From: Gretchen Miller Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 345, 7/18/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 345, July 18, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: Posers for drawing figures Computer pattern programs Tudor Bodice question and answer Costume CD-ROM wish list Textiles and light 1750s men's pattern Irish lace Need advice on 18th C gown/corset Drawing programs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:05:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Findlay Subject: Re: Drawing Program Question I have "poser" and have played with it for about a week. it is very easy to use for figure drawing and capturing "attitude". it has a feature for adding pounds to the figure or subtracting pounds for the waif look. you can add skin and print. then you draw the costumes on. I'll write more as I become more familiar with it. Best Wishes Robin ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Walter Robin Findlay Associate Professor of Theatre Missouri Western State College 4525 Downs Drive St. Joseph, Mo. 64507 Phone: 816-271-4452 E-mail: findlay@mwsc.edu Fax: 816-232-0978 is that all there is........ peggy lee On Sun, 16 Jul 1995, Jim O'Connor wrote: > On Sat, 15 Jul 1995, Kathleen Leggat wrote: > [snip] > > > > I design costumes all the time, but I can't draw worth beans. I > > would literally kill...okay, maybe just maim...for a program that would let > > me design historic costumes that people could recognize on paper... > > > > Were someone to design a program like this, I would be more than > > willing to pay up to $100 for it if the documentation was good, and it cited > > many primary sources for the research. And I'm a starving student! (But I > > am also a costume maker in the SCA) > > > > Kathleen > > > > (who had thought of something like this, but knows nothing about computer > > programming) > > > > Has anyone actually used the program called POSER by a company called > Fractal Design. I recall someone mentioning it a few months back, but > then nothing. Within the last three issues of a magazine called Publish > which is aimed the graphic arts industry there have been full page ads > for this program. > > The first few ads didn't have any price info at all (sort of 'if you have > to ask how much, then you can't afford it!') but the in the latest issue > there are the words 'Special Introductory Offer ONLY $99'. Some additional > info: the program appears to be for Mac & Power Mac only. There is a 800 > number for Fractal Design; 800-297-COOL ask for ext 1533, Dept B2a (no, I > didn't make any of that up!) Beware, I have found that 800 numbers with > lengthy ask for etc... is a long pathway to reach someone who hasn't a > clue what you're talking about. > > Even better this issue (Aug. 1995) includes a review (pg. 40). They give > the program five stars (their highest rating, and in my experience they > appear to be objective, unlike some mags, i.e. not every review gets five > stars.) > > The program seems aimed at helping to draw various 'posed' figures, i.e. > action poses. The review talks about the program being used by 'comic > book artists, art directors creating storyboards, multimedia artists and > animators. It's only illusion to costuming is when it talks about using > a texture map to "dress your characters in formfitting clothes." However > the aim of the program is the create figures that are then used with > other drawing programs, they refer to Fractal Design's Painter and Adobe's > Photoshop. The review covers a lot ground in just one page and there is > no way to do it justice in this short (it started out that way) posting. > > The review says that the $99 price is good till Aug. 31 then it becomes $199. > The magazine Publish is located at 501 Second St., San Francisco, CA 94107, > phone 415 978-3280, fax 415 975-2613, they also list Compuserve > (76127,205) or the WELL (publish). Backorder number is 800 656-7495 (in > Tennessee or outside U.S.A. 615 377-3322.) > > DISCLAIMER: I have *no* connection with any of the companies or magazines > mentioned above. Furthermore, the very reason I make this posting is > because I have real questions as to how useful this program would be to > costumers. Perhaps someone on the list who has had actual experience > with this product can be encouraged to speak up. Sometimes the > developers of a program don't forsee its use in other fields, but that is > rare in my experience. On the hand perhaps this is the tool that some > folks on the list have been looking for. > ------------------------------ From: DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:02:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: Costume CD-ROM/Pattern Software In Kevin Laurence's posting about a costume CD-ROM, he asked what software was available to help consumers design their own patterns. In the most recent issue of THREADS magazine (Sept. '95), they review the 3 most popular programs for custom patterns -- Dress Shop 2.0 (DOS; they are working on a Macintosh version; $129.95 US), Fittingly Sew (Windows or Mac, $169 US), and Personal Patterns (DOS; $179 US or $199 US for Women's Designer Jackets and Suits). The conclusions at the end of the article are as follows: "Which program's the best? Despite my tests, I can't say which program will provide every figure type with the best fit, because they all use different methods of pattern drafting. It all depends on your working style. If you're a sewer who likes a sure thing, is inexperienced with computers, and is uncomfortable altering patterns for fit or style, the many predesigned options in Dress Shop 2.0 may provide enough variety for you... If your a sewer who always changes commercial patterns and enjoys playing with flat-pattern design on paper, you may find Personal Patterns more to your liking. You don't need a lot of computer experience to produce basics that can be used as a starting place for original designs or as overlays you can use to check commercial patterns... If you enjoy both designing your own patterns and working on your computer, then Fittingly Sew is a powerful choice. Although it requires moderate computer skills, making pattern changes on the screen saves time whether you sew professionally or for yourself. Fittingly Sew is a drawing program, so you can also use it to make patterns for simple home furnishings, quilt blocks, and craft items." I have used Dress Shop 1.9. It is easy to use but requires a LOT of measurements, and only turns out a limited (though large) set of modern fashion patterns. The maximums on many of the measurements were limited (a problem corrected in the new version, which was tested on plus sizes, men, children and dwarves), and of course, you can't custom design patterns. I've ordered a demo disk of Fittingly Sew, and if I like it, will ante up for the full program. From my discussions with the company and the descriptions in the article, it sounds like you can custom design patterns for ANYTHING by altering measurements and moving seams, darts, etc. If this is true, it will certainly save me a great deal of time. I'll let the group know about my experiences. ------------------------------ From: "Hicks, Melissa" Subject: Tudor bodice Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 09:19:00 EST Greetings all, please pardon a novice question, I recently created a tudior outfit, based on the 1536 portrait of Jane Seymour. I adapted the pattern from Jean Hunnisett's book (I forget the name at the moment). Hunnisett used Arnold as her primary source. (Unfortunately, at the time I did not have access to Arnold.) Anyway, I had problems with the pattern. The sleeves keep slipping off the shoulder. Has anyone experienced this? How do you get dresses to sit on the point of the shoulder? Could anyone recommend a different pattern to use for future, or a way to fix this problem. I have already tried attaching a strap accross the back of the shoulders but this did not seem to work for me. Melissa Hicks SCA: Meliora de Curci E-Mail: mah@amsa.gov.au ------------------------------ From: Gregory Stapleton Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 10:31:27 PDT Subject: Re: Costumes on CD-ROM ---------- >From: >To: LAURENCE K >Cc: >Subject: Re: Costumes on CD-ROM >Date: Friday, July 14, 1995 2:04PM I would suggest that you have a timeline as an option for one index. Also, I would suggest you have a geographical region option as a sub-index option. I would also like to see Collection information: i.e. where the piece is located, contact information like the address of the location of the piece, phone number, contact person or office, etc. This would allow a researcher to contact the people with the garment for more information if they need it or allow them to visit it themselves. I believe that this is critical information. I see a pretty sizable audience for this CD if you take into account all of the reenactment groups. I belong to the Society for Creative Anachronism, a Medieval Reenactment and Educational group and I know thousands of these CD's would be sold to its members alone. If done right, the potential of this is tremendous. my tupance worth, Gregory gregsta@microsoft.com ------------------------------ Date: 17 Jul 1995 16:15:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Library - Vineland Research Station Subject: light & textiles and 1750's men's pattern There's an interesting article in "New Scientist", May 15th, 1995 describing a study conducted at the National Physical Laboratory in Britain at the request of the Kensington Palace curator on the effect of light on textiles. The article claims that no one had measured the effect of light in a systematic way before. Apparently there is no threshold "light dose" below which textiles are safe. Damage is cumulative - damage by a level of light intensity in two hours is equal to double the light intensity in one hour. On the plus side, Kensington Palace is considering running short guided tours of the Royal Dress collection once every few hours instead a continous trickle, but keeping the room dim until the tour, brightening the room, and then dimming the lights (Problem: this could be awkward for us spontaneous "Why don't we go to the Whatitz