From: Gretchen Miller <grm+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu,  8 Jun 1995 15:15:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 322, 6/8/95

The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 322, June 8, 1995

Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message).

Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to
h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu

Enjoy!

------------------------------
Topics:
Question and answer: Period archers' costume
Twill linen and silk velvet
Holland 1600s costume book
Woollens source
Costume reprints?
Indelicate historical terms
Native American dress
V&A museum
Victorian costume question
Paste Buckle shoes
Renaissance needlework on the Web
Question and answer: WWI British uniforms
ISO: Info on making 18th C Frock coat
Shoemaking and leatherwork
Medieval dress question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 09:41:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Kazimierz Samostrelov <cnogy@comp.uark.edu>
Subject: Archer's Clothing

Hi all!

I have been lurking in the shadows for some time now, without meaningful
input, but I now find myself with a query that suits well the combined
expertise of this list.

I am looking for examples, art, patterns, etc... for archer clothing and
accessories for the middle ages.  I am interested in particular in
Crossbowmen outfits.  Even more specific, Genoese or Gascon, 14th - 16th
centuries.  Any help? 

Thanks

]<az

Armor - n.  The kind of clothing worn by a man whose tailor is a blacksmith.
(Ambrose Bierce, 1911)

------------------------------
From: Edward Wright <edwright@microsoft.com>
Date: Mon,  5 Jun 95 10:11:07 TZ
Subject: Re: twill linen and silk velvet

| silk velvet is available at Thai silks.  The background that the threads
| go into is rayon, but the actual (use of word I am unsure is appropriate)
| nap? is 100% silk, many lovely colors, not bad price if you order
| wholesale (15 yards or more) otherwise it is 18-20.00/yard.  Perhaps the
| Los Angeles store Oriental Silks that Edward is so kind to suggest will
| also have something similar.

Yes, this sounds like the same material, as does the silk velvet sold at
G. Street Fabrics.  Oriental Silk sells it retail (one-yard minimum cut)
for $19.95/yard.  They also do wholesale, by the way, so if you qualify,
you can get it cheaper than that.

Also, when you order, ask if there's a costumer's discount. When I was
there, they were giving 10%. This may only apply to professional
costumers, but I'm not sure.

| I am sure if we could only get
| some suggestions from Europe, they might offer these wonderful luxury
| fabrics more readily.    Teresa

Not necessarily.  Most are imported from Asia, and most of the importers
are Asian immigrants.  As far as I know, the only places where you will
find the silk satin tapestry I mentioned are Oriental 
Silk, G. Street Fabric (sometimes), and Chinatown.  (Its primary use
today is in traditional Chinese wedding dresses.)  The US may have an
advantage over China.

You can also order silks directly from Hong Kong.  I've seen ads for a
Hong Kong that offers a mail order and swatching service in Threads and
Sew News, but I've never tried them.

------------------------------
From: Edward Wright <edwright@microsoft.com>
Date: Mon,  5 Jun 95 10:22:26 TZ
Subject: RE: Book find

| Today when I was in the travel section(!) of the ASUC bookstore in
| Berkeley, CA, I saw a book that 16th c. costumers might find
| entertaining.  There are no pictures of primary sources and I didn't have
| time to read the text, so I can't give you any insight into it's
| accuracy, but it's still wonderful, IMO.

I got this book as a present a couple years back.  Unfortunately, the
author doesn't list sources, but I was able to recognize some of the
sources he has used from his paintings.  In those cases, at least, he 
seems to have been pretty accurate.

The author/artist, by the way, is the same one who did the Gnomes book. 
He also has a new book, that I just saw last week, called "The Ice Age."
 Despite the title, the book does include some "flash forwards" to
historic periods, with more gorgeous costume paintings.

 
------------------------------
From: Edward Wright <edwright@microsoft.com>
Date: Mon,  5 Jun 95 10:34:56 TZ
Subject: RE: Regarding woolens for medieval reproductions

| If you are desperate for fine wool & cannot get it where you are I could try
| to find you a shop that will take credit card orders for export. I used to
| know some good suppliers up in Manchester, but do go try a good tailors first
| & see if they can offer advice.

Continental Woolens in Dallas, TX is a suit-manufacturing shop that also
sells yardage to the public.  They have literally hundreds of bolts of
suit wool and wool blends to choose from (in all the usual 
men's suit colors, of course ;-(.  You can find them in the phone book
or get their number from directory assistance.  I'm not sure if they do
mail order, but it wouldn't suprise me.

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:47:38 -0500 (EST)
From: dbrowne <dbrowne@indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: The magazine Costume, bro...

