From: Gretchen Miller Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 18:16:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 7, 11/22/93 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 7, November 29, 1993 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Thanks and Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Dressed to Kill exhibition at Australian National Gallery Questions and answers about books by Janet Arnold De Lilio's antique jewelry store, San Francisco, CA Viking men's clothing at Birkq Copyright questions and answers Biographies continue More on shoe soles Question about padded head rolls Info and addresses for HMSO Jewelry Repair recommendation, San Jose, CA Book Source Questions Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 18:39:58 PST From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: Random Sources Re Sarah Randles' message about the "Dressed to Kill" exhibition at the Australian National Gallery: If this has a catalog with lots of nice pictures, could you post the title and order information? To those who heard Janet Arnold speak recently--did she mention a publication date for the book on Renaissance shirts, chemises, and ruffs mentioned as forthcoming in her Renaissance pattern book? To San Francisco Bay Area residents: Today, after a harrowing morning at the dentist's, I went to De Lilio's antique jewelry store at San Francisco Centre on Market Street. They had a store on Union Street for years and I bought some Art Nouveau pieces from them--cameos, enameled pendants, and suchlike. But until today I'd never been to their new store. When I walked in it looked so big and glitzy I was sure I couldn't afford anything in it. But actually they have a huge selection of jewelry, from early 19th century to Art Deco, at a wide range of prices. Many very nice pieces were affordable to your average middle-class person; things seemed to start at about $50. I bought an Edwardian festoon necklace, silver with four large amethysts--a real ballgown piece--at a price I was quite happy with. Disclaimer: I'm not an employee of De Lilio's. Though maybe I should apply. . . Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 20:59:55 MST From: MORGAN Subject: LURK & BIO Greetings, Gentles! I hope this gets where it's supposed to. The computer gremlins have been particularly active lately. At any rate, a lady asked about shoe soles a few messages ago. From the information I've been able to find, soles were made from leather, cork, wood, felt, etc. I found it rather interesting that the Romans had a version of a hob-nail boot that would not be out of place today. Some one mentioned Margaret (sp?) Hald's book- Excellent source,with most of the shoes having been sketched out for anyone wanting to attempt a pair. Another person asked about glove patterns-if there are any, I'd be delighted to hear sbout them. They seem to belong to the same family as hen's teeth!. A bit about myself- I have done a bit of sewing over the years, nothing fanatical. Just the usual Homemaking class, and a bit on the side. I must admit, though, to doing considerably more since I joined the SCA. Right now, my main time period of interest lies in Northern Wales, A.D. 600-650. Again, the patterns,etc. for clothing are, shall we say, scarce. I do leatherwork, embroidery, and someday I would like to sew a tunic completely by hand. I am currently a student in Mechanical Engineerng, which is *definitly* affecting the time I have to devote to projects.Ah,well. --------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sarah Randles" Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 14:49:35 EST Subject: Re: Random Sources On Tue, 23 Nov 93 18:39:58 PST, Fran Grimble wrote: >Re Sarah Randles' message about the "Dressed to Kill" exhibition at the >Australian National Gallery: If this has a catalog with lots of nice >pictures, could you post the title and order information? > Not a problem. I plan to visit the exhibition some time around Christmas (I live in Sydney, not Canberra, so this is when I'm next likely to get there) and I will post the information and a description of the exhibition to the group unless someone already has. The forward advertising shows some gorgeous bits - Edwardian (?) boots in dark green suede, and a Worth gown to die for. Hopefully the exhibition will live up to this and to my expectations. Sarah S.Randles@uts.edu.au --------------------------------------------------------------- From: J.A.Bray@bnr.co.uk Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 11:04:51 GMT To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Viking men's clothing at Birka hello everyone. I've just finished typing in a translation from German of a chapter about Viking men's clothing at Birka. It's quite long so I don't want to post it on this mailing list as it'll clutter up everyone's buffers and not everyone is going to be interested. Briefly the chapter reports the archaeological finds of men's clothes at Birka. This includes tunics, kaftans, hats and caps, and a few scant remains of leggings attached to the hooks and rings that held the up. It decribes some really disgustingly filthy rich headgear like one cap that had ornaments in silver around a core of gilded leather sewn onto gilded chinese silk