From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 02:02:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2172LMK031051 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:02:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2172Ls2031052; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:02:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2170c5G024806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:00:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2170XEL029390; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:00:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2170TUI029354 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:00:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1CB2233902 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 01:00:29 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 01:00:42 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 02:02:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440546FD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Nice site. http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html If you go to the purple dress, the all white and cream garment is the kirtle. She seems to have used the kirtle bodice as a corset and boned it. This is interesting, I wonder if this is learning from extent garments or theory. I am curious about the petticoat, taffeta bodice and wool skirt. As I am not an expert, these layers are new to me. Becky, Note the sleeves of the smock and then compare it to the picture with the cream false sleeves. The poufs in the false sleeves are not from the smock sleeves. The purple laced picture is showing the bodice of the purple gown. A placard which is a piece of material that is sewn in the shape of the front of the bodice covers the lacing and is pinned with straight pins along the sides. The points of the pins are embedded between the layers. So what she has is: smock bodice and wool skirt petticoat farthingale kirtle/corset gown. Is this correct? I have alway thought it was: smock (maybe underwear) kirtle gown What I find frustrating with the site is that only the children's costumes show the layers but not the adults. Beautiful work though. De -----Original Message----- It came from someone on the h-costume boards. I will see if I still have the reference. I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like. I have the Margo Anderson patterns, the Arnold books and ordered one by Jean M(? I can't remember the last name right now) It's about costuming. The site where I have seen the pictures of the layers used for this portrait is "Ninya Mikhaila" ninya@ninyamikhaila.com http://www.ninyamikhaila.com Her website has 2 versions of a gown from the portrait. One shows the layers and the other shows how she did the front opening. She also wrote to me when I asked questions. She has been very helpful and easily available when I needed her advice. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 04:12:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k219C3lm027104 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:12:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k219C4uZ002828; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:12:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k219BJfr051579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:11:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k219BF0V039146; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:11:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k219B9AO039090 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:11:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6301F5178A for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 01:11:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 01:11:08 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 04:12:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44056564.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 01:59 PM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like. Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this image below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached sleeve? http://www.morganlibrary.org/collections/collections.asp?id=60 zoom in close to the far left of the image. It is a woman working whacking something. She's wearing green dress with short upper sleeves, and a pinkish colored lower sleeve. She's holding a cudgel? or something in her hands. Granted, it is a working woman who is from Belgium, not England. She's also not a noble woman, but could this be an example of something similar to what we can't see under Tudor gowns? Kimiko She who may be grasping at straws in the early morning hours. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 04:55:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k219tE6v031498 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:55:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k219tErj015103; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:55:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k219sqPE064868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:54:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k219soL3069902; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:54:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k219sjHE069833 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:54:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 91844 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 09:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.226 with login) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 09:54:44 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:54:40 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 04:55:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44056F82.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 09:11 01/03/2006, you wrote: >At 01:59 PM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >>I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like. > > >Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this >image below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached sleeve? > >http://www.morganlibrary.org/collections/collections.asp?id=60 >zoom in close to the far left of the image. It is a woman working >whacking something. She's wearing green dress with short upper >sleeves, and a pinkish colored lower sleeve. She's holding a cudgel? >or something in her hands. > >Granted, it is a working woman who is from Belgium, not England. >She's also not a noble woman, but could this be an example of >something similar to what we can't see under Tudor gowns? > >Kimiko >She who may be grasping at straws in the early morning hours. http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/m/michele/index.html (A Hungarian working in Ferrara mid 15th century) And there are several short sleeved garments in paintings by Rogier van der Weyden, c. 1450, one of which clearly shows the pin holding the sleeve on, although this may actually be from the shoulder strap. http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg (The Altarpiece of the Seven Sacraments, http://www.shop-com.co.uk/amos/cc/main/prod/act/21946059/ccsyn/261 You will have to enlarge this - she is the figure on the bottom right of the centre panel. The Descent from the Cross (huge, in the Prado in Madrid. She is wearing what looks like a gown made from oblongs of wool - quite fascinating- I spent ages in front of it and still haven't worked it out!). (Also called the Deposition from the Cross) http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/decent.jpg I realise these are not 16th century, but short sleeves kirtles were obviously worn earlier, so is it possibly that the fashion could have continued in the later period? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 06:10:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21BAQDs017810 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:10:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21BARlQ013171; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:10:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21B9mIO072725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:09:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21B9jPv026397; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:09:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21B9eE2026233 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:09:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.143]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060301110934.OULE6239.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:09:34 +1300 Received: from michaela ([219.89.183.2]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060301110934.AYN1416.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:09:34 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.1.1/271]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:09:34 +1300 Message-ID: <001f01c63d20$9ee651e0$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:09:28 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 06:10:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44058123.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > I realise these are not 16th century, but short sleeves kirtles were > obviously worn earlier, so is it possibly that the fashion could have > continued in the later period? In Germany you have half sleeve gowns of all sorts in the 16thC. I just recently made a very light summer version: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/k/3cleves.htm I have some thumbnails that link to the full images which show the dress style in context. Earlier in the century of course there are the spit sleeves where the lower piece can be removed, these gowns may have evolved from there. Or not;) They are worn with fitted sleeves underneath usually but the Dutch dresses wear the sleeves pinned to the outside. I realise there are short sleeved robes and surcoats worn in England and at other times, so this short sleeved outerwear may not be completely helpful, but it does show short sleeves were worn. I also doubt that sleeve length was often mentioned in inventaries and wills? michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release Date: 28/02/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 06:35:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21BZAtk021135 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:35:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21BYf34022506; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:35:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21BYKxv075718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:34:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21BYHSV045886; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:34:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21BYEdD045766 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:34:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-1389.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.85.111]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1CE7BE65E for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:34:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:34:03 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Men's shoes 1800-1810 question References: <000801c639e5$c8eae890$0300a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <000801c639e5$c8eae890$0300a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060301113407.D1CE7BE65E@cardassian.kabelfoon.nl> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 06:35:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440586D1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thanks for all the response. I am getting an idee of what I can do. I don't want him to buy expensive shoes just for one event. Greetings, Deredere Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: >My husband is in "Once Upon A Mattress" and just bought "jazz" shoes-- flat, >black, with a small heel. Not perfectly period, but close, easy to find and >comfortable. > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On >Behalf Of AnnBWass@aol.com >Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:50 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Men's shoes 1800-1810 question > > > >In a message dated 2/23/2006 10:26:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > >Flat pumps, very like ladies' shoes of the same period. > > > >Ditto--definitely NOT boots--they were not proper for the "drawing room" >nor >for the ballroom. > >My husband wears a loafer type shoe, but with the seam stitched inside, >like >this. >_http://www.allenedmonds.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchDisplayDetailVi >ew >?storeId=1&langId=-1&contractId=100&catalogId=40000000001&parent_category_rn >=1 >83&categoryId=190&productId=6370000&imageType=1&occasion=190_ >(http://www.allenedmonds.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchDisplayDetailVi >ew?storeId=1&langI >d=-1&contractId=100&catalogId=40000000001&parent_category_rn=183&categoryId= >19 >0&productId=6370000&imageType=1&occasion=190) > Regular formal pumps don't seem to come wide enough to fit him. But if >you can find them, they would be best. > >Ann Wass >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 07:55:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21Ct2Pn007377 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:55:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21Ct267021977; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:55:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21CslDf093110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:54:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21CsjhX017156; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:54:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav5.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.77]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21CsfSP017107 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:54:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:54:41 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:54:37 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:54:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2006 12:54:41.0020 (UTC) FILETIME=[4E214BC0:01C63D2F] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 07:55:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440599A6.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Someone refered to this hat as the "Fram Filter Hat". It's the only one I've seen like that. Sleeves... is this an outer gown or a kirtle? I see the attached lacing for the lower sleeves. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:54 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} > At 09:11 01/03/2006, you wrote: >>At 01:59 PM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >>>I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like. >> >> >>Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this image >>below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached sleeve? >> >>http://www.morganlibrary.org/collections/collections.asp?id=60 >>zoom in close to the far left of the image. It is a woman working whacking >>something. She's wearing green dress with short upper sleeves, and a >>pinkish colored lower sleeve. She's holding a cudgel? or something in her >>hands. >> >>Granted, it is a working woman who is from Belgium, not England. She's >>also not a noble woman, but could this be an example of something similar >>to what we can't see under Tudor gowns? >> >>Kimiko >>She who may be grasping at straws in the early morning hours. > > > http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/m/michele/index.html > > (A Hungarian working in Ferrara mid 15th century) > > And there are several short sleeved garments in paintings by Rogier van > der Weyden, c. 1450, one of which clearly shows the pin holding the > sleeve on, although this may actually be from the shoulder strap. > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg > > (The Altarpiece of the Seven Sacraments, > http://www.shop-com.co.uk/amos/cc/main/prod/act/21946059/ccsyn/261 > > You will have to enlarge this - she is the figure on the bottom right of > the centre panel. > > The Descent from the Cross (huge, in the Prado in Madrid. She is wearing > what looks like a gown made from oblongs of wool - quite fascinating- I > spent ages in front of it and still haven't worked it out!). (Also called > the Deposition from the Cross) > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/decent.jpg > > I realise these are not 16th century, but short sleeves kirtles were > obviously worn earlier, so is it possibly that the fashion could have > continued in the later period? > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 08:04:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21D4L4C007628 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:04:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21D4LnG025115; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:04:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Cx0lx093616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:59:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21CwxRY019768; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:58:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21CwuDG019693 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:58:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.1ac.48de16c1 (15864) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID63-3df844059a81140; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 07:58:47 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:58:41 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 08:04:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44059BD5.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k21D4L4C007628 Status: RO Looks like she is preparing flax. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 1, 2006, at 4:11 AM, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 01:59 PM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >> I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like. > > > Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this > image below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached > sleeve? > > http://www.morganlibrary.org/collections/collections.asp?id=60 > zoom in close to the far left of the image. It is a woman working > whacking something. She's wearing green dress with short upper > sleeves, and a pinkish colored lower sleeve. She's holding a cudgel? > or something in her hands. > > Granted, it is a working woman who is from Belgium, not England. She's > also not a noble woman, but could this be an example of something > similar to what we can't see under Tudor gowns? > > Kimiko > She who may be grasping at straws in the early morning hours. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 08:31:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21DVLa0008187 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:31:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21DVMf9002400; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:31:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21DUwdg000380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:30:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21DUtDr045765; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:30:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav9.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21Cj7BA011066 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:45:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:45:03 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV9.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:45:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:44:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2006 12:45:03.0476 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5E31340:01C63D2D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 08:31:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405A22A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I don't know about the short sleeves but she is whacking linen. I saw a demonstration at my weaving guild and it was just like that. I'm not familar with the term for the technique. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:11 AM Subject: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} > At 01:59 PM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >>I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like. > > > Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this image > below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached sleeve? > > http://www.morganlibrary.org/collections/collections.asp?id=60 > zoom in close to the far left of the image. It is a woman working whacking > something. She's wearing green dress with short upper sleeves, and a > pinkish colored lower sleeve. She's holding a cudgel? or something in her > hands. > > Granted, it is a working woman who is from Belgium, not England. She's > also not a noble woman, but could this be an example of something similar > to what we can't see under Tudor gowns? > > Kimiko > She who may be grasping at straws in the early morning hours. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 08:45:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21DjUcE008536 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:45:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21DjQND008473; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:45:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Dj5CI001874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:45:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21Dj4Fu056861; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:45:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21DivBg056743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:45:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [10.0.1.31] (69-171-202-42.sbtnvt.adelphia.net [69.171.202.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21DipeT026641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:44:56 -0500 Message-ID: <4405A4BF.3030107@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 08:42:23 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050716 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 08:45:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405A576.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO There are several images of working women in the DaCosta Hours who are wearing the short sleeve/protective sleeve combo. Here they are: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/work/index.html And as Suzi added, quite a few late 15th century versions of short sleeved gowns. Here are some (scroll down to the "kirtle" section). I notice this has become a very popular look in SCA/Ren Faire circles. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/ I agree with you about that multi-panel skirt--fascinating! Here's a bit of a close-up: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/weyden2.jpg (A couple examples of the odd hat as well.) Though I don't have scans of them, there are a couple non-Italian 15th cent. depictions of women in sleeveless gowns. One was either Netherlandish or German--a woman attending the birth of the Virgin Mary--but I'll have to go look it up. - Hope Kimiko wrote: >> Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this >> image below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached >> sleeve? Suzi Clarke added: > http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/m/michele/index.html > And there are several short sleeved garments in paintings by Rogier van > der Weyden, c. 1450, one of which clearly shows the pin holding the > sleeve on, although this may actually be from the shoulder strap. > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg > The Descent from the Cross (huge, in the Prado in Madrid. She is wearing > what looks like a gown made from oblongs of wool - quite fascinating- I > spent ages in front of it and still haven't worked it out!). (Also > called the Deposition from the Cross) > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/decent.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 10:41:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21FfGcD011479 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:41:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21FfGY0001784; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:41:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Fefrx020359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:40:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21FeW3k068806; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:40:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21FeSEn068623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:40:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FETRB-0004vY-5S; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:40:25 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:40:25 -0500 Message-ID: <20060301104025.lni9y6mf5jk0cw44@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:40:25 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:41:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405C09C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting otsisto : > Nice site. > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html > If you go to the purple dress, the all white and cream garment is the > kirtle. There's a red version that shows layers as well http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/eliztower.html > She seems to have used the kirtle bodice as a corset and boned it. This is > interesting, I wonder if this is learning from extent garments or theory. I'm hoping that this is something that she'll address in her book Tudor Tailor. http://www.tudortailor.com/ It's supposed to be out this month! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 10:50:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21FoXFF011770 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:50:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21FoY51006728; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:50:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Fns41021725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:49:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21FnfME078178; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:49:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21FnZ5H077981 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:49:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.12c.6fc52a8d (16112) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:49:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-r22 (mblk-r22.mblk.aol.com [152.163.211.213]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID124-3ef04405c2723a9; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:49:06 -0500 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:49:06 -0500 From: tearoses@aol.com Message-Id: <8C80B5ECE8C9B40-1310-2572@mblk-r22.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User Received: from 68.143.196.38 by mblk-r22.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.213) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:49:06 -0500 X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.213 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle, air filter hat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:50:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405C2CA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I recently came across this excellent web page covering both of these subjects: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/ Scroll down to the "kirtle" heading for images of short-sleeved kirtles from just before the Tudor time period. In the first image of her "transition dress" section, you can see a dress that looks remarkably like a Tudor gown, only the outermost layer has short, fur-lined sleeves and the big bell sleeves are on the underdress. To me, it seems like it would be the next step to wear the big sleeves on the outside and the short-sleeved gown underneath. You can also see that she has a third, narrow sleeve under the other two, which must have evolved into the slashed faux sleeves of the Tudor dress. If you scroll down below that, there's a heading of "Other Headdresses" which includes several other images of the mysterious air filter hat. Hope this helps! Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 11:40:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21GeuZc013212 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:40:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21GevET031067; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:40:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21GZI7L028314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:35:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21GZ6UW025416; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:35:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21GZ0FB025216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:35:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEUHu-0002Z0-7o; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:34:54 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:34:54 -0500 Message-ID: <20060301113454.bne6ffafm57sokcc@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:34:54 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> <4405A4BF.3030107@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: <4405A4BF.3030107@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=23% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:41:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405CE99.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Hope Greenberg : > > I agree with you about that multi-panel skirt--fascinating! Here's a > bit of a close-up: > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/weyden2.jpg I've always liked that one. Looks like it was made from The Remnant Bag [funny, how all the pieces look alike instead of "patchwork!" :-)] It would be an interesting exercise to do some math on that painting and come up with a size for those little trapezoids! Let's see, there's 2.5 from her waist to her knee so that puts them in the 6-8" tall range. Reckon that this skirt *was* produced from the cabbage? > > Though I don't have scans of them, there are a couple non-Italian > 15th cent. depictions of women in sleeveless gowns. One was either > Netherlandish or German--a woman attending the birth of the Virgin > Mary--but I'll have to go look it up. > You'll have to let us know what the paintings are when you get the information -- they may be online somewher! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 12:54:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21HssSH015839 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:54:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21Hsshj002236; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:54:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Hs2wm043868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:54:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21HrpsL012441; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:53:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21Hre3x012282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:53:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:29397 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FEVWC-0005ax-3L for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:53:46 -0600 Message-ID: <010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245><001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub> <6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (was PrincessElizabeth) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:53:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:54:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405DFEE.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" > While I agree with you, I would love to know the specific documentation > you have on this. I am working on an upcoming show and tell lecture for my > faire community where I deal with various Ren-faire costuming myths being > busted by showing the historical images, if any, or other historical > documentation that is available. While this was something I guessed at, it > isn't something I've been able to show a "proof" of either way. I would > love to be able to do so. Well, this is going to be the short version! I have a room full of new cloth and I want to go sew now! =} It is largely deductive; it can't help but be, in the absence of some document from 1550 saying "I wish mightily that they woulde make alle good speed to invent the bloddy corset already, els I will surely bust myne seames." However, the best proof lies in its conspicuous absense in places where it certainly should be present if worn. For example, here's a quote from 1532-5 by Francois Rabelais: "Next to the smock they put on the pretty kirtle or vasquin of pure silk chamelot; above that went the taffatie or tabi vardingale, of white, red tanne, gray or any other colour; above this taffatie petticoat they had another of cloth of tissue or brocade, embroidered with fine gold, and interlaced with needlework or as they thought good." Now if they wore corsets, it would surely be listed here, yes? You find the same conspicuous absence in inventories of the day. Instead, the inventories and other accounts of the day DO list what they used instead. In the quote above, it is the "pretty kirtle or vasquin" [the vasquine being a garment with a stiffened bodice and a skirt]. In an inventory of the era, it is: "3 ells white Parchet (fustian) under the bodice at 27 pfund for stiffening." For Katherine of Aragon in her last years, it was "Item, three breeste clothis of Hollande cloth with tapis of the same." Also helpful are descriptions by foreigners of the odd things they found while traveling. Here's a quote from a travelogue by a Spanish courtier who accompanied Prince Phillip to England in 1554; I'm including more that necessary here, because it's funny, and also useful to anyone dealing with this period: "The Queen, however, is not at all beautiful; small, and rather flabby than fat, she is of white complexion and fair, and has no eyebrows. She is a perfect saint, and dresses badly. All the women here wear petticoats of coloured cloth without admixture of silk, and above come coloured robes of damask, satin or velvet, very badly cut. Their shoes are sometimes of velvet, but more often of leather, and they wear black stockings and show their legs up to the knee when walking. As their skirts are not long they are passably immodest when walking, and even when seated. They are neither beautiful nor graceful when dancing, and their dances only consist in strutting or trotting about. Not a single Spanish gentleman has fallen in love with one of them nor takes any interest in them, and their feelings for us are the same." Here we get more speculative and deductive; the Spanish almost certainly originated the vasquine (described above) and therefore are used to seeing firm figures. In fact, the supported body is called a "spagnolized body" in 1588. As one can easily fit over a firm underpinning such as the vasquine (or a corset), clothing fit without the benefit of these firm underpinnings will indeed look badly cut to a Spanish eye, and a Mary will indeed look flabby without support. The travelogue is also useful in tracking who's got it and who doesn't, when it does arrive. For example, a Venetian ambassador visiting France described the following in 1577: "French women have inconcievably narrow waists ...[stuff about farthingales]. Over the chemise they wear a corset or bodice, that they call a "corps pique" which makes their shape more delicate and more slender. It is fastened behind which helps show off the form of the bust." This tells us that while the French had the corset in 1577, the Venetians most likely did not. [Note: the word 'corset' here doesn't mean much, for two reasons. First, this is a translation, and I don't know what word was actually used in the original. Second, 'corset' didn't mean 'corset' in the modern sense until around the early 19th century. More on that below.] Finally, there's the matter of the amount of notice that corsets attracted when they began to be known. They're commented on, they're preached against, they're made fun of in verse, and generally start a noticeable buzz. Earlier, all sorts of fashion innovations are ridiculed; if corsets existed in the same places earlier, surely they would be ridiculed there as well! Here's an example: "These privie coates, by art made strong with bones, with past, with such like ware Whereby their backe and sides grow long, and now they harnest gallants are; Were they for use against the foe, Our dames for amazones might goe." (Stephen Gosson, 1596) >From here, I'll let you look into it, but here's a few tips. First, if you don't already have them, get or check out: "Corsets and Crinolines" by Norah Waugh "The Corset: A Cultural History" by Valerie Steele Neither is absolutely infallible, but both will be very helpful. Second, watch out for the terminology in inventories, letters, etc. Like I noted above, a corset is not a corset. A corse isn't one either, for that matter. Words and phrases to watch for are: pair of bodies petticoat bodies corps a pique' French bodice/bodies privy coat whalebone bodice/bodies Third, here is the approximate corset timeline I've worked out. It's rough and I'm doing it by memory rather than looking at my notes, so disclaimer, etc. c1500-20: popularization of the busk [Italian] c1520: vasquine [Spanish] c1520-1570: vasquine spreads across Europe; bodices in general are stiffened, but do not become a separate garment c1570-77: separate stiffened bodice [French] c1580-1590: 'French bodice' infiltrates England Hope this helps. You can distribute it/use it for teaching, but please keep my name attached! Elena House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 13:37:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21IbFph016584 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:37:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21IbGc5021155; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:37:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21IapZ2050677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:36:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21IaiAl052785; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:36:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com (msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com [192.25.240.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21FRelH055360 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:27:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sunshine_buchler@agilent.com) Received: from relcos2.cos.agilent.com (relcos2.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.237]) by msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E7BC233A8 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:27:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from wlvdvs01.lvld.agilent.com (wlvdvs01.lvld.agilent.com [148.5.6.4]) by relcos2.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA0CB02 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:27:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from wcosbh03.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.128]) by wlvdvs01.lvld.agilent.com with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 08:27:33 -0700 Received: from wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.80]) by wcosbh03.cos.agilent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:27:33 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:27:33 -0700 Message-ID: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B077BBF6C@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 207 Thread-Index: AcY9MPS7gwWBMaL6RXWgNxyrQh3mfgAEIDzg From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2006 15:27:33.0846 (UTC) FILETIME=[A98F7760:01C63D44] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k21FRelH055360 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 207 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 13:37:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405E9DC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My comments are in reference to this site: http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html > So what she has is: > smock > bodice and wool skirt > petticoat > farthingale > kirtle/corset > gown. > Is this correct? > I have alway thought it was: > smock (maybe underwear) > kirtle > gown I'm hoping that the _Tudor Tailor_ book that's coming out soon will answer these questions. Based on my perusal of portraits the Farthingale layer is optional -- c1530 most portraits don't show it, however by 1545, the royal family at least is wearing farthingales. Supposedly farthingales were introduced into England by Catharine of Aragon, but they don't seem to have caught on immediately. According to Ninya, "The first farthingale mentioned in England was in the Royal Wardrobe accounts in 1545 for Princess Elizabeth" Ninya Mikhaila's site is the only reference I've seen to the odd red bodice/wool skirt/petticoat thing. Awhile ago she had a pdf on her website (which I can no longer find on-line; it was titled "Background and references to the reproduction of the costume worn by Princess Elizabeth in the 1546 portrait at Windsor" and the name of the pdf was Sources_for_Elizabeth.pdf) that did talk a little about the petticoat: "It is clear from household accounts of this period that a lady's outfit above her smock consisted of a petticoat, kirtle and gown. Since we are not left with much in the way of visual information to work from there is an amount of conjecture as to exactly how these garments were constructed and what they actually looked like. Petticoats are usually listed as having 'bodies' as well as skirts, interestingly the Petre accounts suggest only one and a quarter yards of cloth for a petticoat. Although cloth was wider than silk it still suggests a fairly skimpy garment. Janet Arnold suggests that the upper part of the petticoat was merely there to keep the skirts up and therefore could be almost as minimal as a pair of braces. The petticoat we have made to go with this costume has a red taffeta bodice and a red wool skirt. This combination is based on an entry in Mary I accounts for 1554 - '...a peticoate of scarlet, the upper bodyes of crimson tapheta...' Petticoats mentioned in contemporary accounts from Thomasine Petre to Mary I are always red, it may have been thought that some kind of healthful benefit could be derived from wearing red close to the body, one of Henry VIII's physicians advised that scarlet be worn next over the shirt (cunnington 1970, 26)" The layers Ninya used, as I see it are: Smock Red wool/taffeta petticoat Farthingale Kirtle Gown Hope that's useful! -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 14:19:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21JJs1i017290 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:19:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21JJt95007967; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:19:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21JHaGF057623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:17:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21JHRbc096176; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:17:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21JHGEL095902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:17:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEWp0-0002sC-3D; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 13:17:14 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:17:14 -0500 Message-ID: <20060301141714.imyu175194ww0s04@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:17:14 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (was PrincessElizabeth) References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245><001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub> <6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> <010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:19:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405F3DB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting E House : *snippage* > Now if they wore corsets, it would surely be listed here, yes? You > find the same conspicuous absence in inventories of the day. > Instead, the inventories and other accounts of the day DO list what > they used instead. In the quote above, it is the "pretty kirtle or > vasquin" [the vasquine being a garment with a stiffened bodice and a > skirt]. In an inventory of the era, it is: "3 ells white Parchet > (fustian) under the bodice at 27 pfund for stiffening." For > Katherine of Aragon in her last years, it was "Item, three breeste > clothis of Hollande cloth with tapis of the same." So how is "a garment with a stiffened bodice" different from a boned kirtle, and how is that *fundamentally* different from a corset? (aside from the obvious thing that a corset in and of itself doesn't have an attached skirt -- which is why I said "fundamentally") Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 14:31:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21JVIQZ017557 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:31:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21JVJr6013742; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:31:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21JUuhd060035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:30:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21JUsI1010546; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:30:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav4.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21JUjM0010317 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:30:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:30:37 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:30:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060301104025.lni9y6mf5jk0cw44@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:30:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2006 19:30:37.0321 (UTC) FILETIME=[9DFD2790:01C63D66] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:31:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405F687.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Yes, Mine is on order!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth > Quoting otsisto : > >> Nice site. >> http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html >> If you go to the purple dress, the all white and cream garment is the >> kirtle. > > There's a red version that shows layers as well > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/eliztower.html > >> She seems to have used the kirtle bodice as a corset and boned it. This >> is >> interesting, I wonder if this is learning from extent garments or theory. > > I'm hoping that this is something that she'll address in her book Tudor > Tailor. > > http://www.tudortailor.com/ > > It's supposed to be out this month! > > Susan > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 14:49:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21JmxOD018048 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:48:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21Jn0Bt021496; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:49:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Jln8W062898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:47:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21JlkTw027567; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:47:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21JlhL7027428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:47:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEXIT-00066j-1z; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 13:47:41 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:47:41 -0500 Message-ID: <20060301144741.knhcg00zf5674os8@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:47:41 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 207 References: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B077BBF6C@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> In-Reply-To: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B077BBF6C@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:49:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405FAAC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting sunshine_buchler@agilent.com: > > I'm hoping that the _Tudor Tailor_ book that's coming out soon will > answer these questions. Based on my perusal of portraits the > Farthingale layer is optional -- c1530 most portraits don't show it, > however by 1545, the royal family at least is wearing farthingales. > Supposedly farthingales were introduced into England by Catharine of > Aragon, but they don't seem to have caught on immediately. According > to Ninya, "The first farthingale mentioned in England was in the > Royal Wardrobe accounts in 1545 for Princess Elizabeth" > > Ninya Mikhaila's site is the only reference I've seen to the odd red > bodice/wool skirt/petticoat thing. Awhile ago she had a pdf on her > website (which I can no longer find on-line; it was titled > "Background and references to the reproduction of the costume worn by > Princess Elizabeth in the 1546 portrait at Windsor" and the name of > the pdf was Sources_for_Elizabeth.pdf) that did talk a little about > the petticoat: google is your friend! I went and poked around the Internet Archive (aka The Wayback Machine) with no success and then just googled for the title! http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Images/Sources_for_Elizabeth.pdf Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 15:09:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21K9Igg018530 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:09:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21K9ICj030483; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:09:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21K95A9066774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:09:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21K92Zp050019; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:09:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21K8vv6049913 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:08:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE3CEEE05B2; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:04:12 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:09:04 -0800 Message-ID: <002501c63d6b$fdc1cf50$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <20060301113454.bne6ffafm57sokcc@www.goldsword.com> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k21K8vv6049913 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:09:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405FF6E.00A by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Is it possible that the lines are woven into the fabric? After all, her sleeve fabric has very elaborate flowered scroll designs. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Susan B. Farmer Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:35 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Quoting Hope Greenberg : > > I agree with you about that multi-panel skirt--fascinating! Here's a > bit of a close-up: > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/weyden2.jpg I've always liked that one. Looks like it was made from The Remnant Bag [funny, how all the pieces look alike instead of "patchwork!" :-)] It would be an interesting exercise to do some math on that painting and come up with a size for those little trapezoids! Let's see, there's 2.5 from her waist to her knee so that puts them in the 6-8" tall range. Reckon that this skirt *was* produced from the cabbage? > > Though I don't have scans of them, there are a couple non-Italian > 15th cent. depictions of women in sleeveless gowns. One was either > Netherlandish or German--a woman attending the birth of the Virgin > Mary--but I'll have to go look it up. > You'll have to let us know what the paintings are when you get the information -- they may be online somewher! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 15:10:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21KAfW0018577 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:10:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21KAfFU017025; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:10:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21K9sT3067009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:09:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21K9n92050791; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:09:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21K9cn7050595 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:09:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55c2.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.194]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 31BD5262879 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:09:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005701c63d6c$181bb870$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245><001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub><6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> <010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (wasPrincessElizabeth) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:09:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:10:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405FFC1.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bravo!!!! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (wasPrincessElizabeth) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kimiko Small" >> While I agree with you, I would love to know the specific documentation >> you have on this. I am working on an upcoming show and tell lecture for >> my faire community where I deal with various Ren-faire costuming myths >> being busted by showing the historical images, if any, or other >> historical documentation that is available. While this was something I >> guessed at, it isn't something I've been able to show a "proof" of either >> way. I would love to be able to do so. > > > Well, this is going to be the short version! I have a room full of new > cloth and I want to go sew now! =} > > It is largely deductive; it can't help but be, in the absence of some > document from 1550 saying "I wish mightily that they woulde make alle good > speed to invent the bloddy corset already, els I will surely bust myne > seames." > > However, the best proof lies in its conspicuous absense in places where it > certainly should be present if worn. For example, here's a quote from > 1532-5 by Francois Rabelais: > "Next to the smock they put on the pretty kirtle or vasquin of pure silk > chamelot; above that went the taffatie or tabi vardingale, of white, red > tanne, gray or any other colour; above this taffatie petticoat they had > another of cloth of tissue or brocade, embroidered with fine gold, and > interlaced with needlework or as they thought good." > Now if they wore corsets, it would surely be listed here, yes? You find > the same conspicuous absence in inventories of the day. Instead, the > inventories and other accounts of the day DO list what they used instead. > In the quote above, it is the "pretty kirtle or vasquin" [the vasquine > being a garment with a stiffened bodice and a skirt]. In an inventory of > the era, it is: "3 ells white Parchet (fustian) under the bodice at 27 > pfund for stiffening." For Katherine of Aragon in her last years, it was > "Item, three breeste clothis of Hollande cloth with tapis of the same." > > Also helpful are descriptions by foreigners of the odd things they found > while traveling. Here's a quote from a travelogue by a Spanish courtier > who accompanied Prince Phillip to England in 1554; I'm including more that > necessary here, because it's funny, and also useful to anyone dealing with > this period: > "The Queen, however, is not at all beautiful; small, and rather flabby > than fat, she is of white complexion and fair, and has no eyebrows. She > is a perfect saint, and dresses badly. All the women here wear petticoats > of coloured cloth without admixture of silk, and above come coloured robes > of damask, satin or velvet, very badly cut. Their shoes are sometimes of > velvet, but more often of leather, and they wear black stockings and show > their legs up to the knee when walking. As their skirts are not long they > are passably immodest when walking, and even when seated. They are > neither beautiful nor graceful when dancing, and their dances only consist > in strutting or trotting about. Not a single Spanish gentleman has fallen > in love with one of them nor takes any interest in them, and their > feelings for us are the same." > Here we get more speculative and deductive; the Spanish almost certainly > originated the vasquine (described above) and therefore are used to seeing > firm figures. In fact, the supported body is called a "spagnolized body" > in 1588. As one can easily fit over a firm underpinning such as the > vasquine (or a corset), clothing fit without the benefit of these firm > underpinnings will indeed look badly cut to a Spanish eye, and a Mary will > indeed look flabby without support. > > The travelogue is also useful in tracking who's got it and who doesn't, > when it does arrive. For example, a Venetian ambassador visiting France > described the following in 1577: > "French women have inconcievably narrow waists ...[stuff about > farthingales]. Over the chemise they wear a corset or bodice, that they > call a "corps pique" which makes their shape more delicate and more > slender. It is fastened behind which helps show off the form of the bust." > This tells us that while the French had the corset in 1577, the Venetians > most likely did not. [Note: the word 'corset' here doesn't mean much, for > two reasons. First, this is a translation, and I don't know what word was > actually used in the original. Second, 'corset' didn't mean 'corset' in > the modern sense until around the early 19th century. More on that > below.] > > Finally, there's the matter of the amount of notice that corsets attracted > when they began to be known. They're commented on, they're preached > against, they're made fun of in verse, and generally start a noticeable > buzz. Earlier, all sorts of fashion innovations are ridiculed; if corsets > existed in the same places earlier, surely they would be ridiculed there > as well! Here's an example: > "These privie coates, by art made strong > with bones, with past, with such like ware > Whereby their backe and sides grow long, > and now they harnest gallants are; > Were they for use against the foe, > Our dames for amazones might goe." (Stephen Gosson, 1596) > >>From here, I'll let you look into it, but here's a few tips. First, if >>you > don't already have them, get or check out: > "Corsets and Crinolines" by Norah Waugh > "The Corset: A Cultural History" by Valerie Steele > Neither is absolutely infallible, but both will be very helpful. > Second, watch out for the terminology in inventories, letters, etc. Like > I noted above, a corset is not a corset. A corse isn't one either, for > that matter. Words and phrases to watch for are: > pair of bodies > petticoat bodies > corps a pique' > French bodice/bodies > privy coat > whalebone bodice/bodies > Third, here is the approximate corset timeline I've worked out. It's > rough and I'm doing it by memory rather than looking at my notes, so > disclaimer, etc. > c1500-20: popularization of the busk [Italian] > c1520: vasquine [Spanish] > c1520-1570: vasquine spreads across Europe; bodices in general are > stiffened, but do not become a separate garment > c1570-77: separate stiffened bodice [French] > c1580-1590: 'French bodice' infiltrates England > > > Hope this helps. You can distribute it/use it for teaching, but please > keep my name attached! > Elena House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 15:12:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21KCVgg018651 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:12:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21KCWgi031948; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21KBlu8067413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:11:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21KBg66052994; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:11:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21KBXTh052811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:11:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [10.0.1.32] (69-171-202-42.sbtnvt.adelphia.net [69.171.202.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21KBRsO001799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:11:32 -0500 Message-ID: <4405FFEE.3070400@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:11:26 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 207 References: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B077BBF6C@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> <20060301144741.knhcg00zf5674os8@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: <20060301144741.knhcg00zf5674os8@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44060030.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO re: the petticoat: Red may well have been a favorite color but it should be noted that the term "scarlet" is also a tricky one. At times it has referred not to a color but to a type of cloth, generally a really fine smooth wool. One of the essays in Harte, N.B. and K.G. Ponting, "Cloth and clothing in medieval Europe : essays in memory of Professor E.M. Carus-Wilson" (London: Heinemann Educational Books ; [Edington] : Pasold Research Fund, 1983). discusses this but I don't have the book to hand to specify which one. - Hope >> and references to the reproduction of the costume worn by >> Princess Elizabeth in the 1546 portrait at Windsor" and the name of >> the pdf was Sources_for_Elizabeth.pdf) that did talk a little about >> the petticoat: > > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Images/Sources_for_Elizabeth.pdf _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 15:21:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21KLBMs018919 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:21:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21KLCS8003251; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:21:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21KKR53068959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:20:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21KKFae062313; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:20:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21KK7GV062109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:20:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEXnp-0001Bc-GC; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:20:05 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:20:05 -0500 Message-ID: <20060301152005.uusk7amscgc0oswk@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:20:05 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} References: <002501c63d6b$fdc1cf50$0200a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <002501c63d6b$fdc1cf50$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:21:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44060238.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting "Sharon at Collierfam.com" : > Is it possible that the lines are woven into the fabric? After all, her > sleeve fabric has very elaborate flowered scroll designs. I have *no* clue! It's rows of "alternating" trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ is the apparrent arrangement of the pieces Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 16:36:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21LaCmI021021 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:36:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21LaD7m001348; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:36:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21LYEH5079889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:34:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21LXxI7031610; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:34:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21LXoeY031438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:33:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:29997 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FEYxE-0003PZ-Hq for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:33:53 -0600 Message-ID: <000f01c63d77$d2a09660$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245><001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub><6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245><010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> <20060301141714.imyu175194ww0s04@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (wasPrincessElizabeth) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:33:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:36:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440613CD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" > So how is "a garment with a stiffened bodice" different from a boned > kirtle, and how is that *fundamentally* different from a corset? (aside > from the obvious thing that a corset in and of itself doesn't > have an attached skirt -- which is why I said "fundamentally") Well, it's different, and it's not. Having a separate garment devoted to the stiffening IS an important distinction; think of it in terms of bras. Before the bra, there was a garment that provided bust support, but that bust support was only a part of a whole garment. So are bras different than corsets? Well, yes, and no. Same basic end; very different means. While some of the bodices were boned, they seem to have been boned very lightly until the last third of the 16thC; most common would have been just a busk. Far more common than boning would have been the use of a slightly stiffer fabric, as with the parchet in the inventory I quoted, or at most buckram: "...some by wastes of wyre at the paste wyfes hand." So, though they are stiffened, the stiffening is pretty minor; the stiffening effect of the bodice isn't likely to be enough to even warrant being made into a separate garment. Also, the skirt is an integral part of the garment not only in terms of being actually sewn onto it, but in terms of the function of the whole garment. This whole garment was used to provide the right fundamental shape for the style; that style included a firm body, and it included full skirts and the illusion of large hips. When farthingales come into fashion, the kirtle or petticoat worn under it performs the important function of protecting your legs from drafts. Attaching that skirt to the bodice is important in functional terms; you want both the form-changing bodice part and the leg-warming skirt part as close to your body as possible, because they work best and are most comfortable that way. The whole garment is a solution to a specific body-shaping problem; a problem which has been solved in different ways over the centuries, and which must be solved in different ways the desired body shape changes over time. In the 13thC, the solution was breast-wrapping; in the 14th, it was the GFD; in the 15th, it was both a later version of the GFD and an early version of the bodice-skirt kirtle; in the early 16th, it was the vasquine and farthingale; in the late 16th, it was the payre of bodyes and farthingale. In the 17th it was high waist lines then boned bodices; in the 18th it was stays and panniers; in the 19th it was corsets and hoops; in the 20th & 21st it is bras and bike shorts. So are they all fundamentally different? Yes. No. Both! Same basic end; very different means. -E House (Help! I've been answering emails from various sources for 5 and a half hours! Must stop while still have brain!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 18:15:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21NFkue023471 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:15:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21NFlA9006435; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:15:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21NExPC095781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:14:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21NEhLJ028808; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:14:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail7.tpgi.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21NEWkv028560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:14:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-219-164-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.219.164]) by mail7.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k21NEQ7x026036 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:14:28 +1100 Message-ID: <009201c63d85$e13ace30$a4dbf5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:14:22 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 18:15:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44062B23.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > As far as I know the kirtle from this period does not have short sleeves > but > this doesn't mean there wasn't some with short sleeves. Does your source > for > short sleeve kirtles state where one can find the it? I would be > interested. > Hope all this makes sense. > De > Recovering from bronchitis so brain not quite pass first gear. I'm probably the one who gave her the idea of a short sleeved kirtle http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/kirtle/kirtle.htm I don't have direct evidence of short sleeved kirtles worn with this gown. It's really conjecture based on some early 16th century and late 15th century pictures of working women with short sleeved kirtles (mainly the Da Costa Hours here http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/work/) and the fact that it's the most effective way of attaching the false sleeves that I have tried so far. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 18:47:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21Nledl024312 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:47:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21Nlf0J017903; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:47:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Nl6TI001702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:47:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21Nl0MH061139; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:47:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav4.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21Nktdx060934 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:46:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:46:49 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:46:49 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <009201c63d85$e13ace30$a4dbf5dc@user4712b7d135> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:46:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2006 23:46:49.0646 (UTC) FILETIME=[689BCCE0:01C63D8A] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 18:47:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406329D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I couldn't remember who stated the information of short sleeve kirtle. I kept some and mostly didn't keep the contact information, just the messages. Thanks for the link. I will note it and put it in my files. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth > >> As far as I know the kirtle from this period does not have short sleeves >> but >> this doesn't mean there wasn't some with short sleeves. Does your source >> for >> short sleeve kirtles state where one can find the it? I would be >> interested. >> Hope all this makes sense. >> De >> Recovering from bronchitis so brain not quite pass first gear. > > I'm probably the one who gave her the idea of a short sleeved kirtle > http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/kirtle/kirtle.htm I don't have direct > evidence of short sleeved kirtles worn with this gown. It's really > conjecture based on some early 16th century and late 15th century pictures > of working women with short sleeved kirtles (mainly the Da Costa Hours > here http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/work/) and the fact that it's the most > effective way of attaching the false sleeves that I have tried so far. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 19:00:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2200fs1024643 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:00:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2200gED021909; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:00:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2200PPV003571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:00:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2200Nda073242; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:00:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2200HZk073123 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:00:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28165 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:32:21 -0600 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:32:18 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20060301152005.uusk7amscgc0oswk@www.goldsword.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Prado Magdalen's skirt (was: short sleeved kirtle) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:00:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440635AA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > I have *no* clue! It's rows of "alternating" trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ > is the apparrent arrangement of the pieces Actually, the trapezoids do not alternate. They are all placed with the short side up, so that they contribute to the flare of the skirt. (This is much clearer in person, on the painting, than in any reproduction.) The trapezoidal shape becomes less pronounced further down the skirt, where the shapes are both larger and closer to rectangular. There are I think five trapezoid rows, separated by horizontal strips (four in all) maybe two inches wide, forming essentially an alternating tiered pattern of stitching. There are also strips placed vertically alongside the lacing opening. We have had long discussions of this on the list before ... let's see, here's a post I wrote on July 26, 2002: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/index.cgi?l=hcos02&s=15th%20century%20female%20dress&Cmd=Match+2 This wasn't the first time we talked about this. Aha, here's an earlier thread, from January 2000: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/index.cgi?s=van+der+Weden+&l=hcos00 See in particular my post on Jan. 23, and the ones following that, which is where we talk about the skirt. But IIRC we also talk about pin-on sleeves and the "Fram air filter" hat in that thread. (Both of those topics keep coming up, every year or so, as the list population changes and new people come in.) The theory about the skirt that I find most interesting was, I think, Teddy's: That these may not be separate pieces of fabric arranged together, but rather stitching lines from the fur lining. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 19:03:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2203jNN024722 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:03:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2203ksX023152; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:03:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2202tNW003893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:02:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2202ts7075405; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:02:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxsf03.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf03.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2202otS075242 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:02:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fox3785@charter.net) Received: from mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net (mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.132]) by mxsf03.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k2202Z9S012704 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:02:35 -0500 Received: from 71-10-244-96.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com (HELO familyroom) ([71.10.244.96]) by mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 01 Mar 2006 19:02:36 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,158,1139202000"; d="scan'208"; a="2001773305:sNHT26441228" From: "The Foxes" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:02:40 -0500 Message-ID: <003001c63d8c$9f606bd0$0502a8c0@familyroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <4405A4BF.3030107@uvm.edu> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:03:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44063662.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO More short sleeved 15th century images.... http://gallica.bnf.fr/scripts/mediator.exe?F=C&L=08100001&I=000017 (parent page http://gallica.bnf.fr/scripts/Notice.php?O=08100001) http://gallica.bnf.fr/scripts/mediator.exe?F=C&L=08100062&I=000003 (parent page http://gallica.bnf.fr/scripts/Notice.php?O=08100062) http://classes.bnf.fr/ema/grands/399.htm http://classes.bnf.fr/ema/grands/ca066.htm http://classes.bnf.fr/ema/feuils/ages/index2.htm http://classes.bnf.fr/ema/grands/182.htm Good luck... -annette -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Hope Greenberg Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:42 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} There are several images of working women in the DaCosta Hours who are wearing the short sleeve/protective sleeve combo. Here they are: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/work/index.html And as Suzi added, quite a few late 15th century versions of short sleeved gowns. Here are some (scroll down to the "kirtle" section). I notice this has become a very popular look in SCA/Ren Faire circles. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/ I agree with you about that multi-panel skirt--fascinating! Here's a bit of a close-up: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/weyden2.jpg (A couple examples of the odd hat as well.) Though I don't have scans of them, there are a couple non-Italian 15th cent. depictions of women in sleeveless gowns. One was either Netherlandish or German--a woman attending the birth of the Virgin Mary--but I'll have to go look it up. - Hope Kimiko wrote: >> Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this >> image below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached >> sleeve? Suzi Clarke added: > http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/m/michele/index.html > And there are several short sleeved garments in paintings by Rogier van > der Weyden, c. 1450, one of which clearly shows the pin holding the > sleeve on, although this may actually be from the shoulder strap. > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg > The Descent from the Cross (huge, in the Prado in Madrid. She is wearing > what looks like a gown made from oblongs of wool - quite fascinating- I > spent ages in front of it and still haven't worked it out!). (Also > called the Deposition from the Cross) > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/decent.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 20:31:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k221Vqfm027210 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:31:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k221Vr9l018914; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:31:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k221VMqF021176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:31:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k221VKga052359; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:31:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mail.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k221VGKu052266 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:31:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.12a.6f5954c9 (4402) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:31:08 -0500 (EST) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <12a.6f5954c9.3137a4dc@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:31:08 EST Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:31:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44064B09.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Question (sort of) - if you have a query about something on Ninya's site, why don't you e-mail her and ask? Only say that cos I've seen questions about my own stuff on assorted lists before and felt the need to point out that they could have just asked me...:-) Debs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 21:15:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k222Fa02028401 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:15:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k222FbA0032662; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:15:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k222F2Ko027416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:15:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k222EpX1091464; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:14:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52813.mail.yahoo.com (web52813.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k222EC55090958 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:14:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 69023 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Mar 2006 02:14:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ZzxMBidB9rFKjN9uENvWjDDR1EDjwclyEETIQOfgEB68eHJL2mfYebM5VdVzkUDhje04tb0+bKFAz3C0lSwE6KJiX9akQqTis3ybqM1XVCyfyNuEFcsYblhRIWmTUcMeXrtBhdQYX1IqJzA/8iHVSoFdmVY2abxTUQNZU7QG7Cw= ; Message-ID: <20060302021407.69021.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52813.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 18:14:07 PST Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:14:07 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Parke To: h-costume@indra.com, TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:15:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44065549.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Could someone either describe or point me to a picture of an Alexandrian cap? I've googled to no avail. Thank you! KP --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 23:07:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2247SC0031447 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:07:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2247Q12003591; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:07:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2246hQk039927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:06:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2246eup080736; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:06:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2246am3080660 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:06:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BA71A36167 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:06:35 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:06:50 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20060302021407.69021.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:07:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44066F7E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Would it not be a Phrygian style hat? -----Original Message----- Could someone either describe or point me to a picture of an Alexandrian cap? I've googled to no avail. Thank you! KP _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 23:51:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k224pSmv032321 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:51:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k224pT6N017845; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:51:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k224pD6i044657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:51:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k224pCsx015782; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:51:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52813.mail.yahoo.com (web52813.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k224p9GY015648 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:51:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 24942 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Mar 2006 04:51:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=5woJ8jNBcqUoG5Ydtz/buuS6RspeEvL5ucJULOwEN19dGNo2WgOTm87YY7X0dQIAmbUGTr4JiswxBCUHMhKnyJoErY3iEdBvRz53oKRV3MXtlFTS0TkMvkfqJ+78f7/KGhpJUSylLboMcQVY3weMmYI0X091yfVATM3+895JEvM= ; Message-ID: <20060302045103.24940.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.248.213.27] by web52813.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:51:03 PST Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:51:03 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:51:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440679D1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) otsisto wrote: Would it not be a Phrygian style hat? -----Original Message----- Could someone either describe or point me to a picture of an Alexandrian cap? I've googled to no avail. Thank you! KP _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 00:02:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2252bCb032577 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:02:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2252com021658; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:02:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2252QOj045900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:02:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2252PJd024456; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:02:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2252KEW024389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:02:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.233] (pool180-61.patriot.net [209.249.180.61]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k2252DTO007575 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:02:18 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20060302045103.24940.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060302045103.24940.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:02:08 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:02:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44067C6E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Kind of like a Smurf hat... It's soft and fits to the head, except for a tip at the top that tends to point or lie forward. -Carol >Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) > > >otsisto wrote: > Would it not be a Phrygian style hat? > >-----Original Message----- >Could someone either describe or point me to a picture of an Alexandrian >cap? I've googled to no avail. > >Thank you! >KP _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 00:04:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22544YG032619 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:04:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k225455x016654; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:04:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2253nKP046035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:03:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2253nFj025556; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:03:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2253jEQ025431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:03:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEfyc-00021S-SJ; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:03:46 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:03:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20060302000346.76w8mzif3ogkcgkk@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:03:46 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap References: <20060302045103.24940.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060302045103.24940.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:04:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44067CC5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Kathryn Parke : > Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) > google image search is your friend http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=phrygian+hat&btnG=Search Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 00:06:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2256O9e032677 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:06:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2256PFL022818; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:06:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2256EQo046361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:06:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2256DTe027486; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:06:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22567qx027314 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:06:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.21a.8ff38b6 (3940) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:05:59 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <21a.8ff38b6.3137d737@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:05:59 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waugh's 1844 Corset To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:06:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44067D51.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 2/28/2006 5:50:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, sfarmer@goldsword.com writes: > I'm not sure what a "block" is. Is that the same thing as a muslin? > What we used to in school call a "sloper". What some pattern companies call a "fitting shell". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 01:27:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k226RQV0001999 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:27:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k226RPY6017123; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:27:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k226QE15058524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:26:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k226Q8PT096262; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k226Q39O096212 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:26:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20l3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.163] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FEhGE-0005yZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 01:26:03 -0500 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20060301232738.02b856e8@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:34:44 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200602280745.k1S7jngB066159@net.indra.com> References: <200602280745.k1S7jngB066159@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Quality of clothing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 01:27:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406904D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I shoulda known that my ASCII art would get messed up in translation. Oh, well. I have about 8 pairs of the Land's End cotton knit pants. Love them. I've totally worn out at least 5 pair. Or, I DID love them, till they changed the sizing. Now even the talls are too short and the crotch length is too - I hate it when the pants are hip-huggers when they're not supposed to be..... Sandy At 01:45 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 23:12:22 -0500 >From: Catherine Olanich Raymond >Subject: Re: [h-cost] sizing/quality of clothing > >I'm 5' 1", and I've always had the same problem with pants until Lands' End >changed its sizing. :-) >Cathy Raymond > > >Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:17:47 -0800 >From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" >Subject: RE: [h-cost] sizing/quality of clothing > >Ditto. When I was in high school I had a 24" waist and 40" hips. Thank >goodness I've found Lands End. They have cotton knit, elastic waist pants, >in petite and tall, too. Sharon "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 02:02:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2272a9K003235 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:02:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2272b72026988; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:02:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22717UN061623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:01:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22716M2018996; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:01:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp4.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k22710e0018937 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:01:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 13413 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 23:00:53 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 13402, pid: 13407, t: 1.3273s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp4 with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 23:00:51 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060301224834.0239c878@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:00:38 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redwork In-Reply-To: References: <20060223162106.93222.qmail@web53311.mail.yahoo.com> <20060225112912.e9b7z9vthkow8ss8@www.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp4.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 02:02:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406988D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 07:41 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: > > > > Mistress Aspasia, do you (or anybody else for that matter) know more > > about the painting that this detail is from? > > >I would have to research it and right now my husband is creating a series of >internet classes for St. Leo University. I have to sneak in time to even >check my email. I know the lady is 16th c. English...I think the Countess of >Hardwick. The others I will have to check. I have care of 3 yr old and 6 >yr old foster daughters that I have to keep a close eye on, so can't get too >distracted when I'm alone with them. I will try. Maybe someone else can >find them sooner. > >Aspasia Moonwind The sitter is the Elizabeth, Lady Cavendish, later the Countess of Shrewsbury (better known as Bess of Hardwick). The portrait is dated c. 1557. There is a lovely reproduction of it on page 8 of "Elizabethan Treasures: The Hardwick Hall Textiles" by Santina M. Levey. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 02:29:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k227TA6G008849 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:29:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k227T877001098; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:29:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k227SeW3063960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:28:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k227Sbeo037122; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:28:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k227SW9e037052 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:28:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 11307 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 23:28:32 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 11299, pid: 11300, t: 1.8331s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 23:28:30 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060301232736.0239cdf8@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:28:14 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 02:29:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44069EC4.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 04:44 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote: >I don't know about the short sleeves but she is whacking linen. I >saw a demonstration at my weaving guild and it was just like that. >I'm not familar with the term for the technique. Probably "breaking" flax. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 03:47:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k228ljam027280 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 03:47:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k228lkFL022838; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 03:47:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k228lSLG080775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k228lP9b090789; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k228lMw1090741 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6404831B for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:47:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060302004553.03567c58@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:46:38 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 03:47:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406B132.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 01:54 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote: >I realise these are not 16th century, but short sleeves kirtles were >obviously worn earlier, so is it possibly that the fashion could have >continued in the later period? > >Suzi Thank you Suzi for sharing those links. I can only presume that such fashions would continue and evolve into the next century, but I don't know how much of a leap that really is. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 03:47:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k228ljUH027279 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 03:47:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k228lkKc016176; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 03:47:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k228lSdo080774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k228lO3k090778; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k228lLlr090718 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCBD844850 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:47:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060302004434.036e8450@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:45:13 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle, air filter hat In-Reply-To: <8C80B5ECE8C9B40-1310-2572@mblk-r22.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C80B5ECE8C9B40-1310-2572@mblk-r22.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 03:47:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406B132.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 07:49 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote: >I recently came across this excellent web page covering both of these >subjects: > >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/ Thank you Tea Rose for that. I am not as familiar with images or styles of the century preceding, so that is a great help. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 04:32:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k229VvGD001999 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:31:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k229Vxcg004155; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:32:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k229VgTH094038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:31:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k229Vb3Q021269; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:31:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k229VXFu021144 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:31:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k229VRY21622.; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:31:27 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:31:27 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:31:15 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redwork Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k229VXFu021144 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 04:32:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406BB8F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It's also reproduced in "The Art of Dress", where it's attributed to a follower of Hans Eworth. No explanation is offered for the inscription "Maria Regina". Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> joanmj@surewest.net 02/03/2006 07:00 >>> At 07:41 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: > > > > Mistress Aspasia, do you (or anybody else for that matter) know more > > about the painting that this detail is from? > > >I would have to research it and right now my husband is creating a series of >internet classes for St. Leo University. I have to sneak in time to even >check my email. I know the lady is 16th c. English...I think the Countess of >Hardwick. The others I will have to check. I have care of 3 yr old and 6 >yr old foster daughters that I have to keep a close eye on, so can't get too >distracted when I'm alone with them. I will try. Maybe someone else can >find them sooner. > >Aspasia Moonwind The sitter is the Elizabeth, Lady Cavendish, later the Countess of Shrewsbury (better known as Bess of Hardwick). The portrait is dated c. 1557. There is a lovely reproduction of it on page 8 of "Elizabethan Treasures: The Hardwick Hall Textiles" by Santina M. Levey. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 08:16:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22DGTMq010485 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:16:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22DGUoi015491; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:16:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22DFvTP019881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:15:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22DFr74001437; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:15:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav17.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22DFoxU001376 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:15:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 05:15:47 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:15:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <12a.6f5954c9.3137a4dc@aol.com> Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:15:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2006 13:15:47.0212 (UTC) FILETIME=[6B409CC0:01C63DFB] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 08:16:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406F02E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I have written to her. She answered me quickly and said I could ask anytime. I just thought I'd pose a question to other costumers on the discussion boards. It really doesn't matter, but I can make the Princess Elizabeth garb now with confidence. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:31 PM Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth > > Question (sort of) - if you have a query about something on Ninya's site, > why > don't you e-mail her and ask? > > Only say that cos I've seen questions about my own stuff on assorted lists > before and felt the need to point out that they could have just asked > me...:-) > > Debs > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 09:08:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22E83QV011303 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:08:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22E84RF007750; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:08:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22E7HxY027394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:07:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22E7F4W047473; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:07:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22E7Cgl047413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:07:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from [64.186.88.122] (port=1540 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1FEoSU-0006Sm-EK for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:07:11 -0500 Message-ID: <4406FC08.9000409@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:07:04 -0500 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists References: <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <42C192F1.2010200@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <42C192F1.2010200@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:08:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406FC44.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > > The waist would be a horizontal oval intersecting those points, right? > Not a shape which dips down from the horizontal while intersecting those > points. > > I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that the > hem hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd hem the > skirts properly. If you really want the skirts to hang properly do as the women of the victorian age did and take the excess off of the top of the skirt and not the bottom. That way the grainline is still horizontal at the bottom and the excess is taken off of the top, where the problem is... This keeps the vertical grainline straight all around. Kitty in SW PA USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 09:18:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22EIXCw011511 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:18:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22EIYn5012532; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:18:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22EI2Lo028662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:18:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22EHxXh056561; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:17:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22EHt0D056512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:17:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from [64.186.88.122] (port=1544 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1FEoct-0006ga-6Y for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:17:56 -0500 Message-ID: <4406FE8E.6020203@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:17:50 -0500 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists References: <20050630112908.147EF15C81@mail03.powweb.com> In-Reply-To: <20050630112908.147EF15C81@mail03.powweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:18:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406FEBA.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Megan M. wrote: > I think it is more common than you think - I have the same issue. The > waistbands on my scrubs come up almost to my bra in front. And I don't know > why they cut them so high. *sigh* I guess that's why I like to sew. > -Megan > > for most of us it isn't the clothing which is cut high. it is our waists which have fallen in front. It happens when we have a bit to much tissue in front and weak stomach muscles allow it to fall, it creates a sway back which allows the waist to point downward in front. Kitty, who has done too many alterations for this problem. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:18:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FItGO013934 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:18:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FIuDF010502; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:18:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FIL7t041295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:18:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FIAfl014845; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:18:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.147]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21MwSlF013237 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:58:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.193]) by mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060301225822.PDJB3844.mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:58:22 +1300 Received: from web1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([219.89.183.2]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060301225822.VAON16143.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@web1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:58:22 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] (really [219.89.183.2]) by web1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail vG.2.00.00.00 201-2161-108-101-20050407) with ESMTP id <20060301225821.VKEO420.web1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:58:21 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.1.1/272]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:58:21 +1300 Message-ID: <005601c63d83$a32be1d0$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002501c63d6b$fdc1cf50$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <20060301152005.uusk7amscgc0oswk@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:58:20 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:18:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070CE0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > > Is it possible that the lines are woven into the fabric? After all, her > > sleeve fabric has very elaborate flowered scroll designs. > > I have *no* clue! It's rows of "alternating" trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ is > the apparrent arrangement of the pieces It's quite likely the shapes are caused by the fur lining. The fur would have to be pieced.Why they show through.... who knows. This was discussed somewhere.. I think the MedCos community. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/272 - Release Date: 1/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:21:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FLfrp014232 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:21:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FLhLu012041; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:21:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FL0M7042518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:21:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FKTvT017735; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:20:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.138]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k21NnZ7D063457 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:49:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 94742 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 23:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.226 with login) by smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 23:49:34 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060301234424.01de2c10@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:45:50 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} In-Reply-To: <20060301152005.uusk7amscgc0oswk@www.goldsword.com> References: <002501c63d6b$fdc1cf50$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <20060301152005.uusk7amscgc0oswk@www.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:21:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070D87.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 20:20 01/03/2006, you wrote: >Quoting "Sharon at Collierfam.com" : > >>Is it possible that the lines are woven into the fabric? After all, her >>sleeve fabric has very elaborate flowered scroll designs. > >I have *no* clue! It's rows of "alternating" trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ is >the apparrent arrangement of the pieces > >Susan >----- >Susan Farmer >sfarmer@goldsword.com >University of Tennessee >Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology >http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ That isn't the impression I got standing in front of it for ages last summer - it seemed almost to be a heavy wool type fabric. I longed to ask her to step down from the painting a minute and let me see. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:27:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FRHjw014581 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:27:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FRICD014865; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:27:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FQYVw044700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:26:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FQWSU026084; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:26:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k222cddX011338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:38:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEdiB-0004Ue-K7; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:38:39 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:38:39 -0500 Message-ID: <20060301213839.fik4jnvwye0cgw0s@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:38:39 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Prado Magdalen's skirt (was: short sleeved kirtle) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=21% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:27:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070ED7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Robin Netherton : > > On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > >> I have *no* clue! It's rows of "alternating" trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ >> is the apparrent arrangement of the pieces > > Actually, the trapezoids do not alternate. They are all placed with the > short side up, so that they contribute to the flare of the skirt. (This is > much clearer in person, on the painting, than in any reproduction.) The > trapezoidal shape becomes less pronounced further down the skirt, where > the shapes are both larger and closer to rectangular. You know, of course, that you're right! I looked again. I'm thinking that I"ve got a book that has a Really Good Copy of that painting, but I'm not finding it. I'm pretty sure that it's in the book on Campin. The authors (Thurleman -- u with an umlaut) present their case that it's actually Campin and not Weyden that is the painter here. If you're an Or Nue fan -- it is believed that Campin did the cartoons for the Vestments for the Order of the Golden Fleece -- and there are some **AWESOME** enlargements in this book of some of those figures. > > We have had long discussions of this on the list before ... let's see, > here's a post I wrote on July 26, 2002: Cool! Thanks for the links. That was before I joined this list. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:27:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FRVF1014605 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:27:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FRXoH032670; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:27:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FPqQS044451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FPepS024861; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:25:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k222TsQV004861 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:29:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m107.in-tch.com [216.166.191.107]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k222LCA25335 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:21:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <005701c63da2$31a2ffc0$6bbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245><6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1><4405A4BF.3030107@uvm.edu> <20060301113454.bne6ffafm57sokcc@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:37:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:27:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070EE5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Uh...I don't think it's a matter of cabbaging, if that's a word? ;o) I bet it's indicative of a fur lining. Several other paintings on that website depict fur-lined gowns/skirts, and have similar lines on the skirts. We've talked about something similar before (the painting's one of the ones on the website, which is what made me think "hmmm.....I wonder...." --sue (from montana) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} > Quoting Hope Greenberg : > > > > > > I agree with you about that multi-panel skirt--fascinating! Here's a > > bit of a close-up: > > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/weyden2.jpg > > I've always liked that one. Looks like it was made from The Remnant Bag > [funny, how all the pieces look alike instead of "patchwork!" :-)] It > would be an interesting exercise to do some math on that painting and > come up with a size for those little trapezoids! Let's see, there's > 2.5 from her waist to her knee so that puts them in the 6-8" tall > range. Reckon that this skirt *was* produced from the cabbage? > > > > > Though I don't have scans of them, there are a couple non-Italian > > 15th cent. depictions of women in sleeveless gowns. One was either > > Netherlandish or German--a woman attending the birth of the Virgin > > Mary--but I'll have to go look it up. > > > > You'll have to let us know what the paintings are when you get the > information -- they may be online somewher! > > Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:28:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FStLU014666 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:28:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FSuO3030898; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:28:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FSYpx045341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:28:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FSUNR028856; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:28:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k228lLxk090713 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A2034415C for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:47:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060302004000.035c74e8@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:44:19 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (was PrincessElizabeth) In-Reply-To: <010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245> <001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub> <6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> <010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:28:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070F38.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 09:53 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote: >Well, this is going to be the short version! I have a room full of new >cloth and I want to go sew now! =} Hey, I don't blame you. I hope you got in some good sewing time. >Hope this helps. You can distribute it/use it for teaching, but please >keep my name attached! >Elena House I really appreciate your time in explaining all of that. It's a lot to digest, but I am ok with that. I eagerly await your long version when you have the time. And I will check the "The Corset: A Cultural History" by Valerie Steele book. I already have Corsets & Crinolines, and will re-read it (which I haven't done in a long while). And I will definitely give you credits in my lecture. Thank you again, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:30:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FU577014702 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:30:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FU6b5016295; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:30:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FTcFD045670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:29:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FTbhm030417; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:29:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22DQUgL010961 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:26:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k22DQNG20426.; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:26:23 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:26:23 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:26:14 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k22DQUgL010961 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:30:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070F7F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her house. I've found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old and interesting, a lot of which have food stains on. I've washed them with Vanish (if you don't have that in the US, it's a new oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:30:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FUhEX014740 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:30:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FUiaZ001202; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:30:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FUFSg045846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:30:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FU8ZJ031105; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:30:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22EENrD053306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:14:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from [64.186.88.122] (port=1542 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1FEoZT-0005ne-8T for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:14:24 -0500 Message-ID: <4406FDB8.7020609@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:14:16 -0500 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists References: <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20050629231348.00c04730@pop-server.mn.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20050629231348.00c04730@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:30:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070FA4.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > At 02:12 PM 6/28/2005 -0400, you wrote: > > > >> I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that the >> hem hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd hem the >> skirts properly. >> >> -- >> Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > > You know, you're the first person I've ever heard of that has that > problem, like me. I cannot buy trousers to fit, the waistband sits in > the correct place in the back half of me but I have to fold over the top > of the front of the trousers. Usually at least by the width of the > waistband, sometimes more. > > Cheers, > Danielle > If there are no rivets at the waistband, take the waistband off at the front, cut the front down the appropriate amount at the CF tapering to nothing at the sides, and reapply the waistband. you may have to ease a bit of excess fabric in or make pleats on each side, but fabric, being made of threads, usually is fairly easy to ease in, (work extra fabric into a seam so it doesn't show that there is extra fabric on one side of the seam compared to the other). Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:31:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FVLA6014763 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:31:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FVMEv031600; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:31:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FUs42046078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:30:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FUnxF032057; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:30:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22EjwhS081890 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:46:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.28]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FEp41-0007Mt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:45:57 -0500 Message-ID: <5742410.1141310757361.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:45:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:31:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070FCA.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I was disappointed that, among all these images of the Phrygian or "liberty" cap, Google did NOT find the college seal of my alma mater, Dickinson College (est. 1773, Carlisle, PA). Our seal has three objects: a telescope, a Bible, and the Phrygian cap, along with the motto that we are the fortress of liberty! http://www.dickinson.edu/logo/faq10.html Costume-related: Is Dickinson the only college with an article of clothing in its heraldry? --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer Dickinson Class of '68 -----Original Message----- >From: "Susan B. Farmer" >Sent: Mar 2, 2006 12:03 AM >To: Historical Costume >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap > >Quoting Kathryn Parke : > >> Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) >> > >google image search is your friend >http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=phrygian+hat&btnG=Search > >Susan >----- >Susan Farmer >sfarmer@goldsword.com >University of Tennessee >Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology >http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:35:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FZOc6014926 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:35:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FZQ1L019070; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:35:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FZCfK047202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:35:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FZBJb037432; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:35:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FZ6Il037223 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:35:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.158.60dadc2c (16035) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:34:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID102-3ea3440710a023e; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:34:56 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20060301232738.02b856e8@pop.radiks.net> References: <200602280745.k1S7jngB066159@net.indra.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20060301232738.02b856e8@pop.radiks.net> Message-Id: <07a4bd6382022beebcdc6bef92ea7e5e@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Quality of clothing Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:34:55 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:35:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440710BE.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k22FZOc6014926 Status: RO Sandy- Tell them you don't like the change. Can't hurt and they might actually listen to a customer. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 2, 2006, at 12:34 AM, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > I shoulda known that my ASCII art would get messed up in translation. > Oh, well. > I have about 8 pairs of the Land's End cotton knit pants. Love them. > I've totally worn out at least 5 pair. Or, I DID love them, till they > changed the sizing. Now even the talls are too short and the crotch > length is too - I hate it when the pants are hip-huggers when they're > not supposed to be..... > > Sandy > > At 01:45 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: > >> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 23:12:22 -0500 >> From: Catherine Olanich Raymond >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sizing/quality of clothing >> >> I'm 5' 1", and I've always had the same problem with pants until >> Lands' End >> changed its sizing. :-) >> Cathy Raymond >> >> >> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:17:47 -0800 >> From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" >> Subject: RE: [h-cost] sizing/quality of clothing >> >> Ditto. When I was in high school I had a 24" waist and 40" hips. Thank >> goodness I've found Lands End. They have cotton knit, elastic waist >> pants, >> in petite and tall, too. Sharon > > "Those Who Fail To Learn History > Are Doomed to Repeat It; > Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- > Why They Are Simply Doomed. > > Achemdro'hm > "The Illusion of Historical Fact" > -- C.Y. 4971 > > Andromeda > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:52:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Fq1AJ016187 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:52:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Fq3kq027468; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:52:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FkUC2049115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:46:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Fk2BL048754; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:46:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Fji9t048393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:45:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEpzo-0006s8-Bd; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:45:40 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:45:40 -0500 Message-ID: <20060302104540.8y6vmkdvl61w4skk@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:45:40 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redwork References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:52:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440714A3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Kate M Bunting : > It's also reproduced in "The Art of Dress", where it's attributed to > a follower of Hans Eworth. No explanation is offered for the > inscription "Maria Regina". > > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> joanmj@surewest.net 02/03/2006 07:00 >>> > At 07:41 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >> > >> > Mistress Aspasia, do you (or anybody else for that matter) know more >> > about the painting that this detail is from? ^^^^^^ Oops, sorry; yall misunderstood -- I meant the *detail* of the painting where Christ is carrying the cross is from. The other two were full portraits, so I made the obviously invalid assumption that the word "detail" would be enough information. My bad. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 11:00:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22G0P9m017634 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:00:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22G0QoA031605; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:00:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Fslg5050425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:54:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Fsj9M057903; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:54:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FsgUJ057792 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:54:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04103 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:25:28 -0600 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:25:27 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} In-Reply-To: <005601c63d83$a32be1d0$0401010a@michaela> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:00:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407169A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, michaela wrote: > It's quite likely the shapes are caused by the fur lining. The fur > would have to be pieced.Why they show through.... who knows. > > This was discussed somewhere.. I think the MedCos community. No, here; see my note under a new subject line. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 11:50:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Go5Gc019949 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:50:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Go6HE024796; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:50:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22GnRm5060977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:49:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22GnIm0016999; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:49:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22GnFn4016826 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:49:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FF2FA302F for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:48:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <44072202.304@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:49:06 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:50:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407223E.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her house. I've found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old and interesting, a lot of which have food stains on. I've washed them with Vanish (if you don't have that in the US, it's a new oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? > Hydrogen peroxide is pretty mild, but if the oxy-stuff didn't work you may not have luck with this either. Tried sun-bleaching it? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 11:50:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Gorm8019992 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:50:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Got8B024841; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:50:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Gofd2061236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:50:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22GoeJv018275; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:50:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k22GoZDM018055 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:50:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 94267 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2006 16:50:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AD7tFclGD1vMh7zx9EJvb5fcY0Wh5DqL/faxjd7xW7AF+6cmhoWbHEMm9kblkwKTmJk86Xrev+k2hFZUqL3+fYh7DR+pGW5w5exfmml0ZfgUoeDo5tTtJqa9WETboLgsBhttdfouiTpVXOn7ThRNEtksBzwrHijzsLUir1t2r1k= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?70.27.127.33?) (nicolaa@rogers.com@70.27.127.33 with plain) by smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2006 16:50:28 -0000 Message-ID: <4407225E.2070609@rogers.com> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:50:38 -0500 From: Susan Carroll-Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists References: <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20050629231348.00c04730@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <4406FDB8.7020609@floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <4406FDB8.7020609@floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:50:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407226F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Greetings-- > Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: >> At 02:12 PM 6/28/2005 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >> >>> I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that >>> the hem hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd >>> hem the skirts properly. >>> >>> -- >>> Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent >> >> >> You know, you're the first person I've ever heard of that has that >> problem, like me. I cannot buy trousers to fit, the waistband sits >> in the correct place in the back half of me but I have to fold over >> the top of the front of the trousers. Usually at least by the width >> of the waistband, sometimes more. >> What's been a lifesaver for me lately are the pants they're selling with the lowered waistbands. I'm not talking hip-huggers---I've found that the "Ann" and "Marisa" styles at Ann Taylor Loft, both of which are cut slightly below the natural waist, fit me wonderfully and take care of that rolling waistband issue. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 13:33:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22IXfnV022871 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:33:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22IXghd008790; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:33:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22IWsUE083086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22IWYwE027809; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:32:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22IWQt5027625 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:32:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.25]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FEsbB-00021u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:32:25 -0500 Message-ID: <20466941.1141324345872.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:32:25 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] slightly O-T greetings of the (passing) season Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:33:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44073A86.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hello the list-- My truelove has kindly given me parking space on his website for the photo I took after our FIRST snowfall of the season and intended as a greeting card for the h-cost list. Today we're having what MIGHT be the last snowfall of the season. Who would expect in a modest little neighborhood in Fairfield Connecticut to drive around the corner and find a pair of snowpersons one of whom was wearing a HENNIN? I assume a little girl wanted to give her Hallowe'en costume one more day to shine....Anyway, with the homeowner's permission I took a photo of Snow Maiden and Swain. Go to http://www.doingagatha.com/ and scroll down to the photo at the lower left, just over the "Out of Pocket Productions" paragraph. He'll keep this on the page for a week or so, and I hope you see and enjoy it. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer p.s. Doing Agatha is an independent film written and produced by my truelove and soon (oh god please!) to be released. We are NOT using the h-cost list to promote the film; I don't have a website of my own to post pictures. Of course I do imagine you'll be amused and fascinated by the costuming in the film photo.... RAB _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 14:13:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JDcqY024775 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:13:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JDdfu026187; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:13:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22JD48M091548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:13:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22JCvYX072737; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:12:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com (msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com [192.25.240.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22JCrRl072577 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:12:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sunshine_buchler@agilent.com) Received: from relcos1.cos.agilent.com (relcos1.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.239]) by msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E9779CA for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:12:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from wcosvs02.cos.agilent.com (wcosvs02.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.188]) by relcos1.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01672A6 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:12:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from wcosbh01.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.125]) by wcosvs02.cos.agilent.com with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 12:12:42 -0700 Received: from wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.80]) by wcosbh01.cos.agilent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:12:41 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:12:41 -0700 Message-ID: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B0781DCF3@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Fit of a victorian bodice Thread-Index: AcY+KP2QJq902t2/SL6AZht5QZQ5KAAApnOg From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2006 19:12:41.0962 (UTC) FILETIME=[477024A0:01C63E2D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k22JCrRl072577 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:13:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440743E3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the Truly Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the fit around the armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about 1/2" above the bottom of the armhole (right at the top of my corset) it extends about 3" into the bust, and about the same length across the back. I'm not sure how to get rid of it -- the rest of the bodice fits beautifully... I also had this problem on my princess-line tea gown using their pattern... But I thought it was due to the weight of the fabric, but that can't be the case for my current bodice... Does anyone have any suggestions for how to handle this fitting problem? Should I make the armhole bigger (and if so, should it be lower side front, lower side back, or the bottom? I'm afraid if I widen the armhole it'll just pull the armhole out of shape due to the pull...) should I let the side seam out a little bit? I thought about putting padding inside the bodice ther! e, but there is very little room... And the bodice is satin so it shows every little crinkle or dent - unfortunately you can even follow the line of the lace on the chemise if you look closely. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you, -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 14:20:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JKJIY025090 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:20:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JKIBE029335; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:20:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22JJNX2092930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:19:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22JJKKg080254; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:19:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22JJHkN080183 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:19:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id k1so516866nzf for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:19:16 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=YxmqNmQVdPy9Ocjvssd+q+IFZMGKYa5hGzX2bGY6RYhcjL9w3OkqHkUmZ2qY7oT/toYXCoCprII+w0N1CDjF94h/UtPBWsYYSiJGmZqmzukAye6rfqmMkrgK/UntfkPFV0LEx+rNawF+AN+ZjdSsF8Qw7tMak/ca8pKjh9hB5qE= Received: by 10.64.96.20 with SMTP id t20mr125607qbb; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:19:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:19:16 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k22JJHkN080183 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:20:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44074572.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her house. I've >found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old and interesting, a lot of >which have food stains on. I've washed them with Vanish (if you don't have that in >the US, it's a new oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I >don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? Kate I collect, some whom I live with, would say "amass" vintage linens, quilts & unmentionables. Mostly I use baby soap, or whatever you wash your favorite sweaters in. If really done in, a gentle bleaching detergent. Air dry. Repeat until happy. When you finally get it clean enough, hot press those beautiful crisp folds & store them away. I would start with the gentlest treatment first on the most "replaceable" or hopeless item. See what happens. Work your way up to gentle, warm water & the oxy cleaner. You will probably never get the "foxing" out (those rust colored stains). Foxing can be caused by contact with acidic stuff (like wood, common paper and food debris) among other things. No sure how old "quite old" is but if really, really old, then you might want to stop at the cold, clear water rinse or cold water gentlest soap so that colors dont run. Truly magnificent items should be taken to a professional. My spare mom gave me two heavily embroidered unused gigantic table cloths, buffet cloth & each with 12 napkins each all with the original gift card as given to her mother. She said, "My mother stored this for 40 years. I have stored it for 40 years. Now it's your turn." I havent dared use it, but if I do, it's to serve white wine, dry foods with brush-away crumbs, no grease and it goes to the pros afterwards. To prevent or postpone future foxing, line your linen storage in buffered papers. I just use an old cotton sheet as the bottom layer in my cedar closet. Some items are truly hopelessly stained, moth eaten or torn and I'm not above recycling them into something else like a supportasse collar or petticoat. I have one of each made from a previous pillow case & table linen respectively. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 14:37:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JbfXV025592 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:37:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JbfdM004432; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:37:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Jb7r6096846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:37:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Jb3bh000845; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:37:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Jb01I000788 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:37:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.25]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FEtbf-0000Q4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:36:59 -0500 Message-ID: <28978545.1141328219623.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:36:59 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:37:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44074985.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I just ran down to the basement to copy the label for this product-- I've had good luck with it but have used it on only two pieces, so I can't say I've done exhaustive testing! It's called RESTORATION, and it claims "Revives color and freshness to antique linens...removes most stains." Manufactured by Engleside Products of Lancaster, PA. "No acids, chlorine, or phosphates. Safe for all fabrics and colors. Environmentally safe." I followed the directions on the label and was pleased with the results. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- >From: Cin >Sent: Mar 2, 2006 2:19 PM >To: h-cost >Subject: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen > >>My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her >house. I've >found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old >and interesting, a lot of >which have food stains on. I've washed them >with Vanish (if you don't have that in >the US, it's a new >oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I >>don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? > >Kate >I collect, some whom I live with, would say "amass" vintage linens, >quilts & unmentionables. Mostly I use baby soap, or whatever you wash >your favorite sweaters in. If really done in, a gentle bleaching >detergent. Air dry. Repeat until happy. When you finally get it clean >enough, hot press those beautiful crisp folds & store them away. > >I would start with the gentlest treatment first on the most >"replaceable" or hopeless item. See what happens. Work your way up >to gentle, warm water & the oxy cleaner. You will probably never get >the "foxing" out (those rust colored stains). Foxing can be caused by >contact with acidic stuff (like wood, common paper and food debris) >among other things. > >No sure how old "quite old" is but if really, really old, then you >might want to stop at the cold, clear water rinse or cold water >gentlest soap so that colors dont run. > >Truly magnificent items should be taken to a professional. My spare >mom gave me two heavily embroidered unused gigantic table cloths, >buffet cloth & each with 12 napkins each all with the original gift >card as given to her mother. She said, "My mother stored this for 40 >years. I have stored it for 40 years. Now it's your turn." I havent >dared use it, but if I do, it's to serve white wine, dry foods with >brush-away crumbs, no grease and it goes to the pros afterwards. > > >To prevent or postpone future foxing, line your linen storage in >buffered papers. I just use an old cotton sheet as the bottom layer >in my cedar closet. > >Some items are truly hopelessly stained, moth eaten or torn and I'm >not above recycling them into something else like a supportasse collar >or petticoat. I have one of each made from a previous pillow case & >table linen respectively. > >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >CinBarnes@gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 14:44:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JiMQC025786 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:44:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JiOar007541; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:44:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22JhxAN098133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:44:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Jhu6d008545; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:43:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Jhk0B008310 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:43:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.21b.90a2487 (58677) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:43:34 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:43:34 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:44:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44074B18.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/2/2006 2:26:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cinbarnes@gmail.com writes: I havent dared use it, but if I do, it's to serve white wine, dry foods with brush-away crumbs, no grease and it goes to the pros afterwards. I would stick to sparkling water--even white wine can stain! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 15:27:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22KRN2j027131 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:27:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22KROwZ028388; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:27:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22KR3C4007202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:27:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22KQvMJ056627; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:26:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k22KQrLU056456 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:26:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: (qmail 17008 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2006 20:26:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (glenn.mcgregor@sbcglobal.net@71.142.63.174 with plain) by smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2006 20:26:44 -0000 Message-ID: <44075504.7020104@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 12:26:44 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 15:27:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407552C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Cin wrote: > To prevent or postpone future foxing, line your linen storage in > buffered papers. I just use an old cotton sheet as the bottom layer > in my cedar closet. I have two "hopeless" linen table cloths that I use to wrap the "non-hopless" ones in while storing them. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 15:47:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Kl2Ip027725 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:47:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Kl3sr005922; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:47:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Kk734010420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:46:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Kk2S7076638; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:46:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Kjwf7076577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:46:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:16661 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FEugV-00080m-7s for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:46:05 -0600 Message-ID: <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:45:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 15:47:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440759C7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early 16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I really have no idea where to start with the research. (The best website I've found so far for the type of goldwork I'm interested in is this, even though she does the modern stuff: http://www.berlinembroidery.com/bullions.htm http://www.berlinembroidery.com/goldwork.htm ) Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with technique? I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do have experience with that angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't translate. And it's not the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of time experimenting blind, because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is so expensive per yard. And is this what was called Or Nue'? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 18:03:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22N3sN8030325 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:03:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22N3sBB004940; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:03:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22N2vkX047115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:02:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22N2eGL024367; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:02:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Jeaoi004888 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:40:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.e2.25ff07fc (58677) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:40:23 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:40:22 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:03:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440779DA.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sometimes the discoloration is actually a chemical change of the fibers, so nothing will change it. But, by all means, try sun bleaching. If all else fails, can you cut around the stained parts to make things--women's undergarments, for example. Ann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 18:05:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22N5LsY030358 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:05:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22N5KYo024087; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:05:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22N4UVi047322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:04:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22N4S6Q026400; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:04:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22K5mYw032738 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:05:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.155] (pm5-155.eos.net [205.133.149.155]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k22K5UcN002037 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:05:39 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 15:53:35 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603012347.k21Nl1WU061157@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: body shaping (was corset myth) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:05:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44077A30.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Elena House wrote: > The whole garment is a solution to a specific body-shaping problem; a > problem which has been solved in different ways over the centuries, and > which must be solved in different ways the desired body shape changes over > time. In the 13thC, the solution was breast-wrapping; in the 14th, it was > the GFD; in the 15th, it was both a later version of the GFD and an early > version of the bodice-skirt kirtle; in the early 16th, it was the vasquine > and farthingale; in the late 16th, it was the payre of bodyes and > farthingale. Both your replies to the original query were fascinating! I loved all the quotes. But now I am interested in a different item listed above. When you say that in the 13th century the solution to desired body shaping was breast wrapping, what exactly do you mean? I'm sure they did something, but I am not familiar with this. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 18:06:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22N6SIR030379 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:06:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22N6SeL006085; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:06:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22N5DnZ047515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:05:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22N5CpT027291; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:05:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail-10.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-10.bluehost.com [67.138.240.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k22Lt4kj051340 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:55:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from g.vinje@drakt.org) Received: (qmail 15263 invoked by uid 0); 2 Mar 2006 21:55:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box77.bluehost.com) (70.103.189.77) by mailproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2006 21:55:00 -0000 Received: from 193.84-48-130.nextgentel.com ([84.48.130.193] helo=acer) by box77.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FEvlD-0001hn-OX for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:55:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 22:54:46 +0100 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork References: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com> <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "G.Vinje" Organization: privat Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Win32, build 3865) X-Identified-User: {515:box77.bluehost.com:draktorg:drakt.org} {sentby:smtp 84.48.130.193 authed with g.vinje@drakt.org} X-PopBeforeSMTPSenders: g.vinje@drakt.org,hotpop@drakt.org X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box77.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [515 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - drakt.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:06:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44077A74.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:45:55 -0600, E House wrote: > Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic > stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with > technique? If you want one book that covers just about everything there is to cover except patterns; Metal thread embroidery by Jane Lemon Batsford (March 28, 2005) ISBN 071348926X It covers historical and modern stitches, thread, techniques,equipment,photoes of extant pieces including Elisabethan and more. I have bought others, but this is the one I keep returning to. And the only one I've found truly useful for historical goldwork anytime within my period of interest(1200-1670). Some websites worth looking at ; Or Nue http://medieval.webcon.net.au/technique_or_nue.html Or Nue (Shaded Gold) http://www.advancenet.net/jscole/ornue.html And a brief introduction to historical goldwork; All that glitters... http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/Goldwork.html Gunvor -- "Jeg har sagt ja og nei og DA får du lov" Anders (nesten 4 år) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 18:49:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Nn38G031799 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:49:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Nn40G021298; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:49:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22NmO1m056335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:48:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22NmLE9073928; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:48:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.192.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22NmH3G073745 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:48:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter79.comcast.net ([204.127.197.179]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20060302234811m14003dg5te>; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:48:11 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter79.comcast.net; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:48:10 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:48:10 +0000 Message-Id: <030220062348.22451.44078439000E6EE4000057B322007610649C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:49:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44078470.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The book I have is called "Goldwork" by Search Press. It has some history in it and shows how to do each of the techniques for goldwork. I've heard that the Jane Lemon book is the best though. Or nue' is the stitching of metal threads with a fine colored thread to make shaded or colored patterns. The gold threads cover the whole surface of the design and the spacing of the color stitching is varied to show more or less gold. Roscelin Well, I'm off to get packed to attend the Sewing Expo up in Puyallup, WA. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "E House" > I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I > work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, > stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the > sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early > 16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I > really have no idea where to start with the research. > > (The best website I've found so far for the type of goldwork I'm interested > in is this, even though she does the modern stuff: > http://www.berlinembroidery.com/bullions.htm > http://www.berlinembroidery.com/goldwork.htm ) > > Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic > stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with technique? > I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do have experience with that > angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't translate. And it's not > the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of time experimenting blind, > because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is so expensive per yard. > > Andr is this what was called Or Nue'? > > -E House > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 19:41:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k230fYcN001002 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:41:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k230fYJD007488; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:41:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k230UJG6064367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:30:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k230U2CZ015733; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:30:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k230TusG015638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:29:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:20249 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FEyBJ-0006sI-8c for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:30:06 -0600 Message-ID: <30ad01c63e59$99cf50f0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: body shaping (was corset myth) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:29:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:41:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440790BE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" > Both your replies to the original query were fascinating! I loved all the > quotes. But now I am interested in a different item listed above. When you > say that in the 13th century the solution to desired body shaping was > breast > wrapping, what exactly do you mean? I'm sure they did something, but I am > not familiar with this. That's a reference to a few mentions I've run across in books, or quotes from others who've read them. The one that sticks in my head best is from the 13th century, because it's the first mention I found--it's mentioned in "A History of Private Life, Vol II" (p363) and is from "La Cle' d'Amour" which is an anthology of 13thC works in the tradition of Ovid, containing advice on all sorts of things. I don't have an exact quote, but in this work, women whose breasts are too large are advised to bind them. Other references: Somewhen in the middle of the 12th century, an abbot, Gilbert of Hoyland, (created abbot 1150, died 1172) writes in "Sermones in Canticum Solomonis" that: "The breasts are most pleasing when they are of moderate size and eminence...They should be bound but not flattened, restrained with gentleness but not given too much license." This article: Waugh, Christina Frieder. "Well-Cut through the Body: Fitted Clothing in Twelfth-Century Europe", Dress (volume 26) 1999 (sorry, don't have any more info on it) discusses breastbinding in the 12thC, and contains another Gilbert of Hoyland quote: "I refer you to the devices of women, who cultivate and develop physical beauty and have mastered this art. For what are they more anxious to avoid in embellishing the bosom, than that the breasts be overgrown and shapeless and flabby?.....Therefore they constrain overgrown and flabby breasts with breast-bands, artfully remedying the shorcomings of nature." Line 13329 ff. from The Romance of the Rose, written about 1360, from the Charles Dahlberg translation [This is what my notes say, but this is from the second half, and I think that part was written at the end of the 13thC. Could this have been added in to a later version? or did my source just look at the wrong date?]: "If her breasts are too heavy she should take a scarf or towel to bind them against her chest and wrap it right around her ribs, securing it with needle and thread or by a knot; thus she can be active at her play." There's something about Eleanor of Aquitaine (12thC) and also an 8thC Lombardic reference, but I can't put my hands on them at the moment. Wish I could! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 19:53:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k230raIu001412 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:53:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k230rbeZ011987; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:53:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k230qSXk068498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:52:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k230qNln037909; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:52:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k230qIXN037758 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:52:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247f4.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.244]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DC113A50014 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:52:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c63e5c$bdf12a50$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:52:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:53:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44079391.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO 1st: Dont buy or borrow Kreinicks book about metal thread embroidery. Its just crap, a lot of cross stitch patterns using metallic threads. But a very useable good book, very small, but cheap is Needle Crafts 20 Goldwork. Its published by Search Press Limited, Tunbridge Wells, Kent - England. Also their larger book Goldwork Revised and expanded edition. I started my goldwork to outline ordinary embroideries, f.eks flowers and leaves with gold passing thread. Then i went on and used bullion threads (hollow wrapped goldthreads (worms)). Goldspangels is also fun to use. Silver is another thing. It tarnishes much two quicly, and today its almost impossible to clean by others than experts. A warning i want to advise everybody about is using bullion threads on clothing. The ends of this fine goldthread, catches everything, and unravell itselfs. I spoke to Mauritia Kirchner about this recently, and she has the same problems.Wasnt a problem for the kings and nobels, they just baught a new outfit, but for us deadly, it is such a shame and expensive.Not a warning not to use it, but just that you wont get surprised! Very adictive hobby! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 19:55:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k230ts6P001497 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:55:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k230ttjR013028; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:55:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k230sCL1068801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:54:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k230sBej039503; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:54:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k230rx5w039280 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:54:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247f4.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.244]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 434FCA5001A for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:53:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001a01c63e5c$f8a71290$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:54:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dangerous Liasions Fashion and Furniture Catalog X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:55:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407941B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I heard from 18th century womens list, that the catalog from the museum, is finally available............. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 20:41:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k231fBWx002741 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:41:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k231fCZ6028891; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:41:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k231etf3074945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:40:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k231ep0F079904; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:40:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k231emTQ079772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:40:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEzHk-0000gL-EE; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:40:48 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:40:48 -0500 Message-ID: <20060302204048.z9bgva42d78c0cko@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:40:48 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Or nue (was Re: [h-cost] Goldwork References: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com> <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:41:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44079EB8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting E House : > > > And is this what was called Or Nue'? > Or nue is some of the most awesome needlework ever produced by human hands. The cardinal is Or Nue http://www.berlinembroidery.com/cardinal.htm The gold threads are couched down with red silk. How close together the couching stitches are makes the design. Here's some pictures http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid4/austria/vienna/museums/schatzkammer/order_of_the_golden_fleece/liturgical_vestments/ http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page486.html http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page473.html There's a book on the painter Campin by Thurleman that has some of the most awesome enlargements for these garments. Campin is believed to have produced the cartoons for the vestments. Here's a figure that I scanned from this book http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Embroidery/OGF_campinPage166top.jpg http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Embroidery/OGF_campinPage166.jpg generally, the faces and hands are done in split stitch. Jerusha -- who will learn to do this or die! ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 20:48:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k231mhXe002956 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:48:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k231mix1031166; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:48:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k231mLJX076127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:48:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k231mKn3086236; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:48:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav15.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.87]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k231mGVP086146 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:48:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:48:16 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:48:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com> <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:48:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Mar 2006 01:48:16.0203 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A25E9B0:01C63E64] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:48:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407A07C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It looks like some of the gold work done on the Japanese fabrics I saw in school. The gold was wrapped around a silk thread but you had to have an eyepiece to see it that close. It was fantastic details in the antique fabrics. I don't remember the time period, but very old. I'd love to learn more about this technique as well. Thanks for the inspiration. ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] Goldwork >I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I >work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, >stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the >sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early >16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I >really have no idea where to start with the research. > > (The best website I've found so far for the type of goldwork I'm > interested in is this, even though she does the modern stuff: > http://www.berlinembroidery.com/bullions.htm > http://www.berlinembroidery.com/goldwork.htm ) > > Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic > stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with technique? > I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do have experience with > that angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't translate. And > it's not the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of time > experimenting blind, because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is > so expensive per yard. > > And is this what was called Or Nue'? > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 21:09:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2329Sk2003457 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:09:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2329TNJ005230; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:09:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2328hhF079922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:08:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2328dC4004291; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:08:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2328aSG004171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:08:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEzif-0003ND-9H; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:08:37 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 21:08:37 -0500 Message-ID: <20060302210837.7eh3balt9zoc448o@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 21:08:37 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork References: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com> <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 21:09:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407A559.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting E House : > I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now > that I work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to > add on a nice, stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! > Specifically, the sort that would be used for embellishing garments > and headwear in the early 16th century. But being me, I have to be > as authentic as I can... and I really have no idea where to start > with the research. I didn't realize that I hadn't addressed the first part of your email. Or nue wasn't something that you'd normally see on garb. Alot of what you would see in the 16th century was blackwork, maybe smocking on chemise necklines, etc. Paintings are going to be your friend here to help you see what kind of stuff was done in the specific locale and time period that you're wanting. You see metal thread on some Elizabethan Coifs. If you're doing Tudor English, look at paintings of Henry and his wives for early 16th century for your best tips. Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 22:15:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k233F3wD005175 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 22:15:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k233F3UY026868; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 22:15:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k233EUXf088612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:14:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k233EQiR058307; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:14:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k233EKs8058123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:14:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k234vbpa032478 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:57:38 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly O-T greetings of the (passing) season Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 22:18:49 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20466941.1141324345872.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <20466941.1141324345872.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603022218.49890.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 22:15:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407B4B7.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Thursday 02 March 2006 1:32 pm, ruthanneb@mindspring.com wrote: [snip] > Who would expect in a modest little neighborhood in Fairfield Connecticut > to drive around the corner and find a pair of snowpersons one of whom was > wearing a HENNIN? I assume a little girl wanted to give her Hallowe'en > costume one more day to shine....Anyway, with the homeowner's permission I > took a photo of Snow Maiden and Swain. That is precious! Thank you! -- Cathy Raymond "Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."--Richard Feynman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 23:03:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2343sNL006938 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:03:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2343t58009526; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:03:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23430t3096231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:03:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2342vCs099014; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:02:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52815.mail.yahoo.com (web52815.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2342tbW098938 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:02:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 4662 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Mar 2006 04:02:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=spBZL7JYCLD6Ptw+uFr1WYt7AiESz5SPePuCHXOMxLrAV/Rb3v56uvfsKhTPRrJwrDDsi0BIDicDIxj3GUzT7mU36ZmsHwaRJW+r0uvNRiqh2PZFiEAIT2Wf9XWIl08D9pSYDRIb6mO7yUabLmquvpX4g8iLeBs9rOD8DcxUa/s= ; Message-ID: <20060303040250.4660.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52815.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:02:50 PST Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:02:50 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20060302000346.76w8mzif3ogkcgkk@www.goldsword.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:03:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407C02B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part of an ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young woman, but also (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager variety. I can't imagine such a thing being worn w/ a formal ballgown, and (although I don't claim to be a scholar by any means!) it seems especially incongruous w/ a high-waisted Regency dress in a light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where I saw the original reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet cap -- have you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? Thanks for the image search! I'll have to explore using that more! KP "Susan B. Farmer" wrote: Quoting Kathryn Parke : > Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) > google image search is your friend http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=phrygian+hat&btnG=Search Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 01:59:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k236xfhT011699 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:59:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k236xg5U026572; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:59:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k236wj9b022212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:58:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k236wdKq035171; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:58:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k236wZgi035136 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:58:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8995136179 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 00:58:34 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 00:58:54 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20060303040250.4660.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:59:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407E95E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The phrygian hat is also called "the Liberty hat" and is worn by the French "Lady Liberty", Marianne. It was about the time of the French revolution that it became popular. http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/france_159/discovering-france_2005/france-f rom-to-z_1978/the-symbols-of-the-republic-and-bastille-day_2002/marianne_150 6.html http://www.allstates-flag.com/fotw/flags/xf-cap.html So it may have been fashionable for a woman to wear such a hat with a Regency gown. De -----Original Message----- Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part of an ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young woman, but also (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager variety. I can't imagine such a thing being worn w/ a formal ballgown, and (although I don't claim to be a scholar by any means!) it seems especially incongruous w/ a high-waisted Regency dress in a light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where I saw the original reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet cap -- have you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? Thanks for the image search! I'll have to explore using that more! KP _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 02:27:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k237R749016506 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:27:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k237R98W002022; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:27:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k237QURo025926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 00:26:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k237QQb0054820; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 00:26:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k237QNMf054791 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 00:26:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1FF4g936UV-0002Ez; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 02:26:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:26:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 02:27:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407EFCD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k237R749016506 Status: RO Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your hand fans are your new best friend? I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 04:11:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k239BHKY008192 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 04:11:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k239BJqv004479; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 04:11:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k239AkZo048275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:10:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k239Aewb043516; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:10:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52104.mail.yahoo.com (web52104.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.107]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k239AcAW043451 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:10:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 34167 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Mar 2006 09:10:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=zf8Jhma7WaQ8D5x95x/PgAZK6roaofecX8S8GOwEirmrWiDVEDDB5HA/fl3XfDAJovFkfFLfynLcQ2ydBebtvnjEQPBsLTbrcQQM+Ru73UVJX+xiSaCSkdNtK/IcuJYI4N86ms8IkwfaJK3BvdKbSiL8p/pfYw2p7SGkUpEocAE= ; Message-ID: <20060303091032.34165.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 04:10:32 EST Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 04:10:32 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603030141.k231fQGp080487@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 04:11:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44080837.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hiya, I recently wrote some SCA competition documentation on goldwork, that if my computer hadn't been blown up recently, I'd offer to send to you. I'll also be teaching a very-beginner class in goldwork April 1 at Forward into the Past, Cambridge, Ontario. Ironically, my plea to find the original source for that sweete bag was for the documentation of this class. I'll list my doc sources since I have a hard copy floating about. Please excuse any spelling errors, I am developing a cold and thus can't sleep, so no accounting for the condition of my coherency. > I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my > sewing (HAH!) I feel your pain all too well. :-) Specifically, the > sort that would be used for embellishing garments > and headwear in the early > 16th century. I've not actually found it on *extant* headwear, per se. To qualify, I am speaking *only* of purl/bullion goldwork, not or nue or anglicanum. I have little doubt that they used it on pillbox type hats , possibly coifs and partlets. Paintings show what looks like its' use to me, but so little of the stuff exists now because of recycling, I have no hard fast evidence. I've seen it on the girdler's coronet, but that is 17th c. and at that, a repro of the original. I was actually mentally running a list of extant things I have seen it on dated roughly to the 16th c (not being culturally specific): garments - sleeves, foreparts, underwear, wedding robes, Order robe appliques accessories - gloves, sweete bags, shoes, reliquary pouches other - book covers, ecclesiastic garments, various decor items, seal purses, needle cases... I could likely be a little more accurate if my drive were running, this is off the top of my head. Please feel free to add to this list, I actually want to throw a list at my students so they have a general idea where they can apply this highly-addictive hobby. :-) > http://www.berlinembroidery.com Tanya is one of my main suppliers aside from the very reasonably priced lady at Pennsic. Tammy Barnes, I think her name is? I picked up loads of smooth purl from her at a great price. IF you want to go hard core and do the REAL thing, Lorina Stephens of Five Rivers Champanry will happily lighten your load in exchange for stuff no human hands deserve to touch. *grin* > Does anyone know of any good resources for learning > about the authentic > stuff? Authentic is relative. Having recently seen the back of extant goldwork, even my partner said "jeez, what a mess!" But mine always seems surprisingly tidy by comparison. I can't seem to make mine messy enough on the back to look truly authentic. o.O But from the front.. it's pretty good. Any suggestions for modern books that might > help me with technique? This list is from my doc: Saunders, Sally "Royal School of Needlework Embroidery Techniques" BT Batsford, 1998 Campbell-Harding, Lemon, Jane, Pyman, Kit "Goldwork:Revised and Expanded Edition" Search Press, 1998 Synge, Lanto "Art of Embroidery:History of Style and Technique" The Royal School of Needlework. Woodbridge, England; (Wappingers Falls, NY): Antique Collectors Club, 2001. Staniland, Kay "Embroiderers". Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1991. Franklin, Tracy A., "New Ideas in Goldwork" BT Batsford, 2002. Schuette, Maris, Muller-Christensen, Sigrid, "A Pictorial History of Embroidery" Fredrik A. Praeger, New York, 1964. I have recently added this one to my collection: Lomny, Antonia, "The Art and Craft of Goldwork" Simon and Schuster, 2004. This one is great for small projects to familiarise yourself with techniques. It is Australian, and thus the technique is slightly different from most traditional techniques; they use Sadi bullion which is of Indian origin. They also use passing thread to couch with, which drives me nuts. Personally I use the YLI silk heirloom threads. There is an or nue project in there I want to try to get a grip on how it's done. The Royal School book also has great practise projects in it covering all traditional gold work techniques. My current project (which I would have had pictures of if my camera hadn't burped on me - just not my week for technology!) erroneously has one flower done with Sadi bullion, the rest with traditional. It doesn't show up until the light hits at the right angle, then you can't miss the difference. Ultimately I don't think it matters, just so long as you use all the same material from the same origin. > I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do > have experience with that > angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't > translate. Actually, it does. Once I got over the hump of thinking same-but-different, I taught myself very quickly. And it's not > the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of > time experimenting blind, > because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is > so expensive per yard. Let me check my card for my Pennsic contact. It'll make the costs a little easier to swallow. Right now, costume storage is jammed into the sewing room as I slowly redecorate the spare room for my daughter thus can't get to the cupboard that holds all my supplies (gasp!). Alternatively, scan the used clothing stores for Indian clothes and reclaim the materials from their stuff. Basically I just bought myself a goldwork project kit and ran with it. > And is this what was called Or Nue'? They fall into the same category because they use gold thread. "Gold" or in more broader terms, "Metal" embroidery is a fairly broad category. I haven't braved myself to Or Nue' or opus anglicanum yet. Either of these look like they take couching to a whole new tedious level. Hope that helps. Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 07:12:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23CCFAe012336 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:12:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23CCEh7001064; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:12:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23CB610069351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:11:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23CB0rp079713; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:11:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav14.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.86]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23CAuLb079649 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:10:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 04:10:56 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:10:55 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060303091032.34165.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:10:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Mar 2006 12:10:56.0350 (UTC) FILETIME=[8687EFE0:01C63EBB] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 07:12:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408329E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I had a computer crash last year. Since then I save everything to disk... within a few days of putting it on my computer. It's a hard lesson but that's one of the hassles of new technology. It's harder to fix than to get. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 4:10 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork > Hiya, > > I recently wrote some SCA competition documentation on > goldwork, that if my computer hadn't been blown up > recently, I'd offer to send to you. I'll also be > teaching a very-beginner class in goldwork April 1 at > Forward into the Past, Cambridge, Ontario. Ironically, > my plea to find the original source for that sweete > bag was for the documentation of this class. I'll list > my doc sources since I have a hard copy floating > about. Please excuse any spelling errors, I am > developing a cold and thus can't sleep, so no > accounting for the condition of my coherency. > >> I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my >> sewing (HAH!) > > I feel your pain all too well. :-) > > Specifically, the >> sort that would be used for embellishing garments >> and headwear in the early >> 16th century. > > I've not actually found it on *extant* headwear, per > se. To qualify, I am speaking *only* of purl/bullion > goldwork, not or nue or anglicanum. I have little > doubt that they used it on pillbox type hats , > possibly coifs and partlets. Paintings show what looks > like its' use to me, but so little of the stuff exists > now because of recycling, I have no hard fast > evidence. I've seen it on the girdler's coronet, but > that is 17th c. and at that, a repro of the original. > I was actually mentally running a list of extant > things I have seen it on dated roughly to the 16th c > (not being culturally specific): > garments - sleeves, foreparts, underwear, wedding > robes, Order robe appliques > accessories - gloves, sweete bags, shoes, reliquary > pouches > other - book covers, ecclesiastic garments, various > decor items, seal purses, needle cases... > I could likely be a little more accurate if my drive > were running, this is off the top of my head. Please > feel free to add to this list, I actually want to > throw a list at my students so they have a general > idea where they can apply this highly-addictive hobby. > :-) > >> http://www.berlinembroidery.com > > Tanya is one of my main suppliers aside from the very > reasonably priced lady at Pennsic. Tammy Barnes, I > think her name is? I picked up loads of smooth purl > from her at a great price. IF you want to go hard core > and do the REAL thing, Lorina Stephens of Five Rivers > Champanry will happily lighten your load in exchange > for stuff no human hands deserve to touch. *grin* > >> Does anyone know of any good resources for learning >> about the authentic >> stuff? > > Authentic is relative. Having recently seen the back > of extant goldwork, even my partner said "jeez, what a > mess!" But mine always seems surprisingly tidy by > comparison. I can't seem to make mine messy enough on > the back to look truly authentic. o.O But from the > front.. it's pretty good. > > Any suggestions for modern books that might >> help me with technique? > > This list is from my doc: > Saunders, Sally "Royal School of Needlework Embroidery > Techniques" BT Batsford, 1998 > Campbell-Harding, Lemon, Jane, Pyman, Kit > "Goldwork:Revised and Expanded Edition" Search Press, > 1998 > Synge, Lanto "Art of Embroidery:History of Style and > Technique" The Royal School of Needlework. Woodbridge, > England; (Wappingers Falls, NY): Antique Collectors > Club, 2001. > Staniland, Kay "Embroiderers". Toronto: University of > Toronto Press, 1991. > Franklin, Tracy A., "New Ideas in Goldwork" BT > Batsford, 2002. > Schuette, Maris, Muller-Christensen, Sigrid, "A > Pictorial History of Embroidery" Fredrik A. Praeger, > New York, 1964. > > I have recently added this one to my collection: > Lomny, Antonia, "The Art and Craft of Goldwork" Simon > and Schuster, 2004. > This one is great for small projects to familiarise > yourself with techniques. It is Australian, and thus > the technique is slightly different from most > traditional techniques; they use Sadi bullion which is > of Indian origin. They also use passing thread to > couch with, which drives me nuts. Personally I use the > YLI silk heirloom threads. There is an or nue project > in there I want to try to get a grip on how it's done. > The Royal School book also has great practise projects > in it covering all traditional gold work techniques. > My current project (which I would have had pictures of > if my camera hadn't burped on me - just not my week > for technology!) erroneously has one flower done with > Sadi bullion, the rest with traditional. It doesn't > show up until the light hits at the right angle, then > you can't miss the difference. Ultimately I don't > think it matters, just so long as you use all the same > material from the same origin. > >> I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do >> have experience with that >> angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't >> translate. > > Actually, it does. Once I got over the hump of > thinking same-but-different, I taught myself very > quickly. > > And it's not >> the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of >> time experimenting blind, >> because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is >> so expensive per yard. > Let me check my card for my Pennsic contact. It'll > make the costs a little easier to swallow. Right now, > costume storage is jammed into the sewing room as I > slowly redecorate the spare room for my daughter thus > can't get to the cupboard that holds all my supplies > (gasp!). Alternatively, scan the used clothing stores > for Indian clothes and reclaim the materials from > their stuff. Basically I just bought myself a goldwork > project kit and ran with it. > >> And is this what was called Or Nue'? > > They fall into the same category because they use gold > thread. "Gold" or in more broader terms, "Metal" > embroidery is a fairly broad category. I haven't > braved myself to Or Nue' or opus anglicanum yet. > Either of these look like they take couching to a > whole new tedious level. > > Hope that helps. > > Kathy > > Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a > rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert > > It's never too late to be who you might have been. > -George Eliot > For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth > there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart > somewhere to receive it. > -Ivan Panin > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 08:48:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Dm17h026498 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:48:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Dm2ni002919; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:48:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23DkeuC078396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:46:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Dkc0i046330; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:46:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23DkXn7046231 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A8B30244; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:46:27 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.152 ([209.131.80.152] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 3 Mar 2006 08:46:23 -0500 Message-ID: <00b401c63ec9$2c2c7ee0$985083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B0781DCF3@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:48:36 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:48:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44084912.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My experience, based on antique bodices in my collection, features this fitting mode only on the lining or under bodice. This point of fitting is then 'upholsterd by the outer fabric that is draped and tweaked in such a manner that the adjustment is not obvious. A dressform is definitely a plus for one of these constructions. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice > Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the Truly Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the fit around the armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about 1/2" above the bottom of the armhole (right at the top of my corset) it extends about 3" into the bust, and about the same length across the back. I'm not sure how to get rid of it -- the rest of the bodice fits beautifully... I also had this problem on my princess-line tea gown using their pattern... But I thought it was due to the weight of the fabric, but that can't be the case for my current bodice... Does anyone have any suggestions for how to handle this fitting problem? Should I make the armhole bigger (and if so, should it be lower side front, lower side back, or the bottom? I'm afraid if I widen the armhole it'll just pull the armhole out of shape due to the pull...) should I let the side seam out a little bit? I thought about putting padding inside the bodice ther! > e, but there is very little room... And the bodice is satin so it shows every little crinkle or dent - unfortunately you can even follow the line of the lace on the chemise if you look closely. > > Does anyone have any suggestions? > Thank you, > -sunny > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 08:55:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Dtd7s026694 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:55:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Dtf6M005798; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:55:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Dt9mE079527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:55:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Dt7G7052360; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:55:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net ([63.240.77.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23DsYZb051577 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:55:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from celtkin@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-69-246-135-166.hsd1.tn.comcast.net[69.246.135.166]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060303135353013001o860e>; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:53:53 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.1.051004 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:53:53 -0500 From: celtkin To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Goldwork Thread-Index: AcY+yegZJorgXKq9EdqFdgANkz5D6g== In-Reply-To: <200603030910.k239AtkF043717@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:55:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44084ADD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO For 16th c. goldwork, I recall finding information on supplies and such by Googling "Purl" -- It seems to be referred to that way in some of the textile books, and you can still get the gold threads in different shapes and textures. As for Or Nue, it was primarily for ecclesiastical use -- gold threads were couched down and silk colors stitched over them in different densities to create beautiful "paintings" full of light and shadow -- very sumptuous! (but not really used in garb unless you want to wear a Cope ;) The most inspiring examples of Or Nue (to me) are the Golden Fleece Vestments. I'd be interested as well if anyone has further input on goldwork/purlwork. I have been dying to do a particular costume that has a goldwork breastpiece -- just haven't finished figuring out how to go about it (and I've only embroidered one thing in my life... May as well aim high! ;) Kat >> I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I >> work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, >> stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the >> sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early >> 16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I >> really have no idea where to start with the research. >> [snip] >> And is this what was called Or Nue'? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 10:01:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23F1RYc028570 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:01:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23F1Sm0002104; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:01:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23F0mIU088453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:00:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23F0e2G007268; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:00:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from myway.com (nn2.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.56]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23F0Zvb007137 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:00:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 6AE0E75730; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:00:34 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Received: from [207.161.59.82] by mprdmailfe8.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:00:34 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 1cf8c8c2ca72c664374022311c208dce From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060303150034.6AE0E75730@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:00:34 -0500 (EST) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:01:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44085A48.009 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I remember my grandmother collected fans, 30 years ago. Her favorite was this beautiful pierced sandlewood fan that she would grab and fan herself -at the time I just thought she really liked fans. Wendy --- On Fri 03/03, Penny Ladnier < penny@costumegallery.com > wrote: From: Penny Ladnier [mailto: penny@costumegallery.com] To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:26:22 -0500 Subject: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your hand fans are your new best friend?

I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change!

Penny E. Ladnier
Owner,
The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com
Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com
Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 10:04:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23F43LW028647 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:04:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23F44ga003228; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:04:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23F3FVQ088998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:03:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23F3FN0009496; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:03:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23F395P009422 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:03:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m95.in-tch.com [216.166.191.95]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k23EsQA05565 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:54:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <003a01c63ed4$971718e0$5fbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:10:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:04:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44085AE4.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sorry, Penny. Been there, done that, and no hot flashes. --Sue, rather smugly ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans > Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your hand fans are your new best friend? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 10:38:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23FcOfC029441 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:38:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23FcQQn018845; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:38:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23FbSix003683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:37:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23FbDZs042774; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:37:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Fb9xu042609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:37:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FFCL4-0007BM-CR; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:37:06 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:37:06 -0500 Message-ID: <20060303103706.gdvqi63rer4s0s4w@www.goldsword.com> Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:37:06 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> In-Reply-To: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:38:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440862F2.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Penny Ladnier : > Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that > your hand fans are your new best friend? > > I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had > only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the > pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I > have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them > with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:30:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GUSZ8030772 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:30:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GUS76011220; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:30:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GTcA2023524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:29:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GS7gL093369; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:28:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k234N6mk015162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:23:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2366Oj5002058 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:06:24 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:27:36 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20060303040250.4660.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060303040250.4660.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603022327.36290.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:30:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44086F24.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Thursday 02 March 2006 11:02 pm, Kathryn Parke wrote: > Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part of an > ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young woman, but also > (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager variety. I can't imagine > such a thing being worn w/ a formal ballgown, and (although I don't claim > to be a scholar by any means!) it seems especially incongruous w/ a > high-waisted Regency dress in a light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where > I saw the original reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet > cap -- have you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? I don't remember seeing any Phrygian or Alexandrine caps, but there was a definite vogue for odd headgear during the Regency period--such as turbans. Here's a whole page of period illustrations of evening wear with turbans: http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/dress/turb.html Actually, that turned out to be three pages--here are special links to the other two: http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/dress/turb2.html http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/dress/turb3.html This woman is wearing just a pair of ostrich feathers in what appears to be short, curly hair: http://www.trocadero.com/thenowhouse/items/425212/en1.html -- Cathy Raymond "Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."--Richard Feynman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:32:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GWrab030810 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:32:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GWtSA012282; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:32:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GWZQo024112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:32:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GWWlc098160; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:32:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GWQKQ097949 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:32:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2c9.477b700 (15876) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:32:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID73-3e0444086f911e0; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:32:18 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060303103706.gdvqi63rer4s0s4w@www.goldsword.com> References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> <20060303103706.gdvqi63rer4s0s4w@www.goldsword.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:32:13 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:32:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44086FB7.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k23GWrab030810 Status: RO We are a large enough group to make a new Fashion Statement, that's for sure! Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 3, 2006, at 10:37 AM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > Quoting Penny Ladnier : > >> Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that >> your hand fans are your new best friend? >> >> I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had >> only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the >> pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I >> have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them >> with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! > > Susan > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:35:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GZmqC030892 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:35:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GZnXT013657; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:35:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GXmQA024406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:33:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GXeTL099519; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:33:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k236FOfw003939 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:15:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 85980 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2006 06:15:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.226 with login) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2006 06:15:23 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060303061103.01ddbdb0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 06:15:25 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap In-Reply-To: <20060303040250.4660.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060302000346.76w8mzif3ogkcgkk@www.goldsword.com> <20060303040250.4660.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:35:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44087065.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 04:02 03/03/2006, you wrote: >Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part >of an ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young >woman, but also (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager >variety. I can't imagine such a thing being worn w/ a formal >ballgown, and (although I don't claim to be a scholar by any means!) >it seems especially incongruous w/ a high-waisted Regency dress in a >light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where I saw the original >reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet cap -- have >you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? > > Thanks for the image search! I'll have to explore using that more! > > KP >google image search is your friend >http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=phrygian+hat&btnG=Search > >Susan During the French Revolution, the Phrygian cap became popular among the revolutionaries, as I recall. I seem to remember it was white with e a cockade. I suspect it was a cap after that style that your Regency lady would have worn. I would see if you can find a reference in Cunnington's "Englishwoman's Clothing in the 19th Century," where there are pages of hats, one for each year. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:38:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GcQc4030962 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:38:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GcRoD014922; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:38:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Gc75O025683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:38:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Gc0DI004609; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:38:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52103.mail.yahoo.com (web52103.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.106]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k239ApOH043617 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:10:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 62337 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Mar 2006 09:10:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=QceyyS8CCkjQIfSYfrsS0KBA3wCxxUAUtLuEkgDv5ATO+b47GrLHz+Q4bAsYLl6b3qLzEOz5WQ2YaqOZVnnivEtdK0Ov3YwEoF0HmZXSkpfYwmtvnQ5+jsHVv8ZwQzabOl6jpr5zwiOU4AzWfMfIZ4TM+C1wd46PkEIzfD47jj0= ; Message-ID: <20060303091006.62307.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 04:10:06 EST Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 04:10:06 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603030141.k231fQGp080487@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:38:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44087103.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hiya, I recently wrote some SCA competition documentation on goldwork, that if my computer hadn't been blown up recently, I'd offer to send to you. I'll also be teaching a very-beginner class in goldwork April 1 at Forward into the Past, Cambridge, Ontario. Ironically, my plea to find the original source for that sweete bag was for the documentation of this class. I'll list my doc sources since I have a hard copy floating about. Please excuse any spelling errors, I am developing a cold and thus can't sleep, so no accounting for the condition of my coherency. > I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my > sewing (HAH!) I feel your pain all too well. :-) Specifically, the > sort that would be used for embellishing garments > and headwear in the early > 16th century. I've not actually found it on *extant* headwear, per se. To qualify, I am speaking *only* of purl/bullion goldwork, not or nue or anglicanum. I have little doubt that they used it on pillbox type hats , possibly coifs and partlets. Paintings show what looks like its' use to me, but so little of the stuff exists now because of recycling, I have no hard fast evidence. I've seen it on the girdler's coronet, but that is 17th c. and at that, a repro of the original. I was actually mentally running a list of extant things I have seen it on dated roughly to the 16th c (not being culturally specific): garments - sleeves, foreparts, underwear, wedding robes, Order robe appliques accessories - gloves, sweete bags, shoes, reliquary pouches other - book covers, ecclesiastic garments, various decor items, seal purses, needle cases... I could likely be a little more accurate if my drive were running, this is off the top of my head. Please feel free to add to this list, I actually want to throw a list at my students so they have a general idea where they can apply this highly-addictive hobby. :-) > http://www.berlinembroidery.com Tanya is one of my main suppliers aside from the very reasonably priced lady at Pennsic. Tammy Barnes, I think her name is? I picked up loads of smooth purl from her at a great price. IF you want to go hard core and do the REAL thing, Lorina Stephens of Five Rivers Champanry will happily lighten your load in exchange for stuff no human hands deserve to touch. *grin* > Does anyone know of any good resources for learning > about the authentic > stuff? Authentic is relative. Having recently seen the back of extant goldwork, even my partner said "jeez, what a mess!" But mine always seems surprisingly tidy by comparison. I can't seem to make mine messy enough on the back to look truly authentic. o.O But from the front.. it's pretty good. Any suggestions for modern books that might > help me with technique? This list is from my doc: Saunders, Sally "Royal School of Needlework Embroidery Techniques" BT Batsford, 1998 Campbell-Harding, Lemon, Jane, Pyman, Kit "Goldwork:Revised and Expanded Edition" Search Press, 1998 Synge, Lanto "Art of Embroidery:History of Style and Technique" The Royal School of Needlework. Woodbridge, England; (Wappingers Falls, NY): Antique Collectors Club, 2001. Staniland, Kay "Embroiderers". Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1991. Franklin, Tracy A., "New Ideas in Goldwork" BT Batsford, 2002. Schuette, Maris, Muller-Christensen, Sigrid, "A Pictorial History of Embroidery" Fredrik A. Praeger, New York, 1964. I have recently added this one to my collection: Lomny, Antonia, "The Art and Craft of Goldwork" Simon and Schuster, 2004. This one is great for small projects to familiarise yourself with techniques. It is Australian, and thus the technique is slightly different from most traditional techniques; they use Sadi bullion which is of Indian origin. They also use passing thread to couch with, which drives me nuts. Personally I use the YLI silk heirloom threads. There is an or nue project in there I want to try to get a grip on how it's done. The Royal School book also has great practise projects in it covering all traditional gold work techniques. My current project (which I would have had pictures of if my camera hadn't burped on me - just not my week for technology!) erroneously has one flower done with Sadi bullion, the rest with traditional. It doesn't show up until the light hits at the right angle, then you can't miss the difference. Ultimately I don't think it matters, just so long as you use all the same material from the same origin. > I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do > have experience with that > angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't > translate. Actually, it does. Once I got over the hump of thinking same-but-different, I taught myself very quickly. And it's not > the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of > time experimenting blind, > because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is > so expensive per yard. Let me check my card for my Pennsic contact. It'll make the costs a little easier to swallow. Right now, costume storage is jammed into the sewing room as I slowly redecorate the spare room for my daughter thus can't get to the cupboard that holds all my supplies (gasp!). Alternatively, scan the used clothing stores for Indian clothes and reclaim the materials from their stuff. Basically I just bought myself a goldwork project kit and ran with it. > And is this what was called Or Nue'? They fall into the same category because they use gold thread. "Gold" or in more broader terms, "Metal" embroidery is a fairly broad category. I haven't braved myself to Or Nue' or opus anglicanum yet. Either of these look like they take couching to a whole new tedious level. Hope that helps. Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:39:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GdTMq030997 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:39:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GdULv010973; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:39:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GcpgE025851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:38:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Gco2X005697; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:38:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.clifford.wightman.ca [216.110.227.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23AaENk009984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 03:36:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id 83795D43A9; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:36:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from MAIN (unknown [216.110.230.30]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7850DD4001 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:36:04 -0500 (EST) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:35:41 -0500 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000001c63eae$4b797340$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 In-Reply-To: <200603030910.k239AtkF043717@net.indra.com> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on server01.clifford X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-2.82, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.0.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k23AaENk009984 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:39:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44087143.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Ah, my passion and my addiction. For reasonably priced gold indeed do look at Berlin. We, as someone else mentioned, carry rather rarefied gold, manufactured by a peerless drizzler in Spain. These threads are exactly what you would find in the superior historical works. I'm always encouraging people to put together a group order so they can share the equally rarefied cost of these threads. They are gorgeous. And once you've worked with them you'll never want to work with any other. As Bjarne mentioned, gold wire threads such as purls, facconne, crinkles, jaceron, etc., will catch and ravel, so it is important when couching them to be sure you have clipped the metal ends carefully and if it all possible turned the end inward to prevent catching, as well as ensure the cut end have rolled down to where you've couched. To be truthful, I find these types of gold threads easiest to work with. It is the passing thread which tests skill and patience. I've found if you fail to pass the thread through the cloth at 90 degrees, between the warp and weft, and pull very slowly, keeping light tension on either side of the cloth, that you're going to tear the delicate foil from the core and have a mess, little say a waste, on your hands. I have been working with gold for about eight years now and still find passing thread a challenge. Some of my favourite goldwork (and embroidery) I've undertaken is on our website under Fine Art, the Celtic series of embroideries I designed and embroidered. Or nue: another of my passions. Lordy, I really learned a lot about it when I worked up a cloak of state for my SCA barony. Images of it are on our website under Fine Art, scroll to the bottom of the page and click on the more details link. As someone else mentioned, or nue was not used on garments; it was used copiously (oh, a pun!) on ecclesiastical paraments and vestments. At the moment (it's a long moment) I'm working on a dress garment for myself, a frock coat based on a man's early 18th century frock coat, much modified, with embroidered cuffs and neckline. The design of the embroidery is not my own, although interpreted differently, taken from the wedding garments of the Dauphin in 1747. You can find the design in the St. Aubin book. I've chosen to work the design in a series of rich rusts and yellows, with purl in the berry areas. The ground is a gorgeous ivory wool/silk twill. The whole thing will eventually be lined with a silk charmeuse. I think I'll end up hand-stitching the garment to be sure I don't ruin any of the embroidery in the sewing machine. When done, I'll have a lovely dress jacket to wear for those rare occasions we step out. Although I no longer have workshops posted on the website, I still do teach. Workshops run $400.00 CDN per person for two days, includes all materials (and I mean all), accommodations and meals. We work on the opus anglicanum alms purse kit listed on our website, and as always, there's always lots of extra tidbits thrown in. Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:42:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Gg3rm031057 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Gg5Bb016834; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GfUda026841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:41:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GfShR008626; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:41:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Detnf042426 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A75B01DC; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:40:43 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.152 ([209.131.80.152] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 3 Mar 2006 08:40:29 -0500 Message-ID: <00a801c63ec8$591d1fa0$985083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <44072202.304@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:42:39 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:42:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440871DD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My anti-stain shelf includes a bottle of Aunt Ellen's (both for whites and colors, found at JoAnn's) and Oxiclean paste, as well as a "tree product". Aunt Ellen's does have a bleaching element but it took 30 yr. stains out of my favorite teacozy without showing any damage to the linen fibers. A recent rescue mission for my daughter's white damask tablecloth was somewhat successful with a liberal application of Oxiclean. My favorite brightner right now is the non-chlorine product of a company called Mellauca. This is what I am using on my antique laces and other delicates, including silk. It does a great job on the obvious 'age' tints without removing the true antique colors. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen > Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her house. I've found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old and interesting, a lot of which have food stains on. I've washed them with Vanish (if you don't have that in the US, it's a new oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? > > > > Hydrogen peroxide is pretty mild, but if the oxy-stuff didn't work you > may not have luck with this either. > > Tried sun-bleaching it? > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:42:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GgYRN031066 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Gga2j011924; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GbBgw025236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:37:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Gb6Kv003591; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:37:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k238imgm022623 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:44:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 72989 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2006 08:44:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.226 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2006 08:44:47 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060303084227.01dd9a68@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:44:52 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans In-Reply-To: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:42:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440871FC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 07:26 03/03/2006, you wrote: >Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that >your hand fans are your new best friend? > >I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had >only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the >pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I >have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them >with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! You and me both Penny! I carry a little Chinese folding fan in my very small purse/handbag all the time. I pay 50p for them and buy them by the dozen, as they break, but I'd rather use them than my "good" collection of fans, which I had a habit of losing. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:44:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GiOb2031123 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:44:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GiQR3017931; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:44:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GhmDh027713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:43:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GhjKl011346; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:43:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23FkOBT052058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:46:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FFCTz-00084a-HN; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:46:19 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:46:19 -0500 Message-ID: <20060303104619.s1efqquvqdf4s88c@www.goldsword.com> Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:46:19 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:44:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408726A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting celtkin : > For 16th c. goldwork, I recall finding information on supplies and such by > Googling "Purl" -- It seems to be referred to that way in some of the > textile books, and you can still get the gold threads in different shapes > and textures. > > As for Or Nue, it was primarily for ecclesiastical use -- gold threads were > couched down and silk colors stitched over them in different densities to > create beautiful "paintings" full of light and shadow -- very sumptuous! > (but not really used in garb unless you want to wear a Cope ;) > > The most inspiring examples of Or Nue (to me) are the Golden Fleece > Vestments. > > I'd be interested as well if anyone has further input on goldwork/purlwork. > I have been dying to do a particular costume that has a goldwork breastpiece > -- just haven't finished figuring out how to go about it (and I've only > embroidered one thing in my life... May as well aim high! ;) Purlwork is easy. It's like a long *tiny* spring. You cut the pieces of purl to length, and sew through the center of the spring. You can also tack it down by sewing it through the "rings" of the coil if it's a long piece. I could show you in about 10 minutes! Where are you physically located? Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:45:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GjW1C031156 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:45:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GjYF5012668; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:45:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Gik32027935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:44:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GigUL012459; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:44:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f23.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23G6K98071627 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:06:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mrscakehole@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:06:19 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.200 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:06:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [86.134.165.151] X-Originating-Email: [mrscakehole@hotmail.com] X-Sender: mrscakehole@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200603030141.k231fQGr080487@net.indra.com> From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:06:14 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Mar 2006 16:06:19.0813 (UTC) FILETIME=[68C55D50:01C63EDC] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:45:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440872AE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I took a goldwork class at the Royal School of Needlework (www.royal-needlework.co.uk) at Hampton Court Palace - an amazing place to learn, and about as authentic as it gets. I think they teach somewhere in the US for a couple of weeks each spring/summer, too. The Sally Saunders book (Royal School of Needlework Embroidery Techniques) is really good and has lots of useful basic info. I've got the Jane Lemon book (Metal Thread Embroidery), but it's an A-Z format, which I find pretty useless. Lots of nice pictures, though. Kate >Message: 8 >Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:45:55 -0600 >From: "E House" >Subject: [h-cost] Goldwork >To: "Historical Costume" >Message-ID: <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > >I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I >work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, >stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the >sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early >16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I >really have no idea where to start with the research. > >(The best website I've found so far for the type of goldwork I'm interested >in is this, even though she does the modern stuff: >http://www.berlinembroidery.com/bullions.htm >http://www.berlinembroidery.com/goldwork.htm ) > >Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic >stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with technique? >I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do have experience with that >angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't translate. And it's >not >the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of time experimenting blind, >because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is so expensive per yard. > >And is this what was called Or Nue'? > >-E House > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 12:49:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Hn4pU000383 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:49:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Hn5Hq014540; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:49:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23HmUP7039431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23HmKNY073184; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:48:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52104.mail.yahoo.com (web52104.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.107]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k23HmGVt073057 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:48:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 28770 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Mar 2006 17:48:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=q7byFRBsda50gxrm5Oo9NK0abDfkPJDUlaADYqnx/QOZquFISfvQ75WvVAojj8VRtFYBmUQ4YI/RE3UwLq6hxe51YsgByQ1T7BwfFlobibkDinEcN42ta1Bv0M4odIE078Beebtq7oitdBqRdnpRsgT2F4Ra4VApz+XgTdkPM7k= ; Message-ID: <20060303174810.28768.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:48:10 EST Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:48:10 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603031632.k23GWXvm098178@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:49:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44088191.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Im not worried, just annoyed at the inconvenience. My husband has built a fortress for a network in this house that includes nightly tape back ups. We outgrew zip drive back up years ago. I'm just stuck waiting till he finds a functioning power supply to make it operational again. Had I believed that I had actually lost anything, I would *not* be this relaxed. I have some rather important and irreplaceable files on my drive. Namely the Sture translations, which are slow but progressing. My husband learned the hard way several years ago not to go messing with my computer without backing it up first. Kathy > I had a computer crash last year. Since then I save > everything to disk... > within a few days of putting it on my computer. It's > a hard lesson but > that's one of the hassles of new technology. It's > harder to fix than to get. Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 12:50:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Houi0000418 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:50:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23HowiF029415; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:51:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Hng1Y039573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:50:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23H8Imj035802; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:08:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23H88cq035610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:08:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:21798 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FFDlA-0007iW-UU for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:08:09 -0600 Message-ID: <312601c63ee5$0a4959d0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c63e5c$bdf12a50$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:08:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:51:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44088202.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thank you all for the great book & website suggestions. I now have someplace to start! And Bjarne, thank you for the warnings! I will definitely have to re-think at least my dream project, which had very pretty, very allegorical, and very impractical goldwork at the hem & sleeves. However, I think it should still work for the realistic headwear applications I was planning. Looking at portraits is what got me in this trouble in the first place! =} About 4 out of 5 depictions of my favorite headwear show goldwork; only about 1 in 30 non-allegorical gowns from my era have it, but it's oooh so pretty when they do. And about 15-20 years later it gets downright common on gowns; I may have to dabble in the 1540s! (I knew it had to happen someday... I just keep edging slightly later. Over the past 10 years or so, my time period has edged from c1380-1420 all the way forward to c1490-1525, with lots of stops in between!) Thanks, E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 13:42:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23IgjUj002656 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:42:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23IgkWL005386; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:42:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23IgLpd048532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23IftnY025726; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Iffta025494 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:41:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id j2so766718nzf for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:41:35 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=oaxIcloVNFlIgv/XGBV9Hu4FmcM7SwKhx9I79XMARAlQwivjH6ja+GcJzhc6YTR3mw66vO4zwjLU3oi0ugKQsb+9XQu6rfVyRkD1Io3X16+wqmQjtJ7k8S9le7K7AFtrqHQ17en/scCnkmY3n4A6DPrVF4fs73cay3mN9yYDGTk= Received: by 10.64.24.20 with SMTP id 20mr12214qbx; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:41:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:41:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:41:34 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Fwd: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k23Iffta025494 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:42:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44088E27.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the Truly >Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the fit around the >armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about 1/2" above the bottom of the >armhole (right at the top of my corset) it extends about 3" into the bust, and >about the same length across the back. I'm not sure how to get rid of it -- the rest >of the bodice fits beautifully... I also had this problem on my princess-line tea >gown using their pattern... But I thought it was due to the weight of the fabric, but >that can't be the case for my current bodice... Does anyone have any >suggestions for how to handle this fitting problem? Hey Sunny, Sounds like your dress materials are just a smidge too tight. Did you make a liner to take *all* the stress? The outer satin should just "blow into place" then be merely tackstitched. In truth the corset takes 99.9999% of the stress, the fitted lining carries the small stress of closure. > Should I make the armhole >bigger (and if so, should it be lower side front, lower side back, or the bottom? No, never! the smaller armseye gives mobility! Dash out to one of the vintage clothing vendors in your area and look inside a few bodices. Even a waist from one of those black traveling gowns from the 90s will show what you need to see about fitted linings. >I'm >afraid if I widen the armhole it'll just pull the armhole out of shape due to the >pull...) should I let the side seam out a little bit? I thought about putting padding >inside the bodice there, but there is very little room.. "Dress improvers" read bodice pads are correct to the period, so much so that most every ladies mag issue will feature an ad for such. Shapes are usually kidney & elipsoid. One layer of batt & construct like a modern shoulder pad. They fit into the body hollows. >. And the bodice is satin so >it shows every little crinkle or dent - unfortunately >you can even follow the line of >the lace on the chemise if you look closely. Sounds lovely! --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com -- --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 13:48:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Im32e002805 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:48:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Im4uJ007548; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:48:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23IlgRe049154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:47:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23IlaiG030378; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:47:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pproxy.gmail.com (pproxy.gmail.com [64.233.166.182]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23IlPrO030215 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:47:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by pproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id e30so348777pya for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:47:25 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=oGHxRxmoeTlScxmNRtzBF6vtZlHDIf/8CqrpdZBbwhT69yuYC9wjbxSHSVeSgNm7YN+xDCeLAv8eHPVa3qne0QYXZitDB9BlGPzGi+AgsEkvftibjFYpv327pmhyCUKsAhEmPWyDbMovVzvUga8LRT1s5+vGEghgtSEc795Ydlk= Received: by 10.65.219.6 with SMTP id w6mr204174qbq; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:47:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:47:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:47:24 -0800 From: Cin To: "sunny sunshine buchler" , h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k23IlPrO030215 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:48:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44088F64.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On 3/3/06, Cin wrote: > >Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the > Truly Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the > fit around the armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about > 1/2" above the bottom of the armhole (right at the top of my corset) > it extends about 3" into the bust, and about the same length across > the back. I'm not sure how to get rid of it -- the rest of the bodice > fits beautifully... I'm sure you've thought of these, given your professional training, but I thought of another possible cause, the stress lines are actually due to slight bias stretch. Fix this by interlining with straight grain goods (selvedge offcuts are traditional) or tailors tape, tho this may be too heavy if your chemise lace is showing thru. Yet another possible cause, the shoulder strap wants to lie slightly outside or inside of where it was designed to go. You may have to release the side & CB seams, then pivot or slide the section until the straps lie right. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 13:55:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Its9S003061 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:55:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23ItuD6011011; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:55:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23ItM2x050273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:55:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23ItF6e037173; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:55:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23IeHbM024111 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:40:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVK007S5DTUX0Y0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:25:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:25:02 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans In-reply-to: <20060303103706.gdvqi63rer4s0s4w@www.goldsword.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:55:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408913C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Oh Susan! You have it so right!!! I used to do full Elizabethan in August at the SCA Pennsic War... Ha! Not now!!! Monica (Catriona in the SCA) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Susan B. Farmer Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:37 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Quoting Penny Ladnier : > Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that > your hand fans are your new best friend? > > I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had > only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the > pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I > have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them > with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 14:10:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23JAfKF003756 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:10:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23JAhmQ017504; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:10:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23JARRn052496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:10:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JANbN049954; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:10:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JAIMf049801 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:10:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A49101E0; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:10:09 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.145 ([209.131.80.145] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 3 Mar 2006 14:10:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c63ef6$63cb90c0$915083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:12:14 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:10:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440894B3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO This is kind of what I meant when I spoke of doing a fine-fit with the lining before you add the garment fabric. A well fitted muslin will deal with some if not all the problems of possible bias when the the outer fabric is added. Most of all my antique jackets were constructed in this way. There seems to be a slight change in the shape and the wearing when the two layers come together. My experience, anyway. This is one area that really shows up when modern patterns try to emulate the ninteenth century fit...starting with the shoulder seam sitting squarely on the shoulder. Another way the seamstresses seemed to solve the problem is with a little wadding in the armhole area. If you are using an antique construction, maybe adding the padding which will also give a look of a fuller bustline, is what is missing in your calculations. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cin" To: "sunny sunshine buchler" ; "h-cost" Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice > On 3/3/06, Cin wrote: > > >Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the > > Truly Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the > > fit around the armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about > > 1/2" above the bottom of the armhole (right at the top of my corset) > > it extends about 3" into the bust, and about the same length across > > the back. I'm not sure how to get rid of it -- the rest of the bodice > > fits beautifully... > > I'm sure you've thought of these, given your professional training, > but I thought of another possible cause, the stress lines are actually > due to slight bias stretch. Fix this by interlining with straight > grain goods (selvedge offcuts are traditional) or tailors tape, tho > this may be too heavy if your chemise lace is showing thru. > > Yet another possible cause, the shoulder strap wants to lie slightly > outside or inside of where it was designed to go. You may have to > release the side & CB seams, then pivot or slide the section until the > straps lie right. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 14:37:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23JbQJD004571 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:37:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23JbRjM029035; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:37:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Jb4h2056160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:37:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JatAE072518; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:36:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JaiIm072322 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:36:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2478c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.140]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CDFDA50036 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:36:41 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501c63ef9$d82f5fc0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:37:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] medieval belt pouch X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:37:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44089AF7.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, I am finishing embroidery for a belt pouch. I wondered if it would be suitable to edge the pouch flap with freshwater pearls? Those i have are 5 mm. wide, are they two clumsy or two heavy for this? I cant deside if i should just edge the flap with couching a silver cord on, or use the pearls. Embroidery is 3 lion rampants embroidered with white silk, and edged with a thin silver line. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 14:38:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Jcwfa004632 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:38:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Jd0SH021839; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:39:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23JccZ1056751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:38:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JcZNc074321; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:38:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JcIEf073950 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:38:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2478c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.140]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id EE16FA5004C for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:38:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000c01c63efa$0fe80d90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com><00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:38:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-15"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:39:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44089B54.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sorry, forgot to tell that the pouch is made in red silk taffeta. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "G.Vinje" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork > On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:45:55 -0600, E House > wrote: >> Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic >> stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with >> technique? > > If you want one book that covers just about everything there is to cover > except patterns; > Metal thread embroidery by Jane Lemon > Batsford (March 28, 2005) > ISBN 071348926X > It covers historical and modern stitches, thread, > techniques,equipment,photoes of extant pieces including Elisabethan and > more. I have bought others, but this is the one I keep returning to. And > the only one I've found truly useful for historical goldwork anytime > within my period of interest(1200-1670). > > Some websites worth looking at ; > Or Nue > http://medieval.webcon.net.au/technique_or_nue.html > Or Nue (Shaded Gold) > http://www.advancenet.net/jscole/ornue.html > > And a brief introduction to historical goldwork; > All that glitters... > http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/Goldwork.html > > Gunvor > > -- > "Jeg har sagt ja og nei og DA får du lov" > Anders (nesten 4 år) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 14:39:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Jdpmm004663 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:39:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23JdrW7030115; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:39:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23JdMRB056922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:39:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JdFDe075045; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:39:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JFTfl054066 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:15:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm28.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBFAF43736 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:15:28 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm28 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060303111528.C14D4AAC@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:15:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5ECJXQjWFexQEAAAAB,333cba866fae330acd711b35aade906f X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:39:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44089B89.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The reference you are thinking of comes from chapter 10 of 'Frederica' by Georgette Heyer. 'She had been the mistress of her father's household for too long to suffer agonies of shyness; the orange-blossom dress made for her by Miss Chibbet, and given a touch of a la modality by Charis's clever fingers, was just the thing for a lady who, without being precisely stricken in years, knew herself to be beyond marriageable age; the diamond necklace, bestowed by the late Mr Merriville on his wife, gave her dignity; and the little Alexandrian cap with which, deaf to Charis's protests, she completed her elegant toilette, clearly demonstrated that she was to be ranked amongst the dowagers.' ' Frederica entered the room a little in advance of her sister, and paused for a moment, glancing swiftly round. The impression she created was one of elegance. Not even the Alexandrian cap could make her look in the least like a dowager; but the fashion of her orange-blossom crape, with its bodice cut in the Austrian style, the shawl of Albany gauze caught up over her elbows, the sparkle of diamonds round her throat, and, above all, her quiet assurance, clearly showed that she neither was, nor considered herself to be, a girl in her first bloom. She had more the appearance of a young matron, with several years' experience behind her. Frederica was 24 years old, and was dressed for the ball at which her very beautiful younger sister was to 'come out' to Society. The reference was fresh in my mind because I have just recently reread 'Frederica', for the umpteenth time. I must say, I never got the impression that an Alexandrian cap was anything like a Phrygian cap. I found this link ; http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/lmm/lmm7-14.html but unfortunately there isn't a picture to go with it. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- kjp1685@yahoo.com wrote: Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part of an ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young woman, but also (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager variety. I can't imagine such a thing being worn w/ a formal ballgown, and (although I don't claim to be a scholar by any means!) it seems especially incongruous w/ a high-waisted Regency dress in a light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where I saw the original reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet cap -- have you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? Thanks for the image search! I'll have to explore using that more! KP "Susan B. Farmer" wrote: Quoting Kathryn Parke : > Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) > google image search is your friend http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=phrygian+hat&btnG=Search Susan ----- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 14:43:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23JhorO004754 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:43:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Jhp6e031866; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:43:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23JgU0l057571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:42:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JgRJD078143; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:42:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JgKLe078034 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:42:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAFFC807FE; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 19:37:35 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:32 -0800 Message-ID: <001801c63efa$9d4579c0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060303084227.01dd9a68@127.0.0.1> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:43:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44089C77.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I bought a black lace fan for use this past year at Dickens Fair. It was the best $ I ever spent. Not only for hot flashes, but with all the people in there, it gets quite warm. And as we dress as though we are in London, outside in December, we roast. (Especially after a fast polka) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:45 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans At 07:26 03/03/2006, you wrote: >Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that >your hand fans are your new best friend? > >I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had >only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the >pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I >have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them >with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! You and me both Penny! I carry a little Chinese folding fan in my very small purse/handbag all the time. I pay 50p for them and buy them by the dozen, as they break, but I'd rather use them than my "good" collection of fans, which I had a habit of losing. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 16:13:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23LDWN7008396 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:13:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23LDWB3005183; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:13:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23LCqGU072370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:12:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23LCRmI061041; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:12:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23LCHnM060808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:12:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:23101 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FFHZT-0000V2-Sk for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:12:20 -0600 Message-ID: <316901c63f07$2589d9f0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c63ef9$d82f5fc0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval belt pouch Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:12:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:13:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408B17C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I'm sure both would look nice, but I'd prefer the silver cord couched on to the pearls... it sounds like it would be more in harmony with the rest of the pouch, and more of the same delicate look as the main embroidery. (I'm assuming the rest doesn't have any pearls in it?) On the other hand, the contrast might be nice... However, pearls that size might make the pouch a bit less functional, though I don't know if function is exactly the main point here! =} I'm looking forward to pictures of it! I hope you post them. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 16:34:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23LYYth009299 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:34:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23LYZgG014039; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:34:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23LXTKc076041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:33:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23LWOO8079827; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:32:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23LW636079487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:32:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:23165 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FFHsh-0002NL-Pj for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:32:13 -0600 Message-ID: <316d01c63f09$ebdb9650$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060303091006.62307.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:32:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:34:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408B66B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO [comments in-line, and lots of snips] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" Hiya, <> E says: Doh! I certainly would have been interested. I don't think I'll be able to make it from Missouri to Ontario anytime soon, unfortunately. <> E says: Oh dear. Hope you get over it quickly! (Have you tried Zicam? It makes everything taste awful, but it works.) <> E says: I was afraid this would be the case. Drea Leed has some pictures of late 16thC/early 17thC coifs, several of which have a type of goldwork, on her site: http://costume.dm.net/headwear/coifpics.html That would be the closest thing to an extant example I've seen, but it looks to me like embroidery with gold-wrapped thread rather than the purl/bullion stuff that screams "MAKE ME" at me whenever I see it. There are a lot of portraits and paintings with something that, at least to my eye, just HAS to be the purl/bullion stuff, but I'd love to have something a tad more solid, like an extant piece or some contemporary manuscripts. Or a nice manual from 1518 on how to do it. Hey, why not dream big? <> E says: Very interesting! That's certainly a lot more than I would have expected. I'm in the process of looking through the extant garment section on one of the embroidery sites that was post earlier--hopefully I'll find some of these there. <> E says: I've just been completely won over by Joady at Hedgehog Handworks, who has now done two very nice and completely unnecessary things (from her point of view) for me, so if what I need is something she has, I'll be getting it from her. She doesn't have the real thing, though, so in a couple of years I'll be bugging Lorina! E says: Thank you so much for the suggestions/reviews of books. I'll be looking into those. And I will feel better about what the back of my work looks like! (Hey, I'll be tacking a lining over the back anyway, so why should I obsess?) <> E says: Very much! Thanks for the info and the great ideas, and go drink lots of liquids and get plenty of rest. =} -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 16:39:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23LddNX009491 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:39:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23LdfEf015889; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:39:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23LY2WX076133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:34:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23LXxHR081018; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:33:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23LXq0x080768 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:33:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.24]) by pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FFHmw-0002E4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:26:14 -0500 Message-ID: <17751758.1141421174658.