From: Gretchen Miller Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 18:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 349, 7/25/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 349, July 25, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: What do people want to corset boning? On plastrons On oil cloth Physics of fading colors Questions about 1835 suit More about Patternmaker "Man's Coat 1730-1750" available ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 23:46:31 CDT From: bednarek@tidalwave.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097) Subject: Corsets Boning Considering I have access to sheet metal equipment a thaught just crossed my mind. Would there be a matket out there for stainless steel boning? And what lenghts and widths would most of the market desire? And what about stainless coated whith rubber to reduce sharps? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 01:27:10 -0400 From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) Subject: Re: plastron >Another name for a stomacher in 18th century clothing, or in earlier periods, >the piece, usually triangular, that you see on the center front of, say, >Italian renaissance gowns or 15th century "round gowns". It is usually highly >decorated or of a contrasting fabric/color/pattern than the gown. Sometimes it >is the front panel of an underdress, but frequently it seems to be a separate >piece sewn, pinned, or otherwise attached to both sides of an open-fronted >gown. Does this make sense? > >another Kathleen >kathleen@anstec.com > Which brings me to my next question. (great segue, huh?) How *do* you attach those suckers so they don't end up sitting on your chest like a cherry on a sundae? I want to eventually make early 17th century gowns, and this is the only thing I can't figure out. Thanks. Kathleen (Catriona) (Does this differentiate us? It used to be a fairly uncommon name...where did we all pop up from all of a sudden? ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 01:27:24 -0400 From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) Subject: Re: Oil cloth > 7/20/95 10:54 AM > Oil cloth >Well, I just grabbed my dictionary, which defines >oil cloth: >A fabric that is treated with clay, oil and pigments to >make it waterproof. > >I recall seeing oil cloth when I was very small. It was >a coarse even-weave fabric, and looked a bit like cotton >canvas. It was a sort of tannish color, and lighter on >the surface, as though the waterproofing had settled >down into the weave. > >Carole Newson-Smith@net.com > There is a big resurgence of oil cloth because of the popularity of Australian Outback coats. My boyfriend has one of these coats and a matching hat, which is where I got the idea of the cooler, waterproof cloak and hat. (for Scadian camping events) My boyfriend says that I can get special oil for retreated these coats, but I was hoping I could find a cheaper method of treating the cloth. Kathleen (Catriona) (clay, huh? Couldn't I just oil it then roll around in the mud...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:14:01 +0800 From: writan@iinet.com.au (Writan Consulting) Subject: oilcloth >From memory, oilcloth is treated with boiled linseed oil - that's how you make a Drizabone (sound cool - use the real word for those coats). You have to leave it to air for about a week - don't do this in an apartment! They get quite stiff and waxy. I think you treat them after you've made the thing, to avoid gumming up your machine, and so you can seal all the seams too. Dawn (who's also on this list) may know more - her husband made one once. /anne... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:28:29 -0400 From: Zachary Kessin Subject: Physics light and fading colors Got to thinking about this last night. With regard to the phisics of colors fading under light it works something like this. Light is composed of photons, discreate packets each with a set energy to them. The higher the frequency of the light the more energy, so violet and blue light is of higher energy than red light. When a photon hits something like fabric or the retna of your eye if it has enough energy it causes a reaction of some sort. However two photons of lower energy will do nothing. Since the whole thing is done in discrete packets it makes a lot of sense that it is irelivent if you have a bright light for a short time or a dim one for a long time. BTW this was all figured out by Albert Einstein in a 1905 paper. Its what they gave him the nobel prize for. --Zachary Kessin zkessin@bedlham.com x^n+y^n=z^n has no integer solutions other than 0 for n>2 I have a wonderful proof of this, but it won't fit in a .sig file. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:45:22 -0400 From: Pat Seppeler Subject: Oilcloth I remember seeing a mail-order source for oilcloth in the classifieds of SewNews a few months ago. As I remember, it was quite wide - like 90" or something. I will see if I still have the magazine tonight. (I share mine with my sister- in-law.) If would have been probably about October 1994. Pat Seppeler ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 9:25:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Deb Subject: RE: plastron/ stomachers > How *do* >you attach those suckers so they don't end up sitting on your chest like a >cherry on a sundae? One technique (not the only one): They really did pin them in place (18th century, anyway). Some of the books point out pin marks on the little tabs (which are there for pinning to) on the stomacher. Pin the stomacher to either the corset or the gown, though the gown is easier to pin into if the corset is fully boned. When you are wearing body armor ... er, a corset ... you aren't going to be bending and poking yourself on those straight pins anyway, so they aren't a problem! Deb Baddorf baddorf@fnal.gov ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 9:39:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Deb Subject: RE: Oil cloth If historical accuracy isn't important for this project, you can treat canvas (and presumably other cloth) with Thompson's water seal. I do my tents this way. You can brush it on. I prefer (except for the expense of buying enough cans of the Thompsons) to pour it on the fabric, and let the fabric absorb as much as it wants. Again, you need several days of GOOD ventilation. Hang the item in the garage, and blow a Big Fan on it for a few days. Just a thought ..... deb baddorf@fnal.gov ------------------------------ From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 11:05:45 EST Subject: Corset boning Yesterday I said I got my corset boning from Laufer. Here's the citation: L. Laufer & Co., Inc. 115 West 27th St. NY, NY 10001 Phone: (212) 242-2345 or (800) 334-9906 FAX: (212) 255-3950 Hours 9:30-4:30 M-F Contact person: Jack Laufer Corset supplies, etc. Free catalog. Accepts mail & phone orders. $50 minimum [get your friends together to make a big order] No storefront. Will ship to Canada. Accepts personal checks, no credit cards. Retail & wholesale. Information is from "The Whole Costumer's Catalogue, 11th Edition",Karen L. Dick, editor, CBTB Press, Box 207 MAin Street, Beallsville, PA 15313-0207. $15.00 and well worth it! Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:37:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Corsets On Thu, 20 Jul 1995 Staylace@aol.com wrote: > Spandex tubing, easily fashioned, works very well. Lingerie and other > delicate fabrics, while very pretty, tend to rip. Um ... for what? I may have missed something, but I thought we were talking about historical corsets. Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 11:51:09 EST Subject: Re[2]: plastron/ stomachers I found in some cases that the pins don't hold, especially if you are using really soft 18th century brass pins. So I sometimes sew industrial-strength skirt hooks and eyes (the long, flat kind) on the stomacher and bodice (hooks on the bodice, bars/eyes on the stomacher) so that the stomacher stays where it's supposed to, then I pin over the hooks with brass pins. Looks absolutely authentic and won't give out on you. I saw 18th century gowns where the stomacher (already attached to the corset) was basted to the bodice. Don't know if this was really done, or if it was done for the purpose of exhibit. Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 09:42:02 PDT From: Sue Wall Subject: 1835 Suit I am working on a 1835 suit. I have got my vest pattern graded up and am now working on the jacket pattern. Where can I find info on making mens patterns. I have tried the FAQ lists and have gotten several books through the Libaray. But they are all women's textbooks!!! So I am looking for a mens pattern making textbook. This project sure has been teaching me many things. I am enjoying the challenge of redrawing these patterns. Any help would me appreciated. ---- --------------------------------- Name: Sue Wall E-mail: Sue Wall Date: 07/21/95 Time: 09:42:02 This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Staylace@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:43:03 -0400 Subject: Valid Underpinnings & corsets [In a recent response to my recommendation of the use of latex tubing to protect the skin and corset, Heather admonished me by saying (paraphrase) "Are we not taling about historical uses here?"] Come now, Heather. I vouchsafe that many, many of you folks who use the corset for historical (shaping of gown) purposes give much thought to the authenticity of your drawers and camisoles. (I am sure, however, that many of you DO (I do!). ~ Leads to an interesting idea for comment: How many of you DO care. How many DON't? Out of sight, out of concern? Or is the truth more important? More power to you, Heather Rose! Tom Lierse