From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #202 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Monday, September 25 1995 Volume 3, Number 202 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: Fake Pearls was RE: Authenticity 42nd highlanders RE: dentistry Re: origin of "tabby" Re: damage repair/re-weaving RE: Authenticity RE: Authenticity Re: chenille embroidery floss? Re: chenille embroidery floss? Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #199 Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #200 Re: Tudor Turmoil Dickens Fair Re: Tudor Turmoil Third hand Re: Tudor Turmoil Re: chenille embroidery floss? Odd-sized costumes Spectacles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 09:16:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Re: Fake Pearls was RE: Authenticity > > > pearl nacre is overlaid. On others, the process is glass or plastic. Good > > fake pearls are HEAVY and make a sound like glass beads but muted slightly. > > Good fakes also have knots between each pearl. > > They also feel different from real pearls if you bite them, although I'm > not sure how. (The grandmother who passed along this wisdom did not own > any fake pearls so couldn't demonstrate.) > Real pearls feel like sand grit on your teeth, fake ones are generally smooth and not as gritty. Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:05:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kathleen Jennifer Mcnulty" Subject: 42nd highlanders Does anybody out there know where I can obtain a pattern for a 42nd RHR coatee from 1775? I need to make one for my father. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 10:48:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Deb Subject: RE: dentistry >I will also note that tooth-cleaning is not a modern invention. In the >late 12th century, Giraldus Cambrensis noted of the Welsh that they are >"constantly cleaning [their teeth] with green hazel-shoots and then >rubbing them with woollen cloths until they shine like ivory". > >Heather Rose Jones Neat fact -- I'll hang onto that. However, I wonder if "constantly cleaning" means every day, or "they did it before every formal occasion" so that the teeth were a part of their costume decoration. If everybody else DIDN'T polish their teeth at all, then even "special occasions" would have seemed like "constantly". Any further info? Deb Baddorf baddorf@fnal.gov ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 13:34:35 EST5EDT From: EVANKLEY@LEGACY.Calvin.EDU Subject: Re: origin of "tabby" - ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: MerrimacGA@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:54:22 -0400 To: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com Copies to: margritt@mindspring.com Subject: Re: origin of "tabby" To Margritte: I never thought this book of mine would come in handy for this. According to The Cat Lover's Yearbook by Joan Moore, published by Smithmark in 1993: "The name 'tabby', used to describe the markings of a striped or brindled cat, comes from the name of the Attibiah district of Baghdad. Jews living there once made a high-quality silk with black and white watery pattern. Exported to Britain, the fabric became known as 'tabbi' silk." I wonder, is this the same story you heard before? Anyway, glad to help. Mary Macdonald Does anyone know the date of origin of this fabric? Elaine ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 1995 11:31:12 U From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Re: damage repair/re-weaving Reply to: RE>damage repair/re-weaving cloth Les, There are professional re-weavers in most metropolitan areas, and they can usually be found in the yellow pages of your phone book. If not, go to the best men's clothing store you can find and ask them where to take the garment. Get an estimate before you authorize the work. Re-weaving is not cheap. I know a couple of good ones in my area, peninsula south of San Francisco, and would cheerfully recommend them if they would be geographically convenient for you. Carole Newson-Smith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:44:10 -0700 From: Linda.McAllister@Eng.Sun.COM (Linda McAllister) Subject: RE: Authenticity > (Which brings up the interesting question of does anyone know how they > made "pearls" and other simulated jewels (which I'm sure were used in > clothing if not as jewelery)? Until I thought about it I would have > assumed that the art of making paste gems is pretty old, but one > reflection, I'm not sure when the use of silvering on the back of glass > came in--resumedly before that one used faceted glass but it didn't have > the "fire" of good rhinestones.) > The novel, _Pearlhanger_, by Jonathan Gash, has the protagonist making fake Baroque pearls according to a tried-and-true old forger's method. It involved making an emulsion from fish scales and gum, and (if I recall correctly) building up a pearl layer by layer. linda ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 11:18:51 TZ From: Edward Wright Subject: RE: Authenticity | > I think it would have been difficult to own more gowns than | > Elizabeth | | Well, I have more gowns (or at least outfits) than she did (AND a nicer | bathroom) but within period I agree. Really? By the end of her reign, if I recall correctly, the royal wardrobe was reported to include something like 4,000 gowns. My congratulations on your good fortune. :-) ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 1995 15:30:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Library - Vineland Research Station Subject: Re: chenille embroidery floss? Does anyone out there have a source for chenille embroidery floss? It seems to have been used during the Regency (I use the term loosely) on both gowns and schoolgirl silk pictures. In our area hobby stores look at you blankly if you ask about it. I'd like to do a Regency gown with an embroidered hem and I was wondering if it's still available. Sheridan Alder library@onrsvi.agr.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 12:54:28 -0700 From: erin1@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erin Harvey Moody) Subject: Re: chenille embroidery floss? >Does anyone out there have a source for chenille embroidery floss? It seems >to have been used during the Regency (I use the term loosely) on both gowns >and schoolgirl silk pictures. In our area hobby stores look at you blankly if >you ask about it. I'd like to do a Regency gown with an embroidered hem and >I was wondering if it's still available. > >Sheridan Alder >library@onrsvi.agr.ca Try LACIS, they specialize in costuming and needleworking. 2982 Adeline Street, Berkeley CA 94703 (510) 843-7290, 843-7178. They mail order, have a conservation shop and a large retail store. The catalogue is a must for any costumer or needleworker. Erin Moody ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 13:29:10 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #199 Off the wall comment, but related to discussion of abortificants (?). when I was expecting, my father-in-law, a european trained physician, warned me against eating parsley soup (a Persian dish), as too much parsley could cause contractions. Also, I wasn't to go swimming if the water was too cold, for the same reason. Susan Fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu p.s. If Julie Adams could e-mail me privately, I understand that you are interested in Middle Eastern costume also, and could perhaps advise me. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 13:37:48 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #200 Re: fake pearls. Supposedly, if you rub pearls against your teeth (not bite them), fake pearls will be smooth and real pearls (incl. cultured presumambly) will be slightly rough. I only found this out after I got caps, so I don't know if it's true! I watched "Lady Jane Grey" with Helena Bonham Carter on the weekend, and in one scene, Mary Tudor (not yet queen) looks at her thru' a lorgnette. It struck me as anachronistic, but I don't know alot about the details of the tudor period. Were people wearing spectacles by 1550?? susan fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 16:14:37 -0700 From: erin1@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erin Harvey Moody) Subject: Re: Tudor Turmoil Barbara said: >Regarding the use of gromets: I encourage people to learn to do hand eyelets >_not only_ because they are more period, but beacause they are kinder to your >fabric and produce a sturdier garment. I have watched a zillion gromets, >even those stitched-over, chew through lacings and eventually the garment, >leaving a difficult-to-repair hole. When making an eyelet, if an awl is used >to push the threads aside to create a hole, the fabric is made stronger by >the compaction(is that a real word?) of the threads, and the stitches of the >eyelet, instead of being made weaker by cutting a hole to insert a gromet. I agree. If you are taking the time to construct a period garment where eyelets would be used for lacing, either make them by hand, use a machine buttonhole or use high quality grommets (not those cheap Dritz variety) and an awl. I make Victorian corsets and I have made many period costumes. The corset grommets incur alot of strain and I have not had any come out yet. I use high quality grommets (size 2 I believe), I "finesse" the fabric with an awl in order to move the threads around the eyelette and then I use a RUBBER mallete to hammer them in place. The areas people go wrong with grommetting: using cheap grommetts/eyelettes, cutting the fabric to make the hole, and over hammering them out of shape. If you are using many layers of fabric or a vey tight weave, cut only 1 THREAD at a time when making the hole (still with an awl). I cut no more than 4 threads in my fabric for corsets (2 layers of coutil) and I try to cut none at all if possible. If you are able to maintain