From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #222 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, October 12 1995 Volume 3, Number 222 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: re: Historic Smoking RE: 1800s baskets Re: historic smoking Re: Dyeing silk :( RE: corsets in pregnancy Re: Historic Smoking RE: 1800s baskets Re: career questions:#2 Smocking (Germ. Ren) Pipe and Pipe smoking Re: Immortal Beloved review RE:Thoughts on Knitting RE: 14th century: cloaks vs mantles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 10:39:34 -0500 (CDT) From: BPH3213@ACS.TAMU.EDU Subject: re: Historic Smoking As an archaeologist, here's one I can field :-) Tobacco pipes of the late 16th century were generally quite small, white clay pipes. I have never seen one with decoration of any kind other than rouletting (a line around the bowl) until the 17th century, and generally not until the 18th century does significant decoration show up. The earliest (European) pipes I can direct you to date 1580-1620. I know of no earlier European pipes, although perhaps someone from the other side of the Atlantic can help with that. There are depictions in __A Guide to Artifacts of Colonial America_ (Ivor Noel Hume), and a series from the UK (BAR) has several volumes devoted to pipes. An article by Adrian Oswald (1951) "English Clay Tobacco Pipes" _The Archaeological News Letter_ (London) and "The Evolution and Chronology of the English Clay Tobacco Pipe" (same journal) 1961 would also have good depictions of them. Most large libraries will contain Noel Hume. The only source I have seen to obtain reproductions of these early pipes is Dixie Gun Works, who a few years ago carried one, but didn't sell it as such. (They called it a sentry's pipe or something). I make reproductions of 17th and 18th century pipes, but I've never made one this early. (I use originals for the mold, and have never come across one to mold from this period). On a final note, not only was smoking a fashion for men and women, but children also smoked regualarly, and even were sent off to school with their pipes,. Pipes were also used to blow bubbles! Borderline to costume, but part of the personna... Bryan Howard Dept. of Anth, Texas A&M University bph3213@acs.tamu.edu p.s. While carrying a pipe at events might be good for looks, I don't recommend using them. I've tried a few of my reproductions, and frankly, it's pretty nasty. Tucking one in a visible spot to give the appearance without having to do the deed is good enough! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 11:06:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Deb Subject: RE: 1800s baskets If you can find a book of Hogarth's engravings at the library, his early 1700's engravings show lots of ordinary people, and a number of baskets and different basket-types. I know that's not the time period you wanted, but it might be a place to start. My group (Am. RevWar, circa 1770's) has raised some question about what _materials_ were available for baskets. Wicker seems to be shown in pictures we've found, but lighter grasses or reeds we're not sure about. So I try to limit my baskets to stuff I'm reasonably sure about. Also, I watch the finish: nothing obviously poly-urethaned. They probably could have colored baskets as well as we can, but I steer clear of those too, since I'm not sure. Deb Baddorf baddorf@fnal.gov ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 12:22:45 -0400 (EDT) From: CLT@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: Re: historic smoking [snip of info relating to smoking from the 16th - 18th centuries] I don't know about Mary Stuart's, but there are natural black > pearls, it had to do with the type of oyster producing a black > nacre, I believe. Of course there were dipped pearls. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 22:49:21 +1000 (EST) From: Katrina Hunt Subject: RE: corsets in pregnancy There are (or were) pregnancy specific corsets in available at least until recently. Being a mother of three and a costumer I would NOT recommend any of the period corsets. Even my large Venetian 16th Century corset would not be appropriate. Unfortunately carrying a large baby is often uncomfortable (one of mine was an active 9lb 9oz I know what I'm talking about) and in different periods women stopped wearing their corsets. I would suggest, rather than corsets, some gentle excercise and lots of rest. The best thing you could do for your wife is to love her lots, massage any part of her she asks you to and try to let her do