From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #239 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Monday, October 30 1995 Volume 3, Number 239 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Thanks! Re: 20,000 Years of Fashion Re: Re: Answers Frankish costume 800-900 Re: 20000 Years of Fashion Re: 20,000 Years of Fashion infants costumes RE: infants costumes Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #238 re: infant clothes Re: Rose beads Re: Rose beads Re: Rococco ballgown OK, now what? Re: infants costumes Henrician Sources 1860's buttons ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 00:08:01 -0400 From: MerrimacGA@aol.com Subject: Thanks! Just a quick thanks to everyone who responded to my post about costumers. I've got quite a few people to follow up with and I'll try to get to all of you in the next few days. Wow, I really didn't expect the response I got! Thanks again. Mary Macdonald ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:26:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Re: 20,000 Years of Fashion > Got a question for you. I have found listed in a catalog the book "20,000 > Years of Fashion" by Francous Boucher. It is a history of costume and > personal adornment. Does anyone have or has any one seen this book? I am > wondering if it is worth getting. The info on it says that it is a definitive > study of mankind's efforts to cover, decorate, and improve the apperance of > the human body. Well, I consider it a basic book without which someone interested in a range of periods should not be. It's mostly "western" costume but considers other cultures (and their influence on the west). It was apparently originally written for a university level home ec class in France, and it's kind of a sociology of clothing. Lots and lots of illos--mostly from art. I wouldn't want to use it as a pattern source, but it's great for ideas and for an idea of how clothing fits into culture and history. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 22:43:24 PDT From: ke6isf@outlander (Dennis Allen Carr) Subject: Re: Re: Answers Mrs C S Yeldham writes: > Interesting, cold certainly kills cat fleas (which is why we don't have > trouble with fleas in the winter, as a cat owner), but the eggs are more > resistant. Is this why fur coats are stored in refrigeration - anyone > know? > > However, I haven't seen any reference to using cold to kill human fleas - > anyone? Perhaps humans weren't prepared to get that cold, or that type of > flea is more resistant - or it was quicker and simpler to use smoke and/or > heat (I have seen a reference to using irons on seams to kill fleas and > their eggs). > Fleas is fleas, Caroline. It's not really a good idea for anyone to get that cold. Best way I've seen to get fleas off (well, there's now 2!) was the high altitude method described a while back, or eucalyptus oil. (I've seen the latter in supermarkets for about US$5 for about 3 or 4 ounces.) Sorry if this is an old post - the UUCP server broke down. =( KE6ISF uublip!outlander!ke6isf@ccss.com v3.1 GCC d-(-) s: a-- c++ U?>$ P L>+++ E? !W-- N+(+) o K- !w O? M- V? PS-- PE(+)@ Y PGP? t+ 5 X(+) R tv b+ DI+ D? G e h-- r !y- I'M NOT REALLY SANE!!!! am i? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 08:55 CDT From: ROBERT@UIAMVS.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU Subject: Frankish costume 800-900 Jennifer- I am unclear about what you are wanting. Are you interested in any Frankish clothing from 800-900 or are you interested in a particular design. > I have two tertiary sources (Yarwood's _Costume of the western World > and an SCA Compleat Anachronist) who both show basically the same > picture for Frankish garb, oh, around 850 or so. > Which CA do you have? What page is the picture on? The Yarwood book was stolen from my local library so I can't look at it. > It is an undertunic, an overtunic with a contrasting color for the > clavi (both of these are flared, not straight), and a collar and belt > (heavily decorated in a Byzantineish fashion) also of the contrasting > color. > > However, I have not been able to find a secondary or primary source > from whence this picture came. > > Or, for that matter, have I been able to find out much at all about > Frankish clothing in the later years, oh, I guess the eighth and > ninth centuries. and from a separate post... > > Trying to research Frankish clothing, from oh, around 800-900 or so, > and not having a whole lot of luck (Anybody with any slight clues, > please email me so we can discuss this -- I already have the Compleat > Anachronist on Women's clothing, #59) > I don't doubt you