From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #170 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, August 29 1995 Volume 3, Number 170 Important Addresses: Submissions to the list: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/removes/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Dogs and other pets... RE: Bleaching unbleached linen Bleaching linen Costume books Fwd: Re: Purple Bleaching with the sun bestiality penitentials, pets, and medieval hunting costume, etc. Central European costume? Re: Bleaching linen (and sunlight exposure) Corsets and reenacting Re: linen dyes Re: Corsets and reenacting Re: Animal Trappings (was Dogs and other pets...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:17:56 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Dogs and other pets... While I agree we're here to discuss all aspects of reproduction clothing, including accessories, I don't think conversations should concentrate on the specifics of dog breed temperments, or anything else obviously non-costuming like that. Please take those to rec.pets.dogs, to one of the dog breed-specific mailing lists or to private e-mail among the interested parties. Thanks! - -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch all day. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 09:20:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Irene Joshi Subject: RE: Bleaching unbleached linen The dung must be from either sheep or goats and it is still used in certain areas. On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Dorothy Stein wrote: > For those interested in 'environmentally friendly' processes (and > historically authentic ones), the traditional Indian dyer used to bleach > his cottons in a dung bath! > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 95 10:52:48 PDT From: Erin Harvey Moody Subject: Bleaching linen On bleaching unbleached linen: STOP! As Fatemi wrote, using a clorine based b leach may eat away at your fibers and leave you with at best, weak spots in your garment. I would recommending washing the fabric several times in DAWN di shwashing soap. Dawn breaks down oil deposits, and was used by veterinarians t o clean the animals covered in oil during the Exxon Valdiz spill. Then I would use BIZ brand bleach. BIZ is safe on delicate fabrics and contains nothing ha rmful. I use this process for restoring antique lace and it has been effective in transforming wadded up brown yuck into museum quality laces. A lemon juice rinse and a stint in the sun might also do it dome good... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 95 13:52:58 EST From: cthulhu.engr.sgi.com!sgi.sgi.com!SMTPGWY!dlxibm!Liz_Jones Subject: Costume books Annette Wilson wrote: | "A Visual History of Costume: the Sixteenth Century, Jane Ashelford" | is also titled "Dress in the Age of Elizabeth" ' Is it? Are you sure? I definitely have two different books, both published by Batsford. One is the Visual History of Costume in the 16th Century and has a yellow cover, and the other is pink and is focused entirely on Elizabethan, starting, of course, with Tudor. Sorry I am not being more specific but books are at home... Liz Jones (SCA: Damiana d'Onde) ljones@datalogix.com (you cannot "reply", must address fresh each time!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:54:36 -0400 From: Tracy023@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Re: Purple Hi, Ran across the following message on another list but thought it also was of interest here. Tracy - --------------------- Forwarded message: From: rellis@BRYNMAWR.EDU (Richard S. Ellis) Sender: ARCH-L@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU (Archaeology List) Reply-to: rellis@BRYNMAWR.EDU (Richard S. Ellis) To: ARCH-L@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU (Multiple recipients of list ARCH-L) Date: 95-08-26 16:15:30 EDT Folks, This is what my database spit out on "purple:" Baker, J. T. Jan., 1974 Tyrian purple: An ancient dye, a modern problem. +Endeavor+ 33/118:11-17. Herrmann, Peter 1975 Milesischer Purpur. +Istanbuler Mitteilungen +25:141-47. Miletus. Jensen, Lloyd S. 1963 Royal purple of Tyre. +JNES+ 22:104- 118. McGovern, Patrick E., and R. H. Michel 1984 Royal purple and the pre-Phoenician dye industry of Lebanon. +MASCA Journal+ 3:67-70. Sarepta Michel, R. H., and Patrick E. McGovern 1987 The chemical processing of royal purple dye: Ancient descriptions as elucidated by modern science, Part I. +Archeomaterials+ 1:135-43, 2:93. Michel, R. H., and Patrick E. McGovern 1990 The chemical processing of royal purple dye: Ancient descriptions as elucidated by modern science, Part II. +Archeomaterials+ 4:97-104. Oppenheim, A. Leo 1967 Essay on overland trade in the first millennium B.C. +JCS+ 21:236-54. Reinhold, Meyer 1970 +History of Purple as a Status Symbol in Antiquity+. Collection Latomus, 116. Brussels: Latomus. Pp. 7-12 on ANE. Seaborg, Glenn T. 1964 Science and the humanities: A new level of symbiosis. +Science+ 144:1201-1202. Stieglitz, Robert R. 1994 The Minoan origin of Tyrian Purple. +BA+ 57/1:46-54. Palaikastro. - -------------------------------------------------------- Richard S. Ellis rellis@brynmawr.edu Professor of Archaeology ph.: (610) 526-5343 (off.) Department of Classical and (610) 896-6189 (hm.) Near Eastern Archaeology fax.:(610) 526-7479 (off.) Bryn Mawr College 101 N. Merion Avenue Bryn Mawr, PA 19010-2899 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:18:23 -0500 From: nielsen@boba.mayo.edu (Ann Nielsen) Subject: Bleaching with the sun Greetings! Speaking about using the sun to bleach unfavorably colored cloth, here's my little story. A friend of mine picked up LOTS of olive-green rubber-backed brocade curtains and gave them to me. (She bought them at a rummage sale, thinking I would like them.) For several years I didn't know quite what to do with them --- they were in excellent shape, but ugly. Finally I hit on the idea of sewing a bunch of them together for a cloth cover over the tarp floor of my pavilion. After all, they fold very small, are easier to take along camping than a carpet, and after an event, I can throw the cloth floor into the washer and have it come clean. Sew I sewed (oops, sorry...) enough curtains together to make a cloth floor of 10 ft x 16 ft. It worked wonderfully well in the pavilion...but it was still ugly. I thought about redyeing the fabric, but wasn't sure what would happen with the rubber backing. I thought about tossing the whole wad into the washer with some bleach, but I wasn't sure what would happen with the rubber backing. When I bounced my ideas off a friend, she suggested laying it in the sun for a few days, with the rubber backing against the ground, to see what would happen. So I did. After a few days, I noticed a difference. Slight, but when compared to the back hemmed areas, a difference. So I left the ugly green flooring on the driveway (weighted down with rocks that I moved daily) for three weeks. Yes, it took three weeks, but the cloth floor is now a lovely harvest gold color. Much nicer on the eyes, much nicer to look at, and much brighter and prettier in the pavilion. Try placing your linen in the sunlight, preferably direct sunlight. It might take a couple of days, or even a week or more, but it will lighten. Side note: I also bleached a white tablecloth in the sun for a friend. Some red candlewax had melted onto the tablecloth, which I removed by first placing the tablecloth in the freezer and peeling as much of the frozen wax off as I could, second by ironing the waxed spots with an absorbent paper towel between the cloth and the iron (went through a lot of paper towels before they stopped picking up wax), third by washing the tablecloth thoroughly, then fourth by drying it for three or four days in the sun. The wax was gone completely, along with some unknown yellow stains, and my friend couldn't believe it was her tablecloth. Have fun! Ann (Mistress Therica in the SCA) - -- ********************************************************* * Ann Nielsen --'--,--{@ * * nielsen.ann@mayo.edu 507-284-4880 * * SPPDG Mayo Foundation * * Rochester, MN 55905 * * *** * * Out of sight, out of mind: Invisible Idiot * ********************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:25:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: bestiality penitentials, pets, and medieval hunting costume, etc. Since this subject of pets and bestiality appears to be off-subject, I will include a small addition of 14th century womens hunting costume, oh and I would like to think of the current pet discussion as costume accessories. :-) Bestiality is a mortal sin not venial, got it mixed up with passion in marriage, sorry. According to Sex, Dissidence and Damnation: Minority Groups in the Middle Ages by Jeffrey Richards; Sex and the Penitentials by Pierre Payer; Sex, Death, and Punishment by Richard Davenport-Hines; and Sexual Practices & the Medieval Church by Bullough & James Brundage Early England and Europe: Penitential of Cummean: Boy who receives communion also: 100 days penance Anyone else: 1 year base Canons of Theodore U: Anyone who commits it often: 10 years penance Anyone else: 15 years [go figure] Columbanus: Married offender receives double what a singlemans penance is Burgundian Penitential (9th c.): 2 yrs for clerics with an increase according to ecclesiastical rank Bede: 1 year regular offender + 1 year if monk Early Frankish penitentials: 15 years penance if it was with an unclean animal, 12 years if with a clean animal. Some say penance is 40 nights, if he was polluted through this arousal 70 days and an additional fast of 7 days. 3 years for women. Merseburg Penitential: 25 years if over 20 Frequent mention in some penitential esp. Columbanus that equates bestiality with masturbation with penances the same. Generally 3 years for a woman. In 1290 Ecclesiastica law in England ordered sodomites with bestiality inclusive, buried alive, but this sentence seems never to have been imposed. 1533 Henry VIII hanging of sodomites, bestiality included, both perpetrator and animal. The famous English law historians Pollock and Maitland, conclude that Henry's statute 'affords an almost sufficient proof that the temporal courts had not punished' sodomy, 'and that no one had been put to death for it for a very long time past.' Henry seems to have been the exception to the rule for dealing death for bestiality, and even then no deaths. The animals were supposed to be killed and the flesh given to dogs, except calves according to Hrabaus penitential which were ok for this act. Some decreed burial and later hanging. Generally worse penances if a woman was involved. Pets: As dress accessories, a highborn lady wouldn't be known without one. "Ferreting was not just a bish hunter's ploy; it was a popular small sport"-a fad where "noble women and children" found sport in it. "Most medieval nuns were from wealthy or upper class homes...But she could never keep up with her secular sisters unless she got herself a pet. Pets were the ornaments of social parade. 