From: Gretchen Miller Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 18:57:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 106, 6/3/94 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 106, June 3, 1994 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu To get an index of available back issues of the digest, send a message with the words: index h-costume in the body of the message, to majordomo@lunch.asd.sgi.com. Then use the command: get h-costume hcos.yymmdd to retrieve the volumes you want. Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Book advice thanks Seeking: "Handbook of Stitches" Question and answers: Colonial American clothing Wimples Question and answer: Wigs Shoes More on soc.history.living Announcement: Costume and dance workshop, SF Bay area ---------------------------- Subject: thanks- book advice Date: Tue, 31 May 94 18:09:47 PDT From: elizabeth Hello to all- -and special thanks to Stella, Diane, Norah, Sarah, Dianna, Linda, and Denise for their comments on _From the Neck Up_ and _Draping and Designing With Scissors and Cloth_. :) If anyone is ever interested in some reviews of the same, y'all know where to find me. cheers, beth *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* emiles@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 18:50:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Dianne Karp Subject: book search I am looking for a copy of a book entitled "Handbook of Stitches" by Grete Petersen and Elsie Svennas. It was published by Van Nostrand Reinhol Co. , NY. I'm not sure when it was published but I think it was in the early part of this century. I have a Xerox of some of the pages but would like to buy the entire book if I can find it. Thanks. Dianne ---------------------------- From: KeziaK@aol.com Date: Wed, 01 Jun 94 07:34:43 EDT Subject: historical costume group Hello -- I am looking for information via this group about clothing in colonial America. This is in support of a novel I am writing. I've done extensive research on this topic, but I'm having trouble internalizing the information. For example, I can't quite picture how all the parts of a woman's costume were put on, or taken off. If anyone would like to chat about this, I would be thrilled. Or, perhaps someone could explain to me how to find back issues of this list which would help me out. Thank you! Beth ---------------------------- From: J.A.Bray@bnr.co.uk Date: Wed, 1 Jun 94 13:33:44 BST Subject: Re: Wimples If you manage to find any documentation for wimples I'd be interested to know about it. I've seen a sewn version worn which is basically a cone of cloth with the point of the cone missing. The face sticks through the hole in the top of the cone and the rest drapes over the shoulders. I was told that this was based on an original which was pinned, but nobody knew where the original was from, so maybe someone just invented it. The only surviving women's headgear I know of from around that period is a number of silk caps from Viking settlements in York Dublin and lincoln, a sprang hairnet from tenth century layers in dublin, and assorted gold brocaded tablet woven bands found around the skulls in high status female burials. Maybe the gold bands held something like a wimple in place? I seem to recall several layers in some of the headgear pictured in Gale Owen Crocker's book "dress in anglo saxon england" (or something like that I'm not sure if I've remembered the title right) maybe there was a tight fitting wimple with a floating veil over the top? I'd have to go home & take another look at the book to be sure: it's a while since I've looked at the relevant section. Does anyone know how Nun's wimples are made. A lot of ecclesiastical costume seems to have stayed essentially the same for hundreds of years so maybe Nun's wimples could give us a clue? Jennifer ---------------------------- From: JLIEDL@nickel.laurentian.ca Date: Wed, 01 Jun 1994 10:50:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Wimples I've done a lot of study, reading and examination on the subject of wimples and I've yet to be convinced that the "hole in the piece of cloth for your face to go through" method has any redeeming features whatsoever! Studying statuary, miniatures, etc. you can discern fold lines and stress lines depicted in the fabric. This seems more consistent with using fabric to wrap under the chin and fasten behind the head and above. I suggest folding the fabric on the bias for best effect. Diagram below: \@@@@ / \@@@ ` / \@@ ` & \ l l \ > l \ - l \i l --/ l \ l \ Where the bias runs parallel to the diagonal from chin to back of head. I often hem a large rectangle then fold it diagonally, wrap and pin