From: Gretchen Miller Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 18:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 320, 6/7/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 320, June 7, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: Oriental Silk Address ISO: Correct clothing for Gertrude in "Hamlet" ISO: Address for "Costume" Book on dress in Holland Wills and registers G-street Covering the hair Address for Italian coat-dress Question: Bill Brown pattern suit Age and appropriateness The term "bum-roll" 1812 War Uniform Costumes in "Dangerous Liasons" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Edward Wright Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 10:53:04 TZ Subject: Oriental Silk In response to numerous requests, I have dug out the address and phone number for this company: Oriental Silk Co. 8377 Beverly Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90048 (213) 651-2323 Here is a portion (actually, less than half) of the price list I picked up back in January: Silk pongee -- 36" width, gingham and prints $6.95/yd Swatches $1 45" width, ecru/off white 7.95/yd Jacquard crepe -- 36", 20 colors 15.95/yd Swatches $1 Chiffon georgette -- 42/44", 30 colors 9.95/yd Swatches $1 China silk -- 45", 50 colors 6.95/yd Swatches $1 Satin stripe chiffon -- 44", over 20 colors 18.95/yd Swatches $1 Palace silk brocade -36", over 50 colors, including many designs of white-on-white 9.95/yd Swatches $1 45", over 20 colors 12.95/yd Tissue tafetta -- 36", over 15 solid colors 16.95/yd Swatches $1 48" 19.95 Silk corduroy -- 33/36", 7 colors 15.95/yd Swatches $0.50 Metallic stripe chiffon--35/36", over 20 colors 18.95/yd Swatches $1 45" 19.95/yd Swatches $1 Satin tapestry -- 30", many designs 12.95/yd Swatches $1 Satin stripe crepe -- 44/45", over 30 solid colors 17.95/yd Swatches $1 Jaquard charmeuse -- 45", 40 colors 18.95/yd Swatches $1 Silk velvet -- 45", 18 colors 19.95/yd Swatches $0.50 Silk cut velvet -- 45", stripes 24.95/yd Swatches $0.50 Pearl crepe jacquard --45" 15.95/yd Swatches $0.50 Silk crepe satin (charmeuse)-45", over 30 colors 17.95/yd Swatches $1 Heavy silk crepe (4 ply)-45", 5 colors 29.95/yd Swatches $1 All of these are 100% silk except the corduroy, which is 76% and 24% cotton, and the velvets, which are silk/rayon blends. If you've ever gone into any large fabric store and tried to imagine what it would be like if all the tacky, plastic tafetta, chiffon, satin, etc. were real silk, you will have some idea what Oriental Silk's selection is like. In addition to silk, they carry some wool and an assortment of imported linen -- Fine Chinese linen -- 33/36", 7 colors $10.95/yd Swatches $1 Heavy Scottish linen -- 54", 9 colors, jacket-weight 16.95/yd Swatches $1 Irish handkerchief linen -- 60", 7 colors 24.95/yd Swatches $1 They also sell Chinese mandarin jackets, which are not on their price sheet. I seem to recall the jackets, which are completely embroidered by hand, selling for around $80 when I was there. (And yes, I do mean that the entire jacket is embroidered.) ------------------------------ Subject: Queen Qertrude of Denmark Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 14:14:17 EDT From: "Thea M. Kaull" Hello and Thanks in advance. I was wondering if anyone could offer me insight into how in the past Queen Gertrude has been clothed for a Renissance style Hamlet by of course W. Shakespeare. As part of my Class on the tradgedies I have been granted permission instead of doing a journal entry I do a few costumes or scene designs for the play we are studying. And this has gone along most wonderful as I can define most of the characters and I believe dress them as should be done with some insight as to the characteristics of the said character. So if anyone and I mean anyone has any insights as to how I should dress Gertrude please send me via email you ideas, thoughts or anything I am at a standstill and must get this done. Thank you again and take care all. --------------------------------------------------------Thea :) bio4tmk@cabell.vcu.edu ay105@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ From: DennetGA@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 15:20:45 -0400 Subject: Re: RE: The magazine Costume,... Addresss? Phone#? I would be very interested in how to contact them. Thank you in advance. Denise Mahaffey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 13:59:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Tracy