From: Gretchen Miller Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 18:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 312, 5/25/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 312, May 25, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: List posting problem corrected Question and answers: Patterns and info on Italian Ren gowns ISO: 1870's Rental Costumes (South Dakota) Source of emery powder Costume offer, 500-1500 Whole Costumer's Catalog info Question: Publishing material from the list Maiming for beauty Question: History of cross-stitch Reasons for covering the hair ISO: Info on regency era men's clothing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 18:34:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Gretchen Miller Subject: Problem with the list found I found a problem that would bounce mail sent to the list. It's been corrected. So, you can once again safely post to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu toodles, gretchen (h-costume list maintainer) ------------------------------ From: ccary@tiara.wpd.sgi.com (Christina Cary) Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 16:10:37 -0700 Subject: Italian Ren. gowns? Hello Costume list: A friend of mine has commissioned me to design and sew her a bridal gown in the style of the Italian renaissance (pre-1500?). I referred to the books I have at home and have come up with a general idea of the styles of that time, but I was hoping to get some more help from the members here. 1. Can you recommend a good reference book with clear illustrations? 2. Are there any patterns or pattern design books that deal with this period? 3. Where would I find paintings (portraits) made in this period? It seems the style was deep, wide necklines or V-necklines, close-fitting bodice with empire waistlines, full pleated or gathered skirts, "Watteau" trains (from the shoulder, or perhaps waistband?), opulent fabrics and rich trims. Sleeves were close-fitting or puffed (often slashed) from the shoulder to elbow, then close-fitting from elbow to wrist. Now I can't recall if it was right before or after this that the style was a close-fitting bodice with the waistline dropped to the hips... Anyway, I would appreciate suggestions on where to turn for design inspiration. She doesn't want a costume that is accurate in every detail, but I would like to create something that is fairly authentic and not anachronistic. Thank you very much! Christina -- First name: Christina Last name: Cary E-mail address: ccary@tiara.wpd.sgi.com ________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 17:10:27 -0800 From: moriarity@agames.com (Patrice Moriarity) Subject: Source for rental costumes, 1876 My mother and father-in-law will be attending a period ball this summer in South Dakota ala 7th Cavalry, (1876) They need to find a source for rental costumes. Does anyone have any ideas? I'd appreciate any info. thanks, Patrice Moriarity =========================== Patrice Moriarity Atari Games Corp. moriarity@agames.com ------------------------------ From: Joaquinaz@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 21:38:09 -0400 Subject: emery source Tell her to check her phone book under "abrasives" in the yellow pages. Many years ago I bought about a pound of emery from Johnson R L Co 100 Woodside Ave West Lawn, PA 19609 Tel. (610)678-8349 But checking my yellow pages, I see the following company which offers a free catalog on request and a Fax #. MDC INDUSTRIES INC COLLINS AND WILLARD STREET PHILADELPHIA, PA FAX# 215-426-8277 TEL: 215 426-5925 Good Luck. I've seen some exquisite antique "Strawberries", but filling a strawberry with emory is about as much fun as filling a new pillow cover with down! Joaquina Joaquinaz@aol.com The following company has a fax number and a catalogue, but I haven't used them ------------------------------ From: MarieD0108@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 21:46:35 -0400 Subject: Re: 500 - 1500 ? Heather: If you are looking for garments in particular, I do have a lovely refernce book (from England!) on Medieval costume, armor, and weapons. I would be more than willing to look up and answer questions, plus send copies of what was interesting. Marie ------------------------------ From: MarieD0108@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 21:48:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Whole Costumer's Catalog I held off posting the address for the Whole Costumer's Catalogue because: A. I wanted to make sure I didn't send it along with many others; B. I was trying to find mine; C. I kind of forgot about this message. The Whole Costumer's Catalogue Box 207, Main Street Beallsville, PA 15313 Cost: $17.95 ($14.95 + $3.00 