aren't finding Franish costume for 800-900 in that CA. Although the information is good, it does not cover that time/region. Have you looked for Carolingian costumes as that is what the Franks in 800-900 are more commonly called? I have not researched this time/place but have researched Anglo-Saxon from about the same time. Owen-Crocker's book on Dress in Anglo-Saxon England has 4 redrawings from the Stuttgart Psalter, a Carolingian manuscript, which show women's clothing. The book Carolingian Painting (don't have the citation at hand) has a couple of pictures of women, painted in the 9th century. These are just off the top of my head/off my book shelf sources. I'm sure a proper perusal of your nearest library will yield more references. If you are still having problems, or are set on one particular outfit, please let me know. Hope this helps. ****************************** Wendy Robertson Serials Cataloging University of Iowa (319) 335-5894 wendy-robertson@uiowa.edu ****************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 8:36:43 From: "Joe Cook" Subject: Re: 20000 Years of Fashion It can also be of use from its documentation standpoints. Boucher doesn't always go into full detail, but he lists pictorial backup wherever possible and has several extent period items pictured. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 13:55:56 PDT From: ches@tristero.io.com Subject: Re: 20,000 Years of Fashion This is by far one of the best investments I made. I bought it out of a company in Austin Texas who ordered it out of a wearhouse in California, it cost 65.00. The color plates are more cleaner than any other costume book I have. You would have to get museum color plates to match the quality of these photos. - ------------------------------------- Ciao Ches E-mail: Ches@io.com This message was sent by Chameleon - ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 12:59:04 PDT From: ches@tristero.io.com Subject: infants costumes I have looked in all my costume books and in several SCA publications and have not found any mention of costumes for infants. I mean the ones that are not walking yet. So I went to the commercial pattern books and found the closest thing to a decent costume patterns for my 8 week old that look like Italian Ren. They are costumes for stuffed bunny rabbits. I didn't even have to alter them. It comes in 19 to 24 inch long patterns. The large is small enough to fit her now and large enough to fit her until her diapered waist is 16 inches, (with the diaper it is 11 inches right now). The pictures on the pattern look like country fair but the underdress is perfect and it can be done again for the outer dress with the sleeves laced on instead of sewn on. I Scotch guard the costumes against spit up and any fire hazards. Has anyone else tried to make period costumes for their infants? I am not looking for binding clothing just nice things that I can get her in and out of easily to change her diaper. - ------------------------------------- Ciao Ches E-mail: Ches@io.com This message was sent by Chameleon - ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 13:05:57 PDT From: julie_adams@corp.Cubic.COM Subject: RE: infants costumes I have done a number of costumes for my toddler, now 2, since he was an infant. His first costume was a tiny loose fitting long-sleeved linen smock with a small pointed cap which tied under the chin. I put bobbin lace with period looking pecots around the neck and cuffs. He barely over 4 lbs when I could bring him home (he was born 10 wks early at 2 lbs 7 oz. and in the hospital for 7 wks), and we went to visit a tourney for a few hours about 2 wks after he came home. I made tiny hose by tracing the bottoms of other preemie jammies, and patterned the smock from a preemie outfit I was given as a gift. It only took about an hour to make the whole outfit. He was so small I padded a tourney basket to take him in. I brought extra t-shirts and socks for layering underneath, if it got cool, as well as soft white blankets for swaddling. A plain linen smock and cap are fine for most periods after 1500 for newborns, and one could always swaddle them in white receiving blankets as well if the weather is not too warm. At the same Tourney that I brought out my son, there were two mothers that were wearing costumes of heavy fabric as well as cloaks, because the weather cooled in the late November afternoon. Their infants (about 4 and 8 months) were still in T-shirts and diapers when I left for the day. I am still amazed at how many small children do not have appropriate clothing, especially for cool weather. My pediatrician had always said