From: Gretchen Miller Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 13:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 278, 4/13/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 278, April 13, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: Question and answer: Janet Winter/Carolyn Shultz book Differences between costumers and curators ISO: Good costume house for Shakespear costumes Fire retardancy of wool Questions and answers: Removing dye from silk/rayon Keeping dress hems clean in living history costumes Bra history ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:04:28 -0700 From: Alison Kondo Subject: book question Thinking about the Janet Winter/Carolyn Shultz books, I've been seeing blurbs for several years about them putting out a volume of medieval costuming. Is this going to happen? Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 18:36:06 EDT From: (David W. Rickman) Subject: ...no subject... Hello, Regarding Julie Lassiter Cheetham's remarks about her costume collection and how she uses it, I think that I need to repeat once more that the main purpose of my posting was to protest the likening of what the costumers on such films as _Jefferson in Paris_ do to what curators of museum collections do. I also wrote to say that I, personally deplore the use and using up of historic textiles and costumes for such purposes and wish that others wouldn't do it. Although I feel frustrated that simply by owning an object many feel that they have the right to do whatever they wish with it, even destroy it, the fact of the matter is, in the strict sense of the law, the _do_ have their right, and I do not seek to interfere. That's about my last word. Thanks. David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:48:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Tracy Miller Subject: Re: book question On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Alison Kondo wrote: > > Thinking about the Janet Winter/Carolyn Shultz books, > I've been seeing blurbs for several years about them putting > out a volume of medieval costuming. Is this going to happen? > > Alison > Unfortunately, it is unlikely. I grilled Janet Winter's daughter about it a couple of years ago, but she said mom is too busy running Berkeley Games Dist. (or Chaosium, maybe? I can't remember). I really love their books. So much so that I once had a dream that more were released and was so sad upon awakening. Silly but true. Tracy ------------------------------ From: GailErath@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:47:24 -0400 Subject: Shakespeare costumes Hello to all! I've been lurking the last few weeks and am somewhat intimidated at the depth of knowledge displayed on many topics. I am in the process of costuming "Much Ado About Nothing" for a local Open Air Theater group. The setting is wonderful and the production is a traditional one with costumes from the latter part of the 16th century. I've costumed this group's annual Shakespeare production for many years and usually do it all...design, production and dresser! Over the years the company has amassed a sizable inventory of costumes. The last few years I've been rather lazy and have added only about 3-4 new costumes to each show, using inventory to dress many of the actors. This year I need to produce about a dozen or more and find I shall have to rent som e because there is no way I can do so many and keep my day job! Does anyone have any recommendations for a decent costume house? Any other sources of rentals? Thanks so much for your help. Gail ------------------------------ From: RCarnegie@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:12:34 -0400 Subject: Re: #1(2) H-Costume Digest, V... Pam asked Subject: Re: Undying On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Sarah Randles wrote: > The problem: > > I left a cream silk garment in a pile of clothes for handwashing. The pile > somehow got wet, and dye from another non-colour fast garment has migrated > to the silk in blotches, where it appears to be colour-fast. I have tried a > pre-wash stain remover,soap and soaking, but with no success. I will > eventually give bleach a go, but I would like to hear some less drastic > ideas first. Are the commercially available products (the one I can think > of is called Run-Away) bleaches or not? What will they do to silk? > NEVER< never never use regular chlorine bleach on either wool or silk! If you were to soak it overnight, chances are very good you'd come back to a bucket of bleach and residue the next morning. If I have all the terminology correct, (been a long time since my textiles classes), the protein fibers (wool, silk which are chemically similar to the hair on your head) have a very strong dislike of heavy alkalis such as heavy duty soaps and bleach. (This is probably also why cheap shampoos often leave your hair feeling like straw and more expensive ones leave it softer.) Basically, if the alkali solution is strong enough, you can dissolve the fibers. This is why you should use a gentle detergent (such as Woolite or some fine dish soaps) when washing these fibers. If you have a persistant stain, try oxygen bleach. This is what most of the powdered bleaches that advertise "safe for colors" are. Make sure you read the labels on laundry products carefully, as they will tell you what fibers you cannot use them on. Sometimes the only hope for these things is to over dye them a darker color. I've not had a great deal of luck with this sort of stain. -*-*- Beth McMahon, lover of silk and wool ------------------------------ From: DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 10:25:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Undying I have successfully used Rit Dye Remover to remove dyes from silk. I got, for $1/yard, about 20 yards of unevenly dyed (streaky) silk taffeta (a pale purple or dark lavender). I used the Rit Dye Remover (which requires steeping on the stove in a stainless steel or enamel pot), which removed all the dye and left the fabric a uniform off-white. It did not damage the silk at all (I washed it afterwards in a washing machine, and left it to air dry), though it was somewhat stiffer afterwards. I've since purchased a chemical which can be added to the wash which will re-soften silks that have been dyed, giving them back the original soft hand. The thing to remember about silk is that it IS NOT a fragile fiber, and hot water and soap will not hurt it (just think of what gets done to it in the dyeing process), but that bright colors DO run and fade, so wash them in COLD water for the color's sake. And NEVER wash bright colored shot silk -- it will no longer be shot, but sort of mottled (both bright colors will run, making very unappealing fabric). Bright shot silks should be dry cleaned. Never use bleach on wool or silk -- it damages protein fibers (but is OK for cellulose, that is, plant fibers like cotton and linen). If you don't mind losing the ivory color of the fabric, use dye remover. You can always re-dye it ivory (or some other color) later. If you want to re-dye it, I recommend Procion chemical-reactive dyes. They give excellent colors on silk, and are PERMANENT. Do not waste your time with Rit dyes -- they are fugitive and streaky. Hope this helps. Denise Zaccagnino know as Lady Deonora Ridenow in the SCA ------------------------------ From: PSW@cba-gsb-dean.tamu.edu Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:04:46 CST6CDT Subject: Silk re-softened Lady Deonora Ridenow! What is the chemicl you mentioned in your undyeing post that will re-soften silks? Pam Wiley ------------------------------ From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 10:42:24 EST Subject: Re[2]: #1(2) H-Costume Digest, V... For Ron and Pam, asking about fire retardant properties of natural fabrics. Natural fibers tend to give you warning by smoking or smoldering before bursting into flame.And as Ron said, wool tends to smolder and frequently go out. Anyone who has shot black powder can point out tiny burn holes in their clothes. But that's all they are -- tiny burn holes. Artificial fibers tend to *melt* and stick to your skin in the process, causing nasty burns. And frankly, I'd rather have my clothes burn than me. Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Undying Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 11:34:22 -0400 From: Elizabeth Lear Okay, related question - what about the exact same problem of spots of color on rayon? My husband ruined a blouse of mine after I wore it once, and I've been saving it in the hopes that I could recover it somehow. As for the Russian costuming bibliography, I'm working on it! I didn't think I had so many books. :) ...eliz ------------------------------ From: Razmus the Innocent Subject: Re: book question Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Tracy Miller said: > > On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Alison Kondo wrote: > > > Thinking about the Janet Winter/Carolyn Shultz books, > > I've been seeing blurbs for several years about them putting > > out a volume of medieval costuming. Is this going to happen? > > Unfortunately, it is unlikely. I grilled Janet Winter's daughter about it a > couple of years ago, but she said mom is too busy running Berkeley Games Dist. > (or Chaosium, maybe? I can't remember). > > I really love their books. So much so that I once had a dream that > more were released and was so sad upon awakening. Silly but true. *grumble.grumble* I bought the Elizabethean Costuming book two or three months ago, and it came with a flyer which said there were more books in the works (including the multiple volumes of Medieval Costuming). *heavy.sigh* If they decided a couple years ago to discontinue the plans, I wish they would not get my hopes up... -- Razmus the [Innocent | Pure] of Norwode AKA: Rich Weissler [azrael@access.digex.com] "Victim of a Random Shooting on the Infobahn." Ethernet (n): something used to catch the etherbunny ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:09:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Lori Kishimoto