From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #237 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Wednesday, October 25 1995 Volume 3, Number 237 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: Stumpwork Re: Answers Re: COSTUME: Black wool -> blue Re: Re: Answers Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #236 wedding ring history Lions and tigers and bears, oh my. Hennin loops WW1 Costume Books? Fashion in Bohemia, 1870 to 1914 Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #236 Frankish clothing, 800-900 Singapore sights? Vintage dance classes in San Francisco Bay Area Re: Re: Answers Fur and Cold Storage Rococco ballgown Re: Bound Buttonholes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 02:01:32 -0400 From: margritt@mindspring.com (Margritte) Subject: Re: Stumpwork At 12:06 PM 10/24/95, Karen Lovejoy wrote: >I am seeking information on Stumpwork or padded applique. If you have titles >of books or any other sources, I would very much appreciate it. >Also, I am looking for information on how to make rose beads. Thanks for the >help. > > Hmmm... I wonder I have sent my instructions for rose-petal beads to Karen. If anyone else would like them, let me know. I'll be glad to pass them along. Also, does anyone have documentable evidence of rose-petal beads being made in the Middle Ages? Thanks. - -Margritte - ------------------------------------------------------------ Gryphon's Moon - Request our free catalog of Celtic jewelry. email margritt@mindspring.com or check out our web page at http://www.mindspring.com/~maclain/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:57:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Rhodry Subject: Re: Answers > The period cleaning techniques I have used successfully are > Snip < > Never used the smoky fire technique for getting rid of fleas - not needed > to! Changing altitudes kills fleas and is much easier than washing the cat. (I don't know how much of an altitude change though. The cat in question came up from 260 feet, over a pass of 7,000 feet.) So I would image this would work for clothing also. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:44:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Rhodry Subject: Re: COSTUME: Black wool -> blue > In reply to the person who asked about bleaching a black wool coat to redye it > dark blue--DON'T. You cannot bleach wool. Wool is a protein fiber and chlorine > bleach will DESTROY it (silk also). Lifting a color as dark as black is almost > impossible to do with decent results on any fabric. In this case, with a wool > fabric, and a garment that is already constructed (rather than yardage), it's > impossible. You will only destry the coat. Either your boyfriend will have to > be happy with black, or he will have to get another coat. Not to long ago, this list was discussing diferent dying techniques and tea dyes and snow dyes came up. Would a snow dye work to bleach the dark wool? You can probably find the details on snow dying in the archives. - Rhodry ------------------------------ Date: 25 Oct 95 11:15:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Re: Re: Answers Interesting, cold certainly kills cat fleas (which is why we don't have trouble with fleas in the winter, as a cat owner), but the eggs are more resistant. Is this why fur coats are stored in refrigeration - anyone know? However, I haven't seen any reference to using cold to kill human fleas - anyone? Perhaps humans weren't prepared to get that cold, or that type of flea is more resistant - or it was quicker and simpler to use smoke and/or heat (I have seen a reference to using irons on seams to kill fleas and their eggs). Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 07:57:44 -0500 From: Gary Stephens Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #236 Elaine was asking: >Does anyone out there know when the practice of wearing wedding rings >began? Did women wear them before men? I'm particularly interested >in the 18th C for stage purposes, but would also generally like to >know when this practice started. Thanks, Elaine While I am not an authority on this topic, I did print the first of a two-part article on the subject of finger rings in a newsletter I publish. The author, Brenda Roy, is in fact a fine metalsmith who has done considerable research on the subject of finger rings. Brenda tells me the practice of wedding rings is in fact quite old. To quote her article: Rings were important indicators of status and wealth in the Migration and Medieval periods, but were not worn exclusively by the nobility. Unlike the Roman era, they were not used to distinguish a certain class of society, nor were they a mark of military distinction. They were worn