From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #200 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Saturday, September 23 1995 Volume 3, Number 200 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Consequences, etc. Re: Dealing with the Consequences Fake Pearls was RE: Authenticity cloak neck question Re: ermine, weasels, etc. Re: cloak neck question Re: cloak neck question Re: sewing goodies Re: cloak neck question Re: cloak neck question Re: Fake Pearls was RE: Authenticity re: Rennaisance Ribbons damage repair/re-weaving cloth Re: French hood Re: Cotton Again -- Accessing the Archives Re: cloak neck question 1880s Frock Coat Patterns Marriage Ages Tabby Silks and Cats ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:42:50 EDT From: bglickman@eckert.acadcomp.monroecc.edu Subject: Consequences, etc. From Sarah Goodman's post: > If memory serves me well, abortion was known for a long time before the the > 17th c. This seems a little extreme even if abortion was too expensive. It > seems more likely that the woman would just attempt it herself using fairly > common plants and: I think in most versions it's yarrow, but I could be wrong. More likely Tansy - also used as a vermifuge (getting rid of internal worms... PLUS a bunch of pregnancy-preventing herbals that acted just like modern birth-contol pills. (plus versions of spermicides, IUD's, etc. etc.) Yes, methods of abortion were known, chemical (usually herbal) and surgical, then (and for several thousand years before). They are specifically listed (and forbidden by) the Hypocratic Oath. Midwives also had their potions and brewes. (And given the concepts of antiseptsis at the time I'd MUCH rather trust a midwife on this one.) The Hippocratic Oath was for MALE doctors - who were not supposed to be messing around with womens' work - Ie the midwives and your mother, sisters, aunts, etc. were the ones who knew how to deal with women's health problems - from menarche to memopause and beyond. Filty operating procedures practiced by doctors were terrible health risks until sanitation came in. In the 1800's and early 1900's, anti-abortion laws were to protect you from them. How well they worked and how safe they were is another story.... Yech! There is a reason I fight to keep abortion legal!) RIGHT ON!!!!! B. Glickman - --------------------------------------------------------------- - -------------------------------------------------|=|=|-------- Bonnie Glickman =|=|= Bio. Dept.; Monroe Comm. Coll. |=|=| Rochester, NY 14623 (716) 292-2725 =|=|= email: bglickman@eckert.acadcomp.monroecc.edu |=|=| ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 08:57:40 -0500 From: deirdre@deeny.MV.COM (Deirdre) Subject: Re: Dealing with the Consequences Sarah Goodman says: > Yes, methods of abortion were known, chemical (usually herbal) and > surgical, then (and for several thousand years before). They are > specifically listed (and forbidden by) the Hypocratic Oath.... From Beyerl's "The Master Book of Herbalism" (primarily for pagan herbalists who use herbs for ritual magics), common abortifacent herbs are: blue cohosh (north american), ergot (would you like an LSD trip with that?), golden seal (north american), tansy oil, valerian, and bay laurel berries (remember how you're told to REMOVE bay leaves from spaghetti??). Yarrow isn't mentioned as an abortifacent, but it does help stop bleeding and may have been used where hemorraging or bleeding was a problem. Your humble servant, Deirdre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 08:58:11 -0500 From: deirdre@deeny.MV.COM (Deirdre) Subject: Fake Pearls was RE: Authenticity Sarah Goodman says: > Well, one would assume that you are talking about using > Authentically Reporduced Elizabethan Fake Pearls and not > just any old modern fake pearl. ;-) Spain has produced Mallorca pearls (which are fake) for hundreds of years. My guess is they most likely came from there. > (Which brings up the interesting question of does anyone know how > they made "pearls" and other simulated jewels (which I'm sure were > used in clothing if not as jewelery)? Yes, thank Joan Rivers and QVC for this one. The better fake pearls have a GLASS core that is made from a milk white glass. In some *really* good reproduction (which I would guess would be true for those in period), fine pearl nacre is overlaid. On others, the process is glass or plastic. Good fake pearls are HEAVY and make a sound like glass beads but muted slightly. Good fakes also have knots between each pearl. You might think glass is a little weird for a core of a fake pearl, but it makes sense: glass is silicon dioxide. Sand, the usual irritant for a pearl in an oyster is also silicon dioxide. So it makes sense that it would be an authentic-looking pearl that way. Of the fakes I have seen, Joan Rivers and the chain store Impostors have the best quality. _Deirdre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:51:06 -0400 (EDT) From: cpecourt@mhv.net Subject: cloak neck question Hello When I first started the SCA I got help to make a wonderful cloak. Not knowing much about sewing at that time I relied on my ffiend's directions for cutting the neck..and ended up with a