From: owner-h-costume-digest (Historic Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: Historic Costume Digest V3 #158 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Historic Costume Digest Wednesday, August 9 1995 Volume 3, Number 158 Important Addresses: Submissions to the list: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/removes/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Horizontal Boning in 18th Century Stays Commercial Patterns Re: SCA question Wet Nurse Re: help! Feather mites--! Boning Source Recomendation Tights vs Hose and a codpiece Drizabone Re: SCA question Re: SIGH Standards of Beauty Re: Pattern making Pattern drafting systems 1880's garment making book Re: How to get on the digest or unsubscribe... Pattern making feather treatment RE: 12C Italian (ordering books) Re: corset bones, back necklines, cord, hose Re: Pattern drafting systems Re: comedia ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 17:46:05 -0400 From: Carodec@aol.com Subject: Horizontal Boning in 18th Century Stays I am about to start work on a Period Impressions pattern for half-boned 1760's-1770's stays. These stays have rows of horizontal boning at the top front which must take and hold a curved shape (if you laid the stays down on a table, they would not lie flat; the front curve would stand up from the table). Does anyone have any ideas on the most suitable boning material to use? I'm leaning toward a thin, steam-bent piece of wood, but would really welcome other suggestions. Has anyone else used this pattern? Have any advice on its eccentricities? Thanks. --- Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 95 15:21:41 PDT From: Erin Harvey Moody Subject: Commercial Patterns Maurine: I have had consistent luck with Past Patterns Company patterns. They are sold via Amazon Dry Goods, Lacis, and Raiments. The San Jose Historical Mu seum does sell some patterns and will order for you. They also carry Past Patt erns. I don't have their number but you can call directory assistance (San Jos e is a 408 area code I believe). The curator/manager just took my corset class a couple of weeks ago, I know you will find her very helpful. Her name is Julie and her specialty is millinary. Hope this helps. Erin ------------------------------ Date: 7 Aug 1995 08:58:17 U From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Re: SCA question Reply to: RE>SCA question Dennis, You must not have discovered the Dark Horde. The last weekend of July I was at an SCA encampment, and there was a group of "Mongols" across the way. There are individuals I know who have chosen a persona from Byzantium, the Middle East, and Japan. There don't seem to be enough of them to form individual households. But I can only speak for Northern California, the area I am familiar with. Carole Newson-Smith (SCA: Cordelia Toser) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 95 13:52 PDT From: mholland@on-ramp.ior.com Subject: Wet Nurse Does anyone have an understanding of to what extent the popular notion of wet nursing had on the development of neckline styles in Europe in the 17th-19th centureis? I ran across an interesting book on the subject this weekend and discovered fascinating facts about Renaissance and Rococco thought. It seems as if it was common for wet nurses to "caravan" or to have a form of a "bus" for transporting their charges back and forth. Is there a whole hearldry of style that went along with this practice? And how did that style bleed over into the mainstreem of fashion? Just curious, Sharon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 16:53:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Wells Subject: Re: help! Feather mites--! I will have to check with the museum conservation folks to see how they deal with such infestations. I would be reluctant to put the feathers in the microwave or to use a dryer on them since they are organic material, subject to deterioration by light, heat, and atmospheric conditions. If you have a local museum or conservation group (most states have a historic preservation assn in the state capital), they would be a good resource for asking such a question. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 15:08:32 -0400 (EDT) From: cpecourt@mhv.net Subject: Boning Source Recomendation Hello all With all the recent posts on boning and where to get it I decided to drop my two cents in and highly recomend the people at Hedgehog Handworks. The woman there is very nice and their service is quick and pleasant! They have the spring steel boning as well as the spiral boning and everything in the way of sewing supplies, millniry (sp?) supplies, embroidery supplies and more. No patterns, but lots of books. Their address is PO Box 45394, Westchester CA 90045 They take credit card orders over the phone, no minimum and no surcharge. THeir ## is (310)670-6040 I highly recommend them, all my dealings with them have been fantastic. Thats my 2 cents :-) Chantal ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 21:52:19 PDT From: ke6isf@outlander (Dennis Allen Carr) Subject: Tights vs Hose and a codpiece Catriona: Thank you, despite your blushed face that was visible on my 286! =D Checked into it after finally deciding to do some homework on the period. In a book pub'd by Eyewitness Books called "Costume" (ISBN 0-679-81680-1), the following quote is found: "A decorated codpiece (which sometimes doubled as a purse)".... Ah..... I think I'll pass on that, thank you. Fa! Still not part of the SCA but interested anyway, KE6ISF uublip!outlander!ke6isf@ccss.com Just say NO.J.! The only true Ben Franklin look-alike! Driving people insane since 1974.