by townspeople, and merchants as well as nobility, and were worn for many reasons: as simple decoration; for use as a seal; as tokens of love, betrothed or relgious devotion, or even for magical protection. As to a precise date, you could contact Brenda by way of regular post. She unfortunately does not have e-mail access. If you wish this, please write me under private e-mail and I will be pleased to give you her address. Lorina Stephens ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 07:37:58 CDT From: SANDY STAEBELL Subject: wedding ring history A number of years ago I did some research for a talk on wedding customs. The following is some of the information I came across: 1. The wedding ring's shape embodies the Egyptian concept of never ending love. 2. The ancient Romans and Jews in early historical times also sometimes wore wedding rings. 3. Anglo-Saxon couples wore the ring on the third finger of the right hand. 4. One reference I came across indicated that today we wear the ring on the third finger of the left hand because a vein in that hand supposedly ran directly to the heart. Also the left hand ws considered feminine and submissive and the right hand was masculine and dominant. 5. They're too late for your period but late 19th century ettiquette books sometimes discuss which stone is preferred for the engagement ring. 6. You might try to look at two books. A Short History of Marriage: Marriage Rites, Customs and Folklore in Many Countries and All Ages by Ethel L. Urlin (Detroit: Singing Tree Press, 1969) and And the Bride Wore ... The Story of the White Wedding by Ann Monsarrat (Lond: Gentry Books, 1973) Hope some of this helps. Sandy Staebell staebsl@wkuvx1.wku.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:39:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Katherine L. Rodman" Subject: Lions and tigers and bears, oh my. I know that this does not fall under our normal balliwick, but I was hoping someone out there might be able to help. I am looking for a bear costume in men's size 42R for our fall performance of Carousel. IF any of the rental houses out there that are on line have such a costume to rent or loan, please contact me at (904) 392-1639 or e-mail me privately at the address listed below. Thank you. Kat Katherine L. Rodman Gainesville, FL afn25136@freenet.ufl.edu "Historical accuracy and costume design do not neccessarily go hand in hand" John Conklin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:56:34 -0700 From: Joan Broneske Subject: Hennin loops When my husband and I got married in February of 1994, we dressed, I'd = say middle to late 1400's and I made a hennin for my wedding dress. I = guess it is called a flower pot hennin. It is not the pointed kind, but = shaped like a flower pot. I really had no idea what I was doing, but = just looked at some pictures. I made it out of buckram and I put some = millinery wire around the bottom, the part that goes around your head. = Well, that helped it stay on my head, because it was quite top heavy, = but it hurt my forehead like he**!! I had seen the loops in the = pictures, but decided to leave it off; maybe I should have put it on!!=20 Anyways, it came out pretty good for my first attempt. Joan Broneske ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 11:03:48 -0700 From: kondoa@ucs.orst.edu Subject: WW1 Costume Books? I just bought another of the Dover reprint of WW1 era clothing catalogues. I've noticed a lot more of them coming out lately. I love this period & wondered if it is becoming more popluar. (5 years ago, it was difficult to find mainstream publications about this era, most of the costume reprints were either Victorian or 1920's). Does anyone know if more books will be coming out or if any reproduction companies will be offering more patterns? (I have many of the currently available ones). Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 11:11:16 -0700 From: cynthia@caere.com Subject: Fashion in Bohemia, 1870 to 1914 FYI, anyone going to the Paris-Prague dance weeks, July 96, might be interested in this: Update on book of Prague fashions, volume II (1870-1914), called "From the Waltz to the Tango." It has loads of pictures of dancing outfits for both men and women. There are photos of clothing in the exhibit as well as Czech advertisements for clothing including a "Corzet Tango". It's this summer's exhibit catalog published by the Museum of Decorative Arts Museum in Prague in collaboration with Oswald Publishing. ISBN is 80-7101-025-1. The previous volume (which I dont yet have) covers the years 1780 to 1870. --cin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:45:27 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #236 Wedding rings go back to at least