From: Gretchen Miller Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 16:49:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 244, 3/2/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 244, March 2, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: History of hose--particularly pantyhose In Memoriam: Pat Kennedy Who exactly IS Antonia Fraser, and how good is her research? Storing clothes in Victorian times History of neckties Finishing Saxon seams, the citations! Fulling ISO: Advice on NYC Fabric district Review of Colonial Williamsburg costuming classes ----------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 17:34:27 -0500 (EST) From: Victoria Gilliam Subject: Re: Politically correct underwear On Sun, 26 Feb 1995, Kerstin Nelson wrote in reply to Cynthia Rosser: > About pantyhose -- I can remember buying my first pair in 1962 (junior > year in college) and thinking that they were a miracle -- no more garter > belts. I confess that I still feel that way 8). Today I opt for long > skirts and wear knee-hi's and am much happier. Everyone's talking about how great pantyhose are...and I've gone to garter belts ;} (I'm almost 25, 5'2", &, ummm, zaftig.) I've found that garter belts are much easier than making sure that the pantyhose you bought stay at your waist, instead of creeping down. (Although I agree with the long skirts & knee-hi's...;} Vycke' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errs. Brain fried -- core dumped. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vycke' Gilliam z009341b@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us ----------------------- Date: 27 Feb 95 00:44:51 EST From: Gary Anderson <72437.674@compuserve.com> Subject: In Memoriam To all Costumers It is with great regret that we let you know of the death of Pat Kennedy. Pat passed away Sunday a little after noon of end-stage interstitial lung disease resulting from rheumatoid arthritis. Pat was among the first members of the International Costumer's Guild, and its New York/New Jersey chapter. He served several terms in various offices of both. He was also co-author with his wife Peggy of "The Kennedy Compendium" the first handbook on the running of science fiction masquerades, and they were the co-chairs of Costume Con 7. He was well-known as one of the best emcees for costume competitions, and himself appeared on stage in both serious and humorous entries. But beyond these dry facts, those of us who were fortunate to know him treasure the memory of his delicious dry wit, his twinkling appreciative eye and his calming presence, particularly in the stress of major competitions. He is the first member of the founding circle of the ICG we have lost, and we will miss him greatly. Peggy has asked us to post information about his memorial service. She would like as many of his friends as can attend to join her at 1 p.m. Saturday March 11th at Youngs' Funeral home, 11831 SW Pacific Hwy, Tigard Oregon. She asks his friends to come with "Pat stories" to share. Afterwards everyone will go back to the house for more "Pat stories" and appropriate refreshments. Peggy says she has sleeping accomodations for out-of-towners, and would appreciate a call if you are planning on coming at (503) 635-0916. If you can't make it, please write a memory of Pat to be read and send it to Peggy at 62 Touchstone, Lake Oswego, OR 97035. (She cannot be reached via e-mail, so phone or snail mail is necessary). In lieu of flowers, please send contributions to the Rheumatoid Arthritis Foundation in Pat's name. Janet and Gary Anderson, for Peggy Kennedy ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 01:50:33 -0500 (EST) From: "K.C. Kozminski" Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 236, 2/24/95 > > Antonia Fraser is not a credible academic writer. > > Her fiction (published under the name Jean Plaidy) is very well-researched > > She is, however, married to Harold Pinter. > > Aryk Nusbacher > ~ She's also Victoria Holt! KC ----------------------- From: EVANKLEY@legacy.Calvin.EDU To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 10:07:53 EDT Subject: finishing saxon seams I also do not have Jennifer's address so must bother this list to ask Jennifer for the info re the Pritchard Paper and finishing saxon seams. Many thanks. Elaine ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 10:35:49 EST Subject: Re[2]: Fraizer Both names are pseudonyms of Eleanor Hibbert. I used to be a librarian and I looked it up. Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com __________________________________________________________ Please get your authors straight, even historical fiction. Jean Plaidy is the pseudonym of Victoria Holt! --Kathy B. --Katrinn ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 10:45:03 EST Subject: Victorian closets Nancy Fernandez asks about Victorian closets To my knowledge, they used "clothes presses" or armoires and chests of drawers. I lived in a big Victorian house outside of Philadelphia where it was obvious that the closets were an afterthought, built separately from the original construction. I don't know about hanging clothes on pegs in a closet, but I have seen many examples of ornate Victorian hall racks that held pegs for coats or cloaks and had a chest built into the bottom for boots and galoshes. Kathleen Norvell kathleen@anstec.com ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 08:36:27 -0800 From: Alexandra.Ohlson@Eng.Sun.COM (Alexandra Rankin Ohlson) Subject: Re: Victorian closets It was my understanding, from a description of life in Newport Rhode Island (admittedly, not