collection?" types!) They also concluded that flashbulbs would have to go off every minute of the day to cause real damage. For those of you doing the French and Indian War who are going to Louisburg this month, Parks Canada will be selling (finally!!!) a documented pattern of a man's jacket, which includes neat little variations in style. (Of course, this is too late for those of you who wanted something new to wear to L this is too late for those of you who wanted something new to wear to Louisburg! Now if only Parks Canada would continue this enterprise, preferably with 1812 patterns. Sheridan Alder ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:36:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Deborah Tarsiewicz - 3528981 Subject: Re: LACE & STUFF On Fri, 14 Jul 1995, RMd wrote: > > ...IS THERE SUCH A THING AS IRISH LACE?... > Actually, the Irish are rather famous for their lace. Definitely have your friend pick up some examples for you. Deborah Tarsiewicz :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 22:42 EDT From: gmagnes@logical.net (Gerry Magnes) Subject: patterns Yoo Halloo I am entranced with 18th century costume. I am currently attempting to create a French period piece (circa 1750-female noblewoman)but cannot make a corset due to lack of information upon how to go about making one. Addresses for catalogues dealing in period costumes along with some advice about putting an 18th century gown and undergarments together would be greatly appreciated. p.s. I have just completed my junior year in high school and am planning on pursuing a career in either fashion or costume design. I would very much like to know where any of you fashion/costume designers went to school or got your proffessional training. I have been receiving much info. from colleges like Cornell and Syracuse about their fashion design programs. Is it possible to recieve good training for this industry outside of NY city or California ? Thanks a Bunch Tamar ------------------------------ From: "Hicks, Melissa" > Subject: RE: light & textiles and 1750's men's pattern Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 14:07:00 EST ---------- >From: grm+ >To: h-costume >Subject: light & textiles and 1750's men's pattern >Date: Monday, 17 July 1995 16:15 There's an interesting article in "New Scientist", May 15th, 1995 describing a study conducted at the National Physical Laboratory in Britain at the request of the Kensington Palace curator on the effect of light on textiles. The article claims that no one had measured the effect of light in a systematic way before. Apparently there is no threshold "light dose" below which textiles are safe. Damage is cumulative - damage by a level of light intensity in two hours is equal to double the light intensity in one hour. On the plus side, Kensington Palace is considering running short guided tours of the Royal Dress collection once every few hours instead a continous trickle, but keeping the room dim until the tour, brightening the room, and then dimming the lights (Problem: this could be awkward for us spontaneous "Why don't we go to the Whatitz collection?" types!) Sheriden, I am very interested in recreating lovely old costumes and examing the original articles. I am a member of the SCA. I also have post-graduate qualifications in Museum work (Cultural Heritage Management). So I can see the problems from both angles. Personally I abhor the thought of people actually wearing original wedding dresses (as mentioned in a thread earlier thsi year) simply because I know what that sort of "wear and tear" can do to the fabric. On the other hand, if this light study is correct (BTW it agrees with *many* previous studies on the issue) then I feel that the inconvenience of waiting up to an hour to see one particular gallery in a museum is a small price to pay if in the long run if it means my children also get to the see the same garment in a similar condition in many years time. BTW, did you know that most damage to really old man-made articles (over 450 years) occurs AFTER the item has been placed in a museum? Yours Melissa Hicks SCA: Meliora de Curci They also concluded that flashbulbs would have to go off every minute of the day to cause real damage. For those of you doing the French and Indian War who are going to Louisburg this month, Parks Canada will be selling (finally!!!) a documented pattern of a man's jacket, which includes neat little variations in style. (Of course, this is too late for those of you who wanted something new to wear to L this is too late for those of you who wanted something new to wear to Louisburg! Now if only Parks Canada would continue this enterprise, preferably with 1812 patterns. Sheridan Alder ------------------------------ From: McMovers@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 01:52:49 -0400 Subject: Re: patterns I am a dancer who specializes in reconstructing 18th century dances and I have been working on a costume for this time period. I'm using a pattern for stays and a pattern for a woman's gown by Mill Farm Period Patterns I ordered from Amazon Drygoods. Their number is 1-800-798-7979. They will send you catalogues for $5 - $7 that are filled with costumes for many time periods. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 02:12:54 -0400 From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) Subject: Re: Tudor bodice >Anyway, I had problems with the pattern. The sleeves keep slipping off the >shoulder. Has anyone experienced this? How do you get dresses to sit on >the point of the shoulder? I would say you need to increase the shoulder seam. > >Could anyone recommend a different pattern to use for future, or a way to >fix this problem. I have already tried attaching a strap accross the back >of the shoulders but this did not seem to work for me. I think duct-tape patterns are great for the novice. Basically you need a big roll of duct tape, a tee-shirt you are willing to sacrifice forever, a magic marker and a friend. You don the shirt, without a bra, with a corset if you wear one, then your friend tightly duct tapes you around the middle to just under the breast. At this point you lift one breast, and pieces of tape are placed diagonally over. (if you are wearing a corset this is unnecessary) Then the rest of one half is filled in with tape. Mark the underarm holes, side seams, centre back and centre front, neckline, bottom and should seams with the marker. Now your friend must cut you out of the shirt...up the back. Once it's off, you just cut along the marker lines, then use these pieces to make pattern pieces. (a sturdy fabric makes good pattern pieces if it has no stretch...the pieces then cling to the fabric you are cutting.) Don't forget to add sewing allowance. If the bodice is front-closing, add seam allowance on the centre front but not on the centre back. (and vice-versa for back closing) The piece without the seam allowance is cut on a fold. To make sure everything is right, making a quick mock-up in broadcloth or something else cheap is a good idea. (just remember that there will be a gap...bodices are tight-fitting) The only problem with this method is that the tee-shirt tends to stretch down, so achieving a proper high neck takes some fiddling. Now you have a custom-made bodice pattern for your figure. I hope this helps. Kathleen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 02:12:52 -0400 From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) Subject: Fittingly Sew How do we get demo copies of this program. I would really like to check it out. Thanks Kathleen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 10:51:17 BST From: Alan Braggins Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 344, 7/17/95 > action poses. The review talks about the program being used by 'comic > book artists, art directors creating storyboards, multimedia artists and > animators. It's only illusion to costuming is when it talks about using > a texture map to "dress your characters in formfitting clothes" Getting computer generated models of fabric to drape properly, especially when moving, is still a research project (or at least it was a couple of years ago, when I went to a graphics convention). (My previous job involved databases and CAD/CAM - my current database isn't related to CAD/CAM, so I don't do so much reading about it now). So affordable modelling of costumes other than formfittingLycra for comic superheroes is still a while off. ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 12:08:08 TZ Subject: RE: Drawing Program Question Yes, Poser does restrict you to formfitting, skintight costumes -- jogging suits, superhero costumes (without capes), etc. You can also add things like belt buckles by drawing them in the same layer that defines the model's musculature. It would be nice if it could other types of costumes, but I don't expect to see this soon -- draping cloth is still a research problem in computer graphics. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:35:15 +0100 (BST) From: LAURENCE K Subject: Costumes on CD-ROM and the Web I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my request for info about costumes on CD-ROM. It's been very interesting and helpful. I can see from this mailing list's archives that there was quite an extensive discussion on a costume web site at one point, so I thought you might all be interested in the following message which I found on a newsgroup recently (please note that I have no association with this business, and I am NOT trying to advertise on its behalf): ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Thu, 13 JUL 1995 17:53:20 +0000 >From: Leila Barton >Newgroups: alt.cd-rom, alt.stagecraft, alt.multimedia, alt.music.sondheim >Subject: period costume rentals Casta Diva, inc. period costume rentals, supplyer of costumes for the dramatic arts, opera, television and commercials (print and TV) visit our web site (2 pages) at http://www.access.digex.net/~castadiv for more info. contact Lelia Barton e-mail at castadiv@access.digex.net or 703-803-7970, fax:703-803-7972 14000 G Willard Rd., Chantilly, VA 22021 Casta Diva Inc. is the first costume rental source on the net. ------------------------------ End of Volume 345 -----------------------