From: Gretchen Miller Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 17:59:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 250, 3/7/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 250, March 7, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: History of underwear/pantyhose Otto Titzslinger (was history of the bra) Tea dying Nature of silk in the middle ages/renaissance Taking stains out of silk Lifeforms and other computer costuming programs History of snaps Article about 17thC men's footwear/buffcoats Fabric store shortage Dyeing book information Favorite Folkwear patterns Costume Con Experiments with natural dyes Fulling/felting wool ----------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 08:15:20 CDT From: donna parker Subject: More on underwear In 1966, my mother still had me strapped in that garter belt and wouldn't allow those skirts to come above the knee, but I remember that in early high school (1969) wearing a girdle and hose, and away from that ever watchful eye, rolling my skirts up around my waist so they would reach mid-calf (or higher). Crossing your legs while sitting was a challenge. When we were in college, a friend of mine took one of her mini-skirts (she was allowed to wear them), sewed a seam across the bottom, added a strap and had an instant purse. Looking back, I find it interesting that in 1970 our school's dress code prohibited wearing pants and floor length skirts. The following year all that went out the window - jeans, tie-dyed t-shirts, and even no bras were allowed. Donna Parker ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 11:24:55 EST Subject: Re: More on underwear On the dating of pantyhose, I'm an old fart and I remember wearing panythose in the early 60s. I graduated from high school in 1965 and I wore pantyhose before then. The Random House Dictionary of the English Language (2nd ed., unabridged) dates them from 1960-1965. I agree with that. Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com ----------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 08:37:08 -0800 (PST) From: "RuthAnn M. Saylor" Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 242, 3/1/95 On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Diana Dills wrote: > I read somewhere that the bra was invented shortly before the turn of the > century by a man named Otto Titzslinger (No kidding!) in Germany or > Austria...anyone care to look this up, and find out if it's true or if > some dressmaker was having a laugh at the expense of a gullible reporter? > > DIANA DILLS > > I have heard the same name and timeframe, so maybe that dress maker's laugh really traveled? - Rhodry ----------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 08:41:51 -0800 (PST) From: "RuthAnn M. Saylor" Subject: Re: Re[2]: dyeing white to ivory On Thu, 2 Mar 1995 MLHardy@aol.com wrote: > Hi I'm new so forgive me if I do something wrong. But when you tea dye > fabric, do you have to treat it first - the fabric I mean. I was wondering > when you wash it does it come out. > > Thanks > > Michelle Hardy Harrington, DE > In may experience with tea dye (which is quite limited - tea bath for sun burn and washcloth changed to nifty color) the dye wont come out with regular washing. I had to use lemon juice to bleach the dye out. Hope this answers your question. Rhodry ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 11:57:29 EST Subject: silk For those of you who requested it, the citation for "A Silk Worker's Notebook" follows. It is by Cheryl Kolander, Interweave Press, Inc. 306 North Washington Ave., Loveland, CO80537. ISBN 0-934026-18-1. Price was $12. I got it from WinterSilks (a catalog of all sorts of [modern] silk clothing), 2700 Laura Lane, P.O. Box 620130, Middleton, WI 53562. Customer service phone # is 1-800- 621-3229 M-F 8am to 5pm CST. Kolander says that the Roman women unwove the heavy Chinese silk to reweave into gauzes. She also repeats the story of the 2 monks who smuggled silkworms out of either China or Northern India and took them to Constantinople during the reign of Justinian. Then the Arabs took up silk cultivation and weaving, and then the Italians. Venice, Lucca, and Florence were known for their silk from the 14th century. They specilaized in heavy brocades and silk velvet (I've seen medieval Italian silk velvet -- it is yummy.) The Piedmont region was reknown for raw silk. Silk weaving and cultivation spread into France with emigre Italian weavers (from the time of Louis XI on). Finally, the English tried it, but the climate wasn't right. Spitalfields and Macclesfield became silk centers. The book is very comprehensive, describing all types of silk, weaves, and how to care for and dye silk. It also lists suppliers and gives a good bibliography. I hope it's still in print. It convinced me to stop sending my silk blouses to the dry cleaners and hand wash (or machine wash) them myself, which has saved me big bucks. BTW, Dawn dishwashing soap is great for getting grease stains out of silk. Just color test it on a section of the fabric thast won't be seen. I have never known it to discolor or de-color my silk. Also, for a quick de-greaser (like if you spill something greasy or oily down your blouse), try powder papers from Crabtree & Evelyn. They're tissue papers impregnated with nearly colorless powder & used for taking the shine off your nose. If I get a grease spot on a blouse, I thoroughly rub the spot down with the powder paper, both inside and outside, wait a few minutes, then brush it off. Nearly always sucks that spot right out. Like the old fullers earth was used for. Hope this helps. Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com ----------------------- From: alana_guy@broder.com Date: Thu, 02 Mar 95 13:58:45 Subject: Re[2]: computer costuming I've seend Lifeforms used, and unless you have a BA in computer graphics, don't beat your head against a wall. Maybe you could cheaply hire a competent artist to help you with your sketches - check out your local college, some figure drawing and illustration students are DYING to do stuff like this - sometimes for free as portfolio pieces, sometimes for minimal pay. Several years ago at Santa Rosa Junior College, I was taking a computer class and, in the lab, a fashion design student was using a computer program with an overall effect similar to paper dolls - as far as I could tell, only one body size (female, the usual fashion model legs-up-to-here type) with the student responsible for modifying and coloring basic clothing shapes. I didn't think the results were particularly attractive, but it might work for you. I think what the teacher did was make a hypercard stack. I shall try to follow up/look into this for you. I'm not a costume designer myself, by I have a friend for whom I occasionally do plates (she can draw clothes but has trouble with proportions & faces. On Fri, 9 Dec 1994, Robin Findlay wrote: > > Does anyone know of a software package that will let me do the figure > drawings on the computer? I want one that will let me manipulate the body > to different positions and make the body tall and thin and short and stocky. > this would simplify doing hundreds of plates for say....shakespear or > those musicals that call for hundreds of dances and characters. > > Email me if you know of such an animal > > Robin > still looking has anyone used "lifeforms" by macromedia? ----------------------- From: HCS9@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 12:20:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Snaps Snaps were invented in the nineteenth century according to "The Evolution of Useful Things" by Henry Petroski (pub. Knopf, 1992), a wonderful and fascinating book. There is only a brief reference to snap fasteners in the chapter dealing with zips, but the book as a whole is really worth a read; it deals not only with individual items, like the zip or the fork, but the actual process of development and how it has changed over the years. BTW, snaps are still called press-studs in the U.K. -- Helen ----------------------- From: "Lassman, Linda" Subject: More on underwear Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 09:54:00 PST From: donna parker (Snip) >Looking back, I find it interesting that in 1970 our school's dress >code prohibited wearing pants and floor length skirts. The following >year all that went out the window - jeans, tie-dyed t-shirts, and even >no bras were allowed. > >Donna Parker And other school dress code oddities-- When I was in school in the late 50s-mid 60s, girls couldn't wear pants to school. If the weather was REALLY cold, you could wear pants under your dress on the way to and from school (we all walked back then, and everyone went home for lunch, too!), but you had to take them off once you got there. In 1967-68, the high school allowed girls to wear pants, but not blue denim pants (in the days when jeans only came in blue!). I remember making a pantsuit out of a lightweight light blue denim fabric and being really smug at breaking the rule in such a way that I didn't get caught! I seem to recall that the ban on jeans didn't get lifted for another couple of years. Interestingly, by the late 60s there was no prohibition on mini skirts, tie-dyed things or any other styles of clothing, but possibly because this was a university town and therefore "more cosmopolitan" (or more corrupted!) than most other towns in the state. - Linda Lassman formerly of Lawrence, Kansas ----------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 11:47:04 -0600 (CST) From: "Sharon L. Nelson" Subject: Article on 17th c. men's footwear / buffcoats (Apologies if this was posted previously...) I just came across a very good article on recreating men's footwear of the English Civil War era. The article is "17th Century Boots and Shoes Reconstructed" by Mark Beabey, in _Military History Illustrated Past & Present_ # 57 (Feb. 1993), pp. 17-23. (This is a British publication and back issues are available from the publisher. If anyone wants the pub. address let me know & I'll post it, but it may take me a couple days as I'm in digest mode.) The article also references another article (in issue #54) on how to construct buffcoats by the same author. I haven't seen that, but if it's as good as the one on footwear I'm sure it would be helpful. Sharon SCA - Maria Anna von Rabenstern =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ + Sharon L. Nelson sln@nccseq.noctrl.edu + | Systems Administrator, Computer