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 15:12:48 +0800 From: writan@vianet.net.au (Writan Consulting) Subject: Drizabone Edward Wright wrote: | >From memory, oilcloth is treated with boiled linseed oil - | that's how you make a Drizabone (sound cool - use | the real word for those coats). No, no. Drizabone is not "the real word" for an oilskin coat -- it's just a trademark for one particular brand. ********************************************* Yes, Drizabone *is* one particular brand; but there are lots of instances where a brand name became the accepted name of an object. Besides, why on earth would I call it an 'Australian Drover's Coat'? That's just what Folkwear call it. If you want to be really pedantic, you could call it an oilskin, but that includes other types of jackets too. /anne... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 95 09:45:00 EST From: "Hicks, Melissa" Subject: Re: SCA question >Let me know if you'd like a copy of my Eastern Europe/Middle East/Asia >booklist (this goes for anyone out there. I've been busy since the >last verion I posted here!). I'll be bringing copies to Pennsic as >well. If you (and other interested people) are going to Pennsic, >there's a class you might want to take: > > ...eliz > (Yelizaveta Medvedeva) Yes please, there are a few newcomers in my local SCA group that are trying to handle this style of research at the moment. Unfortunately they do not seem to be having much success. A list like this might just give them the help-along they need. Melissa Hicks SCA: Meliora de Curci mah@amsa.gov.au ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 22:22:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Findlay Subject: Re: SIGH I'd like that information too Best Wishes Robin ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Walter Robin Findlay Associate Professor of Theatre Missouri Western State College 4525 Downs Drive St. Joseph, Mo. 64507 Phone: 816-271-4452 E-mail: findlay@mwsc.edu Fax: 816-232-0978 is that all there is........ peggy lee On Sun, 6 Aug 1995 b.mai@genie.geis.com wrote: > > I must have written soemthing down wrong, or I'm an idiot or > something. What is the address to send to, and the command to get > this list on digest? I asked Diane, but I got it wrong somehow, > 'cause my messages keep bouncing back. > > Drowning in e-mail, > > Bruce > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 95 12:39:56 PDT From: Erin Harvey Moody Subject: Standards of Beauty In response to period beauty and Lillie Langtry: Every age has several types of beauty trends (just look at the range of ashion models today- Kate Moss to Cindy Crawford to Naomi Campbell). Lillie Langtry embodied many of the pre-Raphaelite ideals of beauty. You are right, many o f her photographs are not exceptional (although some are).It's in her portraits that her beauty was truly displayed. There are many, many paintings of Lillie Langtry (both as herself and her as a model in allegorical/theme paintings) as well as pencil drawings where you can see why her (Victorian) beauty was so famous. Biographical reports and contempoary writing also mention that her coloring was her most distinguishing/valued feature. She was said to have (naturally) red hair that was exceptionally lusturous, porceline/peaches and cream/translucent skin with a perfect complexion and used no makeup. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 19:55:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "William M. Sunlin" Subject: Re: Pattern making On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Allan Terry wrote: > How did they do pattern making in the old days? It depends greatly on what > you mean by the old days. I meant that in a sort of rhetorical manner. I don't think people 300 years ago used a computer (or even paper, for that matter). I saw something once about ethnic costume wherein live measurements were converted into clothing measurements (eg, chest measurement is 36" so torso size is 36+ something or x somwthing) rather than our current scheme of laying everything out. There's also favorite book of mine on costume in AngloSaxon England where the width of the loom equals the width of the garment, period. So where did we change to our present technique? Did it come with the Industrial Age? Just curious. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 95 16:32:26 PDT From: Allan Terry Subject: Pattern drafting systems I'm doing some research on 19th- and early 20th-century patent drafting systems, a subject that has always fascinated me. The authors of these systems provided a set of sizes (this is before pattern sizes were standardized), sometimes special drafting tools (which could take a variety of forms), and often books or magazines with patterns to be drafted with their system. If anybody on these lists has original drafting tools or publications, I'd be interested in seeing copies of them (I think some of the tools could be photocopied). Right now I'm looking at an early 20th-century tool used for _The American Garment Cutter_ and _The American Modiste_. I do have a copy of the patent application, but this does not fully explain the tool. But I'm interested in other tools and publications, too. I already have Claudia Kidwell's book _Cutting a Fashionable Fit_, which discusses such systems. Thanks, Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 17:51:04 -0500 (CDT) From: BPH3213@ACS.TAMU.EDU Subject: 1880's garment making book I haven't seen this and my library doesn't have it, but I thought some on the list might find it useful. I believe the only source for it is the Univ. of Chicago, but it's on microfilm so they might copy or loan it out. The original's in London. Bryan H. ___________________________________________________________________ ACCESSION: 27461560 TITLE: Garment making a treatise, embracing the whole subject of practical tailoring, giving special and detailed instructions upon the making of every modern garment made by tailors : a book of reference equally adapted for the cutting room or workshop / PLACE: London : PUBLISHER: J. Williamson, YEAR: ? 1880 1889 PUB TYPE: Book FORMAT: viii, 113 p., 7 leaves of plates : ill. ; 26 cm. NOTES: Microfilm. Chicago : University of Chicago Library, 1992. 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm. (MN 01390.1). SUBJECT: Tailoring. Garment cutting. OTHER: Williamson, J. (John) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 22:26:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Findlay Subject: Re: How to get on the digest or unsubscribe... I'd like to get on the digest list and off this one Best Wishes Robin ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Walter Robin Findlay Associate Professor of Theatre Missouri Western State College 4525 Downs Drive St. Joseph, Mo. 64507 Phone: 816-271-4452 E-mail: findlay@mwsc.edu Fax: 816-232-0978 is that all there is........ peggy lee On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Diane Barlow Close wrote: > > ... What is the address to send to, and the command to get > > this list on digest? I asked Diane, but I got it wrong somehow, > > To get the digest version, or to unsubscribe completely from the list, > send your request to Gretchen Miller via: > > h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu > > and she'll take care of it for you. > -- > Diane Close > close@lunch.engr.sgi.com > I'm at lunch all day. :-) > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 95 23:41:29 PDT From: Allan Terry Subject: Pattern making William, Although people didn't use a computer to make patterns 100 years ago, they certainly had paper patterns. There is evidence that starting in the 12th century, garment makers had roughly sized templates of pattern pieces, made of durable substances. By the end of the 14th century, most professional garment makers had sets of patterns. Publication of books containing patterns began in 1589 with Juan de Alcega's Libro de Geometrica Practica y Traca_. There was a proliferation of manuals with patterns and methods for drafting them, from the early 19th century through the early 20th. Magazine publication of patterns for amateurs (and professionals) started around the same time. I have several patterns for 1820s _detachable_ men's shirt collars, reprinted in the _Cutters' Research Journal_. The first graded and sized pattern patterns were produced beginning in the 1860s, by the Butterick company. McCall's pattern company was founded in the 1870s. There were many other Victorian paper pattern companies that have since gone out of business. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 17:41:25 -0500 (CDT) From: BPH3213@ACS.TAMU.EDU Subject: feather treatment According to my conservation literature, it is still recommened to wash feathers with water and a mild detergent. They can be air dried with a blower, but should use cool air. This keeps the barbules from sticking together. Rather than heat (alias the microwave mentioned) I would be more inclined to use the opposite. Freezing organics is commonly used to control insects. I don't recall the temp and time necessary, but I seem to think it was 48 hours at below the freezing point. The other method is to put the objects in a sealed container with biocide. We use Dowicide 1 (ortho-phenylphenol) which is, believe it or not, best obtained by buying a can of Lysol (tm). For storage, a sealed container is best, and if infestation is still a problem, moth balls work well, but aren't used much anymore as they are too toxic to humans. I don't recall what the chemical equivalent used now is. Now, having said all this I should confide I've never conserved a feather in the lab (though some have been through the conservation lab here at Tex. A&M). I have tried this on modern feathers with success though. Bryan H Baloo@tamu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 95 15:02:00 PDT From: "Tobey, Pam" Subject: RE: 12C Italian (ordering books) I ordered Norah Waugh's book through Borders last week. It cost $45 (yipes) and I got it in 3 days! It's a wonderful book!!!!!! BTW, I also ordered the Cut of Women's Clothes, also. It took 5 days, and cost $65! But they are both worth it for the wonderful reference materials and pattern diagrams, etc, they contain! Borders has been able to get most of what I bring them to find. And they smile when doing it and thank you when you're done. Tobey Tobeypam@washpost.com _______________________________________________________________________________ _ <<...remember their titles. The one that I have with me that devotes a great deal to males in general is Patterns for Theatrical Costumes, by Katherine Strand Holkeboer. ISBN number 0-89676-125-8, Drama Book Publishers New York, 29.95. It recommends Men's Garments by R.L. Davis same publisher, The Cut of Men's Clothes by Norah Waugh, London:Faber and Faber.. I know that this is a difficult book to get and if you are not a prof you cannot order it directly. Barnes and Noble will order them for you at the cover cost. It will take 6 weeks to get. Book Stop hates this publisher and refuses to order from them,...>> Ciao Ches ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 00:46:53 -0500 (CST) From: Cindy Johnson Subject: Re: corset bones, back necklines, cord, hose On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, June Russell wrote: > Thea wrote: > :Corset bones: Someone mentioned Greenberg & Hammer (NY) as a source but I > :didn't seementioned that they sell the steel boning in rolls. This is not > :mentioned in their catalog; you have to ask for it. It's sold by > :the pound, > :not the yard, but there's lots in a roll. Bought this way, you > :can cut every > > G&H Fall 1994 catalog page 4 lists steel hoop bonign $9.85 for a 12 foot > roll. I loved it when they started their 800 number (800-955-5135). Umm, Thea and June are talking about two different things. The steel boning in rolls is either 1/4" or 1/2" steel boning coated with white paint for making corsets. The steel _hoop_ boning is 1/2" wide hooping comprised of two flat steel wires encased in buckram (the wires are at the edges of the hooping) and specifically designed for hoops of whatever variety. I'd not recommend using it in a corset. And the steel boning (not listed in rolls, listed in cut sizes in the catalog) is far cheaper. Cindy Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 20:26:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Pattern drafting systems On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Allan Terry wrote: > I'm doing some research on 19th- and early 20th-century patent drafting > systems, a subject that has always fascinated me. The authors of these > systems provided a set of sizes (this is before pattern sizes were > standardized), sometimes special drafting tools (which could take a variety > of forms), and often books or magazines with patterns to be drafted with > their system. > > If anybody on these lists has original drafting tools or publications, I'd > be interested in seeing copies of them (I think some of the tools could be I have a fascinating contraption that I picked up at a garage sale that you might be interested in. It's a set of adjustable pattern-making ... "things" made out of brass strips with adjustable sliders marked according to various body measurements. (This is really hard to explain without pictures.) It's fairly self-explanatory -- each slider is numbered for the order you need to measure in and labeled as to what the measurement is (e.g. "front length less underarm", "hip", etc.). Several patent dates are marked on it: '85, '86 and '01. There are five pieces: front, side front, side back, back, and sleeve (obviously, it's for jackets or bodices). I've made a couple of garments based on it and simply using the settings according to your measurements seems to work fairly well -- although I'm large enough that I just barely make the end of some of the scales and a _few_ of the proportions seem to get messed up at that end. It's a really fascinating contraption. Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 10:19:11 -0400 From: eliz@world.std.com (Elizabeth Lear) Subject: Re: comedia See Related Subjects ............ 2 entries 3 Commedia Dellarte ..................................... 20 entries 4 Commedia Dellarte Exhibitions ......................... 1 entry 5 Commedia Dellarte History ............................. 1 entry 6 Commedia Dellarte History And Criticism ............... 6 entries 7 Commedia Dellarte Pictorial Works ..................... 1 entry 8 Commedia Dellarte Songs And Music ..................... 1 entry ..eliz ------------------------------ End of Historic Costume Digest V3 #158 ************************************** A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!