From: Gretchen Miller <grm+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Wed,  1 Dec 1993 18:45:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 10, 12/1/93 

The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 10, December 1, 1993

Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message).

Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to
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For archives of this digest, send mail to close@lunch.asd.sgi.com

Thanks and Enjoy!

---------------------------------------------------------------
Topics:

Lacework found at Birka
Question and answers about SCA
More on dress forms
The making of corn dollies
Edging for Blackwork Embroidery

----------------------------------------------
From: J.A.Bray@bnr.co.uk
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 13:45:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Folkwear, lace

A while back Leslie asked me about some lacework done in metallic
threads and drawn wire which was found at Birka. I finally got round to
digging outthe book.

The book describing the finds of this stuff is "BIRKA III Die
Textilfunde" the author was Agnes Geijer and it was published in 1938 in
Uppsala by Almqvist Wiksells Boktryckeri-Aktiebolag.

The book describes finds from a viking cemetary associated with the rich
trading settlement at Birka. The text is all in German, plates at the
back show the more interesting remains, & there are some diagrams in the
text. 

Lots of the lacework is just knots and plaits, but there are also some
figures which look like stags facing backwards. At the edges of the stag
figures the wire makes little rings that suggest to me that the figures
were worked around pins perhaps like a sort of simple honiton lace.

There is also some ornamentation that looks like nadlebinding to me.
It's an open mesh worked in rows and reminds me of the finds at Mammen
(Bjerringhoj) described by Margrethe Hald in her book on ancient Danish
Textiles.

There are metal wire ornaments that look as if they are made like corn
dollies with a series of wires being folded around a core to build up a
sort of basket work cover for the core. I have seen contemporary wire
bracelets made in this technique, so it is likely that these ornaments
are made out of a corn dolly plait (I know a lot of this group are in
the U.S.A. do you have corn dollies?)

There are also coins wrapped up in twisted wire with a border of wire
that looks like flower petals. these look as if they were sewn onto
something along with the corn dollie things. Perhaps in the same way
that some eastern European and northern indian tribes decorated their
shirts with rows of coins?

The same book describes finds of tablet weaving, using gold and silver brocade.

Jennifer

----------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1993 09:37:19 EST
From: "Zoe: Coombs" <coombs@bigvax.alfred.edu>
Subject: SCA?

I'm very much of an amateur in this field (not realizing it *was* a
field before the creation of this list <smile>) so naturally, I've been
lurking via the digest.  So I'm curious----what *is* the SCA?  Judging
from aliases, maybe the C stands for celtic???  (yes, I'm working on a
bio--I'll send it one of these days :-)  )
  ..
Zoe
coombs@bigvax.alfred.edu
Alfred, N.Y.

----------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 10:11:40 -0500
From: eliz@world.std.com (Elizabeth Lear Newman)
Subject: Re: SCA?

<So I'm curious----what *is* the SCA?  Judging from aliases,
<maybe the C stands for celtic??? 

The SCA is The Society for Creative Anachronism, an international
non-profit educational organization dedicated to researching and
re-creating all aspects (artistic, martial, etc) of the period between
roughly 600AD and 1600AD.  We get together for guild meetings, classes,
practices, and social gatherings (called "events"), and naturally we
need clothing to wear at these events!  That's why I'm not surprised
you'll see a lot of SCA people on this list.

     ...eliz
     Yelizaveta Medvedeva
     Barony of Carolingia, EK

----------------------------------------------
From: ritchiek@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: AN EXPLANATION: SCA
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 10:35:38 EST

 Zoe Coombs asked What is SCA.  Does the C stand for Celtic? Well not
exactly.  SCA stands for Society for Creative Anachronism. We are an
educational non profit organization who study and reenact the middle
ages not necessarily exactly as they were but more how some think they
should have been. (We try to leave out the social and political nasties)
Our time period covers roughly from the Fall of the Roman Empire to the
Death of Queen Elizabeth I.  Not everyone is a costumer in the SCA but
everyone wears some sort of "Garb"  this is what we call the clothes we
wear to events because it is card to consider them just costumes.
Especially when you wear this kind of clothes for a whole week at
Pennsic war-A really major event held in penn. with primitive camping,
Battles, masked balls ect. ect.  Hope no one is offended by this
description There is alot more to the SCA but this is not the place to
discuss it. If anyone wants to find out more subscribe to rec.org.sca. 
Oh yeah there are Celts in the SCA but there are also just about every
other european and some non-european cultures represented as well.  My
Lord has a sixth century celtic persona while I have a 14th century
German persona. -Karen Ritchie or Isabeau Pferdebandiger

----------------------------------------------
From: DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1993 10:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCA

SCA stands for Society for Creative Anachronism, which is a medieval & 
Renaissance re-creation society (for those of us who take it seriously) 
and a fantasy interpretation of the middle ages and Renaissance for those 
who don't (the people with personae like "I'm a wandering trim-and-dagger 
merchant from Mongolia stolen by gypsies as a child from Ireland").

