From: Gretchen Miller Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 16:25:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 236, 2/24/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 236, February 24, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Costume periodicals New folkwear pattern reviews Sewing machine advice Cape and cloak construction Particolor documentation Menstruation Arguments with staylace Maternity clothing Putting on the great kilt Niello ISO: Info on autocad programs for design ----------------------- From: SLNZC@cc.usu.edu Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 13:32:40 -0600 (MDT) Subject: costume periodicals No one has yet mentioned the periodical _Dress_, put out by the American Costume Society (I think that's who publishes it). Theresa ----------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 14:12:25 PST From: Loren_Dearborn@casmail.calacademy.org (Loren Dearborn) Subject: Re: New Folkwear patterns? > I've seen a couple new patterns advertised from Folkwear, >including some 1910's-20's-ish ones. Has anybody tried >them yet? If you have, I'd love to have a review of them. I'm also curious about these. The ad I saw was a little flyer that came with my last shipment from Amazon that just gave the ames of the new patterns but no pictures. Anyone seen or made any of these? I'm specifically interested in the Edwardian 1915 "traveller", the Gallenga 1920's gown and the day dress of 1922. Thanks for any info. Loren Dearborn ldearborn@calacademy.org ----------------------- From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: New Folkwear patterns? Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 14:53:58 -0800 (PST) > I'm specifically interested in the Edwardian 1915 "traveller", the I haven't seen this one yet. Details would be appreciated! > Gallenga 1920's gown and the day dress of 1922. Thanks for any info. These two I have seen. The Day Dress of 1922 is _very_ similar to 1927 Tea Frock. The skirt is fuller, with some smocking, but otherwise the look is almost identical. I'm not sure that Folkwear actually _made_ this pattern, but it was advertised as coming "Later" in Amazon's "10th Year" edition catalog. It's a typical dropped waist, bias hip panel "1920-look" dress. The Gallenga 1920's gown is quite striking, imo. It's a very "medieval" looking long, floor-length dress. It's basically two rectangular panels, one forming the front of the dress and one the back. The back can be made longer than the front. It has a squarish neckline. The dress is tacked at the hips, forming a sort-of loose dart, with a button-and-loop combo. Kind of like: ----- ------ | | | | | ----- | | | | | | | | | | o o | | o o | <-- two pleats formed by buttons and loops | o o | | | | | | | | | | | | | ---------------- To do the button-loop combos, you simply sew looping to the hip area for about 6" horizontally and then a line of corresponding buttons, parallel, about 4" away from the loops. Button up the loops and you've got your "fitted" gown. The sleeves are quite interesting on this gown, and are what "make" it imo. The sleeve pattern is slit in half, down the *outer arm* of the sleeve, from wrist to armcye. The front-side sleeve pattern has an extra triangle at the wrist, giving it that "medieval" look. The back-side pattern does not have this addition. You make up your sleeves *leaving the outer-arm not sewn together*. Instead, you fully line the sleeve, and turn it right side out through the armcye area and insert lining and sleeve into the armhole as if it was one layer. Your outer arm (ie. the top of the sleeve) is open and finished, due to being fully lined previously. Now you take large beads and sew them down the center of the open outer arm, catching both sides and closing the sleeve around the beads as you sew. View from the top: /-----\ <-- armhole, attached to dress / o \ | o | | o | < -- o = bead | o | | o | | o | | o | \ o / \ / \/ <-- "fancy" wrist treatment I hope my drawings make sense! I've never been very good at ascii renderings. :-) -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 18:13:32 EST Subject: Re: Stupid sewing machine!!! Try adding a layer of plain old ordinary typing or copier paper as an extra layer. It may help the tension and you can tear it off when you're done. I've found that when adjusting the tension doesn't help, get a toothbrush or other small brush and clean out the bobbin case. Also, you may need a heavier or lighter needle. Without that extra layer, you may nee to go from a 12 or 13 to an 11 size needle. Or your needle may be blunt and therefore not picking up the bobbin thread. Sorry for so many options. Hope this helps. Kathleen Norvell KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM ----------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 18:48:02 -0500 (EST) From: Elizabeth McMahon Subject: Re: Cloaks kinsale and circle On Tue, 14 Feb 1995 NeenH@aol.com wrote: > > Circle cloaks were pieced. In the book Tidings from the 18th. Century, she > shows how to do it very nicely. I