From: Gretchen Miller Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 273, 4/5/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 273, April 5, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: CD-ROM suggestion Leg painting anecdote ISO: Affordable silk stockings CD-ROM vs Web page Source for women's travelling clothes circa 19thC Historic Costume in "Jefferson in Paris" Source of lasts for reenactors Question and answer: How to use collar buttons ISO:Carolyn Fraser Historic dance events, SF Bay area Sources for everyday costume On Bloomers What's a last? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BEARLEE1@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 20:21:23 -0500 Subject: CD Rom.. Leg Painting.. Good "whatever it is wherever you are"! The only trouble with getting lists in digest form is that you are answering "new to you" posts that are all ready old hat to those receiving direct. Of course the good part is that you at least get to them. Or at least I do... But late or not. Let me add a vote for a CD Rom on costuming. And PLEASE start with the premise that it be readable, by both IBM and Mac users! And that is another whole debate.... Then may I suggest that the museums that you visit first, be the ones where sketches and drafts are available, but where if would be wonderful to see the clothes that they were sketched from... Like say Norah Waugh's for instance, seeing how her books are out again in a new reprint. Or Janet Arnold's. That just happens to be the era I work in most, but would really enjoy anything in that line. And costumes from old and/or new would be ever so much fun too... Then would come just how much you could show. The thought is wonderfully mind boggling.... If there is any way I could be of service. Gulp!. And to add a little antidote to the leg painting. Told a cast of "--------Jimmy Dean" a while back that where hose were so expensive in the fifties, that we would wear while bobby socks over the hose in our saddle shoes and when we couldn't afford a pair we would paint a seam on our legs with ebrow pencil. So where the panty hose of today are seamless, why not use an eyebrow pencil to draw the seam instead. Never accured to "old" me that they wouldn't get the drift, until I got a fantic call that.......they drew the lines okay... got on their pantyhose ok.....but when they had to go to the bathroom, they couldn't match up the mark on the pantyhose with the one on their legs! Thus......either disaster or not potty stops allowed!... Never occured to me that they would do both. It was good for a giggle for some time.... Carole in Connecticut ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:11 CST From: tallison@mcs.com (Tim Allison) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 266, 3/30/95 Does anyone know where to buy silk stockings for less than $25 a pair? There used to be a place called FUNN in England that apparently went out of business, and the only place I've found since is Garnet Hill (mail order catalog) which is terribly expensive. Knee highs are available for under $10, so I don't understand the pricing. Thanks Carol Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 10:40:02 BST From: Alan Braggins Subject: Re: CD-ROM, Web pages. > WEB: Cons - excruciatingly slow access time prohibits the use of > quicktime/sound as tutorials or examples, subject the whim of net > problems, fairly pricey for the person(s) running the server(s). Plenty of Web sites do have downloadable movies or sounds, so it needn't be totally ruled out. Access time depends on the server, your machine, and net traffic anywhere on the route between them. > sale of title could be used to support some worthy cause, > CD: Cons - relatively expensive to mass produce, copyright issues for > contributors While CD production costs are dropping, this sounds like the most likely "worthy cause" to support is "cover production costs". Copyright issues apply just as much to a Web page (at least in theory). However, contributors might want a share of CD proceeds (if any) which wouldn't apply to a Web page. The obvious compromise is to use a Web site while it's a work in progress, and ask contributors for permission to use their work for a possible later CD. > publishers will listen. It could be marketed as an educational disk > (education is the second biggest market for CD's, after porno). Now that's a market sector where I can't really see any advantage for a CD over a video - or are powerful index and query systems useful there too ("Find me all scenes with chocolate sauce where at least 2...")