From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #233 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Friday, October 20 1995 Volume 3, Number 233 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: Patterns H-Costume Digest V3 #232 Silk Greaves Re: Greaves Sewn Eyelets Re: Sewn Eyelets Costume Closet Cleaning Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #231 Re: Sewn Eyelets Web Site for H-Costume ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 23:42:14 -0400 From: margritt@mindspring.com (Margritte) Subject: Re: Patterns At 12:36 AM 10/17/95, Samantha S. Bruhn wrote: >I teach hearing impaired at the elementary level. Since they are very >visual I am interested in medieval costume patterns to help get this subject >matter across. I would appreciate any pattern catalogs or information on >how to obtain medieval patterns you can send. I would gladly pay for the >catalog. >Please send to :Samantha S. Bruhn > 10501 W. University Ct. > Wichita, KS. 67209 As the (ex-) demo officer for a group that studies the Middle Ages, I've tried over the years to keep my eyes out for anything that might be useful in the way of costuming hints. Hope this helps. - -for the boys, a bare-bones minimum could be a "surcoat" made of 2 rectangles pinned together at the shoulders and belted at the waist. I've even seen this made from two towels. - -for something that takes some sewing, try making a "T-tunic". Fold a length of cloth in half so that the distance from the fold to the bottom of the fabric is the length you want the garment to be (hip length for boys, floor length for girls). Cut a "T" out of the fabric (the stem of the T is their body; the arms of the T are the arms of the garment. For the girls, flare out from the waist to make the skirt. Cut a neck hole, hem it, and stitch up the sides. Fairly simple if you've done any sewing before. I strongly suggest asking for help from parents, other teacher, even the students themselves, if you plan to get lots of costumes done. Don't burn yourself out on the sewing! - -although they are stretch knit, sweat pants worn under T-tunics are generally not noticable. - -for any of your costumes, avoid obviously modern fabrics -anything that stretches, has neon colors, etc. Solid colors are usually the best. - -be sure when you are cutting the garments that you allow room for getting in and out of them without stretch and/or zippers. Make them big and belt them in. They'll fit more students that way. - -a simple cloak can be made from a half-circle of fabric (radius=length of cloak). Cut a half-circle neckhole in the straight egde, and hem all edges. - -let the girls wear veils of a sheer material (old curtain sheers maybe?) Cut the veils in the shape of an oval, and hold them on with a circlet of ribbon. Please don't use those awful cone-shaped monstrosities that everyone associates with the Middle Ages. Yes, they are easy to make, but they are not truly representative of the time period. - -if students are going to be making their own costumes, make sure they understand what is appropriate. It's easy to get stuck with prom dresses and cowboy boots iif you aren't careful. For anything more elaborate, you will probably need a pattern, but I hope this has given you some ideas for "quick and dirty" costuming. You might want to contact a branch of the Society for Creative Anachronism (a medieval re-enactment group) in your area. They will have members who can answer costuming questions, help you find patterns, or perhaps even loan you some clothes. They also often have members who can come to the school for a presentation. Your best bet is to look for a contact person on the newsgroup "rec.org.sca". Hope this has helped. If you have any questions, or if I can be of any further assistance, please let me know. Good luck! - -Margritte - ------------------------------------------------------------ Gryphon's Moon - Request our free catalog of Celtic jewelry. email margritt@mindspring.com or check out our web page at http://www.mindspring.com/~maclain/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 00:20:45 -0400 From: Ann Barry Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #232 Re: Seamless garment It certainly would be as technically possible to weave double cloth on a vertical loom as it is on a horizontal one. Whether it would be fun to do or anyone did it, I don't know but I will look in some of my weaving books to see. Some of the finest and most complex weaving in the world was done on very primitive looms. The pre-columbian work done in Boliva