From: Gretchen Miller Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:27:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 234, 2/22/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 234, February 22, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Mid-18thC hunting smock Highland Renaissance Reenactors Guild announcement Menstruation Janet Arnold 16th C shirts article ISO: Source for Japanese filiment or "flat" silk floss Question and answer: New Folkwear patterns Adapting cotehardies for big-busted women ISO: Costume journals Late 19th C Austrian uniforms Staylace association announcement ----------------------- From: RCarnegie@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 04:24:08 -0500 Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume ... A 1750s through 1760 hunting smock does not really require a pattern. It is just a series of rectangless of differing sizes. There are instructions in both Beth Guilguin's book, and Rural Pennsylyania. The cut is exactly the same as any other shirt, but larger to be worn over clothing. R Carnegie ----------------------- From: HsMacDonel@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 22:13:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Renaissance Re-enactment Richard and Diane Hills are proud to announce the formation of HIGHLAND RENAISSANCE RE-ENACTORS GUILD/CLAN CAMPBELL formerly House MacDonnell of Clan MacIain, this new scottish clan plans to attend various events through out California. We sincerely look forward to sharing this adventure with you. For more information call (510) 439-7343 or E-mail HsMacDonell ----------------------- From: NeenH@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 23:14:11 -0500 Subject: Re: More Menstruation >My grandmother told me about making "granny rags" out >of old sheets and cotton batting in the early 20th >Century cotton batting in the early 20th Century to use >during her period, these were washed out & used >repeatedly until they were too worn. This is getting absurd, but here goes: I don't know how the rags were held on during various time periods, when they didn't have snug-fitting pants/bloomers, I don't know if they were pinned, or belted on, but I do know that an oblong cotton envelope, with a flat, folded flannel piece inside (or terry), when worn in snug underwear, absorbs well, doesn't leak, shift, itch, or stick, and is surprisingly comfortable (they mold to the body, and breath), as compared to commercial disposable paper/plastic/gel products. And they are easy to wash (easier than diapers). So, it wasn't THAT bad. NeenH ----------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 23:14:34 -0800 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Menstuation Some of the information I remember from the ITAA presenter said she had looked in the US Patent Office files to find all the various designs for menstrual products which had been registered. I also found some discreetly advertised products, like cotton napkins & rubber-lined bags to carry used ones in, in some early 1900-1910's mail-order catalogues. Most of the information the presenter had got from interviews with older women mentioned the cotton rags, sometimes tied to a waistband with string or tape to hold them. Alison ----------------------- From: TheaG@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 09:55:44 -0500 Subject: 15-th century shirts This source is a little later period than you asked but may be of some help. I ILL'd this article about 3 years back and have used it extensively. From: Waffen- und Kost=FCmkunde - - M=FCnchen, Berlin: Beutscher Kunstverlag, 1959-- - v?", pt2 (1977): pp 89-110 By: Janet Arnold Title: Elizabethan and Jacobean Smocks and Shirts ISBN # 0042-9945 (for this journal) Ms. Arnold discusses smocks (women's garments) and shirts (men's) in detail and gives lots of paintings as reference. There are pictures of 4 extant sources, two of which she graphs out in patterns (one for women, one for men). Does anyone know of other periodical articles published by Ms. Arnold? I also have one from the same journal describing in detail a black velvet women's doublet preserved in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum, N=FCrnberg. FYI: Both of the articles I mentioned are in English. Looking at the contents page of the journal, (which came with my ILL request) most of the articles in this journal are in German with a few in English. Thea ----------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 13:48:33 -0600 (CST) From: Cynthia Lucille Rosser Subject: Re: More Menstruation On Sat, 18 Feb 1995 NeenH@aol.com wrote: > >My grandmother told me about making "granny rags" out >of old sheets and > cotton batting in the early 20th > >Century cotton batting in the early 20th Century to use >during her period, > these were washed out & used >repeatedly until they were too worn. > > This is getting absurd, but here goes: > I don't know how the rags were held on during various time periods, when they > didn't have snug-fitting pants/bloomers, I don't know if they were pinned, or > belted on, but I do know that an oblong cotton envelope, with a flat, folded > flannel piece inside (or terry), when worn in snug underwear, absorbs well, > doesn't leak, shift, itch, or stick, and is surprisingly comfortable (they > mold to the body, and breath), as compared to commercial disposable > paper/plastic/gel products. And they are easy to wash (easier than diapers). > So, it wasn't THAT bad. > > NeenH I am I the only person on this list old enough to remember sanitary belts? These were similar to garter belts, but used to hold sanitary pads in place before all pads started being made with adhesive strips. Sanitary belts were used with home-made pads before the commercial products were readily available. Also check out some of the 1880-90s Sears & Montegomery Wards catalog reproductions, there are discreate ads for female products including menstrual pads. ----------------------- From: GRUNDYC@Underdale.UniSA.edu.au Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 08:27:34 +0930 Subject: Various G'day folks. There are several things I would like to mention. Firstly, thanks very much to all