From: Gretchen Miller Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 18:05:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 225, 2/13/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 225, February 13, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Weaving with undyed wool of various colors Civil War Lady conference, Columbus Ohio (July, 1995) Mockup warning 15C German dress Period maternity clothing Info on the 14th C costume article ISO Hunter's shirt pattern, mid 18th C Buttoning on your surcote ----------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 12:01:06 PST From: susanf@EERC.Berkeley.Edu (Susan Fatemi) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 219, 2/8/95 re: modern Turkish rug question (sorry, I lost your name) Your rug is very probably just as described, with different natural colour wools. My area of interest is the Middle East, but I've seen sweaters from s. America knitted of different [natural] coloured wools. Using natural coloured wools is very common and *very* ancient in feltmaking, to create a pattern. It is believed that felt-making predates carpet weaving and the earliest extant pile carpet dates from 450 B.C., but the technology was already well-established by that time. So while your rug is modern, the technique really is ancient. Re: Patterns for Theatrical costumes : someone sent me a message that the new ed. is now available at Waldenbooks, for anyone still interested. I still want to know how the new one differs from the old one. Susan Fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ----------------------- From: VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 14:25:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: new 19th century sources/conference Here are some items that might be of interest to people researching the mid-nineteenth century--- >From _The Citizens' Companion_, v. 1, no. 6, February/March 1995 "The Most Basic Article: Shirts of the Civil War Era" by Thomas G. Shaw, pp. 16-21. >From _Camp Chase Gazette_, v. 22, no. 3, January/February 1995 "Observations on the Confederate Enlisted Uniform: Variation and Color" by Bob Denton & Chris Graham, pp. 36-42. >From _The Watchdog_, v. 3, no. 1, Winter, 1995 Book review of _Civil War Gentlemen: 1860s Apparel Arts & Uniforms_, no author of review listed, p. 7. --------------------------------------------------- Announcement of 1995 National Civil War Lady Conference, 7:30 p.m. Friday, July 21 through noon, Sunday July 23, Columbus, Ohio, price not announced. To register or free brochure, contact: Civil War Lady Magazine, 622 3rd Ave. SW, Pipestone MN 56164. (507) 825-3182. -----From cover letter to previous attendees from Joy Melcher "Please do not confuse National Conference with other events held by those less qualified. Although imitation is a form of flattery, it is still imitation and not National Conference. Our speakers are qualified, well researched, and presenting their information directly to you. Actively employed in the history field, we hope that you will want to learn their information first hand and without error or misinterpretation. Plans for National 1995 Conference are in place and we have an _exciting_ educational and entertaining weekend for you--the best gift you can give yourself--an educational and FUN weekend! We have upgraded all aspects of the Conference for your enjoyment. More speakers, more topics, a great display of original day dresses in wool, silk, and cotton, (if you like our "under- pinnings" display last year, you will enjoy this) original bonnets and more! Beth Miller will show you how to reproduce original garments---you will easily learn the ORIGINAL sewing techniques your foremothers used and not modern techniques, isn't this what authenticity is all about?! Since the 1994 National Conference, Beth has had access to additional outstanding collections and has even more to present to you. Her slide presentation and handouts will be an invaluable resource to you. Highly sought after by our competition--Beth will present her quality programs at The 1995 National Conference as our featured speaker. Saundra Altman has revealed information not uncovered for the past 130 years--it may change how you dress for reenacting (it did for us!). Saundra is dedicated to presenting at the 1995 Civil War Lady National Conference. We are honored to bring this information to you! From your comment sheets, we know you enjoyed Karen Chartrand's presentations, and you know for yourself her knowledge and accountability to her field. Dur to popular request, Karen's presentations have been extended. Social History is imperative to a Living History impression. The new and improved Soiree will be a fund and ACTIVE evening! Cynthia Amneas of the Cincinnati Art Museum presents her lecture/slide presentation that will bedazzle you. Cynthia's millinery creations were featured at the traveling exhibit by the Cincinnati Art Museum _With Grace and Favor_, and photographed in the accompanying book. Cynthia was chosen to present on hats and bonnets at the 1994 Costume Society of America and is proprietor of "Historical Reproduction Headwear." Presented with a captivating slide display, this is your opportunity to hear Ms. Amneas and view and photograph a wonderful display of original Civil War bonnets! Gerry Barker has a Masters of Labor History and is past director of the LaCrosse Historical Museum, LaCrosse, Wisconsin. Utilizing 19th century work history, Gerry and his wife spent one year living in an 1800's log home without