-237.sonic.net [209.148.113.237]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D0ltHO026863 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:47:56 -0700 Message-ID: <425C6C42.4040707@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:48:02 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another overdyeing question References: <4.2.2.20050412065732.00d925b0@pop.surewest.net> <4.2.2.20050412065732.00d925b0@pop.surewest.net> <4.2.2.20050412081334.00d954a0@pop.surewest.net> <16a082ae82ed75e3141c2dcdb694a7b8@ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <16a082ae82ed75e3141c2dcdb694a7b8@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's what I thought. The dyed garments have been run through the fixing process (soda ash), rinsed, and then washed again with detergent in hot water and dried in a dryer. At least I am dyeing a known fiber (100% cotton), brand new, with no finishes I know of (I also washed the garments in hot water and detergent before dyeing). And I know the same type of dye (Procion MX) was used before. Years ago, when I experimented with overdyeing vintage clothes, I was usually not entirely sure of the fiber content and definitely unsure what types of dyes and finishes had previously been used. I remember one time a dress turned out to have sleeves of a different fiber (though the same color, texture, etc.); so the body of the dress came out wine color as planned--but the sleeves were bright purple. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > It will be chemically inert once the dye is fixed. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 20:55:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D0t0hu002787 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:55:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3D0rwLV011947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D0rtPw025333; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:53:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D0rrjd025261 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:53:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.8e.253e7c09 (17526) for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:53:39 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <8e.253e7c09.2f8dc793@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:53:39 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Overdyeing Procion Dyes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/12/2005 1:26:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: How do you get a nice muddy color as opposed to trendy brights? To "kill" any color, mix it with it's compliment....the color opposite it on a color wheel. Since peach is a type of orange, it's compliment is in the blue area [orange and blue are complimentary colors....orange being a mix of red and yellow, blue is what's left out.] I would try a tint of robin's egg blue or like a sea foam color. You should get a subtle, delicate brown....maybe a cinnamon if there's a lot of red in the peach. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 21:37:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D1bPlf003101 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:37:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3D1aRLV015980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:36:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D1aJxn056929; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:36:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:Nk8/0E5PEgFjU1qPa9XisHSSwG0z0ulD@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D1aH5L056904 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:36:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.172] (p12.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.172]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3D1XoQ24727 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:33:50 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: References: <4259FC8F.8070101@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: color remover Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:44:18 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Synthrapol will not remove the vagrant dye. Retayne, or a dye magnet, will do so if you use it before any of the dye has run. Once it has run, you're out of luck. Sylrog On Apr 11, 2005, at 10:07 PM, Chris Laning wrote: > At 10:26 PM -0600 4/10/05, Sue Clemenger wrote: >> Happened to me, just a few weeks ago, with a rose-colored ItalianRen >> gown. The sleeves had fake puffs (white cotton) that had picked up a >> nasty, pink tinge from something that had cut loose in a wash load. >> I used a color remover (the kind specifically meant for use with >> vagrant dyes such as this), and in about 20 seconds had white puffs, >> and yellow-peach sleeves. Why the remover looked at the dye in the >> sleeves fabric (and lining!) as a stain, I don't know. > > If this happens to anybody again, try Synthropol first. Synthropol is > a very mild detergent (I think it's actually used as horse shampoo :) > that is particularly good at picking up "loose" dye and removing it. > This means if the pink underwear (for instance) is discovered before > it goes through a hot dryer, a second wash with Synthropol will often > solve the problem. (Pink underwear is the classic case because a lot > of red dyes are not very stable and will run even when other colors > don't.) > > Synthropol is cheap, it only takes a couple of tablespoons per load, > and a lot of art supply stores carry it, as does Dharma Trading (no > connection, just a satisfied customer). It's much cheaper to buy a > pint bottle of it than to spend $3 each (last I looked) for little > one-wash packets of something from Rit or wherever. > > You can always try the dye remover later, if this doesn't work. > > The dye remover is pretty aggressive stuff, as you've discovered, and > the results aren't always predictable. It does also weaken fabric if > you use too much of it, which is why it's not advisable for routine > bleaching. > -- > ____________________________________________________________ > > O Chris Laning - Davis, California > + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com > ____________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 21:53:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D1r3vK003209 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:53:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3D1pmLV017807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:51:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D1pdiU068178; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:51:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3D1pc1t068154 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:51:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-6735); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:51:38 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:51:37 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050412184302.00dab5d0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:51:32 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: color remover In-Reply-To: References: <4259FC8F.8070101@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And, actually, the mild detergent is not Synthrapol. It is Orvis, and it is used as horse shampoo. The label on my 7.5 lb jar gives the "USES: Effective in a wide range of cleaning tasks, such as cleaning rugs and upholstery, hand washing delicate fabrics, and washing livestock." It also works nicely for washing fleeces (just wool without the sheep). I have not tried it for vagrant dye removal. I have used Synthrapol when washing colored items for the first time to help remove excess dye (the Synthrapol helps hold the excess dye in suspension so it can be washed away). Joan At 07:44 PM 4/12/2005 -0600, you wrote: >Synthrapol will not remove the vagrant dye. Retayne, or a dye magnet, >will do so if you use it before any of the dye has run. Once it has run, >you're out of luck. > >Sylrog > >On Apr 11, 2005, at 10:07 PM, Chris Laning wrote: > >>At 10:26 PM -0600 4/10/05, Sue Clemenger wrote: >>>Happened to me, just a few weeks ago, with a rose-colored ItalianRen >>>gown. The sleeves had fake puffs (white cotton) that had picked up a >>>nasty, pink tinge from something that had cut loose in a wash load. >>>I used a color remover (the kind specifically meant for use with vagrant >>>dyes such as this), and in about 20 seconds had white puffs, and >>>yellow-peach sleeves. Why the remover looked at the dye in the sleeves >>>fabric (and lining!) as a stain, I don't know. >> >>If this happens to anybody again, try Synthropol first. Synthropol is a >>very mild detergent (I think it's actually used as horse shampoo :) that >>is particularly good at picking up "loose" dye and removing it. This >>means if the pink underwear (for instance) is discovered before it goes >>through a hot dryer, a second wash with Synthropol will often solve the >>problem. (Pink underwear is the classic case because a lot of red dyes >>are not very stable and will run even when other colors don't.) >> >>Synthropol is cheap, it only takes a couple of tablespoons per load, and >>a lot of art supply stores carry it, as does Dharma Trading (no >>connection, just a satisfied customer). It's much cheaper to buy a pint >>bottle of it than to spend $3 each (last I looked) for little one-wash >>packets of something from Rit or wherever. >> >>You can always try the dye remover later, if this doesn't work. >> >>The dye remover is pretty aggressive stuff, as you've discovered, and the >>results aren't always predictable. It does also weaken fabric if you use >>too much of it, which is why it's not advisable for routine bleaching. >>-- >>____________________________________________________________ >> >>O Chris Laning - Davis, California >>+ http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com >>____________________________________________________________ >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 23:22:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D3MUTM003575 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:22:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3D3LRLV026007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:21:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D3LHfO032741; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:21:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-08.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3D3LBDN032667 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:21:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 11221 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 03:21:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.7.232) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 03:21:05 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:27:25 +1000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: color remover Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20050412184302.00dab5d0@pop.surewest.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've found this bonnet online. Can others help me identify what time periods it could be worn in for historical re-enactments? front - http://www.hatsupply.com/images/Bonnet.jpg back - http://www.hatsupply.com/images/bonnetback.jpg Warmest Regards, Aylwen Garden ------------------------------------------------------------------ ~ custom made historical reproduction clothing ~ http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/costume.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 12 23:26:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D3Q808003589 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:26:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3D3PBLV026362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:25:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D3PBkS035529; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:25:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-01.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3D3NtRI034456 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:23:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 27993 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 03:22:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.7.232) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 03:22:30 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:28:48 +1000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20050412184302.00dab5d0@pop.surewest.net> Message-Id: <25EED0CA-ABCC-11D9-929A-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] bonnet identification X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ooops - I sent this message on the wrong subject heading.Aylwen I've found this bonnet online. Can others help me identify what time periods it could be worn in for historical re-enactments? front - http://www.hatsupply.com/images/Bonnet.jpg back - http://www.hatsupply.com/images/bonnetback.jpg Warmest Regards, Aylwen Garden ------------------------------------------------------------------ ~ custom made historical reproduction clothing ~ http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/costume.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 02:20:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D6KscI010742 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:20:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3D6JvLV010168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:19:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D6JoZu049713; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:19:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web81410.mail.yahoo.com (web81410.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.99]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3D6JmFj049644 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:19:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garbaholic@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20050413061942.40969.qmail@web81410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.152.233.204] by web81410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:19:42 PDT X-RocketYMMF: cybalshouse Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:19:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Doyle To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Spannish 1770 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi All, Recently I met a lady that was looking for someone who could make costumes, and since I did 16th century and earlier she inquired if I could make a colonial costume, based upon the information from the Colonial Williamsburg site. I prepared a quote that detail how to do the costume right, from the skin out. She's passed the information along to a friend that would like something Spannish from the same time period. Since I normally do 16th century and earlier, I don't have a clue where to start with Spannish from this era. Any suggestions? and any suggestions on general clothing construction from this era as well? I haven't delved to deeply yet, until I have a firm contract, but so far it sounds like I will have it soon. thanks Alexandria _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 04:02:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3D82q6p004830 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 04:02:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3D81rLV015336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:01:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D81f43014929; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:01:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D81ZLG014791 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:01:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB9A4178A for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 01:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 1C5E53813F; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 01:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 01:01:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inch graph paper X-Originating-Ip: [203.27.62.92] X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5CXNHaAA568QEAAAAB,1de6bcc80a3be4440b958cd6293b1f64 Message-Id: <20050413080130.1C5E53813F@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Jordana, No, you're not too late. ( I'm even more backed up on my email than you are! :-} ) Thank-you for that info, I'll have to look into it. Joannah. --- jaurbik@optonline.net wrote: From: jaurbik@optonline.net Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 18:48:29 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inch graph paper In response to an old thread ( I have been out of comission for a while) you CAN get rolls of 1/2 inch grid paper-the rolls are about 3 feet wide and are about 200 ft long. each roll is 26$ dollars plus whatever shippiing is to whereever you are. I order mine from a company called Nasco, their web site is www.enasco.com and the item number is 9712672. Their catalog is a pain if you do not have the item number. hope this is not to late to be helpful. jordana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 07:10:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DBA726006086 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:10:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DB8vLV010627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DB8Ffo031908; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:08:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DB6uW9031178 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:07:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.7a.713b62c3 (25305) for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:06:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <7a.713b62c3.2f8e5745@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:06:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] bonnet identification To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/12/2005 11:25:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, garden@earthlydelights.com.au writes: http://www.hatsupply.com/images/Bonnet.jpg I bought a couple of these for early 19th century, but I don't think they are right for pre-1820--the crown is not tall enough. The bonnet also seems rather stiff, so I think it would be difficult to get the brim to curve properly with ribbon ties from the band or over the crown. So if anyone else has suggestions for appropriate time period, I would also be interested. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 07:13:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DBDWbH006108 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:13:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DBCLLV011375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:12:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DBCK1w035001; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:12:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DBC7Lr034816 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:12:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DBC6ck031777 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:12:06 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.70.120] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-70-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.120]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DBBvbH099194 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:12:06 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050412155653.03beecf8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:04:29 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050412232956.015fb950@127.0.0.1> References: <4.3.1.2.20050412141603.024f0fa0@mail.frys.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050412141807.036aba10@mail.justinanimator.com> <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Does the 17th century Italian smock/shift/shirt/chemise cited in "Cut My >Cote" by Dorothy Burnham resemble your pattern? It sounds as if it might. >It is certainly very full, although maybe, I'm thinking, more Titian, >Rubens style. You'd have to slide the sleeves down the side seams till there was some side seam above where the sleeves were attached, and then it would resemble my pattern. The neck hole of mine is the entire circumference of the body pieces gathered in. And yes, as it stands you would have a more Titian or Rubens style, not an Elizabethan English one. Interesting how similar shirts 8, 9, and 11 are, although separated by continent and century. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 08:38:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DCcG82007163 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:38:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DCarLV016740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DCagpr089224; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:36:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DCadVN089124 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:36:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A24E8DC0020; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:36:30 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.123 ([209.131.81.123] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 13 Apr 05 12:36:29 -0000 Message-ID: <007201c54025$a7f13e60$7b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7a.713b62c3.2f8e5745@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] bonnet identification Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:38:10 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree with the possible time period. The curved brim bothers me for that purpose. I usually prepare this shape from generic straw,cut a U shape from the back for the neck fit, and then rebind the whole before wetting and reblocking. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 7:06 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] bonnet identification > > In a message dated 4/12/2005 11:25:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > garden@earthlydelights.com.au writes: > > http://www.hatsupply.com/images/Bonnet.jpg > > > > I bought a couple of these for early 19th century, but I don't think they > are right for pre-1820--the crown is not tall enough. The bonnet also seems > rather stiff, so I think it would be difficult to get the brim to curve > properly with ribbon ties from the band or over the crown. > > So if anyone else has suggestions for appropriate time period, I would also > be interested. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 09:57:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DDv9fT007612 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:57:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DDthLV022266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:55:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DDtUbR047240; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:55:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DDtRvi047190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:55:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DDtTAG036517 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:55:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j3DDtLak036501 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:55:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 70.48.177.213 ( [70.48.177.213]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:55:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1113400521.425d24c9b9c12@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:55:21 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 70.48.177.213 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] practicality of dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have another, more generic question about Mennonite dress in the 1850s. The research I've done basically amounts to they dressed the same as everyone else at that time, just more simply, without the "superfluous" elements, like lace, ribbon, hoops, etc. But these were farm women, and so my questions are: Did farm women wear corsets? How many under skirts would they have worn? They didn't wear the hoops, and they were about ten years behind in fashion. That would mean the millions of thick and heavy skirts, but that would be expensive and rather impractical for farm labour. Thanks, Laura -- "As long as hunger exists, peace cannot prevail." Nobel Peace Prize winner Willy Brandt -- www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 10:11:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DEAxT2007737 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:10:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DE9gLV023438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:09:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DE9Yps058675; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:09:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-09.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3DE9QQR058571 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:09:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 23937 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 14:09:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.6.41) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 14:09:22 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:15:41 +1000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] practicality of dress Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <1113400521.425d24c9b9c12@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Message-Id: <84B2A733-AC26-11D9-929A-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm still researching different aspects of the 1850s and 60s and know nothing of the Mennonite dress, but if as you say they were behind the times, then my guess would be that they may still have been wearing the corded stays of the 1820s/30s. These would have been more affordable for farm workers, more comfortable and practical. Warmest Regards, Aylwen Garden ------------------------------------------------------------------ ~ custom made historical reproduction clothing ~ http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/costume.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wednesday, April 13, 2005, at 11:55 PM, Laura Morlock wrote: > > I have another, more generic question about Mennonite dress in the > 1850s. The > research I've done basically amounts to they dressed the same as > everyone else > at that time, just more simply, without the "superfluous" elements, > like lace, > ribbon, hoops, etc. But these were farm women, and so my questions are: > Did farm women wear corsets? > How many under skirts would they have worn? They didn't wear the > hoops, and > they were about ten years behind in fashion. That would mean the > millions of > thick and heavy skirts, but that would be expensive and rather > impractical for > farm labour. > > Thanks, > Laura > > -- > "As long as hunger exists, peace cannot prevail." Nobel Peace Prize > winner > Willy Brandt -- www.thehungersite.com > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 10:37:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DEbKup007887 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:37:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DEa7LV027075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:36:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DEa3jw082168; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:36:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f9.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.19]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DEa0rV082018 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:36:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:35:54 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.201 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:35:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.201] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "C M" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:35:54 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Apr 2005 14:35:54.0819 (UTC) FILETIME=[1961F930:01C54036] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:15th century shirt edging X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Doh, Of course, not a shepherd, one of the kings... Too long a day at work and too many triptychs I have looked at lately... But thanks for the suggestions... I will give them a try on a scrap, just to see which ones turn out best. As to the whitework... I haven't completely decided yet, but I was going to use a pattern from Bassee's Neues Modelbuch.... it's a bit too late, I know, but I reckon a simple one might work. Alternatively I was going to make some bobbin lace... not sure yet. Cheers, Caithlinn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 10:48:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DEmswN007932 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:48:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DElnLV028701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:47:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DElhme092697; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:47:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DElelj092594 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:47:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.1ad.359cffb6 (18251) for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:47:33 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1ad.359cffb6.2f8e8b05@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:47:33 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] bonnet identification To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/13/2005 8:40:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: I usually prepare this shape from generic straw,cut a U shape from the back for the neck fit, and then rebind the whole before wetting and reblocking. That's what I do, too, only I usually re-block before cutting and binding. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 10:49:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DEn8bP007938 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:49:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DEm2LV028716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DEm1So092967; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:48:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3DElwtf092907 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:47:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-4686); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:47:57 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:47:56 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050413073930.00d97750@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:47:52 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] practicality of dress In-Reply-To: <1113400521.425d24c9b9c12@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wearing a corset is a good thing. It gives you physical support not only for the bosom, but for your back as well. A working woman's corset is not as restrictive as one for fashionable wear. You lace snuggly, so the corset stays in place comfortably. Tight lacing is only for the fashionable rich (and was preached against by doctors of the period, though often ignored by fashionable young women). One to three linen or cotton petticoats (I generally wear three, one of them corded) should be sufficient. Joan Docent at Sutter's Fort, Sacramento, CA At 09:55 AM 4/13/2005 -0400, you wrote: >I have another, more generic question about Mennonite dress in the 1850s. The >research I've done basically amounts to they dressed the same as everyone >else >at that time, just more simply, without the "superfluous" elements, like >lace, >ribbon, hoops, etc. But these were farm women, and so my questions are: >Did farm women wear corsets? >How many under skirts would they have worn? They didn't wear the hoops, and >they were about ten years behind in fashion. That would mean the millions of >thick and heavy skirts, but that would be expensive and rather impractical >for >farm labour. > >Thanks, >Laura > >-- >"As long as hunger exists, peace cannot prevail." Nobel Peace Prize winner >Willy Brandt -- www.thehungersite.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 14:04:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DI4U3Q010695 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:04:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DI2mLV023949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:02:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DI2Yll076129; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:02:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3DI2Arb075874 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:02:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 18:02:10 -0000 Message-ID: <005901c54052$ea20c800$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <425C3135.7090509@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Venice next week Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:02:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just returned from Venice in October, it was magnificent. There is hardly anything in the city that isn't costume related, so you will definitely be in your element. Do take a moment to eat the local food. The linguine con vongole is amazing at Antiqua Doro by the Rialto. Walk through the Jewish Ghetto and there is a museum there, which may have clothing as well as Jewish artifacts (I had the luck to arrive in Venice on Sukkot, so it was closed). It's amazing, and I second the walking bit. Costume related: do check out all the masks, and shop carefully. If you wish to purchase any, I felt the best were the hand crafted ones, made locally, although they do cost a bit more. All the major sellers will send your masks home for you (definitely the way to do it, for about the cost of the fees/tax you pay if you take it with you, which they back out when you ship home). I.e., if you choose to ship, it ends up costing about the same tax=shipping, and you don't have to worry about breakage. They are exquisite! Enjoy... angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:36 PM Subject: [h-cost] Venice next week > Dear H-Costume, > > An amazing whirlwind of luck has resulted in a sudden trip to Venice next > week as a lady's companion. (Hubby is even staying home with the twins!) > > I've got all the guidebooks, I know about the weekly tourist booklet > thing, all of that -- is there anything costume or history related that > any of you have found out about in Venice that might not be in the regular > sources? I'll be there for 8 days, in the city. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 15:06:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DJ6gdD011082 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:06:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DJ5BLV001415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:05:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DJ4wjW033889; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:04:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail8.mdx.safepages.com (mail8.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DJ4tjb033690 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:04:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail8.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 5C5A01435AA; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:04:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust60.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.60]) by mail8.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BBA814354D for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:04:49 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <066d01c5405b$cf030390$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century shirt edging Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:05:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a similar problem on very late 15th and early 16thC square necked chemises; a half inch or so of the chemise is supposed to be visible above the gown's neckline, but in portraits the hem is so tiny as to be barely visible! The problem is even more pronounced on the filmy little early flat partlets, where there's just no visible hem at all on most of them. I'm able to make a pretty narrow hem--less than 1/8" wide, either finger-pressed or rolled--but I have yet to manage the delicacy seen in paintings. Part of the problem may be that I just don't have a fine enough linen; I really need to save up enough to buy a bolt or two of that Bishop's lawn stuff from Jersey. Or maybe I just need to resist my neurotic desire for mathematical precision, which makes me hate rolled hems--with practice, I could probably manage a smaller one! Or perhaps the paintings and photos are just being deceptive--I've never examined an extant chemise. I've wondered if there is a specific technique used for these types of hems, though. I keep thinking of the 'singling' used on some of the Herjolfsnes garments, and wondering if there's some related technique for fine linens. But then again, the later chemises almost universally have a teeny tiny edging of black or dark embroidery, so maybe that IS the technique. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 16:30:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DKUY2S011579 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:30:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DKTALV010274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:29:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DKSvUJ010812; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:29:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts8.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DKSlVx010599 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:28:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.138.85]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050413202841.JRZW1623.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:28:41 -0400 Message-ID: <007b01c54068$094c50e0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1113400521.425d24c9b9c12@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: [h-cost] practicality of dress Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:33:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I have another, more generic question about Mennonite dress in the 1850s. The > research I've done basically amounts to they dressed the same as everyone else > at that time, just more simply, without the "superfluous" elements, like lace, > ribbon, hoops, etc. But these were farm women, and so my questions are: > Did farm women wear corsets? > How many under skirts would they have worn? They didn't wear the hoops, and > they were about ten years behind in fashion. That would mean the millions of > thick and heavy skirts, but that would be expensive and rather impractical for > farm labour. > > Thanks, > Laura Judging by the photos I have seen in museums and archives in Alberta and Saskatchewan (Canada) the farmers wives still wore their corsets, just not their 'Sunday best', the dresses tended to be simpler and harder wearing, and a bit shorter. Perhaps one petticoat for summer, more/heavier ones for winter. Most of the photos you may come accross are not going to be terribly helpful as to what was worn daily, getting your picture taken was a pretty big production, you wore your best clothes, which were probably not the newest fashion as you only wore it occasionally. You may want to add Saskatchewan to the list of search criteria for Mennonite clothing, a large portion of the population is Mennonite. Just my two bits :-) Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 16:52:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DKqvxh011708 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:52:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DKp5LV013183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:51:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DKp1b9032164; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:51:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DKowqe032022 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:50:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.13d.112c742d (15875) for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mblk-r24 (mblk-r24.mblk.aol.com [152.163.179.14]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v105.26) with ESMTP id MAILINID72-3e03425d862629b; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:50:46 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:50:45 -0400 Message-Id: <8C70E819945B447-1B4-2B91A@mblk-r24.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200504131802.j3DI1fMr075459@net.indra.com> Received: from 216.23.116.42 by mblk-r24.sysops.aol.com (152.163.179.14) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:50:45 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200504131802.j3DI1fMr075459@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.0.0.12132 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.179.14 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: overdyeing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran, thanks for posting this question. I have the same problem with a length of linen I bought on the Internet. In flourescent light it looks like a vivid peach, which was what I wanted, but in other types of light it turns into construction-worker orange! I have never dyed anything, so I've been hemming and hawing about what to do. Sounds like it would be trial and error even for experienced dyers, so I suppose I'll just get a box of Rit and cross my fingers.... Regarding the Mennonite conversation: I think that in the period it was considered scandalous to leave the house without a corset, even for farmers' wives, so I think religious people like Mennonites would have considered it an issue of morality to wear them. This is what my grandmother tells me, so maybe in the early part of the nineteenth century it would have been different, but I doubt it. ::returns to lurking:: Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 16:54:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DKsOcV011720 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:54:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DKrQLV013368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DKrNs1034120; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:53:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.75]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3DKrIcq033985 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:53:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from snappylunch_2001@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 70282 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Apr 2005 20:53:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=hEE46lfU2yp+ThkxKWlnYQPKhbGarlv8erh7OcltvFSSFsDZJ73JKM3SnnJa93ZWgkfGkjBUdR7imp6ONt75HuBwTDiqtTTUNqE9Mgms3Yx4GA68v1Mqg/ihma4SB5vwQCvyJB+JkU13MsGZugPW6WCB4ErEcx1NZAj5ikZRsSU= ; Message-ID: <20050413205313.70280.qmail@web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.4.90.6] by web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:53:13 PDT Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:53:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Mia Dappert To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504131802.j3DI1fMr075459@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:the bonnet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To me this is one of the "IT DEPENDS" answers If you are doing it for the costume, and the look of, early to mid 1800's is probably good. I'm thinking Dicken's Fairs( is that right? We don't have them here in Charlotte, NC) and swanning around garb at a Am Civ War renactment. If you are doing it for someone who is a bit more into the "authentic" end, it probably would not suffice for anything. ( well maybe pre-1840s, I don't know those shapes as well as 1840s-1860s.) For the more authentically minded there are better (if probably more expensive alternatives) This will probably get something stirred up as the above reply sounds slightly holier than thou, but my personal journey is leading me to the more authentic, rather than the costume. I love hearing about the costumers among us, and their perspective and learning from the many helpful hints that have gotten ME out of several binds My decision for myself are leaning to the authentic and progressive (a current Am Civ War term that I find the best definition (to me) means "our clothing , material culture and demenor is progressing to what we hope is a more authentic level.). Keep on will all the good comments. This is how we learn Mia in Charlotte --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 18:29:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DMT3ox012255 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:29:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DMRaLV024618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:27:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DMRH2M021457; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:27:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DMRBLR021343 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:27:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so163724nzp for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:27:06 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=XaCr6zEDLgmrTNnAzMNrNAUxWE19BYb561fdFeU2wffJ7UuiZqh29ZWo6CoI+SrkLlPvoz07ii27SdlAkRchRT3iza0ITIc4PrDUGlvEZjyz+BDAl0HPMD2JOtCyRmYASKx9HCKX4JvWU0uXvuQgzvx+o7xxOmN7B2IaAuATDq4= Received: by 10.36.59.9 with SMTP id h9mr71921nza; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.3 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:27:06 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] Venice next week Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3DMRBLR021343 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The best thing about Venice ... is that t'aint far from Florence where the Galeria di Costumi in the Pitti Palace has just reopened. The burial garments of Eleanor & Cosimo are rumored to be back on display. You can pick up the 5+ volumes of "Galeria del Costume" for sale in their wonderful bookshop. Sure, it's "far" if you're from Manhattan, but I know you used to live in Calif and can deal with a Californian's idea of "not far". --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 19:42:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3DNgROe012644 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3DNf1LV002954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DNer9j081149; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:40:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3DNej4j080984 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:40:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 23:40:39 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050414003021.014cbef8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:38:42 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century shirt edging In-Reply-To: <066d01c5405b$cf030390$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 14:05 13/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: >I have a similar problem on very late 15th and early 16thC square necked >chemises; a half inch or so of the chemise is supposed to be visible above >the gown's neckline, but in portraits the hem is so tiny as to be barely >visible! The problem is even more pronounced on the filmy little early >flat partlets, where there's just no visible hem at all on most of them. > >I'm able to make a pretty narrow hem--less than 1/8" wide, either >finger-pressed or rolled--but I have yet to manage the delicacy seen in >paintings. Part of the problem may be that I just don't have a fine enough >linen; I really need to save up enough to buy a bolt or two of that >Bishop's lawn stuff from Jersey. Or maybe I just need to resist my >neurotic desire for mathematical precision, which makes me hate rolled >hems--with practice, I could probably manage a smaller one! Or perhaps >the paintings and photos are just being deceptive--I've never examined an >extant chemise. > >I've wondered if there is a specific technique used for these types of >hems, though. I keep thinking of the 'singling' used on some of the >Herjolfsnes garments, and wondering if there's some related technique for >fine linens. But then again, the later chemises almost universally have a >teeny tiny edging of black or dark embroidery, so maybe that IS the technique. The only chemise I've seen close up is the one from 1615 ish at the Museum of London. My notes say 1/8th inch hems, ordinary hem (I guess I mean hem stitch, not running stitch, and rolled I think.) The long gussets have selvedges, and are whip stitched to the side seams. The other seams, not on the straight of the grain, are tiny run and fell seams.The sleeves are finished all round, with a seam along the top, The finished edges are then joined with a complicated faggoting type stitch, which also joins them to the armholes and the square underarm gussets. The linen is not as fine as the Bishop's Lawn from Jersey. I should say that I took the pattern for a project that does not involve exact copying and thread counting which is why I do not have detailed details, if you see what I mean. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 13 22:47:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3E2low7013510 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:47:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3E2bmLV020099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:37:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3E2bPQl004223; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:37:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3E2bJcH004147 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:37:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from cottontail.webwarren.com (pcp09760503pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.38.25.187]) by webwarren.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3E2Nwv12027 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:23:58 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050409082746.04d888b0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:37:13 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell In-Reply-To: <200504082042.j38KgbxF057191@net.indra.com> References: <200504082042.j38KgbxF057191@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan and Yahoo groups (WAS: Re: Pet peeves) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thought I sent this out a few days ago... At Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:12:36 -0700 (PDT), Lady Satine wrote: >When I asked a friennd about elizabethan I was referred here.... and told >this is teh best site for help with that subject. For Elizabethan specifically, you might also want to check out the ElizabethanClothing Yahoo group. Traffic there ebbs and flows, but tends to center around trying to re/deconstruct authentic Elizabethan clothing. Most of the regulars are involved in SCA or ren faires (patrons, playtrons, cast), or are otherwise interesed in constructing garments from scratch. More 16th-Cent costuming (more-or-less) interest groups include: RenCostumer -- not always as authenticity-minded, but plays in several 16th-Century cultures (we've had threads on Bruegel dresses, Margos Patterns, Italian Ren, "Ever After", and others) Courtesan (I've seen you on this one, Lady Satine!) Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming groups (ditto, I think) margospatterns -- for folk using, or interested in using Margo Anderson's Elizabethan patterns. Ady Boyd also set up a French Ren Yahoo group, but I forgot its name offhand... HTH, Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 02:24:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3E6Oh9V021681 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:24:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3E6NKLV005228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:23:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3E6N8IW045429; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:23:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41907.mail.yahoo.com (web41907.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3E6N6Oc045354 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:23:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 83620 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2005 06:23:01 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=1R4evmBQsUARXVZwyV5hdoHh3bQ1owyQxBJi8YHcOuQ1a82NeRNYaBD2vyB3V+yKGdiDcWlnMsL6QQvPWpyzjK+Srq2HbW2wlUkmk1yQdvBxTq9vcb7Rd7tttJdIcVNQyPQWZ6pxYRoWP78vJVWwVAgWonBVGPBRk2uJtOjs7L0= ; Message-ID: <20050414062301.83618.qmail@web41907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.113] by web41907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:23:01 PDT Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:23:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Still lagging memos?????? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks I am already on most of these sites As you know and the others I will check ut Thank you!!!! Speaking of things not related to SCA... Does anyone know where I can find a Original Battlestar Galactica Colonial Warrior Uniform Patterns???? Must be the Original 1977 TV series pattern....If it exists... Again..... Thank you to Everyone who helped get to the bottom of the issue and clear up mis-communications! I really appreciate it! Satine! Ps...What does HTH stand For I have not a clue.. I have seen it before and am really curious.. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 02:49:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3E6n5Br029073 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:49:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3E6m6LV007249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3E6m2na061442; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:48:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3E6lx6X061397 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:48:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3E6m0l8030278 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:48:00 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.70.189] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-70-189.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.189]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3E6lrbH086286 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:47:58 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050413234638.0257e688@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:47:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Still lagging memos?????? In-Reply-To: <20050414062301.83618.qmail@web41907.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6667> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Speaking of things not related to SCA... Does anyone know where I can find >a Original Battlestar Galactica Colonial Warrior Uniform Patterns???? >Must be the Original 1977 TV series pattern....If it exists... 1977 - that's historical. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 04:28:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3E8SSOU020678 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 04:28:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3E8RHLV021532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3E8R8FI023933; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:27:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3E8R6JP023907 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:27:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-191-39.mn.res.rr.com [24.26.191.39]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j3E8R0Y2029676 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 03:27:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20050414032305.00be1b28@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 03:23:49 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan and Yahoo groups (WAS: Re: Pet peeves) In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050409082746.04d888b0@mail.earthlink.net> References: <200504082042.j38KgbxF057191@net.indra.com> <200504082042.j38KgbxF057191@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another Yahoo group to check out would be europe16thc Cheers, Danielle At 10:37 PM 4/13/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Thought I sent this out a few days ago... > >At Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:12:36 -0700 (PDT), Lady Satine > wrote: > >>When I asked a friennd about elizabethan I was referred here.... and told >>this is teh best site for help with that subject. > >For Elizabethan specifically, you might also want to check out the >ElizabethanClothing Yahoo group. Traffic there ebbs and flows, but tends >to center around trying to re/deconstruct authentic Elizabethan clothing. >Most of the regulars are involved in SCA or ren faires (patrons, >playtrons, cast), or are otherwise interesed in constructing garments from >scratch. >HTH, > >Brenda >webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 06:56:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3EAurFk016826 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:56:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EAtgLV003755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 04:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EAtVx2007409; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 04:55:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EAtOcG007292 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 04:55:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D67740987 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 03:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 6F0E7E4B9; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 03:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 03:55:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric organization X-Originating-Ip: [203.27.62.92] X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5CXkwOAAOGoAEAAAAB,1ebe1ff00e457db088b602326c5e22ae Message-Id: <20050414105510.6F0E7E4B9@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know what you mean about the fun of rediscovering things you'd forgotten you had - I've recently had that fun when we had to sort through and repack many, many boxes of stuff before we moved house, although many of my rediscoveries were of books. ( We now have a storage area approx. 2m x 2m which is packed solid to a height of 2.5m with boxes filled mostly with books! ) Joannah. --- Suzi Clarke wrote: From: Suzi Clarke Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 17:47:16 +0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric organization At 09:00 09/03/2005 -0800, you wrote: >I know this is probably waaay late, but here it is anyway.... >( I'm not behind with reading my mail, no.....only a month or so!!! ) > >--- Lynn Downward wrote: > >I think this may the article you have in mind. > >http://www.bitwizards.com/norborough/timetosew.html It is a great idea, but as a professional costume maker, with drawers and boxes full of fabrics from 20 years and more back, I don't have the time to do all of that! Besides, I would miss those wonderful moments that go "I didn't know I had that!!" I had occasion to dive into a couple of filing cabinets the other day, and found 10 metres of grey drill - I use white drill to line my bodices and have no need of grey. This was bought by a customer in bulk for a job, and he never took the remains, and of course I have lost touch with him. But I also found a length of green wool for a skirt, which I vaguely remember buying when I was a college (!), a length of green silk, and ditto blue striped silk which I shall use *eventually*!! I would miss all of that if I was organised!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 07:46:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3EBkUa5017141 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:46:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EBjILV006814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 05:45:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EBjF7c037107; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 05:45:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3EBiwcJ036930 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 05:45:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2005 11:44:52 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050414120759.014cc360@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:42:57 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric organization In-Reply-To: <20050414105510.6F0E7E4B9@sitemail.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:55 14/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: >I know what you mean about the fun of rediscovering things you'd forgotten >you had - I've recently had that fun when we had to sort through and >repack many, many boxes of stuff before we moved house, although many of >my rediscoveries were of books. ( We now have a storage area approx. 2m x >2m which is packed solid to a height of 2.5m with boxes filled mostly with >books! ) > > > > > >I think this may the article you have in mind. > > > >http://www.bitwizards.com/norborough/timetosew.html I just had another read of the article. However, when I got to the line "Get your fabric into one area" I had to stop - I was laughing so much. My fabric is already in one place - all over my workroom, in boxes, on shelves, in cupboards and drawers!! My method would have to be 1) Empty Workroom. 2) Build extension (difficult as I am 2 floors up!) 3) Build acres of shelves 4) Buy hundreds - well a hundred to start - boxes 5) Give up before 1) The method described would be wonderful if you haven't got much fabric, or hadn't been collecting fabric for over 20 years. (Or didn't have fabric for customers, who haven't collected it!!) (Or had a week spare to do it!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 08:53:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ECraIZ017609 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:53:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ECqJLV011974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:52:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ECqAf5083255; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:52:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ECq8t1083154 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:52:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from irmgart@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so852280wri for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 05:52:02 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pVEPx6gzHXDBJu380jzhHkSK1e45PDSnFgGLImaHsKsprmgPW8ofinOlgyNonjASEzsRH/OGhZu+ULRNd+RtwRKIVMznLx0AJJFUsYIEAVLs0Ow65i0jsZZuqHGNAahYfbbenD4pm7T8q1P/X9myjSrAKGtDsKUgDLEJpgm9P4E= Received: by 10.54.42.50 with SMTP id p50mr597159wrp; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 05:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.45.65 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 05:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:52:01 -0400 From: Irmgart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: overdyeing In-Reply-To: <8C70E819945B447-1B4-2B91A@mblk-r24.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <200504131802.j3DI1fMr075459@net.indra.com> <8C70E819945B447-1B4-2B91A@mblk-r24.sysops.aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3ECq8t1083154 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on the other side of dying...I had this olive drab linen that was supposed to become gores for a gothic fitted dress... but since I'd fitted the gown oh... about 2 1/2 years ago.... I figured I'd use it for a new corded corset (sorry Maddalena). Now, I don't particularly like green, and I really don't like olive green, so I thought, this needs to get washed again (it smelled musty) and I'll toss some bleach in for giggles! It's going to be an undergarment, and it's linen, so it should be ok. Well, when it came out of the washer it was *brown*! a dark chocolate brown! Wow. I so did not expect that! I'm not a huge fan of brown, either, but it's more workable than olive. I may see about going to get some dylon dye stripper from the craft store tonight and see what it does. Or, I may just have a brown corset, or I may use it as guards on the pinkish red dress that I'm making for hot weather or... something else. -Irmgart _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 09:58:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3EDwd2V018072 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:58:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EDtXLV017448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:55:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EDtORF030300; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:55:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EDtMkq030244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:55:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EDtLAG018003 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:55:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j3EDtD5U017989 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:55:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 65.93.149.124 ( [65.93.149.124]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:55:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1113486913.425e7641429c1@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:55:13 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 65.93.149.124 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: practicality of dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't searched the Mennos of Saskatchewan because I've been researching a specific family in Waterloo, Ontario. There's a slight difference between the Swiss Mennonites, and the Russian Mennonites. But you're right, I will do some more research into Manitoba - certainly farm based! And a lot of them did come from the States. Thanks for the suggestion! Laura Judging by the photos I have seen in museums and archives in Alberta and Saskatchewan (Canada) the farmers wives still wore their corsets, just not their 'Sunday best', the dresses tended to be simpler and harder wearing, and a bit shorter. Perhaps one petticoat for summer, more/heavier ones for winter.  Most of the photos you may come accross are not going to be terribly helpful as to what was worn daily, getting your picture taken was a pretty big production, you wore your best clothes, which were probably not the newest fashion as you only wore it occasionally. You may want to add Saskatchewan to the list of search criteria for Mennonite clothing, a large portion of the population is Mennonite. Just my two bits :-) Sheridan -- "As long as hunger exists, peace cannot prevail." Nobel Peace Prize winner Willy Brandt -- www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 11:37:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3EFbPKE018702 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:37:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EFZbLV028261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:35:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EFZCa2018764; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:35:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail8.mdx.safepages.com (mail8.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EFZAfM018619 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:35:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail8.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 79E7A14344E; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:35:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust75.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.75]) by mail8.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F2D11433D9 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:35:06 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <06c301c54107$ae3850f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050414003021.014cbef8@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century shirt edging Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:36:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you Suzi, that is helpful--and makes me feel better about my efforts! I've been looking at the photos I have of extant chemises and shirts with a fresh eye, and finding some details I missed before. The Nils Sture shirt, for example, had some features that look like they were hemmed with techniques similar to the chemises in the paintings, particularly the teeny tiny black edging on the collar and cuffs. A 1540s boy's shirt at the V&A (? going on memory here) shown on Nicole Kipar's website has the same tiny black edging, and on both (at least from the photos I have) it looks like there's no other finish to the fabric edge. Of course, on both of those, the edges in question could be the fabric's selvedge, which wouldn't be possible on the sort of square-neck chemise I'm trying to reproduce. Oh, well. More experimentation is called for! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 13:23:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3EHNGwp019594 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:23:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EHLpLV011480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:21:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EHLTHE021354; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EHLO6d021259 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:21:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from perronnelle@earthlink.net) Received: from user-12hc6s3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.131] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DM81s-0000Ej-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:21:24 -0700 Message-ID: <425EA6AA.6070503@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:21:46 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tarrant - Development of Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Any opinions on Naomi Tarrant's "The Development of Costume"? TIA, --Charlene -- Macho: The strutting-and-crowing behavior of men who apparently use roosters as role models without ever wondering why there are so few of them in relation to hens. -- Bayan, Rick; The Cynic's Dictionary, 2002 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 13:40:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3EHevCE019814 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:40:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EHdlLV015177 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:39:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EHdh2L041231; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:39:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EHdfg9041070 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:39:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so306468nzp for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:39:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=o9dWZAYqRix8m7ZKPUFChJvjRke75P0zuZVYGZxb/aKWYFNLSz2aku/CkorbJHexrLMnQzJoj/kp+quhzvHaPnoesrlIO6U+mnqu08pIK6JNLQIMCzznLBO7u1vVSPoBepfDwWvCRVzE7yklNFo4vvoz4FI7jhClhD9y1QFpN0U= Received: by 10.36.59.9 with SMTP id h9mr130722nza; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.3 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:39:35 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3EHdfg9041070 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: Nice et environs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mari, Agnes, Thanks for your kind suggestions. I'd never heard of the Musee de Parfumerie (great! and very close to where we'll be) and hadnt considered a train ride out to Avignon. Very possible. You've been great help. A toute a l'heure, --cin If you will be going to Grasse (the center of the perfume industry in Provence, historically) there is a small costume museum with the traditional clothing of Provence. I would say most of the items are late 19th or early 20th C. There are some nice printed cottons and quilted petticoats that I remember. It was not expensive (perhaps free) to enter the museum and it was near the Fragonard museum of perfume (also interesting). There is another museum in the town that is one of the homes the painter Fragonard lived in, it was not as interesting and had no costumes, and very few paintings. The town itself is walkable and interesting. I don't recall any other costume collections in the area but there are many great art museums and medieval towns (Saint Paul de Vence, for instance). Bonne Vacances! If going to Nice... it's worth a side trip by train to Avignon. The Petit Palace and the Palace du Papes are there - great for imbibing of the Medieval atmosphere. Check their dates of operation... IIRC the Petit Palace is closed on Mondays... Mari _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 18:37:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3EMbZsK021991 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:37:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EMaNLV020026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:36:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EMa1ao014410; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:36:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav10.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3D3bBCf044031 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:37:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:37:06 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by BAY106-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 03:37:05 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <25EED0CA-ABCC-11D9-929A-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> Subject: Re: [h-cost] bonnet identification Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:37:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Apr 2005 03:37:06.0121 (UTC) FILETIME=[10715390:01C53FDA] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO With my limited knowledge of this time period, I'd say probably somewhere between 1800 and 1860. But I'll let others answer that much, much better :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aylwen & John" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 11:28 PM Subject: [h-cost] bonnet identification > ooops - I sent this message on the wrong subject heading.Aylwen > > > I've found this bonnet online. Can others help me identify what time > periods it could be worn in for historical re-enactments? > front - http://www.hatsupply.com/images/Bonnet.jpg > back - http://www.hatsupply.com/images/bonnetback.jpg > > Warmest Regards, > Aylwen Garden > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ~ custom made historical reproduction clothing ~ > http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/costume.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 18:44:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3EMigH5022053 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:44:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EMhVLV021706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:43:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EMhODJ021532; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:43:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3D50CSW099323 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:00:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 27481 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 05:16:25 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:16:25 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1066.24.4.69.40.1113368411.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <25EED0CA-ABCC-11D9-929A-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> References: <4.2.2.20050412184302.00dab5d0@pop.surewest.net> <25EED0CA-ABCC-11D9-929A-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] bonnet identification From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > ooops - I sent this message on the wrong subject heading.Aylwen > > > I've found this bonnet online. Can others help me identify what time > periods it could be worn in for historical re-enactments? > front - http://www.hatsupply.com/images/Bonnet.jpg > back - http://www.hatsupply.com/images/bonnetback.jpg I'm no expert, but it looks like an early to mid 1800's style to me. It would need to be dressed up with ribbons, fabric, and maybe some flowers, though. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 18:49:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3EMnCdX022100 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:49:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EMm7LV022352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:48:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EMm6kk025601; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:48:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3D6k2fd067452 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:46:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 06:45:56 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050413074027.014cb1f0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:44:00 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spannish 1770 In-Reply-To: <20050413061942.40969.qmail@web81410.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6667> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 23:19 12/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Hi All, >Recently I met a lady that was looking for someone who could make >costumes, and since I did 16th century and earlier she inquired if I >could make a colonial costume, based upon the information from the >Colonial Williamsburg site. I prepared a quote that detail how to do >the costume right, from the skin out. She's passed the information >along to a friend that would like something Spannish from the same time >period. Since I normally do 16th century and earlier, I don't have a >clue where to start with Spannish from this era. Any suggestions? > >and any suggestions on general clothing construction from this era as >well? I haven't delved to deeply yet, until I have a firm contract, >but so far it sounds like I will have it soon. "Costume Close-up" contains pictures, detailed information and patterns from the Colonial Williamsburg collection. I suggest you start there. Spanish fashion was not that different from European in general. However, I personally don't have many images. The painter to check out is Goya - but from memory he painted either high status people, or fairly low status - not a lot in between. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 18:56:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3EMuQbh022129 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:56:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EMtcLV023300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:55:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EMtX55032329; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:55:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3DHsNwn067730 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:54:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.191.3d2d7b65 (17079) for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:54:08 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <191.3d2d7b65.2f8eb6c0@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:54:08 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another overdyeing question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1201 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/12/2005 12:39:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: Did it ever appear, or any responses? I sent one....and saw it posted. I suggested you tint it in a robin's egg blue or a sea foam blue-green to "kill" the peach. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 19:05:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3EN5bEw022214 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:05:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EN43LV024539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EN40oO039449; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:04:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3E8s9G9039627 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:54:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-217-58-170.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.217.58.170]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3E8rs64012947 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:53:57 +1000 Message-ID: <005801c540cf$5dfe9320$aa3ad9cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050310022216.35773.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 155 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:29:51 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lady Satine" To: Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 12:22 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 155 > > To all the good gentles on this list, > > I am Lady Satine De La Courcel, and in seek of guidance regarding Tudor style clothing.. from the ground up. and I also would love to make the Pelican and Phoenix gowns of Queen Elizabeth I. From the ground up. I do have questions about these two gowns in particular. Other than I will have some insane beading to so...its what has attracted me to these dresses to begin with... anyone wanting to take on a challenge via e-mail for wither of these two subjects? Tudor or Elizabethan Gowns??? please feel free to e-mail me here or off list. > > Thank you. > > Lady Satine De La Courcel I know I'm over a month late with this, I've only been getting to a few of my emails for the past month or so and I'm trying to clear out the backlog. I'd suggest you start with Drea Aleed's Elizabethan Costuming page http://costume.dm.net/ and the Renaissance Tailor http://www.vertetsable.com/. If you don't know where to start Drea's site is probably better, for a basic overview of what is involved in an Elizabethan outfit from the skin out. Then once you've got an idea of exactly what you want to make the Renaissance tailor has good articles on how to go about constructing them. I'm afraid I can't point you to anything more specific as an Elizabethan outfit from the skin out is such a big project it's virtually impossible to cover the whole thing in one email (I suppose it would be possible, but why bother when there's websites that do the job better). HTH Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Beaumont | Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac | Canberra, Australia ewalpole@iimetro.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 19:11:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ENBm72022237 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:11:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ENAaLV025488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:10:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ENATZp045404; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:10:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.primushost.com (smtp2.primushost.com [209.58.220.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3EG49bv045562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:04:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DM6ov-0001rY-B1; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:03:57 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1DM6eW-0004Nb-00; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:53:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:53:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mennonite Dress In-Reply-To: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90A9106A@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, the tighter the armscye the better freedom of movement, especially with the dropped shoulder. Cutting on the bias should help the shoulder and upper arm comfort--no shoulder gathers should be needed. The gathers at the elbow are more for ease as the elbow bends. On a bit of a tangent, I have found that the slight changes of shoulder line from the 1830's through to the 1860's has progressively less freedom of movement; I find that I can move better in 1830's than 1860's. It's not a major change but I find I can dance more freely in 1830's than 1860's, especially if the man insists on turning me under his arm, something that can cause bruises on the upper arm in '60's but is ok in '30's. My pet peeve for current fashions--arm hole fit is something today's clothing makers the general public don't understand--an arm hole cut practically down to the waist makes shirts fit horribly and gives you little freedom of movement. And once they are cut that way it is almost impossible to tailor them to fit well. Glad I can make my own clothes.... Katy On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Kate Pinner wrote: >You need to have a pretty tight armseye (?) to have a tight sleeve -- >the armhole has to come up right to the armpit. > >Kate > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] >On Behalf Of Laura Morlock >Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:18 PM >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mennonite Dress > >Thank you so much, Susannah and Katy! Your information has been a lot of >help! >I'm at the library right now researching those titles you gave me, >Susannah. I >attend a Mennonite college, so they have quite a few of those works. > >Katy, you mentioned there are gathers at the elbows, but what about at >the >armpit and shoulder? That's where they're finding the most restriction >in their >movement. > >Any more information will always be appreciated. > >Thanks again! >Laura > >-- >"As long as hunger exists, peace cannot prevail." Nobel Peace Prize >winner >Willy Brandt -- www.thehungersite.com > > > > > >---------------------------------------- >This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 19:25:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ENPHTY022324 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:25:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ENMmLV026977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ENMjeQ055479; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:22:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ENMeVq055359 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:22:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pdx-ppp335.pop1.net [209.102.127.172]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA01972 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:24:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp335.pop1.net [209.102.127.172] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Message-ID: <425EFB1C.6020304@pcez.com> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:22:04 -0700 From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fabric printing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I'm looking for some help once again. I'm doing an Independent Study on printed fabric design. One of my assignments is to do a short outline on the history of printed fabric. I've been going over book over book and finding it is hard to find good facts on this subject. Do any of you have any good suggestions of books on this subject. The other part of my project is that I will be using my inkjet printer to print on specially treated fabric. I know I can use dyes and paints to colorize my printed fabrics, but I understand I can use watercolor pencils also. Is there a way to treat the fabric afterwards so the colors would not rinse out if the item got wet? Thanks again for any info. And by the way, I finally found and bought a toy horse pattern. As soon as I am done with it and it's barding, I will post some pictures of it. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 19:29:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ENTcC6022344 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:29:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ENRELV027447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:27:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ENRC4s059010; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:27:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ENRAT1058937 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:27:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LN4DLVIOQ8J6HVOQ@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:27:06 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LN4DLVEDBMJ6HVWQ@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:27:06 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:27:46 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mennonite Dress In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <425EFC72.8040903@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Katy Bishop wrote: >My pet peeve for current fashions--arm hole fit is something today's >clothing makers the general public don't understand--an arm hole cut >practically down to the waist makes shirts fit horribly and gives you >little freedom of movement. And once they are cut that way it is >almost impossible to tailor them to fit well. Glad I can make my own >clothes.... > > Even worse if you're plus-sized! -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 19:33:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ENXNC0022372 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:33:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ENWQLV027837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:32:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ENWNR4062844; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:32:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ENWKlI062802 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:32:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-70-189.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.189]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ENWJ4I028830 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:32:19 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050414163038.025f8b28@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:32:13 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric printing In-Reply-To: <425EFB1C.6020304@pcez.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Well, I'm looking for some help once again. I'm doing an Independent >Study on printed fabric design. One of my assignments is to do a short >outline on the history of printed fabric. I've been going over book over >book and finding it is hard to find good facts on this subject. Do any of >you have any good suggestions of books on this subject. The 11th Edition of the Encyclopedia Britanica has a nice article, and Davenbport's costume book has a few examples. This is a field I actually have books on, and I will dig out some names for you. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 19:35:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ENZLMh022382 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:35:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ENYJLV027941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:34:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ENYIsI064229; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:34:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ENYF9n064115 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:34:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.127]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050414233403.VSJF14321.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:34:03 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050414182437.02ba9550@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:33:57 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] Venice next week In-Reply-To: <200504142305.j3EN4s7P040277@net.indra.com> References: <200504142305.j3EN4s7P040277@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What is "Galeria del Costume"? I've been looking for a good Italian costume reference..preferably one that isn't in the thousands of dollars..... On another issue: several of you were very helpful a few months back when I was looking for the early NESAT volumes. I thought that I'd post an update. I have acquired a copy of NESAT 2, but am still waiting on ILL from the local University for NESAT 1 and NESAT 3 (while I continue searching for a copy of my own..) The local public library was totally unsuccessful in attempting to ILL them. In a few weeks I will begin the scan and image work on my copy of NESAT 2. When this is completed, I will send the proof images to Lise Bender Jorgensen. The intent is a new electronic edition... Beth At 06:05 PM 4/14/2005, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:27:06 -0700 >From: Cin >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Venice next week >To: h-cost > > > The best thing about Venice ... >is that t'aint far from Florence where the Galeria di Costumi in the >Pitti Palace has just reopened. The burial garments of Eleanor & >Cosimo are rumored to be back on display. You can pick up the 5+ >volumes of "Galeria del Costume" for sale in their wonderful bookshop. > Sure, it's "far" if you're from Manhattan, but I know you used to >live in Calif and can deal with a Californian's idea of "not far". >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 20:09:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3F09cWC022574 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:09:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F06PLV001452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:06:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F06IH0088409; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:06:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F06GAE088383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:06:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-19.sonic.net [209.148.113.19]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F06FtO024197 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:06:16 -0700 Message-ID: <425F0579.4050500@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:06:17 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another overdyeing question References: <191.3d2d7b65.2f8eb6c0@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <191.3d2d7b65.2f8eb6c0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, Fran AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 4/12/2005 12:39:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >fran@lavoltapress.com writes: > >Did it ever appear, or any >responses? > > > >I sent one....and saw it posted. I suggested you tint it in a robin's egg >blue or a sea foam blue-green to "kill" the peach. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 20:35:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3F0ZOPJ022735 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:35:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F0Y3LV004609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F0XvfY008328; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:33:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F0XrHN008227 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:33:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m95.in-tch.com [216.166.191.95]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j3F0Tb408359 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:29:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <425F0D32.2020604@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:39:14 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century shirt edging References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050414003021.014cbef8@127.0.0.1> <06c301c54107$ae3850f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <06c301c54107$ae3850f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, the embroidery on the 1540s shirt is a pretty respectable blue. I've got some wonderful closeups from a couple of embroidery texts, and the edge of the collar is clearly oversewn with something resembling a buttonhole stitch, with the added bonus of a tiny, matching cord being held on the edge of the collar with the same buttonhole stitches. I've done some minor experimenting on recreating that sort of edging (which actually first caught my eye many, many years ago, when I was reproducing the blackworked sleeves in Holbein's portrait of Queen Jane), and it's really not that difficult, even if you add in the little picots that show in a lot of paintings ;o). I've got a couple of close-ups of sleeves and seams that I'll try to dig up in the next couple of days, to see what the authors say about the edgings and how they're made. IIRC, all the ones I've seen close enough to actually squint at the edges/seams have been a finished edge. I'd imagine that for a square-necked shift, you'd either do a narrow hem, or perhaps some sort of narrow facing. --sue (certified needlework geek) E House wrote: > Thank you Suzi, that is helpful--and makes me feel better about my efforts! > > I've been looking at the photos I have of extant chemises and shirts > with a fresh eye, and finding some details I missed before. The Nils > Sture shirt, for example, had some features that look like they were > hemmed with techniques similar to the chemises in the paintings, > particularly the teeny tiny black edging on the collar and cuffs. A > 1540s boy's shirt at the V&A (? going on memory here) shown on Nicole > Kipar's website has the same tiny black edging, and on both (at least > from the photos I have) it looks like there's no other finish to the > fabric edge. Of course, on both of those, the edges in question could > be the fabric's selvedge, which wouldn't be possible on the sort of > square-neck chemise I'm trying to reproduce. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 21:28:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3F1S7Qc022974 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:28:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F1R2LV010026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F1QnDB044690; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:26:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F1QVxw044461 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:26:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.87.2593789a (3699) for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:26:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <87.2593789a.2f90723e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:26:22 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tarrant - Development of Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One of my favourite books (although being honest it's years since I've actually read it properly). Particularly good for concise descriptions and explanations, and the large bibliography. It was on my college reading list (costume history module). Debbie. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 14 22:55:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3F2tpF2023334 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:55:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F2sjLV018422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F2sUkl005333; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:54:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F2sO9h005214 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:54:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MaddNancy@aol.com) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.1e2.39f7edeb (3310) for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:54:02 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <1e2.39f7edeb.2f9086ca@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:54:02 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5116 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 15th century shirt edging X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/14/2005 7:08:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: I've never examined an extant chemise I had the opportunity last year to see a fragment of the shirt of that Giuliano di Medici was allegedly wearing when assassinated (Wonders Exhibit - Memphis). The piece was folded so that you could see part of both the front and the back. The fabric was indeed very fine as was the thread that it was sewn with. The gathering threads were still there on the pleats - much finer than the thread we're used to using. Although I looked very hard (I kept turning around to go back to look at it again!), I never was able to actually see the stitches in the hem at the top of the shirt. I have been working on a chemise using some of the techniques I saw in the shirt, using an extremely fine cotton and cotton thread. After having done rolled hem stitch on both sleeves before doing the neckline I can attest that much practice makes a huge difference. I've managed to reduce the hem by at least half - it's done to on average 1.4 mm - and it's barely visible along the top edge. One of the keys was trimming the top edge right before I rolled it so that there were no extraneous threads in the hem. Nancy Stengel Ulmer aka Maddalena Salutati in the SCA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 00:08:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3F48tES023610 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:08:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F47sLV024607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:07:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F47kmN054575; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:07:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41906.mail.yahoo.com (web41906.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3F47iA6054484 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:07:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 17150 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2005 04:07:39 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=l+hTjLhHpevlOrcIqiJggeIs9isPTCH+NomRCeSaDpQkRH6ew14bnsAOV4lSdNmoTOjOJnCwwUTL+X1cZtknT7VWxv46VGzVKUn1Jt7686Ld2nk4my0lydNsyG+hm/gkahalP42gvxpi6GvwsM2vjfIktIUUIe5nWd6lxfp1YT8= ; Message-ID: <20050415040739.17148.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.148] by web41906.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:07:39 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:07:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Still lagging memos?????? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I Know! Mega RLOL!!!!!! Satine Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >Speaking of things not related to SCA... Does anyone know where I can find >a Original Battlestar Galactica Colonial Warrior Uniform Patterns???? >Must be the Original 1977 TV series pattern....If it exists... 1977 - that's historical. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 00:09:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3F49jR1023620 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:09:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F48sLV024764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F48rdc055429; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:08:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41905.mail.yahoo.com (web41905.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3F48pHV055330 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:08:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 53284 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2005 04:08:46 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Y0BmwIE9Dw04RXftxStuDJIxUr/HMG9Ob/0mR+rsUcxvWFfoKyFi3NO58BD7Xlwkxy4mwnO6qWsAVnwx4hw3019A608eaFQOTyynzXalj5jYfrIQTP0Pcts72/nUznDfe7433RCy457aJzmecNEfn4EvasE9h5yvoUYXdxce26o= ; Message-ID: <20050415040846.53282.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.148] by web41905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:08:46 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:08:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan and Yahoo groups (WAS: Re: Pet peeves) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks I will check it out! Satine Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: Another Yahoo group to check out would be europe16thc Cheers, Danielle At 10:37 PM 4/13/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Thought I sent this out a few days ago... > >At Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:12:36 -0700 (PDT), Lady Satine > wrote: > >>When I asked a friennd about elizabethan I was referred here.... and told >>this is teh best site for help with that subject. > >For Elizabethan specifically, you might also want to check out the >ElizabethanClothing Yahoo group. Traffic there ebbs and flows, but tends >to center around trying to re/deconstruct authentic Elizabethan clothing. >Most of the regulars are involved in SCA or ren faires (patrons, >playtrons, cast), or are otherwise interesed in constructing garments from >scratch. >HTH, > >Brenda >webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 00:12:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3F4CFY4023635 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:12:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F4BWLV025302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F4BWGS057533; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:11:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41902.mail.yahoo.com (web41902.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3F4BVsO057455 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:11:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 52791 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2005 04:11:25 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=6fJ1zuYByI1nS22o4jcZ3GplIBVQnibQbXGETOj2PkyxRR3nGXMmWN+/J/sd8/fNQIqASuol5G8Um1ZWcX9qSL38XU5xZKVbxu/jwmC5HOlefQ2XKr0W3KZfyplP/s/DVCNt9RhatvHI6jVpAoyhtkyyfsJj8NQyJ0vaRh5ZsDw= ; Message-ID: <20050415041125.52789.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.148] by web41902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:11:25 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:11:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Still lagging memos?????? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had to ask!!!! I Figured if anyone would have a clue it would be here!..... The 7 year old who wants it for Haloween asked me to make that Battlestar Galatica... (What he said). Pre Star Wars Fighter suit!1 ya know the orginal tv thing....... I thought it was cute.. I just had to ask!!!!!! Satine! Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >Speaking of things not related to SCA... Does anyone know where I can find >a Original Battlestar Galactica Colonial Warrior Uniform Patterns???? >Must be the Original 1977 TV series pattern....If it exists... 1977 - that's historical. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 00:41:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3F4fToq023744 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:41:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F4e3LV027236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F4dvcL075093; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:39:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F4drlp075055 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:39:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-43-190.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.43.190]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F4Zubb013812 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:35:57 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050414213723.024cb168@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:38:11 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Still lagging memos?????? In-Reply-To: <20050415041125.52789.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6667> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I had to ask!!!! I Figured if anyone would have a clue it would be >here!..... The 7 year old who wants it for Haloween asked me to make that >Battlestar Galatica... (What he said). Pre Star Wars Fighter suit!1 ya >know the orginal tv thing....... I thought it was cute.. I just had to >ask!!!!!! If you really want to know, get ahold of an episode of it and watch it. I never did watch that show, so I can't be of any help here. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 00:53:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3F4rdor023790 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:53:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F4qoLV028374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:52:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F4qlwZ083305; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:52:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41901.mail.yahoo.com (web41901.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.152]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3F4qk2s083217 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:52:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 7492 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2005 04:52:40 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=F1ortRgUsTC6XjGteGOc3MyKJuyfXIP8RFkvd0CNZm8Ajb8Hh/BuGkCj42YMOg047p2DLZvvo8iJG9vDKMM6PllMGjxgpbPbiPir1le4cA6NXSkz0uvi6GRrmtN94hGQRte1lrrq3oamDN9SyC0wBeMeQZMS9OABmR0mcOrLxWs= ; Message-ID: <20050415045240.7490.qmail@web41901.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.148] by web41901.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:52:40 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:52:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Still lagging memos?????? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That was my first thought....I have the series on DVD and a Broked DVD player... Noone I know in this neck of the woods likes the "old" series they are all into the new one on SCI FI Channel.. I will keep looking now back to lurking and looking at teh archives.. Satine Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >I had to ask!!!! I Figured if anyone would have a clue it would be >here!..... The 7 year old who wants it for Haloween asked me to make that >Battlestar Galatica... (What he said). Pre Star Wars Fighter suit!1 ya >know the orginal tv thing....... I thought it was cute.. I just had to >ask!!!!!! If you really want to know, get ahold of an episode of it and watch it. I never did watch that show, so I can't be of any help here. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 02:28:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3F6SkWQ004738 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 02:28:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F6RqLV004324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:27:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F6Rb7C040782; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:27:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F6RMMU040536 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:27:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3F6R1u11960 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 02:27:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:29:00 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20050415045240.7490.qmail@web41901.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Battlestar was: Still lagging memos?????? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here are some websites... http://www.kobol.com/costumes/c02.html well ok, just one, but some good shots of 3 costumes, but not the one you want.. Althea On Thursday, April 14, 2005, at 09:52 PM, Lady Satine wrote: > That was my first thought....I have the series on DVD and a Broked DVD > player... Noone I know in this neck of the woods likes the "old" > series they are all into the new one on SCI FI Channel.. I will keep > looking now back to lurking and looking at teh archives.. > > Satine > > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> I had to ask!!!! I Figured if anyone would have a clue it would be >> here!..... The 7 year old who wants it for Haloween asked me to make >> that >> Battlestar Galatica... (What he said). Pre Star Wars Fighter suit!1 ya >> know the orginal tv thing....... I thought it was cute.. I just had to >> ask!!!!!! > > If you really want to know, get ahold of an episode of it and watch > it. I > never did watch that show, so I can't be of any help here. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 03:40:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3F7eq6v014592 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 03:40:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F7dsLV009437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 01:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F7dlCj088453; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 01:39:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41803.mail.yahoo.com (web41803.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3F7djq7088364 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 01:39:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 63011 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2005 07:39:40 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=EHQZotgB25Le9Oq/VBapr/keBNU5ZTQ2eNg6CG0SgzbdyqeYo7kYUbQpaf2iM0Wfc8VIis9vN0eW68gZFzrq61p3R3SgVpmwRQpWLUOWxCL7G47beYQFtf3DFrKUL7PKtvu4FYYUwegRkvaXRHMJvA9qOcnd9Qy5CPtszPfRDps= ; Message-ID: <20050415073940.63009.qmail@web41803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41803.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:39:40 PDT Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:39:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Still lagging memos?????? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a friend who "did" Battlestar at Cons in the 70's...I'll ask her if she remember how they made theirs. Or you can contact her directly: Janet at Valcho@comcast.net put Battlestar Costume on the header so she knows what it is about. Melody --- Lady Satine wrote: > > Does anyone> know where I can find a Original Battlestar> Galactica Colonial Warrior Uniform Patterns???? > Must be the Original 1977 TV series pattern....If it > exists... > > Satine! > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 04:54:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3F8sQks015346 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 04:54:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F8rZLV013005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 02:53:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3F8rONT033526; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 02:53:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.135]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3F8rLFk033451 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 02:53:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dor_mous@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 14269 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2005 08:53:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20050415085315.14266.qmail@web25401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [132.185.144.122] by web25401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:53:15 BST Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:53:15 +0100 (BST) From: Dor Mous To: h-costume@net.indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504142307.j3EN4s7R040277@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 248 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What is IS Bishop's lawn from Jersey? h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century shirt edging To: Historical Costume At 14:05 13/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: >The linen is not as fine as the Bishop's Lawn from Jersey. Suzi Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 07:28:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FBSPNN016112 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:28:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FBRSLV004799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FBRGBd031770; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:27:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FBRCrP031636 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:27:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A50611960114; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:27:02 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.117 ([209.131.81.117] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 15 Apr 05 11:27:00 -0000 Message-ID: <005901c541ae$49945520$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <425EFB1C.6020304@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric printing Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:28:42 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Two recent books that I have found on this subject: Toile by Michele Palmer America's Printed Fabrics 1770-1890 by Barbara Brackman (This has a list of all her previous books.) World Textiles;John Gallow and Byran Sentance There is also an earlier book (maybe 1950's 60's) that I have that is not on my shelf at the moment. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rose Amberwulf" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:22 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fabric printing > Well, I'm looking for some help once again. I'm doing an Independent > Study on printed fabric design. One of my assignments is to do a short > outline on the history of printed fabric. I've been going over book > over book and finding it is hard to find good facts on this subject. Do > any of you have any good suggestions of books on this subject. > > The other part of my project is that I will be using my inkjet printer > to print on specially treated fabric. I know I can use dyes and paints > to colorize my printed fabrics, but I understand I can use watercolor > pencils also. Is there a way to treat the fabric afterwards so the > colors would not rinse out if the item got wet? > > Thanks again for any info. And by the way, I finally found and bought a > toy horse pattern. As soon as I am done with it and it's barding, I > will post some pictures of it. > > Roscelin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 10:07:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FE7MaM017403 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:07:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FE6KLV015137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:06:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FE6BxA050465; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:06:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3FE67Eb050299 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:06:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2005041510055922655 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:05:59 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id j3FE5u0j022248 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <063701c541c4$4ce15b40$4aa810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:06:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1800's Shoulder line (was Mennonite Dress) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can see the shoulder line move thru the 1830's to 1860's, but I am looking for 1820's (specifically 1820-1822). Does anyone know a good source for images from 1810 to 1825 or so? And what does one call this transition period ? Kate Pinner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Bishop" > > Yes, the tighter the armscye the better freedom of movement, especially > with the dropped shoulder. Cutting on the bias should help the shoulder > and upper arm comfort--no shoulder gathers should be needed. The > gathers at the elbow are more for ease as the elbow bends. > > On a bit of a tangent, I have found that the slight changes of shoulder > line from the 1830's through to the 1860's has progressively less > freedom of movement; I find that I can move better in 1830's than > 1860's. . >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 10:10:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FEAP9g017427 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:10:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FE9VLV015375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:09:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FE9Vxn053323; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:09:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FE9BMr052933 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:09:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id AB00E95013E; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:09:04 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.102 ([209.131.81.102] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 15 Apr 05 14:09:03 -0000 Message-ID: <009501c541c4$ec4b9920$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:10:46 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Film title? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3FEAP9g017427 Status: RO I am trying to remember the name of a 'period' film , 18thC?. It begins with R (Restoration, Revolution...) Any one Know? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 10:14:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FEERBU017448 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:14:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FEDZLV015718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:13:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FEDT9x056873; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:13:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FEDR8V056809 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:13:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18626 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:13:24 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Film title? Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:13:23 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Film title? Thread-Index: AcVBxMGYnHmFtoVASj29QEb9NWbGuQAAFJzw From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3FEDR8V056809 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If the movie had Robert Downey Jr and Meg Ryan in it and was set in 1660's England, the movie was Restoration. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:11 AM To: H-Costume Subject: [h-cost] Film title? I am trying to remember the name of a 'period' film , 18thC?. It begins with R (Restoration, Revolution...) Any one Know? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 10:17:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FEH2C7017464 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:17:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FEGDLV015925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:16:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FEGC1L059357; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:16:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FEG9B2059268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:16:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FEG8AG097017 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:16:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j3FEG8aQ097016 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:16:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 65.93.27.182 ( [65.93.27.182]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:16:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1113574568.425fcca80f4a5@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:16:08 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 65.93.27.182 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: shoulder line X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Linda Baumgarten's book "What Clothes Reveal" is predominantly around 1790, but there is a section in the back which covers that time. I highly recommend the book to anyone interested in historic costume of any time - it's really excellent. Laura -- "As long as hunger exists, peace cannot prevail." Nobel Peace Prize winner Willy Brandt -- www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 11:15:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FFFMs0017874 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:15:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FFE6LV021719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FFE0R7012027; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:14:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FFDv7S011962 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:13:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from JRB2 (CPE-65-28-189-254.neb.res.rr.com [65.28.189.254]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j3FF0XCi027036 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:00:34 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric printing Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:14:08 -0500 Message-ID: <009d01c541cd$c6147de0$6501a8c0@JRB2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <425EFB1C.6020304@pcez.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Down by the Old Mill Stream, by Linda Welters and Margaret Ordonez has some very good info on printed fabrics. Kim in ND -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Rose Amberwulf Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:22 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Fabric printing Well, I'm looking for some help once again. I'm doing an Independent Study on printed fabric design. One of my assignments is to do a short outline on the history of printed fabric. I've been going over book over book and finding it is hard to find good facts on this subject. Do any of you have any good suggestions of books on this subject. The other part of my project is that I will be using my inkjet printer to print on specially treated fabric. I know I can use dyes and paints to colorize my printed fabrics, but I understand I can use watercolor pencils also. Is there a way to treat the fabric afterwards so the colors would not rinse out if the item got wet? Thanks again for any info. And by the way, I finally found and bought a toy horse pattern. As soon as I am done with it and it's barding, I will post some pictures of it. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 11:15:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FFFMlQ017875 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:15:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FFE6LV021718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FFDoHX011877; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:13:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FFDmEq011784 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:13:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.21.177] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DMSVt-0008Tk-4b for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:13:46 -0400 Message-ID: <00b101c541cd$b6bb8190$b1159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <009501c541c4$ec4b9920$665183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Film title? Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:12:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b93eeae268825d237af306945381e7b6d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.21.177 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen wrote: I am trying to remember the name of a 'period' film , 18thC?. It begins with R (Restoration, Revolution...) Any one Know? There was a 17c. movie with Robert Downey Jr, Sam Neill, and Meg Ryan set just after Cromwell called "Restoration". There was an 18c. movie with Al Pacino and Donald Sutherland set during the American Revolution called "Revolution". -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 13:11:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FHB2A6019170 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:11:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FH9uLV007357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FH9kdh023181; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:09:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FH9iII023146 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:09:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 576F23FE17 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 1ED557266; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:09:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Battlestar was: Still lagging memos?????? X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.73] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCX/VUAAESGAEAAAAB,29470a15443c5ad70b13a0580be42e0f Message-Id: <20050415170940.1ED557266@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can't believe anyone who saw the first Battlestar could like this new mess. These people hate each other and they fight each other more than they do the Cylons. And females as Starbuck and Boomer (who was never a Cylon in the fist series)? YUCK!!! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Althea Turner wrote: From: Althea Turner Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:29:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Battlestar was: Still lagging memos?????? Here are some websites... http://www.kobol.com/costumes/c02.html well ok, just one, but some good shots of 3 costumes, but not the one you want.. Althea On Thursday, April 14, 2005, at 09:52 PM, Lady Satine wrote: > That was my first thought....I have the series on DVD and a Broked DVD > player... Noone I know in this neck of the woods likes the "old" > series they are all into the new one on SCI FI Channel.. I will keep > looking now back to lurking and looking at teh archives.. > > Satine > > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> I had to ask!!!! I Figured if anyone would have a clue it would be >> here!..... The 7 year old who wants it for Haloween asked me to make >> that >> Battlestar Galatica... (What he said). Pre Star Wars Fighter suit!1 ya >> know the orginal tv thing....... I thought it was cute.. I just had to >> ask!!!!!! > > If you really want to know, get ahold of an episode of it and watch > it. I > never did watch that show, so I can't be of any help here. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 13:46:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FHk5TU019512 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:46:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FHivLV013956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FHipkB058406; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:44:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41903.mail.yahoo.com (web41903.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.154]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3FHimB8058262 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:44:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 81297 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2005 17:44:43 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=njM32GIVSOFZKTEIHYbCFfv8EcuOWawRNQJP7Z86m9dOeCFeg15eXO2kGxuvXiMqFg8ybbjKN+2/mS6EtXlys7mC7IEE7oC5FYyv8/mwUpPt5ej5P9Cg4HfQz+PsMPA9mnVM/mv5bG87JUOF2jw1m3WoK4PRHWY9ggcRExi50eI= ; Message-ID: <20050415174443.81295.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.104] by web41903.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:44:43 PDT Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:44:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Battlestar was: Still lagging memos?????? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL!!!! Be good Be good Be gooddd TGIF>>>>>>> Satine Lalah wrote: I can't believe anyone who saw the first Battlestar could like this new mess. These people hate each other and they fight each other more than they do the Cylons. And females as Starbuck and Boomer (who was never a Cylon in the fist series)? YUCK!!! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Althea Turner wrote: From: Althea Turner Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:29:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Battlestar was: Still lagging memos?????? Here are some websites... http://www.kobol.com/costumes/c02.html well ok, just one, but some good shots of 3 costumes, but not the one you want.. Althea On Thursday, April 14, 2005, at 09:52 PM, Lady Satine wrote: > That was my first thought....I have the series on DVD and a Broked DVD > player... Noone I know in this neck of the woods likes the "old" > series they are all into the new one on SCI FI Channel.. I will keep > looking now back to lurking and looking at teh archives.. > > Satine > > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> I had to ask!!!! I Figured if anyone would have a clue it would be >> here!..... The 7 year old who wants it for Haloween asked me to make >> that >> Battlestar Galatica... (What he said). Pre Star Wars Fighter suit!1 ya >> know the orginal tv thing....... I thought it was cute.. I just had to >> ask!!!!!! > > If you really want to know, get ahold of an episode of it and watch > it. I > never did watch that show, so I can't be of any help here. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 13:47:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FHlmum019527 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:47:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FHl2LV014411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FHl2Qj060631; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:47:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41907.mail.yahoo.com (web41907.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3FHkxD9060500 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:46:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 41445 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2005 17:46:53 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=FBN6Jbn8br7hgUEf3Cufg1uEv4YW6lH9HeG3y+PISPRX2OSe6H3H1ex9sI//wv0dLQfrQKMVyJM7l2C8/vnNSgiuFZ2dfOZjVvypYAmNhuPfstyD9jBKgKXOYQw+nNIPOOxlERT9eoGX69Ypcd22xnKrBcxdL2Ndco2Te/nR62Q= ; Message-ID: <20050415174653.41443.qmail@web41907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.104] by web41907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:46:53 PDT Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:46:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Still lagging memos?????? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you!!!!! I will get ahold of her next week... I will be out of town for a few days... Thanks again Satine Melody Watts wrote: I have a friend who "did" Battlestar at Cons in the 70's...I'll ask her if she remember how they made theirs. Or you can contact her directly: Janet at Valcho@comcast.net put Battlestar Costume on the header so she knows what it is about. Melody --- Lady Satine wrote: > > Does anyone> know where I can find a Original Battlestar> Galactica Colonial Warrior Uniform Patterns???? > Must be the Original 1977 TV series pattern....If it > exists... > > Satine! > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 14:58:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FIwqfL020088 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:58:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FIvRLV021462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FIv6lg025719; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:57:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FIv1jf025565 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:57:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id AE77F2008E; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:56:55 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.110 ([209.131.81.110] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 15 Apr 05 18:56:53 -0000 Message-ID: <003f01c541ed$2293e6e0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f7e0571f80475.1f804751f7e057@optonline.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Horse pattern Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:58:37 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Roscelin, Do you still have the child's horse pattern I sent you earlier this Spring? My grandson is wanting a horse and you have my tissue pattern which I sent for your perusal.... Sigh, Kathleen Mitchell 411 East Chestnut Street Washington, Pa 15301 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Horse pattern > There is/was a vogue pattern that looked ok(by my standards at least) > > Pattern V7603, and you can look at the -picture at > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/voguepatterns/shop.cgi?s.item.V7603=x&TI=20016&pageNum=3 > > jordana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: roscelin > Date: Sunday, February 13, 2005 2:52 am > Subject: [h-cost] Horse pattern > > > This is for the doll folks. I'm looking for a pattern to make a > > life-like > > soft schulpture horse. Not life size, but life like; don't want > > anything that > > looks cartoonish. I'm planning on making barding and possibly > > armour for it. > > > > I've already looked through the internet; either I'm not using > > the correct > > search terms or something but can't locate a pattern for a horse. > > Thanks! > > > > Roscelin > > > > ------------------- > > http://www.pcez.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 15:06:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FJ6rRH020132 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:06:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FJ61LV022489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FJ61ij033791; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:06:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3FJ5sVu033686 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:05:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 13434 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2005 19:22:30 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:22:30 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1230.24.4.69.40.1113591953.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <1113574568.425fcca80f4a5@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> References: <1113574568.425fcca80f4a5@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shoulder line From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Linda Baumgarten's book "What Clothes Reveal" is predominantly around > 1790, but > there is a section in the back which covers that time. I highly recommend > the > book to anyone interested in historic costume of any time - it's really > excellent. I just bought this book and it is GREAT! Lots of different things and lots of great close-up color pictures. Thumbs up! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 15:08:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FJ8S3p020144 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:08:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FJ7mLV022612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:07:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FJ7lAG035525; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:07:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FJ7ht0035373 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:07:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A0F9E60080; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:07:37 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.110 ([209.131.81.110] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 15 Apr 05 19:07:36 -0000 Message-ID: <005001c541ee$a16b1aa0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:09:19 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] another film X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3FJ8S3p020144 Status: RO I am collecting entertainment for the summer... Thanks much for the Restoration title! Now I am looking for a film that takes place in Shakespeare's time. The plot line includes the girl (or women) being trained by a man who usually plays women's roles. NOT Shakespeare in Love. I heard this being reviewed on NPR last summer, and of course it will never appear at any theater in my neighborhood!! Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 15:09:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FJ9QfO020150 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:09:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FJ3cLV022193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FJ3YnC031452; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:03:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FJ3V8H031263 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:03:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DMW68-000H4n-7B for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:03:24 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:02:17 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:the bonnet References: <200504131802.j3DI1fMr075459@net.indra.com> <20050413205313.70280.qmail@web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050413205313.70280.qmail@web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<$o4N+N3T4zNzcF4tzBjTWmMFeZ>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting! Knowing absolutely nothing about any period with bonnets, looking at it I thought, "it's 1950s!" The way the edge curves inwards at the last moment, instead of continuing the flare. If you had to guess who would wear it, it would be Audrey Hepburn. So, people who suggested dates in the 1800s - is it a "good enough for the look" or are there examples with that turned-in edge? Jean Mia Dappert wrote > >To me this is one of the "IT DEPENDS" answers > >If you are doing it for the costume, and the look of, early to mid >1800's is probably good. I'm thinking Dicken's Fairs( is that right? >We don't have them here in Charlotte, NC) and swanning around garb at a >Am Civ War renactment. > >If you are doing it for someone who is a bit more into the "authentic" >end, it probably would not suffice for anything. ( well maybe >pre-1840s, I don't know those shapes as well as 1840s-1860s.) For the >more authentically minded there are better (if probably more expensive >alternatives) > >This will probably get something stirred up as the above reply sounds >slightly holier than thou, but my personal journey is leading me to the >more authentic, rather than the costume. I love hearing about the >costumers among us, and their perspective and learning from the many >helpful hints that have gotten ME out of several binds My decision for >myself are leaning to the authentic and progressive (a current Am Civ >War term that I find the best definition (to me) means "our clothing , >material culture and demenor is progressing to what we hope is a more >authentic level.). > >Keep on will all the good comments. This is how we learn > >Mia in Charlotte > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 15:19:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FJJI4t020206 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:19:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FJIFLV023445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:18:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FJIBo3045040; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:18:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FJI398044824 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:18:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.15a.4ec423dc (16087) for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mblk-r18 (mblk-r18.mblk.aol.com [152.163.179.8]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID104-3ed74260135d1e; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:17:49 -0400 Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:17:49 -0400 Message-Id: <8C71006F2864463-F0-3A7B3@mblk-r18.sysops.aol.com> From: chindora@aol.com References: <005001c541ee$a16b1aa0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> Received: from 68.153.231.89 by mblk-r18.sysops.aol.com (152.163.179.8) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:17:49 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <005001c541ee$a16b1aa0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.0.0.12132 Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.179.8 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That was Stage Beauty, with Claire Danes and Billy Crudup. I enjoyed it, for what that matters. ~Kimberley -----Original Message----- From: Lloyd Mitchell To: H-Costume Sent: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:09:19 -0400 Subject: [h-cost] another film I am collecting entertainment for the summer... Thanks much for the Restoration title! Now I am looking for a film that takes place in Shakespeare's time. The plot line includes the girl (or women) being trained by a man who usually plays women's roles. NOT Shakespeare in Love. I heard this being reviewed on NPR last summer, and of course it will never appear at any theater in my neighborhood!! Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 15:48:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FJmVeN020488 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:48:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FJliLV026629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:47:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FJla2H072204; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FJlW3g072125 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:47:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j3FJlTja018487 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050415132142.01994418@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:47:29 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] vikings + bliaut thinking... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi folks... I went and did a bit more looking into this area - it's a new perspective and thought I would share it. The dates and the geography do make for some interesting thinking as to just what cultural influences might have been lurking in the background. I'm using a 40 year generation as a real dirty sense of time. We can argue that validity separately. First of all a quick time line. 800s - the Danes and Norwegians start raiding up the Seine and the Loire valleys. Making it to the foot of Paris in a few instances. 911 - Charles the Bald and Hrolfur (aka Rollo) Make a treaty with one another where the Danes/Norsemen get the area of the Siene, and areas of the North West portion of France that they have been using as periodic bases for raids since the 850s - as long as they provide protection to the area from other Norse, and convert to Christianity. Among the areas that are ceded to the Norse are Rouen, Le Mans, Angers, Dijon, St. Denis, Chartres, Caen, Bayeux (coincidence that these are also the areas that are pointed to as illustrations of the Bliaut?) 950s - a grave dating to this time period. A female grave in the Christian tradition - but the skeleton was wearing Danish oval brooches in traditional Norse style. (one generation from succession) 980s - the word Dux (Duke) is applied to the area now being nown as Normandy. (two generations from succession) 1050s - Earliest form of the Bliaut or proto-Bliaut reported by Grace Payne in the CA#124 as mid-11th century on the Crucifixion scene from the Gospels of Judith of Flanders. (I would point out that this region was also heavily influenced by Norse and Danish trade and custom, as it is just to the east of the area surrendered to the Danes by the French and just to the South of the Danish homelands.) (four generations from succession) 1150s - this is the height of the fashion. And the period of sculpture that contains most of the sculptural references. (eight generations from succession) I have some more looking to do... but so far the sculptural school of Northern France, at this time, seems to have more in common with the Northern non-French tradition than other Southern French traditions. Anyone have more resources to look at... at the moment only sculptural resources please. It's interesting and raises many many more questions. Undoubtedly there was intermarriage, and mingling of the cultures but where did the main body of the developing Norman culture look to... The familiar North of the conquering Danes, or the Southern Frankish culture. The sculptors of the figures - what was their influence? Lots of interesting thinking ... Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 16:02:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FK27as020592 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:02:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FK0ULV027969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FK0Lal084097; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:00:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FJxxOR083651 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:00:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12164 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:15:18 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:15:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] vikings + bliaut thinking... In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20050415132142.01994418@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 15 Apr 2005, M Stewart wrote: > It's interesting and raises many many more questions. Undoubtedly > there was intermarriage, and mingling of the cultures but where did > the main body of the developing Norman culture look to... The > familiar North of the conquering Danes, or the Southern Frankish > culture. This is an interesting line of thought, and one I'd never heard (though I don't do much work in this area). Still, I have to wonder how "familiar" the north seemed to a population that had emigrated more than 200 years before. I think I'd need to see some clear lines of influence in other cultural areas -- e.g. language, literature, or other traditions -- before I'd be willing to think that an otherwise anomalous fashion had its roots in that direction. E.g. do Norse literary traditions or storylines have any presence in French courtly romance? (The influence of a finite quantity of fabrics brought back from Crusade on French court garments seems like it would have a more immediate impact, so as theories go, you'd have to beat that.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 16:28:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FKSmv5020806 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:28:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FKRsLV000996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:27:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FKRcgJ008900; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:27:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FKRJRk008690 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:27:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.21.249] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DMXPK-0006W2-IU for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:27:19 -0400 Message-ID: <00fa01c541f9$8407e820$f9159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005001c541ee$a16b1aa0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:27:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b051fc041fec5809333a96fc17e5bfc72350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.21.249 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen wrote: Now I am looking for a film that takes place in Shakespeare's time. The plot line includes the girl (or women) being trained by a man who usually plays women's roles. NOT Shakespeare in Love. I heard this being reviewed on NPR last summer, and of course it will never appear at any theater in my neighborhood!! You're probably thinking of "Stage Beauty" with Billy Crudup, Claire Danes, and Rupert Everett, which came out last year. It's set in the same time period as "Restoration", not Shakespeare, although some of his plays are referenced. Charles II was the monarch who changed the rules and allowed women to act on stage. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 16:30:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FKU10e020814 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:30:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FKTELV001286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:29:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FKT87v010070; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:29:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FKSuG4009787 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:29:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A3FC1070096; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:28:44 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.103 ([209.131.81.103] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 15 Apr 05 20:28:43 -0000 Message-ID: <001101c541f9$f6dd7d60$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200504131802.j3DI1fMr075459@net.indra.com><20050413205313.70280.qmail@web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:the bonnet Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:30:27 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would say "No". That is the part that needs to be reblocked for the early1800s. And 1950's? Not at all. large hats of that period were On the head and not around it. The tapered brim is attempting to "do" for the mid 19thC, I'd say. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Waddie" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:the bonnet > Interesting! Knowing absolutely nothing about any period with bonnets, > looking at it I thought, "it's 1950s!" The way the edge curves inwards > at the last moment, instead of continuing the flare. If you had to > guess who would wear it, it would be Audrey Hepburn. > > So, people who suggested dates in the 1800s - is it a "good enough for > the look" or are there examples with that turned-in edge? > > Jean > > > Mia Dappert wrote > > > >To me this is one of the "IT DEPENDS" answers > > > >If you are doing it for the costume, and the look of, early to mid > >1800's is probably good. I'm thinking Dicken's Fairs( is that right? > >We don't have them here in Charlotte, NC) and swanning around garb at a > >Am Civ War renactment. > > > >If you are doing it for someone who is a bit more into the "authentic" > >end, it probably would not suffice for anything. ( well maybe > >pre-1840s, I don't know those shapes as well as 1840s-1860s.) For the > >more authentically minded there are better (if probably more expensive > >alternatives) > > > >This will probably get something stirred up as the above reply sounds > >slightly holier than thou, but my personal journey is leading me to the > >more authentic, rather than the costume. I love hearing about the > >costumers among us, and their perspective and learning from the many > >helpful hints that have gotten ME out of several binds My decision for > >myself are leaning to the authentic and progressive (a current Am Civ > >War term that I find the best definition (to me) means "our clothing , > >material culture and demenor is progressing to what we hope is a more > >authentic level.). > > > >Keep on will all the good comments. This is how we learn > > > >Mia in Charlotte > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 16:33:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FKXSlA020826 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:33:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FKWbLV001829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:32:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FKWQlT012928; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:32:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FKVY7G012340 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:32:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A49F21C007C; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:31:27 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.103 ([209.131.81.103] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 15 Apr 05 20:31:26 -0000 Message-ID: <001d01c541fa$58085e20$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005001c541ee$a16b1aa0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> <8C71006F2864463-F0-3A7B3@mblk-r18.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:33:10 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mercie! I kept thinking "Stage Door" and knew that that wasn't it at all Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film > > That was Stage Beauty, with Claire Danes and Billy Crudup. I enjoyed it, for what that matters. > > ~Kimberley > -----Original Message----- > From: Lloyd Mitchell > To: H-Costume > Sent: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:09:19 -0400 > Subject: [h-cost] another film > > > I am collecting entertainment for the summer... > Thanks much for the Restoration title! > Now I am looking for a film that takes place in Shakespeare's time. The plot > line includes the girl (or women) being trained by a man who usually plays > women's roles. NOT Shakespeare in Love. > I heard this being reviewed on NPR last summer, and of course it will never > appear at any theater in my neighborhood!! > Kathleen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 18:48:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FMm5ZD021784 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:48:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FMkxLV020733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FMkdJD031650; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:46:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FMkUst031499 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:46:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Susannah9810@aol.com) Received: from Susannah9810@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.1dd.3b46f15e (4362) for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:46:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Susannah9810@aol.com Message-ID: <1dd.3b46f15e.2f919e3c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:46:20 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1800's Shoulder line (was Mennonite Dress) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have examined quite a few 1820s gowns in my time. This is absolutely my favorite period, and very few sites do it in my neck of the woods. The shoulder is not really that different from the Regency period. It is pulled back and the back pieces are small. There is a great Past Patterns 1820s gown pattern called the Lowell Mill Girl dress. It is typical of work gowns. And yes, they did wear sleeves that big. However, you asked specifically about 1820 - 1822. This marked the beginning of what is commonly referred to as the "Romantic" period of dress. There is a rather good book of Ackerman's costume prints that has been reprinted by Dover. It is cheap and a great source for ideas of the period 1818 - 1826. Search the Dover website or go to Amazon Dry Goods & try there. It's upstairs and I am just too lazy to go look at the title, but it's so common I am sure you can find it. It may even have been scanned & put online by this time. Sturbridge Village has a wonderful collection of beautiful 1820s gowns if you can get in to see them. I saw them about 7 years ago and took pix. Many of them were just plain cotton calico worn for every day, which is why they were so cool to see. I couldn't get over the painstaking way the women economized on fabric by myriad piecing to take advantage of every inch. There are some similar 1820s gowns at the Ohio Historical Society, too, in fact there is one there made of exactly the same cotton print as one at Sturbridge. That was an exciting find. The Atlanta History Center has an 1820s gown of handwoven fabric. It is extremely unusual, having construction in the bodice almost like a late 1790s round gown. It is hard to get in to see their stuff but worth it if you can do it. There are also several at the museum in Charleston. Hope this helps, Best regards, Susannah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 18:58:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FMw2Qm021852 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:58:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FMv2LV021873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FMuxuC040620; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:56:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FMuulY040469 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:56:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Susannah9810@aol.com) Received: from Susannah9810@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.46.67960442 (4362) for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:56:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Susannah9810@aol.com Message-ID: <46.67960442.2f91a0af@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:56:47 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric organization To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes!! Same here. However, I was so inspired by the article that a month ago I actually did it. I emptied the entire room, rented a storage unit, took everything to it, stored everything in a reasonable order to be able to find it quickly. I purchased two cases of banker boxes, the long type that can hold entire bolts of fabric. It really didn't cost that much and I am so glad I did it, everything is so simple to find now. Then I went back up to the room, vaccuumed severely, re-polished the hardwood floor, and started putting things back in. I put up a sturdier new cutting table, bought new torchere lamps to put in the corners for more light, cleaned all the furniture, cabinets & shelving and scrutinized it for repairs and how it might best be used before putting it back in the room. I decided I wanted the room to be more homey and comfortable and double as a guest room so I purchased an antique sleigh-type day bed to double as a sofa during the day. Piled high with pillows, it gives me a comfy place to sit & handstitch. My kids love the room now and can't stay out of it; one of my youngest daughters was inspired to learn to sew. It's amazing how much more you can get done and are inspired to do when you just clear out the mess. And unbelievably, I have been able to make more items in the past month than I have in the past year. Being so messy & disorganized was really stymiing the creativity flow. So, my recommendation is, just do it. You will love it, and it's REALLY worth it when you're done. And surprisingly, it didn't take nearly as long as I was afraid it would. Take care, Susannah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 19:25:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FNPuxu021980 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:25:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FNOwLV024254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:24:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FNOsgt062260; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:24:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41907.mail.yahoo.com (web41907.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3FHjnnY059333 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:45:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 41095 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2005 17:45:44 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=CT0+XJqTXq5rcjBkQmZuS3yiaWONbBZmZRuLREpYNeZmg1e2aKn+KilK1A0ukc3VV1qmn3NjrxYXowvaERhhkTemny6YYlSHO54b0MZC1c/KJaQy0n0YOUz92hBAjnFNT4b8Che1I5QdL03QR5xGsG8u1a3iBKVTqJAWvEToUGY= ; Message-ID: <20050415174544.41093.qmail@web41907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.104] by web41907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:45:43 PDT Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:45:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Battlestar was: Still lagging memos?????? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks! Going on my quest to check it out! Satine Althea Turner wrote: Here are some websites... http://www.kobol.com/costumes/c02.html well ok, just one, but some good shots of 3 costumes, but not the one you want.. Althea On Thursday, April 14, 2005, at 09:52 PM, Lady Satine wrote: > That was my first thought....I have the series on DVD and a Broked DVD > player... Noone I know in this neck of the woods likes the "old" > series they are all into the new one on SCI FI Channel.. I will keep > looking now back to lurking and looking at teh archives.. > > Satine > > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> I had to ask!!!! I Figured if anyone would have a clue it would be >> here!..... The 7 year old who wants it for Haloween asked me to make >> that >> Battlestar Galatica... (What he said). Pre Star Wars Fighter suit!1 ya >> know the orginal tv thing....... I thought it was cute.. I just had to >> ask!!!!!! > > If you really want to know, get ahold of an episode of it and watch > it. I > never did watch that show, so I can't be of any help here. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 19:27:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FNRbo8021989 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:27:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FNQULV024401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FNQUYg063501; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:26:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FHuCYM069149 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:56:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3FHu6e12296 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:56:06 -0400 From: "Althea Turner" To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:56:06 -0500 Message-Id: <20050415175606.M66258@alfalfapress.com> In-Reply-To: <20050415170940.1ED557266@sitemail.everyone.net> References: <20050415170940.1ED557266@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Mailer: Open WebMail 1.71 20021114 X-OriginatingIP: 128.193.122.135 (alfalfapress@alfalfapress.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Battlestar X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here are some new shots of the old series... (color - Apollo and Starbuck and Serena?) http://www.poster.de/Battlestar-Galactica/Battlestar-Galactica-Photo- Battlestar-Galactica-6202161.html (b/w - Apollo and Starbuck) http://www.poster.de/Battlestar-Galactica/Battlestar-Galactica-Photo- Battlestar-Galactica-6203976.html Lego figures -- hehehe http://lego.fanspace.com/battlestar_galactica_lego/ Good shot of pectoral necklace http://1st-sheet-music.com/movies/Battlestar-Galactica.html BAttlestar Colonial Warrior uniform http://www.ketzer.com/movie_props/bsg_warrior.html Replica Jacket http://www.ketzer.com/prop_replica/BSG_jacket.html Source for insignia and findings..oooohhhh!! http://www.kobol.com/sales/ Some more replica pieces http://www.starfortressproductions.com/galactica.html Hope these help you. Althea Who is gonna get back to studying for her prelims now.... snipped > > > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > >> I had to ask!!!! I Figured if anyone would have a clue it would be > >> here!..... The 7 year old who wants it for Haloween asked me to make > >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 19:31:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FNVqw7022010 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:31:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FNUxLV024818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FNUv5a066799; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:30:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FIm2cS017306 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:48:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id AC22DE0062; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:46:58 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.110 ([209.131.81.110] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 15 Apr 05 18:46:57 -0000 Message-ID: <001d01c541eb$bf3d1ae0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <009501c541c4$ec4b9920$665183d1@rmitchellras> <00b101c541cd$b6bb8190$b1159b04@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Film title? Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:48:40 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is the one, indeed! Thank you, Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Film title? > Kathleen wrote: > I am trying to remember the name of a 'period' film , 18thC?. It begins > with R (Restoration, Revolution...) Any one Know? > > > There was a 17c. movie with Robert Downey Jr, Sam Neill, and Meg Ryan set > just after Cromwell called "Restoration". > There was an 18c. movie with Al Pacino and Donald Sutherland set during the > American Revolution called "Revolution". > -Helen/Aidan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 19:33:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FNXpU0022021 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:33:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FNX1LV024968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FNX1iK068332; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:33:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FMePJe026061 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:40:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005041522401901400h2bo3e>; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:40:19 +0000 Message-ID: <00d201c5420c$1ce493b0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:40:23 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Online Costume Classes & Library X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3FNXpU0022021 Status: RO Hello Everyone, COSTUME CLASSROOM www.costumeclassroom.com We have some new classes starting in April and May. Two classes are taught by our new instructor, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg. She is a PhD candidate, specializing in textile & clothing contents in English wills. Her classes are: ***16th Century English Clothing in Text (She will be covering items that she has discovered in her textile & clothing research in English wills.) This class started Monday but still has room for more students. Last day to start this class is Sunday. ***A Fitting Image: Regency Clothing in Fashion Plates: 1800-1830. Class Start Date: May 16th. I was going to teach two beginning embroidery classes this year. But I can't because I slipped two disks in my neck last month. Another one of our instructors, Dr. Nikki Delaney, is going to teach the classes for me. Nikki is an excellent needleworker of various skills. Nikki's first class, "Beginning Embroidery: Techniques Used from 1910 - 1920: Part 1" is for those who knows nothing or very little about how to embroider. This class starts May 18th. Her "Embroidery: Part 2" class will start July 11th. Nikki will be covering techniques from 1910-1920s but will also provide modern adaptations, and techniques prior to this period. Patterns will be used from our online Library... a 3-month Library subscription is included with this class. Nikki will also teach how to transfer an embroidery pattern from paper to fabric. Another class of interest is starting next Monday, April 18, "Drape a Young Woman's Bodice Pattern: 1850 - 1865." This class is taught by Elizabeth Stewart Clark. She is well known in the American Civil War circles and for her traveling sewing workshops. We are very lucky to have her teaching classes online for the Costume Classroom. If you missed her Jan. 2005 online class, "Basic Corsetry for Young Women, 1850-1865" it is being taught again on August 1st. More online classes starting in April or May: ***Elizabethan Glove Making: Make your own pair of gloves ***Propriety, Plain and Fancy: Victorian and Edwardian Fashions from Bustle to Gibson Girl ***Beginning Flat Pattern Making: A Bustle Period Bodice COSTUME LIBRARY: www.costumelibrary.com or www.costumegallery.com/research.htm LIBRARY UPDATES: www.costumegallery.com/updates.htm Today the Library contains 2,728 webpages and countless images. Our Library is by subscription only. You can view the Table of Contents are no charge. If interested in a subscription, go to: www.costumegallery.com/librarycard.htm Two new books have been added to the Library since the beginning of March. The first is an entire book containing 40 color fashion illustrations of French peasants from the 19th Century. The peasants are presented by location in the country. There are plates of men and women. The second book, was written in 1911, and is called "Women and Labor." This book was written during a time when women's outlook toward employment was really changing. These changes were one of the reasons fashions changed so in the rest of the 20th Century. Currently, the first two chapters are online. A crinoline pattern has been added to our online collection. It was originally printed in Peterson's Magazine, May 1871 issue. We have also added several embroidery patterns from 1871 Peterson's. Also, sewing and embroidery patterns from 1856 & 1857. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 19:49:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3FNnHMX022091 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:49:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3FNm8LV025965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:48:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3FNm0Fb078887; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:48:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3FNlpU9078715 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:47:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2005 23:47:45 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416003227.014cd178@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 00:45:53 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric organization In-Reply-To: <46.67960442.2f91a0af@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 18:56 15/04/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Yes!! Same here. However, I was so inspired by the article that a month >ago I actually did it. I emptied the entire room, rented a storage unit, >took >everything to it, stored everything in a reasonable order to be able to find >it quickly. I purchased two cases of banker boxes, the long type that can >hold entire bolts of fabric. It really didn't cost that much and I am so >glad >I did it, everything is so simple to find now. Then I went back up to the >room, vaccuumed severely, re-polished the hardwood floor, and started >putting >things back in. I put up a sturdier new cutting table, bought new torchere >lamps to put in the corners for more light, cleaned all the furniture, >cabinets > & shelving and scrutinized it for repairs and how it might best be used >before putting it back in the room. I decided I wanted the room to be more >homey and comfortable and double as a guest room so I purchased an antique >sleigh-type day bed to double as a sofa during the day. Piled high >with pillows, >it gives me a comfy place to sit & handstitch. My kids love the room now >and >can't stay out of it; one of my youngest daughters was inspired to learn to >sew. It's amazing how much more you can get done and are inspired to do >when >you just clear out the mess. And unbelievably, I have been able to make >more >items in the past month than I have in the past year. Being so messy & >disorganized was really stymiing the creativity flow. So, my >recommendation is, >just do it. You will love it, and it's REALLY worth it when you're done. >And surprisingly, it didn't take nearly as long as I was afraid it would. I am very impressed by your hard work. Not so impressed that I shall do it for myself, though! I am past retirement age, although still working full time as a costume maker, so cannot afford the time. Also, the thought of lugging everything down two flights of stairs, dragging it to a storage facility by hand - I can't drive - cleaning up and then lugging it all back - no chance!! It would take far too long, and too much energy!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 20:35:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G0ZiXc022252 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:35:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G0YhLV029722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:34:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G0YeqX009333; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:34:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G0YbZv009227 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:34:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so549535nzp for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:34:32 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=I9QTgIDt8jIFaDhaNT1PBRIQS4YHOsLczAB+iP93pZeDjiWNoPg+U1SyfEJNkbsF6VgojP0j0RMzI3GlRR2hSTzI9Epzv9WEfHewvOODUoBAI00Gbzvq1bzm7cZdeELvqElxKr+hMSHZAeyZ2Y0w32gynLHEdRf/3SG7lNtGfrY= Received: by 10.36.61.11 with SMTP id j11mr232378nza; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.3 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:34:32 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3G0YbZv009227 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Florence: Galeria del Costume (Was: Venice...) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO La Galeria del Costume is the name of the costume collection in the Pitti Palace, Florence. I have heard it's the largest collection in Italy. The books "Galeria del Costume" are the biannual (more or less) catalogs highlighting elements of the colllection. I have issues 3-5. They are not costume histories of Ital fashion, they have full page, color pics of mostly 19th c Italian couture garments. Marvelous examples of other European high-end 18th c garments. IIRC under 20 euros each? I dont read Italian, only French & some Spanish, so I just puzzle out bits. The Galeria was closed for restoration & remodeling when I was in Florence 2 yrs ago. It's supposed to be open again, with the newly conserved Medici garments on display. I'm hoping to go in July. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com What is "Galeria del Costume"? I've been looking for a good Italian costume reference..preferably one that isn't in the thousands of dollars..... Beth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 20:51:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G0p3mC022293 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:51:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G0nrLV000750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:49:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G0nfNV018939; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:49:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G0ndBG018868 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:49:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from argenthal@comcast.net) Received: from COMPUTER (pcp09142381pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net[69.142.192.249]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005041600493301200536bse>; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 00:49:33 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c5421e$26fc7ae0$f9c08e45@COMPUTER> From: "Valerie Frank" To: Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:49:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: another film X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3G0p3mC022293 Status: RO The film that features a girl being trained by a man is set in the England of Charles II aand is called Staged Beauty. It recently came out on DVD. Anna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 20:59:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G0x9F6022319 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:59:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G0w7LV001234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G0w2AB023943; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:58:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G0w0LN023917 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:58:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gawne@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin01-en2 [10.13.10.146]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/8.12.11/smtpout10/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id j3G0vvS8018608 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from UROPORTABLE (dhcp073182.fhcrc.org [140.107.73.182]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin01/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id j3G0vqNJ007047 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001901c5421f$52853c50$29b36b8c@UROPORTABLE> From: "Agnes Gawne" To: References: <200504152333.j3FNXCwI068463@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:57:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Another film X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen - although you already have your answer (Restoration) when you asked for a movie set in the 18th century starting with and "R" I immediately thought of Ridicule. It's a fabulous French film set in the late 17 and early 18th centuries... I really liked it although the first scene was rather shocking. Here's the plot summary from Netflix: Nominated for a 1996 Academy Award for Best Foreign Film, Ridicule stars Charles Berling as Marquis de Malavoy, a nobleman in Versailles during the reign of Louis XVI. His village has been invaded by mosquitoes, and he's begging for the king's help. But his plans are diverted when he's locked in a love triangle between a scheming countess and her sweet daughter. To survive Versailles and solve his problem, he must rely on his wit and smarts. Starring: Charles Berling, Jean Rochefort, Fanny Ardent Director: Patrice Leconte rated R For graphic nudity, some sexuality and brief violence You may want to add it to your list for the summer if that is a time period you enjoy. Agnes ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Helen Pinto" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:12 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Film title? > > > > Kathleen wrote: > > I am trying to remember the name of a 'period' film , 18thC?. It begins > > with R (Restoration, Revolution...) Any one Know? > > > > > > There was a 17c. movie with Robert Downey Jr, Sam Neill, and Meg Ryan set > > just after Cromwell called "Restoration". > > There was an 18c. movie with Al Pacino and Donald Sutherland set during > the > > American Revolution called "Revolution". > > -Helen/Aidan > > >> I am collecting entertainment for the summer... > Thanks much for the Restoration title! > Now I am looking for a film that takes place in Shakespeare's time. The plot line includes the girl (or women) being trained by a man who usually plays women's roles. NOT Shakespeare in Love. > I heard this being reviewed on NPR last summer, and of course it will never appear at any theater in my neighborhood!! > Kathleen > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:17:49 -0400 > From: chindora@aol.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film > To: h-costume@indra.com > Message-ID: <8C71006F2864463-F0-3A7B3@mblk-r18.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > That was Stage Beauty, with Claire Danes and Billy Crudup. I enjoyed it, for what that matters. > > ~Kimberley > -----Original Message----- > From: Lloyd Mitchell > To: H-Costume > Sent: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:09:19 -0400 > Subject: [h-cost] another film > > > I am collecting entertainment for the summer... > Thanks much for the Restoration title! > Now I am looking for a film that takes place in Shakespeare's time. The plot > line includes the girl (or women) being trained by a man who usually plays > women's roles. NOT Shakespeare in Love. > I heard this being reviewed on NPR last summer, and of course it will never > appear at any theater in my neighborhood!! > Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 21:32:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G1WU2X022477 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:32:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G1T5LV003169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G1T2QV043731; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:29:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G1SxTb043660 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:28:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3G1Srb06449 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:28:54 -0400 Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:30:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Florence: Galeria del Costume (Was: Venice...) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <2C96139E-AE17-11D9-B23E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I was at the Pitti this summer and yes indeed the Medici garments are on display. Did you know that Italian museum docents get cranky when you sit on the floor in front of the Eleanor dress and stick your nose against the glass in order to get a better look? :D I can recommend the coffee in the cafe. Althea On Friday, April 15, 2005, at 05:34 PM, Cin wrote: > La Galeria del Costume is the name of the costume collection in the _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 21:42:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G1ggvD022508 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:42:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G1fkLV003881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:41:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G1fhSU051908; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:41:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G1ffe6051821 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:41:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.142.439ffb1e (3956) for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:41:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <142.439ffb1e.2f91c749@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:41:29 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:the bonnet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My original thought was late 40's There's something about it that looks wrong about it for 19th C. - can't put my finger on what exactly - just not like ones I've seen. That said of course, am not an expert on bonnets of any type - only look at them when have to make one!!! :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 21:47:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G1l9KW022549 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:47:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G1kILV004113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:46:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G1kHHw055218; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:46:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G1kDi3055133 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:46:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.104.5f3f95f5 (3956) for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:46:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <104.5f3f95f5.2f91c85b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:46:03 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There was a thirties film called 'Stage Door' (although it had another name I can't remember), set in a theatrical boarding house, with Kathryn Hepburn and Ginger Rogers. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 22:09:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G29n8W022666 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:09:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G28YLV005406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:08:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G28OD1069599; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:08:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G28JL1069466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:08:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 15232 invoked by uid 507); 16 Apr 2005 12:08:10 +1000 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 16 Apr 2005 12:08:10 +1000 Message-ID: <16a301c54229$1dc158f0$0302a8c0@mycomputer> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <2C96139E-AE17-11D9-B23E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Florence: Galeria del Costume (Was: Venice...) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:07:58 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Althea wrote: > Did you know that Italian museum docents get cranky when you sit on the > floor in front of the Eleanor dress and stick your nose against the glass > in order to get a better look? :D > The security people followed Wayne around when we were at the Tower of London. He was particularly interested in the designs of the butt end of the pikes, so ended up sprawled on his back on the floor taking close-up photos. He now has conclusive proof of the style of pike end, and the security people had a good story to tell their friends. Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 22:45:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G2jS3V022798 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:45:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G2iYLV007436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:44:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G2iRh0070270; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:44:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G2iP1M070163 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:44:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (220-253-121-171.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.121.171]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 142E34352E for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:44:17 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <001b01c5422e$174edba0$ab79fddc@chris> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005001c541ee$a16b1aa0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> <00fa01c541f9$8407e820$f9159b04@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:43:35 +1000 Organization: Australian Costume Supply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jeeze, next they'll be giving them the vote! -C. Charles II was the monarch who changed the rules and allowed > women to act on stage. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 15 23:49:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G3nqNd023058 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:49:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G3mULV011049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G3mNuU011610; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:48:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50608.mail.yahoo.com (web50608.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.95]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3G3mJKi011515 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:48:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 82373 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2005 03:48:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20050416034814.82371.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50608.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:48:14 EDT Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:48:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504152326.j3FNQb32063598@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bishops Lawn X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's not linen, that much I can tell you. It's cotton. I was working on importing a bolt or two, and just before hanging up with Mr. Hamon (owner of the shop in St. Helier's that carries this particular fabric and very pleasant man to speak with I might add), I had asked, "this is linen, right?" He said no, it wasn't. If you're not ultimately picky on your content, it sounds great. Would make a lovely Edwardian tea dress. Useless trivia: it's Lawm, not lawn, but both words are used interchangably. Kathy > What is IS Bishop's lawn from Jersey? > > h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > From: Suzi Clarke > Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century shirt edging > To: Historical Costume > > > At 14:05 13/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: > >The linen is not as fine as the Bishop's Lawn from > Jersey. > Suzi "The evil that men do lives after them. The good is oft interred in their bones." Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar" ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 01:02:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G52LcR023463 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:02:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G517LV015208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:01:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G511L5061549; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:01:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G50tcx061482 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:00:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20nh.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.241] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DMfQM-00024s-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:00:54 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050415233009.0284afb8@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:32:29 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200504150739.j3F7dm5E088458@net.indra.com> References: <200504150739.j3F7dm5E088458@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Printing on Fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try "Bubble Jet Rinse" available from www.clotilde.com They also have "Bubble Jet Set" which will allow you to print on any fabric of your own choice (100% silk, cotton, or acetate). HTH, Sandy At 02:39 AM 4/15/2005, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:22:04 -0700 >From: Rose Amberwulf >Subject: [h-cost] Fabric printing > >The other part of my project is that I will be using my inkjet printer >to print on specially treated fabric. I know I can use dyes and paints >to colorize my printed fabrics, but I understand I can use watercolor >pencils also. Is there a way to treat the fabric afterwards so the >colors would not rinse out if the item got wet? > >Roscelin "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 02:06:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G66EbU024512 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:06:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G62hLV021580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 00:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G62YHI006584; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 00:02:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from perdition3.onetel.net.uk (perdition3.onetel.net.uk [212.67.120.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3G62WDF006385 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 00:02:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk) Received: (qmail 3208 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2005 06:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Mudfeet) (213.78.100.121) by perd3 with SMTP; 16 Apr 2005 06:02:29 -0000 Message-ID: <02b401c54249$ce9feb80$ce634ed5@Mudfeet> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] vikings + bliaut thinking... Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:56:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Still, I have to wonder how "familiar" the north seemed to a population that had emigrated more than 200 years before. There are a few interesting studies on the mixed culture of the Vikings, I've passed refs that are quite fascination. How whilst remaining proud of their "other" heritage they also worked hard at blending in . It is quite odd, Lombardi refs (further S) might be worth looking at. 200 years, well think of the Anglo Normans, still holding on to their French in the 13th C and the jokes the French native speakers made of their poor accents. It started to be very much a second language by then, but that is a long while to hold out. > E.g. do Norse literary traditions or storylines have any presence in French courtly romance? I'm currently studying some early fairy tales Italian, 15th C. Storylines carry through an a lot. Cinderella has a story in many cultures. It might be hard to tell. I bet you could find some evidence if you dig deep enough, whether it will be enough is another matter. I keep thinking of a viking picture or carving I think I remember which might show similar clothing, but can't for the life of me remember which one or where. It might come back :) Good luck with your quest anyhow Mari ;) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the contents of this e-mail or any of its attachments without express consent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 04:26:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G8QOGB019712 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:26:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G8PDLV002413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G8P1v3009249; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:25:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G8OuTB009156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:25:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j3G8ILmT026708 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:18:22 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4260CBD5.6040904@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:24:53 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pepys 1662: Sarcenett pettycoats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you think he really means "printed" as in, with ink, not real lace? Tuesday 15 April 1662 http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1662/04/15/index.php At the office all the morning. Dined at home. Again at the office in the afternoon to despatch letters and so home, and with my wife, by coach, to the New Exchange, to buy her some things; where we saw some new-fashion pettycoats of sarcenett, with a black broad lace printed round the bottom and before, very handsome, and my wife had a mind to one of them, but we did not then buy one. But thence to Mr. Bowyer’s, thinking to have spoke to them for our Sarah to go to Huntsmore for a while to get away her ague, but we had not opportunity to do it, and so home and to bed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 04:37:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G8bk8d020744 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:37:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G8aoLV003041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:36:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G8alNi017517; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:36:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3G8ai25017435 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:36:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 87440 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2005 08:36:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:36:38 BST Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:36:38 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? Contact and use info please X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello ahh - so it is fine cotton /lawn/, not linen - this coudl be very very handy, although I'd love a source of very fine linen too. Has anyone used this bishop's lawn? Is it suitable for machine heirloom embroidery? I have some victorian underwear and a couple of Edwardian tea-dresses that need lawn but I'm wary on cost. That was the other question, how much per metre/yard? Oh, and I can't find 'Hamon' on the internet, so a telephone number would be very helpful. Thank you very much for any info, Susan Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 04:46:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G8kje2022477 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:46:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G8jgLV003225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G8jdhQ022986; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:45:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3G8jYLf022871 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:45:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2005 08:45:28 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:43:28 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? Contact and use info please In-Reply-To: <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3G8jYLf022871 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:36 16/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: >Hello >ahh - so it is fine cotton /lawn/, not linen - this >coudl be very very handy, although I'd love a source >of very fine linen too. > >Has anyone used this bishop's lawn? Is it suitable for >machine heirloom embroidery? I have some victorian >underwear and a couple of Edwardian tea-dresses that >need lawn but I'm wary on cost. That was the other >question, how much per metre/yard? Oh, and I can't >find 'Hamon' on the internet, so a telephone number >would be very helpful. Hamon's do not have an internet site, as far as I know. The cotton lawn is very fine, like very fine quilting cotton I would say, but its real beauty is the price. It is £2.25 per yard, 54" wide. This, for GB, is cheap. They were very kind and sent me a sample. Julian, who recommended it, said it is a very old-fashioned store, but the people there are very helpful Hamons Ltd. 37-39 King Street St. Helier Jersey Channel Islands 01534 720 331 (I do not know what the international prefix is - sorry.) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 05:51:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G9pFSK007686 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 05:51:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G9o2LV011372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G9nrxK070765; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:49:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.181]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3G9noV3070673 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:49:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 38006 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2005 09:49:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20050416094944.38004.qmail@web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.138.180] by web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:49:44 BST Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:49:44 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? Contact and use info please X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On this thread, to The List No, Hamon's of St. Helier, Island of Jersey, - do not have an Internet Site - [in fact from the general age-level of the proprietors and staff whom I've spoken to since getting involved with the local medieval-interest Group, I'd guess that none of them are even likely to own computers [though their grandchildren probably would]. In a little Island most of whose "traditional" shops are being rapidly taken-over by "foreign retail Chains" so that "family shops" are almost a vanishing Class, Hamons' are still a Family-owned business, - and the Hamon Family are recorded on the early Rolls of Jersey Armigers back as far as 1331 - " on a field Azure, a Lion rampart, guardant, reguardant, Or". Ever since I decided to make some Heraldic banners for our group's "Armigers" - (following the advice of "Gerald Ye Herald" on using "Bishop's lawn" if I could get it) - I have been buying fabrics from Hamon's for making Banners, and medieval shirts. The shop is like a "time-warp" back to another age! It's housed in a late-Georgian "Listed" building, and the shop-front is probably od late-Victorian date and manufacture. Inside, there is hardly room to move between the shelves stacked ceiling-high with bolts of cloth, and the lovingly-polished Victorian hard-wood counters. (No tacky modern plastic shop-fittings here!) "Hamons' " is unquestionably the best of the few fabric stockists in the Island, and probably, - one of the best of such shops remaining in the whole of the UK; - having very-knowledgable and helpful staff, proprietors who'll help you find any cloth for any project - (even if they don't have it in stock, they'll source a bolt of it for you, and at what my wife tells me are "very reasonable prices"). Most of the counter-staff are either close to retirement age or even beyond it (in one case I'd reckon well-beyond it), having worked at Hamons' for decades; - and - according to my dear wife, - what Hamon's staff don't know about fabrics is either probably verging on the abtruse; or not worth knowing. To make a visit to Hamon's even more intersting, many of the counterstaff speak English with the inimitable "Jersey" accent, vocabulary, and phrasing (common to hear in the island 40 years ago, but seldom-unheard now, save in the farming community of our rural Parishes), - and if one is lucky during a visit, one can hear the counterstaff speaking either "Jerriais" ( the Jersey Patois) or Breton to customers, as well. An experience to enjoy - since it is almost vanished elswhere under the various pressures of "modernity". This week, I've just bought 6 yds of that "Bishops' Lawn" I told you all about, - intending to create a painted "Commander's Standard" for my principal "Persona" to display this coming Season, - and they charged my wife £13.50GB for it. Personally, I know nothing about fabric (beyond the various grades of sailcoth pre- about 1970 - when I was younger I used to make my own racing-dinghy sails) - but I can tell you all that - to me, - the cloth I'm buying seems as fine as that of my finest linen handkerchiefs - the ones I use for the top pockets of my best formal suits for "office wear". I hope you'll all find these comments both interesting and helpful. Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 05:59:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3G9xdGq008674 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 05:59:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3G9wiLV013050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:58:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3G9wfQd076619; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:58:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3G9wcBl076532 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 898 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2005 09:58:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20050416095833.896.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.138.180] by web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:58:33 BST Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:58:33 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? Hamons' - text correction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooops, sorry, everybody, "there's a Nut loose on my keyboard".... "seldom-unheard" should have read "seldom-heard", of course. Note to self, - "proof-read messages more carefully, don't just rely on your spellchecker!" Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 06:50:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GAoFiR024715 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:50:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GAn3LV022402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:49:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GAn0SX013245; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:49:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GAmvn5013182 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:48:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pdx-ppp281.pop1.net [209.102.127.118]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA24013 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:51:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp281.pop1.net [209.102.127.118] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Message-ID: <4260ED74.2040000@pcez.com> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:48:20 -0700 From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Printing on Fabric References: <200504150739.j3F7dm5E088458@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20050415233009.0284afb8@pop.radiks.net> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050415233009.0284afb8@pop.radiks.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm going to be using some fabric that has been treated with Bubble Jet. It's a great product. What I am curious about is if I can use watercolor pencils to do any of my colorizing; is how to use those type of pencils and be able to protect the colors afterwards from water. Roscelin Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > Try "Bubble Jet Rinse" available from www.clotilde.com > They also have "Bubble Jet Set" which will allow you to print on any > fabric of your own choice (100% silk, cotton, or acetate). > > HTH, > > Sandy > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 08:50:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GCoVFR026216 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:50:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GCnCLV029379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:49:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GCn137093400; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:49:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GCmxFj093304 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:48:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A9B233000A0; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:48:50 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.120 ([209.131.81.120] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 16 Apr 05 12:48:49 -0000 Message-ID: <001701c54282$e1b45240$785183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005001c541ee$a16b1aa0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> <00fa01c541f9$8407e820$f9159b04@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:50:32 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you. I thought I recalled the NPR interview using the Shakespearean period as the setting for this film. However, I found Stage Beauty on amazon and it is on its way here for my summer viewing, along with some other goodies of a costume and history nature. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film > Kathleen wrote: > Now I am looking for a film that takes place in Shakespeare's time. The > plot line includes the girl (or women) being trained by a man who usually > plays women's roles. NOT Shakespeare in Love. > I heard this being reviewed on NPR last summer, and of course it will never > appear at any theater in my neighborhood!! > > > You're probably thinking of "Stage Beauty" with Billy Crudup, Claire Danes, > and Rupert Everett, which came out last year. It's set in the same time > period as "Restoration", not Shakespeare, although some of his plays are > referenced. Charles II was the monarch who changed the rules and allowed > women to act on stage. > -Helen/Aidan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 09:00:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GD0qtT026263 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:00:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GCxmLV029697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:59:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GCxfc0000766; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:59:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GCxdv7000656 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:59:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AC342EF004A; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:59:32 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.120 ([209.131.81.120] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 16 Apr 05 12:59:31 -0000 Message-ID: <003c01c54284$6026d0c0$785183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200504152333.j3FNXCwI068463@net.indra.com> <001901c5421f$52853c50$29b36b8c@UROPORTABLE> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another film Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:01:14 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah! This is indeed another one that has appeared on this list ! Hope I can find it!! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Agnes Gawne" To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 8:57 PM Subject: [h-cost] Another film > Kathleen - although you already have your answer (Restoration) when you > asked for a movie set in the 18th century starting with and "R" I > immediately thought of Ridicule. It's a fabulous French film set in the > late 17 and early 18th centuries... I really liked it although the first > scene was rather shocking. > > Here's the plot summary from Netflix: > > Nominated for a 1996 Academy Award for Best Foreign Film, Ridicule stars > Charles Berling as Marquis de Malavoy, a nobleman in Versailles during the > reign of Louis XVI. His village has been invaded by mosquitoes, and he's > begging for the king's help. But his plans are diverted when he's locked in > a love triangle between a scheming countess and her sweet daughter. To > survive Versailles and solve his problem, he must rely on his wit and > smarts. > > Starring: Charles Berling, Jean Rochefort, Fanny Ardent > Director: Patrice Leconte > rated R For graphic nudity, some sexuality and brief violence > > > You may want to add it to your list for the summer if that is a time period > you enjoy. > > Agnes > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Helen Pinto" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:12 AM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Film title? > > > > > > > Kathleen wrote: > > > I am trying to remember the name of a 'period' film , 18thC?. It begins > > > with R (Restoration, Revolution...) Any one Know? > > > > > > > > > There was a 17c. movie with Robert Downey Jr, Sam Neill, and Meg Ryan > set > > > just after Cromwell called "Restoration". > > > There was an 18c. movie with Al Pacino and Donald Sutherland set during > > the > > > American Revolution called "Revolution". > > > -Helen/Aidan > > > > >> I am collecting entertainment for the summer... > > Thanks much for the Restoration title! > > Now I am looking for a film that takes place in Shakespeare's time. The > plot line includes the girl (or women) being trained by a man who usually > plays women's roles. NOT Shakespeare in Love. > > I heard this being reviewed on NPR last summer, and of course it will > never appear at any theater in my neighborhood!! > > Kathleen > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:17:49 -0400 > > From: chindora@aol.com > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Message-ID: <8C71006F2864463-F0-3A7B3@mblk-r18.sysops.aol.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > That was Stage Beauty, with Claire Danes and Billy Crudup. I enjoyed it, > for what that matters. > > > > ~Kimberley > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lloyd Mitchell > > To: H-Costume > > Sent: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:09:19 -0400 > > Subject: [h-cost] another film > > > > > > I am collecting entertainment for the summer... > > Thanks much for the Restoration title! > > Now I am looking for a film that takes place in Shakespeare's time. The > plot > > line includes the girl (or women) being trained by a man who usually plays > > women's roles. NOT Shakespeare in Love. > > I heard this being reviewed on NPR last summer, and of course it will > never > > appear at any theater in my neighborhood!! > > Kathleen > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 09:06:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GD6x8R026295 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:06:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GD64LV029958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:06:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GD5uuQ005100; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:05:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GD5sJL005014 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:05:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id ADAC309004A; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:05:48 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.120 ([209.131.81.120] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 16 Apr 05 13:05:46 -0000 Message-ID: <004901c54285$40148f60$785183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <104.5f3f95f5.2f91c85b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:07:30 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, indeed. I know this one and that was why I said Not Stage Door. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film > There was a thirties film called 'Stage Door' (although it had another name I > can't remember), set in a theatrical boarding house, with Kathryn Hepburn and > Ginger Rogers. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 09:36:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GDac5F026506 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:36:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GDZkLV001375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:35:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GDZgrn026109; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:35:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao06.cox.net (lakermmtao06.cox.net [68.230.240.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GDZetG026000 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:35:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.186.193.176]) by lakermmtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP id <20050416133529.ILTU21504.lakermmtao06.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:35:29 -0400 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] fabric organization Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:35:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcVCLt6S1hFQdQSXQFag+wA3PcKYAAAWdSEA In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416003227.014cd178@127.0.0.1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Message-Id: <20050416133529.ILTU21504.lakermmtao06.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am very impressed by your hard work. Not so impressed that I shall do it for myself, though! I am past retirement age, although still working full time as a costume maker, so cannot afford the time. Also, the thought of lugging everything down two flights of stairs, dragging it to a storage facility by hand - I can't drive - cleaning up and then lugging it all back - no chance!! It would take far too long, and too much energy!! Suzi I am afraid I would have to agree with Suzi. Once we reach a certain age, organization does take a back seat to conserving energy for the REALLY important things in life- friends, sewing, chocolate. I try to be a bit organized but I would rather be remembered as a fun friend than a neat housekeeper. :) Anne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 10:58:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GEw8bW027009 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:58:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GEuHLV006934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:56:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GEuAJ5086155; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:56:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GEu8nt086072 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:56:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.66.553506c7 (4214) for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:55:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <66.553506c7.2f92817d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:55:57 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another film To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just checked out Stage Beauty from Blockbuster last week, so I am sure it is readily available. On another note, I am having costuming withdrawals because I am so wrapped up in home renovation that I don't have time to get any fabrics out, and if I did, they would be covered in plaster dust in short order. ~K _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 11:28:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GFSTh1027225 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:28:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GFRHLV010810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GFRDX2010658; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:27:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3GFRBPf010613 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:27:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 5159 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2005 15:43:54 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:43:54 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1144.24.4.69.40.1113665230.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> References: <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? Contact and use info please From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hamon's do not have an internet site, as far as I know. The cotton lawn is > very fine, like very fine quilting cotton I would say, but its real beauty > is the price. It is £2.25 per yard, 54" wide. Dear list, I apologize if I am speaking out of ignorance because I have not been following this discussion very well but.... I carry cotton lawn on my website. I am not sure what the difference is for "Bishop's Lawn" but the cotton lawn I have is a very fine, thin, soft cotton. It is $5.60 per yard and comes in white and cream. I am willing to ship anywhere. Here is a link: http://www.renaissancefabrics.net/prod_detail.php?int_product_id=172 I have been told that cotton lawn is hard to find and expensive when you can find it. I am glad that I can offer it to the list at (what I consider) a reasonable price :~> Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 11:36:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GFacRo027275 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:36:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GFZlLV014080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:35:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GFZfTQ019064; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:35:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3GFZaEN018948 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:35:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2005 15:35:30 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:35:27 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? Contact and use info please In-Reply-To: <1144.24.4.69.40.1113665230.squirrel@www.inreach.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3GFZaEN018948 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:27 16/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: > > Hamon's do not have an internet site, as far as I know. The cotton lawn is > > very fine, like very fine quilting cotton I would say, but its real beauty > > is the price. It is £2.25 per yard, 54" wide. > >Dear list, > >I apologize if I am speaking out of ignorance because I have not been >following this discussion very well but.... > >I carry cotton lawn on my website. I am not sure what the difference is >for "Bishop's Lawn" but the cotton lawn I have is a very fine, thin, soft >cotton. It is $5.60 per yard and comes in white and cream. I am willing >to ship anywhere. Here is a link: > >http://www.renaissancefabrics.net/prod_detail.php?int_product_id=172 > >I have been told that cotton lawn is hard to find and expensive when you >can find it. I am glad that I can offer it to the list at (what I >consider) a reasonable price :~> I am sure that your cotton lawn is good value, Diana, but not when you have to add customs duty to it when shipping from the U.S. I do not have any difficulty in obtaining cotton lawn in England, and in fact it is available in several different places. However, the lawn listed at Hamon's is the cheapest I have found in the U.K. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 11:42:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GFghIa027310 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:42:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GFfqLV014360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:41:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GFfn7I023720; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:41:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3GFfimQ023645 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:41:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 5556 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2005 15:58:26 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:58:26 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1163.24.4.69.40.1113666102.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? Contact and use info please From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I am sure that your cotton lawn is good value, Diana, but not when you > have > to add customs duty to it when shipping from the U.S. > > I do not have any difficulty in obtaining cotton lawn in England, and in > fact it is available in several different places. However, the lawn listed > at Hamon's is the cheapest I have found in the U.K. Fair enough. I didn't realize that they charge customs duty because the U.S. doesn't. That's a real bummer! I am glad that you have several sources for a good price. It seems like other fabrics tend to be expensive there. However a friend of mine found handkercheif linen in England for $5 US per metre! Here, if you can find it *at all* you usually pay $15 or more per yard. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 11:51:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GFpEvB027384 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:51:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GFoNLV014906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:50:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GFoKD8029717; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:50:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3GFoF5C029572 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:50:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2005 15:50:09 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:50:06 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? Contact and use info please In-Reply-To: <1163.24.4.69.40.1113666102.squirrel@www.inreach.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:41 16/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: > > > > I am sure that your cotton lawn is good value, Diana, but not when you > > have > > to add customs duty to it when shipping from the U.S. > > > > I do not have any difficulty in obtaining cotton lawn in England, and in > > fact it is available in several different places. However, the lawn listed > > at Hamon's is the cheapest I have found in the U.K. > >Fair enough. I didn't realize that they charge customs duty because the >U.S. doesn't. That's a real bummer! > >I am glad that you have several sources for a good price. It seems like >other fabrics tend to be expensive there. However a friend of mine found >handkercheif linen in England for $5 US per metre! Here, if you can find >it *at all* you usually pay $15 or more per yard. Now that is a different problem. Could you be really, really kind, and see if your friend can remember where she got her handkerchief linen from? It sometimes turns up at Re-enactor markets, if you're lucky, the wind's in the right direction, there's an R in the month and a full moon that night. As you see, not easy to find. Heavy linen, shirt weight linen, but not handkerchief linen!! (Oh and someone always knows a place where they have it, but when you ring, they just sold the last of it, and don't know when the next lot will be coming in. They will call you when it arrives - in a pig's eye!!) Oh, and yes, other fabrics are expensive here, (silk especially), but the quality is usually excellent. And if course, if we didn't have you helpful ladies in the U.S. to chat to, we'd never know how much we are being ripped off! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 12:15:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GGF3vr027539 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:15:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GGE0LV016234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GGDnmT046198; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:13:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40428.mail.yahoo.com (web40428.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.92.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3GGDkSZ046116 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:13:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 81071 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2005 16:13:40 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=P2o5WJzhyEuOdbflJC+wk6izbGWP/PF19nM2k4wfq2yGxlVZcewhLmGtW7YFQI2fevOg42FPYRJpCkKGm9h453UDBTxZLScTJhi6Syf9tZagedFmGUBAZPzWqS0QhJ8CuThZaPAyt4TEX3VS6EYYsaTDheSFqQQ8If5BJaKRO8w= ; Message-ID: <20050416161340.81069.qmail@web40428.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.176.127] by web40428.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:13:40 PDT Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:13:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504161550.j3GFoLm9029726@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cranach the Elder Exhibit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I'm way behind on my mail, so hopefully this isn't a repeat, but I just noticed that Cornell U. has an exhibition of 2 Cranach the Elder paintings. The exhibit runs until August 14, so if you happen to be in the Ithica, NY vicinity you may want to check it out. http://www.museum.cornell.edu/HFJ/currex/exhibits2.html ~Mary http://www.quite-contrary.org/ (I'll be in NYC the first week of August -- how far away is Ithica??) "Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick & wicked." ~ Jane Austen "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 12:27:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GGR5i0027590 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:27:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GGQGLV016916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GGQDCH054690; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:26:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp818.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp818.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3GGQC9W054668 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:26:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from unknown (HELO Genie.sbcglobal.net) (maggie.gene@sbcglobal.net@68.93.123.42 with login) by smtp818.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2005 16:26:11 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050416111944.01e44df0@mail.justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:22:56 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett In-Reply-To: <1163.24.4.69.40.1113666102.squirrel@www.inreach.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <1163.24.4.69.40.1113666102.squirrel@www.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Linen in the US for under $10 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Fair enough. I didn't realize that they charge customs duty because the >U.S. doesn't. That's a real bummer! > >I am glad that you have several sources for a good price. It seems like >other fabrics tend to be expensive there. However a friend of mine found >handkercheif linen in England for $5 US per metre! Here, if you can find >it *at all* you usually pay $15 or more per yard. > >Diana Denver fabrics has handkerchief linen for just under $8. I have bought their linen, and love it. I made a camica out of it and could live in the thing. It's so light and airy, that even here in Texas it's cool. http://www.denverfabrics.com/pages/static/linen/white-linen.htm I've bought the heavier stuff, too. After the first three washes, it's just as soft as you'd ever want it. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 12:33:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GGXN9l027618 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:33:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GGWOLV017238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:32:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GGWGNM059175; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:32:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GGWCb4059060 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:32:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56DBC3C273 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:32:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42613E24.2070103@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:32:36 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] handkerchief linen ( Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? ) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: >> >> I am glad that you have several sources for a good price. It seems like >> other fabrics tend to be expensive there. However a friend of mine found >> handkercheif linen in England for $5 US per metre! Here, if you can find >> it *at all* you usually pay $15 or more per yard. > Fabric.com has handkerchief linen at the moment for $7.95 per yard, and they're running a 12% off coupon through Wednesday. The colors are all pretty dark though. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 12:44:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GGiHXP027688 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:44:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GGhPLV017806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:43:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GGhMn3066677; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:43:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3GGhFT9066541 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:43:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2005 16:43:09 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416173753.014cd9d8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:41:36 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen in the US for under $10 In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050416111944.01e44df0@mail.justinanimator.com> References: <1163.24.4.69.40.1113666102.squirrel@www.inreach.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <1163.24.4.69.40.1113666102.squirrel@www.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:22 16/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: >>Fair enough. I didn't realize that they charge customs duty because the >>U.S. doesn't. That's a real bummer! >> >>I am glad that you have several sources for a good price. It seems like >>other fabrics tend to be expensive there. However a friend of mine found >>handkercheif linen in England for $5 US per metre! Here, if you can find >>it *at all* you usually pay $15 or more per yard. >> >>Diana >Denver fabrics has handkerchief linen for just under $8. I have bought >their linen, and love it. I made a camica out of it and could live in the >thing. It's so light and airy, that even here in Texas it's cool. > >http://www.denverfabrics.com/pages/static/linen/white-linen.htm > >I've bought the heavier stuff, too. After the first three washes, it's >just as soft as you'd ever want it. Genie I'm sorry but that is no help - British Customs charge me money for importing goods from America! And the postage is prohibitive! And I can't get a trading company to send it as a gift, which is the only way round this!! I suppose I could ask someone to get it for me, exchange some money for dollars to pay for it (another rip off) and then have it sent as a gift. I'm sorry but I am too lazy and mean - I'll manage with what I can get! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 12:44:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GGiI9L027691 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:44:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GGhOLV017805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:43:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GGhLIA066667; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:43:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3GGhFYY066542 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:43:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2005 16:43:09 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416174224.015d3750@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:43:05 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] handkerchief linen ( Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? ) In-Reply-To: <42613E24.2070103@reddawn.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:32 16/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: >Suzi Clarke wrote: >>> >>>I am glad that you have several sources for a good price. It seems like >>>other fabrics tend to be expensive there. However a friend of mine found >>>handkercheif linen in England for $5 US per metre! Here, if you can find >>>it *at all* you usually pay $15 or more per yard. > > >Fabric.com has handkerchief linen at the moment for $7.95 per yard, and >they're running a 12% off coupon through Wednesday. The colors are all >pretty dark though. Dawn See my previous note. Living in England, this is far too much hassle. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 15:41:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GJfW3H028930 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:41:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GJdNLV027944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:39:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GJd4Bf089157; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:39:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GJcxZD089046 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:39:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21567 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:54:19 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:54:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen in the US for under $10 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416173753.014cd9d8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, Suzi Clarke wrote: > I'm sorry but that is no help - British Customs charge me money for > importing goods from America! And the postage is prohibitive! And I > can't get a trading company to send it as a gift, which is the only > way round this!! > > I suppose I could ask someone to get it for me, exchange some money > for dollars to pay for it (another rip off) and then have it sent as a > gift. I'm sorry but I am too lazy and mean - I'll manage with what I > can get! Something to keep in mind: I maintain "trading relationships" with several friends in various countries whom I've met online. We each purchase (on request) particular items that are available in our home countries and send them overseas as gifts, and the other returns the favor with something else at some point later. I find it very useful to have overseas friends who can pay for certain overseas journals, memberships, etc. in British pounds in exchange for my sending them an equivalent amount of books, fabric, or other goods that they can't get here. My best partner is actually in Norway, but she has a British bank account and can pay for things in pounds for me ... and she also collects certain out-of-print English-language books that can't be found in Norway. She orders from small booksellers through abe, bookfinder, and alibris and has everything shipped to me, and when the pile gets big enough I send it all to her in a single box from her. Money exchange is mostly a nonissue now that you can order with credit cards. With the number of people on this list, wherever you happen to be, there's probably something you have access to that someone else would be happy to return a favor for. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 16:21:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GKLmm2029185 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:21:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GKJ5LV003653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GKJ1nT019580; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:19:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GKIw4k019483 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:18:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5353BC6E for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:18:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4261734D.20701@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:19:25 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] handkerchief linen ( Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? ) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416174224.015d3750@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416174224.015d3750@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> Fabric.com has handkerchief linen at the moment for $7.95 per yard, >> and they're running a 12% off coupon through Wednesday. The colors are >> all pretty dark though. > > > See my previous note. Living in England, this is far too much hassle. > > Suzi Certainly, shipping overseas is almost never a bargain. But for Diana and the others in the US who were looking for something under the "$15 or more per yard" price it is a very good deal. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 16:27:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GKRSMh029218 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:27:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GKOLLV003893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:24:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GKOI4A022987; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:24:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3GKODA6022880 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:24:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2005 20:24:07 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416210934.015d6800@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:22:53 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen in the US for under $10 In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416173753.014cd9d8@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 14:54 16/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: >On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, Suzi Clarke wrote: > > > I'm sorry but that is no help - British Customs charge me money for > > importing goods from America! And the postage is prohibitive! And I > > can't get a trading company to send it as a gift, which is the only > > way round this!! > > > > I suppose I could ask someone to get it for me, exchange some money > > for dollars to pay for it (another rip off) and then have it sent as a > > gift. I'm sorry but I am too lazy and mean - I'll manage with what I > > can get! > >Something to keep in mind: > >I maintain "trading relationships" with several friends in various >countries whom I've met online. We each purchase (on request) particular >items that are available in our home countries and send them overseas as >gifts, and the other returns the favor with something else at some point >later. I already do this, but unfortunately, not all my friends are fabric aficionados, and I really don't like buying sight unseen and fabric unhandled. (Recently acquired Costume Close-up and Fitting and Proper this way, and am expecting a video of film I made costumes for, for Hearst Castle no less - la-di dah!) However, I have already had a couple of kind offers, through this list, which I have thanked them for, and will see how things go. One small problem, which other makers will appreciate, my customers often want guidance on fabric types, colours and so on, and for me, it is so easy to go to the fabric shops I know, and am known, and make a selection to submit to a customer. This would, I think, be more difficult if I had to choose fabric on line, in terms of how long it would take to get samples. Sometimes I don't know what I want until I see it on a bolt, which makes life even more difficult! I should say that I am very lucky living near the centre of London, with all the specialist shops in one area (well, nearly all!) Also I get mail order from certain companies, which virtually halves the cost - the mark-up in the shops is huge! It is only rare items, such as handkerchief linen, that I have difficulty in sourcing, and there are substitutes that are more than adequate - I do not have customers who want perfect authenticity thank goodness. Thanks again to everyone for their helpful suggestions. I shall certainly bear them in mind for the future. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 16:28:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3GKSRbG029231 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:28:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3GKQRLV003983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:26:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GKQRxr024450; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:26:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3GKQKCr024304 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:26:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2005 20:26:15 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416212432.015d1cd8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:26:12 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] handkerchief linen ( Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? ) In-Reply-To: <4261734D.20701@reddawn.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416174224.015d3750@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416174224.015d3750@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 15:19 16/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: >>>Fabric.com has handkerchief linen at the moment for $7.95 per yard, and >>>they're running a 12% off coupon through Wednesday. The colors are all >>>pretty dark though. >> >>See my previous note. Living in England, this is far too much hassle. >>Suzi > > >Certainly, shipping overseas is almost never a bargain. But for Diana and >the others in the US who were looking for something under the "$15 or more >per yard" price it is a very good deal. There are times when I wish I worked in the U.S. and had access to all the costuming facilities that you have. Then I look at the Tower of London and St. Paul's Cathedral as I cross the bridge to go shopping, and remember why I'm glad I don't. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 21:21:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3H1LIwj030913 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:21:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3H1J2LV022615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H1IosI020660; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:18:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H1Ig7a020543 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:18:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.fe.11ac3b48 (4238) for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:18:27 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:18:27 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Elizabeth Barber Lecture X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Some of the list members expressed an interest in hearing Dr. Elizabeth Wayland Barber's keynote address at the Costume Society of America Symposium. You can just come for the lecture without registering for the symposium. Cost is $20, $10 for students. Her title is "How We Came to Dress the Way We Do: Tales from a Scholar's Thirty-Year Pursuit of Origins." This dynamic talk will discuss some of Dr. Barber's favorite costume chases and the various methods she uses when working in eras where data is scarce. Friday, May 26, 6:30-7:30 p.m., Van Pelt Auditorium of the Philadelphia Museum of Art, Philadelphia, PA (USA) Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 21:46:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3H1kgWO031064 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:46:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3H1iFLV026003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:44:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H1iAtD038079; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:44:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H1i6cU037948 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:44:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3H1hwC31184 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:43:58 -0400 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 18:45:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Althea Turner To: Costume Historical Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <72C64B20-AEE2-11D9-B23E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, I am looking to put together a list of movies for my students from the 60-80s that shows contemporary fashions. Does anyone have any suggestions for movies that clearly show contemporary dress? I'm also looking for movies that idealized contemporary fashion/ interiors. Thanks!! Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangaea! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 21:54:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3H1stAn031122 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:54:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3H1sELV026703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H1sBm0044749; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:54:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H1s8bN044656 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:54:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (220-253-121-134.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.121.134]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id F33FA6CE63 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:54:01 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <001201c542f0$3d1e3020$8679fddc@chris> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <72C64B20-AEE2-11D9-B23E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:53:22 +1000 Organization: Australian Costume Supply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Happy Days (TV series) and Grease are interesting in showing the way contemporary (1970s) fashion infected the so-called 1950s look. The hair in Happy Days could be especially odd and Olivia Newton John in Spandex? Ewww... There are other examples of this kind of thing in costume, make-up, hair, scenery and props throughout both, -C. > I am looking to put together a list of movies for my students from the > 60-80s that shows contemporary fashions. Does anyone have any > suggestions for movies that clearly show contemporary dress? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 22:01:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3H21CGP031159 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:01:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3H20OLV027255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:00:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H20LRY048962; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:00:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H20FLD048863 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:00:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24896 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:15:42 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:15:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies In-Reply-To: <72C64B20-AEE2-11D9-B23E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, Althea Turner wrote: > I am looking to put together a list of movies for my students from the > 60-80s that shows contemporary fashions. Does anyone have any > suggestions for movies that clearly show contemporary dress? I'm also > looking for movies that idealized contemporary fashion/ interiors. The Ice Storm was made in 1997, but it nails 1973 visuals. Any of the Sean Connery or Roger Moore James Bond movies would show idealized fashion. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 22:16:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3H2GoE1031237 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:16:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3H2FFLV028690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:15:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H2F9CW059375; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:15:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H2F7NH059301 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:15:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.149.436bea0d (4196) for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:14:55 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <149.436bea0d.2f93209e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:14:54 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] another film To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/15/2005 9:46:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Debloughcostumes@aol.com writes: There was a thirties film called 'Stage Door' (although it had another name I can't remember), set in a theatrical boarding house, with Kathryn Hepburn and Ginger Rogers. And Lucille Ball, and Olivia DeHavilland....and every other starlet from the 30s. All playing poor struggling NY actresses....in designer clothes. Great stuff! "The calla lilies are in bloom......" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 22:31:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3H2V1E8031326 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:31:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3H2U3LV000283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H2TtJ5069726; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:29:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H2TrGU069638 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:29:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.103.5f85b3c2 (4196) for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:29:39 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <103.5f85b3c2.2f932412@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:29:38 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "What a Way to Go" has Shirley MacLaine in every early 60s silhouette...all exaggerated. Any of those jet set crime capers with Audrey Hepburn {"Charade"}or Sophia Loren {"Arabesque"} do it too for the 60s. For realism check out the indies or movies like "Easy Rider" or "Z". In the 70s things tend to get more realistic as independent films become more common. Even dance oriented films become real...like "Fame". TV is a good place to look here. Y'know "Bradey Bunch"! 80's go off the deep end again especially with the "we're having fun in college" or even High School films. And Rap films. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 16 22:42:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3H2gk5q031406 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:42:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3H2efLV001182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H2ecOS077487; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:40:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H2eboI077408 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:40:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.198.3d1684be (4196) for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:40:28 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <198.3d1684be.2f93269c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:40:28 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just thought of an exaggerated 70s film: "Can't Stop the Music"...with the Village People....if you can stand to watch the thing. And the awful film Milos Forman made of "Hair" is an interesting 70s view of the 60s. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 17 01:30:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3H5Uh0A032253 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:30:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3H5T6LV018219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H5SqiN091255; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:28:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f11.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H5SoE4091187 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:28:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:28:45 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.96.43 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 05:28:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.43] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200504161801.j3GI1Bm6022631@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 00:28:45 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2005 05:28:45.0753 (UTC) FILETIME=[53630A90:01C5430E] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] terminology question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I received an email this evening from a lady who has run across a term "soles of Joseph" (see http://falcon.arts.cornell.edu/prh3/310/texts%5Cfavent.html "History or Narration Concerning the Manner and Form of the Miraculous Parliament at Westminster in the year 1386, in the tenth year of the reign of King Richard the Second after the Conquest, declared by Thomas Favent, Clerk. translated by Andrew Galloway" The phrase was "His tunic was made out of old russet, extending down to mid-shin, as if he were an old man, and he had a wiry and thick beard, and wore red boots with the soles of Joseph, looking more like a pilgrim or beggar than a king’s justice." Anyone actually know what this refers to? I'm thinking maybe something wooden, but am open to suggestions. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 17 04:47:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3H8lTu2008703 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 04:47:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3H8kNLV011676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:46:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H8kEvF021102; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:46:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.181]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3H8kCma020943 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:46:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 4173 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Apr 2005 08:46:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20050417084601.4171.qmail@web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 09:46:01 BST Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 09:46:01 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504161552.j3GFoLmA029726@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bishops Lawn X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you very much, Suzi and Julian, for the info on contacting Hamon's - I have an irresistible urge to visit Jersey now, their shop just sounds wonderful and a sharp contrast to the poor excuses for fabric shops I have here in Edinburgh (it's gotten so much worse in the last five years). I've made contact with one or two shops via the internet (Golden Threads for lovely braid and thread for goldwork, Whaley's for coutil, etc.) but without the list I'd never have heard of this gem. I will keep an eye out for any handkerchief weight linen here in the UK and let you know if I stumble across it - alternatively, a good friend is returning from the States in july and has offered (the STAR) to bring some fabric for me... Thank you once again, Susan Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 17 05:16:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3H9Ghd3008798 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 05:16:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3H9FiLV018323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Apr 2005 03:15:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H9Ffvb040659; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 03:15:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3H9FXOC040450 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 03:15:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2005 09:15:22 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050417101058.014cdd28@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 10:12:15 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bishops Lawn In-Reply-To: <20050417084601.4171.qmail@web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <200504161552.j3GFoLmA029726@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:46 17/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: >Thank you very much, Suzi and Julian, for the info on >contacting Hamon's - I have an irresistible urge to >visit Jersey now, their shop just sounds wonderful and >a sharp contrast to the poor excuses for fabric shops >I have here in Edinburgh (it's gotten so much worse in >the last five years). I've made contact with one or >two shops via the internet (Golden Threads for lovely >braid and thread for goldwork, Whaley's for coutil, >etc.) but without the list I'd never have heard of >this gem. > >I will keep an eye out for any handkerchief weight >linen here in the UK and let you know if I stumble >across it - alternatively, a good friend is returning >from the States in july and has offered (the STAR) to >bring some fabric for me... Any handkerchief linen sources will be gratefully received! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 17 08:30:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3HCUEVV014158 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:30:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3HCSxLV006954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:28:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HCShJL066493; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:28:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HCSebg066392 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:28:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A672945007C; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:28:34 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.127 ([209.131.81.127] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 17 Apr 05 12:28:33 -0000 Message-ID: <002d01c54349$379655c0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <103.5f85b3c2.2f932412@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:30:17 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Westside Story, Sabrina(With Audrey Hepburn) Daddy Longlegs,Twiggy films, Blow Up, Follow the Boys and other Sandra Dee films, Pillow Talk.... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies > "What a Way to Go" has Shirley MacLaine in every early 60s silhouette...all > exaggerated. Any of those jet set crime capers with Audrey Hepburn > {"Charade"}or Sophia Loren {"Arabesque"} do it too for the 60s. For realism check out > the indies or movies like "Easy Rider" or "Z". > > In the 70s things tend to get more realistic as independent films become > more common. Even dance oriented films become real...like "Fame". TV is a good > place to look here. Y'know "Bradey Bunch"! > > 80's go off the deep end again especially with the "we're having fun in > college" or even High School films. And Rap films. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 17 08:33:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3HCXmgq014172 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:33:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3HCWhLV007166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:32:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HCWhcY068991; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:32:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HCWdT4068890 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:32:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A7613EE006E; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:32:33 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.127 ([209.131.81.127] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 17 Apr 05 12:32:32 -0000 Message-ID: <003d01c54349$c607ca00$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] terminology question Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:34:16 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Might they have been worn through? This would support the scruffy look of a pilgrim. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Carlson" To: Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 1:28 AM Subject: [h-cost] terminology question > I received an email this evening from a lady who has run across a term > "soles of Joseph" (see > http://falcon.arts.cornell.edu/prh3/310/texts%5Cfavent.html "History or > Narration Concerning the Manner and Form of the Miraculous Parliament at > Westminster in the year 1386, in the tenth year of the reign of King Richard > the Second after the Conquest, declared by Thomas Favent, Clerk. translated > by Andrew Galloway" > > The phrase was "His tunic was made out of old russet, extending down to > mid-shin, as if he were an old man, and he had a wiry and thick beard, and > wore red boots with the soles of Joseph, looking more like a pilgrim or > beggar than a king's justice." > > Anyone actually know what this refers to? I'm thinking maybe something > wooden, but am open to suggestions. > > Marc > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 17 11:54:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3HFsYo9015171 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:54:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3HFrELV019808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Apr 2005 09:53:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HFqwDr001756; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 09:52:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HFqulw001727 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 09:52:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DNC4u-0006di-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:52:56 -0700 Message-ID: <4262865F.9070408@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:53:03 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fabric term? "End on End" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This fabric is described as being "end on end" I have never heard this term before. Does anyone know what it means? It kinda looks like a denim weave. But the fabric is very light weight. Nice if you like these colors and weave type. http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.cfm?ItmID=846 Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 17 14:20:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3HIKQxs016204 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:20:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3HIJELV029897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:19:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HIJ5nE006277; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:19:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HIJ2OD006247 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:19:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from JRB2 (CPE-65-28-189-254.neb.res.rr.com [65.28.189.254]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j3HI5YCi024261 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:05:34 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric term? "End on End" Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:18:56 -0500 Message-ID: <018d01c54379$ec9a34c0$6501a8c0@JRB2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <4262865F.9070408@earthlink.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3HIJ2OD006247 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In textile terminology, "end" is the same as "warp"--they both refer to the yarns that form the lengthwise grain of the fabric. I can't seem to find the term "end on end" used in my textbooks, but it looks like it's similar to Oxford cloth, which is woven with colored warp threads and white weft threads. Perhaps end on end has some colored and some white warp threads, along with the white weft? Or with a colored weft? In any case, it does refer to a fabric woven of two different color yarns. You are right in seeing a resemblance to denim, which has blue warp threads and white weft. But denim is a twill weave, and the fabric you see at the URL below is not, it's a plain weave. It's likely to be lighter weight than denim, a good weight for shirts or boxer shorts. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Wicked Frau Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:53 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Fabric term? "End on End" This fabric is described as being "end on end" I have never heard this term before. Does anyone know what it means? It kinda looks like a denim weave. But the fabric is very light weight. Nice if you like these colors and weave type. http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.cfm?ItmID=846 Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 17 16:06:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3HK6DFD016842 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:06:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3HK4jLV012164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HK4Tqo082338; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:04:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f25.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HK4QoU082239 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:04:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jessicastier@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:04:21 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.208 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:04:21 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.4.56.208] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jessicastier@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200504171802.j3HI1bvI093728@net.indra.com> From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:04:21 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2005 20:04:21.0409 (UTC) FILETIME=[A513F910:01C54388] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Handkerchief weight cotton X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Everyone! Are there any tips for sewing on handkerchief weight cotton? I'm using my machine and sewing by hand to make a new shift. I keep getting pulled getting pulled threads. I thought I was using a new needle but may not have been, I will figure that out later today. I bought a new pack of needles and will use so I can be sure that it's super sharp. If it's not my needle, could it be stitch length? Any suggestions? Also, am using the idea discussed a week ago about the rolled hem with the button stitch for the sleeves. I really like the look and it adds a bit of weight to the soft, filmy fabric. Thanks!!! :) Primo Lurker, Jessica _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 17 16:20:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3HKK5ab016939 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:20:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3HKJ6LV012975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:19:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HKIw0m091946; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:19:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HKItCv091907 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:18:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from JRB2 (CPE-65-28-189-254.neb.res.rr.com [65.28.189.254]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j3HK5RCi026489 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:05:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Handkerchief weight cotton Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:18:49 -0500 Message-ID: <019301c5438a$ab727500$6501a8c0@JRB2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3HKItCv091907 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A sharp needle is important. Best would be the kind labelled "Microtex" in a small size. Use a correspondingly fine thread. If you have a stitch plate for your machine with a small round hole, instead of the wide opening needed for zig zag stitching, that would help also. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of jessica stier Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 3:04 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Handkerchief weight cotton Hi Everyone! Are there any tips for sewing on handkerchief weight cotton? I'm using my machine and sewing by hand to make a new shift. I keep getting pulled getting pulled threads. I thought I was using a new needle but may not have been, I will figure that out later today. I bought a new pack of needles and will use so I can be sure that it's super sharp. If it's not my needle, could it be stitch length? Any suggestions? Also, am using the idea discussed a week ago about the rolled hem with the button stitch for the sleeves. I really like the look and it adds a bit of weight to the soft, filmy fabric. Thanks!!! :) Primo Lurker, Jessica _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 17 19:11:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3HNBjvO017933 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:11:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3HNAELV025511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:10:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HN9si1005780; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:09:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thog.systems.wvu.edu (thog.systems.wvu.edu [157.182.232.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HN9o4l005678 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:09:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by thog.systems.wvu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3HN9iho025688 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:09:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:09:44 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:09:33 -0400 From: "Rhonda Donaldson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] handkerchief linen ( Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi, I am coming over in about 9 days and would lug some over for you. Will be in London May 4th, but will be in Edinburgh from April 27th ... or if this is too soon or too late, can keep you posted on other trips to the UK. I try to go and see my friends once a year or so. Rhonda Donalson Rhonda Donaldson LTA II e-Reserves Jr. Guru in Training Circulation Department Downtown Campus Library P O Box 6069 Morgantown, WV 26506 293-4040 x4094 rhonda.donaldson@mail.wvu.edu "Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." --Frank Herbert >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 4/16/2005 4:26:12 PM >>> At 15:19 16/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: >>>Fabric.com has handkerchief linen at the moment for $7.95 per yard, and >>>they're running a 12% off coupon through Wednesday. The colors are all >>>pretty dark though. >> >>See my previous note. Living in England, this is far too much hassle. >>Suzi > > >Certainly, shipping overseas is almost never a bargain. But for Diana and >the others in the US who were looking for something under the "$15 or more >per yard" price it is a very good deal. There are times when I wish I worked in the U.S. and had access to all the costuming facilities that you have. Then I look at the Tower of London and St. Paul's Cathedral as I cross the bridge to go shopping, and remember why I'm glad I don't. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 17 21:18:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3I1IBP8018408 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:18:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3I1GmLV006904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:16:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3I1Gag0094151; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:16:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp815.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp815.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3I1GURG094082 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:16:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp815.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2005 01:16:29 -0000 Message-ID: <013f01c543b4$46108830$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Florence: Galeria del Costume (Was: Venice...) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:16:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To anyone who wishes to go to the Galeria del Costume in Florence... it has very limited hours. It's only open until about 2 in the afternoon, and not every day. My husband was ill when I was there so I never made it in. We got there at closing on the only day we had time to squeeze it in. Very disappointing, so I suggest you check hours in advance so as not to run into the same problem. angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cin" To: "h-cost" Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 5:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] Florence: Galeria del Costume (Was: Venice...) > La Galeria del Costume is the name of the costume collection in the > Pitti Palace, Florence. I have heard it's the largest collection in > Italy. The books "Galeria del Costume" are the biannual (more or > less) catalogs highlighting elements of the colllection. I have issues > 3-5. > They are not costume histories of Ital fashion, they have full page, > color pics of mostly 19th c Italian couture garments. Marvelous > examples of other European high-end 18th c garments. IIRC under 20 > euros each? > I dont read Italian, only French & some Spanish, so I just puzzle out > bits. The Galeria was closed for restoration & remodeling when I was > in Florence 2 yrs ago. It's supposed to be open again, with the newly > conserved Medici garments on display. I'm hoping to go in July. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > > What is "Galeria del Costume"? I've been looking for a good Italian > costume > reference..preferably one that isn't in the thousands of dollars..... > > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 17 21:18:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3I1IUaq018411 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:18:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3I1HOLV006941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:17:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3I1HOND094580; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:17:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41907.mail.yahoo.com (web41907.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3I1HMS6094507 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:17:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 10686 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Apr 2005 01:17:16 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=iovR/QnXIGWkGA2LBnKaj0ct6ojMjihGklXPcGVFMiUCJa/2LEGd0pD9jX9eceCZnk39Ke4RztvvxqMoDTBeWH/cODA9+AbITNuGiDzxTf5gk1UrrFzCAEEmhaOarr9zLx9m6n6o1thVbMoXmBEuAQ+rtG3VA1H+uLrqdhaHvzY= ; Message-ID: <20050418011716.10679.qmail@web41907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.190] by web41907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:17:16 PDT Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:17:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Battlestar To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My Husband wants the Lego ones.....LOL!!! Satine --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 18 09:29:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3IDTqic022329 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:29:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3IDIoLV011762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:18:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IDIXdn063364; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:18:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3IDIUTQ063221 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:18:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from snappylunch_2001@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 83909 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Apr 2005 13:18:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20050418131824.83907.qmail@web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.4.90.6] by web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 06:18:23 PDT Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 06:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Mia Dappert To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504152333.j3FNXCwI068463@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:bonnetts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 1950's interesting thought. What springs immediatedly to my mind is 1950's costuming for historical epics, like Audrey Hepburn in War and Peace... or little girls at Easter and Christmas ( Although I don't think I ever had one like that, and I was a little 50's girl) Mia in Charlotte --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 18 09:33:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3IDXp0b022368 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:33:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3IDPSLV012285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IDPOCh068259; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:25:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IDPM1A068169 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:25:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.54.426a7113 (4468) for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:25:14 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <54.426a7113.2f950f3a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:25:14 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:bonnetts To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/18/2005 9:24:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, snappylunch_2001@yahoo.com writes: and I was a little 50's girl) Now that you mention it, I think one of my Easter bonnets did look much like that. I'll have to see if I can find the picture. It was 1957 or so. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 18 13:37:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3IHboT8024102 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:37:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3IHXDLV025250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IHWx9C094304; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:32:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts7.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IHWrsi094157 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:32:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.197]) by simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050418173247.GOQN3701.simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:32:47 -0400 Message-ID: <002d01c5443d$3235af00$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Fw: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:36:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Looks like this hasn't posted yet, sorry if this comes through twice... Sheridan > > Greetings all, > > > > I am looking to put together a list of movies for my students from the > > 60-80s that shows contemporary fashions. Does anyone have any > > suggestions for movies that clearly show contemporary dress? I'm also > > looking for movies that idealized contemporary fashion/ interiors. > > > > Thanks!! > > > > Althea Turner > > Hmm, Flashdance and The Breakfast Club and Pretty in Pink pop into mind for > the 80's, or at least that was the clothing we were all trying to emulate... > War Games also comes to mind for 'average joe' youth fashion. > > How about Close Encounters for early 80's? I second the motion for Easy > Rider and all of the James Bond flix. > > For any range of over the top 80's and 90's fashions, you can get on DVD the > TV series Dallas, Falcons Crest, Beverly Hills 90210, or any other evening > soap. > > Just my two bits > > Sheridan > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 18 14:47:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3IIl46H024580 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:47:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3IIjPLV008305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:45:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IIj3pI066285; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:45:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IIiVYe065878 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:44:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DNbES-0009tw-6d for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:44:28 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 19:42:58 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: [h-cost] OT Left weave? was Fabric term? "End on End" References: <4262865F.9070408@earthlink.net> <018d01c54379$ec9a34c0$6501a8c0@JRB2> In-Reply-To: <018d01c54379$ec9a34c0$6501a8c0@JRB2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This gives me an opportunity to ask about something that has been bugging me. Gap over here has been running this advertising saying that their new jeans are softer because they're woven to the left instead of to the right. This sounds like total pseudoscience to me, about as convincing as face cream adverts, but is there anything in it? If you use the same thread, same weave pattern, will it make any difference whether your twill goes to the left or to the right? And if so why? Jean Kim Baird wrote >In textile terminology, "end" is the same as "warp"--they both refer to the >yarns that form the lengthwise grain of the fabric. > >I can't seem to find the term "end on end" used in my textbooks, but it >looks like it's similar to Oxford cloth, which is woven with colored warp >threads and white weft threads. Perhaps end on end has some colored and some >white warp threads, along with the white weft? Or with a colored weft? > >In any case, it does refer to a fabric woven of two different color yarns. >You are right in seeing a resemblance to denim, which has blue warp threads >and white weft. But denim is a twill weave, and the fabric you see at the >URL below is not, it's a plain weave. It's likely to be lighter weight than >denim, a good weight for shirts or boxer shorts. > >Kim > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Wicked Frau >Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:53 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Fabric term? "End on End" > > >This fabric is described as being "end on end" I have never heard this >term before. Does anyone know what it means? It kinda looks like a >denim weave. But the fabric is very light weight. Nice if you like >these colors and weave type. > >http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.cfm?ItmID=846 > >Sg >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 18 15:25:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3IJPs8U024854 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:25:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3IJIoLV011254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:18:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IJIga4091101; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:18:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.primushost.com (smtp1.primushost.com [209.58.220.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IJIcFG090844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:18:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DNblM-00075v-8g; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:18:28 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1DNbeE-0001XO-00; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:11:06 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:11:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Battlestar was: Still lagging memos?????? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a friend who made Battlestar costumes years ago, when the series was current, and they used briefcase (or the like) clasps for the clasps on the jackets. The outfits are eerily accurate Katy On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, Althea Turner wrote: >Here are some websites... > >http://www.kobol.com/costumes/c02.html > >well ok, just one, but some good shots of 3 costumes, but not the one >you want.. >Althea > >On Thursday, April 14, 2005, at 09:52 PM, Lady Satine wrote: > >> That was my first thought....I have the series on DVD and a Broked DVD >> player... Noone I know in this neck of the woods likes the "old" >> series they are all into the new one on SCI FI Channel.. I will keep >> looking now back to lurking and looking at teh archives.. >> >> Satine >> >> >> Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >> >>> I had to ask!!!! I Figured if anyone would have a clue it would be >>> here!..... The 7 year old who wants it for Haloween asked me to make >>> that >>> Battlestar Galatica... (What he said). Pre Star Wars Fighter suit!1 ya >>> know the orginal tv thing....... I thought it was cute.. I just had to >>> ask!!!!!! >> >> If you really want to know, get ahold of an episode of it and watch >> it. I >> never did watch that show, so I can't be of any help here. >> >> >> CarolynKayta Barrows >> dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian >> www.FunStuft.com >> >> //// \\\ >> ////-@@\\\ >> (((( 7 ))) >> ((( <> )))) >> ) (((((( >> /----\ /---\)) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >Althea Turner >*** althea@alfalfapress.com >*** http://www.alfalfapress.com > >Reunite Pangea! > >It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the >masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth >does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the >people. >- Giordano Bruno > >Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. >- Gunn > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 18 15:41:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3IJfPRo024931 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:41:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3IJVtLV013324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:31:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IJVjoZ030578; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:31:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IJVg0U030391 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:31:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A5922F00B0; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:08:02 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.128 ([209.131.81.128] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 18 Apr 05 19:08:00 -0000 Message-ID: <002001c5444a$305e9220$805183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200504131802.j3DI1fMr075459@net.indra.com><20050413205313.70280.qmail@web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:the bonnet Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:09:44 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think for the 19th C, the brim should flare for the earlier period. Wet it and reblock it. This is quite easy to do. kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Waddie" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:the bonnet > Interesting! Knowing absolutely nothing about any period with bonnets, > looking at it I thought, "it's 1950s!" The way the edge curves inwards > at the last moment, instead of continuing the flare. If you had to > guess who would wear it, it would be Audrey Hepburn. > > So, people who suggested dates in the 1800s - is it a "good enough for > the look" or are there examples with that turned-in edge? > > Jean > > > Mia Dappert wrote > > > >To me this is one of the "IT DEPENDS" answers > > > >If you are doing it for the costume, and the look of, early to mid > >1800's is probably good. I'm thinking Dicken's Fairs( is that right? > >We don't have them here in Charlotte, NC) and swanning around garb at a > >Am Civ War renactment. > > > >If you are doing it for someone who is a bit more into the "authentic" > >end, it probably would not suffice for anything. ( well maybe > >pre-1840s, I don't know those shapes as well as 1840s-1860s.) For the > >more authentically minded there are better (if probably more expensive > >alternatives) > > > >This will probably get something stirred up as the above reply sounds > >slightly holier than thou, but my personal journey is leading me to the > >more authentic, rather than the costume. I love hearing about the > >costumers among us, and their perspective and learning from the many > >helpful hints that have gotten ME out of several binds My decision for > >myself are leaning to the authentic and progressive (a current Am Civ > >War term that I find the best definition (to me) means "our clothing , > >material culture and demenor is progressing to what we hope is a more > >authentic level.). > > > >Keep on will all the good comments. This is how we learn > > > >Mia in Charlotte > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 18 17:13:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ILDmEA025578 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:13:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3IL4QLV026543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:04:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IL47fr019742; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:04:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IL44Hj019665 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:04:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 93497A0A3A; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:04:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust168.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.168]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 48C15A0698 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:04:07 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000d01c5445a$4e3d41f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002d01c5443d$3235af00$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:05:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone else keep thinking of that "I Love Lucy" episode where they're all in Paris; the women want high fashion clothing, and the men make some ridiculous burlap & feedbag outfit? I know 50s is earlier than you wanted, but boy does that episode ever show some exaggerated 50s high fashion styles. I'm not a big Barbra Streisand fan, but some of her movies might be pretty good for 70s styles. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 18 18:05:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3IM5BvK025921 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:05:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3IM1bLV004518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:01:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IM1Pcm073854; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:01:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IM1MgJ073738 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:01:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.154]) by ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050418220116.LYCA15030.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:01:16 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050418164833.029d2cc0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:01:12 -0500 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Encyclopedia of clothing and fashion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone seen this set? I'm interested in 1650 and earlier and wondering if it would be of any use. Beth Matney > This just came out and was very positively reviewed > by CHOICE: > > Encyclopedia of clothing and fashion. ed. by > Valerie Steele. Scribner, > 2005. 3v bibl index afp (1600 pages) ISBN 0-684-31394-4, $395.00 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 18 19:29:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3INTfOf026404 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 19:29:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3INKLLV012600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3INJwBa038966; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:19:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3INJsCG038900 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:19:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10715 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:35:24 -0500 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:35:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Opinions on a portrait (1485-90 Flanders)? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A few years ago, in a museum in Spain, I came across a portrait whose subject is a dead ringer for a certain friend (Don the photographer, for those who have met him when he travels with me). I sometimes make him costumes, and he's a 15th-century kinda guy, so I've been kicking around the idea of kitting him up like the portrait: http://www.wga.hu/html/m/memling/3mature5/30young.html Flanders is my preferred region, but 1485-90 is just a smidgen later than my comfort zone, and so I'm pondering the gold bands over the front and on the arms. At first I thought they were some sort of smocking attached to the shirt, but looking at the enlarged version (it's been years since I saw the original, so I had forgotten) I can clearly see that the horizontal bands twist independently of the shirt fabric as they come toward the center, where they tie. Something similar is happening on the arms, only more of a latticework, fastened into dark cuffs at the wrist. That looks like a royal nuisance to fit *and* to wear! But the wrinkling of the gold bands does suggest they move independently of the shirt. It appears that the latticework forms a sleeve, and the dark garment has slit sleeves hanging over that. That would suggest that the band arrangement in front belongs not to the dark garment, but to a separate cote/jupon/pourpoint/whatever whose body is completely hidden except for the bands visible at the front. The black overgarment has a turned-down fur collar, which you can see the edge of if you look at his right shoulder (our left). Thus, three garments: shirt, band-edged cote with latticed sleeves, black fur-trimmed (fur-lined?) overcote with slit sleeves. So, what does that hidden cote look like on the body? Surely it's not latticework all over. How ... kinky? No, how awkward! I am thinking instead that the horizontal bands attach to the open front edges of the cote, and there are just a couple of vertical bands spaced alongside the cote edge on each side to create the visible latticework. The odd thing at the side of the neck (our left, sitter's right) could be a small stand-up collar from the body of the cote; it appears to be the same dark brown as the cuffs that hold the latticed sleeves, so perhaps reflects the main body fabric of the hidden cote. Does this make sense? Alternate readings are welcome. Also, on that shirt: It looks as though the bulk is gathered into fine pleating, stabilized between two lines of black stitching to form the upper edge. Any ideas on the stitching technique that would create a smooth upper edge? It's not wavy as you'd expect if you edge the fabric first and then gathered it up; it looks as though the black line is actually holding the pleating in place. Maybe just overcast to both finish the edge and secure the pleats at the same time? Maybe the linen is folded over so you don't have to deal with a raw edge up there, just the pleating, and the raw edge could be turned under about a half-inch lower and caught in a second line of stitching to hold the gathers? The sleeve edges are different; they appear simply gathered into band cuffs. It all feels rather Italian, but there was a lot of artistic interchange between Italy and Flanders at this time, and this is a common undercurrent in Memling's work. The sitter is unknown, but presumably is Flemish. However, Memling did have some Italian clients, so who knows? In any case, it would look smashing on my friend. For a very old photo (probably about 20 years old now) of him in something a bit more costumey but with similar lines, see: http://www.tancos.net/costume/blackred.html He made that one himself! His wardrobe is a bit more sober now, and I think black fur and brown velvet and gold bands would suit him. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 19 07:35:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3JBZBA8030582 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 07:35:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3JBY0LV028154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Apr 2005 05:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JBXicw054460; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 05:33:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JBXc94054321 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 05:33:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-166-230-3.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.166.230.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3JBXOf2003691 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:33:30 +1000 Message-ID: <020d01c544d3$7adfc240$03e6a6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com><4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050412141603.024f0fa0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:32:27 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > We know the pattern for the shirts we have surviving examples of. Take > that pattern, and instead of adding the sleeves right at the top of the > body pieces, add them maybe 6" down the side seams from the top. Then sew > up the side seams above them, making a large tube of the body pieces, open > at the top. Now gather the open top of the body pieces into a hole the > size of the neck. That's it. > > This causes the grain of the body pieces to run in concentric circles > around the neck seam, taking any embroidery along with it, as seen in the > "girl from 1569" portrait I cited. This hauls the tops of the sleeves > right into a wide neckline, as seen in the Henry VIII portrait I > cited. This makes lots of gathering right at the bottom of the neck > band. And it does all this simply, without any extra calculation, pattern > pieces, or fussing. > Although this sounds really good and it seems like a really logical way of constructing a partlet the portrait of Helena Snakeborg http://www.tudor-portraits.com/HelenaSnakeborg.jpg you can see that the flowers all face the same way around her neck the stems really make it obvious, they are not radiating out from the neckline as they would if the grain was running around the neck instead of across the shoulders. However, Queen Elizabeth's Pelican portrait http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth22.jpg does have gold bands radiating out from the neckline, and they appear to be connected to the fabric rather than just some form of Jewelery laid on top, so perhaps this does show your theoretical cut, I'll keep looking for other examples (hopefully somebody else can find something because I really like your theory), but so far Helena Snakeborg's portrait doesn't support your theory and the Pelican Portrait quite possibly does, the other portraits I've seen don't seem to be conclusive as to whether the grain goes over the shoulder or around the neck. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Beaumont | Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac | Canberra, Australia ewalpole@iimetro.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 19 08:55:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3JCtqNi031185 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:55:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3JCsOLV013938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:54:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JCsL2V011576; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:54:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pony.uvm.edu (pony.uvm.edu [132.198.101.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JCsI2u011497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:54:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [132.198.92.169] (ip092169.uvm.edu [132.198.92.169]) by pony.uvm.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3JCs5pH007662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:54:13 -0400 Message-ID: <4264FF72.8050909@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:54:10 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Opinions on a portrait (1485-90 Flanders)? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >A few years ago, in a museum in Spain, I came across a portrait whose > >http://www.wga.hu/html/m/memling/3mature5/30young.html > > Here are a couple musings. They would be an odd way to construct garments so I don't quite believe myself, but they would, perhaps, explain the visual evidence. 1) Three layers: a) white shirt which shows at the chest in center front b) over that, a fine white garment/cote with gold trim. The garment is gathered/pleated and the horizontal bands are attached directly to the white fabric. The vertical bands are only attached by a few stitches at each point where they cross the horizontal bands. The two vertical bands at center front may be lattice work--that is, the first bit of white on either side of the center front may be this second layer of garment or may be the shirt. If they are lattice, then the center horizontal ties are pulling/taking the strain up from the second row of vertical trim which is securely attached to the edges of the garment/cote. The sleeves are finished with a dark cuff. c) the napped overgarment 2) Four layers--not unusual, though it seems a bit weird to modern eyes a) white shirt, only visible at wrists b) dark tight fitting garment with long sleeves, collar/edge of which shows at back left neckline and at wrists (that is, the dark material is the bottom of this long sleeved tight garment, not cuffs for lattice work garment) c) white garment of fine material with gold trim constructed as described above, pleated/gathered into a narrow piping band at neck. This garment is showing in center front, not the body shirt layer. The wrist edge is gathered/hemmed to stand alone, not gathered into the dark cuffs, with some kind of button/fastening to close them tightly. There is enough volume in the front due to the gathering it could simply slip over the head, then tie up across the chest. Again, the ties are anchored to vertical trim pieced that are affixed to the garment, not simply "floating" above it with a few anchor points as are the rest of the vertical bands. This garment has that fairly common wide neckline--the one that looks like the tailor goofed and didn't drop the neckline forward of the shoulder line--very Italian--but would also result in a neckline wide enough to slip over the head. That kind of neckline construction also usually results in a fair amount of the back of the neck showing, in this case allowing the tight fitting darker underlayer to show. (See many similar necklines on Italian portraits--especially those in profile--the poor guys look like they are being choked. Also, my guess, based on facial features common to other portraits, is that this guy is Italian, not Flemish.) The more I think about it the more I like the "four layers" method--there just seems to be too much volume in the visible white layer for it to be the body/shirt layer. So, a couple ideas--fun portrait! - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 19 09:05:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3JD5dwU031245 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:05:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3JD4iLV016144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Apr 2005 07:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JD4faO018866; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 07:04:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JD4dXt018767 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 07:04:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:04:31 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:04:22 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Opinions on a portrait (1485-90 Flanders)? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin, Yes, Don will look smashing in this :). Altho I do miss some of his more flamboyant days :) :). I've had a little experience trying lattice work doublets for faire and suggest you make the back of the doublet, and possibly part of the sides, out of something solid. I'm not sure that collar is part of the latticeworked piece however, it definately is not the fur collar though. These types of clothing must have been the height of fashionably indolence, they remind me of the fashion for long fingernails in China, to demonstrate that you were wealthy enough you didn't not have to use your hands for anything. It does seem that the latticework over the forearms is a little closer together, so maybe it would not catch on things as much. Good Luck! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 19 09:22:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3JDMYRm031351 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:22:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3JCdTLV010248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:39:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JCdL15000817; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:39:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3JCdE0J000602 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:39:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2005 12:39:04 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050419133621.015e0370@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 13:39:06 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) In-Reply-To: <020d01c544d3$7adfc240$03e6a6cb@ewalpole> References: <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050412141603.024f0fa0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 21:32 19/04/2005 +1000, you wrote: > > > We know the pattern for the shirts we have surviving examples of. Take > > that pattern, and instead of adding the sleeves right at the top of the > > body pieces, add them maybe 6" down the side seams from the top. Then sew > > up the side seams above them, making a large tube of the body pieces, open > > at the top. Now gather the open top of the body pieces into a hole the > > size of the neck. That's it. > > > > This causes the grain of the body pieces to run in concentric circles > > around the neck seam, taking any embroidery along with it, as seen in the > > "girl from 1569" portrait I cited. This hauls the tops of the sleeves > > right into a wide neckline, as seen in the Henry VIII portrait I > > cited. This makes lots of gathering right at the bottom of the neck > > band. And it does all this simply, without any extra calculation, pattern > > pieces, or fussing. > > > >Although this sounds really good and it seems like a really logical way of >constructing a partlet the portrait of Helena Snakeborg >http://www.tudor-portraits.com/HelenaSnakeborg.jpg you can see that the >flowers all face the same way around her neck the stems really make it >obvious, they are not radiating out from the neckline as they would if the >grain was running around the neck instead of across the shoulders. However, >Queen Elizabeth's Pelican portrait >http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth22.jpg does have gold bands >radiating out from the neckline, and they appear to be connected to the >fabric rather than just some form of Jewelery laid on top, so perhaps this >does show your theoretical cut, I'll keep looking for other examples >(hopefully somebody else can find something because I really like your >theory), but so far Helena Snakeborg's portrait doesn't support your theory >and the Pelican Portrait quite possibly does, the other portraits I've seen >don't seem to be conclusive as to whether the grain goes over the shoulder >or around the neck. Here http://www.abcgallery.com/T/titian/titian37.html is another portrait that may (or may not) reinforce the original theory. I made this too - it can be seen on my web site. I made it like an ordinary partlet, a la Hunnisett. It worked perfectly well, but was puffy, as I used silk organza, and although I washed it, I could not get rid of the stiffness!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 19 10:23:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3JENKRv031745 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:23:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3JEM5LV027305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JELvn0083644; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:21:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JELs73083573 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:21:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21016 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:21:50 -0500 (CDT) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:21:49 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Scaled Tudor(and other)headdress patterns in book Thread-Index: AcVE4psqGuJb2TygQK6Yce6ZA94/WwAB44uw From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3JELs73083573 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Scaled Tudor(and other)headdress patterns in book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm looking for a book, I believe it was perhaps for costume designers for the stage, but I'm not sure. My public library used to have it, but it was either discarded or "liberated" some time ago. I recall it had scaled patterns on a grid, much like Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion books, and was partially or completely dedicated to historic men's and women's headgear. I clearly remember that it contained patterns for English and French hoods and some 17th and 18th century headgear and mobcaps. If anyone can id this book, I'd be most grateful and hopefully can get a copy via Interlibrary Loan, or ideally used for cheap. Many thanks. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 19 10:43:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3JEhY2a031957 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:43:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3JEgALV000540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JEg2tu002116; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:42:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3JEfq5x001844 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:41:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2005 14:41:46 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050419153629.014d00a8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:41:50 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scaled Tudor(and other)headdress patterns in book In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:21 19/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: > > > I'm looking for a book, I believe it was perhaps for costume designers >for the stage, but I'm not sure. My public library used to have it, but >it was either discarded or "liberated" some time ago. I recall it had >scaled patterns on a grid, much like Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion >books, and was partially or completely dedicated to historic men's and >women's headgear. I clearly remember that it contained patterns for >English and French hoods and some 17th and 18th century headgear and >mobcaps. > >If anyone can id this book, I'd be most grateful and hopefully can get a >copy via Interlibrary Loan, or ideally used for cheap. I think what you are after is called "From the Neck Up" by Denise Dreher, published in the U.S. From the pattern point of view I have not yet found one of the patterns that I am happy with. I have tried several, and ended up making my own patterns instead. Others may feel differently. However, the section on techniques and making up is very useful. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 19 12:23:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3JGN0lU000463 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:23:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3JGLWLV011765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:21:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JGKnZi095024; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:20:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3JGKFxw094448 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:20:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 28901 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2005 16:37:20 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:37:20 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1103.24.4.69.40.1113927609.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? Contact and use info please From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Now that is a different problem. Could you be really, really kind, and see > if your friend can remember where she got her handkerchief linen from? It > sometimes turns up at Re-enactor markets, if you're lucky, Suzi, I guess that is where she got it--at the Coventry Reenactors Market in November. Here is the info she sent me: The company is: Fabric of Time, Suppliers of Fine Irish Linen. Laurie & Elaine 01522 595597 laurence@fabricoftime.freeserve.co.uk All my friend had was an e-mail address and the name but it is a start. I hope that you can connect with them. I think my friend said she paid $5 pounds per metre or something like that. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 19 14:20:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3JIKFgt001544 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 14:20:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3JIIvLV025936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:18:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JIIZxY011621; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:18:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.160]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JIIShO011450 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:18:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from Webshield (unknown [165.248.247.154]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 779783F7E for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:18:25 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by Webshield (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1113934704988; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:18:24 -1000 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:18:25 -1000 (HST) From: lisa X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scaled Tudor(and other)headdress patterns in book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cindy, Could it have been From the Neck Up: An Illustrated Guide to Hatmaking by Denise Dreher? It does have gridded patterns for both men and women for a range of time periods. --lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 19 22:42:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3K2gh9G004591 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:42:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3K2fMLV028031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3K2f4Wg052339; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:41:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40426.mail.yahoo.com (web40426.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.92.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3K2f0RU052217 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:41:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 54272 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Apr 2005 02:40:55 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=z3TtFUa66la2TS4n4Tap4S02gXUdy0GOwkQ73YIAhHz3cnScgLvxE+KlFZwBwi0Kfizmm814BSe6GKFUdPc7g1WbBMEEBH7bi9FQUc1EL6as2AN27LplJLbrlzi8GNrctzkhppBQviop8qmDeZFKQQA5fLjiFODEaEcpDsiYavc= ; Message-ID: <20050420024055.54270.qmail@web40426.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.176.127] by web40426.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:40:55 PDT Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:40:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504170457.j3H4uV0q069645@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Hearst Castle (was Linen in the US for under $10) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:22:53 +0100 > From: Suzi Clarke > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen in the US for under $10 > > (Recently acquired Costume Close-up and Fitting and > Proper this > way, and am expecting a video of film I made costumes for, for > Hearst Castle no less - la-di dah!) > OOOO! I was just at Hearst Castle. Did you do the costumes for the Imax movie the show in the visitor center? I was admiring them when I saw the movie. ~Mary "Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick & wicked." ~ Jane Austen "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 00:32:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3K4WNgA005103 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:32:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3K4UrLV011101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:30:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3K4Ub7j033930; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:30:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3K4UaTa033859 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:30:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005042004303001400nh8noe>; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 04:30:30 +0000 Message-ID: <006001c54561$af5e1510$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050420024055.54270.qmail@web40426.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hearst Castle Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:30:30 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO drool.... I would love to see the Hearst Castle. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 03:48:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3K7mILS001648 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 03:48:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3K7l9LV011583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 01:47:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3K7kt8u076302; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 01:46:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3K7klZH076137 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 01:46:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2005 07:46:41 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050420084125.014cfd78@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:46:46 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hearst Castle (was Linen in the US for under $10) In-Reply-To: <20050420024055.54270.qmail@web40426.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200504170457.j3H4uV0q069645@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 19:40 19/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: > > Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:22:53 +0100 > > From: Suzi Clarke > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen in the US for under $10 > > > > (Recently acquired Costume Close-up and Fitting and > > Proper this > > way, and am expecting a video of film I made costumes for, for > > Hearst Castle no less - la-di dah!) > > > >OOOO! I was just at Hearst Castle. Did you do the costumes for the >Imax movie the show in the visitor center? I was admiring them when >I saw the movie. I think so, although they may now have a new one. The film I made costumes for was made in 1996, and some of the costumes came from the best costume house in London (IMHO) Cosprop. However, I made the lady some underwear, which she wore throughout, a mix and match purple green and turquoise set of clothes (sounds hideous doesn't it?) and a child's sailor suit. When I get my video I'll be able to judge - it was made for National Geographic. Was the film set in 1873, and involved Hearst as a boy visiting Europe with his mother? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 06:12:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3KACjKS006798 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:12:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3KAC1LV019135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 04:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KAC1LG069343; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 04:12:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KABwgf069306 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 04:11:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-217-57-149.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.217.57.149]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3KAB3SJ012381 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:11:54 +1000 Message-ID: <020401c54590$c983ea80$9539d9cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050414120759.014cc360@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric organization Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:15:44 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric organization > At 03:55 14/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: > >I know what you mean about the fun of rediscovering things you'd forgotten > >you had - I've recently had that fun when we had to sort through and > >repack many, many boxes of stuff before we moved house, although many of > >my rediscoveries were of books. ( We now have a storage area approx. 2m x > >2m which is packed solid to a height of 2.5m with boxes filled mostly with > >books! ) > > > > > > > > > > >I think this may the article you have in mind. > > > > > >http://www.bitwizards.com/norborough/timetosew.html > > > I just had another read of the article. However, when I got to the line > "Get your fabric into one area" I had to stop - I was laughing so much. My > fabric is already in one place - all over my workroom, in boxes, on > shelves, in cupboards and drawers!! My method would have to be > > 1) Empty Workroom. > > 2) Build extension (difficult as I am 2 floors up!) > > 3) Build acres of shelves > > 4) Buy hundreds - well a hundred to start - boxes > > 5) Give up before 1) > > The method described would be wonderful if you haven't got much fabric, or > hadn't been collecting fabric for over 20 years. (Or didn't have fabric for > customers, who haven't collected it!!) (Or had a week spare to do it!) > > Suzi yeah one room counts as one place so you've achieved step one. Buy the boxes (clear plastic so you can see what's inside) one or two at a time (whenever you are near a shop that sells clear plastic boxes stop in and buy one) and stack them on top of each other with the empty ones on top of the full ones, decide how to divide up the stash along whatever lines works for you and whenever you have to move a piece of fabric to get at the other piece of fabric underneath put it in a box, and make a note. Don't tell me you don't spend half an hour searching for that piece of fabric you know is in there somewhere, that would be perfect for XYZ. You don't need a week spare, just a couple of months worth of half hour blocks or a year's worth of five minute blocks. I'm in the process of doing this at the moment I've only got about four years worth of fabric so it's probably nothing on the scale of yours but so far I've got a box for brocades and one for canvas as those are the two types of fabric I've got the most of. The rest is still all over the place, but I know exactly where to look if I'm doing a project that involves brocade and canvas ;-) I'm also considering creating a 'project' box for all the bits involved in what I'm making now. Hopefully it will help me discipline myself into doing only one project at a time and avoid getting side-tracked by another project that looks all new and shiny when I go to pull out the necessary components from my stash. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole@iimetro.com.au Mr. Speaker, I said the honourable member was a liar it is true and I am sorry for it. The honourable member may place the punctuation where he pleases. Richard Brinsley Sheridan (1751-1816) British dramatist. On being asked to apologise for calling a fellow MP a liar. Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 06:12:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3KACjdW006799 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:12:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3KABxLV019132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 04:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KABlMY069186; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 04:11:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KABgWd069077 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 04:11:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-217-57-149.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.217.57.149]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3KAB3SH012381 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:11:30 +1000 Message-ID: <020301c54590$bc286be0$9539d9cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <213f30e97f388e446b5a1632cadb753b@ntw.net> <5b54f23a1eb072d5c1f7e467cef68436@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval dress Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:43:41 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval dress > Yes, that's the right one. My concern is not with how easy it is to > make, but how authentic it is. However, I've since talked to my > customer who has decided she now whats something entirely different. I > will find out tomorrow and then I will probably have more questions. > > Sylrog > Simplicity has something similar (#8735) that will make up a reasonable high waisted late15th to early 16th century Italian gown, rather like the blue dress in this McCalls pattern. You might want to point her towards that if she's interested in this style, I've written a webpage on fixing this pattern http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole//Ever_After/fixingEA.htm Simplicity has another pattern #9531 which appears to be a better recreation of the style than 8735 but doesn't have an overdress. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole@iimetro.com.au Mr. Speaker, I said the honourable member was a liar it is true and I am sorry for it. The honourable member may place the punctuation where he pleases. Richard Brinsley Sheridan (1751-1816) British dramatist. On being asked to apologise for calling a fellow MP a liar. Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 06:29:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3KATbwM006872 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:29:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3KAT1LV020212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 04:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KASwC2080441; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 04:28:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3KASpLS080290 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 04:28:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2005 10:28:45 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050420111843.014cfe90@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:28:51 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric organization In-Reply-To: <020401c54590$c983ea80$9539d9cb@ewalpole> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050414120759.014cc360@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I think this may the article you have in mind. > > > > > > > >http://www.bitwizards.com/norborough/timetosew.html > > > > > > I just had another read of the article. However, when I got to the line > > "Get your fabric into one area" I had to stop - I was laughing so much. My > > fabric is already in one place - all over my workroom, in boxes, on > > shelves, in cupboards and drawers!! My method would have to be > > > > 1) Empty Workroom. > > > > 2) Build extension (difficult as I am 2 floors up!) > > > > 3) Build acres of shelves > > > > 4) Buy hundreds - well a hundred to start - boxes > > > > 5) Give up before 1) > > > > The method described would be wonderful if you haven't got much fabric, or > > hadn't been collecting fabric for over 20 years. (Or didn't have fabric >for > > customers, who haven't collected it!!) (Or had a week spare to do it!) > > > > Suzi > >yeah one room counts as one place so you've achieved step one. Buy the >boxes (clear plastic so you can see what's inside) one or two at a time >(whenever you are near a shop that sells clear plastic boxes stop in and buy >one) and stack them on top of each other with the empty ones on top of the >full ones, decide how to divide up the stash along whatever lines works for >you and whenever you have to move a piece of fabric to get at the other >piece of fabric underneath put it in a box, and make a note. Don't tell me >you don't spend half an hour searching for that piece of fabric you know is >in there somewhere, that would be perfect for XYZ. You don't need a week >spare, just a couple of months worth of half hour blocks or a year's worth >of five minute blocks. I already have about 40 boxes, all labelled, two sets of filing drawers and two chests of drawers. Not to mention the shelves with fabric on, the shelves with cigar boxes on them, also labelled, and the standing rolls of fabric. >I'm in the process of doing this at the moment I've only got about four >years worth of fabric so it's probably nothing on the scale of yours but so >far I've got a box for brocades and one for canvas as those are the two >types of fabric I've got the most of. The rest is still all over the place, >but I know exactly where to look if I'm doing a project that involves >brocade and canvas ;-) Oh, I know where everything is that I am likely to use - linings, buttons, threads, interfacings etc. They are all filed and labelled. It's the left overs that are a pain - I cannot throw anything away, in case it might come in handy!! >I'm also considering creating a 'project' box for all >the bits involved in what I'm making now. I have a system of transparent carrier bags, kindly provided (with a logo, but who cares) by one of the shops I buy from. These contain pattern pieces, trimmings, threads etc, and hang on the same hanger as the costume. That way I should not have to go looking for anything to do with each costume. As I often have to work on clothes for several customers at a time, this helps enormously. I think my problem boils down to the fact that there is just too darn much for one business, and I should be strong and throw excess fabric at the charity shop, or the local school, anywhere but in to another box!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 08:07:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3KC7Y8D007433 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:07:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3KC6mLV005363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:06:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KC6fhm040404; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:06:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao04.cox.net (lakermmtao04.cox.net [68.230.240.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KC6bTt040340 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:06:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.186.193.176]) by lakermmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP id <20050420120627.XWDB11124.lakermmtao04.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:06:27 -0400 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] fabric organization Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:06:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcVFlCGIKTbD8ANeQwScQHFaYnvNwAADPt9Q X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050420111843.014cfe90@127.0.0.1> Message-Id: <20050420120627.XWDB11124.lakermmtao04.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/842/Tue Apr 19 15:39:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/842/Tue Apr 19 15:39:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I think my problem boils down to the fact that there is just too darn much >for one business, and I should be strong and throw excess fabric at the >charity shop, or the local school, anywhere but in to another box!! >Suzi But it is so pretty and you just KNOW if you get rid of it you wil need it the next day. Besides, what if something gets torn and the customer needs a repair? Anne (evil grin) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 14:33:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3KIX9Vg010889 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:33:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3KIWaLV026828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:32:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KIWEBf071999; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:32:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41813.mail.yahoo.com (web41813.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.147]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3KIW7vO071766 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:32:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 69030 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Apr 2005 18:32:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=fUouKwGVUsNjbBs4ZuqVfSrkqETdIIEqDas03nUkN5YbWEbx19giYX7vfoh25FY0M8Ws20nC6kQTux/+7xqP/9R5/vGar76aq1jQosT+9Jy045atrA+pgeI8E3HhxLmvX6lJ+LWQVFLlV7rPgsoCV3C220cUb267W74fKUHwDMk= ; Message-ID: <20050420183202.69028.qmail@web41813.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41813.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:32:02 PDT Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:32:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hearst Castle (was Linen in the US for under $10) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They were still playing that one about 4 yrs ago when I went, (remembered the little boy the best) Melody --- Suzi Clarke wrote: > At 19:40 19/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:22:53 +0100 > > > From: Suzi Clarke > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen in the US for under > $10 > > > > > > (Recently acquired Costume Close-up and Fitting > and > > > Proper this > > > way, and am expecting a video of film I made > costumes for, for > > > Hearst Castle no less - la-di dah!) > > > > > > >OOOO! I was just at Hearst Castle. Did you do the > costumes for the > >Imax movie the show in the visitor center? I was > admiring them when > >I saw the movie. > > > I think so, although they may now have a new one. > The film I made costumes > for was made in 1996, and some of the costumes came > from the best costume > house in London (IMHO) Cosprop. However, I made the > lady some underwear, > which she wore throughout, a mix and match purple > green and turquoise set > of clothes (sounds hideous doesn't it?) and a > child's sailor suit. When I > get my video I'll be able to judge - it was made for > National Geographic. > Was the film set in 1873, and involved Hearst as a > boy visiting Europe with > his mother? > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 15:38:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3KJcpGX011298 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:38:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3KJSbNV004562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 13:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KIwpWN096797; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:58:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KIwl9o096651 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:58:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.1a4.36584024 (15887) for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mblk-d26 (mblk-d26.mblk.aol.com [205.188.212.210]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID82-3e0f4266a659c0; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:58:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:58:33 -0400 From: kitsune242@aol.com Message-Id: <8C713F215EA4180-D48-1311@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> Received: from 169.237.109.99 by mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.210) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:58:33 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <20050420120627.XWDB11124.lakermmtao04.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.0.0.12132 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.212.210 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Curry Stains X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings All! I need the collected wisdom of the list. My brand new cotton turtle neck has been stained with curry sauce. As soon as I realized I had gotten the curry sauce on my sweter, I treated it with Shout wipe (but as I was on vacation I was unable to wash it immedately). When we got home on Sunday, we immedately washed the sweater. Then washed it again with a different stain treatment. And again with another one. So it has now been washed three times, with different detergents and such. We have been careful not to dry the sweater. However, the stain is still there. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks, Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 15:44:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3KJiefn011344 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:44:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3KJheLV007102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 13:43:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KJhZSr038811; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 13:43:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40425.mail.yahoo.com (web40425.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.92.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3KJhUdP038654 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 13:43:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 4098 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Apr 2005 19:43:24 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=0ln3e1qau0ss4qleu2mkjjw+Jw+RiwgNs8AX96106CduMx+hroRLgImwQSp5qf/JLRyLlRxrI5e/7VHNg+joq8YP1d9X+sQ62vQnnfrkWMAAEE9R3JhXuP5L2AYBRoBjopqwFnoZ+1k+3PyYI2adv8/oaV7YSPL1OY2e7jfnsVU= ; Message-ID: <20050420194324.4096.qmail@web40425.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.77.204.32] by web40425.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:43:24 PDT Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:43:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504201802.j3KI1m2g043818@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 261 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:46:46 +0100 > From: Suzi Clarke > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hearst Castle > > At 19:40 19/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:22:53 +0100 > > > From: Suzi Clarke > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen in the US for under $10 > > > > > > (Recently acquired Costume Close-up and Fitting and > > > Proper this > > > way, and am expecting a video of film I made costumes for, for > > > Hearst Castle no less - la-di dah!) > > > > > > >OOOO! I was just at Hearst Castle. Did you do the costumes for > the > >Imax movie the show in the visitor center? I was admiring them > when > >I saw the movie. > > > I think so, although they may now have a new one. The film I made > costumes > for was made in 1996, and some of the costumes came from the best > costume > house in London (IMHO) Cosprop. However, I made the lady some > underwear, > which she wore throughout, a mix and match purple green and > turquoise set > of clothes (sounds hideous doesn't it?) and a child's sailor suit. > When I > get my video I'll be able to judge - it was made for National > Geographic. > Was the film set in 1873, and involved Hearst as a boy visiting > Europe with > his mother? > > Suzi > Yes, that is definitely the same movie. They show it in the huge IMAX theatre. It was all about WR Hearst and how he got his "taste" for art and architecture, then went on to show how the whole thing was designed & built. I thought the gown was gorgeous. The boy wore the sailor suit quite a lot, as I recall, but also wore a suit with short pants when they portrayed him a few years older. Wow, that is so cool that you made those costumes! :-) San Simeon is really a cool place, I really want to go back. There are at least 4 different tours and we only had time for one. Lots of beautiful antiques and paintings to look at. Hearst bought & installed whole ceilings, etc, from buildings in Europe. I took tons of pictures -- thank goodness for digital cameras! ~Mary "Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick & wicked." ~ Jane Austen "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 15:58:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3KJwcGT011442 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:58:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3KJw2LV009140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 13:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KJvuC6052277; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 13:57:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3KJvlWq052035 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 13:57:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2005 19:57:41 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050420205603.0159b700@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:57:48 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 261 In-Reply-To: <20050420194324.4096.qmail@web40425.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200504201802.j3KI1m2g043818@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >and am expecting a video of film I made costumes for, for > > > > Hearst Castle no less - la-di dah!) > The film I made > > costumes > > for was made in 1996, and some of the costumes came from the best > > costume > > house in London (IMHO) Cosprop. However, I made the lady some > > underwear, > > which she wore throughout, a mix and match purple green and > > turquoise set > > of clothes (sounds hideous doesn't it?) and a child's sailor suit. > > When I > > get my video I'll be able to judge - it was made for National > > Geographic. > > Was the film set in 1873, and involved Hearst as a boy visiting > > Europe with > > his mother? > > > > Suzi > > > >Yes, that is definitely the same movie. They show it in the huge >IMAX theatre. It was all about WR Hearst and how he got his "taste" >for art and architecture, then went on to show how the whole thing >was designed & built. I thought the gown was gorgeous. The boy wore >the sailor suit quite a lot, as I recall, but also wore a suit with >short pants when they portrayed him a few years older. Wow, that is >so cool that you made those costumes! :-) > >San Simeon is really a cool place, I really want to go back. There >are at least 4 different tours and we only had time for one. Lots of >beautiful antiques and paintings to look at. Hearst bought & >installed whole ceilings, etc, from buildings in Europe. I took tons >of pictures -- thank goodness for digital cameras! > >~Mary Wow, fame at last. Well, I never! I am thrilled that it will be seen by so many people - I never did know what happened to it! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 16:07:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3KK73MK011484 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:07:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3KK6KLV010608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:06:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KK6EYX060151; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:06:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KK6Agl059976 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:06:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A62814480080; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:06:00 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.121 ([209.131.81.121] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 20 Apr 05 20:05:59 -0000 Message-ID: <001601c545e4$9f2836c0$795183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8C713F215EA4180-D48-1311@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curry Stains Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:07:45 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you tried 'Aunt Ellen's stain remover'? You can find this at JoAnn's in the notion area, and I am beginning to see it in hardware stores. It comes labeled for white or for colored garments. I have found this to very good on set in stains like tablecloths. Is your shirt 100% cotton? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: [h-cost] Curry Stains > Greetings All! > > I need the collected wisdom of the list. My brand new cotton turtle neck has been stained with curry sauce. As soon as I realized I had gotten the curry sauce on my sweter, I treated it with Shout wipe (but as I was on vacation I was unable to wash it immedately). When we got home on Sunday, we immedately washed the sweater. Then washed it again with a different stain treatment. And again with another one. So it has now been washed three times, with different detergents and such. We have been careful not to dry the sweater. However, the stain is still there. Does anyone have any ideas? > > Thanks, > Kit > If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 19:13:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3KNDBrR012394 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:13:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3KNC8LV009343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KNBkuf036149; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:11:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3KNBhBb036107 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:11:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from angelalazear@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (angelalazear@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp812.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2005 23:11:43 -0000 Message-ID: <004701c545fe$50e853e0$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Angela F Lazear" To: Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:11:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Spanish soldiers in the inquisition X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3KNDBrR012394 Status: RO I am preparing to costume Man of La Mancha this summer, and have done to date, minimal research on the soldiers involved in the show. It takes place during Cervantes incarceration in prison at the end of his life, during a portion of the spanish inquisition. I believe the time frame is roughly 1597-1610. He was imprisoned twice, and the show sort of blends those together. If any of you on the list are SCA and this is within your period of expertise, I could use some advice/info on what soldiers would have worn, weapons that would be appropriate. Much of the show is done as a story that takes place in Cervantes' brain as he becomes the character Don Quixote, who is his fictional knight. The knight's time frame is fictional and so ranges from a loose medieval interpretation to somewhat more literal period clothing from Spain in the same period as Cervantes lived. Thise knight will need a sword, but that can probably be more of a medieval armament in nature. So what would the soldiers carry? Knives? Swords? any info is appreciated. We're going to be doing some combat scenes and the director/choreographer wants an idea of what he should be working with in advance. thanks! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 19:33:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3KNXwmA012521 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:33:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3KNXHLV011302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:33:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KNXDDF052304; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:33:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3KNX7QD052151 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:33:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2005 23:33:01 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050421002927.014d05b0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:33:08 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish soldiers in the inquisition In-Reply-To: <004701c545fe$50e853e0$0701a8c0@lazear1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 16:11 20/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: >I am preparing to costume Man of La Mancha this summer, and have done to >date, minimal research on the soldiers involved in the show. It takes >place during Cervantes incarceration in prison at the end of his life, >during a portion of the spanish inquisition. I believe the time frame is >roughly 1597-1610. He was imprisoned twice, and the show sort of blends >those together. > >If any of you on the list are SCA and this is within your period of >expertise, I could use some advice/info on what soldiers would have worn, >weapons that would be appropriate. Much of the show is done as a story >that takes place in Cervantes' brain as he becomes the character Don >Quixote, who is his fictional knight. The knight's time frame is >fictional and so ranges from a loose medieval interpretation to somewhat >more literal period clothing from Spain in the same period as Cervantes >lived. Thise knight will need a sword, but that can probably be more of a >medieval armament in nature. > >So what would the soldiers carry? Knives? Swords? any info is >appreciated. We're going to be doing some combat scenes and the >director/choreographer wants an idea of what he should be working with in >advance. Any picture links to "The Armada" of 1588 should give you fighting men if that period. Spanish soldiers' uniforms didn't change that frequently. The thing that says "Spanish" to many people is the particular helmet worn at the time of the Armada, the "morion". There was an excellent catalogue put out by the Maritime Museum in Greenwich, England, for a huge "Armada" exhibition they put on in 1988. Hope that helps. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 21:09:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3L19f5E012903 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:09:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3L18pLV024309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:08:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L18fVE022957; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:08:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L18cnl022879 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:08:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D92D3C6AF for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:08:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4266FD61.2000503@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:09:53 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish soldiers in the inquisition References: <004701c545fe$50e853e0$0701a8c0@lazear1> In-Reply-To: <004701c545fe$50e853e0$0701a8c0@lazear1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Angela F Lazear wrote: > > So what would the soldiers carry? Knives? Swords? any info is appreciated. We're going to be doing some combat scenes and the director/choreographer wants an idea of what he should be working with in advance. > > thanks! > Here's one re-enactment group that seems to have figured some of the details out, they have a sketch posted on this page (though the description in the text is of English soldiers): http://www.fairfax.org.uk/MAIN/ARTICLES/RESEARCH/vere/english%20brigade.HTM Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 20 21:53:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3L1rbYL013189 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:53:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3L1qxLV028469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:52:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L1qrHe053387; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:52:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L1qnBs053334 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:52:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-51-041.jps.net ([209.165.51.41]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1DOQs4-0004ne-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:52:48 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <4262865F.9070408@earthlink.net> <018d01c54379$ec9a34c0$6501a8c0@JRB2> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 19:02:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Left weave? was Fabric term? "End on End" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:42 PM +0100 4/18/05, Jean Waddie wrote: >This gives me an opportunity to ask about something that has been >bugging me. Gap over here has been running this advertising saying >that their new jeans are softer because they're woven to the left >instead of to the right. This sounds like total pseudoscience to >me, about as convincing as face cream adverts, but is there anything >in it? If you use the same thread, same weave pattern, will it make >any difference whether your twill goes to the left or to the right? >And if so why? I can imagine that it _might_ make a difference if slanting the twill one way or the other works with or against the spin-direction (or ply-direction) of the thread they're using. A slant that encourages the surface bits of thread to untwist slightly (if there is such a thing) could be softer than a slant that encourages them to remain tightly twisted. But that's just a guess. I'm not sure any weave structure would, in fact, do such a thing. This would, however, be something they could conceivably abbreviate to "woven to the left" for advertising purposes. Any ideas from weavers out there? As for "end on end," I believe (and my somewhat elderly textile dictionary backs this up) that it refers to "an arrangement of warp yarns with one end of color and one end of white alternately." They refer to this as "end AND end" but I've seen it phrased both ways. Chambray is sometimes woven this way and sometimes woven with a colored warp and white weft (which is what I've mostly seen). (Fairchild's Dictionary of Textiles, 6th ed., 1979, bought used for a dollar fifty...) -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 00:11:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3L4BZaS013819 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:11:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3L4AmLV015936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:10:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L4AZ1j053764; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:10:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L4AVm0053711 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:10:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3L4AXl8006638 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:10:33 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.90.255] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-90-255.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.90.255]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3L4AIbP066220 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:10:30 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050420210032.025dd4e0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:01:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curry Stains In-Reply-To: <8C713F215EA4180-D48-1311@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> References: <20050420120627.XWDB11124.lakermmtao04.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I need the collected wisdom of the list. My brand new cotton turtle neck >has been stained with curry sauce. As soon as I realized I had gotten the >curry sauce on my sweter, I treated it with Shout wipe (but as I was on >vacation I was unable to wash it immedately). When we got home on Sunday, >we immedately washed the sweater. Then washed it again with a different >stain treatment. And again with another one. So it has now been washed >three times, with different detergents and such. We have been careful not >to dry the sweater. However, the stain is still there. Does anyone have >any ideas? Dye the whole thing with the same curry? Then no one will ever suspect... Actually that's a serious suggestion. If life has handed you curry for a lemon, make figurative lemonade. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 00:11:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3L4BZDZ013820 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:11:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3L4AmLV015937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:10:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L4AZES053755; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:10:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L4AWQ2053719 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:10:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3L49sD5000687 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:09:55 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.90.255] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-90-255.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.90.255]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3L4AIbR066220 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:10:31 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050420210305.024cbd48@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:07:20 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish soldiers in the inquisition In-Reply-To: <004701c545fe$50e853e0$0701a8c0@lazear1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >If any of you on the list are SCA and this is within your period of >expertise, I could use some advice/info on what soldiers would have worn, >weapons that would be appropriate. You might search on early California history. California was "invented" shortly after the period you mention, and our early European explorers like Cabrillo and Balboa are usually shown (in California history books, anyway) in outfits that would work. Search also for Cortez, conqueror of Mexico. He is earlier, but is usually shown wearing later period stuff. In any case, nothing says late Renaissance Spanish soldier like the morions someone mentioned. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 00:14:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3L4EqBV013830 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:14:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3L4EMLV016695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:14:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L4EMhW056727; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:14:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L4EKdP056664 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:14:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.db.25044327 (18251) for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:14:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:14:10 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish soldiers in the inquisition To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd definitely trust the pics on this page. The guy pictured (whose name I can't remember - sorry) is a member of the Fairfax Battalia of ECWS and The Tudor Group (run by The Goodmans - Tudor experts - and v. helpful), and the sketch is by Tony Barton, also of the Fairfax, and who has possibly *the* best 17th century clothing I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot!) - immaculately cut - which he makes himself - passmenterie buttons and all. (As an aside, Tony also sculpts historically correct wargaming figures, so knows other periods, too.) I don't have e-mail addresses, but am sure the Tudor group have a website, so you could ask Mark if he has any sources / links (showed me some fabulous shots of a doublet they'd just been restoring recently). Debbie. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 00:23:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3L4NeCs013863 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:23:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3L4N5LV018419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:23:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L4N18h062936; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:23:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.23.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L4MfSG062678 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:22:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Bchamber@suffolk.lib.ny.us) Received: from bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 8E47AA5402E for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D1CCZP51 (sclsnet-pri-142-ppp.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.108.142]) by bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CE96A5402E for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:21:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Beth Chamberlain" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Curry Stains Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:22:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <8C713F215EA4180-D48-1311@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> Thread-Index: AcVF4MuOqK4pnfGFTym+4MH1vZXraAASDvBA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20050421042100.6CE96A5402E@bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us> X-VBSHLD-SCLID: A146227BF8F X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, RCVD_IN_NJABL_DUL,RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL autolearn=failed version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kit Try Oxyclean, in a really high concentration. If that doesn't take it all out dab it with bleach if the color can take it. Make sure you have ALL of the oxyclean out before you get bleach near it. I cook with turmeric (the yellow in curry) constantly and I'm not the neatest cook, this has worked on everything I've tried so far. Beth -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of kitsune242@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:59 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Curry Stains Greetings All! I need the collected wisdom of the list. My brand new cotton turtle neck has been stained with curry sauce. As soon as I realized I had gotten the curry sauce on my sweter, I treated it with Shout wipe (but as I was on vacation I was unable to wash it immedately). When we got home on Sunday, we immedately washed the sweater. Then washed it again with a different stain treatment. And again with another one. So it has now been washed three times, with different detergents and such. We have been careful not to dry the sweater. However, the stain is still there. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks, Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 04:03:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3L83nf6015074 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 04:03:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3L835LV015930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 02:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L82n01007466; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 02:02:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3L82k08007367 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 02:02:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 63994 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Apr 2005 08:02:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20050421080240.63992.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:02:40 BST Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:02:40 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: French costume films X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello - well it depends on what period you're after. Medieval: The Hour of the Pig (very very weird trial of a pig in medieval france!) (oh, and in the US it's called 'The Advocate'.) Le Violon Rouge (a day in the life of a violin over 3 centuries - v.v.v. sad and in many languages) The Return of Martin Guerre Les Enfants du Paradis (wartime epic set in 18C - costumes still capture the essence of that neoclassical era). I hope you have fun - these are some of my favourite films and you can't beat a French weepie, you just can't... Happy Viewing, Susan K. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 04:10:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3L8AQ62016790 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 04:10:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3L89uLV017302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 02:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L89rP5011587; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 02:09:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L89nF2011540 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 02:09:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j3L89md01735.; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:09:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:09:48 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:09:26 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish soldiers in the inquisition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3L89nF2011540 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not SCA but have been involved in English Civil War reenactment (a slightly later period) for many years. I, too, thought of morions straight away. The soldiers would certainly have swords (simple, fairly short ones), and if they're prison guards would most likely be musketeers. Muskets at that date would be matchlocks (i.e.fired by means of a smouldering fuse) and quite heavy and cumbersome. In battle there would be pikemen as well (before the invention of bayonets, they used 15-18 ft pole-arms to defend the musketeers against cavalry.) Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 08:06:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LC6uTx016431 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:06:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LC5pLV018504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 06:05:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LC5ItC061507; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 06:05:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LC5FSE061381 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 06:05:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A6F4C89005E; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:05:08 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.123 ([209.131.81.123] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 21 Apr 05 12:05:06 -0000 Message-ID: <002501c5466a$9b037560$7b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050421002927.014d05b0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish soldiers in the inquisition Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:06:51 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a plastic morion available from a couple of theater supply houses. I have used these with some success for productions. I modified the inside rim with poly rope glued on and then sprayed with silver paint. This improves the dimension. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish soldiers in the inquisition > At 16:11 20/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: > >I am preparing to costume Man of La Mancha this summer, and have done to > >date, minimal research on the soldiers involved in the show. It takes > >place during Cervantes incarceration in prison at the end of his life, > >during a portion of the spanish inquisition. I believe the time frame is > >roughly 1597-1610. He was imprisoned twice, and the show sort of blends > >those together. > > > >If any of you on the list are SCA and this is within your period of > >expertise, I could use some advice/info on what soldiers would have worn, > >weapons that would be appropriate. Much of the show is done as a story > >that takes place in Cervantes' brain as he becomes the character Don > >Quixote, who is his fictional knight. The knight's time frame is > >fictional and so ranges from a loose medieval interpretation to somewhat > >more literal period clothing from Spain in the same period as Cervantes > >lived. Thise knight will need a sword, but that can probably be more of a > >medieval armament in nature. > > > >So what would the soldiers carry? Knives? Swords? any info is > >appreciated. We're going to be doing some combat scenes and the > >director/choreographer wants an idea of what he should be working with in > >advance. > > > Any picture links to "The Armada" of 1588 should give you fighting men if > that period. Spanish soldiers' uniforms didn't change that frequently. The > thing that says "Spanish" to many people is the particular helmet worn at > the time of the Armada, the "morion". There was an excellent catalogue put > out by the Maritime Museum in Greenwich, England, for a huge "Armada" > exhibition they put on in 1988. > > Hope that helps. > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 09:03:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LD3MrX016819 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:03:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LD2iLV023357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LD2cXA002969; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:02:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f12.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LD2aW6002860 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:02:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 06:02:30 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.201 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:02:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.201] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "C M" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:02:30 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Apr 2005 13:02:30.0750 (UTC) FILETIME=[6066E7E0:01C54672] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Opinions on a portrait (1485-90 Flanders)? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am still missing Digest 260, so if what I am about to write now was already said, apologies.... Since this is going a bit towards my own current line of thought and projects, I am offering the same here. I reckon the lattice work, though kinky, is actually one garment and meant to be this way. There is a portrait of a Don Mendoza by Ingles which shows strips of a different colour on a doublet (I don't want to go into the "leather or not leather" discussion). It's conjectural that the "strips" take on a life of their own later and omit the doublet underneath. In your portrait it looks like the dark brown band (looks velvety to me....?) around the wrists and the small collar visible above his right shoulder and left side of the neck are attached to the latticework, actually making it a garment. The lines follow a doublet cut (to my eyes), however with the actual doublet fabric omitted. The tying of the strips across the front would also indicate a function of the entire thing rather than only embellishment. The shirt looks to me like it has a thin cord of some sorts securing the gathering of the shirt. It doesn't look like the gathering is very pronouced, though, I can achieve the same look with a shirt that's slightly wider than necessary, but it helps to keep the neckline in. I can't really see a second dark black line on the very edge of the shirt (to me it looks rather more like a shadow/edge view), but that's exactly what I have been looking at for the past weeks as well, meaning I just can't work out how they achieved this particular feature as well. It's not too hard to get a very fine rolled hem on shirtweight linen, but the edge doesn't really look like it has one. It also doesn't seem to be a turned down hem, I wouldn't expect a double layer of fabric to have those neat little folds..... What I could think of is that it is a selvedge and doesn't need any securing. The cuffs on the other hand, could have a thin hem, but it's hard to make out that particular detail. They, too are a bit wider, noticing the overlap on the left arm. Just some more thoughts..... Caithlinn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 09:09:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LD951c016841 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:09:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LD8QLV023774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:08:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LD8KdW007158; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:08:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LD8HRl007094 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:08:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06788 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:24:02 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:24:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French costume films In-Reply-To: <20050421080240.63992.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, katherine sanders wrote: > Medieval: > > Le Violon Rouge (a day in the life of a violin over 3 > centuries - v.v.v. sad and in many languages) One of my favorite movies, but neither French nor medieval. The segments take place in Renaissance Italy, Baroque Austria, Pre-Raphaelite England, revolutionary China, and modern Montreal. Still not to be missed, though the music and filmcraft both trump the costumes. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 10:58:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LEwvjU017791 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:58:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LEwMLV004511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:58:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LEwE6m095320; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:58:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LEw8pq095180 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:58:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.6b.43b05656 (16781) for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:57:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: <6b.43b05656.2f991974@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:57:56 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish soldiers in the inquisition To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5037 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/20/2005 10:14:29 PM Mountain Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes: You might search on early California history. California was "invented" shortly after the period you mention, and our early European explorers like Cabrillo and Balboa are usually shown (in California history books, anyway) in outfits that would work Or check in with the Governor's Palace Museum here in Santa Fe, New Mexico. They have several sets of armour dating from this period. The palace was built in the very early 1600's. We predate Plymouth Rock in terms of European arrival. Google "Museum of New Mexico" and click on the Palace of the Governor's link. Cheryl _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 14:31:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LIV2bl019841 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:31:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LITmLV002330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:29:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LITSFl099197; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:29:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3LITQ0Q099144 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:29:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO AngelaFLazear) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@63.202.198.62 with login) by smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2005 18:25:52 -0000 Message-ID: <00b501c5469f$8ae931d0$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "Angela Lazear-CRC" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6b.43b05656.2f991974@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish soldiers in the inquisition-THANKS Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 11:25:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can I just say a huge thank you to all of you who took time to respond to my questions on Spanish Soldiers. I received great info on weaponry, which was my biggest ? and can provide the director with some early information for his fight choreography as a result. As a funny aside, many of you wrote suggesting I use Morians as head gear for the soldiers. Ironically enough, I have a huge box of them, having just done Pippin last year. Apparently that is the headgear of choice for the soldiers for that show, among others (I purchased a lot of the costumes from a local theater, along with designing and making a set of my own) and so I have about 15 of them in various shapes & sizes, so all set there. Again, thank you all so much. If anyone has more suggestions, I'm open, as I am not done with the show, but I wanted to say thank you. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." All's Well That Ends Well 1.1.65-6, Countess to Bertram W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish soldiers in the inquisition > In a message dated 4/20/2005 10:14:29 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > kayta@frys.com writes: > You might search on early California history. California was "invented" > shortly after the period you mention, and our early European explorers > like > Cabrillo and Balboa are usually shown (in California history books, > anyway) > in outfits that would work > Or check in with the Governor's Palace Museum here in Santa Fe, New > Mexico. > They have several sets of armour dating from this period. The palace was > built in the very early 1600's. We predate Plymouth Rock in terms of > European > arrival. Google "Museum of New Mexico" and click on the Palace of the > Governor's > link. Cheryl > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 14:39:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LIdECX019894 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:39:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LIciLV003482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:38:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LIcdiS008413; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:38:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.181]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3LIca8X008281 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:38:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 86294 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Apr 2005 18:38:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20050421183830.86292.qmail@web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:38:30 BST Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:38:30 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504211803.j3LI0bDp072338@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: French costume movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> Le Violon Rouge (a day in the life of a violin over 3 >> centuries - v.v.v. sad and in many languages) Robin a dit: >One of my favorite movies, but neither French nor >medieval. The segments take place in Renaissance >Italy, Baroque Austria, Pre-Raphaelite England, >revolutionary China, and modern Montreal. I know, I know - that's what i get for just being too excited about costume movies... :-) It is still v. moving - I watched all these films before I really got into costuming seriously, and haven't had time to watch them since (so much to sew, so little time). I seem to also recall a film called "La Reine Margot" - dead huguenots covered in blood?? - NO idea about the costumes but it's worth looking up on Rotten Tomatoes for info before you rent it. One of my favourite cheesy films, good costume wise, is "Bram Stoker's Dracula" - big red satin gowns, walking suit remiscent of elizabethan ladies doublet, Gary Oldman with long hair.... :-P time to get the DVD out again (and mute Keanu's english accent). Susan Katherine Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 15:24:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LJOpqA020235 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:24:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LJO1LV009403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJNnW8052452; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:23:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail6.mdx.safepages.com (mail6.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.49]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3GHCPpD086724 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:12:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail6.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 55BDE179FDC; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:12:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust152.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.152]) by mail6.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 31641179F9C for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:12:09 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <07ab01c542a7$96362670$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <02b401c54249$ce9feb80$ce634ed5@Mudfeet> Subject: Re: [h-cost] vikings + bliaut thinking... Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:12:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is an interesting line of thought, and reminds me of something I saw while doing some (not particularly thorough) research on the cut of Viking clothing. The main thing that stuck in my mind, from that research, was a study of several extant garments with _shaped_ body seams. In some, these shaped seams were at the sides, and in others they were at the side-front and side-back, with either a straight or a false seam at the side. >From my (admittedly narrow) knowledge of the other clothing of this era, this was unusual. What if the Vikings brought the idea of the shaped seam--which is a feature of most conjectural bliaut patterns--to France? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 15:29:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LJT9ZT020268 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:29:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LJSkLV009873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:28:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJShK1057080; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:28:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3LJSbW1056971 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:28:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2005 19:28:35 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050421202604.014d0458@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:28:44 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French costume movies In-Reply-To: <20050421183830.86292.qmail@web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <200504211803.j3LI0bDp072338@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 19:38 21/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: > >> Le Violon Rouge (a day in the life of a violin >over 3 > >> centuries - v.v.v. sad and in many languages) >Robin a dit: > >One of my favorite movies, but neither French nor > >medieval. The segments take place in Renaissance > >Italy, Baroque Austria, Pre-Raphaelite England, > >revolutionary China, and modern Montreal. > >I know, I know - that's what i get for just being too >excited about costume movies... :-) It is still v. >moving - I watched all these films before I really got >into costuming seriously, and haven't had time to >watch them since (so much to sew, so little time). > >I seem to also recall a film called "La Reine Margot" >- dead huguenots covered in blood?? - NO idea about >the costumes but it's worth looking up on Rotten >Tomatoes for info before you rent it. "La Reine Margot" - beautiful costumes, not authentic French of the period, but beautiful, lots of blood as you say, beautiful people. Great fun, but not one for purists!! >One of my favourite cheesy films, good costume wise, >is "Bram Stoker's Dracula" - big red satin gowns, >walking suit remiscent of elizabethan ladies doublet, >Gary Oldman with long hair.... :-P time to get the >DVD out again (and mute Keanu's english accent). Gerard Depardieu in "Cyrano de Bergerac" - bravura performance - made me cry, and my French is not brilliant!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 15:33:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LJXFKW020290 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:33:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LJWSLV010366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:32:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJWKN3060675; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:32:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.169]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3GJl9IP094671 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:47:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 52865 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2005 19:47:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=SqabGuBWaPV+z4MPKy6waaPsAvv/BzQHCF9IpSIyM7p73dra1IPpRdviG3LVZg8s7ZvUVd7dbXCGNOYbwVeVdD3B3HmDhZG3EW5Wic7FfknPnw32i4IPNjZheP5sTiZ0I1x1ygTZWtNTKJDHAiW13h9IuQTEvibApMbRuCSK9HM= ; Message-ID: <20050416194704.52863.qmail@web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.21.56.55] by web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:47:04 PDT Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:47:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen in the US for under $10 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Don't forget www.fabrics-store.com They have 3oz linen for 6-8 dollars a yard and here's a discount code for 5% off: 888linen54. You can use this code over and over. I buy all my linen from them Chris G. Suzi Clarke wrote: At 11:22 16/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: >>Fair enough. I didn't realize that they charge customs duty because the >>U.S. doesn't. That's a real bummer! >> >>I am glad that you have several sources for a good price. It seems like >>other fabrics tend to be expensive there. However a friend of mine found >>handkercheif linen in England for $5 US per metre! Here, if you can find >>it *at all* you usually pay $15 or more per yard. >> >>Diana >Denver fabrics has handkerchief linen for just under $8. I have bought >their linen, and love it. I made a camica out of it and could live in the >thing. It's so light and airy, that even here in Texas it's cool. > >http://www.denverfabrics.com/pages/static/linen/white-linen.htm > >I've bought the heavier stuff, too. After the first three washes, it's >just as soft as you'd ever want it. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? 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Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 15:39:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LJdJ82020320 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:39:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LJcJLV011176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJcDSe066116; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:38:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJc9bo066029 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:38:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) Received: from [68.167.255.232] (helo=boris) by smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DOhV1-0005m1-BU for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:38:07 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=Zjj3SAI51jMat0FQS1ywvKcTCQiKnbAqw/2WjutvKE4RqP3J1lg5kXDy3/7SWqbn; Message-ID: <005201c546a9$cfcf3dd0$0300a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200504211803.j3LI0bDp072338@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050421202604.014d0458@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French costume movies Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:39:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48c796957b479e6257ca003721e02cb7fd3396037c9e1b016b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.167.255.232 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Gerard Depardieu in "Cyrano de Bergerac" - bravura performance - made me > cry, and my French is not brilliant!! > > Suzi The costuming was pretty good in that one, too. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 15:52:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LJq2o5020404 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:52:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LJorLV012594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJonfk078289; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:50:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts8.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H327na092145 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:02:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([70.50.172.218]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050417030201.JNDX1623.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:02:01 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c542fa$7b235ee0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <72C64B20-AEE2-11D9-B23E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:06:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Greetings all, > > I am looking to put together a list of movies for my students from the > 60-80s that shows contemporary fashions. Does anyone have any > suggestions for movies that clearly show contemporary dress? I'm also > looking for movies that idealized contemporary fashion/ interiors. > > Thanks!! > > Althea Turner Hmm, Flashdance and The Breakfast Club and Pretty in Pink pop into mind for the 80's, or at least that was the clothing we were all trying to emulate... War Games also comes to mind for 'average joe' youth fashion. How about Close Encounters for early 80's? I second the motion for Easy Rider and all of the James Bond flix. For any range of over the top 80's and 90's fashions, you can get on DVD the TV series Dallas, Falcons Crest, Beverly Hills 90210, or any other evening soap. Just my two bits Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 15:52:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LJqfbv020411 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:52:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LJptLV012695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:51:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJprWk079200; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:51:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3H4PCAO047526 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:25:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from webmail35.nyc.untd.com (webmail35.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.175]) by smtpout05.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBGD3JYAVL3A4A for (sender ); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:24:54 -0700 (PST) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn75hDTtUCMd1OCwFNxlnMCJFMwVZCl/hmwg== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail35.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KQRVFVCH; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:24:13 PDT Received: from [24.14.76.2] by webmail35.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 04:23:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.76.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" X-UOL-SENDER: penhalion@juno.com Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 04:23:29 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050416.212413.364.403279@webmail35.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:1:2966599822 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Let's not forget 'Annie Hall' which launched the Annie Hall look courtesy of Diane Keaton. For '80's looks, you should check out the John Hughes teen movies (16 Candles, etc) and Miami Vice(TV) also captured/created an very influential look for the era. If we are looking at TV for sources, 'Dynasty' is certainly an all time champ for bringing power-suits with killer shoulder pads back into fashion with a vengance. Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 15:53:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LJr3iF020415 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:53:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LJqMLV012766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:52:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJqLm9079606; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:52:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H4mWNJ062773 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:48:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20nh.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.241] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DN1hw-0006e0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:48:32 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050416234340.02849d60@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:49:41 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200504161550.j3GFoLm8029726@net.indra.com> References: <200504161550.j3GFoLm8029726@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Printing, etc. on fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another idea you might try, then -- hobby stores that sell model supplies (like for model cars, etc.) have a kit for making the water slip decals on your printer. It has the decal paper, and a can of spray for setting the ink so it doesn't run when you put the decal in water. I would guess that the spray is available separately. I don't know how it would react to fabric (haven't tried it) but it did work on the decals (I needed to make plastic masks with specific images on them - the decals worked wonderfully!!) I don't remember the full name of the product, but the word ended in -cal. HTH, Sandy At 10:50 AM 4/16/2005, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:48:20 -0700 >From: Rose Amberwulf >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Printing on Fabric > >I'm going to be using some fabric that has been treated with Bubble >Jet. It's a great product. What I am curious about is if I can use >watercolor pencils to do any of my colorizing; is how to use those type >of pencils and be able to protect the colors afterwards from water. > >Roscelin "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 15:56:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LJubdU020440 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:56:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LJteLV013194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJtVm9082331; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:55:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav4.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3H4uUXB069567 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:56:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:56:25 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.204 by BAY106-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 04:56:24 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.204] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <72C64B20-AEE2-11D9-B23E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 00:56:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 00:56:27 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2005 04:56:25.0072 (UTC) FILETIME=[CEA69F00:01C54309] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3LJubdU020440 Status: RO Miami Vice! I assume at least some of the series is on DVD - everything else is. Besides the clothes, the show made a big deal of showing architecture and interiors of that time and place. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 15:57:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LJvbV7020443 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:57:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LJugLV013316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:56:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJuc0O083391; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:56:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HB3NS6012569 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 05:03:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.45.26528dab (25305) for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 07:03:11 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <45.26528dab.2f939c6d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 07:03:09 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/16/2005 9:45:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, althea@alfalfapress.com writes: I am looking to put together a list of movies for my students from the 60-80s that shows contemporary fashions Late '60s--"The Graduate" "Shampoo" This was made in 1975, but is set in 1968. But I don't remember if the clothes are true to 1968 or more 1975. That might be a good exercise for your students. Of course, many "historical" films made during the period (or our period, for that matter) tend to let contemporary elements creep in, especially makeup and hairstyles. Again, this could be a fun exercise for students. The book, "Hollywood and History," (Thames and Hudson, 1987), accompanying the exhibit mounted by the LA County Museum of Art, has a chronology in the back, by era the films are set, with critique of each. This book gives "American Graffiti" and "Shampoo" for the '60s. and "Sid and Nancy" for the 1970s. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 15:57:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LJvlum020446 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:57:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LJvLLV013400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:57:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJvKY0084134; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:57:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3HFPYBk083624 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 09:25:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBGE99HAVZWVY2 for (sender ); Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:25:27 -0700 (PST) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhguohi+i9g1OfYe1YPANE2kM= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KQS282QA; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:24:35 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:24:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Printing on Fabric Message-ID: <20050417.082343.2504.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5,7-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 5:2:3367224467 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You might try Faber-Castell ARts & Graphic Polychromos pencils. Arts Media carries them. They're waterproof and the colors are wonderful. They won't smudge or fade. Arlys On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:48:20 -0700 Rose Amberwulf writes: > I'm going to be using some fabric that has been treated with Bubble > Jet. It's a great product. What I am curious about is if I can use > > watercolor pencils to do any of my colorizing; is how to use those > type > of pencils and be able to protect the colors afterwards from water. > > Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 15:59:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LJxmxA020461 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:59:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LJx6LV013679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:59:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJx50C085884; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:59:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.253]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HIUfJO013972 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:30:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from perronnelle@earthlink.net) Received: from user-12hc6s3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.131] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DNEXW-0004fr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:30:38 -0700 Message-ID: <4262AB63.5070200@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:30:59 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric term? "End on End" References: <4262865F.9070408@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4262865F.9070408@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wicked Frau wrote: > This fabric is described as being "end on end" I have never heard this > term before. Does anyone know what it means? It kinda looks like a > denim weave. But the fabric is very light weight. Nice if you like > these colors and weave type. > > http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.cfm?ItmID=846 > > Sg Google is your friend: From http://style.polo.com/glossary/default.asp?letter=E : End-on-end A plain-woven, typically cotton shirting fabric. End-on-end typically describes a shirting fabric in which a colored yarn is woven in one direction and a white yarn is woven in the other to produce a chambray effect. However, a colored yarn could be woven in one direction to form stripes or in two directions to form checks. --Charlene -- Macho: The strutting-and-crowing behavior of men who apparently use roosters as role models without ever wondering why there are so few of them in relation to hens. -- Bayan, Rick; The Cynic's Dictionary, 2002 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:00:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LJxxNC020468 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:59:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LJxSLV013726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:59:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LJxSmC086300; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:59:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav14.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.86]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3HLeubV045591 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:40:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:40:51 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.201 by BAY106-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:40:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.201] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Handkerchief weight cotton Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:40:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2005 21:40:51.0083 (UTC) FILETIME=[1FFE1DB0:01C54396] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Are there any tips for sewing on handkerchief weight cotton? I'm using my > machine and sewing by hand to make a new shift. I keep getting pulled > getting pulled threads. The best thing is to use a new, fine needle (the finer the fabric, the finer the needle), and IIRC it's the pointy type they recommend for woven stuff, and ballpoint for knit? In any case, the very first thing to do is to get a new needle. If you're still having trouble, sometimes sewing with tear-away interfacing or tissue paper if you don't have any interfacing will help, because it keeps the fabric in place a little better. Good luck! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:05:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LK5XhU020512 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:05:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LK4nLV014311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:04:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LK4ja2091573; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:04:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3I5GvYI052602 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 23:17:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2005 05:16:51 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050418061535.014ce988@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 06:16:49 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] handkerchief linen ( Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? ) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 19:09 17/04/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Suzi, > >I am coming over in about 9 days and would lug some over for you. Will >be in London May 4th, but will be in Edinburgh from April 27th ... > >or if this is too soon or too late, can keep you posted on other trips >to the UK. I try to go and see my friends once a year or so. Oh, yes please - that would be wonderful. I am contacting you off list. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:13:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKDner020561 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:13:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKDJLV015617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKDG3n000436; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3IIsn5v075818 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:54:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-6688); Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:53:42 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:53:41 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050418115020.00dab760@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:54:44 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Left weave? was Fabric term? "End on End" In-Reply-To: References: <018d01c54379$ec9a34c0$6501a8c0@JRB2> <4262865F.9070408@earthlink.net> <018d01c54379$ec9a34c0$6501a8c0@JRB2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've never heard of any such thing. Whether the twill diagonal moves up to the left or to the right would make no difference in how "soft" the fabric is. The density of weave (ends per inch) would make a difference, but not the "direction" of the weave. Joan At 07:42 PM 4/18/2005 +0100, you wrote: >This gives me an opportunity to ask about something that has been bugging >me. Gap over here has been running this advertising saying that their new >jeans are softer because they're woven to the left instead of to the >right. This sounds like total pseudoscience to me, about as convincing as >face cream adverts, but is there anything in it? If you use the same >thread, same weave pattern, will it make any difference whether your twill >goes to the left or to the right? And if so why? > >Jean > > >Kim Baird wrote >>In textile terminology, "end" is the same as "warp"--they both refer to the >>yarns that form the lengthwise grain of the fabric. >> >>I can't seem to find the term "end on end" used in my textbooks, but it >>looks like it's similar to Oxford cloth, which is woven with colored warp >>threads and white weft threads. Perhaps end on end has some colored and some >>white warp threads, along with the white weft? Or with a colored weft? >> >>In any case, it does refer to a fabric woven of two different color yarns. >>You are right in seeing a resemblance to denim, which has blue warp threads >>and white weft. But denim is a twill weave, and the fabric you see at the >>URL below is not, it's a plain weave. It's likely to be lighter weight than >>denim, a good weight for shirts or boxer shorts. >> >>Kim >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On >>Behalf Of Wicked Frau >>Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:53 AM >>To: h-costume@indra.com >>Subject: [h-cost] Fabric term? "End on End" >> >> >>This fabric is described as being "end on end" I have never heard this >>term before. Does anyone know what it means? It kinda looks like a >>denim weave. But the fabric is very light weight. Nice if you like >>these colors and weave type. >> >>http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.cfm?ItmID=846 >> >>Sg >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >-- >Jean Waddie >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:17:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKHYe6020595 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:17:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKHELV016192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:17:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKHC5H004479; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:17:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3JCdEVa000597 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:39:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2005 12:39:03 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050419132958.014d0078@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 13:32:40 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) In-Reply-To: <020d01c544d3$7adfc240$03e6a6cb@ewalpole> References: <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050412141603.024f0fa0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 21:32 19/04/2005 +1000, you wrote: > > > We know the pattern for the shirts we have surviving examples of. Take > > that pattern, and instead of adding the sleeves right at the top of the > > body pieces, add them maybe 6" down the side seams from the top. Then sew > > up the side seams above them, making a large tube of the body pieces, open > > at the top. Now gather the open top of the body pieces into a hole the > > size of the neck. That's it. > > > > This causes the grain of the body pieces to run in concentric circles > > around the neck seam, taking any embroidery along with it, as seen in the > > "girl from 1569" portrait I cited. This hauls the tops of the sleeves > > right into a wide neckline, as seen in the Henry VIII portrait I > > cited. This makes lots of gathering right at the bottom of the neck > > band. And it does all this simply, without any extra calculation, pattern > > pieces, or fussing. > > > >Although this sounds really good and it seems like a really logical way of >constructing a partlet the portrait of Helena Snakeborg >http://www.tudor-portraits.com/HelenaSnakeborg.jpg you can see that the >flowers all face the same way around her neck the stems really make it >obvious, they are not radiating out from the neckline as they would if the >grain was running around the neck instead of across the shoulders. However, >Queen Elizabeth's Pelican portrait >http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth22.jpg does have gold bands >radiating out from the neckline, and they appear to be connected to the >fabric rather than just some form of Jewelery laid on top, so perhaps this >does show your theoretical cut, I'll keep looking for other examples >(hopefully somebody else can find something because I really like your >theory), but so far Helena Snakeborg's portrait doesn't support your theory >and the Pelican Portrait quite possibly does, the other portraits I've seen >don't seem to be conclusive as to whether the grain goes over the shoulder >or around the neck. There is a suggestion in Jean Hunnisett's book "Period Costume for Stage and Screen 1500-1800" on how to make the Helena Snakeborg partlet. (The painting was called Portrait of a Young Girl/Lady when Jean did the research.) It has a separate collar. I have made this up and it does work extremely well as patterned. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:17:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKHkUD020599 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:17:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKH1LV016168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKGxSs004257; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:17:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JBqp8d067922 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 05:52:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j3JBqnni029806 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 07:52:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050419073408.0197ac30@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 07:52:49 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Opinions on a portrait (1485-90 Flanders)? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL... I was looking at this last night. Your summation is right on the money. There are three garments on the torso of the young man. One is the shirt - the second is that incredible funky lattice work piece, (I only wish we could see all of it) and the third is a furred overgown (again, wish I could tell the length - from other examples I would surmise it is below the knee) >It appears that the latticework forms a sleeve, and the dark garment has >slit sleeves hanging over that. That would suggest that the band >arrangement in front belongs not to the dark garment, but to a separate >cote/jupon/pourpoint/whatever whose body is completely hidden except for >the bands visible at the front. The black overgarment has a turned-down >fur collar, which you can see the edge of if you look at his right >shoulder (our left). > >Thus, three garments: shirt, band-edged cote with latticed sleeves, black >fur-trimmed (fur-lined?) overcote with slit sleeves. > >So, what does that hidden cote look like on the body? Surely it's not >latticework all over. How ... kinky? No, how awkward! I am thinking >instead that the horizontal bands attach to the open front edges of the >cote, and there are just a couple of vertical bands spaced alongside the >cote edge on each side to create the visible latticework. The odd thing at >the side of the neck (our left, sitter's right) could be a small stand-up >collar from the body of the cote; it appears to be the same dark brown as >the cuffs that hold the latticed sleeves, so perhaps reflects the main >body fabric of the hidden cote. What I will add is this - there are two ways to make that lattice piece. As you call it cote. One is as all lattice work - but that option I think is disproven by the presence of that short stand up collar. This is naturally - and usually - an extension of the back panel of the cote. Although this collar isn't acting like those... oooh, perhaps you are looking at an applied collar at the top edge. And that overgown covers everything that would help resolve the question. I think you are up to your own devices. I - personally would try both methods - but hey I like experimenting with how cut and construction influence presentation. >Does this make sense? Alternate readings are welcome. > >Also, on that shirt: It looks as though the bulk is gathered into fine >pleating, stabilized between two lines of black stitching to form the >upper edge. Any ideas on the stitching technique that would create a >smooth upper edge? It's not wavy as you'd expect if you edge the fabric >first and then gathered it up; it looks as though the black line is >actually holding the pleating in place. Maybe just overcast to both finish >the edge and secure the pleats at the same time? Maybe the linen is >folded over so you don't have to deal with a raw edge up there, just >the pleating, and the raw edge could be turned under about a half-inch >lower and caught in a second line of stitching to hold the gathers? It could be either method you mention... or if you gather the pleats - then edge them with a narrow fingerloop braid or lace and over cast both.... but that's what you meant above isn't it? I tend to think this influenced by the Spanish political and cultural forces in the area at the time. Sorry - not much help on this - except to say - I think you've thought it out and come to the same ideas I have. Mari / Bridgette Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:18:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKI6O3020602 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:18:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKHhLV016250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:17:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKHh82005025; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:17:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jaguar.mail.utk.edu (jaguar.mail.utk.edu [160.36.0.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JEPfSo086873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:25:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@utk.edu) Received: from webmail.utk.edu (camel.usg.utk.edu [160.36.178.34]) by jaguar.mail.utk.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j3JEPeEl016191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT); Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:25:40 -0400 X-WebMail-UserID: sfarmer Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:25:37 -0400 From: Susan Farmer To: garb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002252 Message-ID: <42655250@webmail.utk.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Infinite Mobile Delivery (Hydra) SMTP v3.62.01 X-Spam-Status: Message sent from local relay (camel.usg.utk.edu) with local sender (). X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.45 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] sewing question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, I've got a question for all you sewing champs out there. I'm looking through the lastest copy of Threads, and there's this article on bias collars or some such. Anyway, on the last page of that article is a photo and the caption says something about an "inseam button-hole like on this sheer fabric." What's an inseam button hole? thanks, Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of Tennessee http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:18:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKIbWP020607 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:18:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKHqLV016290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:17:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKHpKx005168; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:17:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JERR5s088419 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:27:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from generys@blazemail.com) Received: from pmta01.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC78F3FD7C for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 07:27:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQBKBEVCZRVOJqe1yQIAAAAB,4ee765377c074e35f95ca2114e09e7a1 Received: from marketing3 (69.38.51.209 [69.38.51.209]) by pmta01.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY) with ESMTP id 842F00A1 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 07:27:26 -0700 From: "Jennifer / Guenievre" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Scaled Tudor(and other)headdress patterns in book Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:26:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-index: AcVE4psqGuJb2TygQK6Yce6ZA94/WwAB44uwAABmdPA= Message-Id: <20050419142726.CC78F3FD7C@omta16.mta.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3JERR5s088419 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It sounds like "From the Neck Up", which does have some scaled patterns - I don't have my copy handy, so I don't know if it has those... Guenièvre > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Abel, Cynthia > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:22 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Scaled Tudor(and other)headdress patterns in book > > > > I'm looking for a book, I believe it was perhaps for costume designers > for the stage, but I'm not sure. My public library used to have it, but > it was either discarded or "liberated" some time ago. I recall it had > scaled patterns on a grid, much like Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion > books, and was partially or completely dedicated to historic men's and > women's headgear. I clearly remember that it contained patterns for > English and French hoods and some 17th and 18th century headgear and > mobcaps. > > If anyone can id this book, I'd be most grateful and hopefully can get a > copy via Interlibrary Loan, or ideally used for cheap. > > Many thanks. > > Cindy Abel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:23:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKNOvn020634 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:23:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKN2LV016888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKMu1S010059; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:22:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3LKMrJj009995 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:22:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-3550); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:21:43 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:21:43 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050421132116.00dae990@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:22:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing question In-Reply-To: <42655250@webmail.utk.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It would be a buttonhole in the seam, where you leave a short length of seam unsewn. It means you don't need to cut a slit for the buttonhole. Joan At 10:25 AM 4/19/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Ok, I've got a question for all you sewing champs out there. I'm looking >through >the lastest copy of Threads, and there's this article on bias collars or some >such. Anyway, on the last page of that article is a photo and the caption >says >something about an "inseam button-hole like on this sheer fabric." > >What's an inseam button hole? > >thanks, >Susan > >----- >Susan Farmer >sfarmer@goldsword.com >Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology >University of Tennessee >http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:25:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKPJcS020646 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:25:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKOlLV017069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:24:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKOetn011701; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:24:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3JGdiAG013659 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:39:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2005 16:39:39 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050419173646.015e1458@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:39:42 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? Contact and use info please In-Reply-To: <1103.24.4.69.40.1113927609.squirrel@www.inreach.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:20 19/04/2005 -0700, you wrote: > > > > Now that is a different problem. Could you be really, really kind, and see > > if your friend can remember where she got her handkerchief linen from? It > > sometimes turns up at Re-enactor markets, if you're lucky, > >Suzi, > >I guess that is where she got it--at the Coventry Reenactors Market in >November. Here is the info she sent me: > >The company is: > >Fabric of Time, Suppliers of Fine Irish Linen. > >Laurie & Elaine >01522 595597 >laurence@fabricoftime.freeserve.co.uk > >All my friend had was an e-mail address and the name but it is a start. I >hope that you can connect with them. I think my friend said she paid $5 >pounds per metre or something like that. Thank you Diana - I had heard a vague rumour about these people but when I asked for a sample, they hadn't got any in stock. I asked for them to send it when they had it, and never heard more. I will try again - thanks. I believe they live/work in Lincoln. I'll try the mail, as the Re-enactors Market is a long way, (English distances) and I don't drive. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:25:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKPljO020654 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:25:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKPFLV017122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:25:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKPEdO012307; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:25:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3JGlgtu021973 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:47:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 30318 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2005 17:04:51 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:04:51 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1627.24.4.69.40.1113929260.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <1103.24.4.69.40.1113927609.squirrel@www.inreach.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <20050416083639.87438.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416093754.014cd400@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416163224.014cd710@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050416164415.014cd8e8@127.0.0.1> <1103.24.4.69.40.1113927609.squirrel@www.inreach.com> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn/Lawm?? Contact and use info please From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Suzi, > > I guess that is where she got it--at the Coventry Reenactors Market in > November. Here is the info she sent me: Sorry everyone! That was supposed to be private... Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:26:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKQPDc020659 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:26:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKQ3LV017227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKQ2sA013086; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:26:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKPxT7013040 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:25:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.33] (p17.3c06.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.5.33]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3LKNNm18864 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:23:23 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <42655250@webmail.utk.edu> References: <42655250@webmail.utk.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <692413990c39ca95646952804fa610aa@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing question Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:34:09 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is it a buttonhole that is made right at the seamline, in which case, it is just an opening in the seam? On Apr 19, 2005, at 8:25 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: > Ok, I've got a question for all you sewing champs out there. I'm > looking > through > the lastest copy of Threads, and there's this article on bias collars > or some > such. Anyway, on the last page of that article is a photo and the > caption > says > something about an "inseam button-hole like on this sheer fabric." > > What's an inseam button hole? > > thanks, > Susan > > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > University of Tennessee > http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:29:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKTtlU020672 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:29:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKT6LV017684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:29:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKT2iX016012; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:29:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3JK9AKg019671 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 14:09:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CB7435217 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:09:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t3p106.socket.net [64.85.220.108]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 27B7ED3FB for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:09:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Opinions on a portrait (1485-90 Flanders)? Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:09:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO a bit of rabbling. http://www.wga.hu/html/m/memling/3mature5/30young.html First layer is a fine pleated/gathered linen shirt with a "boat" neckline. Hem/edge of neckline is black. There may be another gathering below it but it would be covered by the tie/ribbon not all shirts had the poofiness with the sleeves. In some areas it was a straight sleeve. This does not appear to be Handkerchief weight linen. The black band is what is holding the "ribbon" together at the wrist. One could get the impression that the lattice work is a part of the black fur piece. It is not the sleeve that dissuades this but the front near the waist. The black starts to cover the lattice bodice, where as the sleeves could be tied on (still can be). Now it is possible that since it is fur that the covering of the lattice can be achieved and still have the ribbon lattice a part of the fur garment. The distancing of the ribbon indicates the feasability of a garment totally made of the lattice. There is also the questionable piece on his right shoulder that could be attached to the ribbon and is part of the fur garment. Since my monitor makes it hard to tell, the outer "fur" garment maybe of black fabric with a turned back fur collar and the ribbon lattice and ties are sew to this garment for closures, with tie on lattice sleeves. My assessment is that you have either 2 or 3 layers, no more. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:32:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKW9Xq020680 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:32:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKSdNT017591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:31:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKFPmD002789; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:15:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3J6Yc5J059958 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:34:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from [69.3.237.125] (helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DNmJh-0006wH-MV for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 02:34:37 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Mime-Version:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type; b=hN7QE44JcWBq5m2rOsnI0fxliSh6HcP2ZgYWO9YDFEPmmYtZ1fDlf2rtpsNt/OyK; Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <4262865F.9070408@earthlink.net> <018d01c54379$ec9a34c0$6501a8c0@JRB2> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:52:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Left weave? was Fabric term? "End on End" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d47871d827ff0926bd8766273f1f07e1c9df99834a2394cbb54f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.237.125 X-DCC-SINECTIS-Metrics: net.indra.com 1114; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:42 PM +0100 4/18/05, Jean Waddie wrote: >This gives me an opportunity to ask about something that has been >bugging me. Gap over here has been running this advertising saying >that their new jeans are softer because they're woven to the left >instead of to the right. This sounds like total pseudoscience to >me, about as convincing as face cream adverts, but is there anything >in it? If you use the same thread, same weave pattern, will it make >any difference whether your twill goes to the left or to the right? >And if so why? Given thread of the same spin direction, it does make a difference which way the twill goes. It has to do with whether the individual fibers end up lying in parallel with the line of the twill or cross-wise to it. Heather -- -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:32:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKWNFs020683 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:32:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKSdNV017591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:31:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKEiLS002060; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:14:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3IMftP7006496 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:41:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from JRB2 (CPE-65-28-189-254.neb.res.rr.com [65.28.189.254]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j3IMfnY1028832 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:41:52 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:41:41 -0500 Message-ID: <022f01c54467$cc007730$6501a8c0@JRB2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3IMftP7006496 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT Left weave? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jean-- I can't think of any reason for a left-hand twill to be any different from a right-hand twill. What would really make a difference is the yarns themselves--their weight and softness, and how tightly they are woven. Twill is more comfortable than a plain weave for slacks, as it has more give, more stretch when you move. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Jean Waddie Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 1:43 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] OT Left weave? was Fabric term? "End on End" This gives me an opportunity to ask about something that has been bugging me. Gap over here has been running this advertising saying that their new jeans are softer because they're woven to the left instead of to the right. This sounds like total pseudoscience to me, about as convincing as face cream adverts, but is there anything in it? If you use the same thread, same weave pattern, will it make any difference whether your twill goes to the left or to the right? And if so why? Jean _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:42:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKg3cE020717 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:42:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKf8LV019540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:41:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKf2ud026864; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:41:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40427.mail.yahoo.com (web40427.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.92.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3K2nJB2058359 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:49:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 68532 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Apr 2005 02:49:14 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=iDRv1ty4Cyo+8m5qhjBi6wTB3KDh/6kkaRqxgx5OyaZw9MYbR9LYmcpCX4MDL4tJTKqjKDMbygfnf5eTB/W1Vd7gH5GBmtfhsf+BczQBAfoyHKW11PDidZ6fTbHVfFlDLwjU/riUOIbuO05ZW3fX6K5spCn5X16acM4YApCwEVk= ; Message-ID: <20050420024914.68530.qmail@web40427.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.176.127] by web40427.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:49:13 PDT Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:49:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504170457.j3H4uV0q069645@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 60s - 70s - 80s movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about "Working Girl" for 80's? I always loved the big hair and big shoulder pads! :-) ~Mary > Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 18:45:59 -0700 > From: Althea Turner > Subject: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies > > Greetings all, > > I am looking to put together a list of movies for my students from > the > 60-80s that shows contemporary fashions. Does anyone have any > suggestions for movies that clearly show contemporary dress? I'm > also > looking for movies that idealized contemporary fashion/ interiors. > > Thanks!! > > Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > Reunite Pangaea! > "Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick & wicked." ~ Jane Austen "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:42:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKgwQ3020727 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:42:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKg3LV019765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKg25q027963; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:42:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3K38Bn0072471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:08:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-166.sonic.net [209.148.113.166]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3K38851006363 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:08:09 -0700 Message-ID: <4265C79D.8060507@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:08:13 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] French costume films X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone recommend any good costume films in French with English subtitles? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:43:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKhcwk020736 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:43:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKgkLV019932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKghnx028622; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:42:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3K5EYW4063304 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:14:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3K5AdNA023534 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 01:10:40 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.90.255] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-90-255.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.90.255]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3K5EO8U182246 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 01:14:33 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050419213558.035eae70@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:14:21 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) In-Reply-To: <020d01c544d3$7adfc240$03e6a6cb@ewalpole> References: <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050412141603.024f0fa0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >http://www.tudor-portraits.com/HelenaSnakeborg.jpg Remember that there are two sets of threads at right angles to each other, the warp and the weft. If you gather the whole top of the body tube into the neck hole then one set of threads goes around the neck in concentric circles, like the flowers in the Snakeborg portrait do, and the other set of threads radiates from the neck seam, like the Pelican portrait's gold lines do. So the lines of decoration depend on which set of threads they follow. I'm a self-taught costumer, so I use either set of threads as my grain if the fabric has no obvious reason to use one particular set of threads rather than the other. (For example, you can do this with muslin, but not with a one-way-up print). You were hanging up on my lack of precision in the use of the word "grain" - in most cases I see two "grains" where you see one. >http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth22.jpg CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:44:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKiFVb020742 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:44:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKhkLV020155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:43:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKhjrb029665; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:43:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKhhsF029561 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:43:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pdx-ppp467.pop1.net [209.102.126.67]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA25586 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:45:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp467.pop1.net [209.102.126.67] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Message-ID: <42681055.2040101@pcez.com> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:43:01 -0700 From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Printing, etc. on fabric References: <200504161550.j3GFoLm8029726@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20050416234340.02849d60@pop.radiks.net> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050416234340.02849d60@pop.radiks.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you, Sandy. I will have to check out the product. If it doesn't work on fabric, it will help any of the collages I have plans for. Roscelin Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > Another idea you might try, then -- hobby stores that sell model > supplies (like for model cars, etc.) have a kit for making the water > slip decals on your printer. It has the decal paper, and a can of > spray for setting the ink so it doesn't run when you put the decal in > water. I would guess that the spray is available separately. I don't > know how it would react to fabric (haven't tried it) but it did work > on the decals (I needed to make plastic masks with specific images on > them - the decals worked wonderfully!!) I don't remember the full > name of the product, but the word ended in -cal. > > HTH, > > Sandy > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:46:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKksnw020770 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:46:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKkILV020651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKk7Aw032106; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:46:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKjwOs031960 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:46:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pdx-ppp467.pop1.net [209.102.126.67]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA25629 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:48:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp467.pop1.net [209.102.126.67] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Message-ID: <426810DE.5050207@pcez.com> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:45:18 -0700 From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Printing on Fabric References: <20050417.082343.2504.0.Cley@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20050417.082343.2504.0.Cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, Arlys. I'll have to check them out the next time I am downtown in that area which is about a couple of times a month. Roscelin Cynthia J Ley wrote: >You might try Faber-Castell ARts & Graphic Polychromos pencils. Arts >Media carries them. They're waterproof and the colors are wonderful. They >won't smudge or fade. > >Arlys > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:50:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKo5VK020791 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:50:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKneLV021506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKnZsa035572; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:49:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41801.mail.yahoo.com (web41801.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.135]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3KITD6t068920 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:29:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 71591 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Apr 2005 18:29:08 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=in6Mkaqla4a5gp0IYQkrk58BUOSkf9jwxILWyWu1nmYRDIFQOfigYDXn9gWW2V8ZIJalNV2Yhs3CRuXkZuFFEblMiBSuiWm1D0h1+tLvZsOZASPxXZl0d9HiT0tJbCRzerti7FAllBxyzUEUdozen2nEul1lpZoEtRinZLyZTMI= ; Message-ID: <20050420182908.71589.qmail@web41801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41801.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:29:07 PDT Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:29:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hearst Castle A "Strange "place to visit To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting place,but "weird" too. They shuttle you on little "pods" everywhere...with 2"hosts"(all of whom have military haircuts and little radio wire-thingies hanging out of their ears )bringing up the front and rear. You sit where you are told, told what not to touch,"advised" not to cross any "invisible fencing" (a little boy leaned over the "line" to look at something and alarms went off-about 10 guys literally appeared out of the walls of the room, and scared the je-jesues out of the poor kid). You are like a "polite prisoner" there, probably more so now since 9-11. oh and you don't get to see the entire house,just your"section". Melody --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > drool.... I would love to see the Hearst Castle. > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:58:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKwMe3020828 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:58:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKveLV023055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:57:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKvZvk043735; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:57:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KLQA3n035800 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:26:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F30583FD1C for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:26:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 6F3A5726C; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:26:01 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:26:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curry Stains X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.135] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCZsjpAAHwhwEAAAAB,0bb3e31d0dd828c52977f770887b3657 Message-Id: <20050420212601.6F3A5726C@sitemail.everyone.net> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You might want to try a dye remover. All curry is not the same, but most contain saffron which is a very good natural dye (or tumeric which is pretty good too). There are other ingredients used in some curries that are natural dyes too. Regular stain remover may not be strong enough to get that stuff out. Good Luck! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Lloyd Mitchell" wrote: From: "Lloyd Mitchell" Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:07:45 -0400 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curry Stains Have you tried 'Aunt Ellen's stain remover'? You can find this at JoAnn's in the notion area, and I am beginning to see it in hardware stores. It comes labeled for white or for colored garments. I have found this to very good on set in stains like tablecloths. Is your shirt 100% cotton? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: [h-cost] Curry Stains > Greetings All! > > I need the collected wisdom of the list. My brand new cotton turtle neck has been stained with curry sauce. As soon as I realized I had gotten the curry sauce on my sweter, I treated it with Shout wipe (but as I was on vacation I was unable to wash it immedately). When we got home on Sunday, we immedately washed the sweater. Then washed it again with a different stain treatment. And again with another one. So it has now been washed three times, with different detergents and such. We have been careful not to dry the sweater. However, the stain is still there. Does anyone have any ideas? > > Thanks, > Kit > If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:59:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKx5t9020832 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:59:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKweLV023273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKwdQd044837; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KLq0Rk063228 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:52:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02476 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:51:56 -0500 (CDT) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:51:55 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: New Simplicity Pattern 4551 Thread-Index: AcVF8ytdCfdYZwpSSWOCngBoOXSWZA== From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3KLq0Rk063228 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New Simplicity Pattern 4551 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The new patterns for Summer 2005 issue of the Simplicity pattern catalog are up online, even if they may not have hit your local fabric stores yet. In my area(Nebraska), the newest pattern catalogs arrive at the stores very often before the new patterns do. Pictured online is 4551, a new Civil-War era dress. Hard to tell from the pic, but may be two bodice and at least two sleeve variations. May be a Martha McCain pattern--pic doesn't show full front of pattern envelope or the envelope back. Cindy Abel, _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:59:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKxqr6020840 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:59:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKxJLV023423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:59:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKxIt6045432; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:59:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3KMAGa4081700 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:10:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC7D3C6BC for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:10:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4266D395.9090301@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:11:33 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curry Stains References: <8C713F215EA4180-D48-1311@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C713F215EA4180-D48-1311@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > Greetings All! > > I need the collected wisdom of the list. My brand new cotton turtle neck has been stained with curry sauce. As soon as I realized I had gotten the curry sauce on my sweter, I treated it with Shout wipe (but as I was on vacation I was unable to wash it immedately). When we got home on Sunday, we immedately washed the sweater. Then washed it again with a different stain treatment. And again with another one. So it has now been washed three times, with different detergents and such. We have been careful not to dry the sweater. However, the stain is still there. Does anyone have any ideas? > Turmeric is one of those really tough stains. Two suggestions: hydrogen peroxide, or methylated spirits and some time on the line in the sun. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 16:59:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LKxv5P020844 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:59:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LKxSLV023454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:59:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKxQQt045556; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:59:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKxMsq045364 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:59:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A42123D0058; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:59:13 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.103 ([209.131.81.103] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 21 Apr 05 20:59:08 -0000 Message-ID: <002901c546b5$36275760$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42655250@webmail.utk.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing question Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:00:54 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My guess is that it is a 'slit' in the seam that is wide enough to allow a button to pass through. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Farmer" To: "garb" Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: [h-cost] sewing question > Ok, I've got a question for all you sewing champs out there. I'm looking > through > the lastest copy of Threads, and there's this article on bias collars or some > such. Anyway, on the last page of that article is a photo and the caption > says > something about an "inseam button-hole like on this sheer fabric." > > What's an inseam button hole? > > thanks, > Susan > > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > University of Tennessee > http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 17:02:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LL2oQG020886 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:02:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LL27LV023830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:02:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LL220f047701; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:02:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3L2LkgP074003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:21:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:46087 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DORK5-0003I1-4K for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:21:45 -0400 Received: from 198.93.212.215 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3751.198.93.212.215.1114050106.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curry Stains From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.212.215 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <8C713F215EA4180-D48-1311@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> References: <20050420120627.XWDB11124.lakermmtao04.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <8C713F215EA4180-D48-1311@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Curry is a mix of spices. Some of the spices in it contain at least some oil. I would first rub a liquid dish soap or laundry detergent into the stains. then use an oxygen bleach on it, either as a paste or as a concentrated liquid such as the new oxyclean stain spray in a bottle which works very well. this should help with the orangy red color, but it won't come out til you remove the oil. if that doesn't work, get some ERA which has an enzyme in it and rub it well into the moistened stain, let it sit for at least a half hour or an hour and wet it and rub til the stain is loosened, then wash again. I use this for grass and mud, as well as blood and it works well. after I have used the enzyme on Any stain which might contain protein, I use Hydrogen Peroxide on the stain, over and over, til it is removed. pour it on, allow it to foam up, rinse or squeeze it out, then pour it on again. HTH, Kitty in SW Pennsylvania. > Greetings All! > > I need the collected wisdom of the list. My brand new cotton turtle > neck has been stained with curry sauce. As soon as I realized I had > gotten the curry sauce on my sweter, I treated it with Shout wipe (but > as I was on vacation I was unable to wash it immedately). When we got > home on Sunday, we immedately washed the sweater. Then washed it again > with a different stain treatment. And again with another one. So it > has now been washed three times, with different detergents and such. We > have been careful not to dry the sweater. However, the stain is still > there. Does anyone have any ideas? > > Thanks, > Kit > If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - > Kenneth Cole > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 17:17:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LLH4Zk020948 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:17:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LLGaLV025943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:16:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LLGSNZ061684; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:16:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LK0SaI087460 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:00:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) Received: from [66.43.209.42] (HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with SMTP id 735689467 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:00:27 -0500 Message-ID: <012e01c546ac$c673e350$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <72C64B20-AEE2-11D9-B23E-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <001601c542fa$7b235ee0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60s - 70s - 80s movies Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:00:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> I am looking to put together a list of movies for my students from the >> 60-80s that shows contemporary fashions. Does anyone have any >> suggestions for movies that clearly show contemporary dress? I'm also >> looking for movies that idealized contemporary fashion/ interiors. St. Elmo's Fire. Shows lots of variance on the trends of the day like Preppy and Valley Girl as well as other everyday attire. Denise in Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 17:23:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LLNrZM021011 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:23:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LLNJLV026649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:23:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LLNG0h068110; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:23:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts5.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.25]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LKnpWE035831 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:49:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from carolynscreations1@sympatico.ca) Received: from dehacked.2y.net ([65.93.197.220]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20050421204951.NPTV26128.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@dehacked.2y.net> for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:49:51 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (carolynsnew [10.0.0.15]) by dehacked.2y.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 008CD838005 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4268122E.2050706@sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:50:54 -0400 From: Carolyn Kelly User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Susan An inseam button hole is where a seam is left open every few inches to make a buttonhole. It is usually a design feature and would not be suitable for something that would have some strain on it, but it does look very lovely. Hope this helps. Carolyn Kelly Message: 6 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:25:37 -0400 From: Susan Farmer Subject: [h-cost] sewing question To: garb Message-ID: <42655250@webmail.utk.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Ok, I've got a question for all you sewing champs out there. I'm looking through the lastest copy of Threads, and there's this article on bias collars or some such. Anyway, on the last page of that article is a photo and the caption says something about an "inseam button-hole like on this sheer fabric." What's an inseam button hole? thanks, Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of Tennessee _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 17:37:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LLbpJ8021080 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:37:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LLaoLV027995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:36:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LLaYR7080395; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:36:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LLaUMI080264 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:36:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.1e3.3a45ebb4 (3924) for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:36:20 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1e3.3a45ebb4.2f9976d4@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:36:20 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity Pattern 4551 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/21/2005 4:59:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu writes: May be a Martha McCain pattern Yes, it is. Now she is promising to go on to American Rev. War period. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 17:48:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LLm0va021137 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:48:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LLlHLV029414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:47:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LLlEwT090604; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:47:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LLlA9Q090441 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:47:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A34B3C6BF for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:47:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42681F5F.1050706@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:47:11 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] French costume films References: <4265C79D.8060507@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4265C79D.8060507@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote: > Can anyone recommend any good costume films in French with English > subtitles? The Horseman on the Roof (1996) You can also search DVDs by country at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/284929/ref=br_lr__4/002-1273198-5299216 Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 17:58:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LLwUMP021181 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:58:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LLvqLV000743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:57:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LLvnBK000211; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:57:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1a.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LLvimI000112 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:57:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B673C14C for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:57:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p023.socket.net [64.85.216.25]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 185B2D3F7 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:57:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Simplicity Pattern 4551 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:57:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Same dress worn in Anne and the King. I believe in the first day of class and the croquet game. De -----Original Message----- The new patterns for Summer 2005 issue of the Simplicity pattern catalog are up online, even if they may not have hit your local fabric stores yet. In my area(Nebraska), the newest pattern catalogs arrive at the stores very often before the new patterns do. Pictured online is 4551, a new Civil-War era dress. Hard to tell from the pic, but may be two bodice and at least two sleeve variations. May be a Martha McCain pattern--pic doesn't show full front of pattern envelope or the envelope back. Cindy Abel, _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 18:03:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LM3jSl021201 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:03:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LLwbMj000827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:03:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LLfoVI085431; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:41:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LLfio2085235 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:41:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Scourney@nwlink.com) Received: from sc (ip157.usw235.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D2C863254F for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00d801c546bb$3f1c11c0$0200a8c0@sc> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <02b401c54249$ce9feb80$ce634ed5@Mudfeet> <07ab01c542a7$96362670$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] bliaut thinking... Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:44:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was thinking about bliaut and their pleats last night and remembered that years ago I knew a weaver who was working on a special project. the fabric was set up so that once it had been woven and washed, the fabric would form little pleats as the warp (or the weft - can't remember which) would shrink slightly in the washing. Has anyone ever seen anything like that? Is it possible that the fabric pleats were either woven in or are an accident of weaving that someone liked and incorporated into a dress that was copied? One thing I have wanted to check is if there is a middle eastern garment that has a waist seam that could have turned into a bliaut. I have seen pictures of men (in medieval india I think) wearing transparent garments with what could be a waist seam. What if a crusader brought one home, gave it his wife, who then wore it to a special function. It wasn't made for a female body, so it wrinkled oddly, but it still was different and she was important so it was considered stylish, not wrong. Someone who saw it there, copied it, but not knowing about the waist seam, made it slightly different. She wore it a nearby function, where someone else, who hadn't seen the first garment, tried to copy the look and made it differently. And so on. We know how copies of copies get skewed. So there might not be one right way to make these, but a variety of ways depending on how good the seamstress was and how far she was from the first garment. Plus the fabric they are made would vary as not everyone is going to have access to the same material, so there is another point that changes. Waist seams for instance are a jump in logic a dressmaker might not make if she isn't aware that they exist. But she might put darts at the waist to make the dress fit like one she saw. Or she may think that the difference is caused by having another piece of fabric over a dress, first trying something just on the torso and when that doesn't work well, a whole top. Or she may make the jump to a waist seam, but noone else follows her so the innovation is lost. The pleats on the torso could be an accident of not fitting that became codified into something different as each seamstress tried to make it look both like the garment they were copying and fit the person who is going to wear it. Susan Courney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 18:03:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LM3qwh021205 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LLwbMh000827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:03:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LLffu4085287; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:41:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LLfdeQ085246 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:41:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DOjQY-0006of-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:41:38 -0700 Message-ID: <42681E12.2020805@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:41:38 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] QEW Farthingale Cartoons-better copy anyone? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone have a better picture of the cartoon on page 197 of QEW? Also the ballet dancers on 199? I know I have seen them somewhere else, but can't find either. I need them for a slide presentation. So if you would be willing to send them to me, please contact me! Saragrace _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 18:08:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LM8T7Y021232 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:08:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LM82LV001816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LM7vMP009158; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:07:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LM7rYJ009077 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:07:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6303E3515F for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:07:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p023.socket.net [64.85.216.25]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0168CD3F7 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:07:52 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] bliaut thinking... Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:07:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <00d801c546bb$3f1c11c0$0200a8c0@sc> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes I have. I bought at light weight fabric that was smooth and when I washed it, it looked like broomstick skirt pleating. It ironed out so that I could cut it but I had to change the pattern to accommodate the "puckering" when it got washed again. Fortune'(sp?) had a way of creating that pleated look with his draped garments. Though I am not sure whether I read that it was an old process that he had rediscovered or that the process was lost after he died. De -----Original Message----- I was thinking about bliaut and their pleats last night and remembered that years ago I knew a weaver who was working on a special project. the fabric was set up so that once it had been woven and washed, the fabric would form little pleats as the warp (or the weft - can't remember which) would shrink slightly in the washing. Has anyone ever seen anything like that? Is it possible that the fabric pleats were either woven in or are an accident of weaving that someone liked and incorporated into a dress that was copied? (snip) Susan Courney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 18:12:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LMCPcJ021245 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:12:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LMC1LV002210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LMBrch012573; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:11:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LMBeCG012344 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:11:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11573 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:27:29 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:27:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing question In-Reply-To: <42655250@webmail.utk.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 19 Apr 2005, Susan Farmer wrote: > Ok, I've got a question for all you sewing champs out there. I'm > looking through the lastest copy of Threads, and there's this article > on bias collars or some such. Anyway, on the last page of that > article is a photo and the caption says something about an "inseam > button-hole like on this sheer fabric." > > What's an inseam button hole? Everyone else has suggested a form of buttonhole, but I'm wondering if they're suggesting using buttonhole stitch to create the inseam. I don't have the magazine, so of course I have no idea what they're showing... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 18:16:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LMGGhj021280 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:16:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LMFmLV002586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:15:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LMFlSk016058; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:15:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LMFgcp015989 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:15:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) Received: from [68.167.255.232] (helo=boris) by smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DOjxW-0007iN-E3 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:15:42 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=QCyGiAl3X+C9mrPNC8splrGBoCrlbt5pHvSLa/fMSgjDAlP9F5wORO4lzeleSZVi; Message-ID: <00f101c546bf$d40a7480$0300a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050420182908.71589.qmail@web41801.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hearst Castle A "Strange "place to visit Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:16:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd481c780c9517741526477d2d82147d29165af2f0520a031d2f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.167.255.232 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On the other hand, if you take all of the tours you pretty much do see all of the place, and the guest houses and gardens, too. The extra security was put into place after someone on one of the tours caused some serious damage to one of the pieces before they could be stopped. I don't have the details on that, but I think I remember something about throwing some chemical onto one of the textile pieces and almost destroying it. When the tour guide for one of the tours I took realized that I kept lingering behind because I was looking at the embroideries, he made sure that he pointed them all out in each room, and even turned pieces so I could see the backs of them. All in all, I enjoyed all of the tours, even if you are quite regimented in them. I have some wonderful pictures, and I'd go again in a heartbeat. Melusine > Interesting place,but "weird" too. They shuttle you > on little "pods" everywhere...with 2"hosts"(all of > whom have military haircuts and little radio > wire-thingies hanging out of their ears )bringing up > the front and rear. You sit where you are told, told > what not to touch,"advised" not to cross any > "invisible fencing" (a little boy leaned over the > "line" to look at something and alarms went off-about > 10 guys literally appeared out of the walls of the > room, and scared the je-jesues out of the poor kid). > You are like a "polite prisoner" there, probably more > so now since 9-11. > oh and you don't get to see the entire house,just > your"section". > Melody > > --- Penny Ladnier wrote: >> drool.... I would love to see the Hearst Castle. >> >> >> > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 18:21:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LMLFxB021337 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:21:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LMKeLV003114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:20:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LMKbZA020284; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:20:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LMKXbG020194 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:20:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11704 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:36:21 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:36:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 60s - 70s - 80s movies In-Reply-To: <20050420024914.68530.qmail@web40427.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 19 Apr 2005, Mary wrote: > How about "Working Girl" for 80's? I always loved the big hair and > big shoulder pads! :-) Also good visualization of class difference between the female execs and the secretaries. When Tess decides to masquerade as an executive, she borrows her boss's clothes and also cuts off her long hair, saying, "If you want to be taken seriously, you've got to have serious hair." --Robin who wears overly sober suits to balance out her non-serious hair _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 18:23:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LMN85X021348 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:23:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LMMiLV003292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:22:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LMMhqr022114; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:22:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LMMeEC022043 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:22:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11755 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:38:28 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:38:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] QEW Farthingale Cartoons-better copy anyone? In-Reply-To: <42681E12.2020805@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Wicked Frau wrote: > Does anyone have a better picture of the cartoon on page 197 of QEW? > Also the ballet dancers on 199? > > I know I have seen them somewhere else, but can't find either. Aren't they in Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines? I believe Arnold was not the first to show them. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 18:36:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LMac3e021417 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:36:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LMV4LV004190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:31:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LMV15H029632; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:31:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3LMUsKb029482 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:30:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2005 22:30:48 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050421232924.014d0610@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:30:59 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] QEW Farthingale Cartoons-better copy anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <42681E12.2020805@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 17:38 21/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Wicked Frau wrote: > > > Does anyone have a better picture of the cartoon on page 197 of QEW? > > Also the ballet dancers on 199? > > > > I know I have seen them somewhere else, but can't find either. > >Aren't they in Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines? I believe Arnold was not >the first to show them. I think they are in "Patterns of Fashion 1560-1630" or whatever the dates are. I didn't think they were in "Corsets and Crinolines". Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 18:38:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LMcLdT021423 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:38:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LMbsLV004986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:37:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LMbpsq035552; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:37:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LMbh3Q035436 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:37:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DOkIp-0002sa-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:37:43 -0700 Message-ID: <42682B37.5000309@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:37:43 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] QEW Farthingale Cartoons-better copy anyone? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found one...in Textiler Hausrat...I don't have this Waugh book, but can get it tomorrow at the Library... Thanks! Robin Netherton wrote: >On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Wicked Frau wrote: > > > >>Does anyone have a better picture of the cartoon on page 197 of QEW? >>Also the ballet dancers on 199? >> >>I know I have seen them somewhere else, but can't find either. >> >> > >Aren't they in Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines? I believe Arnold was not >the first to show them. > >--Robin > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 19:06:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LN6H2A021660 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:06:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LN5SLV008282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:05:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LN5N3K058864; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:05:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LN5IYH058761 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:05:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12087 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:21:06 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:21:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] QEW Farthingale Cartoons-better copy anyone? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050421232924.014d0610@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Suzi Clarke wrote: > I think they are in "Patterns of Fashion 1560-1630" or whatever the > dates are. I didn't think they were in "Corsets and Crinolines". I don't have the book, but I did find a citation I made in a not-yet-published paper: Waugh describes the sketch of the dancers in Corsets and Crinolines (1954), p. 22. I believe she also has the picture to accompany that, and I'm pretty sure the cartoon of the ladies dressing is there too. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 19:47:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3LNkx1L021833 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:47:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3LNkPLV012149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:46:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LNkKrn091518; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:46:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3LNjDJV090474 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:45:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-217-60-253.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.217.60.253]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3LNirTK025377 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:45:02 +1000 Message-ID: <005701c546cc$01267f20$fd3cd9cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004701c545fe$50e853e0$0701a8c0@lazear1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish soldiers in the inquisition Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:15:23 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So what would the soldiers carry? Knives? Swords? any info is appreciated. We're going to be doing some combat scenes and the director/choreographer wants an idea of what he should be working with in advance. > > thanks! > > angela I'd assume their main weapon would be a gun by this time, from my vague recollections of pictures of English soldiers at roughly the same time a sword and possibly a dagger would also have been carried, though it depends to a certain extent on what class these soldiers are, there were pikemen, cavalry, and other groups (sorry I can't really remember much) English Civil War groups might also be another source of information although there is a 20-30 year time gap, I don't think it's that big. HTH Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 20:03:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3M03trt022100 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:03:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3M03PLV015620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:03:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3M03MRO006035; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:03:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3M03Kg8005903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:03:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F02AD82D3 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 07630-06 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9D796D8268 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005401c546ce$a68860d0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 60s - 70s - 80s movies Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:03:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Also good visualization of class difference between the female execs and > the secretaries. When Tess decides to masquerade as an executive, she > borrows her boss's clothes and also cuts off her long hair, saying, "If > you want to be taken seriously, you've got to have serious hair." > > --Robin > who wears overly sober suits > to balance out her non-serious hair Hmmm... daily wardrobe... fleece pants T-shirt long straight hair.... no makeup No wonder no one takes me seriously!! LOL Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 21 21:09:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3M19ITR022390 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:09:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3M18CLV025613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:08:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3M183j9056254; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:08:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3M17wZu056094 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:07:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 29C4D18001D2 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 01:08:01 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.31) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 22 Apr 2005 01:14:49 -0000 Received: by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C0C08E5BC7; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 01:09:39 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [149.169.241.158] by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:09:39 -0500 From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:09:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] bliaut thinking... X-Originating-Ip: 149.169.241.158 X-Originating-Server: ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050422010939.C0C08E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3M17wZu056094 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Susan wrote; > > One thing I have wanted to check is if there is a middle eastern garment > that has a waist seam that could have turned into a bliaut. I have seen > pictures of men (in medieval india I think) wearing transparent garments > with what could be a waist seam. Unfortunately, jamas (also called crossover coats) don't come into India until the 13th century. To the best of my knowledge, jamas that you describe, made out of really sheer fabric with a waist seam, show up first in the Deccan (south-central India) in the 16th century. So there isn't any way a crusader could have possibly brought one back :) >What if a crusader brought one home, gave > it his wife, who then wore it to a special function. It wasn't made for a > female body, so it wrinkled oddly, There really isn't a major difference in the way that men and women's coats are made. Even if a crusader *had* brought back a man's coat for his wife, odds are that it would have fitted pretty well. -Katie Buffy: And what are we if not women up to a challenge? Willow: Exactly! I mean, did we not put the 'grr' in girl? -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 22 03:21:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3M7KxMk017589 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 03:21:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3M7JxLV006227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 01:19:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3M7JlBc018694; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 01:19:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3M7Jd2x018567 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 01:19:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 07:19:33 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050422081904.014d08d8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:19:44 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] QEW Farthingale Cartoons-better copy anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050421232924.014d0610@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 18:21 21/04/2005 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Suzi Clarke wrote: > > > I think they are in "Patterns of Fashion 1560-1630" or whatever the > > dates are. I didn't think they were in "Corsets and Crinolines". > >I don't have the book, but I did find a citation I made in a >not-yet-published paper: Waugh describes the sketch of the dancers in >Corsets and Crinolines (1954), p. 22. I believe she also has the picture >to accompany that, and I'm pretty sure the cartoon of the ladies dressing >is there too. Oops, so they are. Sorry. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 22 04:04:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3M8492f024444 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 04:04:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3M83cLV009280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 02:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3M83Ynk047641; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 02:03:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3M83VcT047205 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 02:03:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j3M82td21775.; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:02:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:02:55 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:02:41 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] French costume films Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3M83VcT047205 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Tous les matins du monde" (about the 17th century composer Marin Marais and his teacher). Gerard Depardieu narrates and plays Marais in later life; his son Guillaume plays him as a young man. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 22 08:30:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3MCUUDI026453 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:30:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MCTbLV010903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 06:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MCTRNJ029640; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 06:29:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3MCTPR7029515 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 06:29:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2005042208291603468 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:29:16 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id j3MCTE0j002679 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:29:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <099201c54736$f147fc80$4aa810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050414120759.014cc360@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050420111843.014cfe90@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric organization Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:29:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When you find that strength, send me some! Kate > I think my problem boils down to the fact that there is just too darn much > for one business, and I should be strong and throw excess fabric at the > charity shop, or the local school, anywhere but in to another box!! > > Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 22 09:59:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3MDxCv7027259 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:59:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MDwPLV020348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 07:58:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MDwFYC000496; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 07:58:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MDw9DQ000395 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 07:58:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from [192.168.167.47] (helo=wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1DOyfY-00005e-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:58:08 -0400 Message-ID: <32264740.1114178288540.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:58:07 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Short-notice Elizabethan gig, anybody? SOUTHERN CONNECTICUT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, all. I got this message from a friend who's in an early-music ensemble (Everyman Guild, website www.everymanguild.org). By "Trinity Banquet" she means a medieval-banquet king-and-queen gig John McDonough and I did in January, dressed appropriately for "yore." Shakespeare on the Sound is an outdoor summer Shakespeare performance, semiprofessional company. This is a "greeter" job. I noted to Matilda that Henry VIII was dead when Shakespeare was born and so I didn't really understand why they'd want him greeting guests at a Shakespearean event.... I sent her a couple of names yesterday, but she hasn't heard back from them (or from John), and I know none of them, including John, has Elizabethan garb. I have stage-Elizabethan but can't fit into any of those gowns, since they were made for actresses in my company and I am more....heroically....proportioned. So this morning it occurs to me to put this out to the list. Is there anyone, male or female, in the Southern-Connecticut area with "Shakespearean" garb and the ability to play Shakespeare, Her Majesty Elizabeth R, or some Shakespearean character in a meet-and-greet venue? In a follow-up message Matilda suggested to me that although they ASKED for Shakespeare or Henry VIII they would probably be glad for any appropriate character. If interested, you can reply to me (ruthanneb@mindspring.com) or to Matilda (matildag@charter.net Mention my name and/or enclose this message) directly, and obviously as soon as possible. Thanks. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- > Dear Ruthanne, > > I have a job that I need to fill- someone to be Henry VIII OR > Shakespeare, and be at the Shakespeare on the SOund 10th anniversary > Gala this Saturday night, and act as a welcomer, greeter, to the > 200-300 guests coming to the event in Rowayton. I thought of you, and > John McDononough, who do such great job t the Trinity Banquet. Want > to come as a team and recreate the roles? If you are busy (it is > Passover- what a bad planning move on their part) can you give me > John's contact information? This is ridiculously late to find > someone, but the event coordinators didn't tell us we had the job > (contact personin hospital) till late. So, I am still on the hunt. > Got any ideas? The pay is pretty good- $200. > > Many thanks for any leads. > > Matilda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 22 11:17:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3MFHOCw027973 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:17:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MFGZLV000248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:16:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MFGQog070432; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:16:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3MFGIS5070210 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:16:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from snappylunch_2001@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 25544 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Apr 2005 15:16:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=eKpjYWQYRRMD0eRQ1Gxlk6LrtABDgX7AFYlECROIHVirxGk17/IkrMH9NkpABGBlhQbp35hvluifZXBcFkGBB3rFcotqwhKNBfxPM/kPgFh4G6nhUmNFrwGynTo7l7XHCg1fSeWfTvZe6Ht88Eo0OXtPntJoaFjgwJ2iK7LMBTI= ; Message-ID: <20050422151613.25542.qmail@web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.4.90.6] by web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:16:13 PDT Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:16:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Mia Dappert To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504221359.j3MDwGMP000509@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:New Simplicity X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The new Simplicity is very graceful, very pretty. It put me in mind of the dresses Suan Sarandon wore in the latest version of Little Women I can't to see the Rev War. things Mia in Charlotte __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 22 15:28:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3MJSsPj029572 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:28:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MJRoLV013160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:27:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MJRODQ010202; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:27:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mercury.mv.net (mercury.mv.net [199.125.85.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3MJRFVI009964 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:27:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from michelle@hamel.mv.com) Received: (qmail 4367 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 15:27:10 -0400 Received: from bnh-3-08.mv.com (HELO MICHELLE) (199.125.99.136) by mercury.mv.net with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 15:27:10 -0400 X-Peer-Info: remote-ip 199.125.99.136 local-ip 199.125.85.40 local-name mercury.mv.net Message-ID: <070b01c54770$26a39090$e7627dc7@MICHELLE> From: "Michelle McKenney" To: , , Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:19:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2739.300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: good weight for linings? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all :-) Newbie question here: Is 5 oz. linen too heavy for use as a lining fabric? (I have some originally intended for garb, and it's very nice :-) I've got some tropical-weight wool and such that are about that weight themselves... it would seem that anything heavier would be too much for lining, but much thinner (such as 3.5 oz "hanky" weight) would be too lightweight to do the job? Or am I on the wrong track here? The intended garb is medieval era -- linen kirtles, linen and tropical wool houppelandes, a sideless surcote or two (please excuse me if my use of the terms is incorrect; so much to learn and so little brain space left to fill ;-) ... thanks for any guidance, take care, Michelle in Stonemarche _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 22 15:52:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3MJqOuZ029685 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:52:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MJpfLV015675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MJpbH4032065; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:51:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MJpTaH031958 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:51:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.73]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MJpRck009159 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:51:27 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.90.255] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-90-255.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.90.255]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MJpNhB054930 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:51:28 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050422124858.0265bff8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:50:25 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: good weight for linings? In-Reply-To: <070b01c54770$26a39090$e7627dc7@MICHELLE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Newbie question here: Is 5 oz. linen too heavy for use as a lining fabric? I don't know these things by numbers, but I'd go with something the weight of a man's shirt. This is the same weight as the stuff usually sold to quilters, or as a nice bedsheet. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 22 15:56:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3MJuu2s029698 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:56:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MJu9LV016161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:56:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MJu9Pk036124; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:56:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MJu47t036056 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:56:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21300 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:11:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:11:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: good weight for linings? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050422124858.0265bff8@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 22 Apr 2005, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >Newbie question here: Is 5 oz. linen too heavy for use as a lining > fabric? > > I don't know these things by numbers, but I'd go with something the > weight of a man's shirt. This is the same weight as the stuff usually > sold to quilters, or as a nice bedsheet. If you're looking for a structural lining, e.g. for a fitted 14th-15th c. dress that molds the figure, I'd go for suit weight rather than shirt weight. Works fine even under a slightly lighter-weight wool. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 22 16:08:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3MK8sQQ029768 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:08:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MK8SLV017469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:08:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MK8MRr047237; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:08:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3MK8Iio047173 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:08:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-31774); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:07:08 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:07:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050422130140.00dd8500@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:08:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: good weight for linings? In-Reply-To: <070b01c54770$26a39090$e7627dc7@MICHELLE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would recommend a lighter fabric for the lining than for the outer fabric. With tropical-weight wool, I *would* use hanky weight linen for lining. Joan in Sacramento, CA (very hot summers ) At 03:19 PM 4/22/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all :-) > >Newbie question here: Is 5 oz. linen too heavy for use as a lining fabric? >(I have some originally intended for garb, and it's very nice :-) I've got >some tropical-weight wool and such that are about that weight themselves... >it would seem that anything heavier would be too much for lining, but much >thinner (such as 3.5 oz "hanky" weight) would be too lightweight to do the >job? Or am I on the wrong track here? The intended garb is medieval era -- >linen kirtles, linen and tropical wool houppelandes, a sideless surcote or >two (please excuse me if my use of the terms is incorrect; so much to learn >and so little brain space left to fill ;-) ... > >thanks for any guidance, take care, > >Michelle in Stonemarche _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 22 17:08:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ML8dnJ030297 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:08:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ML7oLV023282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ML7gHJ098072; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:07:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ML7YC1097995 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:07:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.73]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ML7Wck002374 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:07:32 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.90.255] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-90-255.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.90.255]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ML7ShB103494 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:07:33 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050422134355.02649e90@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:47:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: good weight for linings? In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20050422130140.00dd8500@pop.surewest.net> References: <070b01c54770$26a39090$e7627dc7@MICHELLE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I would recommend a lighter fabric for the lining than for the outer >fabric. With tropical-weight wool, I *would* use hanky weight linen for >lining. >Joan in Sacramento, CA (very hot summers ) How well does hanky weight lining hold up to heavy wear, like for a Ren. Faire? I found that I wore right thru my hanky weight Ren. shirts after like one Faire season of use, and that includes changing shirts each day. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 22 18:03:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3MM386Y030587 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:03:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MM2VLV000938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:02:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MM2Pu7048135; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:02:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MM2Hl8047950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:02:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-116.sonic.net [209.148.113.116]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MM2E6F016006 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:02:14 -0700 Message-ID: <4269746C.9070907@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:02:20 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: French costume dramas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the suggestions for French costume films. There were some I hadn't seen and I ordered them. I just saw a very powerful Merchant/Ivory film titled "Feast of July." It's based on a historical novel, not an actual Victorian novel, but takes place in the 1880s. It's reminiscent of _Tess of the D'urbervilles_. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 23 07:54:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3NBsRGl004690 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:54:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3NBreLV022455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Apr 2005 05:53:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3NBrTI9015507; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 05:53:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3NBrNup015377 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 05:53:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A72A3CA0052; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:53:14 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.120 ([209.131.81.120] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 23 Apr 05 11:53:10 -0000 Message-ID: <007b01c547fb$463ea080$785183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:54:57 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] solesof Jacob? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3NBsRGl004690 Status: RO Marc Carlson queried last week as to the "meaning of the soles of Jacob." My husband just brought to my attention a postcard on e-bay. It is a photo of a man in bibical dress, costumed for the role of 'Laban'. His feet are shod with a peculiar wrapped sandal. Might the phrase describe footwear that was not common in western dress through the past couple of centuries (at least)? It is the wear of desert regions? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 23 16:33:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3NKXVM0010885 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 16:33:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3NKWMLV009622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Apr 2005 14:32:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3NKWAYg081545; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 14:32:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41825.mail.yahoo.com (web41825.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.94.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3NKW8TS081444 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 14:32:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 56204 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Apr 2005 20:32:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=d5R9JPAAbAVdJguX/JeS00hT2NPx2wrVvSQ6qy1Mt2dZOm/4S/gRVqrn8LkCR7F07urnjW44yHsbp2RfZRQxaSOEk7mqmcFLTiSZ5oPIhDR6yhOw2mml/2IgW5Os/jU7PBO/6aeU0jnjxfUpWUGQSEWk/P3S/rZ7KPkE1fjBh08= ; Message-ID: <20050423203202.56202.qmail@web41825.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41825.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 13:32:02 PDT Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 13:32:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] French costume films //////// My Fav........ To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How's about "Brotherhood of the Wolf"? I loved the Coats the 2 main characters wore in the begining.... And the French "secret Agent Lady's" outfit at the end, during the fight with the beast, di that crazy fan! --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > "Tous les matins du monde" (about the 17th century > composer Marin Marais and his teacher). Gerard > Depardieu narrates and plays Marais in later life; > his son Guillaume plays him as a young man. > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 23 18:17:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3NMH4iX011812 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:17:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3NM8ULV016618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Apr 2005 16:08:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3NM8HYY046261; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 16:08:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3NM8BlO046142 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 16:08:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp209.directcon.net [209.79.209.209]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id j3NM9tg05748 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:09:56 -0700 Message-ID: <002901c5484f$c8afae20$d1d14fd1@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050420182908.71589.qmail@web41801.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hearst Castle A "Strange "place to visit Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 14:59:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody Watts" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hearst Castle A "Strange "place to visit > You are like a "polite prisoner" there, Oh, I didn't think it was that bad...Of course I didn't try to touch anything, but they didn't mind that when everyone else was staring at the ceiling in the dining room, I was down on my knees staring at the fabric on the chair backs. I went with a friend who had been there previously with his then girlfriend, and he was quite amused that I noticed all the same things she did...and they weren't what the guides were pointing out. :) Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 01:28:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3O5Sh0U014768 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:28:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3O5RpLV022286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:27:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3O5Rccq031415; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:27:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out-mail04.yourhostingaccount.com (outmail.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.254.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3O5RZS5031388 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:27:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from SRS0=XY05Cr=TB=sewingcity.com=becky@yourhostingaccount.com) Message-Id: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com> Received: from scan06.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.236] helo=scan06.yourhostingaccount.com) by mail04.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DPZeZ-00019d-EM for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:27:35 -0400 Received: from authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.155] ident=exim) by scan06.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1DPZeZ-0004WE-Ho for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:27:35 -0400 Received: from authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.155] helo=authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan06.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DPZeZ-0004W9-CY for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:27:35 -0400 Received: from pool-71-111-177-89.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.111.177.89] helo=random) by authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1DPZeY-0004os-Hh for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:27:35 -0400 From: "Becky @ SewingCity.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re:New Simplicity Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 22:27:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Thread-Index: AcVHUCol0jCLyjDmRiywSGGmqHd6kwBPegMg In-Reply-To: <20050422151613.25542.qmail@web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-EN-UserInfo: 231a4af1c6595951fa0035d7a7dfc491:44225c88802e2dc5c324d40447d7bea9 X-EN-AuthUser: becky@sewingcity.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just loved all the clothing from Anna and the King, as well as the King and I. They look *very* heavy to wear. Does the pattern come with any underpinnings? Becky http://www.sewingcity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 15:09:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OJ9AWZ029982 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:09:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OJ7vLV006229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:07:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OJ7sRX076985; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:07:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OJ7qxv076922 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:07:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.183] (206-124-5-183.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.183]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3OJ5Am10065 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:05:10 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <9ef56360c10f35ccc51e8b95992b9d95@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kinda OT Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:16:02 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie Taymore is both the director and the costume designer? Sorry, but I never heard of her. Sylrog On Apr 24, 2005, at 12:55 PM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > I went to Julie Taymore's new production of "Magic Flute"....the > Mozart > opera....at the Met Opera in NYC, last Wed. night. Very yummy. > > Anyway, here's the "review" I wrote for my buds on the AOL Classical > Music > board. I DO talk a bit about the costumes so it's not all that OT. But > here's > what I send the music board....if you're interested... > > ************************************************** > > > OK....here goes.... > > The production used all of Julie Taymore's vocab. And subtlety is not > one of > them....but that's OK. > > I left my program in the restaurant we had dinner in afterwards so I > can't > remember who sang. I'm sorry. Y'all will have to look it up. > > Everyone sounded great to me....but Sarastro was a little grumbly. The > Queen > of the night was divine! My fave. Her voice was melodic and clear as a > ringing bell. Pamina sang well but couldn't act. James Levine > conducted with > energy and the tempi were crisp. [The fugue of the overture FLEW!] > This is the 1st time I've seen "Flute" live. It seems choppy and > disjointed > ....a little. I think this is the fault of the libretto and is a major > hurdle > the director must overcome....or at least soften. > > And now the visuals....GASP! > > The set was more successful that the costumes. I can't remember the > designer's name....but I know who it is. He's done some major works. > Julie did the > costumes herself and some work, other's suck. Very uneven. There were > puppets > and dancers in amazing stuff [as birds and things] that you can see in > "Lion > King" too. Also an army of actors in black to work puppets and wings > and > birds....like Japanese theatre. [What are those guys dressed in black > and working > props called anyway?] > > Tamino looked like a hero...from, well, "Hero" or the Middle East, or > China, > or Japan,....a vague exoticism hard to pin down. Pamina's outfit was > just > plain ugly and I don't know where she was coming from. It said more > Eastern > European folk doll than ingenue. Ultramarine blue fading to orange at > the above > ankle hem. YUK! A flat white apron with something painted on it. Huh? > Earth to > Ms Taymore! > Papageno was in bright grass green long johns and a cap with a bird > beak for > a brim....tuned backwards. At one point he puts the magic bells on his > shoulder like a boom box. There is also a sorta cage over his chest > and legs. > Papagena wears a cage hoop skit. All these cages come off in their > duet. > Sarastro had an interesting chrome yellow robe curiously cut...half > circles > that emerged from each other from head to toe....but his headdress > looked like > a bicorn. He came across as half Mikado, half Napoleon. Monostatos > was a > chubby eunuch bat in black and yellow. > > The Queen of the Night was beautiful! For her act one aria she was a > huge > white and gold moth ...the enormous wings operated by those guys in > black. Her > next appearance...her big Act two ditty, was the same costume sans > gold, and > with red streamers from the "antenna", red hands and the hem stained > in red, > like she had been walking ankle deep in blood. The wings flew apart and > disappeared before the aria started. Her last little scene had her > with no wings > and all red. > > > The 3 ladies where all black, like the prop guys, but with white > floating > heads with a wisp of smoke [white silk] trailing. These they plucked > off their > real blacked out heads and operated with their right hand. The three > little > boys rode an enormous bird. They were all white with a 3rd eye and > mystic > symbols drawn on them in black. They had long white beards. > > > > The sets where the thing! Very cool. It consisted of 3 huge walls of > layered > Plexiglas each with an opening in the center...one a circle, one a > triangle > and one a square. A network of triangles in white neon was sandwiched > in the > Plexiglas as well as a grid of hieroglyphs lit from within. These > walls were > moved about and set up in various formations. > There were also flat teaser and tormenter curtains in black with the > same > hieroglyphs in white [which became whatever color you lit them] all > over them. > These would fill in the space around the walls and sometimes cover the > whole > back like a drop of hieroglyphs > > The whole thing was very modern and contemporary but not Eurotrashy at > all. > All the stuff emitting its own light was perfect seeing as one main > theme of > the work has to do with dark and light. > > One of my favorite things was this little square platform that keep > coming > into the scene. It was a lit black and white checker board at one > point where, > during the scene where Sarastro and the priests decide the fate of > Tamino > [ends in Sarastro's aria with the chorus ending each phrase.] and the > priests > are moving what seem like game pieces....stylized human figures and > 3-D > versions of the hieroglyphs... on it with shuffleboard sticks. > Later we find Pamina asleep on it...clear now, with Plexiglas roses > lit from > within in red > under it, for Monostato's quick tempo aria. Then for Pamina's suicide > scene...the little stage is alone on stage with a white curtain at the > back > floating on a breeze....the red roses underneath now lit white. She > does her > melodramatic grandstanding on this small stage while the 3 spirits > watch.. I love > that! > > My other favorite stage picture was Papageno's suicide scene. A > stylized > golden tree [that you saw earlier at Papageno's 1st entrance in Act > One] is far > stage left. There are "hills" of plexi stairs trailing to the right. > The > hieroglyph curtain is a flat back wall now with the symbols lit bright > grass > green, the same as Papageno's costume. Just beautiful! > > Though not perfect in every respect, this is a handsome, interesting > and > exciting production that I'm sure will be around for a while. Get to > see it in > the next year or two! > > ************************************************************** > > My advice to the Music Board goes for you H-costume folks too.....GO > SEE IT! > Even if you think you're not interested. It's not a "difficult" opera. > It > has speaking scenes [albeit in German]. It's great fun! > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 15:21:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OJL6vc030076 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:21:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OJJVLV006935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:19:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OJJR6a084554; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:19:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OJJPIs084468 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:19:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005042419192001400od4ame>; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 19:19:20 +0000 Message-ID: <005601c54902$886a0960$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <9ef56360c10f35ccc51e8b95992b9d95@ntw.net> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:19:27 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Julie Taymor X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sylrog, Her most famous work is the costume designer for Broadway's The Lion King. A couple of years ago, there was a traveling exhibit of her costumes from various plays that she had designed. I saw the Washington DC exhibit.... WOW!!!!!!!!!! One of my all-time favorite exhibits. Have you seen the book written by Julie called The Lion King? The play's costumes are shown in detail in the book. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 15:30:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OJU1Sq030142 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:30:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OItWLV005455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 12:55:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OItOFe068572; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 12:55:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OItMsG068487 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 12:55:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.d6.25477fa8 (4446) for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:55:08 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:55:08 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Kinda OT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I went to Julie Taymore's new production of "Magic Flute"....the Mozart opera....at the Met Opera in NYC, last Wed. night. Very yummy. Anyway, here's the "review" I wrote for my buds on the AOL Classical Music board. I DO talk a bit about the costumes so it's not all that OT. But here's what I send the music board....if you're interested... ************************************************** OK....here goes.... The production used all of Julie Taymore's vocab. And subtlety is not one of them....but that's OK. I left my program in the restaurant we had dinner in afterwards so I can't remember who sang. I'm sorry. Y'all will have to look it up. Everyone sounded great to me....but Sarastro was a little grumbly. The Queen of the night was divine! My fave. Her voice was melodic and clear as a ringing bell. Pamina sang well but couldn't act. James Levine conducted with energy and the tempi were crisp. [The fugue of the overture FLEW!] This is the 1st time I've seen "Flute" live. It seems choppy and disjointed ....a little. I think this is the fault of the libretto and is a major hurdle the director must overcome....or at least soften. And now the visuals....GASP! The set was more successful that the costumes. I can't remember the designer's name....but I know who it is. He's done some major works. Julie did the costumes herself and some work, other's suck. Very uneven. There were puppets and dancers in amazing stuff [as birds and things] that you can see in "Lion King" too. Also an army of actors in black to work puppets and wings and birds....like Japanese theatre. [What are those guys dressed in black and working props called anyway?] Tamino looked like a hero...from, well, "Hero" or the Middle East, or China, or Japan,....a vague exoticism hard to pin down. Pamina's outfit was just plain ugly and I don't know where she was coming from. It said more Eastern European folk doll than ingenue. Ultramarine blue fading to orange at the above ankle hem. YUK! A flat white apron with something painted on it. Huh? Earth to Ms Taymore! Papageno was in bright grass green long johns and a cap with a bird beak for a brim....tuned backwards. At one point he puts the magic bells on his shoulder like a boom box. There is also a sorta cage over his chest and legs. Papagena wears a cage hoop skit. All these cages come off in their duet. Sarastro had an interesting chrome yellow robe curiously cut...half circles that emerged from each other from head to toe....but his headdress looked like a bicorn. He came across as half Mikado, half Napoleon. Monostatos was a chubby eunuch bat in black and yellow. The Queen of the Night was beautiful! For her act one aria she was a huge white and gold moth ...the enormous wings operated by those guys in black. Her next appearance...her big Act two ditty, was the same costume sans gold, and with red streamers from the "antenna", red hands and the hem stained in red, like she had been walking ankle deep in blood. The wings flew apart and disappeared before the aria started. Her last little scene had her with no wings and all red. The 3 ladies where all black, like the prop guys, but with white floating heads with a wisp of smoke [white silk] trailing. These they plucked off their real blacked out heads and operated with their right hand. The three little boys rode an enormous bird. They were all white with a 3rd eye and mystic symbols drawn on them in black. They had long white beards. The sets where the thing! Very cool. It consisted of 3 huge walls of layered Plexiglas each with an opening in the center...one a circle, one a triangle and one a square. A network of triangles in white neon was sandwiched in the Plexiglas as well as a grid of hieroglyphs lit from within. These walls were moved about and set up in various formations. There were also flat teaser and tormenter curtains in black with the same hieroglyphs in white [which became whatever color you lit them] all over them. These would fill in the space around the walls and sometimes cover the whole back like a drop of hieroglyphs The whole thing was very modern and contemporary but not Eurotrashy at all. All the stuff emitting its own light was perfect seeing as one main theme of the work has to do with dark and light. One of my favorite things was this little square platform that keep coming into the scene. It was a lit black and white checker board at one point where, during the scene where Sarastro and the priests decide the fate of Tamino [ends in Sarastro's aria with the chorus ending each phrase.] and the priests are moving what seem like game pieces....stylized human figures and 3-D versions of the hieroglyphs... on it with shuffleboard sticks. Later we find Pamina asleep on it...clear now, with Plexiglas roses lit from within in red under it, for Monostato's quick tempo aria. Then for Pamina's suicide scene...the little stage is alone on stage with a white curtain at the back floating on a breeze....the red roses underneath now lit white. She does her melodramatic grandstanding on this small stage while the 3 spirits watch.. I love that! My other favorite stage picture was Papageno's suicide scene. A stylized golden tree [that you saw earlier at Papageno's 1st entrance in Act One] is far stage left. There are "hills" of plexi stairs trailing to the right. The hieroglyph curtain is a flat back wall now with the symbols lit bright grass green, the same as Papageno's costume. Just beautiful! Though not perfect in every respect, this is a handsome, interesting and exciting production that I'm sure will be around for a while. Get to see it in the next year or two! ************************************************************** My advice to the Music Board goes for you H-costume folks too.....GO SEE IT! Even if you think you're not interested. It's not a "difficult" opera. It has speaking scenes [albeit in German]. It's great fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 15:39:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OJdQQo030203 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:39:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OJcsLV008394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:38:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OJcmne097403; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:38:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OJcj3I097368 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:38:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.183] (206-124-5-183.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.183]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3OJa7m11402 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:36:07 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <005601c54902$886a0960$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> References: <9ef56360c10f35ccc51e8b95992b9d95@ntw.net> <005601c54902$886a0960$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <3de4bb26d214fcd2fd9cfc23b0ffc4de@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Julie Taymor Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:46:53 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The name did sound familiar and now I recall hearing about her in reference to the Lion King. Did she do the choreography for that? On Apr 24, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Sylrog, > > Her most famous work is the costume designer for Broadway's The Lion > King. A couple of years ago, there was a traveling exhibit of her > costumes from various plays that she had designed. I saw the > Washington DC exhibit.... WOW!!!!!!!!!! One of my all-time favorite > exhibits. Have you seen the book written by Julie called The Lion > King? The play's costumes are shown in detail in the book. > > Penny Ladnier, owner > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 15:53:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OJrHG2030300 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:53:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OJqiLV009365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:52:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OJqfip006827; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:52:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OJqbJV006745 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:52:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005042419523101100878p0e>; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 19:52:31 +0000 Message-ID: <005f01c54907$2b923cd0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <9ef56360c10f35ccc51e8b95992b9d95@ntw.net><005601c54902$886a0960$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <3de4bb26d214fcd2fd9cfc23b0ffc4de@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Julie Taymor Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:52:39 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think so. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 16:08:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OK8NJA030417 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:08:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OGkALV025700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OGjvWa081090; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:45:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OGjtnW081065 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:45:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from perronnelle@earthlink.net) Received: from user-12hc6s3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.131] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DPkF0-0000jg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:45:55 -0700 Message-ID: <426BCD55.8040202@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 11:46:13 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for a picture References: <426BB982.9080009@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <426BB982.9080009@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wicked Frau wrote: > Hi all, sorry for duplicate posts. I am looking for a better color > image of this picture: > http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/swiss_guard/swissguard/divisa_en.htm > I think I have seen it before in black and white, but am not sure. > > Any ideas? Skimming the link's text, it appears to be a fresco by Raffaello. --Charlene -- Macho: The strutting-and-crowing behavior of men who apparently use roosters as role models without ever wondering why there are so few of them in relation to hens. -- Bayan, Rick; The Cynic's Dictionary, 2002 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 16:16:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OKGI2M030467 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:16:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OFLjLV017735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OFLaNY023888; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:21:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OFLYIr023868 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:21:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DPivO-0006qN-00; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:21:34 -0700 Message-ID: <426BB982.9080009@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:21:38 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" , thefrazzledfrau@yahoogroups.com, GermanRenCostume-owner@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Looking for a picture X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, sorry for duplicate posts. I am looking for a better color image of this picture: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/swiss_guard/swissguard/divisa_en.htm I think I have seen it before in black and white, but am not sure. Any ideas? Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 16:16:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OKGI2O030467 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:16:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OFoKLV019875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OFoHLe042825; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:50:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OFoFAZ042790 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:50:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DPjN8-0002Iw-00; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:50:14 -0700 Message-ID: <426BC03D.6080205@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:50:21 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <426BB982.9080009@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <426BB982.9080009@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: GermanRenCostume-owner@yahoogroups.com, thefrazzledfrau@yahoogroups.com, "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Looking for a picture-by Rapheal? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This might be a fresco by Rapheal. Wicked Frau wrote: > Hi all, sorry for duplicate posts. I am looking for a better color > image of this picture: > http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/swiss_guard/swissguard/divisa_en.htm > I think I have seen it before in black and white, but am not sure. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 16:22:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OKMpkt030577 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:22:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ODvaLV012206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 07:57:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ODvXb7068424; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 07:57:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:hHnb1zXbjNeLqT886qoO1iRANumgezbR@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ODvVJb068382 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 07:57:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j3ODvUpS022473 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:57:30 -0400 Received: from pool180-89.patriot.net ([209.249.180.89]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com> <000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re:New Simplicity From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolann Schmitt said, > While the heavier fabrics may resemble the original fabrics in appearance, > the heavier weight not only makes them uncomfortable to wear; the garments > don't have the same drape. Also, I think we expect the clothes will be heavy because of the circumferece of the skirts. Hoops are also fairly light. The trick is to be able to move gracefully in the clothes, so they don't end up bouncing around, the skirts swinging like a bell, etc. Proper movement adds to the "weight" of the look. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 16:23:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OKMpkv030577 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:23:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ODo0LV011729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 07:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ODnnwg063299; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 07:49:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (cmlapp16.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.229]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ODnhCr063227 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 07:49:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-65-41-207-213.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [65.41.207.213]) by cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF27C30089 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:49:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re:New Simplicity Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:49:19 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-reply-to: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3ODnhCr063227 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Simplicity has several Martha McCain patterns for a complete set of underpinnings, including chemise, drawers, corset, crinoline and petticoats. While fashions from this era may look very heavy to wear, if they are made in appropriate weight fabrics they usually are not. Many of the fabrics used during the period are very lightweight. As part of a presentation, I did a comparison of the weights of original garments, reproduction garments using comparable weight fabrics, and reproduction garments using inappropriate weight fabrics, i.e. drapery or upholstery fabrics. Several original silk taffeta dresses weighed a little less than a pound; the reproductions using comparable fabrics and linings weighed within an ounce of the originals; reproductions using a drapery fabrics weighed from five to eight pounds. While the heavier fabrics may resemble the original fabrics in appearance, the heavier weight not only makes them uncomfortable to wear; the garments don't have the same drape. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 I just loved all the clothing from Anna and the King, as well as the King and I. They look *very* heavy to wear. Does the pattern come with any underpinnings? Becky http://www.sewingcity.com _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 16:23:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OKN33i030583 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:23:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OKMHLV011447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OKM8Q6026344; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:22:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail13.mdx.safepages.com (mail13.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OKM4PL026192 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:22:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail13.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id D44611386A6; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:22:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust54.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.54]) by mail13.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 845261386A6 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:21:51 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com><000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:22:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: > Also, I think we expect the clothes will be heavy because of the > circumferece of the skirts. Hoops are also fairly light. The trick > is to be able to move gracefully in the clothes, so they don't end up > bouncing around, the skirts swinging like a bell, etc. I can't remember which novel it was--I read it years and years and years ago--but in a novel written in the 1880s there was a really interesting bit of conversation between a young woman and her older relative. The younger woman was looking at a picture of her older relative in 1850s or 60s clothing and exclaimed that it must have been very difficult to get around in that huge thing. The older woman replied that on the contrary, she missed those fashions horribly, because they were so airy and light, and she could skip along so easily with her legs completely unencumbered. She went on to complain about how horribly restrictive and unhygienic the early 1880s fashions were, with their tight skirts and long trains picking up dirt everywhere they went. That conversation stuck in my head so much that for years afterwards I'd think about it every time I saw anything from the 1880s, and that I actually lost a good bit of my interest in recreating anything from that era! Although, on the other side of the argument, here's a story told by Jane Lee Smith, born 1853 and interviewed in the late 1930s, which presents a situation where hoops definitely would not be comfortable: "What did we wear in those days? I guess we wore just about all there was to be found to wear, kitchen stove an' everything. It was worse 'n the hats the women wear now. Hoops and petticoats, an' corset covers an' corsets -- great big heavy stiff things -- I don' know how we managed so many clothes. There was a fleshy lady living down on the Luckiamute that got caught in a hole in the river on her pony. The Luckiamute was always a mighty treacherous stream. Every time there was a freshet the current would change, so one never knew just where to ford the stream. This lady was with a party and they were all horseback. She was on a little pony, and she was kinda big and fat. The pony stepped in a hole, and with her weight on it, it couldn't get out. The lady had hoops on, and when the men went to help her, her hoops caught on the curved under horn of the side saddle. They tried to get the hoops out and in doing so twisted them, and there she was. The pony couldn't budge and they couldn't get her off, and the pony couldn't get out of the hole as long as she was on its back, she was so heavy. Finally they gave a big tug at the hoops and got 'em loose, an' then they managed to lift her up and hold her till the pony struggled out, an' then they dropped her in the saddle and she rode the pony on across -- an' was she "red in the face" as the young folks say nowadays." (This account is from the Library of Congress website.) -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 16:51:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OKpvWB030989 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:51:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OKpELV013766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:51:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OKp8CK046034; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:51:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OKp54C046009 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:51:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.59] (206-124-5-59.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.59]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3OKmQm14935 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:48:27 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com><000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:59:19 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For a project in costume construction when I was working on my MFA I had to make a complete outfit from a historical period and I chose 1860. I actually never quite finished it but I got the corset, hoop skirt, petticoat, skirt and bodice made and I remember wondering, when I put it all on myself and tried to walk around the costume shop, how anyone could have felt comfortable in such clothing. You can't even walk through modern doorways in it and there would have to be lots of room between pieces of furniture in one's house from this period. That got me to thinking today with the current topic of discussion, if houses from this era did have bigger rooms. I know that when you go into a Victorian house from the late 1800s the rooms are typically quite small, but women's clothing had gotten much closer to the body by then. Does anyone know what mid 19th century houses were like? I guess the ones that remain standing in the south would be good examples, although they seem to have been built by the wealthy who could afford larger houses and larger rooms. What about those of more modest incomes but whose women still would have worn hoops? Sylrog ' On Apr 24, 2005, at 2:22 PM, E House wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: >> Also, I think we expect the clothes will be heavy because of the >> circumferece of the skirts. Hoops are also fairly light. The trick >> is to be able to move gracefully in the clothes, so they don't end up >> bouncing around, the skirts swinging like a bell, etc. > > > I can't remember which novel it was--I read it years and years and > years ago--but in a novel written in the 1880s there was a really > interesting bit of conversation between a young woman and her older > relative. The younger woman was looking at a picture of her older > relative in 1850s or 60s clothing and exclaimed that it must have been > very difficult to get around in that huge thing. The older woman > replied that on the contrary, she missed those fashions horribly, > because they were so airy and light, and she could skip along so > easily with her legs completely unencumbered. She went on to complain > about how horribly restrictive and unhygienic the early 1880s fashions > were, with their tight skirts and long trains picking up dirt > everywhere they went. That conversation stuck in my head so much that > for years afterwards I'd think about it every time I saw anything from > the 1880s, and that I actually lost a good bit of my interest in > recreating anything from that era! > > Although, on the other side of the argument, here's a story told by > Jane Lee Smith, born 1853 and interviewed in the late 1930s, which > presents a situation where hoops definitely would not be comfortable: > > "What did we wear in those days? I guess we wore just about all there > was to be found to wear, kitchen stove an' everything. It was worse 'n > the hats the women wear now. Hoops and petticoats, an' corset covers > an' > corsets -- great big heavy stiff things -- I don' know how we managed > so many clothes. There was a fleshy lady living down on the Luckiamute > that got caught in a hole in the river on her pony. The Luckiamute was > always a mighty treacherous stream. Every time there was a freshet the > current would change, so one never knew just where to ford the stream. > This lady was with a party and they were all horseback. She was on a > little pony, and she was kinda big and fat. The pony stepped in a hole, > and with her weight on it, it couldn't get out. The lady had hoops on, > and when the men went to help her, her hoops caught on the curved under > horn of the side saddle. They tried to get the hoops out and in doing > so twisted them, and there she was. The pony couldn't budge and they > couldn't get her off, and the pony couldn't get out of the hole as long > as she was on its back, she was so heavy. Finally they gave a big tug > at the hoops and got 'em loose, an' then they managed to lift her up > and hold her till the pony struggled out, an' then they dropped her in > the saddle and she rode the pony on across -- an' was she "red in the > face" as the young folks say nowadays." > > (This account is from the Library of Congress website.) > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 17:10:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OLAVjD031121 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:10:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OL9iLV015317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:09:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OL9fWj058624; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:09:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OL9ZgB058528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:09:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-233.sonic.net [209.148.113.233]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OL9Xxa003532 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:09:34 -0700 Message-ID: <426C0B0F.3090202@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:09:35 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com><000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > She went on to complain about how horribly restrictive and unhygienic > the early 1880s fashions were, with their tight skirts and long trains > picking up dirt everywhere they went. Some of the original 1880s clothes are quite heavy, and a cut velvet upholstery fabric complete with upholstery fringe looks quite accurate for an 1880s dolman (as long as the fiber does not look synthetic). The late 1870s/early 1880s trains are lovely. When people compare current fashions to past ones, a big factor is whether they feel, in a more general way, whether things were "better" in the past versus the present. The other thing about 19th-century clothes, throughout the century, is: People tended to build warmth into the basic garments, as opposed to relying mostly on one outer coat the way we do. That means original outdoor walking dresses and even indoor winter dresses can be quite thick and heavy. Yet a third thing is that modern upholstery (and drapery) fabrics are not all heavy by any means. They tend to be stronger/more durable than many clothing weight fabrics, but they are not all thicker and heavier. Fran Lavolta Press Two new books of 1870s and 1880s clothing patterns! http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 17:18:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OLIpxL031180 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:18:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OLI7LV016133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:18:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OLI7OI064246; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:18:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OLI5oh064197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:18:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-233.sonic.net [209.148.113.233]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OLI4N6004810 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:18:04 -0700 Message-ID: <426C0D0E.50201@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:18:06 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com><000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub> <7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I grew up in a famhouse that was built in 1860 and has not been remodeled, and knew other people in the area with similar houses. Yes, when people had the money and the land, the rooms were bigger and had higher ceilings. Furthermore they were more even in size. The bedrooms in our house were exactly the same size as the parlors, and had exactly the same number of closets, windows, and even access to porches. Even the attic was divided into three identical rooms, which though smaller and lower at the sides (roof slant) were by no means poky. Whereas, today many people decide to have a huge living room and/or a huge master bedroom, and then make other rooms smaller. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > That got me to thinking today with the current topic of discussion, if > houses from this era did have bigger rooms. I know that when you go > into a Victorian house from the late 1800s the rooms are typically > quite small, but women's clothing had gotten much closer to the body > by then. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 17:41:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OLfsi6031294 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:41:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OLf3LV017513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:41:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OLev1W079524; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:40:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OLetPh079325 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:40:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from argenthal@comcast.net) Received: from COMPUTER (pcp09142381pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net[69.142.192.249]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005042421403801400ol9eke>; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 21:40:38 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01c54916$3fbc4b60$f9c08e45@COMPUTER> From: "Valerie Frank" To: Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:39:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT-Magic Flute X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3OLfsi6031294 Status: RO Hi, I saw the new Magic Flute production on April 13. It was very different and technicaly complicated. I've also seen the previous production which was designed by David Hockney. The qustion that arises is, where does one draw the line in deciding if the surface (costume and sets) of a production is overwhelming the substance (music, singing, acting,story) of a production? Anna von Argenthal _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 17:48:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OLmBNE031334 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:48:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OLlbLV017926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:47:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OLlYdf083979; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:47:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (cmlapp16.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.229]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OLlWJU083949 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:47:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-71-0-3-79.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [71.0.3.79]) by cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8677A30319 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:47:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:47:06 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <000901c54917$2eda48a0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-reply-to: <426C0B0F.3090202@lavoltapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3OLlWJU083949 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Some of the original 1880s clothes are quite heavy, and a cut velvet >upholstery fabric complete with upholstery fringe looks quite accurate >for an 1880s dolman (as long as the fiber does not look synthetic). The >late 1870s/early 1880s trains are lovely. That's true. I've noticed that some original clothing from later in the century is often heavier - whether due to a heavier textile or more "understructure" in the garment. And there are home decorating fabrics that are very similar to garment fabrics from this quarter of the century. The selection of appropriate home decorating fabrics for use in mid-century clothing is not quite as large. :-) >The other thing about 19th-century clothes, throughout the century, is: >People tended to build warmth into the basic garments, as opposed to >relying mostly on one outer coat the way we do. That means original >outdoor walking dresses and even indoor winter dresses can be quite >thick and heavy. Generally, most of the winter mid-19thc garments I've found are not that much heavier. Wool batting is frequently used for quilted garments or those with quilted linings and it's very lightweight. Most of the wool dresses and wool petticoats are no heavier than a mid-weight wool flannel. Even the original outer garments I've looked at are not that heavy. My research on mid-century dress for cold weather indicates that using several lighter weight layers of wool was the most common way to stay warm. >Yet a third thing is that modern upholstery (and drapery) fabrics are >not all heavy by any means. They tend to be stronger/more durable than >many clothing weight fabrics, but they are not all thicker and heavier. True, not all of them are. My in-laws were interior designers with their own workrooms and we had some lovely light weight drapery and upholstery fabrics. However, most of these lighter fabrics are only available through better textile and design houses or from wholesale sources. The majority of the drapery and upholstery fabrics available in the chain fabric houses are heavier than most period garment fabrics. I may still be haunted by a reproduction dress I saw a few years ago. Made of VERY heavy drapery fabric and over-scale trimming, the owner was proudly stating it weighed 56 pounds and she needed suspenders to hold it up. :-0 Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 18:32:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OMWX9d031595 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:32:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OMRKLV021063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:27:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OMR6oE009625; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:27:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OMQwnJ009535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:27:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-233.sonic.net [209.148.113.233]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OMQu61010691 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:26:57 -0700 Message-ID: <426C1D32.8070506@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:26:58 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort References: <000901c54917$2eda48a0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> In-Reply-To: <000901c54917$2eda48a0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >However, most of these lighter fabrics are only available through >better textile and design houses or from wholesale sources. The majority of >the drapery and upholstery fabrics available in the chain fabric houses are >heavier than most period garment fabrics. > > Thankfully, the Internet has released most American sewers from reliance on Jo-Ann's and Wal-Mart. I live in an area with several really great brick-and-mortar fabric stores, but I now buy many of my fabrics on the net. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 18:33:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OMXHbN031605 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:33:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OLErLV015828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:14:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OLEool062042; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:14:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (cmlapp16.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.229]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OLEmN4062010 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:14:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-71-0-3-79.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [71.0.3.79]) by cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B48A830155 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:14:45 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:14:20 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <000801c54912$9ad6bb10$0600a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-reply-to: <7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3OLEmN4062010 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm curious - just how big was that hoop? :-) I wear mid-19th century clothing including a full set of undergarments on a very regular basis and I have no problems whatsoever with performing daily tasks. The crinoline I wear most often measures 116" in circumference; for very physical tasks I'll wear one that measures 90" in circumference. I walk through doorways, go up and down stairs, do household tasks, drive a car, do errands, teach classes, and just about anything else that comes to mind. The doorways in my house are no wider or no narrower than in any of the other mid-19th century homes in my town (Gettysburg), and my modern home probably has a lot more clutter than the vast majority of the restored homes of any socio-economic class that I've been in. The only accommodations I've had to make is learn to bend my knees rather than just bending over when I pick up something off the floor and put a pillow behind my back when driving a car with bucket seats. I know I was not an example of grace in motion the first time I wore a crinoline, but it didn't take me long to learn how to move and work in it. And if I'm honest, I'm much less of a klutz in my period attire than I am in modern dress. BTW - You can find the occasional docent at an antebellum home who says "the doorways are so wide to accommodate the hoop skirts". The only problem is, most of the houses were built several decades before the advent of the crinoline and when skirts were much narrower! Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:59 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) For a project in costume construction when I was working on my MFA I had to make a complete outfit from a historical period and I chose 1860. I actually never quite finished it but I got the corset, hoop skirt, petticoat, skirt and bodice made and I remember wondering, when I put it all on myself and tried to walk around the costume shop, how anyone could have felt comfortable in such clothing. You can't even walk through modern doorways in it and there would have to be lots of room between pieces of furniture in one's house from this period. That got me to thinking today with the current topic of discussion, if houses from this era did have bigger rooms. I know that when you go into a Victorian house from the late 1800s the rooms are typically quite small, but women's clothing had gotten much closer to the body by then. Does anyone know what mid 19th century houses were like? I guess the ones that remain standing in the south would be good examples, although they seem to have been built by the wealthy who could afford larger houses and larger rooms. What about those of more modest incomes but whose women still would have worn hoops? Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 18:45:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3OMjh9j031732 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:45:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OMj5LV022210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OMiwKx021349; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:44:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3OMitTN021282 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:44:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2005 22:44:54 -0000 Message-ID: <006101c5491f$41646700$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <9ef56360c10f35ccc51e8b95992b9d95@ntw.net><005601c54902$886a0960$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <3de4bb26d214fcd2fd9cfc23b0ffc4de@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Julie Taymor - Lion King Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:45:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie Taymor directed and costumed the Lion King. Garth Fagan did the choreography. Not that doing the costumes and directing it wasn't an astounding feat, but credit where credit is due ;) angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Julie Taymor > The name did sound familiar and now I recall hearing about her in > reference to the Lion King. Did she do the choreography for that? > > On Apr 24, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: > >> Sylrog, >> >> Her most famous work is the costume designer for Broadway's The Lion >> King. A couple of years ago, there was a traveling exhibit of her >> costumes from various plays that she had designed. I saw the Washington >> DC exhibit.... WOW!!!!!!!!!! One of my all-time favorite exhibits. Have >> you seen the book written by Julie called The Lion King? The play's >> costumes are shown in detail in the book. >> >> Penny Ladnier, owner >> The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com >> Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com >> Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 19:03:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ON3jeo031817 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 19:03:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ON35LV023591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ON32BL033436; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:03:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ON31pj033423 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:03:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.59] (p43.3c06.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.5.59]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3ON0Mm21139 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:00:22 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <000f01c54916$3fbc4b60$f9c08e45@COMPUTER> References: <000f01c54916$3fbc4b60$f9c08e45@COMPUTER> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-Magic Flute Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:11:15 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think you just said it. When the visuals overwhelm the substance, that's where you draw the line. And it takes good designers and directors to figure that out. Now if the designer in this case, Ms. Taymore, is also the director, I can see how the problem arises. Sylrog On Apr 24, 2005, at 3:39 PM, Valerie Frank wrote: > Hi, > I saw the new Magic Flute production on April 13. It > was very different and technicaly complicated. I've also seen the > previous production which was designed by David Hockney. The qustion > that arises is, where does one draw the line in deciding if the > surface (costume and sets) of a production is overwhelming the > substance (music, singing, acting,story) of a production? > > Anna von Argenthal > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 19:17:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3ONHx26031860 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 19:17:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3ONHQLV024541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:17:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ONHLRo042443; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:17:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:MAWw7MMnd5zjX8xQ1b0iXg+y8Sn9IGCk@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3ONHICs042414 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:17:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j3OMrTpS015068 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:53:29 -0400 Received: from pool180-16.patriot.net ([209.249.180.16]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49166.209.249.180.16.1114383209.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <426C0D0E.50201@lavoltapress.com> References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com><000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub><7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> <426C0D0E.50201@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also not everyone lived (or lives) in a new house. While it's easy to remake a dress (or make a new one), it's more effort to remodel or build a new house. I don't think people would knock out a wall or widen their doorways when the dress silhouette changed. Less wealthy people were still fashion conscious, so they would manage to function in the space they had. -Carol > when people had the money and the land, the rooms were bigger and had > higher ceilings. > >> That got me to thinking today with the current topic of discussion, if >> houses from this era did have bigger rooms. I know that when you go >> into a Victorian house from the late 1800s the rooms are typically >> quite small, but women's clothing had gotten much closer to the body >> by then. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 20:29:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3P0TELx032229 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:29:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3P0SQLV029678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:28:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P0SE6n089299; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:28:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp816.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp816.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3P0SCc0089254 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:28:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp816.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2005 00:28:11 -0000 Message-ID: <001001c5492d$af1c4a70$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c54916$3fbc4b60$f9c08e45@COMPUTER> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-Magic Flute Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:28:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So true! I struggle with that often. As a costume designer one must be careful to be true to the story. I tend to like the showier costumes, replete with lovely details, but if the choices overwhelm the story or the setting, then one has not done the job properly. The tendency to be too big, or to make statements that are too large for the moment must be avoided at all costs. Generally, I consider a job well done if the audience only notices the costumes when they should be noticed. Example, if the lavish ballgown on Anna as she dances with the King is delicious, and they comment, that is a natural response and flows well both in and out of the story. People would comment on a lovely ballgown at a dressy event. But, conversely, if people are spending too much time looking at all the pretty dresses in a moment where they (the costumes) are drawing focus from the action in the story, then the costumes are speaking too "loudly" and should be appropriately toned down. It's a balancing act, of course, but ultimately, a good costumer develops a gut instinct for it. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-Magic Flute >I think you just said it. When the visuals overwhelm the substance, that's >where you draw the line. And it takes good designers and directors to >figure that out. Now if the designer in this case, Ms. Taymore, is also >the director, I can see how the problem arises. > > Sylrog > > On Apr 24, 2005, at 3:39 PM, Valerie Frank wrote: > >> Hi, >> I saw the new Magic Flute production on April 13. It was >> very different and technicaly complicated. I've also seen the previous >> production which was designed by David Hockney. The qustion that arises >> is, where does one draw the line in deciding if the surface (costume and >> sets) of a production is overwhelming the substance (music, singing, >> acting,story) of a production? >> >> Anna von Argenthal >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 20:41:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3P0fscO032307 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:41:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3P0fKLV001191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P0fHO9097791; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:41:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P0fEHb097756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:41:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-35.sonic.net [209.148.113.35]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P0fDSE000761 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:41:14 -0700 Message-ID: <426C3CAB.6080404@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:41:15 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com><000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub><7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> <426C0D0E.50201@lavoltapress.com> <49166.209.249.180.16.1114383209.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <49166.209.249.180.16.1114383209.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree that although people did do remodeling, it was not necessarily to accomodate their clothes. However, architectural styles also change. Do you find early 19th-century rooms to be smaller than mid-century ones? Note that urban versus city living has a strong effect on house size. In the country, where land is more available, people tended as a very general rule to build bigger houses. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > Also not everyone lived (or lives) in a new house. While it's easy >to remake a dress (or make a new one), it's more effort to remodel or >build a new house. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 20:43:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3P0huOg032319 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:43:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3P0hPLV001370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:43:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P0hOUV099253; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:43:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P0f3Yt097486 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:41:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.df.123be539 (3940) for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:40:49 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:40:49 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-Magic Flute To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/24/2005 8:31:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes: The tendency to be too big, or to make statements that are too large for the moment must be avoided at all costs. Oh yeah....no room for that in opera! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 20:58:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3P0w6RU032393 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:58:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3P0vRLV002359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:57:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P0vOeo008345; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:57:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P0vMQu008320 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:57:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.177] (p17.3c09.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.5.177]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3P0shm25996 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:54:43 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <000801c54912$9ad6bb10$0600a8c0@genteelarts> References: <000801c54912$9ad6bb10$0600a8c0@genteelarts> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 19:05:36 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I guess it must be an acquired taste. I just know that I never wanted to wear that costume again, unless I could attend a Dickens faire in it, which I have yet to do and I doubt I could fit into my outfit anymore :-(. Sylrog On Apr 24, 2005, at 3:14 PM, Carolann Schmitt wrote: > I'm curious - just how big was that hoop? :-) > > I wear mid-19th century clothing including a full set of undergarments > on a > very regular basis and I have no problems whatsoever with performing > daily > tasks. The crinoline I wear most often measures 116" in circumference; > for > very physical tasks I'll wear one that measures 90" in circumference. > I walk > through doorways, go up and down stairs, do household tasks, drive a > car, do > errands, teach classes, and just about anything else that comes to > mind. The > doorways in my house are no wider or no narrower than in any of the > other > mid-19th century homes in my town (Gettysburg), and my modern home > probably > has a lot more clutter than the vast majority of the restored homes of > any > socio-economic class that I've been in. The only accommodations I've > had to > make is learn to bend my knees rather than just bending over when I > pick up > something off the floor and put a pillow behind my back when driving a > car > with bucket seats. > > I know I was not an example of grace in motion the first time I wore a > crinoline, but it didn't take me long to learn how to move and work in > it. > And if I'm honest, I'm much less of a klutz in my period attire than I > am in > modern dress. > > BTW - You can find the occasional docent at an antebellum home who > says "the > doorways are so wide to accommodate the hoop skirts". The only problem > is, > most of the houses were built several decades before the advent of the > crinoline and when skirts were much narrower! > > Carolann Schmitt > cschmitt@genteelarts.com > www.genteelarts.com > Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On > Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:59 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) > > For a project in costume construction when I was working on my MFA I > had to make a complete outfit from a historical period and I chose > 1860. I actually never quite finished it but I got the corset, hoop > skirt, petticoat, skirt and bodice made and I remember wondering, when > I put it all on myself and tried to walk around the costume shop, how > anyone could have felt comfortable in such clothing. You can't even > walk through modern doorways in it and there would have to be lots of > room between pieces of furniture in one's house from this period. That > got me to thinking today with the current topic of discussion, if > houses from this era did have bigger rooms. I know that when you go > into a Victorian house from the late 1800s the rooms are typically > quite small, but women's clothing had gotten much closer to the body by > then. Does anyone know what mid 19th century houses were like? I > guess the ones that remain standing in the south would be good > examples, although they seem to have been built by the wealthy who > could afford larger houses and larger rooms. What about those of more > modest incomes but whose women still would have worn hoops? > > Sylrog > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 22:56:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3P2uYGm000569 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 22:56:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3P2tqLV010957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P2tcV2073881; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:55:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P2tVZo073725 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:55:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Susannah9810@aol.com) Received: from Susannah9810@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1c2.27436d32 (16930) for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 22:55:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Susannah9810@aol.com Message-ID: <1c2.27436d32.2f9db61a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 22:55:22 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort & houses To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO With the exception of the house I grew up in (your basic 1960s ranch) and the first house we purchased (brand new, will never do it again!), the youngest house I have lived in is the one we now own. It was built in 1904, in a national historic district in a medium-sized southern town, adjacent to the downtown. Previously, we lived in a house on the main road of a small town built in 1892, but it was in a style dating back before that at least 10 years, called "Folk Victorian." Previously to that, we lived in several rented 19th c. farmhouses of various ages and styles, all basically simple and very rustic. In addition, I have volunteered at dozens of historic house sites dating between 1763 and 1918, and my best friend's home, which I visit often, was built in 1752, then underwent a major remodeling in 1821, again in 1880, and another minor addition in 1972. I have served on historic district commissions in two states and in that capacity have been educated in architectural styles and components, and exposed to hundreds of homes. I have seen the good, the bad, and the horrible, as far as restorations go. Personally, I find that the simple, expansive, open and even arrangement of homes built in the nineteenth century, (and those lovely high ceilings!), makes the most sense for me and for my family. >From experiencing and studying all of these lovely homes, the *women's* garments are the last thing I would ever consider as affecting the architecture. (Certain pieces of furniture, perhaps, but not the houses themselves.) Rooms were large and laid out according to what made sense at the time, taking things into account such as the needs and the *number* of people who would occupy them, the flow of daily life, the current fashionable way to build homes and/or the practical means available to express it, the local climate, availability and type of fuels, and any number of other things. Low doorways, for example, hold heat inside a house or room, and have nothing to do with the height of the occupants. The size of rooms in many cases has more to do with the fact that they were expected to be multi-functional, than any current clothing fashion. It would behoove us to actually study the social structures, the local culture, the habits and idiosyncracies of the builders, and a bit about historical architecture before making any sort of generalizations as to relationships between structures and their occupants. Blessings, Susannah Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker and Fine Tailoring _www.virginvintage.com_ (http://www.virginvintage.com) "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 24 23:02:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3P32q5E000595 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:02:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3P32KLV011644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 21:02:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P32HQt078807; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 21:02:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.251]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P32Frm078783 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 21:02:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DPtrR-00077g-00; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:02:13 -0700 Message-ID: <426C5DC3.8050806@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:02:27 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Saragrace Knauf References: <426C254F.6060108@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <426C254F.6060108@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: thefrazzledfrau@yahoogroups.com, GermanRenCostume , TheRenaissanceTailor , "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: [h-cost] "real" name for Low lands Pom Pom hat? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Does anyone know the "real" name for the raised pom pom hat in this > picture? > > http://www.louvre.fr/img/photos/collec/peint/grande/rf1977.jpg > > Thanks, Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 03:35:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3P7ZSiG030436 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 03:35:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3P7YlLV000755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 01:34:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P7YYeI061229; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 01:34:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50602.mail.yahoo.com (web50602.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3P7YV8g061153 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 01:34:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 54048 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Apr 2005 07:34:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20050425073426.54046.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 03:34:26 EDT Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 03:34:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1874 Canadian dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been contacted by a potential client whom has asked for a woman's day dress, circa 1874, Ontario. Does any one out there have photographs that give me a general idea what someone in the rural (Clifford/Minto) regions of Ontario would have been wearing at the time? I realise this is rather specific in locale, but get me in the ball park and I think she'd be happy. Thanks! Kathy "The evil that men do lives after them. The good is oft interred in their bones." Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar" ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 04:29:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3P8T5Uq010569 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 04:29:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3P8SULV003664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 02:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P8SRNP096659; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 02:28:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P8SMwu096492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 02:28:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED8CDBE0D for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 04:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E3F33DDF4B for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007301c54919$d7f031a0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com><000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts><49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net><035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub> <7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:06:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) > For a project in costume construction when I was working on my MFA I had > to make a complete outfit from a historical period and I chose 1860. I > actually never quite finished it but I got the corset, hoop skirt, > petticoat, skirt and bodice made and I remember wondering, when I put it > all on myself and tried to walk around the costume shop, how anyone could > have felt comfortable in such clothing. On the contrary, one of the reasons I love Elizabethan costuming is the joy of wearing a hoop. And yes, I know that Eliz hoops are smaller than antebellum, but there is something so utterly feminine and just GIRLY feeling about a huge skirt--and it is much, much cooler than something closer fitting. I never quite understood the difficulty people have in walking or sitting in a hoop, as it always came naturally to me. YMMV, of course, but my favorite costuming periods Eliz and pre-American Civil War. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 07:53:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PBr3jF006817 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:53:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PBqJLV002141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 05:52:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PBq9d2030734; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 05:52:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PBq7BB030635 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 05:52:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A9DE1B007E; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:51:58 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.106 ([209.131.81.106] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 25 Apr 05 11:51:54 -0000 Message-ID: <000601c5498d$6ef08500$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:38:33 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] unusual picture X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3PBr3jF006817 Status: RO On a FleaJaunt yesterday, I found myself killing time while my husband was perusing yet one more pack of postcards. At hand was a box of 'instant relatives'. Among the gallery was a photo of a woman dressed in fashionable 1880's fashion...not too unusual until I realized that the trim on her skirt were bands of Raccoon fur. I was the first time I had seen garments of this period trimmed with fur...unless they were for out of doors, which this one plainly was not! And this fur certainly was not the fashionable sort favored in the '80's. Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 09:14:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PDE1Yu011839 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:14:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PDCtLV011449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:12:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PDCnUS088316; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:12:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PDCixK088176 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:12:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050425131238.HHAP28243.mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:12:38 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.153.224.20]) by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050425131237.WPMJ16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:12:37 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.10.2]); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:12:46 +1200 Message-ID: <001b01c54998$79011d60$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050425073426.54046.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1874 Canadian dress Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:12:42 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Musee McCord has a brilliant section of photos, and I've been dribbling my way through them. http://www.musee-mccord.qc.ca/en/search/ I chose Browse by concept. Then 1880 (watch these they wiggle about) then portrait then female. It may take a while, but there are hundreds of pages from the early 1860s on up. I am having trouble with it tonight, I may have a poor connection though as even the regular search form is giving me difficulties. As there are so many pages, and for a while there are pages and pages for each year, just click next (really next 10) until you are in the right sort of date region and then you can click backwards or forward page by page. Ah, I forgot that the first few pages are fairly random portraits and etchings. Pages 71 through 111 are 1870-71, and then there is a big jump to 1876, I did get one from 1874 though... Most of them are from Quebec (Montreal specifically) though, rather than Ontario. Oh terrific, there are even more after this lot... A few from 1872 are on page 425. This section is fairly random again. I'm on to page 487 and have found a bundle of brides, so I'm being side tracked... There are also many examples of the jersey costume in the collection as well (before page 200) Sorry if it doesn't help, but it's rather rare anyone asks about Canadian dress at all. Having spent many hours going through the photos I thought I might share as it's an amazing site due to the sheer number of images for many years. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com > I have been contacted by a potential client whom has > asked for a woman's day dress, circa 1874, Ontario. > Does any one out there have photographs that give me a > general idea what someone in the rural > (Clifford/Minto) regions of Ontario would have been > wearing at the time? I realise this is rather specific > in locale, but get me in the ball park and I think > she'd be happy. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 21/04/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 10:27:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PEReYE012399 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:27:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PEQKLV020222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:26:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PEQDvn047232; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:26:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PEQAc7047090 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:26:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F08FC3C6C7 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:26:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <426CFE31.6080203@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:26:57 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1874 Canadian dress References: <20050425073426.54046.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050425073426.54046.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathy Page wrote: > I have been contacted by a potential client whom has > asked for a woman's day dress, circa 1874, Ontario. Ah, look for a copy of "Women's Costume in Ontario (1867 - 1907)" by K.B. Brett and the Royal Ontario Museum/ University of Toronto, 1966. It's a 16 page booklet with B&W photos and a text overview. I can't say it is specifically rural clothing, but it is Canadian, and there are some differences in style from the American of the same period. The booklet says Ontario followed the English fashions, but New York and Boston styles also caught their eye. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 13:33:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PHXmde014216 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:33:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PHX3LV018744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PHWI5R028133; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:32:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PHWFeY027996 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:32:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so2317910wra for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:32:06 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=g6a5l14GGCbBrMuBakzw0J0M1XuJ6QQmgidRnlQMVT1xgn5Tr3VPHUNoUOB4E3emLS4/qMxtVya4zUvKTvU/Kqm9zBgSDJVv53F6gJz2hUT/BrG0y7IJBEUMtbPgBIsEjHdLdZcNMsrQVSeqLxiq5fFbr0MbG1Lb3NVgsl8/N8M= Received: by 10.54.10.6 with SMTP id 6mr2054665wrj; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.33 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c050425103216321a64@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:32:06 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hearst Castle A "Strange "place to visit In-Reply-To: <002901c5484f$c8afae20$d1d14fd1@dnyeaqvf> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050420182908.71589.qmail@web41801.mail.yahoo.com> <002901c5484f$c8afae20$d1d14fd1@dnyeaqvf> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3PHWFeY027996 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll go even farther than Margo and say that when I went in July with another costumer friend, we tended to lag behind and look as closely as we could at some of the draperies and furniture. Once our guide understood our interests, she was more than willing to give us a few asides after she had given the usual talk on each room. She seemed enthusiastic and encouraging when we asked polite and to-the-point questions, and gave us long answers to questions when we walked from one place to another. We never once felt like prisoners, more like invited guests. I can't wait go to back! LynnD On 4/23/05, lists@margospatterns.com wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Melody Watts" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:29 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hearst Castle A "Strange "place to visit > > > You are like a "polite prisoner" there, > > Oh, I didn't think it was that bad...Of course I didn't try to touch > anything, but they didn't mind that when everyone else was staring at the > ceiling in the dining room, I was down on my knees staring at the fabric on > the chair backs. > > I went with a friend who had been there previously with his then girlfriend, > and he was quite amused that I noticed all the same things she did...and > they weren't what the guides were pointing out. :) > > Margo > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 13:55:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PHtdNc014393 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:55:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PHsrLV021593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:54:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PHslPE050377; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:54:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41821.mail.yahoo.com (web41821.