that when it is under 70 degrees to put one layer more than an adult would wear on an infant. I love sewing for him. It takes so little time and fabric. I still keep his outfits for keepsakes, especially that first one. julie adams ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:11:28 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #238 I think plus-fours were popularized by the Prince of Wales (Edward VIII) during the 30's. No? Susan Fatemii susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 15:24:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimberly Smay Subject: re: infant clothes I made "renn" costumes for my girls this fall(2 yrs and 5 monthes). I just made lottle chemises like mine(raglan sleeve, gathered neck and wrists). I also made a tabard with laced sides for the elder with a cap. No major research, but my recollection from grad school is that children wore minature versions of their parents clothes. Folkwear also makes a pattern for baby clothes that I believe is mostly nonwestern, but all traditional. Kimberly Smay ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 14:13:54 +1000 (EST) From: Katrina Hunt Subject: Re: Rose beads The only reference to Rose beads being made in the Middle Ages that I have come across is recipes for perfumes for burning and possibly some pomander recipes. I will dig these out. Katrina ******************************************************************************* * * * David and Katrina Hunt | thehunts@canberra.dialix.oz.au * * Stephen Aldred & Mathilde Adycote | 24 Edwards St Higgins ACT Australia * Baron & Baroness Politarchopolis | Phone (06) 254 3059 * * * ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 03:28:36 -0400 From: margritt@mindspring.com (Margritte) Subject: Re: Rose beads At 2:13 PM 10/28/95, Katrina Hunt wrote: >The only reference to Rose beads being made in the Middle Ages that I >have come across is recipes for perfumes for burning and possibly some >pomander recipes. I will dig these out. >Katrina Many thanks! Do you mean that they made the beads, and then burned them? Or did they simply use a form of incence that had rose petals in it? - -Margritte - ------------------------------------------------------------ Gryphon's Moon - Request our free catalog of Celtic jewelry. email margritt@mindspring.com or check out our web page at http://www.mindspring.com/~maclain/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 17:52:38 -0400 (EDT) From: pursel darlene elizabeth 673761TP1 Subject: Re: Rococco ballgown Dear Barbara, When I made my Rococo ballgown, I used a pattern that I had ordered from Amazon Drygoods. I will find the catalogue and send you the pattern number. It does not, however, come with any patterns or ideas on how to make the paniers to hold the skirt out. I made mine by making a pattern up out of my own head and used materials that I thought would hold the weight of the fabric, and I was successful. Brocade is an appropriate fabric to use for the gown. In the paniers, I used metal strapping (used on shipping crates and furniture) to give it it's rigidity. I will check a couple of reference books for you and I will post the information to you sometime during the week. Hope this helps. Darlene in Toronto On Wed, 25 Oct 1995 BARBARASHU@delphi.com wrote: > I am interested in making an 18th century Rococco ballgown. Can > anyone recommend a pattern (the easier, the better) and > appropriate fabrics? I understand that women wore mostly > pastels during this period. True? > Any advice is greatly appreciated. > Barbara in L.A. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 17:36:34 -0500 From: deirdre@deeny.MV.COM (Deirdre) Subject: OK, now what? I finally managed to get Raiment's catalog & himself has pointed out the pattern closest to what he wanted made in terms of a costume. What he selected was the "Early Tudor Men's Garments" pattern (Raiments catalog page 9-P) with a skirted doublet. On that page, it's the outfit above and to the left of the Henry-style one. The guy's wearing a hat too, but I can't identify the type and it doesn't come in the pattern. Basically, once I get the pattern, then what? The nice part about sewing for myself is that I know a lot more about what to do. In this case, I'm sewing for someone who DOES want historical accuracy so he can use the same garb for SCA events and such. _Deirdre ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 15:41:57 -0600 (CST) From: Gwyndlyn J Ferguson Subject: Re: infants costumes While I don't have an infant of my own, the head of my household does, and I have become the resident baby-costumer. :) I have had great