? I guess this better continue by email if at all. > CDROMs can now be mastered for a very low cost about $12.00 dollars For what size production run? > the disk. It take a lot of stuff to fill a 660MB CDROM. Well, if we gather a few hours of video from various events, that would more than do it. Especially if we have it in multiple formats. ------------------------------ From: BEARLEE1@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 07:28:20 -0500 Subject: Another worthless nickel's worth! There has got to be a pun in there somewhere. Took down a digest and read suggestions on Web and/or CD Rom. Wrote a worthless 2 cent reply and as I was posting in a flash session down came another digest full of words of warning about either. Well, there always have to be the sensible one in and amongst the dreamers, but we should always remember that while the sensible ones of us keep the wheels turning, it is the dreamers that smile when we say something can not be done, and then do it! Bless both kinds because that is what keeps the earth in orbit.. It is fun to dream though isn't it. I still hope that if the dreamers keep dreaming there will come realities and that the realities will be worked out with everyone in mind and that the imput will not be too limited in its availablity. I have worked on more than one project to find that I don't have access to it when I'm done. Not fun...... Enough for one nickel Carole ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 08:53:53 -0500 (EST) From: "Hope A. Greenberg" Subject: Re: women and train travel On 30 Mar 1995, Amy Underhill wrote: > A friend of mine would like to research the history of > travelling clothes for women. She is specifically interested in You might wish to take a look at Brooke Kroeger's book: Nellie Bly : daredevil, reporter, feminist Nellie, in an 1890s attempt to beat the record set by that very popular book, traveled around the world in less than 80 days. The suit she wore became as famous as her trip. ----------------- Hope Greenberg Hope.Greenberg@uvm.edu Academic Computing http://moose.uvm.edu/~hag Univ. of Vermont Come visit The Hall's latest addition: Burlington, VT 05405 The Ovid Project ------------------------------ From: "Cindy Abel" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 08:12:30 CDT Subject: historic costume in the movie "Jefferson in Paris" Just caught a promo of the movie "Jefferson in Paris." For all fewllow fans of late 18th c costume, this promises to be a treat for the eyes. A caraco with gilet worn by Greta Scacchi as Maria Cosway was right out of "Revolution in Fashion, 1715-1815" and I spotted several vests on the men as copied from museum examples. From the one minute proma I saw, cut of the costumes appears to be exact and the formal court wigs worn in one scene, appear to be the correct dirty whitish-gray instead of Victorian-interpretation snow white. USA Today panned the movie and Newsweek didn't like it much either, although praising its look. However I plan to see the movie to chech out the accuracy and beauty of the costumes and to see which actors/actresses seem comfortable in costume and which don't at the very least. Cindy Abel Health Sciences Library Creighton University 2500 California Plaza Omaha NE 68178-0400 Phone: 402-280-5144 ------------------------------ From: Gregory Stapleton Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 13:00:06 PST Subject: RE: Lasts Capital Leather and Findings 580 King Street West Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5V 1M3 416-504-8563 Hope this helps, gregory ---------- From: 2Lt Aryeh JS Nusbacher To: Subject: Lasts Date: Thursday, March 30, 1995 4:42PM Lasts can be had from Capitol Leather and Findings in Toronto. The owners are re-enactment types, and they have zillions of lasts in all shapes and sizes. I don't have their address or phone number handy, but I'm sure Directory Assistance in the 416 area will tell you. Kel Rekuta, one of the partners, is also net-connected. He posts occasionally to rec.org.sca. Best of luck, Aryk Nusbacher | Spare me the history lesson ... Post-Graduate War Studies Programme | Just release my ship! Royal Military College of Canada | Kingston, Ontario - Capt J.T. Kirk ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Lasts Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:28:19 -0500 From: Babs Woods Gregory, I should have remembered to list my locale: I'm in Eastern Central Mass., so things in Canada aren't very useful. Does anyone know of any around Acton, Mass.? I refuse to go into town (boston) for anything, as I can't reliably park to take the T anywhere and driving there is a nightmare. Are there any places that might do mail order which handle lasts? How much is too much for a pair of articulated wooden lasts? Are the old beaten up ones more expensive for being older, or less for being used? Does size make a difference in cost? (Boys'/Men's size 4D, Women's is a little harder to pin down.) Anything else I should know? I think I can get leathers easily enough (I hope). -babs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 15:09:56 -0500 From: Pat Seppeler Subject: Shirt Collar Buttons Hi all, I've been a lurker on this list for several months, and I am learning a lot. I don't do re-anactments, but I try to incorporate historical