particularly "real" life) at the turn of the century, that most of the clothes were stored "upstairs" (I assume in rooms at the servants level) and a weeks worth were prepared and brought down to wardrobes at the wearers level at the beginning of the week. (and this morning as I bleary-eyed, ironed my dress, I thought again how useful servants would have been - except that in all likelihood, I would have been one... :) alexandra ----------------------- From: Mrs C S Yeldham Date: 27 Feb 95 16:46:00 GMT Subject: Antiona Frasier Awkwardness again I hold no brief for Antonia Frasier, but I think I should defend her! I don't think she is Victoria Holt or Jean Plaidy, which are pen names for the same writer (who must be very active without writing Antonia Frasier's stuff as well!) I recently read an article about Antiona Frasier's writing career which made no mention of it. She has written detective stories about Jemima Shaw(?), under her own name. Apart from being married to Harold Pinter, she also comes from a very respectable academic/radical family, the Longfords. Her father, Lord Longford, is an intellectual radical who is always getting himself into trouble defending unpopular causes - if the tabloids dislike him so much he can't be all bad. Her mother is a very well respected historian, Cecil Woodham-smith (sp?), who's book about the Irish famine had a profound impact on me (sorry, can't remember the name, just the descriptions). As for being criticised by a catholic historian about her book on Mary Queen of Scots, well, I shall probably make myself unpopular, but here goes. There's an old saying, read the historian, not the history. I'm afraid the Catholic church still has a vested interest in portraying Mary Stuart as a catholic martyr, unjustly executed by Elizabeth. This means they need to show her as innocent - including innocent of being involved in the Babington plot. Most English historians, including Antonia Frasier, say she was involved, in that as well as the other plots in the 1570s and 80s and knew of the plot to murder Elizabeth. If she did know of that plot then there was justification for her execution, and the church was on dodgy ground excommunicating Elizabeth. Sorry, but I'm not romantic about Mary Stuart, I suspect she must have been a blasted nuisance to have around. She started her reign of Scotland with far more advantages than Elizabeth did England, and just made a total mess of the whole thing. After all, look at her grandson! As for choosing your material to back your theory, or twisting it to ready the way you want to - I thought that was the essence of historical practice! If every historian who did that was drummed out, there would be precious few historians left, and some very long books! Someone asked about Ties recently. I had a look over the weekend at 'The Tie, Trends and Tradition' by Sara Gibbings, published by Studio Editions of London in 1990, ISBN 1 8517078. Apart from neckcloths worn by soldiers etc (eg the Terracotta army), she derives it from the ruffs and falling bands of late 16th century England, through stocks etc of 18th and 19th century England, some of which were coloured as well as the majority white (and all tending to be very long). An interesting point she made was the tie of the landowners of Southern USA slave-holding states, a small, almost modern tie,which has not changed much since, worn very clearly as a formal indication of leisured status, but with the equal impetus towards light, informal wear because of the heat. She seemed to me to be saying that once the idea of something wrapped around the throat took hold, which seemed to happen as men's clothing became duller*, then the idea was more important that the structure of the item involved. *I'm sticking my neck out again here, and of course there was plenty of exciting stuff in and after the late 16th century stuff, but the plain (black or dark) outfit is more common after the late 16th century than before for all bar the high gentry. Caroline ----------------------- From: jennyb@pdd.3com.com Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 17:21:08 GMT Subject: Re: finishing saxon seams O.K. apologies to all for the amount of time I've taken to reply, chaos at work & selling my house combined ended up in me losing track of my library, but enough excuses here's the info:- I have 3 sources for information on sewing stitches in early medieval europe. "Late Saxon Textiles from the City of London" Frances Pritchard, Medieval Archaeology, Volume 28, 1984 pp 46-76 + plates I to V The precis says "Archaeological Excavation sin the city of London have produced an important collection of late 9th to early 12th century textiles manufactured from wool goat hair silk and flax. The production processes associated with the different types of cloth are here described, together with details of weaving techniques and dying practices. Changes in teh type of cloth used in the 11th century are related to the introduction of new technology and the decline in use of the warp-weighted loom. evidence is examined for the local manufacture of cloth and for the import of foreign silks. Lastly, attention is drawn to the similarity of the london textiles to those found in other regions of Northern Europe." On page 58-59 diagrams & text describe sewing "Two pieces have hemmed edges, On one an edge has been cut, folded inwards & sewn in an overcast stitch from right to left at intervals of 4mm. Such sewing could have secured a trimming, perhaps a fdifferent fabric or even fur. the hem of the other piece was formed by folding the edge of the