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:26:14 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:39:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408B79D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In case there's anyone who hasn't discovered it yet, there is lots of expertise on goldwork (as well as lots of other subjects) on the Historic Needlework list, which is hosted at: http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/h-needlework I know there's at least one expert on Elizabethan sweet bags on the list (not me!) :) The H-Needlework list is actually a "child" of this list, in that it started from a discussion here of the idea that there ought to be a place where both costume-related and non-costume-related needlework could be discussed at length. It's a good bunch of folks and (need I say) very helpful. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 18:52:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23NqrJE014162 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:52:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23NqsTo027788; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:52:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23NqNkZ095850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:52:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Nq6wj004456; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:52:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com (msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com [192.25.240.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Nq249004298 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:52:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sunshine_buchler@agilent.com) Received: from relcos1.cos.agilent.com (relcos1.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.239]) by msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56515F10 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from wlvdvs01.lvld.agilent.com (wlvdvs01.lvld.agilent.com [148.5.6.4]) by relcos1.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D0B8817 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from wcosbh02.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.126]) by wlvdvs01.lvld.agilent.com with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:51:54 -0700 Received: from wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.80]) by wcosbh02.cos.agilent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:51:54 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:51:53 -0700 Message-ID: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B0781E579@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice Thread-Index: AcY/FxXLz6eRdO4xRY2SV8Yr4rguRAABifYA From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Mar 2006 23:51:54.0394 (UTC) FILETIME=[731427A0:01C63F1D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k23Nq249004298 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:52:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408D6D6.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thank you everyone for your help! Letting out the tops of the side seams just a smidge and then adding "dress improvers" seems to have done the trick :-) Thank you very much! -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 21:00:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24204ud017637 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:00:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24201FW004540; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:00:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k241xPcQ010020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:59:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k241xKrs001941; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:59:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k241xE6n001848 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:59:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1FFM362WCw-00024L; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:59:13 -0500 Message-ID: <004001c63f2f$3d0d9170$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> <6.2.3.4.0.20060303084227.01dd9a68@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:59:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:00:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408F4A1.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Suzi, My mother buys me cheap little silk or lace fans. I have been caring them around. I have three antique fans that daughters have sold me with letters about how there mothers used them. I like the personal stories that come with them. Their mothers had passed away, and they wanted someone to have them that would appreciate them. One of the fans the Japanese mother had used her whole life. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 21:19:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k242JHUK018006 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:19:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k242JIsm011034; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:19:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k242Iruf012388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:18:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k242IoGb016880; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:18:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52812.mail.yahoo.com (web52812.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k242ImVc016747 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:18:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 72060 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2006 02:18:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AgPCMhwHNMys400zcMuOz//GviEMV26IGjhvN/dSAmTJYRzuju3BoOQlxZEiVXhiTRwQN9jk0dPNk0rimo0qO+AvSKmX2pVad87RLTnKvjIpDXK2x9bQfv+GDiAMuA0iBDF+BN27Dezxo9DYxfP3H53Y5Vl5rj1KPalpOJ40G1w= ; Message-ID: <20060304021842.72057.qmail@web52812.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52812.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:18:42 PST Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:18:42 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20060303111528.C14D4AAC@resin04.mta.everyone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:19:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408F926.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Ah, yes, of course -- how silly of me! I love Heyer, and I should have remembered that! Yes, I found that page, too, and felt very cheated when it was just text. I'm still having trouble picturing this, and wondering if Miss Heyer did indeed have a Phrygian hat in mind when she wrote that, but I guess we'll never know for sure! KP Joannah Hansen wrote: The reference you are thinking of comes from chapter 10 of 'Frederica' by Georgette Heyer. 'She had been the mistress of her father's household for too long to suffer agonies of shyness; the orange-blossom dress made for her by Miss Chibbet, and given a touch of a la modality by Charis's clever fingers, was just the thing for a lady who, without being precisely stricken in years, knew herself to be beyond marriageable age; the diamond necklace, bestowed by the late Mr Merriville on his wife, gave her dignity; and the little Alexandrian cap with which, deaf to Charis's protests, she completed her elegant toilette, clearly demonstrated that she was to be ranked amongst the dowagers.' ' Frederica entered the room a little in advance of her sister, and paused for a moment, glancing swiftly round. The impression she created was one of elegance. Not even the Alexandrian cap could make her look in the least like a dowager; but the fashion of her orange-blossom crape, with its bodice cut in the Austrian style, the shawl of Albany gauze caught up over her elbows, the sparkle of diamonds round her throat, and, above all, her quiet assurance, clearly showed that she neither was, nor considered herself to be, a girl in her first bloom. She had more the appearance of a young matron, with several years' experience behind her. Frederica was 24 years old, and was dressed for the ball at which her very beautiful younger sister was to 'come out' to Society. The reference was fresh in my mind because I have just recently reread 'Frederica', for the umpteenth time. I must say, I never got the impression that an Alexandrian cap was anything like a Phrygian cap. I found this link ; http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/lmm/lmm7-14.html but unfortunately there isn't a picture to go with it. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- kjp1685@yahoo.com wrote: Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part of an ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young woman, but also (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager variety. I can't imagine such a thing being worn w/ a formal ballgown, and (although I don't claim to be a scholar by any means!) it seems especially incongruous w/ a high-waisted Regency dress in a light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where I saw the original reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet cap -- have you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? Thanks for the image search! I'll have to explore using that more! KP "Susan B. Farmer" wrote: Quoting Kathryn Parke : > Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) > google image search is your friend http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=phrygian+hat&btnG=Search Susan ----- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 21:33:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k242XGjR018298 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:33:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k242XIV9015575; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:33:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k242WtY3013978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k242Wmff027086; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:32:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nproxy.gmail.com (nproxy.gmail.com [64.233.182.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k242Wcj3027007 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:32:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kristalori@gmail.com) Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x29so595126nfb for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:32:37 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=KjNJv6E4wrq4Dw4fpNOp93jP0xaHkUjDQmVoQe/wTB/SfOSMzvdoHnKpE0HZzW1FDxbTVC9LkCkm8/cH7YrflvLg/G+abnLUHi4MajOzqex10flc2OX8uBCNFqs4gHYTlwU/OeIv4mM4SK1UfLzHLhWgi9fkKijGvocSss2z54U= Received: by 10.48.3.3 with SMTP id 3mr29531nfc; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:32:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.8.1 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:32:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7164eae90603031832x64140f0cy49542bf2c7c0dfe5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:32:37 -0500 From: "Kristalori (Bice)" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap In-Reply-To: <20060304021842.72057.qmail@web52812.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060303111528.C14D4AAC@resin04.mta.everyone.net> <20060304021842.72057.qmail@web52812.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:33:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408FC6E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k242XGjR018298 Status: RO I *know* I've seen that hat on Regency Era fashion plates but I can't recall where or what years. But I know I saw the hat. It was very stylish. I checked both http://fashion-era.com/regency_taste.htm and http://www.songsmyth.com/index.html and couldn't find it however. But it wasn't a hat as well known as a turban but it was indeed popular enough to be seen in a fashion plate..as I recall the versions I saw were in colors as well. Reds, yellows and white. Bice On 3/3/06, Kathryn Parke wrote: > > Ah, yes, of course -- how silly of me! I love Heyer, and I should have > remembered that! > > Yes, I found that page, too, and felt very cheated when it was just > text. I'm still having trouble picturing this, and wondering if Miss Heyer > did indeed have a Phrygian hat in mind when she wrote that, but I guess > we'll never know for sure! > > KP > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 21:39:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k242d30e018454 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:39:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k242d4hQ017355; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:39:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k242chcB014526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:38:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k242ceBV031305; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:38:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k242ca41031197 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:38:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.215.13fd86c5 (25508) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:38:29 -0500 (EST) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <215.13fd86c5.313a57a5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:38:29 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval belt pouch To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:39:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408FDC9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Despite my love of pearls and dark red silk(!), I'd go with the silver too (unless there are pearls in the main design). If the pearls are only at the edge it might look jarring or out of place. Debbie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 23:10:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k244Afwa021436 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:10:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k244AgPG013317; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:10:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2449uGe027923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:09:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2449k5n093119; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:09:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from orion.dandy.net (orion.dandy.net [209.128.224.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2449gvo093051 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:09:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.242.175] (acty1175.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.175]) by orion.dandy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3975C69F for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:09:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <44091300.2010703@dandy.net> Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 23:09:36 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] period fastenings again References: <20060226093214.96145.qmail@web37514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060226093214.96145.qmail@web37514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 23:10:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44091342.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, Zuzana. I don't mean to sound disparaging, but, from what I have seen looking at one of these pages (the first, in fact) by Ms. White, this is a perfect example of the phrase "don't believe everything you read on the internet". With the impressive title of "Welcome to a History Lesson", I thought there might have been a little more research done on it. A number of the "facts" presented in the button section as well as the following ones (knitting and crochet) are totally incorrect, and none of the sources for these "facts" are even quoted. I especially liked the "fact" about Francis I. Doing some simple calculations based on the weight and size of a button of the period that I own in brass, and assuming that the button was 1/2 inch across and 1/16th of an ounce, I have calculated that the buttons in brass (and remember silver and gold are heavier) weighed down the clothing to the tune of 53.15 pounds. Not much for a man accustomed to armor, but, basing the button size on 1/2 inch at 13,600 buttons, the buttons, pushed up next to each other, would take up a space of 50 inches by 68 inches. Oddly enough, I've never seen a painting of such a remarkable garment. It would have looked like a Renaissance version of the pearl button clothing worn by Dick van Dyke from Mary Poppins. One would think that such a work would have been memorialized in art, but alas, no such painting has come to my attention. . Perhaps the other references are better documented. Even the last, Stefan's Floriligium, which contains many gems of research within, in this case is merely a discussion which, as it is read, becomes visibly opinionated, or rather, filled with both opinions and facts. The facts are obvious, as they contain their documentation. I would advise crossreferencing any of the "facts" that you come across before deciding to use them. Good Luck, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 23:46:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k244k5xR022950 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:46:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k244k4Gh024070; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:46:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k244jnxG031499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:45:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k244jiJI019247; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:45:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k244jfxJ019130 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:45:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from m.p.decker@att.net) Received: from toshibauser (179.birmingham-04rh16rt.al.dial-access.att.net[12.74.175.179]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <200603040445351130074q4ke>; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:45:35 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c63f46$73875f30$b3af4a0c@toshibauser> From: "margaret" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060303174810.28768.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Question on tenth century Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 17:42:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 23:46:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44091B8C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I want to star making some new stuff for my husband & my self and need a good starting place for Tenth century clothing construction. I have a lot of pictures but nothing on construction. Margaret _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 00:33:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k245XEAg025244 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:33:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k245XD0u004448; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:33:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k245Wfpw037507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 22:32:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k245WaU6052094; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 22:32:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k244dM3t015218 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:39:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MaddNancy@aol.com) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.20a.1382c5f0 (25508) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:39:13 -0500 (EST) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <20a.1382c5f0.313a73f1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:39:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:33:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44092699.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Does anyone know of any extant 15th or 16th century fans? I am curious as to materials used as well as techniques. If any are in the V&A, please let me know as I am planning a visit there. Thank you, Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 01:02:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2462HD2027824 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:02:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2462IgF012282; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:02:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2461pYN041098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:01:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2461j0w072142; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:01:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2461fXZ072073 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:01:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20l3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.163] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FFPpk-0001Mb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 01:01:40 -0500 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20060303235347.02d3e320@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:01:32 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200603030910.k239AtkF043717@net.indra.com> References: <200603030910.k239AtkF043717@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 01:02:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44092D6A.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO For REALLY cheap stuff to practice with, I've seen (and have a stash of) Christmas decorations that look like a slightly larger and coarser version of rough perl. It's sold in packets as a look-alike for tinsel. It is metal (I have some in pure copper and some in another metal colored blue). I got it because I mostly do fantasy and SF costumes, and from a big stage the larger size and scale is a good thing. But I think you could also use it like "muslin" - the $1 / yd stuff you don't care what color it is because it's just for practice. I think this stuff was a couple of dollars a packet, enough to solidly cover a small evening bag. Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 03:04:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2484KDE014395 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 03:04:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2484M4F011815; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 03:04:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2482hJ8071066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:02:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2482W3I057282; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:02:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nproxy.gmail.com (nproxy.gmail.com [64.233.182.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2482UlB057234 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:02:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from carolineebuckley@gmail.com) Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m18so112768nfc for ; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:02:28 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ugGigsTT4eww31fdWy3xeb9dQ2LIJhl/GWL+vjvXemwnEqnrzOE18z3Djxb04hQOKhaZHKRHsly6JSsEkyxvjf5dd8wREKKzKwMynjTYonqVy3Fz768uFzWjTlw563fqdbvfy3AFI7riGCpeN5ClyhtDWULBcH2P39eLdQ5slzY= Received: by 10.48.142.9 with SMTP id p9mr1475990nfd; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:02:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.90.14 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:02:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <37ee9e000603040002h20eeacb6k@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:02:28 +0000 From: Caroline To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Question on tenth century In-Reply-To: <000001c63f46$73875f30$b3af4a0c@toshibauser> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060303174810.28768.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> <000001c63f46$73875f30$b3af4a0c@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 03:04:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44094A06.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2484KDE014395 Status: RO Which country are you wanting Margaret? On 03/03/06, margaret wrote: > > I want to star making some new stuff for my husband & my self and need a > good starting place for Tenth century clothing construction. I have a lot > of > pictures but nothing on construction. > Margaret > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Caroline "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." G B Shaw _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 06:07:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24B76NQ019420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:07:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24B78Ap003772; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:07:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24B6YXx094134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:06:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24B6SHe092668; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:06:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24B6Nqk092577 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:06:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-179-33.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.179.33]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24B6Fb9026540 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 05:06:22 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050214.01d20608@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:04:57 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:07:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440974DC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Greetings I know I'm being naughty posting another commercial message but I do have another bunch of fabric to clear out. They are on the same webpage that my long-suffering husband has done up for me. If you're at all interested in any of it, please contact me at dannw at mn.rr.com and it is on a first come, first claim basis! http://www.cyberiosity.com/FabricSale/Default.html Cheers, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 06:11:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BBmHH020899 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:11:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BBoUr005494; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:11:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24BBLVr094597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:11:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BBLXa096663; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:11:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BBIt1096612 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:11:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-179-33.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.179.33]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24BBF57018909 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 05:11:17 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050500.01d1fb40@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:11:05 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: Subject: [h-cost] a good book deal...16th c. buffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:11:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440975F6.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Greetings, While I'm being commercial, I thought I would point out this good deal I have found, this time I have no affiliation. : ) http://www.labyrinthbooks.com/ has a copy of David Starkey's "Six Wives: The Queens of Henry VIII" for $7.98 http://www.labyrinthbooks.com/all_detail.aspx?isbn=069401043X I thought some of you might be interested. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 06:14:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BEWxp021667 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:14:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BEYRm006547; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:14:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24BDdId094738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:13:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BDYj0098486; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:13:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail-ihug.icp-qv1-irony4.iinet.net.au (ihug-mail.icp-qv1-irony4.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BDRAU098265 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:13:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: from 203-173-0-241.dyn.iinet.net.au (HELO [203.173.0.241]) ([203.173.0.241]) by mail-ihug.icp-qv1-irony4.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2006 19:13:21 +0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,164,1139155200"; d="scan'208"; a="637548473:sNHT21430252" User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 22:10:25 +1100 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale From: "Garden, A & J" To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050214.01d20608@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:14:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409769A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I'm interested in: Regency bonnet. Violet with cream ribbons. Dupioni silk. Chenille striped ribbons. Almost completely handsewn. Never worn. Striped silk/cotton blend. Cream, dusty green silk, cotton. 10 yards @ 45" wide. Stripes are parallel to selvedge - close-up colours are more accurate. Indian plaid silk. Royal purple, metallic gold silk, metallic thread. 5 yards 6" @ 42" wide. Stretchy striped boucle wool. Green and black wool. 5 1/4 yards @ 60" wide. The stripes are perpendicular to the selvedge, and the black stripe is somewhat sheer. What are your prices? And how much do they weigh? Thanks, Aylwen > From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:04:57 -0600 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale > > Greetings > > I know I'm being naughty posting another commercial message but I do > have another bunch of fabric to clear out. They are on the same > webpage that my long-suffering husband has done up for me. If you're > at all interested in any of it, please contact me at dannw at > mn.rr.com and it is on a first come, first claim basis! > > http://www.cyberiosity.com/FabricSale/Default.html > > Cheers, > Danielle Nunn-Weinberg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 06:23:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BNthc024649 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:23:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BNvul010160; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:24:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24BNbo2095645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:23:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BNYwA010351; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:23:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.texas.rr.com [24.93.47.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BNU0H010279 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:23:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from SCLARK935@AUSTIN.RR.COM) Received: from hewlettt06rp0e (cpe-66-68-97-127.austin.res.rr.com [66.68.97.127]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k24BNSeF017093 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 05:23:29 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <011301c63f7f$8674dd00$7f614442@hewlettt06rp0e> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050214.01d20608@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 05:33:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:24:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440978CD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I would like to know what you are asking for the 2 pieces of royal blue duchesse satin. Thanks, Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 5:04 AM Subject: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale > Greetings > > I know I'm being naughty posting another commercial message but I do have > another bunch of fabric to clear out. They are on the same webpage that > my long-suffering husband has done up for me. If you're at all interested > in any of it, please contact me at dannw at mn.rr.com and it is on a first > come, first claim basis! > > http://www.cyberiosity.com/FabricSale/Default.html > > Cheers, > Danielle Nunn-Weinberg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 06:56:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BuwR8031949 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:56:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24Bv0KT020846; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:57:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24BuWvj098740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:56:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BuNb3034379; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:56:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BuJES034353 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:56:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-179-33.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.179.33]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24BuETh001592 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 05:56:18 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060304055311.01c7a4a0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:54:53 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale In-Reply-To: <011301c63f7f$8674dd00$7f614442@hewlettt06rp0e> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050214.01d20608@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <011301c63f7f$8674dd00$7f614442@hewlettt06rp0e> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:57:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409808C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Susan, The 5 1/2 yard piece is $75 and the 1 1/2 yard piece is $20. Thank you for your interest. Cheers, Danielle At 05:33 AM 3/4/2006, you wrote: >I would like to know what you are asking for the 2 pieces of royal >blue duchesse satin. > >Thanks, >Susan > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 5:04 AM >Subject: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale > > >>Greetings >> >>I know I'm being naughty posting another commercial message but I >>do have another bunch of fabric to clear out. They are on the same >>webpage that my long-suffering husband has done up for me. If >>you're at all interested in any of it, please contact me at dannw >>at mn.rr.com and it is on a first come, first claim basis! >> >>http://www.cyberiosity.com/FabricSale/Default.html >> >>Cheers, >>Danielle Nunn-Weinberg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 09:09:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24E9MaP028313 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:09:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24E9NSa030396; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:09:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24E8hTe011662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:08:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24E8dKP024028; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:08:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52102.mail.yahoo.com (web52102.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.105]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k24E8aqk023944 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:08:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 11159 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2006 14:08:31 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=tZQwsgDKlKlLBzU86QcezAFm0DeAb5eS9jOLWCtN7gx3z8TrOAw+RoNaFf4fE1nHoYyjwBFGMBZhUhZPmV/zbhojwEg4JziQOSH8a663UVsmC7AYYQ/XogsvhYl6dQ+AkeXiQyrL4T3VOX4DH1TC08HGbL0cI0dJdeCX08XsO+Q= ; Message-ID: <20060304140831.11157.qmail@web52102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:08:31 EST Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:08:31 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603040232.k242Wu1D027234@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:09:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44099F93.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Computer is back up and running again. Just tell me where you would like me to send it. > E says: Doh! I certainly would have been > interested. It sounds vaguely familiar, probably from commercials. Im in Canada, so Im not sure we have it. I'll keep my eyes open for it. This cold has hit me fast with an intensity that suggests the gods are punishing me for something as of yet undefined. ;-) Still haven't figured out the connection between the eye infection and the cold though. Seems to be a recent development; every time I get a cold, I get a minor general infection in my eye. > E says: Oh dear. Hope you get over it quickly! > (Have you tried Zicam? These definitely fall under the general heading of goldwork because they contain either passing or jap threads. Basically jap thread is a much heavier version of passing. It's a bigger pain to work with too for anything other than couching. Just plunging the ends through for couching is a pain, I wouldn't want to try and actually pass that stuff through fabric repeatedly. A good indication if something was likely to have been done with jap thread (which has existed forever) or purl is the date. I remember reading somewhere that purl wasn't invented until they would make a strong enough draw plate to make wires that thin. Jap thread is made with beaten gold cut into fine strips, thus doesn't need a draw plate. Memory, as foggy as it is, is ringing a date to something like post 1500. Draw plates have been around since the Roman times, so I'd have to retrack my path to confirm this memory on why there is a difference. > E says: I was afraid this would be the case. Drea > Leed has some pictures of > late 16thC/early 17thC coifs, several of which have > a type of goldwork, on > her site: > http://costume.dm.net/headwear/coifpics.html I'm binding a book for this very reason. :-) I could have just scribbled notes on a piece of paper but noooooo.. I have to go binding those papers just so I can cover it in goldwork! > stuff that screams "MAKE ME" at me whenever I see > it. If you are being particular, you're not likely to find any. But if say you are willing to accept non-european or ecclesiastic head wear, you are more likely to find something. I think there is a miter out there loaded with the stuff. I can't think offhand where at the moment. Thing is, back then, this was pure gold. When the church or whomever owned an item covered in this stuff was in a pinch, they would burn the object to render the gold from it. If you find one of these, share it with the rest of us, would you? ;-) Or a nice manual from 1518 on how to > do it. Hey, why not > dream big? If you take a wander into the roccoco period, you'll find sparkly bits that'll rock your world. :-) They are so shiny they are to the point of garish sometimes. Well, they were back then. They are often badly tarnished today. The underwear I saw at the Met covered in the stuff looks like black and brown embroidery because of the heavy tarnish all over the purls. It'll be exciting to reproduce those and see what they would have looked like when they were first made. > E says: Very interesting! That's certainly a lot > more than I would have > expected. Knots are period!! And I will feel better about > what the back of my work > looks like! You're quite welcome. :-) And yes I will. I'm sweating most of it out - I'm certainly sympathising with the ladies going through the Change at the moment! I swing between freezing and roasting. Blech. > E says: Very much! Thanks for the info and the > great ideas, and go drink > lots of liquids and get plenty of rest. =} Good Luck. Don't get *too* addicted. ;-) Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 10:11:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24FBPUB030488 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:11:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24FBRGp015957; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:11:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24FAtXe034552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:10:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24FAqxi065910; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:10:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24FAna9065867 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:10:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m195.in-tch.com [216.166.191.195]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k24F25A06561 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:02:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <002c01c63f9e$d3c00fc0$c3bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060304140831.11157.qmail@web52102.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:17:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 10:11:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409AE1F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sue says: One word. Sinuses. Sinuses, nose, eyes, tearducts, ears, eustacian tubes (sp?), all part of the same face. What impacts one part with a cold (usually the sinuses with me) can definitely affect other parts. A few years ago, I got a god-awful cold that morphed into a decent sinus infection (bacteria pig-backing into an already-weakened system, I'm assuming), and as an additional "present" from the germs, I got pink-eye! Didn't know what it was, and when I finally gave in and went to the doctor, he said it was a side-effect of the really bad sinus infection. Nasty, nasty bacteria! Lovely, lovely antibiotics! Obligatory costume content: A bunch of us in my local SCA group have decided to band together and reserve a large meeting room at our local library as a space in which we can cut out fabric. We have gotten to the point of not having anything in the garb closet except decades-old "shabby but still kinda wearable" stuff. From the discussions, it sounds like the newest fashion trend in my part of the historical costuming world will be 9th-11th century Norse. I'll finally have a "reason" and not a "someday I'll use it" excuse for the hoard of amber beads, and the lovely brooches from Raymond's Quiet Press. I have a completely "ripened" stash of wool and linen for this, and it's snowing outside (just in time for the weekend!), so it's a great couple of days for historical costuming! --Sue in March-y Montana, who once took a wonderful class on goldwork from Lin Skinner....*sigh*....I'd love to do it again! ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork > Computer is back up and running again. Just tell me > where you would like me to send it. > > > E says: Doh! I certainly would have been > > interested. > > It sounds vaguely familiar, probably from commercials. > Im in Canada, so Im not sure we have it. I'll keep my > eyes open for it. This cold has hit me fast with an > intensity that suggests the gods are punishing me for > something as of yet undefined. ;-) Still haven't > figured out the connection between the eye infection > and the cold though. Seems to be a recent development; > every time I get a cold, I get a minor general > infection in my eye. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 11:11:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24GBb2t032700 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:11:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24GBc4O032027; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:11:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24G9oEg040296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:09:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24G9iEH006241; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:09:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24G9fHj006110 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:09:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267A632A46 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:09:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4409BBE1.3000901@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 10:10:09 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting fabric References: <20060304140831.11157.qmail@web52102.mail.yahoo.com> <002c01c63f9e$d3c00fc0$c3bfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <002c01c63f9e$d3c00fc0$c3bfa6d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:11:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409BC3A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > Obligatory costume content: A bunch of us in my local SCA group have decided > to band together and reserve a large meeting room at our local library as a > space in which we can cut out fabric. That's a great idea! I think I'll look into doing that when I cut my 17th century coat. Both of them. Right now I mostly cut on our queen size bed, but that has its limitations. And there's no floor space wider than about 4 feet... not that I would put my fabric on my floor.... Dawn A clean house is a sign of a wasted life _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 12:33:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24HXIgZ003241 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:33:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24HXJTv026254; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:33:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24HWYYR049459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:32:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24HWPmi071609; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:32:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24HWLsn071491 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:32:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m130.in-tch.com [216.166.191.130]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k24HNUA02173 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:23:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <000a01c63fb2$94ae0940$82bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060304140831.11157.qmail@web52102.mail.yahoo.com><002c01c63f9e$d3c00fc0$c3bfa6d8@pavilion> <4409BBE1.3000901@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting fabric Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:39:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 12:33:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409CF5F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO We've done it before, and it doesn't cost us a darned thing. It's a pretty good-sized space, with good-sized tables, and a carpeted floor. We have to reserve in advance, etc., and it may help that one of our members is the Reference Librarian , but it's amazing what you can find out in your community, even in a town the size of Missoula, which is Pretty Darned Big on the Montana scale of things (60, 65? thousand?, second largest in the state), but relatively small compared to other states and locales. You might also try your fire stations. We have regular meetings in the community room/classroom at a rural fire station near where I work. All in all, a LOT easier than trying to cut on a bed, or on a very small apartment floor when there are four "cat critics" more than willing to rumple things, or become weights on your pattern.... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting fabric > Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > > Obligatory costume content: A bunch of us in my local SCA group have decided > > to band together and reserve a large meeting room at our local library as a > > space in which we can cut out fabric. > > That's a great idea! I think I'll look into doing that when I cut my > 17th century coat. Both of them. Right now I mostly cut on our queen > size bed, but that has its limitations. And there's no floor space wider > than about 4 feet... not that I would put my fabric on my floor.... > > > Dawn > > A clean house is a sign of a wasted life _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 12:43:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24HhohI003664 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24HhqLj029909; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24HhCNp050344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:43:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24HhBq0079765; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:43:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24Hh7aw079659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:43:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24JQYgf028320 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:26:34 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Question on tenth century Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:47:46 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20060303174810.28768.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> <000001c63f46$73875f30$b3af4a0c@toshibauser> In-Reply-To: <000001c63f46$73875f30$b3af4a0c@toshibauser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603041247.46182.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 12:43:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409D1D8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Friday 03 March 2006 6:42 pm, margaret wrote: > I want to star making some new stuff for my husband & my self and need a > good starting place for Tenth century clothing construction. I have a lot > of pictures but nothing on construction. There are a number of web sites that can help. This one lists the basic construction stitches found in Viking/Saxon clothing, with illustrative drawings: http://www.42nd-dimension.com/NFPS/nfps_stitches.html This one discusses types of seams and stitches used in that period, among other things: http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/asvembroid.html This site focuses on Viking tunic construction; although it's based on Viking finds in particular, non-Viking finds in the same period are not too dissimilar. Moreover, though it's based on what are probable male tunic finds, similar patterns can be used for female tunics by adjusting the length. http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/viktunic.html Finally, here are two web sites with specific directions on how to make a generically early period tunic: http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/FirstGarb.html (geared toward total beginners, but with interesting information about selecting period fabrics, and construction). http://www.virtue.to/articles/tunic_worksheet.html (More sophisticated; requires more measurements and some arithmetic, but I've used it and the results are good.) And here's a bibliography of sources about actual finds (again Viking based but not a bad place to start) so you can research construction issues in more detail if you wish. http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/vikgarment.html Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."--Richard Feynman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 12:54:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24Hshjw004061 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:54:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24Hsjvk001088; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:54:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24HsFpD051437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:54:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24HsEeP088506; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:54:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24HsBPV088475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:54:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:25294 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FFaxM-0004FY-9r for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:54:16 -0600 Message-ID: <31ee01c63fb4$a5ff6840$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c63eae$4b797340$6400a8c0@MAIN> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:54:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 12:54:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409D465.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thanks for all the info, Lorina... In a couple of years, I may be putting together an order for the rarefied stuff! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 13:31:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24IVSSl005595 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 13:31:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24IVU8I012791; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 13:31:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24IUEaX054675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:30:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24IUArl014911; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:30:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.texas.rr.com [24.93.47.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24IU62l014875 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:30:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from SCLARK935@AUSTIN.RR.COM) Received: from hewlettt06rp0e (cpe-66-68-97-127.austin.res.rr.com [66.68.97.127]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.texas.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k24IU4Mx011583 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:30:05 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <009c01c63fb9$bf2d1420$7f614442@hewlettt06rp0e> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050214.01d20608@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <011301c63f7f$8674dd00$7f614442@hewlettt06rp0e> <6.2.3.4.0.20060304055311.01c7a4a0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:30:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:31:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409DD02.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thanks for the info, I'm afraid I'm going to have to hold off on this :( Thanks, Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 5:54 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale > Hi Susan, > > The 5 1/2 yard piece is $75 and the 1 1/2 yard piece is $20. Thank you > for your interest. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > At 05:33 AM 3/4/2006, you wrote: >>I would like to know what you are asking for the 2 pieces of royal blue >>duchesse satin. >> >>Thanks, >>Susan >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" >> >>To: "Historical Costume" >>Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 5:04 AM >>Subject: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale >> >> >>>Greetings >>> >>>I know I'm being naughty posting another commercial message but I do have >>>another bunch of fabric to clear out. They are on the same webpage that >>>my long-suffering husband has done up for me. If you're at all >>>interested in any of it, please contact me at dannw at mn.rr.com and it >>>is on a first come, first claim basis! >>> >>>http://www.cyberiosity.com/FabricSale/Default.html >>> >>>Cheers, >>>Danielle Nunn-Weinberg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:01:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24J1IVn006819 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:01:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24J1KDZ023676; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:01:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24J0qAX058139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:00:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24J0ibV039258; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:00:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24FfJMw085887 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:41:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:41:12 -0800 Message-ID: <4409B521.20301@msn.com> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 08:41:21 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245> <001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub> <6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2006 15:41:12.0136 (UTC) FILETIME=[1089DC80:01C63FA2] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tee Hee-Was: Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (was Princess Elizabeth) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:01:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409E400.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Along these thoughts I had a funny experience a few weeks ago. I needed to purchase a new sport bra for use while riding horses. I had heard that the Enell bras *http://tinyurl.com/hgbfl *were the best. When I opened the package, my first thought was-jeez, I could have made this. Not sure what I was expecting, and yes, I should have known by the pictures, but they are basically a snug fitting bodice! Were it not for the ugly seam that runs right across the nipple, I could practically use it under some of my earlier garments. Ahhh, how fashion and function runs in a great circle..... Sg :-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:02:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24J2Ofd006873 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:02:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24J2QYh009450; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:02:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24J1vqR058395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:01:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24J1vIW040501; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:01:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24Hb3hh075108 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:37:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2473d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.61]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E576547FE65 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:36:57 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c63fb2$4acc7640$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:37:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] =?iso-8859-1?q?soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:02:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409E442.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I was so fortunate, to get an invitation for a lovely winter gathering at Reine des Centfeuilles and her family. The gathering was from friday evening, til sunday noon. It was lovely to meet some of the Lumieres german members. The generousity of Maurita her family is endless, and i was guest in their house all 3 days. Highlight of it all was my first sleap in a real alcove. Mauritia and Kim had made everything so lovely, and their cooking was deliscious. Here i send you a link for some pictures of the event. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm I want to thank the whole family for their warmth and generousity. I got many lovely memories from that week end. I am in endless gratitute to them all. Christian Ludvig de Vollanges.......... Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:03:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24J3b6j006932 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:03:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24J3dOD024515; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:03:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24J26D6058447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:02:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24J25pI040636; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:02:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24IMwMA009320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:23:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-33.sonic.net [209.148.114.33]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k24IMiA1028282 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:22:53 -0800 Message-ID: <4409DAF7.8090405@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 10:22:47 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050214.01d20608@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <011301c63f7f$8674dd00$7f614442@hewlettt06rp0e> <6.2.3.4.0.20060304055311.01c7a4a0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060304055311.01c7a4a0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:03:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409E48C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO What do you want for the 10 yards of striped silk/cotton blend on cream and dusty green? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > Hi Susan, > > The 5 1/2 yard piece is $75 and the 1 1/2 yard piece is $20. Thank you > for your interest. > > Cheers, > Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:14:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JEhda007402 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:14:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JEjwT028041; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:14:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24JEKbX059462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:14:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JEHao049263; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:14:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JECK3049175 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:14:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-McAfee: scanned Received: from [66.43.209.43] (HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with SMTP id 903288830 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:14:04 -0600 Message-ID: <016601c63fbf$d26c8ab0$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245> <001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub><6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tee Hee Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 13:14:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:14:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409E725.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I would think the "ugly seam that runs right across the nipple" is going to cause you some serious discomfort if you ride for very long at any faster than a walk! Denise > Along these thoughts I had a funny experience a few weeks ago. I needed > to purchase a new sport bra for use while riding horses. I had heard that > the Enell bras *http://tinyurl.com/hgbfl *were the best. When I opened > the package, my first thought was-jeez, I could have made this. Not sure > what I was expecting, and yes, I should have known by the pictures, but > they are basically a snug fitting bodice! Were it not for the ugly seam > that runs right across the nipple, I could practically use it under some > of my earlier garments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:25:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JPJUB007877 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:25:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JPLRk031437; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:25:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24JP2LO060545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:25:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JP1Ol057018; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:25:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k24JOufo056933 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:24:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 38762 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2006 19:24:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=y8GKk4/ZWgqAbWDeuSJypLY5Rt7tu5QewxpvAUc8KkLc5lioDKvRVoeS0gPXZ+jtCOP2fAPmdEluNnhOBAMaA10NNQFSZd5Bl66GfD+/kqJg0tcVwljUaXRTaHuAoxJUO/mCOUPB12q1HqYiwXnNvxxxX9POvCM2d59qnJrmHlE= ; Message-ID: <20060304192456.38760.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:24:56 GMT Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:24:56 +0000 (GMT) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] re: soir? d?hiver X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:25:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409E9A1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne - thank you so much for these lovely photos. What a wonderful weekend you look to have had! Now I want to do 18th century!!! Katherine p.s. can you remind me of the name of the loose gown the gentleman is wearing along with the matching 'turban'? It's gone clean out of my head :-) "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:36:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JaNlc008213 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:36:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JaPdP002290; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:36:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24Ja6EQ061436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24Ja3bG064805; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24Ja0NW064758 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2473d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.61]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0C06147FE84 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:35:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c63fc2$eb1eafe0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060304192456.38760.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: soir? d?hiver Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:36:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:36:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409EC39.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Dear Katherine. Yes i was green of envy of him, his outfit is a Banyan. I want, i want, i want. And some slippers............... Mauritia made this off cause.. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "katherine sanders" To: Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 8:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] re: soir? d?hiver > Bjarne - thank you so much for these lovely photos. > What a wonderful weekend you look to have had! Now I > want to do 18th century!!! > Katherine > p.s. can you remind me of the name of the loose gown > the gentleman is wearing along with the matching > 'turban'? It's gone clean out of my head :-) > > "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will > annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new > Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:36:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JaS1I008219 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:36:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JaV2r014251; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:36:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24JaLAu061511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JaKbc065124; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JaEkQ064891 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.162]) by ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060304193608.ZLOK18974.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 13:36:08 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060304133340.0266f040@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:36:03 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200603041609.k24G9isW006247@net.indra.com> References: <200603041609.k24G9isW006247@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:36:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409EC3F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO No , but I happened across a lovely folding fan from late Roman in N. England at the Yorkshire Museum in York. I think that I have a picture around here somewhere if anyone is interested. Beth At 10:09 AM 3/4/2006, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:39:13 EST >From: MaddNancy@aol.com > >Does anyone know of any extant 15th or 16th century fans? I am curious as >to materials used as well as techniques. If any are in the V&A, please >let me >know as I am planning a visit there. > >Thank you, > >Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:43:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JhmXa008536 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:43:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JhoJn004761; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:43:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24JhVmE062135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JhRbD070028; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JhEfC069833 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVM00JQUC3VXEX1@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:43:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:43:03 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans In-reply-to: <6.0.0.22.0.20060304133340.0266f040@mail.alltel.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:43:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409EDF6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Nancy! How are things down South?? I have a book on Fans-- I think there are a few-- but most seem to concentrate on 17th C and beylon. I'd love to know, too! Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 2:36 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans No , but I happened across a lovely folding fan from late Roman in N. England at the Yorkshire Museum in York. I think that I have a picture around here somewhere if anyone is interested. Beth At 10:09 AM 3/4/2006, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:39:13 EST >From: MaddNancy@aol.com > >Does anyone know of any extant 15th or 16th century fans? I am curious as >to materials used as well as techniques. If any are in the V&A, please >let me >know as I am planning a visit there. > >Thank you, > >Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:43:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JhxE9008546 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:43:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24Ji19h015483; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:44:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24JhUFB062134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JhI2C069975; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JhEfA069833 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVM00JQUC3VXEX1@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:43:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:43:03 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans In-reply-to: <6.0.0.22.0.20060304133340.0266f040@mail.alltel.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:44:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409EE01.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Oh yes please!! Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 2:36 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans No , but I happened across a lovely folding fan from late Roman in N. England at the Yorkshire Museum in York. I think that I have a picture around here somewhere if anyone is interested. Beth At 10:09 AM 3/4/2006, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:39:13 EST >From: MaddNancy@aol.com > >Does anyone know of any extant 15th or 16th century fans? I am curious as >to materials used as well as techniques. If any are in the V&A, please >let me >know as I am planning a visit there. > >Thank you, > >Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 16:22:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24LMsQW012291 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:22:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24LMtYX004606; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:22:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24LMEPi073592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:22:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24LM8j4050096; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:22:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52812.mail.yahoo.com (web52812.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k24LM3WP050015 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:22:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 48601 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2006 21:21:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=CVQK+YSg60Wf+EXLlJU6BQ4pXpd+JJ5CwqZwbBKZQ07/KTcSFsvnl9K8mnl0F+bh/C4pV/zY5GJruATR14cyNbD8zBNVbl4tOGcCRzPVFoCeXCozjV3VjDU+D9VksdK26pvTXCJvM5ZQSRppGS2NlXL5w3VETualG9kiJl6PQwA= ; Message-ID: <20060304212157.48599.qmail@web52812.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52812.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:21:57 PST Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 13:21:57 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: soir? d?hiver To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20060304192456.38760.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:22:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A052F.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It's a banyan, isn't it? KP katherine sanders wrote: Bjarne - thank you so much for these lovely photos. What a wonderful weekend you look to have had! Now I want to do 18th century!!! Katherine p.s. can you remind me of the name of the loose gown the gentleman is wearing along with the matching 'turban'? It's gone clean out of my head :-) "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 17:17:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24MH0oJ014171 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:17:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24MH2Y6021245; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:17:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24MGbRO079498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:16:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24MGX5D088896; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:16:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24MGUjJ088809 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:16:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A1B7018C; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:16:23 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.147 ([209.131.80.147] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 4 Mar 2006 17:16:18 -0500 Message-ID: <003e01c63fd9$9334c500$935083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:18:31 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Piecework! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:17:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A11DE.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k24MH0oJ014171 Status: RO Hey there, Folk, Have you seen the latest Piecework, yet? "Garden Embroidery" with snippets of a stomacher and an Eliza. purse, plus a lovely coverlet all in florals. There is also a presentation of Stumpwork with instructions and a project. Knit cuffs that might be useful for the reinactor,and a wonderful 'penny rug' for contemplation by the 19th C, folk. There is also an article on collecting and caring for household textiles (including a handful of 'naughty pincushions' that I have not seen before). And finally, a calendar of textile events and shows from around the country. Now there is a summer vacation to think about... Alas, now to make it through April Fool's Day, which I will be celebrating up in West Moreland Cty (Pa.) presenting "Baubles, Bangles, and Beads", another vintage/antique fashion show for a fundraiser for a service club scholarship program. I will be trotting our some of my beaded and fancy clothes one more time... Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 17:23:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24MN8TS014364 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:23:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24MNA69023106; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:23:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24MMfnR080033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:22:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24MMb9o093034; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:22:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24MMYRg092964 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:22:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.199]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060304222228.USCP16513.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:22:28 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060304161151.02609b60@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:21:22 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k24MMYRg092964 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:23:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A134E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Just got a new catalog of the exhibit "Mit grossen Freuden, Triumph and Kostlichkeit" in today. Item #31 (pp80-81) is a lovely gold on blue Brise Fan (Italian) from the beginning of the 17th century (Inventory # R6125). The book is: Textile Schätze Aus Renaissance Und Barock Aus Den Sammlungen Des Bayerischen Nationalmuseums by Borkopp-Restle, B. ISBN 3925058486 Beth At 10:09 AM 3/4/2006, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:39:13 EST >From: MaddNancy@aol.com > >Does anyone know of any extant 15th or 16th century fans? I am curious as >to materials used as well as techniques. If any are in the V&A, please >let me >know as I am planning a visit there. > >Thank you, > >Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 17:29:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24MTwXT014586 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:29:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24MU0XE024945; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:30:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24MTfmQ080605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:29:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24MTc39097631; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:29:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24MTYFj097566 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:29:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A4C80220; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:29:28 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.147 ([209.131.80.147] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 4 Mar 2006 17:29:25 -0500 Message-ID: <005001c63fdb$6860cd40$935083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c63eae$4b797340$6400a8c0@MAIN> <31ee01c63fb4$a5ff6840$e100a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:31:39 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:30:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A14E8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On the subject of gold work: I picked up a very interesting volume last year that has been tweaking my curiosity enough to go looking for some gold threads. The title is "The Stumpwork, Goldwork and Surface Embroidery Beetle Collection" every kind of beetle and related bug imaginable is reproduced in needlework... I picked it up with the idea of getting inspired to do some of the bees that are found on textiles from the 16th/19th C. particularly during the First French Empire (Napoleon and Josephine) It is awesome! When this whole discussion re gold work came about, I pulled it off the shelf again...Something new to catch my finger's fancy... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork > Thanks for all the info, Lorina... In a couple of years, I may be putting > together an order for the rarefied stuff! > > -E House > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 18:08:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24N8Swu015980 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:08:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24N8UYj003547; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:08:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24N8EAa084338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:08:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24N8DwJ023461; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:08:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24N8Aji023404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:08:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FFfr7-0000xt-U0; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:08:09 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:08:09 -0500 Message-ID: <20060304180809.wlkwfb1t8dkog0cc@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:08:09 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork References: <000001c63eae$4b797340$6400a8c0@MAIN> <31ee01c63fb4$a5ff6840$e100a8c0@compaqub> <005001c63fdb$6860cd40$935083d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <005001c63fdb$6860cd40$935083d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:08:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A1DEE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Lloyd Mitchell : > On the subject of gold work: > I picked up a very interesting volume last year that has been tweaking my > curiosity enough to go looking for some gold threads. The title is "The > Stumpwork, Goldwork and Surface Embroidery Beetle Collection" every kind of > beetle and related bug imaginable is reproduced in needlework... I picked > it up with the idea of getting inspired to do some of the bees that are > found on textiles from the 16th/19th C. particularly during the First > French Empire (Napoleon and Josephine) Is there much 16th C (or earlier) things in there? That sounds like something that I'd like to get! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 18:21:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24NLWgq016545 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:21:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24NLYGc006889; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:21:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24NLBRg085701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:21:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24NL5KV032260; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k24NL217032140 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:21:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bella_lucia_da_verona@yahoo.com.au) Received: (qmail 27320 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2006 23:20:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.au; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ohhIYqvAl2kr/56dcYWfaWMbpdq5nLX3XvZLfRs3TOXj6/4hR1qviSPRx2ZtNapXbGod2EMbVWCpTVWsGiZvA6OBBOnj8w3XcoMA48oOnvKbZXD8jBEAoxjkJVnXlX2tEJK4knXuDIzVRZKTFSN//vKALa2pGYa5Tzfp0eYBZFg= ; Message-ID: <20060304232057.27318.qmail@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.173.204.67] by web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 10:20:57 EST Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:20:57 +1100 (EST) From: Bella Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20a.1382c5f0.313a73f1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:21:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A20FE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Nancy, there's a gilt brass handle for a feather fan in the V&A. It's from Venice, c1550. Go to the V&A's collections search page at http://tinyurl.com/5ofgk and enter the handle's museum number - 105-1882. Bella The Realm of Venus MaddNancy@aol.com wrote: Does anyone know of any extant 15th or 16th century fans? I am curious as to materials used as well as techniques. If any are in the V&A, please let me know as I am planning a visit there. Thank you, Nancy Stengel Ulmer --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Never miss an Instant Message - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 19:25:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k250PeW0018573 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:25:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k250PgT3023583; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:25:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k250Ou1I091262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:24:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k250Ol9t071804; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:24:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k250Oeu2071733 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:24:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AFC101B8; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:24:33 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.149 ([209.131.80.149] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 4 Mar 2006 19:24:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c63feb$7c481100$955083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c63eae$4b797340$6400a8c0@MAIN><31ee01c63fb4$a5ff6840$e100a8c0@compaqub><005001c63fdb$6860cd40$935083d1@rmitchellras> <20060304180809.wlkwfb1t8dkog0cc@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:26:43 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:25:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A3006.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It does not present items from history as much as demonstrating how to replicate these insects in stump work...using a lot of gold threads. It does speak plainly about handling the necessary fibers and the possible pit-falls of same. The illustrations themselves could be from a 'chapbook' of field studies of beetles (and some of their friends and relations). You might contact me privately about how you could have a 'look-see' before you invest in this volume. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork > Quoting Lloyd Mitchell : > > > On the subject of gold work: > > I picked up a very interesting volume last year that has been tweaking my > > curiosity enough to go looking for some gold threads. The title is "The > > Stumpwork, Goldwork and Surface Embroidery Beetle Collection" every kind of > > beetle and related bug imaginable is reproduced in needlework... I picked > > it up with the idea of getting inspired to do some of the bees that are > > found on textiles from the 16th/19th C. particularly during the First > > French Empire (Napoleon and Josephine) > > Is there much 16th C (or earlier) things in there? That sounds like > something that I'd like to get! > > Susan > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 01:37:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k256bQv7031166 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 01:37:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k256bSvb017150; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 01:37:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k256avRg025987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:36:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k256ao3g017709; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:36:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k256ajq0017638 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:36:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from m.p.decker@att.net) Received: from toshibauser (36.birmingham-04rh16rt.al.dial-access.att.net[12.74.175.36]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <200603050636391130073vote>; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:36:39 +0000 Message-ID: <00ae01c6401f$23c64cc0$24af4a0c@toshibauser> From: "margaret" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060303174810.28768.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com><000001c63f46$73875f30$b3af4a0c@toshibauser> <37ee9e000603040002h20eeacb6k@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Question on tenth century Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 00:36:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 01:37:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A8728.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Ireland for husband, Florence for myself. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caroline" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 2:02 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Question on tenth century Which country are you wanting Margaret? On 03/03/06, margaret wrote: > > I want to star making some new stuff for my husband & my self and need a > good starting place for Tenth century clothing construction. I have a lot > of > pictures but nothing on construction. > Margaret > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Caroline "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." G B Shaw _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 02:39:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k257daCN000681 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 02:39:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k257dbGv032571; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 02:39:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k257dI6d030431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 00:39:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k257dFrt054919; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 00:39:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k257dAGD054809 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 00:39:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm31.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6B34C2F6 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:39:10 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm31 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060304233909.C1BBCA19@mailweb37.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:39:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5ECpWdh2yv5gEAAAAB,74d60b832472a525e638ab73806e212c X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 02:39:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A95B9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO And here's some pictures - probably more than you really want to know - so now you can visualise exactly why you get an eye infection ( or an ear infection )when you get a cold. ( Sorry, but I worked in an Ear,Nose & Throat ward for 4 years. ) http://www.webmd.com/hw/health_guide_atoz/hw208295.asp http://www.commoncold.org/cmplcat1.htm Joannah. ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- mooncat@in-tch.com wrote: Sue says: One word. Sinuses. Sinuses, nose, eyes, tearducts, ears, eustacian tubes (sp?), all part of the same face. What impacts one part with a cold (usually the sinuses with me) can definitely affect other parts. A few years ago, I got a god-awful cold that morphed into a decent sinus infection (bacteria pig-backing into an already-weakened system, I'm assuming), and as an additional "present" from the germs, I got pink-eye! Didn't know what it was, and when I finally gave in and went to the doctor, he said it was a side-effect of the really bad sinus infection. Nasty, nasty bacteria! Lovely, lovely antibiotics! Obligatory costume content: A bunch of us in my local SCA group have decided to band together and reserve a large meeting room at our local library as a space in which we can cut out fabric. We have gotten to the point of not having anything in the garb closet except decades-old "shabby but still kinda wearable" stuff. From the discussions, it sounds like the newest fashion trend in my part of the historical costuming world will be 9th-11th century Norse. I'll finally have a "reason" and not a "someday I'll use it" excuse for the hoard of amber beads, and the lovely brooches from Raymond's Quiet Press. I have a completely "ripened" stash of wool and linen for this, and it's snowing outside (just in time for the weekend!), so it's a great couple of days for historical costuming! --Sue in March-y Montana, who once took a wonderful class on goldwork from Lin Skinner....*sigh*....I'd love to do it again! ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" > Computer is back up and running again. Just tell me > where you would like me to send it. > > > E says: Doh! I certainly would have been > > interested. > > It sounds vaguely familiar, probably from commercials. > Im in Canada, so Im not sure we have it. I'll keep my > eyes open for it. This cold has hit me fast with an > intensity that suggests the gods are punishing me for > something as of yet undefined. ;-) Still haven't > figured out the connection between the eye infection > and the cold though. Seems to be a recent development; > every time I get a cold, I get a minor general > infection in my eye. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 08:11:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25DBEA6025716 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:11:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25DBG5k014894; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:11:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25DAl9H074476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:10:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25DAgk5063688; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:10:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.150]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k25DAdDC063639 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:10:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 4926 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Mar 2006 13:10:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=eRHAyUO1Osgn9EFVALnOcdGhQJNvRXx4aX92nzLdyvG/ZCAoT5+fhNDiGAbZssfoYtB53ynZZCAGewy1zuSOhaXQj5FxAJ3FJHCTrsADKyvWPIhKDjr8gLL4DHU0uuFpF7HymD/6430qkSzuxt1PqtOffzpiNXpT/2W6SrbuweA= ; Message-ID: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 05:10:34 PST Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 05:10:34 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: "h-costume@indra.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 08:11:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440AE374.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. Thanks, Annette M --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 08:42:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Dghxe026999 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:42:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25DgjU8025045; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:42:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25DgA4N079977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:42:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Dg8np083429; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:42:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Dg4NU083361 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:42:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01267 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:13:04 -0600 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:13:02 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question In-Reply-To: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 08:42:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440AEAD5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Sun, 5 Mar 2006, Kahlara wrote: > Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best > washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and > wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry > cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool > water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the > same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so > much simpler. No web page, but ... I always wash my wool and linen first, and usually silk too. Wool and silk on cool. Linen on hot if it is undyed, usually warm if it is dyed. In fact, I may wash wool several times first. I want to get as much as possible of the shrinkage done before I cut it. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 08:50:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Doivf027575 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:50:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Dokhc027215; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:50:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25DoUvO081473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:50:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25DoTGW089313; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:50:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25DoQ9i089206 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AC990258; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 08:50:17 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.141 ([209.131.80.141] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 5 Mar 2006 08:50:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c6405c$03b06aa0$8d5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:52:13 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 08:50:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440AECB6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It has been my experience that much of the clothing bought today is labeled 'dry clean only' because of the combination of fibers and materials that are unknown and may not be washable to the same extent. We have become such a wash/dry society and expect everything to be instantly wearable. The one thing I remember from Home Ec as it was still being taught in the 1950s was the basic instructions about clothing care which included 'airing, spot cleaning, hand washing and the like. I grew up with a ringer washer and that taught me another aspect about washing that most contemporary people cannot even conceive. Washing all the fabric and interfacing and even most trims will allow you to continue to wear your garment with the confidence that it will remain as presentable as when it rolled off your sewing table. Any of you out there remember the Talon Zipper ads? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kahlara" To: Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 8:10 AM Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question > Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. > > Thanks, > Annette M > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 10:45:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25FjvdS031964 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:45:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25FjxS7001977; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:46:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25Fjbrm020964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:45:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25FjWYx070006; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:45:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25FjOcU069957 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:45:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m222.in-tch.com [216.166.191.222]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k25FadA28019 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:36:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <002101c6406c$d30b0c00$debfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000b01c6405c$03b06aa0$8d5083d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:52:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 10:46:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B07B7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The "dry cleaning" instructions have as much to do with the dyes as anything (at least according to an old friend who runs one of his family's cleaning businesses). So you may have a normally washable fiber, but one colored with a dye that will turn fugitive with repeated washings. I treat my silks/linens/wools similar to the way that Robin does (in her email), although I think I'm a little more apt to be meaner to my wools, and have very little experience with finer silks. Most knowledgeable people that I've spoken to or learned from directly will say that pre-cutting fabric treatments (washing, drying, etc.) should mimic the treatments you'll give the finished garments. And I'd think that your initial treatment of your wool fabrics might vary a little depending on the weave structure and what type of garment you're planning on making. You may want to make a wool gown, for instance, that is fulled, obscuring the weave and producing a thicker, warmer fabric (easier with plain weaves, and "woolen" fabrics as distinct from "worsted" fabrics). You can then subject your wool to more abuse to full it. Or you may wish to keep your wool un-fulled, as with worsteds, which resist fulling anyways. For these, cool water or drycleaning would be best (and yes, that part's personal knowledge! I ruined a very nice $35/yd wool SCA cloak by washing it *after* I'd made it...what's left might make a very nice, very warm apron dress for a Norse outfit!) One additional point....Watch the decorations you put on your garments. Some stuff won't survive drycleaning (fake pearls being one example), so you might end up hand-washing stuff, or spot-cleaning it (which works really well if you're neat and tidy, and is pretty useless if you're a slob the way I am--I get anything dirty! ;o) If you choose to handwash items (either because of the fragility or other characteristics of the fabric, or because you've added trims, beads, whatnot that would not withstand regular cleaning or drycleaning), be careful that you don't agitate or squeeze or otherwise rub your garment layers together. Especially with garments made of wool. This can cause small-scale fulling and felting, which you might not want! (Of course, the opposite is also true--it's quite possible to deliberately felt a woolen item by hand. I've done it in my kitchen sink to a knitted-and-felted 16th century flat cap.) --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 6:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question > It has been my experience that much of the clothing bought today is labeled > 'dry clean only' because of the combination of fibers and materials that are > unknown and may not be washable to the same extent. We have become such a > wash/dry society and expect everything to be instantly wearable. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 11:25:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25GPHC2001070 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:25:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25GPJwd014995; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:25:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25GP1T0033103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:25:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25GOwNG097189; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:24:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25AD75h047413 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 03:13:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24703.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.3]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B7F226283F for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:13:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003301c6403d$752f1380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:13:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] difference of the sexes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 11:25:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B10EF.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi. When i went to Frankfurt recently, we disgussed this strange thing that all of us has noticed. All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all ladies garments lined with linnen? Is there any natural explantation of this? Also Mauritia told me, when working on the wedding suit of Christian VII, that his suit was lined with linnen, very unusuall. I told her, that perhaps it was because of the insanity of the king ( he was suffering of skitsofrenia), and that perhaps he used to sweat exceptionally much because of this? I have no idea of that, but back to the difference of the sexes, why do you think they did this? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 11:26:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25GQBR9001114 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:26:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25GQEDf008729; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:26:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25GPsoW033430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:25:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25GPs9x098101; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:25:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25DFZwA066639 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:15:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24703.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.3]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F1F8A50014 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:15:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002501c64056$ef1b0b90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:15:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B1126.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Anette, When i made my shirt in the fine linnen, i machine washed it before and used a high temperature. Then the linnen will shrink nicely and the shirt will never shrink any more. Because i have edged the shirt with fine cotton laces, i only handwash it now, but it works fine to pre wash the fabric. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kahlara" To: Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 2:10 PM Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question > Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best > washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I > know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, > but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of > course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method > as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. > > Thanks, > Annette M > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 11:41:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25GfCte001670 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:41:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25GfEkL019339; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:41:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25GeseY038056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:40:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Ger9M009721; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:40:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com ([71.197.44.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25GeomY009656 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:40:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from PYC64 ([192.168.1.102]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:37:58 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:40:54 -0600 Organization: Software Innovation Message-ID: <007f01c64073$922dce50$6601a8c0@PYC64> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1830 In-Reply-To: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thread-Index: AcZAVlEu/pGGsGRpQQeTflQ0IoBT1wAHMN8g X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2006 16:37:58.0488 (UTC) FILETIME=[294BAD80:01C64073] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 11:41:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B14AA.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My information is that dry cleaning helps preserve the fabric treatments used by the manufacturer- either fabric or clothing processes; so fabric of wool, linen, silk or combinations thereof, _can_ be washed, just be prepared for the size/hand/texture to change. (Personally I toss it all in the washer on cold and let the chips, er, scraps fall where they may.) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kahlara Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:11 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. Thanks, Annette M --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 11:43:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Gh03V001734 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:43:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Gh2s8010745; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:43:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25GgjRM038578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:42:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25GgijK010997; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:42:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25GggJe010948 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:42:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FFwJa-0000ik-6y for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:42:38 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:41:02 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question References: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<3L8N+Blb4zNSQH4tBJiTWGAXqm>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B1516.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO One tip, especially for linen - take your yardage and zigzag the two raw edges together, into a loop, before you wash it. It's the quickest, simplest way to make sure you don't come out with a spaghetti bundle of frayed threads. Jean Kahlara wrote >Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best >washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. >I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry >cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool >water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the >same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so >much simpler. > > Thanks, > Annette M > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Mail >Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 12:46:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Hkf3I007046 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:46:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25HkhfP005874; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:46:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25HkIi4049025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:46:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25HkEhx056027; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:46:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from S4.cableone.net (s4.cableone.net [24.116.0.230]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25HkAvA055929 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:46:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from anteckim (unverified [72.24.227.122]) by S4.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S4) with ESMTP id 48355636 for ; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 11:22:52 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:46:08 -0600 Message-ID: <00c601c6407c$af152a00$6701a8c0@anteckim> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcZAVgFPk4+dUvnCRyaFUGjxFsl6eQAJlegQ In-Reply-To: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 95, in=115, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 72.24.227.122 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:46:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B2403.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO If you really want to know about properties and care of various fabrics, get a college textiles textbook. It will have all the technical details. You could look for a used one on alibris or abebooks. You don't need the most current, up-to-date book, because you are looking for natural fiber info, which hasn't changed much. Try a college library if you don't want to buy. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kahlara Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:11 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. Thanks, Annette M --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 13:06:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25I631s007899 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:06:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25I66qf011650; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:06:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25I56ge051986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:05:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25I54qb068531; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:05:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25I51qp068494 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:05:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-McAfee: scanned Received: from [66.43.209.43] (HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with SMTP id 903781730 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:04:55 -0600 Message-ID: <04e601c6407f$5996d800$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c601c6407c$af152a00$6701a8c0@anteckim> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:05:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 13:06:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B288E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > If you really want to know about properties and care of various fabrics, > get > a college textiles textbook. It will have all the technical details. You > could look for a used one on alibris or abebooks. I took a Textile class in graduate school. Everything you wanted to know about fabric! Great class. The text we used was _Textiles_ (eighth edition) by Sara J. Kadolph and Anna L. Langford. I'm sure there are lots of copies floating around in bookstores or on the internet. I think there is a new edition coming out this year. One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they have to test the garment in what ever method they recommend. For *most* garments, regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to label the garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the poor results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to spend very little money researching other cleaning methods. Basically---"dry clean only" is the default setting on care labels. I've bought plenty of garments made from washable fabrics that had dry clean only in the label. I rarely dry clean *anything* but hand wash or machine wash on gentle instead. As for the original question-- Yes, if you prewash and pre-shrink material, you should be all set, as long as you use the same method to wash the finished garment. In other words--don't wash the yardage on gentle in cold water, then wash the garment in a regular cycle with warm or hot and expect the garment to be unchanged! ;-) Denise Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 13:39:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25IdKos009209 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:39:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25IdMgr022000; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:39:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25Id7BR057469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:39:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Id6SN092205; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:39:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from S4.cableone.net (s4.cableone.net [24.116.0.230]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Id34B092095 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:39:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from anteckim (unverified [72.24.227.122]) by S4.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S4) with ESMTP id 48358819 for ; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:15:44 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:38:59 -0600 Message-ID: <00c701c64084$11ad5230$6701a8c0@anteckim> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcZAfwLhoqtPnDoDSfq3TFsK+GECdQABOByA In-Reply-To: <04e601c6407f$5996d800$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 95, in=116, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 72.24.227.122 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 13:39:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B305A.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Denise wrote: "I took a Textile class in graduate school. Everything you wanted to know about fabric! Great class. The text we used was _Textiles_ (eighth edition) by Sara J. Kadolph and Anna L. Langford. I'm sure there are lots of copies floating around in bookstores or on the internet. I think there is a new edition coming out this year." Kadolph's book is now in its 9th edition. That is expensive, but previous edition can be picked up for only a few dollars, and would be well worth it. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 14:01:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25J0v7Y010184 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:01:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25J0xAi028128; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:01:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25J0WEQ061725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:00:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25J0UgY007778; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:00:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25J0Gr1007541 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:00:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FFySf-000GIh-7i for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:00:09 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:58:37 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes References: <003301c6403d$752f1380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <003301c6403d$752f1380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<7Y7N+Nw34zdDeE4t4VjTW2MKaz>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 14:01:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B356C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne, I don't know much about the period, but is there a difference between how close the garments are to the body? I'm thinking of a man's waistcoat and coat compared to a woman's dress, I would imagine a man's shirt is a more substantial garment than a woman's shift, and therefore offers more protection to the outer layers. Alternatively, does the silk help the waistcoat and coat move over the heavier linen of the shirt and the outer layer of the waistcoat, while women are not wearing layers that move against each other to the same extent? Jean Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote >Hi. >When i went to Frankfurt recently, we disgussed this strange thing that >all of us has noticed. >All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all >ladies garments lined with linnen? >Is there any natural explantation of this? >Also Mauritia told me, when working on the wedding suit of Christian >VII, that his suit was lined with linnen, very unusuall. I told her, >that perhaps it was because of the insanity of the king ( he was >suffering of skitsofrenia), and that perhaps he used to sweat >exceptionally much because of this? I have no idea of that, but back to >the difference of the sexes, why do you think they did this? > >Bjarne > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 14:06:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25J6Nir010397 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:06:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25J6QVD029751; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:06:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25J55Q6062859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:05:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25J54ao011962; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:05:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k25J4w50011889 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:05:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 24696 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2006 20:08:57 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:08:57 -0800 Received: from 67.169.138.79 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:06:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1100.67.169.138.79.1141585577.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <003301c6403d$752f1380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <003301c6403d$752f1380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:06:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 14:06:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B36B2.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > Hi. > When i went to Frankfurt recently, we disgussed this strange thing that > all > of us has noticed. > All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all > ladies > garments lined with linnen? > Is there any natural explantation of this? Bjarne, Maybe smells come out of silk easier? In my experience, men and women sweat the same but male sweat is...um...stronger smelling. So maybe linen holds smells longer than silk? Or it was easier to clean? Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 14:22:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25JMLTN011049 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:22:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25JMO81002309; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:22:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25JLjOK065549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:21:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25JLi1b023668; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:21:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25JLdeD023538 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:21:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AA3C02C8; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 14:21:32 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.144 ([209.131.80.144] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 5 Mar 2006 14:21:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c6408a$4db04520$905083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c601c6407c$af152a00$6701a8c0@anteckim> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:23:34 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 14:22:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B3A70.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Ah, but many of the products for washing and cleaning have changed! This will have some small effect on the textiles being treated...from my own experience. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question > If you really want to know about properties and care of various fabrics, get > a college textiles textbook. It will have all the technical details. You > could look for a used one on alibris or abebooks. You don't need the most > current, up-to-date book, because you are looking for natural fiber info, > which hasn't changed much. > Try a college library if you don't want to buy. > > Kim > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Kahlara > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:11 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question > > Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best > washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I > know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but > if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), > would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well > without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. > > Thanks, > Annette M > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 15:27:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25KRBEg013089 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:27:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25KRDRO020404; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:27:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25KQFcX074761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:26:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25KQAl2067434; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:26:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25KQ6Wd067286 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Theresathreadgi@aol.com) Received: from Theresathreadgi@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2b3.5b7112a (4426) for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:25:58 -0500 (EST) From: Theresathreadgi@aol.com Message-ID: <2b3.5b7112a.313ca356@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:25:58 EST Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[h-cost]=20soir=E9=20d=B4hiver?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5121 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:27:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B49A1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/4/2006 1:02:31 PM Central Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm Absolutely wonderful, hope you had as good a time as it looked like.. Not my time frame so not very knowledgable about the costumes but they seemed very grand and well done to me. I have been watching the list to see how the trip went and it sounds like you haad a fantastic time. take care theresa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 15:41:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25KforR013596 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:41:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Kfrrg024683; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:41:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25KfKFK077323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:41:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25KfJbU078473; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:41:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav11.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Kf56P078307 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:41:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:41:00 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV11.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 20:40:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2b3.5b7112a.313ca356@aol.com> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:40:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2006 20:41:00.0740 (UTC) FILETIME=[1CFEC040:01C64095] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:41:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B4D11.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Is this Baroque or Roccoco time frame? I would like to make a Mother Ginger costume with the same shape as the yellow and pink gown. Does anyone know the year span for this gown? I'll need to buy a pattern if at all possible. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver > In a message dated 3/4/2006 1:02:31 PM Central Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm > Absolutely wonderful, hope you had as good a time as it looked like.. Not > my > time frame so not very knowledgable about the costumes but they seemed > very > grand and well done to me. I have been watching the list to see how the > trip > went and it sounds like you haad a fantastic time. take care theresa > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 15:52:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25KqWDn013927 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:52:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25KqZxN027528; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:52:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25KqGa2079237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:52:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25KqFel086612; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:52:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25KqBR8086487 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:52:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.22e.77e2756 (16930) for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:52:03 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <22e.77e2756.313ca973@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:52:03 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:52:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B4F93.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/5/2006 11:25:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all ladies garments lined with linnen? Is there any natural explantation of this? I don't think that is necessarily true. I'm sure there are men's coats and waistcoats lined with linen. However, my two cents' worth--a man's shirt covered him more completely than a woman's shift, I think, so he had a fuller under layer of linen next to his skin. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 16:58:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25LwHmU017341 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:58:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25LwJK8012851; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:58:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25Lvxpv089153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:57:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Lvs0r032533; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:57:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Lvp8V032415 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:57:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41B79A1F78 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:57:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <440B5F07.4050503@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:58:31 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes References: <003301c6403d$752f1380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:58:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B5EFB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Jean Waddie wrote: > > Alternatively, does the > silk help the waistcoat and coat move over the heavier linen of the > shirt and the outer layer of the waistcoat, while women are not wearing > layers that move against each other to the same extent? > You may have something there... it also occurs to me that men wore their clothing open, and the lining showed. Women's gowns and jackets are worn closed, so maybe the lining doesn't need to be as fancy. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 17:21:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25MLetP017999 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:21:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25MLh7J019275; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:21:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25MLCre092691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:21:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25MLAkE048373; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:21:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25ML1jP048249 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:21:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.d9.381aad22 (58435) for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:20:51 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:20:51 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:21:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B6477.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/5/2006 4:58:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > You may have something there... it also occurs to me that men wore their > clothing open, and the lining showed. Women's gowns and jackets are worn > closed, so maybe the lining doesn't need to be as fancy. > > ************************** Beat me to it! You see the lining of a man's coat....especially if he takes it off for some reason....then you see the waistcoat back! But I think a lot of waistcoat backs are linen and even sleeve linings in coats are linen too with the body in silk. This supports the "If you might see it.....line it in silk" theory. Also supportive of this line of thinking: What are doublets lined in? A lot in linen. Are there more jerkins [sometimes worn open and you might see the lining] lined in silk? I dunno. Good question. Ask yourself also, What are women's cloaks lined in? Is there more silk there? Again I dunno. Anyway....I think this is the answer. It might be seen. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 17:50:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25ModmL018712 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:50:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Mof90026779; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:50:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25MoSlt096791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25MoQOE067609; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:50:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25MoNFm067573 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247cc.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.204]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 53722262805 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:50:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000801c640a7$38f4ef10$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2b3.5b7112a.313ca356@aol.com> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:50:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:50:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B6B41.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Becky, Well it is not baroque, and not quite rococo neither, its the time from 1770-80, also called Louix XVI, or neo classical style. For a pattern, well its a little difficult. If you meen a ready made pattern, ready to cut, i dont know, but if you know a little about pattern making, you could use Jean Hunnisets book Costumes for Screen and Stage. The 2nd vollume. In this you will find both a corset, pannier (hoop frame) and a robe a la francaise like the pink dress. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver > Is this Baroque or Roccoco time frame? I would like to make a Mother > Ginger costume with the same shape as the yellow and pink gown. Does > anyone know the year span for this gown? I'll need to buy a pattern if at > all possible. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver > > >> In a message dated 3/4/2006 1:02:31 PM Central Standard Time, >> drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: >> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm >> Absolutely wonderful, hope you had as good a time as it looked like.. >> Not my >> time frame so not very knowledgable about the costumes but they seemed >> very >> grand and well done to me. I have been watching the list to see how the >> trip >> went and it sounds like you haad a fantastic time. take care theresa >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 17:58:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25MwSTi018931 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:58:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25MwU6o028640; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:58:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25Mw9el097990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:58:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Mw7qs072750; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:58:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Mw43l072701 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:58:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247cc.