recommend boiling the wool in a big > lobster pot to full it first. I did this for my kids' cloaks. They are nice > and thick! (but I am having trouble getting the boiling wrinkles out, warmth > for toddlers in camp is more important, and boy, are the little red mounds on > feet cute!) Its the heat, moisture and agitation that felt or full wool. A lot easier way to accomplish this is just to put the cloth in the washing machine, and then in the dryer. Wash it in hot water with an non-alkili detergent (not a heavy duty detergent, but something more like Woolite or dish soap), and put it in a hot dryer. It also prevents the wrinkles boiling produces. It is my understanding (but not my research, so I can't give you sources without a little checking around) that wool in the middle ages was more thoroughly fulled than a lot of the stuff available to us now. To this end, I frequently wash my wools before I sew them. It beefs them up a bit. I tend to drip dry them, since I'm usually out for fine garment weights, not coating weights. -*-*- Beth McMahon, catching up at last on the last few weeks mail ----------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 19:18:49 -0500 (EST) From: Elizabeth McMahon Subject: Re: particoloring, part II On Tue, 14 Feb 1995 Title-L_at_nctsw-n92@smtpgw.nctsw.navy.mil wrote: > > Some folks I've been talking to about this say that the reason I'm not > finding anything is that particoloring in cotehardies is actually a form > of personal livery, using household colors, worn (at least in that time > period) mostly by personal/house servants, and that it didn't become > generally fashionable until used in houppelandes. Women thus would't have > been portrayed doing jobs that wore such livery. I must admit that this > seems true for the male sources I'm finding - a turnspit, a senior gardener, > a carver-at-table - but I wonder why Christine Pisan's _The City of Women_ > doesn't show any women in livery/particoloring? A fluke of the artist? > Maybe those women are all free/not in personal service? > Any comments on this? This doesn't fit what I've been seeing of parti-coloring. If anything, I'd surmise that parti-ing was actually a late 12th and 13th C. fashion that eeked its way into the early Gothic era and then faded away. If you look at 13th C. costume sources, esp the men, you see a lot of stripes and a lot of side by side parti coloring. In particular, a friend of mine photographed a 13th C. falconry treatise (in facsimile at Columbia Univ) that has page after page of falconers in *REALLY* obnoxiously colored and striped overtunics, with a lot of parti color shown as well. When you get to the 14th C., I think the fashion for parti-ing was strongest in the first half of the century, and developed into the love of heraldic display that really gets going during this time. Most of the sources I've seen pictured with parti women's wear are from the first quarter or half of the 15th c, and may be French. In particular, there's a French manuscript of young couples in the new and fashionable *tight* cote-hardies where there is a lot of parti-ing (and partying, from the looks of it ;*) I'll look up this source from home if you're interested in it. I also think there's something else at play, here. I think Hollywood, theatre and the SCa have all chosen certain fashion heuristics for certain fashionable eras, and I've noticed that as I start to carefully study any era, that I'm always surprised by what I'm looking at. The media and the costumers around me frequently have led me to expect a different proportion of styles of dress or of dominant fashionable to less fashionable dress than what I find in the depictions made during the era. Or, worse, have made me believe that certain types of trimmings or gowns are real even when they are not. A good example of this is the ever popular mythic cuff point that comes down to the middle finger in "Medieval" dress of even some very good TV and movies. AUGH! Even Cadfael, who did a nice job with many things, brought back this bit for Cadfael's long ex-sweetie. This is particularly the case when a piece of research is done, no matter how erudite or casual, and then a type of clothing becomes known as **THE** dress/gown/tunic, etc appropriate to an era. People these days don't all wear the same clothes in teh same ways with the same accessories, and neither did people in the past. As I said, its really an hueristic (sp?), a sort of shorthand version of the idea it expresses. I know this happens in the Medieval organization the SCA. I'd be really curious to find out how this sort of thing affects other reeenactment groups who are dealing with much shorter periods of time in their reenactment, or who have a lot more extant garments to work from. If people feel their comments aren't appropriate to the list, write me personally. -*-*- Beth in the office 212-741-4400 ----------------------- Subject: Re: Subject: Re: More Menstruation Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 19:58:30 -0500 From: Babs Woods All this talk