the Roman period (they believed the love vein in the finger thing , too) maybe farther. They weren't always the classic "plain gold band", they could have stones, etc. Susan Fatemi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 18:20:37 PDT From: ches@tristero.io.com Subject: Frankish clothing, 800-900 Can anyone here help this dear person? If so please direct answers to her as well as here: jkubenka@post.cis.smu.edu - ---------------Original Message--------------- Trying to research Frankish clothing, from oh, around 800-900 or so, and not having a whole lot of luck (Anybody with any slight clues, please email me so we can discuss this -- I already have the Compleat Anachronist on Women's clothing, #59) Oh, I remembered my final question. I have this wild idea to make a series of painted panels to go on their own frame, which will in turn go around our very ugly, very 20th century tent. I have absolutely no experience painting anything (unless you count the emergency tunic I had to make for my Lord Archibald so that he could fight down at Opening Weekend at TRF -- I learned a few things, like washing the cotton helps..., even if there is a nasty time crunch, just a few hours, to make the thing), so if you've got any words of advice for me, please email me. Our personas are late 15th-early 16th century, so I am also researching designs from this era to paint. Sorry to be so long-winded, but I had a lot to write, Emher ni Maille, Elfsea Jennifer D. Kubenka Series Authority/Monographs Cataloger Fondren Library Southern Methodist University Dallas, Texas - ----------End of Original Message---------- - ------------------------------------- Ciao Ches E-mail: Ches@io.com This message was sent by Chameleon - ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 19:00:16 -0700 From: kondoa@ucs.orst.edu Subject: Singapore sights? I found recently that a trip to Singapore may be in my future...does anybody know of good museums with clothing collections, libraries, etc? My research interest is in Chinese clothing. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 19:51:37 -0700 From: Allan Terry Subject: Vintage dance classes in San Francisco Bay Area VINTAGE DANCE CLASSES The East Bay Vintage Dance Society schedule for November and Dcember is: November 4: Victorian dance taught by Stan Isaacs November 11: Schottische variations taught by Terry & Grimble; Napoleonienne, Rockaway, Bronco, Harvard & more November 18: Turning redowas and mazurkas taught by Terry & Grimble; Three mazurka waltzes, Redowa L'Eclair & more November 25: NO CLASS--THANKSGIVING December 2: Victorian dance taught by Stan Isaacs December 9: 5/4 waltz variations taught by Terry & Grimble; Five-step polka redowa, 5/4 with racket & more December 16: SPECIAL RENAISSANCE CANARY WORKSHOP taught by Terry & Grimble The late 16th-century canary as a complete dance, including step variations, figures & styling; $8 December 23: NO CLASS--CHRISTMAS December 30: NO CLASS--NEW YEAR'S CLASSES WILL RESUME ON A REGULAR WEEKLY BASIS IN JANUARY All dance variations are researched from original sources, some especially for this class. We do our best to always teach fresh and interesting material, and to teach good styling. All classes will be held on Saturday mornings, 10:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. at St. Johns Presbyterian Church 2727 College Avenue, Room 203 Berkeley, California The price is $6/person. No partner required. This is a regular series of weekly classes that will continue in upcoming months. For further information, call Clare Burmeister at (510) 527-5588. Or e-mail clareb@consensus.com or aterry@teknowledge.com October 28: NO CLASS--THE HALL WAS RENTED OUT FROM UNDER US November 4: Victorian dance November 11: Victorian dance November 18: Victorian dance November 25: NO CLASS--THANKSGIVING SPECIAL RENAISSANCE CANARY WORKSHOP ON DECEMBER 16 The Victorian dances taught will include mazurka waltzes, 5/4 waltzes, Newport, Napoleonienne, Bronco, and interesting polka, galop, and schottische variations. All dance variations are researched from original sources, some especially for this class. We do our best to always teach fresh and interesting material, and to teach good styling. All classes will be held on Saturday mornings, 10:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. at St. Johns Presbyterian Church 2727 College Avenue, Room 203 Berkeley, California The price is $6/person. No partner required. Men and couples are certainly welcome. But if any women are worried about having a partner--for some reason this class consistently has more men than women. This is a regular series of weekly classes that will continue in upcoming months. For further information, call Clare Burmeister at (510) 527-5588. Or e-mail clareb@consensus.com or aterry@teknowledge.