From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #226 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Saturday, October 14 1995 Volume 3, Number 226 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: Historic Smoking Book prices Re: Dyeing silk :( Re: Costuming/Supply Store in LA area Re: male fashion in late middle ages Re: Cavalier Gowns Re: Spinning What is the traditional "witches' hat" called? Academic gear, Medieval witch's hat... norse/viking armband shoelaces Elizabeth's "Machine-made" Stockings 12th C. Spinning Knitting in the Middle Ages Re: Corset boning ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 00:41:44 -0400 From: kl94ag@badger.ac.BrockU.CA (Kathleen Leggat) Subject: Re: Historic Smoking >Were we talking about smoking? I thought it was smocking...... > >Erin > The smoking theme came from the discussions of the Bucaneers. Although I do have a smocking and smoking story... My first and only attempt at smocking was a partlet. I worked very hard, then wore it for the first time at a camping event. I was (cringes in embarrassment) showing a friend how I had been, the night before, playing with my cloak as if I was signalling planes (yes, I had been a little tipsy) when my arm movement knocked the heater from my cigarette right onto the sleeve of my new hand-smocked blouse. It ate a couple of holes through. Boy, did I cry! I was able to sew the holes together and have a hard time finding the repair amidst the full yard sleeves...but still... Kathleen (Catriona) ------------------------------ Date: 14 Oct 95 02:52:49 EDT From: Gary Anderson <72437.674@compuserve.com> Subject: Book prices On Fri, 13 Oct Mazelle wrote re: Raiments catalog >While Raiment's patterns are cheaper, their books are not. Be careful! In >Amazon's "Queen's Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked" is $130.00. In Raiments, it >sells for $175.00. Hi, Gary from Raiments here... You are correct on QEWU, because we have had to go to the second printing. We burned through the first very quickly, when we sold it for about $125 or so, but that was the first printing. The price increase was astronomical for the second. This price difference is not generally true of books, especially costume books. In general, we meet or beat Amazon, but we both have the same problem - the price on books is going up really rapidly. We are seeing price increases on the order of 50% or more for some books. The cause is primarily paper and dyes, but it also seems that that served as a good chance to have a general price increase. This trend is not abating, BTW, so if you want books, get'em now. The popular books are the first to feel the pinch, since they sell out and have to be restocked from more expensive printings. Errr... our books are more oriented to costuming, so we also do not carry the interior decorating and other noncostuming titles that Amazon does. We are up to about 900+ costuming titles now, though. But we are having to watch the stocking closely, because the price increases mean both distributors and retailers are caught in the inventory carrying cost squeeze. I fear that there may be a long term bad effect here, because if the price for printing books rises much more, not even libraries can afford them, and at some point, the publishers will stop printing them because of poor sales, and even if they print them, the small unit volumes will raise the price that much more per book and make them that much more unattractive to distributors. It is a disturbing thought that a lot of the books now available will once again fall back into the category of being available via copying from a friend. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 21:21:10 PDT From: ke6isf@outlander (Dennis Allen Carr) Subject: Re: Dyeing silk :( deirdre@deeny.MV.COM (Deirdre) writes: > OK, so if worm spit (love it) dissolves in hot water, and most dyes are set > in hot solution, how does one dye silk? > > Not academic: I'm planning on dyeing some later this year. > > _Deirdre > > Worm spit. Hmm. Interesting term! =) This dissolving in hot water - this is news to me. (Maybe this is why the instructions on that shirt I have say wash in cold water.) I'm looking at these shirts I have, which are made of a washable silk (really! They're about $15 over at Mervyn's.) I've hand washed them - and seen some of the dye remaining in the water. My guess is that Rit dyes can be used for coldwater dying. Try this and let me know how it works out! =) KE6ISF uublip!outlander!ke6isf@ccss.com v3.1 GCC d-(-) s: a-- c++ U?>$ P L>+++ E? !W-- N+(+) o K- !w O? M- V? PS-- PE(+)@ Y PGP? t+ 5 X(+) R tv b+ DI+ D? G e h-- r !y- I'M NOT REALLY SANE!!!! am i? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 21:34:31 PDT From: ke6isf@outlander (Dennis Allen Carr) Subject: Re: Costuming/Supply Store in LA area Heather Meadows writes: > > I'm planning on being in the LA area this weekend... > > I know Raiments is in pasadena .. > are there any other amazing & wonderful stores I should > check out while I am down in the area? :) > > > -Heather > > I can safely recommend one particular costume shop in Buena Park called Astrid's costume Attic. One man who works there named Michael Kane (Not related to that one!) seems to know his stuff pretty well. (Then again, with my lack of expertise in this field, everyone seems to know their stuff pretty well! =) ) Have fun out here in CA, and make sure if you're out at night, that it's in Orange County. Oh, yeah - don't breathe the air. =) KE6ISF uublip!outlander!ke6isf@ccss.com v3.1 GCC d-(-) s: a-- c++ U?