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.94.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3PHsTjM050056 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:54:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 17123 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Apr 2005 17:54:23 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=2mnEOJQYIB5+15Bxxh2pIIss35SNOeEYrFs6X4nBoFJB5GAbIvZDb9RMJrV0V1s8+/6jR30vf+JF/kmzyAMvpOW9pJL0yYm7xaHjGrfWhybWXvkicyS4DF0dVL01yTCs0XK7Iv1HzVrqhtHaOdhfoCPn3tPD5bIF2u8Dg457oj8= ; Message-ID: <20050425175423.17121.qmail@web41821.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41821.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:54:18 PDT Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:54:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hearst Castle A "Strange "place to visit To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lucky you .I happened to have the two retired Secret service guys....not interested in fabric questions at all.... --- Lynn Downward wrote: > I'll go even farther than Margo and say that when I > went in July with > another costumer friend, we tended to lag behind and > look as closely > as we could at some of the draperies and furniture. > Once our guide > understood our interests, she was more than willing > to give us a few > asides after she had given the usual talk on each > room. She seemed > enthusiastic and encouraging when we asked polite > and to-the-point > questions, and gave us long answers to questions > when we walked from > one place to another. We never once felt like > prisoners, more like > invited guests. I can't wait go to back! > > LynnD > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 14:05:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PI5Pkm014565 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:05:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PI4pLV022840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:04:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PI4Ref060076; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:04:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41828.mail.yahoo.com (web41828.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.94.162]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3PI4OKx059961 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:04:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 68500 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Apr 2005 18:04:19 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=MawXjyybe5ddUHl+pzIrKOPNKHv89vrwedxx+2875X3iSvN4UdLkaBuV8TX2y3WOM9fni9KlOvgawLpn3Jp2VhGQDp+3fWUmlZcYJujLw3TPOIV0WodLnQT8IejhSEzI3cLOaKMbBjeAXDP87hvBmn3cpVQ80sibfFOEvLWoplA= ; Message-ID: <20050425180419.68498.qmail@web41828.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41828.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:04:18 PDT Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:04:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] "real" name for Low lands Pom Pom hat? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm.... I guess "Silly hat" isn't the term you're looking for.....:~) Melody --- Wicked Frau wrote: > > Does anyone know the "real" name for the raised > pom pom hat in this > > picture? > > > > > http://www.louvre.fr/img/photos/collec/peint/grande/rf1977.jpg > > > > Thanks, Sg > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 14:25:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PIPubK014757 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:25:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PIP0MJ025716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PIHhq4072101; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:17:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PIHdfX071905 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:17:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.107]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050425181731.VNXB19201.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:17:31 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050425131346.029ebc80@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:17:25 -0500 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's a bit early (due out in early 2006) but I thought that some of you might be interested: Beth Cloth and Clothing in Anglo-Saxon England, AD 450-700 by Penelope Rogers This archaeological study of Anglo-Saxon textiles and decoration is based on the first exhaustive study of dress evidence from early medieval cemeteries. The book focuses on both clothing and jewelry and seeks to establish an evidence-based re-evaluation of the wider cultural and social significance of dress in Anglo-Saxon England. The material brings together the author's own primary research and database findings, as well as broader historical and archaeological work on textiles, dress fasteners, and craft and production evidence from Britain and the Continent. The book will be fully illustrated with reconstruction drawings and detailed finds drawings. 250p, 100 illus. (Council for British Archaeology 2005) ISBN 1902771540. Paperback. Not yet published - advance orders taken. Publishers price US $39.95, DBBC Price US $32.00 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 14:30:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PIUgfQ014786 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:30:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PIU9LV026428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:30:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PIU64e084786; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:30:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41808.mail.yahoo.com (web41808.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3PIU4mI084640 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:30:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 79531 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Apr 2005 18:29:59 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=f5Iiu8wWS6q/GtWB6+XsP6vxoSCBIgMlt2MPJn8AB7cD8U0s+gcyGbT+MmpoSvr4Ts6FojQeZNBuhx19eIn9RKjdvmaG1iEYFO+mjXcf+uI0O6HPYDNWZWv8bb5aqXnsQCkhEb+XSQk3naQ99lTNtep5SvqguktSzQOQ29WjLFw= ; Message-ID: <20050425182959.79529.qmail@web41808.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41808.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:29:59 PDT Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:29:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re:New Simplicity To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember seeing in a book on lady Civil War spies, one woman's photo showed her wearing a summer frock. It was made of an airy material, in a plaid like pattern, it was in fact, so sheer you could see thru it to the under garments she was wearing. Her toddler girl was wearing a similar dress. I didn't imagine them having such light weight materials available,let alone wearing them....and she was a "respectable matron" of the community...except for the spying thing...... Melody --- Carolann Schmitt wrote: > > While fashions from this era may look very heavy to > wear, if they are made in appropriate weight fabrics they usually are not. > Many of the fabrics used during the period are very lightweight. As part of a presentation, I did a > comparison of the weights of original garments, > reproduction garments using comparable weight fabrics, and reproduction garments using inappropriate > weight fabrics, i.e. drapery or upholstery fabrics. > Several original silk taffeta dresses weighed a little less than a pound; > the reproductions using comparable fabrics and linings weighed within an ounce of the originals; > reproductions using a drapery fabrics weighed from > five to eight pounds. > > Carolann Schmitt > cschmitt@genteelarts.com > www.genteelarts.com > Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March > 2-5, 2006 > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 15:10:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PJAKcU015080 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:10:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PJ9dLV000781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:09:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PJ9Uw9023049; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:09:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PJ9PJY022888 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:09:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1171285nzp for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:09:17 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=SZ9srBDH1zp73U9RxdFCB69dX5++5E0/AnI+JqgOVQkUTbnTv/oSNsE6EMjWZTVYGKDXWYy8NvuXA2/eWkzi25UnucSgYj1NzRHAUAPOQEdSJaZEOItEFtikelYJ+kibqsx9kfVjZ5dNjq0IeNOzrj3xJapc3WMc+FK9EESBeJA= Received: by 10.36.61.11 with SMTP id j11mr525938nza; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.3 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:09:17 -0700 From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504221802.j3MI1gsv032970@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <200504221802.j3MI1gsv032970@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3PJ9PJY022888 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 15th c French clothing books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Someone just asked about the 16th c in France, I'm interested in the 15th, so apropos of nothing, here goes: I just bought "Brocartes Celestes" at the Petit Palais in Avignon last Thurs. It's entire focus is comparing 15th French and Italian brocade, velvet & damask weaves with their representations in contemporary painting. The authors are Ester Moench, conservateur du Petit Palais and Odile Blanc who works for the Musee de Tissue in Lyon. Pub'd in 1999, possibly only in French. The Petit Palais specializes in 13th-15th c French & Italian paintings. Sadly there was no complete color catalog of the paintings in the museum, but there were some nice, if very small postcards. Terrific exhibit! Unlike many museums, the works are hung in good lighting. Helpful staff answers questions! One of my personal pet peeves in costume recreation for this period is the use of modern upholstery weights. This is clearly not in keeping with the extant materials in collections at the Musee Cluny, Musee de Tissue in Lyon, Musee de la Mode et du Costume (at the Louvre) or the Musee de la Mode (at the Union Central des Arts Decoratifs.) Most of these museums have thorough catalogs of actual materials and some garments (usually partials, burial garments), some even have catalogs online. Somewhat broader in scope, but again connecting material culture (pun intended) to fine art, "Parades et Parures" by Odile Blanc of Musee de Tissue fame. "Se vetir au Moyen Age" by Francoise Piponnier and Perrine Mane is scholarly, quite thorough and heavily researched detailing the what, where, when, who and what to wear in 14th & 15th c France and nearby regions (the nearby regions including those that make up present day France). I've heard this is also in English, but dont know what the title is. If anyone knows of other books, costume colllections, exhibit catalogs & materials that cover French costume design & construction for high-end fashions of 15th c in France, I'd love to hear about them. a toute a l'heure, --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 15:37:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PJbkeG015277 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:37:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PJbDLV004127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:37:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PJb0JD050242; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:37:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3PJaoUH050003 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:36:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2005 19:36:37 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050425203122.014d2060@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:36:37 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th c French clothing books In-Reply-To: References: <200504221802.j3MI1gsv032970@net.indra.com> <200504221802.j3MI1gsv032970@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >"Se vetir au Moyen Age" by Francoise Piponnier and Perrine Mane is >scholarly, quite thorough and heavily researched detailing the what, >where, when, who and what to wear in 14th & 15th c France and nearby >regions (the nearby regions including those that make up present day >France). I've heard this is also in English, but dont know what the >title is. I have this in English. It is a small paperback book, "Dress in the Middle Ages". I found it difficult to read and to see the black and white pictures as it was small. Mary Houston wrote a book, which I have but can't find, on clothing in the Middle Ages in England and France with loads of manuscript references and a few diagrams. Sorry I cannot be more specific. (Originally published by A and C Black! - I can remember that but not the title!!) (Medieval Costume in England and France?) Suzi, who is up to her neck in ruffs right now! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 15:44:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PJiP32015315 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:44:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PJhlLV004862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:43:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PJhd2S056299; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:43:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MFQLC1079578 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:26:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.112] (206-124-5-112.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.112]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3MFNfm22027 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:23:42 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <20050422151613.25542.qmail@web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050422151613.25542.qmail@web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:34:29 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1500s France, Italy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know of any good books that deal with sixteenth century women's dress style and construction from France and italy? Not England. I have enough of those already. I know the similarities, but want to get more detail of the differences. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 15:46:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PJkTav015334 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:46:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PJjiLV005027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:45:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PJjGME057807; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:45:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MGbpli048125 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:37:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82A13C6AF for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:37:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42692866.7060000@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:37:58 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:New Simplicity References: <20050422151613.25542.qmail@web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050422151613.25542.qmail@web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mia Dappert wrote: > The new Simplicity is very graceful, very pretty. It put me in mind of the dresses Suan Sarandon wore in the latest version of Little Women > > I can't to see the Rev War. things Speaking of Simplicity... they just discontinued over a dozen of their costume patterns, not just the American Civil War ones, either. A lot of them were less than a year old. So, when you see new patterns that you like, grab them. They may be gone before you realize it. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 15:47:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PJldJo015354 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:47:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PJl6LV005241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:47:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PJl3Tg059517; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:47:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3MK012O039775 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:00:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MJxxck025161 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:00:00 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.90.255] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-90-255.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.90.255]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MJxuRK070938 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:00:00 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050422125915.026633e8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:59:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: good weight for linings? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20050422124858.0265bff8@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >Newbie question here: Is 5 oz. linen too heavy for use as a lining > > fabric? > > > > I don't know these things by numbers, but I'd go with something the > > weight of a man's shirt. This is the same weight as the stuff usually > > sold to quilters, or as a nice bedsheet. > >If you're looking for a structural lining, e.g. for a fitted 14th-15th c. >dress that molds the figure, I'd go for suit weight rather than shirt >weight. Works fine even under a slightly lighter-weight wool. Is suit weight the same as trousers weight? Inquiring minds want to know. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 15:58:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PJwGoP015409 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:58:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PJvTLV006617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:57:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PJvJ6Z068766; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:57:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3MNYH33029087 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:34:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-23974); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:34:13 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:34:09 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050422163159.00d9d6f0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:34:01 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: good weight for linings? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050422134355.02649e90@mail.frys.com> References: <4.2.2.20050422130140.00dd8500@pop.surewest.net> <070b01c54770$26a39090$e7627dc7@MICHELLE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From the description of the intended garments, the lining should hold up fine. She would be wearing a shift under the gown, so the lining would not be directly in contact with the skin. Joan At 01:47 PM 4/22/2005 -0700, you wrote: >>I would recommend a lighter fabric for the lining than for the outer >>fabric. With tropical-weight wool, I *would* use hanky weight linen for >>lining. >>Joan in Sacramento, CA (very hot summers ) > >How well does hanky weight lining hold up to heavy wear, like for a Ren. >Faire? I found that I wore right thru my hanky weight Ren. shirts after >like one Faire season of use, and that includes changing shirts each day. > > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:12:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKCasK015491 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:12:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKBcLV009335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:11:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKBVkY083445; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:11:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3O3Wa5U057388 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:32:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-217-58-231.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.217.58.231]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3O3W1A4015187 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:32:22 +1000 Message-ID: <003801c5487e$18c0e0e0$e73ad9cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com><4.3.1.2.20050411225109.032f1420@mail.frys.com><4.3.1.2.20050412141603.024f0fa0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050419213558.035eae70@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:29:11 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan shirt question (long-ish) > > >http://www.tudor-portraits.com/HelenaSnakeborg.jpg > > Remember that there are two sets of threads at right angles to each other, > the warp and the weft. If you gather the whole top of the body tube into > the neck hole then one set of threads goes around the neck in concentric > circles, like the flowers in the Snakeborg portrait do, and the other set > of threads radiates from the neck seam, like the Pelican portrait's gold > lines do. So the lines of decoration depend on which set of threads they > follow. No the angle of the both sets of threads changes as you go around the neck, the threads that run parallel to the straight edge that you've gathered in make a circle therefore at the front and back of the neck they are running across your body, above your shoulder they are running from front to back. the threads that are at right angles to the straight edge will radiate out so they are always at right angles to the neck. Whichever way the pattern was oriented on the flat piece of fabric the angle of the pattern would change with the angle of the underlying threads once the straight line (the edge of the fabric) gets turned into a circle that goes around the neck. Does that make sense? Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole@iimetro.com.au Mr. Speaker, I said the honourable member was a liar it is true and I am sorry for it. The honourable member may place the punctuation where he pleases. Richard Brinsley Sheridan (1751-1816) British dramatist. On being asked to apologise for calling a fellow MP a liar. Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:21:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKLmrL015575 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:21:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKHfLV010469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:17:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKHZ4P089881; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:17:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OKPYfL028832 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:25:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OKPVck013804 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:25:32 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.90.255] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-90-255.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.90.255]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OKPRRM106110 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:25:33 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050424132011.0266d9c8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:25:21 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Julie Taymor In-Reply-To: <005601c54902$886a0960$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> References: <9ef56360c10f35ccc51e8b95992b9d95@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Her most famous work is the costume designer for Broadway's The Lion King. >A couple of years ago, there was a traveling exhibit of her costumes from >various plays that she had designed. I saw the Washington DC exhibit.... >WOW!!!!!!!!!! One of my all-time favorite exhibits. Have you seen the >book written by Julie called The Lion King? The play's costumes are shown >in detail in the book. I second the WOW!!!!!!!!!! The book includes many close-ups of things like the masks and puppetry involved. It's amazing stuff, and mostly low tech like you could make in your kitchen without ventilation. Actually there are two books, and I have them both. The other one is a little kiddy book, but at kiddy book prices I got it for the few pictures that weren't in the big book. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:23:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKN7TQ015582 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:23:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKDcLV009632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKDbRm085531; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:13:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3O4bLVb098100 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 22:37:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-217-58-231.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.217.58.231]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3O4b6s4017959 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:37:12 +1000 Message-ID: <005d01c54887$26301f80$e73ad9cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "historic costume" Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:36:07 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for a portrait X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, I've been reading Herbert Norris' Tudor book and I've come across a description of a portrait that I haven't seen before. I'll quote the description in case somebody knows where I can find a picture. "In the Ashmolean Museum, Oxford, is a three-quarter-length portrait said to be the Princess Mary, attributed to Jean van Cleef, and painted (according to an expert) in the year 1537. ... [she] is dressed in bodice, sleeves, and skirt of black velvet... The sleeves are not so large as usual... lined with crimson satin and edged with a narrow band of ermine. The sleeves are turned back to just above the elbow level, revealing the false sleeves of gold brocade." I've skipped some of the description as I didn't want to, I looked on the Ashmolean Museum's website and I can't find a portrait matching that description, does anybody know if parts of their collection were lost/destroyed during WW2 or something though for a British museum in the midlands it seems unlikely (or maybe it's been sold to another museum since 1938 when this book was published) I'd just really like to see these satin lined sleeves that are edged with fur, it sounds odd for this period. A web search also fails to turn up any mention of a Jean van Cleef as a 16th century artist. Does anybody have any clue as to what Norris is talking about? thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole@iimetro.com.au Mr. Speaker, I said the honourable member was a liar it is true and I am sorry for it. The honourable member may place the punctuation where he pleases. Richard Brinsley Sheridan (1751-1816) British dramatist. On being asked to apologise for calling a fellow MP a liar. Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:25:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKPJoE015604 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:25:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKMELV011030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKMC8I094692; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:22:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.primushost.com (smtp3.primushost.com [209.58.220.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PF2Bx9079698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:02:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp3.primushost.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim) id 1DQ562-0002ID-2t; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:02:02 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1DQ56n-000018-00; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:02:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:02:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric organization In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050420111843.014cfe90@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 20 Apr 2005, Suzi Clarke wrote: > >Oh, I know where everything is that I am likely to use - linings, >buttons, threads, interfacings etc. They are all filed and labelled. It's >the left overs that are a pain - I cannot throw anything away, in case it >might come in handy!! I've come up with a pretty good way of keeping all those scraps and trims from projects that might be needed in the future for alterations or repairs. While working on an item, I keep a 2 1/2 gallon zippered ziploc bag at the ready, and all scraps get tossed in there, along with any leftover trims and whatever else goes with the project. It is great when years later a customer comes back needing repairs and I can find (well, with a bit of searching) the bag with everything in it ready to go. The bags are also useful when travelling with a sewing project as everything can be stuffed in and kept together. I also use them when travelling with my costumes, say for a week's worth of costumes, I can have several ziplocs, each with the accessories for an outfit. Has saved my life several times when rushing to get ready for a ball at Newport Dance Week. I am ready to send out an S.O.S. to all my friends to help me regain my sewing room (the attic) after 8 years of neglect and use as a junk room since I moved my sewing downstairs to be near the boys after they were born. I really need to empty the room completely and then organize, can't do it with everything in place, there's no place to move up there. Ugh. Katy Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:26:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKQ4IB015611 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:26:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKPWLV011395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:25:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKPSr1097749; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:25:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53310.mail.yahoo.com (web53310.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.239]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3PFOQeS000899 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:24:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jauncourt@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 59099 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Apr 2005 15:24:21 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=gCOEELSE2M3f2qFYXW75ARPUOZS7VZXhtvbIdytgzUolUMl/joDU7bjQ39V+IwOqtaKOH4HZu4p5MzjGpYSNjqM12i8+kVkhO3rsKuUf11okysw1ZozDV5ldkhyp7vwi0PznfLeDBN/2WD8liO+RcisvWfz4PzDPvngVPkopiAk= ; Message-ID: <20050425152421.59097.qmail@web53310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.245.82.12] by web53310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:24:21 PDT Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:24:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Branwyn Maura To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504242100.j3OKxjHp051695@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/851/Sun Apr 24 19:19:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sylvia Rognstad wrote: >>Does anyone know what mid 19th century houses were like? Well, our house was built in or just before 1857, in the Federal style, and the bedrooms are 20x20 feet, while the main room's segments (Formerly divisible, but the folding doors were pulled out in the 1930's - we still have one) are 20x30 and 20x20, respectively. The study, which is now my grandmother's bedroom, is also 20x20, and has its own door to the back garden. The kitchen is very large, and we know that the summer kitchen (a seperate building) was about the same size, with plenty of room to move about in voluminous skirts. All the doors (and windows, except for a couple of 'single shutter' narrow ones on the side of the house) in this house are 4 feet wide, or more, in the cases fo the main exterior doors. The ceilings are very high, as well, at about 15 feet. In the mid-19th century, most larger homes were still furnished along the lines of large homes during the 18th century - if not in furniture style, then in basic plan, with much of the furniture around the edges of the room. I've also worked as a costumed interpreter in a frontier home in California that was built in 1860. It, while certainly more modest in proportion, still had rooms large enough to move through in an everyday 1850's/1860's hoop (hoops were rounder and wider in the late 50's than in the early to mid-60's, when they were already metamorphosing into the bustle). Its ceilings were lower, about 10 feet. Some things to remember: Furniture was smaller then, and there were no large, overstuffed sofas yet. Chairs for ladies and men can be told apart by whether they have arms (Have you tried sitting in a chair with arms in a hoop? Doesn't work!). If less affluent people had smaller homes, they also had less furniture, and wore less fashonable clothing (if a poorer woman widened her skirts, it was more likely that she wore several petticoats in the old fashioned - 1830's and 1840's- manner, rather than hoops). I hoep this has answered some of your questions! Maura __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:28:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKSNdU015650 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:28:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKRwLV011792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:27:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKRvlT000380; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:27:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PIGWRF070990 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:16:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from camelothorse@earthlink.net) Message-Id: <200504251816.j3PIGWRF070990@net.indra.com> Received: from [4.230.93.184] (helo=camelot01) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DQ88E-0007s5-9C for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:16:31 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Organization:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:Thread-Index; b=CXUI+srk63ckVCNzgyRcTPozR5OaNSx8FmU0sRD13XJSknCMVrxvYlZfWsdj79kS; From: "Diane Maynard" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:16:31 -0500 Organization: Camelot Horse Center MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcVJwufh1HkMO8a/TA6NJhGvlOujtQ== X-ELNK-Trace: 7d3e56efc2551607917237dadff7bf594d2b10475b571120ec1d3537439742f09d03f3bf695697eeb155c65a34cf6d6d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.230.93.184 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone received any emails on the list since 4/18 or is the list really this quiet ? Diane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:28:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKSZK4015653 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:28:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKRjLV011723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:27:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKRiNI000126; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:27:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41801.mail.yahoo.com (web41801.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.135]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3PI2SAF058110 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:02:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 60978 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Apr 2005 18:02:23 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=dtLsLavL0Uyw6T4wCmBDC9hsfc0/lOdLsXPIM54i0XMP/O+Zie26cLLZ05voxrYlJhhnp5jeJodqyLD2kequ2dB1rEG4rRPDOXaS+kea6O3bd2UowUi7poG7RtinbHzRKS+VFSER9O/F8qpTs5VJQ1gMu1Kv2t+e96A7OVQ5iRs= ; Message-ID: <20050425180223.60976.qmail@web41801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41801.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:02:23 PDT Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:02:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] unusual picture....unusual term To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is so funny! I thought I was the only one who thought of these old pix as "instant relatives" I have bought a few,..women,young men in uniforms and babies...I'd like to set them out in a basket as a "decor" piece in my (someday) VIctorian inspired bedroom. (I'm going to be sure to mark the backs as "not related,decor item only") so when I kick it the kids won't think these peole are related some how to the family and confuse them. Melody Snipped --- Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > On a FleaJaunt yesterday, I found myself killing > time while my husband was perusing yet one more pack > of postcards. At hand was a box of 'instant > relatives'. ...... > > Kathleen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:28:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKSd78015656 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:28:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKSJLV011853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:28:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKSJlK000773; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:28:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PIJfcM074090 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:19:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kiloran@worldnet.att.net) Received: from sharplaptop.worldnet.att.net (h-67-101-239-187.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net[67.101.239.187]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2005042518200111100147hje>; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:20:01 +0000 Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20050425110626.0201a378@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:19:28 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net In-Reply-To: <200504251800.j3PI0Cq2055854@net.indra.com> References: <200504251800.j3PI0Cq2055854@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New Simplicity Martha McCain pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just got the newest Simplicity pattern designed by Martha McCain. It's pattern number 4551 and is a simple Civil War era dress with a modified fan front and three different sleeve treatments, one of which is very reminiscent of the1830's in style. I have a question for anyone who has looked at this pattern - what is the model wearing under her skirts? If it's a hoop, it's a pretty small one, and definitely NOT either of the hoops in earlier Martha McCain patterns. If it's petticoats, how many and what style? While I certainly have enough petticoats in my wardrobe to properly support this dress, I'd like to know what the designer intended, how she intended the dress to be worn. There's nothing referenced anywhere in the pattern instructions about undergarments and I didn't see another pattern for petticoats on the Simplicity website Oh, and one other thing - there's no skirt circumference measurement anywhere on the pattern, that I can see, at least. I've emailed simplicity.com about this, but in the meantime if anyone knows what that measurement is, I'd appreciate the info. Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:29:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKT4GI015660 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKSdLV011946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:28:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKSZAp000999; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:28:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PILR3L076101 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:21:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A52122C006C; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:21:21 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.105 ([209.131.81.105] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 25 Apr 05 18:21:18 -0000 Message-ID: <001401c549c3$d4d36000$695183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:23:07 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Piecework contribs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3PKT4GI015660 Status: RO I just got my May-June issue of "Piecework" and there are at least two presentations that might be of interest to those who do 16th-17th Centuries. One article focuses on a wedding suit for Johann Georg I of Saxony, 1585-1656. . Another deals with State Bed hangings of Osterley Park House. A third speaks of English wedding knives and their Embroidered Sheaths. Enjoy! Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:30:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKUcXH015672 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:30:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKRlOf011731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKJNoQ091685; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:19:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P0e8ke096970 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:40:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.1db.3a605f3a (3940) for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:39:52 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1db.3a605f3a.2f9d9658@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:39:52 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-Magic Flute To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/24/2005 7:06:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: think you just said it. When the visuals overwhelm the substance, that's where you draw the line. And it takes good designers and directors to figure that out. Now if the designer in this case, Ms. Taymore, is also the director, I can see how the problem arises. But there is no problem here. There is nothing in these designs that are gratuitous or over done. Everything arises out of the story and music which is about mysticism and dark vs light. But it is, as I said, not subtle. It is new and striking. Y'know, the same complaint was ever-present 30 years ago when Ponnelle and Zeffirelli did their productions in the 70s & 80s that brought, like, stage...as in plays...drama and action as well as scenery and costume to the "just stand there and sing" world of opera. "Eurotrash"....as it has been called even though it is most certainly not exclusive to Europe...arises when you have like midgets jumping on trampolines in "Le Nozzi di Figaro" for no apparent reason or Nazis with dogs in "Der Rosenkavalier" which is just stretching it too far. None of that is here. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:30:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKUZLE015669 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:30:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKRlOd011731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKIgrs091003; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:18:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OMJ6Ph004802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:19:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-233.sonic.net [209.148.113.233]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OMJ4GP009564 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:19:05 -0700 Message-ID: <426C1B5A.5070500@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:19:06 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Videos of costume dramas for sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been amassing a big collection of DVDs and videos. There are some I don't want to keep; I have way too much stuff around here. Some I don't want to see again, some I replaced with other formats. Most are costume dramas, a few are historical/informational, a few are fantasy. I don't have time to make a list of them all, or list them with details (date, actors, etc; but there are places on the net to look up that info). There are also a couple books on tape my husband bought to listen to while commuting. I listed the titles and very brief information for a couple of dozen of these items in a file. I can email the file to anyone who requests it. Prices will be based on the going used, non-eBay rates for that film in that condition (most I bought new and viewed once). Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:30:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKUlOG015678 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:30:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKRlOl011731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:30:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKIJii090610; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:18:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3OKxgVH051655 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:59:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OKxdck011717 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:59:40 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.90.255] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-90-255.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.90.255]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3OKxZlt204194 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:59:41 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050424135307.025d0f98@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:59:28 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) In-Reply-To: <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com> <000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My mother's mother was born in 1880, and sometime in the like late 1960s-early 1970s she showed me how to walk in a long skirt. This was when Maxi skirts were new. She said modern women didn't know how to walk in long skirts, and walked across the floor kicking an imaginary Maxi skirt out of the way. (She never wore a skirt shorter than mid-calf.) She said one had to glide, "like this" - and she did it so I could see. The balls of her feet touched the floor before her heels did, and she could have carried the proverbial book on her head with out it falling off. She didn't bounce at all, but moved around like she was on wheels. Interestingly enough, there's a story about her husband, my grandfather, born in like 1864, who didn't realize till he was three that his mother had feet under her skirts. >> Also, I think we expect the clothes will be heavy because of the >>circumferece of the skirts. Hoops are also fairly light. The trick >>is to be able to move gracefully in the clothes, so they don't end up >>bouncing around, the skirts swinging like a bell, etc. > > >I can't remember which novel it was--I read it years and years and years >ago--but in a novel written in the 1880s there was a really interesting >bit of conversation between a young woman and her older relative. The >younger woman was looking at a picture of her older relative in 1850s or >60s clothing and exclaimed that it must have been very difficult to get >around in that huge thing. The older woman replied that on the contrary, >she missed those fashions horribly, because they were so airy and light, >and she could skip along so easily with her legs completely >unencumbered. She went on to complain about how horribly restrictive and >unhygienic the early 1880s fashions were, with their tight skirts and long >trains picking up dirt everywhere they went. That conversation stuck in >my head so much that for years afterwards I'd think about it every time I >saw anything from the 1880s, and that I actually lost a good bit of my >interest in recreating anything from that era! CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:30:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKUmYs015679 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:30:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKRlOj011731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKJkAZ092085; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:19:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:S284YTq1yZsJMCcR8EcWqhQFMXeyW/zE@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P1g9qu037488 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 19:42:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j3P1g4pS024773 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 21:42:04 -0400 Received: from pool180-207.patriot.net ([209.249.180.207]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 21:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49156.209.249.180.207.1114393324.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <426C3CAB.6080404@lavoltapress.com> References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com><000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub><7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> <426C0D0E.50201@lavoltapress.com><49166.209.249.180.16.1114383209.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <426C3CAB.6080404@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 21:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also for city living, the homes of the wealthy were large, with large doorways in the "public" areas - they are the ones who would entertain. It's conspicuous consumption, of course, and also when hosting a formal event you want people to be able to circulate. Most museum/historic houses open for tours are those that belonged to a wealthy person. I've seen 18thC houses that were made into museums, and houses with historic markers that are private residences. I tend to notice 18thC rather than early 19thC. Doorways seem to be normal size in the town houses (the really wide court panniers were not everyday wear) and the houses existed (and I assume occupied) through the 19thC. I've also been in apartments that are from some earlier era (19thC). Usually I notice when the kichen is really tiny, but again hadn't noticed any particularly wide doors. I'll have to keep this more in mind when I'm in houses, too look out for the sizes of rooms and doorways depending on the era. -Carol > I agree that although people did do remodeling, it was not necessarily > to accomodate their clothes. However, architectural styles also change. > Do you find early 19th-century rooms to be smaller than mid-century ones? > > Note that urban versus city living has a strong effect on house size. > In the country, where land is more available, people tended as a very > general rule to build bigger houses. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:30:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKUjnf015675 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:30:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKRlOh011731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:30:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKJach091893; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:19:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3P16qbc014675 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 19:06:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.167] (pm5-167.eos.net [205.133.149.167]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j3P16lVQ008401 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 21:06:48 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:59:04 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200504242059.j3OKxjHo051695@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: hoopskirts and comfort X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sylrog: I used to be in a historic dance troupe, and one of our periods was the 1860s. I not only wore a chemise, corset, hoop skirt, petticoat, and gown, but I danced in them quite vigorously. They were very comfortable, in some ways more comfortable than modern clothes (give me a good corset over a pair of tight jeans any day). I don't know why you'd think it's impossible to walk through modern doorways in a hoopskirt. I did it all the time. My gown was made of light Indian cotton, because it was a test for the pattern and I never made a "real" one. But most of the women in the group had gowns made of light silk, and they weighed NOTHING. One woman even had a gorgeous full petticoat that was ALL ruffles, maybe three or four inches wide. It didn't weigh anything either... I live in a neighborhood with many old houses, and many of them do have very big rooms, though not a lot of rooms. Also, I lived in two dorms that had been dorms for a women's college in the 1860s. The hallways were huge, and so were all the doors in the common areas. (The dorm rooms were small, barely enough for two single beds and two small desks, and their doors were normal-sized.) We were always told that the hallways and big doorways were wide to accommodate the hoop skirts. I don't know if that's true, but it certainly makes a lot of sense when you imagine a few dozen young women in hoop skirts walking around at the same time. Gail Finke (in Cincinnati, Ohio) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:30:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKUxCU015684 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:30:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKRlOb011731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:30:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKJEIk091521; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:19:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web81402.mail.yahoo.com (web81402.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3P0Ml4w086062 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:22:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garbaholic@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20050425002241.5706.qmail@web81402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.152.233.204] by web81402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:22:41 PDT X-RocketYMMF: cybalshouse Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:22:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Doyle Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Does anyone know what mid 19th century houses were like? >What about those of more modest incomes but whose women still would >have worn hoops? > > I grew up in Northern Indiana, in a farm house that while I don't know if we dated the house, I do remember it was determined that the barn was built in 1868, so we believed that the house was built sometime in the 1860s. The rooms of the original house were all easily 15 x 15, some were larger. Doorways were probably 36 inch doors, interior and exterior. Now did anyone wear hoops who lived in that house? I really don't know, but I do remember the newspaper article that was found during remodeling that detailed a family making the big trip to the new town over for a visit with family. That town was about fifteen, twenty miles away. Alexandria _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:47:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKlLUK016090 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:47:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKkXLV014370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:46:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKk7Pc017805; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:46:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKjWwk017278 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:45:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0956D3C178 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:45:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p239.socket.net [64.85.214.241]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9EA4DD3FF for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:45:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] test Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:45:43 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <200504251816.j3PIGWRF070990@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO yes. recieved some 4/22 on hoops and comfort. De -----Original Message----- Has anyone received any emails on the list since 4/18 or is the list really this quiet ? Diane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:50:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKogIC016121 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:50:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKoKLV014867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKoAPa021532; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:50:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKnh3w021167 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:50:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.57.80] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DQAWU-0007Sp-6q for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:49:43 -0400 Message-ID: <01c001c549d8$4b9337b0$fd159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005d01c54887$26301f80$e73ad9cb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a portrait Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:49:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b4c7b48480f6252fa4ecd48e0ecf320a5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.80 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The artist you're probably looking for is Joos van Cleve (Jean van Cleef would be a French apporximation), Flemish, 1485-1540CE. Several of his portraits are available on-line at Web Gallery of Art, CGFA, and Insecula, but none of the Princess Mary. Also try the Altavista search engine for Joos van Cleve in the image section, and get lots more. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 16:55:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PKtGNC016147 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:55:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PKskLV015334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:54:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKse8c025813; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:54:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PKscCd025680 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:54:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005042520543201100eta9ce>; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:54:32 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c549d8$faf793e0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <9ef56360c10f35ccc51e8b95992b9d95@ntw.net> <4.3.1.2.20050424132011.0266d9c8@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Julie Taymor Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:52:35 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kayta, Did you see her exhibit. I know it went to Chicago after it left DC. I don't know where it went after Chicago. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 17:27:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PLRe9T016417 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:27:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PLQoLV019796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:26:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PLQdco055794; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:26:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PLQZMe055722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:26:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-56.sonic.net [209.148.114.56]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PLQXkO017869 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:26:34 -0700 Message-ID: <426D608C.8080009@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:26:36 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hoopskirts and comfort References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >\ > >I used to be in a historic dance troupe, and one of our periods was the >1860s. I not only wore a chemise, corset, hoop skirt, petticoat, and gown, >but I danced in them quite vigorously. They were very comfortable, in some >ways more comfortable than modern clothes (give me a good corset over a pair >of tight jeans any day). > I've done years of Victorian dance too. Yes, it is perfectly feasible to dance vigorously for hours in an "accurate" hoopskirt outfit, without undue discomfort. It's perfectly feasible to move through doorways and navigate a room without running into the furniture. It's perfectly possible to dance for hours in a relatively heavy original 1880s trained bustle dress. However, it's even easier to dance vigorously in a T-shirt (or tank top or leotard) and a lightweight modern skirt. Un-PC as it is to say among reenactors, as a general rule women's modern (1920s and later) clothing _is_ more comfortable and easier to manage. I'd except some periods--the early 19th century isn't bad, for example. But by and large, well, modern clothing is lighter, and more easily managed. Even by someone who has studied movement. I am perfectly aware that, aside from dress reform advocates and some people who had health problems, most women were comfortable in their clothes. I am perfectly aware that women had practical reasons for wearing bulkier clothing, related to things like the lack of central heating and the nonexistence of certain modern textiles. I am perfectly aware that different periods have different aesthetics. I share many of them--a crinoline ballgown looks more appealing to me than a T-shirt and a modern dance skirt. I am perfectly aware that there are many very complicated social issues that affect what people wear (and the houses they build). I have a degree in history, and I've been studying historic costume since I was a teenager. I'm perfectly aware that some modern clothes are distinctly impractical and/or uncomfortable. (High spike heels spring to mind--I used to wear them myself, and was quite used to them, but last time I tried them on I wondered how I ever managed to endure them all day.) But heck, I've made, collected, and worn enough historic garments for enough years to forget about saying "I"ve worn corsets, crinoline skirts, long trains, and many other things, managed them pefectly well, and was not uncomfortable"--which is true--and move on to saying, "Yes, but a T-shirt and a long skirt or jeans is more comfortable." Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com If you want a list of costume drama films and some books I'm deaccessing, feel free to email _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 17:35:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PLYxR6016503 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:35:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PLY7LV021362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:34:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PLY3UZ062683; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:34:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3PLXuVV062445 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:34:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail22.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.162]) by smtpout03.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBG42T2A6R9JJJ for (sender ); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:33:44 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7/UdTYgd7yFKsB77IK2k5KYPIYBr/R1j6Q== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail22.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KRGBJBAN; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:33:31 PDT Received: from [24.14.7.158] by webmail22.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:33:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.7.158] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" X-UOL-SENDER: penhalion@juno.com Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:33:27 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050425.143331.5403.528412@webmail22.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:2:2665766492 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think alot of what we perceive as comfort is actually just what we are used to. I have been wearing period clothing (18th century originally) since I was 15 and am quite comfortable in a variety of long skirt variations as well as modern clothing. My grandmother was born in 1891 and to her dying day never wore pants. She told me that she wore pants a couple of times as a girl to play tricks at Halloween, but she just never felt comfortable (Physically? Psychologically? She died before I thought to ask her.) in them even after they became accepted wear for women. She died in 1980 well after they became accepted for women on at least casual occasions. I regularly wear full Elizabethan courtdress and don't have much trouble moving in it. The period dances are quite strenuous and bouncey but I have never had a problem doing them. I have also personally climbed up on and ridden an elephant in it, as well as run full tilt across uneven ground. I have a friend who used to climb trees in it on a fairly regular basis. One of the things I've noticed about the difference betwee how they might have moved in the past with long skirts and how modern people move is that we moderns thend to lean forward slightly as we walk. It's no problem wearing pants or a short (above ankle length), but it almost guarantees you will walk up the front of a floor length skirt. Another thing we do differently is that we allow our hips to sway quite a bit as we walk. In a long skirt (particularly with hoops) it becomes very gauche very quickly. In my Elizabethan hoops, I mostly walk from the knees down with minimal hip involvment. The Guilde of St. George at Bristol goes thru training every year with new people who join, so we are pretty aware of how to train people to walk in a hoop. In modern life I have a tnedency to take long strides (I'm fairly tall) but that's antoher thing you can't do in hoops- gotta take small lady-like steps! One of the greatest compliments we ladies get out at Bristol is that we look l! ike hovercraft as we walk. Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 17:48:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PLmgwp016623 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:48:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PLm2LV023166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PLlw6u075697; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:47:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PLlnWs075507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:47:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-56.sonic.net [209.148.114.56]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PLlipb027847 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:47:45 -0700 Message-ID: <426D6583.6000606@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:47:47 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com><000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub><7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> <426C0D0E.50201@lavoltapress.com><49166.209.249.180.16.1114383209.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <426C3CAB.6080404@lavoltapress.com> <49156.209.249.180.207.1114393324.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <49156.209.249.180.207.1114393324.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Also for city living, the homes of the wealthy were large, with large >doorways in the "public" areas - they are the ones who would >entertain. > Yes, but in the country people with less money were not limited by adjoining houses and could build large. > > Most museum/historic houses open for tours are those that belonged to >a wealthy person. I've seen 18thC houses that were made into >museums, and houses with historic markers that are private >residences. I tend to notice 18thC rather than early 19thC. > > > I grew up in an area where many people lived in houses from the late 18th century through the 1860s, and some later of course. Just farmhouses, but they still ran large. Not historic monuments or showcases, just private houses that had belonged (often still belonged) to farming families. My family had some close friends nearby with an 18th-century farmhouse that was bigger and had larger rooms than ours. BTW, there were several houses around built apparently by the local builder who built my parents' house, on much the same plan--it must have been popular. There was one about a mile and a half down the road that was the exact same house on a smaller scale. One thing about the 18th-century houses in the area was people tended to build closer to the road, though there were exceptions, our friends' house being one. Many I remember were rather tall, but wide, rectangular brick houses built right up near the road with little front yard. I'd like to buy one of those houses now, but we'd probably have to move out of the San Francisco Bay Area (which we don't want to do). There are certainly Victorian houses here but fewer, and they tend to be in congested areas of SF. When we bought our current house we wound up with one built in 1940--which people call an "old" house around here--because all the Victorians we viewed were on high-traffic streets with way too little parking. There are exceptions, of course. One of these days (like, in about a year) we'll get around to moving and then we'll see what's for sale. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com If you want a list of costume drama films and some books I'm deaccessing, feel free to email > I've also been in apartments that are from some earlier era (19thC). >Usually I notice when the kichen is really tiny, but again hadn't >noticed any particularly wide doors. > > I'll have to keep this more in mind when I'm in houses, too look out >for the sizes of rooms and doorways depending on the era. > > -Carol > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 17:56:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PLuI11016693 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:56:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PLtiLV024620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:55:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PLt9Xf082493; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:55:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3PLt2Cg082324 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:55:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2005 21:54:57 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050425224737.014d1c48@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:54:58 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) In-Reply-To: <20050425.143331.5403.528412@webmail22.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 21:33 25/04/2005 +0000, you wrote: >I think alot of what we perceive as comfort is actually just what we are >used to. I have been wearing period clothing (18th century originally) >since I was 15 and am quite comfortable in a variety of long skirt >variations as well as modern clothing. My grandmother was born in 1891 and >to her dying day never wore pants. She told me that she wore pants a >couple of times as a girl to play tricks at Halloween, but she just never >felt comfortable (Physically? Psychologically? She died before I thought >to ask her.) in them even after they became accepted wear for women. She >died in 1980 well after they became accepted for women on at least casual >occasions. > >I regularly wear full Elizabethan courtdress and don't have much trouble >moving in it. The period dances are quite strenuous and bouncey but I have >never had a problem doing them. I have also personally climbed up on and >ridden an elephant in it, as well as run full tilt across uneven ground. I >have a friend who used to climb trees in it on a fairly regular basis. > >One of the things I've noticed about the difference betwee how they might >have moved in the past with long skirts and how modern people move is that >we moderns thend to lean forward slightly as we walk. It's no problem >wearing pants or a short (above ankle length), but it almost guarantees >you will walk up the front of a floor length skirt. Another thing we do >differently is that we allow our hips to sway quite a bit as we walk. In a >long skirt (particularly with hoops) it becomes very gauche very quickly. >In my Elizabethan hoops, I mostly walk from the knees down with minimal >hip involvment. The Guilde of St. George at Bristol goes thru training >every year with new people who join, so we are pretty aware of how to >train people to walk in a hoop. In modern life I have a tnedency to take >long strides (I'm fairly tall) but that's antoher thing you can't do in >hoops- gotta take small lady-like steps! One of the greatest compliments >we ladies get out at Bristol is that we look l! > ike hovercraft as we walk. A modern view of someone in a *crinoline* skirt walking properly is Grace Kelly, in "To Catch a Thief". Towards the end of the movie she is in a blue? ball gown with a crinoline skirt. She crosses the ball room, goes up a set of steps and along a corridor (I think that is the sequence - many years since I viewed it.) I would swear that she was on a set of roller skates and someone gave her a push - you never see movement, just glide - it is fascinating to watch. The thing I found about the walking was as someone mentioned earlier - we now walk "heel toe" (flat shoes and trainers cause this in my opinion) whereas in earlier times people seem to have walked "toe heel" - look at the way the heel is set really far back on eighteenth century mules. If you walked "heel toe" in them, I am sure you would have kicked them off in no time!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 18:08:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PM8Us4016807 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:08:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PM88LV027039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PM80v1094239; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:08:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PM7Z4K093882 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:07:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23887 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:23:36 -0500 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:23:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: good weight for linings? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050422125915.026633e8@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wrote: > >If you're looking for a structural lining, e.g. for a fitted 14th-15th c. > >dress that molds the figure, I'd go for suit weight rather than shirt > >weight. Works fine even under a slightly lighter-weight wool. Carolyn asked: > Is suit weight the same as trousers weight? Inquiring minds want to know. Probably. Heavier than blouse material, lighter than canvas, maybe around the equivalent of denim. When I think of "suit weight" in linen, I think of the unstructured linen jackets and straight skirts I used to wear some years ago. That's not necessarily the same as "suit weight" in wool, but then there's so much variation in wool suits. In general, though, I find "blouse weight" or "shirt weight" a little too thin to do the job of manipulating the figure in a structural lining of a 14th-c. dress, where the lining does most of the real work. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 18:14:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PMEln4016855 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:14:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PMEJLV028030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:14:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PMEGxR000261; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:14:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PME9lD000109 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:14:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23965 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:30:14 -0500 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:30:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a portrait In-Reply-To: <005d01c54887$26301f80$e73ad9cb@ewalpole> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 24 Apr 2005, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > Hi everyone, I've been reading Herbert Norris' Tudor book and I've > come across a description of a portrait that I haven't seen before. ... > > I've skipped some of the description as I didn't want to, I looked on the > Ashmolean Museum's website and I can't find a portrait matching that > description, does anybody know if parts of their collection were > lost/destroyed during WW2 or something though for a British museum in the > midlands it seems unlikely (or maybe it's been sold to another museum since > 1938 when this book was published) I'd just really like to see these satin > lined sleeves that are edged with fur, it sounds odd for this period. A web > search also fails to turn up any mention of a Jean van Cleef as a 16th > century artist. Does anybody have any clue as to what Norris is talking > about? No idea about this picture, but a friend of mine tracked back another Norris picture from this same book and found it bore no resemblance in crucial details to the original. What's worse, Norris apparently combined elements of at least one period description of a different outfit (complete with original spellings) with his own comments based on his re-interpreted image. The result had the ring of authority, but as far as my friend could tell, it had no parallel to any single period source, and definitely not to the source he was claiming. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 18:30:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PMU9ED016999 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:30:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PMTTLV002185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PMTLu9015287; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from p03m115.mxlogic.net (p03m115.mxlogic.net [216.183.119.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3PMTHd7015196 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com) Received: from unknown [66.179.109.174] (HELO p01i174.mxlogic.net) by p03m115.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.9.0-23) with SMTP id d3f6d624.2877127600.11594.p03m115.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20549 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2005 22:29:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com) (199.184.176.8) by p01i174.mxlogic.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2005 22:29:15 -0000 Received: from denpexmb01.dex.dexmedia.com ([144.163.32.41]) by denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:15 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:14 -0600 Message-ID: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15DBC13B8@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: unusual picture Thread-Index: AcVJ1QfgDt4/tXyuQJi2UyNkiy/z6QAENzrA From: "McClure, Kate" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Apr 2005 22:29:15.0163 (UTC) FILETIME=[36438EB0:01C549E6] X-Spam: [F=0.5000000000] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [66.179.109.174] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3PMTHd7015196 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: unusual picture X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On a FleaJaunt yesterday, I found myself killing time while my husband was perusing yet one more pack of postcards. At hand was a box of 'instant relatives'. Among the gallery was a photo of a woman dressed in fashionable 1880's fashion...not too unusual until I realized that the trim on her skirt were bands of Raccoon fur. I was the first time I had seen garments of this period trimmed with fur...unless they were for out of doors, which this one plainly was not! And this fur certainly was not the fashionable sort favored in the '80's. Kathleen Could you post the URL for this item? I have a length of raccoon fur gifted to me by an Aunt some years ago, that I've never quite figured out what to do with. Thanks! Kate McClure Who is most bummed that she will not be at CostumeCon this year, but consoles herself in the fact that she'll be at Costume College! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 18:30:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PMUEM1017007 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:30:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PMTULV002186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PMTJLU015250; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from p03m115.mxlogic.net (p03m115.mxlogic.net [216.183.119.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3PMTFtQ015178 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com) Received: from unknown [66.179.109.174] (HELO p01i174.mxlogic.net) by p03m115.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.9.0-23) with SMTP id c3f6d624.2121857968.11595.p03m115.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20549 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2005 22:29:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com) (199.184.176.8) by p01i174.mxlogic.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2005 22:29:15 -0000 Received: from denpexmb01.dex.dexmedia.com ([144.163.32.41]) by denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:15 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:14 -0600 Message-ID: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15DBC13B8@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: unusual picture Thread-Index: AcVJ1QfgDt4/tXyuQJi2UyNkiy/z6QAENzrA From: "McClure, Kate" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Apr 2005 22:29:15.0163 (UTC) FILETIME=[36438EB0:01C549E6] X-Spam: [F=0.5000000000] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [66.179.109.174] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3PMTFtQ015178 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: unusual picture X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On a FleaJaunt yesterday, I found myself killing time while my husband was perusing yet one more pack of postcards. At hand was a box of 'instant relatives'. Among the gallery was a photo of a woman dressed in fashionable 1880's fashion...not too unusual until I realized that the trim on her skirt were bands of Raccoon fur. I was the first time I had seen garments of this period trimmed with fur...unless they were for out of doors, which this one plainly was not! And this fur certainly was not the fashionable sort favored in the '80's. Kathleen Could you post the URL for this item? I have a length of raccoon fur gifted to me by an Aunt some years ago, that I've never quite figured out what to do with. Thanks! Kate McClure Who is most bummed that she will not be at CostumeCon this year, but consoles herself in the fact that she'll be at Costume College! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 19:44:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PNihqu017587 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:44:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PNi6LV014215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:44:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PNhwCf081932; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:43:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PNhsOu081834 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:43:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.159] (p47.3c08.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.5.159]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3PNfDm01855 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:41:13 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <1db.3a605f3a.2f9d9658@aol.com> References: <1db.3a605f3a.2f9d9658@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-Magic Flute Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:52:08 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I havent seen the opera in question. I was just responding to another comment which seemed to imply that the costumes were somewhat over the top, in which case, it could be a result of the designer and director being one in the same person. I would be really interested in seeing pics of this opera production. Has anyone found any online? Sylrog On Apr 24, 2005, at 6:39 PM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/24/2005 7:06:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > sylvia@ntw.net writes: > > think you just said it. When the visuals overwhelm the substance, > that's where you draw the line. And it takes good designers and > directors to figure that out. Now if the designer in this case, Ms. > Taymore, is also the director, I can see how the problem arises. > > > > > But there is no problem here. There is nothing in these designs that > are > gratuitous or over done. Everything arises out of the story and music > which is > about mysticism and dark vs light. But it is, as I said, not subtle. > It is new > and striking. > > Y'know, the same complaint was ever-present 30 years ago when Ponnelle > and > Zeffirelli did their productions in the 70s & 80s that brought, like, > stage...as in plays...drama and action as well as scenery and costume > to the "just > stand there and sing" world of opera. > > "Eurotrash"....as it has been called even though it is most certainly > not > exclusive to Europe...arises when you have like midgets jumping on > trampolines > in "Le Nozzi di Figaro" for no apparent reason or Nazis with dogs in > "Der > Rosenkavalier" which is just stretching it too far. > > None of that is here. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 19:44:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3PNimtF017590 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:44:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3PNiHLV014257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:44:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PNiHto082247; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:44:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3PNiBBI082110 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:44:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24645 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:00:14 -0500 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:00:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050425131346.029ebc80@mail.alltel.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > It's a bit early (due out in early 2006) but I thought that some of you > might be interested: > Cloth and Clothing in Anglo-Saxon England, AD 450-700 by Penelope Rogers > > 250p, 100 illus. (Council for British Archaeology 2005) > ISBN 1902771540. Paperback. Not yet published - advance orders taken. > Publishers price US $39.95, DBBC Price US $32.00 Where did you hear 2006? David Brown's site doesn't have anything other than the above (2005). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 20:33:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q0XlNE017876 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:33:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q0X3LV018794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q0WsHj018260; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:32:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q0Wmfc017994 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:32:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-217-60-78.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.217.60.78]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3Q0WMAx023258 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:32:28 +1000 Message-ID: <005f01c549f7$4ab43140$4e3cd9cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a portrait Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:31:14 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > No idea about this picture, but a friend of mine tracked back another > Norris picture from this same book and found it bore no resemblance in > crucial details to the original. What's worse, Norris apparently combined > elements of at least one period description of a different outfit > (complete with original spellings) with his own comments based on his > re-interpreted image. The result had the ring of authority, but as far as > my friend could tell, it had no parallel to any single period source, and > definitely not to the source he was claiming. > > --Robin > That's exactly why I'm trying to come up with the original portrait. the satin lined sleeves edged with fur just sounds so unbelievable I want to work out what he's describing. thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]iimetro.com.au Mr. Speaker, I said the honourable member was a liar it is true and I am sorry for it. The honourable member may place the punctuation where he pleases. Richard Brinsley Sheridan (1751-1816) British dramatist. On being asked to apologise for calling a fellow MP a liar. Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 20:36:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q0aCN9017886 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:36:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q0ZfLV019476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:35:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q0ZeL8021140; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:35:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q0ZcEL021007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:35:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q1qQ6b024259 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:52:26 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:35:30 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <6.0.0.22.0.20050425131346.029ebc80@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050425131346.029ebc80@mail.alltel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200504252035.30383.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 25 April 2005 2:17 pm, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > It's a bit early (due out in early 2006) but I thought that some of you > might be interested: > > Cloth and Clothing in Anglo-Saxon England, AD 450-700 by Penelope Rogers > > This archaeological study of Anglo-Saxon textiles and decoration is based > on the first exhaustive study of dress evidence from early medieval > cemeteries. [rest cut] Yes, I'm interested! Thanks for the information! -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 20:42:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q0g2vm017935 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:42:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q0fMLV020451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q0fKP6025654; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:41:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q0fG2B025542 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:41:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.142] (pm5-142.eos.net [205.133.149.142]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j3Q0f7VQ010645 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:41:07 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:33:58 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200504252134.j3PLY5ew062723@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: comfort X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran: No arguments here. I didn't say that it was more comfortable than ALL modern clothes, just some. More comfortable than, say, yoga clothes? No way. But it is definitely more comfortable to wear and dance in than tight jeans -- and I stand by that statement! To me, very little is less comfortable than tight jeans. I don't know how anyone can stand to wear them. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 21:27:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q1Rrkb018207 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:27:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q1RMLV026237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q1RGVG059859; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:27:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q1RElv059746 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:27:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050426012708.IDBL5260.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:27:08 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.153.224.20]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050426012708.EOMM4494.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:27:08 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.10.3]); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:27:18 +1200 Message-ID: <00a901c549ff$16076a40$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005d01c54887$26301f80$e73ad9cb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a portrait Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:27:16 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi everyone, I've been reading Herbert Norris' Tudor book and I've come > across a description of a portrait that I haven't seen before. I'll quote > the description in case somebody knows where I can find a picture. > "In the Ashmolean Museum, Oxford, is a three-quarter-length portrait said to > be the Princess Mary, attributed to Jean van Cleef, and painted (according > to an expert) in the year 1537. ... [she] is dressed in bodice, sleeves, and > skirt of black velvet... The sleeves are not so large as usual... lined with > crimson satin and edged with a narrow band of ermine. The sleeves are turned > back to just above the elbow level, revealing the false sleeves of gold > brocade." http://home.earthlink.net/~elisale/portraitgallery.html It seems to have been reattributed to Antonio Moro which is perhaps why it's been hard to track down. It's only in black and white here, but you can see a band of fur rather than a whole turned back cuff. And another reason is it is now understood to be a copy; "Update- the Ashmolean Museum has confirmed that this is a later painting probably from the 19th century and not contempory." michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/04/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 22:06:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q264FR018425 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:06:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q25QLV029635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:05:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q25KAP086425; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:05:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q25HTc086349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:05:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-188.sonic.net [209.148.114.188]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q25E4r009798 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:05:14 -0700 Message-ID: <426DA1DD.9010509@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:05:17 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: comfort References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But jeans don't have to be worn hold-your-breath-and-yank-them-on tight! The style now is to wear T-shirts and jeans like you got poured into them, but that's not mandatory. I'm buying all my T-shirts a size bigger lately. Fran http://www.lavoltapress.com Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >To me, very little is less comfortable than tight >jeans. I don't know how anyone can stand to wear them. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 22:36:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q2aL1V018614 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:36:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q2ZOLV002762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:35:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2ZEYZ008465; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:35:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2ZCYO008287 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:35:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.14]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050426023500.ZLUI14321.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:35:00 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050425213143.02c77da0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:34:55 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200504260205.j3Q25Mtp086446@net.indra.com> References: <200504260205.j3Q25Mtp086446@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I called David Brown and pre-ordered it. That was the exact wording "early 2006" that they told me. They said that they could not be more specific. I REALLY wanted it sooner! (but I've always been a bit impatient). Beth At 09:05 PM 4/25/2005, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:00:13 -0500 (CDT) >From: Robin Netherton >Subject: Re: [h-cost] book >To: Historical Costume > >On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > > > It's a bit early (due out in early 2006) but I thought that some of you > > might be interested: > > > Cloth and Clothing in Anglo-Saxon England, AD 450-700 by Penelope Rogers > > > > 250p, 100 illus. (Council for British Archaeology 2005) > > ISBN 1902771540. Paperback. Not yet published - advance orders taken. > > Publishers price US $39.95, DBBC Price US $32.00 > >Where did you hear 2006? David Brown's site doesn't have anything other >than the above (2005). > >--Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 22:37:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q2b6uC018619 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:37:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q2aLLV002867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:36:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2aLPb009309; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:36:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (cmlapp16.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.229]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2aJP5009274 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:36:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-65-41-51-83.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [65.41.51.83]) by cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E29130066 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:36:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Simplicity Martha McCain pattern Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:35:51 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <001701c54a08$af2ca6a0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050425110626.0201a378@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3Q2aJP5009274 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From Martha McCain: "It was definitely photographed over the smaller hoop in #7216. I sent two cotton petticoats to go over the hoop. I don't know if the model wore both. The skirt (as I cut it) is four panels. The front panel is 30" wide (to put the pocket and the opening in the right place.) The other panels I suggested could vary to suit the fabric used. So if you had 45" fabric your skirt would be 45 x 3 = 135 = the 30" front panel - total 165" depending on seam allowances. It's a gauged skirt, so it can be whatever works best. The center front and center back are on a fold." Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 I have a question for anyone who has looked at this pattern - what is the model wearing under her skirts? If it's a hoop, it's a pretty small one, and definitely NOT either of the hoops in earlier Martha McCain patterns. If it's petticoats, how many and what style? While I certainly have enough petticoats in my wardrobe to properly support this dress, I'd like to know what the designer intended, how she intended the dress to be worn. There's nothing referenced anywhere in the pattern instructions about undergarments and I didn't see another pattern for petticoats on the Simplicity website Oh, and one other thing - there's no skirt circumference measurement anywhere on the pattern, that I can see, at least. I've emailed simplicity.com about this, but in the meantime if anyone knows what that measurement is, I'd appreciate the info. Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 22:37:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q2b8xo018622 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:37:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q2aXLV002883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2aXtN009472; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:36:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2aVNI009440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:36:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:46381 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DQFw7-0003J0-CA for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:36:31 -0400 Received: from 198.93.213.17 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:36:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4115.198.93.213.17.1114482996.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:36:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.213.17 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050424135307.025d0f98@mail.frys.com> References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com> <000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <4.3.1.2.20050424135307.025d0f98@mail.frys.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes: > My mother's mother was born in 1880, and sometime in the like late > 1960s-early 1970s she showed me how to walk in a long skirt. This was > when Maxi skirts were new. She said modern women didn't know how to > walk in long skirts, and walked across the floor kicking an imaginary > Maxi skirt out of the way. (She never wore a skirt shorter than > mid-calf.) She said one had to glide, "like this" - and she did it so > I could see. The balls of her feet touched the floor before her heels > did, and she could have carried the proverbial book on her head with > out it falling off. She didn't bounce at all, but moved around like > she was on > wheels. Now that's somewhat dissappointing. I kinda LIKE kicking my skirt out of the way. it's fun. I can see I need some practice. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 22:42:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q2gkks018654 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:42:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q2gFLV003294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:42:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2gCAt013774; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:42:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2g76r013644 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:42:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.14]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050426024200.ONZN19201.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:42:00 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050425213650.02c79090@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:41:56 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a portrait In-Reply-To: <200504260205.j3Q25Mtp086446@net.indra.com> References: <200504260205.j3Q25Mtp086446@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, Anthonis Mor van Dashorst paintings are very hard to find (under any of his usual names). It's a shame...He did lots of good costume portraits. I would love to find a good book on his paintings. Beth At 09:05 PM 4/25/2005, you wrote: >http://home.earthlink.net/~elisale/portraitgallery.html > >It seems to have been reattributed to Antonio Moro which is perhaps why it's >been hard to track down. It's only in black and white here, but you can see >a band of fur rather than a whole turned back cuff. >And another reason is it is now understood to be a copy; >"Update- the Ashmolean Museum has confirmed that this is a later painting >probably from the 19th century and not contempory." > >michaela de bruce _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 22:45:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q2jQf2018660 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:45:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q2ipLV003485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2iomp015722; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:44:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2in3s015688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:44:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:46659 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DQG48-0003Vd-LZ for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:44:49 -0400 Received: from 198.93.213.17 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4132.198.93.213.17.1114483493.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.213.17 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <426C3CAB.6080404@lavoltapress.com> References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com><000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub><7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> <426C0D0E.50201@lavoltapress.com> <49166.209.249.180.16.1114383209.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <426C3CAB.6080404@lavoltapress.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Note that urban versus city living has a strong effect on house size. > In the country, where land is more available, people tended as a very > general rule to build bigger houses. > urban IS City. Rural is country. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 22:45:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q2jVoF018663 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:45:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q2iwLV003499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2iw05015827; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:44:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2isgR015630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:44:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q41dGs026530 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:01:40 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] test Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:44:44 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200504251816.j3PIGWRF070990@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200504251816.j3PIGWRF070990@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200504252244.44356.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 25 April 2005 2:16 pm, Diane Maynard wrote: > Has anyone received any emails on the list since 4/18 or is the list really > this quiet ? There have certainly been posts since 4/18. I'm not sure what your problem is, since I have received them and could have done without because I was on vacation 4/21-24. :-) > -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 22:48:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q2mSmu018687 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:48:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q2lsLV003757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2lpDO017967; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:47:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q2lobb017837 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:47:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from argenthal@comcast.net) Received: from COMPUTER (pcp09142381pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net[69.142.192.249]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20050426024739015004p1q6e>; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 02:47:39 +0000 Message-ID: <002d01c54a0a$4e1da060$f9c08e45@COMPUTER> From: "Valerie Frank" To: Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:35:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Magic Flute X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3Q2mSmu018687 Status: RO I googled Julie Taymor on google images and came up with an article in Andante magazine that has some wonderful images, including the bears. Hope this works for you, Anna von Argenthal _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 25 23:03:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q33i7o018776 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:03:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q33DLV005296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:03:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q33AZE029216; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:03:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q338gl029183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:03:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-65.sonic.net [209.148.114.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q3360k025312 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:03:07 -0700 Message-ID: <426DAF6D.2080606@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:03:09 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com><000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub><7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> <426C0D0E.50201@lavoltapress.com> <49166.209.249.180.16.1114383209.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <426C3CAB.6080404@lavoltapress.com> <4132.198.93.213.17.1114483493.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <4132.198.93.213.17.1114483493.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just bad email editing/cut and paste, as I'm sure you realize. Just like you probably realize that as the beginning of your first sentence, "urban" should be captalized. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com basyefelton@floodcity.net wrote: >>Note that urban versus city living has a strong effect on house size. >>In the country, where land is more available, people tended as a very >>general rule to build bigger houses. >> >> >> > >urban IS City. Rural is country. > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 00:19:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q4JtmP019146 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:19:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q4JELV012949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:19:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q4J38X082954; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:19:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q4J1F7082863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q5ZlMm028041 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:35:51 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] bliaut thinking... Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:18:50 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <07ab01c542a7$96362670$0400a8c0@compaqub> <00d801c546bb$3f1c11c0$0200a8c0@sc> In-Reply-To: <00d801c546bb$3f1c11c0$0200a8c0@sc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200504260018.50519.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 21 April 2005 5:44 pm, Susan wrote: > I was thinking about bliaut and their pleats last night and remembered that > years ago I knew a weaver who was working on a special project. the fabric > was set up so that once it had been woven and washed, the fabric would form > little pleats as the warp (or the weft - can't remember which) would shrink > slightly in the washing. Has anyone ever seen anything like that? Is it > possible that the fabric pleats were either woven in or are an accident of > weaving that someone liked and incorporated into a dress that was copied? > > One thing I have wanted to check is if there is a middle eastern garment > that has a waist seam that could have turned into a bliaut. There is at least one Central Asian coat with a pleated-on skirt: http://www.geocities.com/qilich/clothing/html/coat2a.htm However, this garment does not have a close fit or long hanging sleeves, the way a bliaut does. In addition, this garment has an overlapping front closure--something that was not seen in western Europe at the time. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 00:35:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q4ZgCG019361 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:35:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q4Z8LV014202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:35:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q4Z5L2093373; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:35:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q4Z0xN093249 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:35:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from webmail.iimetro.com.au (www01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.15]) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id j3Q4YohL012049 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:34:50 +1000 From: ewalpole@iimetro.com.au To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:34:50 +1000 Message-Id: <426dc4eaabc2d2.67224281@iimetro.com.au> X-Authenticated-IP: [150.203.2.85] X-Sender: ewalpole@mail.iimetro.com.au X-Mailer: PHPost 1.10 (http://webgadgets.com/phpost/) X-Info-1: Report spam to abuse@iimetro.com.au MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 18th century movie on TV (for the Australians) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO for anybody interested in 18th century clothing you may want to watch Barry Lyndon tomorrow night (wednesday 27 April) at 10PM on the SBS. it was mentioned on this list a few weeks ago and from peoples descriptions it's scores highly on the authenticity. Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 00:51:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q4piO3019468 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:51:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q4pALV016190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q4p6A5003822; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:51:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q4p19B003792 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:51:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q4oMdd009623 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:50:23 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.90.255] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-90-255.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.90.255]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q4oslt088720 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:51:00 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050425214102.0352e4a8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:41:20 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: comfort In-Reply-To: References: <200504252134.j3PLY5ew062723@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >To me, very little is less comfortable than tight >jeans. I don't know how anyone can stand to wear them. In a word - Spandex. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 00:51:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q4pqTk019471 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:51:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q4p9LV016189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q4p3C5003804; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:51:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q4p1tw003785 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:51:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q4l9wO007472 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:47:09 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.90.255] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-90-255.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.90.255]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q4oslr088720 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:50:59 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050425213938.0345a410@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:40:32 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Julie Taymor In-Reply-To: <001701c549d8$faf793e0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> References: <9ef56360c10f35ccc51e8b95992b9d95@ntw.net> <4.3.1.2.20050424132011.0266d9c8@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Did you see her exhibit. I know it went to Chicago after it left DC. I >don't know where it went after Chicago. I missed any exhibit she had, and I missed the show itself when it was in San Francisco. Whoever said that poverty is ennobling was wrong. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 01:40:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3Q5eZW0019836 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:40:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3Q5dsLV019466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:39:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q5dhi1033829; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:39:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3Q5dgAn033758 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:39:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20050426053936016002loo5e>; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 05:39:36 +0000 Message-ID: <00db01c54a22$548430a0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <9ef56360c10f35ccc51e8b95992b9d95@ntw.net><4.3.1.2.20050424132011.0266d9c8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050425213938.0345a410@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Julie Taymor Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:39:35 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kayta, I had through my back out at the time. My husband took me all the way to DC. He rented a wheelchair for me. My son and I really wanted to see the exhibit. My son sometimes does costumes for theater as well as set design.. Both of us we so inspired. I can't recall if it was two or three floors of her costumes. I do remember that when the elevators opened for the second floor, a giraffe costume from The Lion King (TLK) was right in front of us. This was TLK floor. Almost all the costumes that you see in the book were on displays. Several had Julie's miniature models in costume beside the life size costume. This was so cool. The miniature was exactly like the life size. I seem to recall on one wall was a step-by-step display of her creating the models. There were also several videos of her work process on different projects. I really think this exhibit helped my son to decide to go into the professional arena, and on to college. He has been doing professional work since 10th grade. He's the one going to college in Liverpool. Here are some articles about the Taymor exhibit: http://www.nmwa.org/news/news.asp?newsid=29 (this is the one I saw) http://oncampus.osu.edu/v28n18/thisissue_3.html http://www.citybeat.com/1999-09-23/art3.shtml Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 06:21:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3QAL3xs018880 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 06:21:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3QAKDLV021097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 04:20:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QAJPt8003041; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 04:19:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QAJKJs002928 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 04:19:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-173-9-97.