From: Gretchen Miller Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 17:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 289, 5/2/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 289, May 2, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: Questions and answers: J Peterman and Co Sources for wigs Cape lining Cotton and word evolution Products for undying fabric Subscription info for QUILTNET Breast-binding address and discussion ISO: Info on making bias cut hose Chain mail and corsets Chinese cotton ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cpecourt@mhv.net Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Experience w/J. Peterman? Hello What exactly do they offer? From what time period? Chantal ------------------------------ From: TrystBass@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:00:22 -0400 Subject: Re: 18th century wigs Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) asked: >Does anyone know of any reasonably priced sources for >18th century female wigs? Oh yes! THE best source of inexpensive, fun, & historical wigs: Lacy Costume Wig 505 Eighth Ave, 11th Floor New York, NY 10018 (212) 695-1996 (800) 562-9911 fax: (212) 695-3860 They cater to theatrical rental shops & prices seem to be wholesale (but does not require a resale license). Catalog is free for the asking. Catalog says that all orders are shipped COD, _but_ if you call them & say what items you're ordering, they'll tell you how much to add for shipping. Then you can write a personal check (which they _will_ accept). They carry four styles of tall women's 18th c. powdered wigs, seven men's styles, & a bunch of other styles that will work w/this period as well (check out the "Dame Edna" style-- very Amadeus in violet!). @->->-- Trystan L. Bass --<-<-@ TrystBass@aol.com . . . . . Life is short and love is always over in the morning . . . . . ------------------------------ Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 284, 4/20/95 From: charlie.cain@twisted.com (Charlie Cain) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:44:36 -1000 "Gail DeCamp" writes > 3). Should I attach the bottom of the lining to the bottom of the > cape, or allow both layers to hang freely? Finally, one *I* can answer. If you wish the bottom to drape properly then allow both layers to hang free. ~~~ Blue Wave/RA v2.12 Charlie Cain charlie.cain@twisted.com The Twisted Pair! (915)949-0721 West Texas Online Communications San Angelo, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 00:23:22 +0800 From: writan@iinet.com.au (Writan Consulting) Subject: RE: Cotton again again .. At 02:40 PM 19/4/95 TZ, Edward Wright wrote: >| BTW, Shakespeare is such a good poet he is an unreliable guide as to how >| people spoke or used the language. He invented a remarkable number of >| terms > >So did many others. The numer of words in the English language >increased greatly during this period. Shakespeare is responsible for >many of them, but by no means all. The silly notion that something >"isn't a word" unless it's in the dictionary did not exist at this >time. If someone lacked a word for something, he was more likely to >make one up than consult a dictionary (which most people did not own). It's very hard to own anything that does not exist. Samuel Johnson wrote the first English dictionary (A Dictionary of the English Language, April 1755), and he was born a century after whoever was Shakespeare probably died (and we're *not*going into *that* here). How many of your other statements are asumptions? Look, I have flannelette pyjamas made out of cotton, my husband washes his face with a flannel made out of cotton towelling whereas I call it a facewasher. My linen cupboard has barely a trace of flax in it, and my local wool shop sells knitting yarns made out of a variety of fibres. I buy reels of cotton that are 100% polyester, and a shop assistant the other day told a customer that Ramie is Linen. In 400 years, how can any historian be certain what any one person meant, when it isn't even clear now? Haven't you cottoned on yet that we've had enough of this thread? ;) /anne... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:08:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Deborah Tarsiewicz - 3528981 Subject: Re: Experience w/J. Peterman? On Thu, 20 Apr 1995 KTRuby@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone had experience with this company, and if so, > was the quality worth the seemingly high prices? How was the service? > > Kathleen in California > > Greetings, I purchased a denim jacket from the J. Peterman catalogue many moons ago. Granted it was not as exciting an article of clothing as the others they carry but I think I can speak to the quality and service. I was impressed with the jacket's construction. It was made of a good quality denim and the seams were flawless (straightly sewn and no loose threads). I have the jacket still and it has weathered well through years of use and washings. I was also pleased with the service. The jacket arrived promptly and with a enclosed assurance that I could return the jacket at any time for any reason for a cheerful refund. In brief, I found my experience with the J. Peterman Company a pleasant