From: Gretchen Miller Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 17:29:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 217, 1/31/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 217, January 31, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Norms of wearing clothing Review of "Orientalism: Visions of the East in Western Dress" History of buttons Costumes in Star Trek: The Next Generation ISO: Info about historical sewing machines --------------------------- Date: 27 Jan 95 07:20:43 EST From: Dee Wilson <100545.3105@compuserve.com> Subject: Wearing Costume My partner and I are collecting material for a book on the social history of norms and values - 1750 to 1955. We are looking at what people thought was ~right and proper~ and what was acceptable to everyday people. We are also looking at how these norms get passed on to children, who become the next generation. Our present research is in the area of clothing and fashion. NOT, NOT high fashion that makes the headlines, but what was actually worn by working and middle classes. I am sure you will understand that it is very easy to go into a museum and look at 18/19 costume and say ~ those must have been uncomfortable, how did they manage ?~ However, they did manage, but maybe in a different way ! For example a 19 C lady in a bustle, corset and large hat did not need to drive a car to the local supermarket and pick cans off the shelves ! So we must not judge the past my our standards of today. Please mail me if you have experience of making, fitting or especially wearing historical costume for any period of time. We are interested in the effects on the wearer, shape, carriage, deportment, movement and comfort. We are less interested in the fabrics and construction methods. Yes, I know they are important but we have to limit the research. If you mail us with some brief details of you experiences we can send you a more detailed set of questions which focus on our specific research. Two other points which may be of interest. A. If we say the clothes of the past (even the recent past of the 1950s) are restrictive, what will people be saying in the year 2095 about the clothes of 1995 ? B. You may get a feel for what we are doing by knowing some of the topics writing about. These include: * regular church going. Not only to worship God, but to be seen at church. * left-handedness. Often associated with illegitimacy, insanity and association with the devil.(yes really) * the need for regular meals. In the past it was ~right~ to have meals at set times. Not only was this healthy, but ~necessary~. Similar reasoning led to a need for regular bowel movements - a regular child was well brought up child, brought up by right minded parents. However, we are really looking for help regarding the practical wearing of historical costume. Hope to hear from you soon ! You may mail us on 100545.3105@compuserve.com Dee --------------------------- From: VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 13:39:44 -0600 (CST) Subject: new book I would like to draw everyone's attention to _Orientalism: Visions of the East in Western Dress_, by Richard Martin and Harold Koda. New Yor: Metro- politan Museum of Art, 1994. Distributed by Harry N. Abrams, Inc. pb, 95 pp., 8 1/2" x 11". $19.95 + $4.95 postage and handling + $1.93 sales tax (selected states only), to total $26.83. This is the exhibition catalog for a current exhibition running from Dec. 8, 1994 through March 19, 1995, and it is beautiful. The clothing used as illustrations ranges in date from 1700's until the present, but I will mention only those about 1840 through 1870, since that is my primary period of interest. There is a *stunning* ca. 1850 English at-home dress of Chinese aubergine silk damask trimmed in velvet--fan front, pagoda sleeves, velvet collar and bottom edge of sleve, and 4-5 narrow panels of velvet running vertically down the skirt; an American or European day dress, ca. 1850 of floral-patterned cream silk gauze--straigh across neckline pagoda sleeves, three flounces edged on the bottom with fringe, as are the sleeves, border print strip across top of neckline and matching sleeve cap; American or European afternoon dress, ca. 1855, of paisley-printed off-white silk organdy with woven satin stripe, back shown only, double pagoda sleeves edged in scalloped fringe and a matching trim, bottom of sleeve cap also edged in scalloped fringe, no flounces; American man's lounging coat, late 1840's in printed wool twill--cream red, and olive, collar folds down with rounded front tips, decorative cording on sleeve bottom, collar, front, and coat hem; American man's smoking coat, 1860-1880, paisley-patterned wool, with shawl collar of black (?) and matching cuffs, decorative cording along all edges and pockets; reprinted illustration from July 1857 Le Lion showing man's tasseled cap and skirted gown 'a la Turque; black and white photo of side view of 1850's American opera cloak, ivory silk faille embroidered with gold soutache braid; an 1872 Charles Frederic Worth evening dress of peacock- blue silk faille with trim of ivory silk satin embroidered with silk floss and cream silk tulle. If it sounds like something you can't live without, order now. Sometimes these exhibition catalogs don't stay in print very long. Vicki Betts University of Texas at Tyler vicki@lib.uttyl.edu --------------------------- From: Title-L_at_nctsw-n92@smtpgw.nctsw.navy.mil Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 15:37:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Wearing Costume Ms. Robin Goldman Netherton is a costumer/researcher in the Washington DC area who has done extensive work on cotehardies and sideless surcoats. As of 8 years ago when I last talked