From: Gretchen Miller Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 17:54:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 241, 2/28/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 241, February 28, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Menstruation Tin Man costume March/April vintage dance classes, San Francisco ISO: History of supportive bodice in Ireland Dye suppliers Fulling Me too! History of neckties History of body shaping underwear Politically correct underwear ----------------------- From: BEARLEE1@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 19:08:39 -0500 Subject: "Well-Worn" Menstration Topic! Sorry to be dragging out a topic... the only bad part of receiving the digest... is that you are a day or two behind.... But as I was reading the several posts...I remembered my Mom telling me a story... so I called her and asked if I had it straight.... (and by the way I'm old enough to remember garter belts, too.... though would rather forget them) Anyhow, Mom was born in 1911 and went to Northfield when it was an all girls school in Massachusetts.... She was 14 and had to take old cloth and wash it out... There were two girls there, minister's daughters, who had "home-made" disposables... so when the girls went home for Christmas recess some of them came back with their own version. By the following fall... all the girls had disposable... either homemade or commercial and by the third year she can't remember anyone having anything other than commerical.... Though she did not come from a particularly well to do family... they were a "prominent country" family and her dad strong on a "daughter having the same educational advantages as a son" so there for the train ride to a priviate high school... Anyhow.... though "sanitary napkins" were propably out there.... it is far to assume that they came into common use... some where in the mid 1920's.... And because... the older folks I know, including my Mom, still refer to napkins as "Kotex" it would be fair to assume that if that company was the first to offer them... is certainly was the most widely used.... kind of like, facial tissues are still "Kleenex" and window cleaner is still "BonAmi" etc..... boy is my age showing...... Don't know if this helps to pin point where to look for materials or not.... best I can do... Carole (Bearlee1@aol.com) ----------------------- From: OWirght@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 20:29:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Tin Man Experience? I have used dryer vent tubing for elbows and knees on such a costume, but pun cture any plastic parts so as to let the costume breathe. It gets awfully hot inside a plastic armor covering that much of the body. I found l00% cotton turtle neck t shirts and cotton sox helped siphon away the perspiration. The tin man at Greenfield Village Theatre had a diarrhetic accident inside of his costume one year, and it was hell to clean. Be sure you are aware of such horrendous possibilities! Anne Saunders ----------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 18:54:22 PST From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: San Francisco Bay Area Vintage Dance Classes VINTAGE DANCE CLASSES The East Bay Vintage Dance Society schedule for March and April is: March 4, dance master Stan Isaacs; ragtime dance March 11, dance masters Allan Terry and Frances Grimble; ragtime tango March 18, Isaacs; ragtime dance March 25, Terry & Grimble; maxixe April 1, NO CLASS; ENTIRE BUILDING RENTED FOR ANOTHER EVENT April 8, Terry & Grimble; 1920s blues variations from original sources April 15, Isaacs; 1920s dance April 22, Terry & Grimble; Charleston April 29, Isaacs; 1920s dance MAY 13: SPECIAL WORKSHOP ON BALLROOM MINUET OF THE BAROQUE & REGENCY PERIODS All classes will be held on Saturday mornings, 10:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. at St. Johns Presbyterian Church 2727 College Avenue, Room 203 Berkeley, California The price is $6/person. No partner required. This is a regular series of weekly classes that will continue in upcoming months. For further information, call Clare Peterson at (510) 223-8233. ----------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 21:49:04 -0800 (PST) From: samhainsghost Subject: Re: Supportive Bodices Actually I'm trying to find out how far back people wore that sort of garment? I was looking at Ireland as far as geographical location. Um and if you happen to know..what did people wear befor that? ----------------------------------------------------------- If Voltaire could look down on the world today, I believe he would say, " Don't you people have lives!?" Samhain@mail.pacificrim.net ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 08:08:39 -0400 (EST) From: dbrowne Subject: Re: Dye There was such a number of you that mailed me personally and asked for the numbers I decided to put them out for general knowledge. Rupert, Gibbion and Spider (800) 442-0455 this is on the west coast. Dhrama Trading Company (800) 542-5227, I think that this is Mid-west. I hope this helps anyone looking for dye stuffs. Please remember to be cautious when using any dye, it all can be hazardious, but with proper equipment: Gloves, Face mask, good ventalition and common sence there is no reason for anyone to have any trouble. --Kathy B. --Katrinn ----------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 08:23:13 CDT From: donna parker Subject: fulling Fulling is one of the finishing steps in manufacturing wool fabric. It cleanses, shrinks, tightens the weave, and felts the fabric. Goods straight off the loom need this process to make the material compact as you described. I would guess a couple of things would determine the quality of the goods; the skill of the weaver, whether or not it was on mechanized looms; and if the thread was hand spun or spun in a mill. Donna ----------------------- From: j.w.hubbard@sheffield.ac.uk (Bill Hubbard) Subject: Finishing Saxon seams Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 15:41:01 +0000 >From: LDulin@aol.com >Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:12:45 -0500 >To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu >Subject: Pritchard paper >Jennifer said: This method of finishing seams is documented >from Saxon London, There's a paper by Francis Pritchard that describes >various methods of sewing seams including this one. >P.S. I can look up the name of the Pritchard paper if anyone wants it. >Yes! I want it! >-Leslie I missed the posting that prompted this and can't find it in the digests and so can't write to "Jennifer" direct. I would be interested too if Jennifer is emailing the details privately. Thanks a lot, Bill Bill Hubbard Multimedia Development Adviser Teaching & Learning Development Group Sheffield University. 65 Wilkinson Street, Sheffield S10 2GJ Email j.w.hubbard@sheffield.ac.uk Telephone 0114 2826021 Fax 0114 2752420 ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 11:21:47 EST Subject: Re[2]: neckties- their origin? their destination? On Wed, 22 Feb 1995 alana_guy@broder.com wrote: > > I heard from my high school drama teacher that neckties resulted from a dinner > party at which the king showed up with his horrible oozing neck goiter covered > with an ascot. I half-believe this, and I've heard no other explanation. I > would love historical background for it. _____________________________________________________ Men started wearing neckcloths in the 17th century (after all those lovely lace collars we adore). Why I'm not sure. The "Steinkirk" (named after the Battle of) was a long neckcloth that was tucked into a buttonhole the coat or waistcoat. From there it evolved (and shortened) into the neckcloths we know from 18th century portraits (some fops had a neckcloth and then a little bow tied over ir like a bowtie), and then into the 19th century cravat, then into the 20th century necktie. One of the more useless fashions around. As for hose, sorry Derek, everyone, both male and female, wore hose. You just saw only the men's because their clothes were shorter. To me,. pantyhose were the great invention of the 20th century. Hope some one else can shed some light on WHY neckcloths were invented. Regards, Kathleen KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 11:39:21 EST Subject: Re[2]: Some Misc Thoughts I'm not qualified to give you a detailed history of the bra (I'd have to go home and look it up) but try Nor Waugh's "Corsets and Crinolines" and the Cunnington's "History of Underclothes". They should give you the information you need. Something resembling a bra showd up in the late 18th century -- I saw an example of one in an exhibition catalog (can't remember which one, but I could look it up), but as far as I know, it's a 20th century invention. I guess when women stopped wearing corsets, they needed support from somewhere. If you need more info, give me a few days to get it to you. Kathleen KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM ___________________________________________________________ So, what can people tell me in more detail about the design and history of the bra? My pet peave has been not being able to find any off the rack, so I'd welcome a discussion on what exists about this. It's interesting to note the resurgence of the corset- form undergarment, amusingly enough, though as a fashion statement. I'm not quite sure what that means. -babs ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 11:56:07 EST Subject: Re: Politically correct underwear As far as I remember, pantyhose became normal wear in the early to mid 60's. I remember that I thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread (I still do) because I HATE garter belts, and being tall, could never get stockings LONG enough so that there wasn't a big gap when I sat down. I know men like garter belts and like that gap above the skirt where you can see the top of the stocking, but it made me feel uncomfortable, it was cold in winter, and those damn garters always left a lump under your tight skirt. Yuk. Kathleen KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Once the >bra became a seperate item, it too became an object of attack on >gender-political grounds when in the 1960s it became a symbol to >burn them (I suspect few were actually burned, unlike draft cards, >but it did become iconic to discuss them in terms of them being >burned as a protest act). Somewhat off on a tangent, I know, but I always felt that the feminists of the 60s got it wrong by burning bras - I feel that my bras are something that make my life more, rather than less comfortabe, being at least averagely busted. What they should have been burning (or re-cycling, to be environmentally conscious) is their nylon pantihose. The expectation that these are part of appropriate office dress, if you wear skirts, is a significant oppression, in my view. They are neither practical, economic comfortable, nor healthy. When did these things (as oppose to stockings, which are marginally better) become 'normal' wear? Let's hear it for cotton passion-killers! Sarah ************************************************************************** Sarah Randles S.Randles@uts.edu.au Research Office Telephone: (02)330 1252 University of Technology, Sydney Fax: (02)330 1252 ----------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 12:13:21 -0500 From: walter@tandem.physics.upenn.edu (KAREN WALTER) Subject: new Folkwear pattern Hello, everybody. Someone was asking about new Folkwear patterns. Coincidentally, a new catalog has just arrived at my house. They list two new "historic" patterns and two new Met museum patterns -- no new ethnic ones. The historic patterns are a Twenties Day Dress - kimono sleeves, cartridge- pleated skirt -- looks quite simple, actually - and a Town and Country Dress, which they say is "based" on a Claire McCardell design. The Town and Country Dress is a sleeveless, halter-necked design, with a simple gathered skirt. There is a clever little wing-tipped collar and bowtie detail for the neck. It looks quite modern, a lot like the stuff Ralph Lauren was doing a few years back. I can't help wonder if the tight collar would make the dress uncomfortable in the hot weather, however. It might do better as an evening dress, with a little jacket. The Met patterns are the Gallenga Gown, an extremely simple design in which all the shaping is cleverly done with button, looks to be from the 1920's, although they don't say. It's very attractive, but I fear it would be a monstrosity on my short round self. The other patter is a 1915 Travelling Suit, a jumper and a very attractive tailored jacket with a long peplum. It looks as if tailoring skills are definitely in order to make this one, but it is the one I like the best. All are hideously expensive -- 26.00 (US) for the Met patterns and 18.95 for the other two. Karen Walter (walter@tandem.physics.upenn.edu) ----------------------- Date: Fri 24 Feb 1995 11:59 CT From: UDSD007@DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US (Mike.Andrews ) Subject: Re: neckties- their origin? their destination? Kathleen wrote: > Men started wearing neckcloths in the 17th century (after all those lovely l > collars we adore). Why I'm not sure. The "Steinkirk" (named after the Battle > of) was a long neckcloth that was tucked into a buttonhole the coat or > waistcoat. From there it evolved (and shortened) into the neckcloths we know > from 18th century portraits (some fops had a neckcloth and then a little bow > tied over ir like a bowtie), and then into the 19th century cravat, then int > the 20th century necktie. One of the more useless fashions around. I heard once, on a Paul Harvey "Rest of the Story" radio program, that the modern cravat derived from a Croatian (hence "cravat", a mispronunciation of "Hrvat", Croatian for "Croatian") neck- cloth. Harvey claimed that this neckcloth was worn in battle to confer immunity to wounds, rather like the "ghost shirts" worn by the Native American "Ghost Dance" followers of the 1800's. It appears to have worked about as well as a Ghost Shirt, too. I don't place much faith in the tale, but it and the evolution of the Steinkirk are the only two stories I've heard about the origin of the long mens' tie. About the history of the bow-tie I know nothing. FWIW, I like necktie fabric, and think that a pretty tie is an attractive complement to the remainder of the outfit of a well-dressed man. I wear four-in-hands and bow-ties, and yes, I _do_ tie my own bow-ties. No clip-ons for me! -- Mike Andrews Mgr., Tech. Support, Okla. Dept. of Transportation udsd007@ibm.okladot.state.ok.us ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 14:24:07 EST Subject: Re[2]: Supportive Bodices As for supportive bodices in Ireland, there are illustrations from the late 16th century showing two well-dressed gentlewomen who look like their bodices are stiffened somehow -- I won't speculate whether by boning or heavy fabric stiffening -- but they are not bulging or slopping over any parts of the top of the dress. If I were doing the bodice (and I did), I would use some metal boning, but would not bone it heavily. I can find the reference tomorrow since I have the book at home. Kathleen (KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM) ___________________________________________________________________________ It's just as easy to do it right as it is to do it wrong. ___________________________________________________________________________ Actually I'm trying to find out how far back people wore that sort of garment? I was looking at Ireland as far as geographical location. Um and if you happen to know..what did people wear befor that? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If Voltaire could look down on the world today, I believe he would say, " Don't you people have lives!?" Samhain@mail.pacificrim.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- End of Volume 241 -----------------------