Subject: Bleach, Silk, and "soft soaps" On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Elizabeth McMahon wrote: > NEVER< never never use regular chlorine bleach on either wool or silk! > > If I have all the terminology correct, (been a long time since my textiles > classes), the protein fibers (wool, silk which are chemically similar to > the hair on your head) have a very strong dislike of heavy alkalis such as > heavy duty soaps and bleach. This is why you should use a gentle > detergent (such as Woolite or some fine dish soaps) when washing these > fibers. Actually, I've heard that you should *never* use Woolite on silks either. I read an article recently, written by a belly dancer on the "care and feeding of silks". Professional performers spend large amounts of money on their costumes and the smart ones take good care of their investments. Even some of us amateurs know how much fabric costs. In any case, in the article, she suggested using a product called "Orvis". It's the stuff they use to clean cows' udders before milking. Supposedly, this is a *very* gentle, mild cleaner, pH balanced, and perfect for silk. I don't have the exact "recipe" on hand, but I can look it up if you like. The article also recommends Ivory Snow, and (strangely enough) Lemon Joy. Lori Olympia, Washington ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:29:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Gwyndlyn J Ferguson Subject: Re: Undying On Thu, 6 Apr 1995 DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu wrote: > I have successfully used Rit Dye Remover to remove dyes from silk. I > I've since purchased a chemical which can be added to the wash which will > re-soften silks that have been dyed, giving them back the original soft > hand. Please, what is this chemical, and where might I find it? > > If you want to re-dye it, I recommend Procion chemical-reactive dyes. > They give excellent colors on silk, and are PERMANENT. Do not waste your > time with Rit dyes -- they are fugitive and streaky. > This is very helpful to me, thank you. I have a silvery-grey silk blouse which had the misfortune to be hung in a closet which also held a leaky bottle of tile cleaner. The collar and one shoulder have bleached to a slightly off white ringed in a darker grey. I purchased RIT color remover, but I haven't used it yet, I'm glad to know that it works. I have had very little experience with fabric dyes outside of RIT, which does fade and is streaky. Where can I get these Procion dyes, and are they dangerous? gf *Gwyn Ferguson***Western Illinois University *SCA: Lady Gwyndlyn Caer Vyrddin***Lochmorrow-Midrealm *Internet: mugjf@bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:31:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Astrida E B Schaeffer Subject: costuming for a museum Greetings, I have a question I'm hoping someone out there can answer, or at least offer some advice on. I'm making two 1870's gowns out of Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 2 for Strawbery Banke museum in Portsmouth, NH and I've been asked to come up with a way to keep the hems as clean as possible. Basically, the museum can't afford to have the dresses cleaned often and they're going to be worn both inside a historic house and outside in a garden. Both dresses touch the ground and have slight trains. I've been trying to come up with some sort of easily-removable lining for the hems, something that can be pulled off and tossed into a washing machine and re-attached without great fuss. I don't want it to be visible on the exterior of the dresses, of course. But I'm afraid that if I have the false lining buttoned, hooked, or snapped into place it will actually gap along the hem and snag on things and generally look horrible. I'm prepared to baste it in, but I won't be the one having to remove and replace it every time it needs washed--I'm just a volunteer doing this in my spare time (HAH!!) and someone on staff (who won't necessarily be handy with a needle) will be doing the maintenance. Any ideas? Help!! Astrida ************************************************************** Astrida Schaeffer "All life on Earth is a fairy tale in which outlandish creatures pursue impossible lives" - Rutherford Platt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:32:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Tracy Miller Subject: Re: book question On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Razmus the Innocent replied to my posting: " Unfortunately, it is unlikely. I grilled Janet Winter's daughter about it a couple of years ago, but she said mom is too busy running Berkeley Games Dist. > > (or Chaosium, maybe? I can't remember)." > *grumble.grumble* I bought the Elizabethean Costuming book two or > three months ago, and it came with a flyer which said there were more > books in the works (including the multiple volumes of Medieval > Costuming). *heavy.sigh* If they decided a couple years ago to > discontinue the plans, I wish they would not get my hopes up... > I bought my copy maybe five years