From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #244 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, November 7 1995 Volume 3, Number 244 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: China report and apology Medieval gloves: any info? snoods Re: "Hippie-bethan"??? Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #243 RE: Medieval gloves: any info? Re: Medieval gloves: any info? 15th Century Hats Re: snoods RE: 15th Century Hats Re: Tudor Torso--Pattern Re Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #243 Janet Arnold books Re: Medieval gloves- any in ISBN Numbers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:55:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Dorothy Stein Subject: China report and apology Dear listees, I apologize for not yet producing the survey report as promised. I am working on it now, and hope to have something presentable in a week. I was interrupted by a six-week trip, spent mostly in China. The main purpose of the trip was to investigate working conditions in a textile mill complex near the neolithic site of Banpo (where evidence of weaving dating back thousands of years was found - that's the continuity of Chinese civilization for you). For the purposes of these lists, however, I will mention here, however, I will mention only a few things I observed on the side. On the way there, I visited the Craft and Folk Art Museum in Los Angeles. The museum also has an archive and educational program. Among the features of the latter are a set of exotic textiles and clothing for visitors (including but not limited to children) to dress up in. In Xi'an, I saw an exhibition at the Shaanxi Provincial Museum on the costume, makeup and hairdo of Tang (6-9th century AD) women. It was by far the best mounted and presented exhibition I've seen in China. Tang women were said to have been unusually energetic and active. They rode, hunted and engaged in a variety of other activities. The wore decollete Regency-looking flowing gowns, but also sometimes dressed as men and even Hunnish (tunic and pants) costume (the Huns were then prowling around just to the north). They were also (as evidenced by numerous terra cotta statuettes and murals) unusually fat, with sulky imperious expressions, but remarkably graceful. I interviewed some textile and fashion designers at the Xi'an Academy of Fine Art. They don't seem to have a clue. The textile design instructor, with a view to opening up her students to other cultures, simply has them copy elements from book illustrations and produce what seem like Liberty prints for wallpaper or furnishings. They are taught nothing at all about how to transfer a design to fabric: that is for the factory to figure out. She had nothing but scorn for the students of dress design, who it seemed to me were producing some very interesting costume sketches, some incorporating Tang elements. The fashion designer was concerned about the confusion and loss of direction and dress sense in Chinese women: they seem to think Western women all dress like calendar art. She poured scorn on the past, where everyone dressed in blue or green Mao suits, saying they were 'too uniform', without, apparently, any understanding of any other function this uniformity might have served in a poor country. Current clothing (endlessly displayed in ubiquitous markets and shops) seemed even more uniform (though far more colourful) to me: almost all stretch pants and patterned sweaters worn with hip-length jackets. These, I concluded, were very practical, since this way of dressing alone helped one to cope with the almost invariably filthy squat toilets found in all public and most private places. There was very little in the way of good clothing or even nice fabric for sale: the silks were gaudy and the embroideries ugly. I guess all the good stuff is for export. Yet Chinese women, and particularly the minorities are famous for their weaving and embroidery. (The Miao minority, for example, are very fond of siver ornaments, but, since they would be too heavy and impractical for infant wear, young mothers spends hours embroidering silver ornaments - on their babies' diapers!) A common response to a poll that asked why daughters are desirable was that they could do embroidery. Indeed, my daughter-in-law showed me the first piece she did, at age eleven: a blouse-front, and very pretty it was. We are both fond of darning old sweaters, but, while mine look darned, hers look embellished. (Similarly in cooking: all Chinese women seem to master certain techniques that make me feel like my fingers are webbed when I try them.) They still knit, too, and there was some very interesting yarn for sale, dyed like ikat, so that, if the gauge is adhered to, patterns are produced when it is knitted. I was also interested in some of the environmental aspects, and learned a good deal about ramie production and processing from some of the faculty of the Xi'an Textile Institute. In addition, there are government-run recycling depots, where people can sell their