 Do you have reprints of these articles, they sound great!
Kathy B
Katrinn

------------------------------
From: Edward Wright <edwright@microsoft.com>
Date: Mon,  5 Jun 95 10:41:57 TZ
Subject: Re: Historical terms (Was: Colonial Lady's Day Dress)

| > >I'm now wondering what the *correct* historical term would be for 
what we'd
| > >now call a "bum-roll"; surely, our ancestors would not have used so
| > >_indelicate_ a term?

They did sometimes call it a bum roll, although that was a slang term.
The "correct" name was French farthingale.  I'm not sure which was used
more frequently, the slang term or the "correct" one.

As an aside, trunk hose were *never* called "pumpkin hose."  The word
"pumpkin" had not yet entered the English language when people were
wearing padded trunk hose.

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 14:06:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Kazimierz Samostrelov <cnogy@comp.uark.edu>
Subject: Re: Archer's Clothing

I am one of only a handful of experienced builders of historic crossbows
in the U.S.  I have built several hundred bows, but no really authentic
costumes to go with them.  That is the reason for my post.  Though I
have most of the accessories well detailed, I do not have the general
fashion of military archer clothing documented at all.  I loath to use
the drawings, paintings, etc... of sport or tournament archers, and I
refuse to use the art pertaining to noble hunters, as neither of these
would 
even be close to the proper military garb of the Genoese or Gascon
mercinary crossbow forces.  Maybe this is a little too restricted topic
on this list, but I hope someone can help.

Please send the review by private post or even snail-mail at 
Chris Nogy
2007 Dee Ave
Springdale  AR 72762

Thanks

]<az

Armor - n.  The kind of clothing worn by a man whose tailor is a blacksmith.
(Ambrose Bierce, 1911)

------------------------------
From: BJHILL@STTHOMAS.EDU
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 1995 15:50:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Indian dress

Can anyone help me locate drawings, prints, paintings etc. of native
american woodland type of dresses, specifically those that may be either
Ojibwa or Ottawa?

Secondary would be patterns for strap dresses or ribbon dresses.

The time period would be approximately 1780-1810. The person would have
access and money to purchase whatever she wanted, so money was not so
much an issue. I wish it were still the case. :-)

Thanking you all in advance for your assistance.
brian hill     bjhill@stthomas.edu

------------------------------
From: ccary@tiara.wpd.sgi.com (Christina Cary)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 15:53:16 -0700
Subject: COSTUME: V & A Museum

Hi Costumers,

I'm going to the Victoria & Albert Museum (in London, of course!) next
week. Any recommendations? Special exhibits not to be missed? Is the
bookstore good? Comments? Advice?

Bet you're jealous!

Christina

-- 
First name: Christina 
Last name:  Cary
E-mail address: ccary@tiara.wpd.sgi.com 
_______________________________________________________________________

------------------------------
From: Edward Wright <edwright@microsoft.com>
Date: Mon,  5 Jun 95 16:38:38 TZ
Subject: RE: Paste Buckle shoes?

| Paste  = imitation gemstones, most frequently diamonds.   I'm told it
| was a pretty good imitation, better than our "glass" or rhinestone
| imitations today.  Took a jeweler to tell them apart, I believe.
| I don't know if the actual technique for making PASTE still exists
| today?     It could also be colored and would imitate other gems.

On Mission Impossible, they were always stealing jewels and replacing
them with "paste imitations", so I assume they were around in the 1960's.

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 21:06:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: NEURU L - CLASSICAL STUDIES <lneuru@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Victorian Costume

I was recently a listmember but had to sign off because I could'nt
handle the volume of mail from all the lists I *must* be on as well as
the ones I wanted to be on.  But I am hoping you will not mind if I ask
a question, and ask you to reply to me personally.  I would be happy to
collate responses and send them back to you for the list.

A local park is celebrating its 100th birthday in 1996.  We would like
to be able to furnish information on costumes, especially for a fancy
dress ball, but also for casual daywear.  Sources for patterns,
information on materials, books, anything dealing with turn of the
century costume would
be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Lucinda Neuru
lneuru@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca
                             
------------------------------
From: cole joan <jcole@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: needlework/renaissance question (webpage)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 23:08:39 -0500 (CDT)

> >Another possibility on counted thread embroidery for the period:
> 
> >On Compuserve, in the LIVHIST forum, there are about a dozen GIF files
> >of charts done by Timothy J. Mitchell of German 14th and 15th century
> >pieces in the Victoria & Albert museum. 
> 
> I was wondering if you could please give me the hppt address for these files 
> as I would very much like to view them 
> 
Good idea!  I quickly webbed up such a page, which can be found at
http://ux1.cso.uiuc.edu/~jcole/medembro.html

(So far as I know they were not previously to be found on WWW.  To my
knowledge Compuserve's file areas are inaccessible to WWW, as they are
one of the main reasons a person might pay money to access Compuserve.)