damask. Somehow I don't think I'm going to be reproducing that one in the original materials! Particularly since most of the caps seem to have come with a matching kaftan, that's an awful lot of precious metal by my standards. Anyway if anyone wants me to email them a copy of the chapter drop me a note at J.A.Bray@bnr.co.uk By the way does anyone know about the copyright rules on translations? I don't think I'm doing the authors any harm since you don't get the pictures, so anyone looking at the translation who is seriously interested is going to want to rush out and find the original. So a translation of one chapter is more likely to function as an advert for the original than a replacement, but I would be interested to know what the rules on translations are. I suspect that you have to summarise or something to be completely legitimate? Jennifer --------------------------------------------------------------- From: MMS6824@tntech.edu Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 07:42:47 -0600 (CST) Subject: Padded rolls and bio. Hello, I think I will start with my question. When were padded (head) rolls used? I have seen them worn with several types of costumes from Late Eastern Roman Empire to Italian Renn. and with just about anything in between. It is a lovely style, but I would really like to know its proper time and place. BIO: I have been interested in historic costume most of my life, about 7 years ago I joined the SCA and have been busy ever since. Mary Spila (SCA: Marian O'Liam, Clann Kyle) Librarian Internet: mms6824@tntech.edu --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed 24 Nov 1993 07:09 PT Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 17:55:26 WST From: dawn@babel.DIALix.oz.au (Dawn Elson) Subject: Janet Arnold..new book? Greetings fellow costume buffs Having discovered this treasure of a mailing list I thought I would ask a question that has been bothering me. Some time ago a friend showed me a copy of Janet Arnold's "Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked", beautiful book. I heard that Ms Arnold was in the process of writing another book on a similar scale to this one but covering an earlier period, let it be so! Does anyone know of such a book? I'll add my bio to the group: I have been sewing since I can remember. In the early days that meant hessian samplers, dolls clothes and fully dressed pipecleaner dolls. I graduated to real clothes in high school and in my Uni days made lots of stuff to wear, mostly from patterns. I have always had an interest in historical costume when I discovered the SCA I finally had a chance to make and wear some of the wonderful styles that I had coveted. The costumes that I am reasonably happy with my research for are 15th century Italian and German made for myself and my husband. I am discovering the challenge and frustration(satisfaction when they work) of making my own patterns. I have made some shoes but I have a lot to learn. I have a particular interest in the bags, pouches, purses and pockets of various periods but there are a lot of holes in my research. I am only just learning the importance of writing everything down that I find- how I wish I had learned this lesson earlier, I have lost so much information. Most of my work is done for SCA use simply because I can USE it but I am interested in other periods. My wedding dress was an early Edwardian ball gown. ( I am known in the SCA as Eibhleann O'Ceileachair but I will change that shortly) Looking forward to more discussion -- -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Dawn Elson these words are too solid they don't move fast enough to catch the blur in the brain dawn@babel.DIALix.oz.au that flies by and is gone.(Vega) -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 11:16:14 PST From: donna@Kwantlen.BC.CA (Donna Hrynkiw) Subject: HMSO / Shoes and Pattens address I've had a number of requests for the HMSO address and information concerning the 'Shoes and Pattens' book: HMSO's agent in the U.S. is: Unipub 4611-F Assembly Drive Lanham, MD 20706-4391 A couple of years ago I had an 800 number for them, but have lost it. You might try the 800 operator if you're impatient. :-) I have in front of me the "Museums and Galleries" catalogue, "Secional List No. 73, Revised January 1990". I received this less than a month ago so I suspect either I was fobbed off with an old copy, or they haven't bothered to update this particular catalogue. Museum of London -- Medieval Small Finds from Excavations in London 1. Knives and Scabbards - J Cowgill, M de Neergard and N Griffiths -- 1987 -- 0-11-290440-8 -- #10.95 2. Shoes and Pattens - F Grewe and M de Neergaard [hmm. different spelling from above.] -- 1988 -- 0-11-290443-2 -- #11.95 3. Dress Accessories -- 1990 -- 0-11-290444-0 - c. #25.00 (To publish autumn 1990) [The "c." in front of the #25.00 means at the time they estimated the price would be about 25 pounds. The copy I purchased was marked #39.00 on the back cover.] 