metal scrap and old clothes. There is a fiction that the Chinese never wear second-hand clothing (except what is passed on from family members). The textiles, I was told, are mostly used for inductrial rags and paper manufacture (no one seemed to have heard of insulation). Foreign clothes, however, are unacceptable, as it is firmly believed that all foreigners are diseased, probably with AIDS. (However, I found that in one of the large clothing markets there is a section where old foreign clothing is sold as if new, illegally, in any case. I saw racks of old pleated plaid wool skirts and definitely washed woolen sweaters.) Many underpaid teachers and other urban workers apparently top up their salaries by taking (new or old) clothing into the countryside and reselling it there. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 23:44:00 GMT From: David Brewer Subject: Medieval gloves: any info? I am a member of a medieval re-enactment group with a continually improving standard of authenticity. I am looking into constructing some gloves. I genuinely know nothing about medieval gloves; apart from the obvious four fingers and a thumb concept. I have never seen anything about gloves. Shoes?- yes. Shoes are easy. I've done shoes. Gloves? I am probably going to use leather, rather than cloth (these gloves are to protect my finger from possible impact with fast-moving steel, doesn't sound like much but it works). Leather shoes and bags are turned inside out to hide the stitching, does this sound right? Butt-stitching? Lining? Could anybody with any ideas please reply. Target date/place is late 15th century England. Any references from 100 years either way would be greatly appreciated. Or anything, really. - -- David Brewer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 19:01:36 PST From: ches@tristero.io.com Subject: snoods does anyone have a snood pattern that is crocheted as opposed to knitted? - ------------------------------------- Ciao Ches E-mail: Ches@io.com This message was sent by Chameleon - ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:45:25 -0800 From: bd927@scn.org (Susan Courney) Subject: Re: "Hippie-bethan"??? Well.. Last year for our local Tacky Tourney - I took 3 bags of thrift store ties and made a I-tie-lan Ren. dress. I think it was a bit much-I was in a hurry and duct taped it together. Even worse my parents were visiting me and had to take my picture to show every back home as an example of my fine "sewing" skills. Now why could't they of found my Tudor as interesting. sigh Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:00:52 -0500 From: Susan Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #243 A corset construction page?!? What a wonderful idea! If you do it, I promise that I will not only link my page to it, but I will also send you some of my personal tricks and gimmicks! Also, about Victorian shoes. Are you going to wear them only as costume? If youre not awfully sticky about details and you might also wear them as "everyday" footwear, Sears has some nice loooking but not exactly authentic boots. Might be worth a look, eh? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 10:00:28 PST From: ches@tristero.io.com Subject: RE: Medieval gloves: any info? - ---------------Original Message--------------- I am a member of a medieval re-enactment group with a continually improving standard of authenticity. I am looking into constructing some gloves. David Brewer - ----------End of Original Message---------- They do not have a date attached to them but Amazon Dry goods recently found a box full of glove patterns in one of their forgotten warehouses. On the back of the pattern is a description of what patterns it contains. Leather gloves, Gauntlets, Leather mittens, Fur backed mittens, and cloth mittens or lining. I bought one but have not tried to make them yet. The cost was 9.95 + 3.95 s&h back in February. However, I do recall one of my costume books having a sketched pattern of a glove in it dated from the 14th c. I thought it was the Kohler book but I just looked in my new copy (the old one got "borrowed") but there is no pattern. It may be 20,000 years of Fashion. Most of my books are in storage so I cannot remember which book it is. I took this pattern and enlarged it and made the gloves. Since I did not have instructions on how to attach the pieces together it was a disaster. Next I went to the commercial patterns, Simplicity then had a pattern to make gloves, instructions of cource were also incomplete. I finally was able to find an old McCalls glove pattern with great instructions that I could use to make that first pair and made several pairs that have lasted. A word of warning on the commercial patterns, they are made for stretch fabrics and you will have to order them since they discontinued the patterns last year. - ------------------------------------- Ciao Ches E-mail: Ches@io.com This message was sent by Chameleon - ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:20:01 -0800 (PST) From: Teresa Gallagher Subject: Re: Medieval gloves: any info? I, too, would love some info on gloves. It was quite cold this weekend at an event I was attending and I wished knew more about period hand coverings! I'm more targeting Italy (northern) in the late 15th century but all info would be interesting... Teresa G. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 10:15:19 PST From: julie_adams@corp.Cubic.COM Subject: 15th Century Hats Hats are currently available for sale at the Broadway (which is also Macey's) that are good for 15th century men's hats. These are shaped like a tall round-topped fez, but have a wider bell at the bottom which can be rolled up all around or folded up (to make the round-topped robin-hood hat). They were not cheap ($35), but were wool felt and came in a number of colors, including blue, burgundy, red, green, white and black. - --julie adams ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 1995 09:29:35 U From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Re: snoods Reply to: RE>snoods Here is the snood pattern that I crochet. Before it is gathered up, it is an eight sided shape. I've adjusted the instructions a bit, because I work fairly tight. You may find that you need to chain one more or one less at the turn arounds. If your hair is longer than your shoulder blades, you may want to increase the number of rows in the middle section of the pattern. Also note that the stitch names and hook size are American. Carole Newson-Smith SCA Cordelia Toser ------ Filet Snood Materials: cotton CroSheen (200 yards will make a small snood); 1 steel crochet hook, size #1 or #0; (optional) 24 inches shirring elastic or 40 inches grosgrain ribbon 3/8" wide Begin by chaining 48. 1st row: Do a triple stitch into the 8th stitch from hook, chain 3. *Triple into 4th stitch from last triple, chain 3. Repeat from * to end of the row. After last triple, chain 3 and triple once more into the last stitch of the row below, then chain 8, turn. You will have 10 squares with a loop on each end 2nd to 9th rows: Triple into the third chain stitch before the first triple stitch (in the previous row), chain 3. Triple into first triple, *chain 3, triple into next triple.* Repeat from * to end of row. After last triple, chain 3 and triple once more into the last stitch of the row below, then chain 8, turn. 10th row: Triple into the third chain stitch before the first triple stitch (in the previous row), chain 3. Triple into first triple, *chain 3, triple into next triple.* Repeat from * to end of the row. After last triple, chain 5, turn. 11th to 19th rows: Triple into the top of the second triple stitch (in the previous row), chain 3. *Triple into next triple, chain 3. Repeat from * to end of row. After last triple, chain 5, turn. 20th row: Triple into the top of the second triple stitch (in the previous row), chain 3. *Triple into next triple, chain 3. Repeat from * to end of row. After last triple, chain 3, turn. 21st row: Triple into the top of the second triple stitch (in the last row) from hook, chain 3. *Triple into next triple, chain 3. Repeat from * to next-to-last triple from end of row. Triple, triple, chain 3, turn. 22nd to 30th rows: As 21st row. You will have 10 squares in the 30th row. Do not break off the thread. For the edging: finishing method A: Ch 4, double crochet into 4th stitch. Ch 2, double. Repeat from * until you have gone around the edge, finish off. Make drawstring by making a chain approximately 38 inches long, then sc 1 row along length of chain. Finish off. Thread drawstring into edge. finishing method B: *Ch 6, tr into 4th stitch. Ch 3, triple. Repeat from * until you have gone around the edge, finish off. Thread grosgrain ribbon into edge. finishing method C: Cut elastic to fit your head, plus 1-1/2" overlap. Sew ends together firmly with sewing thread. Hold elastic against the edge of the snood, and single crochet into the edge of the snood, first on one side of the elastic, then on the other, all around the edge, until the elastic is encased. Finish off. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 17:29:02 PST From: julie_adams@corp.Cubic.COM Subject: RE: 15th Century Hats Sorry, Broadway is also Emporium, but I would check out any of the big chains for these. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:13:04 +0000 (GMT) From: "J.F.Scott" Subject: Re: Tudor Torso--Pattern Re On 3 Nov 1995, Carole Newson-Smith wrote: > Reply to: RE>>Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? > Folks, keep in mind that ISBN numbers are not necessarily the same > on both sides of the Atlantic. That is, the same book could be offered > for sale in the US and the UK, and have two totally different ISBNs. > Carole Newson-Smith > ISBN stands for International Standard Book Number so each one should be unique, no matter where in the world a book is published. If you find duplicate ISBNs I suggest you contact the publisher. John Scott John F.Scott Networked Information Services Advisor j.f.scott@bton.ac.uk University of Brighton, England The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. -- Hubert