From: Gretchen Miller Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 18:44:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 230, 2/20/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 230, February 20, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Still looking for particolored cotehardie references Historical maternity wear Women shaving, et al. Costuming book catalogue Where to see "The Madness of King George" in the SF Bay area Fitting T-Tunics All about Rainments Books about corsets ISO: Detailed instructions on wearing the great kilt Buttoning which side Cloak closures The return of the corset ----------------------- From: Title-L_at_nctsw-n92@smtpgw.nctsw.navy.mil Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 09:33:57 -0500 Subject: particoloring, part II Many Thanks to those who offered potential sources for women in particolored cotehardies - but unfortunately none of these references have panned out. Can we try again? Some folks I've been talking to about this say that the reason I'm not finding anything is that particoloring in cotehardies is actually a form of personal livery, using household colors, worn (at least in that time period) mostly by personal/house servants, and that it didn't become generally fashionable until used in houppelandes. Women thus would't have been portrayed doing jobs that wore such livery. I must admit that this seems true for the male sources I'm finding - a turnspit, a senior gardener, a carver-at-table - but I wonder why Christine Pisan's _The City of Women_ doesn't show any women in livery/particoloring? A fluke of the artist? Maybe those women are all free/not in personal service? Any comments on this? Here's what came out of the latest search: Maggie Black's _The Medieval Cookbook_ ( a fine source for both cookery and costume!) shows a male turnspit in particoloring, and a lovely Saint Barbara wearing a short-sleeved orange cotehardie with contrast bands at cuff/hem/collar over the basic blue undergown (the first time I've seen _that_, but a little suspect as a Dead Saint Painting; I understand that religious figures were often portrayed in outlandish clothing). The Salome in the National Gallery is the one source I remembered; in addition to particoloring, there are horizontal gold bands of decoration every few inches on the entire gown. I'm reluctant to base a project solely on this, it seems so much like a true Dead Saint outfit. I've been unable to locate the French music book offered as a source by Dee Andrea; bibliographic info would be appreciated. Thanks again, Lynn ----------------------- From: Mrs C S Yeldham Date: 14 Feb 95 14:57:00 GMT Subject: Pregnancy I have seen one picture involving a dress evidently designed for pregancy. In Ashelford's Visual History of the 16th century' there is a picture of a late 16th century lady obviously very heavily pregnant, wearing a gown which does not fit any other period style. It is low cut over the breasts, tied under the breasts and then smooth over the bump. It appears to be made out of a cream or white brocade, with pearls of differing sizes outlining the brocade design. Over it she is wearing a dark over gown which forms a background to the full sleeves, again with pearls outlining the brocade design. This is one I want to make, if I ever have a suitable bump! There is another gown design from the late 16th century, which appears to be worn only by women with children, who may or may not be pregnant, but certainly don't have the virginal figure of the Queen. This is a round bodice without the prominant V of the usual style, with a barrel'like appearance accentuated by rows of horizontal braid. The usually pale fabric between these rows of braid is slashed to show a dark ground. They are worn with the normal skirts of the period, french wheel farthingale. They seem to be much easier to wear for women with post-partum figures than the deep V usually worn. Just some comments Caroline ----------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 11:10:54 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Findlay Subject: RE: Shaving my mother told me of a practice of removing hair in the 20's. they put a flamable liquid on the arms and legs. they burned the hair off and it never came back. it must have worked because she never had to shave anything. robin ----------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 11:04:35 PST From: susanf@EERC.Berkeley.Edu (Susan Fatemi) Subject: catalogue I found this on one of my other lists: catalogue of books on costume & fashion history, catalog #102 (free cat.) e-mail: legenda@ix.netcom.com mail: Golden Legend, Inc. 7615 