From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #205 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, September 28 1995 Volume 3, Number 205 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: lorgnettes Re: Book & Questions RE: lorgnettes RE: Authenticity Re[2]: Book & Questions Re[2]: Authenticity DRAMA PUBLISHERS Re: Book & Questions RE: Authenticity Re: Authenticity Victorian Mourning Attire Knitting Re: Knitting Re: Knitting 1848-1852 Ballgowns Knitting and Children Museums in the UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:28:15 -0400 From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) Subject: Re: lorgnettes >>> I'm blind >>> as a bat without my glasses. There are many things that I am willing to do in >>> the name of authenticity, but walk around without my glasses isn't one of >>> them. >> >>Not that this is the solution for everyone, but this is why I wear >>contacts (which I almost never do out of costume or being really >>"dressy"). My contacts do not correct my vision anywhere near as much as >>my glasses do (because to do would require hard lenses, which can no not >>be worn part time) but they do correct to the point where I can walk >>through a crowd and find my companions at a party. Explaining that this >>was OK to my eye-doctor took some doing, though. > >This sound formiluar. I have 2 sets of contact, my close up contacts and my >far away contacts. Have to wear reading glasses with the far away contacts >and would not dare to drive a car with the close up contacts. My eye doctor >was very reluctant to give me any contacts until I told him that I would go >without my glasses any way and that some vision was better then none. >Amaryllis >aka:Barb I know we're getting _really_ off topic, but I just want everyone to know that bifocal contact lenses have been on the market for several years now. Kathleen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:42:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Gretchen Miller Subject: Re: Book & Questions Excerpts from internet.other.h-costume: 27-Sep-95 RE: Book & Questions P_SHERYL@KCPL.LIB.MO.US (690) > Drama Book Publishers. Since it is currently listed on their > WWW catalog, WWW catalog? Pray, post the URL!!! Thanks! toodles, gretchen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 13:29:30 TZ From: Edward Wright Subject: RE: lorgnettes | How about taking those old glasses to a shop to be ground down to a size | appropriate for those little folding wooden frames? Since they grind those | lenses to fit modern fashion frames (with a myriad of shapes) in just a few | minutes, a couple of estimates from Lenscrafters, Sears, et al (no | endorsements intended) on grinding the lenses down to circles of X diameter | (like for modern "granny" or "John Lennon" frames) should net a cheap job. | Hopefully. They grind lenses to fit modern frames in just a few minutes from standard-shape lens blanks. They do not grind down the diameter of the lens. That would change the base curve and make the lens unuseable. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:44:19 -0700 From: alisoun@adams.berk.net Subject: RE: Authenticity Sarah E. Goodman wrote: >On the other hand, to accumulate 4000 gowns in that >day and age, even with lots of people feeding your habit, indicates a >certain amount of pack-ratism on Liza's part, too.) I am away from my library, but I think it was Janet Arnold who indicated that a royal wardrobe was a state treasure in those times. Think of all the beautiful embroidered silks, the use of real gold and silver lace, and pearls everywhere (and don't drool on the fabric)! Elizabeth is reputed to have spent one quarter as much as Henry VIII on wardrobe and the wardrobe accounts certainly indicate much remaking and repairing going on. I have been immersing myself in the Folger and Stowe inventories lately, because I feel that in portraying an Elizabethan noblewoman with the surname of Fortescue, I probably should be able to discuss the Wardrobe with some familiarity... Pat LaPointe in Western Massachusetts Alisoun Fortescue of Maplehurst in the SCA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 15:21:42 PST From: Stacey_Weinberger@wadsworth.com Subject: Re[2]: Book & Questions > Drama Book Publishers. Since it is currently listed on their WWW catalog You can also get the catalogue the old fashioned way by calling Drama Books in New York at (212) 725-5377. It has other wonderful costuming books as well. Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 15:45:05 PST From: "Gail DeCamp" Subject: Re[2]: Authenticity Pat, What do you mean by Folger and Stowe inventories? How do we get to these? What's in them? Please, tell us more! Thanks, Gail DeCamp I have been immersing myself in the Folger and Stowe inventories lately, because I feel that in portraying an Elizabethan noblewoman with the surname of Fortescue, I probably should be able to discuss the Wardrobe with some familiarity... Pat LaPointe in Western Massachusetts Alisoun Fortescue of Maplehurst in the SCA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 16:51:07 -0600 From: Jon Haubenstricker Subject: DRAMA PUBLISHERS Here you go , enjoy Jon "Husband of Sewwer" Haubenstricker http://www.users.interport.net/~dramapub/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 20:25:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Kerri Potratz Subject: Re: Book & Questions On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Stephen Fraser wrote: > Hi! > > I'm new to this list but already find it really interesting and informative. > > I'm looking for a copy of an out of print book: > "Patterns for Theatrical Costumes" > by Katherine Strand Holkeboer > Englewood Cliffs, N.J. Prentice-Hall c 1984 It is't out of print...just very difficult to find. Try your local Barns and Nobles book store. They'll have to order it, but I just got mine this summer. If you need the ISBN number, I can look it up for you. Kerri Potratz Lady Hrosvitha SCA Vermillion SD ** and costume design student ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:46:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: RE: Authenticity > I am away from my library, but I think it was Janet Arnold who indicated that a > royal wardrobe was a state treasure in those times. If clothing was commonly included in wills (as it was) then this would definately be true under law. > Elizabeth is reputed to have spent one quarter as much as Henry VIII on wardrobe But he had ALL those wives to cloth! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 19:47:33 -0700 From: alisoun@adams.berk.net Subject: Re: Authenticity The Folger and Stowe inventories were transcribed by Janet Arnold in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd. Together, they are a list of all clothing, silk and personal jewels in the Wardrobe of Robes in July of 1600. The names Folger and Stowe were attached to them as a result of the location of the manuscripts. The Folger inventory is in the Folger Shakespeare Library in Washington, DC, and the Stowe inventory is in the Stowe collection at the British Library. Here's a sample entry for a petticoat from the Stowe inventory: Item one Peticoate of Watchet Satten laide allover with a bone lace of venice golde and silver and gardes of passamaine of like gold and silver bounde aboute lyned with yellowe Tapheta. I want one... These inventories, along with the warrants for wardrobe expenses, which show the ongoing expense and expended materials, are excellent and approchable primary sources for the statistical analysis of Elizabeth's fashion. Enjoy! Pat LaPointe ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 95 23:05:55 EDT From: "Dawn T. Jacobson" <74647.1271@compuserve.com> Subject: Victorian Mourning Attire Stacey Weinberger asked: >> What sorts of fabrics, colors, and trims would be appropriate (and available today) for victorian (1850-1865) mourning formal gowns? This wouldn't be for the funeral but for the period following the death of a loved one.<< Rules for mourning attire depended on your economic situation and who died, and how long ago the death occurred. The most popular fabrics for those able to afford a special wardrobe for mourning were bombazine, Henrietta cloth (a twilled wool similar to cashmere) and, of course, crepe. The crepe of the 19th Century was much different from the crepe of today--it was woven of silk yarn in the "gum" or natural state, with a very unpleasant, crinkly finish, would get "rusty" (fade to a nasty brownish-black color) very quickly, and smelled (by most reports) just awful. 8-( Check with a good fabric store specializing in wools; if you live in the Southern California area, try B. Black & Sons, Los Angeles. It may still be possible to buy bombazine and Henrietta cloth. For deepest mourning, the only trim allowed might be a wide band of crepe edging the veil. No other applied trim would be on the clothes and no jewelry would be worn except memorial jewelry (frequently made of jet or black glass). There would be no reason for any evening/ball clothes to be made for this period of mourning, as it was considered extremely inappropriate for a family to be entertaining or "out on the town." As the family emerged from deepest mourning, lighter-colored materials would be added to the unrelieved black (grey, lavender), until such time as the mourning period had passed (6 months to 2 years), and the family was ready to resume their lives and their previous wardrobes. _A Time To Mourn: Expressions of Grief in Nineteenth Century America_ by Martha V. Pike and Janice Gray Armstrong (The Museums at Stony Brook, Stony Brook NY: 1980) is a very good reference book on American mourning dress and customs. Dawn Jacobson 74647.1271@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 95 23:06:16 EDT From: "Dawn T. Jacobson" <74647.1271@compuserve.com> Subject: Knitting Stephen Frazer asked: >>And one other thing...were there such things as knit sweaters/tunics back then or is knitting relatively recent??<< According to the brief history of knitting in Nancy Bush's book _Folk Socks: The History & Techniques of Handknitted Footwear_ (Interweave Press, Loveland, CO: 1994), the oldest surving examples of knitted textile fragments (made from interlacing a single thread into a series of connected loops to create fabric) date from before 256AD, and were found at the site of the Syrian fortress city of Dura Europos (founded 280BC). These fragments are now in the collection of Yale University, and are very similar to Crossed Eastern Knitting. The oldest fragments of positively identified knitting date from 600AD to 800AD, and were liturgical gloves, made of wool, silk, or linen, and were produced in the Middle East. Knitting was brought back to Europe by returning Crusaders and by Muslim expansion into the Iberian Peninsula. Ms. Bush's book focuses on socks and stockings--after checking other reference sources in my library, I'm not willing to go out on a limb and say that knitting was used for anything other than the manufacture of socks and stockings. The earliest pattern I have for a garment other than a socks, stockings, caps, or mittens is from the early 1890s. Anne L. Macdonald, in her book _No Idle Hands: The Social History of American Knitting_ (Ballantine Books, New York: 1988), notes that knitting sweaters became popular as women (and men!) began to participate in athletic leisure-time activities (tennis, golf, bicycling, etc.) in the mid-1880s. For those knitters interested in history, I highly recommend Ann Macdonald's book. It is both a fascinating history of a very popular needle-craft, and a wonderful look at how women and knitting played a largely unseen part in American history. Dawn Jacobson 74647.1271@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 23:51:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Judy Gerjuoy Subject: Re: Knitting A History of Hand Knitting by Richard Rutt has a reproduction of a picture from shortly before 1400 of a knitting madona. She is knitting, using 4 needles, a shirt. There are a couple of other knitting madonas, but that one is the most conclusive. There are also some extant pre 1600 knitted caps. Jaelle jaelle@access.digex.