as little strenuous work as possible. Lots of luck ******************************************************************************* * * * David and Katrina Hunt | thehunts@canberra.dialix.oz.au * * Stephen Aldred & Mathilde Adycote | 24 Edwards St Higgins ACT Australia * Baron & Baroness Politarchopolis | Phone (06) 254 3059 * * * ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 10:06:40 -0700 From: erin1@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erin Harvey Moody) Subject: Re: Historic Smoking Were we talking about smoking? I thought it was smocking...... Erin > On the smoking theme...it was very fashionable for Elizabethan men >and women to smoke tobacco. It was considered good for the lungs and a cure >for just about everything, including gangrene! > > Does anyone have pictoral sources for 16th century pipes? I would >actually consider using one if it were pretty. > > Kathleen (Catriona) > -just doing my best for the fight against gangrene... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 10:22:16 PDT From: julie_adams@corp.Cubic.COM Subject: RE: 1800s baskets Just a thought: You might look into what baskets were made by the aboriginal natives in your area, and what they were made of. I have seen many other types of goods produced for Europeans in Indian Museums. Here in California, the Native Americans are considered the best basket weavers of the world, and I believe would have been able to produce baskets to any European taste and suitable shape. Now I have no idea that they did that in your particular time and location, but trade being what it is....Anyway, its another place to look for info.--julie adams ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 10:52:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Gwen Carnegi Subject: Re: career questions:#2 On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, Kerri Potratz wrote: > I am a senior at USD and I am looking for good programs in costume > constuction. I have no preference as to where I go, but I am > _definitely_ more fabric inclined than watercolor inclined. (IOW I like > to sew, not draw) > > Does anyone have any suggestions for schools? > What your BA is in will affect your choice of schools. I'm very fond of CalArts in So Cal for costume. The PADT program is great but very expensive. If technical construction is what you feel you lack, FIT in NY is IMHO the best but they are a fashion industry school and not a theatre school. Also, are you prepared to move for grad school? Most of the better schools are on the coasts. Toodles, Gwyn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 10:33:32 PDT From: julie_adams@corp.Cubic.COM Subject: Smocking (Germ. Ren) Very few people have the depth of primary sources I have on German Ren. I have been collecting German sources for over 10 years and many are either out of print, zeroxes of rare books, personal photos from German museums, or books from Germany. There are a number of what I believe are examples of smocking in "Lucas Cranach" and "The German Renaissance Woodcut" (which normally can only be found at a University, there is only one complete set publicly available in California that I know of). I tried to present here some examples from sources that most people can access. For the purpose of this discussion, I am defining the term smocking to refer to pleating fabric into even pleats by gathering and then embroidering over the top. This embroidery can be flexible and have elasticity, but can also be a decorative way to hold pleats in place. For those of you who have not smocked, the stitch chosen, how it is placed, and the tension used, controls the elasticity. I believe Durer shows some smocked shirts in other works. I don't generally consider the gathered shirt in his "self-portrait" as true smocking, though it might loosely fit into the definition above. The following are some of the examples that I base my opinion on (but not all, many of these paintings need to be seen in person): "Lucas Cranach" by Friedlander and Rosenberg, The Wellfleet Press, New Jersey, 1978 ISBN:1-55521-475-4 Possible smocked items: #13-St Dorothy, St. Agnes, St Cunegunde - chemise #80-Virgin and Child, the Child holding and Apple - chemise #81-Virgin giving suck - chemise #152-Von Brandenburg, Duke of Prussia-Shirt (maybe smocked) #155-The ill-match lovers - chemise #220-The Feast of Herod- chemise or placket #323-Portrait of Margrave-shirt (maybe smocked) #Sup15-Sup 18 Men's portraits - shirts (maybe smocked) "The complete woodcuts of Albrecht Durer" Dover Press Pg. 100-The