one. I will say though that I am often astounded by the prices of some items but I do feel that most are more than reasonable. Hope this is helpful. Sincerely Deborah Tarsiewicz Riverside, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:03:54 -0700 From: Chris Laning Subject: Undyeing (response to old posts) To-hist@ Saturday, April 22, 1995 The discussion on QUILTNET lately (where different colored fabrics are often found in close proximity ) has been full of two, relatively new, products which seem to be acquiring a good reputation for getting people out of jams where something ran color onto something else. *Synthrapol* is a chemical treatment for *removing* excess dye that ran onto some fabric where it wasn't supposed to be. I would guess that this *might* be the same stuff being sold in small packets under various labels (Rit?) for removing "runs" of color from clothing. (Note: a *different* chemical, sodium thiosulfate, is sold by Rit and Dylon as a color *remover* -- a separate thing, though sometimes this is also suggested for removing color "runs"). Synthrapol is a liquid and is much cheaper bought under its own name. *Retayne* is a chemical treatment that is supposed to *fix* color so that it won't wash out. I would not be surprised to hear that this is also being sold as a brand-name product by Rit and others; in fact, I think I may have bought some. Again, this is a liquid and is much cheaper bought under its own name. (Quilters, of course, ask why the heck cloth manufacturers don't treat cloth like this *before* they sell it. I guess it's too expensive or something.) Therefore, for a project that has "run," the treatment is to wash it first with Synthrapol to remove the "run," then (if it contains colored components) with Retayne so it won't do it again. Lately people have noted that while both these products recommend washing in *hot* water, they personally seem to have achieved good results with warm water, sometimes by increasing the amount of chemical. Also well known to quilters is *Orvus soap*, a very mild paste soap *without* lots of extra chemicals and stuff (it's pure sodium lauryl sulfate). This is also available through quilting suppliers or (get this!) at farm supply stores, where it's sold in bulk for shampooing horses - - foals, for instance, who have very sensitive skin - - and the fleeces of show lambs and sheep. Many quilters use it for general laundry, hair washing, et cetera. (Note: do NOT confuse this product with *Corvus*, also a horse product, but with lots of ingredients you don't want to treat your cloth with.) All of these products are used just a tablespoon or two at a time for human- sized loads of laundry. One source (usual disclaimers, I have no connection with this company) is Pine Tree Quiltworks, PO Box 216, Cape Cottage Branch, Cape Elizabeth, Maine 04107; phone (207)799-7357; fax (207)799- 3525. They have Synthrapol, 16 oz for $3.20; Retayne, 16 oz for $4.20, and Orvus soap, 8 oz for $3.16, all plus shipping (which is $3.99 for orders under $25). I'm told an even cheaper size for Orvus is a 7.5-lb jar for around $16 - - available at some pet supply stores, even some Wal-Marts. ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ P.S. In answer to the inevitable question(!), QUILTNET is a mailing list on all quilt-related topics, with 1,000 subscribers and growing, and currently averaging 15 to 30 messages per day. To subscribe, send a message to the address LISTSERV@UKCC.UKY.EDU with a BLANK subject line. The body of the message should read SUBSCRIBE QUILTNET If you have any problems, the sysop can be reached at: OPSTEVE@UKCC.UKY.EDU ------------------------------ Date: 23 Apr 95 12:07:25 EDT From: Dee Wilson <100545.3105@compuserve.com> Subject: Copy of: Breast binding I apologise... I omitted my internet address from this note when I posted it last week. I am ....Dee Wilson 100545.3105@compuserve.com ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- >From: Dee Wilson, 100545,3105 >TO: h cost posting, internet:h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu >DATE: 20/04/1995 21:42 RE: Copy of: Breast binding My topic of research is the history of social norms as applied to domestic health and medicine for the period 1750 - 1960. I offer two points for discussion : 1. During my period of study it is the 1920s that made the flat chested look fashionable. There seems to be some disagreement amongst costume references about how common serious breast binding was during this period. Certainly very fashionable women did present a VERY flat front to the world. Doctors in the 1930s wrote about women having inverted nipples and difficulty with breast feeding due to compression 10 years earlier. However, it is very easy to collect material about the unusual. What evidence is there that the average middle class woman was binding in the 1920s for reasons of FASHION? Were there any long term harmful effects ? 2. There is also some evidence - I have some in my own records - of young adolescent girls being bound for reasons of ( I quote) The last comment is from a woman I interviewed who was forced to wear a crepe bandage at the age of 11 for a school Christmas play in the UK in 1950. The other references are 1918 and 1940s. Was this an element of prudery, or was it wanting ot keep girls young, or evidence of a rule bound society ( you may have breasts at 13, not at 11). What are the likely physiological and psychological effects? ( apart from the discomfort !) 