From: Gretchen Miller Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 18:34:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-costume digest, Volume 2, Nov 1, 1993 The Historic Costume List Digest, Issue 2, November 17, 1993 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Note: This is the second digest I've ever produced, so it'll be a few days before the format stabilizes. Please bear with me until then. Thanks and Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Inelegance More Troubles with Folkwear and Folkwear Museum Patterns Cleaning Costumes Continued Biographies, biographies, biographies Costume Con 12 Source Guide for Costuming supplies ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 01:20:25 -0500 From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) Subject: Inelegance Diane Close had said: Perhaps his/her message hasn't gotten through yet, but I haven't seen anything by any "Aryk" yet. cjcannon was referring to a response to the mailing list announcement which I posted on alt.history.living. Here's a copy: Newsgroups: alt.history.living Subject: Inelegance (was announcement of mailing list) Date: 15 Nov 1993 15:40:30 -0500 Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto In article <2c8j7g$lv1@fido.asd.sgi.com> h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu writes : >Gretchen Miller and Diane Close announce the creation of: [the admirable new historical costume mailing list] .... >This list concentrates on recreating period elegance, from the Bronze age >to the mid-20th Century. Now let me put in a word here about elegance. Sure, elegance is a wonderful thing, in its place. But devoting a mailing list to period elegance ignores an important section of costume history: inelegance. I put it to the readership here that for every elegant Robert E. Lee in history there were a hundred U.S. Grants, buying their coats off the rack and smoking badly-rolled cigars. Who wins the war? Not the dashing cavaliers -- no, it's the people led by a President who took fashion advice from small children, who couldn't dance, and who was proud of the fact that his legs were long enough to reach the ground. For every Kenneth Branagh and Laurence Olivier portrayal of an immaculately dressed, beautifully barbered Henry V, there is a goofy-looking historical reality with a haircut courtesy of his chamber pot. Look at the exuberant peasants in Brueghel paintings: are they historical? Yes! Are they having fun? Yes! Are they elegant? No way! Especially not that fat guy with the self-satisfied expression on his face. Take Highlanders. The most fierce and romantic clothing known to man. Colourful. Expensive. Standing firm in the face of determined Russian cavalry charges. Attracts women like flies. Elegant? No way. What about Winston Churchill? He was criticised throughout his life for dressing like an actor -- his Astrakhan-collared overcoat alone was a scandal. Smoked big fat cigars. Required extra-strong pallbearers at his funeral. Seriously out-dressed by the Duke of Windsor (that fashion deity), but who had to settle for a dukedom and who had the pleasure of turning one down? General Howe, General Gage and General Burgoyne were impeccably dressed commanders who controlled armies of some of the sharpest-dressed troops in history. Their enemies were the Continentals, who went most of the American Revolution without the benefit of French fashion advice. Yet the scruffy continentals, led by a man with hippopotamus teeth, managed to declare independence in the words of a gawky big-nosed farmer-architect whose house sounds as though it were named after a string instrument. Sure, there are some historical victories of elegance. The English victory over Napoleon can be ascribed to Beau Brummel's insistence that Englishmen ought to wear simple, dark suits. The Restoration of the English and Scottish monarchy can be attributed to the poor haircuts of the Roundheads. Jean Lafitte managed to control Barataria in the face of British, Yankee, French and Spanish enemies on pure panache. But I put it to the elegant Mss. Miller and Close that for all the importance of elegance in historical costume, the importance of inelegance is perhaps still more historically significant. All the best, Aryk Nusbacher Aspiring to inelegance ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 07:26:44 EST From: toftner@lust.ICD.Teradyne.COM (Liv Toftner) Subject: re: My pet peeve: Folkwear patterns My way of dealing with the attrocious instructions of the Folkwear patterns is to ignore them and sew up the garment my way. I have had quite a bit of experience with community theater, where I drafted my own patterns and had to figure out the details at the sewing machine. I have not bought any of the new Museum line, but I am about to! Liv Toftner toftner@icd.teradyne.com ------------------------------------------------------------- From: ejp@watson.ibm.com (Elizabeth J. Poole) Subject: Hooray for this List, anyway! Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 10:49:27 -0500 You know, just when you think something conveys a message pretty well, somebody brings up Yet Another Change. >This list concentrates on recreating period elegance, from the Bronze age >to the mid-20th Century. Of course, I was assuming all along that that would convey the same impression as "elegant period recreations", and Aryk states (elegantly, no matter what he says he aspires to :) "No, it doesn't." Well, ok. That makes the distinction pretty clear: you can have an elegant recreation of a Victorian mercantile couple, right down to the vulgar magenta fabric from the newly-fashionable aniline dyes. It ain't elegance, though. :) I plan to discuss those things, anyway, and not sweat the details of the announce, because I'm confident that they're included. What's not included would be more like visible duct tape at the hemline. :) cheers, ejp -------- Elizabeth Poole Yorktown Heights, NY ejp@watson.ibm.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- From: ejp@watson.ibm.com (Elizabeth J. Poole) Subject: Re: cleaning costumes (was: Janet Arnold) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 11:10:50 -0500 Donna Holsten writes: > The problem is, I'm doing trim > with couched gold thread on taffeta, on the bodice, sleeves, and skirt. > (And I won't even think about how the gold thread would come out of the > washer and dryer...it makes me shudder!) It made *me* shudder, a year or two ago, when a nasty roof leak overtook my costume closet and riddled everything with green mold. And guess what? You can machine wash damn near anything. The gold thread and the fancy gold braid trim on my miscellaneous Norman noble dress survived just fine on the cold/gentle cycle. The couching at the edges needs a little work, but not enough to make me abandon machine-washing. :) Make a test sample of your trim, velveteen, taffeta, couched gold thread, and all, and give it a few test runs through your machine. Given my episode last year, I'd bet more on the taffeta being a problem than the gold thread. :) If that's the case, you might want to stabilize the taffeta with interfacing. Of course, I'm only guessing. What sort of trim? Gold embroidery on a two-inch band of taffeta that could be whipstitched back on by hand after every washing? Figurative embroidery, or more Henry8 continuous-line interlaced braidwork? Are you working from a Hilliard portrait, or a Holbein? :) I just love this period, and I need to hear more. cheers, ejp Elizabeth Poole Yorktown Heights, NY ejp@watson.ibm.com --------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: My pet peeve: Folkwear patterns Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 12:58:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth Lear Newman I have a lot of Folkwear patterns, but I tend to use the instructions as a guide. In one case, I was making the Russian and Ukranian shirts by instinct from patterns I had made from existing clothing, and the pattern sewing instructions seemed to waste a lot of effort for little results. In another case, the instructions seemed straightforward enough. I've got the second museum pattern, the Cossack uniform. I'll let you guys know how it goes. ...eliz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 13:27:20 -0500 From: Gayle_Surrette@brown.edu (Gayle Surrette) Subject: Questions -- general I've looked and can't find the alt.history.living anywhere. Is this a new group? on internet or listserv somewhere? I'm acquainted with the Folkwear patterns but where would you find out about the museum replica-type patterns. I get several museum catalogs but haven't seen anything like this listed? Last but not least, I got the introductory mail but unfortunately for me, it didn't include the text that was supposed to be included. However, it told me it didn't include it. Could someone send me a copy? Also, I tried to send a message to change my mail to digest but it bounced. Anyone have directions for doing this? Thanks, Gayle ========================================================= Gayle Surrette, Dept. Computer Coordinator SSDC@postoffice.brown.edu Brown University, Maxcy Hall, Box 1916 Gayle_Surrette@brown.edu Providence, RI 02912 ========================================================== ------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: My biography, of sorts. Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 13:27:48 -0500 From: Elizabeth Lear Newman Okay, I'll chip in: I can't remember how long I've been sewing, but it's been at least since I was 10. By the time I was in high school I was turning out costumes for the drama department (which I was also very active in with acting), and by college I was making Halloween costumes and such for friends. This naturally led me into the SCA, where I am a garb merchant. This means I make and sell the clothing we wear at events, and I do both off-the-rack and custom work. For the custom work, people generally give me pictures or point out something they like in my reference books, and I make it for them. For the off-the-rack work, I specialize in Eastern European and Middle Eastern costumes from the SCA period, which is roughly 600-1600AD. By the way, I live in Boston, which makes shopping for fabrics a lot of fun. I've even got my husband up to the point where I can send him out fabric shopping alone, he can make simple things on my sewing machines, and he's not even afraid of using my serger anymore. :) Like Diane, I will also do every last little thing I can on my machines before I use a needle and thread. ..eliz ------------------------------------------------------------- From: karrie@hydra.unm.edu