sucess with a dress pattern from "New Look" which has a high-waisted bodice (yoke) and a full skirt, with little puff sleeves. The bodice is supposed to button in the back, but I used concealed snaps. I added a straight lower sleeve to the puff sleeve and have Italian ren. or Tudor. Little Sean has two court outfits from this pattern, my favorite is in purple cotton velveteen with gold machine embroidery and faux pearls on the bodice -- and it's washable! This pattern comes in infant through 18 months (I think), and is inexpensive enough to just have a new one for each size change. I add matching booties and diaper covers for the complete look, along with a bonnet (sans ruffles). Seeing children in garb is so nice, and it really doesn't take that much more effort. For non-fancy stuff, I use the same t-tunic pattern I make for adults, just scaled down, with pants and booties. For toddlers and older children, I have seen the recent "Christopher Columbus" pattern (Simplicity, McCalls?) used to great sucess. Good luck, let's see those children in garb! Gwyn *Gwyn Ferguson***Western Illinois University *SCA: Lady Gwyndlyn Caer Vyrddin***Lochmorrow-Midrealm *Internet: mugjf@bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: 30 Oct 95 10:24:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Henrician Sources Someone on the list asked me about non-costume sources of info for a Henrician lady in waiting. I'm afraid I've lost her mailing, so I hope people will forgive me for mailing it here. There are plenty of generalised history books covering Henry's reign, Anne Boleyn, the Divorce and the switch to the Reformed Church - none of them particularly spring to mind. Antonia Frazier's 'The 6 Wives of Henry VIII' covers the ground pretty well, and will give you good references to pursue. I am currently reading a very interesting book, 'Royal Palaces of Tudor England' by Simon Thurley, Yale University Press (ISBN 0-300-05420-3) and can highly recommend it. It gives details of the organisation of the court, how it was reflected in the architecture of the palaces (and I hadn't realised before how much building Henry VIII did - he had over 70 palaces by the end of his reign, compared to about 20 on his father's death), where people slept, who was fed by the Court, layouts of the kitchens and the toilets - all the nitty gritty I really want to know! According to the author, its in Henry's reign the Great Hall ceases to be the centre of the Court (or any household), becoming an unfashionable area, and the King and Queen create a range of private rooms, which are then the centre of interest. As primary sources, try the Lisle Letters, edited by Muriel St Clare Byrne. There's an upteen volume version, and a one volume edited highlights published by Penguin in the UK. Lord Lisle was an illegitimate Plantagenet cousin of Henry VIII, who was Governor of Calais from 1533 to the 1540's, when he was arrested on suspected treason - which is why these letters survive. Wonderful details about everyday life - with a constant stream of gifts going across the Channel (esp quail - the Calais area was famous for them!) to Henry, his current wife and other members of the Court. A less accessible primary source is probably the Eltham Ordnances, the only copy I've seen was in the British Library (but there is a reference in the Royal Palaces book if you want to chase it down). This was a set of ordnances on how to run the Royal Palaces drafted up by Wolsey in 1526. It includes details of how much the cooks were entitled to from the goods supplied to the palace - eg one cook was entitled to all the salmon tails, another to all the fat produced in the roasting house. This is on top of salary and board! It also raises interesting questions about how much was eaten - All the calculations I've seen are based on animals supplied for a specific feast, and relate to size of animal, but don't calculate in how much the cooks walked off with (presumably to sell)! Hope this helps. Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 06:28:55 -0800 (PST) From: Catnip Subject: 1860's buttons I'm currently making an 1860's blouse and skirt for the SF Dickens Christmas Fair. The blouse is nearly complete, except for the buttons. What type of buttons are commercially available that are fairly close to period? My 8-gore skirt is a steel blue, and my blouse is white, so I was hoping to get white or neutral color buttons. Any and all information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! - - Dorothy catnip@crl.com ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #239 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!