the integrity of the fabric, it will hold up to alot more wear and stress. Erin Moody ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 13:02:28 TZ From: Edward Wright Subject: Dickens Fair I found this on the net. For anyone who's interested: **************************************** The Great Christmas Fair of Charles Dickens London returns to Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco **************************************** To all participants and patrons of the Dickens Christmas Fair: Once upon a Christmas time on Pier 45 in Fisherman's Wharf in the city of San Francisco, the holiday spirit of Charles Dickens London was brough to exhilirating, adventurous life throughout the festive season. Then, in 1989 the earth did shake and the Dickens Christmas Fair was no more. We who loved it were saddened and greatly missed: o Waltzing in Fezziwig's Dance Parlor o Singing along in the Victoria and Albert Bijou Music Hall o Christmas feasting on sugar plums, stuffing and fish & chips o Lifting our ale and our spirits in Mad Sal's Dockside Ale House o Raising our voices in the Christmas Carols o Shopping for fine hand crafts and Victorian manufactories o Other festive delights too numerous to mention from chimney sweeps to melodrama Thanks to the fine folks at the Port of San Francisco the broken pier is finally mended. Please send us the experiences most memorable to you throughout the 20 years of our fair's Christmasing around the bay area. The creator of both the Dickens Christmas Fair and the Renaissance Pleasure Faire, Phyllis Patterson, has gathered a few hundred Christmas Keepers to once more bring to life the London of Charles Dickens at Christmas time. Under the name 'Timegames' they will produce the event. Your favorite memories are welcome. We'll try to incorporate them all! Send your suggestions and any interests you have in being involved directly to LindaMJohn@aol.com Please include Who you are and Where we can send more information and if you want to be deeply involved, say How. We need your responses by October 15. For those of you interested in participating with Victorian handcrafts, Victorian manufactories or Victorian games, please respond by October 1. The Great Christmas Fair of Charles Dickens London opens the weekend after Thanksgiving and continues for 6 weekends. *** The Great Christmas Fair of Charles Dickens London *** is co-sponsored by Timegames and the Port of San Francisco. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 18:51:11 -0400 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: Tudor Turmoil Regarding the use of gromets: I encourage people to learn to do hand eyelets _not only_ because they are more period, but beacause they are kinder to your fabric and produce a sturdier garment. I have watched a zillion gromets, even those stitched-over, chew through lacings and eventually the garment, leaving a difficult-to-repair hole. When making an eyelet, if an awl is used to push the threads aside to create a hole, the fabric is made stronger by the compaction(is that a real word?) of the threads, and the stitches of the eyelet, instead of being made weaker by cutting a hole to insert a gromet. I hate to see people put alot of time, energy and money into a garment with a fatal flaw. On a different note, really big hooks and eyes without catch-thingies can be obtained from old furs and coats. Root around in second hand shops, you may come up with a tin of more primative hooks and eyes. Brenda (now I know were my grandmother got those funny calluses) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 19:03:20 -0400 From: Qltrathart@aol.com Subject: Third hand Being very new to this list and to costuming I'm somewhat hesitant to add my 2 cents worth but here goes.... In my 'real' love, quilting, I complete many of my projects by hand. When I have a long seam to hand piece, I use my 'third hand'. It's really a pillow, stuffed firmly, which fits in my lap. I pin the right part of my seam (the part I've already stitched) to the pillow with 1 or 2 pins. This leaves my hands free to sew a seam with appropriate tension. Every 6" or so I shirt the piece on the pillow to keep the tension fairly smooth. It is more convienient for me than a sewing bird since I can use it away from a table and it offers a place (other than the couch-ouch!) to hold pins and needles not in use. If I don't have my special pillow available I have substituted a regular couch pillow but I prefer the feel of my special pillow. Thought this might help those who don't own a sewing bird. I'm really enjoying this list and share much of the historical information with DH who is a history buff. This list is good training for me because my 9 year old is determined to live at the time of the Civil War and wants his uniforms to be as authentic as possible. Sadly I realized this weekend I'm going to have to begin constructing another one soon! I've let out the 6+ inches I added to the sleeves and pants! Okay, I'll sit back now and resume lurking. :-) -Helen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 20:52:27 -0500 From: deirdre@deeny.MV.COM (Deirdre) Subject: Re: Tudor Turmoil > Whale bone would, of course, be best but it's unobtainable > and not very PC. No one makes a decent plastic whale bone > substitute, which is a pity. This is the second time today I've heard someone refer to something not being done because it's not very PC. Since the first was on a television show (discussing ivory) where I couldn't respond, I feel it's best to respond here. We have been discussing the use of fur which also isn't very PC but I haven't heard any complaints either. The reason I wouldn't use whale bone (unless it had been around long enough to be a bona fide antique) would be about the same reason I wouldn't use genuine ivory or eat horse meat: because I respect those animals. I do, however, believe in the use of fur, at least up to a point. While the synthetics are very "PC" these days, I believe they are, long term, more destructive to the environment. Plastics (and therefore faux fur) are made from oil which is, so far as we know, non-renewable. Fur is a renewable resource. _Deirdre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 18:51:17 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: chenille embroidery floss? :Does anyone out there have a source for chenille embroidery floss? It seems :to have been used during the Regency (I use the term loosely) on both gowns :and schoolgirl silk pictures. In our area hobby stores look at you blankly if :you ask about it. I'd like to do a Regency gown with an embroidered hem and :I was wondering if it's still available. I saw it last week at Mindy's Needlework shop in the 5th St. Market in Eugene, OR. I know that she does mail order and telephone orders. I tried to find the tel# and address, but couldn't. You could try calling information (the area code is 503 for a while yet) and asking for the telephone number. Mindy's also has a number of other very interesting things like silk ribbons, silk floss (shiny and matte), linen thread for embroidery and of course, wools and cottons. I was very impressed at what her tiny shop held! Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 23:31:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Katherine L. Rodman" Subject: Odd-sized costumes Thank you to all who responded. I am sure my friend will be quite happy to hear there are so many people out there who would purchase her patterns. One note: I am hearing from alot of people that they have problems adjusting commercial patterns to fit themselves. I have spent the last five years studying costume construction and adjusting commercial patterns still gives me fits but I have a lovely book that a good friend gave me that is a life saver. It is a Simplicity Sewing Book, I have one that dates from the 40's and a more in depth one that dates from the mid-50's(and before anybody asks, no, I will not sell them). These two books are wonderful. They have a nice section on pattern manipulation that is extremely easy to follow and some easy to follow instructions on sewing for people who are just getting started. Asks your Moms (or check your closets) these are wonderful books that are great sewing references to have around. Good Luck!!!! Kat Katherine L. Rodman Gainesville, FL afn25136@freenet.ufl.edu "Historical accuracy and costume design do not neccessarily go hand in hand" John Conklin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 00:45:05 -0500 From: deirdre@deeny.MV.COM (Deirdre) Subject: Spectacles Susan Fatemi said: > I watched "Lady Jane Grey" with Helena Bonham Carter on the > weekend, and in one scene, Mary Tudor (not yet queen) looks > at her thru' a lorgnette. It struck me as anachronistic, but > I don't know alot about the details of the tudor period. Were > people wearing spectacles by 1550?? Not commonly, given the cost of lensmaking. However, spectacles were being made in the manner they were up until 1910 or so as early as 1260. The first commercial book on lensmaking was published in 1591 in Frankfurt. Lensmaking was a specialization for some Venetian glassmakers, who made them for sailing expeditions (e.g. spotting scopes used to see land and water features). In 1610, Galileo commissioned a telescope from a Dutch company supplied with Venetian glass lenses in the appropriate sizes. So, yes, it would have been period, though I can't specifically recall an example of a lorgnette. Due to the expense of the lens, it would have been as much a fashion accessory as a long strand of pearls or a few yards of fine lace. We don't think a lot about glass now, but in Renaissance Venice, if a glassmaker attempted to leave the state, the Doge sent out a squad of hit men to preserve the state secrets. _Deirdre (enamored with Ren Ven) ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #202 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!