From: owner-h-costume-digest (Historic Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: Historic Costume Digest V3 #161 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Historic Costume Digest Friday, August 11 1995 Volume 3, Number 161 Important Addresses: Submissions to the list: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/removes/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Fireproof clothing for historic cooking Wish I knew when I was startin' out... Re: Wish I knew when I was startin' out... Re: Alcega's Tailors Pattern Book Other Medieval Groups Please take the time to respond correctly to Mr. Wrights shoe request Re: Wish I knew when I was startin' out... RE: Other Medieval Groups Intro/Old West Re: Please take the time to respond correctly to Mr. Wrights shoe request Re: Please take the time to respond correctly to Mr. Wrights shoe request patterns off pictures? Re: Other Medieval Groups ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 19:57:32 -0700 From: cynthia@caere.com Subject: Fireproof clothing for historic cooking I'm looking for, an unable to find a citation on, wool petticoats or skirts or aprons as a fire retardant fabric. It's true, wool smolders instead of bursting into flame like cotton & silk, but maybe it's so incredibly obvious, nobody had to write it down. While I usually "live" in 1840s Spanish California, I'm curious if anyone in ANY era has found similar documentation. Just hoping for a source ... --cin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 20:44:06 -0700 From: cynthia@caere.com Subject: Wish I knew when I was startin' out... For Elizabeth writing the "what I wish I knew" book: 1. Sewing machines were invented in the 1830s. Folks re-enacting eras from the dawn of time to approx 1870 should handsew most of their garments. This changes the "hang" of nearly everything. 2. Topstitching was not common until, oh say, 1870 (where upon it was posh to show off that you did have a sewing maching). 3. Sergers (overlock machines) are wonderous 20th century devices and can cut your project compleation time down. That said, here's some bits on the mechanics of using a sewing machine that I've picked up over the years. 1. Prewash fabric according to mfgr directions to remove sizing, compleat shrinkage and test color fastness. 2. Use a new machine needle for every project. A dull needle pulls threads in fabric. A bent one is the cause of many headaches. Spend the extra 30 cents. (Conversion to local monetary units is left as an exercise to the reader). 3. Wind bobbin thread slowly. It will twist & bind less if you do this. 4. Sewing machine thread comes on spools in a Z-twist. (Make this strange gesture: Point your index finger away from you, point your thumb straight up and your 3rd finger towards your left.) On most machines, the spool spins counter clockwise around the vertical axis. Load thread onto your machine so that the thread comes off the back of the spool toward the the tension (where your 3rd finger points). Pfaff users will find they have to rotate their hands to follow these directions. If you load the machine correctly the thread will not over twist and knot behind the needle. 5. Dont let loose thread get into the feed dogs. It will wrap around the bobbin case and jam the works. 6. When the machine gets stuck, jams or makes funny noises. STOP! Remove your project and check the action of the machine before continuing. Most of the time, the user has not followed steps 2, 3, 4 or 5 above. 7. Leave garments made of bias cut or heavy fabrics on hangers for a week before hemming. This will let the piece do most of it's stretch. 8. Rotary cutters are worth their weight in gold. Buy the mat, curved and straight edge rulers. Do CLOSE them after every cut. They are bare razors and will happily cut any fabric or finger that comes near them. It's ok to sweat & swear over your project, but a blood sacrifice is unnecessary. So much for technicalities. The best advice would be to start with a simple, compleatable task perhaps a basic shirt, smock, apron or chemise. Realize how long it has taken for you to become expert at your current field. Sewing, while humble, also takes time to master. --cin Cynthia Barnes Sr. Software Engr Caere Corporation 100 Cooper Court Los Gatos CA 95030 408.395.5148 x2224 internet: Cynthia@caere.com "Sorry I haven't been around much. I'm easily distracted by shiny objects." --The Tick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 22:15:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Alice Morgan" Subject: Re: Wish I knew when I was startin' out... Some of these comments reminded me to final add my two bits here. cynthia@caere.com said something close to this: > > For Elizabeth writing the "what I wish I knew" book: > > 1. Sewing machines were invented in the 1830s. Folks re-enacting > eras from the dawn of time to approx 1870 should hand sew most of > their