From: Gretchen Miller Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 18:30:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 245, 3/3/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 245, March 3, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Where Victorians stored their clothes ISO: Info on 18th C wigmaking Costume journals/periodicals Fulling dags/wool Who is Harold Pinter? Squirrels and the NYC Garment district ISO: What the Jannessaries wore ISO: Info on making houppalande sleeves Pantyhose history ISO: Diane Collins from Carnegie Mellon Particolor documentation Getting the Saxon Seams citations ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 12:29:52 -0600 (CST) From: Helen Mayo Subject: Re: Victorian closets Just an historical-languge note: my mother *still* calls closets "clothes presses;" a holdover, I think, from her mother's time. The only thing she calls a "closet" is the "hall closet" where we hang up out-door coats and sweaters. I remember the house that my Mom grew up in had miniscule closets. Instead each room had a full chest-of-drawers for each person. Helen Mayo UT Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas On Mon, 27 Feb 1995 KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM wrote: > Nancy Fernandez asks about Victorian closets > > To my knowledge, they used "clothes presses" or armoires and chests of drawers. ----------------------- From: esacke@mail.wm.edu (ackert elizabeth s) Date: 24 Feb 95 09:55:11 Subject: Request to Post Message RE: 18th-c Wigs & Wigmaking I am posting this message for a colleague who does not have access to the Internet... The Wig Shop at the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation is seeking information on 18th-century wigs and wigmaking. Specifically: 18th-century American and European wigs for study and documentation 18th-century wigmaking and barber tools Manuscript and published resources relating to 18th-century wigmakers, peruke-makers, barbers, etc. Please respond to my email (esacke@mail.wm.edu) or to the snailmail listed below: Marilyn Wetton, Historic Trades Colonial Williamsburg Foundation PO Box 1776 Williamsburg, VA 23187-1776 (804) 229-1000 ext.2539 or 2731 Many thanks, Liz Ackert %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % Liz Ackert Colonial Williamsburg % % Public Services Librarian Foundation Library % % esacke@mail.wm.edu PO Box 1776 % % TEL (804) 220-7419 415 North Boundary St. % % FAX (804) 221-8902 Williamsburg, VA 23187 % %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ----------------------- From: VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 12:40:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: more on storage of clothing >From _The Ladies' Book of Etiquette, and Manual of Politeness_, by Florence Hartley. Boston: J. S. Locke & Co., 1860. Reprinted in 1993 by Amazon Vinegar & Pickling Works Drygoods, Ltc., pp.22-23 "The many articles required in a lady's wardrobe make a neat arrangement of her drawers and closets necessary, and also require care in selecting and keeping goods in proper order. A fine collar or lace, if tumbled or soiled, will lose its beauty when contrasted with the same article in the coarsest material perfectly pure and smooth. Each article of dress, when taken off, should be placed carefully and smoothly in its proper place. Nice dresses should be hung up by a loop on the inside of the waistband, with the skirts turned inside out, and the body turned inside of the skirt. cloaks should hang in smooth folds from a loop on the inside of the neck. Shawls should be always folded in the creases in which they were purchased. All fine articles, lace, embroidery, and handkerchiefs, should be placed by them- selves in a drawer, always laid out smoothly, and kept from dust. Furs should be kept in a box, alone, and in summer carefully packed, with a quantity of lump camphor to protect from moths. The bonnet should always rest upon a stand in the band-box, as the shape and trimming will both be injured by letting it lie either on the face, sides, or crown." Vicki Betts vicki@lib.uttyl.edu ----------------------- From: Gordon Monson Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 12:35:17 -0800 Subject: Costuming periodicals/magazines jkubenka@sun.cis.smu.edu asked for info on periodicals more oriented to costuming. Two that I value a lot are: Costume (the annual publication of The Costume Society [British]) and Dress (the annual publication of The Costume Society of America). Both of these are membership publications, though you can order back issues as available without being a member. The articles are mostly scholarly and historical, not "how-to." Janet Arnold often publishes in *Costume.