Those of us who take it seriously do research and create costumes and
other artifacts that are the best we can do to re-create actual items
from the period.  We do extensive research (I've been doing research on
16th c. Turkish clothing for almost 4 years now, in the best library of
middle and near eastern art materials in the US), spend a lot of time
studying how garments were cut, how they fit, the fabrics and tailoring
techniques used, and how to appropriately embellish and finish outfits
(including shoes, hats, underpinnings, etc.).  We are referred to as
"authenticity mavens" or, somewhat derrogatively, as "authenticity
police".  

Those who favor the fantasy interpretation tend to wear black satin
pirate shirts with spandex running tights (the male version), or red
satin peasant blouses with mid-calf length tiered peasant skirts with a
strapless heavy leather corselett that completel exposes the breasts
with the lowest possible neckline on the blouse (the female version).

Well, it's not quite that bad... But close.  The SCA does tend to be
divided into those two groupings, with a small but significant portion
sitting the fence between.

The SCA covers the period fromt he fall of Rome (approx. 450 AD) to 1600
or 1650, depending on which person you listen to.  Celts, Viking, and
Mongol personae tend to be popular with the "barbarian" crowd, while
Italian Ren, Elizabethan and Cavalier tend to be the popular periods for
the "late period" crowds.

What do we do?  Foot combat, rapier combat, cooking, embroidery,
costuming, brewing, armouring, woodworking, fiber arts (spinning,
weaving, etc.) -- anything that occured in the period covered.  If it
was done somewhere in the western world during that period (and, to a
much smaller extent, the far east), somewhere, someone in the SCA is
doing it now.

I have been in the SCA for about 13 years, but have a much broader
interest in historic costume in general.  I hope I've answered your
question.

Denise Zaccagnino
(known as Lady Deonora Ridenow in the SCA)

----------------------------------------------
From: WALTER@tandem.physics.upenn.edu
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 11:39 EDT
Subject: dress forms

Hi there, I am hoping to get in touch with the person who posted a
couple of week ago about the "Uniquely You" dress form.  I have got my
husband convinced to buy me a dress form for Christmas, and this sounds
like it might be the form for me.  My only question is:  the ads I have
seen for this form give size ranges for hip, waist, bust.  If I add some
padding I believe I can get a small.  My shoulders, however, are very
narrow (13", point of shouder to point of shoulder).  Will I be able to
make the dress form reflect this?  (I have the most awful figure -- very
narrow shouders, smallish bust, HUGE hips -- there's a four pattern size
difference between my shoulders and my hips -- you can see why I want a
dress form, NOTHING fits wihout a lot of effort on my part). Please
advise.

 I have, for the record, tried the thing where you body-cast yourself
and pour expanding foam into the cast.  While the cast was OK, (a cold,
wet, nasty process) the foam stuff shrunk and decayed over the course of
about a year, producing a dress form that was not recognizable as a
human figure.  We didn't buy the foam from the woman who sells the
casting kits (I _cannot_ remember her name -- she advertises in Threads,
and we bought the kit from her), we did buy the foam ingredients she
recommended. Anyway, I don't want to do that again.  I want a real dress
form that will not shrivel away, that I can put a corset on, and that
will fit my short, round self. (And that costs less that $150.00)  Any
other recommendations out there?

Thanks,

Karen Walter
walter@tandem.physics.upenn.edu

----------------------------------------------
From: J.A.Bray@bnr.co.uk
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 17:03:41 GMT
Subject: corn dollies & wire ornaments

Teena Tuttle <ttuttle@unr.edu> asked me to describe corn dollies after I
mentioned them in the context of viking textiles at Birka:

These are ornaments made of plaited wheat which traditionally were
produced in the British Isles from the first sheaf of wheat of the
harveste There are marked variations between dollies from different
english counties. Some say the dolly kept the spirit of the corn alive
through the winter. there are many folk customs associated with the
dollies.

