From: Gretchen Miller Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 18:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 348, 7/25/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 348, July 25, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: Button history Corsets and corset boning On oilcloth What is plastron? Tudor bodice advice Patternmaker comments ISO: Comments on Empire dress patterns ISO: Supplier for HS drama production costumes Computer drafting program reviews in Threads ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:07:12 +0100 (BST) From: Dorothy Stein Subject: Re: Men and Women's button holes Dear Joe, Thanks much for the file. As to the history of buttons, they 'appear to have been introduced into north European clothing during the first half of the 13th century, when they were worn more for ornament than for practical purposes'. (L White, Medieval Religion and Technology, London: 1978, pp 238, 273) E Crowfoot, F Pritchard and K Staniland, in Textiles and Clothing: Medieval Finds from Excavations in London (London:HMSO, 1992) a description and analysis of a number of depositories of discarded clothing (or, rather, unreusable parts thereof), some of which were almost 100 years old when discarded, find copious evidence of buttons and buttonholes from the 14th century. Thanks again, this is a wonderfully friendly group. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 10:44:04 PDT From: Rachel Subject: RE: Corsets > Ach du lieber! Ouch, and ugh, and all that! > Surely it is cheaper to just buy the correct boning, rather than > buying and throwing away file folders (and having to man-handle > the stays too). >I don't know about the original poster, but I certainly don't buy >and throw away the file folders. The file folders are used all >over my workplace, and each and every one of them eventually tears >apart. I rescue the metal strips from my own torn folders, and >from any that I spot in the waste baskets. Free, sturdy, and >environmentally friendly. :-) But it takes several months to >collect a sufficient supply. > >Naomi > Precisely. My company is large, and I can rescue many file folders from the garbage every week. So let's not go accusing me of being environmentally irresponsible without evidence. And I still hold that it is a resonable alternative to flimsy plastic boning that is widely available, or to hard-to-find and expensive pre-coated metal stays. There. I've said my piece. Now I'll be quiet:-) -Rachel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:35:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Tracy Miller Subject: Re: Corsets On Wed, 19 Jul 1995, Trystan L. Bass wrote: > Raiments carries two Elizabethan Ren. corset patterns for $7 each. They > have a complete kit that includes the patterns & all the materials to make > it for $27. Also carry misc. corset bones, busks, etc., & a ton of > historical patterns & reference books. Catalog is $5. > This kit sounds very interesting. Has anyone tried it? Tracy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:42:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Tracy Miller Subject: RE: Corsets On Thu, 20 Jul 1995, Rachel wrote: > > > > Ach du lieber! Ouch, and ugh, and all that! > > Surely it is cheaper to just buy the correct boning, > rather than > > buying and throwing away file folders (and having to > man-handle > > the stays too). > > >I don't know about the original poster, but I certainly don't > buy > >and throw away the file folders. The file folders are used all > >over my workplace, and each and every one of them eventually > tears > >apart. I rescue the metal strips from my own torn folders, and > >from any that I spot in the waste baskets. Free, sturdy, and > >environmentally friendly. :-) But it takes several months to > >collect a sufficient supply. > > > >Naomi > > > > Precisely. My company is large, and I can rescue many file > folders from the garbage every week. So let's not go accusing > me of being environmentally irresponsible without evidence. And > I still hold that it is a resonable alternative to flimsy > plastic boning that is widely available, or to hard-to-find and > expensive pre-coated metal stays. > > There. I've said my piece. Now I'll be quiet:-) > > -Rachel > > > Wow! I thought I was the only one doing this! They're great! Free, too. Thanks to these, my corset only cost $10.00. Tracy (who's glad to know she's not a nut) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:53:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Deb Subject: RE: Corsets SORRY! Don't jump down my throat! It just sounded like an awful lot of work, to get the metals out of the file folders (mine seem to be glued in place), cut the ends off of all of them, and then get them smooth and coated for non-rustability. All the (purchased) stays which I've shortened have sharper edges than the originals, and poke through the fabric faster. They DO look like a nice weight/thickness. Too short to cover _all_ my stay needs, but they would suffice for most of my corset. The middle