fashions into my everyday wardrobe. Which brings me to my question... I am making a shirt with a removeable collar and cuffs, so I can change collars for different looks. I ordered the collar-button set from Amazon Dry Goods, but it's not what I expected. One button is what I would have thought - a ~1/2 inch diameter disk connected by a short stem to a 1/4" diameter disk. But the other button has a little pointy ball at the end of the stem, instead of a disk. I haven't made any buttonholes in the collar or shirt yet, and I'm wondering what the point (bad pun, I know...) is of the buttons being different. Thanks in advance... Pat Seppeler University at Buffalo ------------------------------ From: RJRowoldt@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 20:44:50 -0500 Subject: Collar Buttons I wear detachable collars, and hence collar buttons, most days. Traditionally, the button with the ball is worn in front (and called the 'front collar stud' as opposed to 'button') because it has to go through four garment layers to keep the collar closed. The button with the short stem goes in back, and is usually referred to as the 'back collar button' (rather than 'stud'.) Go figure! The front collar stud is typically not seen because it is meant to be worn under the knot of the tie--and this system assumes that you always wear a tie in public. The back collar button is shorter and flatter so it doesn't buckle the tie (if wearing a wing collar) or the back of the collar turndown. I have been known to wear the back collar button in the front on days I choose not to wear a tie because it is often the more decorative of the two. (If out dancing in one's tux with a wing collar on, your partner may shift the neckband of your tie on the back of your neck, revealing the back collar button! Foolish one for not choosing a wing collar with a tie loop at center back to hold one's tie in place!) Some people who choose to wear detachable collars on a regular basis will not wear collar studs/buttons, instead sewing two small buttons together much like a cuff link to replace them. Or, even, sewing a small button to the center back of the shirt's neckband to hold the back collar (and, rarer still, doing the same in front.) They do this because they insist the buttons are more comfortable. I like wearing period garments, so I rarely leave a town without looking into any place which may sell them. I now have a collection of different cufflinks, shirt studs, and collar studs, most bought from people who didn't really know what the latter were. Some of my favorite are front collar studs which have a flat, rather than round, head which can be tilted the better to run through the buttonholes on the shirts and collars. It makes getting dressed in this fashion quite quick and easy. And I don't find them very uncomfortable, but, then, I have been wearing detachable collars for long enough to be used to them. I hope, Pat, that this helps--I posted this generally because more people might be interested. -Randy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 19:05:10 -0500 (EST) From: dbrowne Subject: looking for Carolyn Fraser Hi Carolyn, my computer ate your e-mail address, so I'm having to put this out on the net. Your description of weaving cord sounds interesting, but not quite like lucet. In lucet there are only 2 prongs that you wrape around, not four and you tie a knot with each loop that you take off. I know that your in Brisborne but I'll be glad to send you the diagrame if you send me yourr snail mail address. As far as the Rialto goes ther are over 100 messages aday and sometimes as many as a 1000. It is very heavey traffic, I scan through it and read only those that I am interested in. There is some on costuming, mostly people looking for help and most of those are refered here. If your busy I wouldn't rrecomend it. But you can make up your own mind. --Kathy B --Katrinn ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 95 19:08:00 PST From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: Dance workshops and events in San Francisco Bay Area There will be a workshop focusing on the ballroom minuet of the late 18th and very early 19th centuries in Berkeley on May 13, 1995. It will be held from 10:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. at St. John's Presbyterian Church 2727 College Avenue, Room 203 Berkeley, CA The price is $6/person. It is not necessary to bring a partner. However, it would be helpful to bring dance shoes with soft, flexible soles and either no heels or low ones. The workshop is sponsored by the East Bay Vintage Dance Society and will be taught by Allan Terry and Frances Grimble. For further information call 510/223-8233 or 415/566-6259, or send e-mail to aterry@teknowledge.com. The Period Events & Entertainments Recreation Society is holding a Jane Austen Fete and Assembly on May 13. The assembly, which will be held in Kensington, will open with a minuet played by