knight and the landsknecht, 1497 "The Complete Etchings and Engravings of Albrecht Durer" Dover Press pg 166 - Melancolia I - smocked apron pg 159 - Peasant couple dancing - (not smocked, but a clear picture of a type apron which I have seen smocked at the top) Loose Woodcut Zeroxs (from The German woodcut series) Lucas von leydon - The dentist - chemise Edward Schoen- Distribution of foolscaps -1538 - chemise And the following two I consider the Most Clear representations by the way they are drawn and hang: Edward Schoen- Tailor as Lansquenet and Seamstress-1535- - -sleeves Lucas Cranach the Elder-Beheading of John the babtist- 1505-sleeves Holbein - Portrait of Jacob Meyer - shirt Textiler Hausrat, Keidung und Haustextilien in Nurnberg von 1500-1600-by Jutta Zander-Seidel, Deutscher Kunstverlag 1990 ISBN:3-422-06067-7 (has duplicates of some previously mentioned, can be purchased at the Germanisches National Museum in Munchen, or the Bayerisches Museum in Nurnberg-this book is sort of the "janet arnold for german 16th cent. costuming and a bit more) There are some examples which look to be smocked with white thread on white fabric. I am not as sure about some of my men's shirt examples. I also have a theory that some of the pleated high-necked chemises are smocked on the back in white to hold the pleat, but just a theory, but that is how I add tension to cuffs. In Cranach, they show some smocking that is like Durer's, but some is not. The smocking is usually either in simple lines straight across, or in diamond patterns. I have never found picture smocking. What convinced me in the end was seeing some of these pictures in person. Many of the Cranach's are extremely large and a lot of detail is lost looking at a book. Of the two shirts with smocked bands around the sleeves, one is on a noblewoman and one of a seamstress campfollower in grubby clothing. I made one of these shirts using smocking and it looks pretty much like the woodcuts. There are several women with aprons that have smocked waistbands. (see Durer's Melancholia I). This type of apron is like a shorter skirt, with no banding trim (and is not, like many people think, a short overskirt). There are some "jumpsuit"-like aprons, built almost like a viking apron with a narrow top. The top is either smooth, a fabric yoke, or the fabric is smocked into a narrow band, shown in Durer's "peasant couple dancing". Certainly my opinion on this is based on interpretations of visual examples only and then "testing" those theories by creating the garments and then comparing the look and drape to the woodcuts/paintings. I would love to know if anyone has seen any written info on smocking in the 16th cent. or seen any existing examples. My German is poor at best, and my 16th cent. German even worse.... Julie Adams julie_adams@corp.cubic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 13:34:17 -0600 (CST) From: BJHILL@STTHOMAS.EDU Subject: Pipe and Pipe smoking A quick tour of whats available through the library here at work revealed several books that might also be available in your area. Look under Tobacco, Pipe. The Pipe, by George Herment New York, Simon & Schuster, 1955 Introduction of tobacco into Europe by Berthold Lanfer Chicago; Field Museum of Natural History, 1924 The Fanastic Book of Canes, Pipes & Walking sticks by Harry Amerendes Lancaster PA, Fox Chapel Publ. 1994 ISBN 1565230485 The European picture book of clay pipes/ Le Livre europeen des pipes enterre by Niels Augustin Willemstad N. Br. Netherlands. Raadhuis 1980 ISBN 9070358018 The Book of Pipes & Tobacco. Picture research by Marion Geisinger, by Carl Ehwa. New York, Random House 1974 The Pipe Book in history & how to by William Goldring New York, Drake Pub. 1973 ISBN 0877494266 Smokiana, historical & Ethnographical by Robert Taylor Pritchett London, B Quaritch, 1890 Complete guide to collecting Antique Pipes by Benjamin Rapaport Schiffer Pub. 1979 isbn 0916838226 IMO it would be acceptable to smoke for either gender or any age - historically, for your time period and place. Jas Townsend & Son may sell the type of clay pipe you desire. I have no connection, financial or otherwise, but I do find their staff to be above par and their catalog one of the most enjoyable. You can reach them at 1-800-338-1665. Regarding smoking from a clay pipe: Go to a reputable tobacco dealer with your new (old) pipe and ask to sample their wares. You will not believe the difference in fresh as opposed to packaged for the convience store trade. It is my experience that this is the only way to truly enjoy a pipe. I was asked once how to smoke a pipe, my reply was to have many (match) sticks. Share & enjoy brian hill bjhill@stthomas.