* If you join either organization, you also get newsletters (usually quarterly) and announcements of meetings, etc. I have been a member of both for many years, and get a lot of good info from the publications. Cindy Rosser mentioned CSA News as a possibility; this is one of the aforementioned newsletters. It does *not* have articles about costume, but does include exhibit announcements for museums all over the US. It is more a publication that carries the mechanics of the organization forward (Costume Society of America): announcements, upcoming events, book reviews, job opportunities. Any other questions about this group can be addressed to me; I used to publish the Regional newsletter for the Western US. Both the above mentioned organizations are mostly composed of museum people, collectors and teachers, with a few oddballs like me who just like to *make* historical costume! Shelley Monson monsons@hooked.net ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 14:18:07 -0600 From: eeross@Okway.okstate.edu (Ellen Ross) Subject: Fulled dags Concerning dagging fulled cloth without seams and hems: a friend of mine made herself a beautiful grey wool cloak, which hung to about her calves. She made the mistake of ironing it with steam heat, and was left with a heavily fulled child's cape, since it barely reached to her thighs. I cut simple dagging into the edges, and it did indeed hold up beautifully. Another acquaintance told me that if you want heavier fulling, throw the material in a cold drier after washing. A warm dryer will cause less shrinkage and tightening of the weave. ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 17:00:38 -0500 (EST) From: Elizabeth McMahon Subject: Re: Fulled dags On Mon, 27 Feb 1995, Ellen Ross wrote: > > Another acquaintance told me that if you want heavier fulling, throw > the material in a cold drier after washing. A warm dryer will cause > less shrinkage and tightening of the weave. In the textiles courses I took, we were taught that it is the *combination* of heat/moisture/agitation that causes the wool to felt/shrink. A warm dryer will cause more, not less shrinkage. Wearing a blet on a wool dress in rainy weather (for example) will also cause felting. Wool's biological structure is strands with scales on them, which is what cause both the characteristic "scratchy" feel, and the felting action: the scales get all tangled and hooked on one another. -*-*- Beth in the office 212-741-4400 ----------------------- From: "Pamela C. Rowe" Subject: Re: Antonia Fraser, husband of Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 16:21:40 -0600 (CST) I'm probably showing my ignorance, but who is Harold Pinter? He seemed to be cited as someone of importance, so I'd like to amend my ignorant state. Please email if he has nothing to do with the study of historical costume. Pam Rowe prowe@us1.msrcnavo.navy.mil Forwarded message: > From: 2Lt Aryeh JS Nusbacher > Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 236, 2/24/95 > To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 15:06:03 EST > In-Reply-To: <8jHYuwm00iV9I9CEt6@andrew.cmu.edu>; from "Gretchen Miller" at Feb 24, 95 4:25 pm > > BTW, is Frasier considered a reliable researcher? She's also the author > > of a very readable bio of Mary Queen of Scots. > > Antonia Fraser is not a credible academic writer. > > > > She is, however, married to Harold Pinter. > > Aryk Nusbacher ----------------------- From: alana_guy@broder.com Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 11:48:50 Subject: Re: NY Garment district That's a heck of a lot of squirrels!!! >X-ccAdmin: postmaster@crl >To: grm+@andrew.cmu.edu >Subject: NY Garment district > >I am going to be at a medical conference in NY city at the end of April. The >sessions seem to end about 1PM, so I'll have some time to go shopping (and >museum prowling too). I was hoping to go to some of the fabric and trim >places I've heard rumors (but no names) as my shopping time. I have also >been told that you can get squirrel "by the yard" at some of the furriers >for relatively inexpensive. (Sounds bogus to me, but it's worth asking.) > >Any store name/addresses would be appreciated (email so as not to clog >things, of course.) > >Thanks in advance, >Kat ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 13:00:48 -0800 (PST) From: Gwen Carnegi Subject: Re: NY Garment district On Sat, 25 Feb 1995, June Russell wrote: > I am going to be at a medical conference in NY city at the end of April. The > sessions seem to end about 1PM, so I'll have some time to go shopping (and > museum prowling too). I was hoping to go to some of the fabric and trim > places I've heard rumors (but no names) as my shopping time. > > Any store name/addresses would be appreciated (email so as not to clog > things, of course > > Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) > pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com > Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! > Hello Kateryne; I have several sorts of sources for you, some of which may require a resale # and a minimun yardage purchase (usually around 10yds). For trim and wonderful fabrics, try La Lame at 212-921-9770. They do not require a resale but make an appointment with someone to see stock. No min. A.Wimpfheimer & Bro. at 800-223-7228 or 212-563-3400 sell velveteens (last catolog had 85 different colors) and I don't remember if you needed a resale or not, but they do have minimums. De Luxe Velvets,212-563-1766, sells good cooton velvet. Japanesse dye lots, retail & wholesale. I think it was a 7yd