neck hole thats a bit too big for my tastes. My problem is that it rides low, not uncomfortable, but does expose my neck and shoulders to drafty chills. I'd like to know if anyone else has ever had this problem and what might be done about it. I had thought to take the cloak apart and somehow tighten the neck using tucks or something.. Gathering and pleating will not work as its VERY heavy wool and the bulk at the neck line would be quite awful.. Thanks for any help Chantal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:56:45 BST From: Alan Braggins Subject: Re: ermine, weasels, etc. > "Weasel" is a general name for the genus of which the ermine is a member. Is this a English/American difference? I always thought a weasel was a specific member of the family. (The dictionary I have here (Concise Oxford) says it is Mustela nivalis, ermine is Mustela erminea, and stoat is "ermine, esp. when in its brown summer coat" (but someone else has already said European and American ermine are different)). > A true ermine skin will be surprisingly small -- perhaps an inch and a > half wide by 8-12 inches long. Weasels are, I think, even smaller than ermine - a bit like a skinny squirrel (I saw one the weekend before last, unless it was a stoat). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 11:41:27 -0400 From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) Subject: Re: cloak neck question Chantal asked for help: >Hello > When I first started the SCA I got help to make a wonderful >cloak. Not knowing much about sewing at that time I relied on my >ffiend's directions for cutting the neck..and ended up with a neck hole >thats a bit too big for my tastes. My problem is that it rides low, not >uncomfortable, but does expose my neck and shoulders to drafty chills. >I'd like to know if anyone else has ever had this problem and what might >be done about it. I had thought to take the cloak apart and somehow >tighten the neck using tucks or something.. Gathering and pleating will >not work as its VERY heavy wool and the bulk at the neck line would be >quite awful.. > Thanks for any help > >Chantal > Here's what I would do. Take a contrasting fabric, like velvet in a coordinating colour. Keeping the depth even, create a "neck yoke" of the velvet, and a hood, which will help encourage the idea that you did this on purpose for decorative reasons. (If you have any of the original wool left over, an edging around the front of the hood would be even more convincing) A hood is a good idea if your neck gets cold, anyway. Put a hook and eye a few inches above the fastening, so you can fasten the hood around your throat for added warmth. Don't try to match the fabric because it will be obvious because of the extra seam. Unless just adding a hood provides enough extra bulk to keep you warm. I hope this isn't as confusing as I think it is! Kathleen (Catriona) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 12:36:09 -0400 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: cloak neck question i would reccomend getting a remnant of a similar wool, and making a yoke of sorts that fits the neck, and the existing neckline will fit into. You could even add a hood to the yoke, if you desire. Another option would be to take a very long dart in the middle of the back, and slash it open and press it flat to reduce bulk. Good luck. Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:11:38 -0400 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: sewing goodies - --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: sewing goodies Date: 95-09-22 19:16:47 EDT From: BBrisbane To: h-costume@lunch.eng.sqi.com Here are some stray thoughts relating to some past and current postings: I remember someone lamenting the difficulty in making the oh-so-tiny stitches in some garments; and realized (as I picked it up to use it) that a 'third hand' or 'sewing bird is what is needed. Its a screw clamp that attatches to a table or what-have-you with a spring clamp for fabric attatched by a cord or ribbon. A sewing bird holds your work taut and frees one hand, and you can make tiny stitches by going straight up and down through the fabric, as for embroidery, instead of running them. My sewing bird certainly revolutionized the way I sew. You can document them in Victorian catalogs, and pre-1600, stuff was hooked on a nail driven in the table (ugh!). The other nifty thingy the lady interested in machine quilting is a quilting guide for her machine; it is a little bent metal outrigger that slips into the spring on the back of the presser foot, and glides along the fabric surface at a previously made line. A note of caution about machine quilting - - baste that sucker, or ripples will appear from the 8th dimension when you least expect them. Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 12:43:18 -0400 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: cloak neck question Oops! sent my reply before reading Kathleens: I like her idea of a contrasting fabric better. Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:52:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Re: cloak neck question > ffiend's directions for cutting the neck..and ended up with a neck hole > thats a bit too big for my tastes. My problem is that it rides low, not > uncomfortable, but does expose my neck and shoulders to drafty chills. Piece in a cresant shaped bit (outside--matches the current neckline/inside-matches the neckline you want) and then hide the whole under a collar or hood. Alternately, you could just make a separate hood to wear over it and hide the problem. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:56:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Re: Fake Pearls was RE: Authenticity > pearl nacre is overlaid. On others, the process is glass or plastic. Good > fake pearls are HEAVY and make a sound like glass beads but muted slightly. > Good fakes also have knots between each pearl. They also feel different from real pearls if you bite them, although I'm not sure how. (The grandmother who passed along this wisdom did not own any fake pearls so couldn't demonstrate.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:59:09 -0700 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Glenna and Bill Christen ) Subject: re: Rennaisance Ribbons Does Rennaisance Ribbons sell ribbons appropriate for 1850's-'60's bonnet strings? They were usually 3"-4" wide and silk, but I'll settle for silk-like ribbon. If they don't does anyone know of such a source, especially at prices hopefully somewhat less than $30.00/yd. Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris.ix.netcom.com Warren, MI ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 18:48:54 -0400 From: lrp@westol.com Subject: damage repair/re-weaving cloth I have a potentially valuable garmet that has been damaged by a theatrical house that put five button holes down the front of a garbardine coat. The coat had a hidden fly front and the button-holes were sewn directly through the front. I'd like to repair the damage, but know very little about re-weaving a twilled or gabardine cloth. Can anyone direct me to a good reference dealing with repairs to gabardine, or better yet, who could I trust with it? Help! Les >In 1987, I made a Rennaissance gown and some time after that (but I forget >how long) I made a French hood to go with it. What I used was a wedding veil >hood which I bought at a local Hancock's Fabrics. The construction consisted >of a heavy wire framework with the hood part filled with stiff net material. >I simply covered this over with some of the remaining dress fabric (both >sides, with handstitching), attached some brocade and pearl trims I had left >over, and applied a veil to it. It worked really well. > As a person who portrays a 1530's Tudor woman in the SCA, I made a few French Hoods myself. The one try I made was successful and I have used this method since. . .I would get some sheets of needlepoint netting (preferably wide sheets) and 2 coat hangers. Measure from the bottom of the right earlobe to over your head to the bottom of the left earlobe. Then cut the wire to the exact measurement for the front part of the hood. Then take the other coat hanger and do the exact same procedure EXCEPT you measure 1-2" from the BACK of the earlobe at a slant downwards about 30-40 degrees. Then take the netting and lay it flat on a table and draw a long spread out crescent shape with the measurement of 3-4" in the middle part of the hood which would be the part that hangs at n authentic slant on top of your head. The bottom ends should be 1-2" wide where they would cover the ears. You will find when you bend the netting, it will bend in a very authentic slant like you will find in portraits of Anne Boleyn and others. Bend the wires to fit your head and remember that the back wire will bend slightly higher than the front wire. Then sew with heavy thread the netting to the wires (shorter one on the front and the longer one on the back for the upward slant from the rear view) and voila! You have an authentic French Hood!! Hope this didn't sound too confusing. . . . Sarah Anne SCA: Anne of Foxmoor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 19:57:48 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: Cotton Again -- Accessing the Archives RAC@NAUVAX.UCC.NAU.EDU wrote: > It is not my desire to start the cotton and wool controversy all over > again, but I am wondering if there is a summary of the entire discussion > and conclusions. You can research the entire original conversation for yourself by taking a look at the list archives. Here's how to do so: Archives are available by using e-mail, from the archive server, majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. To get an index of available files, send a message with the words: index h-costume as the body of the message, to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Then use the command: get h-costume filename where "filename" is the actual name of the file, to retrieve the named file. Multiple requests per message are allowed. I suggest starting with the files CONTENTS and TOPICS. Note that they are spelled in all capital letters -- the server is case sensitive. When you get an index of files back, you'll notice that some file names are spelled in all capital letters and some are a mix of lower case letters and numbers. Request them exactly as you see them listed. I.e. if you request "contents" you'll get back an error message, but if you ask for CONTENTS you'll get back that file. The CONTENTS file is a list of all the topics discussed, split up by volume numbers. The TOPICS file is an alphabetical list of all the topics discussed, and a notation that tells you in which volume they can be found. So, if you wanted the file called TOPICS you'd send: get h-costume TOPICS as the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com and the server would send you back that file. Then you could search for the word "cotton" and see what digests came up under that title and then grab all those issues from the archive. - -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch all day. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 23:01:57 -0400 From: NeaDods@aol.com Subject: Re: cloak neck question Chantal, what I'd do to fill up a low-cut neckline is to add a piece at the top, making it look like trim. Perhaps some fake fur, or contrasting wool, with a strip of same down the edges? What period is your SCA persona? Collars were in fashion for the later periods, and that could fix the problem too. Nea ------------------------------ Date: 24 Sep 95 00:42:44 EDT From: "Dawn T. Jacobson" <74647.1271@compuserve.com> Subject: 1880s Frock Coat Patterns Gary Rumain wrote: >>My wife is looking for a good pattern for a late Victorian (circa 1880's) Frock Coat. Can anyone recommend one? By good, I mean one that is not a pain to put together (some of them that we've seen turned out to be poorly designed and didn't work very well).<< After years of looking for a decent frock coat pattern, and coming to the conclusion that none of them are really very good, I talked with an expert tailor (my husband's). It seems that what is not included in the pattern instructions are all the tips and techniques for "finessing" a heavily constructed garment like a frock coat. These tips and techniques aren't usually included, because they can vary from coat to coat, as each is built for a slightly different body. This particular tailor has been building men's frock coats and Prince Alberts for the past 20 years, and turns out a garment that is virtually identical to 19th C. coats in my husband's small collection of historic garments, so I believe "the proof is in the pudding." Dawn 74647.1271@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: 24 Sep 95 00:42:31 EDT From: "Dawn T. Jacobson" <74647.1271@compuserve.com> Subject: Marriage Ages Sarah Goodman wrote: >>It might be interesting to do a run on parish records to see how many women who had stopped bearing children suddenly had a baby at just about the point where their daughters could be assumed to have start their menses. Also, in my youth there were certainly a lot of reasonably large prematurely born children concienved on their parent's wedding nights!<< Lois Green Carr and Lorena S. Walsh examined pregnancy and marriage ages in their study of women living in 17th C. Maryland. Their study of the unusual demographics of early Maryland revealed that many adult women that immigrated to Maryland did so as indentured servants during the 2nd half of the 17th Century; that least 20% were brought before the courts for bastardy; that when she was free from her indentured state (either through purchase of her contract by a prospective husband, or by completing her contract through employment), the majority married, usually in their mid-20s (average age 24); and that 1/3 were pregnant at the time of the ceremony. This rate was nearly twice the rate of bridal pregnancy in English parishes. Carr, Lois Green & Lorena S. Walsh. "The Planter's Wife: The Experience of White Women in Seventheenth-Century Maryland" from _A Heritage of Her Own: Toward a New Social History of American Women_, edited by Nancy F. Cott and Elizabeth H. Pleck (Simon & Schuster: 1979) Dawn Jacobson 74647.1271@compuserve.com "Putting that very expensive education to use" ------------------------------ Date: 24 Sep 95 00:42:36 EDT From: "Dawn T. Jacobson" <74647.1271@compuserve.com> Subject: Tabby Silks and Cats In answer to Carolyn Frazer's question regarding "Tabby," _Fairchild's Dictionary of Textiles_ (6th Ed., 1979) defines "tabby" as: 1. Derived from the Attabiya weaver's district of Baghdad where three-colored fabrics were woven about 800 A.D. 2. An old British classification for fabrics made with a plain or taffeta weave, such as plain weave silk fabric, or silk taffeta, usually with a moire or striped finish; also a plain weave worsted fabric, such as moreen. 3. A term formerly used in great Britain meaning padded or quilted. Such padding was employed in women's clothing for warmth or to improve the figure. 4. A plain weave. Weavers today refer to any fabric in which the warp and weft threads are balanced as "tabby" or "tabby weave." Now, a completely off-the-wall question for everyone else. We now know why striped cats are called "tabbies"; where did the British slang term "moggie" for a domestic cat come from? Dawn Jacobson 74647.1271@compuserve.com ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #200 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!