front and back stays are about 15 inches long (RevWar time period, French nationality). I don't recall ever seeing any ripped folders where I work. Re-used multiple times ... but still not ripped out. Maybe I should tell the physicists to get tougher with their file folders .... Deb Baddorf baddorf@fnal.gov ------------------------------ From: Staylace@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 12:54:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Corsets Spandex tubing, easily fashioned, works very well. Lingerie and other delicate fabrics, while very pretty, tend to rip. T. Lierse Long Island Staylace Association ------------------------------ From: DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:09:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Corset stays I am a zoftig lady, and I have always used the 1/2" wide steel hoopskirting (two 1/8" pieces of spring steel covered in white buckram, with a channel down the middle that you can sew through it if you wish). It's cheap (see source at end), relatively easy to cut (heavy duty wire cutters or tin snips will do it), and you can purchase crimpable metal tips to cover the ends (Amazon Dry Goods carries them). A 12-yard roll of this costs $11.95, and will make two or three corsets at least. The nice thing about this over purchased stays is that you can cut them to custom lenghts. The purchased stays come in 1" or 1/2" increments, depending on where you get them. If one of the hoopskirting stays fatigues, you can easily and cheaply replace it. I've made 8 Tudor/Elizabethan corsets using this type of boning, as well as innumberable boned "wench" bodices and gown bodices. It works really well. You can also get this same type of boning encased in plastic (then you can wash your ENTIRE corset without having to remove/replace the bones each time). Unfortunately, I purchased mine from a merchant last year at Pennsic and have no mail order source. It is even slightly stiffer than it's buckrum-covered sister, but it's harder to get the crimped ends to stay on (I solved that problem with super glue!) If you want to order some steel hoopskirting through the mail, contact: Zoll's 215-922-0589 This ia a tailor's notions supply store in Philadelphia's famous fabric district, south 4th St. The last time I ordered, they shipped COD via UPS, but you can always send them a check or charge it. I called today, and the price is $11.95 for a 12 yard roll. As I recall, their shipping charges are quite reasonable. I have also purchased from Zoll's (when I was there in person), large rolls (300 yards +) of twill tape, bias bindings, netting (for crinolines), and horsehair braid (the synthetic horse type). They are very helpful and knowledgeable folks. Hope this is helpful! Denise Zaccagnino (Lady Deonora Ridenow in the SCA) ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Corsets Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 13:52:09 -0700 From: Martha Underwood In message you wri te: >On Wed, 19 Jul 1995, Trystan L. Bass wrote: >> Raiments carries two Elizabethan Ren. corset patterns for $7 each. They >> have a complete kit that includes the patterns & all the materials to make >> it for $27. Also carry misc. corset bones, busks, etc., & a ton of >> historical patterns & reference books. Catalog is $5. >> >This kit sounds very interesting. Has anyone tried it? I have. It's basically a simple tudor corset that they have included everything you need save thread, sewing machine (or your hands) and grommet setter. The pattern itself is very nicely done. In my case I had to exchange all the bones for shorter ones as I am EXTREMELY short waisted, but Rainments did that with no hassle. Have fun. Martha Underwood SKA Johanna MacAnna -- Martha "Dream Dancer" Underwood ddancer@netcom.com Five(!) cats and a Needlework shop........Talk about an interesting life! Owner of: Natural Stitches: Knitting, Crochet, Cross-Stitch and more A Pittsburgh Needlework Shop ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 1995 10:55:52 U From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Oil cloth 7/20/95 10:54 AM Oil cloth Well, I just grabbed my dictionary, which defines oil cloth: A fabric that is treated with clay, oil and pigments to make it waterproof. I recall seeing oil cloth when I was very small. It was a coarse even-weave fabric, and looked a bit like cotton canvas. It was a sort of tannish color, and lighter on the surface, as though the waterproofing had settled down into the weave. Carole Newson-Smith@net.