min. Thats all I can remember for NY. I designed formals in LA so my sources are a bit focused. All good deals were in town due to the proximity of "Modern Orient Trade Routes". I have some great button companies but they are on the west coast.You could also try to locate a textile directory for NY (TALA on the west coast) but call first before going shopping- stock always seems to be changing & some companies will advertise stock they don't really carry (check the wool catagories and you'll see what I mean). This should get you started, email me if you have any questions. Gwyn ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 18:47:26 EST From: PGVH14D@prodigy.com (MS JANIE W TOPP) Subject: Ottoman Janissaries Can anyone provide sources for the uniforms of the 16C Ottoman Janissary corps? Thanks Bob ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 16:22:38 -0800 (PST) From: Gwen Carnegi Subject: Hoppelande Sleeves Saluations, I'm about to undertake the making of a hoppelande for a friends wedding and I'm anxious about getting the sleeves to hang properly. If I still had the facilities (school & work) I'd drape the sleeve, but *sigh* that is not to be. I understand from several people that a 1/4 twist to sleeve head or the two piece sleeve in Hoeboker(sp?) will work just fine but I would trust a draped sleeve over a flat patterned sleeve for this. Has anyone tried both methods? If you cut on bias insted of straight grain, does the sleeve naturally make the "twist" when the lower arm is raised? I'm curious as to any changes the draping will make in placement of the seams. Thanks- Gwyn ------------------------------------------------------ Gwyn Carnegie | "The truth, they say, is relative. gcarnegi@netcom.com | Relative to what you are prepared to believe." ------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 17:15:02 PST From: susanf@EERC.Berkeley.Edu (Susan Fatemi) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 238, 2/27/95 Thiis is probably off-topic but regarding the ubiquitous and disgusting nylon pantihose as "standard office wear", they can only bully you if you let them! I happen to like the longer, flowing skirt (mid-calf, not ankle) and one reason is that I can wear knee-highs with them. Cotton tights in the winter (it doesn't get very cold here). I admit our office is very casual (I could wear jeans every day, but then what would I do on the week-ends, wear nylons??) but I'm sure I could pass muster in a law office or bank if need be. Women unite! You have nothing to lose but nylon-rash and yeast infections (sorry). For the person who couldn't buy bras off the peg, Have your tried 1)olgas or 2)Balis? Best wishes for comfortable clothes (historic and otherwise) Susan Fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 20:56:30 -0400 (EST) From: dbrowne Subject: re:Felting I experminted in the recent past with the felting of wool. Here are several of the things that where noticed: 1) The felting process worked best with very hot water, so hot that it almost scalded my hands. 2) The fulling went well with cold water directally from the tap. 3) It was not until after both these processes took place that a usable piece of fabric resulted.(I assume that the same would hold true for woven cloth). 4) The ability of the fibers to felt to gether was differant for each type of wool we used. We tried a very clean Morino (sp?) fleece some left natural and some dyed. We also tried a greasy fleece from a Morino cross lamb (1st shearing). Finaly we tried a non washed but less greasy fleece from an unknown lamb (1st shearing). We recieved very different results from the same technique as well as very differant shrinking amounts. This might be the reason that such different results are obtained from the felting processes that have been discribed. I just thought it was interesting. --Kathy B. --Katrinn ----------------------- From: gst6710@msu.oscs.montana.edu Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 20:46:06 MST Subject: Re: Saxon seams I also would be very interested in this Pritchard paper. I seem to have missed the original posting. Thanks. Morgan gst6710@msu.oscs.montana.edu ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 12:30:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Georgia O. Baker - Theatre Arts" Subject: D. Collins Hi. My name is Georgia Baker. I had a student named Diane Collins who went to CMU. Do you know if she is still in your area? Also, does anyone know any good books on biblical costumes. I'm doing Superstar this summer and could use your input. Thanks. ----------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 23:45:18 -0500 (CST) From: Cindy Johnson Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 238, 2/27/95 On Mon, 27 Feb 1995, Susan Fatemi wrote: > This is probably off-topic but regarding the ubiquitous and disgusting > nylon pantihose as "standard office wear", they can only bully you if you > let them! I happen to like the longer, flowing skirt (mid-calf, not ankle) > and one reason is that I can wear knee-highs with them. I've seen several women voice this solution and it certainly works up to a point. I have