Subject: general info Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 12:31:21 -0700 (MST) hey, I am really glad this list got started! I am just a beginner in the sewing of historic costumes, when I say beginner I mean beginner. These FolkWear patterns you refer to - is there a catlog I could get somewhere? Are there other catlogs? Adresses 1-800 numbers would be appreciated! I'm not set into one period yet, but I just say the movie 3 muskeeters and loved all of the costumes in there. Has anyone else seen it?? And if so do you know where I could find patterns for the men's clothing? Especially the cloaks with the buttons and panels (bad description.. but I can't think clearly right now - need sleep)! thanks.. Karrie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Nov 93 19:54 GMT From: SCM.MANKER@AppleLink.Apple.COM (Nichols, Kristen) Subject: Request with a bio tacked on.. Is there anyone on H-Costume that is in the San Francisco Bay Area? I am a beginning sewer and would love to get in contact with someone locally. Just a little background on myself (since Diane posted her bio and I hope others will to). Before this past August I had never done ANY sewing in my whole life and assumed I never would. Mid-summer I joined a Scottish renaissance guild and found out how much it would cost to have someone make me some appropriate garb. When my checkbook looked me in the face and said "I'm out of here babe" I figured that it couldn't hurt to try and make something myself. After some sketchy advice from other members of the guild I set to my task and did a pretty good job making a very simple hunt. I was very lucky to have a friend teach me all the sewing skills as I made this dress. I just finished making my second dress and I even amazed myself! (Sorry, I'm just so proud I gotta brag for a minute and then I promise to shut up!) This time I made a lovely emerald green velvet noble...without a pattern! My friend who helped me on my first dress was even amazed at what I had done. So now I am hooked and am eager to start on yet another dress. (This is going to become an expensive hobby!) Any advice, horror stories, suggestions, etc. that any of you could give me would be VERY much appreciated! I'm looking forward to reading more bio's from the rest of you. Kristen ----------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 15:29:30 -0500 From: Pat Dennis Subject: Another bio... Well, I guess I'll join in on the introductions... I've been into sewing for 2-3 years, but just normal (modern) clothing. This summer I made my own wedding dress (with dark green trim!), and my groom's clothing. We just joined a Revolutionary war period re-enactment club, so we will be making some clothes from that period. I love to look at Folkwear patterns and imagine making most of them. Unfortunately these mind-projects would take up all my time and then some... But I plan to start (after Christmas) making a few of these ethnic patterns to wear. I love this list, and I like to hear about other people's projects. As far as I'm concerned, it's not bragging, but sharing information. One final question - is there a good mail order source for period fabrics? The fabric stores in the Buffalo area do not have a very good selection of anything except quilter's calicos. I get the Amazon Dry Goods catalog, but their prices seem to be pretty high. Pat ------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 12:43:40 PST From: tjshadb@ecto.ca.sandia.gov (Troy J. Shadbolt) Subject: Costume Con 12 flyer The Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild =Dreamer's of Decadence= present CostumeCon 12 the Twelth Annual Costumer's Convention February 18-21, 1994 at the Santa Clara Marriott Hotel Santa Clara, California ******************************************************************************* ******************************************************************************* ** Science Fiction & Fantasy Masquerade ** ** Historical Masquerade ** ** Dealer's Room ** ** Exhibits, Panels, Workshops, Demos ** ** Friday Night Social, the Space Platform Xanadu! ** ** Future Fashion Design Competition ** ** Fabric Design Competition ** ** Doll Contest ** ** Art-to-Wear Juried Exhibition ** ** Folkwear Single Pattern Contest ** ** and many, many others! ** ******************************************************************************* ******************************************************************************* CostumeCon is, in a nutshell, an event for anyone and everyone who has an an interest in the art of Costuming. Pricing Structure: Until December 31, 1993 ICG Members: $45.00 others: $55.00 January 1, 1994 to At-the-Door: ICG Members: $50.00 others: $60.00 Single-Day tickets will be sold at the door. For more information, contact: e-mail: tjshadb@ecto.ca.sandia.gov ******************************* Troy J. Shadbolt tjshadb@ecto.ca.sandia.gov ******************************* ------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 12:51:22 PST From: tjshadb@ecto.ca.sandia.gov (Troy J. Shadbolt) Subject: GBACG Supplies List This list of sources is in no way complete; but merely a sample. the Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild =Dreamer's of Decadence= *Source Guide for Costuming Supplies* Amazon Drygoods 2218 East 11th Street Davenport, Iowa 52803-3760 (319) 