From: Gretchen Miller Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 19:14:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 242, 3/1/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 242, March 1, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Info on copyrights on 90 year old patterns 20th C shoe styles Words for "Shoemaker" Bra history Necktie history Folkwear pattern review Unsubscribe reminder and directions Fulling wool Dye suppliers Politically correct underwear ----------------------- From: Lonnie D Harvel Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:18:34 -0500 Subject: antique patterns The subject is correct. A VERY kind friend of ours happened upon a box of antique patterns from the turn of the century (circa 1907). The patterns are McCall and are in really good shape. Being a good friend, sensitive to the tastes of his costuming friends, he purchased these for us (at no small cost)! There are a little over a hundred of them in various styles. Mostly day dresses and walking gowns. There are also some children patterns and several blouses. To date we are unsure of the copyright status of these patterns. There is no copyright imprinted on them, and I have recieved no answer from McCalls. Does anyone out there have any idea about copyright on 90 year old McCall patterns? ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 14:36:20 EST Subject: Re[2]: shoes' pointy toes I have several pairs of shoes from the late 60's and early 70's that have either round or square toes and 1/12 to 2" chunky set-back heels, rather than the high or stiletto heel. Talk about comfortable! I still wear them with certain period costumes for which they would be appropriate. Hope this helps. Kathleen (in the SCA Mistress Alyson of Islay) kathleen@anstec.com I still own a pair of high heels with round toes from the 70's. They were also required by some of the airlines, because despite their high heel (about 2 1/2 inches) the heel was not stiletto but about 1" across. They also had a modest platform (about 3/8"). I also have another pair from the same time period which have a higher heel, slightly higher platform (about 1/2") with heels which stamp out hearts. Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 14:31:38 EST Subject: Re: Sinister, Shoes, & Shoemaking Possibly "shoemaker" was difficult to find listed as an occupation in the past because shoemakers (i.e., those who made the entire shoe) were known as "cordwainers". This comes from Al Saguto, the cordwainer at Williamsburg, an excellent and talented gentleman. (oh, and never call a shoemaker a "Cobbler". Those are people who repair shoes). ----------------------- From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: More on copyright... Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 11:49:09 -0800 (PST) BTW, works published before January 1, 1978 fall under a different set of regulations and, in general, they are protected for only 28 years. They may be renewed for an additional 47 years, but they must be _formally_ renewed in order to receive that protection. You can get many copyright questions answered for free (besides the cost of the call, itself) by phoning the Office of Copyright itself. We are, of course, talking about U.S. copyright here, as the original query was about a U.S. based pattern company. International law can be different. Anyway, the number I have for the Copyright Office is (202) 479-0700. They publish dozens of documents on copyright law and most are free for the asking. Unusual or complex copyright questions are always best left to a copyright or literary attorney, but your question might not be all that complex and you'll never know unless you ask! -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) ----------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:39:40 +0000 From: Zachary Kessin Subject: Re: Re[2]: Some Misc Thoughts On Fri, 24 Feb 1995 KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM wrote: > I'm not qualified to give you a detailed history of the bra (I'd have to go > home and look it up) but try Nor Waugh's "Corsets and Crinolines" and the > Cunnington's "History of Underclothes". They should give you the information > you need. Something resembling a bra showd up in the late 18th century -- I saw > an example of one in an exhibition catalog (can't remember which one, but I > could look it up), but as far as I know, it's a 20th century invention. I guess > when women stopped wearing corsets, they needed support from somewhere. If you > need more info, give me a few days to get it to you. > Kathleen > KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM As for when the bra was invented. Live had an issue a few (5-7 I think) years back for the 100th year of the bra. I mostly remember the Bloom County spoof on the whole thing. Zach ----------------------- From: ejp@watson.ibm.com Subject: Re: Sinister, Shoes, & Shoemaking Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 15:08:56 -0500 KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM writes: > shoemakers (i.e., those who made the entire shoe) were known as > "cordwainers". This comes from Al Saguto, the cordwainer at Williamsburg, Could either you or Al tell us more about this use of "wain"? I'm more familiar with the "wagon" meaning, as in "wainwright". What the heck, go for broke, let us know how "cord" fits in, too. :) thanks, ejp -------- Elizabeth Poole Yorktown Heights, NY ejp@watson.ibm.com ----------------------- From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: antique patterns; copyright issues. Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 11:38:20 -0800 (PST) > Does anyone out there have any idea about copyright on 90 year old McCall > patterns? Here's the low-down on books: copyright protection lasts for the duration of the owner's life plus 50 years following his death. On collaborative works, the lift of the last surviving owner determines the term of copyright (ie. protections lasts 50 years following his death). On anonymous works, pseudonymous works and works for hire, the copyright expires either seventy-five years after the work's first publication or one hundred years after its creation, whichever is reached first. I suspect that patterns are a "work for hire" type and therefore the copyright has expired (since the 75 year mark has been reached first). I, of course, am not a copyright lawyer, but that's the explanation given in my _Writing A-Z_ book. -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) ----------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 15:55:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Jim O'Connor" Subject: Cordwainers On Fri, 24 Feb 1995 KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM wrote: > Possibly "shoemaker" was difficult to find listed as an occupation in the past > because shoemakers (i.e., those who made the entire shoe) were known as > "cordwainers". This comes from Al Saguto, the cordwainer at Williamsburg, an > excellent and talented gentleman. (oh, and never call a shoemaker a "Cobbler". > Those are people who repair shoes). > Interesting word that, if a shipwright builds ships, and a housewright builds houses, then a wainwright builds wagons, so what does a cordwainer do? The cord is apparently a contraction of cordovan so it would seem he makes wagons of cordovan. Which is a good description of a leather shoe. Apparently the cordwainer was a skilled artisan in leather goods of all sorts not just shoes. A fine example is the olde leather fire buckets. Those artisans who made up the whole shoe worked for people who couldn't fit the ready made shoes and for those who wanted something extra fancy. But even the fancy trade could barely compete with the ready made. It was one of the earliest industries because of the economics. Henry Ford gets a lot of credit for the assembly line and how it reduces cost but if he knew anything about the shoe industry he already understood the principle. And he was a farm boy. The early shoe industry relied upon the farmer stuck at home during the long winter needing a source of cash by doing something that was low skilled work. One contractor for the Union Army during the Civil War was called on the carpet because the shipment of boots he supplied had fallen apart within a week of usage. His response was to blame government incompetentance: "You sent those boots to the Infantry, they were made for the Cavalry!!" ----------------------------- From: "Heather L. Garvey" Subject: Re: Sinister, Shoes, & Shoemaking To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 15:29:31 -0600 (CST) * KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM writes: * > shoemakers (i.e., those who made the entire shoe) were known as * > "cordwainers". This comes from Al Saguto, the cordwainer at Williamsburg, * * Could either you or Al tell us more about this use of "wain"? I'm * more familiar with the "wagon" meaning, as in "wainwright". What the * heck, go for broke, let us know how "cord" fits in, too. :) Pulling out Mr. Electronic Dict.... cord-wain \'ko[0xC7](e)r-,dwa^-n\ n [ME cordwane, fr. MF cordoan, fr. OSp cordovano, cordova'n] archaic (14c) : cordovan leather cord-wain-er \-,dwa^--ner\ n (14c) 1 archaic: a worker in cordovan leather 2: SHOEMAKER ---------------------------------------------------------- Heather Garvey Phone: (708) 632-3790 Motorola Cellular, ITS, Rm 2231 E-mail: garvey@cig.mot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 16:40:23 EST Subject: Re[2]: Sinister, Shoes, & Shoemaking It's Kathleen again. The "Random House Dictionary of the English Language", 2nd Edidtion (I have access to an Oxford English Dictionary if necessary) defines "cordwainer" as "Archaic 1. a person who makes shoes from cordovan leather. 2. shoemaker; cobbler [!] 1150 - 1200 ME cordewaner. "Cordwain" is another archaic term meaning cordovan leather. cordwain, cordovan, sounds good to me. So the spelling is different from the "wain" meaning wagon. OK? Kathleen (kathleen@anstec.com) KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM writes: > shoemakers (i.e., those who made the entire shoe) were known as > "cordwainers". This comes from Al Saguto, the cordwainer at Williamsburg, Could either you or Al tell us more about this use of "wain"? I'm more familiar with the "wagon" meaning, as in "wainwright". What the heck, go for broke, let us know how "cord" fits in, too. :) thanks, ejp -------- Elizabeth Poole Yorktown Heights, NY ejp@watson.ibm.com ----------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 16:44:31 -0500 From: Joe Marfice Subject: Re: Origin of Bra >On Fri, 24 Feb 1995 KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM wrote: >> I'm not qualified to give you a detailed history of the bra (I'd have to go >> home and look it up) but try Nor Waugh's "Corsets and Crinolines" and the >>Cunnington's "History of Underclothes". They should give you the information >> you need. Something resembling a bra showd up in the late 18th century -- I >... zkessin@tiac.net (Zachary Kessin): >As for when the bra was invented. Live had an issue a few (5-7 I think) years >back for the 100th year of the bra. I mostly remember the Bloom County spoof I have heard repeatedly that the bra was invented by Howard Hughes to showcase Jane Russell's "box-office draw" in one of his movies. He didn't like the look with other foundation garments in the thin shirt she was wearing, and wanted a distinctly "defying gravity"-profile. | Broom, at The Lady Perrine | aka Joe Marfice | Ministerium honor est. \|/ which means "My momma wears Army boots--wanna make somethin' of it?" /|\ 513-222-2330 233 Perrine Street //|\\ af289@dayton.wright.edu Dayton (my fayre citee), OH 45410 ----------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:08:10 -0800 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Neckties I just read Diana de Marly's book on "fashions