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.173.9.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3QAJ6VO007005 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:19:12 +1000 Message-ID: <004401c54a49$413b4ac0$6109adcb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005d01c54887$26301f80$e73ad9cb@ewalpole> <00a901c549ff$16076a40$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a portrait Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:18:07 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > http://home.earthlink.net/~elisale/portraitgallery.html > > It seems to have been reattributed to Antonio Moro which is perhaps why it's > been hard to track down. It's only in black and white here, but you can see > a band of fur rather than a whole turned back cuff. > And another reason is it is now understood to be a copy; > "Update- the Ashmolean Museum has confirmed that this is a later painting > probably from the 19th century and not contempory." > > michaela de bruce > http://glittersweet.com > Thanks so much Michaela, at least we know Norris wasn't making up his description even if the source isn't reliable. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]iimetro.com.au Mr. Speaker, I said the honourable member was a liar it is true and I am sorry for it. The honourable member may place the punctuation where he pleases. Richard Brinsley Sheridan (1751-1816) British dramatist. On being asked to apologise for calling a fellow MP a liar. Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 06:46:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3QAk12O022275 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 06:46:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3QAj9LV022838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 04:45:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QAj5wo019207; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 04:45:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QAj3r4019099 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 04:45:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 6.200.5274e8 (3657) for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 06:44:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <200.5274e8.2f9f75a6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 06:44:54 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a portrait To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Plus at least one of the pictures in the book, said to have been in the national gallery - on contacting them they said it may have been destroyed in the war, andas some of their records were too, they had no way of knowing. Finally tracked it down - it had been in the tate all along!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 06:46:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3QAktpo022288 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 06:46:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3QAk6LV022892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 04:46:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QAk6RA019848; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 04:46:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QAk08I019714 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 04:46:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.46.683b7e63 (3657) for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 06:45:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <46.683b7e63.2f9f75dc@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 06:45:48 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: comfort X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/26/05 3:08:16 AM GMT Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > To me, very little is less comfortable than tight > >jeans. I don't know how anyone can stand to wear them. > Lots and lots of stretch!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 12:26:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3QGQtZw025130 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 12:26:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3QGPjLV026805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:25:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QGPXgD084093; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:25:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QGOheo083135 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:24:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 964E3180021F for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:24:38 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.30) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 26 Apr 2005 16:24:38 -0000 Received: by ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 31A4286D46; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:10:01 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [149.169.167.192] by ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:10:01 -0500 From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:10:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] bliaut thinking... X-Originating-Ip: 149.169.167.192 X-Originating-Server: ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050426161001.31A4286D46@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3QGOheo083135 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine wrote: > > There is at least one Central Asian coat with a pleated-on skirt: > > http://www.geocities.com/qilich/clothing/html/coat2a.htm Cool image! Thank you for posting it. > > However, this garment does not have a close fit or long hanging sleeves, the > way a bliaut does. In addition, this garment has an overlapping front > closure--something that was not seen in western Europe at the time. I would also point out that this coat is Central Asian, and so is not something that Crusaders are likely to have brought back home. In addition, the pleated skirt on this type of coat mainly serves to give a slight bell effect to bottom half of the coat, it dosen't seem to do the things that hypothetical set in skirts do on a bilaut. -Katie Buffy: And what are we if not women up to a challenge? Willow: Exactly! I mean, did we not put the 'grr' in girl? -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 13:12:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3QHC4hb025478 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:12:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3QH8YLV002603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:08:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QH8REO026079; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:08:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QH8MBF025868 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:08:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A57D80C0066; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:08:13 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 26 Apr 05 17:08:07 -0000 Message-ID: <002e01c54a82$c659b960$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050425182959.79529.qmail@web41808.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:New Simplicity Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:09:46 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you look at the fabrics for the beginning of the 19thC you will see a lot of very sheer fabrics such as dimity and dotted Swiss. This fabric weight was still available throughout the century. I have two skirts of the 1850-60 period that are very sheer; one is a plaid with a matching capelet. There is a photo of women from my church which features this ensemble. It originally had a matching bodice . The one difference between today's sheer garments and the antiques is that they did wear underwear. I have seen many who are puzzled by the sheers from the 20thC and say,"I could never wear anything as revealing as that...How did they get away with it!" When you present them with the idea that the gown or dress would have complete undies, they are amazed. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody Watts" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 2:29 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re:New Simplicity > I remember seeing in a book on lady Civil War spies, > one woman's photo showed her wearing a summer frock. > It was made of an airy material, in a plaid like > pattern, it was in fact, so sheer you could see thru > it to the under garments she was wearing. Her toddler > girl was wearing a similar dress. > I didn't imagine them having such light weight > materials available,let alone wearing them....and she > was a "respectable matron" of the community...except > for the spying thing...... > Melody > > --- Carolann Schmitt wrote: > > > > While fashions from this era may look very heavy to > > wear, if they are made in appropriate weight fabrics > they usually are not. > > Many of the fabrics used during the period are very > lightweight. As part of a presentation, I did a > > comparison of the weights of original garments, > > reproduction garments using comparable weight > fabrics, and reproduction garments using inappropriate > > weight fabrics, i.e. drapery or upholstery fabrics. > > Several original silk taffeta dresses weighed a > little less than a pound; > > the reproductions using comparable fabrics and > linings weighed within an ounce of the originals; > > reproductions using a drapery fabrics weighed from > > five to eight pounds. > > > > Carolann Schmitt > > cschmitt@genteelarts.com > > www.genteelarts.com > > Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March > > 2-5, 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 13:19:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3QHJ7HQ025523 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:19:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3QHFeLV003369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:15:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QHFYup032455; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:15:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QHFS0Y032262 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:15:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A7299FB0076; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:15:21 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 26 Apr 05 17:15:18 -0000 Message-ID: <005801c54a83$c6f2cfa0$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <426C1B5A.5070500@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Videos of costume dramas for sale Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:17:07 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran, I would love to see you list! I am off to NH soon for the summer and am putting together a bag of viewing entertainment as well as for reading. Kathleen Mitchell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 6:19 PM Subject: [h-cost] Videos of costume dramas for sale > I've been amassing a big collection of DVDs and videos. There are some I > don't want to keep; I have way too much stuff around here. Some I don't > want to see again, some I replaced with other formats. Most are costume > dramas, a few are historical/informational, a few are fantasy. I don't > have time to make a list of them all, or list them with details (date, > actors, etc; but there are places on the net to look up that info). > There are also a couple books on tape my husband bought to listen to > while commuting. > > I listed the titles and very brief information for a couple of dozen of > these items in a file. I can email the file to anyone who requests it. > Prices will be based on the going used, non-eBay rates for that film in > that condition (most I bought new and viewed once). > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 13:27:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3QHRMrd025587 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:27:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3QHO1LV004367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QHNw3f040447; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:23:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QHNp2n040243 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:23:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A9214410020; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:23:45 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 26 Apr 05 17:23:42 -0000 Message-ID: <006001c54a84$f37cad60$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hoopskirts and comfort Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:25:30 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thought you might like a tale related to me by a fellow costumer. Back in the early 1980's she was costuming The King and I and when she came to the point of dress rehearsal, she made a special point to get the women in some sort of underwear. One woman was such a free spirit that she did not heed the instructions. When the scene for the ball opened, the King's entrance brought all the 'wives' to their knees and heads on the floor as blocked, this particular lass had not yet gained control of the unfamiliar hoops, and Yes, the inevitable happened. She "mooned" the whole cast and invited guests! After that, she decided to get old fashioned, and wear the d* undies. Kathleen ---- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 8:59 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: hoopskirts and comfort > > Sylrog: > > I used to be in a historic dance troupe, and one of our periods was the > 1860s. I not only wore a chemise, corset, hoop skirt, petticoat, and gown, > but I danced in them quite vigorously. They were very comfortable, in some > ways more comfortable than modern clothes (give me a good corset over a pair > of tight jeans any day). I don't know why you'd think it's impossible to > walk through modern doorways in a hoopskirt. I did it all the time. My gown > was made of light Indian cotton, because it was a test for the pattern and I > never made a "real" one. But most of the women in the group had gowns made > of light silk, and they weighed NOTHING. One woman even had a gorgeous full > petticoat that was ALL ruffles, maybe three or four inches wide. It didn't > weigh anything either... > > I live in a neighborhood with many old houses, and many of them do have very > big rooms, though not a lot of rooms. Also, I lived in two dorms that had > been dorms for a women's college in the 1860s. The hallways were huge, and > so were all the doors in the common areas. (The dorm rooms were small, > barely enough for two single beds and two small desks, and their doors were > normal-sized.) We were always told that the hallways and big doorways were > wide to accommodate the hoop skirts. I don't know if that's true, but it > certainly makes a lot of sense when you imagine a few dozen young women in > hoop skirts walking around at the same time. > > Gail Finke > (in Cincinnati, Ohio) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 13:30:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3QHUZkj025633 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:30:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3QHTkLV005369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:29:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QHTcsn045960; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:29:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QHTXio045786 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:29:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AA774660020; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:29:27 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 26 Apr 05 17:29:24 -0000 Message-ID: <008601c54a85$bf58c9a0$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15DBC13B8@denpexmb01-dex-bup> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: unusual picture Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:31:12 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can't do it on this machine but may be able to do it from a friend's. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "McClure, Kate" To: ; Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: [h-cost] RE: unusual picture > On a FleaJaunt yesterday, I found myself killing time while my husband > was perusing yet one more pack of postcards. At hand was a box of > 'instant relatives'. Among the gallery was a photo of a woman dressed > in fashionable 1880's fashion...not too unusual until I realized that > the trim on her skirt were bands of Raccoon fur. I was the first time I > had seen garments of this period trimmed with fur...unless they were for > out of doors, which this one plainly was not! And this fur certainly was > not the fashionable sort favored in the '80's. > > Kathleen > > > Could you post the URL for this item? I have a length of raccoon fur > gifted to me by an Aunt some years ago, that I've never quite figured > out what to do with. > > Thanks! > Kate McClure > Who is most bummed that she will not be at CostumeCon this year, but > consoles herself in the fact that she'll be at Costume College! > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 14:03:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3QI3CfH025890 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:03:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3QHvuNJ009046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 12:02:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QHcLTV054391; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:38:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QHcGJg054227 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:38:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AC8134C0096; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:38:09 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 26 Apr 05 17:38:06 -0000 Message-ID: <001301c54a86$f6c054c0$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001701c54a08$af2ca6a0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity Martha McCain pattern Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:39:55 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been trying to find this pattern at various venues without success. Any suggestions? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 10:35 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Simplicity Martha McCain pattern > >From Martha McCain: > "It was definitely photographed over the smaller hoop in #7216. I sent two > cotton petticoats to go over the hoop. I don't know if the model wore both. > > The skirt (as I cut it) is four panels. The front panel is 30" wide (to put > the pocket and the opening in the right place.) The other panels I > suggested could vary to suit the fabric used. So if you had 45" fabric your > skirt would be 45 x 3 = 135 = the 30" front panel - total 165" depending on > seam allowances. It's a gauged skirt, so it can be whatever works best. The > center front and center back are on a fold." > > Carolann Schmitt > cschmitt@genteelarts.com > www.genteelarts.com > Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 > > > > > I have a question for anyone who has looked at this pattern - what is the > model wearing under her skirts? If it's a hoop, it's a pretty small one, > and definitely NOT either of the hoops in earlier Martha McCain patterns. > If it's petticoats, how many and what style? While I certainly have enough > petticoats in my wardrobe to properly support this dress, I'd like to know > what the designer intended, how she intended the dress to be worn. There's > nothing referenced anywhere in the pattern instructions about undergarments > and I didn't see another pattern for petticoats on the Simplicity website > > Oh, and one other thing - there's no skirt circumference measurement > anywhere on the pattern, that I can see, at least. I've emailed > simplicity.com about this, but in the meantime if anyone knows what that > measurement is, I'd appreciate the info. > > Julie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 14:51:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3QIpEqc026522 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:51:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3QInZLV014963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 12:49:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QImsLK017296; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 12:48:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QIlpFo016197 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 12:48:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Underneathice@aol.com) Received: from Underneathice@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.45.2704c359 (4238) for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:47:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Underneathice@aol.com Message-ID: <45.2704c359.2f9fe6ca@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:47:38 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity Martha McCain pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5011 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/26/2005 1:39:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: >I have been trying to find this pattern at various venues without success. >Any suggestions? >Kathleen eBay currently has several listed in its "stores" section between $2.99 and $8.99 each, at "Buy it Now" prices. I'd definitely snap up this new dress pattern if I didn't have a huge stash of fabric and not enough room to keep it in! I've already taken over the closet and drawers of the guest room of my house, and I am being forbidden non-essential fabric trips until I make use of the fabric I already have (essential fabric trips being considered as trips for lining, interlining, etc). So, it will have to wait until after I've cleared out some of my stash! - Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 17:15:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3QLFJ9j027825 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:15:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3QLELLV004691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QLDijt053950; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:13:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QLDUhL053671 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:13:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF63F3C6C8 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:13:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <426EAEF6.4090309@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:13:26 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity Martha McCain pattern References: <001701c54a08$af2ca6a0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <001301c54a86$f6c054c0$655183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <001301c54a86$f6c054c0$655183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > I have been trying to find this pattern at various venues without success. > Any suggestions? > Kathleen If it's the brand new one it may just take a week or two for your local rep to get it stocked in stores near you. Just keep checking every week. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 18:49:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3QMnANf028648 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:49:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3QMmLLV019674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:48:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QMmC2w038519; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:48:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QMm9tQ038478 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:48:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DQYqe-00026N-00; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:48:09 -0700 Message-ID: <426EC532.8010500@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:48:18 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: thefrazzledfrau@yahoogroups.com References: <426C254F.6060108@earthlink.net> <426C5DC3.8050806@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <426C5DC3.8050806@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: "h-costume@indra.com" , GermanRenCostume , Saragrace Knauf , TheRenaissanceTailor Subject: [h-cost] Re: [F-Frau] "real" name for Low lands Pom Pom hat? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In case anyone is interested, Davenport refers to this as a Tiphoike. The Hoike part refers to the long cape like attachment....I guess that leaves Tipp as the name for the hat....hmmm...not very satisfactory. Sg Wicked Frau wrote: >>Does anyone know the "real" name for the raised pom pom hat in this >>picture? >> >>http://www.louvre.fr/img/photos/collec/peint/grande/rf1977.jpg >> >>Thanks, Sg >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 20:08:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3R08ieQ029471 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:08:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3R07nLV005575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:07:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3R07gfZ098822; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3R07eKq098768 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:07:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.245] (p37.3c10.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.5.245]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3R04nm17653 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:04:51 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <006001c54a84$f37cad60$655183d1@rmitchellras> References: <006001c54a84$f37cad60$655183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <4d0dc39bfb1b751d9bd7640459614632@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hoopskirts and comfort Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:15:43 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Isn't that what really happens in the play when the Siamese women first put on their hoop skirts? On Apr 26, 2005, at 11:25 AM, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Thought you might like a tale related to me by a fellow costumer. Back > in > the early 1980's she was costuming The King and I and when she came to > the > point of dress rehearsal, she made a special point to get the women in > some > sort of underwear. One woman was such a free spirit that she did not > heed > the instructions. When the scene for the ball opened, the King's > entrance > brought all the 'wives' to their knees and heads on the floor as > blocked, > this particular lass had not yet gained control of the unfamiliar > hoops, and > Yes, the inevitable happened. She "mooned" the whole cast and invited > guests! After that, she decided to get old fashioned, and wear the d* > undies. > > Kathleen > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Gail & Scott Finke" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 8:59 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Re: hoopskirts and comfort > > >> >> Sylrog: >> >> I used to be in a historic dance troupe, and one of our periods was >> the >> 1860s. I not only wore a chemise, corset, hoop skirt, petticoat, and >> gown, >> but I danced in them quite vigorously. They were very comfortable, in >> some >> ways more comfortable than modern clothes (give me a good corset over >> a > pair >> of tight jeans any day). I don't know why you'd think it's impossible >> to >> walk through modern doorways in a hoopskirt. I did it all the time. My > gown >> was made of light Indian cotton, because it was a test for the >> pattern and > I >> never made a "real" one. But most of the women in the group had gowns >> made >> of light silk, and they weighed NOTHING. One woman even had a gorgeous > full >> petticoat that was ALL ruffles, maybe three or four inches wide. It >> didn't >> weigh anything either... >> >> I live in a neighborhood with many old houses, and many of them do >> have > very >> big rooms, though not a lot of rooms. Also, I lived in two dorms that >> had >> been dorms for a women's college in the 1860s. The hallways were >> huge, and >> so were all the doors in the common areas. (The dorm rooms were small, >> barely enough for two single beds and two small desks, and their doors > were >> normal-sized.) We were always told that the hallways and big doorways >> were >> wide to accommodate the hoop skirts. I don't know if that's true, but >> it >> certainly makes a lot of sense when you imagine a few dozen young >> women in >> hoop skirts walking around at the same time. >> >> Gail Finke >> (in Cincinnati, Ohio) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 26 21:51:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3R1pHfw030453 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:51:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3R1oSLV013490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:50:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3R1oAGN068717; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:50:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3R1o8wm068637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:50:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3R36wj6017993 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:07:02 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] bliaut thinking... Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:49:57 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050426161001.31A4286D46@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> In-Reply-To: <20050426161001.31A4286D46@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200504262149.57252.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 26 April 2005 12:10 pm, Katie Lewis wrote: > Catherine wrote: > > There is at least one Central Asian coat with a pleated-on skirt: > > > > http://www.geocities.com/qilich/clothing/html/coat2a.htm > > Cool image! Thank you for posting it. > > > However, this garment does not have a close fit or long hanging sleeves, > > the way a bliaut does. In addition, this garment has an overlapping > > front closure--something that was not seen in western Europe at the time. > > I would also point out that this coat is Central Asian, and so is not > something that Crusaders are likely to have brought back home. I agree. Neither is the type of men's wear from India mentioned earlier in this thread. My purpose in mentioning this coat was to show that there doesn't seem to be any reason to assume garments with waist seams that are (roughly) contemporary with the bliaut had any other physical resemblances to that garment. > In addition, > the pleated skirt on this type of coat mainly serves to give a slight bell > effect to bottom half of the coat, it dosen't seem to do the things that > hypothetical set in skirts do on a bilaut. Again, I agree. Of course, the coat is made of a heavy fabric and likely was lined, which would also affect the silhouette. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 01:42:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3R5g9R3031947 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 01:42:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3R5fKLV002544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:41:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3R5f9t5022529; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:41:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41813.mail.yahoo.com (web41813.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.147]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3R5f73r022457 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:41:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 8806 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2005 05:41:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Ma/ptXfMwSx/Qoey1EwFlU4U5QCIHWXNn2v2EInyyF3hhRyfTpUZFvpgT4YvWokBLSHOoOIf4lXUvKilz2QRW/KZefoOEP+MvR/wUHehSh170Hti+cOAa//DpDsI5hQk30keiw0BMpsgLLI8CAAkaXeqBI/LKMcaL9Bg/eTCpMs= ; Message-ID: <20050427054102.8804.qmail@web41813.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41813.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:41:02 PDT Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:41:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hoopskirts and comfort To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That particular "Tale" sounds like the re telling of the actual movie scene, when the Siamese Ladies of the Court are about to greet the visiting English gentlemen,tricked out on English hoop gowns,ala Mrs.Leon- Owens ...see the King and do the "toady", head to floor, hoops raising behing them like peacocks tails, the Gentleman pops his monocle at the"behind the scence" scene. The Ladies raise up, scream at the sight of his goatee and runoff screaming "he has the head of a goat".he also gets a glimpse of their bare legs.... Maybe it was to good a scene not to steal.... --- Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Thought you might like a tale related to me by a > fellow costumer. Back in > the early 1980's she was costuming The King and I > and when she came to the > point of dress rehearsal, she made a special point > to get the women in some > sort of underwear. One woman was such a free spirit > that she did not heed > the instructions. When the scene for the ball > opened, the King's entrance > brought all the 'wives' to their knees and heads on > the floor as blocked, > this particular lass had not yet gained control of > the unfamiliar hoops, and > Yes, the inevitable happened. She "mooned" the > whole cast and invited > guests! After that, she decided to get old > fashioned, and wear the d* > undies. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 07:37:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RBbIKs001806 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:37:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RBaXLV012694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 05:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RBaKgJ050386; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 05:36:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RBaEtd050247 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 05:36:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A92799D0084; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:36:07 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.110 ([209.131.81.110] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 27 Apr 05 11:36:05 -0000 Message-ID: <002a01c54b1d$8e368680$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050427054102.8804.qmail@web41813.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hoopskirts and comfort Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:37:54 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe so, but not quite the expected theft for this conservative audience! And who is to say that Mrs.LeonOwens hadn't shown them her drawers...assuming again that she wore them herself. A moon is a moon but sometimes paler than others. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody Watts" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 1:41 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hoopskirts and comfort > That particular "Tale" sounds like the re telling of > the actual movie scene, when the Siamese Ladies of the > Court are about to greet the visiting English > gentlemen,tricked out on English hoop gowns,ala > Mrs.Leon- Owens ...see the King and do the "toady", > head to floor, hoops raising behing them like peacocks > tails, the Gentleman pops his monocle at the"behind > the scence" scene. The Ladies raise up, scream at the > sight of his goatee and runoff screaming "he has the > head of a goat".he also gets a glimpse of their bare > legs.... > Maybe it was to good a scene not to steal.... > > --- Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > Thought you might like a tale related to me by a > > fellow costumer. Back in > > the early 1980's she was costuming The King and I > > and when she came to the > > point of dress rehearsal, she made a special point > > to get the women in some > > sort of underwear. One woman was such a free spirit > > that she did not heed > > the instructions. When the scene for the ball > > opened, the King's entrance > > brought all the 'wives' to their knees and heads on > > the floor as blocked, > > this particular lass had not yet gained control of > > the unfamiliar hoops, and > > Yes, the inevitable happened. She "mooned" the > > whole cast and invited > > guests! After that, she decided to get old > > fashioned, and wear the d* > > undies. > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 11:42:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RFgfQn003890 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:42:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RFfNLV007640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RFf53J041534; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:41:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QHbXfj053642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:37:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-36.sonic.net [209.148.114.36]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QHbQ8F006948 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:37:30 -0700 Message-ID: <426E7C58.1050804@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:37:28 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Videos of costume dramas for sale References: <426C1B5A.5070500@lavoltapress.com> <005801c54a83$c6f2cfa0$655183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <005801c54a83$c6f2cfa0$655183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All recordings in North American video format unless otherwise noted. All are legitimate manufacturer’s versions. (I put a few items that came with cardboard cases into sturdier plastic cases.) None were played by me more than once, most were bought new by me. All are in very good to excellent condition unless otherwise noted. All are in English or have English subtitles. Prices are based on what I find to be the going rate for this used video (so if it is a “rare” OP video it will cost more). Payment should be by check or money order. Buyer pays shipping. Shipping will be media mail or priority mail as requested; insurance is required for expensive items. Please do not reserve an item unless you are determined to buy it. No returns or refunds. * * *Tapes* “The Saragossa Manuscript” (fantasy; widescreen, 2 tapes) $18 “Monty Python and the Holy Grail” (comedy/fantasy) $8 Pasolini “The Decameron” (Renaissance Italian tales) $25 Ian Holm “King Lear” (Shakespeare) $24 “Peter the Great” (late 17thc-early 18thc Russian) $12 1967/Julie Christie “Far from the Madding Crowd” (Thomas Hardy) $20 BBC “Barchester Chronicles” (2 tapes, *UK/European video format) *$15** 1985 BBC “Sense and Sensibility” (Jane Austen) $13 1980 BBC “Pride and Prejudice” (Jane Austen) 2 tapes, $6 1995 “Persuasion” (Jane Austen; still shrink wrapped) $18 “Oscar and Lucinda” (Peter Carey) $3 “Swann in Love” (Proust) $13 Bergman “Fanny and Alexander” (a little snow in tape) $10 “My Brilliant Career” (set in turn-of-20thc Australia) $25 “The Far Pavilions” (romance set in Raj India) $4 Masterpiece Theatre “Rebecca” (Daphne du Maurier) $17 Gregory Peck “To Kill a Mockingbird” $21 Milos Forman “The Firemen’s Ball” (satire; Czech with English subtitles) $10 *DVDs* “Dragonslayer” (fantasy) $7 “Merlin” (Arthurian fantasy) $7 “Mists of Avalon” (Arthurian fantasy) $7 2000 “Arabian Nights” (fantasy) $7 “The Strange Case of Dr. Jeckyll & Mr. Hyde” (science fiction) $7 1971 “The Six Wives of Henry VIII” (historical miniseries) $60 2001 “The Wives of Henry VIII” (historical miniseries) $15 History Channel “Elizabeth” (the First; miniseries) $23 “Cromwell” $17 Catherine Deneuve “Time Regained” (Proust) $17 “Tipping the Velvet” (Gay coming of age, set in late Victorian era) $17 W. C. Fields “It’s a Gift!”$7 W. C. Fields “The Bank Dick” $7 W. C. Fields “International House” $7 Kenneth Branagh “To the Lighthouse” (Virginia Woolf) $4 1979 “All Quiet on the Western Front” (Remarque) $3 Humphrey Bogart “Treasure of the Sierra Madre” (special edition, 2 disks) $13 “A Month by the Lake” (Romance set in 1920s) $7 Rosalind Russell “Auntie Mame” $10 A & E “Jewel in the Crown” (miniseries set in India) $45 *Books on Tape* /Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman/ (Miller, science fiction, sequel to _A Canticle for Leibowitz_) $52 *Printed Books *(all duplicates I bought by mistake) Santina Levey, /Elizabethan Treasures: The Hardwick Hall Textiles/ Hardcover, new condition $20 /Beeton’s Book of Needlework,/ 1870, 1986 reprint. Hardcover, new condition $20 Susan Pufpaff, /Nineteenth Century Hat Maker’s and Felter’s Manuals/ Paperback, new condition $20 Valerie Steele, /Fetish: Fashion, Sex, and Power/ Paperback, new condition $10 Metropolitan Museum of Art, Our New Clothes, Acquisitions of the 1990s Paperback, new condition Manning and Donaldson, /Fundamentals of Dress Construction/ Original 1926 hardcover in excellent condition $22 Vera Nazarian, /Dreams of the Compass Rose/ (Fantasy) Hardcover, new condition $25 Edward Carey, /Observatory Mansions/ (Literary fantasy) Paperback, new condition $4 Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >Fran, I would love to see you list! I am off to NH soon for the summer and >am putting together a bag of viewing entertainment as well as for reading. > >Kathleen Mitchell > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 11:45:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RFjrnE003913 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:45:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RFjDLV008101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:45:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RFjCtC045515; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:45:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3QHrdRK068526 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:53:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A01C7A0008C; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:53:32 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 26 Apr 05 17:53:30 -0000 Message-ID: <005d01c54a89$1d2583e0$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050425073426.54046.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> <426CFE31.6080203@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1874 Canadian dress Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:55:19 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was able to get this book used from one of the alternate book sources. Thankyou for the lead. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1874 Canadian dress > Kathy Page wrote: > > > I have been contacted by a potential client whom has > > asked for a woman's day dress, circa 1874, Ontario. > > Ah, look for a copy of "Women's Costume in Ontario (1867 - 1907)" by > K.B. Brett and the Royal Ontario Museum/ University of Toronto, 1966. > It's a 16 page booklet with B&W photos and a text overview. I can't say > it is specifically rural clothing, but it is Canadian, and there are > some differences in style from the American of the same period. The > booklet says Ontario followed the English fashions, but New York and > Boston styles also caught their eye. > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 12:02:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RG2SIN004052 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:02:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RG1jLV010105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:01:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RG1f1b060679; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:01:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41826.mail.yahoo.com (web41826.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.94.160]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3R5o0gO027904 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:50:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 57503 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2005 05:49:55 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=NbD5yQwNaCY9d8WQoUmvERv1KYIAP82zPHOk5JTjZJT7ee4y0HY2eMK2zy4OUfprawwB+omV4HzTNEtuIRrfqvUjiDYjWIHMqr3AvEo9/x3aKJ5pCunCx5IPds2sZtfRgLe+oDW01ZYjeZrrKKaKH9c7rprSqczYuYBU9Y9HZfQ= ; Message-ID: <20050427054955.57501.qmail@web41826.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41826.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:49:55 PDT Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:49:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Can anyone point me in the direction of a simple book or webpage that shows how to do Blackwork, basic stiches and patterns? I'd like a simple "primer" version so I can try to make my next project look a little less ...bad..... Thanks... Melody __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 12:04:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RG4hF2004072 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:04:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RG3oLV010396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:03:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RG3lJa062563; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:03:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RBiPqq055707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 05:44:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz@net.indra.com) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.12.9/Submit) id j3RBiOJS055706 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 05:44:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 05:44:24 -0600 From: sfarmer@goldsword.com To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) Message-ID: <20050427114424.GC44722@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO [This message was delayed because it was sent to h-costume-bounces instead of to h-costume. Please make sure you are using the correct address for the list. -eliz] > I think alot of what we perceive as comfort is actually just what we are used to. I have been wearing period clothing (18th century originally) since I was 15 and am quite comfortable in a variety of long skirt variations as well as moder n clothing. My grandmother was born in 1891 and to her dying day never wore pant s. She told me that she wore pants a couple of times as a girl to play tricks at Halloween, but she just never felt comfortable (Physically? Psychologically? Sh e died before I thought to ask her.) in them even after they became accepted wea r for women. She died in 1980 well after they became accepted for women on at le ast casual occasions. > My grandmother was born in 1899 -- despite how "freezified" she was, we *never* could get her into pants -- not even sweats for warmth. She said it "wan't seemly" for a woman to wear pants. But then, other than a brief episode in the 1940s, she never cut her hair until she was well past 80. susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 12:05:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RG5XD3004082 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:05:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RG4rLV010572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:04:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RG4otp063684; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:04:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RFHZxL016611 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:17:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.fe.125f918b (16097) for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mblk-d41 (mblk-d41.mblk.aol.com [205.188.212.225]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID111-3ee1426facfc2ae; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:17:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:17:16 -0400 Message-Id: <8C7195354C5C5A8-CEC-13138@mblk-d41.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200504261803.j3QI38cC077151@net.indra.com> Received: from 216.23.116.42 by mblk-d41.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.225) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:17:16 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200504261803.j3QI38cC077151@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.0.0.12281 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.212.225 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Comfort X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree that comfort is, in large part, what you're used to. I grew up wearing tight jeans (before they put spandex in them), and when I got my first job that required me to wear slacks instead, I felt very uncomfortable for a while. Like I was hanging out where I shouldn't be. I imagine that must be how women who wore corsets every day felt when they took them off. Tea Rose In a message dated 4/26/05 3:08:16 AM GMT Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > To me, very little is less comfortable than tight > >jeans. I don't know how anyone can stand to wear them. > Lots and lots of stretch!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 12:09:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RG9Umc004133 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:09:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RG8iLV010987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:08:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RG8eCd067043; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:08:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RG8b6E066936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:08:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DQp5P-000894-I6; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:08:27 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:08:27 -0500 Message-ID: <20050427110827.rp1f55adf9oo84k0@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:08:27 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) References: <20050427114424.GC44722@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <20050427114424.GC44722@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting sfarmer@goldsword.com: > [This message was delayed because it was sent to h-costume-bounces > instead of to h-costume. Please make sure you are using the correct > address for the list. -eliz] *blush* I realized it after I hit send -- I was setting it up to go to the correct address, and pasted the wrong one. No more cut and paste! Email works again! >happy dance< Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 12:24:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RGOSRs004258 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:24:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RGNcLV012755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:23:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGNVR4081135; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:23:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGNSkf081025 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:23:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc15.attbi.com[204.127.197.125]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20050427162323015004s61ee>; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:23:23 +0000 Received: from [67.168.12.165] by 204.127.197.111; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:23:22 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net (Elena O'Tighearnaigh) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:23:22 +0000 Message-Id: <042720051623.3459.426FBC7A0001437700000D8322058861720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here are 2 I had on my favorites. I hope they help! http://www.blackworkarchives.com/bw_flwrs.html http://www.skinnersisters.com/stitch/issue1/index.html -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Hi > Can anyone point me in the direction of a simple book > or webpage that shows how to do Blackwork, basic > stiches and patterns? > I'd like a simple "primer" version so I can try to > make my next project look a little less ...bad..... > Thanks... > Melody > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 12:27:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RGRUmo004287 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:27:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RGQoLV013239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGQnhj084320; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:26:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3RGQjJw084245 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:26:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 10277 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2005 16:45:05 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:45:05 -0700 Received: from 162.119.64.110 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <28059.162.119.64.110.1114619204.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <20050427054955.57501.qmail@web41826.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050427054955.57501.qmail@web41826.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi > Can anyone point me in the direction of a simple book > or webpage that shows how to do Blackwork, basic > stiches and patterns? > I'd like a simple "primer" version so I can try to > make my next project look a little less ...bad..... > Thanks... > Melody My first and only blackwork book is called "the New Carolingian Modelbook" and it was written by a lady in the SCA many years ago. She has a how-to and many documented patterns. I think it is a good book for starters. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 12:29:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RGTWvi004309 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:29:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RGSjLV013583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:28:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGSdVT086167; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:28:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGSYRd086069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:28:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-12.sonic.net [209.148.113.12]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGSXdw031663 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:28:33 -0700 Message-ID: <426FBDB3.8090407@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:28:35 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Videos of costume dramas for sale References: <426C1B5A.5070500@lavoltapress.com> <005801c54a83$c6f2cfa0$655183d1@rmitchellras> <426E7C58.1050804@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <426E7C58.1050804@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, that was supposed to be a private e-mail. Fran Lavolta Press wrote: > All recordings in North American video format unless otherwise noted. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 12:30:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RGUuHb004327 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:30:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RGUBLV013909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:30:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGU6YE087609; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:30:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3RGU16d087527 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:30:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 10474 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2005 16:48:22 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:48:22 -0700 Received: from 162.119.64.110 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35117.162.119.64.110.1114619400.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <042720051623.3459.426FBC7A0001437700000D8322058861720809070E029D0E0A0 809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> References: <042720051623.3459.426FBC7A0001437700000D8322058861720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Me again, Here is a review of the book I mentioned. I remembered it being relatively inexpensive and the review says it is $24.95. Here is the link: http://www.renaissancemagazine.com/books/new.html Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 12:51:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RGpqjW004558 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:51:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RGp7LV017335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:51:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGp6ND008061; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:51:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGp1x6007967 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:51:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08024 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:50:57 -0500 (CDT) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:50:56 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) Thread-Index: AcVLQrXOITYTxlaDSi+XxsloLt4mYQABC3og From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3RGp1x6007967 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Despite the criticism and cartoons of the time, most women who recorded in diaries and letters I've found that actually wore crinolines under their gowns, mentioned how comfortable they were to wear compared to the many underpetticoats worn prior to its invention and the bustle, ever-tightening skirts and more restrictive corsets of the 1867-1890 era. Judging from photographs, most women didn't wear the extremely wide skirts anyway, and wide skirts naturally made one's waist look smaller, so corsets were not as restrictive during the bell-shaped skirt cycle. Also, once photography was more common and development and reproduction of photos became less time and $$ consuming, the photographers for the rich and famous also became retouchers, altering photographs so that "professional beauties" looked even more the fashionable ideal. If you had some extra pounds the corset couldn't draw in enough, a master retoucher could "improve" your photograph. Also bear in mind that some women would boast they had 18 or 20 " waist but that did not include the lacing gap of 2" - 4" and the most fashionable ideal women of the day were the "supermodels" of our time and probably even a lesser percentag of women in the general population then could diet, corset, and dress themselves in close imitation of the fashionable ideal then today. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 12:58:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RGwLfL004633 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:58:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RGvaLV018371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:57:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGvDk3013843; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:57:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGv66E013726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:57:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-12.sonic.net [209.148.113.12]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGv39V010315 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:57:04 -0700 Message-ID: <426FC462.60507@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:57:06 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dyeing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm sure everyone will be thrilled to know that I managed to cover the T-shirts I dyed glow-in-the-dark "peach" with Dharma's "rust brown" dye. Now they are rust orange (the color of rust in nature) as opposed to the reddish brown on Dharma's dye chart. Not a color I usually wear but luckily it looks good on me. I have now discovered an important lesson: Dye the lighter colors first, so if you screw up you can try again with the darker ones. Considering I bought about three dozen tops of various types, and about a dozen colors of dye, I will keep this in mind. Pity I dislike black. Can anyone recommend a good book or website on Procion dyeing cottons that has instructions for: (a) Mixing colors? Preferably not just promary dyes, but for example I am thinking of adding some brown dye to the "rust" to get the russet brown I wanted (and trying again on some white shirts). (b) Ombre dyeing? (color gradients) Thanks for any info. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 13:02:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RH2tuf004721 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:02:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RH23LV019097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RH1u3a017943; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:02:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RH1h2C017687 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:01:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A56FB200098; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:01:35 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.108 ([209.131.81.108] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 27 Apr 05 17:01:31 -0000 Message-ID: <002601c54b4b$04a85be0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <426C1B5A.5070500@lavoltapress.com><005801c54a83$c6f2cfa0$655183d1@rmitchellras> <426E7C58.1050804@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Videos of costume dramas for sale Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:03:20 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you for the list, Fran. I will need to check your inventory with my own, but several are interesting. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Videos of costume dramas for sale > All recordings in North American video format unless otherwise noted. > All are legitimate manufacturer’s versions. (I put a few items that came > with cardboard cases into sturdier plastic cases.) None were played by > me more than once, most were bought new by me. All are in very good to > excellent condition unless otherwise noted. All are in English or have > English subtitles. > > Prices are based on what I find to be the going rate for this used video > (so if it is a “rare” OP video it will cost more). Payment should be by > check or money order. Buyer pays shipping. Shipping will be media mail > or priority mail as requested; insurance is required for expensive > items. Please do not reserve an item unless you are determined to buy > it. No returns or refunds. > > * * > > *Tapes* > > “The Saragossa Manuscript” (fantasy; widescreen, 2 tapes) $18 > > “Monty Python and the Holy Grail” (comedy/fantasy) $8 > > Pasolini “The Decameron” (Renaissance Italian tales) $25 > > Ian Holm “King Lear” (Shakespeare) $24 > > “Peter the Great” (late 17thc-early 18thc Russian) $12 > > 1967/Julie Christie “Far from the Madding Crowd” (Thomas Hardy) $20 > > BBC “Barchester Chronicles” (2 tapes, *UK/European video format) *$15** > > 1985 BBC “Sense and Sensibility” (Jane Austen) $13 > > 1980 BBC “Pride and Prejudice” (Jane Austen) 2 tapes, $6 > > 1995 “Persuasion” (Jane Austen; still shrink wrapped) $18 > > “Oscar and Lucinda” (Peter Carey) $3 > > “Swann in Love” (Proust) $13 > > Bergman “Fanny and Alexander” (a little snow in tape) $10 > > “My Brilliant Career” (set in turn-of-20thc Australia) $25 > > “The Far Pavilions” (romance set in Raj India) $4 > > Masterpiece Theatre “Rebecca” (Daphne du Maurier) $17 > > Gregory Peck “To Kill a Mockingbird” $21 > > Milos Forman “The Firemen’s Ball” (satire; Czech with English subtitles) $10 > > *DVDs* > > “Dragonslayer” (fantasy) $7 > > “Merlin” (Arthurian fantasy) $7 > > “Mists of Avalon” (Arthurian fantasy) $7 > > 2000 “Arabian Nights” (fantasy) $7 > > “The Strange Case of Dr. Jeckyll & Mr. Hyde” (science fiction) $7 > > 1971 “The Six Wives of Henry VIII” (historical miniseries) $60 > > 2001 “The Wives of Henry VIII” (historical miniseries) $15 > > History Channel “Elizabeth” (the First; miniseries) $23 > > “Cromwell” $17 > > Catherine Deneuve “Time Regained” (Proust) $17 > > “Tipping the Velvet” (Gay coming of age, set in late Victorian era) $17 > > W. C. Fields “It’s a Gift!”$7 > > W. C. Fields “The Bank Dick” $7 > > W. C. Fields “International House” $7 > > Kenneth Branagh “To the Lighthouse” (Virginia Woolf) $4 > > 1979 “All Quiet on the Western Front” (Remarque) $3 > > Humphrey Bogart “Treasure of the Sierra Madre” (special edition, 2 > disks) $13 > > “A Month by the Lake” (Romance set in 1920s) $7 > > Rosalind Russell “Auntie Mame” $10 > > A & E “Jewel in the Crown” (miniseries set in India) $45 > > *Books on Tape* > > /Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman/ (Miller, science fiction, > sequel to _A Canticle for Leibowitz_) $52 > > *Printed Books *(all duplicates I bought by mistake) > > Santina Levey, /Elizabethan Treasures: The Hardwick Hall Textiles/ > Hardcover, new condition $20 > > /Beeton’s Book of Needlework,/ 1870, 1986 reprint. Hardcover, new > condition $20 > > Susan Pufpaff, /Nineteenth Century Hat Maker’s and Felter’s Manuals/ > Paperback, new condition $20 > > Valerie Steele, /Fetish: Fashion, Sex, and Power/ Paperback, new > condition $10 > > Metropolitan Museum of Art, Our New Clothes, Acquisitions of the 1990s > Paperback, new condition > > Manning and Donaldson, /Fundamentals of Dress Construction/ Original > 1926 hardcover in excellent condition $22 > > Vera Nazarian, /Dreams of the Compass Rose/ (Fantasy) Hardcover, new > condition $25 > > Edward Carey, /Observatory Mansions/ (Literary fantasy) Paperback, new > condition $4 > > > > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > >Fran, I would love to see you list! I am off to NH soon for the summer and > >am putting together a bag of viewing entertainment as well as for reading. > > > >Kathleen Mitchell > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 13:03:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RH3DGP004728 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:03:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RH2VLV019174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:02:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RH2PpO018353; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:02:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp815.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp815.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3RH2Ihs018264 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:02:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from unknown (HELO Genie.sbcglobal.net) (maggie.gene@sbcglobal.net@68.93.123.42 with login) by smtp815.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2005 17:02:17 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050427115110.01ebf538@mail.justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:59:59 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... In-Reply-To: <35117.162.119.64.110.1114619400.squirrel@webmail.inreach.c om> References: <042720051623.3459.426FBC7A0001437700000D8322058861720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <35117.162.119.64.110.1114619400.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:30 AM 4/27/2005, you wrote: >Me again, > >Here is a review of the book I mentioned. I remembered it being >relatively inexpensive and the review says it is $24.95. > >Here is the link: > >http://www.renaissancemagazine.com/books/new.html > >Diana To whoever asked the original question (deleted the message too soon, drat), Did a bit of research, can't find this book for that price, amazon has it used for over $90, but abe books has it for $54. If you can get it, it's a good book. Another blackwork book, easier to find and lot's less expensive, is _Blackwork_ by Mary Gostelow. It's mostly extant stuff, and history, but it does have a nice section on designing your own and describes the stitches used. It has pictures of the stitches themselves. They are not very detailed but she has them both in sketch format and a photo on canvas. The back is full of modern uses of blackwork, but the design ideas seem pretty solid. Good luck Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 13:15:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RHFmvi004829 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:15:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RHF0LV020798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:15:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RHEalo028778; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:14:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3RHEGR7028415 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:14:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 23009 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2005 17:14:09 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:14:09 -0700 Received: from 162.119.64.110 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <61478.162.119.64.110.1114622054.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050427115110.01ebf538@mail.justinanimator.com> References: <042720051623.3459.426FBC7A0001437700000D8322058861720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <35117.162.119.64.110.1114619400.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050427115110.01ebf538@mail.justinanimator.com> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > To whoever asked the original question (deleted the message too soon, > drat), > > Did a bit of research, can't find this book for that price, amazon has it > used for over $90, but abe books has it for $54. Yeah, I was doing a little more looking around after I posted and found that it was discontinued and pretty expensive now. Boy am I glad I bought that copy years ago! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 13:50:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RHoQ49005256 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:50:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RHngLV025200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:49:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RHnTUO061066; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:49:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3RHnPFW060902 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:49:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sismith42@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 48320 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2005 17:49:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=v1jUqG4Awoy+yF8Gct23j/Amb/RXBloqpkRicePiGYOvG/5yHj81ht4kx6RVLMqHL6gauBhoMGfeQPT2XI5NKnJfCZlj/DjFvkJ/X3GsvkYRFsvwWMUN7sZ8+57WNXj5PJ66lTaQeO2K4/aOLNy+9M+GmFg3+N2LqlJ/nohuXYA= ; Message-ID: <20050427174919.48318.qmail@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.122.57.146] by web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:49:19 PDT Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:49:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephanie Smith To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504252134.j3PLY5ex062723@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] how fabric moves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia wrote: "One of my personal pet peeves in costume recreation for this period is the use of modern upholstery weights. This is clearly not in keeping with the extant materials in collections at the Musee Cluny, Musee de Tissue in Lyon, Musee de la Mode et du Costume (at the Louvre) or the Musee de la Mode (at the Union Central des Arts Decoratifs.) Most of these museums have thorough catalogs of actual materials and some garments (usually partials, burial garments), some even have catalogs online." I have a hard time looking at photographs of medieval fabric (or even modern fabric!) and making the connection to how the fabric would move, drape, etc. Do any of you have advice on how to familiarise myself with "how fabric works" in a material sense, beyond just personally studying it, taking my own thread-counts & thread sizes if not provided, etc, and playing with it, then exterpolating to medieval fabric? Thanks, Stephanie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 14:08:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RI8GMh005467 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:08:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RI74LV027254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RI6sEx076684; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:06:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RI66WD076099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:06:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j3RHxAmT018698 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:59:10 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <426FD48C.8040500@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:06:04 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Semi OT: amusing costume related X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm back from Venice, and will eventually put a travelog up on my webpage. Meanwhile, I was amused on the flight back. There were several channels on the in-the-seatback TVs (even in Economy) and one of them was running essentially infomercials for expensive products, disguised as "business analysis" of successful businesses. Gourmet food companies, luxury car companies, etc. One of them was DMC embroidery products. I wish I could have understood it better, as it was in rather fast French. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 15:37:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RJb4vF006362 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:37:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RJZZLV006270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:35:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RJYvS2056148; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:35:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out-mail03.yourhostingaccount.com (outmail.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.254.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RJYiCk055919 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:34:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from SRS0=xxRSbr=TE=sewingcity.com=becky@yourhostingaccount.com) Message-Id: <200504271934.j3RJYiCk055919@net.indra.com> Received: from scan08.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.238] helo=scan08.yourhostingaccount.com) by mail03.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DQsIy-0000nk-7j for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:34:40 -0400 Received: from authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.155] ident=exim) by scan08.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1DQsIy-0006Jb-LY for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:34:40 -0400 Received: from authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.155] helo=authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan08.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DQsIv-0006JK-8Q for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:34:37 -0400 Received: from pool-71-111-177-89.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.111.177.89] helo=random) by authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1DQsIs-00088F-RH for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:34:35 -0400 From: "Becky @ SewingCity.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:34:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <20050427054955.57501.qmail@web41826.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Thread-Index: AcVLQ9p2LSa1EgDBT4qEl9S1kxvCBwAG/u+w X-EN-UserInfo: 231a4af1c6595951fa0035d7a7dfc491:44225c88802e2dc5c324d40447d7bea9 X-EN-AuthUser: becky@sewingcity.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just love this book: Blackwork(Paperback)by Mary Gostelow, ISBN 0486401782 and this book: Blackwork Embroidery (Paperback) by Elisabeth Geddes, ISBN 048623245X You might be able to find these at your local library. I bought my copies from Amazon.com a while back. Hope this helps, Becky http://www.sewingcity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 16:02:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RK2RPs006580 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:02:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RJvaLV009524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:57:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RJvR6j078071; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:57:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RJvOjF077915 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:57:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so303220nzp for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:57:17 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=lgfSn1hH4Ygqf8iUjhm3aXR+40Zy7b+wzRlfSywc37nMqa0B+2+SbqXg0MhKSrs7W9m7/7eQLRdIRskNxB5VmdP8C83Soz2WUHkUymwgf2DQpSuVkv9+I2CDiw90MyrzM+UAgGP3IRXm29jtocl1hxxpGB7O5eoIJ7k71cMjSHY= Received: by 10.36.12.2 with SMTP id 2mr62206nzl; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.3 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:57:17 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3RJvOjF077915 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: how fabric moves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To figure out how fabric moves, I suggest you read a description of an extant garment treatment then recreate a small version of it, say the size of a big hankie. With the original undecorated, untreated material at one hand and the treated version on the other, see how the 2 vary in the way they hang over your hand, how they flutter (or not) when moved thru the air, see if they have bias stretch, whether they crease or make fat wavy folds, how they pool when touching the floor, etc. Below are 2 quick examples from Blanche Payne's book "History of Costume". As you read thru the descriptions, imagine how these 2 items, which differ in fiber, lining, weave and other ways, might react when held or worn. Consider how they might be similar. Golden doublet of Queen Elizabeth at the BMFA (from p. 315) "The fabric of the doublet is fine firm white linen, obviously from a superior weaver. The surface is covered with gold and silver embroidery in an endless scroll design enclosing a stylized flower. The background is thickly sewed with minute gold sequins. Gold lace finished the lower edge. Spanish child's garment - the underskirt (also from p. 315) "a layer of slipper weight satin backed by a sized linen and completely covered with closely placed silk embroidery done thru both thicknesses. This surface is in turn is overlaid with a heavily padded design couched in gold". I'm not suggesting that you spend gobs of time embroidering a sample, this just happens to be the page in Payne's book that was open. My point is, at minimum, to get you to pick up a square of linen, a square of silk satin and observe them in use. Get another square each of linen & satin, add ONE more treatment, such as flat lining, quilting, beading, buttonholes, washing to remove sizing, slashing or interfacing. As you do more projects with different fabrics, render the scraps with the more interesting treatments. Pretty soon, you'll have a good cross-section of fabrics vs treatments to learn from. If you dont use satin in your recreations, compare linen & good wool instead. In the garage, I have several boxes of sample treatments which I started making when I did modern tailoring. The experiments involved various interface weights on a variety of fabrics. Other experiments involve pad stitching, lining, interlinings, sleeveheads, starching and stiffeners, removal of glazes & sizing (slipper satin in particular is very sad w/o it's sizing). I have collections of failed and successful collars, cuffs, dags, lappets, button plackets and more. There's one very large binder with pages and pages of sample pockets in different fabrics, threads, stitch lengths, interfacings. When ever I want to look at, oh say, a double welt pocket in heavy silk satin, I can see that it wasnt successful and save myself that much time. They're also handy for demonstratiing techniques. FYI, I dont spend anytime with thread counts and other technical measures. In real life I'm an engineer, so I prefer to measure my success by the end results rather than scientific precision at the expense of "look and feel". --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com Message: 7 Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:49:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephanie Smith Subject: [h-cost] how fabric moves >>Cynthia wrote: "One of my personal pet peeves in costume recreation for this period is the use of modern upholstery weights. This is clearly not in keeping with the extant materials in collections at the Musee Cluny, Musee de Tissue in Lyon, Musee de la Mode et du Costume (at the Louvre) or the Musee de la Mode (at the Union Central des Arts Decoratifs.) Most of these museums have thorough catalogs of actual materials and some garments (usually partials, burial garments), some even have catalogs online." >I have a hard time looking at photographs of medieval fabric (or even modern fabric!) and making the connection to how the fabric would move, drape, etc. Do any of you have advice on how to familiarise myself with "how fabric works" in a material sense, beyond just personally studying it, taking my own thread-counts & thread sizes if not provided, etc, and playing with it, then exterpolating to medieval fabric? Thanks, Stephanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 16:04:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RK4OvH006635 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:04:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RK3hLV010477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:03:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RK3dWJ083917; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:03:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RK3WRI083723 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:03:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76953C6E6 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:03:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <426FF023.7060901@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:03:47 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... References: <20050427054955.57501.qmail@web41826.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050427054955.57501.qmail@web41826.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melody Watts wrote: > Hi > Can anyone point me in the direction of a simple book > or webpage that shows how to do Blackwork, basic > stiches and patterns? > I'd like a simple "primer" version so I can try to > make my next project look a little less ...bad..... > Thanks... The SCA stock clerk (sca.org) carries a booklet entitled "Wrought With Flowers of Black Silk", aka The Compleat Anachronist #115. It cost about $4.50 the last time I looked. It is 44 pages and it covers basic history, how to do the stiches, with some pattern outlines, and a glossary of diaper (fill-in) patterns plus a bibliography. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 16:18:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RKIn4o006843 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:18:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RGlHLV016584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:47:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGkvss004232; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:46:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RGkrfi004158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:46:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DQpgU-00019O-39; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:46:46 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:46:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20050427114646.2mu1jngsfiiw4gs0@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:46:46 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... References: <042720051623.3459.426FBC7A0001437700000D8322058861720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <35117.162.119.64.110.1114619400.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <35117.162.119.64.110.1114619400.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Diana Habra : > Me again, > > Here is a review of the book I mentioned. I remembered it being > relatively inexpensive and the review says it is $24.95. > > Here is the link: > > http://www.renaissancemagazine.com/books/new.html > Unfortunately, The New Carolingian Modelbook is *long* out of print. There's a copy available on Amazon for $92.00 Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 16:23:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RKNFu1006910 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:23:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RKMQLV012504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RKMIk3001231; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:22:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.172]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3RKMFW0001108 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:22:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 62704 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2005 20:22:09 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=2W6SxJmQtim+f1hyjBAV3qBSLt37EJO6nD3EHDzIqYCkFXUuMHZAEmOwPALtSWxOtHw0NIdz2DwTNK3eEmQ5D9kchxWcJSB+vduIWFV+Dvue8a0ScjWqwBZZbvcIY0DcNLJWgq2eMHPrbltUb1w8lES24FaxJ7op0CTEK4LdR78= ; Message-ID: <20050427202209.62702.qmail@web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:22:09 PDT Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:22:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: RE: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, abe.books has both VERY reasonably priced. Chris G. "Becky @ SewingCity.com" wrote: I just love this book: Blackwork(Paperback)by Mary Gostelow, ISBN 0486401782 and this book: Blackwork Embroidery (Paperback) by Elisabeth Geddes, ISBN 048623245X You might be able to find these at your local library. I bought my copies from Amazon.com a while back. Hope this helps, Becky http://www.sewingcity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 19:04:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RN4Zcc008464 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:04:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RMw0P8008732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:03:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RMhPDB033538; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:43:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mercury.mv.net (mercury.mv.net [199.125.85.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3RMhLfP033421 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:43:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from michelle@hamel.mv.com) Received: (qmail 2809 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2005 18:43:16 -0400 Received: from bnh-4-43.mv.com (HELO MICHELLE) (199.125.99.235) by mercury.mv.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 2005 18:43:16 -0400 X-Peer-Info: remote-ip 199.125.99.235 local-ip 199.125.85.40 local-name mercury.mv.net Message-ID: <1a1401c54b79$5c2dd240$e7627dc7@MICHELLE> From: "Michelle McKenney" To: "Historical Costume" , References: Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:34:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2739.300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: linings, medieval patterns? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings :-) Thank you for the tips and suggestions on linings! :-) Next question -- I'm a newbie at all this, and haven't sewn much beyond basic mending since Home Eq class quite a while ago. I've recently joined the SCA, and am interested in making some medieval garb, ~late 13th/mid 14th century. My sewing buddy has lots of mundane experience, but is uncomfortable without having a pattern to follow (not that I blame her ;-). So we've picked up several of the Big 3 patterns (on sale, of course ;-) that seem most medieval and got the best reviews from garb-smart ladies who evaluate such patterns on their web pages :-) But I can't help but wonder if a pattern intended to be "period" would be more correct to start from, and less work to make look period? Such as Period Patterns' pattern #21, "Cotehardies and Sideless Surcotes", seen here http://www.patternsoftime.com/cat40.html , second image from the top, perhaps? Or is there any other pattern you'd recommend to a sewing newbie who would like to have a fairly correct silhouette? I'm not yet experienced enough to tackle the fitting that is so integral to the body-skimming designs of the day, but I think that if I can baby-step my way into this, I'm more likely to be sucessful (and stay involved!) than if I try a mundane pattern and end up with something less than nice. I'm also interested in a nice houppelande pattern, to tackle later on ;-) thank you for any guidance! Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 19:19:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RNJYWE008600 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:19:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RNImLV011715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:18:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RNIjsP064152; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:18:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RNIeFF064018 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:18:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-166-230-178.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.166.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3RNIOiC027028 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:18:31 +1000 Message-ID: <000c01c54b7f$4ab605e0$b2e6a6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c54916$3fbc4b60$f9c08e45@COMPUTER> <001001c5492d$af1c4a70$0701a8c0@lazear1> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:16:30 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] overwhelming costumes (was OT-Magic Flute) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Example, if the lavish > ballgown on Anna as she dances with the King is delicious, and they comment, > that is a natural response and flows well both in and out of the story. > People would comment on a lovely ballgown at a dressy event. > > But, conversely, if people are spending too much time looking at all the > pretty dresses in a moment where they (the costumes) are drawing focus from > the action in the story, then the costumes are speaking too "loudly" and > should be appropriately toned down. > > It's a balancing act, of course, but ultimately, a good costumer develops a > gut instinct for it. > > angela but it's kinda hard if you (and your friends) are the type who look at the costumes no matter what, coz that's half the reason you're watching the movie. You've somehow got to tap into the 'normal' population of non costumers whose don't refer to scenes along the lines of "you know the scene at the beginning when she was wearing that red and gold brocade gown with the velvet trim and white sleeves..." ;-D so it certainly would be hard to find that balance when you don't understand it in the same light as a majority of your audience. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]iimetro.com.au Mr. Speaker, I said the honourable member was a liar it is true and I am sorry for it. The honourable member may place the punctuation where he pleases. Richard Brinsley Sheridan (1751-1816) British dramatist. On being asked to apologise for calling a fellow MP a liar. Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 19:20:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RNKKSE008603 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:20:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RNJpLV011799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:19:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RNJpfM065027; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RNIdAP063975 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:18:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-166-230-178.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.166.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3RNIOiA027028 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:18:27 +1000 Message-ID: <000b01c54b7f$48847fe0$b2e6a6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hoopskirts and comfort Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:35:34 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I live in a neighborhood with many old houses, and many of them do have very > big rooms, though not a lot of rooms. Also, I lived in two dorms that had > been dorms for a women's college in the 1860s. The hallways were huge, and > so were all the doors in the common areas. (The dorm rooms were small, > barely enough for two single beds and two small desks, and their doors were > normal-sized.) We were always told that the hallways and big doorways were > wide to accommodate the hoop skirts. I don't know if that's true, but it > certainly makes a lot of sense when you imagine a few dozen young women in > hoop skirts walking around at the same time. > > Gail Finke > (in Cincinnati, Ohio) But given that (judging by your description) the bedrooms were too small to accommodate a woman (or two if they were using shared rooms as they did when you were there) in a crinoline you have to wonder about that justification. I'd think it had more to do with fashion in architecture. I think the best test of this theory would be something like a gentleman's club where women would not be expected. If they still had large rooms and wide doorways I think we've fairly safely ruled out the idea that architecture changed for the sake of women's fashion. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]iimetro.com.au Mr. Speaker, I said the honourable member was a liar it is true and I am sorry for it. The honourable member may place the punctuation where he pleases. Richard Brinsley Sheridan (1751-1816) British dramatist. On being asked to apologise for calling a fellow MP a liar. Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 19:31:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RNV48Y008786 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:31:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RNUILV012729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:30:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RNUF7b073489; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:30:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RNUCCf073361 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:30:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.8]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:29:12 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshal" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:30:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <20050427114646.2mu1jngsfiiw4gs0@www.goldsword.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcVLTIdUUKIdYgzOR6mduaa9JsJLAgANHdIQ Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2005 23:29:12.0949 (UTC) FILETIME=[EB89A250:01C54B80] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Found one here.. http://www.renaissancemagazine.com/books/new.html hope this pans out, Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Susan B. Farmer Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:47 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... Quoting Diana Habra : > Me again, > > Here is a review of the book I mentioned. I remembered it being > relatively inexpensive and the review says it is $24.95. > > Here is the link: > > http://www.renaissancemagazine.com/books/new.html > Unfortunately, The New Carolingian Modelbook is *long* out of print. There's a copy available on Amazon for $92.00 Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 19:42:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3RNg7i0008886 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:42:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3RNfcLV014671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3RNfXxF083220; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:41:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3RNfPYK083053 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:41:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2005 23:41:19 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050428003210.014d2a48@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 00:41:26 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: linings, medieval patterns? In-Reply-To: <1a1401c54b79$5c2dd240$e7627dc7@MICHELLE> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 18:34 27/04/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Greetings :-) > >Thank you for the tips and suggestions on linings! :-) > >Next question -- I'm a newbie at all this, and haven't sewn much beyond >basic mending since Home Eq class quite a while ago. I've recently joined >the SCA, and am interested in making some medieval garb, ~late 13th/mid 14th >century. My sewing buddy has lots of mundane experience, but is >uncomfortable without having a pattern to follow (not that I blame her ;-). >So we've picked up several of the Big 3 patterns (on sale, of course ;-) >that seem most medieval and got the best reviews from garb-smart ladies who >evaluate such patterns on their web pages :-) > >But I can't help but wonder if a pattern intended to be "period" would be >more correct to start from, and less work to make look period? Such as >Period Patterns' pattern #21, "Cotehardies and Sideless Surcotes", seen here >http://www.patternsoftime.com/cat40.html , second image from the top, >perhaps? Or is there any other pattern you'd recommend to a sewing newbie >who would like to have a fairly correct silhouette? I'm not yet experienced >enough to tackle the fitting that is so integral to the body-skimming >designs of the day, but I think that if I can baby-step my way into this, >I'm more likely to be sucessful (and stay involved!) than if I try a mundane >pattern and end up with something less than nice. > >I'm also interested in a nice houppelande pattern, to tackle later on ;-) If you think you could cope with scaling up a pattern from a grid, there is a lovely houppelande in Jean Hunnisett's book, "Period Costume for Stage and Screen Medieval to 1500". Don't be put off by the title - these clothes are all thoroughly researched and based one paintings, statues, books of hours and other original sources. I can send you pictures of houppelandes made form this pattern, and a sideless surcoat from the same book if that would help. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 22:29:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3S2TTaF009977 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:29:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3S2ShLV007597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 20:28:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3S2STpl010675; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 20:28:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3S2SQcr010592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 20:28:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3S3jKPM010656 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 23:45:25 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort (was: New Simplicity) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:28:13 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200504272228.13776.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 27 April 2005 12:50 pm, Abel, Cynthia wrote: > Despite the criticism and cartoons of the time, most women who recorded > in diaries and letters I've found that actually wore crinolines under > their gowns, mentioned how comfortable they were to wear compared to the > many underpetticoats worn prior to its invention They're right. I've worn an 1860s style dress with a hoop skirt, and an 1840's style dress with 3 heavy petticoats, and it's a lot easier to walk in the former. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 27 23:28:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3S3SIp6010461 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 23:28:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3S3RdLV013359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:27:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3S3RZPh054681; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:27:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41808.mail.yahoo.com (web41808.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3S3RUbp054584 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:27:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 20305 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2005 03:27:24 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=kN8Izo3f1VITkq4O59BypS5FueFrS/c8rORzxdo6IzfSc4D9F24AI2uycrMYZyCtRXZWoHY8yfe1icBHWYfV25cgW3oJvZl2hmdFABvhH9poRaDjksBIDIwxHtWI1D56ydx53wYdz/MGPoHYhHJuUA/uUxlhRs5CvXbREXG3X4Q= ; Message-ID: <20050428032724.20303.qmail@web41808.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41808.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 20:27:24 PDT Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 20:27:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: linings, medieval patterns? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you'd like reviews on the big 3 and other specialized pattern companies, try the Greater Bay Area Costumer Guilds website. www.gbacg.org you can see photos of actual garments made by costumers using the patterns they review. Melody --- Michelle McKenney wrote: > Greetings :-) > SNIP > > Next question -- I'm a newbie at all this, .... > I've recently joined the SCA, and am interested in making some medieval garb, ~late 13th/mid 14th > century. My sewing buddy has lots of mundane > experience, but is uncomfortable without having a pattern to follow > So we've picked up several of the Big 3 patterns > that seem most medieval and got the best reviews > from garb-smart ladies who evaluate such patterns on their web pages :-) > > But I can't help but wonder if a pattern intended to > be "period" would be more correct to start from, and less work to make look period? Such as Period Patterns' pattern #21, "Cotehardies and > Sideless Surcotes", seen here > http://www.patternsoftime.com/cat40.html , second image from the top perhaps? > who would like to have a fairly correct silhouette? > I'm not yet experienced enough to tackle the fitting that is so integral to the body-skimming designs of the day, but I think that if I can baby-step my way into this, I'm more likely to be sucessful ...... > > I'm also interested in a nice houppelande pattern, > to tackle later on ;-) > > thank you for any guidance! > > Michelle > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 28 00:50:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3S4ohWg011076 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 00:50:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3S4njLV021609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:49:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3S4ncu2012077; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:49:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41829.mail.yahoo.com (web41829.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.94.163]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3S4naFb011994 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:49:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 36541 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2005 04:49:31 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=KadZaximFZH6gRZBmfHJDOVi/jV2QUAKIPrFbgpCX2m1IES/d4NmWGGAQUzfhTRRiIhibRfErH0hfD4Lkyrxqyyaq36xBHnbWtb7mO9JChtpIrS1o2LyWvVtuE/WY+pO9mx9mKk8/YDvHE+JwXghLotRPaDB+dKCAuMKaujgNnw= ; Message-ID: <20050428044931.36539.qmail@web41829.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.182.126] by web41829.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:49:31 PDT Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:49:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed... Thanks All! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to all the kind folks who replied to my question. I took a look at the books mentioned and found some I can afford right now, and I found them at ,of all places, Wal Mart Online..... seems they have a really decent section of books on all types of embroidery at good prices, too. Found a book on Charted Peasant Design from Saxon Transylvania - for 11th century on up-.... looks interesting,and a reasonalby priced too ....( The _Saxon Transylvania_ part did throw me though ) Also couldn't resist the DVD full frame gift set of Elizabeth R,with Glenda Jackson...was $58.87 I think it was this series that started me down the road of Renaissance Perdition...... Thanks again to all who answered! Melody --- Betsy Marshal wrote: > Found one here.. > > http://www.renaissancemagazine.com/books/new.html > > hope this pans out, Betsy > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Susan B. Farmer > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:47 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork > Basics needed..... > > Quoting Diana Habra : > > > Me again, > > > > Here is a review of the book I mentioned. I > remembered it being > > relatively inexpensive and the review says it is > $24.95. > > > > Here is the link: > > > > http://www.renaissancemagazine.com/books/new.html > > > Unfortunately, The New Carolingian Modelbook is > *long* out of print. > There's a copy available on Amazon for $92.00 > > Susan > > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 28 01:15:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3S5FYiD011210 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 01:15:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3S5EoLV023501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 23:14:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3S5ElOd027931; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 23:14:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omc2-s8.bay6.hotmail.com (omc2-s8.bay6.hotmail.com [65.54.249.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3S5Eil0027777 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 23:14:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.95]) by omc2-s8.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:14:38 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:14:39 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.208 by BAY106-DAV23.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 05:14:38 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.208] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1a1401c54b79$5c2dd240$e7627dc7@MICHELLE> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: medieval patterns? Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 01:14:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 01:14:38 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Apr 2005 05:14:39.0315 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D6A1A30:01C54BB1] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3S5FYiD011210 Status: RO Unlike many people, I've had some good experiences with Period Patterns, but #21 Cotehardies and Sideless Surcoats is pretty awful. It would probably need extensive altering to fit close to the body - mine turned out to be really unflattering and for several years it has been reserved for camp set-up and mucky weather. I would recommend their houplande pattern, even though it takes lots of fabric. You don't need to fit it - just belt it. It is flattering to all figures, as it accentuates the bust and hides everything else. The sleeve pattern looks improbable but it works. Fancy dagging is pretty easy if you read the directions first (draw the dags on the fabric, sew them together and THEN cut the design out.) The woman who designs the Period Patterns is quite tall so expect them to run very long. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 28 01:38:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3S5ciSU011355 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 01:38:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3S5bxLV025666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2005 23:37:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3S5bpDc043866; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 23:37:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f40.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3S5bkRT043726 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 23:37:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:37:41 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.96.16 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 05:37:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.16] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200504280450.j3S4ndgP012084@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 00:37:40 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Apr 2005 05:37:41.0171 (UTC) FILETIME=[65109830:01C54BB4] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Monmouth Cap X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just to share - my wife just finished the following web page on knitted "Monmouth" Caps and a suggestion of how to make them: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/jennifer/Monmouth.htm Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 28 10:54:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3SEs6OW018495 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:54:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3SEr9LV028384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SEqgt6028784; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:52:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SEq6I8028340 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:52:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1a5.365cbb54 (17079) for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:51:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <1a5.365cbb54.2fa2528e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:51:58 EDT Subject: [h-cost] Book or website on Blackwork Basics needed..... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's a book available from East Riddlesden Hall (National Trust property) in Yorkshire. It's a fabulous book, written by a man who retired and took up blackwork. As far as I know it's only available from the hall, but if you contact them they may be able to send a copy. debs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 28 14:42:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3SIgnHj021133 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:42:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3SIfILV000776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:41:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SIf6Xw039685; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:41:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail13.mdx.safepages.com (mail13.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SIf4Jr039608 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:41:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail13.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 7CC961386A3; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 18:41:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust38.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.38]) by mail13.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2DCF313895B for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 18:41:05 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <008a01c54c21$fdca6a20$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:42:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] tacuinum sanitatis X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3SIgnHj021133 Status: RO Can anyone tell me the specific date (and more identifying information) on this illustration from one of the Tacuinum Sanitatis manuscripts? I know there are several manuscripts from around the same date, but I can't pin down which of them this came from: http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/surcote10_tacuinim_sanitatis.gif , and I need a more exact date than just c1400-give-or-take-a-couple-of-decades. Taking a wild guess based on the hairstyle, I'd think this is Italian, but that still doesn't narrow it down enough for me. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 28 15:12:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3SJCiBK021338 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:12:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3SJBBLV005200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:11:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SJB7ha068073; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:11:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SJB0fa067947 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:11:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05055 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:26:34 -0500 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:26:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] tacuinum sanitatis In-Reply-To: <008a01c54c21$fdca6a20$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, E House wrote: > Can anyone tell me the specific date (and more identifying > information) on this illustration from one of the Tacuinum Sanitatis > manuscripts? I know there are several manuscripts from around the > same date, but I can't pin down which of them this came from: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/surcote10_tacuinim_sanitatis.gif , > and I need a more exact date than just > c1400-give-or-take-a-couple-of-decades. Taking a wild guess based on > the hairstyle, I'd think this is Italian, but that still doesn't > narrow it down enough for me. Sure. It's half a picture. You can see the full one (with a great example of a man's garment) in Marcel Thomas' "The Golden Age: Manuscript Painting at the Time of Jean, Duke of Berry." This is fol 25 of the "Paris" Tacuinum, which name refers to the owning institution (the Bibliotheque Nationale, MS Nouv. Acq. Fr. 1673), not the place of origin. The illuminators were probably from Lombardy, possibly Verona. It belonged to a member of the Visconti family in Milan, who must have acquired it between 1365 and 1405 based on marriage/death dates; a likely date would be 1380-plus, maybe 1380-1390. There's a long, rambling, and ultimately inconclusive discussion of dating in "The Medieval Health Handbook" by Arano. Bear in mind that the manuscripts of the Po Valley from this period included both French and Italian influences, so you sometimes get some pretty weird details and combinations. (E., I have these books if you want to read the discussion and to see other examples from the same ms and the related Tacuinum mss.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 28 16:27:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3SKRct2021900 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:27:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3SKQbLV015471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:26:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SKQURH037314; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:26:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tin.wightman.on.ca (tin.wightman.ca [216.249.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SKQPlV037172 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:26:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from orange.wightman.ca (orange-bk.wightman.on.ca [192.168.232.241]) by tin.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A960C339B3 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by orange.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F46D3B00B8 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tin.wightman.on.ca ([192.168.232.249]) by localhost (orange [192.168.232.241]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25431-04 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAIN (unknown [216.110.230.216]) by tin.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id A8118339A9 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001f01c54c30$af992e40$6400a8c0@MAIN> From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: References: <200504281800.j3SI0eJx003205@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:27:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at orange.wightman.ca X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: medieval patterns? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you're looking for an excellent alternative to Period Patterns, and want to do 13th or 14th century, I highly recommend the La Fleur de Lyse patterns, which we carry. In specific the People of the Medieval Gothic #LFDLMAG1314, which can be viewed here: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_18.html -- just scroll down about 1/3 of the way. These patterns are the result of in-depth research and are historically accurate, with excellent engineering and good sewing instructions, all reasons why we chose to carry this excellent line of patterns. Haven't used this particular pattern personally, but have used the Medieval Accessories pattern and found it excellent. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry historical sewing patterns; quality, hand-crafted cooperage; embroidery supplies, and more. www.5rivers.org - info@5rivers.org 519-799-5577 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 28 16:30:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3SKUbU3021920 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:30:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3SKTlLV015838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:29:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SKTljg040358; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:29:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from copper.wightman.on.ca (copper.wightman.ca [216.249.0.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SKThnj040286 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:29:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from orange.wightman.ca (orange-bk.wightman.on.ca [192.168.232.241]) by copper.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id F190D3F80A for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by orange.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D76643B00AD for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from copper.wightman.on.ca ([192.168.232.248]) by localhost (orange [192.168.232.241]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26066-07 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:29:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAIN (unknown [216.110.230.216]) by copper.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id F29963F82D for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000201c54c31$28d67920$6400a8c0@MAIN> From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: References: <200504281800.j3SI0eJx003205@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:27:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at orange.wightman.ca X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: medieval patterns? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you're looking for an excellent alternative to Period Patterns, and want to do 13th or 14th century, I highly recommend the La Fleur de Lyse patterns, which we carry. In specific the People of the Medieval Gothic #LFDLMAG1314, which can be viewed here: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_18.html -- just scroll down about 1/3 of the way. These patterns are the result of in-depth research and are historically accurate, with excellent engineering and good sewing instructions, all reasons why we chose to carry this excellent line of patterns. Haven't used this particular pattern personally, but have used the Medieval Accessories pattern and found it excellent. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry historical sewing patterns; quality, hand-crafted cooperage; embroidery supplies, and more. www.5rivers.org - info@5rivers.org 519-799-5577 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 08:43:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TChUjD029256 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:43:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TBqeLV013261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 05:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TBqUZa031924; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 05:52:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TBqSwB031819 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 05:52:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AFF3C4B009A; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:52:19 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.121 ([209.131.81.121] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 29 Apr 05 11:52:15 -0000 Message-ID: <001a01c54cb2$26563240$795183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:54:06 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] linen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3TChUjD029256 Status: RO If you haven't looked lately, there are some interesting linen 'earth' colors at fabric.com under $10 a yard. There are several "100%" choices in the hanky and lightweight section that I find quite appealing, Project for the real day...Black fly 'heads' for my daughter's upcoming Black Fly Festival in Vermont. Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 10:38:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TEcKtB030102 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:38:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TEbILV009173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TEb4nF052050; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:37:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TEb2Eq051938 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:37:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.211]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050429143656.WMYO19201.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:36:56 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050429091341.029e8760@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:20:09 -0500 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] NESAT 8 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I received a flyer today announcing the availability of NESAT 8. I will be mailing my order shortly. As most NESAT volumes, there are a lot of interesting scholarly papers, most of which are in English with several in German. Beth Matney Priceless Invention of Humanity - Textiles (NESAT 8) Acta Archaeologica Lodziensia Nr 50/1 edited by Jerzy Maik. Instytut Archaeologii I Etnologii Pan. Lodz Poland (2004). 200pp. 30 euro plus 6 euro shipping. Contact: archeo@cbmm.lodz.pl _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 10:40:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TEe1gp030124 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:40:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TEdKLV009604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:39:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TEdKKY053968; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:39:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SHVh9l076308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:31:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:36620 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DRCrT-0001XT-Qi for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:31:40 -0400 Received: from 198.93.212.10 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2358.198.93.212.10.1114709501.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hoops and comfort From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.212.10 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <426DAF6D.2080606@lavoltapress.com> References: <200504240527.j3O5RZS5031388@net.indra.com><000a01c548d4$70a67170$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <49182.209.249.180.89.1114351050.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <035601c5490b$6bac2980$0400a8c0@compaqub><7c7e542c4a7cdf62e3f6f158240fdbdb@ntw.net> <426C0D0E.50201@lavoltapress.com> <49166.209.249.180.16.1114383209.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <426C3CAB.6080404@lavoltapress.com> <4132.198.93.213.17.1114483493.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> <426DAF6D.2080606@lavoltapress.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO no, I didn't realize, but I did guess that at worst it was a brain glitch, which I am subject to now and then. LOL mine's a product of getting old I guess. I have 'em more than I used to. Kitty > Just bad email editing/cut and paste, as I'm sure you realize. Just like > you probably realize that as the beginning of your first sentence, > "urban" should be captalized. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > basyefelton@floodcity.net wrote: > >>>Note that urban versus city living has a strong effect on house size. >>> In the country, where land is more available, people tended as a very >>> general rule to build bigger houses. >>> >>> >>> >> >>urban IS City. Rural is country. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 10:45:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TEjWKo030165 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:45:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TEirLV010446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:44:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TEilnV058079; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:44:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SJ6e16063653 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:06:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@redtrollforge.com) Received: from katscomputer (ip245.129.du.eli.iinet.com [67.136.129.245]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62F871381 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:06:34 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@redtrollforge.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:06:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] tacuinum sanitatis Message-ID: <4270D1C6.6151.37F40A58@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <008a01c54c21$fdca6a20$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Can anyone tell me the specific date (and more identifying > information) on this illustration from one of the Tacuinum Sanitatis > manuscripts? I know there are several manuscripts from around the > same date, but I can't pin down which of them this came from: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/surcote10_tacuinim_sanitatis.gif , > and I need a more exact date than just > c1400-give-or-take-a-couple-of-decades. Taking a wild guess based on > the hairstyle, I'd think this is Italian, but that still doesn't > narrow it down enough for me. I thought I'd seen a date of 1380 somewhere but the closest thing I can actually find without a more in depth look through my books is "late 14th C, Po River Valley" which is indeed in Italy. (I could only find 1 of the 3 books I have on that manuscript.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 10:45:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TEjtE8030172 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:45:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TEjMLV010532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:45:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TEjMhf058646; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:45:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alexander.concentric.com (alexander.concentric.com [207.155.248.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3SJJil5075909 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:19:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by alexander.concentric.com id PAA13840; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:19:42 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200504281919.PAA13840@alexander.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:19:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200504281801.j3SI0eK0003205@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3SJJil5075909 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Monmouth Cap X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wish that had been around when I did my arts entry of a Monmouth cap. And just to keep the judges on their toes, I did the knitting on one of the round peg knitters. Yes, you CAN turn a hem on a peg knitter Julie > > Just to share - my wife just finished the following web page on knitted > "Monmouth" Caps and a suggestion of how to make them: > > http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/jennifer/Monmouth.htm > > Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 10:51:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TEpEKh030203 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:51:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TEoSLV011364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:50:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TEoPGL063147; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:50:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3T2krG8095380 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:46:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Susannah9810@aol.com) Received: from Susannah9810@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.2b.722eccc3 (4380) for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:46:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Susannah9810@aol.com Message-ID: <2b.722eccc3.2fa2fa0c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:46:36 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Comfort To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I went for several years without wearing jeans at all once I really started to appreciate historic garments. Every single day for two years, as a personal choice and to try to gain some insight into how it really felt to live, move, eat, and perform chores, I dressed from the skin out in appropriate period garments, including undergarments. That would include, of course, corseting, shifts, the whole shebang. I threw away all my brassieres and pantyhose just to be sure I wouldn't cheat. I chose Saundra Altman's sensible stays as my personal favorites, but did also wear 18th century and mid-19th century stays as I was going between several house sites at the time, each of which did a different era. You might say I am "multi-era." Anyway, the point is, after about 5 years of going without wearing jeans (or any type of undergarment that was younger than c. 1865), one day I decided to put them on, thinking that they would be comfortable and practical for something I needed to do. About fifteen minutes later they came right back off again, and I thankfully pulled back on my old tried-and-true early 19th c. work gown instead. I got rid of them and have never put on a pair of jeans --or any other type of modern pants --since. What I remember thinking was, "I just cannot stand this feeling of being corseted below the waist! EEeeeeeuuuww --let me out!!" My 2c, Susannah Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker and Fine Tailoring _www.virginvintage.com_ (http://www.virginvintage.com) "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 10:51:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TEpg2a030210 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:51:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TEp6LV011500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:51:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TEp6Ge063814; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:51:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.fuse.net (mail-out3.fuse.net [216.68.8.176]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3T6UtM3032677 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 00:30:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jemarshall@fuse.net) Received: from gx6.fuse.net ([216.196.141.252]) by smtp3.fuse.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with ESMTP id <20050429062605.QFCC7464.smtp3.fuse.net@gx6.fuse.net> for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:26:05 -0400 Received: from netzero.fuse.net ([216.196.141.252]) by gx6.fuse.net (InterMail vG.1.02.00.02 201-2136-104-102-20041210) with ESMTP id <20050429062513.GENE21147.gx6.fuse.net@netzero.fuse.net> for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:25:13 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20050429021307.00ae7320@pop.fuse.net> X-Sender: jemarshall@pop.fuse.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:19:37 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J.E. Marshall" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-65B44B7C X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Louis of Hungary X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am wanting to make my husband King Louis of Hungary's robes, does anyone know of a better picture of wither this or a similar outfit? I think that I am making some heads or tails out to the pattern pieces drawn out, but I am still a little shaky on the construction and any closures that it might have. The robe itself does look similar to the cut of the men's loose gown in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion. http://www.virtue.to/guest_authors/hungarian.html Here's the link to the only picture that I have been able to find so far. ANY help will be appreciated. Jennifer (Lost in Cincinnati) what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail? Anon. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.4 - Release Date: 4/27/05 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 10:52:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TEqHOi030222 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:52:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TEpdLV011581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:51:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TEpcPG064216; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:51:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TBidlT026867 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 05:44:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Susannah9810@aol.com) Received: from Susannah9810@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.e5.124be12d (3940) for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:35:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Susannah9810@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:35:37 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] practicality of dress & petticoats To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I could go on about this subject at length, but will just add "ditto" to what Joan said. Sensible stays are wonderful. I will mention that I own a copy of an original c. 1850s corded petticoat that was copied for me by a weaver, who wove the cording into a cotton & wool somewhat loosely woven plainweave fabric. The original is owned by a lady in Charleston, SC. I am one of those wierd Civil War living historians who doesn't wear a hoop, but wears one lightweight cotton, one linen, and a corded petticoat instead. I portray a nurse during field hospital set-ups at house sites, and we are not supposed to wear hoops, (some period photographs to the contrary). I do not notice the weight, really, and I am in the South, so there is the aspect of personal warmth. If I am really warm, I go into an upstairs room in the house and take off the dress & a couple petticoats & rest for awhile --just like my forebears. Best regards, Susannah Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker and Fine Tailoring _www.virginvintage.com_ (http://www.virginvintage.com) "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 10:52:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TEqsGd030226 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:52:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TEqELV011691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:52:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TEqDek064809; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:52:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from COMM1.connally.org (comm1.connally.org [207.54.224.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TEq6c9064640 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:52:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tthreadgill@connally.org) Received: from cisd-MTA by COMM1.connally.org with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:50:45 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:50:11 -0500 From: "Theresa Threadgill" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] NESAT 8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Beth, We met at war and you let me look at your books. My friend fell in love with the book dealing with all of the different types of sheep and she has been looking ever since for a copy and can't find one. What I want to do is find one for her and several of my friends are going in together to pay for it. One minor problem I didn't look at the author or title of the book. Can you give me that information please? Any ideas where to get a copy would also be appreciated. We've really been haveing fun lately, I have starting learning how to take raw wool and end up with a finished product. so far I am fairly slow hopefully with time will get faster at combing and spinning, I knit and weave fairly well but you have to have the spun stuff first :) thanks theresa >>> bmatney@alltel.net 4/29/2005 9:20:09 AM >>> I received a flyer today announcing the availability of NESAT 8. I will be mailing my order shortly. As most NESAT volumes, there are a lot of interesting scholarly papers, most of which are in English with several in German. Beth Matney Priceless Invention of Humanity - Textiles (NESAT 8) Acta Archaeologica Lodziensia Nr 50/1 edited by Jerzy Maik. Instytut Archaeologii I Etnologii Pan. Lodz Poland (2004). 200pp. 30 euro plus 6 euro shipping. Contact: archeo@cbmm.lodz.pl _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 11:03:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TF3hRC030400 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:03:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TF2eLV012968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TF2SjG073602; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:02:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TF2PmM073523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:02:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j3TF2MOp021861 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:02:22 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:04:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <001a01c54cb2$26563240$795183d1@rmitchellras> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] linen and silk X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is also linen at $8.00 a yard at fashionfabricsclub.com and check out the silk twill and silk handkerchief linen weave at $5.00 a yard! www.fashionfabrics.com Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:54 AM > To: H-Costume > Subject: [h-cost] linen > > > If you haven't looked lately, there are some interesting linen > 'earth' colors at fabric.com under $10 a yard. There are several > "100%" choices in the hanky and lightweight section that I find > quite appealing, > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 11:13:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TFD8It030471 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:13:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TFBwLV014229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:11:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TFBqTQ081871; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:11:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3TFBm6u081796 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:11:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-27363); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:10:33 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:10:29 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050429081042.00dae1b0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:11:29 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen and silk In-Reply-To: References: <001a01c54cb2$26563240$795183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The URL is actually www.fashionfabricsclub.com (the other URL goes to a web hosting site). At 08:04 AM 4/29/2005 -0700, you wrote: >There is also linen at $8.00 a yard at fashionfabricsclub.com and check out >the silk twill and silk handkerchief linen weave at $5.00 a yard! >www.fashionfabrics.com > >Regina > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell > > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:54 AM > > To: H-Costume > > Subject: [h-cost] linen > > > > > > If you haven't looked lately, there are some interesting linen > > 'earth' colors at fabric.com under $10 a yard. There are several > > "100%" choices in the hanky and lightweight section that I find > > quite appealing, > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 11:32:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TFWUL3030704 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:32:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TFUnMF017523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:31:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TFRdAL096607; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:27:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TFRZ6s096514 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:27:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m87.in-tch.com [216.166.191.87]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j3TFN9429371 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:23:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <427253B2.8040306@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:33:06 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] NESAT 8 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/858/Thu Apr 28 08:02:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not Beth (well, it *is* my middle name, so maybe that's good enoug?), but I'm willing to bet that the book your friend was talking about is called "In Sheep's Clothing: A Handspinner's Guide to Wool." It's written by Nola & Jane Fournier, and is published by Interweave Press (www.interweave.com). --Sue, slowly working her own way through wooly fiber arts ;-) Theresa Threadgill wrote: > Hey Beth, > > We met at war and you let me look at your books. My friend fell in > love with the book dealing with all of the different types of sheep and > she has been looking ever since for a copy and can't find one. What I > want to do is find one for her and several of my friends are going in > together to pay for it. One minor problem I didn't look at the author > or title of the book. Can you give me that information please? Any > ideas where to get a copy would also be appreciated. We've really been > haveing fun lately, I have starting learning how to take raw wool and > end up with a finished product. so far I am fairly slow hopefully with > time will get faster at combing and spinning, I knit and weave fairly > well but you have to have the spun stuff first :) > > thanks > theresa > > >>>>bmatney@alltel.net 4/29/2005 9:20:09 AM >>> > > I received a flyer today announcing the availability of NESAT 8. I will > be > mailing my order shortly. > > As most NESAT volumes, there are a lot of interesting scholarly papers, > > most of which are in English with several in German. > > Beth Matney > > Priceless Invention of Humanity - Textiles (NESAT 8) Acta Archaeologica > > Lodziensia Nr 50/1 edited by Jerzy Maik. Instytut Archaeologii I > Etnologii > Pan. Lodz Poland (2004). 200pp. 30 euro plus 6 euro shipping. > > Contact: archeo@cbmm.lodz.pl > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 13:08:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TH8Pfl031414 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:08:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TH7WLV001160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:07:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TH7PJE086514; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:07:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from COMM1.connally.org (comm1.connally.org [207.54.224.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TH7JEH086436 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:07:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tthreadgill@connally.org) Received: from cisd-MTA by COMM1.connally.org with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:06:06 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:05:46 -0500 From: "Theresa Threadgill" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] hunting for a book and a person X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am hunting for Beth of SCA Little Grey Bear Barony. She went to Mississippi to war and I met her and looked at her books and was able to get some fantastic information. I was the amputee that she met. I am looking for a book that had a blue and white paper cover hardback that had a man in a field with sheep. It talked about the breeds of sheep there were pictures of each breed the climate they liked how they were to raise the type of wool they had and so forth. But I forgot to write down the name and author of that particular book. She had given me a business card but I seem to have lost it since then. Any help would be appreciated. Also Sue sent me one name In Sheep's Clothing but that wasn't it. Although I am going to get it it looked interesting. So thanks Sue. Thanks to all Theresa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 13:09:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TH9dIZ031421 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:09:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TH93LV001354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:09:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TH93CG087944; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:09:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TH90AW087773 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:09:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.74]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050429170851.IOPT19201.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:08:51 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050429111422.02ba5c70@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:08:43 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200504291527.j3TFReYo096614@net.indra.com> References: <200504291527.j3TFReYo096614@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3TH90AW087773 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sheep was NESAT 8 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Theresa, I enjoyed our short time to visit. Let me know the next time you're coming near Arkansas. Sorry Sue, wrong guess, but now I've got to find your suggestion... What I have is "Sheep and Man" by M.L.Ryder. 856 pages (October 27, 1983) Publisher: Gerald Duckworth & Co. Ltd ISBN: 0715616552 This is a massive (more than 2 inches thick) volume by the expert of his time... I don't know of anything remotely comparable, though I'm still looking! There is a used copy available on Amazon UK but I don't think that you want to pay £705.70 http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/ow/cb57f81fc24e556ba19afeb4da09e526.html will tell you the participating US and CA libraries that have a copy. I've had my copy for about 15 years.. originally bought it at Half-Price Books in Dallas, TX. Take care. Beth At 10:27 AM 4/29/2005, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:33:06 -0600 >From: Sue Clemenger >Subject: Re: [h-cost] NESAT 8 >To: Historical Costume > >I'm not Beth (well, it *is* my middle name, so maybe that's good >enoug?), but I'm willing to bet that the book your friend was talking >about is called "In Sheep's Clothing: A Handspinner's Guide to Wool." >It's written by Nola & Jane Fournier, and is published by Interweave >Press (www.interweave.com). >--Sue, slowly working her own way through wooly fiber arts ;-) > >Theresa Threadgill wrote: > > Hey Beth, > > > > We met at war and you let me look at your books. My friend fell in > > love with the book dealing with all of the different types of sheep and > > she has been looking ever since for a copy and can't find one. What I > > want to do is find one for her and several of my friends are going in > > together to pay for it. One minor problem I didn't look at the author > > or title of the book. Can you give me that information please? Any > > ideas where to get a copy would also be appreciated. We've really been > > haveing fun lately, I have starting learning how to take raw wool and > > end up with a finished product. so far I am fairly slow hopefully with > > time will get faster at combing and spinning, I knit and weave fairly > > well but you have to have the spun stuff first :) > > > > thanks > > theresa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 14:06:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TI6AJH032442 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:06:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TI5QLV008369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:05:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TI5Bsw037645; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:05:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from COMM1.connally.org (comm1.connally.org [207.54.224.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TI2YYx035384 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:02:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tthreadgill@connally.org) Received: from cisd-MTA by COMM1.connally.org with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:01:21 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:00:58 -0500 From: "Theresa Threadgill" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sheep was NESAT 8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j3TI2YYx035384 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks and no don't want to pay that I think it ends up being about 1300 dollars. I don't like anyone that much except maybe me and not for a book. But now that I have the name I can watch for it in all the book stores I go to. School will be out in about 4 weeks and I get to spend more time doing things. I am learning all sorts of new things but have to go so slow while school is in session that it is frustrating. Met someone last weekend not far from you, she came down for the Vicking fest here in Waco and we talked for a while and I learned a new way to weave with sticks very interesting. Well lunch is over and students are coming in take care talk later theresa >>> bmatney@alltel.net 4/29/2005 12:08:43 PM >>> Hi Theresa, I enjoyed our short time to visit. Let me know the next time you're coming near Arkansas. Sorry Sue, wrong guess, but now I've got to find your suggestion... What I have is "Sheep and Man" by M.L.Ryder. 856 pages (October 27, 1983) Publisher: Gerald Duckworth & Co. Ltd ISBN: 0715616552 This is a massive (more than 2 inches thick) volume by the expert of his time... I don't know of anything remotely comparable, though I'm still looking! There is a used copy available on Amazon UK but I don't think that you want to pay £705.70 http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/ow/cb57f81fc24e556ba19afeb4da09e526.html will tell you the participating US and CA libraries that have a copy. I've had my copy for about 15 years.. originally bought it at Half-Price Books in Dallas, TX. Take care. Beth At 10:27 AM 4/29/2005, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:33:06 -0600 >From: Sue Clemenger >Subject: Re: [h-cost] NESAT 8 >To: Historical Costume > >I'm not Beth (well, it *is* my middle name, so maybe that's good >enoug?), but I'm willing to bet that the book your friend was talking >about is called "In Sheep's Clothing: A Handspinner's Guide to Wool." >It's written by Nola & Jane Fournier, and is published by Interweave >Press (www.interweave.com). >--Sue, slowly working her own way through wooly fiber arts ;-) > >Theresa Threadgill wrote: > > Hey Beth, > > > > We met at war and you let me look at your books. My friend fell in > > love with the book dealing with all of the different types of sheep and > > she has been looking ever since for a copy and can't find one. What I > > want to do is find one for her and several of my friends are going in > > together to pay for it. One minor problem I didn't look at the author > > or title of the book. Can you give me that information please? Any > > ideas where to get a copy would also be appreciated. We've really been > > haveing fun lately, I have starting learning how to take raw wool and > > end up with a finished product. so far I am fairly slow hopefully with > > time will get faster at combing and spinning, I knit and weave fairly > > well but you have to have the spun stuff first :) > > > > thanks > > theresa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 15:14:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TJEAKl000820 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:14:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TJD6LV017115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TJCppJ097466; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:12:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TJClsl097302 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:12:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:12:39 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:12:33 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Rib removal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There was some discussion here awhile back that the story of ribs being surgically removed by Victorian ladies to fit into their corsets better was really a myth. I have a reference librarian at a local history of medicine library that is willing to help me do some research on this to see if we can find anything. What I am wondering if anyone has an anywhere-near-to-primary/secondary source for this that they could give me the information on. Even a rough idea of what year/era it might have been done would be helpful. Thanks and stay tuned, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 17:59:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TLxpiw002700 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:59:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3THErLV002040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:14:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3THEod5092897; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:14:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3THElma092846 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:14:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j3THEkBO003539 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050429131417.01e1b3c8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:14:44 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] hunting for a book and a person In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try "Sheep and Man" by Ryder. Bridgette >I am hunting for Beth of SCA Little Grey Bear Barony. She went to >Mississippi to war and I met her and looked at her books and was able to >get some fantastic information. I was the amputee that she met. I am >looking for a book that had a blue and white paper cover hardback that >had a man in a field with sheep. It talked about the breeds of sheep >there were pictures of each breed the climate they liked how they were >to raise the type of wool they had and so forth. But I forgot to write >down the name and author of that particular book. She had given me a >business card but I seem to have lost it since then. Any help would be >appreciated. > >Also Sue sent me one name In Sheep's Clothing but that wasn't it. >Although I am going to get it it looked interesting. So thanks Sue. > >Thanks to all >Theresa Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 18:03:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TM3u7e002754 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:03:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TI8gLV008800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TI8cU9040780; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:08:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TI8T9V040645 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:08:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TI8WYJ022778 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:08:32 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.92.115] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-92-115.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.115]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TI8Nlp391284 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:08:28 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050429105515.025df150@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:56:43 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Louis of Hungary In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20050429021307.00ae7320@pop.fuse.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I am wanting to make my husband King Louis of Hungary's robes, does anyone >know of a better picture of wither this or a similar outfit? I think that >I am making some heads or tails out to the pattern pieces drawn out, but I >am still a little shaky on the construction and any closures that it might >have. The robe itself does look similar to the cut of the men's loose >gown in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion. > >http://www.virtue.to/guest_authors/hungarian.html > >Here's the link to the only picture that I have been able to find so far. > >ANY help will be appreciated. I seem to recall that the Hungarians at this time wore clothes similar to those Italianate things the Germans were wearing at the same time. So that might be a direction to try. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 19:06:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TN6VFa003232 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:06:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TN5lLV022089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:05:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TN5Vuh093252; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:05:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TN4Gc4092301 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:04:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from colleen.mcdonald@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.205.145 ([204.127.205.145]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20050429230410016002kulde>; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:04:10 +0000 Received: from [192.150.22.150] by 204.127.205.145; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:04:10 +0000 From: colleen.mcdonald@comcast.net To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:04:10 +0000 Message-Id: <042920052304.8668.4272BD6A000213B7000021DC22007623020B040E02010B0C03D2020A0A0404010C@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Y29sbGVlbi5tY2RvbmFsZEBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Photography at SF Legion of Honor museum? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I'm headed to San Francisco on a business trip this weekend and was wondering if anyone here knows if the Legion of Honor museum allows non-flash photography? I couldn't find anything on their web site stating their policy. I'm trying to decide whether or not to take the camera. Thanks, Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 19:31:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3TNV1D8003352 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:31:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TNUTLV025449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:30:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TNTsKP011498; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:29:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3TNTpid011437 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:29:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.73]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TNTo2h025052 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:29:50 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.49.239] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.239]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3TNTnOR124488 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:29:50 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050429161715.03a74e18@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:18:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rib removal In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >There was some discussion here awhile back that the story of ribs being >surgically removed by Victorian ladies to fit into their corsets better >was really a myth. I have a reference librarian at a local history of >medicine library that is willing to help me do some research on this to >see if we can find anything. The rumor, as I have heard it, is that one woman, in the mid-to-late 1800s or very early 1900s, did this. Check the urban legend websites. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 20:37:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U0bd5Z003654 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:37:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U0afLV001431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U0aZbR054249; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:36:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U0aVmp054150 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:36:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.166] (pm5-166.eos.net [205.133.149.166]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j3U0aPgA016738 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:36:25 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:28:47 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200504291527.j3TFReYo096614@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] unicorn tapestries and dye X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Apropos to our discussion a while ago about dyes and fading -- a friend sent me this link to a story about computer-imaging the fronts and backs of the Unicorn Tapestries at the Met. It's from the New Yorker, so it's long. But it's fascinating, with all sorts of information about the backs of the tapestries, very high-level math, computer imaging, and art. http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050411fa_fact Enjoy! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 21:16:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U1GDn4003926 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:16:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U1FYLV004935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:15:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U1FUXO077949; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:15:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U1FSss077816 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:15:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050430011517.GRII5260.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:15:17 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.153.224.20]) by pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050430011517.YKLM7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:15:17 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.11.0]); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:15:22 +1200 Message-ID: <005701c54d22$14b9b9b0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.2.7.2.20050429021307.00ae7320@pop.fuse.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Louis of Hungary Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:15:20 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have some that were sent to me by the lady who gave me these: http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/mary/index.htm I can send you the full sized images if you have a program to clean them up a bit, or if you don't mind waiting a few days I can tryto clean them up and put them on my website. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com > I am wanting to make my husband King Louis of Hungary's robes, does anyone > know of a better picture of wither this or a similar outfit? I think that > I am making some heads or tails out to the pattern pieces drawn out, but I > am still a little shaky on the construction and any closures that it might > have. The robe itself does look similar to the cut of the men's loose gown > in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion. > > http://www.virtue.to/guest_authors/hungarian.html > > Here's the link to the only picture that I have been able to find so far. > > ANY help will be appreciated. > > Jennifer (Lost in Cincinnati) > > what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail? Anon. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 29/04/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 21:22:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U1MMJZ003950 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:22:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U1LcLV005489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:21:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U1Lap4081582; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:21:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.144]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U1LWQw081519 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:21:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050430012126.IGIX23759.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:21:26 +1200 Received: from michaela ([222.153.224.20]) by pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050430012126.YLEO7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:21:26 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.11.0]); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:21:31 +1200 Message-ID: <005d01c54d22$f0ed7d90$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20050429161715.03a74e18@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rib removal Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:21:31 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >There was some discussion here awhile back that the story of ribs being > >surgically removed by Victorian ladies to fit into their corsets better > >was really a myth. I have a reference librarian at a local history of > >medicine library that is willing to help me do some research on this to > >see if we can find anything. > > The rumor, as I have heard it, is that one woman, in the mid-to-late 1800s > or very early 1900s, did this. Check the urban legend websites. It's only ever rumour and even now I only found maybe three sites of plastic surgeons who claimed to do it. The sites were far from professional looking though, and probably not reputable. People do get ribs removed now, but for proper medical reasons. Snoops says it's all legend, they can be wrong of course, but every person who was actually claimed to have had it done has proved false. I'll have to hunt down the particulars of one non English case, but it involves hunting through a forum that is pretty busy. And it was probably a rumour because of political intrigue. Besides, tightlacers get waists that are tiny without rib removal, so it doesn't seem like a good reason to get them removed. I could believe it a bit more in eras without corsetry. michaela http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 29/04/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 21:35:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U1ZAcX004014 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:35:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U1YcLV007192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:34:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U1YVpb089526; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:34:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3U1YTlA089450 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:34:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 10113 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2005 01:53:08 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:53:08 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1057.24.4.69.40.1114824866.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <042920052304.8668.4272BD6A000213B7000021DC22007623020B040E02010B0C03D 2020A0A0404010C@comcast.net> References: <042920052304.8668.4272BD6A000213B7000021DC22007623020B040E02010B0C03D2020A0A0404010C@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photography at SF Legion of Honor museum? From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi all, > > I'm headed to San Francisco on a business trip this weekend and was > wondering if anyone here knows if the Legion of Honor museum allows > non-flash photography? I couldn't find anything on their web site stating > their policy. I don't know what their policy is but my theory is....take the camera, don't use the flash and keep taking pictures unless they ask you to stop. The main reasons they don't want you to use a flash are: --bright light degrades the painting/fabric --they want to sell more catalogs No flash means no bright light and no damage to paintings/fabrics. And since the catalogs never seem to show us what we want to see (i.e. portrait details or costume details), I say use the camera. As long as you are going to use the pictures for your own reference and not to make money, go for it! Just my 2 cents, Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 21:46:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U1kuWI004063 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:46:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U1kFLV008412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:46:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U1k9CO097596; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:46:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3U1k7PU097568 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:46:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-5026); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:46:07 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:46:02 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050429184100.00da3d10@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:45:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rib removal In-Reply-To: <005d01c54d22$f0ed7d90$0301010a@michaela> References: <4.3.1.2.20050429161715.03a74e18@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:21 PM 4/30/2005 +1200, you wrote: > > >There was some discussion here awhile back that the story of ribs being > > >surgically removed by Victorian ladies to fit into their corsets better > > >was really a myth. I have a reference librarian at a local history of > > >medicine library that is willing to help me do some research on this to > > >see if we can find anything. > > > > The rumor, as I have heard it, is that one woman, in the mid-to-late 1800s > > or very early 1900s, did this. Check the urban legend websites. > >It's only ever rumour and even now I only found maybe three sites of plastic >surgeons who claimed to do it. The sites were far from professional looking >though, and probably not reputable. > >People do get ribs removed now, but for proper medical reasons. > >Snoops says it's all legend, they can be wrong of course, but every person >who was actually claimed to have had it done has proved false. > >I'll have to hunt down the particulars of one non English case, but it >involves hunting through a forum that is pretty busy. And it was probably a >rumour because of political intrigue. > >Besides, tightlacers get waists that are tiny without rib removal, so it >doesn't seem like a good reason to get them removed. I could believe it a >bit more in eras without corsetry. > > >michaela >http://glittersweet.com And of course in pre-antibiotic days (before WW II), such intrusive surgery could be a death sentence, which seems a bit steep just for a tiny waist. Tight corsetting was less dangerous, even though it was not healthy and was constantly condemned by the medical doctors in the 19th century (when the tiny waist seems to become especially fashionable). Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 22:11:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U2Bbhm004158 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:11:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U2AbLV009804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:10:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U2AUNI012258; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:10:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U2ARPn012188 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:10:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([142.173.89.74]) by priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with SMTP id <20050430021022.QAO13630.priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:10:22 -0600 Message-ID: <001c01c54d2a$b2335180$4a59ad8e@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:17:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fw: grease on clothes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j3U2Bbhm004158 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: marie hurley To: edith reardon Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 3:24 PM Subject: grease on clothes Hi Edith, for some reason I can't post on the costume group. Would you post this question for me? How do you get grease (the black grease that you grease truck axles with) out of a white cotton shirt? Marie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 22:17:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U2HFMn004183 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:17:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U2GdLV010218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:16:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U2GahC016036; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:16:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U2GXWn015947 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:16:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.99.5d86049b (4328) for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:16:21 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <99.5d86049b.2fa44475@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:16:21 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: grease on clothes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/29/2005 10:11:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, edieann@telus.net writes: How do you get grease (the black grease that you grease truck axles with) out of a white cotton shirt? One product I have had good luck with is called Tar and Bug Remover. Used to be able to get it at auto supply stores, although I haven't bought any in a long time. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 23:26:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U3QUPd004545 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:26:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U3PYLV015644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:25:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U3PReJ057655; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:25:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:44b7lpExZjvUvnXyEpPtkqe8EG+3ycYV@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U3PPRO057571 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:25:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.110] (pool180-111.patriot.net [209.249.180.111]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j3U3OxpT007233 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:25:20 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <005d01c54d22$f0ed7d90$0301010a@michaela> References: <4.3.1.2.20050429161715.03a74e18@mail.frys.com> <005d01c54d22$f0ed7d90$0301010a@michaela> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:21:06 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rib removal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This may be in the archives. From the Ziegfield Follies, it was the wife of one of the owners who was also a Follies Girl. I think the last name was Feld. That was apparently the known case of a woman having ribs removed. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 29 23:41:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U3fKt1004623 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:41:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U3eiLV016683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:40:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U3ebsQ067311; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:40:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail13.mdx.safepages.com (mail13.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U3eX0J067168 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:40:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail13.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 557F01387AD; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 03:40:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust209.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.209]) by mail13.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C6CA1386E4 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 03:40:19 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00f801c54d36$813787c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] tacuinum sanitatis Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:41:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" > Sure. It's half a picture. You can see the full one (with a great example > of a man's garment) in Marcel Thomas' "The Golden Age: Manuscript Painting > at the Time of Jean, Duke of Berry." > Bear in mind that the manuscripts of the Po Valley from this period > included both French and Italian influences, so you sometimes get some > pretty weird details and combinations. Yay! This info in itself helps a ton, and makes sense of the contradictory snips of info I'd found. (Also, it's nice to have my wild guess born out.) It's probably the unusual effect caused by that combination that attracted my attention in the first place. Now, what I really wish I knew for sure is whether the side lacing is out of place on this general sort of garment, or a genuine detail! > (E., I have these books if you want to read the discussion and to see > other examples from the same ms and the related Tacuinum mss.) Replied to off-list. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 00:07:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U47pcu004764 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 00:07:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U46RLV018667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:06:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U46OdJ084120; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:06:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U46MpP084083 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:06:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.239]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U45le0011982 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 00:05:48 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050429210511.0272dc80@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:05:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rib removal In-Reply-To: References: <005d01c54d22$f0ed7d90$0301010a@michaela> <4.3.1.2.20050429161715.03a74e18@mail.frys.com> <005d01c54d22$f0ed7d90$0301010a@michaela> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This may be in the archives. From the Ziegfield Follies, it was the > wife of one of the owners who was also a Follies Girl. I think the last > name was Feld. That was apparently the known case of a woman having ribs > removed. Might that name have been Anna Held? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 01:04:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U54Yva004983 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:04:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U53gLV024090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:03:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U53Xar020722; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:03:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out-mail11.yourhostingaccount.com (outmail.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.254.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U53URD020667 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:03:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from SRS0=pIoXVq=TH=sewingcity.com=becky@yourhostingaccount.com) Message-Id: <200504300503.j3U53URD020667@net.indra.com> Received: from scan09.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.239] helo=scan09.yourhostingaccount.com) by mail11.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DRk8Y-0004Y6-Ce for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:03:30 -0400 Received: from authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.156] ident=exim) by scan09.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1DRk8Y-00054N-9W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:03:30 -0400 Received: from authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.156] helo=authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan09.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DRk8Y-00054K-3O for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:03:30 -0400 Received: from pool-71-111-177-89.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.111.177.89] helo=random) by authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1DRk8X-0003S1-6v for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:03:29 -0400 From: "Becky @ SewingCity.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:03:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcVNOnZp0ooJjYr9TJCB+Jf8jKjJFwABwXyQ In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050429210511.0272dc80@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-EN-UserInfo: 231a4af1c6595951fa0035d7a7dfc491:44225c88802e2dc5c324d40447d7bea9 X-EN-AuthUser: becky@sewingcity.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Use of fur on sideless gowns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I am looking for information about the use of fur on a sideless surcoat. The fur is white rabbit, not for royalty (no ermine) just noble. I have been wanting to use this fur for a while, and I have enough of it to cover the top part of a sideless, but wasn't sure how appropriate it would be for a noble woman. The sideless gown is linen. I remember seeing some pictures of the edges lined, and one where the entire top/bodice was covered. Thanks for any advice, Becky ------------- http://www.sewingcity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 03:15:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U7Fnr3020248 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 03:15:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U7F0LV002247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U7EfIv004872; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:14:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.179]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3U7Ecc9004683 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:14:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 91022 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2005 07:14:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20050430071432.91020.qmail@web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.137.151] by web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:14:32 BST Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:14:32 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: grease on clothes To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My wife has a whole set of specialised stain removers marketed under the name "Stain Devils" in the UK. Each one is specially formulated for removing a particular type of stain from cloth, carpets, soft furnishings, etc. The "packaging" is in a plastic tube about 1in. dia and about 4.5in high. & contains 50ml of the liquid formula. They are manufactured by DDDLtd, Watford, kent, UK. There are removing formulas for rust, ball-point-pen, perm. markers, grease, oil & tar, coffe, wine, - the list is very long. My wife swears by them, and has been using them successfully for years AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/29/2005 10:11:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, edieann@telus.net writes: How do you get grease (the black grease that you grease truck axles with) out of a white cotton shirt? One product I have had good luck with is called Tar and Bug Remover. Used to be able to get it at auto supply stores, although I haven't bought any in a long time. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 05:22:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3U9MOFS018243 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 05:22:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3U9LdLV022933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 03:21:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U9LUko081257; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 03:21:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.147]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3U9LRWv081175 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 03:21:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050430092122.XLTA23939.mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:21:22 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.153.224.20]) by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050430092121.WNSJ16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:21:21 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.11.0]); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:21:26 +1200 Message-ID: <001901c54d65$fc15cd10$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001c01c54d2a$b2335180$4a59ad8e@bc.hsia.telus.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: grease on clothes Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:21:25 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <> Depending on how it actually works on fabric of course.. but my brother works on boats and they use denatured alcohol to clean the sttuff off them. Haven't tried it myself (having not yet asked to test the product at home... ehem) but I do recall reading that (rubbing) alcohol can be used for grease stains. Actually I've been pondering what to do to get grease off my white cat! He's rather fond of going under cars having a good sniff and has come home this morning covered in the stuff. I have a photo, I do mean covered. I tried cleaning him gently with warm water and soap, but it just didtressed him no end. I got half of it off, enough to stop him self cleaning and ingesting more of it. Like the joke email says, cat spit is not a miracle cleaner.... So to open this further and be costume related still: how would one get grease out of fur? In my case it's on a living animal, but there may be cases of grease getting on a pelt... Oh and oil stains from a metal brocade is one I'm trying to work on as well. michaela http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 29/04/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 09:55:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UDtKPm008873 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:55:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UDsZLV007881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:54:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UDsI49050165; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:54:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.181]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3UDsFbV050081 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:54:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 909 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2005 13:54:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20050430135409.907.qmail@web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.144.211] by web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:54:09 BST Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:54:09 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] removing grease on clothes To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I can see grease spots and oils staining our medieval clothes from at least two 0f our activities - the first is from cooking food and eating eating it; and the second is the maintainance of weapons and armour. Firstly, it seems to me that the food stains would involve removal of the animal fats and natural plant oils that are present. For example, eating without forks could result in accidentally dipping one's long sleeves onto or into a platter or vessel while reaching for something else on the table. Or sauces dripping from foods as we convey them to our mouths. And the second involving whatever is used to clean-off light rusting from weapons and armour, especially after they've been fingered by the mundane Public who all seem to have this unstoppable urge to really "touch" one's equipment - [small boys and swords being at the head of my "oh, no, not again" list], - and then to protect/preserve the metal. These "staining agents" could be a natural plant oil [we coat our often-used weapons with refined Olive Oil after cleaning] - but could also be a petroleum derivative product - or even a micro-crystalline wax as used by Museums for the long-term protection of steel exhibits. So "posting" any specific remedies used successfully to remove those 2 classes of staining-agents will be particularly helpful. I would have thought that removing the kind of auto-lubricating grease mentioned by a previous Lister, - would require lots of highly-distilled denatured alcohol, or a very-refined White Spirit or lots of Carbon Tetrachloride; - basically because - as I see that problem, - the only remedy is to keep-on "flushing" the grease stain,- and blotting-up the emulsified/disolved grease must continue until the cleansing agent is coming-away clean. Maybe a Lister who has had experience in the "Dry Cleaning" Trade could add some comment? Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 10:14:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UEEs4A008970 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 10:14:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UEE5LV009191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UEE2ae063223; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:a8HP+CAAafV9yg3RMOTTEPLKN2ZnIcjZ@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UEDtJA063143 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:14:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.52] (pool180-52.patriot.net [209.249.180.52]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j3UEDppT017036 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 10:13:54 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050429210511.0272dc80@mail.frys.com> References: <005d01c54d22$f0ed7d90$0301010a@michaela> <4.3.1.2.20050429161715.03a74e18@mail.frys.com> <005d01c54d22$f0ed7d90$0301010a@michaela> <4.3.1.2.20050429210511.0272dc80@mail.frys.com> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 10:13:31 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rib removal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> This may be in the archives. From the Ziegfield Follies, it >>was the wife of one of the owners who was also a Follies Girl. I >>think the last name was Feld. That was apparently the known case >>of a woman having ribs removed. > >Might that name have been Anna Held? I don't remember the name - is there any more info on Anna Held about rib removal? I suppose if one woman did this, it would be enough to fuel the rumor that others did. For a modern comparison, I wonder in 100 years if people will cite Michael Jackson's plastic surgery as if something to that extent was commonplace! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 10:40:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UEedaL009135 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 10:40:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UEdvLV011016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:39:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UEdq00081642; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:39:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UEdmE0081541 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:39:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050430143942.LWWY22141.avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 02:39:42 +1200 Received: from michaela ([222.152.244.6]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050430143941.YLP4494.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 02:39:41 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.11.0]); Sun, 01 May 2005 02:39:45 +1200 Message-ID: <001301c54d92$73b71730$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005d01c54d22$f0ed7d90$0301010a@michaela><4.3.1.2.20050429161715.03a74e18@mail.frys.com><005d01c54d22$f0ed7d90$0301010a@michaela><4.3.1.2.20050429210511.0272dc80@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rib removal Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 02:39:24 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Might that name have been Anna Held? > > I don't remember the name - is there any more info on Anna Held > about rib removal? It was also rumoured she bathed in milk, that was probably put out by her husband. The only text I could find was on a dodgy page with a mysterious "I know people who do this" and an email address to get the names of the surgeons. Anyway they were quoting the staylace site. Valerie Steele has done the research on studying skeletons and records and has found no evidence to back up any of the claims. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/vanities/ribs.htm There is more out there (search for valerie steele rib removal) but I'm having issues with a spyware program taking up more memory than it needs to run and is making everything run slooooow. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 29/04/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 11:01:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UF10Go009286 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:01:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UF0BLV012431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:00:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UF05wo096199; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:00:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UF01ov096132 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:00:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.41] (206-124-5-41.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.41]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j3UEvHK08328 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:57:17 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: References: <005d01c54d22$f0ed7d90$0301010a@michaela> <4.3.1.2.20050429161715.03a74e18@mail.frys.com> <005d01c54d22$f0ed7d90$0301010a@michaela> <4.3.1.2.20050429210511.0272dc80@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <98a2cb3f4fe1181534a95a0135602a74@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rib removal Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:59:59 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm afraid in 100 years it WILL be commonplace, at the rate cosmetic surgery is progressing and gaining in popularity! On Apr 30, 2005, at 8:13 AM, Carol Kocian wrote: > I suppose if one woman did this, it would be enough to fuel the > rumor that others did. For a modern comparison, I wonder in 100 years > if people will cite Michael Jackson's plastic surgery as if something > to that extent was commonplace! > > -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 11:10:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UFAKEO009629 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:10:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UF9hLV013055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:09:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UF9ebt003038; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:09:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.254]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UF9cQD003012 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:09:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DRtb8-0007j8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:09:38 -0700 Message-ID: <42739FB7.3010404@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:09:43 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen and silk References: <001a01c54cb2$26563240$795183d1@rmitchellras> <4.2.2.20050429081042.00dae1b0@pop.surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20050429081042.00dae1b0@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am not sure where you are, but in the united states, there is a product called Zout made by Dial which works great on all kinds of stains! You might have to order it online. I've not seen it in the stores for some reason, but I have not looked in awhile. Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 11:32:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UFW9qH010130 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:32:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UFVTLV015853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:31:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UFVONj018831; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:31:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UFVMXF018801 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:31:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m91.in-tch.com [216.166.191.91]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j3UFQt423751 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:26:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4273A617.1050204@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:36:55 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: grease on clothes References: <001c01c54d2a$b2335180$4a59ad8e@bc.hsia.telus.net> <001901c54d65$fc15cd10$0301010a@michaela> In-Reply-To: <001901c54d65$fc15cd10$0301010a@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If I had to get grease, or a greasy substance, out of something that could be dry-cleaned, I'd take it to a cleaners'. They have solvents there that will specifically take out things like that. For more delicate things, like fur garments, I really don't know. Perhaps, if you were careful, you could gently sponge at the stained areas with a mild solution of water and a dish soap specifically formulated to be grease-cutting? The trick would be to clean the fur, I'd imagine, but not get the skin part wet. In the U.S., where I live, we have something called "Dawn," (dish soap? dish detergent?) which my Dad used to swear by--not only does it have grease-cutters, but it contains surfactants, which, I think, help break up the grease or oil molecules. (geez, but I hope I got that right! ) And while he used it to mix in with his tree paint solutions to help disperse the color more evenly, I've known a *bunch* of people on fiber lists talk about using Dawn and similar detergents to clean raw wools, some of which can be *very* greasy. Come to think of it, you could probably also use something like Orvus, or some of the commercially-available wool washes, which should be purchasable in your neck of the woods, given that some of them, I think, are imported into the US from NZ! ;o) As far as that cat goes--I'd ask your vet for recommendations. I'd probably use something like Dawn or Orvus, both of which I happen to have and have used on cats for just that purpose in the past (what *IS* it with cats and the undersides of cars???). The unhappy cat would just have to put up with being wet and in the sink for a bit (tough patooties, and all!) You'd just have to make sure that the kitty was thoroughly rinsed afterwards, so that he didn't ingest any of the soap/detergent. --sue, about to go out and enjoy a sunny, spring day! Hurrah! It's up above freezing this morning! (okay...so we *did* have snow on the tulips earlier this week! ) p.s. I've also heard of using other, absorbent things to soak up grease and oils. Perhaps cornstarch? Or fine bread crumbs? or one of those dry shampoos intended for human use? I think the effectiveness would depend greatly on how bad the stain was..... michaela wrote: > < post this question for me? > > How do you get grease (the black grease that you grease truck axles with) > out of a white cotton shirt?>> > > Depending on how it actually works on fabric of course.. but my brother > works on boats and they use denatured alcohol to clean the sttuff off them. > Haven't tried it myself (having not yet asked to test the product at home... > ehem) but I do recall reading that (rubbing) alcohol can be used for grease > stains. > > Actually I've been pondering what to do to get grease off my white cat! He's > rather fond of going under cars having a good sniff and has come home this > morning covered in the stuff. I have a photo, I do mean covered. > > I tried cleaning him gently with warm water and soap, but it just didtressed > him no end. I got half of it off, enough to stop him self cleaning and > ingesting more of it. Like the joke email says, cat spit is not a miracle > cleaner.... > > So to open this further and be costume related still: how would one get > grease out of fur? In my case it's on a living animal, but there may be > cases of grease getting on a pelt... > > Oh and oil stains from a metal brocade is one I'm trying to work on as well. > > michaela > http://glittersweet.com > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 12:22:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UGMeBG010499 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 12:22:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UGM0LV021107 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 10:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UGLsVw053576; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 10:21:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (outbound01.telus.net [199.185.220.220]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UGLpZg053482 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 10:21:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([142.173.89.74]) by priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with SMTP id <20050430162146.KDOW27328.priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 10:21:46 -0600 Message-ID: <001501c54da1$9c17b540$4a59ad8e@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050430071432.91020.qmail@web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: grease on clothes Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:28:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You lucky people I have to hunt for stain removers and have tried some nasty solutions. Maybe the manufacturer sells somewhere in Canada. I still couldn't get a tomato stain or felt pen out of an area rug. Some of the felt came out with alcohol but not all of it. The tomato stain didn't leave no-matter what I did. I know my mother took out ink stains by rubbing lard into the stain. Rust most of the time is easily removed by using baking soda it causes a cemical reaction. The kids brought a chair all the time into the bathroom while taking a bath and it would leave long rust stains on my lino. It also works on steel doors, kitchen sinks and rust stains from armour. Brin ----- Original Message ----- From: "julian wilson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: grease on clothes My wife has a whole set of specialised stain removers marketed under the name "Stain Devils" in the UK. Each one is specially formulated for removing a particular type of stain from cloth, carpets, soft furnishings, etc. The "packaging" is in a plastic tube about 1in. dia and about 4.5in high. & contains 50ml of the liquid formula. They are manufactured by DDDLtd, Watford, kent, UK. There are removing formulas for rust, ball-point-pen, perm. markers, grease, oil & tar, coffe, wine, - the list is very long. My wife swears by them, and has been using them successfully for years AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/29/2005 10:11:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, edieann@telus.net writes: How do you get grease (the black grease that you grease truck axles with) out of a white cotton shirt? One product I have had good luck with is called Tar and Bug Remover. Used to be able to get it at auto supply stores, although I haven't bought any in a long time. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 13:19:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UHJWpF011061 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:19:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UHItLV029997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:18:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UHIoGv095169; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:18:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UHIldg095139 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:18:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26637 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:34:31 -0500 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:34:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Use of fur on sideless gowns In-Reply-To: <200504300503.j3U53URD020667@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 29 Apr 2005, Becky @ SewingCity.com wrote: > I am looking for information about the use of fur on a sideless > surcoat. The fur is white rabbit, not for royalty (no ermine) just > noble. I have been wanting to use this fur for a while, and I have > enough of it to cover the top part of a sideless, but wasn't sure how > appropriate it would be for a noble woman. The sideless gown is > linen. I remember seeing some pictures of the edges lined, and one > where the entire top/bodice was covered. Many books will tell you that noblewomen wore this garment over the full length of its existence. As it happens, I've done an extended study on this (some of you have heard me lecture on it); I wrote about it here: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/index.cgi?l=hcos03&s=sideless&Cmd=Match+1 http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/index.cgi?l=hcos03&s=sideless&Cmd=Match+3 The short answer is that over time, the garment moved from having minimal visible fur to larger and larger quantities of fur (first edgings, then covering the entire top part with a fur piece often called a plastron). At the same time, it moved from being a garment worn by nobility and (probably) gentry and became more exclusive to the highest classes and royalty, so that by the time you see the fur plastrons, you're looking at duchesses and queens. The style also ended up gaining certain artistic symbolism and was used by artists long after it seems to have fallen out of fashionable wear, so later you go, the less reliable the art is for anything that might have been worn by real people. The shorter answer: The style of surcote that has lots of fur on it would most likely have been exclusive to royalty and their family members, and these women would have worn ermine. If you want to use your fur on a sideless surcote, stick with an earlier version (perhaps a little fur edging the armhole edges, which is itself a natural development from the fur lining that would have been normal for these and other overgowns). Or make a different style for which it's easy to document fur for a noblewoman, such as a fitted overdress with fur tippets or long sleeve extensions that show off a white fur lining. The shortest answer: If you're in the SCA, most people won't know the above unless they read this list or have heard me lecture ;-) so make what you like. There's no shortage of images of females in sideless surcotes, and most people (including many authors of older costume books) happily cite them as examples without regard to who is being pictured or in what context. You can find some pictures here: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/1581/surcoats.htm Bear in mind that the Spanish and Italian examples are a different line of evolution of sideless garments and not directly related to the Western European sideless surcote in cut or style. Also, don't rely closely on the text on this site, which includes some errors. It's a good selection of pictures, though, as long as you're aware that many of the images (particularly funerary sculpture and religious art) are symbolic or allegorical in nature. (Points to the site author for linking directly to other sites' pictures instead of just lifting them.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 18:02:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UM28bn014028 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:02:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UM16LV026465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:01:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UM0sX1064056; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:00:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.176]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3UM0rIb063989 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:00:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 46074 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2005 22:00:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.137.160] by web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:00:47 BST Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:00:47 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Trim - prefabricated braid frogging - help? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suugestions for suppliers of "prefabricated braid frogging closures" would be very welcome. I've tried an internet search but I'm obviously not asking the correct questsions - [maybe there's a Nut loose on my keyboard]. By "prefabricated" - I mean pre-made by the manufacturers into design patterns, and stitched to a card to help them keep their shape while on-show before Sale; prior to being stitched to the garment by the end-user. If Listers could help with suggested sources from the US or the UK, I would be most grateful. These are required for garment closures as on some Oriental tunics and jackets, and as alternative greatcoat closures on the Union Marine Uniform of the US Civil War Era - and after; - not for sleeve decorations [e.g the so-called Austrian Knot" variations used on the Light Cavalry sleeves of many Nations during the same periuod]. Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 18:21:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UMLmmI014236 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:21:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UMLDLV028713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:21:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UMLDo8076395; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:21:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53304.mail.yahoo.com (web53304.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.233]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3UIKPsl033671 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 12:20:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jauncourt@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 66102 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2005 18:20:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=kjd5oEsH23ecgq8TvowZPKyCglMChMq8NpO7d03VZ9oIsb5gPCq5mn3suSN+gg9jgl5dc7pM9YB28TqwgwqGsfqkc7J6JW2v3dD+wZBXbvLq40TV8lfbr4U1krXCoBXWakd9U5Q08pSaVrdJ9+U5ebeSmcqgXDcSNeDxO8w/kyU= ; Message-ID: <20050430182020.66100.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.245.75.82] by web53304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:20:20 PDT Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:20:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Branwyn Maura To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200504300406.j3U46PWi084124@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A 19th century cap X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am making a copy of a 19th century ruffled white cap that's in my mom's collection. She asked me to do a Janet Arnold (i.e. sketch, photograph, and pattern it out without damaging it). It's a nifty piece, still in excellent shape. Also, it fits me, which means that to reproduce it, I don't need to grade it up :) Its date seems to be about 1840, if compared to similar caps in _Costume in Detail_. However, it is also substantially similar, in cut, to examples from the turn of the 18th-19th century and just after, in _Rural Pennsylvania Clothing_ (Cap 'A', p 66; cap 'B', p 68; cap 'E', p 69; and figs 75 & 76, p 70). As we are fairly sure this cap is American in origin (though we know nothing else about it - it was found in a bag of mixed antique laces given to my mother over 20 years ago), I think the American examples are probably closer to giving us an idea of its age. It is entirely (and amazingly) handsewn of a sort of windowpane check weave white linen (VERY fine), with an applied ruffle of VERYVERY fine plainweave white cotton. It ties with a pair of 1 cm wide twill tapes, possibly linen (but soft enough to possibly also be cotton :P ), and is adjusted at the back by two linen drawcords in a casing made the same size as all the other hems*. The band is 5cm wide and shaped into forward-projecting tapering points that terminate in the ties, and the crown is gathered starting and ending about 10cm up from the casings on either side, evenly stroked into what are essentially tiny cartidge pleats. Inside the crown you can see that the raw edge was folded twice and hemmed until the gathering points, where it was simply folded over once, about 4 mm, and neatly, tightly gathered. Apparently, the tension of the gathering has held the edge from fraying. Between the shaped band and the crown is a 3 cm wide band of linen with whitework flowers worked in cotton and edged on either side with simple pulled thread fagoting (about 5 threads wide). The whitework band is attached to the band and gathered crown with TINY, dense, regularly spaced whipstiches which both roll-finish the whitework band and attach it to the main body sections of the cap. On the side where the whitework band is attched to the gathered edge of the crown, these whip stitches also serve to hold the gathers evenly - there is no evidence of any other stitching used. The ruffle is neatly hemmed on one edge by folding over about 3mm and then again about 5mm and stitching down. Its gathered edge is rolled and whipped, and gathered by pulling up the thread and catching it to the body of the cap every few stitches. The gathering stops where the drawcord casings begin, at teh point where the band joins the whitework band. *The main pieces of the cap, made of the windowpane check linen, seem to have been finished completely before assembly, EXCEPT for the casing edge. The band is made in two pieces and joined at its center, then hemmed, and is probably cut from scraps, as the pattern does not match up. So, last night, I sat down and roughly patterned it out, with some notes. I am now checking my pattern by reproducing the cap from my notes. Since I don't have access to such fine patterned white linen or such fine white cotton, I'm making do. I have a slightly heavier scrap of white linen, which I've drawn my main pattern pieces out on in pencil and I am working in drawn-thread work into a similar pattern. I am also making the whitework strip from some of the same linen. For the ruffle, I'm using the finest cotton I have, to reproduce the difference between the body of the original and its ruffle, though, as my cotton is wider, my ruffle will be slightly fuller. I'm in awe of the skills and thrift of the original seamstress - she did so many things at once that she msut have saved herself hours of work. I'll keep you posted on how well my experiments in reproducing her work are going. Eventually, once we are sure this will work as a pattern and article, it will be on my website. Maura __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 19:09:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UN9vd3014678 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:09:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UMJjLV028508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:19:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UMJeV4075301; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:19:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tora.toysmakeuspowerful.com (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX19Kkf2v+IoTnZbkX5ID3VWpEbA+LRp6SnU@adsl-65-68-105-252.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net [65.68.105.252]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UMJRM1075137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:19:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saka@toysmakeuspowerful.com) Received: from tora.toysmakeuspowerful.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tora.toysmakeuspowerful.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3UMJVUY029290 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:19:31 -0500 Received: (from saka@localhost) by tora.toysmakeuspowerful.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j3UMJVk5029288 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:19:31 -0500 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:19:31 -0500 From: saka@toysmakeuspowerful.com To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20050430221931.GA29157@toysmakeuspowerful.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Grease remover X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try Gojo. It's a hand grease remover that mechanics use. It is available in two types, with pumice and without. I have used it to get oil out of yellow cotton towels before. It got MOST of it out, and left a nice orange scent! I'd use the non pumice version because the pumice might damage the fibers. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 19:16:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UNGkHR014731 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:16:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UNGFLV001681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:16:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UNGBo8005499; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:16:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UNG8oD005457 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:16:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp219.directcon.net [209.79.209.219]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id j3UNIRg24240 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:18:27 -0700 Message-ID: <002101c54dd9$686f6520$dbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <001c01c54d2a$b2335180$4a59ad8e@bc.hsia.telus.net> <001901c54d65$fc15cd10$0301010a@michaela> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:07:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New Elizabethan Pattern: The Working Woman's Wardrobe X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, everyone! I'm happy to announce the release of yet another historically accurate, highly detailed Elizabethan Pattern! The Elizabethan Working Woman's Wardrobe Pattern is our first pattern for the lower orders. It's based on styles seen in the painting "The Wedding at Bermondsey", (Also known as "The Fete at Bermondsey"). At last, a realistic historical pattern for lower class women who don't want to dress like ill fitted floozies. The pattern has our usual high standards. It's well researched, and comes with a 120 page instruction manual. It includes tissue patterns for a smock, partlet, bodice with lacing and shoulder and waistline variations, a skirt, two sleeves, three hats, a pouch, and instructions for making an apron and neckcloth. The size range is women's 2-30, and all the sizes are included in each package. IMPORTANT: THIS IS NOT FINE PRINT! MOST OF THE PIECES IN THE WORKING WOMAN'S WARDROBE ARE ADAPTED FROM SELECTED PIECES IN THE ELIZABETHAN LADY'S ENSEMBLE. IF YOU ALREADY HAVE THE ENSEMBLE -- THE UNDERPINNINGS, WARDROBE, AND ACCESSORIES -- YOU DO NOT NEED THIS NEW PACKAGE. I'm putting the finishing touches on a set of instructions to adapt the Lady's Ensemble patterns to create the same costumes as the Working Woman's Wardrobe. These instructions will be added to the website in a downloadable form within a few days. The Working Woman's Wardrobe has been created for those who have not chosen to recreate the dress of the upper classes, but want to enjoy the same quality of patterns and documentation as our existing customers. To see it and order, go to www.margospatterns.com Thanks! Margo Anderson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 19:42:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UNgDR2014963 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:42:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UNUtWx002768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UMUSXm081709; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:30:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.254]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UMTqCS081288 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:29:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DS0T9-0003xP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 15:29:51 -0700 Message-ID: <427406E5.7010003@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 15:29:57 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim - prefabricated braid frogging - help? References: <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you mean these things? http://www.jkmribbon.com/wrights/frogs.html Click on each type to see it. Sg If these don't suit you. Try googling on "frogs sewing" (no quotes) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 19:42:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UNgFgS014966 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:42:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UNUtWr002768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UMs9aA093433; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:54:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UMs6hb093402 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:54:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UMs9YJ000478 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:54:09 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.94.108] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-94-108.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.94.108]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UMs0lp133438 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:54:05 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050430155255.0265edb0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 15:53:25 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] A 19th century cap In-Reply-To: <20050430182020.66100.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200504300406.j3U46PWi084124@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Eventually, once we are sure this will work as a >pattern and article, it will be on my website. I'm drooling already. Yes, please let us know where this will be. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 19:42:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UNgBuL014960 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:42:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UNUtWp002768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:41:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UMYvRf083965; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:34:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UMSe8t080607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:28:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UNjsos006751 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:45:54 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A 19th century cap Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:28:34 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050430182020.66100.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050430182020.66100.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200504301828.34238.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 30 April 2005 2:20 pm, Branwyn Maura wrote: [snip] > I'm in awe of the skills and thrift of the original > seamstress - she did so many things at once that she > msut have saved herself hours of work. I'll keep you > posted on how well my experiments in reproducing her > work are going. > > Eventually, once we are sure this will work as a > pattern and article, it will be on my website. That sounds wonderful. Thank you, and good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 19:42:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UNgNWm014969 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:42:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UNUtX1002768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:41:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UMRnSH080268; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:27:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UMRl39080250 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:27:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.21.155] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DS0R8-0006cg-9O; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:27:47 -0400 Message-ID: <02c001c54dd3$d31fc500$ea159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" , References: <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim - prefabricated braid frogging - help? Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:27:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b92e412cb18891411f11b53674dab6f29350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.21.155 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julian wrote: > Suugestions for suppliers of "prefabricated braid frogging closures" would > be very welcome. Cheeptrims.com does international orders, and is very reasonable, probably even with the duty you'll have to pay in Jersey. They stock lots of trim, buttons and other notions as well. Here are the appropriate pages for many styles of frogs: http://www.cheeptrims.com/store/subcategory.asp?CategoryID=29&SubCategoryID=124 http://www.cheeptrims.com/store/subcategory.asp?CategoryID=29&SubCategoryID=122 http://www.cheeptrims.com/store/subcategory.asp?CategoryID=29&SubCategoryID=127 Good luck with your project, -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 19:42:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3UNgSf0014972 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3UNUtWv002768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3UMWJw3082724; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:32:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j3UMMj3A077183 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:22:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2005 22:22:39 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050430231747.014d4180@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:21:20 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim - prefabricated braid frogging - help? In-Reply-To: <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <6667> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 23:00 30/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: >Suugestions for suppliers of "prefabricated braid frogging closures" would >be very welcome. >I've tried an internet search but I'm obviously not asking the correct >questsions - [maybe there's a Nut loose on my keyboard]. >By "prefabricated" - I mean pre-made by the manufacturers into design >patterns, and stitched to a card to help them keep their shape while >on-show before Sale; prior to being stitched to the garment by the end-user. >If Listers could help with suggested sources from the US or the UK, I >would be most grateful. >These are required for garment closures as on some Oriental tunics and >jackets, and as alternative greatcoat closures on the Union Marine Uniform >of the US Civil War Era - and after; - not for sleeve decorations [e.g >the so-called Austrian Knot" variations used on the Light Cavalry sleeves >of many Nations during the same periuod]. Kleins - haberdashery and craft supplies Barnett Lawson - huge range of braids, ribbons, buttons, feathers and trimmings Little Trimmings - small scale trimmings and lace, and a very helpful lady All the above have links on my web pages together with other suppliers of fabrics etc. Kleins and Barnett Lawson would be my first choices - Little Trimmings is probably more suitable for toys and dolls. Suzi www.suziclarke.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 22:31:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j412Va6j016052 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:31:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j412PvWj018125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:25:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j412PmTM002123; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:25:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j412PkPH002086 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:25:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005050102254101400fjtbte>; Sun, 1 May 2005 02:25:41 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c54df5$156cdf30$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:25:46 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: Funny Cats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j412Va6j016052 Status: RO This is off topic but I know a lot of you have cats... so you will love this! http://www.themooseisloose.net/funny_cats.html (have you volume on when watching) Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 22:45:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j412jOoU016170 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:45:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j412isWj019839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:44:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j412ioB7011700; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:44:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j412ilCo011657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:44:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:35199 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DS4Rs-0002oJ-Rc for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:44:49 -0400 Received: from 198.93.212.176 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1679.198.93.212.176.1114915491.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] A 19th century cap From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.212.176 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <20050430182020.66100.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200504300406.j3U46PWi084124@net.indra.com> <20050430182020.66100.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am making a copy of a 19th century ruffled white cap > that's in my mom's collection. She asked me to do a > Janet Arnold (i.e. sketch, photograph, and pattern it > out without damaging it). It's a nifty piece, still in > excellent shape. Also, it fits me, which means that to > reproduce it, I don't need to grade it up :) > > > Eventually, once we are sure this will work as a > pattern and article, it will be on my website. > > Maura > And where would we find that? LOL thanks, Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 23:13:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j413DmEd016448 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:13:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j413D5Wj022317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j413Cxun026262; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:12:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out-mail10.yourhostingaccount.com (outmail.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.254.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j413CtvM026222 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:12:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from SRS0=sj10u7=TI=sewingcity.com=becky@yourhostingaccount.com) Message-Id: <200505010312.j413CtvM026222@net.indra.com> Received: from scan10.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.240] helo=scan10.yourhostingaccount.com) by mail10.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DS4t4-0004JL-LW for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:12:54 -0400 Received: from authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.156] ident=exim) by scan10.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1DS4t4-00052U-Fr for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:12:54 -0400 Received: from authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.156] helo=authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan10.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DS4t4-00052R-AH for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:12:54 -0400 Received: from pool-71-111-177-89.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.111.177.89] helo=random) by authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1DS4t3-0002ZK-H1 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:12:54 -0400 From: "Becky @ SewingCity.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Use of fur on sideless gowns Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:12:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Thread-Index: AcVNqUhv8CEntbwmQfKIi4nsy57XHwAUi70A X-EN-UserInfo: 231a4af1c6595951fa0035d7a7dfc491:44225c88802e2dc5c324d40447d7bea9 X-EN-AuthUser: becky@sewingcity.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin, I always love reading your posts - and I love your longer, shorter, shortest answers :) Thanks for taking the time to reply, and I appreciate the research. I will have fun making this gown... Becky ------------------- http://www.sewingcity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 30 23:27:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j413RKEW016605 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:27:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j413QaWj023122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:26:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j413QU3a032614; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:26:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j413QSwl032568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:26:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:35913 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DS566-0000Jl-VR for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:26:24 -0400 Received: from 198.93.212.176 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1714.198.93.212.176.1114917988.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Elizabethan Pattern: The Working Woman's Wardrobe From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.212.176 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <002101c54dd9$686f6520$dbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> References: <001c01c54d2a$b2335180$4a59ad8e@bc.hsia.telus.net> <001901c54d65$fc15cd10$0301010a@michaela> <002101c54dd9$686f6520$dbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO sounds wonderful. is there anything similar out there for the civil war era? or would that have been to diverse? Kitty > Hi, everyone! > > I'm happy to announce the release of yet another historically accurate, > highly detailed > Elizabethan Pattern! > > The Elizabethan Working Woman's Wardrobe Pattern is our first pattern > for the lower orders. It's based on styles seen in the painting "The > Wedding at Bermondsey", (Also known as "The Fete at Bermondsey"). At > last, a realistic historical pattern for lower class women who don't > want to dress like ill fitted floozies. > > The pattern has our usual high standards. It's well researched, and > comes with a 120 page instruction manual. It includes tissue patterns > for a smock, partlet, bodice with lacing and shoulder and waistline > variations, a skirt, two sleeves, three hats, a pouch, and instructions > for making an apron and neckcloth. The size range is women's 2-30, and > all the sizes are included in each package. > > IMPORTANT: THIS IS NOT FINE PRINT! MOST OF THE PIECES IN THE WORKING > WOMAN'S WARDROBE ARE ADAPTED FROM SELECTED PIECES IN THE ELIZABETHAN > LADY'S ENSEMBLE. IF YOU ALREADY HAVE THE ENSEMBLE -- THE UNDERPINNINGS, > WARDROBE, AND ACCESSORIES -- YOU DO NOT NEED THIS NEW PACKAGE. > > I'm putting the finishing touches on a set of instructions to adapt the > Lady's Ensemble patterns to create the same costumes as the Working > Woman's Wardrobe. These instructions will be added to the website in a > downloadable form within a few days. The Working Woman's Wardrobe has > been created for those who have not chosen to recreate the dress of the > upper classes, but want to enjoy the same quality of patterns and > documentation as our existing customers. > > To see it and order, go to www.margospatterns.com > > Thanks! > > Margo Anderson > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 1 00:03:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4142x5X016984 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 00:02:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4142NWj025603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:02:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4142JZt050160; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:02:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f3.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.53]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4142HGL050087 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:02:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:02:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.96.8 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 01 May 2005 04:02:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.8] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200504301801.j3UI0mk9021548@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:02:11 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2005 04:02:12.0030 (UTC) FILETIME=[8D784DE0:01C54E02] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: grease on fur X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "michaela" >...Actually I've been pondering what to do to get grease off my white cat! >He's >rather fond of going under cars having a good sniff and has come home this >morning covered in the stuff. I have a photo, I do mean covered... >So to open this further and be costume related still: how would one get >grease out of fur? In my case it's on a living animal, but there may be >cases of grease getting on a pelt... I can't with the cloth, but -may- help with the cat. To remove the grease you may need to add more grease :) There is (in the US) a product called "goop" that is used to remove grease from mechanics - and should not be confused with the adhesive called "goop". I use it to get code off my hands when making shoes. The company has a product called "Groomers Goop" and is specifically for degreasing cats and dogs. The major ingredient of Goop is, I believe, Lanolin. After you get the grease off the cat, then you can wash it down with soap and water to remove the lanolin. BTW, there is also "Mom's Goop" which is supposed to take up stains on fabric. The company is at http://www.goophandcleaner.com Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume