From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #203 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, September 26 1995 Volume 3, Number 203 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Eye wear in 1550 Re: Pinchbeck - and old drugs Sewing Goodies Early medieval women's tunics Re: Spectacles Re: Eye wear in 1550 Re: handsewing vs. Machine sewing Re: Eye wear in 1550 Re: chenille embroidery floss: Mindy's Shop Info. appended (fwd) Jewelled Hems on getting your clothes (and hands?) dirty Musings: woodcut and rollers lorgnettes RE: Authenticity Re: Tudor Turmoil Museums in London area ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 Sep 95 13:05:27 EDT From: Rhane <74404.22@compuserve.com> Subject: Eye wear in 1550 Susan, <> Glasses were used in Europe in the early 1300s... so, yeah, she could be using them. Mary was *very* near-sighted! (why do you think she married Philip??? :D) Having not watched 'Lady Jane' in a long time I can't say about the style/make of the eyewear, but they were in use! (James Townsend and Son carries replica eyewear!) Rhane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 08:16:58 -0400 From: KenDawe@aol.com Subject: Re: Pinchbeck - and old drugs In a message dated 95-09-25 04:44:10 EDT, Gillian.Richards@tafensw.edu.au (GILLIAN RICHARDS (02) 716 3712) writes: >1) Has anyone heard of "Pinchbeck", supposed to be a Victorian > secret invention by Mr Pinchbeck that imitated gold? (And as the > secret died with the man, is therefore rather valuable today)? A quick gander at the Random House Unabridged tells us: "1. an alloy of copper and zinc, used in imitation of gold. 2. something sham, spurious, or counterfeit. --adj. 3. made of pinchbeck. ... [1725-35; named after Christopher Pinchbeck (d. 1732), English watchmaker and its inventor}" The dates show it pre-dates Queen Vic by a fair amount. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Sep 95 01:18:53 EDT From: "Dawn T. Jacobson" <74647.1271@compuserve.com> Subject: Sewing Goodies Pertaining to "sewing birds", Ken Dawe asked: >>Can you name a book or magazine with a picture or drawing? I get the screw clamp bit, but the rest is fuzzy. << There is a very good book by Sylvia Groves called _The History of Needlework Tools and Accessories_. Ms. Groves goes into great detail about virtually every historic type of needlework tool, and has an entire chapter devoted to sewing accessories, with several pages of photographs of sewing birds and sewing clamps. The book was originally published by Country Life Ltd. (London: 1966), and is out of print, but most libraries have at least 1 copy. I highly recommend it. Dawn Jacobson 74647.1271@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:51 CDT From: ROBERT@UIAMVS.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU Subject: Early medieval women's tunics Please pardon the length of this message. I need to include a lot of background for my questions. The book _Ancient Finnish Costumes_ / by Lehtosalo-Hilander, Pirkko-Liisa, Helsinki, Finland : Suomen arkeologinen seura, 1984, has a very interesting layout of a woman's undertunic. (See pp. 44-53 for "The Eura Costume". For those of you in the SCA, it may be easier to find _Compleat Anachronist_ #59, p.60 which gives some of the same information and EXACTLY the same pictures). The grave is from early 11th century, of a "rather tall" woman, about the age 45. The layout was based on an extremely small amount of archeological evidence (i.e. the warp ran up the arm). The layout was inspired by the layout of an unspecified leather garment. (I think this would be figure 435, p.355 in Hald's _Ancient Danish Textiles..._) Although in general I find transferring the construction of a leather garment to a cloth garment questionable, it did point them in a direction of an EXTREMELY efficient use of cloth made on a warp weighted loom (the type common in Finland at this time). The layout involves 8 pieces - a front & back in trapezoid shape, starting at the chest, 2 trapezoid arm pieces that meet in the center of the chest. (The front and back pieces are attached to the bottom of the arm pieces so that the slit in front is formed naturally by the gap between the sleeves, and there is a seam going across the chest.) The other four pieces are gores that go almost from wrist to ankle. The warp woven cloth could have been started AND finished with tablet weaving, which would mean all outside edges except the neck would have been finished seams. (Warning: if you try to scale up the diagram in the book, extend the arm pieces, to both add length and narrow the wrists). The Stuttgart Psalter (Carolingian, I forget the date) has quite a few depictions of women. The all are quite consistnt, except one on the verso of 72 (see also Owen-Crocker's _Dress in Anglo-Saxon England_, pp. 98-99). I have only seen a black and white fascimile (the only color fascimile that I am aware of is owned by New York University (not available for inter-library loan, and too far for me to travel)). I am wondering if the coloring of this picture would allow it to be a tunic with the above construction. I know of no reason why this picture should be a different garment, or perhaps undergarment given the context of the picture (the woman is representing the church, as the other deptictions of women commonly do in the Psalter). The seam looks like it falls below her breast in this depiction (perhaps to allow breast feeding?). I have not made a garment with in that style yet (the Eura dress design is comfortable), so I do not know if the dress would still be comfortable. Has anybody seen any other evidence for this construction technique? If anybody can see a color fascimile of the Stuttgart Psalter to tell if this is a seam, and if so if the wrists are the same color as the main body of the garment, I would really appreciate the information. Thanks for your help. ****************************** Wendy Robertson Serials Cataloging University of Iowa (319) 335-5894 wendy-robertson@uiowa.edu ****************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 11:22:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jim O'Connor" Subject: Re: Spectacles On Tue, 26 Sep 1995, Deirdre wrote: [snip] > Not commonly, given the cost of lensmaking. However, spectacles were being > made in the manner they were up until 1910 or so as early as 1260. The > first commercial book on lensmaking was published in 1591 in Frankfurt. > > Lensmaking was a specialization for some Venetian glassmakers, who made > them for sailing expeditions (e.g. spotting scopes used to see land and > water features). In 1610, Galileo commissioned a telescope from a Dutch > company supplied with Venetian glass lenses in the appropriate sizes. [snip]> > We don't think a lot about glass now, but in Renaissance Venice, if a > glassmaker attempted to leave the state, the Doge sent out a squad of hit > men to preserve the state secrets. > _Deirdre (enamored with Ren Ven) Philip Morrison of MIT did a 5 or 6 part TV series some years ago called the 'Ring of Truth'. It's very heavy stuff for a TV series in that it talks about the scientific method. In one of the early episodes he extensively covers the topic of lensmaking and the earliest use of spectacles, as well as Galileo's role in developing and using telescopes. Based upon my dim memory; he seemed to agree with the above information. The series is probably available through 'Signals' which is a source for PBS (Public Broadcasting System) tapes but it has perhaps only very limited application for historic costumes. There is a new series called appropriatley enough 'Renaissance' with the British actor Ian Richardson as the narrator. I just caught the first episode which coincidently was about Renaissance scientists especially about Galileo and his trouble with the Inquisition (nobody expects the Inquisition :). This appears to have more costumed vignettes and perhaps some of the Renaissance experts can comment upon the quality of same. Unfortunately, Ian Richardson appears in a well tailored modern double-breasted suit, he almost looks out of place not costumed as the Doge or some other high official. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 13:36:58 EST From: "laura yungblut" Subject: Re: Eye wear in 1550 > Glasses were used in Europe in the early 1300s... so, yeah, she > could be using them. Mary was *very* near-sighted! (why do you > think she married Philip??? :D) Having not watched 'Lady Jane' in > a long time I can't say about the style/make of the eyewear, but > they were in use! (James Townsend and Son carries replica eyewear!) > Rhane Who are James Townsend and Son, and how does one get in touch with them/get a catalog or flyer? Many thanks -- Laura Yungblut ********************************************************************** The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in a period of moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. Nemo me impune lacessit. Veni, vidi, visa. Get a room. Barney is the Antichrist. It's all Ray's fault. God save the ... never mind. ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:35:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Rhodry Subject: Re: handsewing vs. Machine sewing A machine with adjustable needle position. (Adjusts from the regular center position to the left or the right.) This feature is marvelous for rolled hems, narrow seams, piping, etc. - Rhodry rsaylor@pogonip.scs.unr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 14:37:53 -0500 (CDT) From: P_SHERYL@KCPL.LIB.MO.US Subject: Re: Eye wear in 1550 >Who are James Townsend and Son, and how does one get in touch with >them/get a catalog or flyer? > >Laura Yungblut Laura, Jas. Townsend & Sons, Inc. is a mail-order company that specializes in supplies for historic re-enactors. They carry mostly American History type items, but many of the things that they have would work in a number of different eras. They are definitely worth looking into. Every time that I have ordered from them, they have been courteous & helpful, and my orders usually arrive within 10 days. Their address is: Jas. Townsend & Sons, Inc 133 N. First Street PO Box 415-W Pierceton, IN 46562 1-800-338-1665 is the phone # Their catalog is free. They also have a web page: http://www.jastown.com/townsend/ HTH! Sheryl J. Nance Kansas City MO Public Library p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us ********************************************************************** The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in a period of moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. Nemo me impune lacessit. Veni, vidi, visa. Get a room. Barney is the Antichrist. It's all Ray's fault. God save the ... never mind. ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:51:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Cannon Subject: Re: chenille embroidery floss: Mindy's Shop Info. appended (fwd) Mindy's Needlepoint Factory 296 E. 5th Avenue Eugene, OR 97401 I hope this helps. -- cjc cjcannon@ucdavis.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 14:02:13 EST From: cthulhu.engr.sgi.com!sgi.engr.sgi.com!SMTPGWY!dlxibm!Liz_Jones Subject: Jewelled Hems On 20 Sept. Theresa Shannon wrote: Someone (my conscience who shall remain anonymous-this is a direct quote and quite perfect) has called to my attention that in medieval visual sources, hem trims on full-length gowns are virtually always in depictions of mythical, allegorical, or religious figures, and rarely if ever shown on 'real people.' It's possible they were never used in real life, and I have found no evidence yet that they were, but I haven't been looking hard. I anyone has any solid references I'd be interested in hearing about them. What about the portrait of Queen Henrietta, Charles I of England's wife. She is wearing a green satin (?) dress of about 1630 (?), and has pearled pattern all around the hem and down the front. Now that I think about it, I may have misinterpreted the post, as surely there a zillions of elizabethan portraits with trimmed and jewelled hems? Am I missing the point? Some questions: a student of mine intends to make an Italian camora from approx. 1480. I have made several and thought I was giving good advice, until we started discussing the structure of the skirt. I have always flat or cartridge pleated a straight length into the waist. She was planning on shaping the pieces to a more gored shaped. I had never received that impression from any of the perusing I have done, but thought to ask THE LIST for an opinion, as we are all students in this endeavor. Feedback, please - it may be too late for this one, but if there is evidence on either or both methods, we would be grateful for the future! Secondly: I will be in Europe in a month or so, specifically Paris area and Bracknell/London England. I have done the major museum circuit recently, but am interested in seeking out Medieval/ Renaissance collections of portraiture, costume or shoes. Can anyone tell me about the Conde collection in Chantilly, France, or the Costume Museum in Bath? Will they be worth my trek out to see them? Please give me some more suggestions in England (Catherine?) and France, as I am willing to travel a bit out of the way or keep it for the next trip. Also related: desperately seeking some out of print books, many by Batsford. In particular, 1400-1500 Gothic and Italian History of Dress series, and the 14th & 15th Century Costume edition by Batsford. (Sorry about vagueness, don't have biblio available). I'm also seeking any other treasures in Costume Books, and wonder if anyone knows of a GOOD book search service or store where one can find costume books in and out of print (in the UK or France). Forgot my name on the "leather roller/stamp" post: Liz Jones aka Damiana Illaria d'Onde ljones@datalogix.com (you can't reply, must address "fresh" each time) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Sep 95 01:41:33 PDT From: ke6isf@outlander (Dennis Allen Carr) Subject: on getting your clothes (and hands?) dirty Before you read this, please keep in mind that the phone line here has been down for some time, so anything I am responding to may have been sufficiently answered. Please bear with me, and thank you! =) Someone named Trac (tracy023@aol.com) was wondering about a numbered list of things pertaining to costuming, one of which was a question about wearing some sort of undergarment to keep the clothes from getting dirty As I've pretty much established in here indirectly, my experience on historical costume in general is pretty much ah....nonexistant. BUT.... I would assume that if the clothes didn't get that dirty, you probably weren't wearing them to some sort of Faire or reenactment. HOWEVER, if you really wanted to keep some of that wonderful (!) sweat off of the clothes, and weren't too worried about authenticity, you should probably look in the general direction of a cotton leotard. Then again, I don't know too many men who would care to wear one. If, God forbid, you would do this, take advice from a dancer: the cotton lycra flavor breathe pretty nicely. Nylon will be uncomfortable in hot weather. Nylon/Lycra (that shiny stuff you see in cycling shorts) breathes pretty nicely, but isn't quite as comfortable as natural fibers. And last, but not least, do NOT get black ones for use in hot weather. I think the reason is obvious. oh, BTW, they are quite comfortable when worn underneath cotton leggings! =) KE6ISF uublip!outlander!ke6isf@ccss.com Just say NO.J.! The only true Ben Franklin look-alike! Driving people insane since 1974.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 14:02:09 EST From: cthulhu.engr.sgi.com!sgi.engr.sgi.com!SMTPGWY!dlxibm!Liz_Jones Subject: Musings: woodcut and rollers On 20 Sep Julie Adams wrote: Somewhere I saw a Jost Amman woodcut (late 16th cent.) of guys with patterned rollers putting a pattern on flat strips of something (could have been paper though), and try as I might I can't seem to re-find that woodcut! Has anyone seen that one? Don't know how big the strips or rollers were in the woodcut, but I have done some research into leather embossing, and found that a common method of embossing leather at that time was with large wood, and then metal plates, perhaps rollers. There had to be a fair amount of pressure for the pattern to stay imprinted, and this seems to have been a much more common method of decoration than "cut" tooling. I do not presume to say that your "strips" might be leather, as I have never seen prints of either, but the relevant thought just popped into my mind! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 15:55:57 -0400 From: Gaelscot@aol.com Subject: lorgnettes I am very interested in the lorgnette question--I am an SCA member and blind as a bat without my glasses. There are many things that I am willing to do in the name of authenticity, but walk around without my glasses isn't one of them. Or hasn't been, until recently. Now I'm beginning to wonder if I couldn't have glasses of some kind that I could hold or wear on a belt chain, so I could look more period and still see tournaments and things. Obviously, wearing glasses only part of the time is more period than wearing them all of the time. But if I do try this, I want to look a little period, anyway. I will be getting new glasses soon, so I could sacrifice my old ones or get a second really cheap pair. Here are the options I have come up with so far, can anyone suggest anything better? 1) Take off the ear part and hang them from a chain 2) Buy a very small pair and do the same--so they'd be less obvious 3) Mount them in a mask of some kind and wear them on a chain or hold them on a stick. When did masks become fashion accessories? I have enough disposable income that I could probably buy a cheapo pair of glasses (my sight is so bad that even at the $39 stores they still cost about $80), but not enough for me to have someone grind me lenses and put them into those little folding wooden frames you see from time to time. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Gail Finke gaelscot@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 17:34:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: RE: Authenticity > Really? By the end of her reign, if I recall correctly, the royal > wardrobe was reported to include something like 4,000 gowns. Guess I got my numbers wrong--I'm only up to about an 8th of that so far. (Of course, I'm not at the end or my reign, either!) > My congratulations on your good fortune. :-) Not good fortune. Just pure pack-ratism. (And my stuff is no where near as nice as her's were--but then I haven't got anyone trying to buy my favor with pearls. On the other hand, to accumulate 4000 gowns in that day and age, even with lots of people feeding your habit, indicates a certain amount of pack-ratism on Liza's part, too.