costumery with Robin, her cotehardies were made with two layers of fairly-heavy cloth, cut so the selvedges form the center-front and center-back edges (seamed a half-inch or so in from that, so the selvedges stiffen the center-front opening) and the dress itself is as tight-fitting as a good pair of jeans. By fitting the sideseams tighter and tighter, she achieved a dress wherein, like those jeans, the fabric and the wearer's body interact; at a particular tightness, my breasts assumed the flattish monobosom effect found in early cotehardie illustrations (remember those funeral brasses?), then with successive tightenings, suddenly they sprang in and up into the spheres depicted in the Duc de Berry Tres Riches Heures - and my back took on the graceful S-curve of those same ladies. I found myself leaning back into the dress like into a good armchair, with my arms held half-lifted forward by the curve of the tight sleeves. It was actually a comfortable experience, once she made pinning allowances for my warped spine, and the resulting cote was comfortable to wear all day. I floated when I walked, since the dress put my hips forward. The strangest part was how the gown reshaped my body. I'd always been puzzled at the odd physiology of the Eves in 14th-century Garden of Eden scenes: they seem swaybacked; there seems to be an extreme length from the point of the hip to the back-point of the buttock, and the abdomen also seems oddly-shaped and too large/low. After wearing Robin's cotehardie for 20 minutes, my own body took on that same shape, and kept it for hours! What looks like the point of the hip in those paintings is actually the tip of the "floating rib", caused to protrude by the S-curve the gown put in my back. That's why the line appears so long. Like a corset, the tight bodice pushes the abdomen down. The painters depicted what they saw - a body altered - and surprisingly quickly! - by its garments! --------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:18:16 -0800 (PST) From: Dianne Karp Subject: Re: buttons All original buttons started out like men's button but women's later changed because it was fashionable for women to be dressed by servants. It was easier for the dresser to fasten buttons from the other side. This is from my beloved who says, in response to `where did you get this from' "I dont know - it is one of the bits of trivia that stuck!" Dianne On Thu, 26 Jan 1995, andrea ruth leed wrote: > > Here's a question for you all: when did buttons as we know them first > come into use? And why is it that men's shirts button to the right while > women's button to the left? > > > Drea > ============================= > aleed@ezmail.ucs.indiana.edu > > --------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 18:16:57 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Hall Subject: Costumes on Star Trek Next Generation All this talk of costume authenticity has me thinking about Star Trek the Next Generation. I don't know a whole lot about costuming..I was wondering what costumers thought of the Star Trek costumes when they do their back in time episodes or their holo-deck episodes. Any opinions? -Grotesque and Arabesque -Sir.Real --------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 22:24:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Annette Lynch, TAPP" Subject: sewing machine history To those of you that may know:! For a research project I need to know typical sewing machines used to produce ready-to-wear in the 20th century. Any good sources giving makes, models and typical attachments and dates used would be appreciated. --Not interested in home sewing--interested in industry--and I need specific dates specific machines were in wide usage throughout the United States. Also: any good ideas regarding the best way to systematically survey a diverse costume collection in order to create a profile of the collection and develop a collection policy would be appreciated. Thanks. Annette Lynch/University of Northern Iowa --------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 21:09:27 +0800 From: writan@iinet.com.au (Writan Consulting) Subject: Re: Costumes on Star Trek Next Generation At 06:16 PM 27/1/95 -0800, Jeff Hall wrote: >All this talk of costume authenticity has me thinking about Star Trek the >Next Generation. I don't know a whole lot about costuming..I was >wondering what costumers thought of the Star Trek costumes when they do >their back in time episodes or their holo-deck episodes. Any opinions? >-Grotesque and Arabesque > -Sir.Real > > Actually, the thing that worries me about science fiction costumes is, in the future no one will wear prints. At least, that's what the costumers of these shows seem to think. Can't see it myself - we've been wearing stripes and plaid (sometimes together! :)) for all of recorded history - and as technology advances, the stuff has only tended to get more garish. Some of the florals my mother in law wears should come with sunglasses. /anne....... --------------------------- From: DLTR@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 12:01:05 -0500 Subject: Re: buttons I read somewhere that the reason for the left/right thing comes to us from the egyptians. Women were dressed by servants and men dressed themselvesso for all practical purposes it had the effecct of all things buttoning to the right. I can't remember my source so I can't guarantee the accuracy but it's a fun fact nonetheless Diana LIfe is a banquet --------------------------- From: DLTR@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 12:10:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Costumes on Star Trek Nex... Quite to the contrary, on Deep Space Nine Quark, the Ferenghi wears brocades and a variety