From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #201 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Monday, September 25 1995 Volume 3, Number 201 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: cloak neck question Re: sewing goodies Re: Fake Pearls was RE: Authenticity Re: sewing goodies Re: odd sized patterns for men and women Re: sewing goodies Re: Pearls & Teeth Re: naughty ladies Thai silk Tudor Turmoil Re: Tudor Turmoil Ladies in Waiting Pinchbeck - and old drugs Re: Samite & Shot Silk Re: pinchbeck Re: Marriage Ages RE:RE: sewing goodies - good book Re: Quilting an underskirt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 06:11:41 -0400 From: GiulianaLG@aol.com Subject: Re: cloak neck question Just a thought, but no one seems to have mentioned it yet, so I will. - --- The idea of adding a contrasting yoke to an already-made cloak (with the neck too wide) is excellent.... might I add that it is >very< medieval to wear a hood or mantle (sort of like a mini-cloak that covered just the shoulders) to block out said drafts. You theoretically don't need to change the cloak at all, just make a hood / mantle. Often they were of the pull-over variety (especially suitable for your apparent needs) and some had hoods, others didn't. Either way, it's an extremely "period" way to block out those nasty drafts. I believe there are patterns available through the usual SCA - type contacts. I'm not sure what kingdom you're in, Chantal, but here in the West, they're common enough that you could find someone wearing one, and ask to look at it. The pattern is very simple but I won't attempt to describe it. p.s. If you wish, I could send you a postcard with a sketch of the basic shape, just e-mail me at GiulianaLG@aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 08:14:10 -0400 From: KenDawe@aol.com Subject: Re: sewing goodies In a message dated 95-09-23 13:17:35 EDT, BBrisbane@aol.com writes: >realized (as I picked it up to use it) that a 'third >hand' or 'sewing bird is what is needed. Its a screw clamp that attatches to >a table or what-have-you with a spring clamp for fabric attatched by a cord >or ribbon. A sewing bird holds your work taut and frees one hand, and you >can make tiny stitches by going straight up and down through the fabric, as >for embroidery, instead of running them. Can you name a book or magazine with a picture or drawing? I get the screw clamp bit, but the rest is fuzzy. >and pre-1600, stuff was hooked on a nail driven in the table (ugh!). The nail was driven in the table and the fabric simply hooked on the nail? Didn't that mess up the fabric? As you can tell, I'm having trouble visualizing the way this stuff works... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 10:23:22 -0400 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: Fake Pearls was RE: Authenticity The way to tell real pearls from fake: don't _bite_ them - rub gently across your front teeth - the real ones will feel slightly gritty, fakes will feel smooth. If you look at a real pearl through a magnifying glass or jewels loupe, you will see the surface is very rough Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 10:47:51 -0400 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: sewing goodies I'm having a hard time finding a quick pictorial reference in my library . . I know there is a book currently in print that covers sewing notions through the ages, you'll have to check the books in print file at the library. The catalog nancy's notions has offered them in the past, with an illustration of a Victorian one as a side bar. the clip that holds the fabric in that illustration looked like a little bronze bird with a spring clothespin type mouth. The modern one I have has a rediculously complex spring clip, when a spring clothespin would serve. Regarding the nail in the table approach, a felted wool cloth would hold up to such treatment quite well, but I _imagine_ a loop of thread or ribbon through the end of the seam would serve a more fragile fabric better. Wish I could be more help. Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 12:45:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Katherine L. Rodman" Subject: Re: odd sized patterns for men and women Hopefully this message find you all well and happy. I am a bit behind in my reading as I am in the middle of a show build so please bear with me if this post refers to extremely old topics. An earlier post was discussing silk and it's different properties. For those of you who would like to get a better look at the different silks, Rupert, Gibbon and Spider has a sample packet of silk swatches that you can purchase for around 10 dollars. This packet includes swatches of almost every extant weaving of silk and is a wonderful reference guide. They predominantly sell to painter/dyers so most of their fabric is undyed, (not dyed, natural, colorless). They do not have an e-mail address, however, their slow mail address is: Rupert, Gibbon, and Spider P.O. Box 425 Healdsburg, CA 95448 1-800-442-0455 They also have packets of other cellulose fabrics, however, I do not own one of those so I cannot attest to the quality. The silk swatch packet is excellent and it keeps me from making alot of embarrasing mistakes. On the dyeing and stamping posts, Deb Dryden's "Fabric Painting and Dyeing for the Theatre" is once