Miller Subject: Book find Today when I was in the travel section(!) of the ASUC bookstore in Berkeley, CA, I saw a book that 16th c. costumers might find entertaining. There are no pictures of primary sources and I didn't have time to read the text, so I can't give you any insight into it's accuracy, but it's still wonderful, IMO. TITLE: Daily Life in Holland in the Year 1566 AUTHOR: Poortvliet PUB.: Abrams ISBN: 0 8109 3309 8 I forgot to check the pub. date. It's a bit pricey at $39.95 hc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 18:08:07 -0500 (EST) From: dbrowne Subject: Re: The magazine Costume, brocades Regarding wills and other such legal documents (yes, this is a side issue for costuming, but it is related, really :), have you consulted bishop's registers? Most research libraries will have them from this period, and the Newberry certainly does. Some of these documents were actually entered in the rolls in Middle English, or a mix of English and Latin that can be figured out with a dictionary (I recommend Lewis & Short, the "big book"). Back when legal history was my thing, I did a good bit with these. Doug Browne (lurker and historian attached to Kathy Burke/Katrinn) dbrowne@indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 18:14:49 -0500 (EST) From: dbrowne Subject: Re: Re[2]: twill linen and silk velvet Oh please!!! I just got to know, I want to die happy just knowing that when I'm gone my familly will be able to get some on the insurance money.:) Kathy B Katrinn On Thu, 1 Jun 1995 KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM wrote: > I know that G Street Fabrics in Rockville, MD carries both silk velvet and silk > satin (the latter is to die for at about $70/yd!). If you ever want to > fantasize for real, come d own (up?) and feel the stuff. Don't know the price > on the silk velvet but could find out just for grins.;) > > Kathleen > kathleen@anstec.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 18:24:17 -0500 (EST) From: dbrowne Subject: Re: Book I have heard a rumor that "the Herald book" is being re-released. (I don't know how good a rumor it is). I got the one I use through the local libary (Indiana University @ Bloomington) and go into a fit any time that it is recalled. I have a freind who actually picked one up at a used book store recently. (What she doesn't know is that I am going to secretly replace it with Folgers crystals...:). Kathy B Katrinn ------------------------------ From: JFree49925@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 20:54:53 -0400 Subject: Covering the hair. Thought this might be interesting to those who are inquiring about the various reasons women cover their hair. This information is taken from the book, Princess by Jean P. Sasson. In Saudi Arabia, the appearance of the first menses means that it is time to select the first veil and abaaya (a long, black cloak worn over the clothing of Saudi Arabian women). The shopkeeper, Muslim men from India or Pakistan, inquire with ease and respect as to the time the girl-child became a women. Even though the only color for a veil is black, there are many possibilities for fabric selectiona and weight of material. The veil can be of thin material, giving a shadowy glimpse of the forbidden face. A medium-weight fabric is more practical for one can see through the cloth without being daring. If a woman chooses the traditional thick black fabric no one can see her features because the veil will not move even with the strongest of breezes. (This veil can be dangerous at night because it is hard to see out of when dark). In addition to this traditional heavy veil, some of the conservative women wear black gloves and thick black stockings so that no hint of flesh is visible to the world. For women who want to express their individuality they can purchase scarves with jeweled decorations and the movement of trinkets. Expensive eye-catching decorations are often sewn to the sides and back of the abaaya. A child enters the store, but a woman emerges, veiled and on that day she is considered to be at the marriageable age. Her life changes in that split second. With the veil, Arab women become overwhelmingly tantalizing to Arab men. From that day on they are considered a threat and danger to all men until they are safely wed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 1995 20:38:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Mary M Spila Subject: Italian Ren. Dress OK, After about a week I got enough requests to require SASE's. So if you are interested in the instructions for the Italian Coat-Dress, you can send your SASE's to: Mary Spila 375 W. Ninth Str. Apt. C-5-W Cookeville, TN 38501 The instructions take up 5 single sided pages, so a legal size envelope and a single stamp should do it. If anyone from out of the U.S. is interested, get in touch and we can work something out. If someone who gets a copy can put it on a Web site I would be very grateful. Because of the hand drawn diagrams, I can't send the blasted thing e-mail. Mary/Marian mms6824@tntech.