Sunset Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90046 phone: 213/850-5520 fax: 213/850-1524 I think it's an antiquarian outfit, so may be pricey (no affiliation, honest!) Susan Fatemi ----------------------- From: jeff.sargent@hmg.com Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 09:47:15 Subject: Re[2]:Where to See Madness of King George When in the Bay Area (SF) try the Bridge Theatre on Geary (right near Masonic). Hey - I don't know much from sewing, but I know where to find a good movie! So sue me. -jef ----------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 11:27:13 -0800 (PST) From: samhainsghost Subject: Re: T-Tunic Necklines blush blush Jeez thanks..I thought my underarms were getting really fat the first time I tried it :) ------------------------------------------------------ Value your friends...some people don't have any....there are grumpy old men dying of a lack of hugs somewhere . SAMHAIN@PACIFICRIM.NET ------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Gail DeCamp wrote: > > > > Greetings! > > Beverly Roden says this: > > >Now, if you're making the t-tunic in the quick and dirty style (lay on > >the fabric which is on the floor, mark a neck and where your underarm > >is, angle out (and down) to hem, and draw a line out from the underarm > >to the > >selvedge to make the sleeves, sew, and whalla, instana-garb), > > I have only one caveat: Please take into account that the person is not > two-dimensional. If you mark exactly where their armpit is, the tunic will not > fit--add some garment ease. (Apologies if this is blazingly obvious to everyone > on the list. I made this mistake, and it was very embarrassing.) > > Gail DeCamp > Speaking from, not for, Network General Corporation > > ----------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 11:52:59 -0800 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Swedish Dress A book on Swedish dress that might help is "Folk Costumes of Sweden-A living Tradition" by Inga Arno-Berg & Gunnel Hazelius-Berg, 1975 It has full colour plates of clothing from each specific region & town, with descriptions & the date the costume was developed ( a lot seem to have become "folk dress" in the late 17th-early 18th C). I think, from most portraits of upper-class Scandinavians I've seen, that the rich would have worn "Paris Fashions" unless they were deliberatly wearing folk dress as a "costume". There was a big folk dress revival movement in most of Scandinavia during late 1800's-early 1900's when it was a fad to wear "peasant dress" at various summer resorts & certain festivals. Hope this helps. Alison ----------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:13:07 -0800 (PST) From: samhainsghost Subject: samhainsghost (fwd) This is in response to the where to find a corset question I'm sorry to take up so much space on the list, but thought it might be of some general interest. ------------------------------------------------------- Value your friends...some people don't have any....there are grumpy old men dying of a lack of hugs somewhere . SAMHAIN@PACIFICRIM.NET -------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: 13 Feb 95 00:45:34 EST >From: Gary Anderson <72437.674@compuserve.com> >To: samhainsghost >Subject: samhainsghost Ook only allegedly tame. Many people think Ook tame when only waiting opportunity. Strong like Bull. Smart like Tractor. Keeper of faithful Catalog Cruncher machine. Machine smart. Eat many catalogs. Maybe Ook get that smart if also eat many catalogs? By way of introduction - we are Raiments, a source for costume patterns, books, and supplies, as well as some articles like corsets, hoop skirts, hoop wire, corset stays, busks, etc. Primarily a mail order company, we have a 160 page illustrated catalog of our wares. Patterns: We sell over 1220 patterns from about AD 650 to the 1950's, with lots of Civil War, Renaissance, Old West, Edwardian, and ethnic. The catalog has buying guide information and sizing instructions where necessary. Books: The book selection includes over 650 selections, ranging from general costume histories and techniques to specific time periods and locations. The book list is categorized by general reference, time period, and specialty (hats, shoes, techniques/reference, etc.) with a description of each book. Underpinnings: Corsets (Elizabethan, pointed front, tabbed waist, back lacing, X-small, small, medium, large, X-large, Queen, special). Corset kits (1830-40 cotton drill or linen, 1850 cotton sateen or cotton drill, Edwardian cotton coutil, 1870-1890 cotton coutil, or Renaissance tabbed). Round hoop skirts (3, 4, and 5 wire, cotton with covered boning, steel hoop, drawstring waist, ruffled and unruffled for the 4 and 5 wire, XL and XXL available to waist 72 inches). Elliptical hoop skirts (5 wire with and without ruffles). 