and Peru is a good example and they used double weave extensively. In addition, twills were woven in prehistoric times and if you can weave a twill, you can do double weave. Ann Barry (abarry@pipeline.com) ------------------------------ Date: 20 Oct 95 10:19:00 BST From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Silk I've made two period garments from dupion silk. A gold late 16th century 'coffee table' skirt (fully lined), which I (carefully) washed, and it has never been the same since. It lost the crispness I like so much in dupion, and is needed for that style of skirt (I don't mind this softened effect in modern clothes). The second was a bronze early 16th century Italian gown (my wedding dress), which I have also worn at parties and things. This one I have not washed, after the previous experience. I lined and interlined the bodice (lining the skirt), made sure the under-arm area was cut low (it has enormous sleeves) and always wear a smock that completely protects the gown; I've spot cleaned it and air cleaned it (after a party where people were smoking) and I think it still looks good. So, my advice is, don't wash it - use period cleaning techniques. They are surprisingly effective. Of course, this is a dark colour which doesn't show marks easily! Caroline ------------------------------ Date: 20 Oct 95 14:13:00 BST From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Greaves Bill, Thanks for your comments, and the kind reference to David - I too thought what he said made a lot of sense. So, I hope you won't mind me querying your reference to a 13th century Bible. Surely this would be an edition of the Vulgate bible, so although the illustrations would be 13th century, the text would be St Jerome's (sorry, can't remember date but its early era Christian), in Latin? So, if there were textual references to 'greaves' this would have to relate to 2nd or 3rd century AD greaves, not ones which were a new development in the 13th century. Or have I misunderstood your point? I understood you didn't get vernacular bibles until late 15th century, and there wasn't a new latin bible until after the Council of Trent (1563). Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:53:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Re: Greaves > Bill, > I understood you didn't get vernacular bibles until late 15th century, and > there wasn't a new latin bible until after the Council of Trent (1563). > Caroline You are referring then to legal bibles? John Wycliffes bible was available in the 14th century in England, even Queen Anne of Bohemia had a copy, and we know they must have done a lot of them because even though they were burned, suppressed and banned under threat of excommunication and death at least 40 have survived to this day, and this was before type, also Tyndales, and on the continent? The Sonshino [sp] bible and who knows what was happening with the hussites and Van Eyck. Of course this is irrelevant to the true question of Caroline's post, was the reference to greaves a biblical one set down in the 6 or 9th century latin vulgate? Or was this someone who wrote the bible slipping in modern (13th c.) references? Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:38:16 -500 From: "Carol Kocian" Subject: Sewn Eyelets Here is a technique for making very tiny hand-stitched eyelets. Someone mentioned earlier that eyelets are stronger if you do no or minimal cutting of the hole. Take a big tapestry needle (or a carpet needle) with a large eye. Push it through all layers where you want the eyelet to be. Stop when the widest part of the eye is in the fabric. On either side of the eye, you will see the stretched fabric edge. Start your buttonhole stitch on one of these edges. The needle with the buttonhole thread will need to be slightly bent or flexible to get past the tapestry needle. DO NOT sew through the eye of the tapestry needle or you won't be able to get it out. Turn the tapestry needle ("spin" it) to expose more unsewn edge and keep stitching. When about 1/2 to 2/3 of the hole is stitched, you can remove the tapestry needle & finish stitching. For eyelets made with this technique, lacing will be eased by using a smaller tapestry needle. (unless you have aglets on your laces.) 