The corn dolly plait is made as follows:

take about a dozen pieces of straw (You can do this with paper drinking
straws if you want to experiment, the ornaments were done with wire
instead of straw, if you use wheat straw you will need to soak it to
make it flexible)

gather all but five pieces together into a bundle (if you are using wire
just use a thicker piece of wire instead of a bundle of small wires)
This bundle is the core around which you will plait. tie the core
together at both ends with another piece of straw or wire wrapped round
it.

tie the remaining five straws/wires to one end of the core and bend them
out so that they stick out at right angles evenly spaced around the four
points of a compass with two straws/wires together at one point.

top view:   |
           -0=
            |
where 0 is the core - and | are single straws/wires and = is two together

Think of your plaiting straws/wires as labelled from 1 to 5 starting and
finishing with one of the pair of straws/wires. 

Take number 1 and bend it close to the core so that it crosses over number 2
then bend number 2 round 1 and close to the core so that it crosses number3
then bend number 3 round 2 and close to the core so that it crosses number4
then bend number 4 round 3 and close to the core so that it crosses number5
number 5 carries on around 3 and over 1, then you're back to the start

keep going and you will get a four sided spiral rising up the core.

The Vikings used this technique to make silver wire bracelets. finds of
costume ornament at Birka look as if they were done with a similar plait
but with only four wires plaiting, this gives a three sided spiral. The
spiral can be straightened out to give a plait which is triangular in
cross section. two plaits were bent into ovals then joined together to
make a sort of open squashed sphere which was then sewn onto clothing

I could be wrong about the Birka stuff because the photo I've got isn't
very clear, it could have been some other plaiting technique being used,
but I'm sure about the bracelets because I've seen museum exhibits which
were clearly made using this technique.

I haven't seen any jewellery or clothing using this technique less than
a millenium old, and I have no idea why it died out for bracelets but
kept going for corn dollies.

Maybe it didn't die out, does anyone know of more recent dress ornament
or jewellery made of plaited wire?

Corn Dollies made with this plait can be made without a core, sometimes
the plait is enlarged into bells and odd bulges, small plaits are
twisted into hearts and other shapes, often ears of wheat are left on as
decorative embellishments. Horn shapes are made from the plaits and
filled with ears of wheat to make horns of plenty, there are many
variations. (corn dollys are not dolls as in representations of humans.)

When a straw runs out another one is just joined on by poking one
straw's tip into the hollow base of the other, (to do this with drinking
straws you have to squash one straw to get the narrow tip) With wire you
start off with longer pieces and don't need to join.

America grows so much wheat I'm amazed you don't have corn dollies at
all. There's probably someone somewhere making them over there.

----------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 10:25:02 -0600 (CST)
From: "Lee Forgue" <eilis@haas.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: SCA

In message Wed, 01 Dec 1993 10:33:25 -0400 (EDT),
  DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu  writes:

> Those of us who take it seriously do research and create costumes and
> other artifacts that are the best we can do to re-create actual items
> from the period.  <...snip...>  We are referred to as
> "authenticity mavens" or, somewhat derrogatively, as "authenticity
> police".
>
> Those who favor the fantasy interpretation tend to wear black satin
> pirate shirts with spandex running tights (the male version), or red
> satin peasant blouses with mid-calf length tiered peasant skirts with a
> strapless heavy leather corselett that completel exposes the breasts with
> the lowest possible neckline on the blouse (the female version).
>
> Well, it's not quite that bad... But close.  The SCA does tend to be
> divided into those two groupings, with a small but significant portion
> sitting the fence between.

Denise/Deonora --

Don't make generalizations about the entire SCA based on the part of it
you are familiar with, please.  Especially not in a group which, by its
very nature, contains people who might be interested in what we do.

If your address is a correct indicator, you are in Boston/Carolingia. 
I've never been there, or anywhere else in the East, in an SCA context. 
However, in the Mists/Bay Area, and in the West in general, we do not
have many spandex pirates.  We have a lot of Saxon/Norman types, a few
people who are slow to get clued and keep showing up in modified prom
dresses, and some really excellent costumers whose work spans the entire
period.  And I've never seen anyone in elf ears, which I understand were
seen at Pennsic. (Geoffrey of Griffinhold once showed up in plastic elf
feet, but they were
green, so he couldn't help it.)