electricity or plumbing, and supplied with only 19th century household items while serving as director of Historic Murphy's Landing, a permanent Living History Site. He is one of the few people in the country with actual hands on approach to daily living in the 1800's. Gerry presents an insight on 19th century working women and her daily tasks that you can utilize in your Living History impression. Along with these five speakers, we have fun displays planned for you. Learn how to operate reproduction Victorian items that you will have the opportunity to use, including the Stereoscope, the Zoetrope and the L'Optique. In our hairstyling demonstration, our speakers will style several lucky students' hair right on stage--it could be you! For your enjoyment, we have upgraded National Conference with spacious hotel facilities, expanded Soiree, Conference package, and more! This year we offer new 100% cotton reproduction fabric straight from textile mills at a very economical price. These designs are manufactured directly from ORIGINAL fabrics of the 1800's. Dated by authorities, including the Smithsonian--I consider them an excellent choice fabric for reproducing Civil War Era day dresses!* (*Available on a first-come first-served basis.) Last year's National Conference was completely sold out--we already have students enrolled for this year. Our speakers, working staff and I am looking forward to hosting you. Please put this event on your busy schedule, national Conference won't be the same without wonderful folks like you! By registering early, you will save on tuition and assure your spot at National Conference! (additional information from accompanying sheet) Beth Miller--constructional techniques and stitches, explains what type of stitches were used and where. Includes trim construction and application. What clothing is worn for occasions and situations, including house-cleaning, church, visiting, traveling, sickness, maternity, death, evening and weddings. See a demonstration on dressing your school age and pre-teen daughters with Megan and Emily. Saundra Altman--Two presentations--Corded skirts--If you don't have one, you'll want one in your reenacting wardrobe. The Skirt Supporting Corset--What is this? When was it worn? Why aren't we wearing them? Extensive detailed information on this garment worn by women. This information may change the way you dress! Karen Chartrand--Social etiquette, in the Society of Women--a study of the social activities of women before and during the war, moral expectations of women's influence on society, and the changing status of women as a result of marriage, child-bearing, and widowhood. Deportment: A study of a lady's manners, deportment, carriage, and voice. A view of why society believed these manners important and how they were taught at home and in finishing schools. A study of middle class entertaining. Cynthia Amneas--An in-depth look at original bonnets, hats, and headwear worn by women of the 1860's. Gerry Barker--presentation on living history and first person interpretation with emphasis on the lifestyles of rural working women. How to improve your working impression. Effectively present and teach the public. Excellent for open air museums. ------------------------------------------------- For those interested in learning about 19th century farming hands-on, the Shaker Village at Pleasant Hill, KY will be conducting weekend workshops for farmers (March 17-18) and farmers' wives (this fall). Contact the Reservations Department of Shaker Vilage for details at (606) 734-5411. Vicki Betts University of Texas at Tyler vicki@lib.uttyl.edu ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 14:15:21 +1100 From: S.Randles@UTS.Edu.Au (Sarah Randles) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 219, 2/8/95 >From: andrea ruth leed >Subject: Re: Wearing Costume > >Since cotehardies are so close-fitting, and since there aren't two >people in the universe that have identical bodies, it's hard to find one >that will fit perfectly. My solution is to make a mock-up of the >pattern in really cheap fabric A word of warning about choosing fabric to make a mock up. Some years ago, I went through a stage of having problems with bodices. I made mock-ups and fitted them all, then took the pattern off the mock-up and cut it out of the good fabric, interfaced and lined it and then tried it on again, and then it didn't fit. In one case I couldn't even get into it. This baffled me over about 4 dresses, until it finally dawned on me that the fabric I was using to fit in (usually cotton lawn or cheap calico/muslin) was stretchy, and the top fabric, with interlining was not. Sarah Sarah Randles S.Randles@uts.edu.au Research Office Telephone: (02)330 1252 University of Technology, Sydney Fax: (02)330 1252 ----------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 19:14:04 -0800 (PST) From: Gwen Carnegi Subject: Re: 15th Century German Dress Isabeau; I have several sources for you, which when viewed in order will make more sense. There is a dry point ill. of Aristotle & Phyllis (1475-1480) by Housebook Master which shows the ridged panel in front. Next are three ills. by Durer, "Junges Paar"(apprx 1490-1500)," Nurnberger Jungfrau im Tanzkleid"(1503), & "Entwurf zum Grabmal eines Ritters und Frau"( 1510). If you have a copy of Davenport's Book of Costume see pages 379 & 384 (plate 1010) for yet more details. In all these illustrations, the sleeves are tight and straight and will remain that way until 1550's in the northern regions. Kohler's