ago and asked Branwyn (Janet's daughter) about three or four years ago. (I guess that's more than "a couple of years", huh?) Maybe things have changed. Does your flyer give a date or anything? We could all cross our fingers... Hoping and wishing, Tracy ------------------------------ From: Razmus the Innocent Subject: Re: book question Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Tracy Miller said: > > On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Razmus the Innocent replied to my posting: > > I bought my copy maybe five years ago and asked Branwyn (Janet's > daughter) about three or four years ago. (I guess that's more than "a > couple of years", huh?) Maybe things have changed. Does your flyer give a > date or anything? We could all cross our fingers... I don't have the flyer in front of me (and really doubt I could be able to find it -if it fell into my fabric pile, it will never be seen by man again...) but I do remember the flyer mentioning that the book on Edwardian Costuming would come out first. And either the Victorian or Elizabethan book (or both) would be rewritten. > > Hoping and wishing, > > Tracy *grin* I'll drink to that... -- Razmus the [Innocent | Pure] of Norwode AKA: Rich Weissler [azrael@access.digex.com] "Victim of a Random Shooting on the Infobahn." Ethernet (n): something used to catch the etherbunny ------------------------------ From: 2Lt Aryeh JS Nusbacher Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 268, 4/3/95 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 14:13:09 EDT > Her design was then quickly pattented by Warner Brothers (I've already > submittted the patent search), yes the one and only movie company. I think we're actually talking about two different sets of Warner Brothers; though they were certainly both called the Warner Brothers. > And don't forget not to use an acetone-based nail-polish remover > anywhere near an acetate garment. One spill and you've got instant air > conditioning! (And you can almost guarantee it'll be in the middle of > the front, where there's no easy way to hide it either!) I dream of such an excuse for patching! Aryk Nusbacher | Spare me the history lesson ... Post-Graduate War Studies Programme | Just release my ship! Royal Military College of Canada | Kingston, Ontario - Capt J.T. Kirk ------------------------------ From: DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 14:13:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Undyeing & silk softening The chemical for re-softening dyed silks is Milsoft NB. It's a professional textile softener, a highly concentrated liquid. To use, after dyeing, washing and rising, add 1/4 c. to a washing machine load (or 1 tsp. per gallon if doing by hand), wash for 10 minutes in the hottest water appropriate, and rinse in warm water. I got mine from Dharma Trading Co., Box 150916, San Rafael, CA 94915, (800) 542-5227. It was $4.95 for a quart (plus shipping). They also sell Procion dyes and all the chemicals that go with them, as well as other dyes for dyeing cotton, wool, silk, linen, rayon & most synthetics. They also carry a line of undyed fabrics (mostly cottons and silks, but some linens, rayons and synthetics), as well as pre-made clothing items ready for embellishment or dyeing. Call for a free catalog. I've found the Dharma people very helpful on the phone (I told them what I wanted to do, and they gave advice), and their service is prompt. Their catalog is very informative (if you've ever wanted to dye, silk paint, marble, batik, tye-dye, or fabric paint, get their catalog first), and many times you questions will be answered in the catalog. Most of the same stuff is available from Rupert, Spider & Gibbon (I don't have their catalog here, so I'll post their info later). Their service is also good, and their prices on fabrics by-the-yard are cheaper. The Dharma catalog states that the Procion dyes work on rayon (viscose rayon -- there are other types, and I'm not exactly certain what the difference is), but does not say anything about their dye remover (which is chemically the same as Rit, but more concentrated). I'd suggest calling them for advice before I put a blouse I loved into a vat of dye remover. A word of warning: If you are particularly sensitive to chemicals (if you react badly to household cleaning products, etc.), I DO NOT recommend dyeing at home. It's messy, and the many (some very nasty) chemicals necessary for good results are bad for your skin, eyes, and lungs. Always wear heavy rubber gloves, work in a well ventilated area, use only non-reactive metal tools (stainless steel or enamel -- NEVER aluminum, copper, or cast iron), and be VERY CAREFUL not to spill anything on rugs, counters, porcelin fixtures, floors, or what you're wearing (since the stains will probably NEVER come out). {This safety caution brought to you by Harvard University's Department of Environmental Health & Safety...} Hope this helps. Denise Zaccagnino known as Lady Deonora Ridenow in the SCA ------------------------------ End of Volume 278 -----------------------