4. Textiles -- 1990 -- 0-11-290445-9 (To publish autumn 1990) If you want to write to HMSO directly: HMSO Books PO Box 276 London SW8 5DT England Phone (24 hrs. queuing system) 071-873-9090 Telex (24 hrs) 297138 Fax for orders (24 hrs) 071-873-8200 They take Access/Visa/Connect/American Express; have the expiry date available. In one place it says "Post and Packing Free!" -- and in small print "All publications ordered from HMSO will be despatched post-free by first class post or carrier within the United Kingdom and by the cheapest surface rates overseas. Customers wishing despatch by other methods will be charged in full at the appropriate rates." Donna Hrynkiw donna@kwantlen.bc.ca --------------------------------------------------------------- From: sclark@epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark) Subject: Janet Arnold's new book.... To: h-costume+@andrew.cmu.edu Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 19:52:09 -0500 (EST) Hello all.... When Miss Arnold gave her lectures here in Toronto, she mentioned that the next two installments in the _Patterns of Fashion_ series would finally be coming out soon. One is on shirts and accessories, 16th-17th century, and the other is on 17th century clothing made by tailors. She did not mention another work on the scale of _Q.E.'s Wardrobe Unlock'd_.... Cheers! Susan Carroll-Clark University of Toronto sclark@epas.utoronto.ca --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 19:23:25 PST From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: Copyright Law Jennifer Bray asked whether it is legal to publish (net distribution is a form of publication) a translation from German of someone else's work without permission of the copyright holder (who may or may not be the author). I'm quoting from U.S. law, but copyright law is supposed to be international. The short answer is: No! The long answer is: Both unpublished and published works are copyright from the moment of creation, though it's safest to register the copyright. Copyright is actually a bundle of rights that includes rights to derivative works, such as translations. These rights can be sold, and the sales can add up to signifcant income for the author (writing in general does not pay well). It is illegal to create a derivative work without the permission of the creator of the original work, or if that person has already sold translation rights, the permission of the new copyright holder. The copyright holder is legally entitled to sue to protect his/her rights. It doesn't matter whether you think the copyright holder will be harmed or not. The illustrations may well have a separate copyright from the text. Also, even portions of the text are copyright. If you write an article that includes a few paragraphs, or in some cases a few sentences, of someone else's work, but the rest of the article is entirely original, you are still violating copyright law. Paraphrasing is also a violation if the wording is sufficiently close to the original. I'm touchy on this subject because a few years ago someone violated one of my copyrights. The last issue of Vintage Fashions magazine, which I wrote for often, published an article on the history of sewing patterns that was almost identical to one of mine Sew News had published two years earlier. It was a 2,000-word article and only about one word per paragraph had been changed. I took immediate legal action and won an out-of-court settlement. Fran --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 Nov 1993 23:15:50 -0800 (PST) From: Marjorie Subject: de Lilio's jewelery Hello.... Fran Gribble (did I get that right, no "copy & paste" in this system) mentioned de Lilio's Jewelery in SF....sounds good, but for out-of towners (i'm in Sunnyvale & don't get up a lot), what is "SF Centre" and what's the nearest cross street?j Also, Fran (or other locals) -- if you need a piece fixed at a *reasonable* price, Grant's Jewelers on First St. in San Jose (right across from Woolworth's) is GREAT -- and *they* *will* *tell* you if it isn't worth fixing....or fix a "junk" piece you absolutely MUST wear. Tell 'em Marjorie sent you: it's a family business and I send all my friends there! One of the first things I took in was a watch pin: Victorian JUNK, but SO classy for my watch. It's hollow, with a soldered-on back to which the pin is attatched. I was told it wasn't worth soldering, since the heat would melt all the old solder and it would fall apart. Best thing was to take it home and epoxy it within an inch of its life: I did so, and four years later still enjoy using the pin. They also do custom work, but that is *slow.* worth waiting for... but slow. Also they do watch repairs; my 1914 ladies' pocket watch runs wonderfully since I've been taking it there. I'm no employee, either< ;-) > -- but know a good thing when I see it! Thanks for the tip, Fran, next time I'm up I'll check de Lilio's! ===Marjorie --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Nov 93 22:16:03 PST From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: De Lilio's, etc. Marjorie asked for De Lilio's address. De Lilio's is on the first floor of San Francisco Centre, 865 Market Street, approximately Market and Powell; that is, right smack downtown. San Francisco Centre is a six-floor, upscale urban mall. It also contains the Basset bookstore, which is three floors tall. The first floor of Basset's has a large art section with lots of books of portraits. There's an okay fashion/costume/textiles section across the aisle from the art section. And there are largish antiques and sewing/crafts sections. I