From: Gretchen Miller Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 19:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 336, 7/11/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 336, July 11, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: Bias-cut hose -- myth or reality Period behavior manuals Civil War Lady conference, Ohio Eyelet buttonhole tips Woad 19th C hairstyles/coverings Straight vs crossed lacing--the explanation ISO: Red dye for linen Question and answer: Theatrical Costuming journals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheaG@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 13:48:48 -0400 Subject: bias-cut hose I'm surprised no one has mentioned this reference yet (or maybe I missed it): ------------- from: Textiles and Clothing c.1150-1450 Medieval Finds from Excavations in London by Elisabeth Crowfoot, Frances Pritchard and Kay Staniland Published by the Museum of London, 1992 ISBN 0-11-290445-9 pg 185: Bias Cutting: There is not a great deal of evidence for the use of bias cutting in the middle ages and the evidence from the London textiles tends to support this finding. [...discussion of why anyone would _want_ to use a bias cut..] Contemporary pictorial evidence showing diagonal stripes and checks suggests that bias cutting was in use for parti-coloured clothing...but in this sort of instance probably more for the novel visual effect than for body-fitting qualities... Hose: The main evidence for bias cutting found among the excavated textiles from London centres upon fragmentary pieces of leg coverings from 14th-century deposits. The elasticity which bias cutting offers makes it far superior as regards fit and, although wasteful of material, it was widely used for this reason in the middle ages. It has been suggested that bias-cut legwear came into use by the 11th or 12th century since manuscript illuminations show diagonally striped legwear fitting closely to the contour of the leg. ----------- There is more but I don't want to anger the copyright gods ;-). The text goes on to detail how hose were worn by men and women, giving a few illustrations taken from manuscript illuminations. Then the text discusses the 14th-century hose found including cut, construction, weave, and dye. Also given are diagrams illustrating the most usual cut (shaping, patterns) of hose for the 14th and 16th-centuries. The 16th-century hose ("excavated from City sites earlier this century [20th-century] and as yet unpublished" (pg 188)) seem to be virtually uniform in shaping. The 14th-century hose had more variety. Perhaps our fore-tailors were still experimenting? {strangely, no mention is made of 15th-century hose} Note: This book is available through ILL. Thea TheaG@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 15:19:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Judy Gerjuoy Subject: Re: Period Behavior There are a number of books dealing with behavior from the medieval period. Just glancing through my shelves I find in English: QUEENE ELIZABETH'S ACHADEMY, A BOOKE OF PRECEDENCE, &C. edited by Frederick J. Furnivall, with essays on Italian and German books of courtesty by W.M. Rossetti and E. Oswrl, Early English Text Society. >From an earlier period, but quite useful is The Babees Book, also edited by Frederick J. Furnivall and produced orignally by the Early English Text Society. jaelle jaelle@access.digex.net ------------------------------ From: ARISAID@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 18:00:12 -0400 Subject: Civil War Lady Conference For Your Info: Received latest edition of Civil War Lady Magazine and found a conference that may interest some of you who are studying Civil War era clothing and society. July 21, 22, 23, 1995: Columbus Ohio 1995 NATIONAL CIVIL WAR LADY CONFERENCE Focus: The Middle Class American Women of the 1860's Speakers: BETH MILLER: Technical Clothing Researcher and Writer. Studies/presentations include fabrics and trims par originals; North and South Gowns; Colors and designs, special occassion dressing (what was worn when!) Construction techniques as found on originals, and a display of original gowns from her immense collection. SAUNDRA ALTMAN, Researcher and Creator/Owner of "Past Patterns" Company. Studies on her latest research on Skirt Supporting Corset and Corded Skirts. Wonderful slide presentations from originals studied. KAREN CHARTRAND, Author, Instructor American Social History, Social historian. Studies on social etiquette of the middle class, Social activities of women in the 1850-60's period, Deportment, manners and feminity of the era, and as keynote address speaker "What defines the 'middle class' of the 1860's?" CYNTHIA AMNEAS, Milliner, Cincinnati Art Museum. Study of bonnets, hats and headwear worn by women of the 1860's. Focus on original millinery. She created the millinery for the traveling display "With Grace and Favor". Original hats and bonnets will be on display. GERRY BARKER, director of Frontier Resources. Presentation on rural working lives and rural women of the 1860's. Includes daily routines of the women. ROBERT HILL, cooking historian, cooking editor and author. Presentations on cooking practices of the 1860's and their evolution. Procedures, utensils, cooking techniques for fireside cooking will be given. ALSO: Workshop on womens hairstyles of the 1860's and an 1860's elegant Soiree with classical music and parlour games! Tuition: $179.00 Begins Friday Evening 7:30 pm, concludes Sunday at Noon. For detailed infomation and registration packet contact: The Civil War Lady Magazine 622 3rd Ave., S.W. Pipestone, MN 56164 Phone/Fax 507-825-3182 Sincerely, Karen, The Bonnie Lass ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 