From: Gretchen Miller Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 18:09:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 214, 1/30/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 214, January 30, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Question: Colors and Fabrics in Gainsborough's "The Honourable Mrs Graham" Time to burn Sources on Gloves ISO: Origin of "Bad Hair Day" Costumes in Brother Cadfael Question : Clair Mc Cardell patterns Question and answers: Patterns for various cavalier clothing --------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:38:36 -0600 (CST) From: Cynthia Abel Subject: Gainsborough's "The Honourable Mrs. Graham" I am planning to make a doll for this summer's local dollmaker's competition after Thomas Gainsborough's "The Honourable Mrs. Graham" RA 1777, now in the National Gallery of Art in Edinburough, Scotland. I am having problems deciding on the exact color of the overdress and hat. In some reproductions they appear cream-colored, in others, silver. Has anyone out there seen the original portrait or an excellent reproduction? The rose-red underskirt appears to have been pleated/twisted to create a diamond-like pattern(I've seen another Gainsborough portrait with the same type of underskirt), rather than quilted, but with Gainsborough's impressionish-type of technique it is hard to tell. Using Arnold's and Hunnisett's books as guides, I can make the costume myself, but I want the colors right. The trick will be to get it right without making it look "hard": I'm backing all the lace with organza I think, to make the lace look misty as in the portrait. Any one out there seen the original portrait or know where I can get an excellent reproduction? Many thanks. Cindy Abel brujne@bluejay.creighton.edu Interlibrary Loan Health Sciences Library Creighton University 2500 California St Phone 402-280-5144 Omaha NE 68178-0400 Fax 402-280-5134 --------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:52:59 -0500 From: Joe Marfice Subject: Re. Bro. Cadfael/Time to burn On 18 Jan 1995 Jim O'Connor wrote: >In one of his series, the historian James Burke recounts that when a >monastery caught fire; some of the monks ran to the clock (horologium in >Latin). Because the clock was a water-run device and thus also served as >a fire extinguisher. Makes one wonder where the expression 'time to burn' >comes from? Perhaps from hour candles? A much more expensive method of gauging time, and probably less accurate, but still used in certain instances. --------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 19:53:05 PST From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: Glove book Somebody asked about a book on gloves. I'd recommend _Gloves_ by Valerie Cumming, published by Batsford in 1982. It is a history of men's and women's gloves from 1600 into the 1970s. Fran Grimble --------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 09:52:20 -0800 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Gloves I've found a fair amount of glove information in books on clothing accessories. They usually include a glove chapter. Good luck. Alison --------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 10:01:41 -0800 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Bad Hair Days This is not exactly a clothing question, but does anybody remember when the phrase"Bad Hair Day" came into use? I've heard it used a lot recently in contexts that had nothing to do with hair, but to describe anything that went wrong in a given situation. I'm just curious how fast this phrase spread. Alison --------------------------- From: b.mai@genie.geis.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 00:40:00 UTC Subject: Zoot Suit Pattern If anyone knows of a source, I'd be interested, also. Bruce Mai --------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 16:55:05 PST From: susanf@EERC.Berkeley.Edu (Susan Fatemi) To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 213, 1/20/95 Great comments everyone on Cadfael. Various people articulated things that were bothering me I wasn't even aware of! Watched the second episode last night (Monk's hood). The worst bit of costume-error was the *vivid* blue of his old flame's dress and veil. You see that ultramarine in medieval mss. but that's a pigment applied to parchment (later paper). I don't believe you get that electric blue with vegetal dies. I don't think I have any veg. dye fabric at home, but I have several antique "oriental" rugs with natural dyes. The colours are still clear after at least 100 yrs, but subtle. And I wonder why the monks' cowls are sewn so crudely up the side/shoulder? I would think they would be made pretty much the same today as they were then (I grew up with Franciscans, mostly). I don't have many sources on that period, but I looked in Kohler and Tilke, also in one book on early Med. art and have news for whoever was looking for "tiraz" bands before x-mas. Tilke shows them on ca. 11-12th c. male "tunics", presumably Germanic and says they originated in "ancient Persia". For Cadfael-watchers, this is the derivation of the sleeve-bands (upper arm) you may have noticed on the Sheriff and Edwin. Real tiraz band were much more ornate, and probably would have contaiiined script or an elaborate design. Well, here's to the suspension of disbelief till Monday. (this is Fri. afternoon for me) Susan Fatemi --------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 13:57:15 EST From: Allison Thurman Subject: claire mc cardell? ive been working on a paper about her for nearly 3 weeks and im beginning to fall in love with her designs, particularly the halter-dresses. does anyone have any idea where i can find patterns of hers (assuming she made any)? even modern patterns that are similar will do. thanks! allison --------------------------- From: RomanceWtr@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 11:40:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Films & Cadfael Thanks to you all. I have been "lurking on this list" for awhile as I am not a costume designer but a romance writer. Am particularly interested in Spanish costume discussion as last book was written about Isabella of Portugal and Charles V and their Spanish court (1530's) Thanks for the input.....romance still lives along with authentic and practical costuming :) Candace in California. --------------------------- From: CGodfrey10@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 02:11:02 -0500 Subject: Looking for patterns Good morning to all. I am new to this list and would request some assistance from all of you wonderful people. I am a member of the SCA and an amatuer costume designer. I am in need of a few patterns. Descriptions to follow. 1. A leather jerkin circa 1600-1630. Need a basic pattern, early Cavalier, or very late Elizabethan prefered. 