From: owner-h-costume-digest (Historic Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: Historic Costume Digest V3 #155 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Historic Costume Digest Saturday, August 5 1995 Volume 3, Number 155 Important Addresses: Submissions to the list: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/removes/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: RE: What do you wish you knew Re: French Farthingales Fire wipes out costume stock RE: What do you wish you knew Re: Real Kilts, Must Read. Re: Re[2]: Academic gown RE: What do you wish you knew Ahead of Fashion_ comedia Re: Chain Mail Knitting Re: 10th Century Costume Booklet catalogs Re: Shoes Re: Pattern making Re: What do you wish you knew SCA question Men's cost. idea --not mine!! Re: SCA question Re: SCA question WTD: Military Uniform Patterns Re: SCA question Real Kilts, Must Read Re: SCA question Re: Shoes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:22:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Cannon Subject: RE: What do you wish you knew On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Deb wrote: > Good point -- I'll put in a second vote for that. One rebels against putting 3 or 4 yards of width into a skirt (1779) "I'll look fat!". All that yardage makes it impossible to tell whether it's personal width or only fabric...and makes one look more graceful, in motion, standing or sitting. One begins to know why the sight of an ankle or a loose strand of hair was considered so appealing... . > And my tight bodice & corset are why I don't feel any hotter than I > do, on 95 degree days. There is no trapped hot air, and no sticky > skin-on-skin movement which you have in modern "loose" tops.--Deb Baddorf I do not agree...I prefer a leine, which covers a lot of me loosely and does not allow much skin-skin contact. The dead air space acts as insulation. Ask someone from the Middle East who wears traditional attire. That's IMHO. Thanks for letting me put in my 2 pence.. Carol J. Bell Cannon cjcannon@ucdavis.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 11:26:33 TZ From: Edward Wright Subject: Re: French Farthingales | I believe that Ashelford's book on the visual history of clothing (16th | century) shows a woman wearing the cartwheel farthingale and refers to it as | the "French fasthingale." Does Ashelford cite any sources for that name? It seems most likely that this is an error that cropped up in some (modern) costume book, and then propagated from one to another. It's also possible that "French farthingale" changed its meaning over time or was used differently in different localities. However, I won't assume that was the case unless we can trace this usage to at least one primary source. I have frequently seen the distinction made between | the "regular" or cone-shaped hoop ("Spanish") and the cartwheel ("French"). The | roll has been referred to as a "bumroll." I know this further confuses the | issue, Actually, not. Linthicum, Arnold, and others say that "bum roll" was the vulgar term for French farthingale. Just as "jock strap" is the vulgar term for "athletic supporter" today. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 13:11:21 -0600 (MDT) From: "Carol E. Newby" Subject: Fire wipes out costume stock Fellow Costumers, Here at the Univ. of New Mexico we recently lost a large portion of our costume stock to a fire. The building is being remodeled this year and the fire appears to have started when a spark from a welding torch or other similar instrument, slipped through a tiny crack in the floor and ignited the costumes stored beneath the other theatre. The dept. is looking for donations of "Historical" Costumes. If you or anyone you know would like to make a donation to the dept, or would like more information, you can call or write to the dept. chair, Jim Linnell at the following address/phone number: James Linnell Chair, Dept. of Theatre and Dance University of New Mexico Albuquerque, NM 87131 (505)277-4332 thanks, Carol * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Unless you are the lead dog, /\_/\ The view is always the same." > < > ^ ^ < source: bumper sticker >(_o_)< U ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 15:03:39 -0500 (EST) From: "D. R. Leed" Subject: RE: What do you wish you knew It's amazing how much fabric can go into a full, floor-length skirt. I wanted one of those dazzlingly full circle skirts on my cotehardie, and had to go back twice to buy more fabric. Of course, it doesn't help that I'm nearly six feet. As to corsets, I agree thoroughly. My friends look at me as if I'm crazy when I pack corset and bodice for Pennsic, but it honestly is comfortable. ============================= C Code C Code Run Run Code Run Run Dammit Run ============================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 17:44:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Kerri Potratz Subject: Re: Real Kilts, Must Read. On Thu, 3 Aug 1995 SyRilla@aol.com wrote: > To anyone interested in authentic tartan wear. Have I found something very > interesting. In a bridal magazine named "Bliss the Magazine for Scottish > Brides", I found this and few other advertisements for tartan wear. I'll I was wondering where you got this magazine.. Do you have an address that I could write to to get it? I'm curious!! thanks Kerri Potratz kpotratz@sunfish.usd.