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:01:29 +1000 From: kylie@psy.uq.edu.au (Kylie McDougall) Subject: Re: Re: Answers Caroline Yeldham wrote: >However, I haven't seen any reference to using cold to kill human fleas - >anyone? Perhaps humans weren't prepared to get that cold, or that type of >flea is more resistant - or it was quicker and simpler to use smoke and/or >heat (I have seen a reference to using irons on seams to kill fleas and >their eggs). I work with a woman from Zimbabwe who lived during the early years of her marriage on dam sites in the "wild". There were all sorts of flies with their eggs to be careful of. Everybody had to iron with a very hot coal iron the inside and outside of all items worn or placed on the body - nappies, underpants, bras, clothes, towels. This was to kill the putzi (sic) fly eggs that were unable to be seen by human eyes and would hatch worms under the skin. Kylie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:25:30 +1000 From: "GILLIAN RICHARDS (02) 716 3712" Subject: Fur and Cold Storage I always thought the cold storage for furs was to stop them shedding, which they would do if they were kept i the wamrm for too long and thought it was summer. When Grace Bros at Broadway closed down some years ago (one of the old big department stores from the 20s), it emptied out 50 years of furs left for repair and storage that had been forgotten by their owners and left in the cold room. Alas, they were then donated to our Powerhouse museum. (Mainly collars and stoles - not a single full-length sable coat among them!) + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + | Gillian Richards - TAFE NSW - (02) 716 3712 (space for ASCII | | aka: gillian.richards@tafensw.edu.au picture when I | | "The Midnight Fox", "Mummy" find the time!) | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:37:23 -0400 (EDT) From: BARBARASHU@delphi.com Subject: Rococco ballgown I am interested in making an 18th century Rococco ballgown. Can anyone recommend a pattern (the easier, the better) and appropriate fabrics? I understand that women wore mostly pastels during this period. True? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Barbara in L.A. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 20:57:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Alice Morgan" Subject: Re: Bound Buttonholes Most of the tailoring taught now seams to focus on tailoring for womens garments, and there is very little information on tailoring for mens garments. Its been a subject of interest to me, but I have not found a lot of information yet. Differences between a man and womans tailored garment: for men, the under collar is felt, while for the woman is the "fashion fabric" same as exterior fabric of the suit Men's suits will have stiched buttonholes, a womans will have bound. The usual regarding which side the buttons are on. Men's suits are more likely to have a pocket in chest area, since there is less bulk on most men than women in this area. They may be other differences. Any one else a fan of tailoring techinues used in the last 150 years? Alice Carol Kocian said something close to this: > snip, asking about use of bound buttonholes > I would think they were used on tailored menswear of the 19thC & > 20thC. I don't have any evidence if this is true & when it began. The > Costume Institute at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York has > some of the Duke of Windsor's suits from the 1930's. (I think I have > the name right - the man who abdicated the throne to marry Wallis > Simpson) Those suits have stitched buttonholes. (I don't recall if > they were done by machine or by hand - I was looking for bound Probably by hand, even now a good tailor will sew them by hand, though there are now sewing machines that can do a reasonable job a sewn buttonhole. > buttonholes!) I do remember seeing them on women's suits & coats of > the 1930's through 1950's. I was taught that a bound buttonhole was a > nicer technique in a tailoring class in 1982. (All women in the Right, most classses now are tailoring for women, while I want to sew some classic dashing outfits for my SO. (if my wrists would hold out for all the hand sewing as part of traditional tailoring. > class) If it's a nicer technique, why wouldn't the Duke have them? > Are they used primarily for heavy coats? > While we're at it, any information on welt pockets? > > Thanks! > -Carol Kocian - -- Alice Morgan Spotted Dog Systems Never attribute to malice that which is adequately described by stupidity ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #237 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!