1/8" ribbon or a small cord will fit through them. These tiny sewn eyelets are good for dress lacings. Corsets will usually need larger holes because they generally use larger lacings. -Carol Kocian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:41:36 -0700 From: erin1@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erin Harvey Moody) Subject: Re: Sewn Eyelets Carol, thanks for your interesting post and detailed techniques. To answer a few questions: I use an awl for separating threads and preparing fabric for introducing a grommet. These are available at leather shops, needlework shops and through the Clothilde catalogue. An awl would be a little bigger than a tapestry needle, and it has a nice handle to work with. On period corsets: I have only seen metal grommets for 19thC and later period corsets thus far. I have yet to see a corset that has the metal grometts over stitched with floss/thread. I do see it alot with modern reproductions.... On gowns: I have seen both handsewn buttonholes and "eyelettes" (buttonholes being almost closed horizontal slits, eyelettes being small round openings in the fabric). I have examined some evening gowns where the stitching was so tight and reinforced that it is possible a small metal ring was part of the eyelette hole, but that would be conjecture on my part. As you wrote earlier, the corset would have been the stressed garment and reinforced with metal, the outer wear was amazingly delicate, showed little stress at the lacings. Most of the actual gowns I have studied had handsewn openings or hooks and eyes. Erin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:47:26 -0700 From: cynthia@caere.com Subject: Costume Closet Cleaning C O S T U M E C L O S E T C L E A R A N C E or A Virtual Yardsale A reproduction 1850's ballgown the color of baked salmon. Approx size 14 or 16. Black lace & ribbon trim. Skirt is 45" length, cartridge pleated. Great for Dickens Faire, Gaskell's and other dancing or theatrical venues. Extra fabric included. Peach & cream 1880s ladies street costume made for a Gilbert and Sullivan show. 20+ vintage hats from the 1930s thru 50s. Some are mink, veiled, feathered, sequined or beaded. Many colors. Excellent condition. Odd bits of fantasy costumes: Man's fur vest, fur hat, black cotton "pirate" shirt, generally 44" chest. Approx 12 1890s and 1900s Victorian and Edwardian "waists". Sizes are variously modern 2 to modern 8 petite. Fabulous for study of construction techniques. 1940s silk red dress w/ white dots. Good condition. Petite 6. 2 framed fashion plates from Godey's Ladies' Book, Oct 1869 and Aug? 1870. Archival mats and denglass. (I have too many.) Man's vest, double breasted, taupe/black hounds tooth, 38"chest. Armistice blouse: black, vintage? Size 8 or 10. Childs coat (for age 10-14) in light grey wool. Probably 1950s, but would be great trimmed in ribbon for Civil War/ Dickens era. Reproduction 1860 corset for 5'8" or 9" lady. Guessing: waist 28-30, bust 38C. Excellent condition and workmanship. Stash of fabric suitable for 19th c. repro costume. Cotton velvets, and dress fabrics in peach, salmon, rust and warm grey. Edwardian ladies high button shoes (modern size 8 or 9) in excellent condition. Approx turn of the century. Deep brown. 3 dashikis from Kenya (it was a 70's thing). Wild colored African prints. Approx 32" and 34" chest sizes. Very keen! Hand embroidered round eyelet collar. Navy blue bodice (copied from Harper's Bazaar fashion plate ~1884) with extra fabric for a skirt. Size 8 petite. Trimmed in cotton lace, red soutache & gold ribbon. Great for theater. A fur coat, probably rabbit dyed to look like mink, but what do I know? Length mid-thigh, modern size 8 or 10. Possibly 1950s. Sheer silk voile, vintage nightgown 1930s, impeccable condition, blonde lace at shoulders, salmon pink thru-out. Size 10 or 12 and very long. White rabbit fur mules, excellent condition. White figure skates, size 8 or 9. Modern. Ladies' Renaissance Faire outfit, "tourist class". Lavender & brown reversible damask weave. Extra fabric. (Approx 9 yards & could be remade.) Misc calico fabric, buttons (metal, fabric covered, bakelite, celluloid), eyelet trim, braid trim. Misc items in fur: collars & muffs. Lots of small feathers in parrot green. Red feather boa. 2 black feather boas. Extra sewing supplies. ... there's more -=-=-=-=-=- How this works: contact me and ask to see what you're interested in. We'll make arrangements. All items on a "Best Offer" basis. Everything will be sold or donated to non-profit museums or theater groups. Proceeds from vintage clothes benefit Ardenwood Farm State Historical Park in Fremont Calif. --cin Cynthia Barnes Sr. Software Engr Caere Corporation 100 Cooper Court Los Gatos CA 95030 408.395.5148 x2224 internet: Cynthia@caere.