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.204]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A1D99A5002C for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:58:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002001c640a8$4f3c67c0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:58:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] =?iso-8859-1?q?Soir=E9e_d=B4hiver?= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:58:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B6D16.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Forgot to add, that when i get more time, ill make the pictures clickable for bigger ones. And did you notice the petrol blue suit? Mauritia found a provider of real silk velvet in the quality for 18th century. 100 % silk. It was gorgeous to look at. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 18:12:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25NCgkV019319 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:12:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25NCjnt032496; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:12:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25NBBVV099829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:11:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25NBAnp081607; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:11:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25NAuTD081450 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:11:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.260.7f57b1f (1320) for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:10:46 -0500 (EST) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <260.7f57b1f.313cc9f6@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:10:46 EST Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 18:12:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B706D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO no problem at all with washing pure linen - reacts a lot like an untreated cotton - as long as you pre shrink it (washing machine, hottest setting) it'll be pretty much fine in normal washes. obviously depends on the looseness of the weave, etc, (if a very loose weave, it may need shrinking twice), and may change some of the fabric properties, but I don't usually have a problem. washing is fine for a wool that's not heavily felted, or a superfine (one that doesn't have a very smooth, shiny, or napped surface). I'd do the same for wool as for linen - hot setting (not necessarily the hottest this time, due to the (often) greater shrinkage). the reason you can't wash (or steam / steam press for that matter), felted wools and superfines is that heat and moisture are used during the finishing processes. I've actually used steam to 'un-face' scraps of cloth from hainsworths for making medieval livery badges (or so that I can rip out the thread to do embroidery that has to match the garment cloth exactly). the resulting fabric looks and feels completely different. behaves differently too. anyway the end result being either that the wonderful finish that was the reason for buying the cloth in the first place is gone, or (depending on the precise type of cloth), the life of the fabric can be reduced by as much as 25 - 40 % (ish). sometimes you get both results. same applies to tumble drying, obviously, as you're introducing heat to cloth that's already moist! and of course, in the case of overcoatings etc, the water resistant properties will usually be either reduced, or just completely eliminated. debs (ps it really irritates me when customers wash heavily felted wools (hainsworths again) when I've told them not to, and they then wonder why it shrinks and loses its lustre - duh!) but as I said ordinary wool should be fine as long as you don't later wash it a hotter setting that the original wash. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 18:35:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25NZfHT019847 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:35:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25NZhXJ005794; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:35:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25NZMiw003758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:35:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25NZIsb098540; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:35:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav17.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25NZFQd098497 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:35:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:35:14 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 23:35:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2b3.5b7112a.313ca356@aol.com> <000801c640a7$38f4ef10$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:35:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2006 23:35:14.0909 (UTC) FILETIME=[742A58D0:01C640AD] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 18:35:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B75CF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I've read all that I can find on the gown. I have that book ordered so it's on its way. I should have checked your site more. The costumes/garb are wonderful. The photos look as if someone opened a door to the past. Totally a cottage weekend for a group of friends. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver > Hi Becky, > Well it is not baroque, and not quite rococo neither, its the time from > 1770-80, also called Louix XVI, or neo classical style. > For a pattern, well its a little difficult. If you meen a ready made > pattern, ready to cut, i dont know, but if you know a little about pattern > making, you could use Jean Hunnisets book Costumes for Screen and Stage. > The 2nd vollume. > In this you will find both a corset, pannier (hoop frame) and a robe a la > francaise like the pink dress. > > Bjarne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Becky" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:40 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver > > >> Is this Baroque or Roccoco time frame? I would like to make a Mother >> Ginger costume with the same shape as the yellow and pink gown. Does >> anyone know the year span for this gown? I'll need to buy a pattern if at >> all possible. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver >> >> >>> In a message dated 3/4/2006 1:02:31 PM Central Standard Time, >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: >>> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm >>> Absolutely wonderful, hope you had as good a time as it looked like.. >>> Not my >>> time frame so not very knowledgable about the costumes but they seemed >>> very >>> grand and well done to me. I have been watching the list to see how the >>> trip >>> went and it sounds like you haad a fantastic time. take care theresa >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 19:14:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k260ERH8020969 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:14:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k260ET48016436; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:14:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k260E7ca009407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:14:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k260E5E2026193; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:14:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k260DsCZ026009 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:14:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.168] (pm5-168.eos.net [205.133.149.168]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k260DpIM018437 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:13:52 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 20:01:54 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603050740.k257e2P4055473@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Piecework X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:14:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B7EE5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Kathleen wrote: > Hey there, Folk, > Have you seen the latest Piecework, yet? "Garden Embroidery" with snippets of > a stomacher and an Eliza. purse, plus a lovely coverlet all in florals. There > is also a presentation of Stumpwork with instructions and a project. Knit > cuffs that might be useful for the reinactor,and a wonderful 'penny rug' for > contemplation by the 19th C, folk. There is also an article on collecting and > caring for household textiles (including a handful of 'naughty pincushions' > that I have not seen before). And finally, a calendar of textile events and > shows from around the country. Naughty pincushions???? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 19:36:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k260aC2U021432 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:36:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k260aElF022550; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:36:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k260a0Sn013264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:36:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k260ZwfM041056; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:35:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k260ZoP1040962 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:35:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247cc.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.204]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C3358A50024 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:35:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c640b5$f504ab60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <22e.77e2756.313ca973@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:36:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:36:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B83FF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO But the woman would have both a shift and the stays to protect, most of the bodice has the stays behind. Only the shoulder pieces perhaps is not protected. Could it simply be, that men was feeling a bigger rank, than a woman, and therefore was using silk in stead of linen. I know there are mens garments lined with linnen, but most aristocracy fashion is lined with silk. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes > > In a message dated 3/5/2006 11:25:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all > ladies > garments lined with linnen? > Is there any natural explantation of this? > > > > I don't think that is necessarily true. I'm sure there are men's coats > and > waistcoats lined with linen. > > However, my two cents' worth--a man's shirt covered him more completely > than > a woman's shift, I think, so he had a fuller under layer of linen next to > his skin. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 00:37:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k265bud9030628 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 00:37:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k265bwJI007287; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 00:38:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k265bVfk049071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k265bObq040947; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:37:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k265bJaU040829 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:37:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from web3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.194]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060306053713.OFSA6239.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@web3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:37:13 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.183.2]) by web3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060306053713.ERQZ22512.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:37:13 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.1.2/274]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:37:15 +1300 Message-ID: <003701c640e0$06b3b390$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <22e.77e2756.313ca973@aol.com> <000701c640b5$f504ab60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:37:14 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 00:38:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440BCAB6.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > But the woman would have both a shift and the stays to protect, most of the > bodice has the stays behind. Only the shoulder pieces perhaps is not > protected. Perhaps it's the stays that is the issue? Men don't wear something that stiff under their garments which would mean the lining doesn't need to protect the garment from so much spot specific rubbing? It depends on the quality and thrength of the silk and the linen respectively of course. It could also be that men's garments are more likely to be taken on and off or open than a woman's dress so you are going to want the inside to look nicer. No idea, just throwing ideas out there;) But those are factors that I think of when lining my garments. Support, durability and what might be seen and buy whom. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 00:41:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k265f0F8030693 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 00:41:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k265f2Fb008043; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 00:41:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k265ef9g049475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:40:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k265ef2k043167; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:40:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k265eaNs043028 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:40:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060306054031.NMBH11571.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:40:31 +1300 Received: from michaela ([219.89.183.2]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060306054030.SXM18564.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:40:30 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.1.2/274]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:40:39 +1300 Message-ID: <004701c640e0$80578870$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c63fb2$4acc7640$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:40:39 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 00:41:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440BCB6E.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > Here i send you a link for some pictures of the event. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm > I want to thank the whole family for their warmth and generousity. I got > many lovely memories from that week end. I am in endless gratitute to them It all looks so wonderful. How absolutely wonderful to be able to attend an event like this:) Thank you for sharing the event with us:) michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 01:14:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k266EL0M031747 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:14:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k266ELHo017164; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:14:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k266E7en052645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:14:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k266E6g4061924; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:14:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k266E23T061875 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:14:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A20C74006AE; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 06:09:16 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] difference of the sexes Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:14:04 -0800 Message-ID: <000e01c640e5$2bbd1be0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <1100.67.169.138.79.1141585577.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k266E23T061875 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 01:14:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440BD33D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Maybe it has to do with linen breathing better? Those of us going thru menopause would understand and appreciate a cooler outfit. Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Diana Habra Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 11:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes > Hi. > When i went to Frankfurt recently, we disgussed this strange thing > that all of us has noticed. > All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all > ladies > garments lined with linnen? > Is there any natural explantation of this? Bjarne, Maybe smells come out of silk easier? In my experience, men and women sweat the same but male sweat is...um...stronger smelling. So maybe linen holds smells longer than silk? Or it was easier to clean? Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 01:39:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k266dZB3032407 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:39:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k266dcrV025755; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:39:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k266dGo1054897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:39:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k266dEjx076934; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:39:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k266d92O076857 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:39:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 91335 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2006 06:39:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.143.33.41 with login) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2006 06:39:08 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060306062711.01dddbc0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 06:39:08 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] difference of the sexes In-Reply-To: <000e01c640e5$2bbd1be0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> References: <1100.67.169.138.79.1141585577.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <000e01c640e5$2bbd1be0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 01:39:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440BD92A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 06:14 06/03/2006, you wrote: >Maybe it has to do with linen breathing better? Those of us going thru >menopause would understand and appreciate a cooler outfit. >Sharon > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Diana Habra >Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 11:06 AM >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes Early in the 18th century there are so many layers of horsehair, crin, and linen stiffening the silk lining was probably for comfort, but would not much be seen, except maybe inside the front opening at the chest. Later, in the middle of the century the lining can be seen on the back skirts, from in front, without the man ever taking off or opening his coat. It's just the way it is made. Many late 18th century coats are actually worn fastened only with a couple of hooks on the chest, allowing the fronts to fall open and reveal the lining. Facing the fronts with fashion fabric is not usually an option until very late in the century, when coats with tails become popular. Early the following century the "tails" are almost always fully lined in fashion fabric, and the fronts are faced back as far as the underarm with fashion fabric. The insides are tend to be left unlined except for some linen reinforcement across the shoulders. As someone else said, the inside of a woman's bodice would not be seen, so there would be no need to waste a comparatively expensive fabric on something unseen. Just my 2 penn'orth. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 04:24:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k269OTvF032470 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:24:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k269OV1c007840; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:24:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k269NgXc072695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:23:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k269NZJP087723; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:23:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k269NV0a087591 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:23:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k269NL327496.; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:23:25 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:23:21 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:23:15 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k269NV0a087591 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 04:24:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440BFFCF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> Joannah@sluggy.net 03/03/2006 19:15 >>> wrote: >The reference you are thinking of comes from chapter 10 of 'Frederica' by Georgette Heyer. [snip] >"... and the little Alexandrian cap with which, deaf to Charis's protests, she completed her elegant toilette, >clearly demonstrated that she was to be ranked amongst the dowagers.' >I must say, I never got the impression that an Alexandrian cap was anything like a Phrygian cap. ______________________________________________________________________ No, I can't imagine a Phrygian cap being something that a dowager would wear. Surely the association with the French Revolution would make it something that only a daring, trendy person would have? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 04:48:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k269mL3L005932 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:48:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k269mNpJ014232; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:48:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k269m6I3074974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:48:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k269m4fT002233; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:48:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k269m1iH002179 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:48:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm30.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA2C6192E8 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:48:00 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm30 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060306014800.C1BC46F3@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:48:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EDAVQeUdpsAEAAAAB,e0c4bd4f8103bd36877290dc20182090 X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 04:48:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C0567.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >--- K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk wrote: > >>>> Joannah@sluggy.net 03/03/2006 19:15 >>> wrote: >>The reference you are thinking of comes from chapter 10 of 'Frederica' by Georgette Heyer. >[snip] >>"... and the little Alexandrian cap with which, deaf to Charis's protests, she completed her elegant toilette, >>clearly demonstrated that she was to be ranked amongst the dowagers.' > >>I must say, I never got the impression that an Alexandrian cap was anything like a Phrygian cap. > >_____________________________________________________________________ > >No, I can't imagine a Phrygian cap being something that a dowager would wear. Surely >the association with the French Revolution would make it something that only a >daring, trendy person would have? I also can't picture that Frederica would have worn something with that sort of connotation, to such a potentially important social event, especially when it was of the utmost importance to provide her family with the appearance, at least, of an impeccable family background. Joannah. ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 04:54:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k269sFu4007555 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:54:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k269sIRm015691; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:54:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k269s8i9075793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:54:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k269s7bV006448; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:54:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k269s5gp006421 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:54:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm27.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 567FD19DDD for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:54:05 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060306015405.C1BC46B5@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:54:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtoLWNvc3RdIFNvaXLDqWUgZMK0aGl2ZXI=?= X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EDAa9ullXmwEAAAAB,015a91f1e8275f9356d37abceab4cf81 X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 04:54:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C06CA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Please do, it was the only thing wrong with the pictures, that we couldn't enlarge them to see details better. It looks like it was a lovely weekend, I'm glad you had a great time. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: Forgot to add, that when i get more time, ill make the pictures clickable for bigger ones. And did you notice the petrol blue suit? Mauritia found a provider of real silk velvet in the quality for 18th century. 100 % silk. It was gorgeous to look at. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 07:13:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26CDarR007858 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:13:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26CDdUj018475; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:13:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26CD9Wj088886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 05:13:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26CD7Oa091973; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 05:13:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (m02.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k26CD4bP091878 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 05:13:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from llwatts@juno.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m02.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCA2K27AV4ZG9S for (sender ); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:12:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from llwatts@juno.com) by m02.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LJSEK9H8; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 04:11:50 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:10:12 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) Message-ID: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,10-20,23-24 From: Leah L Watts X-ContentStamp: 8:4:2232963452 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: WJAeLflMin2r+7mN51BJ7htOm+ByAQzzOpErYEThA6C02OdVEQ0SAQ== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m02.lax.untd.com|llwatts@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 07:13:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C2773.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing > manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they > have to > test the garment in what ever method they recommend. Not that all manufacturer's actually _test_ the garments ... I think Tommy Hilfiger still holds the record for biggest fine from the FTC for inaccurate care labels. There's a fashion boutique that opened recently in Omaha that is already notorious among the local dry cleaners; the company I work for has told everyone to refuse garments from them because they cannot be dry cleaned regardless of the care tag. >For *most* garments, > regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to > label the > garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the > poor > results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to > spend > very little money researching other cleaning methods. I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To Be Held Responsible". Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 08:31:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26DVZ96010684 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:31:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26DVbK9013182; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:31:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26DVBwB097457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:31:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DV7Z5044049; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:31:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DV4Ev043970 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:31:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A99101B8; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:30:57 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.147 ([209.131.80.147] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 6 Mar 2006 08:30:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c64122$7c926420$935083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:32:57 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:31:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C39B9.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO That has certainly been my take on it for years! The so called care label puts the blame on the owner or outside establishment if the garment fails to survive the cleaning. Besides the "Talon (zipper) ads, remember the Union Label (buy American!) ads when all the new fibers began to come out in the 1950s? Some of the American labels such as Jonathan Logan took great pride that you could depend on their products not to shrink or misshape in the wearing (and caring) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leah L Watts" To: Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > > One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing > > manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they > > have to > > test the garment in what ever method they recommend. > > Not that all manufacturer's actually _test_ the garments ... I think > Tommy Hilfiger still holds the record for biggest fine from the FTC for > inaccurate care labels. There's a fashion boutique that opened recently > in Omaha that is already notorious among the local dry cleaners; the > company I work for has told everyone to refuse garments from them because > they cannot be dry cleaned regardless of the care tag. > > >For *most* garments, > > regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to > > label the > > garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the > > poor > > results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to > > spend > > very little money researching other cleaning methods. > > I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" > was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To > Be Held Responsible". > > Leah > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 08:36:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Dauvq010845 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:36:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26DaxEt015620; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:37:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26DaYkK098078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:36:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DaXv6047869; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:36:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-dav14.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.86]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DaVu0047831 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:36:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 05:36:30 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.245.210 by BAY107-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:36:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.245.210] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:36:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2006 13:36:30.0704 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA156F00:01C64122] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:37:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C3AFB.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Both of the Mums in our household are going through the change, we have hand fans stashed everywhere in our re enacting kit! Most of them are the sandlewood variety. Kelly Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your hand fans are your new best friend? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 08:45:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26DjdGN011111 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:45:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Djgal019494; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:45:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26DjR3m098841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:45:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DjQKQ054083; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:45:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-dav5.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.77]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DjORg054046 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:45:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 05:45:20 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.245.210 by BAY107-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:45:17 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.245.210] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:45:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2006 13:45:20.0687 (UTC) FILETIME=[35FA6BF0:01C64124] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:45:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C3D06.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I was thinking shoulder strap too...It sound like you may have to unpick the strap seam, and take up the front shoulder at an angle from it's original, not touching the original back shoulder seam. You may also want to interline the bodice with your interlining cut so the shoulder strap is on the straight of grain. Kelly > On 3/3/06, Cin wrote: >> >Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the >> Truly Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the >> fit around the armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about >> 1/2" above the bottom of the armhole (right at the top of my corset) >> it extends about 3" into the bust, > Yet another possible cause, the shoulder strap wants to lie slightly > outside or inside of where it was designed to go. You may have to > release the side & CB seams, then pivot or slide the section until the > straps lie right. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 08:50:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26DoBi7011251 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:50:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26DoEnE021310; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:50:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26Do1iG099247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:50:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26Do1hZ057176; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:50:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DnwHI057061 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:49:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id ADFF02A4; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:49:51 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.147 ([209.131.80.147] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 6 Mar 2006 08:49:48 -0500 Message-ID: <003101c64125$26716980$935083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Piecework Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:52:02 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:50:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C3E16.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO This group of a single gartered, lace covered leg, provocatively extended from various froths of silk skirts and petticoat. There are 5! each one more delicious than the other... A very cute idea. kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Piecework > Kathleen wrote: > > > Hey there, Folk, > > Have you seen the latest Piecework, yet? "Garden Embroidery" with snippets of > > a stomacher and an Eliza. purse, plus a lovely coverlet all in florals. There > > is also a presentation of Stumpwork with instructions and a project. Knit > > cuffs that might be useful for the reinactor,and a wonderful 'penny rug' for > > contemplation by the 19th C, folk. There is also an article on collecting and > > caring for household textiles (including a handful of 'naughty pincushions' > > that I have not seen before). And finally, a calendar of textile events and > > shows from around the country. > > > Naughty pincushions???? > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 09:11:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EBaev012593 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:11:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EBaTl030608; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:11:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26EB7FF001409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EB5dL072274; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EB2le072164 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:10:56 -0800 Message-ID: <440C42FF.5040608@msn.com> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 07:11:11 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= References: <000f01c63fb2$4acc7640$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000f01c63fb2$4acc7640$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2006 14:10:57.0073 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9BC5210:01C64127] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:11:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C4318.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The setting is just aweson. It looks like so much fun....if you get time, could you link the pictures to their larger form? There are some details that would be fun to look at. Speaking of which what is on the man's pony-tail in the picture: last column, second row. Is it wrapped in ribbon? Is this something they would have done? Thanks, for sharing. Sg Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I was so fortunate, to get an invitation for a lovely winter gathering > at Reine des Centfeuilles and her family. > The gathering was from friday evening, til sunday noon. > It was lovely to meet some of the Lumieres german members. > The generousity of Maurita her family is endless, and i was guest in > their house all 3 days. Highlight of it all was my first sleap in a > real alcove. Mauritia and Kim had made everything so lovely, and their > cooking was deliscious. > Here i send you a link for some pictures of the event. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm > I want to thank the whole family for their warmth and generousity. I > got many lovely memories from that week end. I am in endless gratitute > to them all. > > Christian Ludvig de Vollanges.......... > > > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 09:11:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EBt1l012622 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:11:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EBvlu031691; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:12:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26EBfsM001468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EBXf1072624; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EBT8K072509 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVP001CZM2HU0B2@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:11:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:11:04 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) In-reply-to: <000f01c64122$7c926420$935083d1@rmitchellras> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:12:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C432D.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi-- I was a designer / patternmaker and technical designer in the garment industry for 24 years. Do not blame the manufacturer (the people who actually sew the garment) for the wording of care labels. Very often the people who make the garment follow what is demanded by the Customer (the people who order the garment from the manufacturer: Disney,. Walmart, Sears etc.) The customer gives the manufacturer a manual that gives phrases and the care label must be taken from that. The Federal Government also prevents the manufacturer from doing "preventative care labling": unless you know that a certain fabric will react by doing something (eg: pouring chlorine bleach on a swimwear fabric) you cannot say "do not bleach". The problem with this is that sometimes the customer insists on going the extra step in stupidity-- over the advice of the manufacturer. I once had an on-going agrument with Nordstroms about using non-chlorine bleach on a chiild's swimsuit. I lost. They insisted that the label say "non-chlorine bleach as needed". The fabric was done no favors with that! Don't blame the manufacturer, blame the people who place the order with the manufacturer. We have our own share of frustrations. (Don't get me started on off-shore manufacturing...) Yours- Monica Spence -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 8:33 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) That has certainly been my take on it for years! The so called care label puts the blame on the owner or outside establishment if the garment fails to survive the cleaning. Besides the "Talon (zipper) ads, remember the Union Label (buy American!) ads when all the new fibers began to come out in the 1950s? Some of the American labels such as Jonathan Logan took great pride that you could depend on their products not to shrink or misshape in the wearing (and caring) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leah L Watts" To: Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > > One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing > > manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they > > have to > > test the garment in what ever method they recommend. > > Not that all manufacturer's actually _test_ the garments ... I think > Tommy Hilfiger still holds the record for biggest fine from the FTC for > inaccurate care labels. There's a fashion boutique that opened recently > in Omaha that is already notorious among the local dry cleaners; the > company I work for has told everyone to refuse garments from them because > they cannot be dry cleaned regardless of the care tag. > > >For *most* garments, > > regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to > > label the > > garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the > > poor > > results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to > > spend > > very little money researching other cleaning methods. > > I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" > was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To > Be Held Responsible". > > Leah > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 09:12:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26ECxR9012656 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:12:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26ED2UU028027; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:13:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26ECkW5001598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:12:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26ECkt5073470; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:12:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EChH4073405 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:12:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:12:38 -0800 Message-ID: <440C4364.4010708@msn.com> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 07:12:52 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tee Hee References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245> <001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub><6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> <016601c63fbf$d26c8ab0$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> In-Reply-To: <016601c63fbf$d26c8ab0$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2006 14:12:38.0074 (UTC) FILETIME=[05EFD9A0:01C64128] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:13:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C436E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO For whatever reason, it doesn't cause any discomfort. It is a very comfortable bra....it does cause an odd shape for the modern taste though! Land of Oz wrote: > I would think the "ugly seam that runs right across the nipple" is > going to cause you some serious discomfort if you ride for very long > at any faster than a walk! > > Denise _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 09:20:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EKrwq012907 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:20:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EKtTT002481; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:20:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26EJwqX002412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:19:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EJuLG078782; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:19:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EJiKA078655 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:19:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.148] (pm5-148.eos.net [205.133.149.148]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k26EJgIM028018 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:19:42 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:07:39 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603060537.k265bXib041045@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: petrol blue suit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:20:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C4548.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne: Wow! 100% silk! It looks so good in the pictures, it must have been amazing in real life. What a wonderful time you must have had. If I ever recreated that time period, I would have to be a servant! I would want everything to be perfect, not just "like" the real thing. But I think I could deal with that! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 09:35:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EYx24013416 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:34:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EZ1cu008613; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:35:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26EY7rl004476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:34:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EY4YM090764; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:34:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EY0fQ090637 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:34:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k26EXsD04168.; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:33:54 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:33:53 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:33:34 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[h-cost]=20soir=E9=20d=B4hiver?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k26EY0fQ090637 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:35:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C4895.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >>> wickedfrau@msn.com 06/03/2006 14:11 >>> >The setting is just aweson. It looks like so much fun....if you get >time, could you link the pictures to their larger form? There are some >details that would be fun to look at. Speaking of which what is on the >man's pony-tail in the picture: last column, second row. Is it wrapped >in ribbon? Is this something they would have done? He looks like a military man, and I think they did wrap their queue in ribbon, presumably to keep it tidy when in action. Kate Bunting (also looking forward to seeing Bjarne's pictures in larger format) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 09:54:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EsJ46014136 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:54:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EsL26017246; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:54:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26ErnDG007372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:53:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26Erkdl008594; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:53:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26Ebupm094089 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:37:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247cc.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.204]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4324247FE75 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:37:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002301c6412b$9b4d2040$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c63fb2$4acc7640$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:38:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:54:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C4D1D.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Saragrace, I am working on it right now, and more pictures two. I didnt have many of myself, because it was me who took the photos, but today i received many nice pictures with me also. Post them in a coupple of hours. The gentleman is having his tail wrapped round with a silk ribbon. It was used many times by military people, it was easyer to handle, and more hygienic two. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver > The setting is just aweson. It looks like so much fun....if you get time, > could you link the pictures to their larger form? There are some details > that would be fun to look at. Speaking of which what is on the man's > pony-tail in the picture: last column, second row. Is it wrapped in > ribbon? Is this something they would have done? > > Thanks, for sharing. > Sg > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> I was so fortunate, to get an invitation for a lovely winter gathering at >> Reine des Centfeuilles and her family. >> The gathering was from friday evening, til sunday noon. >> It was lovely to meet some of the Lumieres german members. >> The generousity of Maurita her family is endless, and i was guest in >> their house all 3 days. Highlight of it all was my first sleap in a real >> alcove. Mauritia and Kim had made everything so lovely, and their cooking >> was deliscious. >> Here i send you a link for some pictures of the event. >> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm >> I want to thank the whole family for their warmth and generousity. I got >> many lovely memories from that week end. I am in endless gratitute to >> them all. >> >> Christian Ludvig de Vollanges.......... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 10:14:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26FEDRK014964 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:14:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26FEG45026905; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:14:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26FDaLj015884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:13:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26FDWaL025837; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:13:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26FDRHq025679 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:13:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.144.576fee83 (15974) for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:13:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID101-3e66440c518a2ba; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:13:14 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c63fb2$4acc7640$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[h-cost]_soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:13:12 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:14:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C51C8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k26FEDRK014964 Status: RO Thanks for sharing your beautiful weekend. History comes to life when people dress for the occasion. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 9:11 AM, WickedFrau wrote: > The setting is just aweson. It looks like so much fun....if you get > time, could you link the pictures to their larger form? There are > some details that would be fun to look at. Speaking of which what is > on the man's pony-tail in the picture: last column, second row. Is it > wrapped in ribbon? Is this something they would have done? > > Thanks, for sharing. > Sg > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> I was so fortunate, to get an invitation for a lovely winter >> gathering at Reine des Centfeuilles and her family. >> The gathering was from friday evening, til sunday noon. >> It was lovely to meet some of the Lumieres german members. >> The generousity of Maurita her family is endless, and i was guest in >> their house all 3 days. Highlight of it all was my first sleap in a >> real alcove. Mauritia and Kim had made everything so lovely, and >> their cooking was deliscious. >> Here i send you a link for some pictures of the event. >> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm >> I want to thank the whole family for their warmth and generousity. I >> got many lovely memories from that week end. I am in endless >> gratitute to them all. >> >> Christian Ludvig de Vollanges.......... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 11:42:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26GgOTr018151 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:42:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26GgQdA001328; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:42:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26Gfhfu042751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:41:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26GfOSH011112; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:41:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k26GfIKO010801 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:41:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 75033 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 16:41:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=bqrpS/tfyE+a0U49IKu03kOJEjuJraTVzJM06AJd2I+eP58EamCwdfJZsdaMQ2v9oXqaZ5ephVZ49dQ8885ort2Pol6sV0V656cqRyvFpGB5LjPwV7Wb0RV9WL0qpmGekbDq6j2pWP10vskm4huS/8kMg1jMHSyMtAYecTKaagE= ; Message-ID: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:41:02 PST Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:41:02 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: "h-costume@indra.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:42:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C6672.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and riding. I ride and own horses also. I also have made various articles of riding clothing and costumes for shows over the years (to keep it close to list topic). Although each individual is different, there seems to be a range of interests that most creative people share to one degree or another. For my part... horses, cats (or pets in general), costuming, reading, theatre, good movies, classical and traditional music, gardening, other artistically creative endeavors such as panting or some type of crafting, etc. And of course, the list always exceeds the amount of time available to pursue said interests. Just a little generalizing. ;-) Annette M --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 11:56:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Gu1kX018657 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:56:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Gu3Ng008154; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:56:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26GtiLZ045553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:55:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26GtclM026447; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:55:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.148]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k26GtYu8026202 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:55:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 14244 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 16:55:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=GJTmJQKZvEjjHbWAwxbaBCYVZEvOP1NATCVCFRbxkJ76ouF/plSvUE+T2NaDz0Iv97puPc7v1NkTdAo84uFuAPzDF3ksplwwAOTz55+i1GSqoapFexSTO+0DlQu9Dyf9SDJVAGS4EbdtA0+61kb6KM7CZq8mpqfqpj8xMFxrsQo= ; Message-ID: <20060306165529.14242.qmail@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:55:28 PST Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:55:28 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603061413.k26ECuit073654@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 222 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:56:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C69A3.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thank you for all the great responses! Now I know I can create some nice things that are going to be easy and a lot less expensive to care for. Might try washing that natural colored linen blouse too. The other direction this took reminds me of how I ruined a "dry clean only" jacket that was one of my favorites by following label directions. The fabric was fine - it was the lining material that shouldn't have been dry cleaned. It 'melted' and adhered to the fabric as it shrunk, creating a puckered and wrinkled affect that ruined the jacket. And aren't dry cleaners supposed to read labels. I know people aren't infallible, but the label on a skirt said clearly - dry clean only DO NOT PRESS - it came back fine many times, but the last time it got pressed, and a lovely skirt got turned into a limp and unattractive rag. It was just one incident however, and they are the best cleaners around. Annette M Message: 7 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:10:12 -0600 From: Leah L Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing > manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they > have to > test the garment in what ever method they recommend. Not that all manufacturer's actually _test_ the garments ... I think Tommy Hilfiger still holds the record for biggest fine from the FTC for inaccurate care labels. There's a fashion boutique that opened recently in Omaha that is already notorious among the local dry cleaners; the company I work for has told everyone to refuse garments from them because they cannot be dry cleaned regardless of the care tag. >For *most* garments, > regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to > label the > garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the > poor > results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to > spend > very little money researching other cleaning methods. I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To Be Held Responsible". Leah ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:32:57 -0500 From: "Lloyd Mitchell" Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) To: "Historical Costume" Message-ID: <000f01c64122$7c926420$935083d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" That has certainly been my take on it for years! The so called care label puts the blame on the owner or outside establishment if the garment fails to survive the cleaning. Besides the "Talon (zipper) ads, remember the Union Label (buy American!) ads when all the new fibers began to come out in the 1950s? Some of the American labels such as Jonathan Logan took great pride that you could depend on their products not to shrink or misshape in the wearing (and caring) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leah L Watts" To: Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > > One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing > > manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they > > have to > > test the garment in what ever method they recommend. > > Not that all manufacturer's actually _test_ the garments ... I think > Tommy Hilfiger still holds the record for biggest fine from the FTC for > inaccurate care labels. There's a fashion boutique that opened recently > in Omaha that is already notorious among the local dry cleaners; the > company I work for has told everyone to refuse garments from them because > they cannot be dry cleaned regardless of the care tag. > > >For *most* garments, > > regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to > > label the > > garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the > > poor > > results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to > > spend > > very little money researching other cleaning methods. > > I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" > was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To > Be Held Responsible". > > Leah > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:11:04 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) To: Historical Costume Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi-- I was a designer / patternmaker and technical designer in the garment industry for 24 years. Do not blame the manufacturer (the people who actually sew the garment) for the wording of care labels. Very often the people who make the garment follow what is demanded by the Customer (the people who order the garment from the manufacturer: Disney,. Walmart, Sears etc.) The customer gives the manufacturer a manual that gives phrases and the care label must be taken from that. The Federal Government also prevents the manufacturer from doing "preventative care labling": unless you know that a certain fabric will react by doing something (eg: pouring chlorine bleach on a swimwear fabric) you cannot say "do not bleach". The problem with this is that sometimes the customer insists on going the extra step in stupidity-- over the advice of the manufacturer. I once had an on-going agrument with Nordstroms about using non-chlorine bleach on a chiild's swimsuit. I lost. They insisted that the label say "non-chlorine bleach as needed". The fabric was done no favors with that! Don't blame the manufacturer, blame the people who place the order with the manufacturer. We have our own share of frustrations. (Don't get me started on off-shore manufacturing...) Yours- Monica Spence -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 8:33 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) That has certainly been my take on it for years! The so called care label puts the blame on the owner or outside establishment if the garment fails to survive the cleaning. Besides the "Talon (zipper) ads, remember the Union Label (buy American!) === message truncated === --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 13:03:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26I3M9Y020826 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:03:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26I3OTG006824; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:03:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26Hvdb4056328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:02:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26GxlHp030680; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:59:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26GxUJG030290 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:59:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.a0.3871e84c (2612) for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:59:17 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:59:17 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 222 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:03:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C796C.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/6/2006 11:57:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kahlara@yahoo.com writes: The other direction this took reminds me of how I ruined a "dry clean only" jacket that was one of my favorites by following label directions. The fabric was fine - it was the lining material that shouldn't have been dry cleaned. It 'melted' and adhered to the fabric as it shrunk, creating a puckered and wrinkled affect that ruined the jacket. And aren't dry cleaners supposed to read labels. I know people aren't infallible, but the label on a skirt said clearly - dry clean only DO NOT PRESS - it came back fine many times, but the last time it got pressed, and a lovely skirt got turned into a limp and unattractive rag. It was just one incident however, and they are the best cleaners around. If you are in the US, and your cleaner is a member of the Fabricare Institute, you can have them mediate if they indeed failed to follow the label directions. If the manufacturer mis-labeled the garment, your beef is with them. Ann Wass Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 13:25:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26IPid6021540 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:25:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26IPl0q016538; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:25:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26IPGVT060466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:25:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26IP5Wk018745; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:25:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26IOrTU018534 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:24:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AE680360; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:24:40 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.157 ([209.131.80.157] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 6 Mar 2006 13:24:37 -0500 Message-ID: <005901c6414b$8b48e240$9d5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:26:52 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:25:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C7EAB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO This is what I understood back in the '50s. The ads about 'non-shrinking/misshaping were placed by the WGWU, as you can still find their label in older garments. That was their hallmark about buying quality fabric. It seems that when Fashion (the customer/business ordering) took prescidence on the label, that quality began to slip. Not just in the fabric...but when outsourcing to save a union wage buck was becoming the norm...and the result is in one time wearing garments. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "monica spence" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 9:11 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > > Hi-- > I was a designer / patternmaker and technical designer in the garment > industry for 24 years. Do not blame the manufacturer (the people who > actually sew the garment) for the wording of care labels. Very often the > people who make the garment follow what is demanded by the Customer (the > people who order the garment from the manufacturer: Disney,. Walmart, Sears > etc.) The customer gives the manufacturer a manual that gives phrases and > the care label must be taken from that. The Federal Government also prevents > the manufacturer from doing "preventative care labling": unless you know > that a certain fabric will react by doing something (eg: pouring chlorine > bleach on a swimwear fabric) you cannot say "do not bleach". The problem > with this is that sometimes the customer insists on going the extra step in > stupidity-- over the advice of the manufacturer. I once had an on-going > agrument with Nordstroms about using non-chlorine bleach on a chiild's > swimsuit. I lost. They insisted that the label say "non-chlorine bleach as > needed". The fabric was done no favors with that! > > Don't blame the manufacturer, blame the people who place the order with the > manufacturer. We have our own share of frustrations. (Don't get me started > on off-shore manufacturing...) > > Yours- > Monica Spence > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 8:33 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > > > That has certainly been my take on it for years! The so called care label > puts the blame on the owner or outside establishment if the garment fails to > survive the cleaning. > > Besides the "Talon (zipper) ads, remember the Union Label (buy American!) > ads when all the new fibers began to come out in the 1950s? Some of the > American labels such as Jonathan Logan took great pride that you could > depend on their products not to shrink or misshape in the wearing (and > caring) > > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leah L Watts" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:10 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > > > > > One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing > > > manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they > > > have to > > > test the garment in what ever method they recommend. > > > > Not that all manufacturer's actually _test_ the garments ... I think > > Tommy Hilfiger still holds the record for biggest fine from the FTC for > > inaccurate care labels. There's a fashion boutique that opened recently > > in Omaha that is already notorious among the local dry cleaners; the > > company I work for has told everyone to refuse garments from them because > > they cannot be dry cleaned regardless of the care tag. > > > > >For *most* garments, > > > regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to > > > label the > > > garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the > > > poor > > > results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to > > > spend > > > very little money researching other cleaning methods. > > > > I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" > > was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To > > Be Held Responsible". > > > > Leah > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 13:48:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Im4pw022219 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:48:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Im7e0026181; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:48:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26Ilftg063359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:47:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26IleiW038373; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:47:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26Ilaol038218 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:47:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.1ff.11eb1f0c (15888) for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:47:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID83-3e10440c83bf1c4; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:47:28 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <6c257d3930e3b8d781043322de93d02f@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:47:26 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:48:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C83E7.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k26Im4pw022219 Status: RO Annette and others- Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? I'd hate to not get feedback from all the historical costumers on the big list, but I don't want to annoy the rest of you with "horse specific" questions. Is it Ok to post with the type of Subject line as in this post to alert the rest of you that it may not be of interest to the rest of the group? I'd certainly like to make my riding outfits as authentic looking as possible given the fabrics and the circumstances we are faced with today. (No groom to take our horse after we ride or take complete care of our horse while we are getting ready to ride or while we socialize after riding. Ahhh... the good old days! But... I would have been in the peasant class, as I am in real life!) Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Kahlara wrote: > Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem > to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as > the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. > > I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and > riding. I ride and own horses also. I also have made various articles > of riding clothing and costumes for shows over the years (to keep it > close to list topic). > > Although each individual is different, there seems to be a range of > interests that most creative people share to one degree or another. > For my part... > > horses, cats (or pets in general), costuming, reading, theatre, good > movies, classical and traditional music, gardening, other artistically > creative endeavors such as panting or some type of crafting, etc. And > of course, the list always exceeds the amount of time available to > pursue said interests. > > Just a little generalizing. ;-) > > Annette M > > > --------------------------------- > Brings words and photos together (easily) with > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 14:05:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26J50kI022641 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:05:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26J53jV000561; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:05:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26J4awR069830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:04:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26J4NL1055775; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:04:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26J4IYg055579 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:04:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCA3A3D32 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:04:04 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <440C87E1.6090209@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:05:05 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:05:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C87DF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Leah L Watts wrote: > > I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" > was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To > Be Held Responsible". I picked up a gorgeous fully beaded and sequinned evening gown at a local thrift shop with just such a tag. It reeked of "dancing all night in a smoky club" but for $4 I took a chance. Laid it in a tub of cold water with mild soap and just kind of swished it gently and it came out beautifully. I'm all ready for the palace ball, I just need my glass slippers and the invitation from the prince.... Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 14:24:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26JOgWR023298 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:24:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26JOjJ6008982; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:24:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26JNB77077537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:23:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26JNA2i072194; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:23:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26JN2X3072045 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:23:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from camelothorse@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=NRcXHzVhLzGJz532XQqEsQRb6+YOm9ScwngnxbGt4g3FV2ufNr8POr54VseKw61b; h=Received:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Organization:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.230.81.216] (helo=camelot01) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FGL56-00036I-3d for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:09:20 -0500 From: "Diane Maynard" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:09:35 -0600 Organization: Camelot Horse Center Message-ID: <000f01c64151$82ba6d50$ee1be604@camelot01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcZBTpkwlplGe3bnRqyNAnk/amxoFgAALGQQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 In-Reply-To: <6c257d3930e3b8d781043322de93d02f@aol.com> X-ELNK-Trace: 7d3e56efc2551607917237dadff7bf594d2b10475b571120c7da288446c34911d20a2a183fe9724ab908f1eb8c6dcd58350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.230.81.216 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:24:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C8C7D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO -----Original Message----- Annette and others- Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? Personally, I am right there with you on the costuming for riders and horses. I own a horse farm that does classical riding (Dressage, Combined Training, Jumpers) but, I do SCA and other historical costuming as well. I compete on horseback in the SCA with my full Elizabethan gowns, and have made Baroque riding attire for other rider's costuming classes. I have decided that I HAVE to have a riding gown like the one in the movie "Brotherhood of the Wolf". I do not know where I am going to wear it but, if I have to, I will sponsor a party or event at my own farm in order to wear it. I already have a gorgeous saddle---just need a beautiful period bridle for my big grey warmblood. Diane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 15:28:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26KSKCa025076 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:28:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26KSMY1005615; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:28:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26KRTGj005372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:27:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26KRNf5028846; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:27:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26KRIwe028784 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:27:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55c7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.199]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E3CCBA50080 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:27:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c6415c$6d102890$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:27:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] =?iso-8859-1?q?soir=E9e_d=B4hiver_more_pictures?= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:28:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C9B66.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, Shameless of me, i uploaded the first clickable pictures with the ones of myself. Its so seldom i had any pictures of me wearing the blue suit, and also my humble mundane. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver3.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 17:16:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26MGKBn031128 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:16:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26MGMc9019914; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:16:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26MFiKA030788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:15:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26MFaPf029660; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:15:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26MFV5X029496 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:15:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E66EEA1F78 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:15:25 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <440CB4BC.7000407@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:16:28 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] CostumeCon X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:16:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CB4B6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I was wondering who all from the list was thinking of going. Or who would be lecturing there. Anyone? I notice that there's still next to no info available on the website, just a couple months out now, and I was wondering if I should be worried. Or do these things always pull themselves together at the last minute? I can already find thorough information on other events much later in the summer and I'm getting concerned because I have no idea what to expect from CostumeCon. I'm thinking I ought to reserve a hotel room pretty soon, if I'm going. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 17:42:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26MgYtl000683 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:42:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Mgamc028354; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:42:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26MgG9c034234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:42:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26MgEIX053785; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:42:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k26Mg8ND053654 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:42:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 69511 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 22:42:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=BnTEtHGYYay2KD9wRBYWZj2ePvIKkY2BuNofrTf1x9/BK/j+pbqKyNSCEQcFLSBxQpWScL3qH5c5yV/qKBT3TJSzOrbFbtctsuAZZKZu32o/CMxPKla2HykSNOAbMQd3C0wlicnaX4uOwzLF7kWTpbn5Jpd+VQJEfeAdP8Jnp+Y= ; Message-ID: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [87.244.70.182] by web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:42:03 GMT Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:42:03 +0000 (GMT) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6c257d3930e3b8d781043322de93d02f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:42:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CBADC.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Susan Data-Samtak wrote: Annette and others- Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? I'd hate to not get feedback from all the historical costumers on the big list, but I don't want to annoy the rest of you with "horse specific" questions. Much snippage ! But... I would have been in the peasant class, as I am in real life!) Susan snip On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Kahlara wrote: > Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem > to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as > the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. > > I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and > riding. I ride and own horses also.Much snippage> > Just a little generalizing. ;-) COMMENT Annette, Susan, and others - according to Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon, - he estimates that of the entire SCA membership, possibly only 10% can actually ride, - and fewer still own their own horses. Presumeably the percentage of "riders" against "pedestrians" is much the same in most other re-enactment groups, large and small - Roman, Dark Ages, medieval, English Civil War, Frederick the Great, Marlborough, 1776, Napoleonic Wars, Crimean War, US Civil War, Zulu & Ashanti Wars, and Anglo-Boer War, &c, &c. This is a huge percentage difference from the medieval period covered by the SCA when one would suppose that the majority of the population above Freedman-Status could ride, - and of course true also for those of the rest of us interested in any other Period Re-enactment up to and including about 1914 Gregorian. There must be so much specialised "Equestrian Lore" of costume, of bardings, of other tacks - of which we are unaware, - it would seem likely to be a subject of considerable interest to those of us who don't "ride" horses in these Modern Middle Ages. For example....... The "riding side-saddle, riding astride"-debate has it's own fascinations - Chaucer's illustrators clearly show the female Pilgrims riding astride - but I have read comments confusing the issue, by moderns, flatly stating that even during the 15th Century, all women rode fully-side-saddle, or sat behind a Male servant. Did this call for divided skirts? or did women wear hosen under their skirts so as to be able to ride astride yet keep their modesty? At what Time point and in which Kingdoms did it become "immodest" and frowned-upon for women to ride astride? I would support such a subgroup, and kibitz in the hope of learning much new information. Julian, in Old Jersey --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 17:46:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26MkV1p001394 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:46:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26MkYYB029582; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:46:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26MkHXh034944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:46:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26MkHR3057805; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:46:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26MkDTg057716 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:46:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15888 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:17:19 -0600 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:17:17 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon In-Reply-To: <440CB4BC.7000407@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:46:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CBBCA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Mon, 6 Mar 2006, Dawn wrote: > I was wondering who all from the list was thinking of going. Or who > would be lecturing there. Anyone? Alas, not me this year. It's within driving distance, but bad timing. > I notice that there's still next to no info available on the website, > just a couple months out now, and I was wondering if I should be > worried. Or do these things always pull themselves together at the > last minute? I can already find thorough information on other events > much later in the summer and I'm getting concerned because I have no > idea what to expect from CostumeCon. I'm thinking I ought to reserve a > hotel room pretty soon, if I'm going. You might want to join the International Costumers Guild's discussion group at yahoogroups; I bet you can find answers there, or at least the people there can tell you whether there's a better website somewhere. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ICG-D/ --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 18:08:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26N8FAP002263 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:08:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26N8I52003680; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:08:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26N7t62037906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:07:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26N7rVo078296; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:07:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52111.mail.yahoo.com (web52111.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.114]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k26N7okI078130 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:07:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 31657 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 23:07:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=PIOtQJxtT6sIe0Wa2/CZlK48gL7615kyizTl5w9P09X67k/G+SV4svdxmJEpMpVA5aVcK1pCw5lSWPSuDEjWl4otuWfGP29Hcj4qdUFJN2yeUSShENIrJmGHlRqAGqqwenJji//xOQBhaARfxAICmSpYHHA4cQBfddX2J/UI4s8= ; Message-ID: <20060306230728.31655.qmail@web52111.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:07:28 EST Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:07:28 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Maternity corsets - trivia X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:08:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CC0E2.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I know I had seen some around. I tripped on this page: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Maternity_corset Mostly later eras from where I was asking about originally, but a neat selection of how it was handled. Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 18:29:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26NTI1o002878 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:29:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26NTLHU010272; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:29:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26NSQQA041384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:28:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26NSMEs097177; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:28:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26NSHjT096991 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:28:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.25.7246b023 (16110) for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:27:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID122-3eee440cc573d0; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:27:48 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:27:46 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:29:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CC5D1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k26NTI1o002878 Status: RO From what I've been able to find out: he short version of Astride vs Aside: WOMEN rode any way they could-if they were able to get a horse to ride. They either walked or maybe were able to catch a ride in a wagon. LADIES, on the other hand, adhered to strict rules of conduct and kept their legs together for propriety. I know there are pictures of females riding astride as well as sideways with their back parallel to the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the horse's left side. (Did I make this perfectly unclear?) Like sitting in a chair. Others rode sideways behind a man. Some even had a board to place their feet on. Often the horse was led by a footman, controlling the horse. It was thought that ladies couldn't control a large beast like a horse. Women also rode "palfreys"- gaited horses, also called "ambling" horses. Supposedly, the Paso Fino Breed, (my horse is a PF) has the palfrey in its background. I've also heard that "women's legs aren't strong enough to control a horse" if riding astride. Ironically, I've heard that women have stronger thighs, and have better muscle shape TO control a horse if ridden astride. Go figure! I ride aside, astride and with no saddle at all. Bareback is the most comfortable for the horse and for me. My Mac's back is round and padded with that smooth gait- can't beat it! Saddle or not. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 5:42 PM, julian wilson wrote: > Susan Data-Samtak wrote: > Annette and others- > > Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? > I'd hate to not get feedback from all the historical costumers on the > big list, but I don't want to annoy the rest of you with "horse > specific" questions. Much snippage ! But... I would have been in > the peasant class, as I am in real life!) > > Susan > > snip > On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Kahlara wrote: > >> Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem >> to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as >> the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. >> >> I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and >> riding. I ride and own horses also.Much snippage> >> Just a little generalizing. ;-) COMMENT > Annette, Susan, and others - > according to Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon, - he estimates that of > the entire SCA membership, possibly only 10% can actually ride, - and > fewer still own their own horses. > Presumeably the percentage of "riders" against "pedestrians" is > much the same in most other re-enactment groups, large and small - > Roman, Dark Ages, medieval, English Civil War, Frederick the Great, > Marlborough, 1776, Napoleonic Wars, Crimean War, US Civil War, Zulu & > Ashanti Wars, and Anglo-Boer War, &c, &c. > > This is a huge percentage difference from the medieval period > covered by the SCA when one would suppose that the majority of the > population above Freedman-Status could ride, - and of course true also > for those of the rest of us interested in any other Period > Re-enactment up to and including about 1914 Gregorian. > There must be so much specialised "Equestrian Lore" of costume, of > bardings, of other tacks - of which we are unaware, - it would seem > likely to be a subject of considerable interest to those of us who > don't "ride" horses in these Modern Middle Ages. For example....... > The "riding side-saddle, riding astride"-debate has it's own > fascinations - Chaucer's illustrators clearly show the female Pilgrims > riding astride - but I have read comments confusing the issue, by > moderns, flatly stating that even during the 15th Century, all women > rode fully-side-saddle, or sat behind a Male servant. Did this call > for divided skirts? or did women wear hosen under their skirts so as > to be able to ride astride yet keep their modesty? At what Time point > and in which Kingdoms did it become "immodest" and frowned-upon for > women to ride astride? > I would support such a subgroup, and kibitz in the hope of learning > much new information. > Julian, > in Old Jersey > > > > > > --------------------------------- > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new > Yahoo! Security Centre. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 20:10:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k271AluY006323 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:10:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k271AoHd007924; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:10:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k271AOwR055560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:10:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k271AI2e087850; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3b.socket.net [216.106.88.186]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k271AE6G087739 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:10:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E4AA637035 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:10:08 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:10:19 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20060306014800.C1BC46F3@resin05.mta.everyone.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k271AE6G087739 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:10:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CDD9A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >From the sound of the story, an Alexanderian cap is a dowager's cap. What I have been told of dowager's caps (take this with a cup o' salt) is that they are similar to the Whistler's mother cap but slightly different and fancier (lacey?). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 20:47:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k271l7X1007700 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:47:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k271lAFO017868; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:47:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k271ko18060556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:46:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k271kgtG017145; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:46:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k271kZlA016995 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:46:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-McAfee: scanned Received: from [66.43.209.43] (HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with SMTP id 904616585 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:46:34 -0600 Message-ID: <058201c64189$09326360$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:47:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:47:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CE61E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO LADIES, on the other hand, adhered to strict rules of conduct and kept their legs together for propriety. I know there are pictures of females riding astride as well as sideways with their back parallel to the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the horse's left side. ------------------------- I've never seen anything depicting this style of riding. Links ? I can see where a footman would have to lead a person seated like this, as it would be a little like driving a car from the backseat. This position would put the woman more in the class of cargo, rather than "riding". It would be a form of transportation similar to sitting in a wagon, I'm sure. Which is not the same at all as riding side-saddle. I can't speak to specific time periods but I know I have read descriptions of women wearing breeches or jodhpurs under a "false" skirt that looked and functioned like a skirt when walking, but had a buttoned panel associated with function under saddle. Also, with the volume of skirts and the layers under the skirts, I can't see where modesty would be a problem when riding sidesaddle. The position is similar sitting on a barstool with the right leg hooked on a high rung, and the left foot very close to the floor. Mounting the horse in public would probably take a *lot* of private practice and a very steady horse, but I'm sure it could be accomplished w/o displaying much more than some inner hem. When horses were primary modes of transportation, mounting blocks were available just about everywhere and that would help a lot! I would join an equestrian clothing group! Denise _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 21:19:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k272JphO009072 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:19:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k272Jr15027386; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:19:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k272ILaw065357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:18:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k272IHHN046418; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:18:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k272IDcs046358 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:18:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC469890770; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 02:13:26 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:18:16 -0800 Message-ID: <002301c6418d$65610890$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k272IDcs046358 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 21:19:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CEDC9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >From my reading, I've come across the term "pillion", which I always understood to mean behind the "main" rider, but never knew if it meant sideways or astride. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Susan Data-Samtak Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:28 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" From what I've been able to find out: he short version of Astride vs Aside: WOMEN rode any way they could-if they were able to get a horse to ride. They either walked or maybe were able to catch a ride in a wagon. LADIES, on the other hand, adhered to strict rules of conduct and kept their legs together for propriety. I know there are pictures of females riding astride as well as sideways with their back parallel to the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the horse's left side. (Did I make this perfectly unclear?) Like sitting in a chair. Others rode sideways behind a man. Some even had a board to place their feet on. Often the horse was led by a footman, controlling the horse. It was thought that ladies couldn't control a large beast like a horse. Women also rode "palfreys"- gaited horses, also called "ambling" horses. Supposedly, the Paso Fino Breed, (my horse is a PF) has the palfrey in its background. I've also heard that "women's legs aren't strong enough to control a horse" if riding astride. Ironically, I've heard that women have stronger thighs, and have better muscle shape TO control a horse if ridden astride. Go figure! I ride aside, astride and with no saddle at all. Bareback is the most comfortable for the horse and for me. My Mac's back is round and padded with that smooth gait- can't beat it! Saddle or not. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 5:42 PM, julian wilson wrote: > Susan Data-Samtak wrote: > Annette and others- > > Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? > I'd hate to not get feedback from all the historical costumers on the > big list, but I don't want to annoy the rest of you with "horse > specific" questions. Much snippage ! But... I would have been in the > peasant class, as I am in real life!) > > Susan > > snip > On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Kahlara wrote: > >> Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations >> seem to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as >> well as the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. >> >> I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and >> riding. I ride and own horses also.Much snippage> Just a little >> generalizing. ;-) COMMENT > Annette, Susan, and others - > according to Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon, - he estimates that of > the entire SCA membership, possibly only 10% can actually ride, - and > fewer still own their own horses. > Presumeably the percentage of "riders" against "pedestrians" is > much the same in most other re-enactment groups, large and small - > Roman, Dark Ages, medieval, English Civil War, Frederick the Great, > Marlborough, 1776, Napoleonic Wars, Crimean War, US Civil War, Zulu & > Ashanti Wars, and Anglo-Boer War, &c, &c. > > This is a huge percentage difference from the medieval period > covered by the SCA when one would suppose that the majority of the > population above Freedman-Status could ride, - and of course true also > for those of the rest of us interested in any other Period > Re-enactment up to and including about 1914 Gregorian. > There must be so much specialised "Equestrian Lore" of costume, of > bardings, of other tacks - of which we are unaware, - it would seem > likely to be a subject of considerable interest to those of us who > don't "ride" horses in these Modern Middle Ages. For example....... > The "riding side-saddle, riding astride"-debate has it's own > fascinations - Chaucer's illustrators clearly show the female Pilgrims > riding astride - but I have read comments confusing the issue, by > moderns, flatly stating that even during the 15th Century, all women > rode fully-side-saddle, or sat behind a Male servant. Did this call > for divided skirts? or did women wear hosen under their skirts so as > to be able to ride astride yet keep their modesty? At what Time point > and in which Kingdoms did it become "immodest" and frowned-upon for > women to ride astride? > I would support such a subgroup, and kibitz in the hope of learning > much new information. > Julian, > in Old Jersey > > > > > > --------------------------------- > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new > Yahoo! Security Centre. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 22:34:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k273YRX6011136 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:34:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k273YMQQ016576; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:34:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k273WXhK074457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:32:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k273WSqM003968; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:32:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k273WNc7003906 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:32:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=slLYtYhYU+dBk/WFy0xgt7sIwL+9rxOeaYdXX1w0LKNyQHU7Xi2ziRqhZdCCJbj/; h=Received:Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.125.98.127] (helo=[172.16.1.11]) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FGSvu-0005cj-QX for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:32:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@igc.org@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <007f01c64073$922dce50$6601a8c0@PYC64> References: <007f01c64073$922dce50$6601a8c0@PYC64> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:20:39 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22ca44108260c305c17d5f12cb6dee14ceb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.125.98.127 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:34:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CFF3E.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 10:40 AM -0600 3/5/06, Betsy Marshall wrote: >My information is that dry cleaning helps preserve the fabric treatments >used by the manufacturer- either fabric or clothing processes; so fabric of >wool, linen, silk or combinations thereof, _can_ be washed, just be prepared >for the size/hand/texture to change. (Personally I toss it all in the washer >on cold and let the chips, er, scraps fall where they may.) My philosophy is to give the finished garment a cleaning treatment that's one step gentler than the washing I gave the fabric before I cut it out. I pretty much machine wash all yardage as soon as I get it home and the edges zigzagged. This has worked a lot better for some things than others. I've not had any problems with linen or silk, but I've learned to be more careful about wool, especially about tumble drying it. I had a wool Elizabethan gown (and I can now boast that it was custom-made for me by Margo -- yes, THAT Margo, of Margo's patterns ) and she washed my wool yardage on hot, _three_ times before she cut it out. And I washed it on cold and dried it on barely lukewarm, and it DID shrink, almost three inches in length after half a dozen washings. :( -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 22:55:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k273tfV6011735 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:55:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k273tivh022505; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:55:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k273tSdC076900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:55:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k273tQVw021042; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:55:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k273tNbl020987 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:55:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1FGTI92H2P-000204; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:55:22 -0500 Message-ID: <014f01c6419a$f9a580a0$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:55:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Funny Nail Polish Colors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:55:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D0440.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k273tfV6011735 Status: RO I am always looking for funny color names. OPI has some 2006 nail polish colors names! Check these out: Reds: *** I'm Not Really a Waitress *** Nice Color, Eh? *** O'Hare & Nails Look Great! *** SoHo Nice to Meet You *** You Rock-apulco Red *** My Chihuahua Bites! (my favorite) To view all their color names go to http://www.opi.com/ Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 03:02:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2782vOs029979 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 03:02:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27830kM022028; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 03:03:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2782VRi002213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 01:02:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2782QEd094407; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 01:02:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2782J6Y094222 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 01:02:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.192]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060307080212.HBJE170.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:02:12 +1300 Received: from michaela ([219.89.183.2]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060307080212.MSMH14226.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:02:12 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.0/275]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:02:21 +1300 Message-ID: <00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:02:19 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sorry for this, testing but also latest projects if you are bored. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 03:03:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D3E34.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I haven't had my last several emails I posted to the list, and a few before that were delayed by several days, not just a few hours. I was wondering if others are having the same issue. Then I can narrow down where the problem might be. I may just be getting the mail delayed to me, I have no idea when they are getting to other people. I noticed I had a warning about messages bouncing a while back on some list and I think it was this one (which is mad as I have had constant uptime with this email address and if I'm away will change to digest mode.) Anyway, if this does go through (9pm Tuesday March 7 NZ time which is +12 hours GMT) I have recently updated my website with costumes I haven't linked from my main page before. Latest projects are: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/phantom/wishing.htm Replica of the Blue Dress from the Aussie productions of Phantom of the Opera. http://costumes.glittersweet.com/dracula/2mina.htm Red dress from the 1992 movie of Dracula (I also put up a subsection for other people's recreations.) http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/k/2cleves.htm Bruyn inspired gown from the Cleves/Cologne region. I have finally settled on a sort of colour scheme;) I'm also working on another fully pleated skirt from the 1880s but have yet to decide on the style of bodice. I have lots of fabric for a few interchangeble styles actually. Twiddling my fingers til my posts show up.. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: 6/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:10:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DALCL028786 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:10:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DAOr0012670; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:10:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27D9gww058448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:09:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27D9cx2013667; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:09:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k273S3wB000500 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:28:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from camelothorse@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=fNIiWbQ/NuoxVK1FJtdHszBYZj3+fYC3eOLKdx4mDAHbc5mSbdu+fVKv1xSKWuZu; h=Received:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Organization:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.230.93.103] (helo=camelot01) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FGSrh-00050B-Ba for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:28:03 -0500 From: "Diane Maynard" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:28:18 -0600 Organization: Camelot Horse Center Message-ID: <002c01c64197$2e9cc150$ee1be604@camelot01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcZBlw9sJ32R47dhQPu6h3WTaU7KEA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-ELNK-Trace: 7d3e56efc2551607917237dadff7bf594d2b10475b571120a8d4a2faead544eea213da6ae0316c1eddbc2fbdd75cb04f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.230.93.103 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:10:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D8640.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I am going to attempt to put in short version a very long subject------First of all, the Victorian idea of modesty is just that---Victorian. Most periods before this time frame did not have the "modesty" that we refer to and women (and Ladies) that rode and controlled their own horse would ride astride. Women that were traveling but, did not "Ride" would travel by Pillion saddle. This is a saddle that sits the rider totally side ways on the horse with a platform under the feet. There are numerous references, paintings, and tapestries that depict this style of travel for women. When traveling like this, there is usually a groom to lead and control the horse that the woman is on top of. By the 16 th century, Catherine de Medici began to ride "Side-Saddle" for hunting. She actually took her husband's hunting saddle and threw her leg over the front horn. By doing this, she was actually still facing forward while both legs were on the same side. Elizabeth I copied her style and also rode "side-saddle". There is what is considered one of Elizabeth I 's side saddles in one of the London museums. Although considered quite an accomplished rider and well verse in hunting, when doing a parade or any public display, Queen Elizabeth I was normally being led to insure nothing could happen to endanger her. There are also accounts of Queen Elizabeth I wearing her Farthingale and that they were so large as to dwarf the mount she was riding. There are numerous portraits of Ladies and Queens riding astride through the 17 th century. It is not until the Victorian time frame that it becomes extremely improper for a Lady to ride astride. Why ride side saddle? Clothes. One can wear a skirt with a much smaller circumference if they are riding side saddle. To make a skirt that looks good and covers the rider's leg when riding astride takes a minimum of 7 yards. I can make a side saddle skirt in 4 yards. In case no one can tell----I find the history of the side saddle fascinating and I also ride side-saddle. I also used to give jumping demos side-saddle and I ride the SCA Equestrian games side saddle. I have run rings, hit quintains, etc. all in my side saddle and wearing my full Elizabethan gowns (and won). I currently own two modern jumping side saddles and one 1846 antique western side saddle that I bought from the family it was originally made for. Sorry----my post got longer than I anticipated, Diane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:11:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DB5ue028816 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:11:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DB8B6018902; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:11:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27DAuKB058607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:10:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DAuaY014685; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:10:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k275Bd0e076623 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:11:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.194]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060307051133.ZCGA6239.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:11:33 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.183.2]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060307051132.BGNP1416.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:11:32 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.0/275]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 18:11:41 +1300 Message-ID: <008e01c641a5$9e8e6820$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <058201c64189$09326360$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:11:37 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=14% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:11:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D866C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > sideways with their back parallel to > the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the > horse's left side. > I've never seen anything depicting this style of riding. Links ? I can see > where a footman would have to lead a person seated like this, as it would be > a little like driving a car from the backseat. This position would put the > woman more in the class of cargo, rather than "riding". It would be a form > of transportation similar to sitting in a wagon, I'm sure. I have some images from 16thC woodcuts, and I think the tapestry of Maximilian shows Maria of Hungary riding like this (though the view is from the back so it's a bit hard to tell.) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ammanwomanonhorsebackholdingfan.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ammonmanandwomanhavingaconversationonhorseback.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ammonwomanonhoresback.jpg Sorry I don't have the folder public, so if the links are broken try this: http://photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ Then pasting the file names individually: ammanwomanonhorsebackholdingfan.jpg ammonmanandwomanhavingaconversationonhorseback.jpg ammonwomanonhoresback.jpg Certainly a less than comfortable ride if you want to face forward! michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: 6/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:11:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DBwdN028851 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:11:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DC1DW017557; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:12:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27DBPKB058667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:11:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DBP97015046; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:11:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k275MWns084231 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:22:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2e0.3761d9e (16109) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:22:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed440d188f157; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 00:22:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <002301c6418d$65610890$0200a8c0@bob3pc> References: <002301c6418d$65610890$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Message-Id: <3d2cb68025b67a00970094378e579a7d@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:22:22 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:12:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D86A1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k27DBwdN028851 Status: RO Pillion was sitting sideways on a cushion of some type behind the man, who was in control of the horse. If a Lady were led, she could be sitting sideways with a backrest and a footboard (planchette) for her feet to rest on. No stirrup (s). Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 9:18 PM, Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: >> From my reading, I've come across the term "pillion", which I always > understood to mean behind the "main" rider, but never knew if it meant > sideways or astride. > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On > Behalf Of Susan Data-Samtak > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:28 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > > > From what I've been able to find out: he short version of Astride vs > Aside: > > WOMEN rode any way they could-if they were able to get a horse to ride. > They either walked or maybe were able to catch a ride in a wagon. > > LADIES, on the other hand, adhered to strict rules of conduct and kept > their legs together for propriety. I know there are pictures of > females riding astride as well as sideways with their back parallel to > the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the > horse's left side. (Did I make this perfectly unclear?) Like sitting in > a chair. Others rode sideways behind a man. Some even had a board to > place their feet on. Often the horse was led by a footman, controlling > the horse. It was thought that ladies couldn't control a large beast > like a horse. > > Women also rode "palfreys"- gaited horses, also called "ambling" > horses. Supposedly, the Paso Fino Breed, (my horse is a PF) has the > palfrey in its background. > > I've also heard that "women's legs aren't strong enough to control a > horse" if riding astride. Ironically, I've heard that women have > stronger thighs, and have better muscle shape TO control a horse if > ridden astride. Go figure! > > I ride aside, astride and with no saddle at all. Bareback is the most > comfortable for the horse and for me. My Mac's back is round and > padded with that smooth gait- can't beat it! Saddle or not. > > > Susan > > "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel > too > fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" > by > Louis L'Amour > > On Mar 6, 2006, at 5:42 PM, julian wilson wrote: > >> Susan Data-Samtak wrote: >> Annette and others- >> >> Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? >> I'd hate to not get feedback from all the historical costumers on the >> big list, but I don't want to annoy the rest of you with "horse >> specific" questions. Much snippage ! But... I would have been in the >> peasant class, as I am in real life!) >> >> Susan >> >> snip >> On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Kahlara wrote: >> >>> Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations >>> seem to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as >>> well as the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. >>> >>> I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and >>> riding. I ride and own horses also.Much snippage> Just a little >>> generalizing. ;-) COMMENT >> Annette, Susan, and others - >> according to Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon, - he estimates that of >> the entire SCA membership, possibly only 10% can actually ride, - and >> fewer still own their own horses. >> Presumeably the percentage of "riders" against "pedestrians" is >> much the same in most other re-enactment groups, large and small - >> Roman, Dark Ages, medieval, English Civil War, Frederick the Great, >> Marlborough, 1776, Napoleonic Wars, Crimean War, US Civil War, Zulu & >> Ashanti Wars, and Anglo-Boer War, &c, &c. >> >> This is a huge percentage difference from the medieval period >> covered by the SCA when one would suppose that the majority of the >> population above Freedman-Status could ride, - and of course true also >> for those of the rest of us interested in any other Period >> Re-enactment up to and including about 1914 Gregorian. >> There must be so much specialised "Equestrian Lore" of costume, of >> bardings, of other tacks - of which we are unaware, - it would seem >> likely to be a subject of considerable interest to those of us who >> don't "ride" horses in these Modern Middle Ages. For example....... >> The "riding side-saddle, riding astride"-debate has it's own >> fascinations - Chaucer's illustrators clearly show the female Pilgrims >> riding astride - but I have read comments confusing the issue, by >> moderns, flatly stating that even during the 15th Century, all women >> rode fully-side-saddle, or sat behind a Male servant. Did this call >> for divided skirts? or did women wear hosen under their skirts so as >> to be able to ride astride yet keep their modesty? At what Time point >> and in which Kingdoms did it become "immodest" and frowned-upon for >> women to ride astride? >> I would support such a subgroup, and kibitz in the hope of learning >> much new information. >> Julian, >> in Old Jersey >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new >> Yahoo! Security Centre. >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:17:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DHgrI029108 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:17:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DHjOF015260; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:17:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27DBm8Q058701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:11:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DBm8E015412; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:11:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k275juK6099842 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:45:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.273.6e9fdc6 (16100) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:45:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID114-3ee4440d1e0a297; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 00:45:47 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <058201c64189$09326360$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <058201c64189$09326360$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> Message-Id: <53a0929df06dbb16543d77be6af91aff@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:45:46 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:17:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D87F9.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k27DHgrI029108 Status: RO Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 8:47 PM, Land of Oz wrote: > LADIES, on the other hand, adhered to strict rules of conduct and kept > their legs together for propriety. I know there are pictures of > females riding astride as well as > > sideways with their back parallel to > the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the > horse's left side. > ------------------------- > > I've never seen anything depicting this style of riding. Links ? I > can see where a footman would have to lead a person seated like this, > as it would be a little like driving a car from the backseat. This > position would put the woman more in the class of cargo, rather than > "riding". It would be a form of transportation similar to sitting in a > wagon, I'm sure. Exactly. A Lady wasn't "able" to do anything without a man to help. As far as a link- anyone with medieval knowledge have a sketch showing this? > > Which is not the same at all as riding side-saddle. I can't speak to > specific time periods but I know I have read descriptions of women > wearing breeches or jodhpurs under a "false" skirt that looked and > functioned like a skirt when walking, but had a buttoned panel > associated with function under saddle. The Safety Apron was invented over a century ago. I have seen a garment that is a "transition" from full skirt to the modern (Safety) apron. The modern apron is only long enough to cover your backside while seated in the sidesaddle. The "skirt" part is shaped with a dart or curved seam to accommodate the upraised knee around the upper pommel. The rest of the skirt is long, to just reveal the ankle, when on horseback. When dismounted, the rider buttons the long skirt up, sweeping it around her butt, then buttoning it on the right side. this effectively pulls the excess fabric from where it is not necessary to where it is definitely necessary, on foot. All bases are covered. > > Also, with the volume of skirts and the layers under the skirts, I > can't see where modesty would be a problem when riding sidesaddle. > The position is similar sitting on a barstool with the right leg > hooked on a high rung, and the left foot very close to the floor. > Mounting the horse in public would probably take a *lot* of private > practice and a very steady horse, but I'm sure it could be > accomplished w/o displaying much more than some inner hem. When horses > were primary modes of transportation, mounting blocks were available > just about everywhere and that would help a lot! The "propriety point" is that a LADY did not spread her legs apart. LADIES had grooms and footmen who did "everything" for them, except ride! A LADY merely appeared and mounted. Rode, then dismounted. As I understand it, "street clothing" were used for riding until around the 18th century. I know that riding trowsers could be a part of a Victorian habit. At this time, the skirt volume was becoming streamlined. The riding habit is very plain and severe in style. It is often referred to as "mannish". Later, the safety apron evolved. Here is a web site that shows some of the changes over time. http://www.hoosierladiesaside.com/habits.html also http://www.victorianladiesaside.com/gallery/ Mostly US Civil War, North, South and Civilian impressions. As I mentioned, we make the clothing to reflect the times but we are eminently aware that this Is the 21st Century. Safety first when riding sidesaddle. We usually don't have a groom to do all the work associated with "horsekeeping". We must change from LADY to WOMAN, from upper class to common person- in a flash- then back, again. > > I would join an equestrian clothing group! > Denise > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:35:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DZaDA029984 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:35:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DZdg7022064; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:35:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27DY5HC061050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:34:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DY3Kl032661; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:34:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DY15i032508 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:34:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id ABB80330; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:33:44 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.141 ([209.131.80.141] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 7 Mar 2006 08:33:41 -0500 Message-ID: <004301c641ec$11410940$8d5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> <440C87E1.6090209@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:35:56 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:35:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D8C2B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ain't modern fabrics a wonder? Early in my collecting career, I spent days mending and shoring up of a fragile georgette to get it to a wearable state (plainly rescued from the burn barrel). it was a wonderful pale peach color ornamented with tiny silver beads and sequins. When I had done all I could to give it one more outing I thought I would just dip it in the sink to freshen it. Ten minutes later I returned to rinse it and all that remained of the lovely design was the beads. (No one had yet told me that sequins from just about before WW2 were made of gelatin! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > Leah L Watts wrote: > > > > > I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" > > was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To > > Be Held Responsible". > > I picked up a gorgeous fully beaded and sequinned evening gown at a > local thrift shop with just such a tag. It reeked of "dancing all night > in a smoky club" but for $4 I took a chance. Laid it in a tub of cold > water with mild soap and just kind of swished it gently and it came out > beautifully. > > I'm all ready for the palace ball, I just need my glass slippers and the > invitation from the prince.... > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:52:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Dqexb030638 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:52:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Dqhd4029799; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:52:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27Dpwt9063225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:51:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DptoH047678; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:51:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27Dpq1m047610 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:51:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.173.237.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.173.237]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FGcbK-0004A8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:51:47 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> <00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <48C28618-ADE2-11DA-956B-0030656EBF34@mindspring.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorry for this, testing but also latest projects if you are bored. Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:57:15 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:52:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D902B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I wanted to take a look at these costumes, but my server can't seem to find your server! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Mar 7, 2006, at 3:02 AM, michaela wrote: > I haven't had my last several emails I posted to the list, and a few > before > that were delayed by several days, not just a few hours. I was > wondering if > others are having the same issue. Then I can narrow down where the > problem > might be. I may just be getting the mail delayed to me, I have no idea > when > they are getting to other people. > > I noticed I had a warning about messages bouncing a while back on some > list > and I think it was this one (which is mad as I have had constant > uptime with > this email address and if I'm away will change to digest mode.) > > Anyway, if this does go through (9pm Tuesday March 7 NZ time which is > +12 > hours GMT) I have recently updated my website with costumes I haven't > linked > from my main page before. > > Latest projects are: > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/phantom/wishing.htm > Replica of the Blue Dress from the Aussie productions of Phantom of the > Opera. > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/dracula/2mina.htm > Red dress from the 1992 movie of Dracula (I also put up a subsection > for > other people's recreations.) > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/k/2cleves.htm > Bruyn inspired gown from the Cleves/Cologne region. I have finally > settled > on a sort of colour scheme;) > > I'm also working on another fully pleated skirt from the 1880s but > have yet > to decide on the style of bodice. I have lots of fabric for a few > interchangeble styles actually. > > > Twiddling my fingers til my posts show up.. > > michaela de bruce > http://glittersweet.