Support | + North Central College, Naperville, IL 60540 + =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ ----------------------- From: "Kathryn Gomm" Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 12:04:16 CDT Subject: Otto Titslinger On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Diana Dills wrote: > I read somewhere that the bra was invented shortly before the turn of the > century by a man named Otto Titzslinger (No kidding!) in Germany or > Austria...anyone care to look this up, and find out if it's true or if > some dressmaker was having a laugh at the expense of a gullible reporter? > > DIANA DILLS On Fri, 3 Mar 1995 RuthAnn M. Saylor wrote: I have heard the same name and timeframe, so maybe that dress maker's laugh really traveled? - Rhodry As far as I can remember, Bette Middler wrote a song (one of the few written by herself) with Otto Titslinger as the main subject. It was from Bette's Movie "Beaches". Kathryn Gomm ----------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 10:08:11 -0800 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Fabric stores Someone mentioned nice fabric stores going out of business & leaving areas with only a choice of very expensive or cheapo chains as fabric store choices...I don't know where the posting was from, but the area of Oregon I live in has the same problem. I find I either have to travel 2 hours to the nearest large city, or get most of my fabric by mail-order if I want anything but the basic lines the chains carry or the overpriced "gourmet" fabrics in the small stores. THis really becomes a problem when I'm looking for fabric for reproduction clothing. Alison ----------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 10:55:35 PST From: "cynthia" Subject: Dyeing book For all you would-be dyers: _The Art and Craft of Natural Dyeing: Traditional Recipes for Modern Use_ by J.N. Liles, Knoxville: University of Tennessee Press, 293 Communications Bldg, Knoxville TN 37996-0325, 1990. Phone: 312.568.1550 or 800.621.2736 (orders only). ISBN 0.8704.96697 (hard) 0.8704.96700 (paper). Paperback copy costs US $25.00, hardback is US $39.95. I love this book! The author is a bio-chemist at the Univ of Tenn. His recipes are clear, technically excellent and thorough; he cites the original sources. The recipes include vegetable, mineral and chemical methods of dying. He discusses mordants, ways to ensure your dyed fabrics dont streak or spot, safe handling of chemicals, disposal of used dyestuffs. Each dye recipe includes how to care for the fabric. Some processes are not lightfast, like the tumeric & saffron recipes discussed here a few months back. I just re-dye the item every 6-12 months. --cin For the onion skin dye: the DRY skins of yellow onion make a terra cotta orange. I did several dishtowels for a museum 2 summers ago and they still havent faded. (They've seen alot of washings.) For a black: vinegar & iron filings (I use old steel wool) heated to 190'F. This formula, Liles says, has been known for 3000 yrs. ----------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 11:03:46 PST From: "cynthia" Subject: More on underwear No one has mentioned that awkward era around 1966 when skirts had risen to mid-thigh, but pantyhose had not yet been invented. The dresses we wore were innocent little shifts and trapeze dresses, very easy to move in, but modesty still limited our movement. Danine Cozzens Imagine the very sensible Mrs. Cozzins, Grande Dame of the Bay Area English Regency Society, fan of Jane Austin, paragon of virtue, emblem of motherhood and flower of feminity confessing to mini-skirts. --cin ----------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 13:22:05 -0800 (PST) From: Kerstin Nelson Subject: Re: More on underwear I seem to be the one who started the date thread on pantyhose. I was a sophomore at Mills College in the fall of 1961 which is when I bought my first pair. They cost $5.00 and I thought they were worth every penny. Kerstin Nelson khn42@rain.org ----------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 12:31:38 -0600 From: dssweet@Okway.okstate.edu (Deborah Sweet) Subject: RE: Bras & Titzslinger >I read somewhere that the bra was invented shortly before the turn of the >century by a man named Otto Titzslinger (No kidding!) in Germany or >Austria...anyone care to look this up, and find out if it's true or if >some dressmaker was having a laugh at the expense of a gullible reporter? >DIANA DILLS There is a question in Trivial Pursuit that also states Mr. Titzslinger is the creator of the bra. (Not that Trivial Pursuit is correct in everything on the cards, but... makes one wonder, doesn't it?) Deborah Sweet ----------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 14:07:50 PST From: Loren_Dearborn@casmail.calacademy.org (Loren Dearborn) Subject: Re: Folkwear >Does Folkwear have any patterns which would fall in the >middle ground of not just being "squares & rectangles", but >not limited in size range? I think the Poiret Cocoon Coat falls into this category, and it's pretty easy to make, leaving you plenty of time for the embelishments... The empire gown sort of falls into this category too; friends of mine and myself have all made several very different dresses out