>$ P L>+++ E? !W-- N+(+) o K- !w O? M- V? PS-- PE(+)@ Y PGP? t+ 5 X(+) R tv b+ DI+ D? G e h-- r !y- I'M NOT REALLY SANE!!!! am i? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 20:33:49 PDT From: ke6isf@outlander (Dennis Allen Carr) Subject: Re: male fashion in late middle ages > For example I am interested in the following: > - On numerous paintings, men seem to be wearing completely tight > pants/hosen. Moreover if there is a sign of seems, there appears to > be but one on the back of the leg. I very much wonder how this can be > achieved without use of modern elastic fibres or knitted fabric. > - The hosen are supposed to be really separate for the two legs, only > when the tunic becomes short enough, the front is covered with a > triangular cod piece. I have seen pictures where that is attached to > the hosen with bow-knots at the top two angles, but how is the bottom > angle attached? And how is the rear part of the hosen arranged? Yep, we went through this discussion about 1 or 2 months ago - in fact, I had asked a similar question. What I ascertained (and for that matter, what I remember) is that they were separate, however later on they became joined at the waist, similar to the tights, leggings, etc. that you find nowadays. My understanding is that a similar elasticity can be achieved with a bias-weave wool. (I've seen unitards over at a nearby dance shop that look like they're made like this.) HTH! =) KE6ISF uublip!outlander!ke6isf@ccss.com v3.1 GCC d-(-) s: a-- c++ U?>$ P L>+++ E? !W-- N+(+) o K- !w O? M- V? PS-- PE(+)@ Y PGP? t+ 5 X(+) R tv b+ DI+ D? G e h-- r !y- I'M NOT REALLY SANE!!!! am i? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 19:31:20 +0800 From: Writan Consulting Subject: Re: Cavalier Gowns I'm interested in anything anyone has on this period. I know there was some discussion a while back, but I foolishly left the stuff in my in-tray, and Eudora ate all 200 messages one dark dark day :-( I'm looking for - textiles, decoration style, patterns - and how *did* those things go together? (the stomacher/bodice). Thanks, /anne... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 03:47:23 PDT From: ke6isf@outlander (Dennis Allen Carr) Subject: Re: Spinning > The reason I ask is because my husband and I plan to open a medieval theme > store in the spring, and while he is making his bows in the store for people Snip. If anything, this sounds interesting. Whereabouts are you, I might take a look! =) KE6ISF uublip!outlander!ke6isf@ccss.com v3.1 GCC d-(-) s: a-- c++ U?>$ P L>+++ E? !W-- N+(+) o K- !w O? M- V? PS-- PE(+)@ Y PGP? t+ 5 X(+) R tv b+ DI+ D? G e h-- r !y- I'M NOT REALLY SANE!!!! am i? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 95 10:05:37 -0400 From: "paul winner" Subject: What is the traditional "witches' hat" called? I was wondering if anyone knew what the traditional "witches' hat" is/was called. Often shown as a black pointed hat with a brim. If the little plastic tips of shoelaces have a name surely this hat does! Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 14:00:28 -0400 From: Gerekr@aol.com Subject: Academic gear, Medieval Forwarding a question for a friend... please reply to the list. - ----------- Secondly, could whichever of you reads the "H-Costume list" please ask the good folk there for a bit of help on a project I've worked on (very low-key and -priority) for some time having to do with academic costume? I am specifically looking for what the robes, capes, hats, etc, were for the various universities in SCA period [that would be ca. 1000-1600, western Europe]. This would include cut, color, material, etc, for each university and school/college within it. For example, I know that some used civilian-type berets and others the beretta, some used pork-pie hats and others a type of skull-cap, etc. In some universities the color blue meant one faculty/college/major and at others it stood for another f/c/m. The same with white, green, yellow, etc. At some schools a ring was given upon completion of studies, while at others it was a glove or pair of gloves, or a medallion, or a cape or collar, etc. I especially need to find books with all this spelled out -and- that tells when who got what for which level of studies. So far, I have only managed to find -ONE- book at the UW library that gave - -some- of this information about the French and English universities, with a minimal mention of those in Northern Italy, Holland, Germany, Poland, etc, and did not even make token mention of Southern Italy, Sicily, Spain (Moorish - -or- Christian), Greece or Islamic lands. Do you think these folks could help? [Of course!] Find books for me to borrow, either from them personally or through interlibrary loan? (Or buy, of course, if the book was exactly what I was looking for.) - ------------- Thanks, Patsy/Chimene chimenedes@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 12:28:11 -0500 (CDT) From: c578168@showme.missouri.edu Subject: witch's hat... Witch's hats are more appropriately called Quaker's hats, at least in the 18th c. You can see one illustrated in Hogarth's Harlot's Progress (pl.3, on the wall). Hope this helps. Michelle