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: > 6/03/2006 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:54:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DsOTQ030697 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:54:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DsRen027295; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:54:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27DsAv0063576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:54:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DsAXr049621; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:54:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27Ds6wx049459 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:54:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.13e.25c4cd5e (15702) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:53:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID53-3d56440d9072267; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:53:55 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <002c01c64197$2e9cc150$ee1be604@camelot01> References: <002c01c64197$2e9cc150$ee1be604@camelot01> Message-Id: <635c8e173d29f964269146ab610f901e@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:53:54 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:54:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D9093.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k27DsOTQ030697 Status: RO Diane, Thank you for putting the history in order. I am fumbling around, looking for information about riding and costuming. You know how it goes. Research leads to more research. I find myself in interesting side researches, too. That's how I made a golfing outfit and learned to decorate a Bustle Hat as wells as, an Edwardian hat, made from scratch. Fun things that I never thought I'd do. That's how I found and joined this costume list-curiosity. I'd love to see photos of your saddles and your clothing. I am so impressed! SCA with all its rich fabrics and equestrian games is fascinating. What brand of saddle do you use for SCA? Do you know Kate from PA? She does SCA, as well. Susan (NJ) "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 10:28 PM, Diane Maynard wrote: > I am going to attempt to put in short version a very long > subject------First > of all, the Victorian idea of modesty is just that---Victorian. Most > periods before this time frame did not have the "modesty" that we > refer to > and women (and Ladies) that rode and controlled their own horse would > ride > astride. Women that were traveling but, did not "Ride" would travel by > Pillion saddle. This is a saddle that sits the rider totally side > ways on > the horse with a platform under the feet. There are numerous > references, > paintings, and tapestries that depict this style of travel for women. > When > traveling like this, there is usually a groom to lead and control the > horse > that the woman is on top of. By the 16 th century, Catherine de Medici > began to ride "Side-Saddle" for hunting. She actually took her > husband's > hunting saddle and threw her leg over the front horn. By doing this, > she > was actually still facing forward while both legs were on the same > side. > Elizabeth I copied her style and also rode "side-saddle". There is > what is > considered one of Elizabeth I 's side saddles in one of the London > museums. > Although considered quite an accomplished rider and well verse in > hunting, > when doing a parade or any public display, Queen Elizabeth I was > normally > being led to insure nothing could happen to endanger her. There are > also > accounts of Queen Elizabeth I wearing her Farthingale and that they > were so > large as to dwarf the mount she was riding. There are numerous > portraits of > Ladies and Queens riding astride through the 17 th century. It is not > until > the Victorian time frame that it becomes extremely improper for a Lady > to > ride astride. > > > > Why ride side saddle? Clothes. One can wear a skirt with a much > smaller > circumference if they are riding side saddle. To make a skirt that > looks > good and covers the rider's leg when riding astride takes a minimum of > 7 > yards. I can make a side saddle skirt in 4 yards. > > > > In case no one can tell----I find the history of the side saddle > fascinating > and I also ride side-saddle. I also used to give jumping demos > side-saddle > and I ride the SCA Equestrian games side saddle. I have run rings, > hit > quintains, etc. all in my side saddle and wearing my full Elizabethan > gowns > (and won). I currently own two modern jumping side saddles and one > 1846 > antique western side saddle that I bought from the family it was > originally > made for. > > > > Sorry----my post got longer than I anticipated, > > > > Diane > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:59:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Dx6kL030908 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:59:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Dx9EY032337; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:59:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27DwNdr064068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:58:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DwMwe052902; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:58:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DwDd7052764 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:58:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2b4.5ceea47 (15876) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:58:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID73-3e04440d916b3e4; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:58:03 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <008e01c641a5$9e8e6820$0401010a@michaela> References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <058201c64189$09326360$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> <008e01c641a5$9e8e6820$0401010a@michaela> Message-Id: <7bdbd15951615db241ca849dfb05d426@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:58:02 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:59:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D91AD.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k27Dx6kL030908 Status: RO < it's a bit hard to tell.) > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > ammanwomanonhorsebackholdingfan.jpg > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > ammonmanandwomanhavingaconversationonhorseback.jpg > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > ammonwomanonhoresback.jpg >> Perfect! Thanks. The first link shows the front. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 7, 2006, at 12:11 AM, michaela wrote: >> sideways with their back parallel to >> the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the >> horse's left side. > >> I've never seen anything depicting this style of riding. Links ? I >> can > see >> where a footman would have to lead a person seated like this, as it >> would > be >> a little like driving a car from the backseat. This position would >> put the >> woman more in the class of cargo, rather than "riding". It would be a >> form >> of transportation similar to sitting in a wagon, I'm sure. > > I have some images from 16thC woodcuts, and I think the tapestry of > Maximilian > shows Maria of Hungary riding like this (though the view is from the > back so > it's a bit hard to tell.) > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > ammanwomanonhorsebackholdingfan.jpg > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > ammonmanandwomanhavingaconversationonhorseback.jpg > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > ammonwomanonhoresback.jpg > > Sorry I don't have the folder public, so if the links are broken try > this: > http://photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > Then pasting the file names individually: > ammanwomanonhorsebackholdingfan.jpg > ammonmanandwomanhavingaconversationonhorseback.jpg > ammonwomanonhoresback.jpg > > Certainly a less than comfortable ride if you want to face forward! > > michaela de bruce > http://glittersweet.com > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: > 6/03/2006 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 09:21:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27ELa9m031836 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:21:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27ELdaq009588; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:21:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27EJh6l067165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:19:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27EJULp071729; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:19:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27EJQBQ071628 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:19:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.173.237.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.173.237]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FGd25-0005HS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:19:25 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <48C28618-ADE2-11DA-956B-0030656EBF34@mindspring.com> References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> <00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> <48C28618-ADE2-11DA-956B-0030656EBF34@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <251E1824-ADE6-11DA-956B-0030656EBF34@mindspring.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: [h-cost] Producing Shakespeare (some choice costume notes!) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:24:53 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:21:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D96F3.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO A colleague sent me this link. It's how-NOT-to tips about Shakespeare productions, many concerning costumes, most or all evidently written from experience. Give yourself plenty of time to absorb, reflect, howl with laughter. http://angevin2.livejournal.com/148520.html --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 10:47:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27FlNlf003183 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:47:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27FlO0H018628; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:47:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27FkINE081057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:46:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27FkEHE063700; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:46:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27FkAaV063613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:46:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:13494 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FGeNk-0007xy-OU for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:45:53 -0600 Message-ID: <334d01c641fe$3464fcd0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com><00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> <48C28618-ADE2-11DA-956B-0030656EBF34@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorry for this, testing but also latest projects if you are bored. Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:45:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 10:47:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DAB0C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Speaking of servers not liking people, does anyone know if Saragrace Knauf's website has up and died away completely, or if it's just hibernating? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 11:32:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27GVwm5004835 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:31:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27GVxog007855; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:32:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27GQ8rJ087762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27GPqm8003805; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:25:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [207.215.93.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27GPi44003599 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:25:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (66-81-42-231.nocal.dialup.o1.com [66.81.42.231]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id k27GRGk06945 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:27:16 -0800 Message-ID: <001901c64201$bd17ec60$e72a5142@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:11:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 11:32:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DB57F.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your hand > fans are your new best friend? Me, Me! "Is it hot in here?" "I don't know, ask someone younger. " Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 12:18:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27HITnU006484 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:18:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27HIW6Q031138; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:18:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27HHkZs096352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:17:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27HHZt2055021; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:17:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms048pub.verizon.net (vms048pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27HHRpK054936 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:17:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jeanine@woollycat.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([68.239.36.22]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVR00MKGPCCEYE7@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 11:17:10 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:15:38 -0500 From: "Jeanine E. Swick" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cossack coat In-reply-to: <8296995c0602251816q7f70118dv7f4f20d8502589a5@mail.gmail.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <440DBFBA.5060900@woollycat.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <000301c63a40$b1eaa260$6400a8c0@MAIN> <8296995c0602251816q7f70118dv7f4f20d8502589a5@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:18:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DC068.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Amazon Dry Goods still has some in stock. It is pattern number 502. Jeanine Lynn Downward wrote: >Is Folkwear's Cossack pattern still available? > >LynnD > > >On 2/25/06, Five Rivers Chapmanry wrote: > > >> Speaking of making your own clothes, it has been my desire for >>some time to make myself a new winter coat, one which is fashionable and >>warm, something to go with the stunning sable and mink Russian style hat I >>have. >> >> >> >> Does anyone have any idea where I might be able to find a >>pattern, or photos, of these wonderful coats? I've searched the net for >>days >>on end to no avail. I can't find that big-skirted, wide collared coat with >>the huge cuffs I so have loved for years. >> >> >> >>Regards, >> >>Lorina >> >>Five Rivers Chapmanry >> >>purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, >>re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. >> >>519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 12:48:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Hm2Xl007540 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:48:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Hm5iu011756; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:48:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27Hlod3001773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:47:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27HlneI085266; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:47:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27HlhVD085062 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:47:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k27HlaF01877.; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:47:36 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:47:36 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:47:28 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[h-cost]=20soir=E9e=20d=B4hiver=20more=20pi?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?ctures?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k27HlhVD085062 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:48:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DC755.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Splendid pictures! I love the middle one on the second row; it looks like a painting by Joseph Wright ( the famous artist from my home town of Derby who specialised in, among other things, candlelight scenes). See http://www.mezzo-mondo.com/arts/mm/wright/WRJ014.html Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 06/03/2006 20:27 >>> Hi, Shameless of me, i uploaded the first clickable pictures with the ones of myself. Its so seldom i had any pictures of me wearing the blue suit, and also my humble mundane. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver3.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 13:48:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Im5oV009789 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:48:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Im8hp005239; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:48:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27IkcVF011309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:47:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27Ijk3B040447; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:45:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27Ijap5040188 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:45:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FGhBY-00037v-7K for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 18:45:28 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:44:06 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Funny Nail Polish Colors References: <014f01c6419a$f9a580a0$6400a8c0@Penny> In-Reply-To: <014f01c6419a$f9a580a0$6400a8c0@Penny> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 13:48:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DD568.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Fantastic! I'm busy decorating - this makes such a welcome change from "sorbet" and "mist" and "spice". I'm disappointed with My Chihuahua Bites, though - I think it should be poison green. I was traumatised as a child by a ballet examiner with bright green nail polish and a small dog under the desk. Jean Penny Ladnier wrote >I am always looking for funny color names. OPI has some 2006 nail >polish colors names! Check these out: >Reds: >*** I'm Not Really a Waitress >*** Nice Color, Eh? >*** O'Hare & Nails Look Great! >*** SoHo Nice to Meet You >*** You Rock-apulco Red >*** My Chihuahua Bites! (my favorite) > >To view all their color names go to http://www.opi.com/ > >Penny E. Ladnier >Owner, >The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com >Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com >Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 15:06:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27K6U9j012630 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:06:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27K6XvD007735; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:06:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27K60AO023227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:06:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27K5ud7014619; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:05:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27K5otY014538 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:05:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f551e.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.30]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D29D9A50076 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:05:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001301c64222$78d9f8b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_soir=E9e_d=B4hiver_more_pictures?= Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:05:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 15:06:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DE7C9.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dear Kate, Thanks, this is not a picture i took, but you are right, it has a very nice lightening in it. I make a mistake by using flash i know, but i have tryed to not use flash with my digital camera, and the pictures gets very dark. I want people to be able to see the costumes, and therefore i use flash. I am very pleased if some of you like the pictures, it was a real nice weekend. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soirée d´hiver more pictures > Splendid pictures! I love the middle one on the second row; it looks like > a painting by Joseph Wright ( the famous artist from my home town of Derby > who specialised in, among other things, candlelight scenes). See > http://www.mezzo-mondo.com/arts/mm/wright/WRJ014.html > > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 06/03/2006 20:27 >>> > Hi, > Shameless of me, i uploaded the first clickable pictures with the ones of > myself. Its so seldom i had any pictures of me wearing the blue suit, and > also my humble mundane. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver3.htm > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 15:39:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27KdwLV013775 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:39:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27KdwAj023272; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:40:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27KdMtD028556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:39:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27KdIfk047865; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:39:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27KdBLQ047832 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:39:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kristinolivia@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id t12so11735wxc for ; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:39:11 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=dFtD07wmT4MwCGBQ9oXoz9blb82XWoCHmzoi/XaBTwNNWkRdO7T4teRCVJKDlrX9p5ROtBDLhntR06yCWwUXK27gtFG8/3whaQQ+4N45DI22LF0p8z3GeDIi9w3KP3PRVWv2AbZooEkUqH1sj8uRk2bzet85VjYqxJs/El9l5WU= Received: by 10.70.16.17 with SMTP id 17mr952095wxp; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.35.19 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:39:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <33a78bfb0603071239i71730344wedfabd13baba9e40@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:39:10 -0500 From: Kristin To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] OT - Archives, Costume exhibits overseas... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 15:40:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DEF9E.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k27KdwLV013775 Status: RO How do I access the archives? I'd look to see if any advice has been offered in the past, but I have no idea where to look. I'll be heading to Europe in late June / early July, and like to know if there are any good women's clothing collections in the cities I'll be visiting. I'm interested primarily in 18th century. I'll be visiting Munich, Venice and Paris. Thanks for your help! Kristin (costuming novice, but sewing since childhood) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 15:57:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27KuuNH014291 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:56:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27KuxC1030997; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:57:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27KuPGn031757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:56:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27KuMt7064812; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:56:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27KuGPd064686 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:56:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25933 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:27:24 -0600 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:27:22 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Archives, Costume exhibits overseas... In-Reply-To: <33a78bfb0603071239i71730344wedfabd13baba9e40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 15:57:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DF39B.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Tue, 7 Mar 2006, Kristin wrote: > How do I access the archives? I'd look to see if any advice has been > offered in the past, but I have no idea where to look. The closest thing we have to an archive is here, thanks to the faithful efforts of listmember Eric Praetzel: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives/ But your question is worth asking fresh. Exhibits change all the time. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 17:02:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M2C0p016510 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:02:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M2CeV026244; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:02:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27M1gg2042338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:01:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M1Vvx029867; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:01:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M1Ktq029638 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:01:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i1so35984nzh for ; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 14:01:19 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=Ged3+PF1W08CWIcAg+CS/5tnWwdPZlJLAif2PIDJdAtkU2C2MARMiAYzAqpmBiGsc/luwCqhwQk6L62gkqvnGIMpZ0u9IHUqoyNuTBPL3MeTNcN5/Z3WenC5PUMeJdTsseh62n2E9SElotrnL/2jCcfqQfrd8slmIEB+kcmxj+Y= Received: by 10.64.210.18 with SMTP id i18mr24781qbg; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 14:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from p4audrey ( [24.203.172.211]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id e19sm36111qbe.2006.03.07.14.01.18; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 14:01:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00c301c64232$ac1cbb80$0302a8c0@p4audrey> From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> <001901c64201$bd17ec60$e72a5142@dnyeaqvf> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:01:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:02:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E02E4.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >> Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your > hand >> fans are your new best friend? > > Me, Me! > > "Is it hot in here?" > > "I don't know, ask someone younger. " > > Margo I'm no good, even if I *am* younger. I'm always cold :-) "Is it cold in here?" "I don't know, ask someone normal." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 17:05:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M52LS016604 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:05:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M55vl027493; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:05:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27M4KNO042795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:04:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M4H4n032723; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:04:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M4Bu4032474 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:04:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVS004C52M7XNB4@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:03:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:03:41 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Funny Nail Polish Colors In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:05:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E0391.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Personally I would love some of those Elizabethan colors: Dead Spaniard and Dirty Isabella come to mind... :-) Monica Spence -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Jean Waddie Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 1:44 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Funny Nail Polish Colors Fantastic! I'm busy decorating - this makes such a welcome change from "sorbet" and "mist" and "spice". I'm disappointed with My Chihuahua Bites, though - I think it should be poison green. I was traumatised as a child by a ballet examiner with bright green nail polish and a small dog under the desk. Jean Penny Ladnier wrote >I am always looking for funny color names. OPI has some 2006 nail >polish colors names! Check these out: >Reds: >*** I'm Not Really a Waitress >*** Nice Color, Eh? >*** O'Hare & Nails Look Great! >*** SoHo Nice to Meet You >*** You Rock-apulco Red >*** My Chihuahua Bites! (my favorite) > >To view all their color names go to http://www.opi.com/ > >Penny E. Ladnier >Owner, >The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com >Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com >Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 17:07:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M7mjY016702 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:07:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M7pT9028507; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:07:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27M60pU043062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:06:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M5x4K034503; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:05:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M5tZ0034307 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:05:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVS00ECO2P41WM2@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:05:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:05:26 -0500 From: monica spence In-reply-to: To: Laurel , Maunche , Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 16th C. Dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:07:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E0437.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi all-- This was just on my email list for the Costume Society of America. Regards- Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) NEW ONLINE RESOURCE A new research resource for 16th Century dress is now online. A pilot database of images is available at: http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies. Compiled by Dr. JANE MALCOLM-DAVIES [International Region VIII] of the Winchester School of Art, this is the first stage of a proposed project to photograph and disseminate images of Tudor effigies in UK churches. The pilot database contains 44 effigies with photographs of items and features of dress. This represents about two per cent of the material that could be compiled. Eventually, each effigy and its details will have a description with appropriate 16th Century terms and an explanation of how they were worn. Feedback on the database will help with continued funding for the project. Please visit http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies and send comments to: mailto:jane@jmdandco.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 17:09:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M9mkO016786 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:09:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M9pm2019847; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:09:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27M9WNO043442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:09:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M9PZO037980; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:09:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M9Jpe037845 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:09:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1FGkMo1gKf-000215; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:09:19 -0500 Message-ID: <019a01c64233$cd211320$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> <001901c64201$bd17ec60$e72a5142@dnyeaqvf> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:09:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:09:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E04AF.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Margo, Have you seen the new commercial about women and hot flashes. They are so funny. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 17:23:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27MNt8C017237 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:23:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27MNwhT002348; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:24:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27MNTSR045285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:23:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27MNRwI052029; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:23:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27MNLMf051911 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:23:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1FGkaO12PU-0006xi; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:23:21 -0500 Message-ID: <01b901c64235$c2b883d0$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny><001901c64201$bd17ec60$e72a5142@dnyeaqvf> <00c301c64232$ac1cbb80$0302a8c0@p4audrey> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:23:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:24:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E07FE.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Audrey, I was cold for years. But when the change hit it is the opposite. I was driving down the highway this morning with the windows down... it was 30 degrees outside. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 17:26:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27MQBIj017309 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:26:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27MQFiJ003259; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:26:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27MPwtO045545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:25:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27MPuUi054252; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:25:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27MPqwC054160 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:25:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1FGkcl0hrr-0006qr; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:25:48 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd01c64236$1a785a00$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Funny Nail Polish Colors Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:25:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:26:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E0887.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Monica, I haven't heard of dirty Isabella as a color name before. What source did you use to find that name? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 18:28:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27NS5Ql019242 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:28:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27NS8xm026486; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:28:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27NRhCg054101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:27:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27NRWnI011597; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:27:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27NRQqp011465 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:27:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5598.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.152]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A73647FE6B for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:27:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c6423e$a7e5d220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> <00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorry for this, testing but also latest projects if you are bored. Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:27:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 18:28:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E1708.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Michaela, Thanks for posting the links. I enjoyed it very much. Loved your bustle dresses, and how the h.......did you make that picture with changeable colours? Very impressive!!! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 9:02 AM Subject: [h-cost] Sorry for this,testing but also latest projects if you are bored. >I haven't had my last several emails I posted to the list, and a few before > that were delayed by several days, not just a few hours. I was wondering > if > others are having the same issue. Then I can narrow down where the problem > might be. I may just be getting the mail delayed to me, I have no idea > when > they are getting to other people. > > I noticed I had a warning about messages bouncing a while back on some > list > and I think it was this one (which is mad as I have had constant uptime > with > this email address and if I'm away will change to digest mode.) > > Anyway, if this does go through (9pm Tuesday March 7 NZ time which is +12 > hours GMT) I have recently updated my website with costumes I haven't > linked > from my main page before. > > Latest projects are: > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/phantom/wishing.htm > Replica of the Blue Dress from the Aussie productions of Phantom of the > Opera. > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/dracula/2mina.htm > Red dress from the 1992 movie of Dracula (I also put up a subsection for > other people's recreations.) > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/k/2cleves.htm > Bruyn inspired gown from the Cleves/Cologne region. I have finally settled > on a sort of colour scheme;) > > I'm also working on another fully pleated skirt from the 1880s but have > yet > to decide on the style of bodice. I have lots of fabric for a few > interchangeble styles actually. > > > Twiddling my fingers til my posts show up.. > > michaela de bruce > http://glittersweet.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: 6/03/2006 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 19:23:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k280Nrov020934 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:23:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k280NuAG014231; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:23:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k280Nb0D063969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:23:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k280NZXV060582; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:23:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k280NVIj060521 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:23:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.65.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.65] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FGmMX-000351-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:17:10 -0500 Message-ID: <440E303A.9090003@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:15:38 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack References: <002c01c64197$2e9cc150$ee1be604@camelot01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:23:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E241C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Here are a couple from the 17th century, courtesy of Web Gallery of Art: VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian 1634-35 Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm Museo del Prado, Madrid http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y Queen Margarita on Horseback 1634-35 Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm Museo del Prado, Madrid http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or sidesaddle, but perhaps someone with more equestrian experience could venture. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 20:08:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2818UpY022923 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:08:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2818Xk0030399; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:08:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2818ABt070507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:08:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28186C9097642; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:08:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28182EI097561 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:08:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from camelothorse@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=nWsEP6AvphOc+g7Z6wHPK8tzIwGJk1R8g9fcIeqx0sHM5xHVidKZlSXzbVImKpdC; h=Received:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Organization:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.230.60.113] (helo=camelot01) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FGn9l-0002of-22 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 20:08:02 -0500 From: "Diane Maynard" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:08:23 -0600 Organization: Camelot Horse Center Message-ID: <006901c6424c$cd3506f0$ee1be604@camelot01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcZCRrir8q1d170ARd2P0D12bdLh/wABVbrA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 In-Reply-To: <440E303A.9090003@faucet.net> X-ELNK-Trace: 7d3e56efc2551607917237dadff7bf594d2b10475b571120a8d4a2faead544eefc091378b9bd56a014353dbccc8a7aa3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.230.60.113 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k28182EI097561 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 20:08:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E2E91.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I can tell you that that I believe that BOTH of these paintings are of women riding ASTRIDE. These are two of my favorite paintings and I have duplicated both of these gowns for myself. It takes a LOT of material to make the skirts of these gowns. If one is riding side-saddle, the gown will not "envelope" the hind quarters of the horse the way these gowns do. I side saddle gown will literally hang to the side of the legs (covering the legs)and not cover the hindquarters of the horse. Diane VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian 1634-35 Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm Museo del Prado, Madrid http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y Queen Margarita on Horseback 1634-35 Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm Museo del Prado, Madrid http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or sidesaddle, but perhaps someone with more equestrian experience could venture. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 22:25:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k283PAPu027178 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:25:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k283PCjE011962; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:25:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k283Oqt2088850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:24:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k283OkWj009197; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:24:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k283OdfZ009099 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:24:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.145] (pm5-145.eos.net [205.133.149.145]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k283OahI006873 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:24:37 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:12:39 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603071915.k27JF16h066821@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: soiredhiver X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:25:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E4E98.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne: These pictures are lovely, and how nice to see so many of you! I am curious about the event. Are you all in the same Society? How do you know each other? Are you from different countries, and if so what language(s) do you speak when you are all together? That military uniform (I think it is one) is just so gorgeous! And the picture of you dancing with the girl in red -- she looks so perfect. It must have been a wonderful weekend. Who cooked? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 22:36:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k283aWAp027547 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:36:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k283aZuN015515; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:36:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k283aDms090071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:36:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k283aCLK017366; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:36:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51311.mail.yahoo.com (web51311.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k283Zx0Y017223 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:36:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 75019 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2006 03:35:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=W5+N0Y5ZjEocrWqXQrEyMSg46bWa0gN15XHISEUZfSI5SHZ5d1MAlY55y/XH220NzjtQA5w5jNS8tHd3BdWgboXH1T/LJEnM4A+XtEAZyaL/2coY61y6g2orNd6zuc5g9eEVza7IoE82D96TDO4atp6G7v4orSnlHkSVHXdZ/Lw= ; Message-ID: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.135.74] by web51311.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:35:54 PST Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:35:54 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <53a0929df06dbb16543d77be6af91aff@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:36:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E5144.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Spreading the legs apart when they are decently covered with long skirts is perfectly okay. Ruth M. Green, in her "Wearing of Costume", mentions that keeping the legs together in long skirts is not particularly decent nor is it necessary. The eighteenth century in particular showed the 'broad lap'. The nineteenth century Huck Finn was caught out when cross-dressing--a girl would spread her legs to let her skirt catch something thrown, while Huck, used to pants, closed his legs to catch something. It wasn't until the short skirts of the twentieth century that it became "not Nice" for a girl to have her legs apart. Mistakes mine; it's been a while since I read Ms. Green's book. Or Huck Finn. Ann in CT --- Susan Data-Samtak wrote: >The "propriety point" is that a LADY did not spread > her legs apart. > > Susan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 22:41:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k283fFdT027684 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:41:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k283fIR4016933; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:41:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k283eq8h090565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:40:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k283eqg0020731; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:40:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k283elYv020626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:40:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FGpXc-0000FF-3p; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:40:48 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:40:48 -0500 Message-ID: <20060307224048.27sq49ehst1icogw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:40:48 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> <001901c64201$bd17ec60$e72a5142@dnyeaqvf> <00c301c64232$ac1cbb80$0302a8c0@p4audrey> In-Reply-To: <00c301c64232$ac1cbb80$0302a8c0@p4audrey> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:41:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E525E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Audrey Bergeron-Morin : >>> Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your >> hand >>> fans are your new best friend? >> >> Me, Me! >> >> "Is it hot in here?" >> >> "I don't know, ask someone younger. " >> >> Margo > > I'm no good, even if I *am* younger. I'm always cold :-) > > "Is it cold in here?" > > "I don't know, ask someone normal." And you *really* know that you've got problems when your always "cold" except when you're having a hot flash. *sigh* At least they've gone! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 23:29:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k284TFAI029111 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:29:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k284TIHE032742; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:29:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k284Soge095628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:28:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k284SlMP055887; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:28:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k284SiLm055771 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:28:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10E8A1F78 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:28:34 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:29:53 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for sources of art X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:29:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E5D9E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm looking for more online galleries like The Web Gallery of Art at wga.hu, sites with a large collection of searchable images and information about those images. Can anyone suggest some new sites to visit? I'm increasingly frustrated with museum sites that list little more than the accession number along with a thumbnail. I really want to be able to see the art in detail and read about the artist or the subject. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 23:55:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k284ti5i029620 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:55:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k284tlK8008792; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:55:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k284sIdj098414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:54:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k284sH1E074216; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:54:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k284sEwD074158 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:54:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A25371902A8; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:49:23 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:54:17 -0800 Message-ID: <003c01c6426c$5af625e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:55:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E63D3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I usually wash as much as possible, however, washing polished cotton has resulted in the "polish" washing out, and stiff taffeta got limp and wrinkly. I wash my cotton velvet Renaissance costume and the silk sleeves/forepart. Also dry in dryer until just damp. Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Chris Laning Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:21 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question At 10:40 AM -0600 3/5/06, Betsy Marshall wrote: >My information is that dry cleaning helps preserve the fabric >treatments used by the manufacturer- either fabric or clothing >processes; so fabric of wool, linen, silk or combinations thereof, >_can_ be washed, just be prepared for the size/hand/texture to change. >(Personally I toss it all in the washer on cold and let the chips, er, >scraps fall where they may.) My philosophy is to give the finished garment a cleaning treatment that's one step gentler than the washing I gave the fabric before I cut it out. I pretty much machine wash all yardage as soon as I get it home and the edges zigzagged. This has worked a lot better for some things than others. I've not had any problems with linen or silk, but I've learned to be more careful about wool, especially about tumble drying it. I had a wool Elizabethan gown (and I can now boast that it was custom-made for me by Margo -- yes, THAT Margo, of Margo's patterns ) and she washed my wool yardage on hot, _three_ times before she cut it out. And I washed it on cold and dried it on barely lukewarm, and it DID shrink, almost three inches in length after half a dozen washings. :( -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 00:22:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k285Lw5i029990 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:21:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k285M1t9017184; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:22:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k285LbRV001227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:21:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k285LaLF094110; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:21:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k285LWwC094056 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:21:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20l3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.163] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FGr75-00077s-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:21:31 -0500 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20060307221828.02c75008@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:23:05 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200603070328.k273S9gt000560@net.indra.com> References: <200603070328.k273S9gt000560@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Con X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:22:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E69F9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The program for CC 24 is currently in development. It is typical that the program is not finalized until a month or so before the convention. If there is something that you would particularly like to see, or something you would like to present, now is the time to contact our program director, Sheril Harper, at: programming@epicmovies.org Or you can contact us and we'll forward it to her. BTW, we very likely will be doing the chemical and burn test panel that has been discussed here in the past. Sandy At 09:28 PM 3/6/2006, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:16:28 -0600 >From: Dawn >Subject: [h-cost] CostumeCon > >I was wondering who all from the list was thinking of going. Or who >would be lecturing there. Anyone? > >I notice that there's still next to no info available on the website, >just a couple months out now, and I was wondering if I should be >worried. Or do these things always pull themselves together at the last >minute? I can already find thorough information on other events much >later in the summer and I'm getting concerned because I have no idea >what to expect from CostumeCon. I'm thinking I ought to reserve a hotel >room pretty soon, if I'm going. > >Dawn "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 00:35:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k285Zl7c030169 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:35:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k285ZoAu021837; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:35:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k285ZNNc002378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:35:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k285ZKOk003962; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:35:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k285ZGPM003854 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:35:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2c4.4b657d4 (16109) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:35:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed440e6d0a1bc; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:35:06 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <440E303A.9090003@faucet.net> References: <002c01c64197$2e9cc150$ee1be604@camelot01> <440E303A.9090003@faucet.net> Message-Id: <5e809b67aeffe7173a7f2d84e5cae7ec@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:35:04 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:35:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E6D36.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k285Zl7c030169 Status: RO Thank you Melanie. The clothing is breathtaking. I can't see the Queen riding at any gait faster than a walk without having the horse get tangled in all the heavy drapery. I cannot tell if she is riding sidesaddle, either. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 7, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > Here are a couple from the 17th century, courtesy of Web Gallery of > Art: > > VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y > Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian > 1634-35 > Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm > Museo del Prado, Madrid > http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg > > VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y > Queen Margarita on Horseback > 1634-35 > Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm > Museo del Prado, Madrid > http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg > > It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or > sidesaddle, but perhaps someone with more equestrian experience could > venture. > > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 01:55:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k286tkX6000661 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:55:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k286tmY8015224; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:55:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k286tRvX009471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:55:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k286tK0D056342; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:55:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k286tHB4056301 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:55:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=bOSi0kLJPlbG8B6U/hysIcKYVXzN5IwdezIzoUEw1LN8zGygeWjNYoja8xYqp5WU; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.122.48] (helo=boris) by smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FGsZo-0001Bn-VT for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 01:55:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c6427d$498388a0$0300a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:55:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48a3ce79dd05d30e83fa143fc9e2621f83a2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.122.48 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 01:55:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E7FF4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > Spreading the legs apart when they are decently > covered with long skirts is perfectly okay. > > Ruth M. Green, in her "Wearing of Costume", mentions > that keeping the legs together in long skirts is not > particularly decent nor is it necessary. > The eighteenth century in particular showed the 'broad > lap'. > Ann in CT Not only was it ok, but in some styles it was practically impossible to sit with the legs together. I wear 1630's French clothing a lot, and with the long stomachers on the dresses, sitting with my legs apart is manditory. I've also got more than a few pictures of women riding astride from this period, including some who rode into combat during the 30 years and English Civil Wars. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 04:43:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k289hbjF002730 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 04:43:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k289hecN031297; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 04:43:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k289hA0h026875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 02:43:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k289h7Ft063892; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 02:43:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k289h2u9063786 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 02:43:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k289guP17319.; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:42:56 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:42:56 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:42:48 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k289h2u9063786 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:43:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440EA74C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO A comedy sketch show on BBC Radio 4 had a running gag about a middle-aged superwoman figure who arrived saying "Is it me, or is it hot in here?", but was able to solve problems by knowing things that younger people don't (such as having the multiplication tables in her head). Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 05:48:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Am0gY020542 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:48:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Am2xP018597; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:48:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28Algia034858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 03:47:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28AlcLh008418; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 03:47:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28AlWou008353 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 03:47:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5598.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.152]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8609047FED5 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:47:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003801c6429d$b6ad57b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: soiredhiver Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:47:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 05:48:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440EB663.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Gail. Most of the people, i know from Gustavs Skål (the swedish gustavian society) We are spread out in Europe and the german friends came to Mauritia (Reinnes des Centfeuilles) They are willing to travel far to get to events like me coming from Denmark. Mauritia has a big house, and she generously opened it for us all to come as we liked for 3 days. Mauritia and her daughter Kim, cooked all the wonderfull food, baked bread set the table and so on. Saturday we went for an outing to an old castle, and afterwards we drove into the woods to a small inn, where Mauritia had ordered a lunch for us. Wonderfull red dear roast. This was the only thing we payed for individually, all the rest was free. The uniform is very nice, its a preussian officers uniform. And the girl in red also wore the green redingote in front of the castle, and the yellow servantgirls outfit. She is a very tallented young girl, and i am sure you will hear more from here in the future. When i was her age, i didnt have half the tallent as she has. My favourite was her green redingote with a huge hat, it was so lovely. Bjarne ----- Original Messag ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:12 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: soiredhiver > > Bjarne: > > These pictures are lovely, and how nice to see so many of you! I am > curious > about the event. Are you all in the same Society? How do you know each > other? Are you from different countries, and if so what language(s) do you > speak when you are all together? > > That military uniform (I think it is one) is just so gorgeous! And the > picture of you dancing with the girl in red -- she looks so perfect. It > must > have been a wonderful weekend. Who cooked? > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 07:45:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28CjZBD012070 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:45:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Cjcb7025298; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:45:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28CivUL048594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:44:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Cirtb094669; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:44:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28CijOu094546 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:44:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.126.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.126] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FGy1v-0006Bm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:44:40 -0500 Message-ID: <440EDF6B.2030908@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:43:07 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for sources of art References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:45:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440ED1F2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO CGFA and Olga's Gallery are good general sites: http://cgfa.dotsrc.org/ http://www.abcgallery.com/index.html If you're looking for works by a particular artist, or you know the title of a work but not the artist, try Artcyclopedia: http://www.artcyclopedia.com/ Happy searching, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume Dawn wrote: > I'm looking for more online galleries like The Web Gallery of Art at > wga.hu, sites with a large collection of searchable images and > information about those images. Can anyone suggest some new sites to > visit? I'm increasingly frustrated with museum sites that list little > more than the accession number along with a thumbnail. I really want to > be able to see the art in detail and read about the artist or the subject. > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 09:43:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Eha1c017112 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:43:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28EhdKA009764; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:43:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28EgmM3062722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:42:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28EggbQ091829; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:42:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k28EgcaF091709 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:42:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABCA75LMA3YKHQA for (sender ); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:42:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LJXTYXM6; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 06:42:09 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:41:46 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Message-ID: <20060308.084146.-148383269.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-18,20-63 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 23:11:71113694 X-MAIL-INFO: 3331946d316d993594c4d44449f961d150e19189c05141e1512d5531548511251174719d7471d91471d9c9542d356db9d4dd3530940dd47d303d5dd13019388985648539c1d9b5718514 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn71Tho/uj7J1gJc9HWSuOubBcajqrqeqwBQ== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:43:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440EED9B.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm not an expert on equestrian costume or riding side-saddle, but I think these ladies ARE riding side-saddle. I can see the subtle outline of the right leg wrapped around the saddle horn with the left leg hanging more or less vertically. As for the skirt spreading, I have seen it done. At Bristol, Mary Kababik, who plays Queen Elizabeth, has ridden in the main parade on a side-saddle for the last 5 years and with the amount of fabric in her skirt it looks almost exactly like that. In this painting the ladies aren't riding perpendicular to the horse, they are riding more or less parallel wi the horse with their lower body turned slightly to the side. Just my ha'penny's worth, Karen Seamstrix On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:08:23 -0600 "Diane Maynard" writes: > I can tell you that that I believe that BOTH of these paintings are > of women > riding ASTRIDE. These are two of my favorite paintings and I have > duplicated both of these gowns for myself. It takes a LOT of > material to > make the skirts of these gowns. If one is riding side-saddle, the > gown will > not "envelope" the hind quarters of the horse the way these gowns > do. I > side saddle gown will literally hang to the side of the legs > (covering the > legs)and not cover the hindquarters of the horse. > > Diane > > > VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y > Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian > 1634-35 > Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm > Museo del Prado, Madrid > http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg > > VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y > Queen Margarita on Horseback > 1634-35 > Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm > Museo del Prado, Madrid > http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg > > It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or > sidesaddle, but perhaps someone with more equestrian experience > could > venture. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 10:16:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28FG1iS019040 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:16:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28FG4MG025910; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:16:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28FFFSY068992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:15:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28FFCN2026388; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:15:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28FErYS025960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:15:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FH0NG-0001qT-9d; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:14:50 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:14:50 -0500 Message-ID: <20060308101450.s3nc0nngat4ww0ck@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:14:50 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=19% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:16:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440EF534.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Kate M Bunting : > A comedy sketch show on BBC Radio 4 had a running gag about a > middle-aged superwoman figure who arrived saying "Is it me, or is it > hot in here?", but was able to solve problems by knowing things that > younger people don't (such as having the multiplication tables in her > head). That's good! Just remember, Ladies, they're not Hot Flashes, they're Power Surges! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 11:15:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28GFqto023761 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:15:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28GFuNm020154; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:15:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28G9nuQ087620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:09:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28G9i1Q083882; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:09:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28G9c8a083624 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:09:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.25f.82470bd (15889) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:09:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from FWM-R07 (fwm-r07.webmail.aol.com [152.163.211.135]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID84-3e11440f01b73bc; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:09:28 -0500 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:09:27 -0500 Message-Id: <8C810E1CEEDCCB1-165C-10C8E@FWM-R07.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200603080341.k283es01020770@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by FWM-R07.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.135) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:09:27 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603080341.k283es01020770@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.135 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:15:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F033C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28GFqto023761 Status: RO In both of these paintings, there seems to be a piece of cloth covering the horse to its ankles underneath the ladies' gowns. Was this a standard part of saddlery, or was it specific to lady riders? (To protect their skirts, maybe?) Tea Rose, who has ridden horses exactly twice in her life ************************************************************ From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Here are a couple from the 17th century, courtesy of Web Gallery of Art: VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y Queen Margarita on Horseback http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 11:34:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28GYDjd025957 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:34:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28GYGck028016; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:34:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28GXWTr099965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:33:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28GXPFK007641; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:33:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28GXLE3007420 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:33:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.280.6c73aef (16086) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:33:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID103-3ed6440f073d1e3; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:33:01 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <000601c6427d$498388a0$0300a8c0@boris> References: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c6427d$498388a0$0300a8c0@boris> Message-Id: <9510f346ef2cc50bc491e941c3434449@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:33:00 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:34:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F0788.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28GYDjd025957 Status: RO Thanks, Melusine. From what I've learned, so far, riding clothes were not very different from regular clothes until rather recently. Sidesaddles are also a recent invention. I've heard that sidesaddles, as we understand the term, did not exist prior to about 1800. I don't know if that is true. I've also heard that many of the "conventions" followed by sidesaddle riders today, using english style sidesaddles, go back to Victorian times when so much of life was codified. One example that was pointed out to me: black gloves are appropriate to use for US Rev War impressions, but definitely not for US Civil War, because Victorians used black gloves as part of their mourning attire and "A Lady would not be riding if she were in mourning. A Lady would stay at home, or be driven in a carriage." Can anyone confirm such a statement? As you can see, I have a lot to learn. I am first and foremost interested in my horse. The rest of the costuming and tack are all newer areas to me and so much fun! Thanks for all your input. I'm sure it comes as no surprise that some of our 21st century women riding sidesaddle think it is OK to zip themselves into a polyester costume. Others want to know more. Some of us want to ride, look appropriate, yet be safe with all that our current century throws at us. I consider myself to be in that last category. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 8, 2006, at 1:55 AM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > > >> Spreading the legs apart when they are decently >> covered with long skirts is perfectly okay. >> >> Ruth M. Green, in her "Wearing of Costume", mentions >> that keeping the legs together in long skirts is not >> particularly decent nor is it necessary. >> The eighteenth century in particular showed the 'broad >> lap'. >> Ann in CT > > Not only was it ok, but in some styles it was practically impossible > to sit with the legs together. I wear 1630's French clothing a lot, > and with the long stomachers on the dresses, sitting with my legs > apart is manditory. I've also got more than a few pictures of women > riding astride from this period, including some who rode into combat > during the 30 years and English Civil Wars. > > Melusine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 11:50:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Goj2L028694 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:50:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Gomxf003348; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:50:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28GmvSe005097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:48:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28GmgJd023343; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:48:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Gmbb1023178 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:48:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2ea.2b198ec (15863) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:48:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID62-3df7440f0ad1244; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:48:18 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060308.084146.-148383269.0.penhalion@juno.com> References: <20060308.084146.-148383269.0.penhalion@juno.com> Message-Id: <8fbddab4731559da625aefc93fc825bf@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:48:10 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:50:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F0B68.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28Goj2L028694 Status: RO And just to confuse things, Catherine II is definitely riding astride in this painting in the 1700's. > Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 8, 2006, at 9:41 AM, Karen R Bergquist wrote: > I'm not an expert on equestrian costume or riding side-saddle, but I > think these ladies ARE riding side-saddle. I can see the subtle outline > of the right leg wrapped around the saddle horn with the left leg > hanging > more or less vertically. As for the skirt spreading, I have seen it > done. > At Bristol, Mary Kababik, who plays Queen Elizabeth, has ridden in the > main parade on a side-saddle for the last 5 years and with the amount > of > fabric in her skirt it looks almost exactly like that. In this painting > the ladies aren't riding perpendicular to the horse, they are riding > more > or less parallel wi the horse with their lower body turned slightly to > the side. > > Just my ha'penny's worth, > > Karen > Seamstrix > > > > > On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:08:23 -0600 "Diane Maynard" > writes: >> I can tell you that that I believe that BOTH of these paintings are >> of women >> riding ASTRIDE. These are two of my favorite paintings and I have >> duplicated both of these gowns for myself. It takes a LOT of >> material to >> make the skirts of these gowns. If one is riding side-saddle, the >> gown will >> not "envelope" the hind quarters of the horse the way these gowns >> do. I >> side saddle gown will literally hang to the side of the legs >> (covering the >> legs)and not cover the hindquarters of the horse. >> >> Diane >> >> >> VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y >> Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian >> 1634-35 >> Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm >> Museo del Prado, Madrid >> http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg >> >> VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y >> Queen Margarita on Horseback >> 1634-35 >> Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm >> Museo del Prado, Madrid >> http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg >> >> It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or >> sidesaddle, but perhaps someone with more equestrian experience >> could >> venture. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 12:56:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Hu81L000521 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:56:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28HuBIb000651; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:56:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28HtTiT024873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:55:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Ht8wq097399; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:55:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f13.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Ht1aw097210 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:55:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mrscakehole@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:54:59 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.200 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:54:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [86.138.122.41] X-Originating-Email: [mrscakehole@hotmail.com] X-Sender: mrscakehole@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200603080341.k283es01020770@net.indra.com> From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:54:58 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Mar 2006 17:54:59.0857 (UTC) FILETIME=[6B15E010:01C642D9] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fans X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 12:56:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F1ABB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO All this talk of fans has reminded me that "Cool: Presenting a Cooling Image - Fans from The Fan Museum and Portraits from the Lafayette Photographic Archive at the V&A" is on at the Fan Museum (London, UK) until 26 March, in case anyone's interested. http://www.fan-museum.org/exhibdetails.asp?exhibID=9 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 14:23:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JNLaK006972 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:23:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JNPkx007496; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:23:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28JN2lo050700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:23:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28JMs4d091752; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:22:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mail.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k286CZoG028835 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:12:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.9b.7210f30a (16087) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:12:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID104-3ed7440e75c6b6; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 01:12:22 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:12:21 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:23:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F2F2D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28JNLaK006972 Status: RO Thanks, Ann. Pays to ask questions or be corrected when incorrect. I was under the impression that a lady never spread her legs apart, regardless of the layers that covered her. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 7, 2006, at 10:35 PM, Ann Catelli wrote: > Spreading the legs apart when they are decently > covered with long skirts is perfectly okay. > > Ruth M. Green, in her "Wearing of Costume", mentions > that keeping the legs together in long skirts is not > particularly decent nor is it necessary. > The eighteenth century in particular showed the 'broad > lap'. > The nineteenth century Huck Finn was caught out when > cross-dressing--a girl would spread her legs to let > her skirt catch something thrown, while Huck, used to > pants, closed his legs to catch something. > > It wasn't until the short skirts of the twentieth > century that it became "not Nice" for a girl to have > her legs apart. > > Mistakes mine; it's been a while since I read Ms. > Green's book. Or Huck Finn. > > Ann in CT > > --- Susan Data-Samtak wrote: >> The "propriety point" is that a LADY did not spread >> her legs apart. >> >> Susan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 14:23:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JNXAS006999 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:23:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JNb8i000708; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:23:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28JN1Z0050697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:23:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28JMs5q091766; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:22:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k286HhpD032232 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:17:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:17:43 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.46.112 by BAY106-DAV18.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 06:17:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.46.112] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for sources of art Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:17:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:17:39 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Mar 2006 06:17:43.0369 (UTC) FILETIME=[02986B90:01C64278] X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:23:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F2F39.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28JNXAS006999 Status: RO I don't think there is anything quite like the Web Gallery of Art. However, here are some good art sites. http://marquise.de/index.html This site won't tell you about the art, but the blow-ups are fair size and all the pictures are of costume. http://www.enluminures.culture.fr/ The French have a massive data-base of manuscript illuminations. The size of the image varies - often detail shots are available. It can be searched by subject. http://cgfa.dotsrc.org/index.html This is similar to the Web Gallery of Art although not as complete. http://www.bergerfoundation.ch/ I haven't used this site much. The image quality is uneven but has some obscure things. http://www.abcgallery.com/index.html This is another site I haven't used much as it doesn't have a big selection in medieval and renaissance art. On the other hand, their 18th cen. list of artists looks pretty extensive. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 14:23:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JNofU007067 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:23:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JNrSc005487; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:23:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28JN03C050692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:23:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28JMqj5091698; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:22:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [216.148.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28JMlx7091482 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:22:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.197.111]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060308192240m11001lfjne>; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:22:40 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter01.comcast.net; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:22:39 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:22:39 +0000 Message-Id: <030820061922.25251.440F2EFF0003F860000062A322007374789C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:23:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F2F49.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO With what I have read and seen in paintings during the past few years of my own research; I've only seen women on horses with that cloth covering. What a saddle blanket! Now, I do want to add that not all women riders used this type of cloth covering. Roscelin -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: tearoses@aol.com > In both of these paintings, there seems to be a piece of cloth covering the > horse to its ankles underneath the ladies' gowns. Was this a standard part of > saddlery, or was it specific to lady riders? (To protect their skirts, maybe?) > > Tea Rose, who has ridden horses exactly twice in her life _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 14:40:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Jeoeg008155 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:40:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JerLp016236; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:40:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28Jcb3p054136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:38:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28JcWWc007758; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:38:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Gul9G031856 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:56:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k28GufP11717.; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:56:41 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:56:41 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:56:33 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k28Gul9G031856 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:40:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F3345.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not long ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the upper half copying masculine attire. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 16:33:00 >>> Thanks, Melusine. From what I've learned, so far, riding clothes were not very different from regular clothes until rather recently. Sidesaddles are also a recent invention. I've heard that sidesaddles, as we understand the term, did not exist prior to about 1800. I don't know if that is true. ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 14:47:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JlMMq008386 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:47:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JlQLK019369; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:47:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28JbKbE053840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:41:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28JPkVV095075; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:25:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k289A324044594 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 02:10:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2899oP15011.; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:09:56 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:09:50 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:09:41 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Isabella, was Funny Nail Polish Colors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k289A324044594 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:47:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F34CE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Penny, I know it as just "Isabella". The story goes that a Queen of Spain vowed not to change her clothes until a certain military campaign had succeeded. Isabella is a greyish-yellow, supposedly the colour her shift became! Casn't quote any sources OTOH, but I've seen it mentioned in literature. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> penny@costumegallery.com 07/03/2006 22:25 >>> Monica, I haven't heard of dirty Isabella as a color name before. What source did you use to find that name? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 14:56:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Juu1V008708 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:56:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Jv0uY023837; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:57:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28Ju6FH056807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:56:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Ju2V0026233; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:56:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Jtuai026034 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:56:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.275.70976d8 (16109) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:55:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed440f36c13cd; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:55:46 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060308.084146.-148383269.0.penhalion@juno.com> References: <20060308.084146.-148383269.0.penhalion@juno.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:26:10 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:57:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F370C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28Juu1V008708 Status: RO To see the correct modern position of a sidesaddle rider and view some nice costumes for riding, as well, go to : http://www.sidesaddleinfo.com/tip.html Feel free to look around the site, while you are there. Any costuming comments on attire? Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 8, 2006, at 9:41 AM, Karen R Bergquist wrote: > I'm not an expert on equestrian costume or riding side-saddle, but I > think these ladies ARE riding side-saddle. I can see the subtle outline > of the right leg wrapped around the saddle horn with the left leg > hanging > more or less vertically. As for the skirt spreading, I have seen it > done. > At Bristol, Mary Kababik, who plays Queen Elizabeth, has ridden in the > main parade on a side-saddle for the last 5 years and with the amount > of > fabric in her skirt it looks almost exactly like that. In this painting > the ladies aren't riding perpendicular to the horse, they are riding > more > or less parallel wi the horse with their lower body turned slightly to > the side. > > Just my ha'penny's worth, > > Karen > Seamstrix > > > > > On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:08:23 -0600 "Diane Maynard" > writes: >> I can tell you that that I believe that BOTH of these paintings are >> of women >> riding ASTRIDE. These are two of my favorite paintings and I have >> duplicated both of these gowns for myself. It takes a LOT of >> material to >> make the skirts of these gowns. If one is riding side-saddle, the >> gown will >> not "envelope" the hind quarters of the horse the way these gowns >> do. I >> side saddle gown will literally hang to the side of the legs >> (covering the >> legs)and not cover the hindquarters of the horse. >> >> Diane >> >> >> VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y >> Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian >> 1634-35 >> Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm >> Museo del Prado, Madrid >> http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg >> >> VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y >> Queen Margarita on Horseback >> 1634-35 >> Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm >> Museo del Prado, Madrid >> http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg >> >> It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or >> sidesaddle, but perhaps someone with more equestrian experience >> could >> venture. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 15:38:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28KcUeu010236 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:38:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28KcXZ4010344; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:38:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28Kbfdt064500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:37:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28KbSPb068876; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28KbILT068651 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:37:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55fe.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.254]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 75ECCA50039 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:37:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004901c642f0$1ba6fa70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:37:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for source of art. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 15:38:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F40C9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I browsed on Olgas gallery under Joshua Reynolds portraits. Gosh how wonderfull these are. There are so many ladies wearing turkish dress, and i wondered was this just a wim for portraits, or did they really dress in turkish some times? I also noticed that Georgiana Duchesse of Devonshire is portraited 2 times, the lady who often is quoted in costume books with the worries of tight laced corsets. Lastly i noticed that many of the names portraited, is names mentioned in Jane Austens books. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 17:43:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Mh1MB015912 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:43:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Mh43n003232; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:43:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28MgSmc086913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:42:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28MgJGw094718; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:42:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28MgCpB094582 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:42:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65A135CD74 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:42:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308143631.036d95b0@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:42:09 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for sources of art In-Reply-To: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:43:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F5DF8.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 08:29 PM 3/7/2006, you wrote: >I'm looking for more online galleries like The Web Gallery of Art at >wga.hu, sites with a large collection of searchable images and information >about those images. Can anyone suggest some new sites to visit? I'm >increasingly frustrated with museum sites that list little more than the >accession number along with a thumbnail. I really want to be able to see >the art in detail and read about the artist or the subject. > > >Dawn Hi Dawn, Have you tried Wikimedia Commons? For example, I've found a number of Renaissance era paintings in large detail http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Renaissance_paintings It is kinda hit or miss with background info, it's hard to search for anyone specific, and some images are not yet available, but I have otherwise managed to find images here that I've not seen elsewhere on the net. I also recently discovered a couple of prayer books at the Morgan Library, and I know there are more images on that site I haven't gotten to yet. http://www.morganlibrary.org The ones I was just looking at are: "Two Masterpieces Illuminated by Jean Poyet contains commentary on eighty-three images from the Prayer Book of Anne de Bretagne and the Hours of Henry VIII" http://www.morganlibrary.org/exhibitions/online/html/index_1024.html Click on the image to the left. The Hours of Henry VIII is similar to the Calendar of Simon Bening, with images of people at work. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 18:14:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NErPG016937 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:14:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NEuEc015441; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:14:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28NEMas093655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:14:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NEHUR024702; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:14:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NE68q024549 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:14:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB6E5D46F for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:13:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 15:13:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:14:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F6570.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hello All, The topic of Pirates at Renaissance events has been breached on another list, and it has me wondering... What would pirates or privateers of the English Renaissance looked like? I know what images of George Clifford, the "privateering" Earl looks like. I know what images of Raleigh, and Drake are like, but what would everyday privateers, pirates, or even basic seamen look like during the Elizabethan era? Thanks, Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Fresno, CA, USA "Lady of the Wardrobe" for Isle of Mann Guild Portraying at California's Central Valley Renaissance Faires Lady Clifford, Countess of Cumberland (Margaret Percy, Eleanor Brandon, or Margaret Russell) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 18:19:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NJNaw017095 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:19:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NJQtX016959; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:19:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28NJ8g2094692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:19:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NJ22k029620; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:19:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NIoCC029282 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:18:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE83A4142 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:18:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:18:43 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:19:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F667E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > I know what images of George Clifford, the "privateering" Earl looks > like. I know what images of Raleigh, and Drake are like, but what would > everyday privateers, pirates, or even basic seamen look like during the > Elizabethan era? > The Gentlemen of Fortune site gives the best explanation I've seen on the web: www.gentlemenoffortune.com Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 18:20:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NKoTv017138 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:20:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NKsAi027392; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:20:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28NKOmZ094910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:20:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NKJYV030992; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:20:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k28NK953030839 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:20:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 72611 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 23:20:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.142.33.104 with login) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 23:20:08 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060308231751.01d81210@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 23:20:14 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:20:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F66D6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 23:13 08/03/2006, you wrote: >Hello All, > >The topic of Pirates at Renaissance events has been breached on >another list, and it has me wondering... > >What would pirates or privateers of the English Renaissance looked like? > >I know what images of George Clifford, the "privateering" Earl looks >like. I know what images of Raleigh, and Drake are like, but what >would everyday privateers, pirates, or even basic seamen look like >during the Elizabethan era? > >Thanks, I was just looking at "Vecellio's Book of Costumes"(??) and it has several seafaring men depicted. I don't imagine pirates would be any different. It's a Dover book - I may have the title wrong, but the words "Vecellio" and "Costume" are in the title I'm certain. Suzi Thanks for the Books of Hours BTW - lovely. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 18:21:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NLH3o017163 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:21:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NLL9j002523; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:21:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28NL5x9094992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NL5oe031730; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NL19j031577 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:21:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2cf.490eec3 (15702) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:20:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID53-3d56440f66d13c4; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:20:50 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <7c44ec6c1155cb2e59f8ebb5bfddb241@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:20:44 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:21:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F66F1.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28NLH3o017163 Status: RO Thanks, Kate. Any one have the link to that print, handy, so I can catch up ? Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not long > ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the > upper half copying masculine attire. > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 16:33:00 >>> > Thanks, Melusine. > > From what I've learned, so far, riding clothes were not very different > from regular clothes until rather recently. Sidesaddles are also a > recent invention. I've heard that sidesaddles, as we understand the > term, did not exist prior to about 1800. I don't know if that is true. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 19:18:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k290IhI5019086 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:18:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k290IkkZ004397; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:18:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k290I7Iu004271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:18:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k290Hbkh085221; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:17:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net (vms044pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.44]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k290HUnF085060 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:17:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([162.84.113.26]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVU005YJ3H0YIB4@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:17:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:17:25 -0500 From: "RON CARNEGIE" Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <001b01c6430e$d7f441b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:18:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F7466.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Perhaps so, but it begins nearly a hundred years after the close of the Elizabethan era. Sailors of the Elizabethan period, based on period art wear loose venetians or what willlater be called slops. Some are shown closed at the bottom some are not. The upper body garments tend to be either close fitting doublets, or a loose smock sort of jacket referred to in the period as a cassock. The real obvious indicator of a sailor is the cap. The most notable ones being thrummed caps. Thrummed caps look in art like fur. They are made from strands of woll (thrum) being afixed through the weave of kit caps, not unlike the modern watch cap. Good art does exist out there. A number of Dutch maps shows mariner figures as does the Mariner's Mirror. Actually the Dutch version and the English version depict some different figures. I think it is just after the period, but there are the woodcuts of the BArents expeditions as well. Some art survivies depicting one of Frobisher's trips as well. There is also the image depicted in Vecellios that was earlier mentioned. Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? > Kimiko Small wrote: > > >> I know what images of George Clifford, the "privateering" Earl looks >> like. I know what images of Raleigh, and Drake are like, but what would >> everyday privateers, pirates, or even basic seamen look like during the >> Elizabethan era? >> > > > The Gentlemen of Fortune site gives the best explanation I've seen on the > web: > > www.gentlemenoffortune.com > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 21:50:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k292otdb024684 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:50:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k292owEx017763; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:51:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k292oW1A027010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:50:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k292oQ2I013654; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:50:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k292oNHh013609 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m61.in-tch.com [216.166.191.61]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k292fZA29094 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:41:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <004101c64325$38848e20$3dbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <030820061922.25251.440F2EFF0003F860000062A322007374789C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:57:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:51:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F9812.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Could this be what was called (at least in some 16th c. sources) a "safeguard?" --Sue, costuming but not horse, geek... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack > With what I have read and seen in paintings during the past few years of my own research; I've only seen women on horses with that cloth covering. What a saddle blanket! Now, I do want to add that not all women riders used this type of cloth covering. > > Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 22:38:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k293cWpG026213 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:38:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k293ca8j031570; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:38:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k293Zw4v031953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:35:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k293ZuJj047218; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:35:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [216.148.227.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k293ZqIP047097 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:35:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter80.comcast.net ([204.127.197.180]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060309033546m13001ndpte>; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 03:35:46 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter80.comcast.net; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 03:35:45 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 03:35:45 +0000 Message-Id: <030920060335.14924.440FA291000830C800003A4C22007601809C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:38:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440FA33C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sue, Let me check my papers and my books. I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Roscelin -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Sue Clemenger" > Could this be what was called (at least in some 16th c. sources) a > "safeguard?" > --Sue, costuming but not horse, geek... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 22:47:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k293lZUY026554 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:47:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k293lXIK001528; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:47:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k293lHs2033012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:47:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k293lC6h055457; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:47:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav24.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.96]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k293l5sl055350 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:46:56 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.46.112 by BAY106-DAV24.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 03:46:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.46.112] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "h-costume_indra_com" Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:46:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:46:42 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2006 03:46:56.0077 (UTC) FILETIME=[1C66F7D0:01C6432C] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] costuming Shakespeare X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:47:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440FA555.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k293lZUY026554 Status: RO After reading that hysterically funny list "THE THINGS I WILL NOT DO WHEN I DIRECT A SHAKESPEARE PRODUCTION, ON STAGE OR FILM" when this post came today on an SCA list, I thought it could be added to that list. Janet Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:42 PM Subject: RE: Truth is stranger... Was: [SCA-AE] Sterling Renn Faire Buffalo NY is fortunate enough to have Shakespeare in Park in Delaware Park. Their schedule is always advertised in advance. Once, they advertised Romeo and Juliet, we decided to make it a 'demo night' We went to the park in Italian Ren garb well prior to the starting time, we had samples of period munchies to give away and our jugglers were juggling with whatever props they were handed. Now, unbeknownst to everybody, because it was supposed to be a 'big surprize', R&J was being done in modern clothes that year. So, when the actors arrived and started climbing on stage, the audience members yelled at the 'misbehaving teenagers' to get off the stage because the play was scheduled to start soon and the actors were already in garb in the audience! They thought *we* were the actors! :D :D -- Dagonell _________________________________________________________________________ Sca-aethelmearc mailing list Send mail to discussion@aethelmearc.org to post to the list. Visit https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-aethelmearc for: more info, archives, subscription changes, etc. Please edit your posts to remove excess quotage. _________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 22:50:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k293nsoW026674 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:50:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k293nvaL002152; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:50:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k293nNFQ033324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:49:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k293nMEV057220; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:49:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28KJGdY050388 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:19:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.140.564dbb17 (15974) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:19:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID101-3e66440f3c33e0; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 15:19:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <030820061922.25251.440F2EFF0003F860000062A322007374789C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> References: <030820061922.25251.440F2EFF0003F860000062A322007374789C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:18:57 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:50:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440FA5E5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k293nsoW026674 Status: RO Do you think a saddle blanket this long and richly embellished was only for Royal Portraits? The horse cannot move much with all that fabric around its legs/feet. It would most likely walk. No galloping in this, unless the rider wanted to take a chance that the horse's legs would get tangled and they horse and rider would fall mightily- ( half a ton of horse moving at a fast pace=momentum!) One reason modern sidesaddle riders "evolved" the skirt to the much smaller Safety Apron (with matching breeches underneath it) was because women had been dragged to death when all that fabric of petticoats and skirts got tangled around the saddle pommels and could not release the woman from the galloping / jumping/ bucking horse. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 8, 2006, at 2:22 PM, roscelinlimoges@comcast.net wrote: > With what I have read and seen in paintings during the past few years > of my own research; I've only seen women on horses with that cloth > covering. What a saddle blanket! Now, I do want to add that not all > women riders used this type of cloth covering. > > Roscelin > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: tearoses@aol.com >> In both of these paintings, there seems to be a piece of cloth >> covering the >> horse to its ankles underneath the ladies' gowns. Was this a standard >> part of >> saddlery, or was it specific to lady riders? (To protect their >> skirts, maybe?) >> >> Tea Rose, who has ridden horses exactly twice in her life > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 23:28:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k294Sm9M028811 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:28:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k294SpDE013076; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:28:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k294SPFZ037779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:28:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k294SMpi086448; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:28:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.154]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k294SJvF086317 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:28:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter75.comcast.net ([204.127.197.157]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20060309042809m1400gis7qe>; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:28:09 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter75.comcast.net; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 04:28:08 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 04:28:08 +0000 Message-Id: <030920060428.8125.440FAED80006754700001FBD22064246139C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 23:28:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440FAF03.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sue, I can only find my books on war horses. But nothing on "safeguards". I know I have heard or seen that term before but not sure where right now. If I may ask, what are your sources? Roscelin -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Sue Clemenger" > Could this be what was called (at least in some 16th c. sources) a > "safeguard?" > --Sue, costuming but not horse, geek... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 04:24:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k299OeDJ002517 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:24:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k299Ohak006499; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:24:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k299NpO0078693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:23:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k299NjBo018149; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:23:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k299NfdO018030 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:23:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k299NY000723.; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:23:35 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 09:23:34 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 09:23:26 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k299NfdO018030 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 04:24:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440FF45B.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I searched the archive http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ for this year under "hunting" and found the thread. The picture is http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 23:20 >>> Thanks, Kate. Any one have the link to that print, handy, so I can catch up ? Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not long > ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the > upper half copying masculine attire. > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 04:42:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k299gHvM004312 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:42:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k299gL6J011212; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:42:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k299ftjJ080239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:41:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k299frke028905; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:41:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.147]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k299fmDv028822 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.143]) by mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060309094139.XSFO19792.mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:41:39 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.183.2]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060309094116.VVSU1416.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:41:16 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.1/277]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:40:47 +1300 Message-ID: <076d01c6435d$8b04b980$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com><00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> <000601c6423e$a7e5d220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorry for this, testing but also latest projects if you are bored. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:40:29 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 04:42:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440FF87D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Kia ora Bjarne, Sorry for the delay a nasty stomache bug made me very ill for the last 48 hours, I'm back to being able to email again! > > Latest projects are: > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/phantom/wishing.htm > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/dracula/2mina.htm > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/k/2cleves.htm > Hi Michaela, > Thanks for posting the links. I enjoyed it very much. Loved your bustle > dresses, and how the h.......did you make that picture with changeable > colours? Thank you Bjarne, I am looking forward to making thse dresses rather than just pinning them together on the form:) The flashing picture for here: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/k/2cleves.htm Was made by me taking a portrait and changing the colours in it to make 6 different pictures, then I made them smaller and used a different image editor to create an "animated gif". I've since simplified the style somewhat and have some progress images here: http://pinkdiamond.livejournal.com/tag/koeln Some of those entries haven't yet made it to my website but they will soon. As to the first part of my initial email.. this one went through immediately but an earlier email went through after it. I don't know if this was just at my end though. Hmmm.. I looked here: http://www.mail-archive.com/h-costume@mail.indra.com/maillist.html And the posts are arriving there in the same order as I'm getting them, so the issue seems to be either the indra server or upstream rather than downstream. It's just frustrating replying to a topic and finding your post lost and then found well after the topic has changed;) One of those things that are notoriously difficult to figure out and then dealw ith.. it doesn't happen too often though:) michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/277 - Release Date: 8/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 06:28:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29BScmA028579 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:28:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29BSgCw008053; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:28:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29BRxvB092887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:27:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29BRpYR005473; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:27:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29BRiVs005296 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:27:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-168-94.mn.res.rr.com [24.26.168.94]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29BRZ24007660 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 05:27:42 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309052033.01d26eb8@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 05:24:00 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 06:28:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410116A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Well, if you're interested in the middle of the 16th century, we have a bit of an idea of what was worn on the Mary Rose, which sank in 1545. There were a number of leather jerkins found, as well as some wool garment fragments, some wool flat caps, leather shoes... that sort of thing. The info shouldn't be too hard to track down if you look up the Mary Rose. Cheers, Danielle At 05:13 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >Hello All, > >The topic of Pirates at Renaissance events has been breached on >another list, and it has me wondering... > >What would pirates or privateers of the English Renaissance looked like? > >I know what images of George Clifford, the "privateering" Earl looks >like. I know what images of Raleigh, and Drake are like, but what >would everyday privateers, pirates, or even basic seamen look like >during the Elizabethan era? > >Thanks, > >Kimiko Small >http://www.kimiko1.com >Fresno, CA, USA > >"Lady of the Wardrobe" for Isle of Mann Guild >Portraying at California's Central Valley Renaissance Faires >Lady Clifford, Countess of Cumberland > (Margaret Percy, Eleanor Brandon, or Margaret Russell) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 08:50:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Dorhd017919 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:50:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29DovtI023821; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:51:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29DnDQX005955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:49:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Dn84t005705; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:49:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Dn3FB005651 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:49:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 186C226289C for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:48:59 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501c64380$3f3fab90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:49:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 08:51:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441032C1.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I just got an enquiry from a museum. Because this year it is renaissance year, a museum has purchased money to get 2 costumes done. I am asked to do them. I would make a dress after a portrait of Queen Sophie (the queen they remade the wedding dress for) - as a widow. A black dress, small white ruff and a black hood. Then i should also make a prince outfit for a boy, the chosen prince who died in 1647. This is rather late, and i dont think it has much to do with renaissance, but.......... Oh and i had promised myself from stopping making costumes, and besides, the outfits has to be finished in about 3 months. .............. Ah i really dont know, but would be very tempting Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:14:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEGAS020632 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEJVl020151; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FDcqW032216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:13:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FDckL077404; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:13:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29EmuNs055099 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:48:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C9FE47FEA7 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:48:51 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002501c64388$9dffad30$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:49:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:14:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410464C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have some portraits with riding costume like this print, 2 to be more precise. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" >I searched the archive http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ for this year under >"hunting" and found the thread. The picture is > http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 23:20 >>> > Thanks, Kate. > > Any one have the link to that print, handy, so I can catch up ? > > Susan > > "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel > too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark > Trail" by Louis L'Amour > > On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > >> We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not long >> ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the >> upper half copying masculine attire. >> >> Kate Bunting >> Librarian and 17th century reenactor >> > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:14:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEltW020651 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEpVl026395; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FEJP6032508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FEJNA078089; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29F60jp069914 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:06:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.29]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FHMiF-0005rd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:05:59 -0500 Message-ID: <28612777.1141916759330.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:05:58 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:14:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410466B.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bravo, Bjarne. What a fitting recognition for your wonderful skills and accomplishments! You sound as if you're very tempted. These projects sound like something a bit new for you, a chance to stretch... You COULD tell yourself that garments for exhibition aren't QUITE "costumes"...and so you wouldn't be breaking your promise to yourself not to make any more "costumes"... Keep us posted about what you decide! Best wishes, Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- >From: Bjarne og Leif Drews >Sent: Mar 9, 2006 8:49 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > >Hi, >I just got an enquiry from a museum. Because this year it is renaissance >year, a museum has purchased money to get 2 costumes done. I am asked to do >them. I would make a dress after a portrait of Queen Sophie (the queen they >remade the wedding dress for) - as a widow. A black dress, small white ruff >and a black hood. >Then i should also make a prince outfit for a boy, the chosen prince who >died in 1647. This is rather late, and i dont think it has much to do with >renaissance, but.......... >Oh and i had promised myself from stopping making costumes, and besides, >the outfits has to be finished in about 3 months. .............. >Ah i really dont know, but would be very tempting > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:14:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEqT5020652 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEuS5027721; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FEWEd032602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FEVjJ078332; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29F6o9I070695 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:06:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m212.in-tch.com [216.166.191.212]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k29Ew1A07609 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:58:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <001401c6438c$1a28c600$d4bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c64380$3f3fab90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:14:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104670.