as shown then top it with another set of folded linen for an early fourteenth century look. (I'm still aiming for the day when I can find/weave my own linen with a tight selvedge to get that ruffled look so popular in the latter fourteenth century in England). Some costumiing books suggest a fine gradation of wimpling (widows or baron's wives were supposed to cover their chin when wimpling; unmarried women or women of lower rank to leave their chins visible). I have seen no definitive documentation from the period 1100 onwards to support that--but you might have luck running through studies on sumptuary laws for further discussion on the issue. -------------------------------- Janice Liedl, Dept. of History "Haud facile emergunt quorum jliedl@nickel.laurentian.ca virtutibus obstat res augusta Laurentian University domi." Juvenal _Satires_ Sudbury, Ontario iii.164 -------------------------------- ---------------------------- From: HIST_PS@vax1.utulsa.edu Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 8:26:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: RE: historical costume group Kezia- I tried to reach you directly via your America online address but couldn't. If you can tell me how to do it, I can probably answer some of your questions since my field is Colonial American dress and that of certain Native American tribes. My name is Paula Sanders and my internet address is: HIST_PS@VAX1.UTULSA.EDU. ---------------------------- Subject: Re: historical costume group Date: Wed, 01 Jun 94 09:17:10 PDT From: Walter Nelson Beth The best source I know for the everyday clothing of colonial America is a book called Rural Pennsylvania Clothing. It is available from a variety of sources, to include James Townsend & Son at (219) 594-5852. Good luck Walter Nelson ---------------------------- From: Dawn Devine Subject: WIGS Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 14:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Hello... Two quick questions... 1. Does anyone out there know of a good basic book on wig making? Ventilating? 2. Does anyone know of a resonable source for aquiring wig making supplies? Needles? Lace? Hair? Blocks? I would really appreciate any suggestions. I fully intend to make a wig to go with my collection of recreated garments. I find that my hair is consistantly wrong!!!! What frustration!!! Thank you so much for all of your help!!!! Dawn Devine P.S. Is anyone out there going to Westercon over Fourth of July Weekend and if so.. Is anyone going to the Regency dance? Lets met and talk.... DD ---------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 21:40:55 -0700 From: knowles@netcom.com (Sheryl Knowles) Subject: Re: Wimples I've a question about wimples: in all my cursory perusal of artwork (portraits, illuminations, etc.) depicting wimples being worn, I cannot recall seeing any colour but white used. I have some vague recollection that at least one order of nuns once wore black whimples ... but no way to check on that at the present. Do any of you know better whether any colour other than white is "period" for whimples? Thank you. ---Sheryl Knowles knowles@netcom.com ---------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Jun 94 22:25:39 PDT From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: Shoes & Wigs Somebody asked me about the height of Capezio's more-or-less 19th-century ankle boots (I tried to send her a message and it bounced). Mine come up to the bottom of the calf, no higher. Dawn Devine asked for a book on wigmaking. It's true that the right hairstyle is necessary to look period. But making a wig is truly heroic, considering you can easily buy hairpieces and wigs. And if you want you can keep a permanently styled one for each costume or period. I bought some hair by mail from His Lady and the Soldier Sutlery. They sell natural-looking hairpieces and wigs at very reasonable prices. I don't know what they are made of; it looks like hair but behaves more like thread. Some of this company's pieces are prestyled in historic styles and the others are generic styles like braids. Their service was good. Their address is: His Lady and the Soldier Sutlery 851 Kaypat Drive Hope, MI 48628 (517) 435-3518 Their catalog is $2. I wear the hairpieces I bought to match my hair, but have a wig I don't wear because I haven't figured out how to fit it. It's too big for my head, which I assume I can fix by taking tucks in the mesh underneath. But the real challenge is, I have a pronounced "widow's peak" (front hair growing in a point over my forehead). If I position the wig to cover the peak, it is too low on my forehead to look natural. And if I position it at the rest of my hairline, the peak shows. If anybody experienced with wigs knows how to fix this (short of shaving my forehead), please let me know. Fran Grimble ---------------------------- From: close@lunch.asd.