of this pattern all of which looked great despite wild differences in height/bust etc. between us all. Although it would be nice to do something a little more complex, the milkmaid pattern has always interested me and the newer patterns are all a nice change (just got the traveller and the 1920's gallenga). Tootle-lu, Loren Dearborn ldearborn@calacademy.org ----------------------- From: Marsha Hamilton Subject: Re: CostumeCon Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 17:09:44 -0500 (EST) > > > > Sorry to go off the subject, but where is CostumeCon this year? It's in Toronto, Canada. ----------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 14:06:21 PST From: stevet@water.ca.gov 03 March 1995 Subject: homemade dyes As a kid I covered my smaller airplanes in paper and my larger ones in cloth. "Dope"ing them often made them heavier than I wished. So... I experimented. Cloth: Keeping the detachable rollers from Grandma's washing machine handy, I used pail, tub or what not and "extract" of wild berry (well cooked - as in thick - & cheesecloth strained juice) to good advantage. Proper dilutions and multiple passes usually gave the desired color. Mixing "extracts" to make different colors was usually best done in the "tub" rather than separate passes. Small piece was test run and solution modified to taste. Cloth was pre-wet before first run ( and again between runs if allowed to dry - as in continuing next day). Cloth was hot washed, no detergent, to shrink (tighten weave), since this was for model planes, as last phase and line dried. Process made nice colors and avoided the heaviness of paint or "dope" (colored and clear). As for permanence - Ever tried to get cranberry stain out of your sofa? Paper: Probably not appropriate here, but the "lady's aerosol" (the rubber bulb on rubber tube type) worked VERY well. (Pre-damp best.) Both: To "blend" tones or vary density/color on a single surface I used the aerosol method. Time consuming, but VERY effective. With a little patience, tie dye effects can be accomplished. Tape or wax and patience can achieve near pin-stripe effect. (Bleeding does occur, and if planned on ... how artistic are you?) Bleach lightens. Pure "extract" darkens. Control your dampness. The tea or berry stain problem is easily handled. Clorox (tm) at 2 cups per full standard bath-tub or stronger and 5-6 hours gets the stain out. Teaspoon per cup cleans cups in seconds. Helps - but not necessary - if those green-scrubbers are used first. Rinse well. Mother decided early on that since there were no girls in the house the boys would learn ALL her skills too. Paid off many a time. Not only were my free-flight planes up longer, there were prettier. Steve ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 17:53:01 EST Subject: Re: Dyeing book Re: Cin's comments on Liles' book on dying. It really is excellent. A friend of mine did a couple of "color wheels" a few years back. They consisted of wool dyed and mordanted with natural dyes and mordants that were available pr-1600. A list of the ingrediants accompanied the wheel and she had done a huge paper documenting her research. It was amazing what beautiful bright colors she had obtained. I carry it around to shove up the noses of those people who say they didn't wear this-or-that color in the Middle Ages or the 17th/18th centuries. Sure has stopped a lot of arguments. Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com ************************************ Remember: A costume isn't finished until it has cat hair on it. ************************************ ----------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 14:53:49 -0800 (PST) From: Strupp Carole Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume ... On Fri, 3 Mar 1995 RCarnegie@aol.com wrote: > > > This is the purpose of fulling. The process exchanges some of the > dimensions of the wool, for thickness, the more important quality if the > garment is to be relied upon for warmth. > > I use the same cheaters method of fulling the was listed here (washing > and drying) and the result is good. However the process should be done over > and over again to get a trully fulled finish. A description of the proper > period technique (1750s) is included in Beth Gilguins wonderful little book. > > R Carnegie > > I came in late on this discussion, so ignore me if I'm off the subject. If you wash and dry wool fabric in a dryer you get felted fabric. This is not the same as fulled fabric. Modern out-of-the-fabric-store 100% wool has mostly been processed for preshrinking. Before you use, it pressing it with a steam iron or doing "the London shink" --love that name, is a good idea in case it needs to shrink a little before you make it into something. To do the "London shrink" lay the wool fabric in a single layer on a damp sheet and leave it there until it dries. If space is a problem it can be folded loosely to dry, but keep one side of the wool against the damp sheet. If its going to shink when it gets wet it will at this point. If you want heavy, felted, thick wool fabric do the washer and dryer thing.Depending on what you are making this might be the result you want. C. Bloomsburg ----------------------- End of Volume 250 -----------------------