From: "Philip Edward Cutone, III" Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 16:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 303, 5/12/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 303, May 12, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Please note that I am not the usual maintainer. If there is a problem with the digest please let me know (and forgive a few blunders.... :) this digest covers all messages past noon May 5, but before may 6, not appearing in previous digests. There were some problems at first, but I believe I've ironed them out. This entire digest is on the rosary thread. that day needed to be split... and well the rosary was about half! hope this is convenient. Enjoy! Filip ------------------------------ Topics: Rosaries ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 08:23:58 -0600 (CST) From: BJHILL@STTHOMAS.EDU Subject: Rosaries Let me first start of by saying that I am Catholic, and I work at a Catholic University, and since this subject has raised a lot of speculation on the rosary et al. My impression from childhood and continueing with discussions with pastors, priests and Nuns leads me to believe the following. If the chacter is part of a religious order, and also a midwife then it is ok to hang the rosary over a belt one is wearing around the waist. This makes it handy to repaet the rosary while walking or in a chapel, etc. If the person is not of a religoius order then I would suggest not wearing it in public as a religious item. This would have the effect of demeaning the value of the cross as a holy item. A history of the Rosary, St. Dominac had a vision from Mary to do this in about 1495. The Pope at the time did not denounce the Rosary, but did not support it either. Popes since this time have supported the Rosary. The Rosary we know today is the same that was around in the 16th Century. With the only difference being a small prayer that was added in 1917. The Rosary was said in the native language of the person reciting it. Only if the person reciting it was raised speaking only latin, would the recitation be conducted in Latin! The recitation of the Rosary is like a mantra, You do not concentrate on the words, but on the mysteries of that set of decades. Recitation of the Rosary: 1. (Start with the Cross) Make the sign of the cross, and recite the Apostle Creed. 2. (1st Bead) Our Father 3. (2nd, 3rd and 4th Bead) 3 Hail Marys, one for each bead. 4. (5th Bead) Glory be to the Father. 5. (Triangle shaped piece) Announce 1st Mystery; Our Father (prayer) 6. (1st set of 10 beads or decades) 10 Hail Marys, one for each bead. 7. (next bead that is by itself) Glory be to the Father. 8. (Next set of 10 beads or Decades) Repeat last three steps. The Rosary is also called the Psalter of Mary, because its 150 Aves correspond to the number of psalms. The Mysteries of the Rosary Joyful Mysteries 1. The Annunciation 2. The Visitation 3. The Nativity 4. The Presentation 5. The finding of Jesus in the Temple These would lead you all around the Rosary for Monday & Thursday. The mysteries refer to Humility, Charity, Poverty, Obedience, and Piety, respectively in that order. Sorrowful Mysteries - Tuesday and Friday 1. The Agony in the Garden - Repentance 2. The Scourging at the Pillar - Purity 3. The Crowning with Thorns - Courage 4. The Carrying of the Cross - Patience 5. The Crucifiction - Self-renounciation Glorious Mysteries - Sundays, Wednesdays and Saturdays 1. The Resurrection - Faith 2. The Ascension - Hope 3. The Descent of the Holy Spirit Upon the Apostles - Love 4. The Assumption - Eternal Happiness 5. The Coronation of Mary - Marian Devotion The days of the week may be a modern invention. The repition of the words leads the reciter to contemplate the mysteries. Like walking and chewing gum. By doing it often enough the words flow and the meaning can then be explored and contemplated on the Mysteries of the Rosary. If you would like I can also post the Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be to the Father and Apostles Creed privately so as not to fill up the space of fellow listmembers who may not be interested. A alternative however to this, is that My wifes Character is VERY Catholic and 3 time a day. The significance I am not sure, but will e-mail you privately, as this is getting outside the charter for this list. Your most humble servant, brian hill, bjhill@stthomas.edu the imbicilent clark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 10:06:01 -0400 From: MLHardy@aol.com Subject: Re: Rosaries Okay, I'm a Ctholic and pray the Rosary. You start at the cross You say the Appostles Creed "I believe in God, the Father Almighty Creator of heaven and earth. All that is seen and unseen........" The prayer is pretty long. Then the single bead is an "Our Father" The next three beads are "Hail Mary's" Then on the chain betwwen you say the "Glory be" Then you start a decade. Single bead - "Our Father" Ten "Hail Mary's" and on the chain 1 "Glory Be" Now each decade is a "Mystery" that is what they are called. There are 15 Mysteries. But usually you only say a set of five at one time. The first set is called the Joyful said Monday& Thursday 1st 10 - The Annunciation 2nd 10 - The Visitation 3rd 10 - Jesus is born 4th 10 - Prsentation at the Temple 5th 10 - Jesus is found in the temple The second set is called the Sorrowful mysteries said on Tuesday & Friday 1st 10 - Agony in the garden 2nd 10 - Jesus is scoruged at the pillar (whipped) 3rd 10 - Jesus is crowned with thorns 4th 10 - Jesus carries the corss 5th 10 - Jesus is crucified The last set is called the Glorious Mysteries said on Wed, Sat. & Sun 1st 10 - Jesus rises from the dead 2nd 10 - Ascention into heaven 3rd 10 - The Holy Spirit decends upon the Appstles 4th 10 - The Assumption of Mary into heaven 5th 10 - Mary crowned Queen of heaven and earth Once you have completed the circle, there