Sorry if I sound hostile, but your post seemed bitter and divisive, and
hit one of my buttons.

  --- eilis o'boirne/Lee Forgue

----------------------------------------------
From: close@lunch.asd.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close)
Subject: Re:  SCA [actually administrativia on SCA discussions]
To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (Historic Costume)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 10:32:32 -0800 (PST)

> > Those of us who take it seriously do research and create costumes and
> > other artifacts that are the best we can do to re-create actual items
> 
> Don't make generalizations about the entire SCA based on the part of it you
> are familiar with, please.  Especially not in a group which, by its very

Ahem.  Sorry to be such an early party pooper, but general discussions
about the SCA have no place on this list.  I realize that you people are
simply responding to a question raised by one of the other list members,
but I feel that question has been answered and this discussion should be
taken to e-mail or rec.org.sca.  As the welcome message states:  "[...
lots deleted ...]  Members of the SCA should note that this list
discusses historic costume of all eras, not just the SCA period. 
General conversations about the SCA are not suitable for this list; for
those, stick to rec.org.sca."

Again, sorry to be such a stick-in-the-mud but somebody has to be the
"heavy" for these types of things!  :-D  And now, back to our regularly
scheduled discussions!
-- 
Diane Barlow Close
 close@lunch.asd.sgi.com
 I'm at lunch today.  :-)

----------------------------------------------
From: ejp@watson.ibm.com (Elizabeth J. Poole)
Subject: Re: dress forms
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 93 14:02:33 -0500

WALTER@tandem.physics.upenn.edu  writes:
> Hi there, I am hoping to get in touch with the person who posted a couple
> of week ago about the "Uniquely You" dress form.
>
Probably me.  :)

> might be the form for me.  My only question is:  the ads I have seen for
> this form give size ranges for hip, waist, bust.  If I add some padding
> I believe I can get a small.  My shoulders, however, are very narrow
> (13", point of shouder to point of shoulder).
>
Tell *me* your measurements, privately to ejp@watson.ibm.com if you
like. (I don't mean dress sizes, either, I mean measurements.)  When I
said the XS UY came looking like Elizabeth Taylor out of the box, I
wasn't kidding. (Diane Close clocked the knockers on her XS at 44D, and
that's about right.) Dress sizes for me, for example, range from a 0 to
a 12, depending on the maker, year, and cut.  My XS UY worked fine, with
a couple of shoulder pads stuffed in to fill out the shoulders.  (Can
you guess which part of me is the 12?  :)

> want a dress form, NOTHING fits wihout a lot of effort on my part).
> Please advise.
>
Big grin.  The UY was the ONLY form I could get to deal with my high
waist and straight shoulders.  None of the fixed-body forms did that at
all. AND the UY can cope with corsets -- it's the only form I know of
that can.

Call your local JoAnn's, Hancock's, or New York Fabrics, and see if
their UYs are on the $99 sale this week, or anytime during December. 
That way, your darling husband can get you a $50 fabric gift
certificate, too.  :) UYs are usually in the $130-$160 range at stores.

I feel like doing a dress form FAQ.  Anyone with opinions, hints, tips,
love, hates, feel free to send info to me, and I'll also stick in as
many of the care-and-feeding-of-your-UY pointers as I can remember. I'll
collect and summarize the high points in January.

cheers, ejp
Elizabeth Poole         Yorktown Heights, NY         ejp@watson.ibm.com

----------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 93 14:35:51 EST
From: suedown@MIT.EDU (Sue Downing)
Subject: enuf already! with the SCA discussion

isn't that part of the by-rules of this list...?
--Sue D.

----------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: SCA 
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1993 14:54:42 -0500
From: Elizabeth Lear Newman <eliz@world.std.com>

I *am* in the Barony of Carolingia, as Denora is, and I don't know where
she was that soured her opinion but I feel it wasn't here.  My
impression after several years is that the majority of the SCA are the
"fence sitters" - those who know what they should look like, are willing
to do some research and make patterns or buy something, and end up with
a very good effort.  Some of the items are superb, most are at least
quite good.  The "authenticity mavens/police" are by no means a
majority, nor are the people who don't quite get what we do and
therefore show up in inauthentic clothing or garb made from
inappropriate materials.