again back in print. As the title says it is mostly for the theatre, however, I'm sure the techniques can be modifyed for period reenactments groups. If anything, it is an excellent research guide. ISBN # 0-435-08624-3 One last thing. A good friend of mine is looking at starting a patterning business in which she would pattern period garments for hard to size (I.E. large and tall men and women) people. She asked if I would post this to see if anyone would be interested in this service. Her training is as a cutter/draper for the theatre and I have been impressed by her attention to detail in the past. If anyone is interested in this service, please let me know and I will pass the information along. She hopes to create a line of these patterns similar to Past Patterns and Folkwear Patterns but hopefully they will be easier to use. (I find Folkwear more difficult to use than just draping the garment myself.) If anyone has any suggestions about how she might get started, please pass them along as well. Thank you all for your time, Kat Katherine L. Rodman Gainesville, FL afn25136@freenet.ufl.edu "Historical accuracy and costume design do not neccessarily go hand in hand" John Conklin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 12:19:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Re: sewing goodies The Clothilde catalog usually has a third had thingy. (If the Clothilde number hasn't been given here in the last couple of months someone scream and I'll go dig mine up--it's full of lots of neat sewing goodies so everyone ought to have one anyway.) *******************************************************************q******** Sarah E. Goodman goodston@well.sf.ca.us goodston@netcom.com goodston@river.org Senior Designer & Chief Cat Herder, Wee Cottage, Daly City, California, USA *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 06:29:07 -0400 From: GiulianaLG@aol.com Subject: Re: Pearls & Teeth (Sarah E. Goodman) commented yesterday that "...[fake pearls] feel different from real pearls if you bite them, although I'm not sure how. (The grandmother who passed along this wisdom did not own any fake pearls so couldn't demonstrate.)" Just for reference, you can scrape the coating off a fake pearl with a tooth, but it mars the bead permanently. The best method (and most likely the one mentioned by your grandmother, Sarah) is to run the pearls over your front teeth gently, if they feel smooth, they're fake... real pearls have a very slightly rough texture that you can sense this way. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 17:47:14 -0400 From: Gaelscot@aol.com Subject: Re: naughty ladies Before we end our discussion of illicit sex for women, I wanted to add a little bit of info I got long ago from a book whose title I do not remember. I'm afraid I don't even remember the century, but I believe it was the 1600s. It might be the one mentioned earlier. Anyway, the book said that among the lower classes, pre-marital sex was probably about as common as extra-marital sex, and that illegitimate children were consequently pretty common. When asked to name the father (for legal records, I believe -- did I mention this was England we're talking about?), the girls invariably said they were assaulted by a stranger on the road. Apparently a convenient fiction that no one really believed. Sorry for not backing this up with evidence. Just to make this costume-related: does anyone know what sort of clothes women wore while they were pregnant in the 15th century? I've recently seen some Botticelli paintings of the Madonna (after she's had a baby, obviously) that show her wearing a sort of houppelande with lots of material pleated to a narrow collar. This opens in the front center for nursing. It's worn straight or with a high belt. It seems logical to wear during pregnancy as well as after. Was this a common garment or just one Botticelli liked to paint? Thanks -- Gail Finke/Myfanwy gaelscot@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 21:25:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Kerri Potratz Subject: Thai silk Hi. I am looking for the address for Thai Silk. I know it has been posted before, but my server dumped my inbox and now I need the address. Thanks in advance! (I promise to save it this time!) / \/ \ *Kerri Potratz**University of South Dakota* / /\ \ *Kpotratz@sunfish.usd.edu \ \/ / \/ ==If I be waspish, best beware my sting!== Shrew, II.i ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 00:15:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sarah E Cloud" Subject: Tudor Turmoil Greetings, wise readers. I have been recently inspired to try my (rather inexperienced) hand at making a Tudor gown (ca. Henry VIII). I am quite confident about my ability to make a fine-looking, acceptably historically accurate gown. However, I have a few questions about specifics. (Note: I am on a college-student budget, and suffer a dearth of specialty sewing stores--I rely on Jo-Anne's and So-Fro!) 1. Is the popular lightweight plastic(?) boning, which is sold in fabric stores in rolls for a couple of bucks, a decent item to use for boning a Tudor corset? I know 'tis heinously historically innacurate, but this is what my budget and locale offer me. 8-) 2. I believe Tudor corsets were fastened and tightened by lacing. Was this lacing achieved by use of grommets? And again--are the grommets that I see in the chain fabric stores of acceptable historical accuracy? 