of textures in the layers of his clothes. The Romulan uniform is a basketweave patterned fabric. As a costumer I would be wary of the use of prints in many of the Sci-Fi clothes because the garments usually have so much interest in the way they are cut/draped addition of print fabrics could be too busy for some of the things. Diana Life is a banquet! --------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 13:25:51 -0800 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Historic Star Trek Personally, I really like the use of textures, rather than prints in the current series. Maybe the designers looked at how "1960"s th print fabrics used in the original series look now. The costumes using solid colour fabrics look more futuristic to me today than the printed ones, because I can remember family & frinds wearing those same prints on 20th c. earth. Alison PS-A friend collects 1960's print fabrics from relatives & thrift stores, saying she's going to do re-creations from the original series with them. Ps again-I wonder if some historical movies done in the 1970's used the avacado & gold colours so popular at the time...does anyone remember any? (After all, you have to costume with what is available). --------------------------- From: SCABabe@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 21:01:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: buttons I was under the assumption of the left/right male/female button placket difference was due to the fact that most victorian women ( middle class and up ) had handmaids and servants, who being right handed, had trouble buttoning the blouse fronts facing their master. I don't know why the tradion still exsists, I doubt the clothing manufacturers even still remember. I think a revolt is in order. Petitions are on the way to every woman in the U.S. Watch your mailbox! Jen Funk scababe@aol.com --------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 07:57:38 -0600 (CST) From: Cynthia Abel Subject: Re: Costumes on Star Trek Next Generation I'm not a Trekker, but it seems some of the more flamboyant(sp?) characters in the Star Trek milieu: Neelix in "Voyager," and Deanna Troi's mom in "Next Generation" wear prints and I seem to remember futuristic alien tie-dye type stuff in the original sixties episodes. Seems like in the future according to "Trek," only aliens will have fun with clothing. Cindy Abel brujne@bluejay.creighton.edu Interlibrary Loan Health Sciences Library Creighton University 2500 California St Phone 402-280-5144 Omaha NE 68178-0400 Fax 402-280-5134 On Sun, 29 Jan 1995, Writan Consulting wrote: > At 06:16 PM 27/1/95 -0800, Jeff Hall wrote: > >All this talk of costume authenticity has me thinking about Star Trek the > >Next Generation. I don't know a whole lot about costuming..I was > >wondering what costumers thought of the Star Trek costumes when they do > >their back in time episodes or their holo-deck episodes. Any opinions? > >-Grotesque and Arabesque > > -Sir.Real > > > > > > Actually, the thing that worries me about science fiction costumes is, in > the future no one will wear prints. At least, that's what the costumers of > these shows seem to think. > > Can't see it myself - we've been wearing stripes and plaid (sometimes > together! :)) for all of recorded history - and as technology advances, the > stuff has only tended to get more garish. Some of the florals my mother in > law wears should come with sunglasses. > > > /anne....... > > --------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 10:22:54 -0500 (EST) From: "K.C. Kozminski" Subject: Re: Historic Star Trek Hi Two Movies in the 60's that spring to mind as Historical with contemorary influences are Zeferelli's Romeo and Juliet and the version of Tom Jones that starred Albert Finney. Both of these films used a great deal of avacado and gold, and the make-up and hair-styles were as much 1960 as they were historical (if not more!) the best example is the frost lip-stick and black eye-liner in both films, and the beetle-style hair-cuts on the men in R&J. KC Don't think of it as aging, think of it as "Attaining Mythic Stature" kc/Roen who is, herself --------------------------- From: cpecourt@mhv.net Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 11:16:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Wearing Costume Hello I couldn't help wondering where Robin got her cotehardie patterns? I have been searching for one for ages.. and can't seem to find one that doesn't look like a potatoe sack once put on. Do you or she have any suggestions? Many thanks Chantal cpecourt@mhv.net --------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 09:28:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Re: Historic Star Trek > Personally, I really like the use of textures, > rather than prints in the current series. There were a number of costumes on display as part of the OMSI "Federation Science" exhibit, and I was amazed at how very textured the fabrics were--most of it doesn't even show up on TV. I assume that the video camera tends to flatten things and the designers have taken this into account. Other revalations--You can do a tremendous amount with rubber rain boots; lots and lots of knits used (ease in fitting, I assume, since many are used on garments which, if worn as they are supposedly worn, would not hold up in a knit); Woopi Goldburg is much smaller than I thought; sevaral actors are obviously thinner chested--lots of chest and shoulder padding. Back to the original question--the only time I noticed one way or the other was the Mark Twain episodes, and then it was because when I first saw Goldberg in costume I thought "Mammie Pleasant"! ---------------------------- End of Volume 217 -----------------------