From: Gretchen Miller Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 340, 7/13/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 340, July 13, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: Encouraging historical hairstyling Leather Beadwork recommendation Arms and armor Straight vs cross lacing Hair and haircoverings Red dye for linen Appropriate underwear for costume Stuffing for Trunkhose ISO: Kilt pattern Gloves for dancing Articles of interest in current "Ladies Gallery" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gregory Stapleton Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 09:45:09 PDT Subject: Re: Hair - up and/or covered Goodday, goode Gentles! Greetings from Lord Gawain Kilgore, Being a male, this may be an ignorant question/suggestion, but I'll forge ahead anyway as that hasn't seemed to have stopped me yet. :) If this bothers you so, M'Lady, have you ever tried to get one or more of these other ladies together and have a "hair dressing" party, where you get together and do each others hair up? Seems like that would be a fun way to get others to be period "vogue". :) Hopefully a helpful suggestion. Yours in Service, Gawain Kilgore gregsta@microsoft.com ---------- >From: None Of Your Business >To: Karen Lovejoy >Cc: Costumers ; "GILLIAN RICHARDS 02 716 3712" >Subject: Re: Hair - up and/or covered >Date: Thursday, July 06, 1995 9:13AM On 5 Jul 1995, Karen Lovejoy wrote: > Reply to: RE>Hair - up and/or covered C19th > > That is one of my pet peeves. I have been in the SCA for 15 years and as a > 16th cent Elizabethan noble woman, my hair is always up in a coif or > escoffion. I have tried for years to persuade others that a) wearing your > hair up is the more period way to wear it, and b) at camping events it stays > much cleaner and neater that way. I also hate it in movies when the clothes > aren't to far off period but the hair is flying every which way. Drives me > crazy. Oh well, maybe if more like minded folk get on the band wagon we can > make a change here. First of all darling, you might want to try them (longhairs) one at a time, I have had great results with that method here. Also keep in mind the f word (fun) make it seem fun and people will respond. One last point, there are just enough examples in period sources of hair down (mostly for artistic reasons that there will always be those who would rather display thier hair and feel pretty that way. :> Keep the faith > > ------------------------------ From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 10:50:33 EST Subject: Re: leather If you are ever in the Washington DC area, stop into the Freer Gallery (mostly Oriental art) and see the Peacock Room by James McNeil Whistler. The walls are hung with stamped and painted 16th century Spanish leather that Catherine of Aragon brought with her when she married Henry VIII. Whistler angered his patron by painting OVER the original patterns of the leather. It's still lovely if you can get close enough to see it in detail. Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:50:18 -0400 From: Joe Marfice Subject: Re: Beadwork > Subject: Time:10:58 > OFFICE MEMO Beadwork Date:7/3/95 > >Hello, I am new to this network so I'm not sure if this is the right >place to post this or not but anyway, here goes. I am seeking sources >of information about the techniques used in application of beads to >cloth as it was practised in the Middle Ages, most particularly in the >16th century. If you >know of any books or articles or anything else that would be of any help >in my quest, I would be most appreciative if you would send an answer my >way. Also, I found an address for a beadwork network in Bead And Button >Magazine but it doesn't work. Does anyone know of one that does? My >e-mail address is klovejoy@u.washington.edu Dear Karen, My friend Grizel (SCA, mka Jennifer Funk, scababe@aol.com) and you should talk! She is probably the Middle Kingdom's leading "beadswoman", and heavily researches and teaches this topic. I've taken the liberty of forwarding this message to both of you. :{) | Broom, at The Lady Perrine | aka Joe Marfice | Ministerium honor est. \|/ which means "I don't speak the language." /|\ 513-222-2330 233 Perrine Street //|\\ af289@dayton.wright.edu Dayton (my fayre citee), OH 45410 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:55:02 -0400 From: Joe Marfice Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 332, 6/30/95 (heraldr On Mon, 3 Jul 1995, Alan Braggins wrote: > > Anyway, talk of Scotland reminds me of something I saw this weekend - a > painting of two knights who had been killed "doing their duty in Scotland". > Foolishly, I didn't make a note of their names or the dates, but what > interested me was that