cloth double and then sewing it down, but they type of stitch used is uncertain. The sewing thread was spun from natural white wool, possibly dyed, in contrast to the cloth which was woven from natural brown wool. Three rows of stitching, apparently sewn with two threads of wool, are visible on one cloth. the looped stitches made along the edge would have enabled the cloth to have been sewn to a second piece without the need for a bulky seam. the other two rows of stitches as well as being decorative would have served to strengthen the loops which would otherwise quickly have become detached from the edge. Although an exact parallel is not known, the use of blanket stitches of various complexity for seans was widespread in northern europe. The remainder of the sewing is vestigial and some may merely represent the homely economy of patching-up worn cloth. two ply wool thread, Z-spun and S-twisted has been consistently used for the sewing" So I remembered the herringbone stuff wrong, it didn't comne from Pritchard's paper. However it is mentioned in two other works:- "Textiles Cordage & raw fibre from 16-22 Coppergate" By Penelope Walton Published by the York Archaeology trust. Also Herringbone is mentioned as a seam edging in "Die Textilfunde aus dem Hafen von Haithabu" by Inga Hagg. Other seams are mentioned in "Medieval textuiles from the excavations in the old town of Oslo" Anne Kjellberg and yet another seam in "The analyses of the textiles from Evebo Eide, Gloppen Norway" by Inger Raknes Petersen. The seams & stitches are as follows:- hem overcast rolled with overcasting holding down one edge of roll- Oslo, York hem overcast rolled with overcasting going over complete roll-Haithabu, London hem folded once and overcast- Haithabu hem folded twice & overcast - York hem folded once & herringboned - Haithabu, York Hem no fold, fancy double blanket stitch (see above) London Seam joined with overcasting two folded edges basted with overcasting - Haithabu, York Seam butted & overcast - Haithabu Seam overlapped with both edges overcast- Haithabu Seam overlapped with one edge secured with running stitch the other overcast- Haithabu Seam with one edge folded under & secured with running stitch, the other edge folded up & secured at join with overcasting, Haithabu Run & fell seam (like jeans outer leg seams) one edge secured with running stitch the other with overcasting - York, Oslo Seam with edges folded back once joined with running stitch, no basting to secure raw edges - York Seam edges folded back then joined with running stitch, edges folded in towards one another slightly & secured with overcasting - Haithabu Seam with edges folded back then joined with overcasting, edges stitched together with overcasting -Haithabu Run & fell seam both edges secured with overcasting - Haithabu I haven't got the full references for the other papers with me, but can (eventually) dig them up if nobody else has them. Perhaps I should mention that Haithabu = Hedeby, it's a danish coastal town, & the finds are around a thousand years old. describing seams in text is a bit awkward If anyone wants a sheet of paper with them drawn out I can post them in return for an International Reply Coupon. These can be bought at Post Offices world wide & can be exchanged anywhere for postage on one air mail letter. Email me if you want the sheet & if there aren't too many million of you I won't bother with the I.R.C.s Jennifer jennyb@pdd.3com.com ----------------------- From: jennyb@pdd.3com.com Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 17:27:50 GMT Subject: Re: finishing saxon seams I found the full details of the Hedeby book:- Series title - Ausgrabungen in Haithabu part - 20 Volume Title - Die Textilfunde aus dem Hafen von Haithabu Author - Inga Hagg Publishers - Karl Wachholtz verlag, Neumunster 1984 ISBN 3 529 1920 8 ISSN 0525-5791 Jennifer email - jennyb@pdd.3com.com ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 09:33:32 -0600 (CST) From: "Donna Holsten" Subject: Re: wool treatment In message Sat, 25 Feb 1995 13:36:46 -0800 (PST), samhainsghost writes: > Um This is a really super weenie question I think, but doesn't wool > shrink A LOT if you put it in the washer and then dry it on hot? Actually, yes, it does. From what I understand, the major change in temperature (from hot to cold to hot) is what causes it to shrink, and the agitation is what causes the felting. So you do the hot/cold/hot *before* you make anything from the fabric, and then handwash in *cold* after the garment is made, so that there is no further shrinking or felting. (And you have to buy more wool than you really need, if you're going to pre-shrink it.) I recently wove a lovely wool twill fabric, and finished it by washing on hot, rinsing on cold, and drying on hot. The fabric was 36" wide on the loom, 33" when I took it off of the loom (fabric normally shrinks a little in the loom), and 29" wide after washing/drying. So it was a total of about 25% shrinkage, with a little over 10% being from the washing. Donna Holsten ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 12:40:27 -0500 (EST) From: Elizabeth McMahon Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 236, 2/24/95 On Sun, 26 Feb 1995, Charlene S- Noto wrote: > >Her fiction (published under the name Jean Plaidy) is very well-researched > >for fiction, but that makes her a novelist who does her homework, rather > >than an historian who writes novels. > > Not trying to argue the point on academics, but I always thought that > Jean Plaidy was Victoria Holt, not Antonia Fraser. Hmm. When I worked in the