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 17:54:21 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Academic gown Kathleen wrote: :Also, in answer to the question about academic gowns, "The Evolution of :Fashion" has a [simplified] pattern for what we now know as an academic gown. I :believe it is one of the men's 13th century patterns. I can look it up this :weekend. If you have or can get a copy of the book, and look thru it, near the :beginning of the book, you should be able to recognize it. Another source for what became academic gowns is Juan d'Alcega's Tailor's Pattern Book 1589. Some of the ones in Janet Arnold are from there. Robert Trump also has a breakdown on how to make them from scratch. I don't remember the name of the book offhand, but last I heard Amazon Drygoods carried it. I think it was the Roman Gown. Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 18:45:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: RE: What do you wish you knew On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, D. R. Leed wrote: > It's amazing how much fabric can go into a full, floor-length skirt. I > wanted one of those dazzlingly full circle skirts on my cotehardie, and > had to go back twice to buy more fabric. Of course, it doesn't help that > I'm nearly six feet. It's most efficient if use use the authentic lots-of-gores cut; then you can get pretty close to a circle in the skirt with only twice your height in modern fabric widths. (That's one of my big selling points when I'm trying to convince people to use more historical patterns.) Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 19:00:12 PDT From: Allan Terry Subject: Ahead of Fashion_ I recently posted an ad for a book I received for review, but already owned. Many people were interested; I sold the book to the first one who replied. However, the book is still available from the publisher at (I think) about the same price. The book is _Ahead of Fashion: Hats of the 20th Century_, by Dilys E. Blum. It is a catalog for an exhibit at the Philadelphia Musuem of Art, published in 1993. It is quite a nice book, with brief but informative essays and 70 good color photos. The publisher is: Publications Department Philadelphia Museum of Art PO Box 7646 Philadelphia, PA 19101-7646 When the museum submitted the review copy, they did not submit price information (or else the editor didn't pass it on to me). I bought my copy in 1993, so do not precisely remember the price. I think it was $8 plus UPS shipping. But I'd suggest verifying this before sending the museum a check. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 16:11 WET From: bach@lava.net (Terry A. Bach) Subject: comedia Hi out there! I was wondering if anyone out there could help me! Now my director is thinking about doing a play in the "Comedia" style of Italy. I'm not exactly sure what this means. If anyone has a reference for me, as to what the costumes would look like, I'd be eternally grateful. Also, if anyone knows of anything on the WWW! Thanks in advance, Laura Bach ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 19:17:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "William M. Sunlin" Subject: Re: Chain Mail Knitting Has anyone ever made a chailmail-making machine? I'd imagine it would be--well, doable. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 19:36:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "William M. Sunlin" Subject: Re: 10th Century Costume Booklet At last someone who's interested in the earlier stuff. Farthingale and codpieces... Ah well. I recreated Viking battles in Maryland. For men it's doubly difficult to make a costume. Most single men rarely have access to a sewing machine (some wind up sewing the old fashioned way). Most boks I find concerning historical costume, are slanted towards women's clothing. There just seem to be more dress patterns than tunics and such... You must be familiar with that excellent book, Clothing in Anglo-Saxon England? In a word, yes, I'd like to help with your book's circulation. I'm based in San Jose, CA right now, if you need an "agent". My quest is for the Thorsbjerg tunics, thou I've only seen photos of them. Would you know of any monographs that offer measurements of fabric and the skeletons? Looking forward to read your response! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 21:03:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurine Roller Subject: catalogs I am a chautauquan specializing in portraying women's history and am always looking for good sources for patterns. I do use Amazon and have also found an ad for Vintage Sewing Patterns. Has anyone out there used Vintage? How do you like it and are there any other companies you can recommend. Also in earlier postings there was a mention of the San Hose Historical Museum Costume shop. Does anyone out there have an address and/or phone number for the store? Any help is appreciated. Thanks. Maurine Roller Subject: Re: Shoes On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Edward Wright wrote: > Does anyone know a good source for historical shoes, especially for > men? I've seen Amazon Dry Goods' shoe catalog, but the prices are > fairly high and I'm reluctant to lay out that kind of money without > being able to see the quality of the shoes (or even the leather). Has > anyone here ordered any of these shoes? If so, can you comment on the > quality of the materials, workmanship, and service you received? Does > anyone have any other sources to recommend? > Yes. If you can find a book by Margreth Hald (she's Danish). Her patterns are mostly of feminine footgear, and are broken into 3 types: boots, shoes and slippers. Here patterns are actual layouts of the musuem artifacts. But like an Amercian Indian moccasin, they are basically folded around the foot in question, and sewed into place. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 19:50:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "William M. Sunlin" Subject: Re: Pattern making How did they do it in the old days? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 20:30:56 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: What do you wish you knew D.R. Leed wrote: :As to corsets, I agree thoroughly. My friends look at me as if I'm crazy :when I pack corset and bodice for Pennsic, but it honestly is comfortable. I found that I have rivulets of sweat when I wear things like chitons, but I'm cool and comforable in my hoops. I manufacture my own breeze and there's no fabric sticking to me. Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 95 00:02:17 CDT From: bednarek@tidalwave.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097) Subject: SCA question Iknow this is not the proper place but there seem to be a few SCA people here so perhaps someone may answer a question for me. From what I've seen all SCA chapters seem to dwell on England, Schotland, Ireland, and Wales. Ate there any main land European Chapters? And if so what about Eastern European chapters? And one more question is it common to be isn a chapter that centers around a georagaphicial w`area which is not in your personal ancestary? dennis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Aug 1995 00:50:11 EDT From: bglickman@eckert.acadcomp.monroecc.edu Subject: Men's cost. idea --not mine!! Years ago I went to The Stratford Festival in Canada. The play was Julius Caesar. The CD (cost.designer) needed a fast change costume for after the Ides of March but also ok for the rest of the play. From what I saw I theorize the following: a panel of stiff material forming a yoke and coming down in front and back about 6". This was tiled, and had a lip that might have been lined with velcro, or rubber cemented... The undamaged fabric could be left on and the bloody parts pulled off quickly and replaced. The costume then consisted of this unit worn over a tunic with laced up sandals, etc. In my mind's eye, I see a militaristic toga-like outfit. Stratford has a nice little museum and they always feature something about the Festival's costuming. It was a favorite hangout for me. They may also have archived photos, programs, etc. or the Festival itself may have info. (If anyone out the is with the Festival -many thanks for good times!) BG B) - --------------------------------------------------------=|=|=|=|=|-------- Bonnie Glickman |=|=|=|=|= Bio. Dept.; Monroe Community College =|=|=|=|=| Rochester, NY 14610 phone: (716) 292-2725 |=|=|=|=|= email: bglickman@eckert.acadcomp.monroecc.edu =|=|=|=|=| ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Aug 1995 01:42:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Captain Elvis Sputnik Kid Subject: Re: SCA question > Iknow this is not the proper place but there seem to >be a few SCA people here so perhaps someone may answer a question >for me. > > From what I've seen all SCA chapters seem to dwell on >England, Schotland, Ireland, and Wales. Ate there any main land >European Chapters? And if so what about Eastern European chapters? > >And one more question is it common to be isn a chapter that centers >around a georagaphicial w`area which is not in your personal ancestary? > >dennis From the limited information I have there are SCA groups on continental Europe...the kingdom is known as Drachenwald (or at least one of the kingdoms, I'm not sure if there are more), but the groups are more spread out than in the Brittish Isles and the U.S. One thing you may want to try, if you live near a U.S. military base you should be able to contact someone in the SCA (from what I've heard there are usually a few members at all overseas bases) even if that group is not very convenient for you to get to they may have more information about groups in your local area... As for being in a group "that centers around a geographical area which is not in your personal ancestary" I think you'll find that (at least this is what I've observed in the U.S.) members study times that interest them whether or not the area is in their ancestry (or even if it's local) For instance, I'm in the Midwest and my two areas of study are Ireland and colonial Brazil. Of those only Ireland is "in my blood" so to speak. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 95 03:20:18 CDT From: bednarek@tidalwave.