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 10:21:11 -0700 From: erin1@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erin Harvey Moody) Subject: Re: Immortal Beloved review > What was wrong with the underpinnings? I understand that during the >Romantic period women didn't wear corsets...at least I have read of >Napoleon's Josephine wearing a gown that was actually dampened to cling >transparently to her bosom. > > Kathleen (Catriona) Yes and no. It is a popular belief that women did not wear corsets, and paintings of the period certainly indicate transparent gowns with no visibile underpinnings. I have not read a primary source (though have read many secondary sources ) referencing the cloth wetting theory. This is not to say they did not do it, I just have not read what I consider good documentation on it. However, I have seen many corsets from the romantic/Napoleonic period. So which is it? In my opinion, both. From what I have examined, it seems to be more European that American/English to be corsetless or wto wear those styles. Also there is a strong consideration for class/economic culture (diaphanous gowns were worn by the upper classes), simple modest gowns worn by the middle). Also, no underpinnings is not the same as no corset. The "corsetless" still did wear chemises that were reinforced at the bust (however sheer), and there was still an interest of protecting clothes from the bare skin, a layer of something would have been worn in between the gown and the skin. Back to the movie..... I noticed in one scene the lady took her dress off (or rather her maids helped her take it off) and there was nothing between the gown and her skin, then in the next scene we see her bathing in her chemise. Although bathing in something was very period, the continuity bothered me, as well as the gown to skin. Very nit-picky on my part. Otherwise a very lovely film and worth owning. Erin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 11:29:56 PDT From: julie_adams@corp.Cubic.COM Subject: RE:Thoughts on Knitting After all this discussion pointing to Spain for knit stockings, I thought: Gee, why don't I see if my "Hispanic Costume" book has anything about knitting in it? --Yikes! There was lots! Discussions of knitted gloves, hose, bonnets, sleeves, turban cloth which doubles as a neckscarf, etc. Actually talks about separate guilds: hose-makers which had to do both sewn and knitted hose, and bonnet-makers which had to do felted, sewn, and knit bonnets, hat-makers (which may or may not make bonnets!). So not a "knitting guild" secret in Spain. Even discusses exporting silk stockings. Discusses a statement that "from the 15th cent., most long hose (clear to the waist) were knitted", but caviats this discussion that both are seen in evidence. Many of the hose described are of shiny material (silk or satin), and I don't think you could get that effect in a knit. Stripes are described as colored "bands", but I was still not clear as to how they did it. Unfortunately, there is no discription of origins or of knitting pre-1480. "Hispanic Costume, 1580-1530" by Ruth Matilda Anderson, The Hispanic Society, 1979 (but recently available through Hedgehog Handworks) (and is an awesome book if you have any interest in this period or those nearby! Very scholarly and full of translated primary sources). julie adams ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 11:55:32 PDT From: julie_adams@corp.Cubic.COM Subject: RE: 14th century: cloaks vs mantles Oops, misspoke myself again. The barret with sides is a "strickbarret", if dog-ears are added to that or a plain barret, it becomes a "schlappe". I was looking for early period german women outdoors in mantles and saw a number of "poncho" like garments, also cloaks and robes with large holes in them for the arms to go through, and one lady in a coat with a collar as well. I didn't notice them wearing mantles with the same garments(as a coat or cloak) or even always wearing mantles at all. The coat looked like a loose T-tunic split up the front. The poncho looked like a long rectangle with a hole cut for the head, and the cloaks and robes looked like they had a circular cut (fell in full loose drapes at the bottom, not much pleating at the top.) None of the pictures were showing heavy weather conditions however. julie adams ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #222 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!