is a medal in the middle. Usually a picture of Mary (The prayer this is for) Then you say a prayer called the "Hail Holy Queen' Hope this sets everyone straight. Michelle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 10:06:05 -0400 From: MLHardy@aol.com Subject: Re: Rosaries In reply to the question about the how far back the rosary dates back I did some reading: The devotion itself is not that old. The rosary originated about the year 1208, when Our Lady appeared to Saint Dominic holding a rosary in her hand. According to tradtion she taught him how to say it, and bade him teach it to the world, promising that it would convert sinners and obtain graces for the just. Also your roseary can be made out of anything (it must be blessed before use however) But POV have made then out of rocks, seeds, paper even. A shoelace will work, just tie knots in it. Michelle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 14:40:21 -0400 From: MLHardy@aol.com Subject: Re: Rosaries It was supposed to be POW not POV sorry MIchelle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 12:40:21 -0600 (MDT) From: Peters Kimberley Subject: Re: Rosaries Hi, I just wanted to let people know that other religions also have something like a rosary. The Hindus have what is called a Japa Mala. You do japa by repeating a mantra at each bead. Different sects have different numbers of beads. Malas, like the rosary, are made out of a variety of materials (crystal, amethyst, pearl, etc.) One of the most popular is made out of a rudraksha (sp?) bead, which is a seed. Supposedly, it is supposed to represent the tears of Lord Rudra. If you look at the beads (good ones at least), it looks like there are five different faces on them. The rudraksha mala is supposed to heal and protect you. If you break or lose your mala, it means you have broken some karma, so you should get a new one. You can wear them around your neck, or as a bracelet, or whatever. I thimk muslims also have a mala, too. Anyway, just a bit of trivia from a lurker. Kym Peters ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 16:17:07 -0400 From: Ladyspnr@aol.com Subject: Appologies WOW - ask what seems a simple quick question . . . . I want to offer quick appologies to anyone who is wading through the wealth of information and responses to my inquiry about rosaries. I sure never expected to get the flood of responses I did. Thanks to everyone who sent information to me. If anyone else wants to share further information, please be kind to the others on the list and just send me a private e-mail. Thanks again to all, and appologies to those who didn't want to wade through our enthusiasm. Karri ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 95 14:00:01 PDT From: susanf@EERC.Berkeley.Edu (Susan Fatemi) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 301, 5/10/95 Re: rosaries. I grew up Catholic before Vatican II (in the early sixties) when thewy switched from Latin to the vernacular. The only hymns I know are in Latin, but we always said the rosary in English. I thought we said the Credo on the decorative piece in the middle (after the initial beads) before the decades start. One thng no one mentioned was the Mysteries. When you say the rosary, you are supposed to contemplate one of the sets of "mysteries", one for each of the 5 decades. One set was the incidents surrounding the life of the Virgin Mary or maybe leading up to the Nativity (it's been a looong time) ; one was on the Passion and Death of Christ. Go to one of those church stores that sells rosaries, etc. and get something on the Rosary, or an actual Missal (mass book) Never wear it around your neck--it is unbelievably gauche. However, on a costuming thing, Catholic ladies, esp. middle to upper class, did treat the rosary almost as a pc. of jewelry--also most catholics have several. I still have 3 or 4, because they were given to me on special occasions or by special people (one was said to have been blessed by Pope Pius xii) oops. So they might have different ones to go with different outfits. they were ususally worn looped around the wrist. It looks pious and attractive at the same time. Also, I'm sure there were variations from country to country. have to go susan fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 14:06:32 -0700 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Rosaries Buddhists also have rosaries. I think its supposed to be 108 beads, although I've seen some carried around the wrist which are smaller. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 95 14:49:12 PDT From: susanf@EERC.Berkeley.Edu (Susan Fatemi) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 302, 5/10/95 re: rosaries I agree with Trystan that rosaries can be made out of practically anything. People in religious orders, I believe, are limited to simple wooden beads. I have a very attractive light colour wood strung on knotted cord, like a mini-franciscan rosay. the cross has no corpus on it. I had one of those great glow-in-the dark rosaries, when I was a kid. And we were very devout. I read somewhere that some rosaries literally had the beads made out of tightly compacted rose petals (supposedly this is where the name came from). The rosary is primarily dedicated to Mary. There is also a ritual called a Novena, which entails saying the rosary in a group for nine days running, for some special favour or cause, a sick relative, world peace, etc. The Buddhists had rosaries long before Christianity existed. theirs are 108 beads. Moslems also carry a rather short string of beads--I never figured out what they said, if anything, on them. they are the derivation of "worry beads". I thinkg they are supposed to recite the various names/attributes of God, but mostly they are used as worry beads. Catholic rosaries often come in their own special boxes. My baby one came in a blue cut-glass container with the face of