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 23:05 CDT From: vbetts@gower.net (Vicki Betts) Subject: Re: Knitting At 11:06 PM 9/27/95 EDT, Dawn T. Jacobson wrote: The earliest pattern I have for a garment >other than a socks, stockings, caps, or mittens is from the early 1890s. >Dawn Jacobson >74647.1271@compuserve.com The May, 1864, Peterson's Magazine shows an illustration of a knitted jacket for a woman, and what would now be called a cardigan was brought up from the wreckage of the Arabia which sank in 1856 in the Missouri River near Kansas City. I don't know how much further back they would go. Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 03:08:26 -0400 From: MonicaShen@aol.com Subject: 1848-1852 Ballgowns Hello all, My name is Monica Shen and I've been lurking for a few months, enjoying the great knowledge being shared. I'm helping to costume a dance ensemble that will perform mid-nineteenth century dances of the European ballrooms (waltz, polka, mazurka, etc). The date range we are aiming for is 1848-1852 (petticoats, not hoops), and about 30 women need gowns. We'll probably have to make some sacrifices in accuracy for lack of funds, but the goal is stageworthiness, not reenactment. I hope that you might have some insight into ballgown construction! Questions: 1) Are cartridge pleats mandatory or are regular pleats acceptable? I have seen portraits of the period showing ladies in gowns that clearly have regular pleats at the waist (artistic license?). Were some gowns of the era cartridge pleated and others not? We are only making ballgowns, not day dresses, if that makes a difference. The simpler the sewing, the more dancers we will be able to costume. 2) If we use regular pleats, will we end up with the correct bell-shape instead of the incorrect cone-shape? Perhaps there are other undergarments that could help the dresses maintain the correct shape. 3) Do any of you have hand-me-downs that you'd like to sell? 4) Do you know of any places we could buy inexpensive fabrics in the San Francisco Bay Area? We are looking for the appearance of silk, but sturdier. I've already been to Hancock's in Cupertino and the San Jose Fabric Warehouse. Thank you in advance for you help and advice! Monica Shen Menlo Park, California monicashen@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 95 09:15:00 BST From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Knitting and Children Knitting In Tudor England men had to wear a knitted cap (shaped like a coif) on Sundays. Elizabeth switched to knitted hose around her accession to the throne, but most people continued to wear woven hose until late in her reign. Apart from that I don't know of any use of knitting in 16th century England. Children Someone asked me about baby's christening gowns from the 1530s. sorry, I've lost the posting. However, I cannot find much on special clothes for babies before the end of the century - the Cholmondley picture of the two women with their babies is about the first I can find. Anyone else got any info? Before that babies wore swaddling bands and are sometimes seen wrapped up like parcels, until old enough to wear cut down versions of adult clothing. Fustian Back into the cotton/wool argument! Fustian is a mixed cloth of linen and cotton. Linen is the warp (? long element) and cotton the weft (width of the fabric (sorry - I always get mixed up) because 16th century England (?Europe) had not figured out how to spin cotton to get a strong thread, so it was used with linen for strength. Cotton was mainly used as cotton wool for padding (that's what Janet Arnold said). Romeo and Juliet I understood that in Shakespear's source for the story, Romeo and Juliet were 16, so he emphasised their youth. Italy is almost always a place of corruption and decadance in Shakespear's work (and his contemporaries). This is clearly seen in Cymbaline, Posthumous Leonatus is exiled and goes to Italy and that is where he gets involved in the bet to test his wife, and from thence 'yellow' Iachimo (?name) comes to try and corrupt Innogen, and hides in a chest in her room! I imagine this section played like a pantomine, with the groundlings hissing at the Italian baddy. Did Italians play the same role as the English in American films? Caroline ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 95 09:17:00 BST From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Museums in the UK Try Nottingham for the Lace Museum and the Castle Museum also has a collection of 16th century blackwork, including the double collar (?make-up protector) which is in most of the books (unfortunately it was out on loan when I was there). Try the Undercroft Museum of Westminster Abbey for the effigies I was talking about - I haven't been there but have seen pictures, which are very interesting. Most of the medieval ones do not have clothes, but the faces are deathmasks (Charles II is good). The V&A has a good collection of post-medieval (ie not much to 16th century (nice embroidered shirt)) to very modern clothes, and a very good collection of early fabrics. Good blackwork on domestic goods. Hardwick House (now we really are getting out of the London area) has the Mary Queen of Scots embroideries. I understand Worthing Museum is holding an exhibition of underwear from the 1700s onwards (including an 18th century leather corset) from now to the end of November. I have just seen a note about it, and cannot guarantee quality. Good Luck Caroline 'The line is immaterial!' ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #205 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!