I'm hoping we're not giving the wrong impression of the SCA to people
who aren't familiar with what we do.  If we weren't interested in doing
things right, we sure wouldn't be on this mailing list!  In fact,
Denora, I hope you are pleased with the number of SCAdians on this list
- it means they are all interested in making the most authentic items
they can, and the best way to influence the people whom you consider the
"spandex pirates" is to set an example.

      ...eliz
      Yelizaveta Medvedeva

----------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 07:35:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Teresa Whitlock <teresa@wndrsvr.la.ca.us>
Subject: Edging for Blackwork Embroidery

I have been working on putting blackwork on a shirt for an SCA outfit.
But I have a question for which I have been unable to find a suitable
answer.

In the paintings of Hans Holbein, you can see that the cuffs and collars
of the shirts/chemises are all edged with a particualr stitch.  Does
anyone know what that stitch is?

In addition, I am looking for a good modern reprentation of 15th century
lawn.  Has anyone done any research in this area?

Thanks...

Teresa

----------------------------------------------
From: DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1993 16:13:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Edging for Blackwork Emb.

Janet Arnold has does 2 excellent articles on shirts:  Elizabethan and
Jacobean Smocks and Shirts (Waffen-und Kostumkunde Pt. 2 (1973), pp.
109-124) and Three Examples of Late Sixteenth-early Seventeenth C.
Neckwear (Waffen-und Kostumkunde Pt. 2 (1977), pp. 89-110.  In these
articles (I don't remember which one; it's been a while since I read
them), she notes that the fine line of black at the top and bottom of
blackwork bands is actually a fine cord (sometimes lucetted) made of
black silk, which extends beyond the collar to become the ties.

Arnold works only from extant pieces, so the variety of shirts/smocks
she's had access to is limited.  Some of the pieces in period MAY have
had some form of embroidery.  The one which have a very fine line of
black along the edges of the ruffles may possibly have been embroidered,
although it was not unknow for cord to be applied as decoration to such
edges.

I have copies of both of these articles if you're interested.

Deonora Ridenow/Denise Zaccagnino

----------------------------------------------
From: "Sarah Randles" <S.Randles@uts.EDU.AU>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 09:28:58 EST
Subject: Re: AN EXPLANATION: SCA

  Not everyone is a costumer
>in the SCA but everyone wears some sort of "Garb"  this is what we call the
>clothes we wear to events because it is card to consider them just costumes.

Not meaning to be picky, but there are some of us who don't like the use
of the word garb to describe medieval and renaissance costume.  The
reason is that the word "garb" is not used in that period to mean
costume or dress. In fact the only meaning that I know about that is
period is a sheaf of wheat!  The terms costume, clothing or dress are,
however, period.

Sarah Randles
S.Randles@uts.edu.au

----------------------------------------------
From: "Sarah Randles" <S.Randles@uts.EDU.AU>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 09:50:40 EST
To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Edging for Blackwork Embroidery

On Wed, 1 Dec 1993 07:35:08 -0700 (PDT, Teresa Whitlock wrote:

>I have been working on putting blackwork on a shirt for an SCA outfit. 
>But I have a question for which I have been unable to find a suitable answer.
>
>In the paintings of Hans Holbein, you can see that the cuffs and collars
>of the shirts/chemises are all edged with a particualr stitch.  Does
>anyone know what that stitch is?

I spent three days in the embroidery room at the V&A a couple of years
ago, with a magnifying glass, no less.  The edging appears to be closely
packed buttonhole stitch, usually done over a rolled edge.  This means
that for cuffs etc done in Holbein stitch, there is no need to line the
cuff and the reversibility of the stitch can be displayed (As in the
Jane Seymour portrait).

Sarah Randles
S.Randles@uts.edu.au

----------------------------------------------
From: vjohnson@mipos3.intel.com (Valeri Johnson)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 15:07:23 PST
Subject: RE: SCA

Gee, I thought Denora was rather tongue-in-cheek with just a touch of
sarcasm about the spandex. It's very difficult to ascertain just the
perfect tone and inflection even with smiley/frowney faces.

If we all have to worry about stating an opinion, no-one would post, so
please don't beat her up too much. 

Let's get on with the party!

Valeri

******************************************************************************
*                                                *                           *
*  Old Chinese Saying:                           * Valeri Johnson            *
*      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time * vjohnson@mipos3.intel.com *
*                                                *                           *
******************************************************************************

------------------------End of Volume 10-----------------------------------