Powell-Smith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:17:32 -0400 From: LULUBOB899@aol.com Subject: norse/viking armband Greetings All!! I have been asked by a friend to reseach and make an armband worn by the Vikings. He told me it was worn on the upper arm and had a animal motif of some sort. I have not had any luck. Does anyone have any ideas? Viking costuming is not my forte. Thanks, Lucretia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 16:09:42 -0500 (CDT) From: FRIENDC@carleton.edu Subject: shoelaces What _are_ those plastic thingys called? You've piqued my interest. Chandra/Selena ------------------------------ Date: 14 Oct 95 17:28:02 EDT From: "Dawn T. Jacobson" <74647.1271@compuserve.com> Subject: Elizabeth's "Machine-made" Stockings Norma (gjuka@cnw.com) wrote: >>I kept waiting for someone else to bring it up, but I haven't seen this posted. It wasn't that the stockings were knit, or silk, or Spanish. They were among the first of the machine knitted stockings. My source is Accessories of Dress which I have seen cited here before, although I am fairly certain I have seen this in other references. A of D gives 1589 as the date of the first knitting machine.<< Yes and no. The "knitting machines" A of D refers to are actually knitting frames. Also called "stocking frames," "knitting reels," or "knitting nancies," these were rounds with lots of little pegs. The yarn was wound around the pegs and lifted off with a needle or small hook. If this sounds like the "spool" knitting that alot of people learned as children, it is. Knitting frames were well-known in Germany and Austria by the beginning of the 17th Century; the textile guilds passed regulations on the number of knitting frames to be allowed in a master knitter's shop. According to Nancy Bush, in her book _Folk Socks_, William Lee invented the stocking frame in 1589, and presented ERI with a pair of wool stockings; she was not impressed, as she had developed a taste for silk stockings. Lee perfected his frame for knitting silk stockings by 1599, but Elizabeth refused to grant him a patent on the device. He then went off to France, in hopes of securing royal patronage, but assassination of the king ended that plan. He died in France, after teaching a number of workers to use stocking frames. I think this is a nice story, but going from initial invention to something being so common that textile guilds on the other side of Europe are regulating it in less than 30 years is pushing it just a tad, IMHO. It does, however, represent the first step down the road to the Industrial Revolution. Dawn T. Jacobson 74647.1271@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: 14 Oct 95 17:27:55 EDT From: "Dawn T. Jacobson" <74647.1271@compuserve.com> Subject: 12th C. Spinning Krista Fraser wrote: >>Was spinning common, or even around in the 12th century? If so, were their wheels similar to the colonial type or were they totally different?<< Women (and men) has spun since the Egyptians, but they didn't use a spinning wheel until fairly late. The spinning wheel is based on a very simple wheel/driving band/spindle tool invented in India and called a "charka." The principle was was imported to Europe around 1500, and the wool wheel (aka "great wheel" "walking wheel") was invented soon thereafter. About the same time, Johann Jurgen invented the flyer that allows the thread to be spun and wound onto the bobbin at the same time. These small, low wheels were used primarily for spinning flax into linen thread, hence the names "Flax Wheel" "Low Wheel" etc. The modern-day wheels made by Ashford, LeClerc, Schacht, etc., are direct descendents of Jurgen's original design, right down to the little hooks on the flyer. Before the invention of the spinning wheel, people spun with a drop spindle. Drop spindles, and pictures of people spinning with them, have been found in the Pyramids; whorls (the weight on the spindle that allows it to revolve) have been found in the remains of Viking settlements in Nova Scotia; and Navajo spinners and weavers still use the long Navajo spindle to spin fibers for their rugs. The Spring, 1995 issue of _Spin-Off_ focused on spinning with a drop spindle, and has a number of articles, instructions, and illustrations on exactly how to spin with a drop spindle, a high-whorl spindle, a supported spindle, and so on. Dawn T. Jacobson 74647.1271@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: 14 Oct 95 17:28:18 EDT From: "Dawn T. Jacobson" <74647.1271@compuserve.com> Subject: Knitting in the Middle Ages In response to comments/questions by Christina Cary, June Rusell, Teresa Shannon, Gillian Richards, and Judy Gerjuoy: I've recently been able to borrow a copy of Richard Rutt's _A History of Hand Knitting_ (Interweave Press, ISBN 0-934026-35-1). Gillian Richards wrote: >> I was watching THAT movie again last night, and Christan Slater pulls a thread from his thick winter wooly undergarment to provide a trail in the labrynth (sp?). THe garment looks like knitting, unravels like knitting, yet surely not?<< I'm not sure what movie she is referring to, but no, Christian Slater probably should not have had knitted undergarments on, particularly if it is from the 13th Century. There is no evidence that anyone had knitted "garments", other than socks, caps, and other small items, before the mid-17th Century. Christina Cary wrote: >>Hmmm, I need to go home and look at my knitting history books (if anyone is interested), but I believe this is not the case. In England, at least, there used to be "Knitting Guilds," and members (all men, I think) were extremely accomplished and had to knit many astonishing pieces in order to qualify for membership.