Long Island Staylace Association ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 10:39:01 TZ Subject: Re: Oil cloth Oil cloth | >Well, I just grabbed my dictionary, which defines | >oil cloth: | >A fabric that is treated with clay, oil and pigments to | >make it waterproof. Well, close. Actually, it's a mixture of wax and oil (linseed, I believe). | My boyfriend says that I can get special oil for retreated these | coats, but I was hoping I could find a cheaper method of treating the cloth. The "reproofing cream" is not just oil, and it isn't all that expensive -- about $10 for a big can, which will do much more than a single coat. Most manufacturers recommend reproofing a coat once a year, but that's probably on the conservative side -- there's no need to rush out and do it unless the coat actually starts to leak. ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 11:25:01 TZ Subject: Re: Corset stays | The nice thing about this [hoop wire] over purchased stays is that you can cut them | to custom lenghts. The purchased stays come in 1" or 1/2" increments, | depending on where you get them. Metal bones (stays) can also be cut to length. After cutting, you need to round and smooth the cut end and dip it in "tip solution" to cover the metal. This is the same white paint that covers the ends of the metal bones when you buy them. You can buy tip solution from most corsetry suppliers, but you can get it much cheaper from a hardware store. Hardware stores call this solution "tool dip." It is used for marking tools so they don't get lost, and therefore comes in orange and other bright, dayglow colors instead of white. This shouldn't be a problem, in most cases, since the boning won't show through the corset anyway (and certainly not through the bodice you where over it). | You can also get this same type of boning encased in plastic (then you | can wash your ENTIRE corset without having to remove/replace the bones | each time). This should also be true with the readymade bones if you dip the ends after you cut them. (Though I'm not sure I'd want to put metal bones in the washing machine -- being a coward, I'd probably try handwashing myself.) ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 11:33:46 TZ Subject: Re: Corsets | Raiments carries two Elizabethan Ren. corset patterns for $7 each. They | have a complete kit that includes the patterns & all the materials to make | it for $27. Also carry misc. corset bones, busks, etc., & a ton of | historical patterns & reference books. Catalog is $5. And readymade corsets in several standard sizes. I can't speak to the way they fit, of course. ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 11:46:09 TZ Subject: RE: Re[2]: Corset stays | I hate to refute Deo's endorsement of hoopskirting boning for stays, but I also | have experience with it. It was used in an 18th century corset made for me by | some one else. I am not so zoftig as Deo, but am not a teeny thing either, and | I had problems with it. First of all, although the boning was wrapped top and | bottom with tape, it still managed to rub through and put holes in the corset. You can buy little U-shaped caps to cover the ends of hoop wire. These should work much better than tape. They won't solve your other problems, of course, but if do use hoop wire, there's no reason why you shouldn't use them -- they cost pennies apiece, and anyone who carries the wire should have them. | You can get boning in 1/4" and 1/2" widths in | lots of lengths, and in whatever quantity you want. It is coated and is rounded | at the ends, which makes it less likely to poke through (it still does, but it | doesnt jab you painfully). People who make lots of corsets have told me this only happens if you use cotton. Linen is a bit more expensive, but it's stronger and will prevent poking through. ------------------------------ From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: Patternmaker Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Joan Mather wrote: > I saw a demo of a pattern drafting program called "Patternmaker" at the > USITT Convention. It's a Windows based program that seems very easy to > use IF you are familiar with the basic concepts of flat pattern drafting > I bought a copy of the home version, but haven't had time to fully > explore it. I don't want to endorse a product I haven't really used, > but you can get more information by calling Patternmaker Software at > (206) 644-8161 or (310) 393-8467. As someone else on the list mentioned earlier (sorry, I accidently deleted the reference, so I can't remember exactly who it was), this month's Threads magazine has a review of the most common pattern drafting computer software programs. They don't review Patternmaker but at the beginning of the magazine in the "letters" column they do mention it. They say, in part: The only computer-aided software we're aware of for