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 12:47:51 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #231 RE: Greaves. I'm not sure what the question was, whether they had greaves in the 13th c. or whether they had them in goliath's time (not certain when that was either exactly, ca. 800 BC??) There is archaeological evidence of Persians, Assyrians (Babylonians), etc. having greaves, but that's only about 500 BC. Didn;t the Egyptians have them? I'm gettiing into trouble here, have to go home and look things ups. Never mind. Susan Fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 16:24:52 -500 From: "Carol Kocian" Subject: Re: Sewn Eyelets Rhodry's Questions: > 1. Does the fabric around the eyelet weaken from the number of > times a needle has passed through for the buttonhole stitch? No, not on mine. I haven't heard of this happening with grommets, either. > 2. What kind of thread do you use for the buttonhole stitch? I use a regular silk sewing thread. Silk has poor abrasion resistance (it will wear from rubbing) but the garment won't be worn often enough for this to be a problem. I also use linen thread when appropriate. (For linen thread, Frederick Fawcett 1 (800) BUY-YARN) > 3. How many strands? 2 strands. 1 length with both ends knotted together. > 4. When did this technique start being used? No one ever taught me the idea of using a tapestry needle to hold the hole open for stitching. I thought of it myself. Erin Harvey Moody was the one who mentioned not cutting holes to begin with. Erin, what is your technique to stitch an eyelet when there is no hole? I also haven't studied period garments to see if eyelets were made with no snipping. > I have heard of a similar technique for covering grommets (grommet the > fabric, then take a needle and thread & do the buttonhole stich around, > hence, covering the metal grommet) and thought that while this would hide > the metal grommet well, it would weaken the fabric around the grommet, > thus causing it to rip out sooner that it would uncovered? Stitching to cover a metal grommet is a reenactor's trick so a metal grommet will not show. This is commonly used for interpreting time periods when metal grommets were not available. I don't know if this is a legitimate technique for any time period, although today we do have hooks & eyes with thread coverings! Some people use grommets on corsets when inappropriate for the period, because underwear won't show. I suppose overstitching could weaken the fabric if damage was done while stitching. I thought the stitches would make the grommet less likely to rip out, since the load is spread out more. Erin said a smaller hole that stretched around the grommet makes it less likely to rip out. I did hear once that Elizabethans used metal rings to strengthen eyelets, but they did not have grommets as we know them. Does anyone have documentation for this? I think grommets came into use on clothing sometime in the 19th century, particularly on corsets. I would think grommets would have been used on sails or other non-clothing items first. Dresses in the 19thC would still have sewn eyelets, since the "work" was being done by the corset. Does anyone know for sure? -Carol Kocian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 12:05:27 -0700 From: Heather Meadows Subject: Web Site for H-Costume Hi - [I normally mail from godiva@bing.apple.com - this is Heather] I know it's been discussed before that people would like to see and display photos of their work, or photos of non- copyrighted period images etc... but that the list is not the appropriate place to do this - -- and that a web site would be perfect. well I have a web site, http://www.wonderland.com/ and since we've added another machine and we're upgrading the connection soon, I feel we would be able to handle this, and I would be willing to manage the web site for H-Costume if people would like that - they can mail me [at this account, costume@jabberwock.wonderland.com so I don't drown my normal mail :)] gifs, jpegs, pointers to their own pages or other people's pages they would like to see, and we can start setting up a web site... we can mirror the archives or h-costume, and make them easily searchable through a web front end.. I'm *ALL* excited about it, but I don't want to duplicate anyone's efforts or step on any toes.. I just wanted to let people know I have this resource and see if they wanted to utilize it - -Heather Meadows eWorld Webmaster Apple Internet Service... and passionate about historical costuming ;) ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #233 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!