From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #242 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Friday, November 3 1995 Volume 3, Number 242 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Tate Exhibition - Dynasties Tate Exhibition - Dynasties Re: Tate Exhibition - Dynasties Rosary/Rose Beads Re: Tate Exhibition - Dynasties Victorian Fabrics Tudor Torso Re: Tudor Torso Re: Victorian Fabrics Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? pre-1840 Re: Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? Re: Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? Re: Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? Re: ISBN Tate Exhibition Shoe Vender Address ISBN Re: Tudor Torso--Pattern Re Re: Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? Elizabethan Costuming ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 01 Nov 95 17:53:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Tate Exhibition - Dynasties The Tate (Millbank, London UK,) are holding an Exhibition called 'Dynasties' on Tudor and Stuart portraiture until 7 January, which I went to see on Saturday. Well worth a visit, indeed I am planning a second visit (combined with a lecture by Janet Arnold on 'Fashion at the Court of Elizabeth I, 1pm on Friday 10 November). Lots of pictures, Holbein and Hans Eworth (not much Hilliard) including some I have never seen before, even in reproduction, from private collections. Some are labelled as new discoveries, and never exhibited before, including the only picture of Arthur (Henry VIII's older brother) from 1501 (apparently wearing a shirt with a white-worked collar). First time I'd seen any of the Larkin pictures for real (there's a room of James I pictures and contemporaries) and they are just amazing - so vivid. First time I'd noticed that the 1554 picture of Mary (gold and red brocade gown) has red work (floral) on the cuffs and slashed area. Also, in the picture of Elizabeth and the Three Goddess, Venus (the nude one on the left) is sitting on a smock which has extensive green work (floral/geometric) in strips all down the body and the sleeves (artistic licence? - isn't green Venus' colour?) They are also having lectures and study days associated with the exhibition. Janet Arnold is lecturing on 'Fashions and the Court of Queen Elizabeth I at 1pm on 10 November (Clore Gallery Auditorium) (free). Karen Hearn (who put the exhibition together) and Maurice Howard, are doing a study morning on 25 November, 10 - 1 for #5 on 'Portraiture and the Domestic Setting'. David Starkey is giving a lecture on 15 November at 6.30 on 'Words and Pictures in Early Tudor Painting' #5 cost. Might be of interest to the UK people, I don't know if the Tate are planning to send it to the USA. Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:47:16 -0500 (EST) From: Marsha Hamilton Subject: Tate Exhibition - Dynasties Ah, to be in England...when exhibits like this are mounted. Do you know if an exhibition catalog is planned? Marsha Forwarded message: > The Tate (Millbank, London UK,) are holding an Exhibition called > 'Dynasties' on Tudor and Stuart portraiture until 7 January, which I went > to see on Saturday...... > Might be of interest to the UK people, I don't know if the Tate are > planning to send it to the USA. > Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:22:48 -0500 (EST) From: Astrida E B Schaeffer Subject: Re: Tate Exhibition - Dynasties Caroline-- And I'm stuck on the wrong side of the Altantic!!! Sounds like a wonderful exhibit. Janet Arnold gives wonderful talks (I had the opportunity to see her in Rhode Island a few years ago). Do you know if there's going to be an exhibition catalog? If so, could you perhaps post an address for the Tate for mail orders? Thanks for letting us know about the exhibit--this isn't the first time I wish I were in Europe! Astrida *************************************************************************** Astrida Schaeffer "All life on Earth is a fairy tale in which outlandish creatures pursue impossible lives" - Rutherford Platt ------------------------------ Date: 02 Nov 95 17:51:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Rosary/Rose Beads Just a quick reply to Victoria's interesting note on Rosaries/Rose Beads. I have at home got some notes on how many beads go into a rosary, which changes over time. There is always some combination of small beads, symbolising the Ave Maria, and large beads, symbolising the Paternoster. In the 16th century the rosary is usually a straight string of beads, beginning and ending with a large bead, and there can be 3, 7 or 10 small beads to each large bead. I think 7 is the usual. Just to clarify one possible point of confusion, a Rosary, also known as a 'pair of beads' need not be made of rose beads - indeed I have never come across such a rosary for the 16th century - they are usually made out of wood or semi-precious stones. According to Diana Scarisbrick in 'Tudor and JAcobean Jewellery' ISBN 1 85437 158 4, Tate Publishing 1995, they were known as Paternosters until the mid-16th century, then rosaries or pairs of beads. They were made of beads of coral, rock-crystal, other had stones as well as enamelled gold and hung with images of saints, hearts and other symbols. MAry I of England owned one consisting of carved agate beads which opened like nuts to reveal enamelled gold scenes from the Gospel. When she rode in procession in London in 1551 her escort of knights, ladies and gentlemen all carried a 'a payre of beads of black'. Rosaries were abolished by Elizabeth I in 1571, so only recusants used them, most of whom adopted the rosary ring, which had ten studs for prayer slightly projecting from the hoop - more easily disguised. If people are interested, the next installment from this book concerns the Agnus Dei, worn as a reliquary! Seriously, if you can, this is a fascinating book on jewellry and how it was worn in the tudor and stuart periods. Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:05:59 -0800 (PST) From: Julie Cheetham Subject: Re: Tate Exhibition - Dynasties Caroline, Is there a catalog for this exhibition (a nice one with good colored photos)? If so, could you tell all of us who wish we could go but can't how we could send for the catalog. Thanks for sharing your visit! Julie Cheetham ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 12:01:05 -0800 From: Joan Broneske Subject: Victorian Fabrics What modern fabrics would be suitable for dresses from 1850-1870? and which ones would be least expensive and most expensive? Joan Broneske unicorn@calweb.com http://www.calweb.com/~unicorn/index.html ------------------------------ Date: 02 Nov 95 15:40:52 EST From: Rhane <74404.22@compuserve.com> Subject: Tudor Torso To: Stacey_Weinberger@smtp.wadsworth.com Subject: tudor/elizabethan torso? <> Have you got an ISBN for it? I hope I can find this one here in England... :) Rhane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 13:09:12 -0800 From: erin1@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erin Harvey Moody) Subject: Re: Tudor Torso >To: Stacey_Weinberger@smtp.wadsworth.com >Subject: tudor/elizabethan torso? > ><modern figure (as well as constructing one) is "Elizabethan >Costuming" by Carolyn Savoy and Janet Arnold. I know it is available through >Lacis in Berkeley, and they also do mail order: (510) 843-7178.>> >Have you got an ISBN for it? I hope I can find this one here in England... :) >Rhane I think the book you refer to is by Carolyn Savoy and Janet Winter, not Janet Arnold. It is a large paperback that has a small distribution. Those of you abroad may have to get in touch with one of the US distributers anyway (Lacis and Raiments both carry it). Erin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 15:10:58 -0700 From: lindab@netwest.com (Linda Barnish) Subject: Re: Victorian Fabrics At 12:01 PM 11/2/95 -0800, Joan Broneske wrote: >What modern fabrics would be suitable for dresses from 1850-1870? and which ones would be least expensive and most expensive? > >I'd like to know this too. Let me know if you get an answer. Right now I'm not going for authenticity so much expect for in look. I'm making caroling outfits and I don't think I want or need "upper-class" costumes. I'm looking more into woolens, batistes, cottons etc. The years you mention always makes me think of the frontier, farmers etc. as that is what my family was doing in those years. They didn't dress fancy. Most pictures I've seen are of bapiste with inlaided lace, white dresses. They are beautiful, but not what I'm looking for right now. Linda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 13:59:06 PST From: "Gail DeCamp" Subject: Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? I have this book. I tried making a corset using the directions in it. I found that: *You really do want to add the additional back support and underarm cutouts. * It needed to be tighter (for me) than the 2" indicated, since the fabric has a tendency to stretch out over time. * Their instructions do not tell you to leave about 1" of gap in the finished corset, in case you change size. (It's common for us to lose 5lbs. during faire season. Unfortunately, I seem to lose the same five every year.) Gail DeCamp decampg@ngc.com PS---does anyone else want to post a pattern review? I think the book you refer to is by Carolyn Savoy and Janet Winter, not Janet Arnold. It is a large paperback that has a small distribution. Those of you abroad may have to get in touch with one of the US distributers anyway (Lacis and Raiments both carry it). Erin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 14:20:47 -0700 From: kfraker@wyoming.com (Kate Fraker) Subject: pre-1840 I would like to find others who work with the fur trade era clothing. I do some but would appreciate more sources. Thanks....e-mail to kfraker@wyoming.com, or kfraker@buffalo.com also appreciated on this subject. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:14:52 +1100 (EST) From: Katrina Hunt Subject: Re: Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? I have made a corset using the pattern in the Savoy/Winter book. I found the best idea was to use it as a draft and enlist the aid of a friend to help: 1. Fit the thing 2. Mark the lines for the boning (every body shape will place bones slightly differently) 3. Re-fit the thing 4. Re-Mark the bones etc etc etc you get the picture. The result is a very, very comfortable corset which I can wear all day and well into the evening. Oh, I'm what you would call a larger lady (DD cup and the bod to match). The Corset holds everything up and gives a good silhouette. Mind you I only use steel bones. Katrina ******************************************************************************* * * * David and Katrina Hunt | thehunts@canberra.dialix.oz.au * * Stephen Aldred & Mathilde Adycote | 24 Edwards St Higgins ACT Australia * Baron & Baroness Politarchopolis | Phone (06) 254 3059 * * * ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 19:18:50 -0800 (PST) From: Rhodry Subject: Re: Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Katrina Hunt wrote: > I have made a corset using the pattern in the Savoy/Winter book. > Okay, so does any one have the ISBN for this book? Thanks - Rhodry rsaylor@pogonip.scs.unr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:31:08 +0000 (GMT) From: Dorothy Stein Subject: Re: Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Rhodry wrote: > On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Katrina Hunt wrote: > > > I have made a corset using the pattern in the Savoy/Winter book. > > > > Okay, so does any one have the ISBN for this book? Thanks - Rhodry > rsaylor@pogonip.scs.unr.edu > I am puzzled that so many people demand ISBN numbers for reference books. Usually, if you know the title, author, publisher and year of publication (or even any two of these) it should be more than enough to find it. If it is in print, a guide called 'Books in Print' should be enough to find it. If not, phone around the libraries or used book shops. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 07:19:53 -0500 (EST) From: betsyp@vnet.net Subject: Re: ISBN > I am puzzled that so many people demand ISBN numbers for reference books. > Usually, if you know the title, author, publisher and year of > publication (or even any two of these) it should be more than enough to > find it. If it is in print, a guide called 'Books in Print' should be > enough to find it. If not, phone around the libraries or used book shops. I see by your address that you are in Great Britain. Many American bookstore clerks are ignorant and uninterested in providing service; when dealing with these, your life is _much_ simplified if you can provide a unique identifier. Otherwise, the clerk is likely to tell you "Oh, there isn't any such book." when what is really happening is that the book is warehoused by a jobber that the bookstore chain doesn't buy from. It is also much easier to inter-library loan a book if you have the ISBN handy. Finally, "Books In Print" is no longer widely available in a paper form; most bookstores stock only the electronic version, which they do not allow customers to use directly. I apologise to the h-costume readers who are or know ecellent bookstore clerks; when I find one of those, I treasure him or her. But Barnes & Noble et al. seem to specialize in hiring them younger and less literate. (I don't support my local independent bookstore because they don't stock the books I read; I want not only an informed clerk but access to books!) Betsy Perry ------------------------------ Date: 03 Nov 95 09:59:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Tate Exhibition There is a lovely catalogue for the Tate Exhibition, with lots of colour photographs. I have a copy (cost #19.95), but unfortunately the details are at home, so I will try to remember to bring the details in on Monday! The book I mentioned yesterday -the Diana Scarisbrick on jewellery, is also related to the exhibition, cost #8.95. Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Nov 95 09:49:57 EST From: ccuccherini@casde.com Subject: Shoe Vender Address Good Morning. I do not know if anyone remembers the Shoe Vender thread back in August. If not I have quoted the message I wrote: ---------- "In response to Edward's posting about shoes, I went to a Civil War Reenactment two weekends ago and ran into a shoemaker who does mid-19th century shoes. The quality and authenticity of his shoes was better than Amazon and much more reasonably priced. I ended up buying a pair. He did not have a card or a flyer with his new address on it, but said that he was taking names and addresses and would send the information. hen he sends the information I will pass it along." ----------- Well, I finally have some information to pass on. I was able to come up with two venders of period shoes. (No, I can't remember which one I got my shoes from.) The addresses are as follows: The Fox and Lamb Sutlery RR #3, Harrowsmith, Ontario, Canada, K0H 1V0 Phone Number: (613) 372-0272 Robert Land 82 Grange Street, Guelph, Ontario, Canada, N1E 2V2 (I have no phone number for Mr. Land) I hope this helps. Respectfully, Carolyn A. Cuccherini Alexandria, Va. USA ccuccherini@casde.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 8:55:17 -0600 (CST) From: P_SHERYL@KCPL.LIB.MO.US Subject: ISBN >> I have made a corset using the pattern in the Savoy/Winter book. >Okay, so does any one have the ISBN for this book? Thanks - Rhodry >rsaylor@pogonip.scs.unr.edu Here it is: _Elizabethan Costuming_ 2nd ed. Janet Winter. paperback, $15.00, Other Times Productions ISBN: 0-9630220-0-8 HTH! Sheryl J. Nance Kansas City MO Public Library p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us ------------------------------ Date: 3 Nov 1995 09:20:02 U From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Re: Tudor Torso--Pattern Re Reply to: RE>>Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? Folks, keep in mind that ISBN numbers are not necessarily the same on both sides of the Atlantic. That is, the same book could be offered for sale in the US and the UK, and have two totally different ISBNs. Carole Newson-Smith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 13:35:07 -0500 From: deirdre@deeny.MV.COM (Deirdre) Subject: Re: Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? Most of the bookstores I've seen (including the one in the small town of about 1500 people I work in) no longer HAVE "Books in Print." They have a computerized edition which first searches on a unique key -- which happens to be the ISBN number. It'll find it much faster than entering all other information. _Deirdre ------------------------------ Date: 03 Nov 95 15:05:15 EST From: Rhane <74404.22@compuserve.com> Subject: Elizabethan Costuming For those who asked: 'Elizabethan Costuming ~ for the years 1550 - 1580' by Janet Winter & Caroline Savoy ISBN: 0-9630220-0-8 Printed by: Other Times Productions 361 - 60th Street Oakland, CA 94618 Good luck! Rhane ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #242 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!