322-6800 8-5pm CST three separate catalog lines. The Bead Shop of Palo Alto 177 Hamilton Avenue Palo Alto, Ca 94301 (415) 328-7880 full-color catalog $3.00 The Bead Shop of Los Altos 201 First Street Los Altos, Ca 94022 (415) 949-1984 sister store to Palo Alto Britex Fabrics 146 Geary (Union Square) San Francisco, Ca 94103 (415) 392-2910 the Godhead of Fabric, swatches-by-mail The Costume Bank 762 Fulton San Francisco, Ca (415) 921-2610 The Costume Bank 169 State Street Los Altos, Ca 94022 (415) 941-2610 Dharma Trading Company 1604 4th Street San Rafael, Ca 94915 (415) 456-7657 Drama Books 134 Ninth Street San Francisco, Ca 94103 (415) 255-0604 books, books, books, by phone. Lacis 2982 Adeline Street Berkeley, Ca 94703 (510) 843-7178 mail-order catalog Orb Weaver 4793 Telegraph Avenue Oakland, Ca (510) 658-0452 Beads & Jewelery supplies Raiments P.O. Box 93095 Pasadena, Ca 91109 (818) 797-2723 [Tues, Wed, Thurs 10am-4pm PST] over 900 historical costume patterns IN STOCK catalog $5.00 (with $5.00 off next $50.00 purchase) Richard the Thread 1433 North Orange Grove Hollywood, Ca 90046 (213) 874-1116 Theatrical Costume Patterns for advanced sewers! catalog available The Whole Costumer's Catalog Box 207 Main Street Beallsville, Pa 15313 (412) 769-3242 Compuserve 71620,2247 the Bible $14.95 + $3.00 shipping (First Class) *************************** Troy J. Shadbolt tjshadb@ecto.ca.sandia.gov *************************** --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 13:39:57 PST From: jo.staytonwong@sunwest2.West.Sun.COM (Jo Wong - Western Area SE Admin) Subject: Another Biography I had just started my bio when Kristen's message popped up. I'm also in the bay area, in Palo Alto. I've sewn clothes since childhood. Embroidery was my first love. I would use just about any pretty color thread or fabric to make small freehand pictures. Even did a life size cover of Elton John's Mad Man Across the Water Album on the back of a denim shirt my first year in college. I've never been a member of the SCA, though I've have many friends who are or were members (including my sister). Neither have I been involved in theatre. My connection to costuming comes through a love of illustration. For a few years I did free lance illustration, mostly SF/Fantasy. I do pictures occassionally now. The need for money has put me back in the work-a-day world. Just last month I sewed my first Folklore pattern. I have to agree the directions were misleading. I did the Tibetan Panel Coat with alternate solid, tapestry fabric, lined in satin with velvet collar. It was for a fancy shindig where my husband went in a tux. I had trouble getting my version to match with the directions. But it turned out okay. I too would be interested in finding out about the museum patterns mentioned. I love going to museums to view historic costumes. Last year we were able to go to Vienna Austria and I made a point of going to see Charlemagne's crown. Just past the crown there was a hallway lined with robes and a long train that I believe were worn by Charlemagne or by some of his nobles. The work was incredible. I've used historical costumes from photographs as reference material for years. But to see these things in person gives them a weight and substance that no photo can describe. I am not scholarly in this area. Admittedly the beauty and construction delight me more than the historical importance of such items. I tend to look at them as fuel for my personal creative fires. Yet at the same time I have a great respect for their construction and purpose. Jo Anne Stayton-Wong /\ \\ \ Jo Wong, Western Area SE Admin \ \\ / Sun Microsystems, Inc. / \/ / / / / \//\ jo.wong@west.sun.COM \//\ / / / / /\ / 1842 N. Shoreline Blvd. / \\ \ Mt. View, CA 94043 \ \\ PHONE: (415) 960-4254 \/ FAX: (415) 967-7460 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - jswong@taanstfl.west.sun.com | "Science repudiates philosophy. In "These thoughts are mine, these words | other words, it has never cared to are mine. Everything else belongs to | justify its truth or explain its the bank." | meaning." Alfred North Whitehead ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 14:08:57 PST From: Linda.McAllister@Eng.Sun.COM (Linda McAllister) Subject: Re: My pet peeve: Folkwear patterns Folkwear's always been quirky, and not for a novice. I've been using their patterns off and on since the late 70's, and there has been some improvement in instructions over time (or I've gotten used to them). What bothers me the most about them is that they're neither completely accurate historically (or ethnically somethimes), nor do they follow current Big 4 conventions. Occasionally they'll have something that sounds bizarre but works - the sleeve insertion sounded bizarre, but worked. Haven't tried any of the Met patterns yet - I have the Russian uniform, but I'm still trying to figure out fitting mods. Bio: I've been sewing ever since I can remember, and have been interested in classic couture for a few years. I'm a novice to historical costuming; my experience in this area has been limited to adapting some patterns (mainly Folkwear) for business wear. I'm interested mainly in early 20th century (until I can find a good place to wear a Watteau gown!), both design and techniques. Linda McAllister ----------------------------------------------------------- From: cjcannon@ucdavis.edu Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 13:41:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Bio Born way too late for most of the fascinating clothes. Learned to sew on my Grandmother's (who raised me) old treadle under her steady, patient guidance. Wish I'd been more aware and could have learned to crochet lace from her, too, while I was at it. I sew (though I'm no seamstress, by any stretch of the imagination) for the results--and if I feel like wearing it and it isn't too outrageous, I do so. My latest projects have been garb for Renaissance Fair/SCA outings, although I have a wonderful piece of velvet in hand (that green that's so dark it casts purple-black highlights when it's rippled), to make a prom dress for my daughter, who I fear has inherited my penchant for creating her own style, only more so. So, you see, the saga continues. I've done a 20's flapper dress (in honest-to-God parachute silk, with fringe), a sort of Empire-style gown, a burnoose, a monk's robes, poet's/pirate's shirts, to name a few. I aspire to more before I quit. That's all, folks. If anyone has references/patterns info. to share, it would be great to see the bibliographic (for books) info., or the addresses and phone info. for catalogs, posted as Troy Shadbolt did his. For books, speaking from a library-person's standpoint, one needs: the author, the title page title in full, the place of publication, the publisher, and the date of publication, and the ISBN or Library of Congress Number can't hurt, either. Thanks & just glad to be here.--cjc ---------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Uebele Subject: Re: My biography, of sorts. Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 14:34:58 PST One more bio. Been sewing about 15-20 years. Got started with halloween costumes, and misc items that were not available in stores. Now I'm mostly focused on 1860-1880 clothing, I do American Civil War and old west reenactments. Mostly focus on mens clothing, and mostly "working mens" clothes rather than fancy clothes. Done a little with ren fair costuming, but not much. Planning on getting involved with earlier American Frontier clothing. Projects right now include an 1870's sack suit (a "ditto" suit), the vest and pants for an 1860's formal (I managed to aqquire the jacket, though I was planning on making one), and another uniform jacket for the civil war reenactment since the first one is getting rather aged. I'm fond of traditional tailoring techniques so I do some hand sewing there, but for basic construction, prefer a sewing machine. I also have a fondness for cloaks, I've made two of the kinsel cloaks. The second one was designed to function as a blanket/sleeping bag as well. Its what I grab in case I want/need something really warm at an event. I also do leather work, and am bouncing around the idea of starting a small business doing historic leather goods items, custom order, etc. Interesting in pattern drafting, just need to find the time and maybe a good class. Frustrated that a lot of the more advanced sewing topics assume woman's clothing. Still waiting for a good book on fitting that is not 90% about bust darts, and yet does not even touch on adjustments for dressing to the right or the left ;-) dave -- Dave Uebele daveu@cisco.com (415) 688-7856 ------------------------------------------------------ From: ejp@watson.ibm.com (Elizabeth J. Poole) Subject: My costuming bio: well, *some* of it. :) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 17:44:50 -0500 I'm Elizabeth Poole, AIX cluster admin, XWindows/C++ hack, and costumer at heart. I started designing ballet costumes for paper dolls when I first heard the Nutcracker Suite (age 5?), moved on to sewing clothes for Barbie dolls when I first got one (age 6?), and started doing historical clothes for dolls *and* people in seventh grade, when I found the book _Costume Through the Ages_ at a library book sale (and when a friend asked if I could make one human-size for her). I've been studying and making costumes as a hobbyist ever since, and had a brief stint as a graduate teaching assistant in the University of Arizona's technical theatre program. If you saw _Amadeus_ there in the mid-80's, you saw my work. The job offers were better for the computer science half of my resume, though, and the smoke in the theatre wing was getting to me. :) I stood a decent shot at being in the book _The Art of the Costumer_, if I'd only kept the photographer up to date on my address, that is. :( But I lost touch after having a swell time at a California CostumeCon. If you saw the four-minute-long "Madame Pompadour gets dressed in the middle of the hallway" bit, you saw me. (And if you have it on tape, let me pay you lots of money for a copy!) But then I got divorced, and moved a lot, and changed jobs a lot, and haven't gotten back to it. Now I'm an hour and a half north of New York City, happily settled and sincerely hoping that this list will tune me in to more costume events locally. My current costume fix is a recreation of Hilliard's _Armada_ portrait, and I *need* somewhere to wear it! Why is all the action on that *other* coast? :) lamented, ejp -------- Elizabeth Poole Yorktown Heights, NY ejp@watson.ibm.com --------------------End of Volume 2--------------------