3. Are there any other periods 1770 - 1960 where binding was an accepted norm ? I have citations for this and similar references. I welcome the informed comments from members of this fascinating news group Dee ------------------------------ From: MarieD0108@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:52:05 -0400 Subject: Bias cut cloth hose I am working on making 16th century bias cut cloth hose. I am wondering if anyone has ideas or references on how the feet were constructed and attached. I will be wearing these as functional hose for a Renaissance Faire, so I am _very_ concerned about seam placement and blisters! Marie Denikas ------------------------------ From: Tracy023@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 14:01:42 -0400 Subject: Chain Mail & Corsets A few months ago there were questions about making chain mail. Yesterday I met a man at the Southern Calif. Ren. Faire who created his own, full-body suit, without a pattern. He used No. 16 wire which he cut and shaped into individual, interlocking chains. The effect was wonderful. He said the leg coverings, head covering and body suit each had about 17,000 pieces or "links." It took him three years. Also, this was my first Ren. Faire and I am thankful to all of you for the months of discussion on the importance of individually created corsets. Almost immediately, I could tell which gowns had properly fitted undergarmets and which did not. The distinctions in fit were remarkable--and without your professional discussions I would not have known the reasons. Thank you all. Tracy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 15:44:47 -0400 From: longwave@mail.north.net (E. Cheung) Subject: Re: Breast binding Dee Wilson wrote: >My topic of research is the history of social norms as applied to domestic >health and medicine for the period 1750 - 1960. My interest for many years has been social change and one aspect of this is how it affects fashion. In particular, how changes in natural population growth affects fashion. >I offer two points for discussion : > >1. During my period of study it is the 1920s that made the flat chested >look fashionable. Unfortunately, your study covers over 200 years and you seem to end just at 1960, when another period of flat chestedness was coming into fashion. May I suggest that your study of the 1920's and flat chestedness due to breast binding are two seperate, but related issues. In the 1960's, the baby-boomers were just coming of age. Since they were young, it was natural that the breasts were smaller, and since there were so many young, it was natural that small breasts were a fashion trend. Everyone wanted the "Twiggy" look. I have developed statistical evidence that in the 1920's, another baby-boom was coming of age. Ever heard of the young "flapper?" For the same reasons as in the 1960's, the breasts were smaller and they became the fashion trend. This 1920's baby-boom cannot be found in the fertility statistics, which I believe is due to census errors, but there are population statistics pointing this way. If you are interested, I can email the sources to you, which I have used in my book conerning such things. To close off, let me quote a recent article from the New York Times Service reprinted in the Sat. April 8, 1995, Globe and Mail (Canada's national newspaper) entitled, "What they're wearing in the way of breasts this year", by Natalie Angier. She writes: "Not very long ago, the waif was in and breasts were passe. And before that, very big breasts were in; concerns about breasts implants had not yet surfaced, and plastic surgeons were slapping them in women's chests at the rate of tens of thousands a year." "For a long time before that, breasts were not really a fashion issue at all. Models didn't have breasts. They were supposed to be willowy and delicate, to show off the flow of the clothes." "Now, nearly all models somehow manage to defy physiology and have plump breasts on slender bodies, the contrast between bust and waist made more extreme through the use of corsettes, bustiers, and the Wonderbra and its many knockoffs (or knockons)." "Toward the end of the 16th century, says author Anne Hollander, a thick waist and tiny breasts were deemed ideal, and the flappers of the twenties bound their busts into androgynous billboards of modernity and liberation." ... etc. Edward /************************************************************************/ /* /\/\/\ The Longwave and Social Cycles Resource Centre /\/\/\ */ /* telnet: torfree.net * login: guest * at the prompt type: go longwave */ /* /\/\/\/\/\/\ email: longwave@mail.north.net /\/\/\/\/\/\ */ /************************************************************************/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:30:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Bias cut cloth hose On Sun, 23 Apr 1995 MarieD0108@aol.com wrote: > I am working on making 16th century bias cut cloth hose. I am wondering if > anyone has ideas or references on how the feet were constructed and attached. > > I will be wearing these as functional hose for a Renaissance Faire, so I am > _very_ concerned about seam placement and blisters! Run, do not walk, to the nearest copy of "Textiles and Clothing" from the Museum of London. They have excellant details of a couple of different foot constructions for late-medieval/early-Renaissance hose. I've used the cut where the foot-piece looks like a half-oval (there's no point in trying to describe it more accurately here -- look at the book) and even though there are seams running under the sole, I've never had any problems with blisters. (I've made the design up in both linen and wool -- works well either way.) Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 14:19:58 -0700 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Chinese Cotton A lot of the references I've seen for cotton in Chinese clothing were from the southern part of the country & I think most of them were late 19th-early 20th C. A lot of earlier reference for clothing form (oops, from, not form) Southern China listed bast fibres like hemp, etc, as being used; a lot by the working people who might be prohibited from some lightweight silks by sumptuary laws. I can look up the specific references again if you're interested. Tibet had trade routes with India from at least the 7th century & cottons & Indian silks turn up there... New Wrold really isn't my area of interest, but I do recall reading about cotton in early Peruvian clothing...I think this was the area that cultivated the "mutant" cotton which has slight natural tints of blues, green, & browns which has recently become fashionable in "ecological" clothing in the US. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:56:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Melanie Jo Schuessler Subject: Re: Bias cut cloth hose On Sun, 23 Apr 1995 MarieD0108@aol.com wrote: > I am working on making 16th century bias cut cloth hose. I am wondering if > anyone has ideas or references on how the feet were constructed and attached. There was a rather lengthy discussion on this last year, but I'm not sure if our archives were yet in place then. I think I saved most of the thread, so if the archives don't go back that far, let me know. Melanie mjs@owlnet.rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 95 18:41:24 PDT From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: Wigs and hairpieces I've posted this address before, but. . .My favorite source for wigs and hairpieces is: His Lady and the Soldier Sutlery 851 Kaypat Drive Hope, MI 48628 Cellular phone 517/751-6804 Illustrated catalog, $2 They have two men's colonial wigs, one woman's colonial, and several women's wigs in various lengths and degrees of curl that can be styled in a variety of ways. Also several Victorian hairpieces, including sausage curls for the back of the head, for the sides (this style is new, not in the catalog, but I bought it a few weeks ago), and cascading curls that can be put in a snood. Also two lengths of braids. What I like about their hairpieces is that, unlike some from theatrical suppliers, they look like natural hair close up. They are available in many colors and the owners will take a good deal of trouble to match them to your natural hair. The three prestyled colonial wigs seem to be available only in white, black, dark brown, and in one case gray. The unstyled wigs are available in more colors. His Lady and the Soldier also sells hairpins, snoods, and so on; some simple accessories--and realistic looking severed limbs. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ From: DGC3%Rates%FAR@bangate.pge.com Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 9:52:00 PDT Subject: re: J. Peterman Our family has ordered quite a bit from J. Peterman. Everything is illustrated, not photographed, and accompanied by delightful fictionalized descriptions of the purported history of the object. Their service is prompt and cheerful; the quality of the goods is excellent, and appropriate to the prices. They will tell you on the phone if sizes are running a bit off in what you are ordering. They offer clothing for men and women and various artifacts. The clothing is late Victorian or early 20th century in inspiration. It won't fool the vintage collectors or the real costumers, but you will "tone in" with people who are. For example, at the "Picnic on the Nile" event on Saturday, we were doing 1920s. Someone asked if we were outfitted by Peterman. I said no, thinking they meant the picnic hamper (which was vintage) but later realized that James' white linen suit, Max's navy blazer, and the cloche hat I had lent Mara were all from Peterman. Danine Cozzens ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Danine Cozzens Internet: dgc3@pge.com Pacific Gas and Electric Company San Francisco, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------[Reply - Original Message]---------------------- Sent by:cpecourt@mhv.net Hello What exactly do they offer? From what time period? Chantal ===================================================================== ------------------------------ End of Volume 289 -----------------------