10:03:19 +1000 (EST) From: Carolyn Fraser Subject: Re: eyelet buttonholes Just a few tips on constructing those buttonholes before you give it a try. You will find that heavy thread, which used to be called "buttonhole twist", but which is now called something that escapes me will work a thousand times better than regular weight thread. You may find another way to construct buttonholes that is better for you, but I have found that the most efficient method is to first punch out the buttonhole with a leather punch, then sew a circle of stitches around the hole at a distance that you want your buttonhole stiches to reach. Then on the INSIDE of the garment, encircle the hole with buttonhole/blanket stitch, and then go around the hole again in buttonhole stich on the OUTSIDE. I find that this makes a neat and strong (depending on your fabric) buttonhole for laces. Regarding the metal rings, it is hard to find any that aren't a bit thick to be practical. There are some nice brass ones available at fishing tackle shops, however, all the ones that I've found here in Oz, have been imported from Japan and cost the earth. I did use some brass washers recently on a corset, but I wouldn't have used them on the outside of a gown, as they are thick and wide. If you reinforce the opening with a few layers of fabric (and perhaps interfacing) you shouldn't have a problem. You might also consider boning the edge and running your eyelets next to the boning - it is 18th C that you are aiming at?. Good luck, Carolyn Fraser Brisbane Australia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 22:42:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Woad On Tue, 4 Jul 1995, Zachary Kessin wrote: > I have seen real woad. It does not smell that bad. There is a touch > of oder but nothing awfull. I dont think wearing it would overwelm you > with smell. It isn't the woad itself that smells -- it's that the traditional method of processing it for dying involves the use of fermented urine. Heather Rose Jones (I'm going to plant a woad patch sometime this summer, but I haven't decided just how traditional I plan to be in the processing!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 23:24:53 -0700 From: ellett@ix.netcom.com (Joseph Ellett ) Subject: Re: bias-cut hose I took a class in bias draping a couple of years ago at the Sewing Workshop in San Francsico taught by Sandra Ericson. In her presentation she pointed out bias cut leggings in the Bayeaux Tapistry, circa 1066 AD. Just because we don't have alot of or any existing garments does not mean that it didn't exist. If any thing wore out fast, I would put my money on leggings. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jul 1995 16:27:40 +0000 From: "GILLIAN RICHARDS (02) 716 3712" Subject: Hair - up and/or covered C19th Greetings, I have recently been reading a lot of US 19C frontier Women's Autobiographies (and watching the Wild West series on our Government channel) and one thing that struck me was the difference in hairstyles between what was written/shown as documentary and ANYTHING done as fiction/historical fiction/movie/series. THe "genuine" sources all stated that once a girl started wearing corsets and her dress was full-length, then her hair was up anywhere in public, and at the very least in plaits or otherwise confined at other times (like when at home with the family - and even then only while doing extremely hard work or in very isolated areas) I cannot recall any movie or series where at least one of the "women's" hair was loose around her shoulders or back in a normal situation (like doing the shopping or visiting neighbours). Would this not be considered extremely uncouth? As a long-hair myself, my hair only comes out at exceptional parties - and even then it's held back with combs. It would get far too grubby otherwise, nit to mention knotted. (I also wonder if my messages are getting on - I certainly get them back, but I have never seen a reply to any of them - we have a weird server here and there are suspicions that it may be being "censored" - could someone just privately e-mail me to let me know they've seen this? sorry to let my insecurities get in the way). Yours Gillian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 95 16:57 EST From: dawn@babel.DIALix.oz.au (Dawn Elson) Subject: metal rings For those peaple talking about reinforced eyelets. The best source of rings that I have found-yes I have tried this, is fishing tackle shops. The critters are called "solid brass rings" and come in at least two sizes and several colours. There is NO problem with strength here. These also work brilliantly for the front closure rings on early Italian renaissance gowns. > Now I >need to find some type of ring -- maybe a very narrow washer? Or a very >strong jump ring? Prob. whichever I can find. Dawn -- -------------------------------+------------------------------------- Dawn Elson | dawn@babel.dialix.oz.au -------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: cpecourt@mhv.net Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 10:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Types of lacings On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, Pam Rowe wrote: > Forwarded message: > > From grm+@andrew.cmu.edu Fri Jun 30 08:31:18 1995 > > From: Mrs C S Yeldham > > Subject: Dress closure > > > One effect I have found depends on whether I straight or cross-lace. > > Please forgive me, fellow listmembers, but what is the difference between > these two types of lacings. That is, how is each done? I probably should > have learned about this somewhere along the way, but I seem to have missed > it somehow. Are there other types of lacings? Please email; this