'Small hounds' were the favourites, and they were of two kinds: lapdogs and chamber dogs...In the early fourteenth century, Archbishop Peckham forbade the Abbess of Romsey to keep a 'number of small dogs in her own chamber, while stinting her nuns in food.'...The best loved chamber dogs were taken to church like hawks." The English at play in the middle ages by Theresa McLean The Ancren Riwle written in the 13th c. allowed those who chose the life of a recluse to have one pet. "Ye shall not possess any beast my dear sisters, except only a cat.' Cats were the traditional pets of recluses. They were the only domestic companions of the early Irish monks in their solitary huts. Caged birds, magpies, jays were popular household pets. See The Knight of La Tour Laundry, also eels and parrots brought back from the crusade. The Earl of Derby had one in 1392. Caging wild creastured had a special appeal for the Medievals. It represented a victory in the fight with nature. "They made pets of rabbits, squirrels and monkeys. The Abbess of Romsey kept monkeys as well as dogs in her chamber, and in 1387 William of Wykeham complained that the nuns there brought with them to church 'birds, rabbits, hounds and such like frivolous things, wherunto they give more heed than to the offices of the church." Hunting costume: this is the first mention of womens hunting costume from the middle ages I have chanced upon. Does anyone know of any others? Pictures or written description? This is fourteenth and fifteenth century England: "Most hunting women wore simple clothes, long and loose dresses and short over-jackets, slit up to the hip, allowing them to ride at speed and astride without any trouble. [Note: side-saddle wasn't introduced in England until Richard II's queen Anne of Bohemia brought it in 1388.] The men wore much the same, but those of lower class wore shorter, knee-length tunics like the ones worn by the berners and assistants on foot. Gloves were the other hallmark of nobility. Colours might be brilliant, the servants wearing the rich velvet liveries of their masters, but were more often predominantly green, for camouflage." "Riders wore velvet riding jackets and hoods, fustian doublets, brilliantly coloured short gowns and stockings, and leather or skin boots. Both sexes rode in spurs, gold and jewelled ones if desplay demanded it, and often in dress gloves, optional dress collars, purses and caps. These last became all the rage for society ladies when Anne of Bohemia was queen. Both sexes rode to hunt and take the air in narrow velvet caps with turned-up borders festooned with bright feathers." Both quotes from The English at Play in the Middle Ages by Theresa McLean who generally quotes in context and, alas doesn't have a bibliography, although most of the book is well-documented in context. Please forgive any information that you don't want to see, I am feeding others threads and interests. Any questions, I shall try to answer them. Your servant, Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 95 15:05:48 EST From: Valerie Elacqua Subject: Central European costume? From: Valerie Elacqua Re: Costume Books on Central Europe After a careful reading of the "Book of Costume" and "20,000 years of Costume" I still fall short of the kind of information I'm seeking in regard to Central European costume for the time period 1500-1700 in the Most Serene Republic of Both Nations (Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania). I have ample access to portraits of the period but no discussion of details and influences. Does anyone have references as comprehensive and well researched as as the aforementioned authors volumes? Many thanks, Val velacqua@ocmvm.cnyric.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 16:59:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Wells Subject: Re: Bleaching linen (and sunlight exposure) I would recommend against using exposure to sunlight, since light will irreversibly damage the fibres and make them weaker. This is especially true of antique fabrics and materials. It would be best to look at how textile conservators handle such situations. (De-ionised water and soaps--not detergents--are useful, but cleaning/washing does make changes. Of course, dirt will cause damage too.) Much depends on the "value" of the material in question. Dave Wells On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Erin Harvey Moody wrote: > On bleaching unbleached linen: STOP! As Fatemi wrote, using a clorine based b > leach may eat away at your fibers and leave you with at best, weak spots in > your garment. I would recommending washing the fabric several times in DAWN di > shwashing soap. Dawn breaks down oil deposits, and was used by veterinarians t > o clean the animals covered in oil during the Exxon Valdiz spill. Then I would > use BIZ brand bleach. BIZ is safe on delicate fabrics and contains nothing ha > rmful. I use this process for restoring antique lace and it has been effective > in transforming wadded up brown yuck into museum quality laces. A lemon juice > rinse and a stint in the sun might also do it dome good... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:31:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Questions are a burden to others; answers are a prison to ones self" Subject: Corsets and reenacting >3. When does sensible lacing become tight lacing? When it feels >like one side of my ribs is folding under the other side, it's too >tight. If I feel numb anywhere, it's too tight. I've never tried to >lace tighter & tighter over time to become progressively smaller. There is a big difference between modern body shapes and body shapes that have been in corsets since they were 3. This is a fact that is often overlooked. > For most historic costuming, the corset is used to reshape the >body to the silhouette of the time. Different corsets can be compared >to the difference between a sports bra and a Wonderbra. The corset >does not need to be tight to do the job! I don't think this can be said enough!!! Lacing a corset tighter isn't going to do much except make you pass out or get extremely lightheaded. Besides, there is only so far that your innards can compact anyway. Another big point to remember is that corsets need to be fitted to you personally in order to be the most effective. There is nothing worse than an ill-fitting corset and an all day event. But a corset made to your body shape can be absolute heaven once one gets used to bending from the knees and not the waist. Certainly, women who did lots of physical labor would not have worn corsets if they were as constricting as commonly thought today. The mother of my costume history teacher wore corsets every day of her life and did everything in them, gardening, cooking, cleaning and taking care of the children. This was during the 20's when there were other options in undergarments. I would suggest to anyone who is going to wear a corset for long periods of time to first wear one around the house and get used to it. It takes time for your muscles to adjust and for you to figure out how to move with one on. Simply bending over and picking something up like we are all used to doing is possible anymore. But you can bend down from the knees and get something off the floor that way. Sitting down is also a whole different experence. NO slouching allowed!! You actually learn proper posture and breathing from a corset which is something we aren't used to wearing the clothing that we do. Deb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:31:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimberly Smay Subject: Re: linen dyes I have not run across a book on natural dying with colour charts. Several years ago I met a woman at the U.S.I.T.T. conference who had put together a book on natural dyes and had a wonderful swatch ring. Unfortunately I don't remember her name except that she was an S.C.A.erand I think her character name included Gwendolyn. My own experience with natural dyes has been that colours vary widely with the same plant depending on the mordant, the fiber and even the age of the plant. For example I've read that dandelion root yields a magenta but I got tan when I tried it. A friend then told me she had fair success as long as the roots came from very young plants. In terms of dying linen, it was dyed in times past,but because it is a cellulose fiber it doesn't absorb dye well. The lower and middle-classes would probably have foregone the expense of dying linen and stuck to the more affordable coloured wool. A great deal of money was expended on ecclesiastical vestments which might explain the died lining. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:42:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimberly Smay Subject: Re: Corsets and reenacting I would agree that is vital that your corset be fitted to you. An earlier message on this subject mentioed it being haard to breathe in a corset. I've worked with actors who love them because the corset gives them something to breathe against.As a side note, We should all be lifting with our knees anyway whether we wear a corset or not. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:36:06 -0400 From: "Laurie E. W. Brandt" Subject: Re: Animal Trappings (was Dogs and other pets...) In message <199508291817.LAA21828@lunch.engr.sgi.com> Diane Barlow Close writes: > While I agree we're here to discuss all aspects of reproduction clothing, > including accessories, I don't think conversations should concentrate > on the specifics of dog breed temperments, or anything else obviously > non-costuming like that. Please take those to rec.pets.dogs, to one > of the dog breed-specific mailing lists or to private e-mail among the > interested parties. Thanks! > -- > Diane Close > close@lunch.engr.sgi.com Agreeed, How about a change to recreating horse trapings as in Alcega, and dog coats such as the protective coats warn by dogs of war and boar hounds? Laurie ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #170 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!