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Oh go for it, Bjarne! You *know* you want to! What a wonderful opportunity! Besides, they don't sound as complicated as some of the wonderful stuff you've shown us over the years, and, heck, you wouldn't have to worry about shipping it overseas, or wierd fitting issues, or anything! --Sue in Montana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:49 AM Subject: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > Hi, > I just got an enquiry from a museum. Because this year it is renaissance > year, a museum has purchased money to get 2 costumes done. I am asked to do > them. I would make a dress after a portrait of Queen Sophie (the queen they > remade the wedding dress for) - as a widow. A black dress, small white ruff > and a black hood. > Then i should also make a prince outfit for a boy, the chosen prince who > died in 1647. This is rather late, and i dont think it has much to do with > renaissance, but.......... > Oh and i had promised myself from stopping making costumes, and besides, > the outfits has to be finished in about 3 months. .............. > Ah i really dont know, but would be very tempting > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:14:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FErsg020655 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEvB5016717; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:15:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FEgM0032666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FEeoN078521; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao01.cox.net (eastrmmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FBZj3075092 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:11:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.160.220.19]) by eastrmmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20060309151124.KQML4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:11:24 -0500 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:11:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcZDhTlwhO1Hrk1bT5GdW+geAFE/ewABfXQg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <000501c64380$3f3fab90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: <20060309151124.KQML4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:15:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104671.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >Subject: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. >Oh and i had promised myself from stopping making costumes, and besides, >the outfits has to be finished in about 3 months. .............. >Ah i really dont know, but would be very tempting What a tremendous compliment!! It might be worth doing if they pay well enough. Then again, the type of work you do is priceless:) Anne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/277 - Release Date: 3/8/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:19:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FJHSE020793 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:19:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FJL1D023030; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:19:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FDClX032011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:13:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FD7m9076901; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:13:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29EjCUj051715 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:45:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.1a4.49a38fe2 (15901) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:45:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID94-3e1d44103f713bc; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 09:45:05 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:45:05 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:19:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104779.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k29FJHSE020793 Status: RO Thanks, Kate. Since I am new to this group, I must have just missed the January discussion of Sidesaddle and clothing. Does anyone know if the person doing that research for a paper on women's equestrian clothing, as mentioned in the archive, has written the paper or is it still in progress? As far as this picture, <> what makes it a riding habit rather than an everyday outfit? Any hints in the photo that I should be seeing but don't? Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 9, 2006, at 4:23 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > I searched the archive http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ for this year > under "hunting" and found the thread. The picture is > http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 23:20 >>> > Thanks, Kate. > > Any one have the link to that print, handy, so I can catch up ? > > Susan > > "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel > too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark > Trail" by Louis L'Amour > > On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > >> We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not long >> ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the >> upper half copying masculine attire. >> >> Kate Bunting >> Librarian and 17th century reenactor >> > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:35:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FZFUH021330 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:35:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FZJZK031049; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:35:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FYrTh035199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:34:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FYpK2098811; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:34:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FYk37098707 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:34:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AE6A6A50037 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:34:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000901c6438f$00eaa5c0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <28612777.1141916759330.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:34:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:35:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104B37.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It is very tempting. The style of this gown is late renaissance. With a farthingale a little bigger than the original in the spanish book. More like a crinoline style. White underskirt is slashed, and overdress has a small "peplum skirt" over the top. Ruff is edged with reticella lace and is not close fitted to the neck, but hangs down a little in the front, but it is starched. Cuffs are reticella lace. What a luck i baught the reproduktion lace from Michelas site in England. Could be very handy here. Style is like the van Dyke portraits or Rubens. She wears a hood wich is curved in each side of the forehead, black edged with lace. The museum is located in the county where this queen lived as a widdow, so this is why they want it. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > Bravo, Bjarne. What a fitting recognition for your wonderful skills and > accomplishments! > You sound as if you're very tempted. > These projects sound like something a bit new for you, a chance to > stretch... > You COULD tell yourself that garments for exhibition aren't QUITE > "costumes"...and so you wouldn't be breaking your promise to yourself not > to make any more "costumes"... > Keep us posted about what you decide! > Best wishes, > Ruth Anne Baumgartner > scholar gypsy and amateur costumer > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Bjarne og Leif Drews >>Sent: Mar 9, 2006 8:49 AM >>To: h-costume@indra.com >>Subject: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. >> >>Hi, >>I just got an enquiry from a museum. Because this year it is renaissance >>year, a museum has purchased money to get 2 costumes done. I am asked to >>do >>them. I would make a dress after a portrait of Queen Sophie (the queen >>they >>remade the wedding dress for) - as a widow. A black dress, small white >>ruff >>and a black hood. >>Then i should also make a prince outfit for a boy, the chosen prince who >>died in 1647. This is rather late, and i dont think it has much to do with >>renaissance, but.......... >>Oh and i had promised myself from stopping making costumes, and besides, >>the outfits has to be finished in about 3 months. .............. >>Ah i really dont know, but would be very tempting >> >>Bjarne >> >> >> >> >> >>Leif og Bjarne Drews >>www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >>http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:39:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FdvCE021565 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:39:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Fe1xS000840; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:40:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FdebH035804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:39:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FdcKX003515; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:39:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FdCxt003092 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:39:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 96890262840 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:39:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:39:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] mitts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:40:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104C51.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I am working on making mitts with floral embroidery. I use a pattern from Williamsburg. Made a muck up wich fits my hand very nicely, i have small hands, so i guess they would fit a woman two. My question is wich stitches do you use to make these? And is the lining made seperate and assembled later, or do you make the lining same time as the outer layer? The thumb must be difficult to assemble and the stitches must be very strong, but wich stitches? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:42:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FgkEN021652 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:42:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Fgodv002506; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:42:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FfsQp036149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:41:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Ffq1A005803; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:41:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FflK0005609 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:41:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k29Ffe016832.; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:41:40 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:41:40 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:41:30 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k29FflK0005609 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:42:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104CFA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Well, the caption says it's a hunting costume, and the coat, neckcloth, hairstyle and hat are copies from those worn by men at that time. A few decades earlier Samuel Pepys commented on the new fashion for ladies' riding outfits with the upper garments "for all the world like mine" but with a long skirt underneath. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> pasovasz@aol.com 09/03/2006 14:45 >>> As far as this picture, <> what makes it a riding habit rather than an everyday outfit? Any hints in the photo that I should be seeing but don't? ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:43:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FhtqD021696 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:43:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FhwCG014937; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:44:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FhUWZ036505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:43:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FhTOv007566; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:43:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FhNXb007449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:43:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:19386 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FHNIU-0005Md-6W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 09:43:27 -0600 Message-ID: <344c01c64390$32b5e190$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c64380$3f3fab90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:43:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:44:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104D3F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Three months? Oww. Is this the portrait of Queen Sophie you'd be doing? http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg (different cap color, but I couldn't find anything else in a quick search) Do you know what the whole dress would look like already? The wedding dress is over 30 years earlier, so it probably wouldn't help... you might have to put in some research time, which would make the 3 months time limit harder. Is this the prince? http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg I have no doubt you could do it if you set your mind to it, Bjarne, but it sounds like a bit of a headache to me! Would they consider allowing more time for it and is the money enough to be tempting? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:46:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FkrHE021773 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:46:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FkuIZ004820; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:46:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FiGXa036593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:44:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FiECG008342; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:44:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Fi8n9008108 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:44:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.bd.6aad3e53 (48552) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:43:40 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:43:39 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:46:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104DF0.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:15:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ladyanne@quik.com writes: What a tremendous compliment!! It might be worth doing if they pay well enough. Then again, the type of work you do is priceless:) Exactly! Demand they pay for a competent assistant! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:49:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FnfMq021848 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:49:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FnjRL006181; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:49:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Fn5Cm037126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:49:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Fn017013318; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:49:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Fmsuk013111 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:48:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.204.122759c6 (48552) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:48:42 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <204.122759c6.3141a85a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:48:42 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:49:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104E99.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:35:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: The style of this gown is late renaissance. She wears a hood wich is curved in each side of the forehead, black edged with lace. ******************** A "widow's peak". And the Prince's outfit sounds like it might be fun too. I'm sure they dressed him like a little adult, no? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:49:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Fnp7r021862 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:49:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FntDm019233; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:49:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FnFe6037158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:49:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FnEJp013594; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:49:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Fn8UI013463 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:49:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D5050A5003A for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:49:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:49:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:49:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104EA3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations like hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this was only used for hunting. The tricorne, her Steinkirke cravate, the jacket with the big cuffs, the way the buttonholes are worked and all the buttons. At this time when this print was made, women didnt wear tricornes for daily wear, but they wore Fontanges wich are caps with high extended starched laces round the forehead. Also her wig is masculin, a fully bottomed wig with lots of curls, was only worn with this kind of outfit. The only hair shown for ladies this time, was small curls on the forehead just below the fontange. In the back, the hair was hided in a cape. The daily wear uniform for women was the mantua, wich was an open robe with a matching petticoat. Mantua was mostly draped at each hip (lifted up with loops and buttons) Sleaves did have cufs, but these usually was attached by the elbows, where the shift showed. I have seen portraits from this period where women wears a more relaxed style of dress, with t-shaped bodices and loose skirts, wich could be daily wear. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Data-Samtak" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Thanks, Kate. Since I am new to this group, I must have just missed the January discussion of Sidesaddle and clothing. Does anyone know if the person doing that research for a paper on women's equestrian clothing, as mentioned in the archive, has written the paper or is it still in progress? As far as this picture, <> what makes it a riding habit rather than an everyday outfit? Any hints in the photo that I should be seeing but don't? Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 9, 2006, at 4:23 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > I searched the archive http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ for this year > under "hunting" and found the thread. The picture is > http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 23:20 >>> > Thanks, Kate. > > Any one have the link to that print, handy, so I can catch up ? > > Susan > > "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel > too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark > Trail" by Louis L'Amour > > On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > >> We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not long >> ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the >> upper half copying masculine attire. >> >> Kate Bunting >> Librarian and 17th century reenactor >> > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:50:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FoTia021899 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:50:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FoWkI004582; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:50:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FoFO8037342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:50:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FoEd4014707; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:50:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k29FoALI014659 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:50:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 26277 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2006 15:50:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.142.33.104 with login) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2006 15:50:09 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309154758.01ddd970@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:49:53 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <344c01c64390$32b5e190$e100a8c0@compaqub> References: <000501c64380$3f3fab90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <344c01c64390$32b5e190$e100a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ruff - was Bjarne's dilemma X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:50:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104EC8.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 15:43 09/03/2006, you wrote: >Three months? Oww. Is this the portrait of Queen Sophie you'd be doing? >http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg (different cap >color, but I couldn't find anything else in a quick search) >Do you know what the whole dress would look like already? The >wedding dress is over 30 years earlier, so it probably wouldn't >help... you might have to put in some research time, which would >make the 3 months time limit harder. What a complicated ruff! I've never seen anything like that. I am trying really hard to work it out. Am I mad to think it might be two layers of fabric, instead of one - one to make the standard ruff and one to make the doubles inside? >Is this the prince? >http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg > >I have no doubt you could do it if you set your mind to it, Bjarne, >but it sounds like a bit of a headache to me! Would they consider >allowing more time for it and is the money enough to be tempting? > >-E House > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:53:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FrM4t021990 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:53:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FrQpJ008088; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:53:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Fqb9i037650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:52:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FqZxl017150; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:52:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FqVsl016952 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:52:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2f6.3085d2 (48552) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:52:20 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2f6.3085d2.3141a934@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:52:20 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:53:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104F76.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, formfunc@formfunction.org writes: http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg What a bizzare ruff! A ruff inside a ruff! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:58:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FwQwg022164 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:58:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FwU4n010641; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:58:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Fw4Nf038311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:58:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Fw34E022868; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:58:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav5.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.77]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Fvxqp022654 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:58:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:57:53 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:57:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2f6.3085d2.3141a934@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:57:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2006 15:57:53.0435 (UTC) FILETIME=[396CB6B0:01C64392] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:58:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441050A6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It's not as complicated as it looks. Make a ruff with 2 layers. Form a main ruff that has all layers. When that is properly spaced. bring the inside ruff down into points inside the loops of the outter fabric. It's like origami. I can visualize it but may not explain it well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > > http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg > > > What a bizzare ruff! A ruff inside a ruff! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:07:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29G7ExE022451 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:07:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29G7IaB015401; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:07:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29G6Grj039362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:06:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G6C1A031105; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:06:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G64JW030942 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:06:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DBA86262896 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:05:59 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002b01c64393$60cdee80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c64380$3f3fab90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><344c01c64390$32b5e190$e100a8c0@compaqub> <6.2.3.4.0.20060309154758.01ddd970@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff - was Bjarne's dilemma Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:06:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:07:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441052B6.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have a photo i took at the museum some time ago, i could post it if you want, but it is a portrait wich hangs very high up, so the angle of the photo is not good, but it gives you an idea. The princes outfit is like a small adult with hat and feathers. Its red and slashed. Anyway just posted the pic for you to see. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sophie.htm Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:49 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ruff - was Bjarne's dilemma > At 15:43 09/03/2006, you wrote: >>Three months? Oww. Is this the portrait of Queen Sophie you'd be doing? >>http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg (different cap color, >>but I couldn't find anything else in a quick search) >>Do you know what the whole dress would look like already? The wedding >>dress is over 30 years earlier, so it probably wouldn't help... you might >>have to put in some research time, which would make the 3 months time >>limit harder. > > > What a complicated ruff! I've never seen anything like that. I am trying > really hard to work it out. Am I mad to think it might be two layers of > fabric, instead of one - one to make the standard ruff and one to make the > doubles inside? > >>Is this the prince? >>http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg >> >>I have no doubt you could do it if you set your mind to it, Bjarne, but it >>sounds like a bit of a headache to me! Would they consider allowing more >>time for it and is the money enough to be tempting? >> >>-E House >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:07:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29G7RJ0022455 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:07:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29G7U98031709; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:07:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29G6b8D039427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:06:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G6aWV031548; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:06:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from warspite.concentric.com (warspite.concentric.com [207.155.248.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G6V1e031455 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:06:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: from PURCHASING ([207.67.223.71]) by warspite.concentric.com id LAA07249; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:06:30 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> From: "Julie" To: References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:06:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:07:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441052C2.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The temptation to make a rude pun is almost overwhelming...but I'll resist They would wear what everyone else would wear. There was no particular "uniform" of a pirate. I looked into this when my huibby was giving me grief about dressing up. What we think of as "pirates" is out of period...the great coat, the striped clothes, etc. Darn. My hubby as Captain Jack...hmmm...... Hubby said he'd wear a great coat & tall boots. Tunics are dresses... Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:10:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GA78C022542 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:10:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GAB6m017036; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:10:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29G8BxV039673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:08:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FsK1w018883; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:54:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FsDMt018622 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:54:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.66.6942b7e0 (48552) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:53:58 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <66.6942b7e0.3141a996@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:53:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:10:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44105363.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, formfunc@formfunction.org writes: _http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg_ (http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg) I imagined the prince as a boy....like an adolescent. Oh well..... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:14:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GEObf022748 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:14:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GESIg019215; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:14:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29G8aZb039809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:08:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G87Rx032839; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:08:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G7XWT032280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:07:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29G7Cfn085627 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:07:12 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:07:12 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19542.65.117.156.5.1141920432.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:07:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:14:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44105464.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Are you overlapping the seams or are you sewing the right sides together and then turning them over? I have a one sheet example of stitches used through the periods for gloves that I can share with you. It is from observational research as I am not able to go to the various overseas museums that have the gloves. One local university recently obtained some gloves that they want me to come over the catalog for them. I am hoping some are from the Elizabethan era. :) Chiara On Thu, March 9, 2006 9:39 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: > Hi, > I am working on making mitts with floral embroidery. I use a pattern > from > Williamsburg. Made a muck up wich fits my hand very nicely, i have > small > hands, so i guess they would fit a woman two. My question is wich > stitches > do you use to make these? And is the lining made seperate and > assembled > later, or do you make the lining same time as the outer layer? The > thumb > must be difficult to assemble and the stitches must be very strong, > but wich > stitches? > > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:15:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GFj2B022796 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GFnAa011146; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GFJkP040861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:15:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GFD51040447; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:15:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GF38d040272 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:15:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A561E262848 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:14:58 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003a01c64394$a42b26b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <19542.65.117.156.5.1141920432.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:15:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:15:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441054B5.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thanks Chiara, I think i would like to sew the right sides together and turn, but i really would like to know more, if you have any informations about the stitches i would be very happy :-) I am thinking about you cant sew on the thumbs and then turn, how do you attach these last, and wich stitches do you do for this? Rubbish, off cause i can sew on the tumbs and turn, i am a little confused right now, its the museum dress in my head! No problems then, but do you think backstitching would be ok to use? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts > Are you overlapping the seams or are you sewing the right sides > together and then turning them over? > > I have a one sheet example of stitches used through the periods for > gloves that I can share with you. It is from observational research > as I am not able to go to the various overseas museums that have the > gloves. > > One local university recently obtained some gloves that they want me > to come over the catalog for them. I am hoping some are from the > Elizabethan era. :) > > Chiara > > > On Thu, March 9, 2006 9:39 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: >> Hi, >> I am working on making mitts with floral embroidery. I use a pattern >> from >> Williamsburg. Made a muck up wich fits my hand very nicely, i have >> small >> hands, so i guess they would fit a woman two. My question is wich >> stitches >> do you use to make these? And is the lining made seperate and >> assembled >> later, or do you make the lining same time as the outer layer? The >> thumb >> must be difficult to assemble and the stitches must be very strong, >> but wich >> stitches? >> >> >> Bjarne >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > Franchesca Havas > ---------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:15:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GFkbx022798 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GFlRT005276; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29G58eq039188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:05:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G56kW029973; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:05:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G52AA029784 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:05:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.267.7176d13 (15699) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:04:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID51-3d53441052223b6; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:04:50 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: <7d94cd7a9ea31e072ca081bb3d5665e2@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:04:48 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:15:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441054B3.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k29GFkbx022798 Status: RO Thank you so much, Bjarne. Such a wealth of knowledge in this group. Thanks to all for sharing. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 9, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations like > hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this was only > used for hunting. The tricorne, her Steinkirke cravate, the jacket > with the big cuffs, the way the buttonholes are worked and all the > buttons. At this time when this print was made, women didnt wear > tricornes for daily wear, but they wore Fontanges wich are caps with > high extended starched laces round the forehead. Also her wig is > masculin, a fully bottomed wig with lots of curls, was only worn with > this kind of outfit. The only hair shown for ladies this time, was > small curls on the forehead just below the fontange. In the back, the > hair was hided in a cape. > The daily wear uniform for women was the mantua, wich was an open robe > with a matching petticoat. Mantua was mostly draped at each hip > (lifted up with loops and buttons) Sleaves did have cufs, but these > usually was attached by the elbows, where the shift showed. > I have seen portraits from this period where women wears a more > relaxed style of dress, with t-shaped bodices and loose skirts, wich > could be daily wear. > > Bjarne > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Data-Samtak" > > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:45 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > > > Thanks, Kate. > > Since I am new to this group, I must have just missed the January > discussion of Sidesaddle and clothing. > > Does anyone know if the person doing that research for a paper on > women's equestrian clothing, as mentioned in the archive, has written > the paper or is it still in progress? > > As far as this picture, > <> what > makes it a riding habit rather than an everyday outfit? Any hints in > the photo that I should be seeing but don't? > > Susan > > "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel > too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark > Trail" by Louis L'Amour > > On Mar 9, 2006, at 4:23 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > >> I searched the archive http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ for this year >> under "hunting" and found the thread. The picture is >> http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg >> >> Kate Bunting >> Librarian and 17th century reenactor >> >>>>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 23:20 >>> >> Thanks, Kate. >> >> Any one have the link to that print, handy, so I can catch up ? >> >> Susan >> >> "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel >> too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark >> Trail" by Louis L'Amour >> >> On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: >> >>> We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not >>> long >>> ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the >>> upper half copying masculine attire. >>> >>> Kate Bunting >>> Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:22:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GM2RU023071 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:22:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GM6Q3023333; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:22:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GLGEv041826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:21:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GLDGr046922; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:21:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [207.215.93.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GL6FO046746 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:21:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (66-81-45-78.nocal.dialup.o1.com [66.81.45.78]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id k29GMkk00340 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:22:46 -0800 Message-ID: <004901c64393$5d12bb40$4e2d5142@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <2f6.3085d2.3141a934@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:06:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:22:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410562E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: > > What a bizzare ruff! A ruff inside a ruff! Yes, I've been staring at it and I can't see how it would be possible. The geometry is all off. I suspect this is artistic liscense, not a real garment. Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:22:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GMOeR023086 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:22:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GMS1G010078; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:22:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GKhi9041713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GKgPa046458; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:20:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GKcQ0046349 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:20:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 81DF5262850 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:20:37 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004901c64395$6e6552c0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <66.6942b7e0.3141a996@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:20:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:22:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44105644.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO No worries Albertcat, its not the prince, but the queen you see in the portrait from Rosenborg. I dont have a picture of the prince to share right now, but i know the portrait, its a boy dressed in a red doublet with trunkhoses. All the costume is slashed and the hat wich i dont know how i would make is a tall hat naturally leather colour with red feathers. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > > _http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg_ > (http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg) > > > > > > I imagined the prince as a boy....like an adolescent. Oh well..... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:32:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GW7Oq023477 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:32:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GWADp028546; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:32:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GUNjt043474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:30:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GULLW056558; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:30:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.gorrie.wightman.ca [216.110.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GUGN6056473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:30:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id 24AFC84A50; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:30:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from MAIN (unknown [216.110.230.30]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F3284A03 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:30:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:29:41 -0500 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000501c64396$be2355e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on server01.gorrie X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-2.82, HTML_60_70=0.027,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:32:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410588B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k29GW7Oq023477 Status: RO Thought some of you who re-enact Victorian and Dickens eras would be interested in the new pattern from Laughing Moon (I'm just waiting for my new stock to arrive). It's the Hoops and Bustles package, LM112. Looks like another fabulous addition to this premiere line of patterns. For details you can visit http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_1058.html which will take you to that specific pattern. There's also been a wonderful addition to the Laughing Moon Men's Frock Coat pattern, in that in now includes a single-breasted, as well as the double-breasted frock coat, with the original two vests that were included in the pattern. Again, I'm just waiting for my new stock to arrive. You can view that pattern at: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_776.html Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:47:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Glieg024063 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:47:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GlmKB003913; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:47:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GkXUB046315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:46:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GkVUt071784; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:46:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GkNvm071577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:46:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GSUiJ087201 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:28:30 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:28:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <53364.65.117.156.5.1141921710.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: <003a01c64394$a42b26b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <19542.65.117.156.5.1141920432.squirrel@webmail.io.com> <003a01c64394$a42b26b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:28:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:47:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44105C34.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO So long as you are not using a glover's needle backstitcing is fine. The glovers needle has that three sided cutting edge to it for leather and will cut the thread. For the thumb, you want to put that in first. You can do an overlap seam for that if you wish. That is, place the thumb piece inside the trank of the mitt and sew on the first layer down into the second layer that is the thumb. Are these fabric or leather? Any chance you can send us a thumbnail of what the finished product should look like? Or a museum link of a pair of mitts these were based on? Chiara On Thu, March 9, 2006 10:15 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: > Thanks Chiara, > I think i would like to sew the right sides together and turn, but i > really > would like to know more, if you have any informations about the > stitches i > would be very happy :-) > I am thinking about you cant sew on the thumbs and then turn, how do > you > attach these last, and wich stitches do you do for this? > Rubbish, off cause i can sew on the tumbs and turn, i am a little > confused > right now, its the museum dress in my head! > No problems then, but do you think backstitching would be ok to use? > > Bjarne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:07 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts > > >> Are you overlapping the seams or are you sewing the right sides >> together and then turning them over? >> >> I have a one sheet example of stitches used through the periods >> for >> gloves that I can share with you. It is from observational >> research >> as I am not able to go to the various overseas museums that have >> the >> gloves. >> >> One local university recently obtained some gloves that they want >> me >> to come over the catalog for them. I am hoping some are from the >> Elizabethan era. :) >> >> Chiara >> >> >> On Thu, March 9, 2006 9:39 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: >>> Hi, >>> I am working on making mitts with floral embroidery. I use a >>> pattern >>> from >>> Williamsburg. Made a muck up wich fits my hand very nicely, i >>> have >>> small >>> hands, so i guess they would fit a woman two. My question is wich >>> stitches >>> do you use to make these? And is the lining made seperate and >>> assembled >>> later, or do you make the lining same time as the outer layer? >>> The >>> thumb >>> must be difficult to assemble and the stitches must be very >>> strong, >>> but wich >>> stitches? >>> >>> >>> Bjarne >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Leif og Bjarne Drews >>> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >>> >>> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> >> Franchesca Havas >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:53:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Gr7CY024283 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:53:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GrBNG006712; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:53:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GjFva046070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:45:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GjBMa070557; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:45:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f23.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Gj7ZK070454 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:45:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:43:45 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 16:43:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.81] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:43:45 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2006 16:43:45.0927 (UTC) FILETIME=[A209A970:01C64398] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: what do renaissance seamen look like? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:53:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44105D77.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg >Well, if you're interested in the middle of the 16th century, we have >a bit of an idea of what was worn on the Mary Rose, which sank in >1545. There were a number of leather jerkins found, as well as some >wool garment fragments, some wool flat caps, leather shoes... that >sort of thing. The info shouldn't be too hard to track down if you >look up the Mary Rose. There are also the excavations from Red Bay, Labrador and the wreck of the San Juan (1565). Although I haven't found documentation on more than the shoes, I'm told that the graves of the Basque seamen had clothes that were excavated. BTW, it is most likely (speaking of shoes) that common seamen were wearing turnshoes like: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOES/redbay5.html. Non-turned shoes, when found, being more expensive possibly denote officers. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 12:13:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29HDDrR025072 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:13:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29HDG7R016459; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:13:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29HCH03050650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:12:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29HC4W6094959; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:12:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29HBui5094817 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CDB7F262871 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:11:51 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c6439c$94639070$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><19542.65.117.156.5.1141920432.squirrel@webmail.io.com><003a01c64394$a42b26b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <53364.65.117.156.5.1141921710.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:11:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:13:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410622C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dear Dhiara, Many thanks for your help. I want to make them in ivory silk taffeta. You can see the design i made here, with colours of embroiderysilks: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purse.htm Scroll down to the buttom. I want to make the outer layer in silk taffeta, and a shite silk satin wich is thinner and softer for the lining. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts > So long as you are not using a glover's needle backstitcing is fine. > The glovers needle has that three sided cutting edge to it for > leather and will cut the thread. > > For the thumb, you want to put that in first. You can do an overlap > seam for that if you wish. That is, place the thumb piece inside the > trank of the mitt and sew on the first layer down into the second > layer that is the thumb. > > Are these fabric or leather? > > Any chance you can send us a thumbnail of what the finished product > should look like? Or a museum link of a pair of mitts these were > based on? > > Chiara > > > On Thu, March 9, 2006 10:15 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: >> Thanks Chiara, >> I think i would like to sew the right sides together and turn, but i >> really >> would like to know more, if you have any informations about the >> stitches i >> would be very happy :-) >> I am thinking about you cant sew on the thumbs and then turn, how do >> you >> attach these last, and wich stitches do you do for this? >> Rubbish, off cause i can sew on the tumbs and turn, i am a little >> confused >> right now, its the museum dress in my head! >> No problems then, but do you think backstitching would be ok to use? >> >> Bjarne >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" >> To: "Historical Costume" >> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts >> >> >>> Are you overlapping the seams or are you sewing the right sides >>> together and then turning them over? >>> >>> I have a one sheet example of stitches used through the periods >>> for >>> gloves that I can share with you. It is from observational >>> research >>> as I am not able to go to the various overseas museums that have >>> the >>> gloves. >>> >>> One local university recently obtained some gloves that they want >>> me >>> to come over the catalog for them. I am hoping some are from the >>> Elizabethan era. :) >>> >>> Chiara >>> >>> >>> On Thu, March 9, 2006 9:39 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: >>>> Hi, >>>> I am working on making mitts with floral embroidery. I use a >>>> pattern >>>> from >>>> Williamsburg. Made a muck up wich fits my hand very nicely, i >>>> have >>>> small >>>> hands, so i guess they would fit a woman two. My question is wich >>>> stitches >>>> do you use to make these? And is the lining made seperate and >>>> assembled >>>> later, or do you make the lining same time as the outer layer? >>>> The >>>> thumb >>>> must be difficult to assemble and the stitches must be very >>>> strong, >>>> but wich >>>> stitches? >>>> >>>> >>>> Bjarne >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Leif og Bjarne Drews >>>> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >>>> >>>> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>> >>> >>> >>> Franchesca Havas >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > Franchesca Havas > ---------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 12:22:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29HM8pC025464 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:22:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29HMCUD020331; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:22:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29HLYKm051944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:21:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29HK3v6002643; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:20:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29HJtj7002348 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:19:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-1389.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.85.111]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F16F4319199 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:00:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:00:05 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New pattern References: <000501c64396$be2355e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> In-Reply-To: <000501c64396$be2355e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060309170006.F16F4319199@pelian.kabelfoon.nl> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:22:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44106444.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Somehow I find the hoops and bustles a bit weird looking. I am not sure what it is. Five Rivers Chapmanry wrote: > Thought some of you who re-enact Victorian and Dickens eras >would be interested in the new pattern from Laughing Moon (I'm just waiting >for my new stock to arrive). It's the Hoops and Bustles package, LM112. >Looks like another fabulous addition to this premiere line of patterns. For >details you can visit http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_1058.html which will >take you to that specific pattern. > > > > There's also been a wonderful addition to the Laughing Moon >Men's Frock Coat pattern, in that in now includes a single-breasted, as well >as the double-breasted frock coat, with the original two vests that were >included in the pattern. Again, I'm just waiting for my new stock to arrive. >You can view that pattern at: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_776.html > > > >Regards, > >Lorina > >Five Rivers Chapmanry > >purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, >re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. > >519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 12:53:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29HrZQA026556 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:53:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29HrcLd000874; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:53:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29HmHqa056000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:48:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29HlrFd026244; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:47:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29HlgPo026017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:47:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ches@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29HYF7q092679 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:34:15 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ches@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:34:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <12240.65.117.156.5.1141925655.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: <000701c6439c$94639070$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><19542.65.117.156.5.1141920432.squirrel@webmail.io.com><003a01c64394$a42b26b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <53364.65.117.156.5.1141921710.squirrel@webmail.io.com> <000701c6439c$94639070$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:34:15 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts From: "Franchesca" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:53:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44106BA2.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Beautiful as always Bjarne! The lining is attached at the finger tips for gloves. The same would apply here. Attach at the top of the mitt and at the top of the thumb. Then attach it at the cuff. Leave the side seams unattached. Make sure you allow the fabric for the mitt and the lining to hang so that it stretches out first. You do not want something this delicate to have a lininig no longer fit because one or the other stretched out over time. Definitely right sides together on the thumb. :) Chiara On Thu, March 9, 2006 11:11 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: > Dear Dhiara, > Many thanks for your help. > I want to make them in ivory silk taffeta. You can see the design i > made > here, with colours of embroiderysilks: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purse.htm > Scroll down to the buttom. > I want to make the outer layer in silk taffeta, and a shite silk > satin wich > is thinner and softer for the lining. > > Bjarne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:28 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts > > >> So long as you are not using a glover's needle backstitcing is >> fine. >> The glovers needle has that three sided cutting edge to it for >> leather and will cut the thread. >> >> For the thumb, you want to put that in first. You can do an >> overlap >> seam for that if you wish. That is, place the thumb piece inside >> the >> trank of the mitt and sew on the first layer down into the second >> layer that is the thumb. >> >> Are these fabric or leather? >> >> Any chance you can send us a thumbnail of what the finished >> product >> should look like? Or a museum link of a pair of mitts these were >> based on? >> >> Chiara >> >> >> On Thu, March 9, 2006 10:15 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: >>> Thanks Chiara, >>> I think i would like to sew the right sides together and turn, >>> but i >>> really >>> would like to know more, if you have any informations about the >>> stitches i >>> would be very happy :-) >>> I am thinking about you cant sew on the thumbs and then turn, how >>> do >>> you >>> attach these last, and wich stitches do you do for this? >>> Rubbish, off cause i can sew on the tumbs and turn, i am a little >>> confused >>> right now, its the museum dress in my head! >>> No problems then, but do you think backstitching would be ok to >>> use? >>> >>> Bjarne >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" >>> To: "Historical Costume" >>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:07 PM >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts >>> >>> >>>> Are you overlapping the seams or are you sewing the right sides >>>> together and then turning them over? >>>> >>>> I have a one sheet example of stitches used through the periods >>>> for >>>> gloves that I can share with you. It is from observational >>>> research >>>> as I am not able to go to the various overseas museums that have >>>> the >>>> gloves. >>>> >>>> One local university recently obtained some gloves that they >>>> want >>>> me >>>> to come over the catalog for them. I am hoping some are from the >>>> Elizabethan era. :) >>>> >>>> Chiara >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, March 9, 2006 9:39 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I am working on making mitts with floral embroidery. I use a >>>>> pattern >>>>> from >>>>> Williamsburg. Made a muck up wich fits my hand very nicely, i >>>>> have >>>>> small >>>>> hands, so i guess they would fit a woman two. My question is >>>>> wich >>>>> stitches >>>>> do you use to make these? And is the lining made seperate and >>>>> assembled >>>>> later, or do you make the lining same time as the outer layer? >>>>> The >>>>> thumb >>>>> must be difficult to assemble and the stitches must be very >>>>> strong, >>>>> but wich >>>>> stitches? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Bjarne >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Leif og Bjarne Drews >>>>> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >>>>> >>>>> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Franchesca Havas >>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> >> Franchesca Havas >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 13:15:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29IFWiJ027345 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:15:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29IFa32010243; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:15:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29IFB8O060307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29IF0rE050274; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29IEfkC049932 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:14:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07B15A296A for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:14:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:14:50 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:15:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441070C8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations like > hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this was only > used for hunting. The tricorne, her Steinkirke cravate, the jacket with > the big cuffs, the way the buttonholes are worked and all the buttons. >> http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg >> Does anyone know what portrait this drawing is based on? From what I can determine, Leloir's costume books came out in the mid 1800's. I'd like to see some of his sources, including the ones for this image: http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/47_1693-98.jpg Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 15:26:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29KQ5MK031515 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:26:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29KQ9OF003589; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:26:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29KPF24078432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:25:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29KORvM059645; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:24:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k29KOFXU059391 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:24:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 88592 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2006 20:17:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.142.33.104 with login) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2006 20:17:29 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309201658.01d841c8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 20:17:35 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" In-Reply-To: <4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:26:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44108F61.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 18:14 09/03/2006, you wrote: >Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >>A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations >>like hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this >>was only used for hunting. The tricorne, her Steinkirke cravate, >>the jacket with the big cuffs, the way the buttonholes are worked >>and all the buttons. > > >>>http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg > >Does anyone know what portrait this drawing is based on? From what I >can determine, Leloir's costume books came out in the mid 1800's. >I'd like to see some of his sources, including the ones for this image: > > >http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/47_1693-98.jpg This is one of the series I am talking about, and it is by Bonnart! http://www.allposters.com/-sp/The-Summer-city-dress-1678_i1344960_.htm?aid=974174 Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 15:39:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Kdwvj032088 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:39:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Ke2N0009994; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:40:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Kc4mO080285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:38:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Kbulw070868; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:37:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k29Kbk77070655 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:37:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 70558 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2006 20:11:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.142.33.104 with login) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2006 20:11:06 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309200839.01de18c0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 20:11:14 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" In-Reply-To: <4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:40:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441092A2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 18:14 09/03/2006, you wrote: >Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >>A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations >>like hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this >>was only used for hunting. The tricorne, her Steinkirke cravate, >>the jacket with the big cuffs, the way the buttonholes are worked >>and all the buttons. > > >>>http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg > >Does anyone know what portrait this drawing is based on? From what I >can determine, Leloir's costume books came out in the mid 1800's. >I'd like to see some of his sources, including the ones for this image: > > >http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/47_1693-98.jpg > > >Dawn I suspect these are redrawn from a series of fashion plates which were published in France in the late 17th century. I have copies of others in a similar style. The artist Bonnart springs to mind, but I don't guarantee anything, as I am currently having a "hot flush" (English version) and am as a consequence in the "brainsaremush" state. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 15:58:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29KwB3i000326 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:58:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29KwFTw019412; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:58:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29KvxUg082342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:57:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29KvZQd086647; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:57:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29IlClP078633 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:47:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A1640360; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:18:12 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.158 ([209.131.80.158] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 9 Mar 2006 13:18:06 -0500 Message-ID: <004501c643a6$22928e60$9e5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c64396$be2355e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> <20060309170006.F16F4319199@pelian.kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New pattern Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:20:23 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:58:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441096E7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO These hoops and bustles are wonderful, Lorena! I have the first one and the last as antiques and you have made them up just as they should be. The last one differs only from mine in that the train part button of mine buttons onto the hem of the main hoop shape. Bravo Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New pattern > Somehow I find the hoops and bustles a bit weird looking. > I am not sure what it is. > > > Five Rivers Chapmanry wrote: > > > Thought some of you who re-enact Victorian and Dickens eras > >would be interested in the new pattern from Laughing Moon (I'm just waiting > >for my new stock to arrive). It's the Hoops and Bustles package, LM112. > >Looks like another fabulous addition to this premiere line of patterns. For > >details you can visit http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_1058.html which will > >take you to that specific pattern. > > > > > > > > There's also been a wonderful addition to the Laughing Moon > >Men's Frock Coat pattern, in that in now includes a single-breasted, as well > >as the double-breasted frock coat, with the original two vests that were > >included in the pattern. Again, I'm just waiting for my new stock to arrive. > >You can view that pattern at: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_776.html > > > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Lorina > > > >Five Rivers Chapmanry > > > >purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, > >re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. > > > >519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 15:59:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Kx3rT000357 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:59:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Kx79m024135; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:59:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29KwjZu082535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:58:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Kwjts087698; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:58:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pqueuea.post.tele.dk (pqueuea.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Ktoii085225 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:55:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by pqueuea.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE3F6376AB9 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:25:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3134047FE20 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:24:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001401c643b7$8b65f970$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:25:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:59:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410971B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dear Dawn, I dont think i have ever seen the portraits made after these prints. But it could be, that they are real fashion prints. There was a series in the 1680ies called Mercure Gallante, wich showed handcoloured fashion prints. I have photographed all they have at the museum of fine arts in Copenhagen, but it is only about 35 prints, not the entire range. In one of my costume books wich is in danish, dont know the english title, it is written by an italian lady called Mila Contini, there is a portrait very like the same style, of Marie Adelaide de Savoye, duchesse of Burgundy. Its painted in the last part of 17th century, red with gold laces. Her large cufs are entirely covered with gold laces and her waistcoat is entirely gold two. Another portrait from Ribeiros Dress in 18th century Europe, page 47 shows Frances Pierrepoint, Countess of Mar, ca. 1715. Her hunting suit is made of a very pale rose colloured outfit, and her trimmings are made of silver bobbin laces. She also has the masculine wig on.+ tricorne under her right arm. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations like >> hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this was only >> used for hunting. The tricorne, her Steinkirke cravate, the jacket with >> the big cuffs, the way the buttonholes are worked and all the buttons. > > >>> http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg >>> > > Does anyone know what portrait this drawing is based on? From what I can > determine, Leloir's costume books came out in the mid 1800's. I'd like to > see some of his sources, including the ones for this image: > > > http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/47_1693-98.jpg > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 17:33:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29MXGP7003182 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:33:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29MXHc6026421; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:33:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29MWWUr096038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:32:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29MWRG1067303; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:32:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29MWLB8067073 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:32:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.7f.70c60c2b (3940) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:32:13 -0500 (EST) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <7f.70c60c2b.314206ec@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:32:12 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 17:33:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410AD2D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO There's only really one question to answer - do you really want to do the outfits? If you do then go for it, because you'll only regret it afterwards if you don't. And the worst thing would be to end up thinking 'what if I had...'. Well that's what I always tell myself when I take orders for things at short notice, anyway :-D Debbie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 18:28:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29NSTCw004834 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:28:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29NSWRv013271; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:28:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29NRuZO004092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:27:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29NRoh0010692; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:27:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29N4sOw092830 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:05:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A374DFF02A6; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:00:04 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:05:00 -0800 Message-ID: <002701c643cd$e4c5c200$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <004901c64395$6e6552c0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k29N4sOw092830 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:28:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410BA20.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Are you looking for patterns? Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:21 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. No worries Albertcat, its not the prince, but the queen you see in the portrait from Rosenborg. I dont have a picture of the prince to share right now, but i know the portrait, its a boy dressed in a red doublet with trunkhoses. All the costume is slashed and the hat wich i dont know how i would make is a tall hat naturally leather colour with red feathers. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > > _http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg_ > (http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg) > > > > > > I imagined the prince as a boy....like an adolescent. Oh well..... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 19:04:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A04T0P006066 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:04:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A04WO6024959; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:04:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A03nCe011258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:03:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A03iHG045609; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:03:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.187]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A03cSp045373 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:03:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.192]) by mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060310000329.NJHA8506.mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:03:29 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.183.2]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060310000328.ROLG18564.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:03:28 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.1/278]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:03:31 +1300 Message-ID: <008f01c643d6$10ef2c10$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:03:30 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 19:04:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410C290.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations like > hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this was only used > for hunting. I was wondering what your thoughts on this costume were: http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00004YWXG.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg It's the cover of the cd Pavaniglia by The Kings Noyse. It looks very late 17thC or very early 18thC and I would guess they are in costume for some performance, based mostly on her shoulder cloak and ruff and his costume. I'm thinking of something like this or a regular hunting style outfit for a costume I need in April (I'm singing How Would I Play This Part, from The Grand Duke by for a G&S singing competition) and I want something evocative of the period but not a mantua or other general 18thC style. In fact the original costume is very much a Victorian restyling of Swiss/German national costume;) It even has a little jacket worn with it, so this style isn't really too far off the mark and should help establish some character before I even open my mouth. It will be not be completely historically correct as it will be worn over a kilted skirt, but more like a mix of late Victorian and early 18thC. Oh and the character singing the song is an actress. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/278 - Release Date: 9/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 21:04:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A24wZA010434 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:04:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A252Ex032036; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:05:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A1xHC9031224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:59:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A1xCto048016; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:59:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.gorrie.wightman.ca [216.110.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A1x9sl047954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:59:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id 6C99384A28; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:59:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from MAIN (unknown [216.110.230.30]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80916849EC for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:58:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:58:35 -0500 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000401c643e6$379fdac0$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <200603092058.k29KvcVs086691@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on server01.gorrie X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-2.82, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.0.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2A1x9sl047954 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: New pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 21:05:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410DECE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Deredere wrote: >Somehow I find the hoops and bustles a bit weird looking. >I am not sure what it is. I'm not sure either, given these are all taken from examples in the pattern-maker's private collection, accompanied by exhaustive research. I'd vouch for all the Laughing Moon patterns. These are the most historically accurate, best engineered patterns on the market. In my opinion, the set the gold standard for others to follow. Kathleen wrote: >These hoops and bustles are wonderful, Lorena! I have the first one and the >last as antiques and you have made them up just as they should be. I feel I should clarify, Kathleen: I am not the creator of these patterns; rather, I am a distributor. I'd love to take the credit, but that goes to JoAnn Peterson of Laughing Moon. I am, however, delighted to have her patterns as part of Five Rivers repertoire. Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 21:09:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A29WTx010581 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:09:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A29aWb001085; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:09:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A299D0031965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:09:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A297bB055639; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:09:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A29162055468 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:09:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2e6.2d1b31c (63024) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:08:41 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2e6.2d1b31c.314239a8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:08:40 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 21:09:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410DFE0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2006 7:47:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl writes: Somehow I find the hoops and bustles a bit weird looking. I am not sure what it is. ***************************** Me too. The only thing I can put my finger on is, the oblong hoop needs a pad at the back to keep it from tipping up in front. The round hoop is a bit small for a petticoat hoop with so many hoops in it. I have period ones this size but they are all cage hoops and the wires start at a little above the knee height. But I like the shape of that pattern. The bustles seem functional....lord knows there were so many contraptions to achieve that silhouette. But there is something alien about them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 22:13:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3DTgU012821 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:13:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3DS1p023011; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:13:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A3D3Tc039011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:13:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A3CvNY004861; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:12:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29MaxFm070694 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:37:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8D53AC030E; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:14:45 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:19:42 -0800 Message-ID: <001d01c643c7$9037b280$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <28612777.1141916759330.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k29MaxFm070694 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:13:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410EED8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO These also might be easier because the fit doesn't have to be as fussy as when it's for a live person. Dress forms don't complain. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of ruthanneb@mindspring.com Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Bravo, Bjarne. What a fitting recognition for your wonderful skills and accomplishments! You sound as if you're very tempted. These projects sound like something a bit new for you, a chance to stretch... You COULD tell yourself that garments for exhibition aren't QUITE "costumes"...and so you wouldn't be breaking your promise to yourself not to make any more "costumes"... Keep us posted about what you decide! Best wishes, Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- >From: Bjarne og Leif Drews >Sent: Mar 9, 2006 8:49 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > >Hi, >I just got an enquiry from a museum. Because this year it is >renaissance >year, a museum has purchased money to get 2 costumes done. I am asked to do >them. I would make a dress after a portrait of Queen Sophie (the queen they >remade the wedding dress for) - as a widow. A black dress, small white ruff >and a black hood. >Then i should also make a prince outfit for a boy, the chosen prince who >died in 1647. This is rather late, and i dont think it has much to do with >renaissance, but.......... >Oh and i had promised myself from stopping making costumes, and besides, >the outfits has to be finished in about 3 months. .............. >Ah i really dont know, but would be very tempting > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 22:14:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3E5Eq012850 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3E9JK011619; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A3Drje039170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:13:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A3DqUI005679; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:13:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29N2ZsV091237 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:02:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2EA82B03A2; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:57:46 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:02:43 -0800 Message-ID: <002601c643cd$92c812a0$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k29N2ZsV091237 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:14:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410EF01.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO OK, that makes sense, but what a lot of work! Lovely, though. Gives me an idea for my costume....... Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Becky Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:58 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. It's not as complicated as it looks. Make a ruff with 2 layers. Form a main ruff that has all layers. When that is properly spaced. bring the inside ruff down into points inside the loops of the outter fabric. It's like origami. I can visualize it but may not explain it well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > > http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg > > > What a bizzare ruff! A ruff inside a ruff! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 22:14:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3EDTj012857 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3EHZZ001500; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A3E73c039232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:14:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A3E69c005912; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:14:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29NW6Y7014631 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:32:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1474336A80 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:29:38 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:29:56 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <2f6.3085d2.3141a934@aol.com> x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE bizarre ruff was : dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:14:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410EF09.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It looks like 3 layers with one thick layer between two sheer layers -----Original Message----- http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg What a bizzare ruff! A ruff inside a ruff! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 22:14:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3EbGx012871 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3EfSx017818; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A3EToo039291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:14:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A3ET1s006262; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:14:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A0MCbJ065615 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:22:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.194]) by mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060310002205.NRGA4607.mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:22:05 +1300 Received: from web1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([219.89.183.2]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060310002205.VMUZ16143.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@web1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:22:05 +1300 Received: from michaela ([219.89.183.2]) by web1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail vG.2.00.00.00 201-2161-108-101-20050407) with ESMTP id <20060310002205.XGBZ420.web1-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:22:05 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.1/278]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:22:06 +1300 Message-ID: <009d01c643d8$a96c6cd0$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> <001401c643b7$8b65f970$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:22:06 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:14:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410EF21.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > In one of my costume books wich is in danish, dont know the english title, > it is written by an italian lady called Mila Contini, there is a portrait > very like the same style, of Marie Adelaide de Savoye, duchesse of Burgundy. > Its painted in the last part of 17th century, red with gold laces. Her large > cufs are entirely covered with gold laces and her waistcoat is entirely > gold two. That would be Fashion, by Mila Contini, I just had another look through my copy and realised there are in fact a lovely number of images I've really liked over the years. I found a used copy a couple of years ago and bought it as it was one of the first costuming books I got hold of. It was in my school library. Marie is on page 184. One of my favourite gowns is on page 181 (part of a two page image) and it's pretty clearly mourning garb. I'm not keen on the headdress, but the gown is really lovely. Louis XIV receiving Frederick Augustus of Saxony, Louis Silvestre, Versailles Museum. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/278 - Release Date: 9/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 22:14:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3Ejb5012878 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3EnbY007128; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A3Edvh039344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:14:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A3Ecwm006412; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:14:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A1E8Xl012362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:14:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2A1E2G9008933 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:14:07 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ruff - was Bjarne's dilemma Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:17:42 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309154758.01ddd970@127.0.0.1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:14:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410EF29.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Looking at this ruff I actually see three layers. One big outer layer, then two ruched together so that one fills the top arches of the large ruff and the other fills the bottom. Of course, all the layers may actually be the same size and you get the rather heart shape of the inner layers as they become bunched within the outer one. Ow! My brain hurts. I can't wait to see what you do with this one Bjarne! Regina > > What a complicated ruff! I've never seen anything like that. I am > trying really hard to work it out. Am I mad to think it might be two > layers of fabric, instead of one - one to make the standard ruff and > one to make the doubles inside? > > >Is this the prince? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 22:19:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3JGF0013023 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:19:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3JJko025250; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:19:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A3DkbE039141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:13:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A3DkJ7005570; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:13:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Mxhe3088979 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:59:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A24029DD029A; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:54:56 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ruff - was Bjarne's dilemma Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:59:53 -0800 Message-ID: <002501c643cd$2d471e30$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309154758.01ddd970@127.0.0.1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:19:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410F038.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Looking at the ruff, it may be that the painter just "made up" the ruff pattern, so it "kind of" looked like the real ruff. Remember, it's a painting, not a photo, and there is probably a bit of creative license. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:50 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Ruff - was Bjarne's dilemma At 15:43 09/03/2006, you wrote: >Three months? Oww. Is this the portrait of Queen Sophie you'd be >doing? http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg (different >cap color, but I couldn't find anything else in a quick search) Do you >know what the whole dress would look like already? The wedding dress >is over 30 years earlier, so it probably wouldn't help... you might >have to put in some research time, which would make the 3 months time >limit harder. What a complicated ruff! I've never seen anything like that. I am trying really hard to work it out. Am I mad to think it might be two layers of fabric, instead of one - one to make the standard ruff and one to make the doubles inside? >Is this the prince? >http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg > >I have no doubt you could do it if you set your mind to it, Bjarne, >but it sounds like a bit of a headache to me! Would they consider >allowing more time for it and is the money enough to be tempting? > >-E House > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 02:06:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A76BRU021173 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:06:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A76E6G025068; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:06:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A75pPn070354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:05:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A75ltF069372; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:05:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A75hGx069329 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:05:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DA861369A8 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:05:42 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:05:56 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002601c643cd$92c812a0$0400a8c0@bob3pc> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ruff RE: dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:06:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44112566.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO To achieve the look you need 3 layers. Otherwise it will only have the heart frills in the top loops or the bottom. You will need to have excess of the frill material to achieve the desired effect. De -----Original Message----- It's not as complicated as it looks. Make a ruff with 2 layers. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 03:39:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8dtRu008655 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:39:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8dxoq022587; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8dYxx090193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dVdS041970; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dR7r041886 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C64B1B8FA for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309232943.036d4760@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:30:11 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44113B5F.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 03:18 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >Kimiko Small wrote: > >I know what images of George Clifford, the "privateering" Earl looks like. >I know what images of Raleigh, and Drake are like, but what would everyday >privateers, pirates, or even basic seamen look like during the Elizabethan era? > >The Gentlemen of Fortune site gives the best explanation I've seen on the web: > >www.gentlemenoffortune.com > > >Dawn Thanks Dawn. While not the time frame I am looking for, it is very informative, and I've learned a lot. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 03:39:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8du4a008656 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:39:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8dxpG007470; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8dYAD090194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dXTI042007; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dUxw041958 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4472FB8A3 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060310002843.038f52c8@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:16 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] New pattern In-Reply-To: <000501c64396$be2355e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> References: <000501c64396$be2355e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44113B5F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 08:29 AM 3/9/2006, you wrote: > There's also been a wonderful addition to the Laughing Moon >Men's Frock Coat pattern, in that in now includes a single-breasted, as well >as the double-breasted frock coat, with the original two vests that were >included in the pattern. Again, I'm just waiting for my new stock to arrive. >You can view that pattern at: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_776.html Nice coat. Now I will have something for my husband to wear with me, once I get to the Victorian stuff later this year (I will, I will!) Thanks for sharing the new patterns with us. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 03:39:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8dtUZ008654 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:39:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8dxk7021476; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8dYPf090195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dWxK041986; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dSpl041901 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DAD5B8CF for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309233018.036c5d70@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:31:41 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060308231751.01d81210@127.0.0.1> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060308231751.01d81210@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44113B5F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 03:20 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >I was just looking at "Vecellio's Book of Costumes"(??) and it has several >seafaring men depicted. I don't imagine pirates would be any different. >It's a Dover book - I may have the title wrong, but the words "Vecellio" >and "Costume" are in the title I'm certain. > >Suzi > >Thanks for the Books of Hours BTW - lovely. Hi Suzi, I have that very book, although I forgot it was on my shelves. Thank you, the image is ... interesting. Now to scan it for my records. And I am glad you enjoyed the Book of Hours. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 03:40:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8e1Xh008657 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8dxrQ008604; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8dYVG090192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dUv3041940; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dQAc041863 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF5DB7D2 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 20:11:38 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44113B5F.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 08:06 AM 3/9/2006, you wrote: >The temptation to make a rude pun is almost overwhelming...but I'll resist > >They would wear what everyone else would wear. There was no particular >"uniform" of a pirate. I looked into this when my huibby was giving me >grief about dressing up. What we think of as "pirates" is out of >period...the great coat, the striped clothes, etc. Darn. My hubby as >Captain Jack...hmmm...... Hubby said he'd wear a great coat & tall boots. >Tunics are dresses... >Julie Hi Julie, Thanks for resisting the pun... I am sure we all can come up with something. This is exactly why I am looking up what they wore, because it was my hunch they wore what everyone else wore, but I have no proof of that, and it is the visual proof I am looking for. I am going to be doing a visual lecture on Costume Myths for our local Ren-faire people. See, we are currently finding a number of people involving themselves at our local Renaissance faires wearing the stereotypical "Pirate" garb, which is a much later time frame. While the faire promoters aren't sure what to do about it (except for one who has embraced it as her faire theme), I am hoping to show people visual images of what exactly they did wear, or at least as much info about it as I can. If they want to ignore it, and continue to wear the Capt'n Jack Sparrow outfits... at least I tried. And yeah, if you got a hubby willing to dress like Capt'n Jack... oye. Enjoy yourselves. ;-) I fell in love with my husband because he enjoyed wearing kilts... I really like men in kilts. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 03:40:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8e9q8008715 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8eDRT010328; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8e5gL090379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:40:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8e48F042385; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:40:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dQaM041871 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3397B7FD for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309232719.036dd868@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:27:40 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309052033.01d26eb8@pop-server.mn.rr.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060309052033.01d26eb8@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44113B6D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 03:24 AM 3/9/2006, you wrote: >Well, if you're interested in the middle of the 16th century, we have a >bit of an idea of what was worn on the Mary Rose, which sank in >1545. There were a number of leather jerkins found, as well as some wool >garment fragments, some wool flat caps, leather shoes... that sort of >thing. The info shouldn't be too hard to track down if you look up the >Mary Rose. > >Cheers, >Danielle Thanks! I found the web site for their display and info, and it was very helpful. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 04:48:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A9mjap022454 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:48:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A9mlLe009197; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:48:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A9mOeL008872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:48:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A9mLrY087610; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:48:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A9mFqQ087499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:48:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-221-247-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.221.247]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k2A9m6Q3017299 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:48:07 +1100 Message-ID: <00be01c64427$bc06e6a0$f7ddf5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:48:06 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:48:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44114B7F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO While we're on the topic of Equestrian Costume I came across this fashion plate http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/1859septharpers.jpg from 1859. I was under the impression that women didn't wear hoops or skirt supports (of whatever style was fashionable at the time) when they were riding (as hoops would stand out from the horse's side giving those below a view straight up your skirt and bustles or paniers would get in the way of you sitting on the horse), but it seems difficult to believe there isn't a crinoline under that skirt. Does anybody have an explanation for why she would wear a crinoline with her riding costume? All I can think of is that maybe it's a way to use up the extra length in the riding habit, but the 2 big problems with that are A. all the fullness is on one side and B. it would mean putting a crinoline on underneath your skirts in public. And I'm pretty sure Victorian riding habits were only worn when you planned to be actually riding, so no chance of having one for show and one for actually getting on a horse. I'm stumped, if anybody else can offer insights I'm really curious to know. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 05:25:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AAP9nV031111 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:25:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AAPDma020232; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:25:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AAOmkX013732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:24:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AAOjuO015906; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:24:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AAOgXW015860 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:24:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AF44247FE9A for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:24:41 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004b01c6442c$e220ad80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <00be01c64427$bc06e6a0$f7ddf5dc@user4712b7d135> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:24:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:25:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44115409.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Elizabeth, Cant give you any explanations to this, but i remember i have seen movies where ladies are riding with crinolines two. This is not evidense, i know. On the other hand, when i first time visited V&A, they were selling some old prints. I baught some of them, and one is Queen Anne of Denmark riding in a drum shaped farthingale. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > While we're on the topic of Equestrian Costume I came across this fashion > plate > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/1859septharpers.jpg > from 1859. I was under the impression that women didn't wear hoops or > skirt supports (of whatever style was fashionable at the time) when they > were riding (as hoops would stand out from the horse's side giving those > below a view straight up your skirt and bustles or paniers would get in > the way of you sitting on the horse), but it seems difficult to believe > there isn't a crinoline under that skirt. > Does anybody have an explanation for why she would wear a crinoline with > her riding costume? All I can think of is that maybe it's a way to use up > the extra length in the riding habit, but the 2 big problems with that are > A. all the fullness is on one side and B. it would mean putting a > crinoline on underneath your skirts in public. And I'm pretty sure > Victorian riding habits were only worn when you planned to be actually > riding, so no chance of having one for show and one for actually getting > on a horse. > I'm stumped, if anybody else can offer insights I'm really curious to > know. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 05:33:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AAXHEu000749 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AAXMHi022692; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8e553090382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:40:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8e46K042382; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:40:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dTPT041928 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C07DB7FD for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060310001956.038f5558@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:21:56 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441155F2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 08:43 AM 3/9/2006, you wrote: >There are also the excavations from Red Bay, Labrador and the wreck of the >San Juan (1565). Although I haven't found documentation on more than the >shoes, I'm told that the graves of the Basque seamen had clothes that were >excavated. > >BTW, it is most likely (speaking of shoes) that common seamen were wearing >turnshoes like: >http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOES/redbay5.html. >Non-turned shoes, when found, being more expensive possibly denote officers. > >Marc Thank you Marc for that info. I wasn't able to find much on the clothing of the San Juan, but I have learned a lot anyway. And I do appreciate your information on shoes. It is details such as shoes that make a difference in the full outfit looking right, or looking off. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 05:33:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AAXHEw000749 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AAXMHk022692; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8e5EK090380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:40:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8e41n042377; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:40:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dTgH041918 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C1EB7D2 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309233155.036de1e8@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:04:38 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <001b01c6430e$d7f441b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> <001b01c6430e$d7f441b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441155F2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 04:17 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >Perhaps so, but it begins nearly a hundred years after the close of the >Elizabethan era. > > Sailors of the Elizabethan period, based on period art wear loose > venetians or what willlater be called slops. Some are shown closed at > the bottom some are not. The upper body garments tend to be either close > fitting doublets, or a loose smock sort of jacket referred to in the > period as a cassock. The real obvious indicator of a sailor is the > cap. The most notable ones being thrummed caps. Thrummed caps look in > art like fur. They are made from strands of woll (thrum) being afixed > through the weave of kit caps, not unlike the modern watch cap. > > Good art does exist out there. A number of Dutch maps shows mariner > figures as does the Mariner's Mirror. Actually the Dutch version and the > English version depict some different figures. I think it is just after > the period, but there are the woodcuts of the BArents expeditions as > well. Some art survivies depicting one of Frobisher's trips as > well. There is also the image depicted in Vecellios that was earlier > mentioned. > >Ron Carnegie Hello Ron Thank you for your explanation. I was looking at the Vecellio's woodcut that Suzi mentioned, and couldn't figure out what was going on until I read your info. I know Alcega has a pattern for the cassock, although I don't know if it is the same or similar, but I will look it up. And the thrummed cap gave me a lot to google for (I now understand how to thrum a knitted mitt). I've found a color image of the Mariner's Mirror, then realized I have a B/W copy in one of my books, which is great since the color image is rather small, so details are not really there. The Barents expedition is 1596, so it is period. I just found a decent image online of one of the images. The other one with the polar bear wasn't so clear. It looks like I will have to hunt around some more, but you've given me some great leads. Thank you, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 09:46:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AEkfWE011177 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:46:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AEkjXI010891; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:46:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AEex0P050181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:40:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AEetvu015731; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:40:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms042pub.verizon.net (vms042pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.42]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AEeq6Y015698 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:40:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([162.84.113.26]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVX00CPN23PSR33@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:40:39 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:40:37 -0500 From: "RON CARNEGIE" Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <005d01c64450$98dd7300$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> <001b01c6430e$d7f441b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> <6.2.1.2.0.20060309233155.036de1e8@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:46:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44119155.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hello, I think Alcega's cassock is a different creature than the sailors cassock. There are a few different article of clothing that use this name, and they differ greatly. Priests wear a long gown that goes by that name, in the 17th century there is an overcoat that is called this. Actually the overcoat ios similar to what i am dexcribing, except it is longer. I am not sure if there are any patternn readily available out there, but it is a rather easy garment to construct. Not sure how to verbally descrip it though! It is very similiar to a period shirt, and can be made with fouir or five pieces, To sleeves cut as long rectangles , with a vurve on the top to fit into the armscye. A front an back cut almost the same (you might angle the neck openng a little higher in back than in the front, and there need to be a least a neck slit ion front). The front and back should be cut with a slight slope at the shoulders (unlike shirts). I would also curve the armscye, as with modern garments or with doublets and things, again differnty from a period shirt. The side seams shoud slope out away from the body to give the slightly belled shape seen in some of the pictures. I would add a standing collar between an inch and three inches tall. The neck opening can be just turned, or a facing can be used. I would clse it with buttons, though I have seen ties used on modren reproductions. I would personally make it of wool, though I have seen reproductions at Jamestown settlement with ties. My favorite reproduction at knotwork buttons made from hemp line! I have also seen these cassocks made with canvas, usually cotton, though historically is should be linen of hemp. Thes were made with the belief that they might have been constructed from sail cloth, a pratice that is documentable for later periods. You can leave the garment plain, or you can trim it. Theonly depictions I have seen of trim on these was a Dutch map, that had various historic explorers around the edges. All of them were depicted in these cassock, which I think unlikely, officers are usually depicted dressed just like landmen gentleman. I think on this map tha artist was using license to makle it clear that they were mariners. Here the trim was apllied as you would guards (around the edges of the body of the garment) and looked like various embroidered or metallic as per their wealth. Like I say I think there is a lot of license there, but I have "guarded" wool cassock with simple wool lace or modernly tape. Makes it a little more interesting. If you can find a pattern for a Elizabethan mandillion, this is a very similiar creature. The mandillion buttons all the way down the sides and sleeves which allows it to be worn in a few different ways depending on warmth desired. They often have pockets as well. Though I have not seen these features in sailor art (actually I might be wrong, I may have seen pockets) the 17th century long cassock must certainly do this so I think it is perfectly plausible that some might have. There is also a sleeved cloak which is a similiar idea, but thatthe sleeves can actually be buttoned to the body to convert a coat into a cape. One last consideration. It is believed by many that these cassocks I am describing, are actuually an outergarment (which the mandillions and 17th century cassocks certainly are). If this is the case there should be a doublet or at least a jerkin worn under it. This is still however a matter of speculation (as of course is the pattern I described) as it is not clear one way or the other from the art. I have a very good source for the thrummed caps by the bye. I have two sources, but their better one is far quicker to deliver and far less expensive than the other! Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 3:04 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? > At 04:17 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >>Perhaps so, but it begins nearly a hundred years after the close of the >>Elizabethan era. >> >> Sailors of the Elizabethan period, based on period art wear loose >> venetians or what willlater be called slops. Some are shown closed at >> the bottom some are not. The upper body garments tend to be either close >> fitting doublets, or a loose smock sort of jacket referred to in the >> period as a cassock. The real obvious indicator of a sailor is the cap. >> The most notable ones being thrummed caps. Thrummed caps look in art >> like fur. They are made from strands of woll (thrum) being afixed >> through the weave of kit caps, not unlike the modern watch cap. >> >> Good art does exist out there. A number of Dutch maps shows mariner >> figures as does the Mariner's Mirror. Actually the Dutch version and the >> English version depict some different figures. I think it is just after >> the period, but there are the woodcuts of the BArents expeditions as >> well. Some art survivies depicting one of Frobisher's trips as well. >> There is also the image depicted in Vecellios that was earlier mentioned. >> >>Ron Carnegie > > > Hello Ron > > Thank you for your explanation. I was looking at the Vecellio's woodcut > that Suzi mentioned, and couldn't figure out what was going on until I > read your info. I know Alcega has a pattern for the cassock, although I > don't know if it is the same or similar, but I will look it up. And the > thrummed cap gave me a lot to google for (I now understand how to thrum a > knitted mitt). > > I've found a color image of the Mariner's Mirror, then realized I have a > B/W copy in one of my books, which is great since the color image is > rather small, so details are not really there. The Barents expedition is > 1596, so it is period. I just found a decent image online of one of the > images. The other one with the polar bear wasn't so clear. It looks like I > will have to hunt around some more, but you've given me some great leads. > > Thank you, > > Kimiko > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 09:56:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AEuqf2011682 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:56:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AEuuWl015045; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:56:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AEucOE052831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:56:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AEuajf030355; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:56:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms046pub.verizon.net (vms046pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AEuY2s030320 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:56:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([162.84.113.26]) by vms046.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVX0066K2U6LSS6@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:56:33 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:56:29 -0500 From: "RON CARNEGIE" Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <007b01c64452$d094af50$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> <6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:56:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441193B8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO You want to prove the "pyrate" look wrong you might want to go the other way about. Bring in documentation of historic dress in the golden age of piracy (a period beginning at the earliest in the middle 17th century and usually depicted more around the turn to the 18th). I say this because such research will show that the "pyrate" look when historically inspired at all, is just garish example of the civilan dress of the time. The very argument you are in fact making. Elizabethan pirates probably would even get to be garish! Elizabethan pirates where entirly differnt creatures than the brethren of the coast sorts. The line between honest merchant and pirate were very slim. Beyond that there was no navy in the modern sense. English pirates in the 16th century were more often than not pirates by oppurtunity than prediliction. Honest sailors who had taken advantage of situation that appears, pirated some other poor merchant, and than continued with their previous legal operation. While there were areas in England where acts of piracy regularly occured, these tended to be more of a smuggling and "wreckers" type activities. There really was not a pirate culture as would later flourish in the Caribbean, American and Madagascar ports. Ron Carnegie > > Hi Julie, > > Thanks for resisting the pun... I am sure we all can come up with > something. > > This is exactly why I am looking up what they wore, because it was my > hunch they wore what everyone else wore, but I have no proof of that, and > it is the visual proof I am looking for. I am going to be doing a visual > lecture on Costume Myths for our local Ren-faire people. > > See, we are currently finding a number of people involving themselves at > our local Renaissance faires wearing the stereotypical "Pirate" garb, > which is a much later time frame. While the faire promoters aren't sure > what to do about it (except for one who has embraced it as her faire > theme), I am hoping to show people visual images of what exactly they did > wear, or at least as much info about it as I can. If they want to ignore > it, and continue to wear the Capt'n Jack Sparrow outfits... at least I > tried. > > And yeah, if you got a hubby willing to dress like Capt'n Jack... oye. > Enjoy yourselves. ;-) > I fell in love with my husband because he enjoyed wearing kilts... I > really like men in kilts. > > Kimiko > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 10:08:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AF8QEn012175 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:08:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AF8U0a020487; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:08:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AF7i2C054121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:07:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AF7g22040177; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:07:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.eastlink.ca (smtpout.eastlink.ca [24.222.0.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AF7csm040023 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:07:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sjpaterson@tru.eastlink.ca) Received: from ip03.eastlink.ca ([24.222.10.15]) by mta01.eastlink.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IVX00K2A3AGSOR0@mta01.eastlink.ca> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:06:16 -0400 (AST) Received: from blk-137-68-3.eastlink.ca (HELO THIRDFLOOR) ([24.137.68.3]) by ip03.eastlink.ca with SMTP; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:02:16 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:02:14 -0400 From: SPaterson Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? To: Historical Costume Message-id: <002801c64453$9dc9f2f0$6401a8c0@THIRDFLOOR> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAA+k= References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> <6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:08:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411966E.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO During my internship at Jamestown I was asked to research the 'foot of the mariner' for the interpretive costume of the mariners c.1609. I wrote up my research which I did primarily at the Mariner's Museum in Newport News, VA - as I was surveying the dressing of the foot, it may be too narrow a focus but I did list several notable records of both naval & merchant slops chests if that would be of any help. As might my bibliography Sarah Paterson (sca.k.a. Bess Darnley) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 11:16:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AGFvmq017045 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:15:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AGFx97019240; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:16:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AGFP2R063666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:15:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AGFJlB003086; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:15:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AGF6TC002878 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:15:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 672F926280D for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:15:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c6445d$ce548250$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:15:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Danich kings and their outfits X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:16:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411A63F.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi. Just to let you know that Rosenborg Castle has made a fantastic website where you can examine the individual costumes worn by the danish kings. You can turn the pictures round, so you can see every corner of it, and there are patterns and details in PDF files format. Only in danish i am sorry, but i am sure you can find something out. http://www.kongedragter.dk/ Have fun!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 13:33:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AIX589030384 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:33:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AIX6BG006253; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:33:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AIWaqE088791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:32:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AIWONP033047; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:32:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f19.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AIW9TH032854 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:32:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:32:08 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:31:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.186] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200603101508.k2AF7h4b040209@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:31:39 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2006 18:32:08.0963 (UTC) FILETIME=[F08FF530:01C64470] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: what do renaissance seamen look like? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:33:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411C662.