Humphrey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 15:07:25 PST From: marie@caesar.quotron.com Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #243 >>On Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:29:14 -0500 (EST) >>Drea Leed wrote: >> >>Sounds like a winner for a tacky tunic contest. >> >>The only thing I've ever seen that sounds worse was a beautifully cut >>renaissance italian gown... >> >>made out of he-man sheets. >> >>Ugh. >> >>Drea >> >>On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Annikki Weston wrote: >> >>> Forgive me, oh great historical costuming gurus, for I have sinned and >>> created a monstrosity! Faded denim -- direct from an old pair of jeans! >>> -- bodice with florescent green and yellow trim, florescent yellow >>> skirt. Tie-dyed chemise to be coming soon. It's ... frightening. An >>> insane costumer's nightmare, perhaps? Makes for a really >>> silly costume amongst SCA-dian friends, and it was great showing up at a >>> Halloween party in it! >>> >>> "Make love, not armadas!" >>> Nikki Weston >>> weston@tardis.svsu.edu >>> >>> >> You obviously did not see a group wearing perfect Victorian right down to the top hats, all made of camoflage material. Accessorized with dogtags. Marie ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 1995 17:04:15 U From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Janet Arnold books 11/7/95 4:54 PM Janet Arnold books I went to Barnes and Noble last night, and found three different titles (in paperback) on their shelf in the Theatre Arts section. The publisher for all three is MacMillan/Drama Books New York and the ISBNs below are US, but any good bookseller can tell that at a glance. Patterns of Fashion 1 c.1660-1860 $30.00 U.S. ISBN 0-89676-026-X Patterns of Fashion 2 c.1860-1940 $30.00 U.S. ISBN 0-89676-027-8 Patterns of Fashion c.1560-1620 $35.00 U.S. ISBN 0-89676-083-9 All three books have patterns for English gentlewomen. Only the last book has any patterns for men. Carole Newson-Smith ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 1995 17:34:25 U From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Re: Medieval gloves- any in Reply to: RE>>Medieval gloves: any info? Well, I haven't made gloves yet, but a friend has made herself some really beautiful mittens of black wool, and lined them with a dark brown fake fur. She was basing the pattern on some red gloves belonging to Elizabeth I of England. Anyway, the backs of the gloves are embroidered with gold and silver metallic thread and small pearls. I keep hinting that the gloves fit my hand nicely but she keeps ignoring my hints. Carole Newson-Smith SCA Cordelia Toser ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:27:12 +1100 (EST) From: Fiona Thorne Subject: ISBN Numbers At the risk of entering a minefield, I have to agree with both Carole & John, yet add more detail. This is my understanding of the ISBN system (based on computer design/programming exercises which involve library systems). ISBN numbers are international and should be unique. If ther are not unique, the system has got stuffed up (so presumably the publishers of the books need to be notified). This is in agreement with John. Groups of ISBN numbers are allocated to publishers, who then apply them to their books, so if one publisher stuffs up, then it may not be picked up until both books are entered into someone's catalogue! However, the IBSN number is connected to the edition of the book. One title, say "Clothes of British Army" (made up title) which is released in a hardback edition, then revised for a softback edition, will have two different ISBN numbers. I think it is every edition is a new ISBN number, but I wouldn't like to swear to that. So, books that are published as two separate editions, one for the US & one for the UK (probably for copyright or related reasons) will have two ISBN numbers. This is probably what Carole was referring to. I am not a professional working in the book industry or a librarian, so I am happy for someone to correct me. Fiona Thorne - ------------------------------------------------------------- Fiona Thorne Masters Student, University of Technology, Sydney (Australia) fthorne@socs.uts.edu.au or Fiona_E._Thorne@aapda.com.au http://linus.socs.uts.edu.au/~fthorne On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, J.F.Scott wrote: > On 3 Nov 1995, Carole Newson-Smith wrote: > > > Reply to: RE>>Tudor Torso--Pattern Review?? > > Folks, keep in mind that ISBN numbers are not necessarily the same > > on both sides of the Atlantic. That is, the same book could be offered > > for sale in the US and the UK, and have two totally different ISBNs. > > Carole Newson-Smith > > > ISBN stands for International Standard Book Number so each one should be > unique, no matter where in the world a book is published. If you find > duplicate ISBNs I suggest you contact the publisher. > > John Scott ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #244 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!