Have fun!

Joan Cole

------------------------------
From: PM035@lampeter.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 12:33:02 +0100 (BST)
Subject: WW1

Hi,
Does anyone know where I could get hold of any references that deal with
WW1 British officers uniforms- I can adapt modern uniforms, or WW2, and
get webbing, yet need technical guides to even begin to make a start-
something on the level of B.L.Davis- 
 Thanks,
  N.J.Smith.

------------------------------
From: PM035@lampeter.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 12:37:43 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Frock Coat

I have a friend that is interested in making a Frock Coat- 18th.C. Does
anyone know of any useful references- I can think of 19th.C. mens
fashion magazines and a  few tailors guides but not much else.
  Thanks,
   N.J.Smith.

------------------------------
Date: 06 Jun 1995 08:15:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Library - Vineland Research Station <LIBRARY@ONRSVI.AGR.CA>
Subject: Re: WWI

My husband is having two WWI private uniforms made, one in Canada and
one in Britain. I'll try to remember to ask him for his sources. Perhaps
they would be willing to sell you a pattern.

Sheridan library@onrsvi.agr.ca

------------------------------
From: jennyb@pdd.3com.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 14:04:04 BST
Subject: Medieval Shoes in particular and Medieval Leatherwork in general

If you are interested in Danish finds & can read German, or just cope by
looking at pictures & diagrams there is an excellent book called
something like "Die lederfunde aus dem hafen von haithabu" I can get the
full reference if you're interested.

Also "leather in life art & industry" has pictures of medieval jacks,
horn books etc. I can't recall the author, but can look it up for you.

Primitive shoes, by Margrethe Hald has all sorts of patterns & diagrams
charting the evolution & changing shape of the shoe, as I recall it
stops at early medieval shoes.

The HMSO series has "shoes & pattens" & "knives & scabbards" both of
which you are probably familiar with.

Beyond that I can suggest some papers in archaeological journals with
scabbards & so forth, if you have access to a good library. If you don't
I could possibly get copies made for you if you could send some IRCs to
cover postage, but really you'd be much better off looking in a library
as you'd probably find more articles of interest. Let me know if you
want more details. There's a paper from York that details some of the
finds there, but I can't recall the details offhand, if you're
interested I can look it up at home.

Oh yes, I nearly forgot, I've got some patterns I used when I was
temporarily running a business making replica dark age leatherwork, (I
ran out of grants & used the business to fund the final years of a
degree) I've got plain turn shoe spatterns scaled to various sizes & a
few custom pattterns for
stuff like short boots, a nondescript pouch type pattern that's based on
various attempts at reconstructing pouches like the Sutton Hoo one, (I
never convinced myself I got it right, but lots of other people liked
it). Two years of mass producing leatherwork & I'd done enough to last
me a life
time, so I just do the odd bit for myself & as presents for friends now,
but I've still got a fair amount of patterns & information that I'd be
happy to share if they're any good to you. It may be too early for you
as it's mostly aimed at 10th century.

I keep getting people after shoe patterns & keep snail mailing
photocopies, anybody out there got a scanner they'd be willing to scan
them in with? It would make sense to scan this sort of thing so it could
be distributed by email. I have patterns & diagrams that I own the
copyright on, they are based
on various archaeological finds, but modified to remove effects of wear
on the finds, & scaled to various english shoe sizes. Obviously they're
not as good as having a through understanding of early medieval shoe
construction & custom making your own pattern, but they're enough to
give you a good start, So if anyone out there has a scanner & would be
willing to scan them in I'd be happy to let some early medieval shoe
patterns loose on the net.

I've never been to the Leather Museum in London, I've heard there's one
in Northampton too though.

Whilst we're on the topic of leatherwork, anybody got anty ideas on
early medieval colourants for leather? I know the stuff was coloured,
did it use linseed oil based paints like coloured wood? Or were there
special dyes for leather?

Jennifer

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 08:12 CDT
From: tallison@mcs.com (Tim Allison)
Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 318, 6/5/95

Found this on the Medievial_L list. Can anyone help?
Carol Mitchell
Caroline Richenda

>Date:    Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:30:10 PDT
>From:    Deborah Moors <MOORS@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU>
>Subject: MEDIEVAL DRESS

I'm a fiction writer working on a book set in 13 c. England. I'm not an
academi c, but am very interested in this period and have been
researching for the last  four years social customs and everyday life.
Can someone direct me to a good r eference book on medieval dress? Those
that I've read each have different names  for what I'm assuming to be
the same pieces of clothing. Or, if anyone would c are to answer a few
specific questions about dress, please e-mail me directly a
nd I'll fire away. Any help would be appreciated!

     Deborah Moors

------------------------------ End of Volume 322 -----------------------