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097) Subject: Re: SCA question :> :> > I originally wrote: :> > I know this is not the proper place but there seem to :> >be a few SCA people here so perhaps someone may answer a question :> >for me. :> > :> > From what I've seen all SCA chapters seem to dwell on :> >England, Schotland, Ireland, and Wales. Ate there any main land :> >European Chapters? And if so what about Eastern European chapters? :> > :> >And one more question is it common to be isn a chapter that centers :> >around a georagaphicial w`area which is not in your personal ancestary? :> > :> >dennis :> Captain Sputnik Kid replied :> From the limited information I have there are SCA groups on continental :> Europe...the kingdom is known as Drachenwald (or at least one of the kingdoms, :> I'm not sure if there are more), but the groups are more spread out than in the :> Brittish Isles and the U.S. One thing you may want to try, if you live near a :> U.S. military base you should be able to contact someone in the SCA (from what :> I've heard there are usually a few members at all overseas bases) even if that :> group is not very convenient for you to get to they may have more information :> about groups in your local area... Woops I did not mean the georaphicial location of the chapter but the location that they are studying. I'm in the Milwaukee area and the only SCA groups I know of in this area study the Scotish exclusively. The areas I'd like to study are more Eastern European mainly Germany, Poland, and Russia. However the English and French also intrest me they are not of ancestorial tree. :> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 04:42:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Wells Subject: WTD: Military Uniform Patterns I am looking for sources for men's military uniform patterns. I am not too accomplished at drafting my own patterns, but I am learning. American, French, German and/or Russian would be fine (WW1 or WW2)... or any ideas would be helpful. Thanks Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 04:57:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Tina Carney Subject: Re: SCA question I suppose it depends where you live, but I know MANY personas that aren't celtic. Sometimes a group will tend toward one style. If you are looking for specific help the group chatelaine should be able to help or you may e-mail me and I will look through my sources for you. - -Lady Brighid the Ageless baronial herald Andelcrag living in the canton of Rimsholt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 05:57:15 -0400 From: alc1@psu.edu (Ann L. Carras) Subject: Real Kilts, Must Read Please post the info for "Bliss the Magazine for Scottish Brides"! It sound great. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 06:02:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Judy Gerjuoy Subject: Re: SCA question On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097 wrote: > > Iknow this is not the proper place but there seem to > be a few SCA people here so perhaps someone may answer a question > for me. > > From what I've seen all SCA chapters seem to dwell on > England, Schotland, Ireland, and Wales. Ate there any main land > European Chapters? And if so what about Eastern European chapters? The SCA does pre 1600 Western Europe, according to our charter. That mans you are free to do main land europe, and even eastern europe - I know a number of people whose personas fit in those catagories Local chapters may have individuals who may be only interested in or two cultures, but the chapter itself should not have any restrictions. If it does, let me know! If you would like some basic SCA info, e-mail me privataly, and I will answer help you in anyway I can. > And one more question is it common to be isn a chapter that centers > around a georagaphicial w`area which is not in your personal ancestary? People in the SCA develop personas/interests in any geographic area or time period that they please. There are no restrictions. I know of blonde, blue eyed Japanese, and Blacks whose persona is Viking. It is what the person wants to do, not what his/her mundane background is. I hope this helps - feel free to e-mail me privately with more questions. Jaelle (who has been doing things in the SCA, and has been an officer of one type or another for more years than she will admit) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 08:18:33 -0400 From: KenDawe@aol.com Subject: Re: Shoes In a message dated 95-08-03 19:18:40 EDT, edwright@microsoft.com (Edward Wright) writes: >Does anyone know a good source for historical shoes, especially for >men? and BPH3213@ACS.TAMU.EDU (Bryan) said: >I've heard Fugawee carries a decent assortment of shoes and shoe buckles. >Has anyone had experience with this company? How is their stuff? >Bryan To which I reply: Not personally, but I've heard their stuff is good, and "reasonably priced", as well. the other source I know of is Tidy's Storehouse. The Fugawee Corporation 3127 Corrib Dr., #5 Tallahasee, FL 32308 1-800-749-0387 $3.00 Tidy's Storehouse 1102 Hopewell Rd. Oxford, PA 19363-1149 610-932-8441 $3.00 Note that both cater primarily to buckskinners and Colonial era re-enactors. Another place I've seen advertised prominently, but have no experiance with, even second-hand, is: Jas. Townsend & Son, Inc. PO Box 415 Pirecton, IN 46562 219-594-5852 $2.00 ------------------------------ End of Historic Costume Digest V3 #155 ************************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!