From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #190 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, September 19 1995 Volume 3, Number 190 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: H-Costume Digest V3 #187 Handsewing RE: Periodicity Re: Handsewing Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #189 Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #189 1880s Frock Coat Pattern Wanted tea dyeing sub RE: cartridge pleating Shot Silk and Samite Re: Handsewing buttondown collars Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #189 Re: butted seams? Embroidery Silks Costume Journal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:14:26 -0400 From: Ann Barry Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #187 >Take wool, for example. There are many different >types of wool, commonly divided into "woolen" and "worsted" based on the staple >length. But staple length can vary greatly within those categories. Then >there's spinning technique. As a spinner and weaver, my understanding of "woolen" and "worsted" is a bit different. I have never heard of the two being divided by staple length but by the differences in how the wool is processed and spun. The process and spinning techniques will relate to staple length but also take into consideration fineness, luster and usage. Many sheep varieties could be processed either way with only the extreme examples need to prepared one way or the other. "Woolen" fabrics are made with wool that has been carded, the fibers going in many different directions. The carded wool is very airy and can be handspun using a long draw method that keeps this characteristic in the spun yarn. Woolen yarns have more elasticity in them. Woolen yarns are good for sweaters, blankets, flannels, etc. The woven fabrics will "full" considerably when they are washed and mangled. You can also get a nap with a woolen - teasels worked well for this. "Worsteds" are made with fleece that has been combed, the fibers running in parallel. The prepared rovings are dense, not airy the way a carded preparation would be, and the spinning technique keeps the fibers in parallel. The fabric woven from this type of yarn is heavier and smoother and stands up to abrasion better. The fabric does not "full" very well and the yarn is not elastic. Worsted fabrics are found in men's suitings, rug yarns, crewel yarns. Many of the types of fleece used in this preparation (though not all) are lustrous. Woolen fabrics tend to be softer, worsteds, silkier and smoother. Neither fabric is superior to the other - their different characteristics dictate the best use. Ann Barry (abarry@pipeline.com) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:43:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Mary M Spila Subject: Handsewing In the same thread (Pun intended), what type of seaming was done for handsewing? What type of stiches? Mary?marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 10:45:19 TZ From: Edward Wright Subject: RE: Periodicity | I don't think Shakespeare's actors, or actors of the era in | general, used costumes as we think of them. The actors had | their own personal wardrobes that they wore on stage. Since | there was not really any attention to accuracy, it wouldn't | have been neccessary to have many (if any) costume changes. | (Plus, even today some Shakespearean plays are performed | without many changes.) There are numerous surviving accounts of theatrical costumes, as well as purchases of materials for theatrical costuming. Shakespeare's company, No actor in Shakespeare's time could afford clothing as fine as what they wore on stage. The Lord Chamberlin's Men, for example, was issued a license to purchase 20 yards of scarlet, a type of cloth normally forbidden to anyone under the rank of Prince, for stage costumes. Many of the costumes worn by actors would not have been suitable for street attire in any case, since they portrayed knights and soldiers in armor; foreigners; supernatural beings such as monsters, devils, witches, and fairies; or women. One period writer criticized foolish women who fell in love with actors because of their fine clothes, not realizing that they were merely stage costumes and not personal clothing. So, while this is a mistake, at least it's a period mistake. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:30:24 -0400 From: "Laurie E. W. Brandt" Subject: Re: Handsewing In message Mary M Spila writes: > In the same thread (Pun intended), what type of seaming was done for > handsewing? What type of stiches? According to T. Dillmont's work _The Encyclopedia of Needlework_ ca 1900.Running stich, Back Stich, Hemming and plain hem. Under hems there is hems with ortamenyal stiches, flat seam,Round seam,Top or oversewing stich,Antique seams, Openwork seams, French double seams, Hemmed double seams etc. Laurie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 13:57:54 PDT From: susanf@EERC.Berkeley.Edu (Susan Fatemi) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #189 Could someone please explain what shot silk is?? I'd really like to know. I always wondered what "samite" is too (Lady of the Lake). Re: maternity corsets. I've never worn a period corset myself so I can't compare, but I have had two children, and during the second pregnancy, esp., I wore a maternity girdle (spandex or somehting) which really helped. I guess everything had stretched out the first time, and it really helped to have that extra support. When you think that ladies in the past generally had many children in their lifetimes, they might have been glad of the extra support too. Is there perhaps an unreasonable (and very modern) bias *against* corsetry ?? Generally this list seems to *love* corsets! The second sentence above means "samite" such as the Lady of the Lake wore (Mallory not Tennyson). susan fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:30:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #189 > Could someone please explain what shot silk is?? I'd really like to know. > I always wondered what "samite" is too (Lady of the Lake). > > The second sentence above means "samite" such as the Lady of the Lake wore > (Mallory not Tennyson). > Shot silk has a variety of names, it is silk with one colour weft and another coloured warp creating an iridescent effect were the fabric changes colours dramatically depending on the fall of the garment and were the grain is. Quite stunning. If you need the 14thc. english names, I have them. Samite is a period term for a satin weave silk worn as clothing. As in the Lady of the Lake both Mallory and the Lady of Shallott Tennyson. Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:00:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Gary Rumain Subject: 1880s Frock Coat Pattern Wanted My wife is looking for a good pattern for an 1880's Frock Coat. Can anyone recommend one? By good, I mean one that is not a pain to put together (some of them that we've seen turned out to be a chore to actually make) Thanks in Advance, Gary Rumain sherlock@clark.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 17:25:34 EST5EDT From: EVANKLEY@LEGACY.Calvin.EDU Subject: tea dyeing sub A while ago someone had a more successful process for an off-white dye than tea dyeing (more even dyeing was one advantage.) Now that I'm about to tea dye some very white lace I can't remember what this alternative was. Is the person who suggested this still out there or does anyone else remember what this was? Thanks, Elaine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 14:51:10 PDT From: julie_adams@corp.Cubic.COM Subject: RE: cartridge pleating One method of pleating is called "organ-pipe" pleating. Each pleat makes a perfect tube. Most examples can be seen in the late 15th and 16th centuries. Also see some in 1890's (example drawings in Janet Arnold). See best women examples in Lucas Cranach, Vicellio, etc. -- Ladies skirts, some houpelandes, men's coat-skirts and shaube's. Each pleat has a wider top and deaper pleat than a normal cartridge pleat. The garment to be pleated is cut on a circle, and is usually set in place with stay tapes and/or by weighting/hanging. The existing example garment using this technique is a men's skirt worn under armor, called Bases. This is shown in several costume books, I think Blanche Payne or Boucher, as well. I can't remember off-hand where the pattern and instructions are from, but somewhere the garment is plotted out. I've made several modeled after this pattern and it makes perfect organ-pipes, but it is tricky and not for the faint of heart. Cartridge pleating a gored skirt with shallow cartridges can come close to the look, but the pleats won't be as precise. - -- julie adams ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:37:56 -0400 From: jreymes@eagle.ca (Jennifer Reymes) Subject: Shot Silk and Samite >Could someone please explain what shot silk is?? I'd really like to know. >I always wondered what "samite" is too (Lady of the Lake). > Shot silk is a fabric having a changeable colour, produced in weaving by all of the warp threads being of one colour and all of the weft threads being that of another. Silk is the usual material woven this way, but there are also shot alpaca, taffetta, and other goods. Samite literally means six-threaded. It was a heavy silk material, sometimes interwoven with gold. It was supposed to have been so named because each thread was woven of six strands; but perhaps because the weft threads were caught and looped only at each sixth thread of the warp. From S. K. Handbook, Textile Fabrics, p.25: To say of any silken tissue that it was "exanitum" or "samit" meant that it was six threaded, and therefore costly and splendid...This splendid web was often so thick and strong that each string, whether it happened to be of hemp or of silk, had in the warp six threads, while the weft was of flat gold shreds. Jennifer Reymes (Gwenhwyfar) jreymes@eagle.ca Ful younge he was and mery of thought, And in samette with briddes wrought. Rom. of the Rose, 1. 836 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 18:42:30 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: Handsewing Mary/Marian wrote: :In the same thread (Pun intended), what type of seaming was done for :handsewing? What type of stiches? What techniques depended on your century. However, there were simple seams (right to right side with running or backstitch), reinforced seams (take the simple seam and stitch a running stitch to either side of the opened seam or turn to one side and stitch through the multiple layer) and flatfelled seams as far back as I've found archeological textile references. There are several useful books, including the "modern" one from Tauton press called Couture Techniques. I like the ones from the Museum of London such as Textiles and Clothing from the digs of medieval London. Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:07:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Shirley Matheis Subject: buttondown collars Can someone tell me the earliest use of the button-down collar on men's shirts? Thanks. Shirley M. - -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 18:48:44 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #189 Susan Fatemi asks: :Could someone please explain what shot silk is?? I'd really like to know. Shot silk has a warp of a different color than the weft. It sort of shimmers different colors depending on how the light strikes it. The irridescent taffetas (although they are not silk, they are in imitation of it) are examples. Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 18:34:54 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: butted seams? Mellyrn asks about: :A certain lady (in all senses of the word), being herself a weaver :has suggested that, once you've put *that* much work into making :your fabric, you're not going to waste a square inch you don't :have to. She taught a class one Pennsic on how to cut, shape & :create till all your scraps left out of, say, 12 yards, amount to :a handful of shreds suitable only for stuffing--it was wonderful. : :She suggested that period people were frugal enough to wish to :avoid even the "waste" represented by seam allowances, & mentioned :"butted" seams as being used. : :Were they? (Though she was obviously cheap, was she also lazy wrt :research, or stupid?) Were they unusual, standard, or unheard-of? Butted seams were in early use, as can be seen in the textiles found at the Jorvik and other Viking digs. Also see Museum of London's Textiles and Clothing from the digs of Medieval London. :Does anyone have any suggestions on how to manage, reinforce or :otherwise treat the raw edges for butted seams so they don't fray :or fall apart? Always using selvage edges doesn't seem practical... A lot of these techniques are sort of hard to describe (and I don't do ASCII drawings well anyway). However, the archeology books I mentioned above (sorry, I don't have the information easily at hand) have drawings of this. Interestingly enough, there are handsewing techniques which are currently in use. A very interesting book put out by Taunton Press called Couture Techniques by Clair Schaeffer(?sp) has some wonderful handsewing tips and discussions with lots of good technique drawings. One of the techniques used was called fagotting. Rural Pennsyvania Clothing (another good book for discussions of handsewing) shows some of these. Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ Date: 19 Sep 95 09:00:00 BST From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Embroidery Silks Embroidery Silks The modern habit of calling embroidery cottons 'silks' makes this a difficult area to define. However, the piece of embroidery I meant was on a silk ground and the embroidery silks were silk, imported from France. Mean or Cheap? I am sure people in the past were economical with fabric, and it is certainly possible to cut and piece so as to leave very little cabbage, but there is a fault in the argument. Unlike the lady who taught the class, certainly by the 16th century, the person doing the cutting and sewing would normally be a tailor, not a weaver - different trades. I also understood that the wastage from cutting (cabbage) was a perk of the tailoring trade. Butted Seams? The only true butt seams I've come across are in leatherwork (butt seams are used on the sides of shoes). Even in faggotting you need some seam allowance. Faggotting was used to make decorate seams on smocks and shirts in the 16th century. The Dread WorD! I agree with Heather, I find research and extending my knowledge fun. Am I allowed to say that I find the assumption that, because I am interested in being as accurate as possible, I am automatically a killjoy, rather insulting? However, my quest for authenticity (that dread word) is increased because I belong to a first person living history group who work with the public (we do occasionally get children who believe we really are 16th century people - - and then they start crying because they are worried about getting home ...). If I am passing off something I know is wrong then it is, to say the least, embarrassing. Other people have other motivations. BTW Yes, our group has a long lead in for costume making (minimum March to June each year), yes we have a costume adviser, who does most of the dirty work of telling people what is or is not up to standard, and yes, we try to slowly raise our standards each year. Interestingly, it is when someone brings out a costume that was perfectly acceptable a few years ago, that we really see how our standards have risen! Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:19:30 -0400 From: jreymes@eagle.ca (Jennifer Reymes) Subject: Costume Journal I pray that no one minds, but I have still been receiving requests for the information on Costume, and thought to post it here for those who I may have mistakenly not replied to (I hope there is no one); and to those that may not have been following that thread and may be interested in the journal. Thank you, Jennifer Reymes (Gwenhwyfar) jreymes@eagle.ca __________________________________________________________________ The Costume Society was formed in 1965 to promote the study and preservation of significant examples of historic and contemporary costume. This embraces the documentation of surviving examples and the study of decorative arts allied to the history of dress, as well as literary and pictorial sources. Membership runs from January to December. Information about the Society is available from Ms Pat Poppy, 21 Oak Road, Woolston, Southampton SO19 9bQ The information herein is taken from Costume Number 29. Prices given in brackets, are reduced prices for the Society's members. PRICES ARE IN POUNDS STERLING Journal of Costume Society No. 29 (1995) 12.00 (9.00) The following back issues are still available Nos 8-15 (1974-1981) 5.00 (3.00) No. 18 (1984) 5.00 (3.00) Nos 21-22 (1987-88) 8.00 (6.00) Nos 24-28 (1990-94) 8.00 (6.00) Index to nos 1-26 1.00 Packing and Postage: Costume single copy 1.50 (in Pounds Sterling) additional volumes 80p each There are also some special publications. Information on all Costume Society Publications are available from: The Costume Society, Publications, Cara Lancaster, 42 Sydney Street, London SE3 6PS Ask for Cara Lancaster's catalogue too. This is what is in the 1995 issue: #29. 144pp. Articles: - -Textile Imports in the 15th Century: The Evidence of the Customs' Accounts - -Civic Livery in Medieval London: The Serjeants - -Dressing Down in Eighteenth-Century Lyon: The Clothing of Silk Designers - -'A list of Ye Wardrobe' 1749: The Dress Inventory of John Montagu, 2nd Duke of Montagu - -Thomas Hardy and Rural Dress - -Memories of Girlhood Apparel from the United States Indian Territory, 1850-1907 - -A Curled Woollen Suit: A Story of Survival - -The Cheung Sam - It's Rise and Fall - -The National Portrait Gallery Heinz Archive and Literary - -The Layfayette Collection at the National Portrait Gallery Archive - -The Victoria and Albert Museum's Archive of Art and Design: Resources for the Study of Costume - -Family Motoring in Edwardian Times (*this is a picture) - -New Books and Articles - -Reviews - -Exhibitions - -Notes and Queries ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #190 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. 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