about how women have dealt with menstruation's mess in former times also begs the question of these methods and changes in women's social activies, physical activities and status. This also has some effect on dress, and dress has some effect on all of this. If belts are all that are needed to hold up homemade pads, then the manufacture of commercial pads is delayed in some sense by an assumed lack of need for it. If women's habits of dress and behaviour change then such things become more readily available because we demand such things. If we're working and playing in sports, then the belt and pad become an embarassing encumberance, and so on. I look forward to more discussion on this and some citations for those of us designing costumes and everyday dress to use too. For the record, when I started out, I was appalled that the belts were all that there was. My mother, in a rare bout of helpfulness gave me some pads with adhesive backs. These were very very bulky, but as soon as I could and I knew about them I switched to tampons. They were much more discreet and could more easily fit in a child's pants pocket, since I lived out of my backpack and my pockets at school. It also meant less hassling by the boys in jr high about it, much to my relief, the girls knew what it was all about already. -babs ----------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 17:13:23 PST From: "cynthia" Subject: Re: particoloring, part II >This doesn't fit what I've been seeing of parti-coloring. If anything, >I'd surmise that parti-ing was actually a late 12th and 13th C. fashion >that eeked its way into the early Gothic era and then faded away. If you >look at 13th C. costume sources, esp the men, you see a lot of stripes >and a lot of side by side parti coloring. In particular, a friend of > >-*-*- >Beth in the office >212-741-4400 Beth and others, The following is an old note from me to h-costume about the frescos at a 14th c castle in Aosta, Italy called Issogne. Most of the Issogne outfits are parti-colored or counter-change "everyday" dress depicted in the marketplace. One of the frescos is of a tailors' shop showing fabrics on the bolts. You can find copies of the frescos in many books including _Encyclopedia of Fashion_, and the series _The History of Private Life_, vol II (highly recommended). The companion series on the private lives of women is also excellent, series name forgotten, but Vol II is _Silence of the Middle Ages_. --cin >To: Cindy at Caere, h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu at INTERNET >Subject: men's legwear and other garments 1200-1600 --------------- Message Contents ----------------------- >Does anyone have any suggestions for books that go into detail about men's >legwear from about 1200-1600? That seems to be a subject that's usually >skimmed over or not even talked about in most costuming books. A book recommendation, but I dont know how you could get it. I bought mine at the museum last June. "Costumi Issogne", published by the University of Milan (what better place to have a Fashion Department?), in paperback A4 format. In italian or french, and they were all sold out of french. Price 20,000 Lira. Castello Issogne is in the city of Issogne, in the Aosta Valley (french speaking province) of Italy. The courtyard of the castle is surround by frescos of scenes of everyday 14th century city life. Apparently, everyday scenes are rather unusual subjects for a castle. Scenes include: a butcher shop, a tavern, a tailor/fabric shop, and the castle kitchen. No churches, no royality, no fantasy saints and philosophers. Recently, students & faculty of the Univ of Milan reproduced EVERY costume in the frescos. The results are worn by 1/2 meter high dolls in the "basement" of the castle. The book gives patterns, too. Curiously, the striped hose were created by sewing together strips of different colored wools, rather than using a woven stripe fabric. As the 14th c is not my era I have no clue whether this is "not even close to correct" or "of course it's done that way". I am suspicious that they could not find the color combinations in ready-made fabric. I dont know if the Univ of Milan dyed the fabrics to historically correct colors, but they matched the frescos current colors. --cin cynthia@caere.com ----------------------- From: Staylace@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 20:13:13 -0500 Subject: Tightlacing Kathleen Norvell today posted a note, which I accidentally erased, condemning the ideals set forth by the LONG ISLAND STYLACE ASSOCIATION earlier. Allow me to respond point-by-point: 1. It is well-documented that men HAVE historically worn corsets, albeit for purposes of a trim look rather than a tiny waist. 2. Yes, indeed, I have worn corsets to experience the feel, I have found them to be rather delicious to wear. 3. Corsets are only harmful when not fitted properly and, indeed, feel rather comfortable after the first hour or so, as the organs adjust their positions. Reducing waist size is a scientific procedure which incorporates sensible "gradualness", as well as exercise and proper diet. I would be delighted tom post here, for anyone interested, an article I wrote on the subject a couple of years ago,. 4. Admittedly, there were historical abuses of the tight-laced look. However, it is always these exceptions that are pointed out by historians, art curators and critics. All in all, they produced a MAGNIFICENT exaaggeration of the female form, which is art in itself. 5. Kindly refrain from advising me to find another avocation. I am perfectly happy with this one and am surrounded by many women for whom it has proven to be a noteworthy activity (tightlacing). Feminism (or "gender feminism", as equity feminist Ms. Hopf- Sommers likes to call people of your didactic persuasion) these days has become oppressive to the freedom of choice of women, whether it be mothering, wiving and, in the case, a desire to do something different that harms no other. Of course, to you, men are a "villian" in these matters. Of course. Take your sophomoric and fascist "political correctness" elsewhere. It is fast growing out of style. Kindest Regards, Thomas B. Lierse Long Island Staylace Association ----------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 17:21:20 PST From: "cynthia" Subject: Pregnancy: a thought experiment >If women's habits of dress and behaviour change then such things >become more readily available because we demand such things. >If we're working and playing in sports, then the belt and pad >become an embarassing encumberance, and so on. >babs Lady Antonia Frasier points out in her book _Women's Lot in the Seventeen Century_ that women spent much of their lives pregnant or recovering from pregnancy or miscarriage (deliberate or natural). If this is the case, then it appears that women's everyday fashion, except for that of the child & the crone are deliberately constructed to accomodate or ignore (as high fashion does) pregnancy. BTW, is Frasier considered a reliable researcher? She's also the author of a very readable bio of Mary Queen of Scots. --cin ----------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 17:34:50 -0800 From: John Stelling Subject: Re: kilts I'm not EVEN gonna try an ascii drawing but it should be understandable. Fabric: 60" wide X 6 yards long (length can be adjusted by size) wearing: 1st you need a belt, strong & comfortable that fits you, & lay it on the ground. lay the fabric on top of the belt. (not center, mine is around 1/3 from one end, it'll change by how long your legs are. You can always move the belt up or down later) belt parallell with the 6 yards (but don't strech it out, leave it bunched up. starting one cubit in from one edge (cubit=length from your elbow to the tip of your middle finger) [don't ask me why, it just works] and pleat like there's no tommorow (anywhere from an inch to two deep seems to work for everyone I know). Keep going till you only have a cubit left on the other end unpleated. put on your lienne (you don't have to wait till now) & lay on top of the fabric with the end closest your belt just above your knees. tradition says fold the right part (that's not pleated) over you, and then the left. move the belt and buckle it TIGHT. It'll loosen up greatly when you stand up & the weight of all that wool hit's it. stand up. You might have to shuffle the belt so it sits well on your hips. the leftover fabric that was above the belt has now fallen down by your calves. Fold the tails from the front overlap back under the top & tuck it in your belt. (this is hard to visualize). Try this: take your left hand & grab the tail [corner] on the right side, reach thru the top & bottom of the kilt so you can bring you hand up and find the belt, tuck the tail into the belt & do the same with the other side. reach down & around & grab the top of the kilt now below your knees in back. the front should be fine now that you've tucked it. bring it over your left shoulder & decide how your going to attach it. That's the basics. the tucking & over-the-shoulder will take some practice & experimentation. If your in the Southwest & are going to the Astra (sp?) [Arizona] War, I have lots of freinds from my scottish re-enactment group who will be there & can help you get the hang of it. jds ======================================================== John Stelling (Computer Scientist) | Anyone can act, Naval Warfare Assessment Division | But turn out the lights and Corona, CA | ain't no one gonna see ya | do it ;-) ivan@krynn.nwac.sea06.navy.mil | ======================================================== ----------------------- From: Sarah K Bell Subject: Nielo Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 20:39:37 -0600 (CST) Please...what -is- nielo? Sarah of the Twin Horns ----------------------- From: gst6710@msu.oscs.montana.edu Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 19:52:24 MST Subject: t-tunics To all the gentlefolk who helped me out with ideas on migrating t-tunics: **Thank You*** Morgan ----------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 20:30:55 -0800 From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Re: Nielo It's a decorative jewelery technique. Don't know how it's done but it looks like the object is dipped in gold and the designs scratched away to the underlying material (usually iron, I think). You see it now mostly in Spanish "folky" jewelery and on fancy sword/knife hilts. ----------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 00:20:47 -0600 (CST) From: Gwyndlyn J Ferguson Subject: Re: Nielo On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Sarah K Bell wrote: > Please...what -is- nielo? > As I recall from my Art-history, nielo is a decorative technique used in jewelry and metalwork which involves darkening the indentations made in the metal surface. rather like "antiqueing" gold rings and such. The references to nielo that I am familiar with are from the Sutton-Hoo ship burial in England. I wrote a term paper on it way back when and I can't find it right now for any direct references. gf *Gwyn Ferguson***Western Illinois University *SCA: Lady Gwyndlyn Caer Vyrddin***Lochmorrow-Midrealm *Internet: mugjf@bgu.edu ----------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 00:27:51 -0600 (CST) From: Kerri Potratz Subject: autocad for design I was wondering if anyone has or has tried the autocad program for designing clothing/costumes. I am also interested in what you thought of it and how it compares to just actually drawing the costumes out. My rendering techniques still leave something to be desired... :) I am a senior is costume design and am interested in trying it if I can ever find someone with the program. Kerri / \/ \ *Kerri Potratz**University of South Dakota* / /\ \ *Kpotratz@sunfish.usd.edu \ \/ / \/ ==If I be waspish, best beware my sting!== Shrew, II.i ----------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 02:04:46 -0700 (MST) From: VANDERVORT VANDY Subject: NIELLO from DESIGN AND CREATION OF JEWELRY by von Neumann - Niello is a mixtue of various non-ferrous metals and sulfur which may be inlaid by fusion into grooves or depressions in a metal base (like sterling silver, karat gold, bronze, copper, and brass). It is an ancient technique, much used in the Middle East. Though it was often used in the decoration of armor and other metal work during the Renaissance, it has been used rarely in recent times. Today the center of this work is in Thailand, which produces large amounts of niello jewelry for export. see pages 115 + for more details...library should have this book. ****************************************************************************** Vandy Vandervort AKA... Vandy's Visions, Rocky Mountain Costumer's Guild Treasurer, Broomfield H.S. Art Teacher, owner of TASHI, Welsh Corgi Extraordinaire, and collector of Dragons! vandervo@spot.Colorado.EDU ----------------------- From: Mrs C S Yeldham Date: 22 Feb 95 10:27:00 GMT Subject: Some Misc Thoughts Following on from the Antionia Fraser quote (I find her reliable, and detailed as a writer, although she is rather 'literary' rather than practical, I find), it might be interesting to look at why fashions are sometimes very obviously related to pregnancy (15th century) and sometimes intolerant of pregancy (late 16th century English) when the numbers of women pregnant presumably didn't vary much? Gail de Camp - I always have that problem with sewing machines, which is why I sew by hand - it saves on hysteria! (this is meant to be a somewhat consoling remark!). STAYLACE I am beginning to feel forcefully about this, particularly after the last mailing, so please bear with me if I express myself strongly. I haven't read Kathleen's Novell's mailing that he complains about - perhaps it was private? However, I felt when reading his first mailing that his views were more closely related to some of the alt.sex lists rather than this list, but that if he had technical interests and questions, then OK. However, this list is supposed to be about the technical side of costume and reenactment, not our individual sexual preferences, and I am not interested in reading his self-justifications! If he is interested in proselytising his views then this is not the place. By the way, men telling women to be more feminist, or how to be feminist, particularly in the sexual sphere, always rings very hollow. Following this up by insults casts severe doubts on the 'feminism' of the man concerned. I don't care whether he thinks I'm perpetuating fascistic political correctness, I don't want to read this unpleasant nonsense on this list! Censorship? - nobodies stopping him writing in one of the other lists! and if I want to read it then I'll subscribe to them! Another by the way - a journalist in The Guardian (UK, somewhat left-wing, broadsheet newspaper ie a serious one) recently said that the accusation of political correctness tends to surface when right-wing men want to saywhatever unpleasant things came into their head, who object to being criticised! I think theres a lot truth in that. ----------------------- End of Volume 236 -----------------------