2. Doublets....1600-1630. Any patterns available. Prefer early Cavalier that could pass as Elizabethan with a few modifications. 3. Three Musketeer style tabard and cassock. LIke the one Keiffer Sutherlund wore in the Disney 1993 Musketeer movie. 4. Cavalier hat. Wide brim; Tall, flat crown. I would prefer full size paper patterns (either that someone made for a film, play or otherwise or a commercial pattern that can be modified or is correct for the period) but I will take any type of pattern available for these garments and any modification instructions available. The simpler the patterns the better, but I am desperate and will accept anything. I appreciate any responses you can give. Thank you for your time and help. Sincerely, Derek cgodfrey10@aol.com PS I am willing to discuss compensation with anyone who is adept at drafting period patterns. Thanks. --------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:54:09 -0400 (EST) From: andrea ruth leed Subject: Re: Looking for patterns It looks like the best book for your needs is Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion III 1560-1620_ (I think those are the dates.) It's a rather expensive book, but university librarys generally have a copy. There are miniaturized patterns for all sorts of doublets and other mens costumes drawn out on graph paper, but you do need to know the basics of pattern alteration to alter them to fit. Most of the patterns--for the women, anyway--would fit a healthy twelve-year-old. On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 CGodfrey10@aol.com wrote: > Good morning to all. I am new to this list and would request some assistance > from all of you wonderful people. > > I am a member of the SCA and an amatuer costume designer. I am in need of a > few patterns. Descriptions to follow. > > 1. A leather jerkin circa 1600-1630. Need a basic pattern, early Cavalier, > or very late Elizabethan prefered. > > 2. Doublets....1600-1630. Any patterns available. Prefer early Cavalier > that could pass as Elizabethan with a few modifications. > > 3. Three Musketeer style tabard and cassock. LIke the one Keiffer > Sutherlund wore in the Disney 1993 Musketeer movie. > > 4. Cavalier hat. Wide brim; Tall, flat crown. > > I would prefer full size paper patterns (either that someone made for a film, > play or otherwise or a commercial pattern that can be modified or is correct > for the period) but I will take any type of pattern available for these > garments and any modification instructions available. > > The simpler the patterns the better, but I am desperate and will accept > anything. I appreciate any responses you can give. > > Thank you for your time and help. > > Sincerely, > > Derek > cgodfrey10@aol.com > > PS I am willing to discuss compensation with anyone who is adept at drafting > period patterns. Thanks. > > ============================= aleed@ezmail.ucs.indiana.edu --------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 14:34:27 -0500 From: Joe Marfice Subject: Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 213, 1/20/9 On 1/20/95 Susan Fatemi wrote: >Great comments everyone on Cadfael. Various people articulated things >that were bothering me I wasn't even aware of! >Watched the second episode last night (Monk's hood). The worst bit >of costume-error was the *vivid* blue of his old flame's dress and >veil. You see that ultramarine in medieval mss. but that's a pigment >applied to parchment (later paper). I don't believe you get that >electric blue with vegetal dies. I don't think I have any veg. dye >fabric at home, but I have several antique "oriental" rugs with >natural dyes. The colours are still clear after at least 100 yrs, but >subtle. Don't be so quick to believe the image of the Middle Ages as dark and dingy! I have seen naturally dyed cloth (note: they were not restricted to vegetable dyes) that are quite brilliant. The combination of dye, mordant, and fiber are crucial: a dye that turns silk a shocking pink (for a real, documentable-to-Rennaissance dye example) might only nudge wool into a salmon disposition. Dyers also used pots of differing metals to change the hue of dyes. As for the oriental rugs, bright colors just might not have been aesthetically pleasing for the rugmakers' color schemes. Certainly, middle tones would be easier to keep clean-looking than bright ones. Remember, the absence of proof is not itself proof. Written in haste and with only a desire to spread what little knowledge I have, I remain your servant. | Broom, at The Lady Perrine | aka Joe Marfice | Ministerium honor est. \|/ which means "Don't check under the bed--you don't want to know." /|\ 513-222-2330 233 Perrine Street //|\\ af289@dayton.wright.edu Dayton (my fayre citee), OH 45410 --------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:53:41 -0800 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Looking for patterns For simple instructions, the Renfaire book, "Elizabethan Costume 1550-1580" by Schultz & Winter might help. I've also seen a commercial "halloween" pattern by either Butterick, McCalls, or Simplicity which has simple versions of Tudor & Elizabethan for men & women. It might give you basic shapes to work from. Rainments (POB 93095, Pasadena, CA 91109) has a catalogue of historic patterns & books which may be useful. Their catalogue is $5. (No, (No, I don't work for them...standard discaimer). For books, "The cut of Mens clothing 1600-1930" by Nora Waugh might have something. I know they have gridded diagrammes of many garments. For hats, "From the Neck up" by Denise Dreher, has gridded hat patterns & many instructions on varoius millinery techniques. Hope this helps. Alison --------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 19:45:04 -0500 (EST) From: "Jim O'Connor" Subject: Monk's Hood Yes, the blue color is rather vivid, but we should remind ourselves that what we are really seeing is the glowing phosphors of a picture tube. Different tubes really produce a wide variation, in addition the brightness setting on many sets is a factor. Recall a wall of sets in a television store, all tuned to the same channel, yet each looks a little different. Reportedly sets that best reproduce color don't sell as well as those that seem most brilliant. Also we accept that the actors speak contemporary English, if they used English vocabulary and pronounciation of the era we would hardly understand a word. Yet it is a stretch when Cadfeal declares before a Welsh court, where Welsh (a Celtic language) would seem to have been spoken. But did anyone else notice that in his workshop, Brother Cadfeal had pinched the carpenter's workbench. The view in this episode cleary shows it, right down to the wood vise and holes for the bench dogs (little holders for wood), and the tray for the chisels. Actually if one ignores those details it does sort of look right. ---------------------------- End of Volume 214 -----------------------