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >From: Kimiko Small >Thank you Marc for that info. I wasn't able to find much on the clothing of >the San Juan, but I have learned a lot anyway. If you do, please let me know. I've been looking for them for some time now :) I was kinda hoping that someone on the list would see that and it would spark a memory - I know where that is! :) >And I do appreciate your information on shoes. It is details such as shoes >that make a difference in the full outfit looking right, or looking off. My pleasure. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 14:05:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AJ5HXc031677 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:05:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AJ5LKe018146; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:05:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AJ50w8093205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:05:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AJ4tZw064122; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:04:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AJ4oTW063927 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:04:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA5BCA296A for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:04:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4411CDE5.6000804@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:05:09 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] jester costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:05:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411CDF1.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hello all, I've been asked for " someone to make a highly professional & gorgeous Jester costume... authentic in appearance but not using authentic fabrics". If you want this job, please email me privately. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 15:21:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AKKtdE003349 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:20:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AKKxlO020163; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:21:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AKKV8V003743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:20:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AKKSol032539; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:20:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AHIDIS063862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:18:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-113-204.sonic.net [209.148.113.204]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2AHI96A001998 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:18:13 -0800 Message-ID: <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:18:09 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> <6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:21:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411DFAC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > > See, we are currently finding a number of people involving themselves at > our local Renaissance faires wearing the stereotypical "Pirate" garb, > which is a much later time frame. As my father (the final owner of the long-lived family parrot, handed down from his grandfather; which grandfather BTW ran away to sea to as a cabin boy and came back after one voyage swearing he'd never be a sailor again), says: "Did you ever think about what the back of Long John Silver's coat looked like?" Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 15:24:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AKO4S3003463 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:24:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AKO9QY021492; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:24:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AKNuFb004341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:23:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AKNhKK035785; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:23:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AJp9Sl003929 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:51:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B33147FE95 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:51:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001e01c6447c$066d2ed0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4411CDE5.6000804@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] jester costume Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:51:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:24:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411E069.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi and sorry for my ignorance, what is a Jester Costume? Bad dictionary here! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:05 PM Subject: [h-cost] jester costume > Hello all, > > I've been asked for " someone to make a highly professional & gorgeous > Jester costume... authentic in appearance but not using authentic > fabrics". > > If you want this job, please email me privately. > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 15:52:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AKquRl005088 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:52:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AKr0uE001056; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:53:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AKqOlY010153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:52:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AKpuMI062760; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:51:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AKpjFK062458 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:51:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 250BAA4143 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:51:29 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4411E6EB.3060300@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:51:55 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] jester costume References: <4411CDE5.6000804@reddawn.net> <001e01c6447c$066d2ed0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001e01c6447c$066d2ed0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:53:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411E72C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi and sorry for my ignorance, what is a Jester Costume? > Bad dictionary here! > > Bjarne Something like this: http://images.joke.co.uk/images/products/r15426-lge.jpg Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 16:11:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ALBDBJ006319 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:11:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ALBHH7008869; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:11:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ALAnNO013137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:10:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ALAheX081180; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:10:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ALAXQI081020 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:10:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1FHosZ0eRr-00026h; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:10:32 -0500 Message-ID: <004701c64487$11261520$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:10:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] image help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:11:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411EB75.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2ALBDBJ006319 Status: RO A while back, I scanned a ladies' wrapper image out of a Delineator magazine to work on. I put it in a file for Nov. 1897. The original color on the image was only printed in blue. I wanted to try to paint the image for the missing colors. Last week, I worked on it for a complete day and threw my back out while working. I finished the image today, and went to look in the magazine for the description and found out that the image isn't from the Nov. issue. I believe it must be from somewhere in the 1896-1898 issues of the magazine. I have checked all my issues and can't locate it. If you have Delineator magazines from this period, would you please check and see if you have this image in it. I am so upset that I put this much work into an image and can't locate the issue of the magazine that it is from. I have put a copy of the image online at: www.costumegallery.com/1897/dress3med.jpg Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 17:25:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMPmY6010409 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:25:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMPqBo004683; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:25:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AMPQnA022878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:25:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMPLX2047452; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:25:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.192.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMP4ab047175 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:25:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter79.comcast.net ([204.127.197.179]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060310222458m1200mgk5ae>; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:24:58 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter79.comcast.net; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:24:56 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danich kings and their outfits Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:24:56 +0000 Message-Id: <031020062224.25574.4411FCB7000B96D9000063E622007610649C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:25:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411FCF0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO What a wonderful website. This is when I wish I need knew how to speak my great grandfather's native language. He was from Copenhagen. Roscelin -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Hi. > Just to let you know that Rosenborg Castle has made a fantastic website > where you can examine the individual costumes worn by the danish kings. You > can turn the pictures round, so you can see every corner of it, and there > are patterns and details in PDF files format. > Only in danish i am sorry, but i am sure you can find something out. > http://www.kongedragter.dk/ > Have fun!! > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 17:44:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMi4Ek011833 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:44:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMi8i6009901; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:44:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AMhtjq025524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:43:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMhmkU063316; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:43:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net (smtp4.suscom.net [64.78.119.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMhgAk063087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:43:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC25715005D for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:43:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 03063-01-4 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:43:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from Stuckis (ip21.77.78.64.suscom.net [64.78.77.21]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B7ADE15005F for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:43:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:43:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:44:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44120138.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > > As my father (the final owner of the long-lived family parrot, handed down > from his grandfather; which grandfather BTW ran away to sea to as a cabin > boy and came back after one voyage swearing he'd never be a sailor again), > says: > > "Did you ever think about what the back of Long John Silver's coat looked > like?" > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com Ewwww.....I've seen the bombs my parrot can drop. Personally, I keep my parrot off my shoulder, because he's easily spooked, and I've grown fond of my earlobes and eyeballs. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 17:46:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMk9NE011925 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:46:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMkDqj027995; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:46:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AMjxvM025792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:45:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMjwX5065020; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:45:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fallback.suscom.net (fallback.suscom.net [64.78.119.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMjsZc064891 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:45:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (fallback [127.0.0.1]) by fallback.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E347D7928B2 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:41:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from fallback.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fallback.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04794-09 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:41:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net (smtp4.suscom.net [64.78.119.247]) by fallback.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C0E79289E for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:41:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98CA415005C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:42:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 02611-01-9 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:42:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from Stuckis (ip21.77.78.64.suscom.net [64.78.77.21]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C172150059 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:42:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009c01c64493$db5c2c10$154d4e40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com><00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> <6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:42:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:46:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441201B5.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > > And yeah, if you got a hubby willing to dress like Capt'n Jack... oye. > Enjoy yourselves. ;-) > I fell in love with my husband because he enjoyed wearing kilts... I > really like men in kilts. > > Kimiko Last week's People magazine had a photo of Johnny Depp, taken on the set of the new POtC movie. He was shirtless...rarr. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 17:50:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMoG7I012100 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:50:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMoK3x011544; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:50:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AMo33g026292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMnvnD068272; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:49:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMnlBm068106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:49:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-221.sonic.net [209.148.114.221]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2AMnh9h021360 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:49:45 -0800 Message-ID: <44120287.3030200@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:49:43 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com> <00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis> In-Reply-To: <00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:50:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441202AC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ours (a Mexican redhead creatively named Polly) had a habit of putting his head down to be scratched and then taking a good bite out of the person who petted him, if they weren't fast enough. Fran > > Ewwww.....I've seen the bombs my parrot can drop. > > Personally, I keep my parrot off my shoulder, because he's easily > spooked, and I've grown fond of my earlobes and eyeballs. > > Dianne > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 18:29:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ANTXfl014804 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:29:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ANTbak021440; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:29:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ANT3xU031318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:29:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ANSwWh001703; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:29:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ANSfwH001541 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:28:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 10C3147FE48 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 00:28:34 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c6449a$5e2408b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4411CDE5.6000804@reddawn.net><001e01c6447c$066d2ed0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4411E6EB.3060300@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] jester costume Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 00:28:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:29:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44120BE1.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ah, i see, well thanks Dawn, not because i was interrested, but because i was currious to se what kind of outfit it would be. I think it could be fun to make one, but you know, embroidery is my passion! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] jester costume > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Hi and sorry for my ignorance, what is a Jester Costume? >> Bad dictionary here! >> >> Bjarne > > Something like this: > > > http://images.joke.co.uk/images/products/r15426-lge.jpg > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 19:00:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B00aG6016547 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:00:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B00ekH029742; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:00:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B00Bt1035791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:00:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B000us031132; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:00:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ANxd08030946 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:59:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B0204262822 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 00:59:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001a01c6449e$b9db33f0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <031020062224.25574.4411FCB7000B96D9000063E622007610649C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danich kings and their outfits Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 00:59:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:00:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44121328.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ah, i must say, its a small world then, how bold of your great grandfather, to have the gutss to leave old Denmark. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danich kings and their outfits > What a wonderful website. This is when I wish I need knew how to speak my > great grandfather's native language. He was from Copenhagen. > > Roscelin > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >> Hi. >> Just to let you know that Rosenborg Castle has made a fantastic website >> where you can examine the individual costumes worn by the danish kings. >> You >> can turn the pictures round, so you can see every corner of it, and there >> are patterns and details in PDF files format. >> Only in danish i am sorry, but i am sure you can find something out. >> http://www.kongedragter.dk/ >> Have fun!! >> >> Bjarne >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 19:03:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B03TN0016651 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:03:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B03YeB030653; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:03:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B02xRD036082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:03:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B02x5U033700; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:02:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B02txu033648 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:02:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 66423262808 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:02:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002001c6449f$2f3d6780$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:03:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] renaissance seamen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:03:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441213D6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi apropos this topic. If you visited the danish site with the kings costumes, the costume wich is shown to the Chr. IV it is a doublet with a falling collar from about 1st part of 17th century. Actually this doublet, the king wore on board a ship at a battle. He was wounded and therefore they kept the costume. So you could say its a sailor outfit from 17th century. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 19:09:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B09ZuK016848 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:09:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B09dxB032195; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:09:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B09Pse036898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:09:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B09NZp039140; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:09:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B09J4x039058 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:09:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 33561A50008 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:09:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002d01c644a0$13c4ab70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com><00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis> <44120287.3030200@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:09:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:09:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44121543.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, yes I know that personality to a bird. When i studyed at the design school, we had a day in the zoo to draw animals. I preferred to draw the birds. Especially one of them an australian one rose colloured with tall feathers on the head, dont know the name, i got quite friendly with, and i could stick in my finger and pet it . After lunch, i hurried back, and the bird was waiting for me ( i thoaght) but when i took the finger into him, he just bite me so hard you cant imagine. I guess it was another one, and not the other one i had pet before lunch. I never forget that bird................ Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? > Ours (a Mexican redhead creatively named Polly) had a habit of putting his > head down to be scratched and then taking a good bite out of the person > who petted him, if they weren't fast enough. > > Fran > >> >> Ewwww.....I've seen the bombs my parrot can drop. >> >> Personally, I keep my parrot off my shoulder, because he's easily >> spooked, and I've grown fond of my earlobes and eyeballs. >> >> Dianne >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 20:33:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B1X7Wd022153 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:33:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B1XBmZ022117; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:33:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B1WbPI047289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:32:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B1WZQL003871; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:32:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B1WUQO003764 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:32:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.23e.85d2ea5 (16087) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:32:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID104-3ed7441228a6341; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:32:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c6427d$498388a0$0300a8c0@boris> <9510f346ef2cc50bc491e941c3434449@aol.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:32:20 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:33:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441228D7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2B1X7Wd022153 Status: RO Thanks, Jean. Makes sense. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 10, 2006, at 4:29 PM, Jean Waddie wrote: > Susan Data-Samtak wrote > snip >> >> I've also heard that many of the "conventions" followed by sidesaddle >> riders today, using english style sidesaddles, go back to Victorian >> times when so much of life was codified. One example that was >> pointed out to me: black gloves are appropriate to use for US Rev War >> impressions, but definitely not for US Civil War, because Victorians >> used black gloves as part of their mourning attire and "A Lady would >> not be riding if she were in mourning. A Lady would stay at home, or >> be driven in a carriage." Can anyone confirm such a statement? >> > snip > > My impression is that Ladies rode for exercise and pleasure, rather > than to get from A to B, therefore it is not something one would do > while in mourning. > > Jean > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 20:33:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B1Xtv1022239 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:33:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B1Xx6H021958; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:34:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B1Xla0047414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:33:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B1Xk6h004736; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:33:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B1XgIq004685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:33:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-113-190.sonic.net [209.148.113.190]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2B1Xbch013877 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:33:40 -0800 Message-ID: <441228E2.2040603@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:33:22 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com><00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis> <44120287.3030200@lavoltapress.com> <002d01c644a0$13c4ab70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <002d01c644a0$13c4ab70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:34:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44122907.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It was probably the same bird. The way Polly got people to pet him/her (we never knew which) was to make it a surprise attack. Sometimes he bit, sometimes not. He/she was a great bird though. Fran Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, yes > I know that personality to a bird. When i studyed at the design school, > we had a day in the zoo to draw animals. I preferred to draw the birds. > Especially one of them an australian one rose colloured with tall > feathers on the head, dont know the name, i got quite friendly with, and > i could stick in my finger and pet it . > After lunch, i hurried back, and the bird was waiting for me ( i > thoaght) but when i took the finger into him, he just bite me so hard > you cant imagine. I guess it was another one, and not the other one i > had pet before lunch. > I never forget that bird................ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 21:35:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B2ZkOl024259 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:35:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B2ZogH008047; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:35:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B2ZTD7053450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:35:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B2ZScR053932; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:35:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net (imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B2ZPtc053807 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:35:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from picmajik@aol.com) Received: from ibm60aec.bellsouth.net ([68.19.26.59]) by imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060311023520.XKDH27444.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm60aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:35:20 -0500 Received: from debra ([68.19.26.59]) by ibm60aec.bellsouth.net with SMTP id <20060311023519.YJIU1931.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@debra> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:35:19 -0500 From: "Debra" To: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:35:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 237 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:35:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44123786.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne, thank you for that wonderful link. My great-grandfather's family (Sorensen) was also from Denmark and I'm finally doing some genealogy research with an aunt. I also wanted to thank you for sharing your beautiful needlework and costumes with us. Having the historic settings just sets off the clothing so well. I wish I had your patience for the embroidery work. Debra in Georgia, USA -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Hi. > Just to let you know that Rosenborg Castle has made a fantastic website > where you can examine the individual costumes worn by the danish kings. You > can turn the pictures round, so you can see every corner of it, and there > are patterns and details in PDF files format. > Only in danish i am sorry, but i am sure you can find something out. > http://www.kongedragter.dk/ > Have fun!! > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 237 ***************************************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 23:10:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B4AYqZ002201 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:10:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B4AWMO005842; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:10:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B49jWX063401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:09:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B49ifU024810; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:09:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B49fbU024768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:09:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eliz@net.indra.com) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.12.9/Submit) id k2B49fgw024767 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:09:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eliz) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:09:41 -0700 From: Mark To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] jester costume Message-ID: <20060311040941.GA20189@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:10:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44124DB8.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO [Please reply privately, as this person is not on the mailing list.] A friend of mine send me your e-mail about the Jester costume. I am a professional costumer & specialize in Customized Historic Costuming (mostly 1500's upper - 1900's). I am interested to know more about the project. Can you give me more details. Thank you. Mark D. Lakowske Master Oliver Higgins, Personal Tailor to their Majesties and Royal Court Minnesota Renaissance Festival - Royal Court Fabric of Time - Period Design Customized Historical Costuming http://www.myspace.com/fabricoftimeperioddesign _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 23:28:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B4S3Yh004218 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:28:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B4S6Mn011436; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:28:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B4Rolc065282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:27:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B4RnDX038185; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:27:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B4Rj4E038143 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:27:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.251.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.251] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FHvhg-00033d-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:27:45 -0500 Message-ID: <44125F8E.80005@faucet.net> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:26:38 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff RE: dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:28:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441251D6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO otsisto wrote: > To achieve the look you need 3 layers. Otherwise it will only have the heart > frills in the top loops or the bottom. > You will need to have excess of the frill material to achieve the desired > effect. I can do it in paper with two layers that are the same length. As the original poster of the two-layer solution suggested (sorry, I can't remember who it was), you just make figure-eights as usual with both layers, then in each loop, bend the inner layer into the little heart shape. The inner layer on the top loop of each figure eight will be the outer layer on the adjacent bottom loop. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 01:32:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B6WZJS012910 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:32:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B6WbaY010229; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:32:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B6WDFw082065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:32:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B6W6hZ029726; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:32:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.178.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2B6W2HJ029669 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:32:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 52305 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2006 06:31:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=yU43dxOSbk6ZqPYnHZD8Izmw+kOhLqH2m3jd+UoryJ15x7b1jZ405gKg0lT+w3jWqe8czvJMbObv9Hx8Ou7z7tl8lbjZexmraSG6lO7MBvx6sptHIkm0Dd2iIUdCEktrJlYAnGbvxIdyXQyH3rqtstHnmJyp1HXneAwZ5ryD2ns= ; Message-ID: <20060311063157.52303.qmail@web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.126.35] by web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:31:57 PST Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:31:57 -0800 (PST) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <009c01c64493$db5c2c10$154d4e40@Stuckis> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:32:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44126F05.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO hmmmm....how about Cap'n Jack IN a kilt?????? ultimate rowwhhh!double oye! melody --- Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > > > > And yeah, if you got a hubby willing to dress like > Capt'n Jack... oye. > > Enjoy yourselves. ;-) > > I fell in love with my husband because he enjoyed > wearing kilts... I > > really like men in kilts. > > > > Kimiko > > Last week's People magazine had a photo of Johnny > Depp, taken on the set of > the new POtC movie. He was shirtless...rarr. > > Dianne > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 05:08:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BA8g4W016101 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:08:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BA8hgU029779; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:08:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BA8EHq006279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:08:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ALUuwX000724; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:30:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ALUnPQ000546 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:30:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FHpBs-000GSQ-6d for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:30:28 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:29:20 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" References: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c6427d$498388a0$0300a8c0@boris> <9510f346ef2cc50bc491e941c3434449@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <9510f346ef2cc50bc491e941c3434449@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:08:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412A1AB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Susan Data-Samtak wrote snip > > I've also heard that many of the "conventions" followed by sidesaddle >riders today, using english style sidesaddles, go back to Victorian >times when so much of life was codified. One example that was pointed >out to me: black gloves are appropriate to use for US Rev War >impressions, but definitely not for US Civil War, because Victorians >used black gloves as part of their mourning attire and "A Lady would >not be riding if she were in mourning. A Lady would stay at home, or >be driven in a carriage." Can anyone confirm such a statement? > snip My impression is that Ladies rode for exercise and pleasure, rather than to get from A to B, therefore it is not something one would do while in mourning. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 05:38:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BAcSl9019174 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:38:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BAcWJp003282; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:38:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BAbxVe010286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:37:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BAbvpe099198; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:37:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BAbpDJ099147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:37:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 30199 invoked by uid 507); 11 Mar 2006 21:37:49 +1100 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 11 Mar 2006 21:37:49 +1100 Message-ID: <084e01c644f7$d235cd30$0202a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com><00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis><44120287.3030200@lavoltapress.com> <002d01c644a0$13c4ab70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birds Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:37:29 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:38:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412A8A8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sounds like a Galah: galah.galahs.com.au/content/php/article016.php Can't say I've ever met an Australian parrot that's easy to deal with. Our old neighbours had a Sulpher Crested Cockatoo who would 'stage whisper' in the middle of the night, too many times we thought someone had broken in! It would also shriek late at night too. We ended up spraying it with our hose when it shrieked. They're quite clever, so eventually it got the hint. My parents had wild parrots eat their wooden pergola and their geranium bed, and the mess the local cockatoos leave of our flowering eucalypts has to be seen to be believed - they just rip all the flowers off the trees and drop them to the ground. The one that was friendly must have been very tame! We're all fairly wary (or is it scared) of them over here. But they're very pretty. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- > Hi, yes > I know that personality to a bird. When i studyed at the design school, we > had a day in the zoo to draw animals. I preferred to draw the birds. > Especially one of them an australian one rose colloured with tall feathers > on the head, dont know the name, i got quite friendly with, and i could > stick in my finger and pet it . > After lunch, i hurried back, and the bird was waiting for me ( i thoaght) > but when i took the finger into him, he just bite me so hard you cant > imagine. I guess it was another one, and not the other one i had pet > before lunch. > I never forget that bird................ > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 05:53:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BArSsa020488 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:53:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BAr0Pl006438; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:53:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BAqfVx011508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:52:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BAqZHf007869; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:52:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BAqV5p007819 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:52:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 819EC339D8 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:52:30 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:52:31 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:53:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412AC0C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I wonder how common Sorenson is. I know of many in Minnesota and a few in Missouri. Interestingly, in trying to search for the name Tias, I was told to try Denmark. As yet this seemingly obscure surname doesn't seem to be Danish. Doesn't seem to be any nationality.:P And speaking of Danish, Has anyone made Danish lace and is there a recommended book on how to do it? De -----Original Message----- (snip) My great-grandfather's family (Sorensen) was also from Denmark and I'm finally doing some genealogy research with an aunt. (snip) Debra in Georgia, USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 05:57:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BAvVVU021232 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:57:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BAva3g007358; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:57:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BAvNam011859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:57:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BAvNQF010390; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:57:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BAvJeb010338 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:57:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e2.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.226]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B9B9C47FEA7 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:57:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002501c644fa$91b7ea60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com><00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis><44120287.3030200@lavoltapress.com><002d01c644a0$13c4ab70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <084e01c644f7$d235cd30$0202a8c0@mycomputer> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birds Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:57:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:57:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412AD20.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, The best parrot i know is a grey Jaco parrot. They are African. An ex boyfriend of mine was a cirkus artist, and his house was full of parrots, snakes and turtles. He even had some rare chinese mandarin ducks in the garden pond. When i lived with him, i got quite good friends with Jaco, the african parrot. I could even take him with me outside sitting on my shoulder, and he would´nt fly away. He also learned a few words with my voice, he always said Jaco - Juhuuuuuu when i arrived home to him. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birds > Sounds like a Galah: > > galah.galahs.com.au/content/php/article016.php > > Can't say I've ever met an Australian parrot that's easy to deal with. > > Our old neighbours had a Sulpher Crested Cockatoo who would 'stage > whisper' > in the middle of the night, too many times we thought someone had broken > in! > It would also shriek late at night too. We ended up spraying it with our > hose when it shrieked. They're quite clever, so eventually it got the > hint. > My parents had wild parrots eat their wooden pergola and their geranium > bed, > and the mess the local cockatoos leave of our flowering eucalypts has to > be > seen to be believed - they just rip all the flowers off the trees and drop > them to the ground. > > The one that was friendly must have been very tame! We're all fairly wary > (or is it scared) of them over here. But they're very pretty. > > Glenda. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> Hi, yes >> I know that personality to a bird. When i studyed at the design school, >> we >> had a day in the zoo to draw animals. I preferred to draw the birds. >> Especially one of them an australian one rose colloured with tall >> feathers >> on the head, dont know the name, i got quite friendly with, and i could >> stick in my finger and pet it . >> After lunch, i hurried back, and the bird was waiting for me ( i thoaght) >> but when i took the finger into him, he just bite me so hard you cant >> imagine. I guess it was another one, and not the other one i had pet >> before lunch. >> I never forget that bird................ >> >> Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 06:01:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BB1O0N022501 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:01:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BB1QkI008187; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:01:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BB0uUB012118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:00:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BB0pKa012244; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:00:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BB0jpu012190 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:00:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A5C933885 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:00:45 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:00:46 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <44125F8E.80005@faucet.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: layers still: Ruff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:01:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412AE06.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO But from the picture, the inner "heart" piece looks to be of a lighter weight then the surrounding loop which is why I believe that it is 3 layers and not two. De -----Original Message----- I can do it in paper with two layers that are the same length. As the original poster of the two-layer solution suggested (sorry, I can't remember who it was), you just make figure-eights as usual with both layers, then in each loop, bend the inner layer into the little heart shape. The inner layer on the top loop of each figure eight will be the outer layer on the adjacent bottom loop. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 06:09:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BB9EaA025594 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:09:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BB8nAP009797; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:09:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BB8Rlc012799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:08:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BB8NbB016694; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:08:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BB8JOm016644 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:08:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e2.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.226]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8947647FE6D for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:08:18 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002801c644fc$232c9710$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:08:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:09:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412AFC1.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi De, Sorensen would be Sørensen in danish. It is rather common with the name Petersen, Nielsen, Jensen and so on. It is the first name of a person with sen in the end. Sen means son. Sørens son, Henriks son and so on. Tias is a rare name, dont you think it could have ben a name someone had buyed? Danish laces ah yes, i have many experiments with these The danish laces are called Tønder laces, after a city in the south of Jutland. In this county there used to live thousinds of lacemakers back in 18th century, and there was an industry since the 17th century and documentation also that it was made there in 16th century. They always made laces after the fashion, f.instance when Arras laces was fashionable, they made Arras, Lille in fashion, they made Lille and so on. The laces most people think about today, when thinking Tønder laces, are tulle ground laces with floral patterns. These were made from end of 18th century till well into the 20th century. One of the best books about some danish patterns would be: Johanne Nyrup Larsen: Knipling efter tegning. (Lace made from drawings) Inge Wind Skovgaard: Tønderkniplinger I- and II. The last 30 years the lacemaking has become a renaissance here, many young people wants to learn. I am afraid that you will have some troubble in finding english books on the subjekt but if you are interrested, i am willing to send you some patterns if you like. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + >I wonder how common Sorenson is. I know of many in Minnesota and a few in > Missouri. > Interestingly, in trying to search for the name Tias, I was told to try > Denmark. As yet this seemingly obscure surname doesn't seem to be Danish. > Doesn't seem to be any nationality.:P > > And speaking of Danish, Has anyone made Danish lace and is there a > recommended book on how to do it? > > De > > -----Original Message----- > (snip) > My great-grandfather's family > (Sorensen) was also from Denmark and I'm finally doing some genealogy > research with an aunt. > (snip) > Debra in Georgia, USA > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 09:09:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BE9uKk031270 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:09:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BE9vb7001133; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:10:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BE9RhA043101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:09:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BE9Ntp040799; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:09:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25914.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25914.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.176.252]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2BBkvsq042073 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:46:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 60604 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2006 11:46:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=q3aD6ZecIW+4XyS0nOIu8VGMhT9pN0O8OoynDEDXSrxHgtX35Ynt7ZxSoZ3uWDRolQPR5iuV4gCPQsGL4ZBMLNCN2lU3OsZfbyv4ZIEBDQ/c6eBxBlXUly1sLHJllLqTuovCYMeERhDJIdK3EREeVjNdCa+dSrLb1Jrt+9xWnkM= ; Message-ID: <20060311114651.60602.qmail@web25914.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [87.244.69.160] by web25914.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:46:51 GMT Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:46:51 +0000 (GMT) From: julian wilson To: Bjarne og Leif Drews In-Reply-To: <002801c644fc$232c9710$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Burano's historic lace museums & Venice's "Historic Costumiers" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:10:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412DA35.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Sorensen would be Sørensen in danish. SNIPPAGE Danish laces ah yes, i have many experiments with these MUCH SNIPPAGE Comment Dear Bjarne, your e-mail header "Sorensen" - is not about a subjects which I'd normally spend time - the lace being a section of "costume history" about which I know very little. However,....... Burano's Lace Shops and Museums For the future, - if you ever decide to visit Venice on holiday, - the little island of BURANO, in the Venetian Lagoon, - is still - [and was for centuries] - a community of lacemaking Families. The entire village main street is lined with Family-owned shops devoted mainly to Lace, with some embroidery, - and every single one Sally and I entered this summer on our afternoon-long visit to the island, - has it's own little Museum Display of Lacework created just by that Family in the past. The exhibits are all preserved under glass, and generally hanging on the walls in an area specially set-aside at the back of each shop. Never have I seen so much historic lace and embroidery gathered together in such a small location - it's only a small island, and only now supports one village; - though at the height of it's lacemaking days, the island is said to have had thousands of lacemakers in the much-larger historic Population. From what I recall of the translated notices on the exhibits, - the Venetian lacemaking industry really began in Burano during the early 16th Century, when the Serene Republic was just past the peak of it's greatest political and military Power, and had begun it's long, slow descent into decadence. If you ever go to Venice, - with your particular interests, - Burano would really be worth a leisurely visit. Historic Costumers in Venice: - Also, with your particular interests, - it might be worth noting that Venice itself is home to a significant number of small, Family-run, Historic Costumiers, They originally came into being to "service" the touristic demand for "Carnival" costumes, - but have since branched-out into costuming for Film-makers and for Museums. Sally and I visited several of them - and came-away from those visits suffering "sensory overload" from all of the wonderful "historic outfits" which were displayed for us to see. Yours in Service, Matthew ["Messire Matthew Baker", Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto - "Si vis pacem, para bellum" (Trans:-"if you wish for Peace, prepare for War") ] aka. - Julian Wilson, - late-medieval Re-enactor; Herald, Historian, & Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the Island of "olde" Jersey's only mediæval living-history Group] Meet us at < www.dukesleopards.org >" [input] - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Cars NEW - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online search now --------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 10:51:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BFpDuK002255 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:51:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BFpHOd029191; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:51:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BFoo6d053795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:50:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BFolEQ011097; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:50:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BFoiMZ011073 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:50:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm29.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C750E40399 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:50:43 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm29 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060311075043.E21581F3@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:50:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EEvHTiRtynwEAAAAB,164be5643ae6c2f6817400ad4dff8abd X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:51:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412F1F5.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Would this be the portrait, Bjarne? http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/paintings/1700/bourgogne.jpg And a rather lovely doll, modelled after this portrait: http://www.finavondolls.com/collection/doll.php/10 Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BGL6DZ003181 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:21:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BGLA0F005487; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:21:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BGKwUx056191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:20:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BGKub5031776; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:20:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BGKrE8031723 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:20:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A958247FE85 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:20:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001901c64527$c8f0c060$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:20:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] english rosenborg X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:21:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412F8F6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I am so sorry, they did have an english version with the danish kings outfits: http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/v1/person.asp?PersonID=9&countryID=2&PersonTypeID=1 Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 11:38:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BGcodc003712 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:38:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BGcswf010940; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:38:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BGccLI057595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:38:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BGcbN0044385; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:38:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BGcWRw044317 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:38:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C68CA262836 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:38:30 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002901c6452a$44ddb000$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060311075043.E21581F3@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:38:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:38:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412FD1E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Joannah, Yes this was the portrait i ment from the italian costume book. That doll maker is incredible, what detail, and the likeness of the persons is incredible, thanks for posting the link.. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > Would this be the portrait, Bjarne? > > http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/paintings/1700/bourgogne.jpg > > And a rather lovely doll, modelled after this portrait: > > http://www.finavondolls.com/collection/doll.php/10 > > Joannah > > ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ > > --- drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: > > title, > Burgundy. > large > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 16:09:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BL9Rll013254 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:09:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BL9VXC025427; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:09:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BL8r5k087669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:08:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BL8hsx053565; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:08:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BL8dXS053498 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:08:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FIBKI-0001p3-9L for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:08:39 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:13:00 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? References: <009c01c64493$db5c2c10$154d4e40@Stuckis> <20060311063157.52303.qmail@web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060311063157.52303.qmail@web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<091N+ZDc4zdsIH4tiakTWKYwHE>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:09:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44133C8B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Oh no - I put a kilt together with Cap'n Jack's way of walking and I get - centre of Glasgow on a Saturday night! Not a good picture! Jean Melody Watts wrote > hmmmm....how about Cap'n Jack IN a kilt?????? >ultimate rowwhhh!double oye! > melody > >--- Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > >> >> > >> > And yeah, if you got a hubby willing to dress like >> Capt'n Jack... oye. >> > Enjoy yourselves. ;-) >> > I fell in love with my husband because he enjoyed >> wearing kilts... I >> > really like men in kilts. >> > >> > Kimiko >> >> Last week's People magazine had a photo of Johnny >> Depp, taken on the set of >> the new POtC movie. He was shirtless...rarr. >> >> Dianne >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam >protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 17:57:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BMvgMM018615 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:57:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BMvkbe022077; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:57:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BMvCtm098204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:57:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BMv9l3030950; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:57:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BMv3mM030816 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:57:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.71]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060311225657.BQLN27467.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:56:57 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060310083618.028921d0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:56:53 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <1141984142.450.25879.m19@yahoogroups.com> References: <1141984142.450.25879.m19@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanish patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:57:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441355EA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I believe that the correct URL is: http://www.vertetsable.com/research_freyle.htm Beth At 03:49 AM 3/10/2006, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:01:04 -0800 (PST) > From: Esperanza de Navarra >Subject: 16th Century Spanish patterns > >I found this neat site for those of you with late Spanish personas: > http://web.archive.org/web/20030204224256/www.vertetsable.com/freyle.htm > > I had to get it from the web archive since it looks like it is no > longer there. > > It has copies of manuscript pages from Diego de Freyle (1588) > which looks to be a book of patterns for clothing. If you are even > a moderate garb maker, you can easily pick out what is what. > > Esperanza de Navarra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 18:25:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BNPkX4019767 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:25:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BNPpFc030895; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:25:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BNPUPg000631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:25:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BNPTJK050918; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:25:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BNPOc3050865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:25:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-245.sonic.net [209.148.114.245]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2BNPMsj030339 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:25:23 -0800 Message-ID: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:25:22 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tea towels X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:25:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44135C7F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Does anyone know where to get tea towels/dish towels of the non-pile linen or cotton type, preferably from the US? With more or less historic-looking printed or woven designs such as tapestry, medieval, William Morris, Art Nouveau, Arts & Crafts, Victorian . . . you get the idea. With nice designs but not cute/sweet. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 19:23:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C0NlZN021661 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C0Nn1I014368; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C0NOUm006490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:23:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C0NLju092663; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:23:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C0NIIw092529 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:23:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Taniampembroke@aol.com) Received: from Taniampembroke@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.241.86b4f89 (16109) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from MBLK-R08 (mblk-r08.mblk.aol.com [152.163.211.199]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed441369ea125; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:06 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:03 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8138242B4029F-BF0-29A1@MBLK-R08.sysops.aol.com> From: taniampembroke@aol.com References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> Received: from 65.10.238.215 by MBLK-R08.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.199) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:03 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.199 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44136A15.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Try www.victoriantradingco.com they usually have stuff like that. Tania -----Original Message----- From: Lavolta Press To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:25:22 -0800 Subject: [h-cost] Tea towels Does anyone know where to get tea towels/dish towels of the non-pile linen or cotton type, preferably from the US? With more or less historic-looking printed or woven designs such as tapestry, medieval, William Morris, Art Nouveau, Arts & Crafts, Victorian . . . you get the idea. With nice designs but not cute/sweet. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 21:06:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C2640T030446 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:06:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C266wR010777; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:06:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C25R63018850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:05:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C25Odi065207; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:05:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C25LL7065091 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:05:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVZ004MHSGPXMZ6@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:05:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:05:13 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanish patterns In-reply-to: <6.0.0.22.0.20060310083618.028921d0@mail.alltel.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: Laurel , Maunche X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:06:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413820E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Speaking of late Spanish personas... About 10 years ago there was a Sofanisba Anguisola(sp) exhibit down at the Museum of Women in the Arts in Washington DC. There was a rather large painting of an Infanta (Spanish princess) who was the daughter of Philip II. She was wearing mourning for her mother and was in all black-- including her jewelry. Has anyone else ever seen this? It is supposed to be ion the Prado, but I have never seen it reproduced anywhere. If you know where I can find this, please let me know! Thanks. Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 5:57 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanish patterns I believe that the correct URL is: http://www.vertetsable.com/research_freyle.htm Beth At 03:49 AM 3/10/2006, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:01:04 -0800 (PST) > From: Esperanza de Navarra >Subject: 16th Century Spanish patterns > >I found this neat site for those of you with late Spanish personas: > http://web.archive.org/web/20030204224256/www.vertetsable.com/freyle.htm > > I had to get it from the web archive since it looks like it is no > longer there. > > It has copies of manuscript pages from Diego de Freyle (1588) > which looks to be a book of patterns for clothing. If you are even > a moderate garb maker, you can easily pick out what is what. > > Esperanza de Navarra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 21:19:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C2JCGv031595 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:19:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C2JHZQ013714; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:19:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C2Itnw020339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:18:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C2IsdF074588; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:18:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail4.tpgi.com.au (mail4.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C2InDh074515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:18:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-215-2-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.215.2]) by mail4.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k2C2IkRX024576 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:18:47 +1100 Message-ID: <009f01c6457b$4b414320$02d7f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:18:45 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:19:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44138525.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The only one I know of is the reproduction medieval table linens carried by Historic Enterprises http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=113 But wouldn't most tea towels have been fairly plain and functional, possibly even rags (when your linen underwear wears out in one place you can cut down the rest of the smock/shirt to make something useful, like a tea towel). Unless you can think of a context in which they would be seen by guests (as if you could afford to have an ornamental tea towel your guests wouldn't see your kitchen) Elizabeth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: [h-cost] Tea towels > Does anyone know where to get tea towels/dish towels of the non-pile linen > or cotton type, preferably from the US? With more or less > historic-looking printed or woven designs such as tapestry, medieval, > William Morris, Art Nouveau, Arts & Crafts, Victorian . . . you get the > idea. With nice designs but not cute/sweet. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 22:07:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C374Gc004797 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:07:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C378qL025925; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:07:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C36hfX025307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:06:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C36fd7007121; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:06:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C36aEJ006988 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:06:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from web3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060312030630.EUIB16058.avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@web3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:06:30 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.183.2]) by web3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060312030624.HUBD22512.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:06:24 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.1/279]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:06:19 +1300 Message-ID: <004401c64581$ef07c780$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanishpatterns Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:06:15 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:07:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413905C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > About 10 years ago there was a Sofanisba Anguisola(sp) exhibit down at the > Museum of Women in the Arts in Washington DC. There was a rather large > painting of an Infanta (Spanish princess) who was the daughter of Philip II. > She was wearing mourning for her mother and was in all black-- including her > jewelry. Has anyone else ever seen this? It is supposed to be ion the Prado, > but I have never seen it reproduced anywhere. If you know where I can find > this, please let me know! Thanks. Let me know if its one of the paintings here: http://sayaespanola.glittersweet.com Otherwise I have a few books at the local fine arts library I can have a hunt trhough and see if there is similar painting. I have a few more portraits I haven't uploaded/linked to in my site so it may be I have it on file and not on the web. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 22:21:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3KqUH005543 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:20:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3KvFw029377; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:20:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3KLw2027317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:20:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3KKHd016168; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:20:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3KDx7016080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:20:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-245.sonic.net [209.148.114.245]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2C3KBGn022210 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:20:12 -0800 Message-ID: <4413936C.3020109@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:20:12 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> <009f01c6457b$4b414320$02d7f5dc@user4712b7d135> In-Reply-To: <009f01c6457b$4b414320$02d7f5dc@user4712b7d135> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:21:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44139399.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > The only one I know of is the reproduction medieval table linens carried > by Historic Enterprises > http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=113 But > wouldn't most tea towels have been fairly plain and functional, possibly > even rags (when your linen underwear wears out in one place you can cut > down the rest of the smock/shirt to make something useful, like a tea > towel). Unless you can think of a context in which they would be seen by > guests (as if you could afford to have an ornamental tea towel your > guests wouldn't see your kitchen) These aren't for reenactment. I just like to have everything possible around my house be things I really like, whether anyone else sees the stuff or not. And I much prefer historic looking textiles (of many periods) to most modern ones. It would be more virtuous to use up some of my linen scraps, but I don't feel like it right now. Thanks for the link, Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 22:40:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3egHC006970 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:40:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3elqc002064; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:40:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3eDYk029576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:40:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3e9p5030271; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:40:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3e3vo030147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:40:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FIHR5-0008VP-7t; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:40:03 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:40:03 -0500 Message-ID: <20060311224003.3tigaaj5gjxsswc0@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:40:03 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanish patterns References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:40:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413983F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting monica spence : > Speaking of late Spanish personas... > > About 10 years ago there was a Sofanisba Anguisola(sp) exhibit down at the > Museum of Women in the Arts in Washington DC. There was a rather large > painting of an Infanta (Spanish princess) who was the daughter of Philip II. > She was wearing mourning for her mother and was in all black-- including her > jewelry. Has anyone else ever seen this? It is supposed to be ion the Prado, > but I have never seen it reproduced anywhere. If you know where I can find > this, please let me know! Thanks. Might it be this one http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_01a.jpg Jerusha (who *really* likes Sofonisba's works) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 22:55:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3t695007618 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:55:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3tA4E005701; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:55:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3so84031044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:54:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3snhW040160; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:54:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3skUC040113 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:54:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B62136A55 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:54:45 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:54:47 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002801c644fc$232c9710$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:55:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44139B9F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I knew about the sen and son part of the name. :) There is a possibility the name Tias might have been Ties. I've pretty much given up the search. Most of my families records lead to a dead end due to fires at the court houses.:P The Danish lace info is for a friend's cousin who is trying to recreate a 1800s wedding dress from a picture and letters. A letter mentions something about the dress lace being Danish lace. So she was wanting to learn how to make the lace. De -----Original Message----- Hi De, Sorensen would be Sørensen in danish. It is rather common with the name Petersen, Nielsen, Jensen and so on. It is the first name of a person with sen in the end. Sen means son. Sørens son, Henriks son and so on. Tias is a rare name, dont you think it could have ben a name someone had buyed? Danish laces ah yes, i have many experiments with these The danish laces are called Tønder laces, after a city in the south of Jutland. In this county there used to live thousinds of lacemakers back in 18th century, and there was an industry since the 17th century and documentation also that it was made there in 16th century. They always made laces after the fashion, f.instance when Arras laces was fashionable, they made Arras, Lille in fashion, they made Lille and so on. The laces most people think about today, when thinking Tønder laces, are tulle ground laces with floral patterns. These were made from end of 18th century till well into the 20th century. One of the best books about some danish patterns would be: Johanne Nyrup Larsen: Knipling efter tegning. (Lace made from drawings) Inge Wind Skovgaard: Tønderkniplinger I- and II. The last 30 years the lacemaking has become a renaissance here, many young people wants to learn. I am afraid that you will have some troubble in finding english books on the subjekt but if you are interrested, i am willing to send you some patterns if you like. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 22:55:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3tZC7007649 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:55:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3teqe013116; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:55:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3tRs2031105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:55:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3tQO6040538; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:55:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3tGeB040475 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:55:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-177-210.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.177.210]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3tEhs007787 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:55:15 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060311215445.01d10230@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:55:06 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" In-Reply-To: <9510f346ef2cc50bc491e941c3434449@aol.com> References: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c6427d$498388a0$0300a8c0@boris> <9510f346ef2cc50bc491e941c3434449@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:55:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44139BBC.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Susan, I've only stumbled across this post by accident while deleting this thread... (not much of a rider being deathly allergic to animals)... Anyway, I've seen an extant 16th c. English sidesaddle (Shakespeare's Birthplace Museum) so I know they existed before 1800, and it is one of the oddest looking things I've seen. I wasn't allowed to take photos there and there weren't any postcards of it (unfortunately) but if memory serves me it was sea-green leather thing (however, I could be misremembering and it might have been more blue than that) with silver braid in chevron-pattern or stripes. It was basically perfectly flat, oval shape on top with the pommel sticking up like a monolith at the center front. There wasn't much else too it, beside a rather normal looking saddle understructure - it was like instead of having a normal saddle seat they filled that area in and stuck a plate on top of it. It looked incredibly uncomfortable to sit on, and I would imagine it would cut of the circulation to your legs in no time at all. IIRC, there is a drawing of a woman using a contraption to sit sideways on a horse in Ruth Matilda Anderson's "Hispanic Costume: 1480 - 1530" as well. I found it interesting that Queen Elizabeth's saddle at Warwick Castle is a normal "astride" saddle, if rather ornamented. Cheers, Danielle At 10:33 AM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >Thanks, Melusine. > > From what I've learned, so far, riding clothes were not very > different from regular clothes until rather recently. Sidesaddles > are also a recent invention. I've heard that sidesaddles, as we > understand the term, did not exist prior to about 1800. I don't > know if that is true. >Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 23:14:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C4Eath008247 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:14:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C4EeM9010005; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:14:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C4EC8Q032748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:14:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C4E8ET052670; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:14:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C4E5xx052601 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:14:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.b7.6ac872f2 (18403) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:13:55 -0500 (EST) From: TeaRoseS@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:13:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:14:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413A030.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO So, since this is a hunting costume, is that really long train at the back intended to drape over the horse as in the other two portraits that were posted to the list? Tea Rose, who is planning a loose interpretation of a gown just like this. In a message dated 3/11/2006 1:01:46 P.M. Central Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:50:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Would this be the portrait, Bjarne? http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/paintings/1700/bourgogne.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 23:31:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C4VtC3008771 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C4W0N6013919; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:32:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C4Vj3r034738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C4Vi3L064531; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C4Vf7P064423 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.1f6.1ccc05c0 (15886) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID81-3e0e4413a42215b; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:30 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) To: Historical Costume Message-Id: <0ccd6de47af1a7bbac72a63128767f05@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:29 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] equestrian site- aside or astride? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:32:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413A440.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2C4VtC3008771 Status: RO Here is much info to digest. Comments? http://ilaria.veltri.tripod.com/sidesaddle.html Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 23:32:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C4WT98008794 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:32:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C4WY1R024089; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:32:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C4VpVf034746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C4Vpu9064589; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C4Vlo1064488 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.9a.37c501c2 (15886) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID81-3e0e4413a429184; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:37 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <00be01c64427$bc06e6a0$f7ddf5dc@user4712b7d135> References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <00be01c64427$bc06e6a0$f7ddf5dc@user4712b7d135> Message-Id: <45c64a08c3585da46b5beb337d85226b@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:36 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:32:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413A462.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2C4WT98008794 Status: RO Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 10, 2006, at 4:48 AM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > While we're on the topic of Equestrian Costume I came across this > fashion plate > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/ > 1859septharpers.jpg from 1859. I was under the impression that women > didn't wear hoops or skirt supports (of whatever style was fashionable > at the time) when they were riding (as hoops would stand out from the > horse's side giving those below a view straight up your skirt and > bustles or paniers would get in the way of you sitting on the horse), > but it seems difficult to believe there isn't a crinoline under that > skirt. > Does anybody have an explanation for why she would wear a crinoline > with her riding costume? All I can think of is that maybe it's a way > to use up the extra length in the riding habit, but the 2 big problems > with that are A. all the fullness is on one side and B. it would mean > putting a crinoline on underneath your skirts in public. And I'm > pretty sure Victorian riding habits were only worn when you planned to > be actually riding, so no chance of having one for show and one for > actually getting on a horse. > I'm stumped, if anybody else can offer insights I'm really curious to > know. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 00:08:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C580LQ010048 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:08:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C584D7022549; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:08:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C57SbV038278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:07:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C57QNa087934; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:07:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-6.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-6.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.24]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C57NPC087830 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:07:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (d14-69-244-104.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.104.244]) by pop-6.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k2C57Hm28039 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:07:17 -0600 Message-ID: <4413AD75.60403@wideopenwest.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:11:17 -0500 From: Michelle Plumb User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87, clamav-milter version 0.87 on pop-6.dnv.wideopenwest.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:08:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413ACB4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I know how you feel, Bjarne. My family research hit a wall too, due to a language barrier and a revolution. My great-great-great--(forget how many greats) grandfather left France in 1786 (3 years before the French Revolution) for Canada at the age of two. I don't speak French, and even if I did the odds of any records surviving the Revolution probably aren't good. On the other hand, a cousin has traced my great-great--(again, forgot how many greats) grandmother, Lady Anne Gosse, to 1660s England. I think we have an SCA persona here! I can borrow her name and craft a history based on the info my cousin dug up. Michelle, seeing the cup half-full. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 01:26:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C6QV5m012745 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:26:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C6QapW009180; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:26:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C6Q6UY046774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:26:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C6Q34s043461; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:26:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C6Q0ri043415 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:26:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alderweb@vaxxine.com) Received: from oemcomputer.vaxxine.com (ppp15.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.232.15]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C6PDxG027569 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:25:13 -0500 (EST) X-RCPT-To: Message-Id: <4.3.0.20060312011925.023562f0@pop.vaxxine.com> X-Sender: alderweb@vaxxine.com@pop.vaxxine.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:25:59 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: david webb In-Reply-To: <0ccd6de47af1a7bbac72a63128767f05@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Source for aesthetic style silk X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:26:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413BF1C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Greetings: At $345 Canadian a yard - not even in metres! I'm glad I'm not interested in doing anything in the aesthetic style, but it shure nuff is purty! "This rich silk fabric is based on an original made in England in the 1880's. The document (original) colour is in a Robin's Egg blue on Cream, but it is offered in six other colours as well." http://www.charlesrupert.com/traditional/1880to1900/aestheticsilk.html This company has a wide variety of reproduction wallpapers and textiles too. Sheridan Alder _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 05:19:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CAJnRU030574 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:19:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CAJsnA020451; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:19:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CAJJWF072992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 03:19:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CAJEtA001404; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 03:19:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CAJA4S001354 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 03:19:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A6AB262847 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:19:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002901c645be$6ec8e440$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4413AD75.60403@wideopenwest.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:19:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:19:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413F5CA.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Michelle, It was not me, who could not trace my family. It was De. My family name Drews is traced back to Friesland in nothern Germany. It was one of these, who came to Denmark to grow the new potatoes. In Germany many people is called Drews, but here in Denmark we are only 2 families with that name. I think there was a danish king, who gave away land for the new potato pheassants. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Plumb" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + >I know how you feel, Bjarne. > > My family research hit a wall too, due to a language barrier and a > revolution. > > My great-great-great--(forget how many greats) grandfather left France in > 1786 (3 years before the French Revolution) for Canada at the age of two. > > I don't speak French, and even if I did the odds of any records surviving > the Revolution probably aren't good. > > On the other hand, a cousin has traced my great-great--(again, forgot how > many greats) grandmother, Lady Anne Gosse, to 1660s England. > > I think we have an SCA persona here! I can borrow her name and craft a > history based on the info my cousin dug up. > > Michelle, seeing the cup half-full. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 07:57:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CCvhHB008418 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:57:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CCvlmq028332; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:57:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CCv7xP096894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:57:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CCv4Sl009717; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:57:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CCuwUL009665 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:57:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm25.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F55F17FD5 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 04:56:58 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm25 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060312045658.E2193E89@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 04:56:58 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EFBqa4xTa2AEAAAAB,067add733ad44d20c8df4d34f44cfb4e X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:57:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44141ACB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO That was probably a galah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galah Whenever I hear galahs calling/screaming, it reminds me of being on my grandma's farm in northwest Victoria. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: Hi, yes I know that personality to a bird. When i studyed at the design school, we had a day in the zoo to draw animals. I preferred to draw the birds. Especially one of them an australian one rose colloured with tall feathers on the head, dont know the name, i got quite friendly with, and i could stick in my finger and pet it . After lunch, i hurried back, and the bird was waiting for me ( i thoaght) but when i took the finger into him, he just bite me so hard you cant imagine. I guess it was another one, and not the other one i had pet before lunch. I never forget that bird................ Bjarne _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 08:10:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDA0Uv008811 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:10:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDA5K3032107; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:10:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CD9jmL001860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:09:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CD9hES019577; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:09:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CD9bcP019501 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:09:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm24.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD8A940386 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:09:37 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm24 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060312050937.E2193F08@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:09:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danish ancestors X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EFB2REOqa1gEAAAAB,a1585cc2b34171a13166f37987a1a0ae X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:10:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44141DAD.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Your great-grandfather, too, Roscelin? My great-grandfather Hansen was a Danish sailor, which is how he ended up in Brisbane and met my great-grandmother. We've probably both got relatives all over Denmark. :-) A funny story about names - when my mother was pregnant with me, she wanted to choose a name which would go well with the Danish Hansen name. She saw a book of Danish baby names advertised somwhere, and sent away for it. When it arrived, she discovered it was IN Danish! ( She only knows English. ) I'm not sure how she came up with name I was christened with, or the spelling. I know there are other people with the same spelling, but I've never met one - all other variations of Joanna, Johanna, etc. Ive met - but not mine. Joannah. ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- roscelinlimoges@comcast.net wrote: What a wonderful website. This is when I wish I need knew how to speak my great grandfather's native language. He was from Copenhagen. Roscelin _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 08:17:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDHXTN009090 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:17:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDHcCI002102; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:17:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CDGAqP003966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:16:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDG8Yd025087; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:16:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDG5Xm024965 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:16:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AF0E02A8; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:15:58 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.149 ([209.131.80.149] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 12 Mar 2006 08:15:55 -0500 Message-ID: <003501c645d7$6b1596e0$955083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:18:12 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:17:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44141F72.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Fran, the only time I have seen any that might be as you describe is at antique flea markets...such as Brimfield in Ma. Sometimes there are rummage baskets with assorted (and sometimes unculled) linen. At the July (5 day session) I am usually over-warm and end up searching for a stylish sort of tea towel or dresser cloth to use as a perspiration towel, Have netted a couple with nice fringe much as you describe. The best ones of course are usually folded nicely on tables with prices to pay for the TLC. But a few don't make that far because the dealer doesn't "do" textiles and just has this old box of rags hanging about. These are of course what I look for. Brimfield happens three times a year and is located less than 10 miles from Sturbridge Village (a 19thC living history community). There are acres and acres of tents and dealers. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 6:25 PM Subject: [h-cost] Tea towels > Does anyone know where to get tea towels/dish towels of the non-pile > linen or cotton type, preferably from the US? With more or less > historic-looking printed or woven designs such as tapestry, medieval, > William Morris, Art Nouveau, Arts & Crafts, Victorian . . . you get the > idea. With nice designs but not cute/sweet. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 08:26:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDQqTO009424 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:26:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDQvU2004896; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:27:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CDQYvW008268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:26:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDQTso034284; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:26:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDQQTH034225 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:26:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm29.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C84ED3FDA7 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:26:25 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm29 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060312052625.E2193FCC@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:26:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birds X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EFCGBVdpmMQEAAAAB,c9c58b738db0fc06d81e7b4d5f0359d4 X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:27:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441421A1.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO You should hear the stories a friend of mine who works at the RSPCA here in Brisbane tells about a sulphur crested cockatoo that lives at the shelter. The bird's name is Bob, which he knows very well - even referring to himself in the third person. Bob got moved one day to the reception area, and promptly started calling himself another name. 'Scratch Harry, scratch Harry?' He completely bamboozled the reception staff - they had no idea that he was really Bob. Now, how many birds decide to have an identity change? Bob is just a bit too smart, sometimes, by the sound of things. He's also really cantankerous and unpredictable, which is why he is still at the shelter. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- glendarob@exemail.com.au wrote: Sounds like a Galah: galah.galahs.com.au/content/php/article016.php Can't say I've ever met an Australian parrot that's easy to deal with. Our old neighbours had a Sulpher Crested Cockatoo who would 'stage whisper' in the middle of the night, too many times we thought someone had broken in! It would also shriek late at night too. We ended up spraying it with our hose when it shrieked. They're quite clever, so eventually it got the hint. My parents had wild parrots eat their wooden pergola and their geranium bed, and the mess the local cockatoos leave of our flowering eucalypts has to be seen to be believed - they just rip all the flowers off the trees and drop them to the ground. The one that was friendly must have been very tame! We're all fairly wary (or is it scared) of them over here. But they're very pretty. Glenda. _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 08:51:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDp8nB010252 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:51:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDpDf2011884; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:51:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CDosZl016411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:50:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDormd054830; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:50:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDonca054719 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:50:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:50:44 -0800 Message-ID: <44142740.8090103@msn.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:50:56 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: EQ-Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT References: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2006 13:50:44.0302 (UTC) FILETIME=[F558A6E0:01C645DB] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:51:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44142751.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Wow! What an interesting observation! I too have horses and just recently bought a new one just so I could dress her and myself up! My other horses are all Quarter horses, and they just don't suit my costuming tastes. I had a side saddle made about 10 years ago for this purpose also, but for Annettes reasons, have not gotten around to using if to my cosutming ends. I would LOVE to have discussion with others of like mind. Perhaps we could keep our costuming discussions on this list because there are such good resources (and I myself love to read other's posts even if they are outside my current focus.). What if we precededed each of our equestrian posts with an EQ-as I have done, and create a Yahoo group for all the other non-costume related discussions. (I'd love to shary horse stories, pictures etc.) Yeah! Sg Kahlara wrote: >Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. > > I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and riding. I ride and own horses also. I also have made various articles of riding clothing and costumes for shows over the years (to keep it close to list topic). > > Although each individual is different, there seems to be a range of interests that most creative people share to one degree or another. For my part... > > horses, cats (or pets in general), costuming, reading, theatre, good movies, classical and traditional music, gardening, other artistically creative endeavors such as panting or some type of crafting, etc. And of course, the list always exceeds the amount of time available to pursue said interests. > > Just a little generalizing. ;-) > > Annette M > > >--------------------------------- >Brings words and photos together (easily) with > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 08:55:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDt1qR010365 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:55:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDt6Uk012980; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:55:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CDsopl017333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:54:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDsnTf057777; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:54:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDskt1057722 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:54:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 97B50A5003D for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:54:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001101c645dc$8e252b00$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060312050937.E2193F08@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danish ancestors Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:55:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:55:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414283A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, The most common name would be Johanne with an e last. Its the equivalent to Johan wich is a mans name, or perhaps Johannes, wich is a name taken from the bible. It would be John the baptist´danish name, Johannes. Yes in the end all you australian and american, would all be european origin. Wish i had the warmth here as they have in Australia. We have had frost for months now, and we long to get some spring here................ My kitchen where i sit with the puter, is not heated, so you dont want to stay here very long. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danish ancestors > Your great-grandfather, too, Roscelin? My great-grandfather Hansen was a > Danish sailor, which is how he ended up in Brisbane and met my > great-grandmother. We've probably both got relatives all over Denmark. :-) > > A funny story about names - when my mother was pregnant with me, she > wanted to choose a name which would go well with the Danish Hansen name. > She saw a book of Danish baby names advertised somwhere, and sent away for > it. When it arrived, she discovered it was IN Danish! ( She only knows > English. ) I'm not sure how she came up with name I was christened with, > or the spelling. I know there are other people with the same spelling, but > I've never met one - all other variations of Joanna, Johanna, etc. Ive > met - but not mine. > > Joannah. > > ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ > > --- roscelinlimoges@comcast.net wrote: > > What a wonderful website. This is when I wish I need knew how to speak my > great grandfather's native language. He was from Copenhagen. > > Roscelin > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 08:58:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDwP4q010465 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:58:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDwUST013926; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:58:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CDw43I018129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:58:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDw27t060244; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:58:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDvxSw060169 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:58:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 93E93262841 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:57:58 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001a01c645dd$025fce80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: EQ-Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:58:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:58:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44142906.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, Oh yes please have this disgussion on the list. Its no bother at all, and very costume contented. It would be a shame if everybody made small forums for special things, we would end up with nothing in the end, and then i would be very sad! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:50 PM Subject: EQ-Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT > Wow! What an interesting observation! I too have horses and just > recently bought a new one just so I could dress her and myself up! My > other horses are all Quarter horses, and they just don't suit my costuming > tastes. I had a side saddle made about 10 years ago for this purpose > also, but for Annettes reasons, have not gotten around to using if to my > cosutming ends. I would LOVE to have discussion with others of like mind. > Perhaps we could keep our costuming discussions on this list because there > are such good resources (and I myself love to read other's posts even if > they are outside my current focus.). What if we precededed each of our > equestrian posts with an EQ-as I have done, and create a Yahoo group for > all the other non-costume related discussions. (I'd love to shary horse > stories, pictures etc.) > > Yeah! > > Sg > Kahlara wrote: > >>Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem to >>have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as the >>shared interest in which we first became aquainted. >> I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and >> riding. I ride and own horses also. I also have made various articles of >> riding clothing and costumes for shows over the years (to keep it close >> to list topic). >> Although each individual is different, there seems to be a range of >> interests that most creative people share to one degree or another. For >> my part... >> horses, cats (or pets in general), costuming, reading, theatre, good >> movies, classical and traditional music, gardening, other artistically >> creative endeavors such as panting or some type of crafting, etc. And of >> course, the list always exceeds the amount of time available to pursue >> said interests. >> Just a little generalizing. ;-) >> Annette M >> >> --------------------------------- >>Brings words and photos together (easily) with >> PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 09:10:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CE9xhO010831 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:09:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CEA4Vi017455; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:10:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CE9hja021219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:09:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CE9gIY069232; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:09:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CE9ar8069114 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:09:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.57.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.57] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FIRGJ-00040l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:09:36 -0500 Message-ID: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:08:05 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: layers still: Ruff References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:10:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44142BBC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO otsisto wrote: > But from the picture, the inner "heart" piece looks to be of a lighter > weight then the surrounding loop which is why I believe that it is 3 layers > and not two. I'm trying to picture how this could work with three layers. The innermost layer of any loop is always the outermost layer of the next loop. Are you picturing two lighter weight layers with a heavier layer in between? As far as extra fullness in some layers and not others, I can't see how it could work. If you had two lightweight layers with a heavier one between, and both lightweight layers had more fullness than the heavier layer, you'd end up with too much on the outside of every loop. Try your method in paper and see if it works. I think the lightweight vs. heavier layers in the painting may be an illlusion and that Occam's Razor is our friend here. Cheers, Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 09:41:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CEfYrq011881 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:41:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CEfcwo025909; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:41:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CEfGhS027030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:41:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CEfDjU093720; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:41:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CEf92S093642 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:41:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m203.in-tch.com [216.166.191.203]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2CEWEA29418 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:32:14 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanishpatterns Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:48:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:41:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44143322.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It sure doesn't show up in my book on Anguissola. There are a couple of portraits of women in black, but neither is one of the Infantas (assuming you're referring to the daughters of Philip and Isabel...there don't seem to be any in my book at all of Philip and Anne's children). In addition, there are several portraits of the two Infantas, but none of them have any attribute of being a "mourning" outfit. In the portraits of the girls when younger, they're wearing a dark, brocaded fabric. In older portraits, they're wearing mostly black, but so it virtually every other adult from the Spanish court. Could the exhibit have been making an incorrect assumption about the use of black in the portraits? Their mother died when they were very young (toddler & infant)..... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "monica spence" To: "Historical Costume" Cc: "Laurel" ; "Maunche" Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 7:05 PM Subject: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanishpatterns > Speaking of late Spanish personas... > > About 10 years ago there was a Sofanisba Anguisola(sp) exhibit down at the > Museum of Women in the Arts in Washington DC. There was a rather large > painting of an Infanta (Spanish princess) who was the daughter of Philip II. > She was wearing mourning for her mother and was in all black-- including her > jewelry. Has anyone else ever seen this? It is supposed to be ion the Prado, > but I have never seen it reproduced anywhere. If you know where I can find > this, please let me know! Thanks. > Monica Spence > (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 10:06:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CF6smY012921 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:06:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CF6pPB032120; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:07:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CF5dtv030260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:05:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CF5W8j015723; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:05:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CF5Sw8015588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:05:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FIS8K-0002la-Ij; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:05:24 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:05:24 -0500 Message-ID: <20060312100524.pd5goei2qjsokc4k@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:05:24 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanishpatterns References: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:07:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414390B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Sue Clemenger : > It sure doesn't show up in my book on Anguissola. There are a couple of > portraits of women in black, but neither is one of the Infantas (assuming > you're referring to the daughters of Philip and Isabel...there don't seem to > be any in my book at all of Philip and Anne's children). In addition, there > are several portraits of the two Infantas, but none of them have any > attribute of being a "mourning" outfit. In the portraits of the girls when > younger, they're wearing a dark, brocaded fabric. In older portraits, > they're wearing mostly black, but so it virtually every other adult from the > Spanish court. I have to say this is the first time I'd ever seen this one http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_01a.jpg I *really* want to know how to search that web site! (Are you looking at the Perlingeri book? I love that book -- I want a copy!) Susan (ska Jerusha) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 10:26:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CFQCVw013697 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:26:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CFQH58004365; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:26:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CFPqTP033508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:25:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CFPpew034089; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:25:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CFPl1l034051 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:25:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m203.in-tch.com [216.166.191.203]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2CFGvA07080 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:16:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <002501c645ea$3fcb7500$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> <20060312100524.pd5goei2qjsokc4k@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:33:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:26:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44143D99.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Perlingeri it is! I lucked into getting one 12 or 13 years ago at an SCA event (Estrella War) At the time, I was heavily into late 16th century clothing, so finding it was like finding "the god book," especially since it was some time before QEUnlocked came out. And Anguissola being a woman made the whole thing that much sweeter. My oldest cat is named "Sofi," after the artist, but I've given up trying to explain it to non-Ren geeks ;o) (Kitty in question is striped, with a white smudge of "paint" on her nose). I *still* would like to make every dress in that book! I love the variety of Spanish and Italian styles, and the paintings as portraits--it's fascinating to look and see real people, if that makes sense. I'm not an art historian, so some of the finer points of the way this hand was painted, or particular attributions of color choices, etc. escape me entirely, but it's a wonderful book for the biography and the paintings, even so! --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:05 AM Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns > Quoting Sue Clemenger : > > > It sure doesn't show up in my book on Anguissola. There are a couple of > > portraits of women in black, but neither is one of the Infantas (assuming > > you're referring to the daughters of Philip and Isabel...there don't seem to > > be any in my book at all of Philip and Anne's children). In addition, there > > are several portraits of the two Infantas, but none of them have any > > attribute of being a "mourning" outfit. In the portraits of the girls when > > younger, they're wearing a dark, brocaded fabric. In older portraits, > > they're wearing mostly black, but so it virtually every other adult from the > > Spanish court. > > I have to say this is the first time I'd ever seen this one > http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_01a.jpg > > I *really* want to know how to search that web site! > > (Are you looking at the Perlingeri book? I love that book -- I want a > copy!) > > Susan (ska Jerusha) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 10:37:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CFbpVB014070 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:37:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CFbuGE007590; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:37:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CFbS8e034691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:37:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CFbQta042440; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:37:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CFbNQW042324 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:37:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.22e.7f44323 (15874) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:37:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID71-3e02441440243ce; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:37:08 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <1ee42e1489228f186c316a6744b0ee15@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: EQ-Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:37:06 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:37:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44144054.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2CFbpVB014070 Status: RO I am also interested in other people's areas of interest in costumes, if only because the people on this list are so knowledgeable and willing to share. I'm sure that I will NEVER attain the fabric related skills of many people on this list, but it is so much fun to see what others have accomplished. Brightens up my day with these beautiful things Sg- what type of horse did you buy and what type of costuming are you looking to reproduce? I would also like to share horse stories with you folks. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 12, 2006, at 8:50 AM, WickedFrau wrote: > Wow! What an interesting observation! I too have horses and just > recently bought a new one just so I could dress her and myself up! My > other horses are all Quarter horses, and they just don't suit my > costuming tastes. I had a side saddle made about 10 years ago for > this purpose also, but for Annettes reasons, have not gotten around to > using if to my cosutming ends. I would LOVE to have discussion with > others of like mind. Perhaps we could keep our costuming discussions > on this list because there are such good resources (and I myself love > to read other's posts even if they are outside my current focus.). > What if we precededed each of our equestrian posts with an EQ-as I > have done, and create a Yahoo group for all the other non-costume > related discussions. (I'd love to shary horse stories, pictures etc.) > > Yeah! > > Sg > Kahlara wrote: > >> Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations >> seem to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as >> well as the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. >> I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and >> riding. I ride and own horses also. I also have made various articles >> of riding clothing and costumes for shows over the years (to keep it >> close to list topic). >> Although each individual is different, there seems to be a range >> of interests that most creative people share to one degree or >> another. For my part... >> horses, cats (or pets in general), costuming, reading, theatre, >> good movies, classical and traditional music, gardening, other >> artistically creative endeavors such as panting or some type of >> crafting, etc. And of course, the list always exceeds the amount of >> time available to pursue said interests. >> Just a little generalizing. ;-) >> Annette M >> >> --------------------------------- >> Brings words and photos together (easily) with >> PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 11:37:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CGb12H016202 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:37:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CGb0VF023641; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:37:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CGaGCl043265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:36:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CGa9X6089891; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:36:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CGa6Zs089789 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:36:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([70.48.167.61]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with SMTP id <20060312163600.PCED29039.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:36:00 -0500 Message-ID: <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:30:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ruff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:37:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44144E2C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into my brain, so here's a possibly silly question: is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you sew it together? Sheridan P. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 12:24:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHOGSo017848 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:24:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHOLRZ004228; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:24:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CHNtFk049058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:23:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHNrAg025479; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:23:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHNn7b025414 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:23:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.57.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.57] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FIUIG-0001U4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:23:49 -0500 Message-ID: <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:22:38 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:24:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44145945.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Shane & Sheridan wrote: > It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into my > brain, so here's a possibly silly question: > > is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you sew > it together? After. If you want the lovely figure-eights to work out right, just sew a very tightly gathered band of fabric to the top of your neckband. Then soak it in liquid starch and proceed from there. Full instructions of how I do mine are on my website at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html The thing is, every time you wash it, the starch all comes out. So you don't want to have to take it all apart every time you have to wash and re-starch. And you will want to wash it--they sit right next to the neck and are prey to "ring around the ruff." Happy starching, Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 12:28:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHSvm8018034 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:28:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHT2gA005354; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:29:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CHSfgO049439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:28:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHSePe028802; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:28:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHSV50028702 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:28:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:28:25 -0800 Message-ID: <44145A45.50401@msn.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:28:37 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2006 17:28:25.0410 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E5F9220:01C645FA] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Naked Children in the Grass-OT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:29:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44145A5E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO As you will be able to quickly tell, the only thing costume related about this dish is it's name....of course, there too, there is something lacking. This is an old Dutch recipe of lima & green beans. I just think the name is hilarious, and was wondering if any of you might know how far back it goes?? I know I first heard of it back in the 70's.... And for those of you wondering, it is actually very good. I am not what you would call a Lima bean fan...and I could it bowls of this. Feel free to respond off list if you feel the topic is too off! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 12:46:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHkTau018681 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:46:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHkWK1010391; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:46:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CHjUHH051215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:45:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHjS62041222; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:45:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp08.