rendering has the feel of a early 15th. cent garment but I can find nothing with both the ridged front and the fuller, longer open sleeve. I suggest trying to find the orginal drawing or painting that Kohler pulled his from, but sometimes that isn't possible because many pieces are still in private collections. Good Luck Gwyn Carnegie gcarnegi@netcom.com ------------------------------------------------------------ "All women are crazy and all men are stupid. Once you resign yourself to the idea, the entire realm of human relations becomes much more understandable." -Katie Marmor ------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 7 Feb 1995 KTRuby@aol.com wrote: > I am interested in making a 15th Century German dress as illustrated in A > History of Costume by Kohler on page 193. > > It is constructed with a strip cut out of the front up to below the breast > then replaced by a wider, pleated strip so that the gown is very wide at the > bottom. I haven't seen this type of dress in any of my other sources. > > I have made up the dress in muslin but I don't want to go too far until I am > sure this is authentic, and I'm worried because I haven't seen one like it > anywhere. Does anyone have other references of this type of gown? > > Isabeau Elysia > > ----------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 20:53:31 -1200 From: althea_sexton@wsu.edu (Althea Sexton) Subject: Maternity was Re: Pleated Strip I, too, would like to hear of any references on how women dealt with pregnancy, sartorially speaking. In any time period or culture. Thanks in advance. end | Althea L. Sexton | ALTHEA_SEXTON@WSU.EDU ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 01:28:13 -0400 (EST) From: andrea ruth leed Subject: Re: 15th Century German Dress > > > > It is constructed with a strip cut out of the front up to below the breast > > then replaced by a wider, pleated strip so that the gown is very wide at the > > bottom. I haven't seen this type of dress in any of my other sources. > > > > I have made up the dress in muslin but I don't want to go too far until I am > > sure this is authentic, and I'm worried because I haven't seen one like it > > anywhere. Does anyone have other references of this type of gown? > > > > Isabeau Elysia > > > > > I haven't checked, but I found a wonderful book on dress in the 15th century: it/s called _Late Gothic Europe 1400-1500_, with not a word about costume in the title to make it easier to find, and goes through the fourteenth century in exquisite detail, charting changes in fashion by five year increments. It's chock full of illustrations, too. =============================Drea aleed@ezmail.ucs.indiana.edu ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 17:20 EST From: dawn@babel.DIALix.oz.au (Dawn Elson) Subject: 15th C german with pleats Any good book on the etchings etc. of the German artist Albrecht Durer should show you a more accurate representation of this type of gown. Durer did a lot of work around Nuremburg in the 15th C and has done many pictures illustrating this. The insert goes from under the breasts to the floor and appears to be tightly cartridge pleated as far as the waist (this would not seem to accomodate advanced pregnancy) Do have a go at this dress, (it is on my to do list as well) but do try to find the Durer prints, they will show you some variations and also give you a more accurate line than Kohler. >I am interested in making a 15th Century German dress as illustrated in A >History of Costume by Kohler on page 193. > >It is constructed with a strip cut out of the front up to below the breast >then replaced by a wider, pleated strip so that the gown is very wide at the >bottom. I haven't seen this type of dress in any of my other sources. Dawn -- -------------------------------+-------------------------- Dawn Elson | dawn@babel.dialix.oz.au -------------------------------+-------------------------- ----------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 23:06:12 -0800 (PST) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Pleated Strip On Wed, 8 Feb 1995, Elizabeth McMahon wrote: > Wow! Interesting! Besides the dress from the Hald bog finds where the > front hem is dramatically longer than the back .... Interesting. Hald has diagrams for a number of bog-find tunics, but since I introduced this one in the context of pleated inserts, I'll assume we're talking about the same one. As an experiment, I made a tunic to the exact dimensions as shown in her book, and did not find any unevenness in the hemline. In fact, I could find no practical reason for the front gusset being longer than the back one and came to the conclusion that it must have been the size of the particular piece of fabric that caused one gusset to be shorted. The original tunic was almost certainly a male garment, since it had a center slit, front and back (you can tell this because one of the gussets was originally a solid piece, which has been deliberately cut through most of its length) so I think it would be wrong to interpret the cut as designed to accomodate pregnancy. Heather Rose Jones ----------------------- From: DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 10:46:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: 14th C. Dress Pattern Sorry to use up the bandwidth, but not everyone who requested copies of this article sent their e-mail address... When I sent my offer, I neglected to explain that this is a very LONG article (100 pages), and includes patterns for many garments, both male and female, as well as