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 20:26:23 -0400 From: MLaventure@aol.com Subject: Re: Tudor Turmoil Regarding boning, two other sources are Enhancements Costume Supply P.O. Box 8604 Anaheim, CA 92812-0604 Catalog $2.00 Books,Underpinnings and supplies, millinery and wigs too. Hedgehog Handworks P.O. Box 45384 Westchester, CA 90045 Costuming supplies, books, needlework supplies, etc. Catalog $5.00 Both places have 1/4" steel and spirals as well as 1/2" steel and spirals. Also busks, end tips and hoop wire. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 17:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine.Keegan@ncal.kaiperm.org Subject: Museums in London area If you are interested in medieval shoes, etc... try and go to the Museum of London. They have this wonderful exhibit of '"tradesman's wares". Little displays of what a particular craftsperson would have in their shop as well as some of the end products. One of the exhibits is for a shoe maker. The whole museum is really well done. The Northhampton Leatherwork Museum and the Shoe museum in the same town are also very good. They aren't exactly close to London. The Leatherwork museum had a lot of interesting stuff. There was everything from shoes to jacks to an incredible 'moorish' screen. The shoe museum was mostly 18th and 19th century, but there are a great many shoes there. The lighting in the latter is terrible, so if you want to take photos, be warned. The Bath Costume museum is, of course, great. There isn't much you could consider 'medieval' there, but there is a really good doublet and a very nice shirt. They have a lot of 18th century court costumes. The book store is the kiss of death to your budget. They also have a good slide collection. While I have visited the Conde collection, I must admit that I mostly went there for the illumination. They have the hours of Etienne Chevallier there (as well as the infamous Tres Riche Heurs). We didn't go through the guided tour, so we only got to see 'half' the museum. France has a dizzying amount of musees. They have several lace museums, but I can only speak for the one in Bayeau which was small but really nice. You can watch while the workers do bobbin lace and other types at a very fast rate. If you make it to the Loire Valley area, stop in at Chinon Castle. The tableau figures are pretty scarey. They look like they were costumed during the early '70s. Go to Langeis for really good costumed figures. Sens cathedral has what they purport to be Becket's alb and robes. If they aren't, it's ok as they have a lot of textiles removed from various clerical graves (as well as some fascinating reliquaries...like the true cross, bits of the crown of thornes). Books: while you're on holiday, check the used book stores, especially in Bath. I found a lot of nice used books in the stores around the museums. The prices are a bit high by U.S. standards, but hey, at least you found a copy. OTOH, you can get some amazing deals, too. If you manage to make it to Oxford, after being impovrished at Blackwells, there are several used book stores that have/had incredible art and costume sections. If you make it all the way over to the Cornwall area, stop in at Taunton to see the small costume museum there. It tends to be focused around a theme. The time I was there, the theme was the Black Ascot races. It also has a neat Norman shell keep. Good view, no castle. In Paris (sorry for jumping around so much), the Cluny is a must. The famous horsetrappings are there as well as the Unicorn tapestries (sight, touch, smell...). I missed the decorative arts museum which is sort of attatched to the Louve, but I did see its bookstore. Bring lots of money. While we didn't get to it, close to Chantilly there is a musee of the Renaissance. If you do get there, please post a review. How far out of the way are you willing to travel??? the Visual History of the 14th and 15th Century costume book was at Lacis last time I was there. You might check with them on that one. If you want more information on museums, I highly recommend you get the Cambridge Guide to the Museums of Europe. I saw it listed in the last Barnes and Noble catalog. The index has a great cross reference. I used it extensively when we went to England the first time (back when it was the Guide to the Museums of Great Britain and Ireland) and it took me to some interesting, small museums that I normally wouldn't have known about. Have fun. Catherine Keegan (Ceridwen MacAoudhegain) syscxk@ncal.kaiperm.org ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #203 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!