wasn't impressed by Basset's special-order department but I only tried to use it once. San Francisco Centre also has a Kenneth Cole shoestore, which currently features some smashing Victorian-style shoes and boots. Nordstrom's, which occupies the top three floors of the Centre, has some of the same styles. Thanks for recommending a jeweler who repairs vintage pieces--a lot of jewelers don't like to deal with them. Another good repair place is Lee Frank Jewelers at 2200 Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley. They don't sell vintage jewelry though. For the world in general, I have two questions about book sources: * Does anybody know how to get hold of a copy of Elizabeth Birbari's Dress in Italian Painting? * There are two books on Renaissance Spanish clothing, by an author whose name begins with A, published by the Hispanic Society. Unfortunately I don't have the author's name and book titles handy. I found them by browsing through the "Costume" section in the Subject Guide to Books in Print--an interesting way to shop. Is anyone familiar with these books, and especially how/where to buy them? Basset's was unenthused about ordering from a publisher they didn't deal with regularly. If no one replies to this query I will understand. I hate it when people ask vague questions on the net--and here I am doing it. Fran --------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sarah Randles" Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 10:00:48 EST To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: De Lilio's, etc. On Sat, 27 Nov 93 22:16:03 PST, Fran wrote: >For the world in general, I have two questions about book sources: > >* Does anybody know how to get hold of a copy of Elizabeth Birbari's Dress >in Italian Painting? I don't know, and I was told by my uni library that it was out of print. But if you find it in books in print there is hope. Can I also get this info? > >* There are two books on Renaissance Spanish clothing, by an author whose >name begins with A, published by the Hispanic Society. Unfortunately I >don't have the author's name and book titles handy. I found them by >browsing through the "Costume" section in the Subject Guide to Books in >Print--an interesting way to shop. Is anyone familiar with these books, and >especially how/where to buy them? Basset's was unenthused about ordering >from a publisher they didn't deal with regularly. > One of these is Ruth Matilda Anderson, Hispanic Costume 1480 to 1530, Published by the Hispanic Society, 1979, ISBN 87535-126-3. I'd also like to get details of the other. Perhaps we could have a bibliography as a regular post - perhaps arranged by period, with short annotations? Sarah Randles S.Randles@uts.edu.au --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Nov 1993 00:27:37 -0800 (PST) From: Marjorie wilser Subject: re:DeLilio's/Fran's answer Fran ("aterry"), Thanks for DeLilio's address. The very *thought* of Bassett's books maks me drool....;-) for ordering books you can't live without -- try the U/SF student bookstore. I've gotten very good results with university bookstores -- I'm a student at San Jose state., but you don't *have* to be a student to benefit. If their supplier can get it, they will order. No problem. good luck on the spanish books. They sound great! On another tack;;;; has anyone heard of a "pretty" reprint of "Ancient Costumes of Great Britain and Ireland," by Charles Hamilton Smith, first published c. 1814? The reprint is by Bracken Books, (London), 1989. As a historian (but not a pro costumer), I wonder about his sources and accuracy. Anyone care to comment? I got it used, so I won't freak if the reviews aren't good . ==Marjorie --------------------------------------------------------------- From: J.A.Bray@bnr.co.uk Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 09:11:08 GMT To: h-costume@ANDREW.CMU.EDU Subject: Ancient costumes of G.B. & Ireland I've seen this one going cheap in the remaindered book stores I saw the title and thought "great just what I want" Then I opened it up and decided there was more historical accuracy in the dungeons and dragons books! It looked like the sort of book that draws vikings with horns on their helmets. That is a first impression since I didn't bother getting it, it did have lots of pretty pictures, so I daresay it would be good for general inspiration if not for accurate detail. Jennifer --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 11:48:33 -0800 (PST) From: "Lizbeth Langston, UCR Physical Sciences Library" Subject: intro Hello, everyone-- I'm Lizbeth Langston. My main focus is on vintage dance (particularly Renaissance & Ragtime) plus contemporary contradance. Thus I'm interested in the proper clothing for dancers. On the practical side I am particularly interested in shoes & have started to construct my own. More theoretically, I am interested in the constraints on dancers' movements caused by the restrictions of the clothing they are wearing. I work as a librarian & am working on a degree in Comparative Literature. Yes, I'm in the SCA (Lizbeth Ravensholm, Caid) & have a Renaissance dance group that sporadically performs. I am enjoying this list. Thanks to all who are contributing. ------------------------End of Volume 7-----------------------------------