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Living History Newsgroup: a compromise at last! Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 07:53:44 -0700 (PDT) A little while ago I wrote telling everyone about a then-failing, very botched attempt to create some type of living history newsgroup. At that time I was against the creation of the group, as it stood, because it was so poorly presented and messed up. After MUCH discussion and net-arguing :-), the proposer, John Desmond, has FINALLY compromised and produced a real, genuinely good living history RFD! I support this last RFD, and will reproduce an abbreviated copy of it below. I ask everyone on this list to vote YES, when the time comes in 30 days. I've asked that this mailing list be put on the notification list for the first CFV for that newsgroup. That means you should see ONE announcement, no more, when that newsgroup comes up for a vote. As I said, I hope you'll vote yes! :-) All followups to the newsgroup news.groups, please! >From: "J.Desmond" >Subject: 3rd RFD: soc.history.living >Followup-To: news.groups >Date: 2 Jun 1994 14:58:17 -0400 Name of Group: soc.history.living Charter This group shall provide a platform for clubs, associations groups and societieswho are engaged in the practice of historical reenactment and living-history to advertise themselves, share information or debate issues relevent to all manner of reenactment or living history in any period. The group will also provide the opportunity for international contact for reenactment and living history groups. Moderation: the group will be unmoderated. -- Diane Close close@lunch.asd.sgi.com Soon to be close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm always at lunch; only the location changes! :-) ---------------------------- From: HIST_PS@vax1.utulsa.edu Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 16:43:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: historical costume group Walter- I saw your answer to Beth in which you gave her the name of the book - "Rural Pensylvania Clothing". I'd appreciate it if you could tell me the author and date of publication. Also, if you know, I'd like to know the period covered and does it deal with all groups in rural Pa. or just the Quakers. Thanks a lot Paula Sanders HIST_PS@VAX1.UTULSA.EDU ---------------------------- From: "Lassman, Linda" Subject: Wimples Date: Thu, 02 Jun 94 08:31:00 PDT Janice Liedl talks about wanting to re-create the ruffling along the edges of wimples. Have you tried putting the face edge on the bias and stretching it as you do a very narrow folded-and-overcast hem? That technique often results in a ruffled effect. The same works well (but on the straight of the grain) if you're using a fabric like cotton gauze. - Linda Lassman ---------------------------- From: "Lassman, Linda" Subject: Re: Wimples Date: Fri, 03 Jun 94 09:48:00 PDT I'm assuming you include off-white with white!? I've never seen anything except white depicted either, although I haven't done really extensive research either. I always thought that might be a function of "it's expensive to keep something really nice and white and clean so that's proof of how much money we have" and/or "I keep my nice white one for special occasions, and if having my picture painted isn't special, I don't know what is." Of course, it's also difficult to know what colour the clothes on that effigy were in real life! - Linda Lassman ---------------------------- Subject: Re: historical costume group Date: Fri, 03 Jun 1994 13:51:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth Lear Newman >I saw your answer to Beth in which you gave her the name of the book - >"Rural Pensylvania Clothing". I'd appreciate it if you could tell me >the author and date of publication. Also, if you know, I'd like to >know the period covered and does it deal with all groups in rural Pa. >or just the Quakers. I have the Jas. Townsend & Sons, Inc, catalog here, which lists this book and some others: Rural Pennsylvania Clothing, Ellen J, Gehret. Softbound, 309 pages, $30.00 (BK-842) Late 18th and early 19th century clothing worn by common people, not just in PA. Informative text with accurate drawings and good clear photos of original garments. Detailed cutting and sewing instructions for men's and women's outfits. Essential reference and guide. The Workman's Guide. Softbound, 303 pages. $30.00 (BK-840) Published in 1838, this is packed with patterns and instructions for hundreds of items: bonnets, cloaks, baby clothes, shirts, household goods, knitting, and more. 18th Century Clothing at Williamsburg. $12.95 (BK-473) Many color examples of original garments in Williamsburg's collection. Accessories and clothing for men, women, children. Everyday Dress of Rural America, 1783-1800. 