From: Gretchen Miller Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 19:02:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 238, 2/27/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 238, February 27, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Patterns for trews and doublet Lining definitions, please? Sewing machine woes Shoe shapes and history Underwear to shape the body Politically correct underwear Purpose of the list Siberian Ice maiden article Buttoning which sides History of women shaving Folly bells On Making your own Shoes w/biblography ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 16:45:51 EST Subject: Re[2]: trews & doublet There is an example of a leather doublet c. 1550 (?) in Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion" (the Elizabethan one). A friend is making me a leather Elizabethan fencing doublet based on this pattern. By trews do you mean the type the Scots and Irish wore (the ones with feet) during this time? If so, let me know because I have patterns.What is LHC? Kathleen Norvell KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM ----------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:34:41 -0500 From: Joe Marfice Subject: Subject: Re: skirt linings for cotehardies For the benefit of an'umble seamster what is self-taught, what do these terms mean? ... >I tend to think that flat-lining, rather than bag lining was more the >case. Elizabethian garments were often flat-lined, and the raw seams >covered over with bias strips. Flat-lining adds more structural >stability, and also makes the garment easily disassemblable (gads, what a >word!) for re-sizing and recycling. ... >kc/Roen 10-Q :{) | Broom, at The Lady Perrine | aka Joe Marfice | Ministerium honor est. \|/ which means "Don't put that in your mouth--you know where it's been!" /|\ 513-222-2330 233 Perrine Street //|\\ af289@dayton.wright.edu Dayton (my fayre citee), OH 45410 ----------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:46:38 -0500 From: Joe Marfice Subject: Subject: Re: Stupid sewing machine!!! In addition to the comments provided by and Kathleen Norvell KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM, let me add that somtimes the bobbin case (inside the bobbin race-area) may have a loose tension screw. That's the only screw on the bobbin case, which puts tension on the plate through which the thread feeds as it leaves the bobbin. (Clear? :{/ Oh, well, I am trying...) If loose, the thread _won't_ come out right no matter what else you do, but try all other ideas first, as this is 1. rare, and 2. will likely mess up good tension if there is no problem. If you decide this is the problem (once the screw begins to loosen, it loosens more easily, so this can be quite obvious), carefully tighten the screw down with a fingernail or small screwdriver until just snug, and then test for proper tension by sewing, oh, say two pieces of muslin at a low setting (low settings are rather more exacting than high ones). Adjust to suit. | Broom, at The Lady Perrine | aka Joe Marfice | Ministerium honor est. \|/ which means "Don't put that in your mouth--you know where it's been!" /|\ 513-222-2330 233 Perrine Street //|\\ af289@dayton.wright.edu Dayton (my fayre citee), OH 45410 ----------------------- From: LDulin@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:12:45 -0500 Subject: Pritchard paper Jennifer said: This method of finishing seams is documented from Saxon London, There's a paper by Francis Pritchard that describes various methods of sewing seams including this one. P.S. I can look up the name of the Pritchard paper if anyone wants it. Yes! I want it! -Leslie ----------------------- From: Mirabelle Severn & Thames Subject: shoes' pointy toes Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 14:18:17 PST During what period(s) in this century were those wider, rounder toes on high-heels stylish? The fifties? I remember trying a pair on in a costume department *years* ago, and thinking how much more comfortable they seemed to be, even though the heel was much higher than anything I ever wore (although I didn't walk in them for very long), and also how much I liked the gentle lines of the rounded toe. Naomi From: "cynthia" Subject: Re: Some Misc Thoughts Finally, if you still wish a modern example of ridiculous fashion, railed at by sensible people yet still worn because it "looks good", how 'bout the ubiquitous pointed toe shoe. --cin Cynthia@caere.com ----------------------- From: ejp@watson.ibm.com Subject: Re: Some Misc Thoughts Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 17:59:17 -0500 You got it, Cynthia. Babs Woods writes: > The Flapper Era, for example, was > an explosion in women's empowerment and a direct attack was made > on the corset as required garment. The flapper era, of course, required its own corsets, only they tightlaced the BOSOM, not the waist. I know which part is more sensitive to being squished on ME. And, given the choice between keeping my waist laced small and my legs shaved smooth, I know which takes far less time and is far more comfortable. But then, I'm a corsetiere by inclination, and know full well that corsets can be made effectively and comfortably. The day they invent comfortable empowering stubble, y'all write. :) cheers, ejp -------- Elizabeth Poole Yorktown Heights, NY ejp@watson.ibm.com ----------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 10:11:57 +1100 From: S.Randles@UTS.Edu.Au (Sarah Randles) Subject: Politically correct underwear Once the >bra became a seperate item, it too became an object of attack on >gender-political grounds when in the 1960s it became a symbol to >burn them (I suspect few were actually burned, unlike draft cards, >but it did become iconic to discuss them in terms of them being >burned as a protest act). Somewhat