Mary on a silver lid. My "pope" rosary came in a silver colored box made to look like a little book, with a portrait of the pope on it. You may occasionally see rosaries hanging from rear-view mirrors, my family considered this tacky, but with the freeways the way they are, maybe it helps!! Just remember ladies, rosaries are accessories, so if you have an apropriate persona, do what you will! Ora pro nobis Susan Fatemi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 19:25:05 -0400 From: Tracy023@aol.com Subject: Re rosaries I'm not a Catholic either, but if you are re-enacting an English midwife of the late 1700s, it would be unusual for her to be a Catholic. Even though the sanctions against Roman Catholics were more relaxed at the end of the century than at the beginning, religious dissent, either as a Catholic or one of the blossoming number of Protestant sects, still invited harrassment if not persecution. Tracy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 95 08:25:00 PDT From: "Lassman, Linda" Subject: Re: Rosaries One further thing to materials used to make rosaries, I remember reading an article describing making a paste from rose petals (I'm sorry--I don't remember any of the details any more, and threw out the magazine long, long ago), rolling them into beads and, after they were dried thoroughly, stringing them into things like necklaces and rosaries. How period they would be for rosaries in the 1700s, I have no idea (probably not very!), but they'd certainly smell nice when the rosary was said! - Linda Lassman Winnipeg, Manitoba ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 17:16:56 -0700 From: ccary@tiara.wpd.sgi.com (Christina Cary) Subject: Re: Rosary > ------------------------------ > From: Ladyspnr@aol.com > Subject: Rosaries > > The rosary that I have is absolutely beautiful ... > but I want to be sure that I don't insult anyone or commit an offense against > the Church by utilizing it incorrectly. Thank you so much for saying this! I am Catholic, and I just dread hearing non-Catholics talk about Catholicism or any of its aspects, since they typically distort and ridicule it. I really appreciate your saying this! > ------------------------------ > From: jennyb@pdd.3com.com > Subject: Re: Rosaries > > I've never seen anybody outside holy orders wear rosaries at their waist, but > now that you mention it I do recall seeing nums wandering around with them > at the waist. Maybe it's an attempt to avoid the jewellery connotations? In > that case since different orders have different attitudes to worldly > ostentation perhaps some would carry it at the waist & other round the neck? > Anyone know more about the dress codes of religeous orders than me? As far as I know, no one *ever* wears the rosary around their neck. It is an instrument of prayer and not of personal adornment. Even my mother, a long-lapsed Catholic, was appalled when the pop star Madonna came on the scene wearing a rosary around her neck, and made the comment, "I like it. The nude man is sexy." > ------------------------------ > From: John Sek > Subject: Re: Rosaries > The prayer that was said > when you reached the cross was the "Apostles Creed". > > I would suggest however, that you visit a local Catholic Church and get > them to supply you with the history and proper use of the Rosary. I can't > see how the use of the Rosary at re-enactments would offend anyone. Well, what could be offensive is if a non-Catholic used one as a prop, particularly if they pretended to pray. (I would think anyone *pretending* to pray any religion's prayers would be offensive.) Rosaries are very significant to some of us. Please don't use it as a fun toy, like a fake sword or neat-o Viking helmet (with horns!). If you are really Catholic and you are really praying, that's fine, but I don't know why you'd want to do that during a historical re-enactment event. Prayer is supposed to be private, between you and [your] God. I'm not sure why people are supplying the text of the prayers, but I hope it is not so non-Catholics can lend authenticity to their acting when pretending to be religious people. I'm afraid I personally would find that offensive. I'm sure I'll get mail telling me I'm hypersensitive, but oh well, I have to speak up. You can dress up like a monk or nun, including the gear, and comport yourself accordingly, but faking the prayers is a bit much, IMHO. So, would I find it offensive if, say, someone dressed up as a Buddhist monk and pretended to pray Buddhist prayers out loud? Yes, I would think it was inappropriate and possibly insensitive to any sincere Buddhists who might be in attendance, and a bad example in principle. > The > only offence I am aware of is the state of holyness that a rosary has. I > would assume that the rosary was blessed by the church at some point in > time if not repeatedly. I believe once is enough, as with baptism. > Therefore the worst thing that could happen to a > "blessed" object such as your rosary would be to have touch the ground or > to be used in a undignified manner. Anyone seen "The Exorcist"? (Don't!) > Again > the local parish priest is the best source of help here in understanding > what you have and how it should be treated. That is an excellent idea, and I'm sure the priest would appreciate an opportunity to give you accurate info and advice. OK, I'm sure you're all tired of this now. Thanks everyone. Christina ccary@tiara.wpd.sgi.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 95 15:06:42 PDT From: carmen.boyles@prostar.com Subject: Re: Rosaries in reference to what rosaries can be made from, one of the most charming i've seen is the o.d. green rosary issued to my husband by the u.s. army chaplin. it's made of green cord, with macrame knots, so as not to make any noise while being used in the field. melusine ------------------------------ End of Volume 303 -----------------------