home sewers who want to draft patterns from scratch rather than from a list of measurements is _Patternmaker_ ... [snip ... Home version ($129 plus $5.50 S&H) ... [snip] ... Expert version ($1200 postpaid), which adds grading and several other features for professional use. [snip, rest of brief response is on using commercial drawing programs.] So please do post a review to the list, Joan, when or if you get a chance to play with it a while! I think a lot of use would be interested to see how it compares to the other measurement-based programs. -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch all day. :-) ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 1995 16:01:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Library - Vineland Research Station Subject: Parks Canada Man's Coat, 1730-1750 Hi everyone: As promised (or part of it) - the 1/4 scale pattern "Man's Coat, 1730-1750: a visual guide to cut and construction is available for $13.00 Canadian from: Fortress of Louisbourg Volunteer Association C/O Irma Murray P.O. Box 418 Louisbourg, Nova Scotia Canada B0A 1M0 Darn! I see I forgot to ask my husband if that included mailing costs! This isn't my time period, and I've only just glanced at it, but it's very professionally presented and offers altervatives in details. All in all, with the exchange rate you " 'Merkin" re-enactors and costumers will make a good investment. Sheridan Alder ------------------------------ From: DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:23:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: 1835 Suit Norah Waugh's _The Cut of Men's Clothes_ has patterns for many suits from the 19th C., drawn to a (relative) scale. This book has just come back into print in an oversized paperback format, so you may be able to order it through a local bookstore (I don't know the price). However, many libraries have copies of the older (identical) edition. I would certainly look at it before I bought it. Hope this helps! Denise Zaccagnino Lady Deonora Ridenow in the SCA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:21:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "B.M. O'Brien" Subject: Re: Corset stays Hi there. I am a semi-lurker on this list. I have 4 corsets in the last 5 years. All of them are still in existence. I have been reading this thread with a small amount of dread. Being fairly well endowed (okay, don't laugh THAT hard Kat). I cringe at the thought of using such a supple wire as hoop wire. I can't believe that it will afford the proper support or be able to last very long with wear. All of my corsets (Elizabethan) are made with sprung steel "bones" from Greenberg and Hammer out of New York. Each corset has a different number of bones (gotta try out different styles). My favorite, now almost 3 years old, is completely boned across the front with 1/4" bones. I like the support and it gives me the proper look (Gee mom, I can see my lap when I sit down). G&H bones come in several different lengths (12"-17") and widths (1/4", 1/2"). I have cut these (actually broken them with a pair of plyers), used masking tape to cushion the end, and I have bones working out of only one of my corsets (the original one I made using no inner lining on the fabric). Just one word of warning.....if you get a G&H catalog, its "dangerous". It has all sorts of really cool sewing stuff (heavy duty hook & eye, white tip dip, hoop wire, etc). Their products are high quality and no (or low) minimum order amount. On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, Edward Wright wrote: > | You can also get this same type of boning encased in plastic (then you > | can wash your ENTIRE corset without having to remove/replace the bones > | each time). > > This should also be true with the readymade bones if you dip the ends > after you cut them. (Though I'm not sure I'd want to put metal bones > in the washing machine -- being a coward, I'd probably try handwashing myself.) I have it, from a trusted friend and Laurel, that if your steel bones are sealed (dipped), your corset can go through the washing machine (she uses delicate cycle) without any problems. Don't dry it, though. Although, if you make a smock (chemise) to wear under it, you shouldn't have to wash it more than once or twice in its life. PS [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Peggy Sue O'Brien pegisue@u.washington.edu University of Washington Lady Orfhlaith Ingen Bhriain Infectious Diseases, Mailstop SJ-10 Barony of Madrone, An Tir Seattle, WA 98195 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:39:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Tracy Miller Subject: Re: Corset stays Has anyone tried using acrylic spray paint to rust-proof their stays? Seems like it would be quick and economical, but I haven't tried it. Tracy ------------------------------ End of Volume 349 -----------------------