of you who responded to my request for assistance in locating Atira. I can happily tell you that due to your efforts there are now a lot of well-garbed belly- dancers around town. Re Menstruation : When I was at High School (The Sixties) at least one of my friend was using rag pads which were held in place by safety pins attached to her singlet (aka vest) Another request : Do any of the embroiderers among you know of a source for the filament or "flat" silk which is used for embroidering Japanese kimonos? I recently attended classes for needle painting and the tutor, who had worked in Japan said that some of her silks were from the US. There is nothing like it available Downunder and I would dearly like to get my hands on some. From what I can recall of hers they were wound onto tubes of what looked like white plastic approximately 10 cm long, somewhat reminiscent of sewing thread spools but longer. The tutor said that there was a huge range of colours available. Any source would be appreciated, particularly mail order. Many thanks Cate Grundy Joan Brewer Library University of South Australia grundyc@unisa.edu.au ----------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 14:14:20 -0800 From: Alison Kondo Subject: New Folkwear patterns? I've seen a couple new patterns advertised from Folkwear, including some 1910's-20's-ish ones. Has anybody tried them yet? If you have, I'd love to have a review of them. Alison ----------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 20:18:08 -0500 (EST) From: Elizabeth McMahon Subject: Re: More Menstruation On Sun, 19 Feb 1995, Cynthia Lucille Rosser wrote: > I am I the only person on this list old enough to remember sanitary > belts? These were similar to garter belts, but used to hold sanitary pads > in place before all pads started being made with adhesive strips. NOt at all. My Mom, modern woman though she be started me off with such a belt for my first period 19 years ago. I finally convinced her by the second that the kind with adhexive would do nicely, thank you. And that summer she showed me how to use the tampons she'd been using for years. Freedom, after those icky pads! My husband just commented (in answer to my trying to figure out when my first period was, and very confused as to its relevance to anything, he was!) that he thought sanitary napkins were developed during WW I by a group of war nurses in France. Anyboday have any more corroboration of this? And I apologize for any unnecessary graphic-ness. -*-*- Beth McMahon ----------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 18:04 EST From: dawn@babel.DIALix.oz.au (Dawn Elson) Subject: cotehardie support Martha The advice that I was given when I asked the same question of a local Laurel(SCA) was to construct another cotehardie as an underdress but make it TIGHT, particularly between the base af the bust and the waist. The fabric must be fairly tough, say cotton drill or something, and you cut the neckline slightly lower than the over dress.You also would probably need to lace it in a different place than the overdress. Under the arm may work, less distance of straining laces. My friend who did this said that it worked quite well although she is not quite of your dimensions. >Anyone know how I can go about making sure I have support? I know a >corset is not truely period to wear under such a garment. Would a lady >with my, ahem, endowments have done anything way back then? Breast >bindings or something? Where can I find references? Dawn -------------------------------+----------------------------- Dawn Elson | dawn@babel.dialix.oz.au -------------------------------+----------------------------- ----------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 11:19:37 -0600 (CST) From: Jennifer Kubenka Subject: Costuming periodicals/journals? Something I have been wondering about, and have had little luck finding, is information about periodicals and journals that include articles about costuming. Even though I work in a library, the Arts Index, the Humanities Index, and the Social Sciences Index provide very little information about costuming, needlework, and associated topics. I would love to know what kinds of periodical and journals exist. I know of Pieceworks and Threads, but these are both needlecraft-oriented. What about costuming? Ever curious, Jennifer D. Kubenka Series Authority/Monographs Cataloger Fondren Library Southern Methodist University Dallas, Texas ----------------------- From: 2Lt Aryeh JS Nusbacher Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 224, 2/13/95 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 13:02:35 EST > Can anyone tell me what color an 1890 Austrian soldier's uniform would > have been? Imperial-and-Royal Austrian and Hungarian uniform colours of 1890 -------------------------------------------------------- (temps sein kaiserliche-und-koenigliche Hoheit Franz Josef der Erste) The key dates for late 19th century Austrian uniforms are 1866 and 1909. The old white uniforms for infantry of the line were discontinued in '66, and the WWI-era grey service dress was introduced in 1909. During the intervening years, the uniforms were as follows: Infantry, Artillery and General Service Dress --------------------------------------------- White uniforms restricted to general officers Line Units: Dark blue tunic with regimental collars and cuffs, black shako. German regiments wore blue-grey trousers, Hungarian regiments wore distinctive cuffs and pantaloons. Officers were distinguished by gold lace on their shakos, yellow waist sashes, as well as piping down the fronts of their tunics. Tyroler-Kaiser-Jaeger and rifle units: Grey uniforms with green facings, Tyrolean hats with upturned brims and cock-feather cockades. Undress ------- Officers: Black kepi, dark blue bluse with 4 pockets, regimental collar patches with rank stars. Other Ranks: Bluse with roll on right shoulder, light blue feldkappe with black leather peak, yellow cockade, and earflaps which button above the peak. Artillery did not wear the feldkappe. Jaeger and rifle units: Hechtgrau (light grey) bluse Cavalry and Honved Infantry --------------------------- Honved infantry: Dark blue frocks with red braiding on collar and cuffs, light blue pantaloons piped in red, normal feldkappe. Dragoons: Black leather fore-and-aft helmet, with gilt or brass ornaments and Imperial plates. Feldkappe all of madder-red cloth. Single-breasted tunic with regimental collar and cuffs. Light blue pelisse with black astrakhan collar. Madder-red breeches. Black boots. Hussars: Regimental shako, straight black horsehair plume, madder-red feldkappe. Light or dark blue attila trimmed with black and yellow cord. Pelisse lined with black astrakhan. Tight madder-red pantaloons with Hessian boots. Lancers: Chapska with the top of regimental colour, and black horsehair plume. Madder-red feldkappe. Unlanka of light blue with three outside pockets and a madder-red collar and cuffs. Light blue pelisse, madder-red breeches and dragoon boots. Landwehr cavalry: As lancers or dragoons. Honved cavalry: As hussars with regimental shakos, madder-red feldkappe, dark blue frocks faced and trimmed with red, dark blue pelisse with red trim and white fur, madder-red pantaloons with red trimming and hussar boots. Honved units were ethnic Hungarians in a traditional uniform. Source _Battledress_ -- the name of the author escapes me. Cheers, Aryk Nusbacher | "Sailors were fed food that had Post-Graduate War Studies Programme | deliberately been made to taste bad." Royal Military College of Canada | CBC News on the Navy's "Crossing the Line" ritual, 9 Feb 95 ----------------------- From: Staylace@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 09:36:41 -0500 Subject: Long Island Staylace Association The LONG ISLAND STAYLACE ASSOCIATION is a group consisting of individuals who believe that there is little more erotically artistic than women clad in corsets of the eighteenth and nineteenth century (what is popularly known as "Victorian" corsetry). We do everything we can to further their use and acceptance. On occasion, I give live demonstrations/lectures in New York City and the Northeast. If you wish a copy of the handout I distribute after my lectures, just send me a mailing address and $4. to cover postage and handling -- I will be glad to forward it to you. It contains everything from sources to organizations to publications to shows. Kindest Regards, Thomas B. Lierse lONG ISLAND STAYLACE ASSOCIATION P.O. Box 12142 Hauppauge, NY 11788 ----------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 10:08:34 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Coffey Subject: Re: More Menstruation I remember about 30 years or so ago, just after my first 'period' being caught at my grandmother's without any necessary supplies. She helped me with the problem by folding rags with some cotton batting (previously mentioned). She was born in the 1880's. I don't remember how she said they fastened them in the 1890's undergarments, but I do remember her saying that she and her sisters were always responsible for washing out their own rags. ----------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 20:42:12 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: Early 12th century head covering Suzanne Lively wrote: :Does anyone have any specific facts about what women wore on their head :during the early 12th century? Just so happens I've been doing a major research project in just this area. Generally they wore a headdrape called a wimpel or guimpel. It was a rectangle of fabric which was draped around the head and under the chin. If loosely draped it could be held in place by a wreath of flowers (real or metal), a jeweled band, or a band of embroidered fabric. If tightly wrapped around the head, the end was twisted and wound around the head to act as its own headband. Also, the hair was done in two long braids, to which false hair could be added or braid cases (stuffed) used to extend them. If a guimpel was not used, the hair would be held in place by the same sorts of things (called by a variety of names which translate as wreath, circlet and embroidered band) used to hold the loosely draped guimpel in place. June Russell pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ----------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 15:57:36 -0800 (PST) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Re: More Menstruation > > I am I the only person on this list old enough to remember sanitary > > belts? These were similar to garter belts, but used to hold sanitary pads > > in place before all pads started being made with adhesive strips. I remember them well--they were the only option when I was in my teens (in the 60s). I don't know when things changed because I converted to tampons shortly there-after and didn't start using pads again until the big Toxic Shock Scare. I remember thinking at the time that it was interesting that the technology of "feminine hygiene" had improved so much just about the same time women moved significantly into the work force and had control of their own money. Also reported here last time around was the practice of tucking the back hem of a petticoat into the front waist and inserting the rags in between the body and the petticoat. ALL of these must have made trips to the privy an even bigger hassle than otherwise. > My husband just commented (in answer to my trying to figure out when my > first period was, and very confused as to its relevance to anything, he > was!) that he thought sanitary napkins were developed during WW I by a > group of war nurses in France. Anyboday have any more corroboration of > this? There is a family legend that a great uncle who was in the rag trade was approached by a Mr. Modess about a joint venture and said "don't be silly--women wouldn't pay for THAT when they can be rags". Don't know how true it is, but the timing is right. (And nurses during the great war would have had access to cotton lint and would not have had great laundry facilities.) > And I apologize for any unnecessary graphic-ness. Not to give Beth a hard time or anything, but my feminist self wonders why we are all kind of tip-toeing around a subject that is, after all, a fact of life and dealt with for half the population for probably about half of their lives. ----------------------- End of Volume 234 -----------------------