textile information, details of construction and trim, comparison with other historical sources from Western Europe, etc. The patterns are small but drawn to scale (though no scale is given; only a table with the measurements from each garment), so you must have some pattern drafting skills to use them. I am still more than happy to send copies to everyone who asked (25 people so far), but I would like to know first for certain that you REALLY want the whole thing. That's a LOT of xeroxing... Also, anyone who felt so moved could send me stamps to cover the postage ($2+ -- just send me $.32 stamps since I'm not waiting for stamps before I mail the copies). Also, I'll have to do them a few at a time -- I'm sending out the first few today (Jennifer Bray and Dawn Elson -- I'm sending yours today; don't worry about postage). Glad to help disseminate historic costuming reference materials... Denise Zaccagnino Lady Deonora Ridenow in the SCA ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 11:41:42 -0400 (EST) From: dbrowne Subject: Dawn Elson said: >Any good book on the etchings etc. of the German artist Albrecht Durer >should show you a more accurate representation of this type of gown. >Durer did a lot of work around Nuremburg in the 15th C and has done >many pictures illustrating this. The insert goes from under the >breasts to the floor and appears to be tightly cartridge pleated as >far as the waist (this would not seem to accomodate advanced pregnancy) > >Do have a go at this dress, (it is on my to do list as well) but do try >to find the Durer prints, they will show you some variations and also >give you a more accurate line than Kohler. Yes I agree that Durer is the best example of German clothing from the 15 c. But you must be aware that all of Durer's bodies are out of porportion, thus the clothing is also out of proportion. Example, note the length of forearm on most of his women, they are drawn at least 6 inchesd too long. Look at the way that the shoulders slope on everyone, inorder to have shoulders shaped that way you would have to have your clavicals removed; while ladies of the 19th c. may have removed their floating ribs for the sake of a smaller waist line, The medical profession was not advanced in the 15th c. to make removing of the clavicals a good option. Please look to Durer for ideas but do not expect to replicate his style. --Kathy B. --Katrinn ----------------------- Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 11:54:48 -0500 From: Rebecca Bisbee Subject: Hunter's Shirt I have a friend who has been searching for a pattern for a hunter's shirt ca. 1750-60. If anyone can help us, we'd appreciate it very much. Thanks Rebecca ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:36:20 -0500 (EST) From: Elizabeth McMahon Subject: Re: Pleated Strip On Wed, 8 Feb 1995, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > On Wed, 8 Feb 1995, Elizabeth McMahon wrote: > > > Wow! Interesting! Besides the dress from the Hald bog finds where the > > front hem is dramatically longer than the back .... > > Interesting. Hald has diagrams for a number of bog-find tunics, but since > I introduced this one in the context of pleated inserts, I'll assume > we're talking about the same one. As an experiment, I made a tunic to the > exact dimensions as shown in her book, and did not find any unevenness in > the hemline. In fact, I could find no practical reason for the front > gusset being longer than the back one and came to the conclusion that it This does not sound like the garment to which I am referring, which demonstrates once again, I should never do this from work, without cross checking what I was thinking about. Friends of mine were looking at a garment (maybe it was one in Kohler?) that had a long curved hem that was dramatically longer in the front than the back, but the rest of the garment details indicated that this was indeed the garment front and made for a woman. The friend, who was making one of the multi-side gore, 14th C. Greenland style gowns, was also very pregnant. When she took the draft of this dress off, and set it on a hanger, it resembled very closely the extant dress I'm thinking of, whose sourc I cannot place. I also seem to remember it being styled "the dress of some Queen..." (but more nicely said ;*) Half baked as ever, but oh so well meaning... Beth McMahon ----------------------- From: DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 16:29:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Sorry to do this again... ... but I forgot to post my snail-mail address for the stamps (for the 14th C. dress article). It's: Denise Zaccagnino Harvard University 46 Oxford Street Cambridge, MA 02138 $2.16 or whatever works out close to that in $.32 stamps. Thanks! ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 14:41:00 -0800 (PST) From: Diana Dills Subject: Surcotes and Cothardies Dear Gwyn, I, too have seen a passing reference, perhaps just a surmise, that cothardies buttoned through surcotes. Maybe they didn't all button through, but quite often functional buttons evolve into decorative ones as fashions change. So I believe it is possible, and maybe even likely... Most of my costuming is done in this period, and I would love to correspond/trade references, and most of all, trade patterns and sewing tips. If Gwyn or anyone else in this group has experience in medieval or early renaissance costuming, please drop me an email. DIANA DILLS ddills@u.washington.edu ----------------------- End of Volume 225 -----------------------