<< According to Rutt, caps were among the first things to have been knitted in England, and professional cap knitters ("cappers") were established by 1424. Marjorie Claton of Ripon was a licensed cap knitter in 1465, and Joan and Isabella Capper sought licenses as cap-knitters in Nottingham in 1488. Although there is little extant documentation for cap guilds, there is evidence for guilds established in Paris in 1268, in Tournai in 1429, in Barcelona in 1496, and in France, Alcase, and Germany at the beginning of the 16th Century. The Knitting Madonnas Although the "Knitting Madonnas" published in Rutt are excellent examples of _how_ knitting probably was done during the period of the paintings (14th Century), they should not be used as documentation sources for _what_ was being knitted. In three of the paintings, the piece being knitted is too small to be definitely identified--we merely are able to extract the information that women probably knitted, they knitted in the round (on four double-pointed needles), and that the yarn was probably kept tidy on a "spool rack." The fourth painting, the well-known _Buxtehude Madonna_ by Master Bertram is a "Passion Picture." Rutt notes (and, having studied this aspect of medieval art for a class, I'm inclined to agree) that the items represented in the painting are icons connected with Christ's Passion. The crimson shirt the Madonna is portrayed "knitting" represents the "...coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout." (John 19:23). This garment was probably similar to a Greek chiton, which is made from a single piece of woven cloth, and is fastened at the shoulders and usually belted to keep it closed. The garment worn by the Greek Archaic sculpture "The Charioteer." is an excellent example. It was common for 14th Century artist to include a red coat among the items of the Passion; Master Bertram took the idea one step further, and assumed that the garment must have been knitted to make it seamless. Stockings Although it appears that knitted caps were becoming more commonplace by the late 16th Century, it appears that knitted hose did not catch on until well into ERI's reign (the 1570s). Stockings had to be imported from Italy or Spain, and were _very_ expensive. In 1566, the first mechanized wireworks was built in England, supplying a source of good steel knitting needles in small enough sizes to allow the knitting of hose. An example of the fineness of the work are the silk stockings found in the grave of Johan III, buried in Uppsala in 1592. The stockings, made much as stockings are made today, knitted in stockinette stitch with a single purl down the back to serve as a seam, started with 254 stitches cast on. By comparison, a stocking I'm presently knitting on #1 pins started with only 1/2 that many stitches cast on. By my estimate (Rutt did not provide a gauge for Johan III's stockings), they are 18-20 stitches to the inch. The Shirt of Charles I The earliest "garment" (item that covers a portion of the torso, with sleeves) is is a very beautiful waistcoat, supposedly worn by Charles I at his execution in 1649. Done in "damask" knitting, where a pattern is created by purling in specific areas to create a design, it is a beautiful shirt, worked at 8 1/2 stitches to the centimeter, with long, narrow sleeves, a very tiny band that appears to be just several rows of plain stockinette stitch. It's closed by 12 worked buttons (there are 13 buttonholes), in a manner similar to the modern-day "Henley" shirt. This shirt is currently in the collection of the Museum of London. Knitting v Weaving The question has been asked, "If people were knitting, why aren't there more knitted garments?" The answer is simple--time. Garments like Charles I shirt take an inordinate amount of time to create. I both knit and weave. In the time it takes me to knit an inch of a stocking, I can weave a foot of fabric. There is no wastage in my stocking's material, but in the time it would take me to knit a single waistcoat, I could weave enough fabric to clothe my entire family, and probably several of the neighbors, at a profit to myself. Dawn T. Jacobson 74647.1271@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:26:22 -0400 From: BBrisbane@aol.com Subject: Re: Corset boning I was given a rare opportunity (by visiting Colonial Williamsburg in the off season - no crowds in November) to 'play' with a piece of real whale bone at the Miliners shop, while the guide stitched at her daughter's gown told me about it. Whale bone is fiberous and remarkably flexible, only slightly less than plastic boning, but the guide tells me it does _not_ deform with with body heat. They get their whale bone from native whale hunters, by the way (and probably need a special license at both ends og the deal). She reccomended oak half-rounds for weaving for boning. The 'grass' also used for stiffening was a type of reed that grows along the sea shore, with a round cross section, like sweetgrass, only larger. Ciao! Brenda ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #226 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!