garments. This changes the "hang" of nearly everything. According the Smithsonian collection video on civil war uniforms. Early 1860, hand sewing was considered superior to machine sewing. By 1865, the Army had reversed itself and machine sewing was considered superior. Most army uniforms were sewn by contract houses/workers and paid by the piece, based on grade. This was also about the time of the start of "standard" sizes, just from trying to clothe an army in a very short period of time. Part of the early lack of enthusiasm for machine stitching was that many of the early machines sewed a "chain stitch" rather than the lock stitch we are used to now. One break in a chain stitch seam and it pulls apart, like the chain stitch you sometimes find on the tops of dog/cat food bags. > 2. Top stitching was not common until, oh say, 1870 > (where upon it was posh to show off that you did > have a sewing machine). The early pattern companies published patterns for machine embroidery during this time, so you might find a lot of elaborate top-stitch patterns from this time period. For traditionally tailored garment, hand sewing for most of the garment was the norm probably tapering off between 1940 and 1970. This would find primarily in mens jackets and vests and overcoats or haute coutere (sp?) garments. Working with wool and doing the traditional stitches is very time consuming, but also very rewarding, with practice, you can hide an amazing amount of stitching by going only halfway through the garment. Its a good thing to do while watching TV. While tailoring techniques are not the best place to get started, if you are interested, the Singer book on Tailoring has some very good information about tailoring, covering from traditional to "speed tailoring". I personally prefer the traditional methods, but they take a _lot_ of time. After taking a tailoring class (couple years ago), I talked to mom, and she pulled out the materials from the tailoring class she took in the 50's. Times sure have changed... The fusible interfaces did not really come into use until probably late 70's or even later. > That said, here's some bits on the mechanics of using a sewing > machine that I've picked up over the years. > > 1. Pre-wash fabric according to mfgr directions to remove sizing, > compleat shrinkage and test color fastness. I pre-wash according to my worst nightmare of what might happen to the garment (ie: Hot water, high heat drier, twice, unless I'm willing to swear to myself that I will always guard this garment from anything other than hand washing. If the fabric won't take abuse, find out _before_ you put all the time and effort into making that fabulous garment. > 2. Use a new machine needle for every project. A dull needle > pulls threads in fabric. A bent one is the cause of many > headaches. Spend the extra 30 cents. (Conversion to local > monetary units is left as an exercise to the reader). Amen to this, In fact, don't be afraid to replace the needle in the middle of a garment if things just start to act funny. > 5. Dont let loose thread get into the feed dogs. It will wrap > around the bobbin case and jam the works. Get familiar with cleaning the feed dogs, use a brush or dry compressed air (don't blow into the machine, there is too much moisture in your breath) > 8. Rotary cutters are worth their weight in gold. Buy the > mat, curved and straight edge rulers. Do CLOSE them after every > cut. They are bare razors and will happily cut any fabric or > finger that comes near them. It's ok to sweat & swear over your > project, but a blood sacrifice is unnecessary. I keep my older rotary blades for cutting paper (patterns, and keep a fresh blade for nice expensive fabric). (or get two handles and keep one for paper only and the other for fabric. Use pattern weights (tuna cans work well, along with sewing notions) instead of risking trying to cut over a pin. Keep a small sharp pair of scissors handy for the close quarter cuts that you don't trust yourself with the rotary. Try to set up a cutting table that is a comfortable height for you. Table height is probably good, floor second and bed height the worse (in general) for your back. > So much for technicalities. > One thing to realize is that most sewers are their own worst critics. You see every mistake, seam that did not line up, pinch of fabric caught in seam, redone (for the 5th time) seam, etc. Most other people will not. they just see the end result. So don't be too hard on yourself. Practice, do the best you can, and remember that historically, not everyone could sew well, or afford to go someone that could sew well, so mistakes are period ;-). Granted if you are trying to portray someone with affluence, the standards do go up. > The best advice would be to start with a simple, compleatable task > perhaps a basic shirt, smock, apron or chemise. Realize how long > it has taken for you to become expert at your