the Divertimento Dance Orchestra. The fete includes a picnic in Berkeley which starts at 1:00; that is soon after the minuet workshop. For more information, call James and Cathleen Myers at 415/593-2940 or send e-mail to loki@netcom.com. The East Bay Vintage Dance Society holds vintage dance classes every Saturday at the same time and location as the minuet workshop. The April classes will focus on 1920s dance including blues, fox-trot, and Charleston. The May and June classes--aside from the minuet worskhop--will focus on Victorian dance including 5/4 waltz, La Hungroise, and galop. The instructors research dances from original sources as well as having studied with a number of instructors. For more information, call 510/223-8233 or 415/566-6259, or send e-mail to aterry@teknowledge.com. Allan Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 95 19:31:32 PST From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: Everyday dress Re Ed's request for books with information on everyday dress and hairstyles: I'm not sure whether this request is for lower class/occupational dress or middle/upper class dress as really worn, as opposed to fashion plates. If the latter, I can recommend several good books of Victorian photos. There is also an enormous book titled _Fashions in Hair: The First Five Thousand Years_, which has many redrawings of period pictures of various types. It is the only book I can think of offhand which has substantial information on men's hair as well as women's. It was written by Richard Corson and published by Peter Owen in London in 1965, but I bought my copy last year. Has anyone suggested putting a book list on the projected Web costuming page? Because many requests and suggestions are for books I think this would be very useful. Would it be acceptable and useful to start with the h-costume FAQ? Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 18:19:00 -0400 From: longwave@mail.north.net (E. Cheung) Subject: Re: Everyday dress I would like to thank everyone for their book suggestions. To clearify a few things, I am interested in the way ordinary people really dressed. For example, we could look at a catalog say from l.l. beans and see how the clothes were designed. But when we meet the people who actually wear the clothes, it may be normal to wear some styles several sizes larger. In the 1960s, some people wore jeans several sizes smaller. For a short time, it was trendy for youths to wear baseball caps with the price sticker attached. I guess I am more interested in how people wear their clothes than how they are designed, although the design is important. Right now, I am limiting my fashion searches to the West. By the way, does anyone know the history of the Bloomer costume of the 1860s? Ed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:14:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Marjory Duehmig Subject: Re: Everyday dress Ed, According to my recollections...did a paper on this in college YEARS ago...Amelia Bloomer, witnessed her sister tumble down the stairs holding her infant in her arms because she couldn't manage in her bulky dress. That's when Amelia began designing turkish trousers for women. They got their name from her later, but I believe her original concept was based on the turkish trouser costume. If I can find my research, I'll dig it out and forward to you... don't think I can, though as it was over 14 years ago, eek! Hope this helps, Marjorie "You do not dismiss a muse at whim"---Nick Bantock Marjorie Duehmig, Associate Professor of Theatre, cfmad@eiu.edu Eastern Illinois University, (217) 581-5958/FAX (217) 581-6027 On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, E. Cheung wrote: > I would like to thank everyone for their book suggestions. To clearify a > few things, I am interested in the way ordinary people really dressed. For > example, we could look at a catalog say from l.l. beans and see how the > clothes were designed. But when we meet the people who actually wear the > clothes, it may be normal to wear some styles several sizes larger. In the > 1960s, some people wore jeans several sizes smaller. For a short time, it > was trendy for youths to wear baseball caps with the price sticker attached. > I guess I am more interested in how people wear their clothes than how they > are designed, although the design is important. Right now, I am limiting my > fashion searches to the West. By the way, does anyone know the history of > the Bloomer costume of the 1860s? > > Ed > ------------------------------ From: Esante1958@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:08:34 -0400 Subject: Lasts My dear knowledgable friends; Please excuse my ignorance, but what are Lasts? I read with interest your postings and try to follow these threads. But I guess I need to go back to the books again. Thank you for sharing, Mary Gobet esante1958@aol.com ------------------------------ End of Volume 273 -----------------------