Public Library, the name listed on the card catalog cards for Victoria Holt, Phillippa Carr, and Jean Plaidy was Eleanor Hibbert. Does this mean that Antonia Frasier and Eleanor Hibbert are the same person? I kinda figured that if that info were available through the publishing world (and it usually is), they'd have put the correct name on the cards. And I have to disagree with anyone who wants ot argue Jean Plaidy (or the psuedonym of you choice) as well researched. The characters act nothing like medieval, or Reanaissance, or whatever people, and the background is pretty sketchy at best. Anne Perry, Ellis Peters, and even a lot of less well known current romance writers make her books look like utter trash. Speaking of Anne Perry, she was on the Today show this morning, evidently at the start of a 6 week American book tour. Anyone seen any postings of her stops? And she mentioned in the interview that she'd written historical fiction for years that no one would buy. Anybody ever seen any of this, or know if literally no one ever published it, or was it published and it didn't sell? She is one of my favorite authors. I can feel the scenes she writes so clearly, and the gowns she describes for Emily and Great Aunt Vespasia always make me drool! -*-*- Beth McMahon ----------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 17:59:11 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: Finishing Saxon seams Greetings from Kateryne of Hindcroft: :>From: LDulin@aol.com :>Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:12:45 -0500 :>To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu :>Subject: Pritchard paper : :>Jennifer said: This method of finishing seams is documented :>from Saxon London, There's a paper by Francis Pritchard that describes :>various methods of sewing seams including this one. :>P.S. I can look up the name of the Pritchard paper if anyone wants it. I, too, missed this one. An email would be appreciated. Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ----------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 17:07:50 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: NY Garment district I am going to be at a medical conference in NY city at the end of April. The sessions seem to end about 1PM, so I'll have some time to go shopping (and museum prowling too). I was hoping to go to some of the fabric and trim places I've heard rumors (but no names) as my shopping time. I have also been told that you can get squirrel "by the yard" at some of the furriers for relatively inexpensive. (Sounds bogus to me, but it's worth asking.) Any store name/addresses would be appreciated (email so as not to clog things, of course.) Thanks in advance, Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 10:19:07 -0800 (PST) From: John Burns Subject: Frasier/Holt Greetings; I hope this wouldn't be a duplicate of other information, but there still seems to be some confusion. I remember this from the obit; that Eleanor Burford Hibbert (1906-1993) wrote as Victoria Holt, Jean Plaidy and Philippa Carr (over 200 books). I have never trusted her historical facts, but her early books as Plaidy and Carr brought the past alive for me and sparked my interest in history. Susan ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 13:36:37 EST Subject: Williamsburg clothing workshops Last week, Lynne Title and I attended several workshops sponsored by the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation. The first was on stays and jackets. After brief talks and slides on both topics, we were able to closely examine their reproduction stays and jackets, cut and constructed like the originals. People were able to videotape and take photos of the garments. We next went to a hands-on wigmaking workshop. While we are obviously both beginners, we now know how to construct the equipment and tie on the [real] hair to make the hairpieces. Literature is available at the Williamsburg library (open to everyone) on more intricate techniques and how to actually put the pieces together to form a wig. A workshop on caps showed us a variety of different "mobcaps" ladies wore in teh 18th century. The costume shop previously held a "cap-a-thon" for its employees where teams of three were to produce two caps apiece. They had to research, document, and construct the caps. The costume shop ended up with 17 different designs, all documented. We ended up with patterns, and source lists. This was just on one day. The whole "Winter Discovery" series ran the entire week. On Saturday, the costume shop held an open house. We saw how a large-scale operation worked, fondled silk corduroy, learned how to make thread buttons, learned the fundamentals of fly fringe, and got to try on and be photographed in some of the CWF costumes. All of this was free with a Patriot Pass or a one-day pass (these do cost, but a Patriot Pass is $30 for a year's worh of visits). It was very interesting and helpful for those doing 18th century costuming. CW has learned a lot over the past years, and we even got to see the rejects -- the garments they used in the past, before they knew better (wrong colors, print patterns, fabrics, etc.). I highly recommend the experience. We put our addresses down for a mailing list, so if I get any more information on future workshops, I will post it. We also gave the costume shop people this list address. Thanks to the people on the costume list who put this information out. We had a great time! Hope to see some of you there next year. Kathleen (kathleen@anstec.com) ----------------------- End of Volume 244 -----------------------