1880s bustles (steel hooping with coutil). 18th century bucket panniers. 18th century sloped full court panniers, and 18th century full court tabletop panniers. Supplies: Corset stays, 6 to 16.5 inches in half inch increments, 1/4 inch white spring steel (18th century-Victorian), 1/2 inch white spring steel (Tudor-18th century), and 1/4 inch steel spirals (late Victorian-Edwardian - to 14 inches only). Corset busks 11 or 12 inches long. Bone casing for 1/4 and 1/2 inch stays (so you can remove/replace the stays for washing, etc.). Corset laces, black or white, with finished ends 3 yds or 5 yds long. Corset coutil 100% cotton, 45 inches wide. Brass grommets in 3, 2, 1, 0, 00 - the 0 comes in brass, silver, and black. Eyelets in silver or black. 1 inch white twill tape. Heavy theatrical weight buckram in 45 inch width. Millinery wire, 20 and 80 yard reel. Wire joiners for millinery wire. Hatpins. Horsehair braid, softweight and heavyweight. Steel hoop wire in 12 yard reel. U-tips for the hoop wire ends. Extra heavy hook and eye tape, black and white. Rigilene 1/2 inch wide, black and white. "Whopper popper" giant snaps. Orvus quilt soap. Sew-on points. Military buttons - gold with shank, size 30 (with eagle). Cloak clasps (heavy duty) and decorative clasps, assorted kinds. Beading, milliner's, and leather needles. Accessories: Snoods, cotton crochet in black or white (dyable) or silk-look rayon crochet in 12 colors. Stockings, 100% cotton in white (dyable) or black, sizes 8 1/2 (for shoe size 5 1/2 to 7 1/2) and 10 (for shoe sizes 8 to 10). Gloves, women's black or white nylon stretch lace, or fingerless demi-gloves in black stretch lace; and men's white cotton or nylon with wrist snap. Of course, we have lots of other stuff, but there isn't room enough to list it all. To see it all, get our catalog. It is available for $5.00 (and includes a coupon worth $5.00 of any order over $50.00) from: Raiments PO Box 93095 Pasadena, CA 91109 Phone: 818-797-2723 Tues-Thurs 10am-4PM PST for live person FAX: 818-791-9434 Email: Compuserve 72437,674 INTERNET: 72437.674@compuserve.com We take Visa and Mastercard. A 5% electronic handling fee is charged. ----------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 16:29:32 -0600 (CST) From: Cynthia Lucille Rosser Subject: RE: Shaving On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Robin Findlay wrote: > my mother told me of a practice of removing hair in the 20's. > they put a flamable liquid on the arms and legs. > they burned the hair off and it never came back. > it must have worked because she never had to shave anything. > > robin > Not a solution that I would care to try or recommend!!! ----------------------- From: "Heather L. Garvey" Subject: Re: T-Tunic Necklines Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 17:27:37 -0600 (CST) * blush blush Jeez thanks..I thought my underarms were getting really fat * the first time I tried it :) * * On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Gail DeCamp wrote: *>I have only one caveat: Please take into account that the person is not *>two-dimensional. If you mark exactly where their armpit is, the tunic will *>not fit--add some garment ease. (Apologies if this is blazingly obvious *>to everyone on the list. I made this mistake, and it was very embarrassing.) One easy way to get around this is to find a nice T-shirt in your wardrobe and trace it onto the fabric. :) Gives the right amount of ease and (if you aren't trying to suck the last bit of cloth out of what you have), you can always trim it closer afterwards. :) I went to Pennsic in some rather baggy tunic-gowns, but I'm tightening the sleeves and bringing in the waist in my spare time now that I'm not under the gun time-wise. :) ------------------------------------------------------ Heather Garvey Phone: (708) 632-3790 Motorola Cellular, ITS, Rm 2231 E-mail: garvey@cig.mot.com ------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 22:12:12 -0600 (CST) From: Cynthia Lucille Rosser Subject: Re: samhainsghost (fwd) Re: Corsets...some books that should be available at your local library or through interlibraryloan. Shep, R.L. "Corsets: a visual history" (235 pgs), 1993. Crawford, M.D.C. "The History of corsets in pictures" (41pgs). If you have access to UCLA library look for: Picken, Mary Brooks "Beautiful Clothes; corsets & dress foundations..." Women's Institute of Domestic Arts, 1924. ----------------------- From: HCS9@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 02:00:08 -0500 Subject: Re: RE: shaving The concept of women being "hairless" - the presence of hair being seen as an outward sign of sin (hence men were allowed hair, but women were not) dates back at least to the middle ages when depilatories were in favor. Things like quicklime were recommended. Yike! Helen Stringer ----------------------- From: CGodfrey10@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 04:00:07 -0500 Subject: kilts Hi. Can anyone provide me with detailed, and illustrated, step-by-step instructions for the wearing of a great kilt (pheligh mor) ? I also need to know how much fabric(width of and length) necessary to make one? Thanks, Derek Aonghus (SCA) ----------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 10:25:01 GMT From: Alan Braggins Subject: Buttoning side. > > 1 felt that women's blouses were designed to make it easier for the man > > to get into, an idea of which I must admit has some appeal. (OK, to > > be fair, he didn't put it quite that way...) I was merely passing along another "I read somewhere that..." version. However, I now have a theory that combines several of the suggestions made here (but has no other supporting evidence). Men's coats traditionally button left over right because its easier to draw a sword, and this tradition persisted even when swords were only worn with ceremonial uniforms. When clothing started being mass-produced, this standard was extended to shirts, waistcoats, trouser flys, and other clothing that doesn't interfere with swords that were no longer being worn anyway, with womens clothing buttoning the other way for differentiation. Any women who complained that it was more difficult to do up/undo were told not to be so fussy and that they ought to have a maid to do it for them anyway. BTW, I've seen photos of carvings of Roman officers wearing their swords on the right. While drawing a short sword worn on the right right handed is much easier than drawing something the length of a rapier, it still slightly surprised me - anyone know more about the reasons? > Subject: Re: Cloaks (fwd) > Does anyone have any preferred methods of CLOSING the front of the > cloak? (Ties? Buttons?) Since the cloak I'll be making first is for a > friend who doesn't really care, it doesn't matter what period the > closure is from (although it might be neat to know. It's not that > important though. :) I've got a cloak which closes with two leather patches sewn on, which buckle together. Not remotely period though. The cloak does hang so that the closures are together when they aren't done up - I wouldn't like to a cloak that relied on its closure to stay on (except for violent movement), especially not a neck fastening (mine is chest height). I've got a penannular brooch I use as a shoulder fastening sometimes. ----------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 07:59:01 CDT From: SANDY STAEBELL To: H-Costume@ANDREW.CMU.EDU Subject: More on shaving I have a mid-1920s Charles Williams Stores catalog that features several hair removal preparations. The first is Empress Hair Remover which for 47 cents "keeps your face, arms and under arms smooth and clear." It is also described as sweetly fragrant. This catalog also advertises a depilatory called Charmeste Hair Remover that came in powder or liquid form and would remove superfluous hair from the face, arms and neck. For those who didn't have enough hair, you could buy Vendora Scalp Cream! Sandy Staebell The Kentucky Museum Western Kentucky University Bowling Green, Kentucky 42101 STAEBSL@wkuvx1.wku.edu ----------------------- From: "Pamela C. Rowe" Subject: Re: corsets (early 20th century) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 08:53:05 -0600 (CST) I'm not sure if this is of general interest in regard to this thread, but I saw a copy of the May 1994 issue of _Vogue_ while I was in a waiting room the other day. There was a one page spread showing about nine corsets which were supposed to be offered as current fashion (probably couture-level fashion). I did not get a chance to really look at the spread as my appointment came up, but maybe someone else could look this up at a local library. Hope this helps. Pam Rowe prowe@us1.navo.navy.mil > > Is this an item which can still be purchased commercially? Apparently > these were the ordinary corsets worn by women from about 1900 on, and even > Sears sold them until about 15 years ago...at that time made by Cortland > Corset Company in Cortland, NY. > > If you have any sources for these corsets or their consituent parts, please > email me!! (Thank you very much!) > > Dawn E. Nakroshis > dawn@us.net > ----------------------- End of Volume 230 -----------------------