they were shown with their arms painted on their > breastplates (not on a surcoat). (One of them did have a shield, but its > inside was towards the viewer, so I've no idea whether it was painted too). > > The whole thing was pretty stylised, and the arms were quartered enough > that they looked more designed to show the family tree than to provide > identification in battle, but was it ever customary to paint armour? I've never seen armory painted directly on the breastplate, either, but German knights did paint their arms on their great helms. There are several examples from c. 15th C. to Elizabethan times of armour (leather and steel) with personal badges displayed on the armour (etched a/o gilded, in the case of steel). I don't know of any arms so displayed, and in any case these are used as design elements, and not large emblems. | Broom, at The Lady Perrine | aka Joe Marfice | Ministerium honor est. \|/ which means "I don't speak the language." /|\ 513-222-2330 233 Perrine Street //|\\ af289@dayton.wright.edu Dayton (my fayre citee), OH 45410 ------------------------------ From: Mrs C S Yeldham Date: 10 Jul 95 12:15:00 BST Subject: Re: Re: Hello, I am now back off holiday and can answer some questions/points made recently. My holiday was at Kentwell, in the 16th century re-creation. We have had lovely weather and I spent my time in the back woods, lovely and cool, cooking for 5 people and being a lewd woman and thief to the few visitors who reached that far, great fun and a lovely group of people. Anyway, I seem to have left a query beind me about cross and straight lacing. Kathleen explained the first clearly. The point about this is that it is impossible to close completely, and easy to loosen to give yourself some more space (late 16th century bodice not attached to skirt), so was less demure than straight-lacing. In order to straight lace you take a long length of lace and put it through the bottom two holes on *one* side of the bodice (holes parallel and laces even). Take the two lengths and put them through the opposite holes (outside to inside). Run the two lengths up inside the bodice and put through the second hole (ie the bottom one comes out through the third hole and the one from the second hole comes out through the fourth hole. Then take the laces across to the other side of the bodice in parallel. Repeat until you come to the top on one side. This is where you may have to fudge and bring one lace across to the other side and out through one of the top holes. Since the crossing is inside the bodice it doesn't matter if you bring the two sides of the bodice completely togeather. I hope you can follow this, but I can't draw it, it is not difficult to do once you get the hang of it. The problem I have found is that there is more pull upwards on straight-lacing than there is in cross, and if my holes are slightly uneven I get the material rick-racking. I have not used the offset technique Kathleen described. In my experience the strength of a lacing hole depends much more on the strength of the material used and the interlining than the sewing, that's where stretch tends to occur. I tend to use an awl to widen the gaps between the fibres, and only trim on the inside with scissors (lining and interlining). This means as little weakening of the fabric as possible and the sewing is partly to hold the fibres into position rather than to finish off cut edges (works best with wool). Hair covering I'm with Karen on this one - it drives me potty too. The type of thinking behind covering the head is so basic to medieval thinking, and indeed modern until a generation ago! As far as 16th century rules are concerned, they are fairly simple. Everyone covers their heads at all times, men and women, even in the privacy of the bedchamber, The only exception to this is brides, who wore it down as a public display of maidenhood - which is why it was so shocking in Anne Boleyn, because everyone knew she wasn't. There is a lovely description of Catherine of Aragon riding into London with her red-gold hair spread around her, which shocked no-one. Girl children wore their hair down but would still wear a coif over their head, which looks charming. There are references to lewd women showing their hair, or being careless about it, but although they may have shown more than modest women, I suspect this is a means of social control than a description of how prostitutes behaved - although red-heads would certainly want to show it off in that trade! The woodcuts tend to show 'working women' wearing much the same headgear as other women of the period. However, in the late Elizabethan period the working clothes of such women showed the entire breasts - with neat ruffs going right round the