is > probably not of interest to many, as I suspect that I am only clueless. > > --<-{@ --<-{@ --<-{@ --<-{@ --<-{@ --<-{@ --<-{@ --<-{@ --<-{@ > Pam Rowe (Rowanna in the SCA) | I speak for no one but myself!! > prowe@msrcnavo.navy.mil | > Located in soggy south Mississippi/Louisiana!! > I'd like the answer to this question too. it has been bugging me for some time. In fact it just came up again at a recent event, and no one seemed to know the answer. Thanks Chantal ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jul 1995 08:27:32 -0800 From: "Karen Lovejoy" Subject: Re: Hair - up and/or covered Reply to: RE>Hair - up and/or covered C19th That is one of my pet peeves. I have been in the SCA for 15 years and as a 16th cent Elizabethan noble woman, my hair is always up in a coif or escoffion. I have tried for years to persuade others that a) wearing your hair up is the more period way to wear it, and b) at camping events it stays much cleaner and neater that way. I also hate it in movies when the clothes aren't to far off period but the hair is flying every which way. Drives me crazy. Oh well, maybe if more like minded folk get on the band wagon we can make a change here. -------------------------------------- >Date: 7/5/95 0:46 >To: Karen Lovejoy >From: GILLIAN RICHARDS (02) 716 3712 Greetings, I have recently been reading a lot of US 19C frontier Women's Autobiographies (and watching the Wild West series on our Government channel) and one thing that struck me was the difference in hairstyles between what was written/shown as documentary and ANYTHING done as fiction/historical fiction/movie/series. THe "genuine" sources all stated that once a girl started wearing corsets and her dress was full-length, then her hair was up anywhere in public, and at the very least in plaits or otherwise confined at other times (like when at home with the family - and even then only while doing extremely hard work or in very isolated areas) I cannot recall any movie or series where at least one of the "women's" hair was loose around her shoulders or back in a normal situation (like doing the shopping or visiting neighbours). Would this not be considered extremely uncouth? As a long-hair myself, my hair only comes out at exceptional parties - and even then it's held back with combs. It would get far too grubby otherwise, nit to mention knotted. (I also wonder if my messages are getting on - I certainly get them back, but I have never seen a reply to any of them - we have a weird server here and there are suspicions that it may be being "censored" - could someone just privately e-mail me to let me know they've seen this? sorry to let my insecurities get in the way). Yours Gillian ------------------------------ From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Wed, 05 Jul 95 11:37:05 EST Subject: Re[2]: Types of lacings To those who asked about lacings, ther are two types that I use: cross and offset. The crossed lacings are what everybody sees on bodices. You start at either the top or bottom of the bodice (I prefer the bottom -- it seems to lace stronger and tighter) and lace the way you do shoelaces. In other words, divid the cord in equal halves and lace across the bodice in a double zigzag pattern. For this to be effective, the eyelets have to be even on either side of the garment. .|. .|. .|. For offset lacing, the eyelets are offset on either side of the garment, that is, if you put the garment together at the opening, the eyelets would form a zigzag pattern across it. Use the cord like you are threading a needle. Tie off an end and lace it through the bottom eyelet. The proceed up the garment in the zigzag with the one lacing until you get to the top, pull the lacing tight, and tie it off. Look at the drawing for Eleanor of Toledo's gown in Janet Arnold's *Patterns of Fashion* (16th century) and you will see what I'm trying to describe. The offset lacing will result in a much tighter fit, since you can pull the material together all the way to the edge, while the crosslacing prevents you from letting the edges touch. |. .| |. .| I think that straight lacing goes across the edges in a straight line on the outside, but in a zigzag inside the garment. I have never tried it, since it seems to require too much effort. .-. .-. Hope this helps. Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com ------------------------------ From: dlxibm!Liz_Jones@SMTPGWY Date: Wed, 05 Jul 95 11:55:40 EST Subject: bias-cut hose Regarding the museum of London bias-cut examples I have both seen and made the hose diagrammed therein. On my husband, they work fairly well, although on my example I had to fiddle with the cut of the heel and toe a bit. Also, we both have very thick ankles and wide feet, which make it necessary for the ankle area to be a bit larger than for the average person. This gives a bit of bagginess, but nothing that bad. All in all, I was very pleased with the fit. I did a mockup out of thin poly-cotton, and the second rendition out of wool satteen/satin (?). I also brought them up to doublet level, although it is hard to see where the originals might have ended. I am very interested in this subject, especially about Italian examples that do not have any "triangle inserts" on either side of the arch. Also, I have experimented with this design and diagrams from Kohler on the buttocks piecing. Unfortunately, what I derived was baggy-butt syndrome: in order to allow someone to sit down, the seat would back when standing. Obviously the Italian ones did not do this, although I have seen "meaner" peasant examples in Bruegel, etc. that obviously did not fit as well. There are at least two articles on similar hose in various issues of Costume magazine. Any info on the butt/Italian issues would be Greatly Appreciated. Regards, Damiana/Liz Jones ljones@datalogix.