recently found a solution which works better for me with my shorter and/or straighter skirts. Many hoisery companies have updated and improved their thigh-high hoisery. I am speaking of the ones which do not require garters. When thigh-highs were first introduced, they managed to stay up by creating a tourniquet-like grip on your upper thigh through the sheer strength of the elastic used. This situation has changed. They now come in a variety of sizes and make use of several lines of silicon gel on the inside of the upper band to hold them up. They still have elastic, but it is of a much more reasonable nature. The brand I use and enjoy is Hanes Silk Reflections. I highly reccommend them with even the shortest skirt. For the larger women in our reading audience, please note that these stockings were first reccommended to me by a rather large woman who thought they were a godsend. Seemingly the hoisery companies have heard our cry for a better solution to comfort and hygiene problems. Think of it as an evolving history of hoisery through the ages. Cindy ----------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 07:26:03 -0600 (CST) From: Jennifer Kubenka Subject: Re: Saxon seams On Mon, 27 Feb 1995 gst6710@msu.oscs.montana.edu wrote: > I also would be very interested in this Pritchard paper. I seem to have missed > the original posting. > > Thanks. > > Morgan > gst6710@msu.oscs.montana.edu > > Oh sheesh, I must have had my head in some ILL'ed blackwork/holbein books to miss this one. What paper, it sounds really cool, and I am definitely interested. Jennifer D. Kubenka Series Authority/Monographs Cataloger Fondren Library Southern Methodist University Dallas, Texas ----------------------- From: jennyb@pdd.3com.com Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 14:24:36 GMT Subject: herjolfsnes info. posters address? Sorry to clutter the list with this, but could the list-member who posted me the paper on the greenland kirtles get in touch please? I accidentally deleted her address & now I can't write back :-( Jennifer jennyb@pdd.3com.com ----------------------- From: Title-L_at_nctsw-n92@smtpgw.nctsw.navy.mil Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 09:21:38 -0500 Subject: eureka - let's parti! At long last! My thanks to all who "parti-cipated" in the Great Cotehardie Hunt; my first "solid" period source for a woman's particolored cotehardie has surfaced! I found it in Williamsburg, of all places, when Kathleen and I went down last weekend (a wonderful experience, by the way; hands-on, in-depth, very friendly. Motto of the workshops could have been "This is a work in progress. We're doing better; go thou and try your hand at it too - and tell us what you come up with!" Kathleen's note says it all.) On page 336 of the _Oxford Illustrated History of Medieval Europe_ is a tapestry from Ranberg, dated to c. 1390, with rondels depicting various secular lovers including Tristan and Iseult. The men wear short pourpoints or cotehardies and hose, some parti, some plain; several of the ladies wear tight off-the-shoulder particolored cotehardies with goblet cuffs, in gold-and-white or red-and-white. The ladies not wearing crowns and loose hair (the drape of the hair clearly shows the gown sleeve to stop just below the ball of the shoulder) wear helmet-type headdresses/hats; one of these is gold, another the red of the gown. Just what I was looking for! Now I'll hit the tapestry books to find out who ran Ranberg then (the lettering on the tapestry is in German), where the tapestries were likely woven (I seem to remember that at one time [15th or 16th cent?] manuscripts calligraphed in England were sent to French workshops to be illustrated, so that the fashions shown in these English works were actually the French designs of the time. Could be a similar mismatch - French or Brussels for German, maybe? here?) and if anyone else shows those helmet-hats in better detail. If anyone else finds more, please let me know - and thanks again for all the fish! Lynn mice, fabric and beef jerky do mix, but not in the same drawer... ----------------------- From: jennyb@pdd.3com.com Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 15:00:13 GMT Subject: finishing saxon seams Hello, I posted a message about various papers on finishing saxon seams to the h-costume list, but I still keep seeing queries for the information. I think maybe some big gateway went down & the message got lost? I know it made it to the list because it was echoed back to me. Anyway it was quite a long post, so rather than fill up the list with posting it again anyone who wants the info could either:- (a) retrieve the digest version of the list that has it on (sorry I don't know which number digest, but I'd guess the most recent). (b) email me (not the list) personally & I'll email the info to you. If some area has gateway problems & is losing mail you might have to ask me more than once to get a reply, but persevere & eventually something ought to work! (Am I asking for a cluttered mailbox here I wonder?) My address is jennyb@pdd.3com.com Jennifer ----------------------- End of Volume 245 -----------------------