off on a tangent, I know, but I always felt that the feminists of the 60s got it wrong by burning bras - I feel that my bras are something that make my life more, rather than less comfortabe, being at least averagely busted. What they should have been burning (or re-cycling, to be environmentally conscious) is their nylon pantihose. The expectation that these are part of appropriate office dress, if you wear skirts, is a significant oppression, in my view. They are neither practical, economic comfortable, nor healthy. When did these things (as oppose to stockings, which are marginally better) become 'normal' wear? Let's hear it for cotton passion-killers! Sarah ************************************************************************** Sarah Randles S.Randles@uts.edu.au Research Office Telephone: (02)330 1252 University of Technology, Sydney Fax: (02)330 1252 ----------------------- From: laurence (four) hewes Subject: what's relevant Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 17:40:41 CST Fellow-subscribers, I find both the discussions of corset wearing and appreciating and of personal and historical records of menstrual dressings (?) to be interesting. I say neither of them are relevant to historical costuming. Why has no one who's objected to the irrelevance of the former topic also objected to the latter? Of course, my unfortunate suspicion is that discussing menstrual appliances (?) is not as disturbing/offensive to those respondents. Am I right? Are they equally irrelevant? Is one offensive and the other not? Am I now as guilty of digression as them (you). Am I asking for trouble? I hope so. -4 ----------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 15:49:17 PST From: susanf@EERC.Berkeley.Edu (Susan Fatemi) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 233, 2/22/95 The book that Alison was referring to, re: frozen women and their clothes in Siberia is probably: Frozen tombs of Siberia: the Pazyryk burials of Iron Age horsemen, by Sergei I. Rudenko. Published by U.C. Berkeley, ca 1970. (correct my if you meant something else, Alison) I have a book at home that I *thought* was this one, but I'm sure it's more recent and has fewer pages. It's a bit ghoulish in that it shows the man's tattooed skin. If anyone else is even remotely interested in this, I will offer what info. I can find. Susan Fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ----------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 15:57:11 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Keith Subject: Re: Buttoning side. I've been listening to the buttoning debate for a few weeks now, and I'm not convinced about the "sword drawing" explanation. I fenced in college and know that right-handed fencing is not an absolute rule; there are many left-handed fencers. I imagine this occured in past centuries as well, and if shirt openings were THAT important, then it seems reasonable to expect that we'd find some men's shirts that opened as women's do. (i.e. they would have belonged to lefties.) **Kelly Keith** e-mail kkeith@u.washington.edu ----------------------- Subject: Re: Some Misc Thoughts Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 19:01:52 -0500 From: Babs Woods Well, thank you, cin, I do stand somewhat corrected on some matters of fashion history. I do wonder why women so strongly uphold the restrictions placed on us by men, but anyway, that's for another group. The thing about shoes is also interesting, especially for someone like me who wears mostly sneakers because I have what I have come to refer to as a "boys' last" - shaped foot. Two directions here (i.e. conversation forks): 1) why are women's shoes shaped like this (???) and how and when did this start, 2) I've often toyed with the idea of making my own shoes at home, but I don't know much about it. Was it more common for people to have a specialist make soled shoes, or was it something people made at home as well? (And: where does one find wooden lasts? are there special lasts for each increment of elevation in lasts for heeled shoes?) Good discussion, -babs ----------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:55:58 -0800 From: Alexandra.Ohlson@Eng.Sun.COM (Alexandra Rankin Ohlson) Subject: Re: Buttoning side. >>I fenced in college and know that right-handed fencing is not an >>absolute rule; there are many left-handed fencers. But it was my understanding that being left-handed was not particularly acceptable in the past centuries. (And isn't the French word for left "sinistre" and the english word taken from that has bad connotations). It's my guess, though I have no proof, that swordsmen would indeed have always been right handed. alexandra ----------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:04:58 -0600 (CST) From: Helen Mayo Subject: Re: shaving My mother (born 1921) had about the same comment...it was "hygenic" to shave under your arms, but "nice" girls didn't shave their legs. Thank goodness my Dad stepped in, and bought me an electric shaver when I was 13. On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Linda Roy wrote: > My mother (born 1928 in San Francisco) told me that "nice" girls > didn't shave when she was young. Could that be a backlash to the > Flappers? ----------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:37:44 -0800 (PST) From: Gwen Carnegi Subject: Re: Folly Bells There is a copy of a fresco in Davenport's Book of Costume (ill.# 681) which shows a lady in a hoppelande. The folly bells seem to be hung on a decorated collar of some sort. The collar is about 2.5 to 3.5 inches wide and is curved so that it falls gracefully from shoulder point to shoulder point and the bells are hung from the bottom. This ill is also in Boucher's 20,000 yrs of fashion, #379-381 & look at #383 while you're there. Other ill. in Davenport are #807,808,809 also has a back view. I'm sure you can find lots of other documentation, but I'd thought I'd use Davenport & Boucher because everybody seems to have a copy somewhere :) I've been meaning to make this collar myself. Thanks for the reminder! Also, where did you find your bells? Hope this helps- Gwyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gwyn Carnegie | "The truth, they say, is relative. gcarnegi@netcom.com | Relative to what you are prepared to believe." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 17 Feb 1995 KTRuby@aol.com wrote:> > Does anyone have specific information on folly bells? (stuff deleted) > I want to put them at the neckline of my mid-15th century gown. I've mostly > seen them on sashes worn over the shoulder. Is it proper to put them on a > neckline? ----------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 17:03:58 PST From: "cynthia" Subject: Re: Some Misc Thoughts > Well, thank you, cin, I do stand somewhat corrected on some >matters of fashion history. I do wonder why women so strongly >uphold the restrictions placed on us by men, but ... And those that we place on _ourselves_ for modesty, elegance, health, competitiveness, and the ever-popular propriety. I rather doubt we can blame men for most fashion foibles. Charles Worth was fond of taking credit for abolishing the crinoline. Wonder who we can blame for silly male fashions like: the peascod belly, waist cinches, sock suspenders, cowboy boots (ouch!) and neckties? > Good discussion, Yeah, Babs, it's been fascinating! This group continues to be so. Thanks for realizing that my comments were intended as rational rather than flaming. It's hard to make that clear in print. --cin cynthia@caere.com ----------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 16:31:20 PST From: "cynthia" Subject: Shoemaking: fitting & a bibliography >I've often toyed with the idea of making my own shoes at >home, but I don't know much about it. >--babs Oh, yippee! a pet subject! Babs, (excerpts from an old posting to cw-reenactors) Go ahead & try it! They're fun and aggravating! Before this playtest I had only made foxed "cloth dancing slippers" and gaiters. Should take you 3 days: 1 to choose & construct the pattern, 1 to sew, laugh at, cuss and mark your mockup, 1 for the real thing. The construction I learned from reading _Every Lady her own Shoemaker_ and from Carolyn Barrows, a many times over Int'l Costumer's Guild Master. >From the rawest novice at the cobbler's trade, here's a brief once over on the process: Well, Carolyn did part one of the playtest of her Shoe Workshop with a friend & I as guinea pigs. Ugh, I've made 4 corsets, done a fair amount of millinery (the the make your own buckram & wire frame sort), but fitting the shoe pattern was hard! Feet are small and there's no fat or hair to squish. Feet want to move! In the past Carolyn has taught the class with a last (cast in plaster) from the target foot. This time we built a paper cone (or other solid) over the toes to form the target shape. Your toe-cap may be anything from a box to elf boots. We chose 1830 dancing slippers figuring no-heels was easiest for a first try. When making heeled shoes buy the heels elsewhere (San Jose Leather locally) or tear them out of a Goodwill shoe. Drape while standing on the "heel" and on any orthotics you may have. Use paper or fabric to drape your pattern according to your picture. If you choose fabric, do a muslin with 2 layers of fabric on the crossgrain. Feet are obnoxiously shaped with concavities here and convexities there. When the paper tears or the fabric stretches/ wrinkles that's your hint to put a seam in. Make LOTS of muslins. Try them on while wearing the Toe-cap. When you attach the upper muslin to the sole muslin, the seam may either be outside & tucked under or on the inside & padded with felt to level the lumps. That's the end of "part 1". I have a pattern and an "upper" cut out of my fashion fabric. Believe it or not, the resulting pattern looked very much like the dance slipper pattern in _Every Lady Her Own Shoemaker_. Other tips: Dont do this yourself, have a partner in crime, drape each others' feet. You must drape with weight on the foot. Spend ALOT of time draping. The final pattern you can use forever if it's done well. Precision drafting & sewing pay off. (Nothing new here!) Both heavy and light fabrics are bothersome. Pick something the weight & tight weave of men's wool suiting for a first effort. Assembly & finish work per the Loomis or Clark books. --cin Bibliography for making your own shoes: (books Carolyn brought over to intimidate or inspire us) Instructional: _Custom Make Your Own Shoes & Handbags_, Mary Wales Loomis (earlier editions are Mary Wales), Crown Publishers, NY, 1978, ISBN 0.517.53138.9 _The Make It Yourself Shoe Book_, Christine Clark, Alfred Knopf, NY, 1977, ISBN 0.394.41057.2 _Every Lady Her Own Shoemaker_, by A Lady, 1855, reprinted by Amazon Vinegar. Inspirational: _Shoes: Fashion & Fantasy_, Colin McDowell, Rizzoli, NY, 1989. Voted best of the lot! _(The Costume Accessories Series) Shoes_, June Swann, gen. ed. Aileen Ribeiro, Butler & Tanner Ltd, Fromm, Somerset, 1982, ISBN 0.7134.0942.8 _Schuhe, Drei Jahrtausende in Bildern_, Paul Weber, AT Verlag, Aarau, Stuttgart. Color plates every other page. _Heavenly Soles, Extrodinary 20th Century Shoes_, Mary Trako, Abbeville Press, NY. _Un Passo Dopo L'Altro, shoes from Italy_, SF exhibition catalog, B/W photos, examples from 17th thru the 20th century. annual calendars from the Bata Shoe Museum Collection, Firefly Books, 250 Sparks Av, Willowdale Ontario M2H 2S4. Just Plain Silly: _Cinderella's Revenge_, Samuel Mazza, Chronicle Books, SF, 1994, ISBN 0.8118.0681.2, by the author of _Brahaus_ ----------------------- End of Volume 238 -----------------------