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 13:52:15 -0400 From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) Subject: plastron What's a plastron? Kathleen ------------------------------ From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 14:29:23 EST Subject: Re[2]: Corset stays I hate to refute Deo's endorsement of hoopskirting boning for stays, but I also have experience with it. It was used in an 18th century corset made for me by some one else. I am not so zoftig as Deo, but am not a teeny thing either, and I had problems with it. First of all, although the boning was wrapped top and bottom with tape, it still managed to rub through and put holes in the corset. Secondly, it RUSTED and discolored the corset. This was mainly because of sweat, since I handwashed it. It also cut me and dug into my skin. I have since replaced the hooping with steel boning, which is a bit heavier, but which I like a lot better. I can bend and twist the boning, so it is not rigid, but does give adequate support. You can obtain it from Laufer in New York (which is where Amazon Drygoods and others get it, I think). I will dig up the address and post it. They do mail order. You can get boning in 1/4" and 1/2" widths in lots of lengths, and in whatever quantity you want. It is coated and is rounded at the ends, which makes it less likely to poke through (it still does, but it doesnt jab you painfully). It helps if several people get together and make a big order. Laufer also sells the spring boning, which I don't think is good for much of anything other than shaping a garment; and twill casing for boning. I have also used bandsaw blades, cut to size and ground down so the teeth are gone; and caning for corset boning. I much prefer the steel boning. Other people use steel package strapping, which they cut to size and tape at the ends, and they highly recommend it. I have never tried it. But all in all, I don't think spending $10 or so for professional corset boning in a terrible hardship. It saves a lot of wear and tear on your nerves and fingers. Just my 2 cents worth. Kathleen (Alyson of Islay in the SCA) kathleen@anstec.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 15:29:53 CDT From: "Mather, Joan" Subject: Tudor Bodice and "Patternmaker" Melissa Hicks wanted to know how to keep sleeves from falling off her shoulders... When I took draping and pattern drafting years ago, my teacher told us we had three choices: 1) a low front with a high back neckline 2)high front with a low back neckline, or 3) toupee tape. Otherwise, body movement coupled with the forces of gravity win out. I saw a demo of a pattern drafting program called "Patternmaker" at the USITT Convention. It's a Windows based program that seems very easy to use IF you are familiar with the basic concepts of flat pattern drafting I bought a copy of the home version, but haven't had time to fully explore it. I don't want to endorse a product I haven't really used, but you can get more information by calling Patternmaker Software at (206) 644-8161 or (310) 393-8467. Joan Mather, Northeast Missouri State University ------------------------------ Subject: Empire dress patterns Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 17:23:35 -0700 From: Carol Ann Krug Greetings H-Costumers! My sister and I will be going to the JASNA AGM* in October. She would like to make an Empire period dress to wear, and has found the following patterns: Rocking Horse Farm 187 or 188 or 193 Period Impressions 460 I have made the Folkwear empire dress a few times, but have not used any of the above. Does anyone have experience with any of the above patterns, or have any other recommendations? Any general comments on Rocking Horse Farm vs Period Impressions? Thanks for sharing your experience! Carol Ann Krug * Jane Austen Society of North America Annual General Meeting ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:42:36 -0700 From: cjsmith@fantasy.Stanford.EDU (CJ Smith) Subject: Re: Oil cloth There are places that sell oilcloth coats for modern wear. Tilley Endurables, a Canadian company, sells oilcloth jackets; I can look up contact information when I get home if anyone's interested. I haven't the foggiest notion where they get their supply of oilcloth. Maybe they'd be willing to tell you? Good luck in your search! --CJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:03:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Rod Osiowy Subject: Rodo on network Hi, I'm looking for a resource line for costumes for High School productions. I do at least 2 major productions per year. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:11:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Katherine Cleaver Subject: Re: Fittingly Sew Demo I just received my copy of Threads magazine today (Sept 95 issue) and they have reviews of three "fitting" programs: DRess Shop 2.0, Personal Patterns and Fittinly Sew. The author of the article describes herself as an experienced dressmaker but a complete computer novice. I am not so organized that I can compare her comments to Diane Close's two recent posts about the same programs. The author concludes that they all have their strengths for certain uses and doesn't feel that she can say any of the three programs is the best. She is actually using Personal Patterns and finds Dress Shop requires too many measurements. ANyhow, a timely follow-up to Diane's posts! Kathy Cleaver School of Fashion Ryerson Polytechnical Univ 350 Victoria St Toronto, Ont. M5B 2K3 kcleaver@acs.ryerson.ca ------------------------------ End of Volume 348 -----------------------