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 08:22:54 PDT From: Sue Wall Subject: 1835 Suit I just joined this list. My family and my self do 1820-1840 fur trade re enactments here in Wyoming. I am sewing a suit for my husband using the Bill Brown pattern. Has anyone ever used it? I could use some advice. I have never made anything this ambitious before. I am using a lamb's wool in the national blue color, I had planed on a navy blue cotton material to line it with. The pattern has pieces I have never seen before, neck gussets, should gussets etc. If anyone could recommend a book that might help me with some of the tailoring techniques I would be grateful. Thanks ------------------------------------- Name: Sue Wall E-mail: Sue Wall Date: 06/02/95 Time: 08:22:54 This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 22:04:11 -0700 From: s.nemeth@ix.netcom.com (Stella Nemeth) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 316, 6/2/95 You wrote: > > >These same writers say that a girl's corset should not be high under the >arm either. They do have some regard for the growing girl - I have a >comment from 1881 where they say that 10 year old girls should not wear >wasp waisted corsets. Rather they should wear stays which provide proper >support and shaping. (As if at 10 you need support and shaping!) > >BTW - we still have a similar problem today, my sister in law is >worrying at what age her 13 year old may wear a Wonderbra ! > >Anyway, do let me know if you can help with the under the arms question. I can't help with the "under the arms question", but I do have a question of my own. I'm afraid that the comment about the 13 year old pushed one of my buttons. There is a real difference between what is appropriate for a 10 year old and what is appropriate for a 13 year old. Perhaps I've just been surrounded by early bloomers, but are there really 13 year old girls out there who do NOT wear adult clothes and underclothes? What is so odd about a teenager wearing a bra? Stella (who was as developed as she was ever going to be at age 11, way back in the early 50s.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jun 1995 13:58:49 GMT From: paul@bozzie.demon.co.uk (Paul C. Dickie) Subject: Historical terms (Was: Colonial Lady's Day Dress) In message <950531152221.2ca004df@badorf.fnal.gov> Deb writes: > > So, just make a bunch of every day skirts while you are planning out > your fancy gown. Then, wear them under the gown to provide the fullness. > > Plus, of course, any pocket hoops, full hoops, or bum-roll you choose. Curiosity hath got the better of me... I'm now wondering what the *correct* historical term would be for what we'd now call a "bum-roll"; surely, our ancestors would not have used so _indelicate_ a term? Paul C. Dickie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 09:27:55 -0400 (EDT) From: John Sek Subject: Re: War of 1812 Uniform Pattern On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, Jim O'Connor wrote: > Someone was asking about a pattern for a War of 1812 uniform for Fort Erie > (sorry, I don't have the original posting, my backup mail dissolved into > the luminiferous ether.) > - cut - > However one of the captured British uniforms escaped the band and was > preserved. It is now in the care of the Cape Ann Historical Society in > Gloucester, Massachusetts. It was this uniform that is supposed to be the > source for the patterns. I was the one asking for the 1812 uniform. The story you give is not uncommon since both sides would sieze supplies of material due to shortages mainly caused by the blockade in Europe (Napoleonic War). But I do appreciate the information on Cape Ann Historical Society for which we are going to contact. As for Parks Canada and Past Patterns we can only wait and see. Lots of thanks and best regards, *********************************************************************** John