shipping) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 21:38:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Sue Harke Subject: Re: Problem with the list found On Wed, 24 May 1995, Gretchen Miller wrote: > I found a problem that would bounce mail sent to the list. It's been > corrected. So, you can once again safely post to > h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu > > toodles, gretchen > (h-costume list maintainer) > I'm new to this listserver. I signed up to get some information on this topic to write about in a newsletter (Space Time Continuum, published by Bjo Trimble). This newsletter covers all areas of science fiction/fandom. Anyone want some credit for good information? Sue Harke ------------------------------ From: Kjotvi@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 22:34:52 -0400 Subject: Maiming for beauty Try to find a copy of "The human Face" by John Liggett c1974, Stein and Day, New York. It includes sections on destructive cosmetics, piercing, scarification, and head deformation. I was surprised to learn about the amount of head deformation practiced by the ancient Egyptians. Queen Nefretiti was an example, though he also shows a sculpture of a far more extreme example. As to the story about empire dresses being hosed down, I was allways told that that was a mis-statement: the IDEAL was for a dress to to be of fabric so light that it would hang AS THOUGH it were wet. The intent was to look like an ancient Greek statue. But I find it hard to believe that any but the most foolish would actually wet themselves down. ------------------------------ From: P_SHERYL@KCPL.LIB.MO.US Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 9:23:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: needlwork/renaissance question I have a question that I hope someone on this list can help me with. I want to do some decorative needlwork on my Renaissance Festival costume and I was wondering when cross-stitch first came into use. I am not particularly worried about strict authenticity of my costume since the festival that I attend leans more toward the theatrical side of things rather than the strictly authentic. However, I do like to KNOW when I am being out-of-period if possible. Does anyone know if cross-stitch or anything similar was done in England around 1550? Thanks for the help. Sheryl J. Nance p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us ------------------------------ Subject: Re: 500 - 1500 ? Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 11:42:26 -0400 From: Elizabeth Lear >Dear Eliz, could you spell out some of the 'various reasons' why women in >so many countries have covered their hair? As far as I know, it is usually >connected with the notions of submission and sexual modesty. I feel that's carrying it to an extreme deep-seated origin that I didn't intend. Rather, due to the scope of the request, I was referring to the fact that areas and times differed in hair covering due to marital status, religious standards, spiritual beliefs, superstitions, etc. ...eliz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 95 09:50:03 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: Italian Ren. gowns? :A friend of mine has commissioned me to design and sew her a bridal gown in the :style of the Italian renaissance (pre-1500?). I referred to the books I have at :home and have come up with a general idea of the styles of that time, but I was :hoping to get some more help from the members here. : :1. Can you recommend a good reference book with clear illustrations? Jacqueline Herald's Renaissance Dress in Italy 1400-1500 would be your best bet. Also, art books from that period (Carpaccio, Botticelli, Ghirlandaio, Francesco del Cossa, Pisanello, Piero della Francesca, Mantegna, Gentile Bellini, Crivelli) :2. Are there any patterns or pattern design books that deal with this period? Elizabeth Birbari's Dress in Italian Painting 1460-1500 and Katherine Holkeboer's Patterns for Theatrical Costume (not bad for a "quick and dirty" book) :3. Where would I find paintings (portraits) made in this period? See above artists, but also books on Italian Renaissance Paintings. Oh, I almost forgot that Renaissance portrait book. (Sorry, I don't have time to go look up the author). : :It seems the style was deep, wide necklines or V-necklines, close-fitting :bodice with empire waistlines, full pleated or gathered skirts, "Watteau" :trains (from the shoulder, or perhaps waistband?), opulent fabrics and rich :trims. Sleeves were close-fitting or puffed (often slashed) from the shoulder :to elbow, then close-fitting from elbow to wrist. This all depends on Where (Venice, Florence, Papal states) and when (1450, 1460, 1470, 1490, 1495, 1498). The earlier you go, the more likely you are to find "Watteau" styles (which are actually variations on the European Houppelande and don't have the false inner back of the Watteau styles but depend on a belt to keep the front tight and the back loose). Opulent is the operative word, however. Hope this helps. Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ From: BJHILL@STTHOMAS.EDU Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 13:27:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: Regency Era Costume I was wondering if anybody could help me out, by telling me where I could get an authentic pattern for a regency era shirt, vest, coat and breeches. I have a complete set of these clothes, but am unsure of its accuracy in the style of cut and the material I used. So, the second time around I want to do it right. The working knowledge I had then was not as sound as it is now on this period, but there is still room for improvement. I have read everything I can get my hands on for the period, specifically 1794-1820. So what I need is a good, easy (;-) pattern, colors that were popular to use, (I wish to stay away from green, at 5'6", I don't want to look at me and say "oh look a leprachaun (sp?). Also, if anyone has any suggestions on material I will gladly accept any and all help. brian hill, bjhill@stthomas.edu the imbicilent clark ------------------------------ From: DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 17:00:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: re: Renaissance/needlework Cross-stitch as it is done in the modern world did not exist in the Renaissance. However, many of the precursors to modern cross-stitch DID exist. One of the most commonly seen (and easy-to-do) forms of counted needlework in 16th C. England was BLACKWORK. Blackwork came in two forms. The first, and most commonly seen on historic costumes, was bands worked in double-running stitch (also called Holbein stitch, after the painter who depicted it in clothing so well) done on evenweave linen for shirt/chemise collars, cuffs, and (occasionally) vertical bands. These were worked monochrome (all one color), almost always in black (though a few examples of red and one of a dark blue have survived), sometimes done reversibly (so both sides of a ruffled cuff could be seen -- see the portraits of Jane Seymour and Catherine Howard). The second form of blackwork was an all-over design which covered a large amount of fabric. This was done for under-sleeves and under-skirts (though both usually later than 1550 -- more like 1580-1590), and occasionally for household ornament (there is a famous pillow cover of grapeleaves and grapes). It is done with a heavier or darker outline (sometimes done in long-armed cross stitch or, if in metallic threads, in plaited braid stitch), and utilized blackwork filling stitches to fill the outlines and shade the patterns. The patterns used to fill are all variations on geometric forms, quite simple in-and-of themselves, but extremely time-consuming when doing enough to make a pair of sleeves! In Italy at about this time, ASSISI WORK was done. There are several examples of napkin/handkerchief borders and shirt collars/cuffs done in Assisi work, all of it monochrome. Red seems to have been the most popular color, though dark blue, black, and one piece of dark green (which may, in fact, be a fugitive black) have survived. Embroidery which modern folk see and THINK is cross-stich is usually LONG-ARMED CROSS STITCH. Again, it was usually monochrone, and frequently used in conjunction with holbein stitch and other counted stitches. If you want to work in polychrome, your best bet is some of the late (1590-1620) polychrome crewel jackets, hats, etc. that are often refered to as "Jacobean". These were worked in silk, and occasionally wool, using split, chain, scroll, stem, plaited braid and other crewel stitches. I have a TON of reference material on this subject, and would be more than happy to share patterns and reference materials. Drop me a message saying what you're interested in, and I'll let you know what I have. Just my $.07 worth! Denise Zaccagnino known as Lady Deonora Ridenow in the SCA ------------------------------ From: AmberlyJoy@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 17:30:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Italian Ren. gowns? You can find an Italian Renaissance Gown pattern in the Amazon Drygoods Pattern Catalog. Their address is 2218 East 11th Street Davenport, IA 52803-3760. Ph # 1-800-798-7979 The pattern is put out by Period Patterns and it is #41. The pattern features 7 gowns and is from 1470-1505. It comes in multi-sizes and retailed for $17.95 four years ago. Good Luck! ------------------------------ End of Volume 312 -----------------------