From: Gretchen Miller Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 18:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 334, 7/7/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 334, July 7, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: Costume image database Braveheart costumes and makeup Bone needles ISO: Costume museums in Italy Discussion of "Elizabethan Costuming" ISO: Instructions for Elizabethan fan Ride offered to Costume College (CA) Possible source for WWI Soviet uniforms 18th c Dress closures ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 09:25:14 PDT From: susanf@EERC.Berkeley.Edu (Susan Fatemi) I found this posting on the VRA-L Digest - 8 Jun 1995 to 9 Jun 1995. Am re-posting to historic costume without permission . ------------------------------ >"Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 12:26:02 -0500 >From: Virginia Kerr >Subject: Costume Imagebase at Columbia College Library, Chicago This message is cross-posted. Anyone visiting Chicago for ALA is cordially invited to stop by and see the Costume Imagebase at Columbia College Library. Nearly 9000 images recording the broad history of daily dress and fashion have been digitized and are available on the library's internal network. Slides are available to our faculty. Cataloging of the images, using AAT descriptors, is now available on the Worldwide Web. References to original illustration sources will be posted with the catalog entries later this summer. Look for the Costume Imagebase (text, no images currently) at: http://www.colum.edu/costwais.html. Columbia College Library is located at the corner of Harrison Street and Michigan Ave., just one block north of the Hilton Hotel. Call Miranda Howard at (312) 663-1600 x332 or email Virginia Kerr to make an appointment to see the Imagebase operation. Virginia Kerr Costume Imagebase Project Coordinator" ------------------------------ VRA is Visual Resources Association, primarily slide librarians and other keepers of images. ALA is, of course, American Library Assoc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 13:34:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Staff - Michigan Health Promotion Clearinghouse Subject: Re: Types of lacings > > One effect I have found depends on whether I straight or cross-lace. > > Please forgive me, fellow listmembers, but what is the difference between > these two types of lacings. Please email; this is > probably not of interest to many, as I suspect that I am only clueless. Actually, I have my clue-net out hoping to catch the clue on this, too. ;-) Joy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 10:53:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Braveheart On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, Staff - Michigan Health Promotion Clearinghouse wrote: > > I'm curious on what basis you believe this is "correct to a degree". Are > > there historical refernces to Wallace's men painting their faces blue? > > > > Heather Rose Jones > > > No documentation, so I probably shouldn't even fan the fire, but I always > heard, (before this movie came out) That they stripped naked & painted > their whole bodies blue. I may be victim of a legend. "Stripped naked and painted blue" is the popular modern interpretation of some 1st century references to Britons. A bit of a jump to late 13th century Scotland. Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 13:15:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Re: COSTUME: Braveheart Dear Sir: Please forgive the brevity of this statement. I am going on vacation, so will not be able to give documentation or a reasonable reply for two weeks. Anyway, I study sumptuary legislations, English fourteenth century, but have been reading up on my Spanish sumptuary legislation 10-15th century. While I cannot vouchsafe the velvet period grounds, which were generally being produced in Italy, mix of fabrics, for which I have documentation on silk-cotton, silk-linen, linen-wool etc., as well as some documentation stating it was much more common than most believe, I have read nothing making it against the law to mix the grounds, now the statues of the requisits drapers and weavers guilds, per country would have to be checked for accuracy and documenation, but mixing silk and cotton is not necessarily illegal and should not be assumed to be so. Thank you for your time, check out Francis Baldwin, Sumptuary Legislation in Medieval England, Rogors Thorold History of Agricultural Prices in England vol 1-2, and May Lewis Hispanic Textiles 8-15th centuries. Your servant, Teresa P. S. please post the address, name, and or phone number of the shop that has silk on silk velvet, I have only run across silk on rayon backing. Thank you. > the subject of velvet I would like to make one observation. A shop near > where we lived dealt in high end fabrics, one of which was a silk on silk > velvet. I saw the owner unroll a yard or so of fabric, then lay her ring > roughly in the middle. By pinching the cloth between thumb and forefinger > she was able to draw the fabric through the ring with little or no > resistance. Upon personal examination I found it to be far more > "synthetic" in appearance and drape than the lycra on the next table. I > would be interested in knowing what was used for a ground in 13th cent. > velvets, and would be surprised if it was cotton. Most statutes were > concerned with adulteration, and I would speculate that making silk cloth > with a cotton base would fall in that category. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 11:22:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Bone needles On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, Joe Cook wrote: > I am attempting to gather materials for a display of embroidery tools > within historical period. What I would like to get a hold of are > needles that could be considered historically correct such as bone > needles. Any ideas where I could track down such items? One important question is: within _what_ historical period? Metal needles have been available (and preferred) for long enough that bone sewing needles are likely to be found only in museums. That makes your best bet a close examination of museum specimens so that you can make your own. I've made bone needles as an experiment -- The basic shape is fairly easy, but finding a way to bore a small enough eye is the hard part. Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ From: erain@mv.us.adobe.com Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 16:02:20 PST Subject: Costume Museums in Italy Hello, I'm going to Northern Italy this fall (Oh wow!) and the post asking about Costume Museums in Spain recently reminded me that I should ask the same for Italy. I'll be in Milan, Florence and Venice. Anyone have any suggestions for actual costume museums to visit while I'm over there? Obviously I'm going to spend all my time in the Uffizi looking at clothing details in the portraits, but I'd like to see the real thing given a chance. Particularly I'm interested in renaissance & medieval textiles. Thanks for any suggestions, Eden Rain eden.rain@adobe.com Please cc me on replies since I only get the digest sporadically thanks to my weird mail server :-< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 18:46:02 -0500 (EST) From: dbrowne Subject: Re: Elizabethan interests Please be careful of the Winter book, yes it is easy to read and to follow but some of the instructions that are given are for costumes not clothing. There is a difference, I do both: one is for short periods of time on stage where your viewers are a given distance, the other is for living in. Please do not use this for your only documentation, go to her sorces and then to theirs. Katrinn Kathy B On Thu, 29 Jun 1995 Tristeen@aol.com wrote: > Hi!! > My name is Emily Thompson and I have a book that is I think is something to > share. I am a member of the Society for Creative Anachronism. SCA for > short. I have an interest in Elizabethan clothing and recently picked up a > book I thought many of you would like to know about. The book is called: > ELIZABETHAN COSTUEMING FOR THE YEARS 1550-1580 It's by Janet Winter and > Carolyn Savoy. While, unlike many books this one is written plainly and even > humorously in places, I have found it to be very well thought out, researched > and ir is arranged in a somewhat logical order. I've included all of the > important data about this book and I highly reccommend it, it has been an > indespensable companion in my business for over a year now. > > Publisher: Other Times Productions > 361 60th St > Oakland, CA 94618 > (sorry, no phone #) > > ISBN 0-9630220-0-8 > $15.00 > > > Talk to you again later > Tristeen@aol.com > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 18:54:24 -0500 (EST) From: dbrowne Subject: Woad Other than being a beautiful and durable dye there is an unfortunate side effect to using woad on large parts of the body. Unless I am mistaken, it is both halicunigenic and toxic. I have heard that at a recent Pennsic there was the first documentated case of Woad poisening in modern history. What some people won't do in the name of history. Katrinn Kathy B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 18:57:01 -0500 (EST) From: dbrowne Subject: Late 16th cen, fans I am looking for good instructions on constructing a tuft fan. The kind with a solid handle and feathers emerging from it. Any nibbles? How about you Elizabethian folk? Katrinn Kathy B ------------------------------ From: dianeg@orion.csd.sgi.com (Diane Grason) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 17:30:07 -0700 I'm not sure if this is the correct forum for this or not, but.... I'm heading down to Costume College (held in the L.A. area in July) and was wondering if anyone in the S.F. bay area needs a ride. I was going to fly, but the thought of cramming my ball gown, hoop and all, into a suit case made me cringe. Anyway, if any one is interested, please send me email. I have a clean, dependable car, non-smoking, room for (at the most) 2 other people and assorted baggage. Thanks, Diane -- ____________________________ | | | Diane M. Grason | | dianeg@csd.sgi.com | | System Admin, CSD R&D | | (415) 390-1473 | | (415) 254-9279 (pager) | |____________________________| ------------------------------ From: Etienette@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 22:42:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Elizabethan interests Greetings, ELIZABETHIAN COSTUEMING FOR THE YEARS 1550-1580 by Janet Winter and Carolyn Savoy, is a good book to start with, It does have some good ideas on how to construct Elizabethan Costuming. It also has good ideas for constructing the dresses on a budget. I myself used it when I was first introduced to the incredible world of the Elizbethian Era..... The Bible however is a book entitled Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd by Janet Arnold If you are interested in the book I can e-mail you the information for orderingit direct from the publisher. It is expensive ($120-150 depending on the exchange rate) but worth it if you are at all interested in the period. Please contact me if you have any question. Here's to research!! Stephanie Ray-Solum Etienette@aol.com (206)7811-0258 8354 11th Ave NW #2 Seattle, WA 98117 ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 11:28:49 TZ Subject: RE: Elizabethan interests | The book is called: ELIZABETHAN COSTUEMING FOR THE YEARS 1550-1580 | It's by Janet Winter and Carolyn Savoy. While, unlike many books this one is written | plainly and even humorously in places, I have found it to be very well thought out, | researched Hardly. The "Renn Faire Costume Book", as it is commonly called, is a wealth of inaccuracies. For example -- * The books states that Elizabethans used pouches to carry their personal belongings because they did not have pockets. But *every* surviving example of men's Elizabethan costuming that I know of has pockets. (Some of the women's costumes do, also.) If the authors had merely taken the time to look at Elizabethan portraits, they would have seen that the people depicted are not wearing pouches. * The book claims that canions were another layer of clothing worn beneath the trunk hose. In fact, cannions were extensions attached to the bottom of the trunk hose (i.e., they were part of the trunk hose). There's even a pattern for this bogus article of article! * The book claims that Elizabethans called their trunk hose "pumpkin hose" because of their resemblence to the squash-like vegetable. But if you check the OED, you will find that the word "pumpkin" did not enter the English language until long after this period. * The book claims that, to obtain a peascod shape, a doublet must open in the back instead of the front. Funny, my peascod doublet opens in the front. As does every surviving example of an Elizabethan peascod doublet that I know of. In fact, the only source that Winters and Savoy appear to have used for their costume research is the California Renn Faire. This book is probably responsible for at least half of the mistaken costume lore in the SCA. ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 11:32:21 TZ Subject: Re: WWII Soviet uniforms | I am a history teacher looking to add to my collection of | impressions that I can bring into the classroom. Can anyone help me find | accurate information on WWII Soviet combat uniforms? I especially need | reference materials and a source for patterns or original/reproduction | uniform parts and gear. Feel free to contact me directly. Try checking Army&Navy stores and surplus companies. Since the end of the Cold War, there has been a lot of Soviet surplus on the American market. The Soviet Army great coats, I believe, have not changed since the Second World War. ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 11:54:43 TZ Subject: RE: 18th c. dress fastener | I think Janet Arnold's book on 16th c. costuming shows metal (2-piece) | grommets used, but covered w/ thread. These are not grommets in the modern sense. They are simply metal rings, held in place by the thread. ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 11:45:05 TZ Subject: RE: Dress closure | I've done quite a lot of 16th century bodices/gowns, making holes in the | relevant closure and buttonholing the hole - I've only once bothered with | metal eyelets (as they are called ofer here) and they seemed more bother | than they were worth. To the best of my knowledge, the only time metal rings (not really eyelets in the modern sense) were used was in some under bodies (corsets) that needed extra strength to stand the strain. | can you sew through whalebone? The only time I've seen it was in a museum | case. It would be tough going with a needle -- you would probably want to punch a hole with an awl first. ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 11:48:41 TZ Subject: Re: COSTUME: Braveheart | Velvet, yes--crushed lycra velvet, no. the closest thing modern fabric | stores have to period velvet is cotton velvet. Unholstery velvet is probably a better approximation. (In texture, that is, not, of course, in content.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 22:26:38 -0700 From: jastown@halcyon.com (Jas. Townsend & Son, Inc. ) Subject: Braveheart-woad Re discussion of costuming etc. in "Braveheart" - I just happened to look through our new copies of the Men-at-Arms Series #151 from Osprey Military Books, "The Scottish and Welsh Wars 1250-1400" today. Both William Wallace and Robert the Bruce are depicted wearing very spiffy armor, on fully caprisonned (sp?) horses and descriptions of heraldric arms of both. This series is well known for the accuracy and detail of the information they present, so it would seem the movie took considerable license here and there. Still a great movie! As for William and his men wearing the woad, I got the impression that it was NOT normally done by their contemporaries, that they were doing it to inspire pride in their customs and history as a country and to inspire fear in their enemies by their barbaric appearance. Or maybe I just read too much into it. (BTW, saw somebody at a SCA event do the blue paint and barbarian hair bit - too bad he didn't go all the way with the clothes too ;-) -Theta@jastown ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jul 95 12:16:55 PDT From: Allan Terry Subject: 18th-century eyelets Trystan, The way to get reinforced eyelets that are not metal grommets is to cut a round hole in the fabric with sharp embroidery scissors and embroider closely around the edges with a buttonhole or blanket stitch. A wire ring can be placed over the fabric and under the stitching, for extra reinforcement. The effect is very nice. There may be a way to get some sewing machines to make small round holes with their buttonholers or embroidery features; whether and how would depend on the brand of machine. Hope this helps. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 20:25:07 -0700 From: fishcat@hooked.net (Trystan L. Bass) Subject: 18th c. dress fastner--thanks! Thanks to everyone who gave me suggestions about how to fasten my 18th c. ball gown! Hand-worked buttonholes/eyelets seem pretty difficult to me, but I think I will test it out on a swatch of the dress fabric. I'll also try stitching over the grommets -- this seems like it would be stronger. The best idea, IMO, was to stitch around a metal ring -- this would provide strength (a vital necessity), yet might be less bulky than grommets & stitching. Now I need to find some type of ring -- maybe a very narrow washer? Or a very strong jump ring? Prob. whichever I can find. And to those who asked why I'm not using the original closure up side of the stomacher, well, it just doesn't fit me very well that way. Don't know why. Lacing up the front would prob. fit better, but I have some specific decorations planned for the stomacher that require it be flat/uninterrupted. The main prob. with the hook closure (up both back & front) is not the lack of tightness (as several respondants thot), but the possibility of being too tight -- sometimes I just feel like deep breathing in my costumes, y'know ;-) Thanks again! It sure is convenient to have a bunch of experts right at hand! --Trystan fishcat@hooked.net @->->-- Trystan L. Bass --<-<-@ TrystBass@aol.com http://www.hooked.net/users/fishcat/ ------------------------------ End of Volume 334 -----------------------