edge of the bodice! The only references to Queens wearing white I have come across relate to the French Queens, who wore white as mourning. What is an escoffion? Apart from coifs, women can also wear English Gables (dog-kennel look, covers the hair completely) French hoods (the pretty ones, shows the front part of the hair, usually smooth, centre parting) and hats of all shapes and sizes, usually worn with coifs. cf Victorian women's hair - they did have dressings used to keep the hair smooth and/or glossy. For a short while you could buy macassar oil in The Body Shop, which gave my hair a lovely glossy gleam, though a little went a long way and you could see why the antimacassar was invented! Red/Woad/Indigo I'm not a dyer, but friends have achieved lovely orange/reds with maddar, but it fades quite quickly. Woad and indigo may be the same family, but I understand the processing of indigo smells much worse - under Elizabeth it was specifically banned from within a certain distance from towns and royal residences. Will have to check distance if you want. Enough for now! Caroline ------------------------------ From: mholland@on-ramp.ior.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 10:03 PDT Subject: New Dress - Ignorant in fashion I am embarrassed to be asking this - but I guess this is the place to be embarrassed if one has to, right? Recently, my husband made a series of purchases at an estate auction. As a part of that purchase, a trunk of period costumes was discovered. One of the dresses appears to be my size! The best way to describe it is to say that it appears to be of the Madame Pompadore style. Now I know that the hair is supposed to be piled on top of the head, and I have a rough idea about shoes and jewelry, but I have scored a zero when it comes to undergarments for the dress. Checking with some costume books from the library, I see that they all wore some kind of corset during those times. The problem with the modern corsets is that they all come up too high - above the neckline of the dress. It isn't as if I am going to wear this costume for a play or presentation before the local historical society, but I would like to wear it at costume parties, et al. It is a beautiful dress - very heavy and sturdy. I am sure it was used for stage plays because of traces of stage body makeup here and there. It is probably not an authentic replica. Does anyone have any "tricks" or advice as to how to go about the undergarment/neckline problem? Sharon ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 11:09:02 TZ Subject: RE: Elizabethan trunkhose | I am about to try and make an Elizabethan doublet and pants | and still haven't quite figured out how to do the pants so | they have the proper fullness. Were they stuffed with horse | hair and if so where does one get it or a reasonable | substitute? Trunk hose were stuffed with whatever happened to be available -- horse hair, straw, or scraps of cloth are all possibilities. The easiest thing to do is use your sewing scraps. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:29:59 -0400 From: zachar@fast.net (Zacharias Family) Subject: Re: Red dye (Vermilion in OED) According to the OED, the word Vermilion has been used as a noun, an adjective or a verb. meanings of the noun: 1-a. Cinabar or red crystalline mercuric sulphide, [...] much valued on account of its brilliant scarlet colour, and largely used as a pigment or in the manufacture of red sealing wax; also any red earth resembling this and similarly used as a pigment. [such meaning in texts as early as 1296, but the earliest text relating to clothing seems to be from 1480]. 1-b. used as a cosmetic or for painting the body. 2. The colour of the pigment: a bright red or scarlet. [earliest text - 1400s]. 3-a. Wool or yarn of a red or scarlet colour. [1388]. 3-b. A fabric dyed with vermilion [1641]. There is more, but none of it relevant to textiles, as far as I can tell. Joaquina Hill Zacharias ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 11:23:11 TZ Subject: Re: 1837-1847 dance outfit | > Also, were gloves always used when dancing? | | I've seen the following Victorian quote (paraphrased): | | "It is as vulgar to dance without gloves as it is to eat while | wearing gloves." Note that the word "vulgar" means "common." If this is an accurate paraphrase, it implies that the upper crust always wore gloves while dancing, but "lesser" people did not. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 15:53:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Jane Ibl Subject: Kilt Pattern Does anyone have any recommendations on where to get a good kilt pattern? (preferably one that has easy directions?) I'm sending this on behalf of a friend who needs to get a pattern ASAP. Please reply privately to me at: iblj@ruby.ils.unc.edu Thanks. Jane Ibl School of Information and Library Science University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill Chapel Hill, NC 27599 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "That's it! Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, and call off Christmas!" - The Sheriff of Nottingham, "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 20:10:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Katherine L. Rodman" Subject: Re: New Dress - Ignorant in fashion We had the same problem a few years ago and we bought bustiers at Sears of all places and just cut down the breast cup so you couldn't see them. I hope this helps Kat afn25136@freenet.ufl.edu ------------------------------ From: VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 21:00:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: new issue of Lady's Gallery My August/September issue of Lady's Gallery just came in, and it has several articles which may interest the late 19th century folk out there. "Wrapped by Necessity: Western Women and Work Clothes" by Heather Palmer "Little Dress on the Prairie" by Deborah L. Byrne "Victorian Lady: 'A Bird in a Gilded Cage?'" by Diane Kressner "Gracious Garden Gatherings" by Julie Lassiter "Care of the Hair" by Jonathon Walford, illustrations are predominantly 19th and 20th century "The Home Purse-Making Market" by Lynell K. Schwartz, mostly beaded Also a review of the exhibit "To Top It All II" at the Western Reserve Histori- cal Society in Cleveland, Ohio, featuring hats and bonnets 1775 to the present. This exhibit runs until the end of 1995, but no catalog is mentioned. Oops, one little mistake. "Care of the Hair is actually a reprint of an article in _The Young Ladies' Journal_ August 1, 1895. Jonathon Walford wrote the article "Tress & Codes" with the variety of illustrations mentioned above. Vicki Betts vicki@lib.uttyl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 18:55:02 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: red dye for linen :To the best of my knowledge, the brightest, most colorful red of the time :came from cochineal (the exoskeloton of some tropical beetle or other) :that was colorfast on both vegetable and animal (wool and silk) fibers. :It was used in Turkey and the middle east a thousand years ago, if not :more. Linen is a hard fabric to dye. The only other common red dye I :know of is madder, which is a pain to use and usually results in a :pinkish red color, unless one uses a month's salary to create a :quadruple-strength dye solution. :============================= :aleed@ezmail.ucs.indiana.edu Actually, the Turkey red prior to the influx of dyestuffs from the New World was Kermes. It is a shield louse closely related to the Central American Cochineal. Cochineal produces a slightly more intense red with somewhat less work. (Neither of which take as much work as Woad and Indigo, which are non-related plants which both produce indigotin- pardon the spelling). Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ From: Mrs C S Yeldham Date: 11 Jul 95 09:40:00 BST Subject: Elizabethan Trunkhose Edward is right to say trunkhose were stuffed with any scraps 'bombast', but perhaps I could be a little more help, depending on Zachary's starting position. Anyway, I am talking about Elizabethan paned trunkhose which run from the waist to somewhere on the thighs, depending on choice, often with canions below. The first layer is next to the skin (or netherhose) and I make it pretty tight, about jeans tightness. Outside this is the layer of fabric to which the padding is quilted, which will have about the fullness the final trunks (ie quite a bit longer than the first layer). To this I quilt several layers of cotton wadding, as the shape needs. This is the stuff quilters use, it comes is various thicknesses and also in polyester, which is horrid to sew. The cotton wadding gives the thickness needed, is light and fairly cool to wear and won't move around with use. Outside this is the 'lining' layer which is the posh lining people can see between the panes. On top of that go the panes, which again need to be lined and decorated. I usually interline as well to make sure they are stiff enough. All these outer layers are attached to the top and bottom of the first layer which dictates the length of the trunkhose, or you can also attach the top layer of the canions to this inner layer and the bottom of the trunkhose. Anyway, however full the hose are you need something to dictate the length. Finish off top and bottom, attach cod piece, and voila!! I hope this helps. Caroline ------------------------------ End of Volume 340 -----------------------