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHjOLp041110 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:45:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:45:19 -0800 Message-ID: <44145E3B.8090703@msn.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:45:31 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1ee42e1489228f186c316a6744b0ee15@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1ee42e1489228f186c316a6744b0ee15@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2006 17:45:19.0426 (UTC) FILETIME=[BAC62220:01C645FC] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: EQ-Naggers and Clothes-was Equestrian costumers.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:46:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44145E78.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO My mare is an Andalusian/Arab cross and I am about ready to breed her to a full Andalusian. I am not able to afford the current pure "Andy" breed, this is the closest I will be able to come. My dream is to be able to make many different costumes to ride her with. (I want an orange/black [which looks brown] shot taffeta Victorian, side-saddle habit for sure). My girlfriend has offered to help me make a complete hand Inkled tubular breast collar crupper, etc. for a more "Arabick-y" style. I have fiddled with caprisons, making a "chair" sidesaddle etc. I am all over the place in time and country in my dreams...check this site out...http://www.kreml.ru/en/main/collection/museum/harness/. (For the non-nagger costumer, there are some very cool "regular" costumes too.) The closest I have come to riding in costume is at some local SCA events in a linen tunic, schooling tights, and a pair of Ariat Heritage packers! Pretty sad considering my collection of fabrics and ideas. Love this thread...p.s. I am in the middle of cooking a large historic meal today...but will post pictures of my naggers later....They are on my webpage somewhere already, but I can't find them! Sg Susan Data-Samtak wrote: > I am also interested in other people's areas of interest in costumes, > if only because the people on this list are so knowledgeable and > willing to share. I'm sure that I will NEVER attain the fabric > related skills of many people on this list, but it is so much fun to > see what others have accomplished. Brightens up my day with these > beautiful things > > Sg- what type of horse did you buy and what type of costuming are you > looking to reproduce? > > I would also like to share horse stories with you folks. > > Susan > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 12:57:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHvsRM019146 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:57:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHvxEw013333; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:58:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CHvVXm052649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:57:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHvTj9050255; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:57:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHvQ4u050206 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:57:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13280 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:28:57 -0600 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:28:56 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001101c645dc$8e252b00$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:58:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44146127.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Sun, 12 Mar 2006, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Yes in the end all you australian and american, would all be european > origin. Well, um, no, not really. 200 years ago, almost true in the US (but there were still Native Americans and some Africans). Now add the East Asian, South Asian, Middle Eastern, South American, Pacific Islander, etc. and the US population is well on its way to being majority non-European -- can't remember the last time I heard a demographic prediction of what year that would occur, but it's not far off. Of course every such prediction makes sense only on paper, because in reality intermarrying gives a lot of people here part-European part-other ancestry. Getting this back to costume: This came up on the list a few years ago, when we were discussing the typical facial characteristics associated with particular European historical populations, and how historic costumes/headdress styles generally developed to flatter the dominant facial "look" of the local population (e.g. Italian, Germanic, Russian, Flemish) -- something especially true for Medieval and Renaissance periods when regional populations were mostly homogeneous. In the US, there is no dominant "look," and indeed many people here do not have features that can be uniformly compared to any one particular historic population because most of us have a mix -- even if it's a mix of various European heritages. As someone pointed out at that time, the difference is noticeable when you look at a group portrait of a European re-enactment group, when pretty much everyone in the picture is from the same general gene pool, and it's close to the same gene pool as the population they're re-enacting. Then compare that with an American re-enactment group; even if everyone's dressed to the same place/period, their faces show a huge variety of features, colors, etc. It's something I've found that the Europeans take for granted because they're used to looking at the same general type of faces every day. Yes, this is changing in much of Europe now, particularly in the larger cities, but genetically the mixing is way behind what we see in the States, and it takes a few generations to get a mix significant enough to affect the overall visual look of a group. Often in a specific locally based European re-enactment group you can pick out a couple of outliers -- in the American groups all the faces are different from all the others. It is my costuming bane that I have a face that is Middle Eastern filtered through Russian, which means I look best in Italian, ethnic Greek, and of course Russian costume ... none of which I am remotely interested in. No, I had to get interested in Franco-Flemish, me with the tiny forehead and heavy dark brows and pointy chin... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 13:59:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CIx3Lg021222 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:59:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CIx83q029144; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:59:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CIwc9f059974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:58:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CIwXqv095278; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:58:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CIwTkU095241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:58:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-16.sonic.net [209.148.114.16]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2CIwPh4019042 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:58:28 -0800 Message-ID: <44146F52.8000109@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:58:26 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> <003501c645d7$6b1596e0$955083d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <003501c645d7$6b1596e0$955083d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:59:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44146F7C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO There are hundreds and hundreds of fancy (and not so fancy) vintage and antique tablecloths, towels, tea towels, bedspreads, handkerchiefs, and linens of all sorts on eBay. Embroidered, printed, crocheted, tatted, fringed, woven, plaid, striped, plain, and everything you can think of. You can buy them individually or as part of a big lot, and in conditions ranging from perfect to awful. I was buying embroidered tablecloths to make into skirts for awhile, at great prices, but after buying eight or so within a few days I gave up browsing the textiles. There were just too many. But if you look under Collectibles/Linens, Fabric and Textiles or Antiques, Textiles and Linens (the latter are generally pricier items), you'll never have to spend hours at a flea market again--just in front of your computer. I had the sense to do a search on "tea towels," after I posted. Irish Linen tea towels appear to have been popular since the early 1970s, judging by the fact that some are dated (because they're printed with calendars for the year). There are scads on eBay, though most are printed with very tacky designs. I didn't find any William Morris ones (even though I've just worn out four in my kitchen, bought from museum catalogs at different times). If anyone is interested, many of the towels are listed on eBay for about $5, and they are very effective as hand and dish towels. I got three printed with Book of Kells designs which are a bit bright for my taste, but that will fade as they get beat up and washed every week (the reason why I passed up all the vintage embroidered ones listed--we use the towels heavily). Also one printed with a picture of the Louvre (tea towels seem to be popular tourist items). Then someone on h-costume, whose message I accidentally deleted, kindly sent me a link to the online store of the Country Dance and Song Society, where you can buy the Book of Kells towels: http://www.cdss.org/sales/holiday.html But if anyone knows anywhere in the US to get more William Morris tea towels (I did find some places in England), please let me know. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Fran, the only time I have seen any that might be as you describe is at > antique flea markets...such as Brimfield in Ma. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 14:06:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJ6CKj021454 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:06:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJ6H7E031384; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:06:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CJ5uuk060824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:05:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJ5tsu000889; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:05:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJ5o3E000770 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:05:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.232.876aa4a (39953) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:05:39 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:05:38 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:06:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44147129.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Lovely site, Melanie. Your costumes are all wonderful. [Hey...why skip the 18th century?] Your ruff instructions are great too. I especially like your use of items just about anybody can get a hold of! Have you seen Jean Honnisette's ruff instructions? She "starches" and does the 8's BEFORE gathering to the neck band. But of course in the period, this seems unlikely. It makes more sense to me to start with a gathered ruffle and then manipulate it. How did you determine how much yardage to use in the ruff? More would make bigger 8's, no? Would you need a goffering iron with a larger diameter? Why did you attach the 2nd ruff to the neck of the shirt? If I were you, I take the ruff and neckband off the shirt, put a new band on the shirt and just baste them together to wear. That way washing is easier, fixing the ruff is easier, and you can wear the ruff elsewhere...and the shirt w/out a ruff. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 14:31:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJVQVt022384 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:31:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJVVwC006029; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:31:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CJVC8f063359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:31:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJVAml018983; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:31:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJV6il018899 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:31:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CC46B47FE41 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:31:04 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c6460b$8e5927f0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:31:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] starching ruffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:31:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44147713.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I made one of those big mill stone ruffs years back, but that was before i had the pleassure of being educated by all the knolledged people on this list. I cut it in the theater cut, with large cirkles with a hole in the middle for the neck. I sewed together all the cirkles 6 in all first, and then i starched it ironed it before i started to form the eights by hand and attatched all the pleats bit by bit. It was a very difficult job and i had a chair where the ruff rested while i made it. It was the kind of ruff you se in the portraits by Rubens and Frans Hals. But now we know that even these large ones was made by yardage of fabric, and not cirkles :-( And even worse, it collapsed few weeks later while exhibited in a cold damp room of an old manor house. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 14:35:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJZebJ022555 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:35:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJZiVe007223; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:35:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CJZNRf063849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:35:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJZN4s022008; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:35:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-dav10.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJZIkw021931 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:35:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:35:14 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.245.210 by BAY107-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:35:14 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.245.210] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:35:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2006 19:35:14.0944 (UTC) FILETIME=[16025000:01C6460C] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:35:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44147811.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I personally like to starch after it's constructed, then the starch doesn't break down when being handled and I can shape the ruff the way I like. Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ruff > It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into > my > brain, so here's a possibly silly question: > > is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you > sew > it together? > > Sheridan P. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 14:50:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJoF1R023230 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:50:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJoJJI011480; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:50:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CJnqtY065461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:49:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJnoHc032557; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:49:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao01.cox.net (eastrmmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJnkej032477 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:49:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.160.220.19]) by eastrmmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20060312194940.RHXW4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:40 -0500 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] starching ruffs Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-reply-to: <000f01c6460b$8e5927f0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Thread-Index: AcZGDAQp7uAvLeLMS6uFPJWWNZELvwAAeYcQ Message-Id: <20060312194940.RHXW4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:50:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44147B7C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >And even worse, it collapsed few weeks later while exhibited in a cold damp >room of an old manor house. What a shame. All that work for naught. Did you get a picture before it "melted"? Anne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 3/10/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 15:13:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CKDtwY024194 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:13:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CKE0jK018459; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:14:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CKDc3W067726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:13:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKDZcv050624; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:13:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKDWN4050498 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:13:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IW100GTX6UAQJY3@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:13:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:13:20 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns In-reply-to: <20060312100524.pd5goei2qjsokc4k@www.goldsword.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:14:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44148108.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thanks ! This is it! Best Regards- Monica PS-- Where did you find this??? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Susan B. Farmer Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:05 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns Quoting Sue Clemenger : > It sure doesn't show up in my book on Anguissola. There are a couple of > portraits of women in black, but neither is one of the Infantas (assuming > you're referring to the daughters of Philip and Isabel...there don't seem to > be any in my book at all of Philip and Anne's children). In addition, there > are several portraits of the two Infantas, but none of them have any > attribute of being a "mourning" outfit. In the portraits of the girls when > younger, they're wearing a dark, brocaded fabric. In older portraits, > they're wearing mostly black, but so it virtually every other adult from the > Spanish court. I have to say this is the first time I'd ever seen this one http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_01a.jpg I *really* want to know how to search that web site! (Are you looking at the Perlingeri book? I love that book -- I want a copy!) Susan (ska Jerusha) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 15:17:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CKH4QI024328 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:17:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CKHANk019326; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:17:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CKGtaC068080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:16:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKGtq2053131; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:16:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKGmic053044 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:16:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 72B4147FE09 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:16:39 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <006a01c64611$f01f0170$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060312194940.RHXW4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Subject: Re: [h-cost] starching ruffs Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:17:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:17:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441481C6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Anne, Yes i did, but only a small paper photo, i tryed to make it better and bigger on a computer, with not a good result. I made it to be worn with a purple dupioni silk wheelfarthingale dress i had made with a lot of pearl embroidery on the sleaves and stomacher. Its only to laugh at today, dupioni for a renaissance dress, but the museum was poor and could not spend money on this. I received my Tonner Doll and i want to make it an embroidered wheelfarthingal dress, after the portrait of Queen Anne of Denmark at the Greenwich Museum. Just have to find the right colour for the dress. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:49 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] starching ruffs > > > >>And even worse, it collapsed few weeks later while exhibited in a cold >>damp > >>room of an old manor house. > > What a shame. All that work for naught. Did you get a picture before it > "melted"? > Anne > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 3/10/2006 > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 15:26:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CKQaSb024691 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:26:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CKQf5t022167; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:26:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CKQLuV068920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:26:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKQJ2A059843; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:26:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKQFwg059728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:26:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-16.sonic.net [209.148.114.16]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2CKQ3iv032623; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:26:04 -0800 Message-ID: <441483DD.4010003@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:26:05 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, vintage@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] SF Vintage Fashion Expo X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:26:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44148401.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO BTW, for those in the San Francisco area (or willing to travel, as some people do), the spring San Francisco Vintage Fashion Expo is being held on March 18 and 19. Details on: http://www.vintagefashionexpo.com/ve.htm Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 16:16:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGDw0026426 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGIDY003912; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLF7kb079408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLF3PV099561; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CFYr7Z040662 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:34:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@NETSCAPE.COM) Received: from dm30.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232E1400BC for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:34:53 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm30 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060312073453.E2142B0E@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:34:53 -0800 (PST) From: " Lalah" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Source for aesthetic style silk X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nREFD+dpYmKMgEAAAAB,5b18ec34c934760d7f1aedfbbcae87e0 X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.117.9] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44148FA2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO That is cruel! There is a William Morris fabric in that lot that would be perfect for my bedroom drapes. I only need twenty yards and it only runs $110.00 a yard. Now if I ever win the lottery I know where to look for my fabric. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- alderweb@vaxxine.com wrote: From: david webb To: Historical Costume Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Source for aesthetic style silk Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:25:59 -0500 Greetings: At $345 Canadian a yard - not even in metres! I'm glad I'm not interested in doing anything in the aesthetic style, but it shure nuff is purty! "This rich silk fabric is based on an original made in England in the 1880's. The document (original) colour is in a Robin's Egg blue on Cream, but it is offered in six other colours as well." http://www.charlesrupert.com/traditional/1880to1900/aestheticsilk.html This company has a wide variety of reproduction wallpapers and textiles too. Sheridan Alder _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 16:16:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGDTJ026425 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGICQ007730; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLFkHu079494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLFjMU000313; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.eastlink.ca (smtpout.eastlink.ca [24.222.0.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CGlfEB098943 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:47:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sjpaterson@tru.eastlink.ca) Received: from ip02.eastlink.ca ([24.222.10.10]) by mta01.eastlink.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IW000H7CX97ZN40@mta01.eastlink.ca> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:46:19 -0400 (AST) Received: from blk-137-68-3.eastlink.ca (HELO THIRDFLOOR) ([24.137.68.3]) by ip02.eastlink.ca with SMTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:47:28 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:47:25 -0400 From: SPaterson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff To: Historical Costume Message-id: <003201c645f4$a4d2c110$04000100@THIRDFLOOR> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAA+k= References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44148FA2.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO IMNTBHO, before Sarah P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ruff > It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into > my > brain, so here's a possibly silly question: > > is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you > sew > it together? > > Sheridan P. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 16:16:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGEQP026427 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGJf3016996; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLFoQL079512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLFohO000375; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHlbdn042805 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:47:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:47:32 -0800 Message-ID: <44145EC1.2000607@msn.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:47:45 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> In-Reply-To: <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2006 17:47:32.0464 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A121F00:01C645FD] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44148FA3.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO One of my ruffs is made from silk organza, and lace, it was pretty stiff before I starched it. It is actually easier to work with IMHO than something soft and flimsy.... Having done it both ways I prefer something with substance. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 16:16:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGGqV026429 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGLaa006074; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLFtRo079571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLFtHA000443; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2CHxO5F051596 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:59:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 44391 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2006 17:59:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.16.116 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2006 17:59:19 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060312175549.01df7d70@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:59:18 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff In-Reply-To: <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44148FA5.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 18:22 12/03/2006, you wrote: >Shane & Sheridan wrote: >>It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into my >>brain, so here's a possibly silly question: >>is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you sew >>it together? > >After. If you want the lovely figure-eights to work out right, just >sew a very tightly gathered band of fabric to the top of your >neckband. Then soak it in liquid starch and proceed from >there. Full instructions of how I do mine are on my website at > >http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html > >The thing is, every time you wash it, the starch all comes out. So >you don't want to have to take it all apart every time you have to >wash and re-starch. And you will want to wash it--they sit right >next to the neck and are prey to "ring around the ruff." If you use straw stiffener (millinery supplies) you stiffen it first, then form the eights and glue or sew them (glueing "is" authentic, or rather sticking with gum arabic IIRC). You don't wash, but clean with water, and re-stiffen with steam every time it goes limp. Useful for theatre, where you haven't time to do every ruff every time. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 16:20:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLKeAt026608 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:20:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLKj12005254; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:20:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLHNfB079811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:17:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLHNIm001696; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:17:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKNaCS057809 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:23:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IW100GGH7B6EO26@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:23:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:23:28 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns In-reply-to: <004401c64581$ef07c780$0401010a@michaela> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:20:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441490AD.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thank you so much! Your website is amazing!!! Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of michaela Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 10:06 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns > About 10 years ago there was a Sofanisba Anguisola(sp) exhibit down at the > Museum of Women in the Arts in Washington DC. There was a rather large > painting of an Infanta (Spanish princess) who was the daughter of Philip II. > She was wearing mourning for her mother and was in all black-- including her > jewelry. Has anyone else ever seen this? It is supposed to be ion the Prado, > but I have never seen it reproduced anywhere. If you know where I can find > this, please let me know! Thanks. Let me know if its one of the paintings here: http://sayaespanola.glittersweet.com Otherwise I have a few books at the local fine arts library I can have a hunt trhough and see if there is similar painting. I have a few more portraits I haven't uploaded/linked to in my site so it may be I have it on file and not on the web. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 16:49:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLnbeP027673 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:49:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLngtU013687; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:49:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLnNjQ084675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLnLtT025413; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xrelay03.mail2web.com (xrelay03.mail2web.com [168.144.1.54]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLnIR9025313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gwen@moonsandstars.com) Received: from [168.144.251.158] (helo=M2W051.mail2web.com) by xrelay03.mail2web.com with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1FIYR3-0007td-9I for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:49:13 -0500 Message-ID: <380-22006301221499159@M2W051.mail2web.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Originating-IP: 24.226.19.4 X-URL: http://mail2web.com/ From: "gwen@moonsandstars.com" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:49:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2CLnIR9025313 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: ruff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:49:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44149776.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have made several ruffs using both before and after starching methods. I find if I prep the fabric by starching it and ironing it first, I get a much better result when I start the pleating. Its a method I read about in Jean Hunniset's Stage to screen. While I am not a scholar on the subject, I have done some prelim research on it. http://thevilla.sccspirit.com/sisters/gwen_projects.htm Gwenhwyfar Message: 4 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:30:41 -0500 From: "Shane & Sheridan" Subject: [h-cost] Ruff To: "Historical Costume" Message-ID: <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into my brain, so here's a possibly silly question: is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you sew it together? Sheridan P. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:47:25 -0400 From: SPaterson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <003201c645f4$a4d2c110$04000100@THIRDFLOOR> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original IMNTBHO, before Sarah P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ruff > It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into > my > brain, so here's a possibly silly question: > > is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you > sew > it together? > > Sheridan P. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:22:38 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Shane & Sheridan wrote: > It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into my > brain, so here's a possibly silly question: > > is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you sew > it together? After. If you want the lovely figure-eights to work out right, just sew a very tightly gathered band of fabric to the top of your neckband. Then soak it in liquid starch and proceed from there. Full instructions of how I do mine are on my website at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html The thing is, every time you wash it, the starch all comes out. So you don't want to have to take it all apart every time you have to wash and re-starch. And you will want to wash it--they sit right next to the neck and are prey to "ring around the ruff." Happy starching, Melanie Schuessler Message: 9 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:47:45 -0700 From: WickedFrau Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff To: Historical Costume Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed One of my ruffs is made from silk organza, and lace, it was pretty stiff before I starched it. It is actually easier to work with IMHO than something soft and flimsy.... Having done it both ways I prefer something with substance. Sg Message: 11 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:59:18 +0000 From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060312175549.01df7d70@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed If you use straw stiffener (millinery supplies) you stiffen it first, then form the eights and glue or sew them (glueing "is" authentic, or rather sticking with gum arabic IIRC). You don't wash, but clean with water, and re-stiffen with steam every time it goes limp. Useful for theatre, where you haven't time to do every ruff every time. Suzi -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 18:41:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CNfLxf032323 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:41:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CNfPXx011516; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:41:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CNex0i000707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:40:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CNepNf010851; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:40:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CNelir010729 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:40:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.124]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060312234041.HCNA27467.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:40:41 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060312164908.02663de0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:40:36 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Anguissola X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:41:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414B1A5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I also have a copy of Sofonisba Anguissola - First Great women Artist of the Renaissance which is the English translation of: Sofonisba Anguissola - Femme Peintre de La Renaissance by Ilya Sandra Perlingieri Liana Levi Editeur, Paris (1992) pp.223, ills.. Has anyone seen the one by Flavio Caroli. Published in Milan,1987. Hardcover (Italian) Pp. 255. With catalogue of 42 works and reproductions. List of 24 attributed works also reproduced. List of works mentioned in historical sources; or the large monograph: SOFONISBA ANGUISSOLA E LE SUE SORELLE by GREGORI, M. (e altri) Corsico 1994. Bross., cm 28x24, pp 437, numer. ill. a colori e b/n Thanks, Beth Matney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 19:06:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D05soA000781 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:05:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D05xsR018575; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:06:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D05ZlA004585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:05:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D05YP9028509; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:05:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D05ViA028466 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:05:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A62AE9D0274; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:00:42 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ruff Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:05:32 -0800 Message-ID: <000601c64631$d8b5c210$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:06:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414B768.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO If you put an extra layer on the inside of the ruff neckband, you can take that off to wash and sew on again more easily. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Schuessler Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:23 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff Shane & Sheridan wrote: > It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way > into my brain, so here's a possibly silly question: > > is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* > you sew it together? After. If you want the lovely figure-eights to work out right, just sew a very tightly gathered band of fabric to the top of your neckband. Then soak it in liquid starch and proceed from there. Full instructions of how I do mine are on my website at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html The thing is, every time you wash it, the starch all comes out. So you don't want to have to take it all apart every time you have to wash and re-starch. And you will want to wash it--they sit right next to the neck and are prey to "ring around the ruff." Happy starching, Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 19:57:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D0vH5D002556 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:57:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D0vMon032517; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:57:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D0uvsO010072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:56:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D0utLZ062513; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:56:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D0uobk062400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:56:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FIbMf-0005V3-4w; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:56:49 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:56:49 -0500 Message-ID: <20060312195649.gr0damhcfkgw0coo@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:56:49 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns References: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> <20060312100524.pd5goei2qjsokc4k@www.goldsword.com> <002501c645ea$3fcb7500$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <002501c645ea$3fcb7500$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:57:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414C372.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Sue Clemenger : > Perlingeri it is! I lucked into getting one 12 or 13 years ago at an > SCA event (Estrella War) At the time, I was heavily into late 16th century > clothing, so finding it was like finding "the god book," especially since it > was some time before QEUnlocked came out. And Anguissola being a woman > made the whole thing that much sweeter. Lucky you! It's on my Amazon Wish List ... and I get to keep the Libraries copy until I graduate! :-D My other Favorite Artist Book is the one on Lavinia Fontana by Murphy. > My oldest cat is named "Sofi," after the artist, but I've given up trying to > explain it to non-Ren geeks ;o) (Kitty in question is striped, with a white > smudge of "paint" on her nose). If I hadn't been Jerusha for so many years, I would have been so tempted to choose either Sofonisba or Artemesia for a name. > I *still* would like to make every dress in that book! I love the variety > of Spanish and Italian styles, and the paintings as portraits--it's > fascinating to look and see real people, if that makes sense. I'm not an > art historian, so some of the finer points of the way this hand was painted, > or particular attributions of color choices, etc. escape me entirely, but > it's a wonderful book for the biography and the paintings, even so! Oh, yeah. Have you seen the "new" book on Eleanor of Toledo (Moda a Firenze)? More gorgeous paintings -- most of which I had *never* seen before! Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 20:28:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1S8D9003655 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:28:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1SD1M008667; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:28:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D1RpHO013542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:27:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1Rnxk083606; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:27:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1RkJ9083498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:27:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FIbqc-0005Vg-NW; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:27:46 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:27:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20060312202746.e5e4z7cex3c4cocw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:27:46 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anguissola References: <6.0.0.22.0.20060312164908.02663de0@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20060312164908.02663de0@mail.alltel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:28:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414CAAD.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Beth and Bob Matney : > I also have a copy of Sofonisba Anguissola - First Great women Artist > of the Renaissance which is the English translation of: > Sofonisba Anguissola - Femme Peintre de La Renaissance by Ilya Sandra > Perlingieri Liana Levi Editeur, Paris (1992) pp.223, ills.. > > Has anyone seen the one by Flavio Caroli. Published in Milan,1987. > Hardcover (Italian) Pp. 255. With catalogue of 42 works and > reproductions. List of 24 attributed works also reproduced. List of > works mentioned in historical sources; > > or the large monograph: SOFONISBA ANGUISSOLA E LE SUE SORELLE by > GREGORI, M. (e altri) Corsico 1994. Bross., cm 28x24, pp 437, numer. > ill. a colori e b/n OOh, no. Never seen the other two! Jerusha (adding them to my list!) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 20:33:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1XeNG003863 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:33:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1XjwA010321; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:33:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D1XHnP014346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:33:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1XGk3087399; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:33:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1XCHp087352 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:33:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m163.in-tch.com [216.166.191.163]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2D1OLA25144 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:24:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <001101c6463f$1a9b30e0$a3bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:40:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:33:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414CBF9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO You looked very "Eastern European/Jewish" to me when I met you a few years ago--think it's your darkish coloring, and all that hair, of which I'm *still* jealous. Although not of Scandinavian extraction in the *least,* I did grow up in an area settled by a lot of Norwegians, and my family (of generally British Isles extraction ranging from 1 to 4 centuries in the US) did NOT look like my neighbors, who tended to be tall, very blonde, and with that fair skin blondes get. With me, it was even more noticeable than the rest of the family, as I seem to have reverted to some odd combination of recessives (very fair skin with a strong tendency to freckle and blush, blue eyes and dark hair). It wasn't until I went to Ireland a few years ago, that I actually saw a lot of people whom I resembled--it was both odd, and really cool, to see folks with the same kind of coloring, height, etc. I figure I'm just a genetic quirk combining various Irish ancestors (and perhaps the Scots side as well). A couple of friends in my local SCA group are half generic American and half Syrian, and the range of skin tones, hair color/type, and other facial features in the family is actually quite various. I've never figured out quite what ethnic type I would best suit, historical costuming-wise. My particular genetic pool wasn't much painted or portraited ;o). The closest I've come is some of those 16th c. Flemish marketwomen in the genre paintings. --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) > > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > Yes in the end all you australian and american, would all be european > > origin. > > Well, um, no, not really. 200 years ago, almost true in the US (but there > were still Native Americans and some Africans). Now add the East Asian, > South Asian, Middle Eastern, South American, Pacific Islander, etc. and > the US population is well on its way to being majority non-European -- > can't remember the last time I heard a demographic prediction of what year > that would occur, but it's not far off. > > Of course every such prediction makes sense only on paper, because in > reality intermarrying gives a lot of people here part-European part-other > ancestry. > > Getting this back to costume: This came up on the list a few years ago, > when we were discussing the typical facial characteristics associated with > particular European historical populations, and how historic > costumes/headdress styles generally developed to flatter the dominant > facial "look" of the local population (e.g. Italian, Germanic, Russian, > Flemish) -- something especially true for Medieval and Renaissance periods > when regional populations were mostly homogeneous. In the US, there is no > dominant "look," and indeed many people here do not have features that can > be uniformly compared to any one particular historic population because > most of us have a mix -- even if it's a mix of various European heritages. > > As someone pointed out at that time, the difference is noticeable when you > look at a group portrait of a European re-enactment group, when pretty > much everyone in the picture is from the same general gene pool, and it's > close to the same gene pool as the population they're re-enacting. Then > compare that with an American re-enactment group; even if everyone's > dressed to the same place/period, their faces show a huge variety of > features, colors, etc. It's something I've found that the Europeans take > for granted because they're used to looking at the same general type of > faces every day. > > Yes, this is changing in much of Europe now, particularly in the larger > cities, but genetically the mixing is way behind what we see in the > States, and it takes a few generations to get a mix significant enough to > affect the overall visual look of a group. Often in a specific locally > based European re-enactment group you can pick out a couple of outliers -- > in the American groups all the faces are different from all the others. > > It is my costuming bane that I have a face that is Middle Eastern filtered > through Russian, which means I look best in Italian, ethnic Greek, and of > course Russian costume ... none of which I am remotely interested in. No, > I had to get interested in Franco-Flemish, me with the tiny forehead and > heavy dark brows and pointy chin... > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 20:34:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1YuCo003928 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:34:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1Z15p009811; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:35:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D1YjiG014634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:34:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1YinD088520; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:34:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1YesG088389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:34:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FIbxI-00066v-9B; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:34:40 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:34:40 -0500 Message-ID: <20060312203440.umsbxr4ys968ssc4@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:34:40 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:35:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414CC45.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting monica spence : > Thanks ! This is it! > Best Regards- > Monica > > PS-- Where did you find this??? I think the link to this was on the glittersweet page. Basically, I did a Google Image Search for "Anguissola Infanta" and that was the only one that was all in black! I know that there's some gorgeous paintings of her on the bildindex site -- I just don't know how to find them! I've got a thumbnail page printed, but I can't get "back to that page." *sigh* Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 20:41:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1f8QN004170 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:41:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1fDfA012330; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:41:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D1ev7Q015486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1etKi092766; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:40:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1emcs092680 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:40:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m163.in-tch.com [216.166.191.163]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2D1VrA26586 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:31:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <003b01c64640$28775bc0$a3bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion><20060312100524.pd5goei2qjsokc4k@www.goldsword.com><002501c645ea$3fcb7500$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> <20060312195649.gr0damhcfkgw0coo@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16thCenturySpanishpatterns Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:47:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:41:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414CDB9.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I've seen it talked about, but not met in person, if you know what I mean. I'm on a lean-and-mean budget for a couple of months, but hope to buy it when things even out.... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:56 PM Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16thCenturySpanishpatterns > Oh, yeah. Have you seen the "new" book on Eleanor of Toledo (Moda a > Firenze)? More gorgeous paintings -- most of which I had *never* seen > before! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 21:21:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D2LnLb005733 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:21:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D2Lso7024150; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:21:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D2LHJR020584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:21:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D2LEhk019887; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:21:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts8.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D2LBiK019807 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:21:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.137.215]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with SMTP id <20060313022105.MFJT2202.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:21:05 -0500 Message-ID: <005701c64644$efe63600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:21:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Show and Tell: Take Two X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:21:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414D742.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO A while ago I had posted some photos of a couple of my (mostly) finished projects. I couldn't seem to get the site I was using to upload more than the two pictures. I'm trying out the Kodak site instead. (Someone had set up an album at Christmas time just for H-costume, where is that one again? It might be easier...) Sheridan P. > http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=6ru1o2u.m957jna&x=1&y=-x8qkr7 > > If you'd like to save this album, just sign in, or > if you're new to the Gallery, create a free account. > Once you've signed in, you'll be able to view this > album whenever you want and order Kodak prints of > your favorite photos. > > Enjoy! > > Instructions: Click view photos to begin. If you're > an existing member you'll be asked to sign > in. If not, you can join the Gallery for free. > http://www.kodakgallery.com/Register.jsp > > Questions? Visit http://help.kodakgallery.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 21:31:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D2Vs9V006069 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:31:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D2VxAP026687; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:32:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D2Vc5x021896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:31:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D2VbFD027183; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:31:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D2VXlX027055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:31:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FIcqL-0005EA-OB; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:31:33 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:31:33 -0500 Message-ID: <20060312213133.7m36ui2um1j4w8wc@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:31:33 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16thCenturySpanishpatterns References: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion><20060312100524.pd5goei2qjsokc4k@www.goldsword.com><002501c645ea$3fcb7500$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> <20060312195649.gr0damhcfkgw0coo@www.goldsword.com> <003b01c64640$28775bc0$a3bfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <003b01c64640$28775bc0$a3bfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:32:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414D99F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Sue Clemenger : > I've seen it talked about, but not met in person, if you know what I mean. > I'm on a lean-and-mean budget for a couple of months, but hope to buy it > when things even out.... I know *exactly* what you mean! The one copy that I've fondled to date I saw through InterLibrary Loan. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 22:33:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D3XvS5008303 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:33:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D3Y1WF010823; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:34:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D3XOlA027877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:33:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D3XL8k067434; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:33:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3b.socket.net [216.106.88.186]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D3XHi6067387 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:33:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C76C736BF0 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:33:16 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: layers still: Ruff Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:33:23 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:34:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414E829.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO -----Original Message----- <<>> *yes As far as extra fullness in some layers and not others, I can't see how it could work. If you had two lightweight layers with a heavier one between, and both lightweight layers had more fullness than the heavier layer, you'd end up with too much on the outside of every loop. Try your method in paper and see if it works. I think the lightweight vs. heavier layers in the painting may be an illusion and that Occam's Razor is our friend here. Cheers, Melanie *I'll try it when I get a chance. Mother nature seems to want my attention. Another hail and tornado storm headed my way.:P De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 23:05:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D45EiR009477 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:05:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D45JAk018671; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:05:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D44up1030650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:04:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D44ssU086790; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:04:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D44ofE086673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:04:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D5n2nc016267 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:49:02 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Show and Tell: Take Two Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:09:20 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <005701c64644$efe63600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> In-Reply-To: <005701c64644$efe63600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603122309.20854.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:05:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414EF7F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Sunday 12 March 2006 9:21 pm, Shane & Sheridan wrote: > A while ago I had posted some photos of a couple of my (mostly) finished > projects. I couldn't seem to get the site I was using to upload more than > the two pictures. I'm trying out the Kodak site instead. (Someone had set > up an album at Christmas time just for H-costume, where is that one again? > It might be easier...) It won't let you see anything until you sign up for a free account. -- Cathy Raymond "Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."--Richard Feynman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 00:10:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D5AiCQ011314 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:10:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D5AlVh002716; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:10:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D5AE7O037466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:10:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D5A9Q6028255; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:10:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D5A6E3028213 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:10:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18093 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:41:38 -0600 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:41:36 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) In-Reply-To: <001101c6463f$1a9b30e0$a3bfa6d8@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:10:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414FED7.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Sun, 12 Mar 2006, Sue Clemenger wrote: > You looked very "Eastern European/Jewish" to me when I met you a few > years ago--think it's your darkish coloring, and all that hair, of > which I'm *still* jealous. Partly because of the strong cultural tendency for marriage-within-the-faith, I'm 100% Russian Jewish (so figure some distant Middle Eastern roots way back somewhere). But I'm only second-generation American. My kids, another generation into the American mixing bowl, are half Ashkenazic, with the other half being mostly English with some French Canadian and who-knows-what mixed in. Two completely incompatible looks -- when you see my parents and my in-laws together, you can immediately see they're from different genetic pools. But I can see elements of both in my kids' facial features. I daresay there's no historic "look" that quite matches that! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 02:48:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D7m2V5025542 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:48:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D7m7f5011725; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:48:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D7ljFJ056331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:47:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D7lfkS039913; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:47:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D7lbQT039863 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:47:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 03F4036A86 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:47:36 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:47:43 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <001101c645dc$8e252b00$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2D7lbQT039863 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Spring OT was: Danish ancestors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:48:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441523B7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO -----Original Message----- <<>>> *Not quite. There are a those with indigenous family genes mixed in. :) <<>>> *For the past two day my state/USA has been going through it's version of the rites of Spring. Hail from pea size to softball size and today there was approximately 14 tornadoes and a few funnels. Luckily I'm fine but will be seeing the insurance people about a new windshield and if the new texturing on the hood, trunk and roof can be smoothed out Think 5 minutes downpour, nonstop and switch the drops with hail and you might get a picture of how much texturing is there. :P The most of the gutter screens are ripe to shreds. Had a plastic bucket outside, flipped over. It now has 2" holes in it. The outdoor lounge chairs covering is shredded. I have never seen hail this bad in my area. Tornadoes, yes but hail, no. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 03:24:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D8OAs4001615 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:24:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D8OFlV021232; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:24:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D8O3wf059307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:24:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D8O1lD064680; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:24:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D8NvGs064608 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:23:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA19664 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:55:31 -0600 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:55:29 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ... In-Reply-To: <20060218230127.te466b75uksoc0wg@www.goldsword.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:24:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44152C2F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I was just going through some stacked-up e-mail -- I tend to catch up in fits and spurts, so sometimes miss things. Plus I have dial-up, so anything that requires lots of image-heavy downloads gets set aside till I have *time*. Anyway, Susan posted lots of picture links. I haven't looked at all of them but of the ones I did see -- yes, as you indicated, lots of Flemish 15th-16th c. fantasy. I took so many pictures of these sorts of weird dresses in Belgium! In addition to the fact that they're all on religious/historic/symbolic figures, it's also useful to note that you rarely find two that are anywhere near alike, which makes it even more obvious that these aren't meant to represent fashionable wear! The "regular" clothing (on portraits, and in genre scenes) tends to be cast-of-a-mold with relatively small differences in features. Rule of thumb: The rarer it is, the less likely to be real. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/hitomi_gehrig/14th%20Century/Roncolo6.gif > > I thought that the dress has a front panel because of the white dots running > > down the "seam". > > I thought that they were buttons! The white dots are almost certainly buttons. I have no idea why she's all stripey, but from her headgear, I wouldn't lay bets that she's a real person, so I'd withhold judgement on this one without knowong the context. Of course, if she's Italian, there's no telling. Another rule of thumb: It's a bad idea to try to reproduce a costume from an artwork without knowing something about the artwork. > Virgin with Saints (Barbara & Catherine of Alexandria) > http://www.wga.hu/art/b/benson/lou_135.jpg Not too weird, these. Catherine's outfit pays lip service to the by-now-required surcote but still is an attempt to make her look within range of the accepted fashion. The Barbara is quite passable but very rich as befits the princess she is; the fur oversleeves might be over the top. Headdress is all symbolic on both. > and one of my personal favorites -- dig the pink "3 piece suit" on the > saint in the right panel > http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/2/05adorat.jpg I think that's meant to be a dress that's hitched up at the waist/hip and bloused over. Still dripping with fantasy/foreign elements. > Elijah & the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves > http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg I think she's pretty realistic. I've seen those sleeves elsewhere. I think I saw this one in person, or one much like it, and took pictures -- not for the sleeve, but for the fitting at the back waist. IIRC, there's a horizontal seam at the top of the pleats, but it sort of comes out of nowhere -- it doesn't go beyond the pleated area. I would have to find the slides to confirm that, though. This is not the only gown I saw that on; it's some sort of technique for fitting over the rump. I can think of two or three ways to do it. > again symbolic/allegrical, but you got 4 "normal" gowns and that odd > thing in the lower left > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/flemish_CharlesBold.jpg None of these women are "normal," though the one at the lower right looks realistic. The one on the throne is a rather straighforward queenly image plus a sword -- I think she's Justice. Oh yes, there it is above her head, the first word in the inscription. As for the four women upholding the coat-of-arms: See those words written on their skirts? Those are labels, so you know what characteristic or attribute they stand for. They are too dark to read as-is, but playing around in a photo editor, I think the upper left one might be "Veritas," and the lower left is sage-something. The lower right one is clear: Sobrietas, or Sobriety. Now we know why she has no fantastical elements to her dress! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 06:45:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DBjTIO015742 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:45:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DBjXvB009699; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:45:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DBj8US083523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 04:45:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DBj5IO098106; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 04:45:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DBiurN097943 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 04:45:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 86959 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2006 11:44:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.16.116 with login) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2006 11:44:50 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060313114056.01d789b0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:44:50 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Monogram alphabets "Regency" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:45:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44155B5D.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Anybody point me at a source for "Regency" alphabets for embroidering monograms on shirts? (I have a few from "La Belle Assemblee" but they are mostly later, and more suitable for ladies' handkerchiefs as they are rather fancy.) The date of the costume is actually 1808, so I know it is not technically Regency,. I could make one up as I go along, but it would be really good to have a source. (It might give me an excuse to use my new tambour equipment I bought in a rush after the new 18th century embroidery book turned up!!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 07:11:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DCBOdS022791 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:11:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DCBTLh017226; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:11:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DCAmMi085749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:10:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DCAjY7014319; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:10:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DCAbbS014190 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:10:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EA51D0005 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:13:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10820-04 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:13:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from Stuckis (ip21.77.78.64.suscom.net [64.78.77.21]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B2E71D0004 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:13:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01cc01c64697$20748130$154d4e40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:10:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:11:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44156172.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO But I can see elements of both in my > kids' facial features. I daresay there's no historic "look" that quite > matches that! > > --Robin I imagine you are right! My grandmother was half English, half Norwegian, and I look just like her--my hair is even turning the same beautiful silver hers did, instead of just gray--so, whatever look that combo produces is me, though in truth, I'm definitely a genetic mutt. I have just enough Native America filtered in from my mom's side to make me turn coppery when I tan. My husband, on the other hand, is 100% Roman Catholic Polish, and only second generation American. The boys look mostly like him, with just traces of me in their features. I'm thinking of researching Polish garb for them, because I think it would suit them, though the Skinny Monkey Boy prefers the Neanderthal look--as little clothing as possible! LOL. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 07:42:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DCgRVk031021 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:42:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DCgW9D025581; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:42:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DCgCcC088258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:42:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DCgBq5035809; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:42:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DCg8bE035764 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:42:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.184.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.184] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FImNC-0007d4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:42:07 -0500 Message-ID: <44157665.4050600@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:40:53 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:42:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441568B8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Lovely site, Melanie. Your costumes are all wonderful. [Hey...why skip the > 18th century?] :) I have one 18th-c that I made in high school, so it's not quite up to par with the rest of what's up there. I need to make a new one for teaching costume history, but other things are higher priority right now. > Your ruff instructions are great too. I especially like your use of items > just about anybody can get a hold of! Have you seen Jean Honnisette's ruff > instructions? She "starches" > and does the 8's BEFORE gathering to the neck band. But of course in the > period, this seems unlikely. It makes more sense to me to start with a gathered > ruffle and then manipulate it. Me too. I hadn't looked at Hunnisett for ruffs because she focuses on theatrical applications. I've just pulled her out, and she gives several good versions for the stage. It's true that most theatres can't do all the restarching and setting that I do on mine. She shows several that are box-pleated into the band instead of gathered, and I did actually pleat one of my early ones thinking that that would make it easier to figure out where the figure-eights would go. It just makes it much harder to starch! The gathers (or really really tiny cartridge pleats) are really necessary so that the fullness can spring almost immediately from tightly gathered into the neckband to spread wide into the figure-eights. These gathers and the "springing" action are quite visible in some portraits from the second half of the 16th. The first ruff I did was theatrical-style, made with plastic horsehair braid and cartridge-pleated to a neckband. Then I made a doublet with a standing collar and found that they didn't get along because the length of my neck was taken up with the ruff band. The way I do my ruffs now is not only more accurate, it works better. With all of the ruff springing from the top of the band, it sits nicely behind a standing collar, and since I dry them upside-down after starching, they cradle the face like those in the portraits rather than just sitting out flat. > How did you determine how much yardage to use in the ruff? I use math! I make some sample figure-eights of the size I want them to be, and then see how much flat fabric it takes to make, say, a three-inch-long section of figure-eights. Then I decide how wide the ruff will be from neck edge to hem edge and work from my neck circumference to find the ruff circumference. If the ruff is, for example, 36" around, and it takes 12" of flat fabric to make a 3" section of figure-eights, I'll need 144" of fabric. > More would make bigger 8's, no? Would you need a goffering iron with a larger diameter? Yes. I have two of them. The trick is figuring out just how big the 8s should be each time you starch the things. If you make them too tall, there will be spaces between them because there won't be enough of them to make it all the way around. > Why did you attach the 2nd ruff to the neck of the shirt? If I were you, I > take the ruff and neckband off the shirt, put a new band on the shirt and just > baste them together to wear. That way washing is easier, fixing the ruff is > easier, and you can wear the ruff elsewhere...and the shirt w/out a ruff. True. It was an experiment, and we do know that early ones were attached. But ones of that size, probably not, and I wouldn't do it again. It makes it much harder to restarch. Cheers, Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 07:47:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DClRRr031599 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:47:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DClWa4026812; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:47:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DCkbRK088496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:46:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DCkaxa038620; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:46:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DCkXJ6038600 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.184.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.184] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FImRU-0000Yi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:46:33 -0500 Message-ID: <4415776F.40901@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:45:19 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff References: <000601c64631$d8b5c210$0400a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:47:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441569E4.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > If you put an extra layer on the inside of the ruff neckband, you can take > that off to wash and sew on again more easily. Yes, but the tops of mine also get dirty where they touch my chin, as I unfortunately have oily skin. Plus the shaping of the starch starts to "break down" after a few wearings just from getting bashed about hugging people, leaning back against things, and the exigencies of travel. I do have a nice "case" for carrying them in, but starch is a temporary thing. It just makes me appreciate the hard work of all those starchers in the 16th and 17th centuries! Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after they're made like I do? Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 08:27:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDRLLE000518 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:27:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDRQBP006873; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:27:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDR2V0093182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:27:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDQtUT070427; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:26:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.ece.gatech.edu (mail.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDQi7h070246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:26:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldh@ece.gatech.edu) Received: from localhost (k4-3.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.203]) by mail.ece.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDQiMA003442 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:26:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.ece.gatech.edu ([199.77.227.200]) by localhost (k4-3.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.203]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 19428-08 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:26:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.95] (adsl-065-012-177-048.sip.asm.bellsouth.net [65.12.177.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.ece.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDQFNf003352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:26:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:26:19 -0500 From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ece.gatech.edu Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:27:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415733E.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Greetings! I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community theater settings. I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html Thanks! Lonnie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 08:39:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDdcPU000921 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:39:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDdhv1011516; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:39:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDdKbS094784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:39:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDdJGc080690; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:39:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav9.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDd7EJ080551 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:39:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:39:07 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV9.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:39:06 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:39:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2006 13:39:07.0083 (UTC) FILETIME=[802F39B0:01C646A3] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:39:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415761F.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Greeting from a fellow UGA grad. I have MFA in Fabric Design with a minor in computer art. 1997 grad. Miss it too. I'm now in PA... waaayyy up north. I miss the warmth of the south but not the tornados. Where are you? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting > > Greetings! > > I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of > Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into > computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community > theater settings. > > I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait of > a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking > closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I > have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to > what fabrics would be likely. > > Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a > larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. > http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html > > Thanks! > Lonnie > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 08:46:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDkv4S001128 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:46:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDl2fN014466; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:47:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDkjEN095928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:46:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDkhJN087308; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:46:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.ece.gatech.edu (mail.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDkdki087236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:46:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldh@ece.gatech.edu) Received: from localhost (k4-3.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.203]) by mail.ece.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDkcMA008298 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:46:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.ece.gatech.edu ([199.77.227.200]) by localhost (k4-3.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.203]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 20430-09 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:46:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.95] (adsl-065-012-177-048.sip.asm.bellsouth.net [65.12.177.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.ece.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDjgNf008002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:45:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4415778A.7090700@ece.gatech.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:45:46 -0500 From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ece.gatech.edu Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:47:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441577D6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I am on the research faculty at Georgia Tech, but a couple of years ago, my wife and I moved back to Athens, GA (location of UGA for the non-alumni). A bit of a commute, but I don't go in to campus every day. Lonnie, p.s. I graduated with the BFA in 1985. Becky wrote: > Greeting from a fellow UGA grad. I have MFA in Fabric Design with a > minor in computer art. 1997 grad. Miss it too. I'm now in PA... > waaayyy up north. I miss the warmth of the south but not the tornados. > Where are you? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" > > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:26 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting > > >> >> Greetings! >> >> I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University >> of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on >> into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in >> community theater settings. >> >> I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham >> "Portrait of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a >> velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in >> the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of >> some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. >> >> Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up >> a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the >> detail. >> http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html >> >> Thanks! >> Lonnie >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 08:52:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDq3ot001301 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:52:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDq9VF016573; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:52:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDoPf7096516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDoPci091049; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDoLjj090924 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:50:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IW200BY7JR401L2@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:49:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:49:50 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting In-reply-to: <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:52:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44157909.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Lonnie and welcome! I'm a theatre person too (BA and MA in theatre costume), and pretty new to this list. I'm familiar with this painting-- I do 16th C. Clothing in the SCA-- so here's my advice: I think the doublet drapes too well in the sleeve to be suede. Looks like velvet to me-- you might try heavy cotton velvet, not that awful acetate velvet that they sell for clothing , to reproduce this. Make sure there is no plastic backing on the fabric if you use upholstery velvet. The person wearing it will just die under the lights! Best Regards- Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie D. Harvel Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:26 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Greetings! I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community theater settings. I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html Thanks! Lonnie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 08:57:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDvoZu001524 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:57:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDvtMO018874; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:57:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDvSvf097469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:57:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDvRqY097289; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:57:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDvPDI097258 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:57:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v1so1306195nzb for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:57:25 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=M6I5bioeiOhQEObQEM2HLJET8gV0VNPfd0ExXG7jdk+Yu8bUBZa6W0saP0wdbsHTzjn734DOrXnkXevyxF+ACkURTsZOyRrLW49w3A8PIDknF0agWuV8DCQEKFhb9ccP2rxTnhKDYWOEwvdbdQxSmKkGpAL6Dx2ikR4TZGqibKk= Received: by 10.37.18.57 with SMTP id v57mr459869nzi; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:57:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.13.53 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:56:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070603130556q607ee358m6b4999221446b076@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:56:54 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2DDvPDI097258 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cluny lace company X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:57:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44157A63.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Has anyone here ever ordered from this company? "Cluny Lace Co, Ltd." Their laces look very nice. I am about to do a project requiring large amounts of lace trim and I am looking for a good source. http://www.clunylace.com/index.htm -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 08:57:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDvuMB001528 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:57:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDw1J7028826; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:58:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDvj7V097521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:57:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDvjMs097594; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:57:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDvhOi097573 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:57:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id l8so246972nzf for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:57:43 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=oLwX/PoynmAToSjtjTEcLFDEy5k0Z4Ycqv9353Mw2GPyqurX+er1hRVbsrHjLy1Z7Js/4pVxahx6i4DIM7Mpqqgkvww/tgkfWOS0iMLrVMlSyTfS60STKgWrplhghNSzICgIRYq7jRUtZ9Pv/CsikRERGtNDx2WjiBhttWb2jzQ= Received: by 10.36.84.20 with SMTP id h20mr3541633nzb; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:56:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.13.53 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:56:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070603130556q607ee358m6b4999221446b076@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:56:54 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2DDvhOi097573 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cluny lace company X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:58:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44157A69.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Has anyone here ever ordered from this company? "Cluny Lace Co, Ltd." Their laces look very nice. I am about to do a project requiring large amounts of lace trim and I am looking for a good source. http://www.clunylace.com/index.htm -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:02:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DE2F5T001688 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:02:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DE2Lcg020854; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:02:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DE1kPZ098354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:01:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DE1jt3001441; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:01:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DE1ffZ001258 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:01:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.208.143f1f19 (4568) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:01:29 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <208.143f1f19.3146d539@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:01:29 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Monogram alphabets "Regency" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:02:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44157B6D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/13/2006 6:46:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: Anybody point me at a source for "Regency" alphabets for embroidering monograms on shirts? Men's shirts, as well as women's body linen and household linens, were generally marked with what is called "marking stitches." This is basically little tiny cross stitches, kind of like counted thread stitching, and consist of the person's initials and perhaps a number, if you have more than 1. You can probably find a graph for these, but they are easy to work out yourself. They didn't go in for fancy monogramming--at least, I have never seen any. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:08:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DE8Qd8001913 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:08:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DE8Vsd023526; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:08:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DE6m1r099124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:06:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DE6mSb006434; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:06:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DE6jGG006357 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:06:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22607 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:38:20 -0600 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:38:18 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Medieval clerical underwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:08:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44157CDF.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Below forwarded from another list. I could swear we've talked about this before -- it's in one of the monastic rules, I think, perhaps the passage that mentions "femoralia" that gets brought up every so often? Anyone have a source? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- I think that medieval monastic legislation on dress often specified that underwear had to be worn by monks or friars when going outside the monastery: i.e. there was a pragmatic concern for modesty when travelling about, which would not apply, of course, at burial. I've just looked in Giancarlo Rocca, ed., La sostanza dell'effimero: gli abiti degli ordini religiosi in occidente (Rome: Edizioni Paoline, 2000) for verification, but without success. Someone else may have a source to hand. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:10:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEAibF001995 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:10:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEAnFM024518; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:10:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEAVAi099869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:10:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEAUo8009873; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:10:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEARHq009708 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:10:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IW200ABKKOS7HE7@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:10:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:10:02 -0500 From: monica spence In-reply-to: <20060312213133.7m36ui2um1j4w8wc@www.goldsword.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:10:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44157D69.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi All- I subbed as the instructor for a Clothing History class a couple of weeks ago. One of the instructors notes stated that the ruff was a "descendant" of a chemise with a drawstring neck. I have been a costumer since I was 12 (oh, boy am I dating myself), with a BA and MA in Theatre costume and 18 years of 16th C. clothing research in the SCA that resulted in a Laurel-- and now I teach fashion on the college level, so I guess I'm pretty intense about my clothing.... Anyway I have never seen anything about a drawstring that is Medieval or Renaissance. As a matter of fact something I read said it was the result of the "I need 100 chemises fast" mindset of the original Ren Faires. The chemises I have seen--- and this is only in paintings, mind you-- show no indication of a drawstring in the neck-- either a high neckline or low neckline. Can anyone help me on this? My professor friend has said she found a reference in "several books" but is more than willing to look at what I find , and change her lecture, as necessary. We both hate the idea of disseminating incorrect information to students. Thanks a bunch-- Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:25:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEPf2B002922 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:25:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEPkm8031081; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:25:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEPROZ001583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:25:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEPRUc022238; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:25:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEPNP1022159 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:25:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m74.in-tch.com [216.166.191.74]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2DEGWA27362 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:16:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <002a01c646aa$fabcce20$4abfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:25:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441580EA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Could be either, I think. Slashing wasn't exactly unknown on woven fabrics , but there are a couple of doublets in _Patterns of Fashion_ that are made, at least in part, of suede and/or leather. It could be velvet or another piled fabric, or really, really nice wool (given that this fellow isn't an aristocrat), OR leather. Think you'd have to experiment with drape and whatnot.... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 6:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting > > Greetings! > > I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of > Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into > computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community > theater settings. > > I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait > of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but > looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and > collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am > curious as to what fabrics would be likely. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:27:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DERJMc002982 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:27:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEROX3014928; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:27:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DER04N001822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:27:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEQxom023672; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:27:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52113.mail.yahoo.com (web52113.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DEQwsB023525 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:26:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 97112 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Mar 2006 14:26:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=3C/Pv9K113OvhqDwPge6bGvNbox3OjjlwOWbIVl1LE0lAlvtX8hLmIph7k7WxBGWUP58WmsO3azSOck62PUnu0HI9h/4pz0GP17WUCIadPjQVlZRU4G+J4RFNfanO7RGkZp/nBd55UHW7A3md/4SsFof3At3lMveyEPNu2uwtfw= ; Message-ID: <20060313142651.97110.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:26:51 EST Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:26:51 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603131327.k2DDR2Ro070567@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Greetings and question about a painting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:27:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415814C.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Lonnie, Welcome to the List. :-) Im apt to lean toward wool for this one. It doesn't have the typical luminosity that silk velvets would have had at the time and the hand of the fabric looks pretty dense. As to the pinking though, any fabric will take that kind of decoration. It's a matter of how well it will stand up to regular abuse. A judicious application of an adhesive on the back side before pinking will help just about anything endure abuse a little longer. Interesting though how it appears that his smock looks like it could be red. That's vanishingly rare. Im wondering where the closure is? Back seems illogical for men - perhaps down the far side? The collar looks to be hanging asymmetrically. Kathy > I have a question about the fabric/material used in > the Beham "Portrait > of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess > was a velvet, but > looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work > in the trim and > collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede > of some kind. I am > curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:27:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DERQdi002995 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:27:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DERVH0022538; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:27:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEOtfi001478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:24:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEOs8d021721; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:24:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DEOmOP021532 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:24:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 78988 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2006 14:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.16.116 with login) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2006 14:24:42 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060313142339.01d86988@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:24:44 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Monogram alphabets "Regency" In-Reply-To: <208.143f1f19.3146d539@aol.com> References: <208.143f1f19.3146d539@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:27:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44158153.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 14:01 13/03/2006, you wrote: > >In a message dated 3/13/2006 6:46:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > >Anybody point me at a source for "Regency" alphabets for embroidering >monograms on shirts? > > >Men's shirts, as well as women's body linen and household linens, were >generally marked with what is called "marking stitches." This is >basically little >tiny cross stitches, kind of like counted thread stitching, and consist of >the person's initials and perhaps a number, if you have more than >1. You can >probably find a graph for these, but they are easy to work out yourself. >They didn't go in for fancy monogramming--at least, I have never seen any. Thank you Ann - I should have remembered that. Having a bit of a ditzy morning! You are right, I can work that out by myself. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:33:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEX6Dq003181 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:33:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEXAmx002163; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:33:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEWW8f002496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEWSsI028576; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52103.mail.yahoo.com (web52103.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.106]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DEWQ0c028467 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 89250 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Mar 2006 14:32:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=jRPAsBiUzq+Uqh17y9CrRXCQ895eMGzNAz2JMtqsKeY7pOQriFghn09Lz67g8+PcY5/t9fsZCQrLd3JPwqEpTc92fnqNez4zGkmHLtTaPn17p0CfbOm8QmVIVCNlTNPQpzZf2pZnl4RgAIDWrgbPHkFp8O83vju5HIYUdx5wB5c= ; Message-ID: <20060313143221.89248.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:32:21 EST Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:32:21 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Obsessed with underwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:33:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441582A6.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hard not to seem fetishistic when one has such a preoccupation with what goes on under one's skirts. ;-) I'm doing a bit of byproduct research at the moment and can't figure out why there is such a clearly understood, but as-of-yet not terribly well supported belief that English women didn't wear underwear for, at the very least the 1500-1600 block of time. They were worn at other points in time - bikini type appear in illuminations through the middle ages. All over continental Europe at various periods they were the norm. Thus far I have tracked the usage like this: >From the Middle East to Spain, >From Spain to Italy, >From Italy to France, and only until after the French Revolution, does England cave in and cover up. (Or so I have found without sources thus far) Best I can find right now are two implied statements from Fynes Morryson and Samuel Pepys. Neither actually out right say "English women don't wear underwear", the implication is through their reaction to continental women that do. Just where is this coming from??? Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:33:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEX8EV003182 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:33:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEXEGZ018936; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:33:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEWvbK002548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEWugD029086; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.176.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DEWpwN028911 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lenastrid@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 20198 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Mar 2006 14:32:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=N2scFWZn8v5/VVGZdNZkjb3gupMygsGwWWeKrq/j+VF5/tU8Io70+soaUUnbM4f0P1GwqyZQ2AsELSHSuGL53Ilp7WSLAwY+H2NN1mlpPdgjMJhrWoY0f3D1ZxLJGNn9xvImGALeMi2yrdQZwKseFBvp71gFF7TksWCu+g6Do64= ; Message-ID: <20060313143246.20196.qmail@web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.158.62.84] by web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:32:46 GMT Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:32:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Lena Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval clerical underwear To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:33:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441582AA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have that one somewhere. I'll go look in my office sometime in the week. I'm moving house right now, but I'm fairly certain I know where those papers should be. /Lena --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > Below forwarded from another list. I could swear > we've talked about this > before -- it's in one of the monastic rules, I > think, perhaps the passage > that mentions "femoralia" that gets brought up every > so often? Anyone have > a source? > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > I think that medieval monastic legislation on dress > often specified that > underwear had to be worn by monks or friars when > going outside the > monastery: i.e. there was a pragmatic concern for > modesty when travelling > about, which would not apply, of course, at burial. > I've just looked in > Giancarlo Rocca, ed., La sostanza dell'effimero: gli > abiti degli ordini > religiosi in occidente (Rome: Edizioni Paoline, > 2000) for verification, > but without success. Someone else may have a source > to hand. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:37:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEbJPD003307 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:37:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEbO48004153; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:37:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEb3oM003190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:37:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEb2pS033144; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:37:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEavos032933 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:36:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-1389.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.85.111]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CD1BE681 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:36:48 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:36:51 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> <002a01c646aa$fabcce20$4abfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <002a01c646aa$fabcce20$4abfa6d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060313143648.D2CD1BE681@cardassian.kabelfoon.nl> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:37:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441583A4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO A nice wool works. I have made this one. Unfortionally I don't have a good picture of it. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/16thcent/16woman/IF3.jpg Sue Clemenger wrote: >Could be either, I think. Slashing wasn't exactly unknown on woven fabrics >, but there are a couple of doublets in _Patterns of Fashion_ that are >made, at least in part, of suede and/or leather. >It could be velvet or another piled fabric, or really, really nice wool >(given that this fellow isn't an aristocrat), OR leather. Think you'd have >to experiment with drape and whatnot.... >--Sue > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 6:26 AM >Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting > > > > >>Greetings! >> >>I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of >>Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into >>computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community >>theater settings. >> >>I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait >>of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but >>looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and >>collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am >>curious as to what fabrics would be likely. >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:39:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEdRe1003375 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:39:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEdXuj023096; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:39:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEdFTr003520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:39:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEdEco035091; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:39:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEdAnF034966 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:39:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.66]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060313143904.KKHC16513.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:39:04 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060313083248.02773a30@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:38:59 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rp070567@net.indra.com> References: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rp070567@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Greetings and question about a painting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:39:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44158425.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO To me, it looks like a high quality woolen. well fulled and napped. Beth At 07:27 AM 3/13/2006, Lonnie wrote: > >I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait >of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but >looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and >collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am >curious as to what fabrics would be likely. > >Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a >larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. >http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html > >Thanks! >Lonnie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:48:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEmTVn003646 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:48:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEmYA1009664; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:48:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEm2Bx004491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:48:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DElvPe042279; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:47:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DElq61042184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:47:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:27782 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FIoKx-0007WW-9z for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:47:56 -0600 Message-ID: <00a501c646ad$1c3e0170$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001101c6463f$1a9b30e0$a3bfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:22:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:48:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44158642.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have the Finnest face (and nose) in all the land--maybe I should look into what was worn there. I'm hopelessly Franco-Flemish in garb taste too, though. I'm curious about this discussion about typical facial features, though--does anyone remember enough about when it took place or what the subject lines were to help me find it in the archives? This has been a topic of fascination for me for quite a while. I have friends and friends of friends who are from eastern Asia and Africa who can look at someone and immediately tell what geographical area or what tribe the Americans they see walking down the street are originally from. It absolutely knocks my socks off! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:00:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DF0AMM004068 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:00:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DF0FBE015325; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:00:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEwcH1006098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:58:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEwbZP051499; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:58:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEwVjN051335 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:58:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23147 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:30:04 -0600 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:30:03 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obsessed with underwear In-Reply-To: <20060313143221.89248.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:00:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441588FF.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, Kathy Page wrote: > I'm doing a bit of byproduct research at the moment and can't figure > out why there is such a clearly understood, but as-of-yet not terribly > well supported belief that English women didn't wear underwear for, at > the very least the 1500-1600 block of time. They were worn at other > points in time - bikini type appear in illuminations through the > middle ages. All over continental Europe at various periods they were > the norm. I think it is not safe to generalize about "through the middle ages" and "all over continental Europe." Certainly in Gothic-era Western Europe (before 1500) there is no good evidence for women wearing anything under their shifts. There are a handful of images that get trotted out as underwear examples whenever this comes up, but as we've hashed out multiple times on this list (and as Heather Rose Jones ably showed during her presentation on this topic at the Medieval Congress a few years ago*) each of these is clearly designed to be an exception to accepted practice: e.g. an image of a cross-dressing saint, a satiric view of an uppity woman taking the man's role, etc. Balance that with a handful of written references that make it clear that women were expected to be panty-less as a norm, and a huge quantity of images in which underwear might be expected but is absent, and the case is really quite strong. I certainly don't know of a vast quantity of medieval European illuminations of "bikini" underwear on women. On men, yes. In Roman art, yes (but then possibly in certain circumstances only, e.g. athletic wear). Maybe one or two medieval images I can think of that fall into the category above of deliberate exceptions that prove the rule. As you move away from England, and away from Western Europe, you might have a better case. I do agree that the 16th c. saw the movement of female underwear into Western Europe, as you have described: > From the Middle East to Spain, > From Spain to Italy, > From Italy to France, I believe there's a reference to one or two sets of drawers in Queen Elizabeth's wardrobe, but no evidence that she actually wore them (vs. them being gifts from foreign ambassadors and novelties). On the other hand, her wardrobe accounts record vast quantities of those items that she did wear on a daily basis, down to pins by the thousands and many personal items, and one would think that if she wore drawers routinely they would be recorded along with the rest of the wardrobe. > Best I can find right now are two implied statements from Fynes > Morryson and Samuel Pepys. Neither actually out right say "English > women don't wear underwear", the implication is through their reaction > to continental women that do. That's exactly the sort of evidence you're likely to find. If something isn't routinely worn, isn't considered normal or typical, people don't talk or write about it much, except when they have occasion to talk about those who do wear it (e.g. those bizarre foreigners). The absence of other evidence is a pretty good indicator that the items simply weren't around -- not just the pictures that show men with drawers and women without, but also documentary evidence, e.g. the lack of mention of drawers along with chemises, caps, and other linen goods in milliners' shop lists. An analogy: How often do people today talk about women not wearing neckties? If you were trying to show through documents and artwork that women in the USA c. 2000 don't wear neckties, what kind of evidence would you have? > Just where is this coming from??? Not sure what your question is -- you mean, where do people get the idea that English women didn't wear underwear till, at best, late in the 16th c., and most likely not till later? Perhaps it's true? If you find solid evidence to the contrary, I know this list will be very happy to hear it. --Robin *coming soon to a volume of Medieval Clothing & Textiles ... vol. 4 I hope (right, Heather?) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:02:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DF2Vx7004144 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:02:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DF2a5U016451; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:02:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DF0toL006856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:00:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DF0l3d054073; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:00:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52115.mail.yahoo.com (web52115.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DF0ill053914 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 22070 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Mar 2006 15:00:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=2YhHGGg8SKoU55Ll1c7E8/UUbA6qy7dI/RGt+ZYt/Z2n9PUKyEA3bv1lh5vegrHmwOiV5j6f5au//+mcJzEcJgiW1ZOTPWxMrtORY4qMC8U7DGgWQ4f+Xbd03KVETi6B3NRhwTD/FxlbUt8PboogwlJ95fOPH6D3qvstuRa4of0= ; Message-ID: <20060313150034.22068.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52115.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:00:34 EST Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:00:34 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Trying to find original source X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:02:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415898C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm sprucing up a pair of kid gloves to look more elizabethan, and have decided this is what I want them to look like: http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg (hopefully tht link works, it said it uploaded just fine, but I couldn't get it to open myself. weird.) The drawing is from Cunningtons' "Handbook of English Costume in the Sixteenth Century". When I checked her source for the drawing, it was not an original painting as I had hoped, but another book (Kelly's "Shakespearean Costume"). I know I have seen these gloves in a painting just recently but I can't for the life of me recall the painting itself. I had found a close-ish Spanish one, but it's hard to tell. Does it ring a bell for anyone? Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:09:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DF9vaM004379 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:09:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DF9xh6019898; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:10:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DF96TS009251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:09:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DF91QS061464; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:09:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DF8v2W061266 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:08:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2DF8ki22229.; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:08:46 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:08:46 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:08:23 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obsessed with underwear Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2DF8v2W061266 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:10:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44158B47.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO As I've mentioned before, I found it hard to believe that women used not to wear drawers until I saw the Rowlandson print "Exhibition Stare Case", which shows 18th century women tumbling down stairs and obviously not wearing any. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:15:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFFPEE004581 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:15:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFFTMQ022573; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:15:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFFDDo011475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:15:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFFBEr066788; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:15:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFF8OC066719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:15:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:27802 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FIolK-0002kT-Jp for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:15:11 -0600 Message-ID: <00a901c646b0$eace39d0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ... Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:15:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:15:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44158C92.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" >> Elijah & the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves >> http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg > > I think she's pretty realistic. I've seen those sleeves elsewhere. I think > I saw this one in person, or one much like it, and took pictures -- not > for the sleeve, but for the fitting at the back waist. IIRC, there's a > horizontal seam at the top of the pleats, but it sort of comes out of > nowhere -- it doesn't go beyond the pleated area. I would have to find the > slides to confirm that, though. This is not the only gown I saw that on; > it's some sort of technique for fitting over the rump. I can think of two > or three ways to do it. I've been pondering this sleeve style for a while. It is seen pretty often, and occasionally on non-saints, but... I think there's at least one symbolic element to it, and I'm pretty sure it's the fringe that often shows up. I can't think of a single occasion when that sleeve fringe did not appear on a Jewish/Old Testament figure. Even though the short sleeves worn over a chemise look is realistic, I think that perhaps it shows up in paintings/illuminations/etc a bit more than necessary in a representative fashion sense, as an easy way to display that symbolic fringe. If anyone is interested in that pleated bustle effect style dress, just wait around a few days; that's the style I post about all the freakin' time! =} (Or at least the later variant of it.) If you want to see more pictures of that style, you can wade through the temp files I have online: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/ http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/ http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/ There's all sorts of other stuff in there too, but I'm too busy/lazy to pick out the bustle ones at the moment. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:21:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFL1Yd004791 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:21:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFL6Kc025019; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:21:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFKiXe014573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFKg1L072416; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:20:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFKdKv072197 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:20:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:20:24 -0800 Message-ID: <44158DC7.9010301@msn.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:20:39 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2006 15:20:24.0327 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6811170:01C646B1] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:21:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44158DE2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Monica, this has been discussed numerous time on this list. I think you will be successful in searching the archives for it. I suggest you try the archives listed on this page: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume but also check out this mail archive: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.culture.studies.history.costume You can search more easily there in my opinion. As to the topic, IMHO, you may both be right. I think you'll find the jist of the conversations to say that it is fair to say that the ruff developed from the chemise irrespective of how the neck line was handled. OTH, I if I remember how the discussions have gone, you simply won't find any substantial evidence that drawn necklines existed or were prevalent enough to say that was the source. Clearly, they are used extensively in Ren. Fair. situations. :-) Sg The Power of AND …Or how I learned to stay focused on work and still go fly fishing. By Eric Balinski “… a key aspect of highly visionary companies: They do not oppress themselves with what we call the Tyranny of the OR – the rational view that cannot easily accept paradox, which cannot live with two seemingly contradictory forces or ideas at the same time. The Tyranny of OR pushes people to believe that things must be either A or B but not both.” _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:45:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFjaFQ005800 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:45:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFjfrs003951; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:45:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFjOXo025799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:45:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFjMw5097607; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:45:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFjF3h097483 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:45:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23694 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:16:49 -0600 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:16:47 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) In-Reply-To: <00a501c646ad$1c3e0170$e100a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:45:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441593A5.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, E House wrote: > I'm curious about this discussion about typical facial features, > though--does anyone remember enough about when it took place or what the > subject lines were to help me find it in the archives? I have one post saved from Nov. 24, 2002, with the subject line "body type periods." It refers back to an even earlier thread, so this wasn't the original discussion. And again in Nov. 2003, with a subject line "Facial and body types & costume", which also refers back to the original thread. I cannot find the original thread. Certain things tend to come up over and over. > This has been a topic of fascination for me for quite a while. I have > friends and friends of friends who are from eastern Asia and Africa > who can look at someone and immediately tell what geographical area or > what tribe the Americans they see walking down the street are > originally from. It absolutely knocks my socks off! A Ukranian at the Medieval Congress once nailed me not only as Ukranian, but correctly placed my family as from Kiev. On one guess. Yow. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:47:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFlNAB005864 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:47:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFlS5k003364; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:47:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFk2lD026122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:46:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFk1PA098317; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:46:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms048pub.