for Men" (or something like that in the title) & she commented that the Prince Regent (for Mad George 3) had developed a goiter & raised the fashionable cravat almost to his ears to hide it & the "Court" followed suit. THat may be the origin of the "goiter" story someone mentioned. Alison ----------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:13:34 -0800 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Folkwear reviews Thank you forthe Folkwear reviews. At the prices Taunton Press charges, its nice to get a few informed opinions before popping the bucks. I have to mail order them, because I live in a smallish town, so there's no chance to examine them first. I really hope Folkwear does more of the WW1 era clothing, since the lines from that era are flattering on awide range of body types, where a lot of the 1920's & 1930's patttterns are more suitable for those with straight or slender body types. I also love the WW1 clothing because its very adaptable for modern wear, unlike some other historical periods. THe Gallenga Gown with the buttons sounded interesting, so I'll probably get that one to try, along with the travelling suit. THanks again for the reviews. Alison ----------------------------- From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: UNSUBSCRIBE -- REMINDER Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 17:11:32 -0800 (PST) > Unsubcribe please. Thank you. Geesh, looks like it's time to drag out those subscribe/unsubscribe directions again and post another reminder. I'm getting A LOT of complaints about the number of these types of messages -- people it's VERY bad manners to post them to the list! ALL unsubscribe (and subscribe) requests need to go directly to Gretchen at: h-costume-REQUEST@andrew.cmu.edu and NOT to the list address. Thanks for your attention to this matter. AOL members please take special note of it as we've been having an unusually high number of mis-sent requests from aol.com addresses. Again, please use the -request address for all administrative requests. The list address is for posts of interest to *everyone* only. Thanks! -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) ----------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 17:50:28 -0800 (PST) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Sinister, Shoes, & Shoemaking On Fri, 24 Feb 1995 ejp@watson.ibm.com wrote: > KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM writes: > > shoemakers (i.e., those who made the entire shoe) were known as > > "cordwainers". This comes from Al Saguto, the cordwainer at Williamsburg, > > Could either you or Al tell us more about this use of "wain"? I'm > more familiar with the "wagon" meaning, as in "wainwright". What the > heck, go for broke, let us know how "cord" fits in, too. :) Cordwainer < cordwain < Cordovan [leather] < Cordoba (the city in Spain) The city of Cordoba was evidently well-known for a type of (if I recall correctly) goatskin leather well suited to the making of shoes. The name was transferred to the leather and thence to those who worked with it, i.e., shoe-makers. Heather Rose Jones ----------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 22:56:57 CST From: "Brunette" Subject: wool treatment Regarding the comments on felting/fulling of wool-- I have had good luck treating my wool by washing 2 or more times in hot water with whatever detergent I have handy, rinsing in cold, then drying on the hot cycle. I heard somewhere that the drastic temperature changes have as much to do with the results as the agitation and heat. I wouldn't recommend this for your fine cashmere, of course. What I end up with is a warm fuzzy waterproof wool that keeps its texture & warmth in any weather. I recommend machine washing on cold of the finished garments, then hanging to dry or partially drying in the dryer on a gentle setting. This has worked really well for me for heavily used MN Renaissance Festival clothing at a game I manage the costumes for. I also just love the fuzzy wool-- feels so much better when its been thru the fulling process... ---CarolJane ----------------------------- From: OWirght@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 01:59:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Dye There was a company in Oregon, I believe, named Cerulean Blue that had an extensive catalogue of products for dyers (?). I have found that when in doubt about how to contact prospective vendors, it is usually profitable to call 1-800-555-1212 and ask for the compa ny. They usually have a listing. This brings to mind a wonderful product that I have used for several years, and I found their 800 number that way, as our theatre had such a small budget that they scowled at too many long distance calls. The product is Fresh Again Spray. It dissappears perspiration from your garments so that it will wash or dryclean away. No more rancid steam clouds from old costumes! The company is Uncommon Conglomerates, and they are in Minneapolis/St. Paul, M inn. I used to buy it by the case as it wasn't on the market yet. Now I see that Greenberg and Hammer catalogue lists it for the same price that I have paid since l984. The best to y'all (I just moved to Louisiana from Michigan) Anne Saunders ----------------------------- From: Chethur@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 02:31:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Politically correct underwear I graduated from high school in 1965 in San Diego. We did not have panty hose at the time. They came in sometime while I was in college, although I do not remember the exact year I believe it was about 1967. I know people from other parts of the county who did not encounter them until the late 1960s. The combination of garterbelts and menstrual napkin belts was extremely uncomfortable. Why were either even called "belts" or was it the resemblance to chastity belts? Cheryl ----------------------- End of Volume 242 -----------------------