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 12:11:22 -0700 From: Linda.McAllister@Eng.Sun.COM (Linda McAllister) Subject: Re: Hair - up and/or covered It's an old thread, but a good one! This is one of my pet peeves as well - respectable (and probably non- respectable) women did not go out in public with their heads uncovered! There's a film called "A Walk up Market Street", which was made by strapping a camera to the front of a streetcar in San Francisco in 1905 (could be 1907) and photographing the scene as the streetcar progressed up the street. What struck me about the film was - there were no conventions about which side of the road to drive on - pedestrians were as suicidal as their modern descendants in terms of not watching where they were going - everyone - male and female - is wearing a hat {Warning - the following paragraph contains opinions based on my personal observations and not necessarily documented} Women for the most part wore hats in public through the 40's at least, and definitely wore hats for more formal occasions through the early 60's. Hair started getting longer in the 40's, but was still contained in some way. Women started wearing their hair long and unbound in the 50's - but this was limited to Beatniks and their ilk for the most part. Long, loose hair really started in the 60's, originally as a symbol of rebellion. There's a good book, _Hollywood and History_, on the influence of current fashions on costuming. The gist of its argument is that no matter how careful the costume designers are, current hair and makeup styles are hard to avoid. linda ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From grm+@andrew.cmu.edu Wed Jul 5 10:46 PDT 1995 >Return-Path: >Date: 5 Jul 1995 08:27:32 -0800 >From: "Karen Lovejoy" >Subject: Re: Hair - up and/or covered >To: "Costumers" , "GILLIAN RICHARDS (02) 716 3712" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP/QM 3.0.0 Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2147 Reply to: RE>Hair - up and/or covered C19th That is one of my pet peeves. I have been in the SCA for 15 years and as a 16th cent Elizabethan noble woman, my hair is always up in a coif or escoffion. I have tried for years to persuade others that a) wearing your hair up is the more period way to wear it, and b) at camping events it stays much cleaner and neater that way. I also hate it in movies when the clothes aren't to far off period but the hair is flying every which way. Drives me crazy. Oh well, maybe if more like minded folk get on the band wagon we can make a change here. ------------------------------ From: TheaG@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 19:55:42 -0400 Subject: red dye for linen While having a rambling discussion the other day, the topic of dyeing linen red came 'round. One participant voiced the opinion that a bright red dye (such as we now have) was not possible with natural dyes and that when an historic source refers to cloth being "red", the actual color was more what we now would call brown. 1. Is there a natural dye that a. produces a bright red b. produces a bright red when applied to linen fabric c. was available in Europe (Italy?) in the 16th century d. was used in Europe (Italy?) in the 16th century 2. Would such a dye have been a. used on linen fabric b. colorfast (and to what degree) While I'm at it, would linen fabric have been used as the main outer fabric for a gown or doublet, etc.? Thea TheaG@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 20:51:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Katherine L. Rodman" Does anyone know if there are any theatrical periodicals on costuming out there? My husband recieves Lighting Dimensions and we both get TCI but I was wondering if there was one solely dedicated to costuming. If you know of any please send name and address. Thank you, Katherine L. Rodman afn25136@freenet.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 18:47:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Dianne Karp Subject: Re: Woad Ah, come on Tangwystal! I thought Laurels would go to any lengths for authenticity!!!! BTW, bought the book. Liked the story very much. Interesting twist. Siobhan n S On Tue, 4 Jul 1995, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > On Tue, 4 Jul 1995, Zachary Kessin wrote: > > > I have seen real woad. It does not smell that bad. There is a touch > > of oder but nothing awfull. I dont think wearing it would overwelm you > > with smell. > > It isn't the woad itself that smells -- it's that the traditional method > of processing it for dying involves the use of fermented urine. > > Heather Rose Jones > (I'm going to plant a woad patch sometime this summer, but I haven't > decided just how traditional I plan to be in the processing!) > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 95 18:46:16 PDT From: Allan Terry Subject: Theatrical costuming journal Katherine, The _Cutters' Research Journal_ is a practical quarterly publication for theatrical and historic costumers. Every issue has patterns and/or drafting instructions; reprints of period magazine articles; and book, software, and pattern reviews. Often there are also articles or tips on how people solved specific costuming problems. This is a professional publication and all articles are screened by professionals in the costume field. Their address is: Cutters' Research Journal USITT 10 West 19th St., Suite 5A New York, NY 10011-4206 Subscriptions are $12/year for USITT members, $16/year for nonmembers. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ End of Volume 336 -----------------------