129 pages, 54 Illus. $7.95 (BK-818) Describes the clothing worn in New England. Includes scaled patterns and full instructions. Historic Colonial French Dress. $8.50 (BK-409) How to make the clothes of the French colonists, 1710-1770. Common people's clothes for the whole family. In addition, Townsend offers colonial patterns from Eagle's View, J.P. Ryan, Past Patterns, Period Impressions, and Folkwear. I can list them if people are interested. The company sells essentially everything you need for colonial-era re-creation, from finished clothing and patterns to shoes, buckets, tents, and candle molds. Call to order or if you want to get on their mailing list: 800-338-1665 ...eliz ---------------------------- Subject: Re: historical costume group Date: Fri, 03 Jun 94 11:53:49 PDT From: Walter Nelson As someone who has repeatedly mentioned James Townsend and Son as a source for things, and as a regular customer, I would like to give a little info to those who are contemplating making use of their services. Good Stuff: 1. They are extremely fast and efficient. They respond more quickly, and maintain a better inventory than any other company I have dealt with. In fact, I would say that their customer service is probably the best in the business. 2. They have a broad range of goods, and update their catalog regularly. Their catalog includes photographs of most of their stuff. 3. I have been very pleased with their ready-made shirts, sashes and trousers. Not so good stuff: 1. Much of their ready-to-wear stuff, especially their woolens, are made of pretty light material, and don't really have a good, well-fitted, finished, period look to them. Of course, they are machine sewn, so if that is an issue for you, you will not want their stuff. They are not unique in their clothing being made below the standards of the originals. Most off the shelf colonial and Victorian stuff, from any source, should be regarded as suspect unless proven otherwise. 2. I do not assume that, just because Jas Townsend carries something, it is correct. On the balance though, they are still my first choice for colonial and early American stuff, while I go to other sources for things which I don't think they can do up to standard. Cheers, Walter Nelson ---------------------------- Subject: RURAL PENNSYLVANIA CLOTHING Date: Fri, 03 Jun 94 11:09:26 PDT From: Walter Nelson This book does not emphasize the Quakers, and is not so much a review of the clothing of Pennsylvania and the Chesapeake area as it is a review of rural clothing throughout North America in the late Colonial and early Republican period. While the original pieces which it presents in diagrams and photographs are mostly from Pennsylvania, they are universal enough that this book is really an essential resource for anyone costuming common folk around the era of the Revolution. The full bib info I have for it is as follows: Author: Ellen J. Gehret Title: Rural Pennsylvania Clothing: being a study of the wearing apparel of the German and English inhabitants, both men and women, who resided in Southeastern Pennsylvania in the late 18th and early 19th Century. Date: 1990 Publisher: Shumway I do not have a ISBN, since it was not included in the Bib record in the local university Library catalog, and I don't have the book in front of me (it's at home, I'm at work). Cheers, Walter Nelson ---------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Jun 94 13:43:50 PDT From: "SNORTON.US.ORACLE.COM" Subject: Workshop For those in the SF Bay Area: The Greater Bay Area Costume's Guild and Bay Area Regency Society are jointly sponsoring a Sunday Soriee this Sunday, June 5. 2-6 pm, Robinson House, Classroom B 1204 Preseration Park Way, Oakland 2-4 pm "Late 18th and Early 19th Century Costume" featuring costumes from BBC productions (War and Peace, Sense and Sensibility, Poldark, Northanger Abby, and Silas Marner). Talk, film clips, fashion show, and an opportunity to examine the costumes up close. 4-6 pm English country dance instruction with Alan Winston Light refreshments will be served. $5 per session or $8 for both sessions. Pay at the door. Preservation Park is located in downtown Oakland. Take the 17th St. exit off Hwy 980, just off Hwy 880. You can take BART to the 12th Street station. Free parking. Call BAERS at 510/528-1153 or GBACG at 415/665-6766. ---------------------------- End of Volume 106 -----------------------