current field. > Sewing, while humble, also takes time to master. But make sure its a project you want to have, or the motivation will not be there. Alice ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 22:13:23 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: Alcega's Tailors Pattern Book :If I'm not mistaken, Robert Trump (who works for the St. Louis Opera :costume shop, btw), published a paperback book called _The Annotated :Arnold_, which deals with a garment he made up from Janet Arnold's :Patterns of Fashion (The one with the Elizabethan stuff, sorry I don't :remember the dates - it's long and thin with a brown cover). : :If he published one about Alcega I'd be very interested in any information. He published Drafting and Constructing a Simple Doublet & Trunkhose of the Spanish Renaissance (ISBN 0-9623719-2-0) which is based on Alcega and Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion: 1560-1620. He has also written one based, I believe, on Alcega's Roman Gown. I don't have that one (yet) so I can't give you an ISBN #. Knowing Bob, he probably has more as well by now. This is in addition to his Annotated Arnold. Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ Date: 11 Aug 95 09:52:00 BST From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Other Medieval Groups If the enquirer about groups that wear their costumes is interested, there are British re-enactment groups covering practically everything from Roman (Ermine Street Guard - who also do domestic Roman), Dark Ages Society, to the modern period. I know of a good 18th century group, but don't know of any more recent regular groups. There are plenty of medieval societies, of varying size and ability. English Civil War Society and Sealed Knot are the two biggest and oldest groups, they do English Civil War (17th century) concentrating on battles but domestic living history is growing. There is also a professional group (yes, they get paid!) called 'Past Pleasures' who will do any period - they are currently doing early medieval at the Tower of London and (I think) William and Mary at Hampton Court as well as other events. The main difference (as far as I can tell) between these groups and the SCA is that nearly all our work is public - we work on the basis that the public are going to be around. The only private events are training/organising weekends and parties - which may or may not be in costume (the Civil War groups have banquets in the winter). Most groups are third person re-enactment. I'm mainly involved in Kentwell Hall, which is a house, not a group (legally we are the guests of the owner), where we do first person domestic living history. BTW if any of the English readers of the list are interested, some of us from Kentwell (about 25) are doing a small-scale event at the Worcester Commandery on the weekend 19/20 August. Late 16th century, most of them are doing dancing and other gentry skills, and there is a small team of cooks. Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 09:10:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Please take the time to respond correctly to Mr. Wrights shoe request Dear colleagues: If I could respond to his queries I would, but I would understand his frustration at not getting the correct response to his shoe question. I don't think people are really reading his question. So I will try: Mr. Wright does NOT want sources, instructions, bibliographies for MAKING shoes. He does NOT want medieval shoes or anything. But to BUY, PURCHASE READY-MADE (meaning professionally made) BOOTS/SHOES from the Victorian era (?). I believe it is 19th century. FROM YOU: He would like VENDOR RECOMMENDATIONS in price and quality from the various PURVEYORS of these shoes. Is Amazon Drygoods of good quality for their price? Have any of you bought shoes of this period of superior workmanship for a decent price? I wish I could help, but I have never bought anything like this. I just drool of J.Peterman catalogs when they do recreations of Victorian footwear. Thank you all. Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 09:22:35 -0500 From: dssweet@Okway.okstate.edu (Deborah Sweet) Subject: Re: Wish I knew when I was startin' out... Cynthia Barnes writes: >8. Rotary cutters are worth their weight in gold. Buy the mat, curved > and straight edge rulers. Do CLOSE them after every cut. They are > bare razors and will happily cut any fabric or finger that comes > near them. It's ok to sweat & swear over your project, but a blood > sacrifice is unnecessary. If I don't stab myself with a pin or needle and draw blood (usually just a drop) whenever I sew something, then that project will have problems. The Goddess of Sewing *requires* a blood sacrifice. :-) Estrill Stillwater, OK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 10:18:20 TZ From: Edward Wright Subject: RE: Other Medieval Groups | If the enquirer about groups that wear their costumes is interested, there | are British re-enactment groups covering practically everything from Roman | (Ermine Street Guard - who also do domestic Roman), Dark Ages Society, to | the modern period. I know of a good 18th century group, but don't know of | any more recent regular groups. I've heard the Baker Street Irregulars sometimes hold events in costume, and I know they're in Great Britain as well as in the United States. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 14:39:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Richmond Memorial Library Subject: Intro/Old West I'm a librarian in Upstate NY, and I have an interest in historic techniques applied to everyday clothing. While none of the discussion has pertained to my particular interest, it's all been fascinating. I'm hoping that you can help me with a very nice patron who participates in a re-enactment of the shoot-out at the O.K. Corral in Tombstone. He needs sources for patterns for the men's clothing of that time. The only catalog I have is Harper House which carries alot of nice historic lines, but none seem to have the style he is looking for. If anyone has any information for a source or sources, would you please e-mail me directly? I get h-costume as a digest, and it's easy to get behind. TIA. Paula Meyer Reference/Outreach Librarian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 12:18:50 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: Please take the time to respond correctly to Mr. Wrights shoe request Teresa Shannon writes: >... I don't think people are really reading his question. So I will try: > > Mr. Wright does NOT want sources, instructions, bibliographies for MAKING > shoes. He does NOT want medieval shoes or anything. But to BUY, PURCHASE The number one golden rule for mailing list etiquette is * don't take up someone else's battle * -- that's what starts flame wars. Don't try to defend or "interpret for" someone else; if they're not getting the right answers then it's up to _them_ to make themselves clear, not up to others to "defend" them against supposed attacks. Doing so inevitably leads to flame wars, and we don't want that type of thing on this list. In his previous post, Mr. Wright made it perfectly clear, himself, that he wants to purchase ready-made products. One person has responded with a source publicly (prior to your post), and others may have responded directly via e-mail. The problem with Mr. Wright's request is that this list is about *recreating* historic costume, not buying it, and many of the members make their own shoes too. There simply might not be anyone on the list who buys ready-made shoes! Those looking for ready-made, or _existing_ vintage, sources of shoes and boots, may have better luck finding sources by asking on the Vintage Clothing and Costume Jewelry mailing list. H-costume is about _making_ clothing; Vintage is about _locating_ existing stuff. Here's the info on that list: Vintage Clothing and Costume Jewelry mailing list: Contact: listserv@brownvm.brown.edu Purpose: The purpose of this list is to discuss existing vintage clothing and vintage costume jewelry, of all eras. "Existing" is the key word here, and conversations concentrate on how to find such clothing and jewelry, where to buy it, how to judge its quality, how much to pay for it, how to wear it, etc. Some restoration topics, such as how to use parts of damaged goods in other garments or jewelry settings are suitable topics, too. Announcements for estate sales, advertisements for sale or wanted, and pointers to shops are all welcome on this list. Subscribing to vintage: Mail listserv@brownvm.brown.edu with the following message in the body: subscribe vintage Vintage page on the WWW: (http://www.cs.brown.edu/people/smh/vintage/vintage.html) The main purpose is to make the old archives publicly available, but there are links to lists of vintage clothing stores, resources, etc. List Owner: Suzanne Hader smh@cs.brown.edu - -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch all day. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 14:50:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Re: Please take the time to respond correctly to Mr. Wrights shoe request Sorry, just felt sorry for him, no flames meant hope no one was offended, won't do again. I am but an egg. Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 14:15:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurine Roller Subject: patterns off pictures? Is there anyone out there who makes, creates patterns off of a picture? I am a Chautauquan, totally incompetent with a needle. I recently obtained a photo vintage 1920 of one of my historical characters. Her outfit was specially made a la military mode when she covered WWI from front lines in France. I would like to recreate that costume if at all possible. Responses may be sent to the list or directly to me. Thanks in advance. Maurine Roller