Sek,C.E.T.,C.S.T. jsek@freenet.niagara.com 222 Emerick Avenue telephone: 1-905-871-7449 Fort Erie, ON, CANADA L2A 2W5 fax/modem: 1-905-871-0696 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 95 07:57:07 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: Book find Tracy Miller wrote: :Today when I was in the travel section(!) of the ASUC bookstore in :Berkeley, CA, I saw a book that 16th c. costumers might find :entertaining. There are no pictures of primary sources and I didn't have :time to read the text, so I can't give you any insight into it's :accuracy, but it's still wonderful, IMO. : : TITLE: Daily Life in Holland in the Year 1566 : AUTHOR: Poortvliet : PUB.: Abrams : ISBN: 0 8109 3309 8 : :I forgot to check the pub. date. It's a bit pricey at $39.95 hc. I saw that one recently. It did look like fun. It was evidently written by someone who had inherited a trunk of clothes and other things. The drawings are nice, but remind me more of the illustrations for a children's book. I believe that there is a companion volume for another time. If I recall it was something like "From my Grandfather's Trunk" or somesuch. Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 12:32:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Deb Subject: RE: Historical terms (Was: Colonial Lady's Day Dress) >Curiosity hath got the better of me... > >I'm now wondering what the *correct* historical term would be for what we'd >now call a "bum-roll"; surely, our ancestors would not have used so >_indelicate_ a term? > >Paul C. Dickie Don't be too quick to make that assumption (though I've not studied it alot and will defer to other opinions). The VICTORIANS were extremely concerned with delicacy ... and wouldn't allow even pianos to have legs. The 18th century has quite a lot of bawdy cartoons. For instance, the one about "the tailor cutting a false rump for the wife of xxxxx" (I forget who) - her skirt is lifted above her waist, and the tailor has sculpted, literally, a false set of larger buns out of cork. (Makes me think of the new blue jeans mentioned recently on the news: they "lift and sculpt the buns" like the latest wonder-bra's do for the bust.) We generally tell the public (though I have no ready sources) that a woman was a proper, modest lady so long as she covered her head and her elbows. (For the 18th century). She can show lots of leg (skirts can be mid calf, or hitched up for working) and LOTS of bosom and still be a modest lady. [Some fashion plates show the bosom completely exposed! However, considering how many people actually wear TODAY's haute cousine, I wonder how many women actually copied that fashion ....] However: _was_ there another name for the bum-roll? I don't know if that is a period term or not. Deb Baddorf baddorf@fnal.gov ------------------------------ From: Ladyspnr@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 16:10:51 -0400 Subject: Dangerous Liasions Hi again. Thanks for all the info on my query regarding a colonial lady's day dress. Now for another question to ponder. I was just watching my copy of Dangerous Liasions with Glenn Close. WOW, I want EVERY dress in this movie. Does anyone know where I could (or even if I can) get patterns and/or pictures of these dresses? (especially the ones worn by Michelle Pfieffer and Glenn Close) Also, what kind of material are they made of? I believe I saw some satin, but I'm not sure of the other material. I love the blue jacket Michelle wears in a scene in the garden. I love the print with the blue background and what appears to be almost a silver print. Are the fabrics and dresses correct for the movie's time period? I think they are, but many of you out there are MUCH more knowledgeable than I. I just know that I about died when the ladies in waiting were sewing Glenn Close into her dress in the first few scenes of the movie. Also, where do I get a pattern for that corset and hoops? WOW again. Okay, okay, I've gushed enough. I look forward to any info. Thanks in advance. Karri Riedel aka "Ladyspnr" ------------------------------ From: MarieD0108@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 19:16:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Historical terms (Was: Co... FYI - bumroll = hip bolster. But, bolster sounds like upholstery (and actually is!) and may also be 'politically incorrect' to use. ;-)= Marie ------------------------------ End of Volume 320 -----------------------