3. I read somewhere that by the Tudor period, hooks and eyes had come into use for apparel fastening. And, yet again, la question--are the hooks and eyes, about a half-centimeter in length, of various metals, that are carried in fabric stores the kind of hooks and eyes that might have been in use for Tudor fashions? I will appreciate any advice, on these or other matters, that might be offered. I have really enjoyed reading this mailing list--have learned a lot already!--and plead patience with my beginner status. 8-) Thank you...! Sarah Cloud cloudsar@pilot.msu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 00:46:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Re: Tudor Turmoil > 1. Is the popular lightweight plastic(?) boning, which is sold in fabric stores > in rolls for a couple of bucks, a decent item to use for boning a Tudor corset? It is NOWHERE near stiff or strong enough for your main boning (although I know some folks who use stronger stuff only at the places that really take a lot of stress and fill in with feather-boning). Better choices: go to someplace that delivers refrigerators and see if you can get some of the metal strapping (which you will need to cut and do something with the edges of--plastic tool-handle dip works) or go mail order to Raiments or someone for decent steel boning. (If they haven't been mentioned here in the last month or so let me know and I'll dig up the catalog) Whale bone would, of course, be best but it's unobtainable and not very PC. No one makes a decent plastic whale bone substitute, which is a pity. > 2. I believe Tudor corsets were fastened and tightened by lacing. Was this > lacing achieved by use of grommets? And again--are the grommets that > I see in the chain fabric stores of acceptable historical accuracy? No one is going to see the things, so if you are worried about looks, not to the skin authenticity, don't worry about it. > 3. I read somewhere that by the Tudor period, hooks and eyes had come into > use for apparel fastening. And, yet again, la question--are the hooks and > eyes, about a half-centimeter in length, of various metals, that are carried > in fabric stores the kind of hooks and eyes that might have been in use > for Tudor fashions? Again, no one is likely to see them if you cut things right. (The Tudor ones are hand made and the metal doesn't have the shiny finish look of modern ones, or the little catch-dealy on the hooks, but the principal is the same.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 00:49:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Ladies in Waiting > Just to make this costume-related: does anyone know what sort of clothes > women wore while they were pregnant in the 15th century? Based on NO research whatsover (besides what I know from Anthro about some non-Western village level cultures, where what I'm hypothesising historical is true) I'd assume that the concept of separate maternity/nursing clothing is fairly recent. When one aquires, at best, a new outfit or two a year, and when the culture (and availability of control over the situation) encourages women--once wed-- to be either pregnant or nursing most of the time, the "normal" women's garment's ought to accomodate this. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 12:29:31 +0000 From: "GILLIAN RICHARDS (02) 716 3712" Subject: Pinchbeck - and old drugs Dear List Readers (from whom I gain so much knowledge) 1) Has anyone heard of "Pinchbeck", supposed to be a Victorian secret invention by Mr Pinchbeck that imitated gold? (And as the secret died with the man, is therefore rather valuable today)? 2) (Sorry - this isn't strictly h-costume, but is vaguely related) I am presenting a talk to a dinner group of 50 for 10 minutes based on "Pharmacy, medicine, drugs and cures over the ages" and intend regaling my audience with authentic drug-style recipies for wart-cures, curse-removers and beauty products. (You know the sort - "wash the hands in a silver basin by the light of the first moon"). I will be wearing my alchemist's robe and looking suitably sinister. If people have authentic strange-sounding "cures", "Medicinal advertisements" and "Medicines" from ANY period in History (including those wonderful ones from the C19 that promise cures from the most outrageous diseases) could you please send me the text/recipie and the date or source it comes from? Private e-mail to gillian.richards@tafensw.edu.au. Your contribution will be gratefully acknowledged. Your 'umble servant Gillian Richards gillian.richards@tafensw.edu.au - use this, not the garbage that sometimes appears. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 08:37:10 -0400 From: Joe Marfice Subject: Re: Samite & Shot Silk On Mon, 18 Sep 1995 Susan Fatemi wrote: >> Could someone please explain what shot silk is?? I'd really like to know. >> I always wondered what "samite" is too (Lady of the Lake). Me, too! And Teresa Shannon replied: >Shot silk has a variety of names, it is silk with one colour weft and >another coloured warp creating an iridescent effect were the fabric >changes colours dramatically depending on the fall of the garment and >were the grain is. Quite stunning. If you need the 14thc. english >names, I have them. Please post these, or let me know offline. | Broom, at The Lady Perrine | aka Joe Marfice | Ministerium honor est. \|/ which means "Sewing is so much easier when I use the sharp end." /|\ 513-222-2330 233 Perrine Street //|\\ af289@dayton.wright.edu Dayton (my fayre citee), OH 45410 ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 1995 09:47:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Library - Vineland Research Station Subject: Re: pinchbeck A source on the history of jewelery might be the best source of info on pinchbeck. As I recall, pinchbeck was either a late 17thc./early 18th c. invention. My impression is that pinchbeck pieces are valuable today because as "junk jewellery" not many have survived. According to the authority I read, there is also a lot of confusion and error over the use of the term "pinchbeck" even among antique jewellery dealers Sheridan Alder ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 09:49:00 -0400 From: Joe Marfice Subject: Re: Marriage Ages In Medieval England, at least, a child was considered "legitimate" if the parents were married _before_birth_, and not just conception. Furthermore, a child could be legitimized by being declared "legitimate" by a noble father (at least, and perhaps also for freemen, but I have no proof of this); this latter provision allowed "legitimate bastards" to inherit. My memory is that these were forbidden to inherit when there were in-marriage legitimate heirs, but it provided a last-ditch alternative for fathers who may not otherwise have had inheritors surviving. The last name could also be given to such bastards. Now, this covers the Lady Scrope's daughter, when her girth gives away her new hobby with the Lord Mowbray, but naturally poor Meg the Smythe's daughter is still pregnant, penniless, and punished by the Church (and potentially civic authorities) when the monk gives her a pretty pin or two (Chaucer's inference of the gifts an unchaste monk uses to seduce young lasses--he then goes on to find them husbands if they should swell). | Broom, at The Lady Perrine | aka Joe Marfice | Ministerium honor est. \|/ which means "If you can read this you're a clerke." /|\ 513-222-2330 233 Perrine Street //|\\ af289@dayton.wright.edu Dayton (my fayre citee), OH 45410 ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 1995 09:42:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Library - Vineland Research Station Subject: RE:RE: sewing goodies - good book Unfortunately my copy is at home, but the best source (that I've seen) on sewing tools is by Gay Ann Rogers. I THINK it's called "An Illustrated History of Sewing Tools". I re-created a c. 1800 sewing box (with sewing tools (mostly) of that period, with it's help. Sheridan Alder ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 06:57:18 -0700 From: Stella Nemeth Subject: Re: Quilting an underskirt >Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 04:10:03 -0400 >From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) >Subject: ermine & tudor > > > I have one more question: I plan to machine quilt the underskirt >and sleeves (and partlet). Is there anything I should be aware of? Any >potential difficulties? To make sure my lines are straight, I plan to >pencil in ruled lines on the lining fabric, then sew along them. No! No, no!!!!! Please, please quilt the underskirt from the top of the fashion fabric, not from the lining side! In fact, I'd do it this way. Cut out the skirt panels leaving about an inch extra on each seamline and an extra inch (maybe more) at the hem. Build your sandwich. Fashion fabric on top, batting and lining. Use safety pins to hold the sandwich together. Now for the quilting. Use thread the color of the fashion fabric on the top and the color of the lining on the bottom. This will produce a dimpled appearance which will look like hand quilting. Test this out on scraps do see if you like the way it looks and adjust as needed. Use 100% cotton thread, not the cotton wrapped polyester and not the nylon thread that is sometimes used in quilts that are machine quilted. You won't like the texture the nylon thread gives you in a wearable garment. If you are quilting straight lines invest in a walking foot for your machine. (Nancy's Notions has cheap ones.) And you might want a set of those blue "bicycle clips" if the skirt panels are particularly large to control the "bundle" you will be making. Also buy a quilting quide. This is a funny looking piece of metal that allows you to follow the old quilting line to create a new perfectly parallel one. Chalk on ONE line through the widest part of the skirt panel. You probably ought to sew in one direction only to control the creeping that will almost certainly happen anyway. Sew from the center out. By the way, designs that are not made up of straight lines might actually be easier to do than the simple straight lined designs you are considering. >(P.S.--I told my boyfriend and my roommate about my undertaking...they're >trying to figure out where to hide for the next week or so!) If you quilt that underskirt from the lining side they may be afraid to every come back. When you see the first "tuck" on the lining that happens anyway, you will understand why you needed to quilt from the top. Stella s.nemeth@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #201 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!