From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #214 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Sunday, October 8 1995 Volume 3, Number 214 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Australian Corset Boning grommets Re: Cording as Corset Stiffener Whale Bone? BTW Corsets International Dickens Fair Re: BTW Re: Corset boning Re: grommets Re: grommets RE: Coloured Leather Re: Corset boning Re: grommets 1866/7 Dress RE: grommets sources for books Re: Corsets International Yet Another Corset Query ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 09:27:19 +1000 From: Sarah Randles Subject: Australian Corset Boning For my fellow antipodeans complaining about the difficulty of getting steel corset bones - you can buy such a thing here (although they are probably imported) I know of one supplier in Adelaide and also someone who gets hers from a supplier in Sydney. Over the weekend I'll chase up the info, and post it on Monday. You may still have to mail order, but at least you'll be dealing with someone in the same country who can be easily rung up and talked to. Sarah **************************************************************************** ******** Sarah Randles ser@adminserver.canberra.edu.au Research Office Phone: (06) 201 2955 University of Canberra Fax: (06) 201 5381/5999 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:08:13 -0700 From: Heather Meadows Subject: grommets It's been mentioned here that when using grommets, avoid cheap [Dritz] grommets. I hate Dritz grommets, and they also don't come in small sizes... but I don't know where to get any others... I've looked in plenty of catalogs and specialty stores, but I haven't a clue. Where do you find them? Mail order is fine, though I love hearing about new sources in the Bay Area... - -Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 01:25:04 -0400 From: MerrimacGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Cording as Corset Stiffener Carole-- I'm not familiar with cotton Cro-Sheen. Is it stiff enough to use instead of boning? I would imagine if not that one could probably starch the cording. What do you think? Mary Macdonald ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 10:07:33 +1000 From: "GILLIAN RICHARDS (02) 716 3712" Subject: Whale Bone? THe correctness of the term Whalebone? Next you'll be setting Animal Liberation onto me for wearing moleskin trousers!* :-) + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + | Gillian Richards - TAFE NSW - (02) 716 3712 (space for ASCII | | aka: gillian.richards@tafensw.edu.au picture when I | | "The Midnight Fox", "Mummy" find the time!) | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + * For those not au fait with the term, it is a strong cotton excellent for trousers when you're on horseback all day. ------------------------------ Date: 06 Oct 95 09:00:00 BST From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: BTW The art of carving on whales teeth, bones and other 'marine ivory' is known as scrimshaw. There are some good examples from the Napoleonic prisoner held in the UK (Dover Castle springs to mind). It turns up in antique shops, but is also faked extensively! Straw embroidery The only example I've seen was in an exhibition of Russian clothes, mainly 19th century, I saw a few years ago. It was either on a middle class 'peasant' outfit, or a genuine 'peasant' outfit. The strangest examples were the court wear, both the clothes and illustrations, where traditional Russian clothes were worn with Victorian crinolines! I haven't heard or seen any examples of straw embroidery on Elizabethan clothes, but am willing to be enlightened! Another BTW Coming to work in the car this morning, they mentioned on the radio that a portrait of Arthur, Henry VIII's older brother, had been found and is now on show in the Tate Gallery, London. Caroline ------------------------------ Date: 06 Oct 95 02:38:45 EDT From: Gary Anderson <72437.674@compuserve.com> Subject: Corsets International In reply to: > Is someone from Raiments or any other corset bone supplier > reading the file? I wonder if you could address the problems of the > corsetmakers outside the US. Can you handle international orders? Hi, this is Gary from Raiments. Yes, we regularly ship internationally with no problems. We carry flat steel in 1/2 and 1/4 widths, lengths from 6 to 16 1/2 inches, and spiral steel in 1/4 for 6 to 14 inches. We also carry busks, laces, and bone casing. (Never used bone casing? It is flattened tubes of cotton, made to fit the corset bones with enough slack to stitch the edges down. This way you can avoid having to do the twill tape exercise.) Also we carry grommet kits (the good ones, not those cursed pliers), three finshes of grommets in 0 and 00, and corset coutil. (Never underestimate corset coutil, BTW. Those who wear corsets assure me it is better than the alternatives. Have to plead ignorance on the practical aspects of this, myself.) Also in the underpinnings category, we carry hoop skirts and the supplies to make them with, such as hoop wire and U-tips. We carry a bunch of corset patterns, plus premade Renaissance corsets. You have to actually see the pictures to evaluate if you want a particular design, but that is what the catalog is for (shameless plug). The only real grim aspect of international ordering is the surface vs air problem. Recently all rates were raised, again, and that shipping is expensive. But surface can take as long as 3 months, as we just found out, and a lot of our customers go ahead and ship air. The other thing they do is groups of them get together and order en mass. This cuts the shipping cost per person down. We have solved the customs aspect as well as it can be "solved" by learning the lingo of international shipping to avoid certain trigger words. Like "pattern", for instance. We all know what we mean by pattern. But if you don't say "tissue paper pattern", they assume it is an expensive machine tool or mask, and someone has to go ransom the thing and get hassled. We can and do take a lot of email orders internationally. The use of credit card numbers or other methods makes this easy, rather than clearing a money order or bank draft, and worrying about exchange rates. Although security of the number is a worry, we have never had a problme with it. Hope this helps. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 22:23:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Elizabeth Fox Subject: Dickens Fair Here are some costume specifics: 1. Pagoda sleeves are very appropriate for this period. I made my costume this way, and for the undersleeves, took the sleeves off of a silk blouse and put elastic casings at the top. this way I could make the bodice very fitted and not have extra bulk. 2. For a hat, you can often make a modern hat into a Victorian bonnet. Get one of those wide brimmed, shallow crowned felt hats. Imagine it with the crown against the back of your head instead of the top. Cut off the part of the back that's going down your neck. You can now sew ribbon onto that edge, which will make the whole thing curve around your face like a proper bonnet. Decorate the rest of it with lace and other stuff - - more is more. 3. For shoes, there are all kinds of little boots available now that are perfect for Victorian stuff. They shouldn't be as mannish looking as Doc Martens but you want something that's kind of sturdy looking. There are plenty out there, black white and brown. I suppose you could dye white ones but I don't think you have to go that far. 4. Paisley shawls would be very period, but any kind of solid wool would be okay too. This is the era of aniline dye, so bright is okay as long as it "reads" old fashioned. Scarlet, bright blue. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:10:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine Kehl Subject: Re: BTW On 6 Oct 1995, Mrs C S Yeldham wrote: > The only example I've seen was in an exhibition of Russian clothes, mainly > 19th century, I saw a few years ago. It was either on a middle class > 'peasant' outfit, or a genuine 'peasant' outfit. The strangest examples > were the court wear, both the clothes and illustrations, where traditional > Russian clothes were worn with Victorian crinolines! Reminds me of some lovely Japanese woodcuts I saw with ladies wearing kimonoes (well, as far as the cut of the upper portion of the garment) bell-shaped skirts.... Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:29:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimberly Smay Subject: Re: Corset boning Regarding info on Richard the Thread. My address and phone number are old, try calling information. the company in New York whose name I couldn't remember is Greenburg and Hammer. K.S. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:49:17 -0700 From: erin1@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erin Harvey Moody) Subject: Re: grommets >It's been mentioned here that when using grommets, avoid >cheap [Dritz] grommets. > >I hate Dritz grommets, and they also don't come in small sizes... > >but I don't know where to get any others... >I've looked in plenty of catalogs and specialty stores, >but I haven't a clue. >Where do you find them? Mail order is fine, though >I love hearing about new sources in the Bay Area... > >-Heather Heather, Lacis in Berkeley. 2982 Adeline. That close enough for you? Hearing from our collegues in Autralia, I feel very lucky to be in the Bay Area and have so much at my fingertips. Lacis carries everything you can possibly need for corsetry (laces, stays, busks, grommetts, coutil). Lacis also mail orders and has a good catalog. If you are that local and need help with corseting, contact me off the list. Although I sell ready made and custom corsets, I am always willing to help for free. Erin Moody University of California, Berkeley erin1@uclink4.berkeley.edu 510-843-3019 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:23:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Rhodry Subject: Re: grommets > but I don't know where to get any others... > I've looked in plenty of catalogs and specialty stores, > but I haven't a clue. > Where do you find them? Mail order is fine, though > I love hearing about new sources in the Bay Area... Try a Truevalue (or similar) hardware store. I found 1" grommets at one here in Reno. They had a variety of other sizes and quanities. - Rhodry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 17:20:16 -0500 From: bpnoble@mailbag.com (Bronwyn Noble) Subject: RE: Coloured Leather >Leather can be dyed with substances which do not hold well on >fabric, and I believe some are poisonous when worn against the >skin (due to the use of peat, lampblack, and lead). Lampblack and peat are not particularly poisonous: lampblack, unless made from a petroleum-based source, is almost entirely carbon. It doesn't taste very good, but remember that activated charcoal (which is essentially the same thing as lampblack) is used in poisons. Peat is also not particularly poisonous. The big problem is that most period dyes also have nasty things like urine and tanic acid used as mordants: these are not very nice when taken internally. Also, arsenic was used quite often; although while artists knew about the poisonous effects of arsenic, many others didn't or didn't pay much attention to the dangers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 17:20:13 -0500 From: bpnoble@mailbag.com (Bronwyn Noble) Subject: Re: Corset boning >If my memory isn't playing me false, Janet Arnold said that reeds were >used for boning in corsets. I have the lecture on tape; with enough >prodding I can replay it and check it out. She did, Jaelle. Photographs #329 through 331 in Patterns of Fashion: The cut and construction of clothes for men and women c1560-1620 show the details and the "bodies" are discussed at page 113. She also says that there was additional reinforcement provided by some whalebone. Bronwyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:25:59 -0700 From: erin1@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erin Harvey Moody) Subject: Re: grommets >Try a Truevalue (or similar) hardware store. I found 1" grommets at one >here in Reno. They had a variety of other sizes and quanities. - Rhodry In grommeting, it isn't the size as much as the quality. The Dritz variety and some (not all) that are in hardware stores are made of aluminium or something flimsy. The grommets you can get at Raiments, Lacis, and G&H (those are the only ones I have bought and can attest to anyway) are of stronger materials: pewter, brass, etc., and LOOK nicer and more period. Another problem in grommeting is the tendancy to smash them to death with a hammer. You will get better results using a rubber mallet. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 09:33:16 +1000 (EST) From: Fiona Thorne Subject: 1866/7 Dress I am making the 1866/7 dress in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 1860-1940. I am making it with the skirt and bodice separate because I am making it incrementally (time restrictions) and I need flexibility in my clothes. So far I have made the skirt part, but the back is not as long as it is in the book, because it is not very practical and anyway, I stuff up the other gores and made them too short.... I am using deep blue homespun. I use my costumes while camping, so they can't be made of precious material, which I can't afford anyway. (You should have seen the hem after walking about in wet grass for 14 hours - originally I was holding the skirt up by hand, but during the evening, I was looking after a sick 9 year old and it was her first big camp, and looking after the skirt became the least of my worries.) I now have a few questions... (1) When did the method of making skirts switch from lots of pleating, to gores and a lot less pleating? Did the change in technique came about when the skirts switch from full all around to full at the back and smooth at the front? (2) Given the skirt I have just made, how do I arrange petticoats to go under it. I don't want to wear a crinoline for safety reasons (we cook on open fires). I intend to put the strings in it so that I can draw the skirt up off the ground. Currently I have a gathered petticoat that used to be a normal skirt, but I want something better. (3) I haven't put the bias tape under the hem yet, but I did notice that when the hem drags on the ground, it kicks up and the underside (hem) shows. Will putting the tape on stop this, or will everybody see the tape? (4) I believe it is about this time that women sometimes wore bodices that were different to the skirt ie they didn't look like one dress. But, books read as if the blouses we have today are more like the shirtwaists of the 1890s. So what were the unmatching bodices that women wore in the 1860s? I am interested in working to middle class women - I generally dress in a simplified fashionable style - ie general shape but no excesses, plain hardwaring fabrics. To forestall questions: the children/youth program that my church runs, Royal Rangers, has a historical group for the teenagers and adults. We are learning about life in Australia 1788-1901, focussing more on the "pioneer" style than the "townies" style. At the annual state camp, we have a small township (6 tents so far) in which some of the historical people live and try to demonstrate something about our history to the other campers. I usually work in this township part time, as I am also responsible for my own group of 9-11 year old girls. I am the women's costume co-ordinator, and I don't know that much, so I am trying to get up to speed as quickly as possible (as well as do a Masters in Computing). Fiona Fiona Thorne Masters Student, University of Technology, Sydney (Australia) fthorne@socs.uts.edu.au or Fiona_E._Thorne@aapda.com.au http://linus.socs.uts.edu.au/~fthorne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 10:22:01 TZ From: Edward Wright Subject: RE: grommets | I hate Dritz grommets, and they also don't come in small sizes... They do, but you have to know what to look for. The small ones are called "eyelets" rather than "grommets." Don't ask me why. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 23:07:33 -0400 From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) Subject: sources for books This was posted on the SCA-Middle Kingdom mailing list, so I asked for permission to post it here. Kathleen (Catriona) >To: sca-middle@dnaco.net >From: bpnoble@mailbag.com (Bronwyn Noble) >Subject: Re: [Middlebridge] Re: A & S >Sender: owner-sca-middle@dnaco.net >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: sca-middle@dnaco.net > >> >>>Falconwood Press has reprinted Digby. This little SCA-oriented press has >>>done wonderful things for costumers and cooks by providing relatively >>>inexpensive versions of a whole lot of great books. You can get a current >>>list by sending an SASE to: >>> >>>Susan J. Evans >>>Falconwood Press >>>193 Colonie St >>>Albany NY 12210-2501 >>> >>>Bronwyn ferch Gwyn ap Rhys >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 23:07:31 -0400 From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) Subject: Re: Corsets International Gary from Raiments, Please give us your email and snail mail addresses and telephone numbers. I, personally, would love a catalog. Thank you. Kathleen (Catriona) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 03:12:18 -0400 From: GiulianaLG@aol.com Subject: Yet Another Corset Query I've learned quite a bit this week about corset boning and support, Thank You All. The timing is _excellent_ as I intend to attempt a Victorian gown for my next project. I've noticed a recurring theme: the better the corset pattern, the better the corset. I think that for my first corset, I'll forgo rigid (ahem) authenticity. That is, I'm not opposed to the use of steel boning. My dilemma is this: what and where is the best pattern I can use? I can work from an illustration, but a pattern would be a bonus. If it matters, my natural waist = 31 in. / bust = 39 in. Thanks (in advance), Juliana Quartaroli sca: Giuliana La Gazza e-mail: GiulianaLG@aol.com ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #214 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!